#leagues-general

1 messages · Page 23 of 1

manic prairie
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moritania is probably a last region pick

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its one of the harder to complete

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and doesnt give much early stuff

small flower
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unless you really wanna do temple trekking or get your bloodbark early

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yea it's not got a whole lot

weary drift
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Also AFKing the tokkul pickpocket isnt bad either, no coins so its all stacking and just buy smth to sell to someone else

stiff hinge
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you can 11x money with transmuting gems but it takes 6 casts 💀

small flower
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I just wanna see if degrading mind runes to pure ess will make them noted or not

weary drift
small flower
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bring stack of minds to blood altar and just sit there casting and clicking the altar for RC?

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aww

stiff hinge
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oh runite is waaaay more

small flower
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yea, lots of easy sources for tons of ore you never otherwise want too

wary egret
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Is there a way to get ZMI tele without lunar or grimoire?

small flower
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bank tele maybe? that guy at the start of it is a bank isn't he?

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or am i dreamin

wary egret
north cave
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Anyone else not seeing fang of the hound in dps calc? The rest seem to be there

stiff hinge
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4 casts, buy iron for 22 tokkul with gloves, sell runite for 1120
casual 50x value with transmute

small flower
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yea, fang and the crossbow are still not added i think

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oh, that's right can sell for tokkul too, super easy onyx's then

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though i feel like at that point you probably aren't worried about that

stiff hinge
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after fire cape you can buy mith or addy instead for less added value per cast but much higher throughput

small flower
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600 iron ore chunks from larran chest, transmute all that to runite and dump into the bandit camp guy though

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that should set anyone in wildy up for cash

wary egret
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Is blood altar agility tele better than ZMI bank tele?

small flower
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probably, the highest level one is way closer to the actual altar

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as long as you've got the agi

plain violet
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do we know around what tiers we'll be getting each additional area?

small flower
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uhh, i don't think i've seen anything about that outside the one image showing karamja will be 80 tasks in

stiff hinge
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i presume this was a joke, i don't think there's any world where abundance is worth it

small flower
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hah, yea was a joke, but it would actually get you there XD

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if you don't mind just ignoring cash skills for a week or 2

stiff hinge
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the gp is "fine" but there are other ways to deal with that, and i think most of the small xp drop skills it would most benefit are ones that are fairly easy to do in leagues anyway

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like, it drastically improves... cleaning herbs. wow

small flower
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yea it doesn't seem overly practical, maybe for people rushing points or something, idk

wary egret
small flower
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probably? i know that one's super close

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and the low level certainly helps

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shilo village might be good too?

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if it puts you on the south side

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i'm not even sure what other banks would be near a shortcut between varl/karamja

stiff hinge
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EH and larcenist both give you access to stupid money, if a little slowly

twin folio
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Shadowflame quadrant not a powerstaff, right?? So powerstaff nodes useless?

small flower
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correct

stiff hinge
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although now i look at it, mining runite is really really slow without the 50% success, huh

small flower
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yea

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maybe if you reloaded to take both EH and BG

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that seems like overkill though

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that'd be a rune ore on average every 3.6s

twin folio
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Trying to understand mage nodes, if i use fire surge as an example, uses 10 fire runes and 7 air runes, even tho its a "fire spell" does air node effects activate??

storm goblet
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is there a review my build section in here for combats?

small flower
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just the air regen node at the start

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so you'd get all the fire spell nodes, plus the 15% chance to recover 7 prayer points

twin folio
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Oh ok. Thanks for that

small flower
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makes smoke barrage a pretty decent option

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(for air)

stiff hinge
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without BG it's a rune ore every ~24.3 on average seconds

twin folio
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Why is that?

small flower
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the one node makes smoke spells count as air, and it uses fire runes

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so you get the 4-6(depending on how much rune regen chance you have) damage added to it, as well as the maxhit and overall damage increases for air

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you'd probably be better off iron mining with EH

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and transmuting the iron to rune

stiff hinge
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probably yeah

small flower
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that becomes 100% at some point

stiff hinge
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or, hm

small flower
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so just occasionally grab a stack of noted iron out

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and transmute as you mine

twin folio
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For the fire node that deals dmg depending on burn to self, how much dmg can be maxed at??

small flower
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6% of your total HP, doubled

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so 12

stiff hinge
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yeah coal caps at around 40%

twin folio
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Thats the best dmg from that node? Wtf

stiff hinge
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i wonder if transmute will be non-disruptive like GG was

small flower
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well, 12 plus other magic damage boosts maybe? idk how that's all gonna scale

bleak depot
small flower
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it does say maximum hp i think

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so it'd count the 99, not overheal values

bleak depot
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That was kinda my reasoning for going ice/blood ancients builds

small flower
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yea, wording is maximum hitpoints

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biggest benefit of fire is the aoe bounce and burn effects I think

twin folio
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Magic is getting more sad by the minute 🤣🤣

small flower
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for actual damage output, i think it's Air

stiff hinge
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the style with access to 10hp/tick healing is getting sad?

small flower
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for being an immortal psycho, it's water

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XD

bleak depot
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Do you think the water one will scale with those up boosts ?

Water spells deal increased damage the higher health percentage you have (+20% damage at 100% health)

small flower
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yea that should scale with overhealing

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so 38% or something at 188 life

twin folio
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Yea but can just go with Kings Barrage and its a lot more dps than just magic 😕

stiff hinge
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and yeah it's looking for sure like air is the "dpsing something you would ordinary mage", earth is the one to bypass defenses (contract yama?), water is the Fucking Invincible one and fire exists

bleak depot
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Kings barrage is cool but i want to mage lol

small flower
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fire does indeed exist

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meme dogger spec

stiff hinge
twin folio
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I want a full mage focus build but it just confusing at this point

stiff hinge
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w/ air

bleak depot
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When i ran calcs earlier smoke barrage came up way higher than ice and blood but i don’t think its calcing the water overheal or the blood added damage/burn

adversely when i respec’d into a mage range hybrid bofa had a max hit of 100 i think the range echos are fucking with the calc

small flower
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honestly any of them would do great

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but if you do spec into fire, also go water so you can keep HP full to keep burning it for the damage bonus

twin folio
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If Devil's element is a off-hand, going to recoil node, is that valid?

coral basin
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Honestly i think the best part about dogger is the name

small flower
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like, every 5 or 6 autocasts, manually throw a water surge at something

wary egret
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There’s no autocast HA right? Only transmute?

coral basin
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Correct papi

stiff hinge
small flower
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you can do recoil with devils element, but not thorns

wary egret
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Oof gold could be a problem lol

bleak depot
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Yeah but transmute solves everything lol

small flower
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but the recoil wont hit as hard

bleak depot
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No it won’t lol

coral basin
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I doubt it. Transmute gets you infinite money

stiff hinge
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ah yeah you can do recoil as in rings or dharoks w/ amulet or whatever but the thorns is shield only

bleak depot
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Transmute solves so many skills including rc and prayer making that soul relic pretty useless

twin folio
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So recoil is not a smart move with mage build?

small flower
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yea, but recoil mage wearing melee tank gear gets weird

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and requires things to hit you to take damage anyway

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mage tank with thorns can work fine, it's more of a power staff thing though

coral basin
stiff hinge
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thbbbbt

twin folio
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I was thinking of just getting RoS to do more dmg overtime

wary egret
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I’ll probably just EH bloods

bleak depot
wary egret
coral basin
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You can still generate a crapton of essence easily, youll just need to do bank runs

bleak depot
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Oh worrd. I ain’t going for that anyway imma just transmute the runes i need at least anyway

coral basin
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Yeah i mean even then its not really that bad of a rc solve

stiff hinge
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lmao

coral basin
stiff hinge
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i'm kidding, obviously you have teleports

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but still

small flower
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well, there's soul reaper, or ... royal titans?

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XD

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idk really what a good RC option is without easy tele access to a RC altar

coral basin
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#Desertstonks #guardiansoftherift

stiff hinge
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soul harvest

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that's it, that's the RC relic

small flower
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i mean yea, but for those of us being smart and not doing that

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lol

bleak depot
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Damn son give em a chance god damn hahahah

small flower
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dropping third region and going desert may win the day

desert prawn
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i feel like rc wont be Too bad, with map of alacrity you can warp between nature alter and nemus retreat with basically zero run time

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or better altar options depending on region choice of course

small flower
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actually, if i'm not going wildy anymore i guess i don't really carea bout evil eye, that's a good point

desert prawn
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i feel like map of alacrity is gonna go truly insane, there's just SO many shortcuts

static notch
stiff hinge
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dps: "no" is very funny

small flower
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XD

static notch
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21 damage thorns, 10+55% heal every 2 ticks

stiff hinge
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55% of what?

small flower
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you gotta do damage to get the % heal

static notch
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chance to heal another 10

stiff hinge
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ah right, rune thing

small flower
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oh you're going exclusively off regen

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lol

stiff hinge
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yeah that's why i was confused about the number

small flower
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truly taking splashing to the next level

stiff hinge
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wait i just had a really funny idea

small flower
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oh!, they added the tecpatl

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still no KCB tho

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changed almost nothing from the crappy low level tecpatls XD

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but i'm happy with it

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oh it doesn't have the spec figured in yet

stiff hinge
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wait how did you get 155% regen chance? i can only find 150

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oh i missed the 5%

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okay

twin folio
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Wtf 1995 max hit with tecpatls? 🤨

small flower
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lol, that's just the 1/abillion chance of all blindbags and all range echoes actually triggering

stiff hinge
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blindbag/ranged echoes are wonky and give you a theoretical max hit that is insanely high, yeah

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okay so i had a really really funny thought about how to solve gold

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if you have >100% regen chance does that mean you generate ammo, runes or charges out of thin air on attack

small flower
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lol

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i guess it would yea

lapis flax
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150% regen means you will regenerate 1 time and then a 50% chance to do so another time

small flower
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that would be awful though

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actually...

stiff hinge
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consider: onyx dragon bolts (e) have a high alch value of 9480

small flower
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maybe like, onyx dragon bolts?

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or something?

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ye

stiff hinge
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you will on average generate 5214 gold per crossbow shot

small flower
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crossbowers just gettin money for nothin'

lapis flax
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as long as you have either abundance or transmute you wont be hurting for gold

stiff hinge
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they're also just the best bolts no matter what anyway

lapis flax
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and even early you dont need abundance cause you can just cut gems

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abundance more for the plus 10 skill boost than the money

stiff hinge
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abundance seems like a bad pick in general

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although now you mention it +10 boost is very convenient

lapis flax
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im taking abundance for the +10 skill boost

stiff hinge
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but there are a fair few options for gold, and it mostly buffs skills that aren't hard to train anyway

small flower
lapis flax
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dont care about the gathering ones

small flower
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not that it's real

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well, piety puts it near 2200, but kandarin for pure melee seems.... pointless

stiff hinge
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honestly the real money solve is doing easy bosses

small flower
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just doing amoxliatl early is decent

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she likes dropping misc rune junk

stiff hinge
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alch barrows gear or some shit

small flower
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why'd you have to remind me why i wanna keep evil eye

stiff hinge
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lol

lapis flax
stiff hinge
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based enjoyer

small flower
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same, but i like wasting time before league opens by crunching numbers

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i'll ignore all my plans when i start playin

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piety does actually look pretty huge though

stiff hinge
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barrows is probably way better raw gold than any other earlyish boss, huh

lapis flax
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piety is worse than culling spree assuming you would otherwise not be on task for things, but yeah if you dont wanna reload to anything else to solve something then you can just take grimoire

small flower
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the reloaded would otherwise be put into butlers

weary drift
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Im trynna get dragon, and ngl smth simple like WKZ with crossbow seems super easy and solves like 80%

small flower
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so there's no real reason not to go for it

stiff hinge
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oh wait you can do moons i completely forgot

small flower
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yea

lapis flax
stiff hinge
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i meant early game as in the boss is early game, not as in early on in leagues

lapis flax
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sure

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ez boss

stiff hinge
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but ye moons or amoxi is a similar kind of deal

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something you can blow up in a couple seconds for a decent amount of raw cash in alchables

small flower
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just for laughs, checked blood moon vs echo weapon+torva

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blood moon wins

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alright then

smoky raft
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infernal tecpatl should've been <1kg

small flower
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for real

smoky raft
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would've given them a build niche as a light 2h, a slot that's currently only occupied by claws

small flower
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i'ma be hearing that knockin a lot this league i guess

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even works out with the massive spec regen on hit considering the spec is only 25% cost from the maca's

sterile fern
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does anyone know if regenerate works on cannonballs that you preload into the dwarf multicannon?

mint stone
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The clue relic is worth considering? Will I get clues for items I may not have access to?

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I am considering it or transmutation

gleaming widget
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tion

small flower
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i think the standard is that clue steps you cannot access are automatically removed from the pool you have available

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but usually there's one or two that slip through

sterile pewter
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Will echo boots dropped premade in leagues or do I gotta have asgarnia and mory?

wary egret
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Feels like it might take awhile to get more than 20 pact points but then they’ll start flowing quick

stiff hinge
sterile pewter
cursive edge
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Hmmm. Could be a Kandarin Asgarnia Morytania build where you use fire surge and then blood fury + echo dagger to heal up

stiff hinge
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you know

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bfury existing completely slipped my mind

devout knot
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k

stiff hinge
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it still sucks balls compared to water healing

smoky raft
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to be fair, everything does

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that's kinda water's whole thing this league

stiff hinge
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if you have 25dps then all else being equal, onyx (e) will give you 0.75 hp/s or bfury will give you 1.5/s

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meanwhile, the humble 15hp/tick water surge

ebon hearth
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you must learn all 4 elements to become a master bender

smoky raft
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all 4 elements!

  • earth!
  • thorns!
  • uh
  • earth again!
cursive edge
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But while dealing 40dps, not like the 20 of water surge

thin nebula
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anyone have an idea of easy to get under 1kg weapon for league start? Wonder if its worth even trying to rush the <1kg tree

sterile pewter
true yarrow
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or dragon dagger from implings

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if we can get lost city done

cursive edge
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It’s auto completed surely? We start with Zanaris access

true yarrow
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if you want to go for 2h under 1kg you can get rune claws from ninja imps or get super lucky katana from clues

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or rush cox for dclaws

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don't think there's anything else under 1kg for 2h melee

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lategame once you have a lot of str bonus it should be amazing

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2t melee is big

cursive edge
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Like 45 DPS+

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45 DPS without any echo boot procs, but with 100% accuracy

true yarrow
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and the spec being instant-hit means you can pull some sweaty combos off with crossbows

vestal shuttle
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Man I'm so excited to pair the Dogger with the Devil's Element and get that sweet sweet boosted fire damage

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Dogger Element build boutta go crazy

potent quail
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Monk build incoming

IMG_0819.png
thin nebula
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wonder if barb gather has any synergy with that

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First I thought to go barb synergy for the crystal axe, but then I read the relic fully and it does not give the tool but as if your hands become the tools

potent quail
thin nebula
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I meant that crystal axe is sub 1kg weapon, so it would have been good early starter for that tree

sterile pewter
mint stone
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Would you guys say Hotfoot or Woodsman? -Kandarin, Tirannwn, Desert.

tacit oyster
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if unarmed counts as two handed light weapon you could run the claw meme build from start even before you get claws or katana ancestralhmm

cursive edge
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This should be really solid actually

mint stone
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Always wanted to take advantage of surge spells in pve

cursive edge
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Smoke Barrage DPS matches Wind Surge while being AoE, and being on Ancients means when you drop a water spell to heal, it’s also freezing

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This is a Smoke Barrage build, not Wind Surge 😛

near trench
cursive edge
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Suffering and Echo boots

near trench
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Its not thorns tho, its recoil

cursive edge
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I’m not 100% sure if speccing the points is worth it

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Ahh ok fair enough

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I see now, it’s specific to the thorns shield node

tacit oyster
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the last 2 point in thorns gives nothing but the reflect and increased recoil can be worth

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oh wait reflect is also shield

near trench
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yeah but you also most likely will not where a shield, so id route North to get prayer and heal for offhand

tacit oyster
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so would be 4-5 points just to get this

Screenshot_2026-04-11_104651.png
cursive edge
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Ok I’d do this instead

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Smoke Barrage should sit around 48 DPS if 100% accurate (without culling spree)

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And then bonus thorns damage on top, though in many cases you want to keep distance for the accuracy boost, so echo boots don’t help

near trench
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how do you plan on getting culling if you need ancients?

cursive edge
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Reloaded

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Or spec desert in theory. This gear is only 2 regions currently

near trench
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oof then you might be lacking in skills/clues

cursive edge
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Kand + Kourend

near trench
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Double raid region is a lot to play. also progression is harder due to being locked to hard tasks

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Also you are kind scuffed whenever you are not accurate

cursive edge
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That’s always the bane of air builds

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This gear has higher accuracy than 3 vestment pieces

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Same pray bonus

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Tbh I’m planning to play powered staves anyway

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But fun to see what an optimised wind build could look like

tacit oyster
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if you want fast and easy point you would select 3 out of these: fremmenik/wilderness/fremmenik/kandarin/tiranwann. Cannot cap league points without raid region though

near trench
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True. I just think that you need a plan for getting to your optimised build 😄
Also if you are 40/40 you need to chase after with the build then.

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If you have Z you still need to deal with olm

tacit oyster
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it all depends what you are after in league. Going for raid region or asgarnia is not for players who want adamant/rune rank as fast as possible

brazen zephyr
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Do we know if jagex are thinking about changing the diary requirement for chally? 🙁 Feels so weird to not have chally in tirannwn without kandarin

tacit oyster
brazen zephyr
cursive edge
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An undead grasp full blue moon blind bag build unironically looks pretty solid lol

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Every 2nd grasp cast, you do a free instant attack with the spear

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Grasp spell alone doing at least 20 DPS

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So melee whack + blind bag/echo procs need to add another 10-15 to make this reasonably competitive

cursive edge
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I think it can reach 35 DPS, with 3 scythes lol

tacit oyster
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blindbag + melee echo builds should be best with faster hitting heavy weapon, like full bloodmoon set might be best option

cursive edge
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Do we know if for example you Wind Surge an enemy with 40% Water Weakness, will it be treated as 70% Air Weakness, or 40% Air Weakness?

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Seems like something we need confirmed by Husky

tacit oyster
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it should add the mob weakness to your spell but i dont think there is clarification from jmods about combining the weaknesses

crystal kelp
tacit oyster
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So if a target has 10% earth weakness and 20% water weakness (it can't have both, but just making it clear). If you attack with an air spell it will take the highest weakness (Water, which is 20%) and treat the target as if it instead has 20% Air weakness instead.
And if you have a Devil's Element equipped that will become 50% Air Weakness instead

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it will combine them

cursive edge
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and turbo op

tacit oyster
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air mage seems to be strongest with all that said

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if it actually doubles your max hit chance against enemies with any weakness

outer meadow
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Does anyone know if a blood fury will proc on blindbag and/or echo hits?

stiff hinge
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no reason to think otherwise, it worked with echoes in L5/grid and the pact text for blindbag says it attacks as though you have it equipped

tropic cloak
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are the earth spell pacts really weak? i can only get like max 11.6 dps when ive seen builds get up to like 40 dps

stiff hinge
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the wiki dps calculator doesn't account for the def-scaling flat damage at all

cursive edge
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aahh fuck, yeah reading through huskys replies, my powered staff build just got a couple nerfs lol

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didnt realise you cant stack imbued heart and the +10 magic from regen

bitter pebble
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I think the idea is you start out and do 10 earth spells to lower defence, then switch to a different type

cursive edge
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and it turns out the GG echo staff spec still incurs attack delay :/

shadow badger
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Yeah heart is the best magic boost available

cursive edge
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but it comes out instantly, so im still a bit confused tbh

stiff hinge
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reducing both def and mdef on earth is really strong

cursive edge
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like if you use it on the same tick you do a normal attack, do you stil attack on the next tick? or is there a tick where you cant attack

shadow badger
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I don't think it stacks with normal attacks

stiff hinge
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it's a little slow to get rolling on anything with REALLY high def, but it only costs 2 points to get all your def-reduction needs solved, so it's a nice option to have

shadow badger
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Could be wrong tho

cursive edge
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it is an instant spec, so it can be used on the same tick you attack

tropic cloak
cursive edge
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huskys words are 'its instant, but still incurs attack delay'

shadow badger
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I guess it's the 1 tick delay?

cursive edge
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'Its instant but has attack delay'

stiff hinge
cursive edge
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Yeah so the question is like, does it add another 1 tick delay on top of your normal attack you did in the same tick

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so if you do attack + spec on same tick, you cant attack on the following tick

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if so, then its not as much of a DPS gain as i thought

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makes the specs effectively 26.6% more dps instead of 52% more dps

stiff hinge
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for that matter, the +10 damage from the fire regen boost is also not accounted for

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oops

cursive edge
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yeah

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though its also not clear yet if that +10 damage can be scaled

stiff hinge
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nor the hp burn

cursive edge
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by % magic and %ele weaknesses

stiff hinge
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wait

cursive edge
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the -8 damage on powered staves seems to be applying at the end of the formula in the dps calc

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which is a good thing in that case

stiff hinge
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oh no

cursive edge
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but for + damage you want it being applied at the start

stiff hinge
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Whenever your combat spells Regenerate fire runes, the damage of your next spell hit is increased by 1 per rune regenerated.

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doesn't that phrasing mean that if you keep splashing fire surge you can "bank" damage and go oneshot something by actually hitting

cursive edge
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bahahaha intriguing

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if its implemented literally then i would think so

stiff hinge
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wake up babe reckoning bomb 2.0 just dropped

shadow badger
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Also it specifies spell hit, so could you swap to another weapon and the damage boost stays?

stiff hinge
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it just depends on whether or not you trust jamflex to have precise and correct technical writing or not

shadow badger
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Last thing Zuk sees

tawny frost
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for elemental magic Zeah + Kandarin are must.. but what better regions can I pick over Fremnik?

stiff hinge
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why zeah?

mint stone
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zeah?

tawny frost
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ancestral

shadow badger
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Anc

stiff hinge
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ancestral is a spook

mint stone
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Not so important imo.

stiff hinge
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it's like 3% damage

tawny frost
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I also like zeah

mint stone
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just get tirn and wear crystal for +6

stiff hinge
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you can have virtus for free

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OR you can do air and have sunfire bis

tawny frost
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tyranwin doesnt work tho with shadowflame

stiff hinge
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?

shadow badger
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Yeah crystal or virtus

tawny frost
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crystal doesnt work with shadowflame

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again

mint stone
#

you get the magic att +60 and +6% dmg

stiff hinge
#

how do you figure it doesn't work with shadowflame

tawny frost
#

because it only works with powered staves

shadow badger
stiff hinge
#

ok but it also just has magic damage

mint stone
#

That's the fat accuracy thing yeah.

#

but you get the 2nd effect

#

Tho if you like zeah, obviously a good pick

tawny frost
#

the second effect is still worse than ancestral

stiff hinge
#

the accuracy ends up coming out to +20 total magic attack if you have all three crystal pieces, because of the existing negative magic attack

#

but magic attack isn't a real stat so it's all g

tawny frost
#

I am not trying to replace zeah

#

I am trying to replace fremnik with something that makes sense

#

and so far its only wilderness vs fremnik

shadow badger
#

Fremennik is ass

stiff hinge
#

i mean, kandarin is kind of the do everything region for mage

tawny frost
#

not for magic

ebon hearth
mint stone
#

Kandarin, Wildy, Zeah, not a bad mix

tawny frost
#

fremnik has saturated heart, magus ring and v helmet .. which is meh but it is something

#

wilderness his god cape.. thats it

mint stone
#

The crossbow is cool if you want to reset

#

Personally going Kandarin, Tirannwn, Desert cuz I mainly want to mage and melee a bit

stiff hinge
#

you want to melee and you're not taking mory?

mint stone
#

Don't like tob

stiff hinge
#

fair

#

it really is crazy looking at what kandarin does for mage

mint stone
#

that echo reward is making me so happy

tawny frost
#

fremnik is reaaally shit this season I mean we get free quiver too so assembler is ass

mint stone
#

Fremenick is a really bad pick overall imo

stiff hinge
#

you get trident, quadrant, devil's element, zenytes, occult, wrath rc

tawny frost
#

yes but for magic I dont see a better third pick

copper gorge
#

Mory you go for nox hally though

#

Not so much tob

stiff hinge
#

i mean

#

three scythes is a lot of blindbag damage

#

or as many scythes as you want depending on how it works

copper gorge
#

Pulling 3 scythes and ornament kits isnt as easy as you think

mint stone
#

barrows aswell lol

tawny frost
mint stone
#

people will spend 2weeks in barrows to get 5axe

copper gorge
#

They have to be unique id's you cant simply have 5 of the same item

mint stone
stiff hinge
#

that's just for the buff and you can fill those 5 items out pretty trivially

tawny frost
#

can you put noxus hally in the bag if youre also wielding one ?

limpid flare
#

do we know if cerb dagger spell scales with piety, str or str bonus?

mint stone
#

You can get 49-50prayer gear in kandarin+varla and hit max hits of 100 constantly

tawny frost
mint stone
#

per 3tick

stiff hinge
#

unbound jads don't have water weakness wtf... toxic

mint stone
#

This isn't great, but I swiftly built this

shadow badger
stiff hinge
#

i mean

tawny frost
mint stone
#

Didn't want to go beyond 100% so got 90

tawny frost
#

but why

#

it does nothing

mint stone
#

also I am going desert so I want it for kq

stiff hinge
tawny frost
#

okay

mint stone
#

and akkah

#

It all depends ofcourse on regions

#

this league is giving me fomo without having any fomo in it lol

tawny frost
#

but fire burns max hp

#

so I still dont know if air is better than fire

#

and all wrath spells use air runes so I already get the prayer reg

stiff hinge
#

it's hard to say when the dps calc doesn't work

#

i'm inclined to lean on the side of "max hit every time" over +10 damage

mint stone
#

Think someone posted here earlier an air build and dps calc showed 101max hits

#

per 3tick

stiff hinge
#

actually +22* damage i guess

#

but the +22 damage on fire there would also be killing yourself for it so

tawny frost
#

that does sound like something I want

stiff hinge
#

i think the real star of fire is not having to take ancients for aoe doing slayer

tawny frost
#

the combat calc not working is a real downer

#

cuz I already have 1 respec for post varlamore

#

from melee back to mage

olive linden
mint stone
#

would work great with the crossbow+water heal

olive linden
#

The ideal is at 40 points pick up another 30% increase and the hp difference from hp level node

#

I think going all in on overheal and water spells might actually be a stronger build, but I think tiranwynn and mory are more fun than kandarin and desert

tawny frost
#

so to come back around to my initial question of "what to choose over fremnik cuz fremnik sucks"

#

if I go air with prayer bonus wildy becomes valid again for ring of gods + cape ?

cursive edge
stiff hinge
#

why not?

cursive edge
#

it just doesnt

#

it applies to crystal weapons, all melee weapons, and all powered staves

stiff hinge
#

ah right lol

cursive edge
#

so only bowfa/crystal bow

#

in ranged class

stiff hinge
#

and it's a very uhhhh

#

the ice barrage effect is a very "terms and conditions apply" effect

cursive edge
#

how so?

stiff hinge
#

it's a crossbow attack that functions with water mage pacts

olive linden
#

It doesn't need to work with kcb, it will work with shadow or the lithic sceptre

junior phoenix
#

Question does anyone know how the fire spell effects interact with elemental weakness and magic damage?

cursive edge
#

I believe the KCB build optimised pumps out like 45-50 dps, with like 10 healing/sec

mint stone
cursive edge
#

but suffers a lot from overkill

mint stone
#

and crystal bow ^

cursive edge
#

One thing of note was I realised the -8 damage to powered staves is applying at the end on the wiki dps calc

stiff hinge
#

45-50 seems really really high

#

considering it has halved max hit

cursive edge
#

either at the end, or like just before slayer helm multiplier

#

but def after %magic dmg

#

which in the case of - damage, is a good thing

#

wiki could always be wrong though

cursive edge
#

its a cosmetic change just about

#

except the 2nd hit gets a nice 38% dmg boost

stiff hinge
#

the wiki says it hits twice with halved max hits

cursive edge
#

yeah

#

which is same dps as hitting once with full max hit

junior phoenix
#

There are 3 possibilities:

  1. Flat damage is added after all mulitpliers - in which case fire spells are dogshit.
  2. Flat damage is added after magic damage but before elemental weakness - in which case fire spells are good but worse than high priest builds by a fair chunk
  3. Flat damage is added before all modifiers - in which case fire spells obliterate everything
#

I've been assuming number 3

#

The wiki doesn't work for fire spells at all though

cursive edge
#

I do believe %magic damage and %ele weakness are additive

#

So 2 isn't really possible

junior phoenix
#

Huh. Well how about that

cursive edge
#

But yeah, if 3, Fire Surge is like 70 dps vs anything right

junior phoenix
#

I've been wrong about a lot of things then

#

Not quite but pretty close

#

I would sort of be inclined to assume it's number 3 because it just makes sense that fire spells do more damage but damage you

#

If they do way less damage and damage you then... why?

stiff hinge
junior phoenix
#

53dps against everything if option number 3 yes

#

Same but if you look at the wiki turns out they are additive

cursive edge
#

12 avg base hit, 15.5 added from regen, 22 added from 189hp burn, so 49.5 avg base hit

40% magic dmg from gear, 8% from tree, 4% from augury, 30% from weakness, so 82% increased from that multiplier

then 40% multiplier from shadowflame

49.5 * 1.82 * 1.4 = 126 avg hit

126/1.8 = 70 on the dot

stiff hinge
#

and that's a big part of why they kneecapped the tome of fire when they added weaknesses in general

granite haven
#

does torva drop damaged or alrdy repaired in leagues cant remember

junior phoenix
#

I think the burn is only 12 because 189hp is just overhealed, the max is still 99

stiff hinge
#

i wouldn't have thought that the burn synergizes with overheal pacts, because overhealing means having higher than your max HP-

#

yeah

cursive edge
#

self burn does 11 damage, and you'd expect to get around 30 hp back per water spell. So every 3 fire surges, you gotta cast 1 water spell. Factoring that in I reckon it's something like 58-60 average DPS

#

Doing 3 fire > 1 water > repeat

cursive edge
junior phoenix
#

W H A T

#

Fucking hell

stiff hinge
#

imagine if all of the information was actually somewhere we could see it instead of relying on word of mouth lmao

cursive edge
#

Fire spells are weirdly worded but it does burn considering overhealed HP, so if you have 150 HP it'll consume 6% so 9 hitpoints to deal 18 more damage. A twin-flame staff will consume 9 hitpoints once not twice

#

how do you make something a quote in discord btw

stiff hinge
#

space after the >

cursive edge
#

goofy

#

ty

cursive edge
mint stone
#

Nightmare zone works during leagues?

cursive edge
#

i just found out an hour ago theres a deidcated leagues discord

junior phoenix
#

I mean in fairness to them, we're looking at intricate maths behind the scenes, I don't really blame them for not telling us the exact order of every damage calculation on the official blog

stiff hinge
#

i do

cursive edge
#

where you can find a list of info from husky directly, and also search from:husky and scroll through

stiff hinge
#

pitchforks and nan in the cage ASAP

junior phoenix
#

Can you send an invite?

cursive edge
#

They've expressed their intention is to work with wiki team building the DPS calc

#

to ensure its implemented correctly

#

but thats a work in progress still

#

I can't post the link

junior phoenix
#

I'd assume the -8 max hit after magic damage is correct then btw

cursive edge
#

Yeah I hope so

stiff hinge
cursive edge
#

My powered staff build is a bit worse than I thought since I learned imbued heart wont stack with the +10 lvl boost from pacts

#

and the GG staff spec may incur an attack delay

#

rather than being a free hit

stiff hinge
#

mage is too spaghetti we're not allowed to have magic gmaul sorry

cursive edge
#

but -8 applying last offsets things

olive linden
cursive edge
#

Varlamore has virtus

#

by default

tawny frost
#

how does imbueing work in leagues?

junior phoenix
#

Also how does asgarnia give you augury?

tacit oyster
#

imbues only in kandarin 1gp = 1nmz point

#

asgarnia gives titan prayers, need zeah or grimoire for augury

cursive edge
#

It's not augury, but for Air spells the titan mage prayer kind of matches/beats augury

#

since it can be paired with a defensive prayer

#

vs low def stuff you want 2 melee prayers regardless, but high def shit

#

titan prayer + 5% def prayer is equal to augury basically

tacit oyster
#

zeah/grimoire would still give you preserve

cursive edge
#

yeah true, which is a solid buff for air

#

I do think smoke barrage is actually the best route for air

#

so you prob want grimoire regardless, for that

sleek wraith
#

Think so? Does kandarin staff work for ancients if you choose the pact to make them be treated as air or water spells?

#

Like will it shoot another spell with staff?

#

If you use smoke barrage?

mint stone
#

Think the staff passive only works for standard book

tacit oyster
#

the only part that makes the staff confusing is "elemental spells" part

sleek wraith
#

So no point in really grabbing grimoire besides prayer if you want to main kandarin echo staff

cursive edge
#

Yeah even accounting for that

#

Smoke barrage costs 4 fire runes

#

So it adds 6 max hits, making it 33 base hit spell

#

wind surge 24

#

33/24 = 1.375

sleek wraith
#

Shooting 2 spells each attack is nice.

tacit oyster
#

technically ice barrage with the water skill tree is water spell but does casting ice barrage count as casting elemental spell still

cursive edge
#

due to rounding and whatnot, the 1.375 from that vs 1.4 from staff tend to be equal in actual max hit

#

esp since you'd wear virtus chest and smoke barrage gets an extra 3% from it

#

but other nice thing about going smoke barrage is that yeah when you pop a water spell to heal, youre also freezing

sleek wraith
#

Was going to wear crystal armor with echo item

#

For that 15% damage and 30% accuracy

cursive edge
#

for powered staves?

sleek wraith
#

Yeah

cursive edge
#

mhm, yeah i am too

#

Tirranwin, Wildy, Mory

sleek wraith
#

Isn’t kandarin a powered staff?

cursive edge
#

powered staff thorns build

#

no

stiff hinge
#

no

sleek wraith
#

Ahh shit

#

Fuck maybe I’ll drop kandarin

mint stone
#

if kandarin was powered staff... omg 🙂

cursive edge
#

just do a sang/echo gg staff build with a shield for thorns 🙂

mint stone
sleek wraith
#

Yeah true.

cursive edge
#

from what i can tell so far, it beats air dps

#

when including thorns damage

olive linden
sleek wraith
#

Man why can’t kandarin echo staff be considered powered

cursive edge
#

its op enough bahah

sleek wraith
#

Lol

stiff hinge
#

because it's not a powered staff lol

sleek wraith
#

I want it more op

cursive edge
#

all build diversity would be destroyed

mint stone
#

You can still raid and get a shadow and have it boosted

stiff hinge
#

i would HOPE

sleek wraith
#

True true. I had it set where I was going KZT or ktz

stiff hinge
#

for powered staff, kandarin gives... zenytes?

sleek wraith
#

It does gives zenytes

cursive edge
#

but you already get conflictions

stiff hinge
#

for actual maging, kandarin bends over for you and cooks you breakfast after

cursive edge
#

from varlamore

tacit oyster
#

zenytes dont really matter unless you go suffering. varlamore already drops upgrade to tormented bracelet

cursive edge
#

for powered staves kandarin is crap

#

im taking wildy instead

stiff hinge
#

oh right of course

mint stone
cursive edge
mint stone
cursive edge
#

thats how leagues work with these things

#

components drop as whole item

mint stone
#

WHY are we not getting this information ffs lol

cursive edge
#

we are

tacit oyster
#

confliction drops as completed since you cannot make it into usable item in that region

stiff hinge
#

yeah, everything that needs multi-region parts just drops as-is, has been standard since... leagues 4?

junior phoenix
#

The indication seems to be that fire flat damage applies before magic damage and weakness

cursive edge
#

just been that way in previous leagues so i guess they didnt emphasise it

junior phoenix
#

Soooo yeah that's cool, fire build bis

tacit oyster
#

any item that is not usable without extra regions will be dropping as usable version

mint stone
cursive edge
stiff hinge
#

yes

void jewel
#

Do yous think void helm will stack with culling spree?

stiff hinge
#

actually i think it's just leagues 5 that that was the case

mint stone
#

ooo this is fun

cursive edge
junior phoenix
#

In the leagues discord. It's not confirmed but everyone seems to think that

mint stone
#

this changes a lot of my planning, nice

stiff hinge
languid mauve
cursive edge
stiff hinge
#

silly huge embed

cursive edge
#

However if it worked the other way, and applied last, fire spells would be pointless eh

stiff hinge
#

anyway i linked the exact part on the wiki page

cursive edge
#

like we're talking what

junior phoenix
#

Well yes that was my thinking too

languid mauve
#

Theres a new leagues planner, if you havent seen it you need to lol

cursive edge
#

47 fire dps i think

stiff hinge
#

all SRA parts from any boss, anything that would drop as a component drops as a whole item instead

cursive edge
#

not terrrrible

#

but no advantage over air

#

12 * 1.82 = 21 base avg hit, add 15.5 and 22 for 58.5 base hit

then 1.4 multiplier from staff

(58.5 * 1.4)/1.8 = 45.5

then plus another 2dps from burn I suppose

stiff hinge
#

i forget, did they remove autocast delay in general at some point in the last few years?

cursive edge
#

tho that'd make it 72 dps if the flat applied before

stiff hinge
#

yeah that was back in 2024, nice

languid mauve
#

@edgy lava Mod Husky already confirmed this in the reveal, both bolts are treated individually and can both proc the demonic pact where “crossbow hits always max”

As well as water magic working with ice barrage on 2nd bolt with proper node for ice uses water

cursive edge
#

but yeah 47.5 would strictly be much worse than air, since you have to cast waters to heal

junior phoenix
#

Okay so looks like water surge heals around 36-38 so you can get off 3.5 fire hits per water heal

cursive edge
#

and your dps suffers when you take boss dmg on fire

#

while air doesnt

tawny frost
#

how do you even get the 50 prayer bonus? I only see 28 with magic build

cursive edge
#

sunfire helm and legs

#

virtus top

stiff hinge
#

you prioritize the prayer gear over the mage gear

cursive edge
#

and bonecrusher neck

stiff hinge
#

because the consistent max hits is WAY more valuable than adding even like +6 max hit

cursive edge
junior phoenix
#

However, don't forget that air dps suffers a lot from accuracy

cursive edge
#

yeah fair point

stiff hinge
#

yeah

cursive edge
#

i think it can still be very accurate in most cases tbh, but like

#

if youre fighting shit like vardorvis

#

it may be relevant

twin folio
#

What weapons are alreafy worked on for the dps calc?

stiff hinge
#

all of them except for kbc i think

#

it's just a little hazy on whether or not they're fully functioning lol

twin folio
#

Gotcha

junior phoenix
#

Looks like fire water surge dps maxes out around 57dps

cursive edge
#

including the 2 burn dps?

junior phoenix
#

No

#

So 59dps

tacit oyster
#

wiki does not have confirmation about how 2nd bolt on king's barrage actually works so they cannot add it

twin folio
#

What u mean by fire water surge??

junior phoenix
#

You profit heal slightly

#

Doing fire and water surges from a max 188hp to keep your hp up

stiff hinge
#

the downside is

cursive edge
#

doing 1 water surge every 3-4 fire surges

#

to maintain optimal dmg boost

twin folio
#

Oh so u switch between them both?

stiff hinge
#

you have to swap your casts every 6 seconds or some shit lmao

junior phoenix
#

Assuming things calculate after flat damage, you hit max 57dps

twin folio
#

Oooh ok

cursive edge
#

tbf the 2nd and 3rd fire surges are getting slightly lower bonus dmg

junior phoenix
#

You do yeah, that's the downside

cursive edge
#

idk if you accounted for that

junior phoenix
#

I did calculate that in yeah

cursive edge
#

but its minimal

#

nice

junior phoenix
#

I actually averaged 20 burn damage and 15 regen damage

twin folio
#

Only 57dps?? Isnt that just regular dmg with a surge spell with max mage?

junior phoenix
#

What do you mean regular damage?

cursive edge
#

wind surge gets to like 48 dps I believe

#

water way lower

#

earth way lower too I believe

stiff hinge
#

earth's effects are not implemented on the wiki calc

cursive edge
#

I know, but you can math em out manually

twin folio
#

Oh u guys talking about dps, not max hit. My bad.. lol

cursive edge
#

only unknown in my mind is if for some reason maybe that Earth damage is not reduced to 40% on the 2nd hit of shadowflame

#

its the only one that says 'flat' damage

junior phoenix
#

Earth caps out around 42-43, water barely breaks 25dps, maxed out high priest build can theoretically cap out around 50dps

cursive edge
#

could be like a flat armour situation

stiff hinge
#

sun fanatic bis using air magic and not sunfire is very funny

twin folio
#

Yesterday ppl said something like smoke barrage or ice barrage is better

junior phoenix
twin folio
#

Does smoke barrage have a lower or higher max hit than air surge?

stiff hinge
#

smoke barrage is just a better version of wind surge

junior phoenix
#

No because the quadrant doesn't give you the 40% buff

#

When using ancients

stiff hinge
#

assuming - which i think it is reasonable to do so - that ancients with the "functions as $element" pacts function with it

twin folio
#

But wont go with shadowflame?

stiff hinge
#

do you have receipts for that?

junior phoenix
#

Yes

#

Read the blog

stiff hinge
#

maaaaaaaan i have too many tabs open for this shit kekw

twin folio
#

Lol

junior phoenix
#

"When using elemental spells on the standard spellbook with the staff equipped will fire an additional spell attack dealing 40% of the damage of the first attack"

#

The bad grammar is theirs not mine

cursive edge
#

My sang staff thorns build with Wildy + Mory + Tirranwn maxes out at 37.5 DPS with the Sang itself, and then another 19.5 thorns damage which is 6.5 dps vs a 5t boss

so 44 DPS combined

However some upsides are that you heal 5.5 hp/sec constantly. You regenerate 2% spec per tick, so you can get out more Accursed/ayak specs. And you have wildy so you even have Accursed in the first place. And lastly it has quite a lot higher defence bonuses than ele builds

stiff hinge
#

oh yeah okay

#

so you get the elemental weakness benefit, but you don't get the 1.4x damage

junior phoenix
junior phoenix
tacit oyster
#

i wonder what wiki dps calc updated... crossbow build lost 10% dps ancestralhmm

cursive edge
cursive edge
junior phoenix
cursive edge
#

also imbued heart doesnt stack with +10 so

#

if you were including both, gotta remove imbued

#

thats why its now 37.5 dps with sang

junior phoenix
cursive edge
#

well

#

44 dps with 5.5 healing/sec constantly

#

is imo better than air even

#

but air wins hard vs anything with ele weakness ofc

junior phoenix
cursive edge
#

big upshot tho also of my powered staff setup, being able to go wildy means

#

1/4 of the content i do, I'm fuckin giga OP with thammarons sceptre 50% dmg buff

junior phoenix
cursive edge
#

well wildy doesnt count, Thammarons beats the extra dmg from weaknesses

#

in tob i think only xarpus has weakness?

junior phoenix
#

Verzik p3 and nylos

twin folio
#

I know ppl answered this hundreds of times but if a spell use multiple runes, does that trigger for each individual rune used or just count as one for regenerate nodes??

cursive edge
#

ah ok

stiff hinge
#

counts for every rune

junior phoenix
cursive edge
#

thorns is nice for nylo room

junior phoenix
#

Thorns and lithic staff demolish nylo room

cursive edge
#

yeh, tho everyone will have lithic easily enough

#

even if ele build

#

if in tob i mean

stiff hinge
#

wait, am i missing some way of triggering thorns on your hits or something? how would thorns help for nylos

junior phoenix
#

I think smoke barrage high priest is actually gonna win out overall

cursive edge
#

i believe if a white nylo attacks me the thorns will kill it?

junior phoenix
stiff hinge
#

i mean

#

yeah i guess

cursive edge
#

not sure if itll kill the other 2 types

#

yeah its not like game changing, lithic is the game changing part

twin folio
#

Btw, i think shadowflame/devil element combined will make all bosses have a elemental weakness, even those that doesnt have one AND that was mention on the echo item video reveal

rough vortex
stiff hinge
#

why earth and not water?

tacit oyster
#

only melee nylos die to melee damage. i wonder if you take recoil damage when non melee nylos hit you though kekw

stiff hinge
#

lmfao i'm now imagining the instant-suicide feedback loop

rough vortex
junior phoenix
rough vortex
#

in which spot?

stiff hinge
#

eh? it's only missing 2 nodes for +5 def level

#

and i think those wouldn't give it a breakpoint

rough vortex
#

3 actually

cursive edge
# junior phoenix Well shit imbued staves dead nvm

also vs all the content not meant to be maged, my powered staff setup should beat air, even if theres some weakness. Like I was looking at vard, which has 35% weakness, and powered staves still came out on top

iron mesa
#

Hey, have there been any polls regarding which relics people are going with?

stiff hinge
#

oh yeah three, i'm blind

cursive edge
#

but yeah fire would be untouchable if the flat applies first

#

but fire is way more active playstyle

twin folio
cursive edge
#

vs a 5t chicken, 37.5 sang staff dps, and 6.5 dps from thorns (19.5 hit every 3s)

#

so 44 dps combined

stiff hinge
#

chicken?

tawny frost
cursive edge
#

as in, something with no defences lol

stiff hinge
#

ah right

cursive edge
#

the accuracy is very good, i have 195% on tree

#

and crystal etc

#

but just saying the numbers not including accuray, for comparison sake

tawny frost
tacit oyster
cursive edge
stiff hinge
#

you also gain dps by swapping to sunfire mask

tawny frost
stiff hinge
#

it's a bit more hit and miss with the other styles too. i think crossbow is more accurate than not, i haven't looked at blindbag in a while but it was VERY janky last night

twin folio
#

Whats bis boots for TKZ?

tawny frost
#

so how does that thing even work.. if I have the air spell perk and air surge selected will it trigger my air dps ?
or will it immediately go to water surge because the inferno monsters are weak to water?????

cursive edge
# twin folio Whats current dps on that powered staff setup?

but yeah 44 dps, however the other pros are:

  • it heals 5.5 hp/sec constantly, no switching or thought required
  • It generates full spec bar in 30s due to 2% spec restore per tick at 1t attack speed
  • it has wildy so we can use that spec for Accursed specs, and ayak specs, to deal with tanky bosses
  • And it has 200+ defence bonuses in all styles basically, with +25 def lvls on tree
  • And also by being 1t, it suffers the least from overkill
tawny frost
cursive edge
#

I'm talking about my powered staff build

tawny frost
#

not including thorns from echo boots either

#

oh okay nvm then

stiff hinge
tawny frost
stiff hinge
#

pretty good yeah

cursive edge
tacit oyster
tawny frost
stiff hinge
#

they really did just go "alright fellas how do we make kandarin a pickable region" and make it insanely roided for mage

tawny frost
#

but its hard to compare air vs fire

#

I mean with fire you might just oneshot all jads and zuk

cursive edge
#

also you have 2 pts wasted

#

on the powered staff nodes

#

air/water ones

tawny frost
#

what?

cursive edge
tawny frost
#

OR WAND

#

wait I thought

stiff hinge
#

you are not using a wand

cursive edge
#

It's not a powered wand either

tawny frost
#

that also includes normal spells?

cursive edge
#

no

tawny frost
#

ooooh

#

oooooh...

#

lets just say

#

those "2 wasted points" are my failover points since idk if I can beat 6 jads or inferno yet xD

cursive edge
#

I suppose by wand theyre trying to include like, eye of ayak or something

#

I personally had basically the same tree, but those 2 pts were in smoke/ice nodes

#

Because I think smoke barrage + ice barrage are the better play

#

smoke barrage dps equals wind surge due to its 4 fire rune cost

cursive edge
#

more dps but more effort, and real dps can drop due to boss damage

tawny frost
#

Im trying to not choose grimoire

cursive edge
#

while air isnt affected

tawny frost
#

a lot of maybes and ifs

stiff hinge
#

i should think more about relics lol

tawny frost
#

if you dont assume something to be insanely strong and giving jagex the benefit of the doubt to have balanced and tested things thoroughly

#

then standard spellbook (as written in the staffs description) should be stronger than ancient spellbook

#

and therefore ancients not needed

#

for some reason my leagues build tool tells me I have ancients unlocked but I dont even have desert?

cursive edge
#

not sure what you mean exactly

#

by that first sentence

tawny frost
#

you're assuming things to be stronger by interpeting it in a certain way

#

I assume things to not be stronger because there has to be a reason jagex wrote "standard spellbook" into staff description

cursive edge
#

well yeah the assumption is just that the dmg added from fire regen does get scaled by %magic damage

#

which could well turn out to be the case

#

nono mate, im not at all assuming

#

that ancients gets the 40% extra hit

twin folio
#

Why dps so low now??

cursive edge
#

completely discounting that, smoke still matches wind

#

because the max hit of 33 (27 + 6 from fire regen) is 37.5% higher than 24 of wind surge. And virtus gives an extra 3% to smoke

tawny frost
cursive edge
#

well it evens out

tawny frost
#

this all sucks a little tbh jagex only gives us 3 respecs but since no dps calcs are working correctly
we are all pretty much bound to wait for "that one guy" to test things out for us

cursive edge
#

my logic is that dps is equal, but ancients route gets you AoE on your main dps skill, so is 10x better for slayer/some boss encounters, and then when tossing out water spells to heal you can also freeze, also very useful and vital for some bosses

twin folio
#

Wait wait wait. Crystal armor doesnt work with regular staff like shadowflame??

cursive edge
#

nope

tawny frost
cursive edge
#

superior spawn rate is still same as base game no?

#

or maybe 1/50

tawny frost
#

no

#

the slayer relic makes it insanely much stronger

junior phoenix
tacit oyster
#

I really wonder what changed about zcb and crossbow talents in wiki dps calc, max hit dropped from like 115 to 92 on zcb itself and dps got over all 10-15% reduction

twin folio
#

Why u want superiors? Lol

cursive edge
junior phoenix
#

Yep

cursive edge
#

its 1/50 to spawn one, and then 50% chance for it to respawn, is same math as wildy altar bones

#

effectively works out to 2 superiors spawning each time on average

#

solid, but not insane

junior phoenix
#

You want superiors because they give like 10x xp

tropic cloak
cursive edge
tawny frost
cursive edge
cursive edge
#

1/50

tawny frost
#

hmmmm

tacit oyster
cursive edge
#

1t staves too op

#

or even swamp trident, if you're not going mory but are going Tirranwan

tropic cloak
#

oh damn swamp trident is better

#

at vardorvis shadow would be better, but air surge is even better

cursive edge
#

for vardorvis when I factor in pairing thorns with sang staff, and a thammarons spec, it still beats shadow

#

But for your tree w/o thorns then yeah, different situation

inner zenith
#

anyone know the discord that does 100man cms? they did it last league and was sick, i forget who it was though

fickle pine
#

is under 40s awakened vardorvis a good build?

cursive edge
# junior phoenix You want superiors because they give like 10x xp

btw it's possible still that the echo staff doesn't interrupt your normal attack dps. I'm rewatching the video, it seems it was filmed with 4t speed wand, and after his 2nd spec he gets a normal attack out immediately afterwards (Before the animation of the spec is even finished)

What I think husky meant was that you cant spam the specs all in the same tick like a GMaul. So there is a 1t gap between using the spec, however it may not delay your next normal attack at all.

junior phoenix
#

Let's hope

cursive edge
#

All things considered tho, given it was only like 6% dps better than sang, and sang has healing and can be used at long range, im not too bothered if the spec does add an attack delay

junior phoenix
#

Awakened vardorvis you're gonna want max overheal thorns, at a minimum. Honestly might be best doing just pure water against him

cursive edge
#

it's still a good early wep to get pre-sang

#

and useful for slayer

fickle pine
#

fang of the hound slaps vardorvis

junior phoenix
#

Mhm

fickle pine
junior phoenix
#

I'm not sure how you got the dps so high with the dogger but you're better off maxing out str bonus with torva and ultor

fickle pine
#

accuracy my friend, its all about accuracy

#

if you hit, you deal damage, it is a fire element weapon as well

#

it can also kill nex in 2 mins

#

well avg ttk is 118.1s

junior phoenix
#

I know how accuracy works yes

fickle pine
#

Its why I personally do not like the blindbag strat, sure the ceiling is high, but i am not waiting for that .001% chance to hit 1k

junior phoenix
#

Okay so torva and ultor actually has the same dps as it turns out but again idk how it's so high

#

Oh, preaching to the choir, blindbag is shit

cursive edge
#

damn wtf dagger dps is showing way higher in the calc than I had estimated before

fickle pine
#

So i think where the dps goes into a higher threshold is 4 skills i chose,
the increase your str by 20% of str lvl
The reduction down to a 2-tick weapon
The prayer bonus perk (Melee)
The offhand melee str perk in the range tree
The over heal damage bonus (Use 5 hp to gain 5 damage)

#

then all the accuracy checks

junior phoenix
#

Ohhh shit the overheal damage riiiight

#

Much ask though, how do you get that hp back?

fickle pine
#

water spell magic staff

cursive edge
junior phoenix
#

Mkay

fickle pine
#

or not get hit and be good at the game

cursive edge
#

no clue if the 40.731 accounts for the special effect procs

junior phoenix
#

It doesn't matter if you don't get hit

fickle pine
#

the burn effect from the fire tree is not in there yet either

junior phoenix
#

You take 4 damage per second

#

So you have 20 seconds of this dps before you have to find a way to hea

cursive edge
#

92 max hit makes no sense

#

why does it think theres a 92 max hit

stiff hinge
#

time to quad eat and wait 20 more seconds to be able to dps again kekw

fickle pine
#

20 sec dps, switch to shadowtrident, heal 60 back

cursive edge
#

with 106 str bonus

junior phoenix
#

If you do 3 water spells every 20 seconds to overheal back (ignoring the fact that accuracy vs vard is like 20%) your dps plummets to below 30

tacit oyster
#

i think wiki is increasing the burn with str bonus too ancestralhmm

junior phoenix
#

92 max hit because normal hit, then 40% hit, then burn

fickle pine
#

vardovis is weak to fire spell

cursive edge
#

hmm

#

but the burn is like

#

negligible

#

39 max hit empty handed

junior phoenix
#

But the burn gets counted in full for max hit calc

cursive edge
#

but

#

the expected hit

#

is half the max hit

#

+3 for the min hit

#

if it was assuming rare burn procs

#

expected hti would not be so high

fickle pine
#

throw the devil's element on there and it surpasses 100 hit

cursive edge
#

ok yeah wiki is wrong

#

they've assumed 100% hit rate for the special effect or something

stiff hinge
#

the dagger spell?

tacit oyster
#

fang has 12 higher max hit than inquistor when inquisitor is 2x str bonus lmao

stiff hinge
#

dogger doesn't roll for accuracy on the proc

#

it just hits

fickle pine
#

^

junior phoenix
#

Oh, so it is, yeah dps calc is wrong

cursive edge
#

so with mith scim max hit is 52 (same str bonus as dagger)

#

so 52 * 1.4 = 72.8

#

so yeah, its adding 2x20

stiff hinge
#

🤔

cursive edge
#

going from 72 to 92

#

i mean 2x10

junior phoenix
#

Ohhhh wait

cursive edge
#

so its assuming 100% hit rate AND it max hits every time xd

stiff hinge
#

huh

junior phoenix
#

The fire effect comes from both the main hit and the 40% hit

#

I assume

cursive edge
#

yeah

junior phoenix
#

So that checks out

cursive edge
#

for max hit, yes

junior phoenix
#

It's assuming it hits the fire effect every hit but otherwise is right

cursive edge
#

but i guess the issue then

#

is with the expected hit calculation

stiff hinge
#

damn, it's a shame the prayer to str thing is only 50%

cursive edge
#

the expected hit, which is then used to give you the dps number

#

is assuming 100% proc rate and maxing 10 on both procs

junior phoenix
#

No it's assuming a normal hit on both procs, but assuming 100% proc rate

cursive edge
#

Expected hit is not 46

image.png
#

it shouldnt be

junior phoenix
#

Average hit is correct if you assume a 100% proc rate