pvp-discussion

[brazen fox]

Kinda interesting actually, altho I think it’d be the same thing - ppl wouldn’t try it or they’d try it but complain there’s wildy only clues

[wraith panther]

Anyone not wanting to step into the wilderness to begin with is not the target

Maybe its a mini game with 2 teams, and you have to have all your players do each of the steps. Where you can PVP members of the opposing team

[brazen fox]

What if we changed the general perception of pvp tho so there were less ppl who didn’t want to enter the wildy

[wraith panther]

much harder to do. the amount of taunting and "sit" that happened in LMS yesterday shows me the community as a whole hasn't changed

and while I can't blame everyone for the shitters

its still there

its inherently competitive, being player versus player

so everyone has a chip on their shoulder

[brazen fox]

Yeah I noticed last few weeks ppl saying sit etc but they’re usually complete donkeys

Vast majority of ppl aren’t like tht

I mostly get flamed by ironmen ngl

[wraith panther]

I hear ya, but it only takes a few bad experiences

[wraith panther]

for sure, salty we cant get the kills

[winged thorn]

No? No one ever said there shouldn’t be a fee. One guy made a statement that he didn’t like fees. You’re putting words into people’s mouths (again).

I’ll reiterate for the 3rd time: I am not the Jagex police. Rwt is a Jagex issue & not a me issue.
“Rag” will always be a thing regardless of if it’s tied to rwt, lol.

[brazen fox]

[wraith panther]

I definitely complained about dd-ing

feels so advanced to where i was at, I dont have entity hider

I can't sit there and play mind games about gear switches when im just trying to get a handle on pvp in general

ya know?

[brazen fox]

It’s part of base game if u type ::renderself u can even do it on mobile

[wraith panther]

skill gap is crazy

yeah but that sets the tone

[brazen fox]

Bro dw there are still ppl that cook me when I have dd

[wraith panther]

and why its so offputting

to new players

[brazen fox]

Maybe 2 people total now tho

[glacial gate]

whats wrong with more money in the wilderness? We add a new pvm method thats best in the game every 5-6 months.

Noone complains there

[brazen fox]

So ye trust the skill gap gets bigger and bigger as u get better

[brazen fox]

Thing is most ppl aren’t taking advantage of dd anyway, u can spam bolt them and ocassionally brew and you’ll break even on dmg

[wraith panther]

but thats what im saying, as someone new to LMS and PVP, it sets a harsh tone that will drive people away. I'm not saying any of it needs to be changed, just that the stigma is a little earned

[granite sphinx]

It’s always the ironmen man lmao

[brazen fox]

Yee I agree it seems op

But it takes u like 1h to realise u can spam click them

[wraith panther]

its not the money making in general, just that its not a solid "fix" to making the wilderness active

[brazen fox]

It’s a shame it’s such a stigma when it’s such a simple fix

[wraith panther]

It's more nuanced than that, again, when you have people just trying to get used to gear and prayer swapping, and now you have techincalities like freeze positioning, farcasting etc

learning curve is steep

[granite sphinx]

With your idea before tho I kinda agree, a while back I proposed a Wildy agil activity that required essentially a fee to get the league boots, and they’d only grant the xp if you tagged whatever assigned obelisk/npc in the Wildy you got assigned. Then you’d at least be able to throw them around different areas of the wilderness to utilize a bit more of it

[wraith panther]

but rewarding

[granite sphinx]

Cuz so many dead areas rn

Perks - not running in one exact circle to train agility for a thousand hours

[brazen fox]

Ofc but the big reason as pkers we gotta engage with the larger community is 90% of that is irrelevant at first

Honestly doing anything other than bolt ragging when defending dd in lms should be seen as an advanced technique

Ngl if u camp augury and just learn to tank swap and cast spells at first you’ll piss a lot of ppl off as well

Cuz everyone prays RANGED and ur SPAM BARRAGING LOL

[wraith panther]

yeah I complained about DD, in a civil way, and the guy actually appologized and offed for a sec. Was so impactful for me and probably them, that hey I recognize you are way more skilled than me at this, and they recognizing im learning. It calmed me down instantly. community building stuff for sure

[brazen fox]

And augury makes em splash lolololol

[brazen fox]

Yeee it’s key man ngl, big reason this channels existence is based af

[wraith panther]

i really like this, is there a post I can read?

[granite sphinx]

Ehh idek where I posted it at this point it was so long ago

[brazen fox]

Legit I was sending vids to like a top top nher when I was learning, but I was just circling my mouse trying to figure out what to click, and he never flamed me or anything. Just solid advice to keep going

[wraith panther]

Agility does need some love, and its thematic with running in the wilderness hahaha

[brazen fox]

That was a massive reason I kept learning

[wraith panther]

anyone know why i cant put reactions on comments

[brazen fox]

I think u gotta post some more in the server

It’s level up based

[wraith panther]

ah

[granite sphinx]

Yeah, it just felt like something that made sense, basically one small favour for agility running around the Wildy lol

[wraith panther]

Well if you wanna brainstorm it more, definitely get some conversation going.

I'm going to be thinking about it throughout the day lol

[wraith panther]

Love it

[granite sphinx]

Rewards and stuff tbd, but I’m sure it’d need like some sort of energy regen mechanic because otherwise you’d need 15 stams and no food - my only question is on singles v multi. Like is it pick one or the other?

[brazen fox]

Do it we need more wildy stuff in #1022203837265756231

[wraith panther]

I do think it would benefit from some team/Pking piece of it

[brazen fox]

Multi like hard mode treks

Singles normal treks

[granite sphinx]

Are there different difficulties spanning Wildy levels, or just one track fits all

[granite sphinx]

True

[brazen fox]

Wait this is just sailing but without the parts everyone hates

Nice

[granite sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/x3-gif-24301743

[wraith panther]

Different difficulties would probably work best with harder ones trekking through multi zones, I agree

[granite sphinx]

No perpetual movement

[wraith panther]

what lets you choose the obelisk tp location? diary?

Maybe thats also incentive to complete diary, so teleporting to next objective is easier, otherwise you can use tabs/Ancient spellbook is goated (as it should be with wilderness content)

[granite sphinx]

Think you’d probably need to make whatever item you’re carrying break upon teleport

Otherwise would just be tele simulator and kinda boring/also only really rejuvenates tele spots and less other areas

Plus less thematically agility if it’s telemanmode

[wraith panther]

yeah but maybe make the objective a run from the obelisk, I'd have to draw on map to make it make sense. But it would increase your "lap" time tremendously, with the risk that the opposite team might be waiting to engage in a fight.

Tag/Do the objective, teleport out. Run from TP spot to next objective.

Lots of factors like Teleblock griefing(or maybe intentional strat) haha

More games you complete give you an emblem/thing to bring in, and if you survive with it, its more points, similiar to BH ones?

[glacial gate]

id rather do that all day long than run another rooftop ever

[granite sphinx]

Mechanics like being auto tbed upon receiving the item could be interesting - also makes lower level accounts playable while doing it sub 30 Wildy

[wraith panther]

yeeee im liking this, ill be back in a bit. But going to think about it

[brazen fox]

Agility outside a 20x20 tile box updoot from me

[winged thorn]

Just gotta get it past the catered crowd

[granite sphinx]

Honestly they should make a non-Wildy version as well (albeit less rewarding) of just basically one small favouring agility around the world

Should just also be a Wildy update too lol, think it fits the game really thematically

[glacial gate]

[fast cradle]

wildy updates lol

https://tenor.com/view/nice-gif-21458880

https://tenor.com/view/nice-meme-gif-24255292

[glacial gate]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1465348114033541183/1479211127459283056/multi_revs.gif

[glacial gate]

im gonna eat this real quick

setup of champions

gl me

Wtf he got out games trash tbh

[granite sphinx]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1486039017421148300 put something together

Had to do it on my phone but at least it’s got the basics

[winged thorn]

Free 2/3

[granite sphinx]

Oh no did he get hit for the rogue jmod comment?

[wide crater]

so fun fact, we had an entire week long ns war the week of christmas. literally over 100 hours straight

[winged thorn]

I didn’t even see it but ye

[latent relic]

Rip

[wide crater]

yea he just tagged me in our disc saying man down looooooool

[latent relic]

Hopefully not permanent

[wide crater]

free 2/3 L0L

[granite sphinx]

Classic

[hollow fiber]

No way they banned my boy

Free 2/3

[latent relic]

I must have missed his comment because I didn't see anything that would warrant a server ban.

[hollow fiber]

Grab ur cannons lads we're hitting falador

[forest kraken]

Yeah we did that against ref

But doesn’t mean it’s the norm lol

[winged thorn]

He was maybe a bit sarcastic but idk if banning him was the right play. To each their own though. I’d hate to catch a rogue ban for talking about it

[latent relic]

I feel like I'd be too old for a 100 hour NS fight I remember doing them in f2p rs2 when I was younger

[jade ledge]

Not sure how their multi rev idea in the game jam is enticing when callisto has better loot p/h according to wiki

[jade ledge]

Rip we've lost a common upvoter

[granite sphinx]

Now we’re never gonna get multi revs

[hollow fiber]

More WG est trips pls

[jade ledge]

wildy slayer cave*

Have to play your role in the "food chain"

[latent relic]

I'll dust my Hally off, haven't been able to play as much the last couple weeks unfortunately. Works been ragging me

[hollow fiber]

Who needs work bro just quit your job and play osrs all day

[latent relic]

I have to feed my kids lol

[hollow fiber]

old man

[safe marten]

Almost caught up. Free 2/3

[latent relic]

Wasn't joking lol

[hollow fiber]

#Free2/3

[wide crater]

i def poked you with my hally at least once in the last week

[hollow fiber]

I know we're all old as fuck

[latent relic]

Yeah I've been able to get on a couple times

[granite sphinx]

I thought about logging in the other day

Then thought “what would I even do”

[hollow fiber]

Which mod banned my boy

[granite sphinx]

And then didn’t

[hollow fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/azerbaijan-gif-25929810

I got on last night to own

owning was done

@winged thorn can u give back those claws

or toss a 5er mate

[latent relic]

Why you taking claws +1

[hollow fiber]

wasn't me

Hally +1

always

[winged thorn]

Idk what you are referring to

[hollow fiber]

do not lie bro I know u were there smh

[latent relic]

All claws are good for is to proc pnecks

[hollow fiber]

Hally is the way brother

It wasn't my claws that were yoinked lol

https://youtu.be/Mz0Lo4TwDpg?si=n417AYWmwNDbpdA-

Some good action last night

[winged thorn]

Not sure what you are saying.

[hollow fiber]

toxic gamer!

[wide crater]

i barraged you!

[safe marten]

I would react but the mods banned me from reacting

My reacts were too real

[hollow fiber]

To much power in your reacts

[winged thorn]

[iron cobalt]

no

gold farming is only issue when its in the wilderness apparently

ignore all the older gold farming methods not in the wilderness ig

[iron cobalt]

longest return fight thats happened in the past 3~ years has been like 2 hrs long

it has been brainstormed from what i understand the pvp jmod has no power to do anything really

so its a lose lose for him

[granite sphinx]

It’s so sad man, all his ideas have to be relegated to dmm, and even when it’s a successful dmm they probably just move him to start working on the next dmm lol

[wide crater]

I mean pj timer definitely has its pros and cons, i get it from a pvmer standpoint being a good thing cus a pker can kilk the noob thats bolting them. But from an actual singles pker standpoint it would kinda suck, if i wanna get passed off after i wreck someone instead of being able to finish them ill just go multi kwim? Also affects the pvmers that try to anti ig too. What is your idea for what it should be?

And just to clarify, im a multi clanner, when i say singles pker i mean that when my clan isnt on i am pking solo, i dont have anyone ready to login and help me out. So no pj timer fucks me into only being able to pvp at specific hours

[granite sphinx]

I just liked the older system, I ran around with a small group of friends, generally anywhere from 2 of us to 7-8 of us. Like yeah sometimes we’d get smacked by teams of like fifteen people but so often we’d have little scrambles with teams around our size of varying combat levels. And just not really a fan of multi as I view it way less fun, I can tank a single med for a reasonable amount of time til maybe someone can bolt him off, I can’t tank 15 meds piling me at one moment lol

Plus I think it opened more of the Wildy for pking since in lower lvls there’d be one guy on tb, other on ancients etc which made it a bit more viable. Also we didn’t have freeze - log out just ending 90% of all fights within three hits

[wide crater]

Weve talked before obviously i dont have the experience with the old system. Ive done bh worlds and gotten absolutely cooked. However that obviously wouldnt be the case if EVERY world is like that. I wouldnt mind like a 50/50 split tho cus i like the current singles mechanics too

[granite sphinx]

It also had the dynamic where Wildy levels mattered a lot more - like if someone got hit by a 126 on a level 100 right at 30 line, even if you give the level 100, nowadays they have to tank four levels and are out. That 5 used to matter cuz there could be someone like a 110 or something that could then get on him

Then that’d require the guys other friends to come back, help him try to get out etc, which was just more activity that doesn’t happen now

[echo harness]

I mean they could maybe open more worlds for it with old singles mechanics, but then no one will go on those since they have the safer alternative

which I guess concentrates activity more but idk if jagex actually want that

[granite sphinx]

Yeah I think it kinda has to be an all or nothing sorta approach as far as worlds go - only other thing I can see is like maybe keep rev cave singles+ and revert the rest of the Wildy

[brazen fox]

I’m a big bh world wildy enjoyer, idm being focused by like 20 people even, it’s fun, but there’s def pros and cons to pj timer

[granite sphinx]

Cons - current state of the Wildy

https://tenor.com/view/why-cry-why-pepe-why-why-pepe-cry-pepe-pepe-cry-gif-5847161834541812219

[slate raft]

How is the rev cave or pking in general for a maxed 110cmb

[granite sphinx]

When I was out there maybe 2 months ago pretty rough - best bet is I’d say south ork? Can prob beat up on a lot of the moons accounts that are like high 90s combat

Didn’t see much of anything else out there back then tho

[slate raft]

Am i crazy to go rev cave in full torva to d claws rush ppl

[cosmic anchor]

[granite sphinx]

Yes, but someone’s gotta do it

[minor aspen]

yeah sometimes i roam the rev caves on bh world to see what people are up to, sometimes theres small teams, other times its pretty empty

[slate raft]

Can u still recharge spec with lunars

Wouldn't mind a rushing team to back me up with extra specd

[cosmic anchor]

BH worlds are hard carrying PVP rn

[next sequoia]

Ok and what would you be rewarded for doing the scavenger hunt? Why would anyone want to do that

[brazen fox]

Ye there are small teams at revs I think ppl just never check

[tropic root]

Wilderness only clue scrolls

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/wrpu1h/wildernessonly_clue_scrolls_revised_poll_in/?ref=share&ref_source=link

@wraith panther you might enjoy this idea ^

[next sequoia]

The old system could come back. If they added incentives for people to spend their time in the bh worlds.

[next sequoia]

This.

[granite sphinx]

Yeah, I mean the old system allowed for the wilderness to be significantly more rewarding cuz people could actually die in singles lol

You can’t throw too much there rn cuz it’s wayyyy too safe

[next sequoia]

Wym?

[granite sphinx]

It being singles+ rn has made the Wildy so safe to be in that jagex can’t really throw big gp/h at it because people who are decent/good at the game have probably a 99% chance to tank even 1% pkers since it only involves getting 1 correctly timed freeze

Whereas before you had to actually tank out whatever tb they got on you

[brazen fox]

I think he means add some reward system to bh world

[granite sphinx]

Oh yeah, sorry I was talkin about 2 diff things, would work fine for bh worlds rn I was referencing singles+ and why they can’t really revive that with gp/h

[next sequoia]

Would like to see some type of mega rare clue reward. Silly/cosmetic rewards are cool and all, but where's the exciting item that takes a long time to get.

Would be cool where if you pk'd someone for their clue scroll, you get their clue with the progress the other player was on. For example step 4 out of 5. Or you can pk them for their clue casket

[next sequoia]

Singles+ is the last thing that needs an update right now. A good multi hotspot is what's needed.

[tropic root]

I like the idea of stealing the clue scroll

[next sequoia]

But I'm fine with any wilderness update at this point.

[tropic root]

Did you see the game jam

[granite sphinx]

IMO add this https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1486039017421148300 Wildy clues, and Wildy implants and it gives infinitely more reason to go to may new areas that are currently not used at all in the Wildy

[tropic root]

We could give PvMers some AK-47's

[granite sphinx]

Agreed they gotta add multi revs back and just drop a nuke on the escape caves and we should be ok

[tropic root]

Nuke?

Like get rid of them?

[granite sphinx]

Yes delete them

In their entirety they suck

[next sequoia]

We need a reward that keeps people going back to do clue scrolls. Most of those rewards shown in that post won't achieve that.

[tropic root]

What do ya dislike about them?

[tropic root]

Sure, what kinda rewards?

[granite sphinx]

You know how pvmers complain that taking non-dodgeable chip damage sucks?

[next sequoia]

I'd have to think about that for a while. It's a hard question to answer

[tropic root]

Oh yea the enemies are typeless right

[tropic root]

The struggle :)

[granite sphinx]

It’s like that on steroids, on my pure I drink like 2 full brews just leaving the boss room and escape caves. Then it’s another like full minute to run back to entrance and hop another world, and there’s 200 worlds to check

And yes typeless damage

[next sequoia]

Imagine a mega rare cosmetic where you can change your pk skull to a Golden skull. Something super rare and expensive on the GE.

Or a cool demonic intimidating pk skull above your head (would need the art team to cook something up cool)

[wide crater]

i mean if thats what majority wants im all for it, ill adapt just like i have. i can just see how it affects different things/ppl ofc. maybe a specific area or two for ppl who want proper 1v1s would be doable

[granite sphinx]

It’s the reason I haven’t pked there since week 1

[next sequoia]

Something like that is really cool and some pvpers would want it

[granite sphinx]

That’d be like duel arena/pvp worlds since that’s where people used to do that

[tropic root]

They added demonic skull to rs3 lolo

[wide crater]

yea which is a problem imo, bc again. more activity leaving wildy lol

[next sequoia]

I love that idea, that buffs wilderness activities for a minimum risk. That's a different concept tho, I know what you're talking about

[tropic root]

3rd age wilderness gear

[granite sphinx]

Think the actual # of people looking for that sort of thing is very few and far between

[wide crater]

id be cool with leaving agility arena as singles plus, thats where i get a lot of my best fights XD

[next sequoia]

2nd age gear

[granite sphinx]

As noticeable when you go out to the Wildy rn

[wide crater]

fair point unfortunately

[granite sphinx]

Yeah I think leaving agil arena and rev caves like that would be fine to give some space to people

But add more loot to the outside areas that are actually dangerous if they go that route

[wide crater]

absolutely would like that idea

follow the risk vs reward scale, singles plus no pj has reward but not as much as risking fighting 2-3 ppl

BUT i will say this. i think if pj timer gets removed there should be a timer when you kill someone. i should not be able to have a full fight with you, kill you for your max set then not be able to get out of wildy thatd be pointless

[granite sphinx]

I think that’s something they could definitely explore

Seems reasonable, less needed now with keys but I’d be ok with it

[wide crater]

still needed i think cus now im losing my set even tho i won cus im out of food lol

although i guess that falls back on the gear check argument, prolly wouldnt be fighting in max sets in that situation

[wraith panther]

I'm not a developer, just spitballing conversation while I had morning coffee.

Should I think about some super cool reward first before an engaging activity? Then we can just shoehorn it under another PvM boss if you'd like.

Me mentioning that little scavenger hunt reminded someone else of an agility idea they had, so it wasn't for nothing.

[granite sphinx]

Yeah I mean I think it’d be fine - I was more so thinking if you killed the tber your tb is removed anyway and you could just tele. But in the case you kill someone else I guess

[wide crater]

oh i was thinking like altar or something, or deep wild. i cant log out if theres no timer and above 30 was my issue

[next sequoia]

LITERALLY. Bad for pures, but also bad for every party involved.

Bad for the pkers: Having to scout worlds, get chip damaged, annoying run all the way back to the boss entrance wasting run energy and time. Not a fun experience.

Bad for pvmers: Harder time to tank, chip damage in the escape caves, no escape opportunities.

It's just poor design all around and slows down any quick action/world hopping. If you really think about it, there's no real good reason for the escape caves to really exist. It doesn't even assist the escaper in any real beneficial way if they get attacked. The only reason why the scout issue exists is because jagex made it to where pkers can't hop within the boss room.

[wide crater]

i agree with this 1000000 percent. pvmers most efficient escape is getting gap on a team esp in multi. the caves serve no purpose except to keep ppl aggroed to not be able to log out

[next sequoia]

Nothing is worse than pking at zombie pirates though.
You're forced to log out away from the center because you get ragged by zamorak mages hitting you from a distance. You can't properly scout inside so you have to blindly run in, hope there's someone in there for you to attack, pray magic (wasting prayer/supplies/run energy), then if nobody is there, you gotta run back outside but the mages follow you and rag you from a distance preventing you from world hopping and giving you a 10 second logout timer. Only for you to repeat the process again. It's very slow un-fun world hopping.

I talked with manked, asking them to change it to where zammy mages won't attack people outside. Only aggro when someone runs inside.

[granite sphinx]

It’s been undeniably terrible since it came into the game and for the life of me idk how it hasn’t been changed once since lmao it’s embarrassing almost

Yeah definitely, zombie pirates also annoying as all get out. Both things I pked there the first week, but then it was just too annoying to bother doing anymore, I’d rather not play the game

[next sequoia]

That's my entire point though. The past few wilderness updates could have been designed better. Is this design fun for the pker? (Chip damage caves/zamorak mages aren't), is this design fair for the pvmer/escaper? (Again, chip damage, auto teleblocked at all times, etc, is not fair). Are there balanced escape opportunities for them? Is this update worth peoples time or rewarding enough?

I think they just missed the mark on a lot of those questions.

[granite sphinx]

I think the worst part is being told with each “we’re going to monitor it and see how it goes” only for there to be little to no changes to all the issues that come up

[next sequoia]

If they can design cool things like Yama shortcuts with no input delays or hallowed sepulchre shortcuts/platforms. Why can't they add that to the wilderness. Something that makes the content dynamic and exciting, while also giving pvmers (who aren't equipped to fight back) opportunities to escape full teams. Multi revenants 89 shortcut was the closest to anything like that. I've seen pvmers escape entire 20 man teams with a shortcut and escape with all of their loot. There needs to be escape methods that do just that

[wide crater]

Tbf i couldnt care less about zombie pirates, except on my pure or med. i dont usually hunt pvmers anyway but when i do i like the bosses cus idiots risk too much, at pirates majority time is hides and 1 item lol

Like those kills arw all 400k at the bosses im consistently pulling 5m + kills between 4 itemers and other pkers

[next sequoia]

Back in the pvp discord days, a lot of people were asking for a low level wilderness pk hotspot. Funny how it's dead content now

It is content designed for pures. Which fair enough, not every piece of content needs to be designed for everyone

[winged thorn]

+1
ridiculous it got removed in the "revamp" proposed for multi revs :d

[granite sphinx]

I was more so appalled at there being zero singles aspect to it (I don’t even count the ship with 0 npcs and 1 chest) but like you said it’s just a nuisance to pk at

So I’m not real surprised it’s dead

Imagine a world where if you wanted to hop at rev dragon, you’d have to run down to the pyrefiend, log out then run back up to check every world, while draining your prayer and food, nobody would do that either lol

[next sequoia]

Kind of how it is at wilderness multi bosses. You have no way of knowing who's inside. You jump down, if it's nobody you can attack, tough luck, gotta run through a chip damage escape cave and run all the way back to the cave entrance.

[granite sphinx]

Yeah just flat out sucks lol

[latent relic]

yeah 2 hours isn't too bad.

[brazen fox]

Gonna be upfront I read 1/2 a message out of the last 50 so might be off topic now but…
Idk the wildy run around doing task thing is cool

[latent relic]

its honestly a pain to pk there for a multi fight. Most fights end up south of 19's because no one wants to be ragged by the druids.

[brazen fox]

Unskulling is a huge advantage but noobs never gna try anti pk when they need looting bag+ ether brace + salve swap

[granite sphinx]

I’ll take this as a W

[brazen fox]

Would b cool to just have everyone’s inventory slots matched and see what happens

It’s that time of night I wanna yap but cba reading 😂 😂

[fringe fjord]

i miss bounty targets in wilderness

should work in every world

[granite sphinx]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1486039017421148300 well that’s too damn bad get to readin big guy

[wraith panther]

ill check it out, thanks

[whole grove]

Hi, coming here from game-questions and wanting to understand what I’m up against in level20 (rev caves wildy PK). PVP wise what are the most common account levels, can someone help me confirm what I’m up against with these CB? Which ones fight what.

CB 87/92/93/94.

I know there’s no precise magic number but what are the considerations at 87ish VS 93/94?

Thanks @open grove for some basic info earlier

[iron cobalt]

hey

[granite sphinx]

Hey

[granite sphinx]

At 87 you’re likely gonna be fighting a lot of 60-75 attack 50 def accounts that are like high 90s combat

[winged thorn]

you also may run into a maxed 60 atk med. but they'd likely only b able to atk you for a few lvls

[fringe fjord]

there not that many of those

you mainly want to avoid 75 attack meds

[winged thorn]

either way, point is anything that's like 100cb+ & pking will likely have piety/augury/rigour

[fringe fjord]

yh

you want to steer 20 combats clear of 107-126

60 attack meds strong but not korasi strong

they almost never stay 60 attack due to this

because 3 more combat levels and you got sotd and korasi

and they constantly fighting those

oooooooo

[winged thorn]

pvm loot when that gamer was looking pvp advice smh

[fringe fjord]

going back to pvp now

you are not safe anymore

[next sequoia]

Thoughts on an item that allows you to teleport from any wilderness level? (A 20 second long teleport that can be interrupted). Long cast spell or item but can teleport you from 30+ wilderness.

[minor aspen]

you could probably justrun to an obelisk/30 line in 20 seconds

which is what people would do to escape - world hop then run somewhere

are you thinking of a specific use case? or just convenience

[granite sphinx]

not a huge fan but would be curious as to why anyone would use it lol

[jade ledge]

Done several wildy tasks at ease today. Ty BH and PvP world for dragging pkers out of the wildy 🙏

[granite sphinx]

I guess to preface that - im not a huge fan cuz idk why anyone would actually use it

[next sequoia]

I've just seen jagex propose the concept (or reddit) and was wondering what ppl thought in here

I'm personally not in favor of it

[granite sphinx]

feel like the vast majority of areas up there are dead enough, dont need to kill them even more by removing 1/2 the run involved in doing the content at them lol

[fringe fjord]

doesnt really matter because you can also just freeze log

in the same amount of time

[next sequoia]

An item like that would just make people spend less time in the wilderness and kill off the chances of finding someone in random areas. Pretty much what squintzz said

[fringe fjord]

it makes no difference

any scenario you can use it in you can also log out

just makes banking less shit at places like scorpia i suppose

[granite sphinx]

and even scorpia it takes what? 15 seconds to run to 50s and bank? lol

[fringe fjord]

more like 40 lol

[next sequoia]

Yes. Any area aside from multi, you can just freeze log. Thats thanks to the pj timer.

[fringe fjord]

3 clicks beats having to run out of wildy from level 50

[granite sphinx]

guess for just afking it up yuea

[fringe fjord]

means you wont need to cut web

tele to the obelisk in level 54 (?)

kill scorpia till out of supplies

use the 20 second teleport

now the quickest way is to run back lever and cut web

so its still significantly less annoying

cant see it changing activity

[minor aspen]

i see. from my perspective it would be teleport-creep and not really healthy

[fringe fjord]

what is teleport creep

[echo harness]

"makes wildy clues marginally less annoying and makes the wildy line irrelevant" is probably not worth the dev time or precedent

[fringe fjord]

would imagine making an item like it does not require much more than 5 minutes of dev time considering the mechanics already exist in game in dmm

[minor aspen]

Power creep for teleportation

[granite sphinx]

the fact that i can get anywhere in the wildy in 20s or less

from edgeville

[minor aspen]

For example, getting around with sailing you are reminded how powerful teleports are

[echo harness]

I

[fringe fjord]

i enjoy teleport creep

[echo harness]

m mostly reminded on how boring not teleporting is, from sailing

[fringe fjord]

the wilderness should be convenient if anything it barely has any pros to doing it over non wilderness constent already lol

[minor aspen]

Ruining my immersive roleplaying experience 😤😤

[echo harness]

the wildy doesn't need to be easier to escape from without any effort imo

it's already too easy tbh

[granite sphinx]

sorta... maybe, idk it also causes problems with them developing content. For instance you cant really do stuff like "oh you'd want to stay at X place for a long while and stack up your loot" unless you force people to stay there by some other mechanic

cuz theyd just bank in 10s and immediately be back if they ever get a good drop

[fringe fjord]

doesnt make it easier

[minor aspen]

But yeah i get it, i would be hurting without my teleports

[echo harness]

eh, not having to leave wherever you are is safer, which is more or less the same thing

[fringe fjord]

bro the only content where this is relevant is scorpia, chaos ely and agility lol

all other content is in 25 and you use pod

maybe the damn pirate boat keys

but if its 20 second uninterrupted you could also just hop to f2p

[echo harness]

tbh most of the wildy is so dead that none of it is really dangerous, but it's the principle of the matter

[fringe fjord]

the wilderness is literally filled with obelisks to make it convenient

just the way back is annoying

love teleport creep

give me more teleports for my nexus

i never want to walk ever again thats for poor people

[minor aspen]

Horseback riding next skill

[next sequoia]

Part of the reason why multi fights didn't have a ragging problem back in the old days. Ease of access of the wilderness wasn't there, you actually had to run back. Not use PoH nexus to every teleport spot imagineable in the game.

Didn't have burning amulets, etc. Just obelisk mainly

[fringe fjord]

i have so many reddit cry threads written about me by multi rev clans ragging was very much possible

[next sequoia]

No, I'm talking about original 2007 days

Ehh nvm

[fringe fjord]

think you might be mistaking the era

there was not much ragging pre eoc in general not specifically at revs

but remember we were teenagers back then

[next sequoia]

Yeah was a much different time

[fringe fjord]

this a comment that was posted in one of the threads about multi rev ragging

''Imagine a 50- that's right folks, five-zero man team and getting absolutely bodied by a guy with a 180k weapon. His bones litter their cash dungeon and stink up the place like onions and it makes them cry. They hate to click on him all at once and one shot him with bronze bolts because of how humiliating it is to be social engineered into murder while they peacefully rake in the dough. This team of players in max gear has absolutely no way to defend themselves against the equivalent of the goblin revenant and they need action ASAP. Jamflex please respond before their discord blows up even further and Josh starts throwing the n word around again

edit: for the love of god and all that is holy... this man has gone too fucking far. the psychopath mentioned in the OP has used 20k nightmare zone points and imbued his crystal bow such that it retains its unstoppable takedown power regardless of how many charges remain on the bow. This is just too fucked up that he would further enhance the already BEST in SLOT wilderness range weapon and completely destroy 50 defenseless maxed players much like Durial321 did when he massacred innocents in falador. peace be upon them''

it always makes me laugh

in osrs multi revs were very much constant rag wars

[minor aspen]

🦍 warfare

[fringe fjord]

pre eoc rigour and augury were also 1 def

nobody ever complained btw

korasi was also like 10 or 13 def

what is the lowest level you can get barrows gloves at nowdays

is it below 40 yet

[winged thorn]

not rly wat ur talking about but same lines, i think we need a tele to dwarves/vetion area

ty

[iron cobalt]

hey

[winged thorn]

hey

[iron cobalt]

gn

[fringe fjord]

might go for venenatis pet while anti pking

[wide crater]

Would absolutely have to be a long cast otherwise it makes ancients completely obsolete at that point. Imagine having to cape/tbs at every point in wilderness lol thatd be ass

[safe marten]

I can

't react so

[safe marten]

👍

[tropic root]

PvM delves are a greater high risk high reward system than the wilderness

[wide crater]

When someone said something about sticking around longer, i almost wonder how a wilderness delve boss would pan out 😂

[fringe fjord]

Outlast bosses don't do well in the wilderness because being caught with half supplies sucks

[naive ore]

Easter 2026 & PvP QoL Improvements

[brazen fox]

LFG

[naive ore]

pvp minigames and bh changes, updates to pj system in pvp world and wilderness boss changes

[brazen fox]

Sick

The "Max/Med" account build's Attack, Defence and Prayer levels are increased to 99.
Plus decent gear w00t

Altho personally would’ve liked mystics to start with in lms still 🤣

[naive ore]

The spawn location after leaving Venenatis, Callisto and Vet'ion have been slightly altered to place players above ground. You will still be placed in close proximity to the escape cave entrances if you would like to use those to escape any PKers hunting you.

so you no longer have to go through escape caves

[granite sphinx]

While this is good - it’s taken like three years and is also such a strange bandaid fix that I almost don’t even understand it lol. Nonetheless good

[brazen fox]

ye i always thought escape caves were weird

[minor aspen]

why is black d hide so tanky even from 60 def 😵

[minor aspen]

daaaang just now seeing the update, this is poggererererererser

"The placement of the Elder Chaos Druids at the Zombie Pirates have been slightly adjusted so that players passing by get teleblocked less frequently."

this one is nice too

otherwise, fair updates

[naive ore]

sailing update making boat pvp look even more scary... can max around 140 with dragon cannon after update

[fringe fjord]

Added a toggle to disable Combat XP at Castle Wars, Soul Wars, TzHaar Fight Pits and Clan Wars. These toggles can be accessed as follows:
Castle Wars: Right-click Lanthus
Soul Wars: Talk to Nomad
TzHaar Fight Pits: Talk to TzHaar-Mej-Kah
Clan Wars: Right-click the white or purple portal

still no pvp world toggle

[fringe fjord]

its not the hide itself

defence is just giga OP in pvp unlike pvm which is funny

'offensive is defence' holds more true for pvm than pvp

because most modern boss damage is avoided with prayers and movement

60 defence + super combat pot = 74 + piety which is 25% = 92.5

[granite sphinx]

Yeah honestly super weird to put it in all those places but not PvP worlds or the Wildy lol

[naive ore]

I think they want to keep "risk" pvp meta same, so people dont complain about their extra couple hp or mage levels increasing combat lvl

[fringe fjord]

i think there's also another added 8+ from effective defence level so it's essentially 100 not 92 even

[fringe fjord]

low hp builds have never been good and the lack of a toggle has never prevented them either

its just annoying and causes people to level their low combat accounts out of the bracket they enjoy

[granite sphinx]

Not to mention if you make an unofficial group Ironman you can legit buy supplies anyway and already use that feature to stay low level

[fringe fjord]

yeah

its stupid to have ironmen have a stranglehold over no xp in combat in pvp worlds and the wilderness

[acoustic lion]

More pvp arena rewards please

[subtle igloo]

Damn a whole days worth of unpolled pvp updates by the most out of touch regarded pvp game devs.

[fringe fjord]

they dont poll qol usually

altho

In PvP areas, if you have not attacked another player in the last 20 ticks (12 seconds), swapping between weapons will retain any autocast settings that have been set. This should improve Wilderness Slayer tasks where Burst and Barrage spells are used.

this was long due

[granite sphinx]

I mean I’d say like 95% of the changes are inconsequential, and then the 5% extra are like on the right track but lackluster

[naive ore]

hidden buff to ironman abusing blighted resources in pvp worlds

[fringe fjord]

all 3 ironmen that dont have ptsd from getting pked by a pure in 2006 are welcoming this change with open arms

[naive ore]

i guess some normal accounts could also do stuff in pvp world for lower cost

[fringe fjord]

cost aint lower when you die sometimes

[bleak trout]

why didnt jagex add revenants safespot removeal from game updated page 😮

[granite sphinx]

dw its mostly an hcim feature, so im sure itll get put back

[minor aspen]

someone come pk callisto with me, theres a team killing callisto iv been hunting solo on total worlds

mostly 1 def accounts

its the team that all has guthix in their name to try and avoid skulling xd

[tropic root]

ARGH I thought this was what I thought it was and I thought it was going to be great but now they just made staff settings not only inconsistent between PvM and PvP, but now also it can be inconsistent in the middle of just using an item

ffs

[granite sphinx]

https://klipy.com/gifs/absolutely-not-nope-1

@minor aspen

[minor aspen]

im farming them

running tbs/tangle solo vs barrage is rough tho

[granite sphinx]

yea extremely brutal

part of why i never rly pked there

alongside escape caves sucking and every1 quitting lol

[minor aspen]

its way better rn

so nice not having to go thru escape caves

[granite sphinx]

that i believe

[naive ore]

from what i heard exiting the boss lair now puts you in same spot every time instead of random spot inside escape caves. So there is no rng everyone trying to escape always end up at the same spot, which would make it easy to camp

[granite sphinx]

https://klipy.com/gifs/omegalul-lul

thats kinda hilarious

[minor aspen]

it spits you out in scattered spots in the middle of the poison spiders

[fringe fjord]

Setting up my cctv scout right away

[naive ore]

there is some variation at least so not absolutely terrible

from limited testing its 3 different hotspot where players are sent to when they exit any of the caves

each marked tile is where i ended up

basically large teams could abuse it (almost like the old exit caves i guess) when but not as bad as single spot where everyone exits

i wonder if there is some time based system or does it give free gap if solo/small group of pkers get rng roll to different hotspot

[winged thorn]

Yeah so easy to camp inside the escape caves that does typeless damage 25/8

[naive ore]

update made it so you are teleported outside when you exit. poison spiders still outside but no more typeless damage

[granite sphinx]

man cant ping the rot disc fast enough after reading that

[naive ore]

escape capes basically useless, unless some pvmer is stupid enough to try enter one to juke pker

[winged thorn]

Wait lol it tele’s you outside of caves?

[minor aspen]

well you can use it to spam in and out to juke

[winged thorn]

Missed that lol

So can we delete the escape caves then..?

[naive ore]

the image above is 3 exit hotspots from my testing

exiting any boss puts you randomly in one of those 3 hotspots instead of escape cave

[granite sphinx]

we could.... idk why they didnt lol

[minor aspen]

dang i think i just solo bullied this team off callisto in the total worlds

#word on top

#controlling

[radiant canopy]

You sure about that? I just tried it, and 6/6 times I exited the Callisto cave I wound up in the same hotspot area, all within a 6 tile radius of each other. Never got sent to one of the other hotspots you marked

[naive ore]

for me it could teleport into any of those 3 from any of the bosses

most common the north east one

[radiant canopy]

even so, still dumb af. At least before you could warn your group if there was a clan at one of the exits

or all pile up right at the exit and leave at the same time

[granite sphinx]

i really am gonna need a heater of a multi clan video today before they inevitably change this again too

[minor aspen]

had to get off for now but callisto pking was hella fun today. killed a bunch of people, fought small teams, good stuff goin on out there rn

pull up with your boys

can't be understated how nice it feels to be able to leave the cave and keep your resources

and not spam food thru escape caves

[latent relic]

Has anyone checked to see if you can still regain stats and spec from hopping worlds in LMS lobby? I see you can't lose skull but curious on spec restore

Also max/med should start with Abby dagger instead of dds

[next sequoia]

Jagex is so strange with pvp. They can put out all of these changes unpolled completely randomly with no prior discussion, but can't do the same with other pvp updates. Like they still gotta poll some things, but other things they don't apparently

[latent relic]

Multi revs should be a PvP QOL update

[minor aspen]

QOD quality of DEATH

[subtle igloo]

Already re-rolling their short sided unpolled pvp changes

Imagine we just got charged more monthly for this dogshit quality too lmfaooo

[minor aspen]

what would be wilderness/pvp QOL for you?

[naive ore]

they read suggestion about removing escape caves and acted on that, people just did not like the end result. they could have made opinion poll but people would start riots about it too

very hard to opinion poll or poll every single small change

[minor aspen]

as someone who spent a few hours there today, I like it a lot better - it's a move in the right direction 🙂

[minor aspen]

holy cow nvm they reverted it wtf

broooo

noooooooooooooooooo

[forest kraken]

why revert it tho?

[minor aspen]

idk it's not clear

https://discordapp.com/channels/324132423636090880/615203531028168704/1486362572704972880

cant tell if its because bug or what

[forest kraken]

they made a good change then reverted it with no explanation

ty jagex

[sacred torrent]

was a bad change, major advantage to multi teams

[forest kraken]

too easy to camp the same spot?

[sacred torrent]

the spots rotate just like how escape cave spawn does, but you could flush people out with 0 punishment of sitting in escape caves

[minor aspen]

i think it's a good balance change

otherwise its too safe

if teams are there, teams will fight eachother

this is good

[forest kraken]

there will be no teams tho if the multi bosses re impossible to escape

becasue there will be no pvmers

[minor aspen]

we would have found out wouldn't we

but we won't find that out if they just change things instantly

[forest kraken]

the hastiness of the change makes it seem like there was some sort of bug

[jade ledge]

Depends, the old one or game jam

[sacred torrent]

with escape caves pkers have to split to cover escape cave exits and chasing people out of the boss

[jade ledge]

Teambuilding

[latent relic]

What was the reason for keeping the escape caves but having you leave outside

[minor aspen]

with escape caves ppl dont like to pk here, so theres a balance

[minor aspen]

seemed like to give people the option to use them

[granite sphinx]

sorry to ping but @bitter sage is there any like backup reason why the change got reverted today? Like can we expect they may still spare us from the escape caves, but expand the different areas you get ported outside of escape caves going forward?

we cant stand the escape caves lol

[fast cradle]

jamflex lol

[scenic hare]

You cannot no longer remove skull without joining a lms match and leaving it.

Bad update

[latent relic]

Should just assign a different exit cave to each boss

[forest kraken]

would be nice to get an explanation tbh

[sacred torrent]

does gauntlet still remove skull?

[granite sphinx]

i assume mains can still just die to galvek? if so now we're just getting another pure spite update

[scenic hare]

Galvek still works

[forest kraken]

or just use f2p lms?

[scenic hare]

Gotta do ds2 on med accounts

[forest kraken]

whats wrong with just using lms

better than doing sote or ds2 on all ur accounts

[granite sphinx]

bro thank god i stopped like normally pking lol

thatd be so annoying to deal w/

[naive ore]

pvmers kept complaining pkers can wait outside in the exit spot so they had to revert it

[forest kraken]

sounds about right

pvmers getting killed in the wildy? that needs to stop

[naive ore]

actually it improved pvmers chance of escaping if teams did not have 3-6 players waiting outside split into 3 different locations

[forest kraken]

glad I finished wildy on my iron tbh

[naive ore]

for solo/duo pkers it would have probably been hell getting rng gapped by someone exiting

[forest kraken]

whos solo pking at the multi bosses

that's dumb as hell tbh they deserve to lose kills

[sacred torrent]

plenty of people solo pk at multibosses, teams of unskullers are easy pickings

[brazen fox]

Wait they reverted it?

Escape caves were so annoying man

[minor aspen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/5cDGWuTWxD

[forest kraken]

well we shouldnt be catering to solo pkers in multi spots that's just a fact

[naive ore]

exiting cave now put you back into escape caves, logging out still teleport outside the caves

[brazen fox]

What

[minor aspen]

Dam i had to dig into Reddit to find this, made me relapse

[brazen fox]

Escape caves suck

[minor aspen]

“0 chance to escape” not true at all so dumb

[brazen fox]

Also like idk already a thing that some teams have ppl outside the escape caves?

It’s just extra time they have to tank ?!?!?!

They gotta tank typeless damage

Holy

[sacred torrent]

The change they reverted catered to multi pkers lol idk why you think it would be good for pvmers

[minor aspen]

We’re cooked if they reverting stuff like this on a dime

[brazen fox]

New version was so much better for pvmers

[spiral nimbus]

hope next dmm is singles

[brazen fox]

Bcos u got insta teled to a random spot

[spiral nimbus]

and not that goofy shit again

[naive ore]

new version was better for pvmers, unless team had 6 players waiting outside then it is same as before

[brazen fox]

And u didn’t have to run through escape caves, get frozen, and tank typeless damage

[sacred torrent]

the spots were not random, it was 3 locations that were on a rotating cycle. just like how escape caves worked

[forest kraken]

so why are all the pvpers complaining they changed it back if it was so good for pvmers?

genuine question as I didnt try it

[naive ore]

pkers did not like having to run through escape caves everytime they had to hop to different world, which is understandable

[brazen fox]

Cuz escape caves sucked to run through and u had to take Stam and antipoison etc

[forest kraken]

so it was better for both?

[brazen fox]

Ye also u got ur supps hella drained every time

[forest kraken]

doesnt seem right

[brazen fox]

Ye

It was legit just easier

Pvmers need to tank less

Pkers get to waste less time

[forest kraken]

bro if u arent taking stam and antipoison out with u...

what is going on lol

[naive ore]

the biggest downside for pvmers was that pkers can check more worlds faster, which shouldnt really be considered

[brazen fox]

Ye so what’s the issue? If it’s rotating then there’s not gonna be 10 people insta clumping outside

Also pkers hopping into caves already get insta clumped by pvmers

If they actually click the white dots

They can clear any team

🤣

[minor aspen]

yeah it's so easy as a "pvmer" if you're in a team you just fight back lol, but they want their safe pvp zone or something

give me dangerous pvp zone 😡

[brazen fox]

U can tell when ppl never tried to clear Latin wild before

Pvmers strong

[spiral nimbus]

crazy to think there are people who dont even try to pray when getting pked

[small void]

why is it crazy?

[sacred torrent]

skulled mass callisto is not the same..

[small void]

if im going to lose why waste my time and lose for longer?

[spiral nimbus]

how u know u gonna lose tho

[icy elm]

waste of energy. They know it's not a pvm encounter where the opponent follows a specific pattern

[brazen fox]

It is tho, like I personally know groups that do Callisto for the pvm content specifically, but they have an agreement that they are prepared to skull and barrage entrance

Because that gives safety

[small void]

because im probablty going up against someone with 10x more play time in pvp

[brazen fox]

They’re all pvmers

[small void]

and thats being generous to me

[spiral nimbus]

all u gotta do is eat and pray

[brazen fox]

Multi doesn’t matter

[spiral nimbus]

and run

[forest kraken]

doesnt mean you just bend over and die lol, not hard to defedn yourself at all

[brazen fox]

U got numbers and u got them clumped at entrance

[spiral nimbus]

2 f clicks

[brazen fox]

Ur doing literally 10x more damage PER PLAYER on ur side

[spiral nimbus]

so if u get punched irl

[forest kraken]

most multi players are 🐶 💩

[brazen fox]

If u outnumber them too

[spiral nimbus]

u jus gon sit there

[brazen fox]

Then u win any fight

Literally

[minor aspen]

yeah esp since when people go in the cave they are praying range, and everyone has a tham scepter lol

[brazen fox]

Even rcb ancient staff groups skulling up r a threat

Only way to clear is to return

[hollow fiber]

I clear those noobs all the time

[minor aspen]

i'm so bummed out man

[small void]

also this is kinda funny, when the majority of pkers are looking to kill people who wont fight back

[minor aspen]

i thought it was about to get lit at calli

[brazen fox]

Yee u gotta return tho that’s what am saying

[small void]

its an interesting angle to come from, for sure

[forest kraken]

this is such a dumb take and spoken like someone whos never pked

[brazen fox]

Ppl acting like it’s impossible to win the fights when it’s harder to lose them

[brazen fox]

No toxic plz

[forest kraken]

most multi teams id say 90%+ want clean action, not to fight afk bots

[brazen fox]

We help u kill them if u want

Just don’t flame us

[spiral nimbus]

??

[hollow fiber]

A lot of people who don't know the clan world talking in here like they do

[forest kraken]

yeah its boring

can u guys go back to game updates or something

[spiral nimbus]

when are we getting ak 47s to pvp with?

[naive ore]

majority of people pking in wilderness do go after gp but it really comes down to what you consider pker since you also got the salad robe warriors doing singles pking to include

[small void]

unfortunatly we have to include them

[forest kraken]

when I was clanning a lot we would always rather run into another team who might have toxic staff +1s etc rather than another ironman risking bone crossbow and maybe a dscim

its logical cmon

[hollow fiber]

Same people crying about getting killed at alter running bones while simultaneously getting the increased exp/hour

[naive ore]

there are a lot of people who would prefer actual pvp but i still think majority would be going after* gp if you combine every one killing players inside wilderness

[hollow fiber]

The im not good at pking so make it easier for me to not get pked schtick while in a dangerous part of a game is illogical

Also #Free2/3

[brazen fox]

Where he go

[granite sphinx]

i guess we still have the fight pits updates from today right fellas?!

[naive ore]

only the wilderness boss escape cave got reverted, unless some of the broken parts like mobs being able to wander anywhere on map were part of fight pits code

[halcyon kraken]

You can’t pk lil bro 😭

[spiral nimbus]

no way

🤣

[halcyon kraken]

🤪🤪

[halcyon kraken]

Let’s hold hands and multi tonight 🤝

[spiral nimbus]

main is permed

tryna return

w some old acc

life is tuff rn gng

[halcyon kraken]

can’t imagine you of all people being permd 😔

[spiral nimbus]

fax vro

[teal lagoon]

Man JAGEX NEEDS TO FIX PVP ALREADY IDGAF WHAT THEY DO JUST FIX IT ALREADY I swear!! I am so tired of being RAM RANCHED at venenatis trying to farm some gp for a bond…. Get there iron having asses out there

[granite sphinx]

literally sitting here thinking... man itd be fun to go pk someone rn

but then look @ the game and go oh... nvm

i hate that i still want to love the game but just cant 🙁

[spiral nimbus]

@halcyon krakenu acc play osrs

[halcyon kraken]

ye only game I’ve been on for a minute

[spiral nimbus]

nice

[hollow fiber]

Someone needed to flex their online power

[jade ledge]

Ill be cannoning in the wildy slayer cave in 5 min and DTF

@hollow fiber ?

[jade ledge]

Remove before mod sees

[spiral nimbus]

?\

[jade ledge]

Not allowed to reference to rsps

[spiral nimbus]

bro

07 = osrs

[jade ledge]

Js

[halcyon kraken]

We ain’t talking about private servers fam we talkin about OSRS 🫡

[jade ledge]

.

[winged thorn]

Agree

[granite sphinx]

We talkn bout practice

Not a game

https://tenor.com/view/practice-wetalkingaboutpractice-alleniverson-ai-nba-gif-5110854

[scarlet tree]

“The answer”

[kind narwhal]

does cosmetic refund work in deep wild

[west bough]

if I want to anti in the rev caves would it be better to do it at knights/hellhounds or orks? I feel like orks sees more traffic but if I'm on lunars they can just tp away

[minor aspen]

try both see where you get more success, but i would say orks

if ur veng pking then ur trying to burst them anyway not outlast so tp doesnt matter as much

[west bough]

yeah I did try knights for a while two days ago but saw no one

would it be better to bring veng or a mage swap and tbs?

[granite sphinx]

def think orcs have the most traffic, just trying to time it on their spec timer where they cant tele/wwhen they do the most dmg on your veng is the biggest skill factor

[west bough]

gotcha, guess I gotta try predict a spec and time my venge

[granite sphinx]

def the best way to do it yeah

also the mechanic where like if you eat 3-4 (i forget which) food in a row, without attacking, your following attack won't be food delayed. So you can like double eat and spec in 1 tick

albeit it isnt easy to do lol

[west bough]

huh, I had no idea this was even a thing. interesting, but I'm probably not skilled enough to take advantage lol

[granite sphinx]

yeah tbf im not either, but if you keep an eye on some of like the westham anti videos, or gompie's or anything thats how they use this

they just take a ton of damage, double eat and then spec on their venge

[west bough]

interesting, I'll take a look. thanks!

[granite sphinx]

np brotherman

[west bough]

also I assume I'd be a much nicer target skulled yeah? but that would limit the gear I can bring quite heavily as well

[granite sphinx]

yeah id say maybe go with something that looks more juicy unskulled while learning (craws bow or something that has risk regardless) and then maybe once you get a bit more into it can figure out a skulled setup

but yeah people will usually assume unskullers have an anti setup

[west bough]

ah yeah maybe unskulled webweaver is the play. I'd take bowfa but that makes it hilariously obvious what I'm doing

[granite sphinx]

yeah plus its a tick slower i think so little harder to use

at least if ur gonna run in and yolo stack someone, but for the wait, venge and try to anti it doesnt really matter which

[brazen fox]

Yeah if ur on lunars u gotta catch them off guard at orks but u get more opportunities to anti

[brazen fox]

Unskull webweaver is the play Yh

U gna have to pretend ur giga noob

I like to wear ranging cape

[west bough]

luckily, there is no need to pretend :)

[granite sphinx]

also make sure u have skull prev on - or people like me are coming for u 😈

[west bough]

oh for sure, I always check that before I go wildy haha

[brazen fox]

Trust me you’ll be surprised at how many ppl don’t hit u for the tiniest reasons

If u stand still when they log in

They hop

No cap

U legit need to run back and forth

🤣

[west bough]

LMAO

well, I'll send the webweaver unskull setup and see how it goes. just going to bring a webweaver with ags+suffering and see what happens. cheers for the help

[brazen fox]

My boy made 1b from anti pking revs he shared his setup

[granite sphinx]

give us a shout if you get any kills out there

[brazen fox]

He did dragons but similar vibe

[west bough]

oh do you have his setup? I'd be curious to see

[granite sphinx]

and this is why i force people to use spec b4 i try to skull trick them

would be a fat -700m for me otherwise

[brazen fox]

Yh the ranging cape and guthix D’hide seals the vibe

Spec bar on webweaver is 🔥

[west bough]

thanks! ags+vw must be diabolical. gonna run with just ags for now but will definitely keep it in mind

[brazen fox]

Yee just so they can’t pray mage/melee only for safety

U can vw then ags

As a +1 gmaul is a shout

If ags only

[granite sphinx]

2 much for brainlets like me but very true

[west bough]

right, I'll experiment and see what works. I sucked ass at ags gmaul when I tried it last but it's probably a matter of practice

[brazen fox]

U can practice in white portal etc

U don’t need to click opponent after btw

Ags click opponent gmaul spec bar

[west bough]

oh after the gmaul? it just goes off? neat. will try practicing if I bring the gmaul out

[winged thorn]

Yes

Fun fact, gmaul to ags works the same way as well for the initial gmaul
For the ags to go off you have to click your target still

[brazen fox]

Ye if ur in range of someone u just damaged it’ll auto go off

[open grove]

Vspear buff without addressing the elephant of voidwaker

🥀

[next sequoia]

I don't understand the timing of it either. It's really strange lol

I guess jagex is like... "Hmm, Time to update pvp things" no heads up or anything. They just do it

[granite sphinx]

and then immediately revert their decision like woah we didnt expect people to be angy abou it

[next sequoia]

Can't say I can complain, I'd rather them just do stuff than poll everything. If they randomly add a brand new activity or update, I'm fine with that

[scenic hare]

Just done ds2 on my med account, because of lms skull update

[granite sphinx]

im sry to hear that

[next sequoia]

Rev safespot is heavily botted and ive tried getting them to remove it for a long time. Bots just auto log out at insane speeds

[next sequoia]

Did they finally fix it?

[scenic hare]

@granite sphinx Its done, just cant play on my dark bow accounts or any lower level accounts

[granite sphinx]

wym the lms change?

[scenic hare]

Just gotta get use to it

u cant get urself unskulled anymore at lms

[granite sphinx]

cant say it really affects me at all, i havent seen dbow accounts or low levels since pre-pj timer

[scenic hare]

Back to the old times, i guess.

Or galvek

[next sequoia]

Just took them many years to realize that the Escape cave design was poor. Did it really help pvmers escape pkers? Not really

[scenic hare]

Been doing lms unskulling 20-50 times at ferox everyday after ferox income, just gotta get use to galvek unskulling.

Going to quit playing pures.

Mostly at rune rocks

[next sequoia]

There was already no pvmers before this change. Can't lose what we already don't have

[minor aspen]

well there actually are a bunch of pvmers, mostly mass groups from what i've experienced. i do often see the same names though so it might not be that many

[naive ore]

it made them feel like they could control the out come by leaving through the exit they wanted but resulted in needing to tank while taking 5 damage per sec from typeless projectiles. teams could camp exits the same way as the teleport outside when exiting

[brazen fox]

U tried skulling

[scenic hare]

@brazen fox Yes, but i dont run skulled every place/time

[minor aspen]

the most frustrating part for me is that they wouldn't monitor the change as far as how it affected the balance of the ecosystem, and if it incentivized team fights

like, worst case scenario is yeah there are less pvmers and therefore less inflation

i hate the term "pvmer" btw, many of the teams i crashed in callisto today were fighting too

[brazen fox]

Yh but if ur gna skull up then skull up no?

[scenic hare]

@brazen foxDepends much about a enemy

And account

[next sequoia]

Yeah... I don't get why pvmers would want to keep escape caves. It just makes it harder for you to tank pkers while also taking Chip damage from the mobs inside + being poisoned. It's counterproductive?....

Why would they want to keep it

It makes it worse for them. Lmao

[naive ore]

the biggest benefit pvmers get from the caves is pkers giving up after few world hops because the caves are annoying

[next sequoia]

But they're not going to give up anymore because they fixed the world hopping annoyance

[minor aspen]

yeah after they reverted the changes i went for a few more runs then just left, its so dumb

[next sequoia]

I need to log in and see the changes because I'm not sure

[naive ore]

you can world hop/log out inside boss layer to be outside (not in caves) when you log back in

but that means killing the boss to get out of combat

or insta hopping

[next sequoia]

Also why didn't they fix the vet'ion and calvarion out of combat BS. Basically you're considered out of combat if you dodge the lightning. You can just log out. Can't log out at any of the other wildy bosses, only vet'ion. They need to fix that

[next sequoia]

Yes that's a change I wanted. It makes things way less annoying

[brazen fox]

Yh I understand I just conceptually disagree that someone should be able to keep all the advantages of being unskulled but still skull up when they find a suitably easy target

If ur gna skull then just skull

Risk ur items like everyone else

[scenic hare]

Im currently standing at spindel gave on my med account and playing on main

[next sequoia]

Disagree. There are times where I like picking my targets, not getting attacked by some guy in max by unskulling helps me do that

[scenic hare]

What will happen, if im skulled up, probably end up getting full tbed/afk

[brazen fox]

🤷 guy in max is risking his stuff

[next sequoia]

So what. There are targets where you just don't want to fight them. I personally hate fighting bowfa crystal max megatrons

[brazen fox]

Like I seen streamers making content out of rushing pvmers in crazy “risk” but it’s in 4 item and they hit skulled ursine etc

Just cringe concept

[brazen fox]

Yeah that’s an annoying set to face but freeze log

Like everyone else

Like legit if my man would rather stop playing his pures than risk a 900k dbow idk

[next sequoia]

Right. Only to get ragged for brews, go bank, come back and they instantly attack you again

No thanks

Unskulling stops them.

[brazen fox]

Just dump specs try ko them if fail then bank

That’s a positive eV trade

[next sequoia]

It is, but also garbage for both people. Just creates toxic habits

[brazen fox]

I mean that’s what ur doing anyway right

Ur chilling til u find someone

Then u attack

If they get away u go unskull

Someone is just doing it to you🤣

[next sequoia]

I follow and ask them to gl... i don't rag people

We mutually skull

Don't assume things

[forest kraken]

Well that’s compete bs, they’re definitely less popular than multi revs, but I was at vettion all of last weekend and most worlds had pvmers in and I saw like 10+ different teams hop around

[scenic hare]

I died to @next sequoia several times while my 200m hunter journey. Fun fights

[brazen fox]

I don’t think attacking someone in the wilderness with intent to kill them in itself is ragging but that’s fine if u wanna play like that

But idk the wildy is supposed to be dangerous and ur supposed to be attentive. That’s the reason I supported player alarm removal thread and am not gna change my principle just cuz a pker wants to be safer

Unfortunately ppl better than us or in better gear are gonna be out there, that’s the fun of it

[scenic hare]

Basic day is 10-250m profit in a day, i dont wanna ruin it.

[brazen fox]

We gotta try improve, try kill them, or try get away

[brazen fox]

But u can’t risk 900k dbow?

[scenic hare]

I wont risk that much.

[brazen fox]

Okie yeah I just fundamentally think that’s problematic

[next sequoia]

Consider me surprised.

[scenic hare]

680K setup for killing +200m gears , thats my style.

I dont have many kills on my main, only like 14K, but havent died with +20m gear.

Changed my ironman to pk account, so i can do 200m skills for free on main

[brazen fox]

Ye I mean I don’t think am gna change my mind that that’s cringe gameplay that u don’t wanna risk a 900k bow and you wanna have ur cake and eat it with skulling

If u wanna play that way then fine but I think it’s problematic and the lms changes are good in principle

[scenic hare]

I collect everything, altar bones to max brids

[brazen fox]

Am happy for u man

U found a good niche for solid money

Gotta respect that

[scenic hare]

One week of pking is worth of one year of p2p bonds, ofc its worth it.

[next sequoia]

I solo pk at multi bosses sometimes, also pk with my team. If pvmers want to keep their escape caves, hey idc. It makes it easier for me and buffs my dps on them. What I cared about was hopping within a boss cave and it automatically throwing me into the escape caves to take chip damage and run all the way back. Seems they fixed it so I'm glad

Dumb of pvmers to want the escape caves, it's just counterproductive entirely.

They should have asked for something different for escaping.

[scenic hare]

I dont even know how to balance this pvp system, other than nerfing the weapons/armors

[forest kraken]

I mean I don’t think jagex consulted any pvmers on the escape cave

Because no one likes that shit

People just complained that the new setup was bad

[naive ore]

they saw few loud players complaining, not really consultation. Like the 1st thing i also saw was someone saying you always get teleported to the same spot, when i tested i had 3 different teleport hotspots similar to the escape cave system i think

[scenic hare]

Northwest spawn and ur doomed

[brazen fox]

Ur still tanking less than the current escape cave system

[forest kraken]

Anyway how is this all we got in terms of a pvp update

When was the last pvp update other than dmm like 2 years ago?

Give us MULTI REVS ffs

[naive ore]

the funny thing is that people are now asking jagex to allow them to lock xp in pest control because it was allowed in pvp minigames

[forest kraken]

Pest control isn’t PvP though

[naive ore]

i think they want to make it easier to train certain stat there with the xp reward from points. like 10hp 99 str account

[minor aspen]

release multi revs
people(?) complain, pvpcord celebrates
revert it 3 hours later no explanation

[scenic hare]

Seasonal single/multi revs, blah.

I make my 200man squad and rush out once again. Everyone wants single revs back.

Gotta be single or both.

[brazen fox]

Idm update was nice and lms/arena kinda popping off today

And it shows they’re paying attention to minor feedback we are giving so that’s the big W

[minor aspen]

facts, i'm just being a salty and squaky wheel

someone's gotta do it (i think?)

[iron cobalt]

hey

[minor aspen]

hey

[snow atlas]

Wish arenas matchmaking was better and maybe some halo ornament kits for seasonal ranks

Did emirs arena get lightbearer? I havent been able to check

[brazen fox]

I believe so yh

Sesh some ppl there unranked duels 🙂

You’ll fight some demons

[pallid sorrel]

They should just let us buy surge sacks

Water/earth/air sacks too

Most people that complain about PvP don't even pvp

[whole grove]

What are the strongest spec weapons at 60ATK, is there an updated list somewhere? Something to use with gmaul?

[wide crater]

Claws, dds, gmaul for melee spec. New weapons coming out when new quests get released

[whole grove]

Do you know if it’s worth taking the CB hit and going up to 75 to use the god sword, like the LMS setup gives you?

[whole grove]

Basically it’s the ++ dragon dagger spec, followed by Gmaul (with handle), is that the meta?

[wide crater]

I cant speak on if its worth it or not tbh i dont pure pk as much as some others here. They could probably give much better insight on that than i could. I will say at 75 attack you unlock a LOT more than just the armadyl godsword. Youll have ancient godsword, voidwaker, and tsod as well

If i didnt already have 75 attack on my pure, right at this moment with new weapons coming out i would personally wait tho. I might even make a new one to keep at 60 lol

[iron cobalt]

hey

[inner dew]

new reddit brainrot dropped

[whole grove]

I kinda feel that cause I’m trying to do 60 and I don’t see a huge benefit at 75, can you tell me what else is there? Like is it more successful than 60 build if you have any thoughts

It’d be cool to consider 80 too but at that bracket it’s harder

[inner dew]

theres the Arkan blade but i have no idea about the quest to get it but i assume its doable

its 60 atk, upgrade from dds from what i can tell

[minor aspen]

“More Successful than..” what are you trying to do or aim for?

[whole grove]

Basically what’s more fun, 60Atk or 75atk pure PvP

[inner dew]

" today's change as I understand it was largely intended to make it less frustrating to hop through and find worlds or for folks to find fights" -jmod

limited number of wilderness worlds when?

[wide crater]

Hey bro, it may not be the exact answer we want, but at least its something we have brought up. Now we just need people to keep talking and pushing for things that we actually want

[inner dew]

ags is like twice as accurate as dds but cost 2x the spec bar so

[next sequoia]

Jagex does read feedback. It just takes a long long long.... Long time for them to make changes.

[inner dew]

if ur fighting pures u dont care as much about accuracy tho obviously, i just threw in some calcs vs what i imagine a rev pvmer is wearing

[whole grove]

I’m not even pvping yet I’m just learning and planning ahead, gonna do some LMS to grind out a rune pouch and granite maul handle and go from there

I just need some guidance figuring out what kinda weapons/60 or 75 attack to end up at

It’s hard to know for sure without getting there but I think I’ll keep reading/playing

LMS at least lets you trial 75atk

[whole grove]

And I assume pure PVP 60Atk shouldn’t be too bad, feels ok?

[inner dew]

u can start as 50 atk even

[whole grove]

Do you know anything about def levels for meds? Is 75 or 80def better? Gonna make a med at some point

It used to be 75/75 but idk if people do 82/75

Idk if 80def adds anything

[inner dew]

just depends what purpose

[whole grove]

For PvP and general pvm but trying to be strong for pk and not max levels

What do people like using

[inner dew]

i would focus mainly on what build requires least risk and least switches

as a noob

cos something can be objectively stronger but it doesnt matter if its not in the right hands

[winged thorn]

80 gives you torva & masori(?) so if you ever plan to pvm you’ll be able to use those items

[winged thorn]

75 atk you’ll use voidwaker (meta rn) or ags for KO
60 you’re kinda stuck at claws, dds, Abby dagger, gmaul, arkan blade

[wide crater]

Oh yeah good shout forgot about abby dagger

[winged thorn]

I’m pretty sure 75-80 def is still only 1 cb lvl for a med, but I could be wrong

[whole grove]

Yeah I’m learning rn. For 60Atk pure, what gear switches is most important? Like which slots and how many pieces?

I’m guessing weapon chest legs? Maybe an amulet ?

Cape offhand?

Trying to learn and setup an inventory

[whole grove]

Nice I’ll calc it

[wide crater]

For pures youre gonna camp rope top since you cant wear tank. Strictly user preference for other switches can do glory/occult or cape switch with fire cape/ma2. ive never really felt gear switches to be super necessary tho tbh. I can usually run elder chaos hood and robe top, ma2 cape, dhide bottoms, climbing boots combat bracelet/addy gloves, glory, zammy book or now antler guard and only swap weapons and have generally been able to fight most ppl just fine

Thats killing bots and stuff tho, i havent had much experience fighting other pures that are good at singles nhing so thats as far as my knowledge in that bracket goes.

[whole grove]

Thanks for the write up lemme read and consume it.

I’m actually 13 def so I can toss on some black platebody, I guess just add that in

Black plate + black dhide chaps for both melee and range ?

Chaos for magic

[wide crater]

Would probably still camp robes over that. Higher mage def, and waste of space.

[whole grove]

Right

[winged thorn]

Since you’re pking & building your acc at the same time maybe watching a bronze man like series on YouTube would be helpful as well

[whole grove]

Yes that’s a great idea I’ll look it up

[wide crater]

Only benefit im aware of at 13 def is salad robes for cheaper sets and slayer helm

[whole grove]

What’s camp robes?

[wide crater]

Not switchinf from robe top

[whole grove]

Gotcha

[wide crater]

Camping it just means no switches. If you find yourself splashing spells can do a robe bottom switch with your hides, but shouldn’t be too much of a problem

Again dont take my word as the gospel, theres people here that main a pure and could provide a much better breakdown

I did a good deed today folks. I found a hcim in wildy and let him live

[whole grove]

No this is awesome I appreciate it, I’m just setting up an inventory right now so I can practice it, we’ll make changes as we need

[whole grove]

You also taught me some important stuff so two good deeds lol

[wide crater]

Hopefully it works out well for you brother, id practice with salad robes tho since youre 13 def theyre a shit ton cheaper than elder chaos lol

[whole grove]

Yeah I’m making an inventory right now to practice, ignore the pots (not gonna run expensive pots), since im using this in PVM questing.

If I camp robes, then lets say three slots that matter, the most stats would be weapon, legs, cape?? Those the most stats?

I have offhand magebook too, I’m gonna see what stats add up more

I know I’m asking about PvP but will test it out in PVM for now

[rugged crest]

im 44 cb lvl f2p, anyone down to risk fighting?

[wide crater]

I mean there are others that are gonna offer more stats, the items i listed are all mostly for tribrid. Glory/zammy book/antler guard give bonus to all stats. Legs switch would probably be the most beneficial since hides give - mage bonus, but switches are really gonna depend on what youre willing to risk. For pvm you can upgrade almost every slot i mentioned

[whole grove]

Thanks a lot for walking me thru this. I kinda got some ideas and made a draft.

Can you help confirm if my understanding/logic is kinda right? I'll update this as I play more. (Note: this is being used in PVM rn, so I have some weird stuff like (G) and chaos robes, if pvp, ill run cheaper stuff non-trim, salad robes, etc).

Tribrid (weapon/body/legs)
Shared (glory, zammy book, recoil ring, cape?)
Food pots (Shark -> pots (brew/restore + str for PVM -> combo food, sometimes pie first)
Runes cause I don't got a pouch yet
Teleport (my ardy cape)
Two weapons for spec at the bottom.

Long writeup, but I think I have the idea! Anything I'm forgetting/missing?

I can't link my screenshot

Let me try

#game-questions message

I linked the screenshot in the other channel

Also forgot to mention - if I start missing, I just remove feet + helmet probably, yeah?

[wide crater]

You can buy a rune pouch fyi, itll just hold 3 slots instead of 4. But yeah looks decent enough. As you progress there are other things that will be more beneficial, and idk your budget but like i said for pvm you can do some major upgrades. For pvp its a plenty fine startup, but prolly only need one spec weapon since theyre all melee based

[whole grove]

Thanks!! I'm glad I understand the concept, and have a starting inventory.

Weapon wise, I could do well to buy MSB you think? So i have a range spec? I'm a new player so my budget is limited, how much are rune pouches? I might try to get it via LMS practice eventually

[wide crater]

Im not sure, that’s a thing for mains for sure bc our gear has - mage bonus. Youd prolly be camping magic hat/hood. so not necessary

[icy elm]

the ranged swap hardly gonna make a difference.

[whole grove]

damn, that bad huh, makes sense since it's baby gear. so just wear mage robes and range wep?

how bad is wearing def gear (plate/armor) with range atk

just to confirm, ATTACK (range) isn't damage, but rather it's accuracy, is that right?

[icy elm]

yah i'd do that to lower my pressure for learning.

[wide crater]

Oh yeah now that i see your set, id get rid of the range top hes right. Go black dhide or god dhide chaps

[whole grove]

I'm getting black d-hide chaps soon, once I hit 70 (61 range rn), what about the top? I can't do much @ 13 def?

[wide crater]

Nah for top just camp robe tops

No switches

[inner dew]

pures have high/99 magic so they gain huge magic defence just from that alone, so generally ur gonna get more value out of mage bonus

[whole grove]

are my offhand swaps a good idea or not

[wide crater]

Idk the stats on that new defender thing ngl

[inner dew]

weak gear doesnt do alot against accurate/high lvl weapons

[wide crater]

^

[whole grove]

it's a melee str offhand, then swap in zammy book basically

very small diff id imagine

[wide crater]

If youre gonna do that just do antler guard

Its i think 1-2m

It lowers defense tho which is kinda irrelevant on a pure

But you get melee str and accuracy in all styles

[whole grove]

ok, I am understanding, so jargon wise for gear, ATTACK bonus -> actually means accuracy
STR bonus -> max hit, actually means more potential damage if u hit

same with defense, etc, miss chance etc

[wide crater]

Correct

+magic is also accuracy

Magic % is damage

Same with range

[icy elm]

mooleta stats. i dont like that negative 1

[wide crater]

But youll have to do calcs, some things arent worth the cost. With some gear a +2 str bonus doesnt actually add anything to your max hit so gear calcs are important

[wide crater]

Damn i hate how youd feel about my suggestion 😂

[whole grove]

yeah for sure, right now im just using this opportunity to learn and chat

[wide crater]

Yea fyi learn to dd in pvp before using stuff like antler guard. Its bis offhand but youre gonna get hit hard if you dont know how to avoud it

[whole grove]

im not gonna go for it yet, but i appreciate knowing about it

I'm just optimizing my core gear set rn

[whole grove]

gotcha, so zammy book swap or mage book swap is better

for PVM at least

pvp just run a zammy book

[wide crater]

Yea def, best thing is dont just try to rush for best gear. Learn mechanics and get comfy first

[icy elm]

yup zummy gonna be your best shield slot

[whole grove]

thjank you!

I just need help on 1 more concern, if i dont run range top, what should i put in that slot then? Another food?

im trying this out

[whole grove]

#game-questions message is this layout better then? basically put stuff in squares @wide crater

[icy elm]

i'd just remove some of the random items to add more supplies. why the ardy cape, check if str ammy gives u max hit, remove if no, you could use smoke rune to save 1 slot.

[whole grove]

ok, im gonna read into that and get a rune pouch

[icy elm]

no

u lose pouch in pvp death

[whole grove]

ok, for pvp, i'd be running fire cape once i get that im guessing

for melee

[icy elm]

smoke rune is combination of fire and air rune so saves 1 inv

[whole grove]

gotcha, thanks! i didnt know

[tropic root]

eggs