game-update

[hard axle]

Yama stat balance wise was good

[obsidian venture]

Yama does have that low skill floor but good skill expression in the later stage

Which is fine

[hasty shard]

imagine doing bloodied blows with this

[hard axle]

Maybe lower the defense cap by another 40 so if u do double hammer, scythe is bis?

But fine for emberlight either way

[hasty shard]

[obsidian venture]

They also said that there's some stuff we haven't figured out yet so I wonder what that is

and how relevant would it be to learn

[hasty shard]

that was a statement like day two

i honestly dont think there is missing stuff lol

[ember token]

imagine if red topaz bolts could lower the magic level of NPCs too, and if it did so by more than a single level

[hasty shard]

like i dont think the defense differences were even known then

[obsidian venture]

Could be more glpyh usage idk

[lament peak]

holy water

[obsidian venture]

holy water weapon when...

Ngl... they could have made a cosmetic for the emberlight itself

Saw some design for it and it looked sick

[ionic tartan]

Holy water cannon of doom

[hasty shard]

i mean sapphires are randomly buffed at muspah

[narrow folio]

They aren't buffed per say I think

[true talon]

The biggest issue is it has a mechanic to reduce its magic defense if hes hitting someone that is melee, but increases his defense if hes hitting someone with mage, but the reverse is not true. his defense dont change for melee at all. and p3 just buffs his mage defense. Also if i stand in melee an sit there tanking him, he still has increased magic defense for no reason.

[sacred oracle]

so is the general consensus that oathplate drop rate is too generous and needs to be a lot more rare, or is oathplate just too strong?

[hasty shard]

surely void flares deflect stat drain to yama and you can red topaz bolt them for like -15 mage lvl per bolt

[true talon]

Thats kinda fire.

[hasty shard]

[austere mulch]

Either or

[narrow folio]

Bolts will have to be niche like muspah or they risk powercreeping the rest of range

[obsidian venture]

Like TOO is bis for the most part in general

It's not really the sidegrade they suggested

Plus with delve, it isn't really getting changed

But either way, they need to address rates for melee gear in general

[sacred oracle]

i assumed the next strength upgrade would alter the balance, but treads doesn't affect it?

[hasty shard]

+1 more str and oathplate is bis over torva

:3c

[obsidian venture]

Hot take but I truly believe torva should be like maybe 150 hours and oath should be around that

[chrome lantern]

150 hours of Nex 🤮

[obsidian venture]

Zcb can stay at 200hr+ tbf

[obsidian venture]

Better than like what 400?

or is it 500ish with dupes iirc

[hard axle]

Torva's rarity won't be an issue once they let you break it down into pieces and make new armor

[chrome lantern]

Is that what it is

ok let's do 150

[sacred oracle]

does hours to completion have a direct correlation to cost? because as a main, cost is really my metric, now hours to completion, because mains don't have to complete it

[narrow folio]

Torva being bis shouldnt be contingent on a single breakpoint on a single megaweapon

[hard axle]

It's like how Armadyl and Bandos dupes became relevant for irons once they were able to be used to make the next BIS

[obsidian venture]

It would "de-value" torva as a money maker but it would fit in line with other melee gear

[hard axle]

and relevant for mains because it keeps items from becoming devalued

[sacred oracle]

though cost isn't a great metric because you have stuff like bp being one of the best weapons in the game for a few mil

[obsidian venture]

Zcb can stay a long grind due to bis spec

and that's fair

[hard axle]

break shit down

[hasty shard]

end of the day we didnt need fucking slash armor

[obsidian venture]

Well tbf, it highlights the problem with melee

[chrome lantern]

How else would slahsh survive

slash

[true talon]

This is the way to keep content relevent.

[lament peak]

break down dragon pl8 and full helm for yama

[hard axle]

break down 1 top 25 rank hcim for 1 piece of yama unique

hope this helps

[obsidian venture]

We can reduce oath plate ttc if it meant sacrifcing one hcim at random

[hard axle]

correct!

[hasty shard]

break down irl for yama unique

[hard axle]

kill the hardcores

[true talon]

God no, those two items on an iron is beyond insane lol.

Dragon platebody is absolutely insane to make and dragon kiteshield

[hasty shard]

platebody is lol
but full helm is pretty afk honestly

[true talon]

Cant remember if they made the kiteshield

[narrow folio]

I'd rather nerf the str bonus of oath or buff str of torva so theres an actual gap on low defense

[hasty shard]

kiteshield isss addys i think

[tender harness]

Add new ashes for yama that need to be spread to roll a 1/36000 oath piece

[hard axle]

you'd likely still have the same complaints

where torva too rare

which is why oath should just consume torva for +8 str

(please)

creep the fuck out of melee

melee is ASS compared to ranged/mage

[lament peak]

nex is the final step of every iron gearing diagram for a reason

[hasty shard]

freudian

[narrow folio]

Then same would go for inquisitor and stab armor which isnt exactly healthy for irons to need to farm torva 3 times

[true talon]

1/5k drop from addy dragon which those things fucking blow lol

dragon slice is 80m lool

[narrow folio]

I read on reddit that you dont need carbon copies of armors for each style. Inq was balanced with both accuracy and dmg, slash could go heavy on accuracy, and stab could have more strength

[obsidian venture]

Inq should be buffed more tbh

[narrow folio]

But thats different from torva vs oath

[true talon]

dragonkite is 89m with no practical uses kinda insane lol

[ember token]

thats for the dragon kiteshield

[hard axle]

uhh it depends

[narrow folio]

Inq doesnt need a buff

[ember token]

dragon platebody is rune dragons

[hard axle]

because if you break down torva, the dupes ALL matter

[hasty shard]

i want inq buff but i dont want a new inq model lol

[true talon]

ya the lump from rune dragons is just as bad.

[hard axle]

the biggest problem with torva isn't the time to see 3 uniques

[narrow folio]

The stats are around the same as oath and has the passive bonuses why does it need a buff?

[hard axle]

it's the dupes lmao

dupes outright double the time needed

and sometimes you can end up with 5 platelegs and no body

[hasty shard]

the random stab/slash reductions and paper defenses

[hard axle]

it's like how scythe clamps the damage output to the mean

[true talon]

Sadly its only 183k, because its botted to absolute shit lol.

[hard axle]

oi

[true talon]

Addy dragons very unfun to fight

[hard axle]

I have 35k rds

[true talon]

Yea they are good monster

To afk on with an alt

[hard axle]

they were good back when gp wasn't 5m/hr

everywhere

[hasty shard]

like oathplate just casually has more slash def than justi in comparison 😭

[hard axle]

when zulrah was 3m/hr and vorkath was 3m/hr, rune dragons being 1-1.5m/hr was good while playing on another account

[true talon]

I rember my old main i did 5k rune dragons after i lost all my money staking lol

it was vibe afk

[hard axle]

losing all money staking

you have bigger unresolved problems

[true talon]

But back then your best wep was zammy hasta or rapier if giga rich

so killing them was kinda yea

[lament peak]

tass still does the keep gambling meme but instead of gold it's time spent killing bosses healthier

[hard axle]

he doesn't lose at all in pvm

man is as spooned as i am

[true talon]

yep

[icy relic]

After getting 8/17 food drops from Yama this past session

Please move this shit to secondaries in the future

[red scroll]

rip torva price

[lament peak]

not running this stupid boss again until the weekend i hope jagex doesn't make it even worse cause damn

[ember token]

almost enough shards for a 2nd piece

[jovial sentinel]

Looks like a pretty lucky log

[last onyx]

Hi all I would like to inquire if there is any daily limit or restriction on selling bonds on the Grand Exchange in Old School RuneScape. Is it allowed to sell bonds multiple times within a single day? I want to make sure that this does not violate any game rules or result in warnings or penalties.

Thank you very much for your assistance and response!

[ember token]

#game-questions

but yes you can sell as many bonds as you want

[last onyx]

Thanks

[fair dove]

At least u got yami 🤗

[thick beacon]

phrase the question this way do u really want inq for any of ur grinds on iron?

fact thats its not good in any raids already says alot imo

[alpine sluice]

The boss is terrifyingly bad

[oblique mesa]

https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=13/sailing-poll-1-area-expansion-quests--hybrid-training-method?oldschool=1

[alpine sluice]

Will we get the redwood short bow?

[frail bough]

befriending tortugans sounds a lot like favor :/

looks like its through questing - all good 😅

[bronze kernel]

Still nothing on adding magic powered engines to boats

[analog crow]

New sailing based spellbook will come, trust

[fair ice]

Up2 making a whole new server for sailing updates

[tender harness]

oh boy a sailing poll that people are going to spite vote because its sailing instead of shamanism or what ever bullshit they come up with

[minor whale]

Yeah no idea how that's gonna get polled
People are 100% going to spite vote the shit out of it and nothing ever proposed is gonna get added lmao

[neon gate]

263627273526 lesser demons

[neon gate]

Voting no to all ngl. Don't want to have to grind afk seagulls for the sailing contract map for the boat recolor

[tender harness]

back to lesser demons with you. only 6326749594 to go

[fair ice]

The unique islands thing is really cool I think

small islands that is

[frail bough]

excited about new fish types

[minor whale]

Wow I'm shocked!

[true talon]

Maybe they can bring this feedback back that hey this poe esq system will not work in this game. we cant gate keep our dedicated end game player base out of actually playing the game.

we should get rid of the orbs and contracts

[tight forum]

”I've just asked the team and YES we will get more bank space <3”

More bank space confirmed for the sailing update 🙌

[true talon]

Convert remaining orbs into gp at current GE value and remove them out the fucking game lol

Looks like they can convert items into other items based on this fish offcut thing

Also they converted climbing boots into rock climbing boots long time ago which changed a 12gp item to 75k item lol

[kind sail]

still no word on any expected xp rates, or what happens with max cape variants after sailing releases

kind of important no?

[restive siren]

id expect exp rates to be the last thing that gets tuned

[kind sail]

they don't have any estimates, anything they can tell us?

[restive siren]

and sailing cape is in the 3rd poll so id assume we hear about max cape then too

[kind sail]

I feel like if you're designing a new skill, progression and xp rates are one of the foundations

[restive siren]

why would they. in the end just everyone gets mad if they change it

[kind sail]

doesn't mean they can keep quiet forever just because they're scared lol

its a new skill, its been incredibly controversial the entire time

its not going to stop being controversial

[frail bough]

they did sort of mention it being around 100k hour top end

[restive siren]

there is no incentive for them to tell us anything rn if the content isnt even done yet. how do you balance exp rates if you dont even know how exactly every training method plays out, how expensive it is, how many actions it takes etc

[frail bough]

but obviously thats not locked in

[kind sail]

surely after two years of development they would have an idea

[restive siren]

ofc they do

[kind sail]

and probably millions of dollars spent

surely

[minor whale]

The JMod that said they said she was mistaken

[restive siren]

but why would they tell us

there is no point

[finite citrus]

At the end of the day people only care about xp rates - not what activity they're doing to do so. AFK or not afk, and xp rates are all that will matter

[kind sail]

I mean also if its fun

[finite citrus]

what skill is fun currently?

[kind sail]

plenty lol

[finite citrus]

I dont think there's a single skill that when you level up from 97-98 and see that 1m+ xp til level - that you don't just groan

[kind sail]

slayer rocks, I enjoy rcing, love hunter post varla, hallowed is A tier content

[finite citrus]

enjoy 40k/hr....

[kind sail]

wdym?

[finite citrus]

rcing

[kind sail]

40k an hour?

lmao

[restive siren]

i dont think there is a single game where you need to grind something for dozens of hours that makes that thing fun. everything you do that much just gets boring

[finite citrus]

Agreed. and if sailing comes in at agility/rc/mining rates - I will never touch it

[restive siren]

and its also not really the point, the reward is the dopamine of number go up/gameplay implications

i mean whatever works for you

but we all know there will be an insane amount of content locked behind it

[kind sail]

you can say all of those nice things captain

[restive siren]

if you dont want to participate, sure

[kind sail]

but if it really does cap out at 80k-100k xp an hour, it will be the least touched skill

[finite citrus]

^

[kind sail]

which at that point, why even spend time on it

like truly

[restive siren]

did i say at any point that i want them to make it slow?

i am saying they have no reason to tell us anything rn

[finite citrus]

I personally just wish they would repoll it as a major activity or minigame..

[kind sail]

i mean

captain

you do realize that they can only make content with our money correct

and that they do tell us things on a literal weekly basis

so why do you have this objectively weird stance that "they dont have to tell us anything"

[restive siren]

they tell us things they either feel like they need our input on or things that they decided on doing

[true talon]

Really now....... i can recall something recently that this happened.
Cough "contracts" Cough

[restive siren]

sailing exp rates apparently dont yet fall into one of those categories

[kind sail]

you don't think activities with related xp isnt one of them?

[kind sail]

well I mean 💀 you're not wrong

[restive siren]

as i said, exp rates will be literally the last step in development

[kind sail]

you didnt even need to say it lmao

[true talon]

Lol

[restive siren]

as you can see in the poll timeline there is a boatload of things to be ironed out first

[true talon]

Jagex really messed up not making shards untradeable. that shit is printing plates/legs at record pace.

[restive siren]

if they literally made no comment on exp until the day sailing released i would find that weird yes. at this point of development i dont find that strange at all

[true talon]

and no1 will make the helms, because

[restive siren]

you dont commit to concrete numbers unless you have a very good reason to do so

[kind sail]

no one asked them to commit

we just want estimated ranges

so we know what to expect

[finite citrus]

Order of operations, yes coding the xp per actions or whatever is literally the last step. But the expected xp rates can be predetermined.

[restive siren]

we both know that the entire community would see that as a commitment

[kind sail]

I dont think thats outrageous in the slightest two years in development

[true talon]

Who cares about XP rates. hopefully its 1m an hour so we can be done in 14 hours and go on about our day.

[restive siren]

if they say 120-140k and it ends up being anything else you know how the playerbase is like

[kind sail]

they raised your membership prices for this keep in mind

its a fair question to ask

[finite citrus]

if this is the case, id be all for sailing

[true talon]

Anytime they do a piece of an item either in fragments or parts, they need to make it untradeable.

They did tradeable with voidwaker an its 2.3m for a blade right now.
They did untradeable for SRA and its sustained 400m+ because so few enter the game.
They did tradeable with oathplate and its printing armor pieces (the useful ones only) into the game.
Seems the untradeable piece serving as BLP needs to the standard if you go forward with this.

[hard axle]

correct

You shouldn’t be allowed to cash a 1/1000 of the rate. It rewards people who actually play the game long term and keeps grinds valuable for players

[vivid ruin]

Its so much easier to stand around and wait for the gear to hit the ge than it is to grind the 1 piece that is completely untradeable

Esp if people are rwt bonds for gp

[tacit pendant]

I mean voidwaker pieces are also much lower reqs, drop rate, doable with a team AND tradeable.

They can account for pieces being tradeable, obviously they cant account for everything and they get stuff wrong. But components being tradeable can be accounted for, just make them more rare, if the intent is a high price

Torva is a tradeable component and held a price until 2 weeks ago

[fickle hazel]

I agree with oathplate shards being untradable this is basically an anti dry mechanic for ironmen.

But at the same time there will still be armour created with shards by players that are grinding yama enough to obtain 450

[tacit pendant]

The shards were about the mining activity making money. Ironmen getting dupe protection is an added bonus

[tender harness]

oh no heaven forbid people who spent time mining made money

[fickle hazel]

The infernal shale is quick as hell to mine and will devalue in price over time. It takes 1 hour 30 mins to mine what you need for a piece of oathplate

[tacit pendant]

Im not saying they did the shale right btw

But the conversation about making them untradeable, it's not going to happen, and if price is a concern there are obvious things they can do instead.

[fickle hazel]

I personally find it dumb that you can make bis slash armour tbh

[tacit pendant]

Hard disagree, not using the other skills in the game for end game stuff is stupid.

[vernal valve]

yeah more skilling integration is good, actually. shale was just kinda poorly thought out.

[tacit pendant]

I would rather remove standalone drops, and the armor is only craftable from shards.

[fickle hazel]

There was definitely better ways around it than just buy off ge and make

[tacit pendant]

Buy off ge and make is mmo life

[hard axle]

Voidwaker pieces should’ve been untradeable and it would’ve fixed the whole singles issue of bots suiciding it

[tacit pendant]

You can kill people to snipe their drop. Kinda one of the points....

[vernal valve]

it's actually crazy how if vw pieces were untradeable that weapon would be like 3x its current price lmao

[gaunt kestrel]

armor coming from players grinding yama enough to 450 is not nearly a bad of a problem as being able to realize dry protection immedaitely

[hard axle]

And the price would be fitting lol

voidwaker is crazy powerful

[vernal valve]

and yeah ofc, that's why the pieces "Had" to be tradeable. wildy bosses are a bit of a mess with that idea in mind anyway. 🤷‍♂️

[hard axle]

You can modify it so it’s still worth X amount when untradeable

Pretty sure Araxyte Fang is like that

And not vanish in 30+

[ionic tartan]

I thought Araxyte Fang is just a 120k high alch item, the 10m drop notif is "cosmetic".

[vernal valve]

i mean it's a bit doomed either way, right? if the VW pieces are valuable in any capacity (which they should be), you can just keep it out of your looting bag and even in the very unlikely circumstance you happened to get PK'd exactly as it drops...you just keep it over your +1. Which is probably worth way less.

like Vet'ion/Calv are already egregious in how hard you can kill them in the raggiest of rags

[analog crow]

Oathplate should drop broken and you need to repair it with shale (87 smithing) 😤

[tacit pendant]

Vw is also crashing because its genuinely losing relevance to zcb and bclaws

[gaunt kestrel]

i wonder if we'll ever adjust bclaws

[tough nacelle]

VW being tied to a wildy boss was a mistake

[gaunt kestrel]

the dragon claws "downgrade"

[hard axle]

Burning dragon claws please

33% spec

It’s time

[tough nacelle]

🙂

[vernal valve]

extremely doubtful tbh

[tough nacelle]

Power creep every other spec weapon outta here

[vernal valve]

if anything i expect they might make burn less turbo-jank at some point

which would buff burning claws

[hard axle]

Only cuz bitches kept bitching about dragon claws being too rare and needing an accessible alternatives

[gaunt kestrel]

yea i dont think so as well, but i can hope

[hard axle]

I can cope

[gaunt kestrel]

cope*

[hard axle]

[gaunt kestrel]

[tough nacelle]

Just deiron like me and then dragon claws aren't too rare 😂😂😂

[hard axle]

Burning sanguine dragon claws

[gaunt kestrel]

surely burning claws to 40spec

[hard axle]

[gaunt kestrel]

[tacit pendant]

I literally lost money betting jagex would nerf on week 2 to 35 spec

[tough nacelle]

Burning claws having multiple styles is wild too

[vernal valve]

VW was going to be 60% spec, then they polled if it should cost 50% instead 4fun and it passed 😭

[tough nacelle]

Every other spec is like one style exclusive which limits it's viability

Meanwhile burning somehow changes what it rolls against

[gaunt kestrel]

yea honestly if they just told me they wanted to devalue other items

i could stomach it

but as it is i assume they're well-intentioned but then the decisions around gear progression are ????

[tacit pendant]

I think devaluing torva was genuinely intended with oathplate.

[hard axle]

I think devaluing shit when you don’t have to is short sighted

strictly from a longevity and game balance perspective

Torva ass to grind? Make it easier to grind (Torva bars or break down into materials so the grind is cut in half for irons and remain the same for mains).

[analog crow]

Maybe good that fewer people feel trapped at nex

[gaunt kestrel]

it would be a better choice just integrity change nex drops

[tacit pendant]

Thats fair. Theres some more nuance with torva, being 1 bil for a set that gives 1.5 max hits. And changing nex at this point upsets other people. Jagex really trys hard to avoid changing things cuz "others suffered"

[analog crow]

which is a bad argument but if that's their stance then that's what they gotta do

[tacit pendant]

Yeah

[hard axle]

The only people “trapped” at nex are folks that maybe shouldn’t be playing a game mode that traps them at content

it’s like the endless complaints about CG to the point that the iron Reddit literally had to ban CG complaints

[gaunt kestrel]

iunno, if that's their stance i think it would be crippling for the long term health of the game

[hard axle]

If I’m trapped at 9x at a boss while pet hunting and I ask for it to be easier not because of balance reason, shoot me cuz I’m delirious

[analog crow]

Nex is still required for zcb so it's not like people won't do nex anymore

[gaunt kestrel]

we'll simply make new content that makes old cringer content irrelevant

[gaunt kestrel]

right, i think people are just frustrated with torva being reduced to scy breakpoint armor

[tacit pendant]

I really dont think torva prices specifically effect long term health much. If it was the stance on tbow or scythe or whatever sure

We just need stab boss

[hard axle]

Less people would do it and you need a team, which is the self fulfilling hole

[gaunt kestrel]

my thing is their acknowledgement of torva's inaccessibility + oathplate's accessibiltiy and then not really doing anything

i mean i can cope 1 more day for whatever will come out tomorrow

but i figure thats just contract tuning

[hard axle]

Heck, if they nerfed nex’s damage or hp as a means to cope, or buff Torva strength bonus, or let you fuse Torva and oath, fuck it

Just do something about it

[gaunt kestrel]

moving forward i really hope we have a more open channel to communicate w the devs

yama has been fun but so much of it has been a flop

[hard axle]

Oh and if u do the efficient methods, you’re ill prepared for contracts

I’m back doing solos to practice enrage cuz the X waves aren’t consistent

for contracts

[tacit pendant]

Honestly just contracts. We didnt get the post week one crash on oathplate like everyone was worried about. Decline on price seems like itll be steady like anything else until bots

[hard axle]

Contracts being balanced for mage style was kinda eh for me

[gaunt kestrel]

for now - i still think it's better to preemptively address the issue with shards being tradeable

[analog crow]

I will always support reworking old content to make it better

[gaunt kestrel]

i mean, personally that's my take anyways - prices could very well stabilize and we'll see it sitting around here for a while

i still think long term wise shards to untradable is the play

[tacit pendant]

Oathplate set price graph looks identical to rancour

[analog crow]

I think their policy is once something has been traded it stays tradable

[gaunt kestrel]

yea honestly im for breaking arbitrary rules if it means the game is bettered

[tacit pendant]

Its part of the mining activity it will never become untradeable. Also this ^

[gaunt kestrel]

^i feel like if the mining activity is such a barrier to smth like this, we should just forsake the mining activity

but obviously the devs view things more completely than i do

[gaunt kestrel]

the mining activity would still be profitable because people going to 450 would still need shale to craft their pieces, it's just the demand would be stifled

but 🤷‍♂️

i'm just hoping get some communication about their intentions and their reflections after the fact

[analog crow]

It's probably too early to see where the price will land anyway

[tacit pendant]

It is, of course, but so far it hasnt insta crashed like people thought

[analog crow]

I haven't watched it closely lately but my impresssion is the variance is quite high still

[gaunt kestrel]

yea, it's honestly less about the price for me

and more about the relationship between oathplate, inq and torva

the former being too easily accessible and the latter being the opposite

ideally i'd like their accessibility* clamped to be more inline w one another

idt 80h to complete bis slash armor should devalue 200h to complete former-bis

[analog crow]

A reddit post compared the unique rates at a few places yesterday or something
nex and pnm stood out as particularly ridiculous grinds

[gaunt kestrel]

(not that 200h former-bis is also a reasonable time - it should be adjusted accordingly)

[analog crow]

like, 20+ hours per unique

[tacit pendant]

Yeah cox, pnm, and nex are all in the same boat

I think the strat rn is ignore them, and dont repeat it. 🤷

[gaunt kestrel]

pnm is like 1/113 which is like 15hours @7.5kph to go on rate

[gaunt kestrel]

honestly i'd prefer them to be addressed rather than ignored

obviously dont repeat poor systems you acknowledge are poor

chambers drop chance is not actually too ridic - 1/27 in a solo, which is only 9h to rate

but the table is just saturated

[tacit pendant]

7.5 kph is def max main ttk

Fucking pray scrolls

[gaunt kestrel]

and 2/3 of the items you get is 🧻

[analog crow]

that drop rate should be reduced if you already logged them. They have the technology to do this

[tacit pendant]

Or remove them from cms

[hard axle]

It would be more profitable actually since it involves human hours to convert the shards

[tacit pendant]

Sailing stuff looks cool tho, soft hype setting for menaphos

[gaunt kestrel]

i think nm drops could be retuned again

[hard axle]

30% more after sotf yeah

Also that pet hour is insane relative to the average boss pet

200 hours

[analog crow]

And please, delete the slepey tablet. Let sotf unlock the tele

[gaunt kestrel]

as a pnm enjoyer i could go down happily to like 1/75-90 as somewhere i think would be not bad

[hard axle]

only ones that are more are Olmlet, Corp, and BA iirc

[gaunt kestrel]

no data to back that up other than vibes though

[tacit pendant]

Radical idea. Make pnm teams

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

Yes

[tacit pendant]

Would solve alot of the pain points

[gaunt kestrel]

or could just adjust reg nm

alas we might be coping too hard

[analog crow]

indeed we are coping hard

but... summer sweep up is coming...

[gaunt kestrel]

I BEG

[analog crow]

I'm gonna keep coping a little longer

[hard axle]

could we get that 30% buff from a year ago to pet too

[tacit pendant]

Corp loot change please

[gaunt kestrel]

honestly 1/1400 for pet is wild

[tacit pendant]

Idc if he has to 2t jad us the whole fight to be balanced, just let me pot with the randoms in a fair way

[gaunt kestrel]

just like 1/2500 for yami LOL

[hard axle]

Yami solo is around 220-250 hours

btw

[gaunt kestrel]

200+ hours to go on rate

[tacit pendant]

Ima get that demon man

[hard axle]

Yep 200 ehb of 7 kph

it and BA are my last big grinds

[gaunt kestrel]

thankfully i spooned both nm and yami

[hard axle]

yami spooned, praying on nm

[gaunt kestrel]

[hard axle]

BA at least has a lot money to be made

Potentially

[minor whale]

Pet hunters gonna bring in like 12 pieces of Oath each

[gaunt kestrel]

dont forget the shards!

all the oath you could make

[minor whale]

Yeah 2500 kills that's like another 3 pieces

[gaunt kestrel]

should be like 4ish?

like 1/16ish from boss and you get 12, so about 0.75/kc

not normalzied for lockbox rates and all that though

[gaunt kestrel]

but yea an additional 1/3 of armor pieces coming into the game through crafting just doesnt sit well w me personally - if it's one guy crafting at 450 it's fine (cause it would take them a long time to get to 450 by himself), but like 30 pairs of duos doing 10kc together and voila there's an oathplate piece in the game

[frail bough]

what's oathplates effective drop rate if you include being able to craft it via shards?

[tacit pendant]

I mean, nornal rng also does thus

[frail bough]

comes out to be like 1/400 for specific instead of 1/600 for specific or is there something im forgetting

like, napkin math

[gaunt kestrel]

napkin math would be like 1/450 specific

cause at 600kc you'd get 450shards on rate, so you'd just get a free piece basically

so 4/3*1/600

[frail bough]

hmm idk, rate wise i feel like thats okay
i guess vibe wise it feels weird

[hard axle]

I need more money to fund clan events

[hard axle]

Rate wise it’s fine

The issue is that shards being tradeable fucks it

Because only 1/3 irons will make the helm

and mains will always push to legs/body

whichever is higher

Day 1, we had oathplate sold within 30 minutes tops, with skilling included

[true talon]

Not thats at a detriment of what the system stands for.
If its to rare its not really BLP now is it. if its to common then you can finish oathplate by crafting before you even get a roll on the table itself (currently its over 800+ duos to craft oathplate) normies will be using these shards to produce plates or legs whichever is most expensive (KEKW for the helm) irons will be using them to make piece they are missing (prob not helm)

[hard axle]

If it’s meant to be BLP, then it shouldn’t matter if it’s untradeable

which is why I get confused why some irons are defending it being tradeable

Especially if untradeable justifies making it 350 or less shards instead of 450

[true talon]

Its a double edge BLP, its setup to be BLP for everyone. tradeable means players who havnt seen a drop can still profit off the boss (this comes at the detriment of the most expensive piece) Irons can now leave the boss with 2 drops and craft the final one if they are still there after hitting enough shards.

[tough nacelle]

I think untradeable and less shards would be ideal

[hard axle]

it’s the same issue as voidwaker versus soulreaper and why one is drastically more than the other (and more bot resistant)

[tough nacelle]

I think dry protection for not getting ANY unique isn't needed

[hard axle]

Your mother, but yes

[true talon]

It being tradeable means the profit normies make from the boss will significantly lower, esp for plate/legs which are considered more valueable

[tough nacelle]

The reality is you will not go 30x the rate

[hard axle]

it’s the same reason why I did support Torva bars replacing Torva or letting you break Torva down into bars to upgrade a new gear

[tough nacelle]

1/200 for any unique is fine

[hard axle]

It helps with the economy, helps irons by reducing their Torva grind in HALF

it helps everyone

[tough nacelle]

Dry protection should stop you from going 10x the rate

[true talon]

My iron friend just got his 2nd horn at 400 and lol that thing is useless as fuck on irons.

[tough nacelle]

With nothing

[hard axle]

Like, notice how crystal armor seeds

Aren’t something u typically go try on

[tough nacelle]

Crystal armour seeds are peak

[hard axle]

https://tenor.com/view/cheese-cat-gif-10509136336940662808

But yes

[true talon]

Also they drastically need to do something about shards to make helm/legs/plate. because if all 3 are 450 then the most profitable piece is gonna be the one crafted.

[tough nacelle]

I think they could just drop ore you craft

That would encourage skilling

Gold sink for those without the skill level

And stabilize the price for all parts

When you factor in dupes for ancestreal its like tbow rate

Or rarer

[hard axle]

Idk how they’re going to balance it but helm being the least worth it on maxed gear is

[tough nacelle]

Delete contracts, add gold sink to craft the ore into armour

Yama will let you turn it into gear for a fee

Since he's a greedy demon and whatnot

Death fee and contracts are doo doo for wealth transfer

Wealth transfer should be resources from lower level players to feed high level players

Like fish and potions

Delete gold from the rich players by tying it to a some sort of drop to turn it into a sellable item

[gaunt kestrel]

yea its just the crafted pieces will be majority body/legs, as its all equal shard req to craft so no one (except irons) will craft helms, which inflates the volume of those items respectively

iunno i feel like we've already pointed out most of the problems - it's up to jagex if they care enough/believe it to be a problem enough to address them

[true talon]

Odds of getting all 3 pieces of ancestral without a dupe is basically rarer than hitting all 3 megas

You have 5 items on the ancestral table

[true talon]

Wealth transfer doesnt really exist tbh, esp not in the form they want it.
Realistically orbs kind of fit that narrative, but once a person has blood torva, they arent going to persue or purcahse orbs, more orbs woulda been removed if they were 1 time unlock than 1 time use, because more players would engage with the content, do you want 1000 orbs removed by 5 people or 100k orbs removed by 100k players.

[hard axle]

That’s why orbs should’ve boosted drops overall

[true talon]

They coulda added a gold cost to entering the boss if they truely wanted to gold sink. orbs dont gold sink they transfer gold from HLC to bots back to gold sites who sell gold to players who then use the gold to buy HLC services and boosting. this is just the reality of systems like this. and if you think otherwise then why is majority of HLC income from selling services.

[hard axle]

3x drop rate on 4x hp is worse than regular bosses

[true talon]

13b spent on orbs by saxer (service seller)

[hard axle]

Started out strong, only to end in

if you want wealth transfer, it’s like what Stella said

[hard axle]

Like this

[true talon]

Yep

Bastons, purple sweets

things people use in unconentional ways

[hard axle]

Orbs would be fine if it only gave a drop rate boost

and you left awakeneds open generically

[true talon]

Yama contracts are even worst. your trying to funnel gold from people killing demons in an very unfun way.

[hard axle]

It needs to be like CG where its 2x hp for 5x loot. If it takes four times as long as normal kc, then gives 10x loot.

Not factoring in difficulty, just raw kill times

This way orbs will always have value for cloggers, pet hunters, etc.

[rain fulcrum]

I don't see why awakened bosses need to give increased loot

[hard axle]

Also, Yama not having a separate kc for contracts is a fucking travesty

[rain fulcrum]

Just to maintain orb price?

[hard axle]

Yep, but that’s only if we keep orbs

[rain fulcrum]

Orbs still have respectable price tho

Add in increased drops and ur more likely to just price ppl out of blorva

Kinda a difficult tradeoff

[gaunt kestrel]

honestly idt its all that "respectable"

yea individually they're like 800k each

but thats like 250k/hr at at vard

upholding a system that is poor for everyone

its just not worth it imo

[true talon]

orbs add about 15k extra per kill

[hard axle]

You’re not wrong

[true talon]

they can be gotten rid of with no impact to dt2

[hard axle]

But maybe Blorva could just be excluded from orbs

Cuz I already mentioned above that awakeneds should be free to access

[gaunt kestrel]

depends on what the intention is for orbs

[hard axle]

and that ribs would only be a drop rate increase

^

[gaunt kestrel]

wealth transfer and it fails

[true talon]

14 orbs in 832 leviathan

[gaunt kestrel]

gp sink and you could easily just add an alternative like an entry fee

[true talon]

11.8m total

[rain fulcrum]

Id rather they just stop releasing this kind of content

[gaunt kestrel]

of course

[rain fulcrum]

Cuz everyone is gonna bitch about the implementation

Whatever they do

[true talon]

if no orbs i woulda lost 11.8m in 832 kills i dunno what ehb for levi is but its prob like 30?

[rain fulcrum]

Remove orbs next it'll be whining about 500k death fee

[true talon]

this is a normal consequence of failure. literally have no problems with this as the barrier. the key per attempt is whats the issue.

[gaunt kestrel]

it'll be less than 10% rounded out when you include the price of the completed venator

[ionic tartan]

^ death fee is fine, some people pay 500k colo deaths and there's no complaints.

[gaunt kestrel]

so orbs are really a drop in the bucket

[true talon]

Because its bad, its bad, very bad, very hated, i dont think a single player across all spectrums say awakener orbs are good

[rain fulcrum]

I think they're fine

[gaunt kestrel]

death fees are also easily "cheated" through coffer anways

[rain fulcrum]

Contacts r shit tho

Orbs r whatever

[gaunt kestrel]

its just an annoyance that gates content arbitrarily

[true talon]

Contracts are just orbs but worst, infact id say contracts are better now after the dossier changes.

[gaunt kestrel]

contracts are orbs if you wanted to make them better but actually made them worse

[true talon]

If dt2 bosses had a 1/12 chance to drop 3 awakener orbs it be fairly reasonable ammount.

[rain fulcrum]

Yeah just delete awakened dt2 imo

Gz no more orbs

[gaunt kestrel]

and instead of havign 1 currency for 4 bosses you now have 5 currency for 1 boss

[true talon]

My friend who was 3/4 blorva on his iron spent an entire month getting orbs to finish levi, 1 orb at a time lol.

[gaunt kestrel]

only if they allow us to keep grandfathered blorva

[true talon]

This game i about the journey and overcoming the challenges along the way, there are no barriers or entry keys setup anywhere in the game. its a bad system. its not done well in any game even in POE.

Its a psychological roadblock that prevents many people from even attempting (just like inferno) if inferno had a entry key were you need to go defeat jad an it was a 1/50 drop. very few if anyone would even have an infernal cape. because the attempts to even learn what the mechanics are would take so long. now this does add a layer of prestige to anyone who would have gotten one but then further devalued as information becomes available.

[rain fulcrum]

Plenty of ppl have blorva despite orbs tho

Oh no not your 15b bank

[icy relic]

It's fair game for irons, practice on a main or whatever

I have like 50+ orbs from my SRA grind

[gaunt kestrel]

its also just a cosmetic

[icy relic]

one-and-done cosmetic

[gaunt kestrel]

idk when we started the paradigm shift that everything should be reasonably completable on an iron

[icy relic]

blorva is reasonably completable

awakeners orbs have no other purpose

[gaunt kestrel]

i just meant generally speaking

[ionic tartan]

More ironman-catered updates -> more people playing ironman.

[vernal valve]

probably when ironmen became a significant portion of the playerbase

the reality is not balancing around ironmen to some extent would be a pretty dumb move on Jagex's side. the game mode is just too popular to ignore.

that's why regular ironmen are pretty obviously considered in basically every update while massively UIM impactful stuff sneaks into the game and basically nobody cares

IM is a massive chunk of active players, UIM isn't

[gaunt kestrel]

im not against iron-catered updates, mind you - i just think that the balancing of the game and progression (gear or otherwise) has undergone a huge change in design philosophy over the past few years that is a little concerning for the long-term health of the game

[frail bough]

i guess iron gamemode amplifies it but im not entirely sure why you wouldn't just make something reasonably completable anyway - iron or not

[gaunt kestrel]

stuff like overtuned gear from moons, burning claws, etc etc etc are all just symptoms of the problem

[vernal valve]

I mean, I agree, balancing between Ironman and Mainscape (and clogging, to an extent) is an absolute nightmare, and I don't envy the desginers. But from a Jagex perspective, not considering Irons in their update would be pretty dumb, and I think they're right.

[ionic tartan]

I guess another way to put it is that a lot of items have significantly easier/cheaper/faster alternatives that are very very close to the harder version.

[vernal valve]

I also don't really agree these are because of ironmen tbh.

[ionic tartan]

Like oathplate should be much harder to get for how close it is to torva.

[gaunt kestrel]

definitely not only because of ironmen

but i think ironmen benefit from their inclusion more than mains do by nature of mains being able to use the GE

[vernal valve]

The surge of midgame content would have happened whether or not ironmen existed or not imo. And the balance issues in new gear is...well, I dunno if there is any single cause

[ionic tartan]

I guess it's not exactly ironman-only but an ezscape of alternative content for gear.

[past wren]

the problem is that gear creep is inevitable, and the only way to make the game challenging is to lock it behind arbitrary self inflicted restrictions like IM/HCIM/GIM. The game has been out so long that every single tick is min/maxxed to its code base so the only way to keep players involved is to make it artifically more tasking to collect items

[ionic tartan]

But I suspect ironman influenced that creep-in of ezscape.

[gaunt kestrel]

yea ezscape is probably the more accurate word

[past wren]

Ezscape is a consequence of the game being around for 20 years and being "Solved"

[vernal valve]

Ehhhh. I don't disagree, I just don't think any of that really has much to do with ironmen specifically. Put it simply, if ironmen didn't exist, I think basically all the content you mentioned likely still would have existed. I agree that your assessment of ironmen influencing design philosophy is true, but I don't think any of your examples are really representative of that.

[past wren]

you cant pull in new players if everything is figured out and theres no mystery

[past wren]

IM modes serve as a difficulty modifier like NG+ etc

[gaunt kestrel]

yea that's fair - my examples were pretty poor, those are more ezscape examples as Xosmo pointed out

[vernal valve]

also, getting back to this, because before ironmen/clogs there was no reason for this to be the case. It just massively restricts drop design.

Instead of mostly designing around hours/unique drop, you're designing around hours/completion, which drastically limits how you design drop tables.

[gaunt kestrel]

i guess more fitting examples would be stuff like warped sceptre, zombie axe, etc (mainly to skip slayer)

i'd chuck twinflame staff in there too cause honestly we dont need another zulrah stick but

or like hueycoatl hides as a blessed dhide alternative post black dhide nerf

[vernal valve]

warped sceptre is basically the definition of an ironman item, yeah

[gaunt kestrel]

though who the heck would farm out huecoatl hides 😭

[vernal valve]

staff design for mains is ofc in kind of a weird space though because of trident being literally alch price lmao

[gaunt kestrel]

yea its a can of worms haha

[vernal valve]

it's hilarious that huey rates are buffed from release too

absurd how ridiculous it was originally

all for an extremely marginal upgrade to items you get passively from doing clues 😭

[gaunt kestrel]

theres definitely the distinction between ezscape gear and ironman gear

but i think theres also a lot of carryover for the ezscape stuff

replacements/easy to access alternatives for stuff that already exists

[vernal valve]

IMO I think a lot of this is just knock on effects from the fact they struggle with reward space/balance, frankly

[true talon]

what? this has nothing to do with the reward of blorva, and more to do with the gate keep of the encounter itself.

[gaunt kestrel]

like i said im not against giving alternatives, especially when its basic magic trident from 87 slayer or whatever kraken is idr

[gaunt kestrel]

yea i'm with you on this

[vernal valve]

I get the strong impression that individual item/content balancing is done by whatever team is working on the individual content, with maybe a bit of broader feedback from the team

I think they need some central team/vision for how they want progression, reward space and balance to be handled

It really feels like they just randomly turn progression upside down without really intending to.

[true talon]

None of this was even ironman catering. it was filling in gaps between gear, the biggest issue is the gear at the high end is not actually impactful enough as the mid game stuff. as they add more fill in gear to progression the end game stuff falls on its face due to the little power spike it offers, i checked billybob ironman with tent whip d boots, defender cheese cape and blood moon vs the same setup in oathplate they gain a total of 8% dps on p2/p3 verzik an thats if your 123 combat.

[vernal valve]

I mean yeah, this is basically the issue. A lot of their balance decisions are pretty short sighted.

Torva being released? It can only be sightly better than Bandos, because we don't want too much power creep.

...Oops, now we're locked in to the BIS endgame melee set for the next decade being super marginal over bandos. What space do we have for more melee gear now?

Ancestral is the most flagrant example of this.

[minor whale]

Huey was absolutely an iron thing to give irons a "quick" "easy" mid game upgrade to grind for without needing to do slayer and raids and clues

[true talon]

They need to absolutely crank up the end game gear to actual power better than mid game. or else they have no design space for anything. which i think is coming, as they been slowly feeling in all the mid game gear gaps.

[analog crow]

Re: game balance/ ironman, I think Jagex has a wish to push more players into late-midgame to lategame content, but most players are not willing to do the long grinds for certain items, or save up the gp for those items

Moons of peril is basically the perfect content for such players. The grind isn't very long because of the dupe protection, there is no supply cost, and the gear is reasonably good as a lot of content.

[vernal valve]

It was pitched as Bandos tier mage armor, and now it's stuck as defacto BIS mage forever

[true talon]

It was not, huey was a failure. the items do not in anyway present themself in ironman progression.

[vernal valve]

I mean, it was definitely intended as Ironmen gear. It just sucks and isn't worth the time.

[true talon]

Hueyhide is not in any way shape or form a quick an easy ironman upgrade lmfao

[vernal valve]

What they intended and how it ended up aren't the same, lol

[true talon]

infact it has same crafting lvl as black d hide

[gaunt kestrel]

the intention and the execution is not the same

its an alternative to blessed hide that you dont have to rng from clues

it has no other reason to exist apart from being that alternative

[true talon]

Irons dont care about blessed d hide

We can get eclipse or karils

or even just normal black d hide

we do clues for blessed boots and the boots arent worth it now that mixed hide exists

[gaunt kestrel]

yes so hueycoatl armor should have never existed

[true talon]

Correct

[gaunt kestrel]

but it was added into the game under the aforementioned pretense

whether it fulfilled its purpose is another discussion entirely

[meager flame]

Yeah can't fix stupid though

[gaunt kestrel]

(the answer obviously is no)

[true talon]

It was added into the game as they wanted to do a group boss.

and didnt know what mid game rewards to stick on it

[meager flame]

The real father of huey hide is undefeated

[gaunt kestrel]

anyways i wont 🎣

[true talon]

They landed on a wand (useless) a potion (good) and blessed d hide alterantive (useless)

You can just go get elite void and not need d hide at all

elite void for all 3 styles is strong enough for any mid game and even some end game content and is free.

[meager flame]

Also tbh about the whole iron thing

Funnily enough the game already was like that

Its a relatively modern thing where jagex rates are actually unhinged

[true talon]

They arent catering around irons when they add stuff, they are catering to combat brackets and gear progression gaps. its only seen as ironman catering, because only irons interact with majority of the systems of the game.

[meager flame]

About the same age as the iron mode

[vernal valve]

they do both, lol

[meager flame]

The worst rates in the game were gwd in osrs at one point

[covert parrot]

Everyone in the game interacts with drop tables. Who is dupe protection (moons, dt2, yama) catering to if not irons? cloggers?

[meager flame]

Jagex just successfully moved the goalpost on that topic to another planet since then though

Everyone should be pissed about it tbh

[gaunt kestrel]

its not either one nor the other - its possible that the catering is towards both ironmen and towards offering an ezscape alternative

[meager flame]

Thats the crazy thing about it though its not even ezscape

[true talon]

dt2 dont have dupe protection, neither does yama. he has a system to sacrifice basically 9 dupes to get the hell out of the boss and thats it.

[vernal valve]

I mean the rates at which people were doing GWD back in early OSRS were definitely horrifically bad, tbh. Even now, Bandos is realistically a 40 hour completion (not counting pet) minimum for most people. It's just nobody cared about time to complete back then, just getting any unique drops. But yeah, you're not entirely wrong.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame COX.

[meager flame]

Yeah but people just brought friends

[covert parrot]

oh yeah woops, didnt mean to mention dt2

[meager flame]

So their kill speeds were actually fine its like how people talk about the very original gwd release like people were doing solos

[true talon]

Heres somewhere dupe protection would absolutely nice, this is mid game content and a player could be stuck here for 2300 kc is beyond insane.

[meager flame]

They were in masses and small teams smacking the bosses

[covert parrot]

why is the player stuck there?

[vernal valve]

the kill speeds were fine but most of GWD completion time is spent waiting for respawns anyway, lol

[true talon]

In this case, me lol

[meager flame]

Yeah I just think people dont realize how easy team gwd has always been

[true talon]

To get the one item that is actually useful to an end game account for CA's

[upbeat moss]

They're not. It's an iron complaint. Aka, moaning about the game mode they chose

[true talon]

on release there was 50 people with darkbows, we all speced an the boss died before doing anything.

[vernal valve]

that's true, people talk about it like ppl were sending in 2 Kill whip solos back then or something, which most people weren't

it was pretty braindead

[meager flame]

The biggest decision was if you wanted to try and duo one kc after like 3 hours and your tank had to bank finally

[vernal valve]

I'm just saying the rates themselves were pretty terrible

[true talon]

Meanwhile mains are whining about drops bein devalued, while adding to the devaluation by farming the boss themself

[frail bough]

i think choosing to play a gamemode and then having issues with how some of the things are with said gamemode is perfectly fine.
Imagine if main was the only gamemode and then the reasoning was something along the lines "well you don't have to play this game!"

very weird

[meager flame]

That exists

[frail bough]

yes i know

[meager flame]

Its the ezscape

Which is funny because

[frail bough]

"hey lets suggest you just don't play the game and also please dont make suggestions on how to make the game potentially more enjoyable"

like thats so backwards lol

[vernal valve]

"i don't like X"
"ok don't play the game"

I've seen it every community, but I've never seen it anywhere near as bad as in OSRS, lmao

[meager flame]

The game takes longer than ever and asks you for like 25x the commitment

Than it did in the past

[small anvil]

I think dupe protection is a fine mechanic to have

Moons handled it nicely I think

For iron catered things

[hard axle]

The length does add to the longevity. There were MMOs that you complete the update in a week of 1 hour per day and they are dead now

[covert parrot]

i have no issue with them making changes that improve the game for players of any game mode, as long as they dont mess with something core to the game like drop tables, because that affects everyone

[tacit wharf]

i think it becomes a very slippery slope very quickly

[meager flame]

Yeah but people play like its getting easier

[vernal valve]

sort of. I think a lot of gametime back in Ye Olden Days was spent on skilling/leveling, and over time, more of that focus has shifted into time spent on getting drops/doing PVM.

[hard axle]

you can be an antisocial loner, but having people to talk to and interact in game or discord because they’re also playing DOES make the game more enjoyable

[small anvil]

Like I don't think cloggers enjoy getting massive dupe amounts either

[meager flame]

I cant believe the mining grind got 3 hours shorter omg its ruined btw we added another 70 hour armor completion today

Unironically happens every time

[hard axle]

the alternative is being a part of a mmo with only 30 people on average

And half of them are afking

because the 2000+ already finished the grind

So no, length of grinds isn’t bad

commitment isn’t bad

[small anvil]

Grinds being long is how you extend the lifespan of content

I feel like having pets or chase rares and leaving the gear as reasonable to obtain is ok tho

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[meager flame]

Yeah I'm mostly just saying theyre being excessive occasionally

[analog crow]

100% agree
Make the progression items reasonable and keep cosmetics and prestige items rare

[hard axle]

I will literally die in this hill because this particular mmo im referencing has had 3 private servers to fix the problems stemming from trivializing grinds and rendering past grinds irrelevant

[small anvil]

Like irons are a good chunk of the more dedicated customers and like it or not, jagex will cater to them in some way

[hard axle]

and the game was most active whrn the grinds were long

[small anvil]

I'd rather have limited dupe protection than shards I think?

[hard axle]

Instead of 80% drop rate

[covert parrot]

I personally feel there should be a different standard for BIS. dry and dupe protection on midgame content isnt as offensive to me as dry/dupe protection on endgame content with BIS gear

[meager flame]

Yeah but our short grinds are unbelievably long

[analog crow]

Dupe protection would maybe already solve most issues

[hard axle]

Oh no, you’d think so, but no

[meager flame]

No they are lol

[small anvil]

I like how nox hally is handled for example

It's got visible progression

[tacit pendant]

Dupe protection is not a slippery slope, but its not necessary / mandatory

[meager flame]

Oathplate is the same length of time it takes to complete 3 non elden ring games

[hard axle]

The 2010 mmo with 3 private servers/reboots was like 1% drop rate for a 30 minute 8 man raid at the start

[small anvil]

Unlike the ring vestiges

[meager flame]

And we sit here like its too short

[hard axle]

They had craftable blueprints though

for the uniques

As a side drop

The blueprints themselves were rancid too

[frail bough]

I personally would love a combination of dry protection for unclogged items similar to what rs3 has.
Something along the lines of

• Once you are over rate, your drop rates are generally more common for X item until you receive X item.
• EX. Item is 1/3000, after you are at 3001 kc its now 1/2900 (or whatever feels right)
• Again, only for items you don't have clogged.

After you've clogged, then the drop rates are just static

[hard axle]

And their achievement diaries were 1000x more impactful too

Smithing and crafting diaries be like

[meager flame]

At some point it stops being about it taking long enough to feel like an achievement

[tacit pendant]

Tradeable items shouldnt have scaling drops rates just for clogging/irons

[meager flame]

And turns into how much will I let this dev team waste my life

Jagex just realized they can push osrs players pretty far

They did overstep though with some stuff finally

[small anvil]

I think dupe protection is better than just making things easier to get

[meager flame]

Like nex

[frail bough]

All items should just be untradable 😉

[meager flame]

Cox is honestly another one

[small anvil]

If the goal is to limit the collection time for irons to under a bar

[hard axle]

move irons to a diff server and do whatever they want

[tacit pendant]

Game would be dead in a month if everyone had to iron

[hard axle]

cuz if the goal is to be a soloable server, let them

[frail bough]

i dont think almost any iron plays iron to be solo, they play it to obtain the clog

[hard axle]

People don’t say this but irons do actually pot with others because teams are often easier

[frail bough]

and because game is more fun with people

[tacit pendant]

3/4 of community quits on announcement of no trade, irons quit because they have no community to flex to

[small anvil]

Iron is often extending the game after reaching goals as a main lol

[meager flame]

Tbh I prefer not having a team a lot of the time

[small anvil]

And maybe to avoid the temptation to just bond buy stuff

[hard axle]

People really underestimate how much people play just to flex

64/64 goal offers me nothing

[meager flame]

Not becaise I dont like people but

Idk being able to do what I want and play the hours I want is great

[hard axle]

But it’s a good flex nonetheless

especially if I remain 4 digit hours lucky

[analog crow]

Oh yeah a gim would not work for me at all
another player pressuring me to kill bandos until I get tassets for the whole team? Not on my life.

[frail bough]

😂

[small anvil]

Join the biggest gim group, mains

[hard axle]

Mains are just server wide gum

[frail bough]

No no no trust, you do the CG grind, I'll do agility. It'll all work out I promise

[hard axle]

[small anvil]

That's my joke

[hard axle]

I’ll lyk how I feel about CG after 5x dry of youngleff

[frail bough]

💀

[hard axle]

From balance perspective, it’s not bad at all cuz it’s like Yama where you can get t3 and 24 fish if your donkey shit and want to face tank everything

but you can also run in t1 8 fish and a dream

[analog crow]

You can also run contracts and lose all hope

[tacit pendant]

Drop rates might change Thursday, kinda beating a dead horse. The red armor has grown on me alot, i hope they adjust radiant, its lazy/stormtrooper

If they dont change thursday were likely stuck with em

[gray lake]

Drop rates more rare or less rare? You think

[tacit pendant]

If changed, more rare

[analog crow]

I bet some hcgim team is already decked out in full radiant

[tacit pendant]

I put it at 20% of changing at all

[small anvil]

Hard core in bloody no way

That one requires so many chances

[covert parrot]

the fallout from the playerbase would likely be catastrophic if they nerf it further, so i feel like they wont

[analog crow]

Just 1 click tele ez

[covert parrot]

would be happy to be wrong tho

[sacred oracle]

catastrophic is a strong word

i think it'll just be the normal amount of complaining if yama drops become more rare, except for contracts

[tacit pendant]

I doubt anyone with over 100kc at yama thinks the armor is not common enough

The "playerbase" in question wouldnt have been able to afford oathplates price even if they kept the old rates

[covert parrot]

Maybe, although i feel like the high accessibility of Yama has allowed a greater number of players to try it out

[sacred oracle]

i'm close to greenlog in two weeks, the drop rates are quite generous enough

[covert parrot]

and those players are gonna be the ones to freak

[sacred oracle]

and yama isn't supposed to accessible, at least not the way it was presented

it was always presented as endgame boss

as to how endgame it really is, well, that's a question

[tacit pendant]

Honestly the ffa world isnt THAT bustling

You would be surprised the % of players dont have a kingdom divided done

[covert parrot]

ya i probably would haha

[hard axle]

Contracts are already approaching the point of uselessness

[sacred oracle]

missing two pieces, and if i'd actually kept the oathplate shards i think i'd just need one more piece for set

[hard axle]

You buff it again and it might as well not exist like ancient essence

[gaunt kestrel]

yea you're just spooned ngl

[hard axle]

[tacit pendant]

I have had like 3 irl friends get let down because either WGS or Akd wasnt done on their mains

And they wont go do them

[gaunt kestrel]

obviously you can't take your personal experience as gospel because stats dont work like that

[small anvil]

Shards don't grant clog so wouldn't help you mox

[tacit pendant]

Of course

[sacred oracle]

it's 1 in 120 for oath/horn, so i'm pretty much on rate

[tacit pendant]

But ffa worlds are not massively crowded

[small anvil]

Soon you'll need to duo for pet though

[sacred oracle]

yeah

kind of not liking that part, but it is a duo boss after all

it's just weird that the only part that heavily needs a duo is the pet, the part most people care about the least

[small anvil]

A lot of the choices for the boss were weird

[gaunt kestrel]

oh oops you're right, im just thinking about the armor

horn is a useless item so i've wiped it from my memory

[sacred oracle]

it crashed so hard

[small anvil]

Horn is so cheap is sad

[covert parrot]

hey my iron friend got a horn and he likes to toot me

[sacred oracle]

turbo useless

[small anvil]

Like it's a good item

But

[sacred oracle]

i use it to shock and amaze at the craft guild

[small anvil]

Idk, 3 for every full set of oath

[tacit pendant]

I pray thursday they take the claws training weights off of horn

Like... atleast let us try it for a week, since we were always the playtesters

[gaunt kestrel]

my greedy personal desire is to be able to self horn

though i acknowledge that would be really powerful

[sacred oracle]

i think at 50% spec it would be fine, but what do i know

[covert parrot]

being able to consitently elder maul a target would be nice

they put defence floors on a bunch of monsters now anyways

[gaunt kestrel]

the qol for yama solos would be nuts

[sacred oracle]

i assume it's pretty nutty with alts

i just haven't tried it anywhere yet

[gaunt kestrel]

yea its probably mega big with alts

[true talon]

Move normies to their own server with all the bots and gold farmers and let them have their 1/10k per unique from 10 minute boss.

[gaunt kestrel]

give ironmen their own server where all the drops can be 1/1

and they start off maxed

[sacred oracle]

just mute all irons, it's time

[gaunt kestrel]

make irons have to solo tob for tob drops

[true talon]

Would still have more to do than a normie. youd still have to go out and prep all your supplies 🙂

[gaunt kestrel]

gz you're so good for making your potions

you should get a medal

[true talon]

Gratz your good for buying every item you own.

[gaunt kestrel]

yea sorry going fast at content isnt meaningful enough to you

wcyd

and ackshually

i have to make my own surge potions

[sacred oracle]

do we have to have an iron argument every day in this channel

we need a list of banned words for this channel

iron

[gaunt kestrel]

its only tass

[sacred oracle]

main

taco

[frail bough]

arrows

[sacred oracle]

we're cooking now

[small anvil]

Apparently you can smuggle horn proc to hit muspah

[frail bough]

official bank loadouts

[true talon]

Good hope they do it more often. need to force players to actually engage with their content, so everyone can see how awful it is

Royal titan prayers being untradeable was a massive W

[gaunt kestrel]

you're talking as though mains never skill

[sacred oracle]

i beg you not to engage him

[gaunt kestrel]

yea sorry

i keep taking the bait

[covert parrot]

bro doesnt know i did 1000 cox for herbs and then made unfinished potions by hand for 99 herb

[true talon]

You skill, but are you going to go yama get barrel of tallow an then make surge pots the moment you run out? or are you going to buy tallow and make them.
You going to grow the torstol or you gonna buy the unfinished product from the GE

[sacred oracle]

i was scrolling through this channel yesterday and it was just hours of everyone vs tass's strange and aggressive takes

[covert parrot]

must be illegal for me to do that as a main

[sacred oracle]

we can purify this channel if we don't engage

[gaunt kestrel]

you get enough tallow from the boss to make your own ngl

[true talon]

You going to get the seeds from 1000 toa or are you gonna buy them

[gaunt kestrel]

you're just moving the goalposts again

anyways

[ancient stag]

can we delete ironman mode? it would achieve world peace

[true talon]

Hope the next BIS upgrade is untradeable and requires you to get 500 kills at respective boss 🙂

[knotty herald]

I hope it comes with a scroll that lets you cast high alchemy as a projectile

[small anvil]

I cast high alchemy on you

[analog crow]

tele-alch

[tough nacelle]

It's the forever struggle

Buff torva rates

Buff nightmare

Buff cox

Release new content that's rare

And stronger

[true talon]

Idc anymore, i just click boss and rates are 50-50 for me

[tough nacelle]

If we're locked to torva armour being bis behind like a 900h nex green log grind

If we ever get an actually impressive melee set were gonna be talking 2-5k hours 😂😂

[vernal valve]

you've just described ancestral, and their solution to that was never releasing a set better than it 😭

8 years since cox release......

[tough nacelle]

Instead we got virtuous which is also awful to grind for 😂😂

Balanced for mains - awful for irons

[hard axle]

I’m making 10m surge pot 4s

green stack

[hard axle]

Waiting for us to fuse virtus and ancestral, while making virtus more common

Give me the fucking original 30-40% accuracy on ancients please from this sacrifice

[small anvil]

Blood barrage afk begs for this

[lament peak]

Huey was just another boss in the realm of Scurrius to teach game mechanics to new players. It just happens to drop seeds plentifully so it's not a bad boss for early irons. Also, Huasca seeds are quite nice. I haven't seen anyone unironically wearing the new dragonhide, and the wand is a meme currently

[hard axle]

Please

I beg

Let me afk KQ

We’re so close

[plush gull]

bruh why are bloodied blows contracts almost a mil again

worse than awakeners orbs

[small anvil]

Hardest contract maybe?

[plush gull]

everyone take their sara swords to demons to try and fix jagex's fuckup

except not really its boring

transferring wealth from midgame players to bots good job

[ember token]

midgame players arent the one doing yama contracts

[plush gull]

literally objectively false

[ember token]

you are not an average player

you are an exception

[plush gull]

no i really am

[ember token]

you can tell yourself that if it makes you happy

[plush gull]

when i was doing colo last year, every single day I saw people lower combat than me, cheaper gear than me, with like 50 kc

[small anvil]

You're not the norm Ren Ren lol

[plush gull]

thousands of people do hard content early

you literally have no basis for your bias

[small anvil]

People tried it out

But not contracts/orbs

[plush gull]

cuz no bonfire update yet

and buy limit of 5 for contracts

[ember token]

you're seeing bots btw

[plush gull]

again, no basis for your bias

lmfao

[ember token]

what made you like this

[small anvil]

Wave 1 farmers for colo

Weren't pushing themselves

If you see undergeared people at Colo these days it's likely wave 1 farming

[plush gull]

i can tell bots apart ive gotten tons of em banned

[ember token]

they said they had kc

[plush gull]

literally thousands of people tho who have done colo with sub 200m banks and similar boss kc to me

just check the hiscores instead of spouting falsehoods

[small anvil]

I mean, a lot of Colo completions are bought =/

[plush gull]

im talking like 50 kc

[small anvil]

But I don't need to convince you

[plush gull]

tens of thousands for 5 kc or less

[ember token]

if there was only thousands of people in the midgame then you would be right, but again, you are not the average midgame player, the average midgame player is a gamer dad who can only play a few hours a week and took 20 years to get their first fire cape

[plush gull]

you've been over this before, "average player gets jad hands after 2 hour fire cape attempt"

i am not some special exception...

[tacit pendant]

Engaging is an interesting strategy here guys

[vernal valve]

the average player is scared of DKs 😭 thousands in a game with 100k+ concurrent players is insignificant

there are 143k people online right now, the average monthly unique player count is certainly WAAAAAAAY higher

[ember token]

this game has million of players

[plush gull]

its literally objective fact that thousands of midgame players with lower combats and less bank value than me have done like 50 kc, its just disingenuous to write me off as some special exception, you've even implied that i'm literally humble bragging and strawmanning my perspective, its just weird

and gross

[tacit pendant]

The mid game players named ZebraRed17qj of course

[restive siren]

Someone didnt get their dose of attention today

[vernal valve]

OSRS progression is nonlinear, people can do colo in rags if they're good enough. By your logic, literally nothing is endgame and midgame players are regularly doing everything.

It just isn't true.

People can do "endgame" content very early, but most people don't

It's just the reality of how the game is structured

[plush gull]

"endgame" is meaningless and jagex needs to understand that and maybe won't fail so hard at updates

[ember token]

ive never implied you're humble bragging because like you said, thousands of player can do colo with relatively low combats and gear, but those thousands of players are not average in a game with millions of players who many of which who are scared to do anything remotely difficult

[plush gull]

just make fun content and let people play it, this playerbase is crazy

[vernal valve]

i don't think a single person is defending contracts, people are just arguing against the claim midgame players are doing contracts

[plush gull]

its literally objective fact tho

[vernal valve]

if all it takes for you to believe that is "a nonzero amount of 'midgame' players are doing contracts", sure

[plush gull]

and thats even when jagex has stacked everything against them

[ember token]

yeah it is an objective fact, but what isn't a fact is that the "average" midgame player is doing it

[vernal valve]

if you mean "a significant portion of people doing it are midgame"

you're dead wrong

[plush gull]

if more midgame players arent doing contracts why do you think that is

[upbeat moss]

theyre hard

[plush gull]

theyre not even allowed to

[ember token]

all I'm taking issue with is your claim that the average midgame player is doing contracts and colo

[vernal valve]

most midgame players probably don't even have oathplate

[vernal valve]

hard + no reason to do them

and to be clear, contracts blow, I'm not defending them

[plush gull]

why would you spend money on oathplate when you can spend money on contracts and orbs instead

[upbeat moss]

no it has to be that theyre not allowed

[analog crow]

not allowed lmfao what does that mean

[plush gull]

buy limit of 5, expensive contracts

pay to fight bosses

[vernal valve]

bc oathplate does something and contracts and orbs mostly don't, wdym 😭

[plush gull]

the worst system in existence

[analog crow]

my brother in christ

you kill 5 demons to get 3 contracts

[restive siren]

The contracts are basically the hardest piece of non artificial content right now, but ye your average gamer dad with base 70s and full dragon armor is trying them

[tacit wharf]

as entertaining as this is to read, im suprised ya'll dont have blocked

[restive siren]

Cant miss the content

[analog crow]

contracts are literally free

[plush gull]

paying to fight bosses is the stupidest system ever

[upbeat moss]

noted

anything else?

[restive siren]

Dont think anyone is disputing that

[tacit pendant]

Btw thousands of midgamers having 50kc is objectively false. 150 sol kc is literal top 1000 in the game. How many of even that which is 90% endgame irons and bots

[restive siren]

Just the rest of your outlandish claims

[tacit pendant]

Mains are sprinkled in there too ofc but a lot of irons going for corrupt quiver

[vernal valve]

i think we've beaten the contract horse far beyond death at this point, we know they're making changes tomorrow, i really don't think any more "feedback" at this point will do anything

[plush gull]

you literally just said it was objectively true

[tacit pendant]

Changes are thursday

[vernal valve]

also wtf is that true? that's way less than I thought it was

[tacit pendant]

Yup

[vernal valve]

damn

[plush gull]

what was your rank when you were 50 kc lmao

[tacit pendant]

Sinbad is rank 10003 or something with 150

[plush gull]

pretty sure theres about 5k with 50 kc

[covert parrot]

im 3k with 65

[tacit wharf]

5k in a sea of 500,000 accounts+ that actually play

[vernal valve]

yeah rank 1000 is 150 sol KC that's fucking crazy

[tacit pendant]

To say that there are thousands of midgamers, when its 5000 total. Holy shit

[vernal valve]

I thought it'd be waaay more

[restive siren]

Sub 1% = average

[vernal valve]

Rank 5000 sol KC is 42 kills

[plush gull]

the bonfire update better be tomorrow, i need to start doing awakened vard

[ember token]

4297 people have at least 50 sol KC

and every single one of them is a midgame player