game-update

[upper ice]

btw who arre you never seen you before

[plush gull]

its really not

[upper ice]

i know its not

dont have to justify myself to some random who ive never seen in here tho

[plush gull]

i also wanna do yama without 20 hours of skilling and questing and i need double death charge for colo

[formal sentinel]

Looks like TD's is over 10m/hour right now due to Synapse being at 85m

jfc

[tacit wharf]

that big money

[plush gull]

so i probably will and by the time i finish i will probably be dead inside
enough to
mindlessly leech duos

[upper ice]

its fine i can just do colo

good thing im avging s19

and dont have to sell anything to do it

[formal sentinel]

It's like double my best moneymaker, but that would assume I get the synapses both:
a) On rate rather than 3-4x like I do for most things
b) While prices are still cranked

[plush gull]

u have tbow and scythe or just tbow?

[upper ice]

both

[tacit wharf]

was luck got all 3 of mine within 500, and just need that last claw to not have to do them anymore

[plush gull]

i dont understand how tds work at all i tried them
on leagues and there was just pale orange everywhere that always seemed to look the same, apparently they have a bunch of invisible mechanica though

[upper ice]

i never did the quest because it looked boring and noob

[plush gull]

i hate quests i regret doing sote it was awful and all the rewards are useless

[upper ice]

kinda salty i culdnt do yama but its not worth

cause all the gear i have went down from the price i bought it at

and the drops are just gonna make me break even

and i have to do a quest

so ye just not gnona do it now

[plush gull]

yeah my bank dropped from like 530m to 400m after yama release

i dont care because i can just do colo but i want double death charge for colo 😭

[upper ice]

idc about the items dropping because im not selling them

im just saying, to do yama i would Have to sell them

and then buy a 90m staff

and then get a 100m split at best from the boss, prolly wont even break even

[tough nacelle]

Yeah someone has

with bluemoon gear

8 min enraged phase lol

please dont do it

[plush gull]

isnt scythe like bis dps tho, you can do it without

[upper ice]

u still need purging staff

[plush gull]

in duos u might get all the contrib and get stuff faster than mage setups

[tough nacelle]

what???

[upper ice]

i think emberlight/purging staff is meta

[tough nacelle]

Song of the elves?

that gives so many good rewards lol

[plush gull]

cuz ull be doing all the dps while they kill orbs

[upper ice]

idk honestly

ive been blocking it out since i cant do it

so idk anything about it

[obsidian venture]

I’ve had like 5 friends do the wgs quest. Double dc is worth

[plush gull]

just find a purging staff duo and kill the boss while they delete orbs and ull get all their loot

[obsidian venture]

Can help out with a purging staff if needed

[upper ice]

is double dc untradeable or nah

[obsidian venture]

Yes

Also you pot Colo, spec pot good there

[upper ice]

fair enough

spec pot good since im just bringing dc runes loose ... can bring aether and spec pot to replace loose soul runes

[obsidian venture]

Send the quest, and get staff. The gear is going to go up as ppl realize how good oath is

Also runes yeah

No need to uncharge shadow

+1 inv

[upper ice]

yeah

[obsidian venture]

So it’s worth for you specifically as it makes the content you enjoy better

[upper ice]

ye but u understand why i was salty tho? idk if u read what i said

[obsidian venture]

I did yeah

And I do get that

[upper ice]

like fuck bro

anything i sell for staff im getting merched

[obsidian venture]

Tds aren’t a bad fight tho ngl, very chill

[plush gull]

meanwhile i dont have a scythe so even if i find a mager duo ill be doing like 5% contrib and not get double death charge 😭

[obsidian venture]

Tbh, it has decent drops, and I’m sure they’ll adjust the table

You’ll make money. I’m barely using food per kill

Mainly sanfews

[upper ice]

ye the boss looks easy in duo

idk the mechs too well tho

havent paid that much attention

[obsidian venture]

Takes a few kills to get down

P1-p2 has a midgame feel, p3 is moreso endgame

[upper ice]

yeah

[obsidian venture]

Anyways, wouldn’t overthink it. Just send and cop stuff

Then pot what you enjoy

[upper ice]

just seeing it be mage only and having all my gear drop and the staff double in price

[obsidian venture]

Didn’t calc oath for Colo, but heard it’d be very ideal to use

[upper ice]

it was like aight im out

[obsidian venture]

Mage only?

Just melee mate

[upper ice]

well day 1

[obsidian venture]

It’s better

[upper ice]

like first few hours

[obsidian venture]

For sure, but I bring a 3 way mage, max melee with emberlight

You can use scythe

[upper ice]

thats cool

ye i heard melee is meta

with 3 way mage

[obsidian venture]

So you’re realistically not missing much

Plus reduced death fees for the first 10 kills iirc

[upper ice]

fine ill stop dooming

ty

[plush gull]

my dooming shall become a world first no WGS no megarare kill and then i can claim im better than everyone that wasnt too lazy to do WGS

[true talon]

Oath was gonna crash torva regardless of what was meta

because its on par or better than torva and nex is a shit boss

[formal sentinel]

My death fees rn as I learn Yama are like 1/8 of supply costs, at most- 15k
Each Sanfew costs more than them

[obsidian venture]

For sure

[meager flame]

i do think people just aren't ready for this

lol

like

i really have no idea how people thought jagex releasing a new bis armor set that was easier to get than the old one

wouldn't crash the price of torva on the spot

maybe they just really didn't believe the dps calcs or something

[true talon]

Im have to go scar ess 10m fire runes

this yama already stole 30k since yesterday

and i didnt even send that many attempts lol

[vivid ruin]

This is gonna be the rapier/fang situation all over again lol

[slender vapor]

Rapier, and rapiers cooler little brother

Torva, and torva's cooler little sister

[meager flame]

i mean pure design wise oathplate is niche the problem is the reality of their work in progress game lol

it was honestly thoughtless to make the slash armor while we had zero competition on slash being the bis melee method in the first place for almost everything

i honestly dont really know what that play was

[slender vapor]

They didn't want inquisitor again

A niche sidegrade nobody uses

[meager flame]

yeah but like lets say

yama dropped a 2 handed crush weapon that was better than scythe on crush weak npcs

or on par and they removed scythe crush style at the same time

now inquisitor is great

and you can easily also add a slash set of armor

after that all you have to do is make crush/slash bosses to keep some level of parity so one of them isn't just running away as the default

they're kinda just not going in a sane order of updates lol

[slender vapor]

Something something crush based demonbane weapon with defense bonus

[meager flame]

and tbh

now that they've done this

im afraid they're going to get super reactive and like

nerf the armor or something

[slender vapor]

Neuter the drop rate

1/3k now

[meager flame]

when really there isn't anything wrong with it how it is they're just releasing things in the wrong order

[formal sentinel]

Even then, depends where it ends up for whether or not that's worth it

[tough nacelle]

is it really that op

[meager flame]

because you scythe almost everything

the chest and legs are typically better than torva for almost everything

and also easier to get

[formal sentinel]

Torva head + Oath body/legs will be BiS with Scythe the majority of the time, and it'll be easier to get

[meager flame]

long term its easily fixable

right now though it looks a little sus

they basically sat there and said "what if we fed the only niche players actually use lol"

[formal sentinel]

It almost seems like Oath exists as a way to get BiS melee armour to not be so much more expensive than ranged/mage, without reworking Nex

[meager flame]

and this is the result

[tough nacelle]

but

isnt that mob depedent

and style

and spec

[meager flame]

yes

the reality of the game though as it stands

is that we swing scythe on almost everything you'd care about

if we melee

[tough nacelle]

araxor

[meager flame]

so the niche is more like the default

[formal sentinel]

Scythe still I think

[tough nacelle]

and I think it depends

on the def of the mob no?

[formal sentinel]

Scythe has crush. You wouldn't Oath there though

[tough nacelle]

thats what im saying

[meager flame]

like you can find exceptions obviously

like toa is a very easy one

[tough nacelle]

Has someone actually

[meager flame]

torva is better for fang

[formal sentinel]

Yeah, if you zero defence enemies, Torva should be better

[tough nacelle]

run all the calcs

[formal sentinel]

Yeah

[tough nacelle]

and said this is better at all these bosses

vs these bosses

[meager flame]

yeah

[formal sentinel]

there's an excel sheet screencap floating around that I didn't save

[meager flame]

that happened like

the day they released the stats for oathplate

[tough nacelle]

what Im wondering though

is it real

like burning claws (ik harder to calc)

[meager flame]

yeah

slash bonus is very straightforward

[tough nacelle]

but those numbers were EVERYWHERE

on whats BIS vs not BIS

and it seems to change hourly

[formal sentinel]

Yeah, it's not damage over time. It's an accuracy/average damage per hit tradeoff

So it's realized on every attack

[tough nacelle]

like at sol

is the damage loss

worth it

what about vardorvis vs trip length

[formal sentinel]

It's not a damage loss

[meager flame]

there are more complex issues with burning claws like time to die vs length of burn

[tough nacelle]

its like 8 str less no?

[meager flame]

just flat bonuses like +accuracy or +strength are very easy in comparison

[formal sentinel]

6, but your average damage per attack is average damage per hit multiplied by accuracy

[tough nacelle]

ik

[formal sentinel]

It's a linear calculation

[tough nacelle]

im saying if its already accurate

the difference is less

vs chip damage thats avoidable with def

that you spend eating

with the def difference

and trip length

[formal sentinel]

Chip damage from def isn't part of this

it's purely your average damage per attack

[tough nacelle]

but it should be, its a decent def difference between the two

[formal sentinel]

Oath body/legs + torva helm gives higher damage per attack in most places than full torva

[tough nacelle]

like at vardorvis, justi is > bandos without blood fury

because banking time

Im just saying Im skeptical of the numbers that get thrown around without doing the calcs myself

not saying its not true,

[formal sentinel]

I feel like you don't understand that. The calcs are ignoring any damage you take

[tough nacelle]

oh I do understand it

[formal sentinel]

purely for the damage you deal

[tough nacelle]

im saying for years

calcs have been misleading because the people that post them

dont do them as they should

or only show a subset of areas

that it actually is better at

like theyll show it without def reduction on a boss

that you would def reduce

for an example

[meager flame]

no this time they were in depth it was showing various combinations of torva and oathplate vs different npcs

at different defense reduction amounts

[tough nacelle]

can I have a link?

[meager flame]

its actually more complicated than simply oathplate chest/legs > torva

but

that is the generalized takeaway for people not trying to think too hard

[tough nacelle]

this is my point, I dont think its as earthshatteringly better

[meager flame]

its in the yama channel somewhere

[tough nacelle]

as people are making it seem

[formal sentinel]

I don't think this is the one I've seen here, and doesn't have all the armour combos, but this was an early one from aquick Google:
https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1jk45tf/oathplate_bellator_beats_torva_ultor/

[plush gull]

btw is gearscape bugged for ancient godsword, it says spec is less accurate than normal hit on yama

[tough nacelle]

yeah this is what I mean

its not really fair

[formal sentinel]

And as I said, less comprehensive than the one I saw here. I don't have it saved, but you're welcome to look around for it if you're curious

[tough nacelle]

I think its worse

at colo

and other areas

I think you should just be cautious

[true talon]

Please get rid of unique contracts oathplate shards and horn. this is not a good idea. to give targetable uniques from a tradeable entry key.

[tough nacelle]

to blindly believe

[tough nacelle]

horn shouldnt be on here

[true talon]

none of it should

it will ruin the price of the uniques

Also 5 contracts for a re-color is kinda what??

thats 5 dif boss fights you need to learn with a worst accusition rate than awakener orbs'

thats even worst than awakener orbs

[formal sentinel]

I'm not sure how I feel about it tbh. Because the horn/plate contracts have a calculated drop rate of 1/2760. Which seems to be multiple times more rare than the plate itself

[true talon]

These contracts are bad and its actually impressive you can make awakener orb system worst lol

[formal sentinel]

Should end up trading for like 80% of the average value of a piece, so those who can complete them consistently can make good money off of it

[formal sentinel]

I mean, best thing to do is always check the recommendation, and run the calcs yourself using them against whatever else you'd consider there...

[minor whale]

Extremely funny they said "This won't be like awakener's orbs"
Looks inside
Awakener's Orbs

[meager flame]

i mean its really easy to run the comparisons too

like

[tough nacelle]

There's mix setup, ultor, Bellator, is it something with full switches vs partial, how much time is saved for each of those, does it affect trip duration for bosses, or is the time saved at one boss slowed down by time lost at another

Something like cox is impossible since the variety of scaling is high

Im not saying mixed isn't better

[true talon]

?why put dragon darts twice and no arrows.....

[tough nacelle]

Im just saying the answer is probably more complex than it seems

And torva will always be useful because of that

I moreso dislike that mixed is ugly af

[meager flame]

no i mean like everyone has a dps calculator on hand that can compare these items in any situation and in any combination

its freely available

like for example

lets say you're going to swing an elder maul at sol as a random npc

if you hit 1 hammer or 0 hammers oathplate chest/legs is better

if you hit 2

torva is .01 dps better

so if you cared about sol dps it would be really easy to see that most of the time your oathplate is better

[tough nacelle]

Im saying the entirity of a dps calculation thats so close is a lot harder to do than just one mob with one gear setup

and when its this close

its not really fair to say it always outclasses torva

im some situations yes, in other situations no

the question should be is

1/360 too common

[true talon]

Issue is that scythe dont lose a max when dropping torva plate/legs

So that accuracy benefit is massive

[tough nacelle]

what about with new boots

[vocal harness]

am i missing something or are the contracts about 15x too rare?

[plush gull]

i was expecting it to be worse than awakeners orbs but tbh the contract system is so janky idk how to even complain about it anymore

smart way to silence negative feedback

[vocal harness]

contracts are about 1/80 from yama, and you need to complete 5 different contracts to get the transmog

thats ridiculously rare

[hard axle]

the issue is jagex is allergic to giving scythe its well deserved stats so when we get any crumbs, it feels massive

[formal sentinel]

I can definitely agree on disliking Awakener Orb style mechanics, but I haven't actually found an instace where they said contracts wouldn't be like that. Quite the opposite- every early comparison they do for contracts is with awakened bosses. The only one they say it's not like is Invocations.
The closest thing I can find to denying that that's what they'll be like is in the "Contract: A Primer" blog, where they say they share some similarities, but have [X] differences, where they list the diffs

[plush gull]

just delete contracts, ill spend my entire bank on contracts before theyre deleted with no compensation if thats what it takes to justify it

[vocal harness]

these contracts are like the worst possible implementation

[hard axle]

shadow and tbow getting acc/damage that translates into big dps increase? no problem

scythe 2 max hits AND accuracy?

[meager flame]

tbf

[tough nacelle]

legit though

this doesnt seem that op

[meager flame]

scythe is basically overused at this point

lol

[hard axle]

its exactly like awakener orbs, which is why people didnt want it to be the only way to get pet

[meager flame]

tbow is the megarare sitting in the dark somewhere

without content to do

[plush gull]

they said they learned but anyone with critical thinking abilities immediately knew that was objectively false since they havent addressed awakeners orbs yet

if they actually learned i would already be able to 1 HP dh awakened vard without spending 10k usd a month…

[formal sentinel]

Yeah I was thinking this boss would be a ranged one due to that

[tough nacelle]

tbow is doodoo for bossing atm

even in normal cox

shadow beats it LOL

[true talon]

only difference is yama is only one who drops contracts but its 1/80. you can go farm them on minions but i bet its not a good method. you need 5 contracts to re-color the armor which is more than orbs and they said each contract fight is different. so you need to learn 5 dif yama encounters with 1 entry fee. they actually made it worst than awakener orbs which is impressive.

Also targetable uniques is cringe as fuck

[formal sentinel]

1/40

I'm not saying it's a good system

[vocal harness]

i honestly dont hate targetable uniques

if those contracts are crazy rare, they're good value secondary drops

[plush gull]

how much are contracts selling for

[formal sentinel]

I'm saying don't make up reasoning or situations. Use the ones that exist

[true talon]

1/69 from a 1/40 drop. so whatever rate that is.

[formal sentinel]

1/2760

[vocal harness]

loool

i have no idea how they messed up droprates this bad

contracts should have been 1/5 at worst

[hard axle]

reminder that awakener orbs could've been 6-10x drop rate for pet/uniques without issues since it's 4x hp on average

[formal sentinel]

Low enough to not really affect the overall droprate of oath pieces at least

[plush gull]

ngl im less mad about not being able to do awakened yama only because yama doesnt look that interesting anyway

i just want death charge so i can go back to colo but its untradeable and yama is hell with no mega/wgs 💀

[formal sentinel]

Yeah, contracts for cosmetic at 1/1380 and needing 5 is ridiculous

At the very least, better be just a more punishing version of other contracts, or combine the changes from 2 other contracts so you can use others to practice for them

[vocal harness]

absolutely wild that they didnt make the pet contract untradeable. The contract drop rate about 20-100x higher.

The fact they hotfixed the pet on release day is wild to me

[true talon]

Ya i woulda left pet alone. but i understand how mad pet hunters can be, but ofc if you got all pets you are good enough to prob get the yami pet.

since the zuk pet isnt really that easy to obtain or the colo pet

[vocal harness]

toggle drop rates if you must, but presumably they had a boss fight prepared for that pet that they just threw out after 8 hours?

[plush gull]

arent zuk and sol pets the easiest in the game to get

what is average time compared to others

even without trading quivers and no megas so 25 min runs, and some deaths, sol pet is 100 hours

[hard axle]

sol is about 33 hours if you do deathless 100 kc

im being generous with ~20 minute each kill

[plush gull]

bruhh i have over 100 kc and i can hardly push 22 min with my 200m setup

i have pet already tho

zuk pet probably gonna be my 2nd pet

what are other pets like tho arent they like 1 in 5000

[plush gull]

are tama clntracts disabled flr ge exchange?

[hard axle]

72 kc death charge

now im waiting for RL to update their widget

and cooldown tracker

[plush gull]

is it bugged?

[hard axle]

not tracking atm

because the text changed

[plush gull]

i just use the 100 tick cooldown

oh :(

[hard axle]

https://i.imgur.com/K4kdVWI.png

I want to say this is how they're going to track whether it's 1 vs 2 death charges

[obsidian venture]

Replace S with O

Most stuff was calced. Further stuff will over time or if they make adjustments to the bonuses

If we got +7 on the new boots from delve, it’d be less mixed sets

[austere mulch]

Some of this stuff is wrong/needing to be updated or needing more context

Eg. 5man cm, bis TOT

But good general guidelines at least

[obsidian venture]

Yeah no doubt. Boris sent this way back

TOT 😭

[austere mulch]

Tater tot 5s 😭

[obsidian venture]

[sullen island]

this just default yama wiki? mine still just says rare

[austere mulch]

did we ever get any further word on horn not working with bclaws or dclaws?

outside on it being brought up to the team

[formal sentinel]

Click on the box drop

[pastel onyx]

Oathplate is just bandos with a slash accuracy bonus

[cursive vector]

Is the scarcity of contracts intended or an oversight? Shit barely drops from demons, I thought the whole point was for these 5 to be somewhat common

[meager flame]

i honestly dont even know what they were thinking with contracts

i got one that lol

if it works as described in game just gives you the pet if you complete it

although it looks like they're going to change it to just be a % chance

[cursive vector]

either option sounds terrible for the pet ngl

also for the armour pieces

[sinful field]

it feels like oathplate and contract rates are backwards lol

[warm yacht]

were twitcher gloves clue rates nerfed with this most recent update or did i get spectacularly unlucky while afking redwoods all day and only receive two beginner clue nests 👀

[ember token]

bad luck

[ivory sapphire]

The way they worded in blog be4 release made me believe they would be way more common, but this shit is so much rarer than awakeners orbs

[lament peak]

The lack of prayer bonus is notable though

Is anyone else just camping pray range on p3 Yama? I can't be asked to swap with everything else going on lol. You take the occasional 30 from a mage hit but you rarely need to eat before he's dead

[shadow wave]

If you're camping magic gear that's probably correct if it means you don't drop ticks eating

[meager flame]

i mean its not

the mechanics are spaced out so that you can swap your prayers then do the next thing

a reasonable pace of learning for most people is taking 0 damage from his regular auto attacks off prayer and never getting hit by waves

and then figuring out how to not take fireballs in the couple of questionable overlaps during a solo p3

i imagine a lot of people probably dont have it setup to know how to always dodge every fire wave

[lament peak]

I normally take 0 damage from fireballs and waves I just have trouble keeping track of his attack style while doing so

[meager flame]

the fireballs and the waves are probably the least threatening thing that can happen so you probably want to choose to do one of those not so great if anything

and the waves are always exactly the same

as are the auto attacks

so if you can figure out a place to stand to walk through each wave and alternate your prayers those mechanics are just gone

the fireballs can be a little hard depending on exactly which direction they're in relative to how you're dodging waves

so that one is probably just going to cause people to mess up a little bit

so if you're gonna like plan to mess part of it up

might as well let it be a couple of those overlaps since it doesn't happen tooo much

also the first regular attack in p3

is the opposite of what you have to pray against starting p2

seems like a lot of people haven't caught that yet and kind of try to react to the first prayer swap

[hasty shard]

you do have time to react to it at least

is it a situation like hydra where it'll still swap if he doesnt actually attack after/during a special?

[meager flame]

as far as i can tell nothing will make him stop alternating in p3

and its always the opposite of what you protect against to start p2

so the start of p2 basically tells you exactly what will happen if you can remember lol

i honestly type it into chat sometimes because i might just not pay attention/forget

[plucky roost]

Has anyone tried to do phase 3 with one person using melee (so that he doesn't do the area-of-effect attack) and the other person on magic to kill the void flares?

[fossil epoch]

yes, already seen guides on that

[plucky roost]

I see a lot of people saying "just do phase 3 in maxed mage". But in theory, that makes it harder. Because he does the AOE if someone isn't meleeing him. Thanks.

[hasty shard]

oh starting

good to know

[lament peak]

Duoing phase 3 with even pre-bis (blue moon) mage usually has the encounter ending before the crazy enrage waves anyways

Like consistent ~3-3.5 min kills

[meager flame]

yeah its because the purging staff is almost as good as the shadow like

its not quite as good but they're basically the same item

so anyone with a purging staff is going to get pretty close to ideal relaxed mage camp times

[hasty shard]

you may as well camp purging staff over bringing shadow anyways

[tardy kernel]

Yes melee the boss and the partner mages the orbs

[lament peak]

I'm gonna guess oathplate is like 1/512, I'll be at this boss for weeks 😭 I've only got 40-45 plates in like 60 kills

[tardy kernel]

No pet?

[lament peak]

Ofc not lol

[fossil epoch]

"Reduce the number of Fire runes that Demonbane spells consume, while also increasing the quantity of Fire runes dropped by Yama himself."

[green pewter]

Looking at the demonbane spells, maybe make the superior one cost 1 death instead of 1 soul rune. Idk seems kinda strange it goes from 1 chaos to 1 soul on the upgrade

[chrome nova]

Nerfing droprates why exactly? Not very fair tbh, merchers will make off, and it's not even bis at most places

[fossil epoch]

Yeh currently its the same price (soul wise) to cast Dark Demonbane and a shadow charge

[shadow wave]

I mean they literally give all the justification in the article

[winter hearth]

Longevity, reasoning from the team is outlined in the post!

It's still (imo) a very reasonable rate for how insanely strong the armour is

[shadow wave]

It did feel a touch to common with contracts as well

[chrome nova]

Yeah and I'm just saying I don't agree with it. Changing droprates after content is released is generally a bad thing

[chrome nova]

Oh I hadn't thought of that tbh

[winter hearth]

Leaving drop rates forever and then needing to change them way down the line or having stuff just be unhealthy for ages is arguably worse, we're historically not great at acting fast on problems like this and need to be more comfortable with it if we've not gotten stuff right

[chrome nova]

I guess it's fairly minor at the end of the day

[topaz prairie]

Drop rates are already pretty bad in duos because of the contribution mechanic, and now you just intend to make them far worse...

So basically, we were punished for doing an endgame DUO boss in duos, while contracts showed it was truly meant to be a solo boss... And now it's made all the worse.

So with the split, based on the blog post, we're looking at 75 hours solo, 150 hours duoing... The endgame duo boss?

[fossil epoch]

Glad i got my first kc's today, so that i was just in time to get reduced rates 🙂

[dull portal]

we just gonna pretend that 100 tallow per drop is not an issue

pots 1k ea xD

[shadow wave]

I mean they're untradable so once made that's the GP lost from the economy forever. Making them pretty common seems fair in that regard

[fossil epoch]

It doesnt double for duos? the kill time in duos is also way faster than in solos?

[dry pond]

Jagex try not to fumble a boss release challenge failed immediately

[chrome nova]

Don't you do it twice as fast in a duo tho

[quaint oar]

Aren't solo times like 5min-ish now after the Donofly tech

[winter hearth]

Duos are still better loot/hr than solos for mechanical and loot table reasons, but I don't think your logic here lines up? If you're in a duo doing 50% damage, you're getting kills twice or more than twice as fast, and rolling twice as many times per hour - it should still be around the same TTC regardless of soloing or duoing

[still sundial]

definitely good choice to change things like droprates now. it would feel worse the longer they'd wait to nerf them

[fossil epoch]

wr duo atm is 2min 5 seconds

[chrome nova]

I mean, that seems standard, a bit costly even, for herblore secondaries. Also costs torstol. Aldarium being so expensive is really more just a testament to how overpriced it is

[chrome nova]

What does donofly mean

[remote sphinx]

thank you jagex for helping me profit. just bought set about 2mins before blog

[dull portal]

i have a lifetime supply on the iron after 100kc, feels way too cheap & common for what it offers

[fossil epoch]

its a way to melee without being in melee combat, basicly

[chrome nova]

I've seen it but what are they doing, is it just the preemptive shadow cast or is it the dodging the fireballs

[fossil epoch]

so you get the best of both worlds of the mechanics

[chrome nova]

Wait what

Wtf

How

[quaint oar]

It's a butterfly basically

[fossil epoch]

Its very much like the running methods of gwd

[quaint oar]

Similar to how you butterfly akkah

[chrome nova]

Eh. At the end of the day a venator bow does the same thing and more

[dull portal]

huh

venator bow & spec pot related how?

[chrome nova]

Oh, I hate those, rip

[chrome nova]

Not necessary tho

[chrome nova]

Ohhhh sorry my brain thought you meant aldarium

[dull portal]

😛

true

that makes more sense

[dry pond]

"Ultimately we want to make sure both pieces of content remain enjoyable and profitable in the long-term."

Name 1 person who enjoys Nex

[chrome nova]

Degenerate gamblers

[dull portal]

nex drops are extremely overvalued imo

kinda crazy torva sitting so high for how common it is

[chrome nova]

Yep

[dry pond]

Jagex have straight up dropped the ball and booted it into the river with this update

[chrome nova]

1/43 for uniques from nex

And the most common one is one of the best

[fossil epoch]

Really dont want to have to go to nex on iron thats for sure

[chrome nova]

Wait isn't nihil horn second most common

[chrome nova]

Think of it this way. You don't want another Moons of Peril, where every hour spent using them means half an hour of doing the content they come from

Zulrah too

Also ToB for blood vials

Also thieving vyres for blood fury

[dull portal]

I do tho for the most overpowered thing added to the game

[chrome nova]

Also doing Colosseum for splinters except that you can corrupt it

[winter hearth]

Think a big factor for Nex stuff being so expensive is also that a lot of people just really don't enjoy Nex. It's an insanely good and consistent moneymaker but isn't done by many because they don't like the boss

[chrome nova]

It's only busted in PvP, death charge upgrade is stronger

[trail moon]

idk if it is already known, but i got a clip of me tping from yama (and being on the home sweet home poh loading page) and got pulled back into yama minions

[winter hearth]

Is mentioned in the list on the post

[trail moon]

ok cool

[chrome nova]

Also can't believe they put Nex in the game and didn't reduce the chip damage from RS2 Nex

[chrome nova]

Wonder how many hcim deaths will be caused by this

[dull portal]

it's also insanely strong & useful in every aspect of pvm

like, theres nowhere u wouldnt always use it on cooldown

[ember token]

it's the first thing at the very top of the list in fact :p

[dull portal]

especially like 500 toa nofood, or speed kills at any boss

[chrome nova]

Honestly I hate how quiver is arbitrarily charged. Imagine if you had to charge your infernal cape lol

[sudden bane]

you can still get stolen out of the home sweet home screen by the melee grotesque guardian lol

[dull portal]

dont give them any ideas 👀

[chrome nova]

Certain areas if you aren't good at supply management

[chrome nova]

Wait really? Lol

[fossil epoch]

@winter hearth The contract i made with Yama said that i had to pay 1 year of my soul per death, but it seems like im also paying a fee to collect my items after my death, this wasnt in Yama's contract.
Could we get a Lawyer to null the contract once we are done?

[sudden bane]

im just saying stuff idk if it still happens, i know it could happen and i know they never mentioned fixing it

[dull portal]

each death at yama permanently removes 1hp

[chrome nova]

"Welcome to Nightmare Mode"

[sudden bane]

-1 million hp xp

[wheat mirage]

@winter hearth is the number of oathplates needed hotfixed from 7 to 9 allready?

[ember token]

Since they're fixing the chasm of fire scroll having the wrong icon in the master scroll book, I hope they fix the colossal wyrm scroll also having the wrong icon in the scroll book, because that's been bothering me since it was added

[fossil epoch]

would be nice, doubt it

probably 2 different teams work

[pastel onyx]

Well they already murdered Torva so that part of the post was funny to me

[ember token]

surely they notice it while fixing the chasm of fire scroll

[sand gazelle]

Is loot rate nerf for yama live now?

[ember token]

yes

[dull portal]

i thing to keep in mind is
1 barrel is 100 pots
300 doses of pots + few extra from ammy
1500 minutes of pvm usage from 1 drop

[sand gazelle]

Dangit I am sad

[winter hearth]

should have been

[chrome nova]

What's the droprate tho

[ember token]

@winter hearth ^^

[sand gazelle]

I’ve had to work all week and haven’t gotten many kills with the “too high” rates 😢

[winter hearth]

have made a note but imagine that's for a separate team to tackle

[dull portal]

1/15 or something

[sand gazelle]

Any impact on the rate of the armor shards?

[ember token]

its the same issue as the chasm of fire scroll so should be fixed in the same way

[winter hearth]

Shards obtained at the same rate, but need more to make Oathplate. The jump from 7 -> 9 Infernal plates is less than 30%, so technically Shards are a little 'stronger' than they were before relative to getting the drop, but marginally

[charred matrix]

Hey Goblin, don't know where else to post this, but I went to read the fletching poll questions on osrs webpage because can't log in right now, but I see current polls aren't there, its fine. but there is link to old dead jagex forums which could use refreshing. https://i.imgur.com/jRf8tIG.png

[dry pond]

Are you referring to the "average duo" for your "75 hour" grind? Where has this number come from?

[winter hearth]

It's content that was made by a different team and likely isn't worth the Yama team spending time doing if they could be working on Yama, have got a note of it made

[icy relic]

We've gotten 18 shards in 90 kc

[sand gazelle]

Okay thank you goblin. I really want that armor, so I’ll stop selling now haha. Thank you.

[winter hearth]

avg. duo or avg. solo, should work out roughly the same for both (though I think duo is still better, and has other tertiary/regular loot systems that make its GP/hr comparatively higher regardless, outside of mechanics that duos benefit from)

[ember token]

interesting to know that's how things work internally at least

[dry pond]

But are you using a figure of an average kill being 4 minutes, or 3 minutes, or 5 minutes as this can drastically alter the "completion time", Is that 75 hours 500 kills, is it 1000 kills etc

[sand gazelle]

What is considered “avg duo” with most of my partners we were getting like 4-4:30 kills. Is that slow compared to the day 3 meta? Lol

[calm matrix]

Average we got last night was 2:35-2:45

[sand gazelle]

And we had max mage with purging staff

[calm matrix]

pb of 2:28

[winter hearth]

I would say this is probably on the slower end, but how far away it is from the mean will change when mega gamers spread themselves out across more content again most likely

[calm matrix]

But hit 2:29 a few times so it’s quite consistent

[dry pond]

People getting sub 2:30 kills are all min maxing, whereas people getting 3:30-4:00 are just vibing. If the "optimal" kills are 75 hours, that's 150 hours for a casual player

[sand gazelle]

Holy molies there is so much room for me to grow 🤯

[calm matrix]

2:30 kills is chill

Watch melee guide and recline mode begins

[winter hearth]

Fight with a lotta opt-in depth/complexity, have fun building up to it!

[chrome nova]

Melee kills are not "recline mode" lmao

[vivid ruin]

Im happy to see oath drop rate increased significantly

[dry pond]

So 3 minute kills, lets say 15-18 kills per hour with banking. 1300-1400kc to green log without pet?

[chrome nova]

Harder than sol heredit

[keen hinge]

Make surge pot not reset on deaths in cox 👍

[calm matrix]

It is unless you’re the tank 😂

[chrome nova]

Although Sol isn't a very hard boss all things considered. Just memorization

[chrome nova]

Yeah which you randomly are or aren't half the time, no?

[winter hearth]

This is a bold statement

[chrome nova]

Or is it like gwd where first to attack it is the tank

[sand gazelle]

I’m curious now how the expected hour grind is calculated. Getting a single ultor ring from vardorvis took me 3775 kc which was like a year and a half in dad time

[vivid ruin]

Sol is probably the easiest part of col if you memorize his moves lol

[winter hearth]

In fairness that is depressingly unlucky

[calm matrix]

Well you’re not it for the full fight. P3 doesn’t matter too much either one side is guaranteed tank on that

But melee seems better to me when you wave skip etc

[charred matrix]

I would have preferred plates requiring more shards rather than more plates for items because of the long smithing process, but that's just opinion

[calm matrix]

Haven’t tried the new tech yet to prevent orbs tho

[chrome nova]

I don't wanna burn all my Arclight charges lol, when I get a synapse it's being a purging staff

Purging staff better dps with the gear I have access to anyways lol

[calm matrix]

Purging staff is op there if you aren’t orb skipping anyway

[chrome nova]

Wtf is orb skipping

[sand gazelle]

Is the 75 hours based on the assumption you keep all the armor shards and by that point get either the full set drop OR craft it yourself?

[calm matrix]

You butterfly on p3

[chrome nova]

Is it like skull skipping?

[chrome nova]

Oh with melee?

[calm matrix]

Yes

[chrome nova]

Wtf

[charred matrix]

Apparently if you take fire and shadow glyphs you blcok orb dmg also

[chrome nova]

Yeah no I ain't doing that lol

[chrome nova]

Oh interesting

[calm matrix]

Correct but no glyphs on p3

[shell fossil]

reading #game-news message just drained the motivation to go to yama, perfect update for the weekend

[vivid ruin]

Oathplate drop rate nerf was needed

[quaint flume]

Infernal shale should definitely benefit from mining enhancers. The logic of “oh well we balanced it around you not having them so you don’t need to grind for them” makes about as much sense as if demonbane weapons didn’t work on Yama because “you get them from somewhere else”.

[charred matrix]

If you activate all 5 glyphs you drop tactical nuke metorite on Yama instead

[shell fossil]

it's not like they dont have play testers, it's not like the rates where bugged and was 10x as likely, when contant is droped, unless bugged dont change things imo

[vivid ruin]

At the rate it was going, oathplate was going to be more affordable than inquisitors in a long run, being that it was easier to get. I dont think that was their goal

[sand gazelle]

Can I ask if anyone knows- is the droprate for uniques in a duo contribution based or is it the same rate as long as yama dies? Like I know if you do more damage you get more share of the battlestaves/rune chainbodies etc

[tender harness]

Ah yes abuse early and often wins again

[shell fossil]

and what about bandos?

[quaint flume]

It’s like two days of killing the boss. Not all that much time to abuse

[shell fossil]

the gear is simular so shouldnt the grinds be simular then?

[sand gazelle]

I think we don’t want oathplate to end up like osmumten’s fang

[dry pond]

Then they should have learned from say....the fang?

[shadow fiber]

I'm not a fan of "donofly" being endorsed by jagex, it has skill expression but it dramatically increases your dps and massively reduces engagement with the boss, reduced engagement is never a good thing

[dry pond]

And realized during testing the drop rates. rather than nerfing it 2 days later

[vivid ruin]

Bandos doesnt have any attack bonus, and oath has double the str bonus

[tender harness]

Here's a wild thought then perhaps don't start with high rates then and swing so far the other way
It kills incentive to stay

[shell fossil]

it has the same str 🙂

[vivid ruin]

Exactly

[shell fossil]

bandos chest vs oath chest, when useing the stab/crush, bandos is 9/10 times better

[dry pond]

Why would they learn from their mistakes

[calm matrix]

People too used to every update hand feeding them drops and supplies

[dry pond]

Not the case at all. If the nerfed rates were there on release it would be a different situation entirely

[fringe mist]

Are Forgotten Lockboxes being changed too?

[calm matrix]

They’ve seen an issue and acted no?

[dry pond]

It's just incompetence to not have recognised that issue during testing

[quaint flume]

Idk hueycoatl had awful drops on release and I still have a negative opinion on the drop tables even though they’ve been buffed since. Either way they’ll upset people but balancing the game is their job and they should do it asap

[calm matrix]

They have been trying to sort drops out and still trying to find a sweet spot

[dry pond]

Be better at your job

[calm matrix]

They’re not going to randomly get it fully correct each release

It went wrong with dt2 stuff and they admitted that

[tender harness]

This boss isnt muspah so that comment already is wrong
But its easier from a player perspective to digest that okay drop rates are too low they're buffed verse we made them too high and nerf

[dry pond]

Most employers would expect you to get your job right most of the time

[vivid ruin]

Its incompetence to not release perfect content every single time

[calm matrix]

But they don’t want another zulrah muspah toa situation

[pastel onyx]

Oath has a helm in the set lol... it's thr and strength bonus per piece that can be compared

[shell fossil]

bandos + faceguard beats oath when not useing slash. so shouldnt we make bandos less common aswell to the same point? if we are to go of the what they wrote in the latest update.

[charred matrix]

The play testers are doing what maybe 500 kills or 1000 lets be generous. 1st day after release there are what 400 000 kills and tons of mega gamers pushing kill times as low so ofc they get more data after release on what the real average kill time will be...

[quaint flume]

Balance on a drop table isn’t exactly the same thing as passing all your regression tests

[calm matrix]

Not releasing content will only annoy the people moaning about it being nerfed as they want content

[vivid ruin]

I noticed what i did. Still bandos has 0 slash bonus or any attack bonus for the matter

[tender harness]

Huey is a horrid example, this isnt end game, and the loot is largely irrelevant and was even during design

[dry pond]

So does it need more testing? The issue seems to have come from kills being a lot quicker than they anticipated

[calm matrix]

Because people have mastered this game now

[shell fossil]

but it got prayer and higher stab/crush/range defence.

[fringe mist]

Bro you cant even spell so your negative feedback shows Jagex they made the right decision

[vivid ruin]

I feel like comments like this are just trolling

[charred matrix]

I my opinion, no. No amount of testing could have realistically seen all the tech players come up with

[shell fossil]

?

[quaint flume]

It’s my personal experience with a boss that had the opposite experience as “abuse early” mentality. I’d say it’s entirely relevant to my point that it’ll make people upset either way so just let the jmods balance after getting more data.

[vivid ruin]

No one ever cares about defense

[fringe mist]

Its similar*

[pastel onyx]

Exactly

[fringe mist]

the more you cry the more you prove jagex right

[calm matrix]

They’ve seen too many drops so have balanced it better, clearly not thinking high enough of the community being able to slap kills out this quick

Holds value for longer

[shell fossil]

yet you are the one crying for miss spelling xd

[fringe mist]

Misspelling*

[calm matrix]

When you do get a drop now atleast it’ll be worth more 👀

[shell fossil]

it's about objectivly being better or not

[shell fossil]

point made

[vivid ruin]

Higher attack bonuses is objectively better

[shell fossil]

it's gonna help my fang alot 🙂

[pastel onyx]

The places Torva outperforms Oathplate is also shockingly minimal... I think Torva needs a boost to it's strength bonus

[vivid ruin]

Why do we need to boost fang even more than it already is

[shell fossil]

prayer -> attack bonus that dont affect your weapon

[dry pond]

The problem with farming torva is nex just isn't fun

[tender harness]

This is wrong. This just helps stabilize the price.

[dry pond]

It's brew chugging simulator

[shell fossil]

was an example.

[vivid ruin]

It is and always has been a slash based set

Inquish is crush

[tender harness]

So then are we deleting crush on scythe?

[vivid ruin]

Wat

[pastel onyx]

It should still be stronger than oathplate and it's not for most of the content where it would actually be used

[dry pond]

I think Torva trumps anytime you use overloads or not slash

Which isn't that many cases

[pastel onyx]

Exactly

[shell fossil]

inq got the crush weapon to go along with it, oath dont. All im saying is, droping a 30% nerf on something that should have been play tested and wasnt bugged is bad

dosnt matter the contant

[dry pond]

So buff torva

Slightly buff the accuracy, not the str

[tender harness]

1 pc torva 2 pc oath is going to predominantly be the path forward

[sand gazelle]

It’s refreshing to see a boss I actually like killing that drops armor I want, unlike nex where you just have to suffer through it

[fringe mist]

Doesn’t* matter the content*

[dry pond]

they kinda dug themselves into a hole

[fringe mist]

Jagex is reading your feedback and noting that this is the opinion of people who can’t spell

[compact flicker]

Can’t*

[shell fossil]

bro you are just being toxic, is this not the reason there are <@&385422009930219520>

[calm matrix]

People just love to moan get back into the boss and get the nerfed armour drop

[vivid ruin]

Im happy gegix moved fast with this, because ive been saying since release that we're clearly looking at another fang/rapier situation.

[fringe mist]

Im just saying if you want to make an articulate point, you should probably take the time to spell basic words correctly so your feedback is actually taken seriously

[compact flicker]

I got blowlpipe the day before it got nerfed, so let me get scythe and it will take a day

[noble vortex]

[shell fossil]

and not everyone have english as there native langues

[fringe mist]

You’re just ragging Jagex anyways, i think they really are doing a great job

[tender harness]

Has*

[fringe mist]

They just want whats best for the game

[noble vortex]

Can’t assume everyone’s first language is English guys, let them be.

[fringe mist]

Ok

[dry pond]

whats best for business*

[jovial sentinel]

or on mobile and hitting wrong keys. like, mispelling is not a big deal

[fringe mist]

Sorry i was pandering because snitchllis pinged the mods on me

[shell fossil]

yes and they are also asking for feedback no? if i see something i think is a bad update then it will be voiced

[vivid ruin]

Ill be the first to say that spelling + internet never went hand in hand. We used to say "u" for you and "y" for why

[jovial sentinel]

y was just yes though

[fringe mist]

I think they should buff oathplate to compensate

[dry pond]

Whats that saying, you speak english because it's the only language you know. I speak english because it's the only language you know

[fringe mist]

And thats not because i bought 1 hour before drop rate nerf

[vivid ruin]

Y r u following me

[tender harness]

Its wild to me, jagex either over does it with drop rate and nerfs the shit out of it, or they under do it and still don't buff it enough or if at all

I just dont get it

[vivid ruin]

I feel like it should have a few more points in str tbh

[fringe mist]

Forgotten lockboxes and dossiers ! ? ! Help !?!?!? Are the rates the same ?!?!

[vivid ruin]

Im not sure if those are uniqe drop table

[compact flicker]

I probably would have done Nex a lot earlier if the drop rates were more realistic

Kinda sometime for the pipeline much later after getting a bunch of other things first

[fringe mist]

Id rather them nerf it after a couple dates rather than it be so dry on release that it becomes dead content

[tender harness]

You shouldn't ever have to nerf it

Buffing it is one thing

Nerfing is indicative of other problems

[compact flicker]

Nex rates are nuts, yet it remains popular

[fringe mist]

They should learn towards abuse early abuse often because it incentivizes people to do content on release which is just absolutely jumping for the vibes

[tender harness]

People want to engage with the content, people will be less likely to engage if it turns into drop rate nerfs a day later

That's not fun as a player and it is disincentivizing to actually bother with the content if they'll just nerf it

[fringe mist]

They weren’t expecting people to be such gamers

And doesn’t that mean youll panic do content before it gets nerfed?

[left atlas]

The inverse is also true, if things are bad early and expected to be buffed later then people won't engage in the content until much later

[tender harness]

But they dont

[vivid ruin]

Meanwhile tormented synapse is 100m each. Ez farming

[fringe mist]

I feel so happy i grinded on release pre nerf

[tender harness]

Look at PNM the buffs still make that no where near enjoyable

[fringe mist]

Im like euphoric

Yeah if they buff it its a slap in the face to all who put in effort

[dry pond]

abuse early abuse often

[fringe mist]

Whereas if they nerf drops it rewards early birds

Nobody gets fucked except the people who took their sweet time which is expected in this world

[vivid ruin]

Plates being tradeable is a plus tbh

[slender vapor]

Was yama drops actually nerfed?

[vivid ruin]

Yes

[fringe mist]

No

[tender harness]

Yes

[vivid ruin]

Well

[fringe mist]

We are all larping

[vivid ruin]

Uniques

By 30%

[tender harness]

Uniques took a nerf bat
But do notice how when they buff drop rates its no where near the same value for when they nerf it

[reef shale]

Wtf jagex im 100kc in with no drops and you increase the drop rate? This is garbage

[true talon]

Massive L nerfing the loot and not changing the fight at all to have better QOL

[vivid ruin]

Goodmorning fellas

[true talon]

Also no buffs to the base loot which are fucking terrible. please remove supply drops

[sage latch]

what

[tender harness]

Nerf the uniques
Keeps sweaty butterfly method
Solo qol is non existant

Why does this not suprise me

[sage latch]

why should a duo boss have solo qol

[reef shale]

Right lets make the grind 30% longer because people like none monkey can do it in 2 mins this is stupid AF

[fringe mist]

Patch butterfly fast

[reef shale]

Gnome*

[fringe mist]

Its not really a glitch or a bug

[true talon]

I was getting sub 3 min kills with my duo........ and we wasnt even doing the no fly. we just hit the boss with melee and did a 3 way mage swap to spec out the jellyfish. at first i was doing this solo and you can spec a jellyfish switch back melee an hit boss an repeat without losing an attack.

[tender harness]

Blud you do know contracts are solo right. For a duo boss

[sage latch]

yea

[true talon]

Contracts look like absolute awful content. the rate of obtaining a contract is over 1/40 for the book an then a seperate roll of up to 1/2970

[sage latch]

i've only done it solo and dont see what needs to be changed

[tender harness]

Do a duo

[fringe mist]

You can kill minions for contracts

[sage latch]

i honestly think they should remove the boss

[true talon]

the loot from them dont seem good either. lol 250 worms, 2k aether cataylst, i def want to go fight awakened yama for that reward.

[sage latch]

just walk up to yama and ask for drops

get a free oathplate

[vivid ruin]

I feel like for solo they should tweak enraged phase

[fringe mist]

They should have made the boss trans

[true talon]

Enrage phase is way harder solo

than duo

[fringe mist]

They should slowly transition yama every week into a female demon

[tender harness]

Its literally duke succ for just normal loot its

[noble vortex]

[true talon]

I did feel the oathplate was to common, but increasing the shards to 9 from 7 means its 450 to make a single piece. in 47 kills i got 21 XD

better approach woulda been to make the shards untradeable

[vivid ruin]

7 - 9 ye

But

The plates are tradeable now

[fringe mist]

They should increase droprates of shards imo

[true talon]

None of the pitty should be tradeable

thats point of a pitty system

you get rewarded after finishing a pitty system

[sacred skiff]

Damn I knew I was gonna be bummed I couldn’t grind him more on release

[fringe mist]

They also wanted it to be tied into a skilling activity for price stability

[reef shale]

I'm just pissed about the drop rate increase dude thats so dumb

[vivid ruin]

I feel the same way l0l

[fringe mist]

And to give value to a niche high level mining moneymaker

[reef shale]

What a way to f**k every iron in the game Jagex, people just rwt for money why do they even care smh

[vivid ruin]

Been working like crazy since release do i still have 0 kc

[true talon]

Please remove the inventory lock on transitions.......

sick of clicking my 8 way when i teleport an having to re-click it when i finally land

beause nothing equiped

[fringe mist]

Yeah could def be smoothed out

I love how yama looks like he was made in 2007 finally a boss that doesnt look like rs3

[vivid ruin]

• remove inv lock on transitions
• SLIGHTLY nerf enraged phase for solo
• SLIGHTLY increase reg drops

Send it

[fringe mist]

No nerfs for solo players

Grab a partner make a friend

Put the m back in mmo

[true talon]

Yama is a great fight, base loot needs small improvements. solo enrage also needs slighty improvements (maybe incentive being in melee, by removing the attack delay when attacking the jellyfish) this would reward a player for a quick 3 way swap while fighting yama to deal with the orbs he spawns.

Currently if your duo dies and your melee, esp if they died during jellyfish. you just wipe.

because you cant deal with them all fast enough

Maybe make all demonbane 1 shot them, so you can go out an melee to kill them

[fringe mist]

Bring a full swap like me

[sage latch]

i don't think enrage needs any changes

[nocturne solstice]

Why does melee need to be incentivised when it's already the fastest way to kill yama?

[plucky umbra]

drop rate increases seem sensible, I'd much rather have them fix it now then not at all

[sage latch]

yup

[true talon]

Woulda fixed the issue if they made badluck items untradeable.

instead they just made it worst for irons

[nocturne solstice]

Going by their estimate on time to get full oathplate I think its reasonable

I went with my average time but it should take like 514 kills to get the full set

[plucky umbra]

contracts should be a tertiary drop though, they seem too rare from Yama atm

[nocturne solstice]

Wait maybe i read that wrong lmao

[tender harness]

They think 300 to 400 hours is okay for full torva? That's also

[true talon]

contracts are bad

[nocturne solstice]

It looks like people used to get it at below 60 hours

[true talon]

1/40 for a book lol

with a 1/69 to get the rarest contract

[nocturne solstice]

which would be around 514 kills so im assuming the old rate was 1/512? which feels odd

or maybe im just mathing wrong...

[fringe mist]

We need to release the drop rates !!!!

[true talon]

Contract yama is not gonna be easy and he looking to print uniques if you can beat him.

[tender harness]

This boss seemed like it just got worse for irons

[true talon]

they shot themself in the foot with this tradeable nonsense

[fringe mist]

You cant nerf without releasing drop rates Jagex !!!!!

We need the facts !!!

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah probs slightly worse for irons

30% worse

Still, its either this or nex

can skip bandos too

[true talon]

no we got double nerfed. because pitty was also increased from 7 to 9

[vivid ruin]

Literally nightmare, nex, dt2 bosses, all end game stuff is a grind for drops

[reef shale]

Slightly nothing my iron group has been on for 2 days straight with no Armour and they made it 30% worse

[sage latch]

even with the 30% nerf the drops are incredibly common

[true talon]

which is a 30% nerf to bad luck/dupe protection and 30% nerf to the uniques themself

[tender harness]

[fringe mist]

Shards aren’t just a badluck mitigator, it’s a skilling method tether

[reef shale]

No tf they're not lol im 115kc with nothing and my group has another 300 more with nothing

[sage latch]

unlucky

[tender harness]

I can't wait for the delve boss shit show now

[fringe mist]

Not making the pet obtainable immediately is a huge flop

[vivid ruin]

Unlucky. I see mates who almost have full set before 100 kc plus the death charge upgrade

[tender harness]

Delve boss is going to be on par with nex completion and they'll just say this is fine

[true talon]

doesnt help yama has a 1/6 chance to roll supplys giving you nothing..... just like dt2 bosses.

[fringe mist]

Drop rates being giga in the beginning is actually great for the early hype

[true talon]

and the supplys are so bad you cant even use them for an additional kill lol

[fringe mist]

Now im addicted

[sage latch]

yeah you can

[tender harness]

Fairly sure yama is like almost identical to duke succ base loot lmao

[fringe mist]

Classic drug dealer approach Jagex well played

[tender harness]

Holy yapping if you got nothing to contribute just dont speak

[sage latch]

this whole chat has been nothing but yapping ever since the post

[true talon]

I will say Yama needs some QOL to non maxed gear accounts

if you dont got a purging staff you cant really kill it at all

you can but its like 10 mins in enrage lol

[fossil epoch]

Is purging staff max geared though?

[upbeat moss]

im confused

is yama endgame or not?

[nocturne solstice]

I wouldnt call it max 🙃

I would call it late game

Gotta have some pretty good gear but I feel like colo is harder?

[fossil epoch]

Yeh it is late game

[nocturne solstice]

I wouldnt call it like, the peak difficulty in the game right now

[fossil epoch]

Died 6 times before i soloed it, it wasnt free

[nocturne solstice]

Thats probably what the other dude is for, the delve boss

[gritty briar]

Why would some one do yama before TDs?

[nocturne solstice]

Why indeed

[fossil epoch]

The pures are often complaining because they cant get the demonbane weps

[upbeat moss]

oh no, my restriction restricted me

[fossil epoch]

Not saying Tassili is a pure, just speaking broad

[tender harness]

Wait i can't say the word if they like to subject themselves to pain the m word?

[nocturne solstice]

I heard its viable with shadow and sangui for the orbs

Yeah I would use that word more too if it wasnt censored

[fossil epoch]

Just duo with a non pure who has the purging staff and youre good

[nocturne solstice]

true

[tender harness]

Why is it censored

[nocturne solstice]

People used it too often in weird context

[fossil epoch]

Literally 1 melee with archlight and 1 purge staff

[nocturne solstice]

Yeah ive been farming yama with arclight and purge

melee switch only for judge

[fossil epoch]

Nah the 1 melee and 1 mage lets you skip most of the p3 difficulty of you want it easier

Not saying its the fastest, but its way free'er

[nocturne solstice]

Ive been farming pretty consistantly with full mage and 4 way switch melee

pb is like 5 minutes something

[wide gull]

Is it me or are the contracts not common in any way? They mentioned them being cheaper than awakened orbs but it just doesn’t seem realistic to reliably get them from Yama

[fossil epoch]

But yeh im doing solo mage and only bring a nhally for judge

[nocturne solstice]

ooh whats the max hit on the hally?

[fossil epoch]

35 without prayer

[nocturne solstice]

oof thats higher than my 30 with arclight

i might bring that instead then

[fossil epoch]

I just copied sync

[sage latch]

i understood that the intended way to get contracts is from farming normal demons

[vivid ruin]

You have oath set?

[sacred skiff]

Ngl that’s better than emberlight too without a solid number of switches

[nocturne solstice]

Id say the intended way is from Yama with an alternative being normal demons

[fossil epoch]

No, ironman not blessed yet

[sage latch]

oh can you only get the kit contracts from demons

[fossil epoch]

Yep

[wide gull]

All I know is I’m 96 kc in, no dossier drop. A little over 2x drop rate from wiki, but that doesn’t feel like more common than awakened orbs

[fossil epoch]

Well we dont know True rates yet

And going dry is the essence of osrs

[wide gull]

Yeah crowd sourced is pretty good though

[thick beacon]

seen plenty of irons get synpases before bowfa idk

supposed to be harder content a item like that isint to hard

[tender harness]

So death charge upgrade isnt tradable why?

[ember token]

why not?

[thick beacon]

im in middle why is it so rare

[vivid ruin]

I guess same reason masori kit isnt

[thick beacon]

if it was guarnteed 50-100kc thats fine

friend of mine just got his at 215 kc

[ember token]

it has dry protection but we dont know the details

[thick beacon]

i kinda expected vork head but we got like pre buff slepe tablet

[lofty stag]

Hey guys, is there a channel/another discord for boss theory crafting? I'm really invested in the undiscovered mechanics Jagex has mentioned for Yama

[analog crow]

I thought the same lol
Talked about it as if it’s good design

[tender harness]

Like if the concern is oathplate is too fast and the basis is torva

Perhaps torva is too slow to get

[analog crow]

Goblin if you’re here, any comments on this?

[fossil epoch]

If regular people could grind for drops themselves, the economy would collapse - Jagex

[shadow fiber]

Nex is also ass on top of the drop rate, not to mention GW kc time sink

[analog crow]

Brew sipping simulator

Kq style stepunder «mechanics»

[tough shoal]

abuse early and abuse often, if only in return for the 30% panic nerf to lower uniques we've gotten a buff in certain material aquisition catalysts. to me it'd be a whole lot more palettable if from an ironman point-of-view, this would have been a viable high-octane way to get a consistent food supply. on average right now we get 5 worms/kill, if that number would have been like 10-15...

[thick beacon]

contacts seem absurdly rare imo its biggest problem

atleast from boss its rare

[tough shoal]

i think yama wasn't supposed to be the main source of contracts

[thick beacon]

ye thats fair idk how it is from killing demons

if its good from that thats fine

[tough shoal]

jagex should learn that balancing an encounter around the enevitable botfarm that would spring up to do it, would only entice the bot-farm-creators to make the farm quicker.
something something nightmare uniques

i know of extremely little actual players doing nightmare.

i pray yama won't become the second nightmare

[fossil epoch]

For sure, its like cloggers and people who have no other grinds left really

[tough shoal]

and niche special snowflakes who see osrs baseline as some weaksauce and need some extra tism to their tism game.

[fossil epoch]

I doubt yama will be second nightmare, its not a bad fight and the drops are actually useful

[tough shoal]

i doubt on ironman yama will be a second nightmare, the effort to get torva is like stated in the 200-300 hour era. i can see ironman in the endgame section going to yama before grinding out torva

[fossil epoch]

Too bad i didnt get any of the drops from yama before the nerf though

[shadow wave]

It's also not an 8 hour run until you've done 100kc

So getting into it from 0 KC is way better

[fossil epoch]

The fact i can solo yama means i will do yama, i hate having to rely on other peoples schedule, so that makes nex either mass or a non encounter

[tough shoal]

i was personally re-assessing my plans and was thinking of bypassing bandos and going for the new oath armour, but that plan is straight outta the window now

[mild saddle]

a little surprised it was like less than 48hrs though

[mild saddle]

yama is extremely accessible for irons, it'll be very common to have full oath early

[fossil epoch]

Yeh

[shadow fiber]

moons -> TDs -> Yama

[tough shoal]

well... the overal step between bandos and oathplate isn't too too big relatively speaking and the BGS is a far more useful and widely applicable spec that you still must get.

maybe before said ironman would start the tob grind

[mild saddle]

well bandos is super fast

tassets feel even more optional now though

[fossil epoch]

With bandos Irons are gonna grind for their bowfas anyway, so thats still gonna be a grind they do, at the very least for bgs

[tough shoal]

moons -> tds -> yama misses out of bgs, and bgs requires a good ranged weapon, this arrives yourself squarely back to bowfa

[mild saddle]

contracts are a disaster

way too rare, never should've put uniques on them

[fossil epoch]

Contracts Arent that uncommon from the demons though

[analog crow]

Will you really need torva if you have oathplate?

[mild saddle]

also really not looking forward to seeing how much of the cool stuff they wasted on the contract fights

[shadow wave]

Yeah, cos you use more than slash weapons in this game

[tough shoal]

you're going to want the ZCB and torva is still bis, so you're eventually going to go there @analog crow

[fossil epoch]

For any non slash fight surely

[tough shoal]

ZCB is the single best spec weapon in the game.

[mild saddle]

and vambs, nex is pretty close to the same

[tough shoal]

vambs is negletible in the grand scheme

[mild saddle]

really just loses a little tob equity but gear at tob is whatever anyway

[hard axle]

@winter hearth

Thank you friend

60 hours to complete horn and oathplate was ridiculous

[fossil epoch]

Tob is just defender (except 2hand meta atm)
And scythe at this point

[tough shoal]

everyone says nex has 5 bis weapons, but the delta in power between vambs and barrows gloves & torva -> bandos/blood moon was never too grand (offencively). the big ticket item to go to nex is the zcb

[mild saddle]

and fun

[analog crow]

Oh yeah I forgot Nex also drops the bis crossbow

[tough nacelle]

man 65h

isnt that bad

[fossil epoch]

Who says nex has 5 bis "weapons"

[tough nacelle]

the reality is for an iron this should be a slow grind

not 1 day

[tough shoal]

people say nex has 5 bis items

[mild saddle]

yeah nerf seems fair

[tough nacelle]

this is still pretty quick

[hard axle]

it is terrifyingly low and sets a horrible precedent for Torva

[winged mantle]

The nerf is fair for what the armour is

[tough nacelle]

its legit closer to bandos

than torva

grind time wise

idk y people are complaining

[mild saddle]

the main issue here seems to be yama is so accessible and relatively simple that people who really shouldn't be grinding it, are

[analog crow]

But how much better is torva than oath for non slash?

[tough shoal]

torva set a horrible precedent for sanity. but that's my opinion

[hard axle]

It’s closer to 85 now, which is still 1/3 the hour of nex instead of 1/4

[tough nacelle]

yeah torva is a stupid grind

but this is fair

[winged mantle]

Nex should be soloable imo

[tough nacelle]

you dont NEED torva

[mild saddle]

midgame irons are doing the content after moons > tds and are now not happy there's a drop rate spike for endgame gear

[hard axle]

but, the main reason for Torva be 200-300 hours isn’t what many of you think

It’s actually Torva dupes

[mild saddle]

thank god it isn't

[fossil epoch]

The nerf is fair for sure, just wish i had farmed it now instead of during the coming weekend then

[charred matrix]

Bis is bis despite how small increase in stats

[winged mantle]

Why?

[mild saddle]

makes duo nex a really interesting encounter

[hard axle]

Torva dupes contribute upwards of 50% of that 200-300 hours

[tough nacelle]

also hear me out

[hard axle]

If you made Torva bars, nex would only be 100-150 hours

[mild saddle]

see yama for what happens when you force something to be solo-able

[tough nacelle]

the fact you can 4,0

[winged mantle]

Like why does nex mage you in melee range?

[tough nacelle]

yama

is WILD

[tough shoal]

i'm personally not happy because it's another case of abuse early and often. having the reverse happen is more palettable because it got better and there's no FOMO

[tough nacelle]

bro you can still abuse early

[mild saddle]

reverse is better, but arcane has been dragged enough times for the reverse i don't really blame him

[tough shoal]

and i dreamt of yama being a reasonable way to do an active food grind to get heaps of anglers

[tough nacelle]

TDs were 90m

[hard axle]

Nah fuck that. We are not repeating toa’s nonsense

[mild saddle]

how they botched the kph, that i don't really get

[tough nacelle]

a drop yesterday FYI

man

TDs went to like 12-13m/hr

you could easily have farmed those

[hard axle]

I want that too, but bait should be 5x the amount and untradeable and full xp

[tender harness]

But why is torva 200 to 300 hours to begin with
Perhaps the problem isnt oathplate but torva

[tough nacelle]

oathplate is now a fair grind time imo

torva is an issue

[hard axle]

It’s the dupes

[tough shoal]

TOA was also a problem, i'm more of the opinion that it's better on-release to make things on the too-rare side and buff their droprates than to have things be too common and nerf them

[tough nacelle]

but oathplate isnt 300h

[hard axle]

If Yama didn’t have dupe protection, it would be 150-200 hours

I’m not kidding either btw

[winged mantle]

[tender harness]

Nobody is saying it is. But using torva as a baseline is wild when torva is also a problem

[hard axle]

They ran numbers on nex and shows the biggest problem is dupes

[mild saddle]

is the oathplate contract relevant to this?

could just rid of that

[shadow fiber]

contract is very rare

[mild saddle]

like 1/2k type?

[hard axle]

Ancestral is the same way