game-update

[tender harness]

Contracts are also rare and a problem

[tough shoal]

torva is only palettable because the delta dps icnrease from bandos -> torva is small

[winged mantle]

Honestly if you could make torva pieces with lots of nihil shards and bandos components that may be goated

[tough shoal]

we should have contracts to get contracts, like doing a slayer task for a contract style thing

[winged mantle]

Like 1600+

[tough nacelle]

like

lets put it into perspective

[tender harness]

A contract to unlock the contract to get contracts

[tough nacelle]

the drops were so common

youd skip bandos

as an iron

just for this

[analog crow]

Barrows as well honestly, more content should have moons style dupe protection

[tough nacelle]

BGS is all thats needed

[tough shoal]

you're sorta skipping bandos anyway if not for BGS. blood moon has parity offencively

[mild saddle]

for oathplate contract? that's a problem then tbh

delete that and you can keep drop rates a little lower

[shadow fiber]

you only get 1 chance

[tough nacelle]

the def does matter if you can use it

[shadow fiber]

it's fine

[winged mantle]

No for nex

[tough nacelle]

its great in cox etc

[mild saddle]

i mean they're either including it in their calcs or not

oh

yeah ok looks like 1/1.4k

[hard axle]

Don’t agree but it’s merely mentioning why nex is so long and why Yama is so short

[mild saddle]

relevantly common, should be removed

uniques from contracts is such a bad idea

[tough nacelle]

also hear me out

[tough shoal]

defence matters relatively little, as you barely ever use it.
blood moon tassets have the bandos tassets same +2 str, and the chest the same +4 str

[hard axle]

Not nihilism, but another untradeable resource like Torva bars

[winged mantle]

Just something

[tough nacelle]

not true if you get bonked a 55 in CMs from jadding olm

or at vardorvis

for trip duration

it helps

[tough shoal]

it helps, but the overall effect is not that big

[tough nacelle]

anyways, the bigger issue with nex

[vivid ruin]

Def only matters if you own an ely

[tough nacelle]

is nex is harder to find a team for than yama

yama can be solo'd

[wheat mirage]

@winter hearth Maybe you should make it clearer in the post that it is live with change from 7-9 plates, seen many in game realizing this after the making of 7 plates. Ive been watching the shard prices on GE after the post and it's clear that shards are over priced compared to the armour pieces after the post. I think this is because people investing in shards still think the ratio is 350 shards for 1 armour piece. IMO i think it was a wierd move to not change quantity or drop rate of the shards instead of number of plates needed. I can see the confusion still going on in game.

[tough nacelle]

faster KC

low barrier to entry

legit a 45m item ( 2 months ago)

[winged mantle]

Like nex takes too long with no dupe prevention/ dry mechanic

[tough nacelle]

was the same as BIS + Max mage

nex is Tbow, ZCB, Fang, Masori, etc

and still way longer

this isnt suddenly nightmare

nightmare and nex are 100% issues, but this is fair

[mild saddle]

nex could use some dupe protection element

[hard axle]

They could outright replace Torva with Torva bars and you need 6 bars to finish full Torva

That would reduce nex’s grind by 100-150 hours.

We have this system in place at CG with crystal armor seeds btw.

And now oathplate

[mild saddle]

nightmare could just be 2x as common

[winged mantle]

Absolutely

[hard axle]

Nightmare is also the same issue

If it wasn’t for the orbs

Inq would be 50% of the grind

[tough nacelle]

nightmares other issue is on an iron you can get orbs no staff

and staffs arent useful without orbs

and vice versa

[winged mantle]

Irons have no reason to do nightmare imo

[mild saddle]

it's fun

[hard axle]

Ige been saying how nightmare should be buffed per quest line

[tough nacelle]

AND hear me out, the inq mace

[winged mantle]

Besides that

[mild saddle]

lol yeah

[tough nacelle]

is WAYYY too rare for its power

[mild saddle]

i wish a NM staff detour was routable

but it's just not

[winged mantle]

If nightmare's drops were a reasonable grind (200 hours) I'd send it

[tough nacelle]

we cant have profitable drops

and fast easy grinds

[tough shoal]

the inq mace is just in the trio of salad blade, inq mace and rapier. and rapier is the only one that's reasonable in that trio. and even than it competes with fang

for general slayer/combat purposes

[mild saddle]

blade is ok

[winged mantle]

Reasonable for the armour and mace*

[tough nacelle]

I get why people are salty

but

we needed this tbh

[tough shoal]

blade is ok, but it's chained to bowfa in terms of price fixing, so it's not usable on a main @mild saddle

[analog crow]

I was gonna say but yeah for the whole set 200 hrs is fine

[mild saddle]

i think the 4t trio should all be buffed +12 str, and remove that weird inq+mace link

oh in terms of price, yeah blade is screwed for mains

irons get ok mileage out of it

converted my bowfa a while ago and used it a lot

[hard axle]

People whining about Yama rates nerfs are going to get nightmare drop rates on release

Stfu and accept it

[tough shoal]

my bowfa will become a blade the moment i get a tbow or ZCB

[hard axle]

Jagex willing to make changes is GOOD

[winged mantle]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-hmm-pepehmm-table-council-gif-16396395487368552941

[tough shoal]

Change good, FOMO bad, want more worms

[hard axle]

@winter hearth ty again

[mild saddle]

yeah got tbow + shadow and converted, but i also had giga shards and flipped it a few times here or there

[winged mantle]

All things said except contracts they smashed it

[mild saddle]

eh

boss is way overhyped

it's good

it's not amazing

[winged mantle]

Idk I'm enjoying it

[tough nacelle]

Remember DT2?

never forget DT2 drop rates

[winged mantle]

I like that there's different ways to kill it

[mild saddle]

yeah it's solid, but it's not scratching the endgame itch

[tough nacelle]

mid range magic armour for 300h grinds

[lunar oracle]

Abuse early window proven true again. Shame Jagex can't just release a boss where they've thought everything through.

[mild saddle]

the donofly development helps a lot

[winged mantle]

Maybe with perma repeatable contract encounters 👀

[mild saddle]

contracts make me so sad

really held this content back

[winged mantle]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1370533121220411412

Wink

[mild saddle]

idk i's too late ellie

[winged mantle]

I don't think it is

[mild saddle]

they'd need to redesign the whole thing

[tough shoal]

way to late, i would more love to have a consistent way to obtain contracts

[hasty shard]

[winged mantle]

I have a feeling they're cooking as we speak

[tough shoal]

have the voice of yama be like: here's a contract to kill 100 demons with mage, complete it and we'll see about a follow-up contract.

[hasty shard]

i think they need better playtesters

[winged mantle]

Have to wait and see

[mild saddle]

watch the oathplate contract be super fun and it's locked behind a 1/1.4k drop or a 40m contract that no normal person can justify trying it out and learning

[hasty shard]

why the fuck were they getting 8 minute solos in testing? like 😭

hit the boss

[mild saddle]

contracts are just a disaster

[tough shoal]

i would love nightmare droprates on release, if they would buff them after release until it's reasonable

[tough nacelle]

8min solo

doesnt seem that long

3-4min is duo standard

[hasty shard]

you get 6 minute solos lol

huge difference

[tough nacelle]

most people arent gnomonkey lol

with 4 min solos

[mild saddle]

6min solos are just click boss

[hasty shard]

^^

[winged mantle]

I don't think they would

[tough shoal]

than why we balancing content around everyone farming being gnomonkey?

[tough nacelle]

thats 100% not true lol

[mild saddle]

i mean it definitely is

[tough shoal]

that's a problem

[hasty shard]

actually do the boss and come back to me

[tough nacelle]

I have?

[tough shoal]

my iron doesn't have the purging staff
been doing slayer for tormented all week, am at 1500kc no synapse

[hasty shard]

then why are you losing so much time soloing

[tough nacelle]

6min is not an average solo time lol

[hard axle]

Worms should be untradeable, BIS xp rates after gathering, and a lot more per kill

[tough shoal]

sure, yes, yes!

[lunar oracle]

Decrease drop rates by 30% because ultra sweats who play the game 18 hours a day for a living are doing it tick perfect. I'd be more curious about how long the average kill is for solo/duo than using outliers to justify nuking the drop table.

[hasty shard]

[subtle merlin]

not sure how i feel about the update...

[mild saddle]

drops felt really fast for endgame gear tbh

[tough shoal]

purging staff should give infinite fire runes

[subtle merlin]

my clan is pretty avg. we are getting about 3:30 to 4m kc

[tough nacelle]

8h for a split unique

is pretty nutty

ngl

for end game gear

was old rates

4 min duos

was quite easy even with bank time

[tough shoal]

i just pray they un-do the nerf in a couple of months

[tough nacelle]

its still really fast

[mild saddle]

there's no way they undo the nerf

[tough shoal]

when the sweats go back to their sweats stuff

[tough shoal]

[hard axle]

kill time for melee is like 2:30-3:15

In a few months, they’ll likely find even faster tech

[tough nacelle]

yeah

4,0

is nuts

[mild saddle]

that is in max tbf

[hard axle]

I personally think the uniques should’ve been 2x as rare but wcyd

[mild saddle]

people in max will not be at this boss for too long

it's just not interestng enough

[subtle merlin]

even in the blog they stated there are mechanics we havent found out yet.

[mild saddle]

the probably mean the glyph spec thing

[tough nacelle]

max isnt much for this boss

[mild saddle]

which people did know

[tough nacelle]

with demon bane

[sand gazelle]

Bro I am starting to hate how elitist Yama is starting to get already. I’m having a hard time getting duo partners.

[tough shoal]

the meteor veng thing would require you to be on lunars, don't see that happening

[subtle merlin]

clan up is all i can say. mine is still bringing anyone and we are just there to have a good time

[charred matrix]

Spell book swap possible

[tough shoal]

the meteor in p2's damage is reduced by 75% or something if you veng it

[tough shoal]

can't cast demonbane spells with purging staff on lunars

[charred matrix]

Ah yea right

[mild saddle]

sounds like the idea is to have someone on lunars and someone on arceuss

and that's to create roles

[charred matrix]

Melee with lunars?

[mild saddle]

well both would melee

but one would be tasked with jellies as they spawn

[hard axle]

It’s mostly a speedrun thing with magic cape

One person can do jellies and the other can throw venges and use shadow

[mild saddle]

i appreciate the effort there

[tough shoal]

you spellbook swap for thralls, but you'd still miss on death charge + demonbane spells

[mild saddle]

see if it works out

[tough nacelle]

we did that as a duo

made roles since my friend just had arclight lol

100% doable

[charred matrix]

You could do the flare skip with 2 glyphs in p1 and p2 and only have to deal with them in p3

[mild saddle]

getting a dps check P3 not amazing but yeah you could, for consisntent kills i think you want a purging staff on the team though

[exotic bear]

Do we have an idea of what yama's rare drops were at for rates on release vs now? Wiki doesn't seem to have gotten enough info to get the original number before the change.

[tough shoal]

my wish for yama is to have the worm drops go from 90/drop to 270/drop

[mild saddle]

that's cool if it develops out to work, venge is pretty hard to justify for a boss that encourages longer trips

i suppose you could sgs spec judge

[tough shoal]

wish we had borrowed power

[mild saddle]

i've thought that made sense as a way to buff the standard book

don't love it being used by the other already good books

[tough shoal]

Borrowed Power is a spell in the Lunar spellbook. Level 99 Magic are required for using this spell.
3 astral runes + the runes of your "set" spell to cast it

[charred matrix]

Upgraded Lunar spells from raids 4

[ember token]

there is also only a limited set of spells that can be cast with borrowed power

[tough shoal]

allows you to "set" it with a single spell from another spellbook

[tough shoal]

in an osrs version of borrowed power i could see it having a much wieder range of spells than rs3 got.

ice barrage + veng or ice barrage + thralls don't seem like too too big of a problem

i woudn't personally for osrs go full what rs3 did and add spellbook swap to the ancient spellbook

but getting a single spell of choice inside the lunar spellbook for a surcharge of 3 astrals + your standard runes doesn't seem broken

[slender vapor]

Watching the yama jmod runs

It's funny watching them do p3

Planking in a duo twice

[austere mulch]

First surge pot gets an unpolled adjustment in tob that basically limits you to 2 doses per raid, now horn doesn’t apply to the first hitsplat, but instead the second of claw specs - making it no longer worth using for p2 in 5s. Aka the only place you would want to use it outside of sote

Sad days

Hype went from 10 to 2

[tough shoal]

what changed with surge pot?

don't tell me you were planking on purpose in tob?

[shell pecan]

Glad all the jobless people who grinded Yama for two days were rewarded and anyone trying to jump in this weekend gets 30% lower drop rate, really great from jagex on this one

[tough nacelle]

price will go up

accordingly though

[dry pond]

Playtesters smashed it out of the park 10/10

[shell pecan]

I play iron who cares

[tough shoal]

sure, as did the price of inquisitor armour

[tough nacelle]

not the same lol

[serene coral]

Can someone explain to me what change with the soulflame horn ? Please

[tough shoal]

balancing around the economy is balancing around botfarms. you cannot change my mind.

[lunar oracle]

Jagex hates people who are employed confirmed.

[tough nacelle]

sucks but reality they cant balance around ironman

most content is bad endgame for irons

[shell pecan]

This has nothing to do with balancing around irons

[thick beacon]

is that after the nerf?

[tough nacelle]

the reality is what you're asking is the drop rate to be perfect every time

[tough shoal]

no, post-nerf is more 100

[tough nacelle]

for 3 uniques its like 65h? with oathplate shards its like 85

to complete

on an iron

for some of the best armour in the game....

[frigid aspen]

completely reasonable

[tough nacelle]

no idea why people are losing their mind

[thick beacon]

85 hours for better torva seems like a steal still

[tough nacelle]

lol yeah

[shell pecan]

30% is insanely far off, and the only people who benefited were super sweats spending 10hrs a day grinding Yama

[fossil epoch]

Did jagex say why demonic worms arent clogs btw? might end up comming from other sources aswell i guess
they feel similar to the sunfire splinters, which are a clog

[tough nacelle]

its 100% shit to do on an iron

[serene coral]

Is not better torva , is better bandos tho

[tough nacelle]

this just isnt true

the price was in the boots

like 100-150m per part

its up to 250m now

[shell pecan]

You must have a smooth brain, I’m done here

[frigid aspen]

how big % of the playerbase do you think benefited massively from this?

[thick beacon]

vast majoirty of places meta is gona be to camp oath body/legs and use torva help i think

[tough shoal]

only with scythe

[tough nacelle]

you cant expect jagex to land everything perfectly on every update for the drop rates etc

they NEED to be willing to change them

or prices wont be sustainable

See TOA and all the GP is in the mega rarew

[frigid aspen]

better late than never

[tough nacelle]

I 100% get why you're frusterated

but

this was the right call

[serene coral]

This please ? Not sure if I understood correctly

[tough nacelle]

the uniques were WAY too common

[tough shoal]

balancing around the economy is balancing around botfarms. you cannot change my mind.

[tough nacelle]

depends on the item, not fully accurate not fully wrong

yama has a lot of quest reqs so probably wont be botted too badly

[tough shoal]

if it's not worth it for mains they just go farm another boss

[tough nacelle]

100% will be botted

[tough nacelle]

ehh this isnt true either

most mains enjoy playing a variety of content

[gritty briar]

100% not true

[tough shoal]

i see cloggers as ironman-style main play

[tough nacelle]

not everyone just goes best gp/hr

[frigid aspen]

if this was true, every normie would be duoing nex

[gritty briar]

Most mains do what they enjoy

[frigid aspen]

so do irons I feel like

not much difference there

[gritty briar]

Most players in the game do everything inefficiently and just play for fun

[tough shoal]

ironman players tend to be a certain variant of clogger

[frigid aspen]

most ironmen do not have the time to clog

[vale vale]

Most people*

[tough shoal]

getting bis on a ironman is a certain type of clogging

getting anything on a ironman is a type of clogging

[frigid aspen]

playing the game is clogging then?

so how is it different from mains

[tough shoal]

mains can decide not to do the content and just buy items

and thus leaning on another player or robot

[frigid aspen]

at this point we have sidegrades for almost everything in the game

[hard axle]

Balancing around irons is skipping over content because you don’t want the hours too different, even if the rewards are busted

[frigid aspen]

I feel like irons have a lot of choise for gear already

[hard axle]

A good example is Bowfa

it nuked gear diversity on release

Fang too

[frigid aspen]

yep, was a mistake

[hard axle]

bludgeon remains dead content, hasta, etc.

[frigid aspen]

shadow aswell, only thing that justifies it is the rarity

[hard axle]

[tough shoal]

neither bowfa nor fang was balanced around ironman btw

[tough nacelle]

Yes it was

[frigid aspen]

and voidwaker too

[hard axle]

Bowfa was literally added for irons lmao

[tough nacelle]

I say this as an old late game iron

Man bowfa legit was all you needed as a range wep

[gritty briar]

Im lost ngl what is your point allu?

[tough nacelle]

It's all I used for 2 years

Legit 2 years

[tough shoal]

bowfa was added because they actively nerfed a specific usecase for the blowpipe and created a hole in gear progression

[hard axle]

Point is saying don’t balance around economy is dumb when 70% of players are still mains

At the very least

[frigid aspen]

🤝
0kc cg, I thought bowfa destroys gear progression and makes it boring

[vale vale]

I mean it doesn’t matter if 10% were, ironmen don’t get affected by mains right?

[hard axle]

the last time Jagex has said anything about this was “30% of people have an iron” not that it’s actively played either

[oblique mesa]

Very disingenuous, can say the same thing, ermmm actually the 70% of mains are mostly bots

[tough shoal]

there's long documents explaining in detail why balancing around player-obtainability is a good thing, but i ain't goign to convince you, nor will you convince me that balancing around botfarms is good. so i'm going to leave it a rest.

[hard axle]

Irons prefer higher drop rates with dupe and dry protections. Mains prefer somewhere in the middle between Yama and nightmare

[gritty briar]

I get that but obviously they don't want irons to get oath plate in 60hr either?

[tough nacelle]

The reality is

We can't balance around the iron gamemode or prices are In the boots

[gritty briar]

Irons can kill yama as fast as mains no?

[vale vale]

That doesn’t go against what I said at all

[hard axle]

This is from Jagex’s mouth, so nothing disingenuous about it. They could’ve gave us shit info, but anything else is a guess because it’s not confirmed

[gritty briar]

Idk where the main vs irons come from here

[oblique mesa]

Ah yes jagex said 30% of the player base is irons that dont actively play /eyeroll

[tough nacelle]

The drop rate difference

[hard axle]

They said 30% of the playerbase have an iron. Nothing about activity.

[tough nacelle]

So mega rares are not balanced for irons

And never can be

[hard axle]

I have an iron and access to a few endgame irons

[tough nacelle]

But on a main they're really fun

[gritty briar]

I get that but as far as i understand they wanted the journey to oath to be around 75?

[hard axle]

I don’t play them actively

[tough nacelle]

They didn't give an hour time frame

They said bandos and next

Nex

[vale vale]

I don’t think the game should balance anything around irons. They intention of iron account was to be a challenge.

[hard axle]

Player obtainability is important, but so is not repeating the fang/toa shitshow

[tough nacelle]

Yeah it's hard to balance

Drop rates are brutally hard

[full shell]

It’s not due to irons it’s due to the fact the people were getting 2:30 minute kills

[gritty briar]

Ah i thought i saw one mb

[hard axle]

By balancing well around mains player obtainability, you also don’t make it atrocious for irons

[full shell]

It’s a good call

[tough nacelle]

The reality is the items were the same as synapse prices

[vale vale]

I was speaking in general

[tough nacelle]

Or getting close to

That's clearly too common

[tough shoal]

balancing around economy get's you the nightmare

[hard axle]

They sold this as pnm length, but it’s much faster per kill and duo is about 3x as fast

[full shell]

In its current state oathplate woudlve just been another inquisitor grind

[tough nacelle]

Not true

[tough shoal]

or revenants

[hard axle]

Nightmare was just a shit decision overall and most people have said to buff the rates

[frigid aspen]

I think balancing things that don't affect the normal account playerbase at all is fine. But as an ironman player, I do agree things like droprates should not be balanced around ironmen. I chose this playstyle.

[hard axle]

That said, getting a 1b drop on release was nice

[full shell]

Yeah but they can’t always account for the crazy strats people discover to lower kill times

[tough nacelle]

Balancing around economy gets you arraxor

[gritty briar]

I don't think the iron v main convo here gains anything, we are just better than jagex expected no?

[full shell]

I’m honestly happy because it made Yama even more profitable

[hard axle]

I’m happy with the nerf but do think the nerf should’ve been heavier

If we’re going back to Yama talks

[tough shoal]

an ironman player would expect to never see third age armour from clue scrolls. but that's only ok because 3a armour from clue scrolls isn't required/the end goal

[frigid aspen]

yeah for those who can kill it properly instead of mage camping and burning through a million soul runes

[tough nacelle]

I think if the nerf was heavier

It would be REAL shit

Release rarer drop rates

[hard axle]

I still think the oathplate shards should be untradeable

[tough nacelle]

Is fine

[hard axle]

there’s no reason why the shards should be common and tradeable

[tough nacelle]

But nerfing rates by 50% feels bad

[tough nacelle]

That's fair

Defeats dupe protection

[hard axle]

Shards:dry protections actually allow the rates to be more rancid

[tough nacelle]

And just adds to gp/hr

[frail nebula]

bowfa was added to account for the fact that they nerfed the blowpipe

[gritty briar]

I think that's fair but i did make some good cash early thanks to them 😄

[oblique mesa]

Worms needed a buff in quantity too 😦

[austere mulch]

As polled, it was to tick down between rooms and on death

In speedruns, where you’re already trading and godbooking, the total added time between rooms was <90sec. Changing this to not tick between rooms because people thought it meant afking for 5mins was awful. It also is bad for money raids because if it were to tick between rooms, you could use it at both sote and verzik. With it not, you can only use it at one of the two and verzik is always better. Of the entire raid, those are the two rooms you want to use it the most. Effectively you’re now locked into using it at bloat and p1 instead aka 2 doses per raid

Was just an overall net negative with no benefit

[hard axle]

I really like soulreaper untradeable status until you do all 4

[flint stump]

They're tradable because they wanted to create a shared economy with the shale mining activity

[tough nacelle]

See I like it but hate it with the way the rings work

Feels like the two systems fight each other

[tough shoal]

i like your funny words magic man.

[austere mulch]

With the reason effectively being “fomo for not waiting for it to reset”

If there were any fomo to exist, then people would have been already booking and trading in money raids

But nobody does because it’s not worth

[tough nacelle]

If you get a ring but no weapon shard, it feels like you gotta go back but might be 2/3

[gritty briar]

Im in the same boat tbh

[hard axle]

Local osrs historian here and it was panic added because people wanted a midground post nerf, especially irons who were saying addy BP post nerf was too weak (it was an 8% nerf lmao).

[fossil epoch]

People gotta start replacing FOMO with ROMO (Relief of missing out)

[hard axle]

The rings

I have so many issues with

There’s a reason why ultor is the only worthwhile ring

[slender vapor]

Stares at mixology

[hard axle]

Venator should’ve been 3-4
Magus was crippled by shadow
Bellator got fucked by Rancour AND oathplate

I said Bellator should’ve been +50 on release and I stand by it

[tough nacelle]

That's fair

Rings are a big mess

[austere mulch]

They nerfed its use with dclaws and bclaws pretty considerably to where it’s arguably not worth using for them anymore

[tough nacelle]

Magus is so shit lol

[hard axle]

Dude, I started this yesterday and I want to kill someone

[fossil epoch]

ngl any iron doing mage at Yama without having a heart, i feel so much for them

[tough nacelle]

Legit the worst ring

Venator is also crap

[frail nebula]

Bellator is exactly the same strength loss compared to an ultor as oathplate is compared to torva

[hard axle]

mixology is actually rancid how many stalls it is

[austere mulch]

And that’s 2 of the 5 weapons that the horn was good for in the first place

[frail nebula]

And yet it has significantly less accuracy than oathplate

[hard axle]

I proposed +8 str and +50 acc

[tough nacelle]

Really? I like mixology

[austere mulch]

1 of the other is a meme weapon (Abby dagger)

[hard axle]

for Bellator

[oblique mesa]

Mixology is full of bots with 99+ herblore lmao

[hard axle]

I wanna 1t the levers and the vials

Please

[austere mulch]

And the other two are hammer and maul, which are basically the same

[frail nebula]

well it'd certainly be used at that point

though I honestly think that might go slightly too far

[tough nacelle]

1t anything is smooth af

[hard axle]

+6 str is too weak

[slender vapor]

How much does heart actually help?

[hard axle]

And that’s why Yama killed Bellator even more

[hard axle]

Purging staff gang

Melee gang

[tough nacelle]

Not much

[hard axle]

Fuck the imbued heart

[tough nacelle]

It helps for accuracy

But marginally

[hard axle]

[fossil epoch]

iirs i got 6 max hits with purging

[slender vapor]

The fuck

[fossil epoch]

and the accuracy sure does something

[hard axle]

WHAT

[slender vapor]

And saturated boost so that's just solid

[hard axle]

since when the fuck do you get max hits with purging

[tender harness]

since shut up

[fossil epoch]

wait you dont?

[hard axle]

[hard axle]

You don’t

[sacred skiff]

Only powered staves

[fossil epoch]

i went from 54->60 after hearting on judge of yama

[hard axle]

Mark of darkness + demonbane

[fossil epoch]

hmm idk why i was hitting lower that then

[tender harness]

so whos ready for max efficency delves to take 400 hours

[hard axle]

You should be hitting 71 in 3 day

[fossil epoch]

?

how?

[slender vapor]

400 hours for just the new staff

Or riot

Muh economy

[hard axle]

Wait no, it hits 54 on judge

[sacred skiff]

You have to, it's a stepping stone for shadow

can't have it being less than the time to get shadow ofc

[slender vapor]

[hard axle]

Hang on

Shadow should be sub 100 hours

[thick beacon]

i never felt that way they said it was faster then nex (which is way faster then nm already)

[slender vapor]

I definitely want to try my saturated heart at yama though

6 max hits

👀

[true talon]

Duo system issue basically

[hard axle]

Wait no

Hold

[sacred skiff]

500s without shadow though?

[hard axle]

Yeah it’s 70 hours in max

[slender vapor]

Toa drops scaling above 400 was a mistake

[true talon]

Should be untradeable and lower this amount needed to create a unique.

[hard axle]

Just something

It shouldn’t be making 2/3 pieces ever

at most 1/3 piece

[thick beacon]

500s are pretty hard i feel esp without shadow

if they can do it i think reward is totaly fair

[true talon]

Ya to many people look at max gear rates lol

[thick beacon]

i still feel like 400 is better ur gona plank way more and scaling becomes worse post 400

[true talon]

Oh I’m doing 35 min 540s in absolute max so toa must be to easy

[thick beacon]

unless u can stay extremely consistent

[slender vapor]

Max gear max skill rates aren't what most people are pulling

[sacred skiff]

And yet the outcry comes from people in max gear who play the game for a living so

[true talon]

Seems they balancing around the top end which is bad

I saw a guy in void which was still a 200m investment took 9 mins to solo Yama

[hard axle]

It’s the only fair objective way otherwise you have people saying shit like

“But I don’t have aheims”

[true talon]

Because it still took 2 synapse weps

[hard axle]

It detracts so much from the convo and actual discussion

because semantics

[slender vapor]

I think it detracts from the convo to only talk about max gear max skill rates when talking about what people realistically will do

[hard axle]

You have to agree on an even objective setting or else it becomes a problem imo

[true talon]

Me and my friend got 3 min kills just with max melee and 3 way purging staff

[slender vapor]

It's not realistic

[hard axle]

It’s a relative comparison

[hard axle]

ofc, but still a good relative comparison

[true talon]

But we also max accounts

[thick beacon]

i saw jcw do duos and his personal pph seemed pretty mid despite raids being pretty good

[hard axle]

And that’s another issue

Someone says “But I’m 75 magic”

This is why it’s always better to use max gear max stats when comparing

[frigid aspen]

the droprate change is only a problem if you literally want to greenlog the boss in 1 weekend, which it was not meant for

[true talon]

Dark demonbane is insane as long as you can cast it lol

[hard axle]

It’s less bullshit

[slender vapor]

99s with non complete welfare gear is a reasonable mid point of discussion

[thick beacon]

not having shadow as iron is a big diffrence though compared to max

[slender vapor]

Max gear is a lazy way to compare

Since it's generally not applicable

It's just easier

[true talon]

The contract pet shouldn’t been walked back on jagex is weak to cave to this.

It also shoulda been untradeable

More I look at contacts and their problems the more I realize the issue is caused because they tradeable

Make them super common and untradeable let people work towards and earn their prestige

Not bank roll it with unlimited gp

[sacred skiff]

True

[slender vapor]

Common and untradeable is ideal, but jagex wanted enforced wealth distribution Communism

[true talon]

More gp woulda beeen dunked by deaths at awakened more so than orbs do lol

[thick beacon]

u need like 6 contracts or something for 1 awaken yama attempt right?

[sacred skiff]

They wanted people able to kill those demons for contracts, now we all (irons) have to kill those demons for contracts lol

Better unblock those greater and black demons :(

[true talon]

5 dif fights for the oathplate recolor with each their own contract

[frigid aspen]

the problem is people who'll do contracts don't want to work for them and people who can't do them want easy gp

[sacred skiff]

I think you need 5/6 different contract wins for the recolor

Not 5/6 contracts per attempt

[hard axle]

This would’ve also been fine and still be untradeable

[sacred skiff]

Untradeable contract for guaranteed pet chance is fine

[hard axle]

but the contracts would need to be common, but if it’s too common, might as well not exist

[sacred skiff]

Tradeable contract for guaranteed pet is lol

[hard axle]

the pet is cool as shit

It gives you backtalk when you interact with it

The fact it says “oh no” when you actually get it is hilarious

[true talon]

They just need to remove it as an actual item and make it a toggle like invos

[thick beacon]

they be hella giving npc some good trash talking

sol was great

[sacred skiff]

Honestly Yama's whole vibe is so good

"Don't let one defeat discourage you. There could be so many more in your future"

[true talon]

They put did themself with this update in terms of how the boss interacts with you and his minions

Him murdering an imp
To bring up the stats was peak

Snapping your loot to appear

[sacred skiff]

I'm just annoyed that I happened to have a heavy workload right when he released, and now I miss out on the better rates now that it's almost the weekend when I can play

[true talon]

Absolutely amazing

[hard axle]

For the 6th time, I’m glad they did what they did with rates

Because it means contracts won’t make it as super common either

[true talon]

I don’t think the rate change was bad. But shoulda came with a base loot buff or sole fight qol

All the unique contracts need to be scrapped

[hard axle]

Demonbane shouldn’t have travel time so I can 1t jellyfish instead of 2t

Also I figured out what you meant by 6 jellyfish

That’s a melee-exclusive mechanic

[true talon]

Yea

[frigid aspen]

at least it was changed before half the active playerbase got to properly benefit from it, damage would've been way worse if let untouched for an enrire weekend

aswell as the shitstorm

[thick beacon]

ripping bandiad off early was good call

wouldve been way worse if they waited like 3months

[slender vapor]

It's neat knowing that you can ignore the p1-2 jellies by just stepping on 2 circles, and p3 it looks like switching to straight mage isn't the worst dps loss if you're lazy about the p3 tech

[true talon]

I only did 47 kills which was 42 duos and 5 solos

[sacred skiff]

You can ignore p1-2 void flares?

[slender vapor]

I saw someone doing it by just stepping on both protection circles

[frigid aspen]

even just 1 weekend would've made it much worse considering it'll be super popular near the release

[true talon]

Mage defense shouldn’t increase in enrage, because it’s harder than melee

[fossil epoch]

so when is the reduced fire rune update coming? they seemed to be able to add the reduced droprate fast?

[thick beacon]

the void flaes have color on them u both can stand on 2 glyphs before they pop

and null the dmg

can do same for the fire waves/shadow flame thing

[slender vapor]

It makes camping melee for 2/3rds of the fight more chill

And less runes

[true talon]

Can’t do this in p3 which is only time you would care about the flares

[frigid aspen]

i think pre p3 flares are a failed dps check, barely had them happen after getting used to the fight

[thick beacon]

ye sometimes on my iron we run into p1 p2 void

cant do it in p3

[hard axle]

Yes

Just damage it

you can also just use the glyphs

To negate damage

if ur close to 66%

[sacred skiff]

In a solo I don't have that many glyphs to spare though

With purging + virtus

[thick beacon]

do they not recharge?

[sacred skiff]

They do, but it takes a bit

[true talon]

Why can’t we just 1 shot the flares with melee

[frigid aspen]

will run out if not enough dps

[true talon]

Demonbane weps
Don’t max on them unless it’s mage

[thick beacon]

ye i havint done solos

[sacred skiff]

Range maxes too I think

[thick beacon]

yet

[sacred skiff]

For what it's worth

[true talon]

Range can’t hit 71 though

[sacred skiff]

Nu

[true talon]

Only melee and mage can

[frigid aspen]

not nearly as easily as mage

i think tbow in max gets close if not more

but yeah, mage is the way cus spec wins you a lot of ticks

[sacred skiff]

Maybe I should try out melee for p1/2 then, even gunning for my last 2 rc levels I'll run out of souls eventually

How does melee change the fight vs mage? Can you react to snap attacks and just camp melee pray otherwise?

[frigid aspen]

melee does chip damage

you can force it to mage/range by stepping away on attacks

[thick beacon]

just pray in between melees timing is very chill

ur more likely to miss a snap then ever getting meleed off prayer

[sacred skiff]

Oh melee timing is different than snap?

ig I should just watch a video

[frigid aspen]

if you get familiar with boss attack speed, you can just pray range/mage depending on last special attack and take 2 steps back with run turned on

[thick beacon]

nah it should be same i think

[frigid aspen]

only diff is if you hit the boss with melee, it will follow you around and try to melee you

[sacred skiff]

Lol I have seen that after trying to add in bclaws specs after getting the death charge upgrade

[frigid aspen]

melee protect only halves the damage so it is actually slighly beneficial to force it to mage/range by stepping away

[slender vapor]

Him chasing you down with melee regardless of mage or melee would certainly raise the base floor of yama

[frigid aspen]

inb4 that's a contract

[slender vapor]

I'm 100% convinced there's a contract for the entire fight being enrage mode

I'm wondering which reward gets that one

[lusty patio]

Some* contract difficulty is supposed to be on par with awakened dt2 variants, so this would make sense

[hasty shard]

ye when orbs come out, wait till they're a bit over half charged then get both sigils

[hard axle]

It’s the same as warden p2

camp pray melee, react to fingers

I use the same method for pnm

[sacred skiff]

pnm I usually leave off prayer since p4 makes you do it that way anyway, but I do need to try praying melee more in p2 wardens

[tough nacelle]

my first 5 runs we were meleeing it without demon bane 🙂

i was like wtf people on the oprbs are so hard

meanwhile 6 orbs are spawning

[austere mulch]

Just FYI - the adjustment made to how horn functions with both claws make it not worth using for claws at all. Effectively locking it in to only being useful/worthwhile for elder maul and dwh

For context: Even with horn only buffing the first hit for scythe, it is a more significant buff to scythe expected damage than it is to claws and requires less total spec to use across both players. This is because of how claws uniquely roll for damage with up to 4 chances at accuracy

Aka - this change is effectively the same as not having it work with claws at all

Of the current content in game, with that change, you’re basically only using at sotetseg (which is very annoying to coordinate after the first phase) and Yama

Already niche item nerfed into the ground before it releases. Basically Ralos 2.0 (which they thankfully changed)

[sacred skiff]

Do defense reductions persist between phases for yama? Like once I land 3 ember specs, I should be clawing for the rest of the fight?

[true talon]

Someone said the defense reduction remained perm

But Yama should not gain magic defense in p3

[sacred skiff]

Thanks someone

Yeah I'm gonna try out learning melee p1/p2 and then through p3 as long as donofly works, then maging

[true talon]

P3 maging is way harder than melee

[sacred skiff]

Would rather save my souls for when I get my shadow spoon

[austere mulch]

Yeah there’s a pretty easy way to get back into cycle for melee after pew pewing the minions

Xzaxt has a clip of it on his twitter

[slender vapor]

Donofly doesn't seem that bad to learn tbh

[sacred skiff]

It doesn't, essentially bandos mario kart method with prayer swaps

And they said they weren't going to patch it lol

So bonus

Although idk how they would, it's just a pattern that dodges the shit

[slender vapor]

Yeah

Someone else would figure out how to break it next

I do see how that tech being discovered spooked jagex

[true talon]

They can fix it by having the flares spawn every time you melee the boss XD

[tender harness]

fix it by having Yama meteor if you out range by more than X amount of tiles during a special

[frigid aspen]

meteor every non melee attack in p3 until people realize melee is better

[sullen rampart]

drop rates were added to wiki, looks like its not crowdsources? anyone know the source where they got it

[slender vapor]

Ship it in a contract

👍

[sinful field]

mage chill and more fun for people of a lower skill level like myself

therefore mage better

[slender vapor]

I think anyone with an ounce of raid exp wont struggle with melee yama that much

This tech is broken

[tender harness]

my guess is this was given to them after the nerfs
or it is crowd sourced

[frigid aspen]

you'll be surprised how much easier melee is :D

[sinful field]

ill have to learn it then

[frigid aspen]

give it a go

[slender vapor]

To avoid 2 weeks of rabbid backlash

[tender harness]

1/600 uniques

[slender vapor]

They know their community well

[tender harness]

[frigid aspen]

no falling rocks and shit, gotta say the deatch charge upgrade is massive for it

[tender harness]

doing this solo for 1/600

is cringe as fuck

[sacred skiff]

ok that's a 60% increase, not 30% though lol

[slender vapor]

https://imgur.com/Nrzg8Gr

[sacred skiff]

It was estimated 1/120 for any drop before, now it's 1/200?

[slender vapor]

1/450 before

1/600 now

Apparently

[charred matrix]

That was from lockbox

[sacred skiff]

Oh icic

No spoon in my like 45kc before nerf, unlucky

Actually DC spoon, so p lucky

[hasty shard]

ring of stone tech

[plush gull]

i feel like they deliberately made contracts worse than awakened orbs because they dont want anyone to play the video game content they designed

which makes no sense to me but seems like a thing that is being done for some reason?

[minor whale]

1/150 before
1/200 now for any piece

[slender vapor]

That's a reasonably fair nerf at least

[hasty shard]

real

[slender vapor]

1/200 for yama isn't so bad

[vivid ruin]

I just want death charge upgrade. The rest is just noise

[slender vapor]

Imagine if that worked in pvp

multi pvp would have nearly dead alts just to leech spec from

[charred matrix]

Spec transfer already exists?

[slender vapor]

Oh right, that's actually a thing that exists

[placid furnace]

In the future I’d rather see drop rates start high then come down if appropriate. You mention fomo/abuse early and often on the news post. This rings very true here. Punished for not no life-ing day 1/2 content. Feelsbadman

Couldn’t even leave up over the weekend for regulars to tap. Just the sweats

[slender vapor]

[vivid ruin]

Honestly true. And theres never a situation where everyone is happy

People always gonna bitch either from the casual prospective or the sweat prospective

[shadow fiber]

just dynamically nerf the drop rate if players kill the boss too fast

[slender vapor]

Agreed, reduce loot by 50% by killing 50% faster

That way it balances out

[true talon]

1/200 solo means it’s 1/400 duo to be in your name

[analog crow]

Silly human
Drops are for no life kings and bots, not regular players

[minor whale]

Hate that the wife and kid excuse actually was true this time

[fossil epoch]

indeed, but you are also getting a time thats most likely a minimum of 2x faster kill time

[true talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1330772050779836427/1372775217977622558/image.png?ex=6828000c&is=6826ae8c&hm=3eab22b046c1495a8a3d32dfccedb221662abb117e481b27e98960f2fc1f979e&

My friend suffering on his new iron lol

[fossil epoch]

no mutagen is sad

[true talon]

1/128 btw

[fossil epoch]

spooned on pet though

[slender vapor]

Nearly 1/30x dry?

[true talon]

3 weeks ago he was sub 400 kc and now he’s still there 😦

[fossil epoch]

isent it 1/128 to get a random unique, not to get blowpipe

[slender vapor]

Ah right

[fossil epoch]

its a 1/512 to get specificly bp

[slender vapor]

So just 6x

[fossil epoch]

6x dry is still tough

[slender vapor]

Still brutal

[fossil epoch]

thats what i went on spindel for the ring

[tacit pendant]

For armor that kills torva at many places, being 2-3x more common than torva is fine.

[true talon]

Helm could a buff

[fossil epoch]

Is it a known bug if you get the teleport scrolls from the dossier, it doesnt give the clog?

[hard axle]

Strange considering rite gives you clog, but maybe that’s cuz that’s the only source

[fossil epoch]

perhaps

iron, without the clog, but its in inventory

[formal sentinel]

Is melee p1/2 any harder than mage?
I can't imagine p1 being harder, at least

[small anvil]

Melee is harder cuz you have to swap prayer reactively but that's it

Not like significantly harder

[formal sentinel]

That's not bad. If you melee, then run to beside a glyph in p2, does Yama approach you? Since you kinda gotta be within 2 tiles for his specs in that phase

[small anvil]

Yama approaches unless the person has targeting attacks with mage (probably range too?)

[formal sentinel]

Nice

[prime cypress]

after killing the voice of yama you sometimes tele back 1 tick after the other person, is this on the radar of stuff to fix on wednesdays update?

[sinful field]

extra flicks and needing to run to glyphs, but not much harder overall

[vernal valve]

my hot take is that nerfing rates a little after launch isn't as bad as people are making it out to be

yeah people grinding early have better rates, but they're also usually using worse, slower methods

In theory everyone grinding after the first 2 days have 30% worse rates, in practice, they'll also be doing kills way faster on average than 99% of people grinding day1

[fossil epoch]

it really isent, it just feels bad when you didnt get to abuse early and often

have people in my clan with 200 kills and no armor piece or horn yet, sucks for them
also have people who were massively spooned

[shadow fiber]

except that the reason it was nerfed was because of how quick the kill times were at the top end

[vernal valve]

yeah man, by the end of day 2 as people were optimizing it

and then they were quickly nerfed

😭

[cold berry]

Yeah most people are talking about the oathplate rate but the contract rates seem abysmal, at least from Yama

[vernal valve]

yeah contract rates seem insanely horrifyingly bad

idk what's up with that

[mild saddle]

aren't you assuming that?

i think kills in general were faster than expected

even crappy day 1 mage camp was coming in 10% faster than the stated times we got in the QnA

it seems like either they didn't really QC the final iteration or they were trying way too hard and forgot to just click the boss

[placid furnace]

just more jagex fomo, better take off work and send the family on vacation for any boss releases

[mild saddle]

idk flip a coin, sometimes drop rates get buffed too

doesn't really matter

[naive hound]

I would assume most of the people that were actually doing Yama were the top 1%

[dreamy quail]

Stop weeping that something unintended was fixed in the first 2 days

[mild saddle]

not sure i follow, it's an endgame boss, most people in general doing it should be top %

[placid furnace]

weeping and complaining wildly different homie

[cold berry]

~1500 solo kills on average to get all of the kit contracts from Yama. Then you gotta hope you beat it on the first attempt.

Hoping the demon rates are far better than this, though very weird that Yama isn't the better way to get them if so.

[mild saddle]

because a midgame iron can do it with arclight and purging staff doesn't mean we should design rates around that. emberlight, purging staff, bandos is like 3min duos

3-3:30

or lower if better

[placid furnace]

adam with the novel, he gonna be so mad when i go away and dont read it

[dreamy quail]

Point stands. Drop rates were fixed so Oathplate didn’t become fang.

?

[mild saddle]

yeah nerf is needed, rates on wiki seem fair

[dreamy quail]

Type faster Clem I’m waiting.

[placid furnace]

point stands, play tested the boss, released it, early grinders rewarded.

have fun gamers, sorry i expressed an opinion

[mild saddle]

ah well, better than not fixing it

ideally they nail the rates, it's concerning they missed this much

but as released it needed tuning

[vernal valve]

armor's still gonna tank long term imo

[mild saddle]

tbh yeah

[vernal valve]

making helm notably worse than top+bot is really, really bad

[mild saddle]

it's just too accessible

it'll get toa'd

[austere mulch]

Man, this Soulflame horn is only good with 4 weapons in 3 pieces of content. Be a shame if I nerfed it so it’s only good with 2 weapons, which serve the same function, in only 2 places of content instead

[vernal valve]

means all shards funnel into top+bot

[mild saddle]

did you expect it to use 25% in a duo? i swear we thought it was 50%

but agreed, not working with claws when that was like the whole fun idea

[naive hound]

Rates should be balanced around the average not the top is my point. 1 day is not enough data considering most people were doing it were max cmb/gear

[austere mulch]

Yeah, its 25% per buffed player not including self

[dreamy quail]

It’s end game boss. Balance around end game.

[mild saddle]

i could've sworn the blogs said "per play affected" which it was never clarified if it meant you as well

[sudden bane]

Yeah they said 25% per person not including yourself, so its 100% in a 5 man

[dreamy quail]

Balancing around average Reddit Ironman sounds terrible.

[mild saddle]

i don't think they ever said not including yourself

[austere mulch]

They did word it a bit funny at first and clarified

[mild saddle]

but it doesn't matter

oh they clarified? my b

[austere mulch]

It says that if another player is buffed, you also get buffed

[sudden bane]

They did specify it didn't include yourself

[mild saddle]

they can add claws later if horn needs it ig

[formal sentinel]

Yeah but later grinders have all the tech that gets discovered, which the early grinders didn't have.
So they have a faster kill time with lower drop rate, makes it closer to even than you'd think

[dreamy quail]

Bold to think that clem grinds anything

[placid furnace]

Your profile is buying gf. Stop. Get some help.

[dreamy quail]

Epic meme imo

[fossil epoch]

man just wants a gf

[dreamy quail]

But yeah update to nerf drop rate is good, complainers wouldn’t have hit drop rate anyway.

[fossil epoch]

i both complain and think its ok, and im going to hit droprate

unless i get spooned the greenlog, then im out of course

[naive hound]

Not sure I understand why it needs to be a 75 hour grind instead of 50.

[dreamy quail]

Because it’s a side grade to Torva which is a much longer grind

[fossil epoch]

torva shouldnt be a 200-300 hour grind though

[dreamy quail]

U right

But we live in a nex society.

[naive hound]

It's only a side grade using slash. Everything else and it's a bandos replacement

[fossil epoch]

bandos has better crush defence

[vernal valve]

sidegrade is a weird way of saying "better" 😭

[naive hound]

Better in some places and worse in some places

[vernal valve]

yeah. It's on the same tier as Torva. No idea why we have to pretend it's somehow bandos equivalent just because it's not strictly better everywhere

[dreamy quail]

You use slash a lot of places bro

[fossil epoch]

because whenever we have to use crush or stab, its just bandos armor with other distributed defence stats

[naive hound]

Because using stab and crush means it functions as bandos. You can't slash everything in the game

[fossil epoch]

you do use slash a lot though

[vernal valve]

yeah ofc. And whenever you're not using Crush, Inquis is like mithril armor. That's not really relevant to analyzing how good the armor is, though

[naive hound]

I think it does lol

It's also locked behind a long grind

And people don't use it

[dreamy quail]

Not much is weak to crush and there isn’t a str ring with crush bonus. More stuff weak to slash and bellator exists.

[vernal valve]

inquis is undertuned, but it's still BIS in a bunch of places. The armor's good, it's just not worth the nightmare grind. But nightmare and yama rates aren't even in the same universe, and Oathplate is more generally useful

[naive hound]

I don't think the armor is good

[dreamy quail]

That’s fine. You can be wrong and that’s okay.

[naive hound]

If "bis in some places" means good then there's a whole lot of weapons that are "good" even if they are niche

[green pewter]

Yes thats how it works

[vernal valve]

yeah, they are

[dreamy quail]

That’s true, a lot of weapons are good and niche.

[thick beacon]

soul armor gona be bis for toa/cox 2 raids

[vernal valve]

and Oathplate is much less niche than most good items, lmao

[naive hound]

Inquis is niche

[dreamy quail]

And good

[thick beacon]

even for irons they can use lance on slash for olm

[naive hound]

No one is using it though

[dreamy quail]

I use it

Just because you can’t afford it doesn’t mean other people don’t use it

[thick beacon]

dps calcs been done its new like came out 2 days ago

[naive hound]

Waste of a purchase

[tacit pendant]

If bought at low point yesterday u made out ok

[lament peak]

the drop rate nerf is so depressing, it's probably going to take my duo gim like a month to farm the set now 😭 ihu gagex

[thick beacon]

why do u think armor is bad?

[dreamy quail]

Because he doesn’t know any better

[tacit pendant]

Its better than torva at all the fun places. Sorry nex and toa lovers

Torva is the niche sidegrade 🙂

[vernal valve]

even nerfed rates item is mega good for irons tbh

dry protection for set, lets you skip 2 slow grinds, and BIS weapons for it are very accessible

[dreamy quail]

Senile. Stop spitting, you’re going to flood my phone with facts.

[vernal valve]

(skip with an asterisk ig)

[naive hound]

My point is 50 hour grind seems fine. Stop making things take much longer

[dreamy quail]

You aren’t even giving a reason for anything

[thick beacon]

if ur playing ironman 50hours is nothing

[dreamy quail]

Just “I think x. This seems ok.”

[vernal valve]

bandos greenlog (minus pet) for an iron with bowfa is like 40 hours

50 hours for a torva sidegrade w/ dry protection is clearly overtuned, idk

[naive hound]

Maybe but factor in every grind and the grinds you have to do to get there

[vernal valve]

I think even with current rates the armor's going to tank in price on mainscape and warp the prices of all melee armor along with it

[thick beacon]

i get what u mean but i see this more as a oppertunity then downside i dont have to worry about torva anymore

i can get spec pots/double dc etc for rest of my grinds

[naive hound]

But it's not like you aren't going to nex eventually anyway

[lament peak]

Stop acting like everyone plays at max efficiency 😭 it took us like 1700 kills for 2 bandos sets

[vernal valve]

I mean, anyone sweating enough to greenlog nex on an iron isn't skipping oathplate bc it's not BIS literally everywhere

[naive hound]

I'm also 560 cg and still no bofa

[thick beacon]

its hard to keep up but like idk

every content release gona suck for iron if u view it that way

[vernal valve]

40 hours is already lower efficiency I fear, bandos greenlog is like 900 something kills on rate

iron ehb is like 30 something kc? Pretty sure the nerd rate is around ~30 hours

40-50 hours IS the inefficient, average iron rate unless I've made a mistake somewhere

[thick beacon]

also personally 40-50hours getting multiple items feels decent

its not like 40hours for just enh weapon seed ull get other uniques (from yama)

[naive hound]

Is cg not a near 100 hour grind?

[lament peak]

Greenlog as in pet too? Cause that did not happen for either player

[thick beacon]

its like 50hours i think

[vernal valve]

greenlog minus pet

[vernal valve]

p. sure it's like 60-70

not counting time spent learning

lemme check

[thick beacon]

ye that sounds about right

[naive hound]

60 hours at 9 minutes a kill and that's being generous

[thick beacon]

9mins is tier 3 or tier 2 roleplaying

[naive hound]

I'd say average is slower considering most go at 80 range/mage

And considering fails

All these rates don't even calc deaths...

And people make mistakes at things like Yama/cg

[thick beacon]

ur right ye

[naive hound]

Normalize lower drop rates 😄

[lament peak]

I'm getting 3-3.5 min kills but we're banking every kill because of the saturated heart cooldown. My gim only has 1 and we trade it every 5 mins lol. Should we just skip this step? How many kills are you guys staying for

[frail bough]

If it were me I'd just skip the heart entirely.

Once you get attack pattern + prayers down doing mage, you don't take a lot of damage and are mostly restricted by your prayer

[naive hound]

Also melee is better

[dreamy quail]

Saturated heart helps a lot wym

[naive hound]

Not worth trading it. Just have 1 person use it

[obsidian venture]

Useless at Toa. Good for tob/cox

[naive hound]

He meant tob. Most of us understand

[obsidian venture]

Rng be rnging

[obsidian venture]

How good

Nerfed rates are fine. See too many midgame chatters piping up

And yes I couldn’t grind from the start 👍

[naive hound]

There just needs to be an overhaul of all rates to actually balance things

[meager flame]

im still kinda surprised they went with just nerfing rates lol

they could've slowed it down a ton by just making shard untradable and not like

owning people that haven't been on

[obsidian venture]

It’s fine tbh as it’s 2 days in

[meager flame]

tbh im more surprised that the shards were tradable in the first place tho

[obsidian venture]

Would want them to have low rates on release if anything and adjust as needed

[meager flame]

it seems a little silly in general like

[obsidian venture]

So there isn’t that “abuse early” thing

[meager flame]

the shards existing and being tradable is 101 for getting an incredible supply instantly

[vernal valve]

they really want infernal shale mining to be a good skilling moneymaker, so that's the angle they're coming from

[meager flame]

since everyone can contribute partially instead of needing to spoon a big drop

[vernal valve]

but yeah helm being undertuned + shards being tradable means that the set's gonna tank hard

[meager flame]

idk if shale will ever actually be good money tbh

it seems like its already trending the wrong way

[vernal valve]

it's like 3m an hour now and was like 6m+ a day ago. But yeah no way it doesn't crash into the ground very soon

[obsidian venture]

Odd choices for sure this update

Especially the skill based pet

[vernal valve]

i'm still genuinely baffled by contract rates, idk what's going on with those

[meager flame]

same

although that is easy to fix

just hopefully by the time people are actually able to do them they take a swing at a rate that is even remotely sane

like lol

when i logged off yesterday i was like top 1k easily for yama kills after 2 days

i have 2 contracts

neither for the cosmetic

that is totally unacceptable if you have to keep using them for the cosmetic

thats like awakeners orbs from mod satan

[vernal valve]

even the ones you can "target" grind from the demons in the chasm seem pretty rare

[green pewter]

Getting a contract from a Dossier is about a 1/2, the other half being tele scrolls
That means getting a contract from a yama kill is about 1/40 solo or 1/80 duo, assuming 50/50 contribution.
That makes contracts about as rare as awakener orbs
It really depends on how rare the the ones from demons are

[naive hound]

Can you currently target grind them?

[green pewter]

From the demons yes

[naive hound]

They said that would be the primary way

Is it still ass?

[meager flame]

it seems veryyyyy slow as well

i haven't been doing that but

[green pewter]

We dont know the rates yet but going off the colors on the wiki they're more than a 1/100

[vernal valve]

well, about as rare as awakener orbs, except there's like 11 unique awakener orbs and you're grinding 1 boss for them instead of 4

but yeah

[naive hound]

Idk, I don't like the idea of contracts anyway.

[meager flame]

they need to get a grip if they want us to farm black demons for weeks to put in attempts for a cosmetic

like just typing that out seems insane lol

[slender vapor]

Everyone hates awakeners orbs. Your math just showed they are awakeners orbs, time to riot

[naive hound]

I don't mind contracts for cosmetics but the pet/armor was weird

[meager flame]

i actually have a pet contract

somehow

idk how rare those are

[slender vapor]

Gl practicing

[meager flame]

but they're changing them to only be a buffed chance at pet

i actually have the pet already anyways

i just thought it was funny that

that would be my contract drop

[green pewter]

I guess a good thing is that the dossier has a chance to give you a contract worth much more than the one you want so you can just sell the one you get and buy the one you want

For mains at least

[meager flame]

but yeah idk if they're beating the case when it comes to what people say about rates

[green pewter]

Worth noting that the longer yama exists the cheaper the contracts will get especially the oathplate cosmetic change ones

[meager flame]

tbh i kinda think they're going to have to change those rates

like

the amount of yama i've killed to hardly have any

when they dont have a million people slaying yama people are definitely going to be using more contracts than they're generating

[molten basalt]

I thought they said they changed the dark demonbane fire rune cost

[green pewter]

I seems as thou they havent implemented it yet

[jagged marsh]

thank god for designing things around mains

[obsidian venture]

As it should be 🤝

[meager flame]

i dont even really think its built for mains lol

its gonna be like

"oh you hated awakeners orbs because you had to pay too much to keep playing?"

"well what if they costed 10x more"

[mild saddle]

So the boss is double rounding down for armor shards for duos? That’s gotta be a mistake right?

You get 1/4th the shards you get from solo instead of 1/2 right?

Considering how important shards are to the 75h estimates, feels like an oversight

[obsidian venture]

Yeah no one liked this system

And before release this seemed very similar to it

Should have just have an unlock able feature after x kills, if you choose to do so tbh

Their logic tryna cater gp value to midgame folks really isn’t it, and you can literally use orbs as that example

[true talon]

Loot from the wiki is based on solo player and then amount in duo is based on contribution.

[mild saddle]

See footnotes Tass

[austere mulch]

Funny how drop rates nerfed by about 30%, causing oath chest and legs to go up, but helm still went down day over day because it’s useless item 🤣

[mild saddle]

If 1 applies to both both columns, contribution gets counted twice for shards

[meager flame]

uhh idk if it rounds down or not

[mild saddle]

doesn’t matter tbh

[meager flame]

or if it always does

[mild saddle]

if it’s not 12, you’re getting screwed for duoing

[meager flame]

i feel like i was typically getting 12 total in duos but

i cant say for certain if that was always true

[mild saddle]

wiki could be wrong then

but they’re usually solid on this stuff

it tracks with how many people feel like they’re dry for shards based off rates but maybe they’re just being penalized for duoing due to oversight

if it is double counting, duoing will be a good bit longer to full armor

I haven’t gotten any so idk

[lament peak]

i'm always getting 5 or 6 in duos

depends on contribution, but it might round down, yeah 😦 i wasn't really paying attention

[frail bough]

This just happened in a duo I was watching so seems fine.

[hard axle]

:wedidit:

rates are semi reasonable now

[hard axle]

what's wrong with this?

[frail bough]

nothing just above people were concerned about not getting 12 in duos

[hard axle]

oh

[frail bough]

or maybe i misread idk

[hard axle]

if ur 50% contribution

u get 6

[frail bough]

ye