pvp-discussion

[wooden basin]

I know i joke

[inner dew]

so ideally its better to have a giga chad alching huge risk, instead of bunch of nakeds doing low risk

well prob black dhide dudes

if u get splashed on u can still logout or nah? i forget

[next sequoia]

thats the thing. The update was completely self contained to the amount the player was comfortable bringing. The more you risked, the more you'd be able to profit

nobody is forced to bring a crap ton of risk

[inner dew]

would be cool if one guy is doing the big risk alching while unskulled with tank setup and then has some bodyguards to protect (they could also do some lower risk alching at same time)

and those guards would skull to protect their buddy

[next sequoia]

Yep it would've led to a lot of cool scenarios

buuut I guess we just have to stick with the fountain of rune that nobody really uses.

[glacial gate]

Boo!

theres not 300 clans though 🤔

I feel like a lot of this conversation could be solved by remembering the 1t logout bots that you can't touch anyways would be the main ones who would profit from this content.

[next sequoia]

[glacial gate]

Get rid of around 700 worlds of hopping and add a small logout timer and a lot of those bots are DESTROYED.

[next sequoia]

You'll be surprsied to hear, there already is a logout timer.... Its in the game right now

it was in the game when the blog was proposed

you cant insta log at all

bots cant abuse it

[glacial gate]

Theres a logout timer where?

[next sequoia]

at the fountain of rune

[glacial gate]

oh okay

[next sequoia]

when you cast a spell, you cant log out for 3 seconds

[glacial gate]

i dont go there so i didnt know. lol

[next sequoia]

Nobody goes there

[glacial gate]

Because why tf would anyone go there XD

[next sequoia]

because theres no reason to

thats why it should be buffed. lmao...

[glacial gate]

We still need a tele delay sub 30 wildy to deal with the auto tele bots.

The autolog is moreso an issue at altar anyways

[inner dew]

they could probably put an animation for tele delay

[glacial gate]

And i mean tbf there are glory chargers that go there and autolog

cause you dont have to cast a spell to charge glory

Bro even a few tick delay would make an incredible difference lol

[low mesa]

Are people actually alching items at the fountain lol?

[glacial gate]

no lol

[minor aspen]

Could be interesting. I wonder how people would interact with it since the wealth you can gain comes from what you bring into the wilderness vs what you can take out.

Where fountain of rune sits doesn’t seem like a great spot or layout for pvp imo so I think they would need to reshape that a bit to make it more interesting.

[tropic root]

Alright, this turns my opinion around on the problems about the economy

But I'm still iffy about clans just controlling it until anyone else is pushed out from trying it

But I'd rather say try it and see if that's really a problem or not and that clans are a different issue

[scarlet tree]

Nah I said area not worlds, I’m sure a clan can lock down a few worlds but all of em? pretty much no shot haha

[inner dew]

so it lets u even cast ice barrage with no runes?

[scarlet tree]

Anything you have the level for the spellbook you’re on

[inner dew]

i guess rune pouch makes it a bit redundant

they could expand the effect to the whole island 😛

[scarlet tree]

Yah no real need for that when ur there but it’s a small ish area, anything outside of u need runes for whatever u wana cast

[inner dew]

yea i figured it wont go past the walls

does anyone have takes on whether seeing timers like remaining freeze duration (on self/enemy) is good or bad?

[safe glade]

I'd be happy with a better visual confirmation that the freeze hit. Feels that sometimes the animation doesn't show making it difficult to judge how long it'll last

[next sequoia]

It's not gonna come into the game anyway. It already failed a poll. There's definitely no chance it passes a poll these days, that's for sure.

[tropic root]

Yea jagex needs to fix the wildy in a more fundamental way

Even if that came in, and it were popular, that's only one spot in the wildy

And it's probably not going to be the thing that gets new blood learning how to pk

[neat hearth]

The thing that brought new players trying out PvP for the first time is gone and I don’t see it ever coming back. Said thing being simple bots that were easy to kill scattered all about the wilderness. As bots became more sophisticated and started becoming difficult to kill the wildy started to decline. The easy 200-300k bot kills where a novice player could come to a place like chins and rack up 5 keys in a short amount of time is what brought first time inexperienced pkers to the wilderness. Now easy bot kills are scarce and what inexperienced players run into are the sweats or massive clans on multi. There is no real incentive for someone with little experience to enter the wilderness for the purpose of pking. Most newer players experience the wilderness for the first time for the purpose of easy pvm gains and after a few toxic interactions with a pker going all out gear switching, dding, ags g mauling a player who isn’t fighting back, telling them to sit, and following them to the bank to tell them how bad they are at the game they build hatred for the wildy. Then they just blindly vote no to every pvp update.

[glacial gate]

multi revs certainly will.

its not the end all be all solution no. But it works. We have historical data of it working incredibly well at least from my pov and many others.

Oh well if you run into a bigger team or even a clan thats the risk you take. Wilderness dont need to be catered to gear fear.

[fast cradle]

food chain baby

always a bigger fish in the sea

[tropic root]

If it works, how come Jagex hasn't reimplemented it?

[fast cradle]

because none of them understand pvp dynamics

clearly

[tropic root]

Yea but what was their reasoning?

[brazen fox]

Hm

Ime the toxic ppl are the pvmers

I don’t think DDing and ags mauling is toxic

[minor aspen]

They almost touched on it in the podcast with skillspecs/torvesta. Wish they talked about it more. One of the mods said they thought they didn’t handle it well. The original reason for removing it was that the caves were being “used nefariously”.

[brazen fox]

At the time it was basically used for gold farming

[inner dew]

im guessing thats referring to protection services

[brazen fox]

Ye

And the gold was getting rwt’d

The people who were paying for their services (not copping another temp mute smh) ended up making their own protection group iirc

[minor aspen]

The obvious solution would have been to keep nerfing drop table, and maybe that’s what they mean when they say they wish to have handled it better without gutting the whole thing

[brazen fox]

And basically a bunch of ppl were making a living off killing revs and selling the gold

Locking down a world and such

[minor aspen]

I don’t think it has changed tbh 😆

[brazen fox]

Yh it’s just become a singles zone now

But those ppl still do it

Maybe not quite as prevalent but idk

[tropic root]

Eh bots being there never was a pull for me to try wildy pking lol

Bots being gone is good.

If anything this just highlights that the wilderness is in a bad state because of the wilderness's inherent design flaws

I think "the bots made it better" isn't the most sensible takeaway lol

Rather it's still just, "something needs to be done about the wildy"

[brazen fox]

Plus sometimes they use bh world for old pj timer so they can protect each other

But I kinda like bh world

So am not gna criticise that and I shall be openly bias about it

[inner dew]

gotta turn the whole game into ironman mode because botters/rwt exist

[tropic root]

I wonder about that because I wasn't there

Were clans just straight up locking down EVERY world?

[minor aspen]

No, mostly just the total level worlds

[glacial gate]

just totals yep 😛

[neat hearth]

Let’s us black chins as an example. Most chin boys didn’t fight back, were low lvl and extremely easy to kill. There was 3-5 bots on every world. It was extremely active with large population of very bad pkers only targeting bots, more advanced pkers targeting those players and a few sweats hoping trying to kill other pkers. It was an active area of the wilderness and not with most of the chin bots gone it’s a ghost town. Nuking the easy to kill chin bots killed one of the most active spots in the wilderness overnight.

Yes, bots are bad for the economy and game overall but for a PVP perspective bots brought activity to the wilderness

[minor aspen]

There was also a factor of it being a hangout spot when revs was active. It was like a downstream pool fed from above. It being the 30 line and close to the rev teleport/entrance

Chins and lava maze were the singles hotspots back then I would say

Because of that type of downstream flow mingling with other elements (chins, kbd)

[neat hearth]

Revs also used to be populated with unskilled pkers prior to bots being much better at fighting back and praying against your attacks. As bots became near impossible for unskilled players to kill you stopped seeing newer pkers in places like revs.

Same can be said for wilderness slayer caves when bots became better at anti PKIng and escape you stop seeing the level of newer PKers in those areas

[minor aspen]

If they were to put another multi activity/hotspot in the wilderness i think the best spot for it would be south of lava maze in between the mine and graveyard. East side of the map is kinda trash cuz it’s just the bosses - it would need like a bunch of work

Gwd is there but it’s trash xD

[neat hearth]

I like some of the ideas a few years ago with updates to the wilderness resource area

Not sure if I can post a yt link here lol

https://youtu.be/IFi7HutYZHQ?si=eUUVFGLZyOkrPLPF

[minor aspen]

Yeah that place is pretty lackluster in 2026

[neat hearth]

God ash also made a good suggestion during a live stream that they could reduce the number of worlds that have access to the wilderness

Personally, I feel like that whole area the resource area could use a rework to help get people above the 30 line in the wilderness

@scarlet tree I know you have ideas. How do we make chins great again?

[forest kraken]

Any chance we can put a rule in place regarding wildy boxing before it gets even worse

• From an iron who definitely hasn’t finished Rev weapons with a boxer alt

[winged thorn]

Return singles to normal

Nothing else has changed for chins to become a desolate wasteland other than singles changes

[neat hearth]

China was booming up until all the bots got nuked.

[winged thorn]

Fair enough ig

[neat hearth]

The reason why not many real players do chins despite a decent gp per hour is that it has a high hunter requirement and most players with the hunter lvl have the combat skills for better pvm gp per hour methods where they don’t have to deal with pkers

[winged thorn]

I don’t disagree

Make wildy more lucrative has been my main point for a while lol

Best money making method in the wildy atm is turning in larran’s keys. That’s miserable

[minor aspen]

What if there was a wilderness birdhouse route 🤭

[neat hearth]

[winged thorn]

You think players would agree to that

[neat hearth]

They could Restricted the new logs from sailing

[minor aspen]

And requires consistent tick manipulation for decent rates

If i was racing for 99 i’d do it but im a birdhouse baddie for now

[neat hearth]

I think increasing skilling GP per hour methods while reducing XP per hour for wilderness areas could be a good idea

[winged thorn]

I think why not both

[neat hearth]

Or maybe vice versa increased go might be bad for economy

[winged thorn]

You have a risk of being “harassed” as the noobs say

[wooden basin]

I like this

[winged thorn]

Might as well give both

Take wildy agility for example

It’s solid xp/ph & gp/ph

[neat hearth]

True

[winged thorn]

It’s best of both

But then you got 4 mini maps away & start fishing dark crabs for actual penny’s compared

Same dog shit xp rate

[neat hearth]

Maybe a lower tier agility arena that makes less cheap per hour and XP per hour for lower levels on a lower level of wilderness so the combat bracket isn’t so wide

[winged thorn]

Idk why you’d even change it l0l

Focus on other shit

Imo at least

It’s not broke don’t fix it

[neat hearth]

I mean, adding a second agility course

[minor aspen]

Having Varrock lvl like 1-5 revitalized could be huge too, since it sort of connects to pirates and slayer cave

[glacial gate]

99% of pkers will agree noone cares about level 1 wilderness.

they just gonna touch ditch

[minor aspen]

Put a horde of mobs there and say varrock is under attack or something

[minor aspen]

I really enjoy lvl 1 fights because people have a reliable escape so you feel like you can take risks differently

[winged thorn]

Anything under 15 wild is miserable imo

Any bracket

[neat hearth]

I think from the perspective of trying to get new players to pick up PVP there’s significantly more activity below the 30 line

[tropic root]

Yea I understand that, just what we really want are mainly real players being around right?

[minor aspen]

I think the role lvl 1 wilderness plays is that it should draw you up into danger and adventure - it should be like a fun pilot episode

[neat hearth]

Most new players in pvp are not going to be coming into the wilderness to fight other players they are looking for easy kills. And with much of the population gone now they’re left with trying to kill fairly skilled anti pkers and the remaining terminator bots with better scripts

[naive ore]

its pretty much gone to the point where bots are too hard to kill so people want low skill pvmers to be the new lowest tier in food chain and get more of them to wilderness.

[winged thorn]

Almost like that’s been the design the entire time

Jaggy can’t do anything about advanced bots other than ban them quicker. The focus should be getting ppl into wild in general to create a food chain

But yeah that’s where we get into the discussion of ‘I don’t wanna be food’ etc

Long story short is: Neither do I, is why I got better at PvP

[forest kraken]

Would be cool if they leaned into the Wildy having some really lucrative methods

I always liked the deep wildy multi boss idea

That worm thing

[forest kraken]

If the method is good enough people won’t mind being food occasionally

And that’s how you learn to defend yourself

But most of the wildy content has alternatives outside the wildy that aren’t much worse

[winged thorn]

That are better* in most cases

[forest kraken]

Yeah exactly

[neat hearth]

I think there is plenty of deeper wild higher level content to get more game players to wilderness what we lack is lower wilderness introduction content to get more real players into the wilderness food chain at a lower lvl

[naive ore]

there is basically no way to make pvmers actively look to fight pkers, at least no way that cannot also be abused with alts and bots

[forest kraken]

So ofa has more food you mean 😉

[winged thorn]

I still hold the position that as a pvmer, unless fighting a mega turbo max, you have the advantage

But I agree that fighting back isn’t what ironmen want / need

[forest kraken]

I have no interest in fighting back on my iron but I do have an interest in protecting the loot I’ve acquired

So I won’t just fall over but I definitely won’t be bringing a AGS to anti pk

[neat hearth]

I mean that we can al agree that bots are bad. But something has to replace the low lvl bots in the food chain or you cut off the lowest tier in the PvP ecosystem. And then you are only left with the westhams fighting each other

[naive ore]

yes pvmer has advantage over salad robe warriors. mystic maybe if you sacrifice pvm gear or risk 1-2m. The issue is why would pvmers replace their 3 dps increasing items with anti-pk gear when they are not looking to fight others

[brazen fox]

Idk why tho like if u get tb’d by someone better ur dead

But if ur deeper and u get frozen by someone better u can make it to 30 line

[naive ore]

if you anti-pk you have to bank often because you need almost full supplies incase pker comes and you fight them

[forest kraken]

Depends on why your doing really. Like vettion you can do with full supplies and stay there for a long time

No need to keep rebanking there

[neat hearth]

The lower you are in the wilderness at a lower combat level, but less likely you are be tbd

[winged thorn]

Negative ghost rider

I’m talking ahrims

Korasi weng & balli all you need

But yes, you would have to risk. Believe it or not, the pker attacking said pvmer is also risking!

[glacial gate]

this may sound crazy. But those 3 items that increase your efficiency at the boss can also be 3 items (4 in all cases people are just bad/gear fear) can also increase your chances of killing a pker!

[winged thorn]

🤯

[glacial gate]

A rancour amulet helps you hit higher melee hits against players as well!

Wild thought i know i know

[winged thorn]

Most ppl who aren’t irons are using rev weps (some irons are too don’t hear what I’m not saying)

So like those weps are your dps l0l

Webweaver is a crystal bow with a spec bar

[glacial gate]

you ever hit a mofo with a webweaver 100 times in a fight

itll SHRED

[winged thorn]

Don’t get me wrong if you have vigs you should bring a range wep but, ppl pk with webweaver & sceptre already

[glacial gate]

i mean just risk a ballista

its goated

i personally keep a zcb on me if im viggoras

[winged thorn]

I’m an acb enjoyer

[glacial gate]

CA CAW

[neat hearth]

The idea is you need you get real players into low lvls of the wilderness at low combat lvls for skilling. This allows people interested in first learning pking the opportunity to kill targets that’s aren’t hard to kill. Allowing players to get introduced to PvP by making a low lol pk build that takes no time to make and low cost of making while allowing them to risk next to nothing and still get kills for 100-200k is what we need to get new players into the PvP scene. That way they can progress in skill lvl from there.

Lowering the barrier to entry for PvP

[winged thorn]

It’s funny to me that pvmers think pkers should be risking 20m+ for it not to be rag. Yet the pvmer recoils at risking 1m unskulled for a potential to kill their attacker

[forest kraken]

There are spots like that already, but they’re just not good enough

Like slayer cave has a bunch of low levels but not enough for it to be worth going to imo

[winged thorn]

Yeah zombie pirates exist & are active

At least with bots lol

[forest kraken]

And if you make them good enough it becomes a botters paradise

So it’s hard for jagex to handle

[winged thorn]

Yeah idk how you’d make content for lv 60-70’s

In lvl 10 wild

It would just be used by everyone (like it currently is)

[forest kraken]

People who are interested in learning PvP typically take the Lms route

Not going to zombie pirates or slayer cave

[winged thorn]

I think part of that is the MMO part of the game has been lost. No friends to go to multi with

[forest kraken]

There are definitely teams who go out if you want to find them. Heck that other guy has an OFA tag and they’re in slayer caves every day

[neat hearth]

Have you tried playing lms 😆 new players get Merced in 5 seconds

[forest kraken]

Problem is there’s not enough of an incentive for people to do that, it’s much more appealing to stick to pvm

[naive ore]

less people learning in lms too after the bots ban waves. no free loot when those happen, not like they learn anything from the bad bots anyway

[brazen fox]

Strongly disagree

The afk bots r great to learn on

[forest kraken]

Imagine if there was a multi area that people regaulerly farmed full of ghost monsters that droppped lots of loot and PvP gear that you could go to with the boys….

Oh wait jagex removed that

[brazen fox]

They’re like combat dummy’s

U learn to click stuff

If u jsut dds spec them then yh its a waste

But u can even use them to warm up your clicks and timing a bit when u first get on

[winged thorn]

Hell an afk bot in Lms is how a pker warms up

[brazen fox]

Fr

[winged thorn]

Clicking like a 57 year old man otherwise

[neat hearth]

Real players getting there first kill ever don’t want to play lms

They want to kill a person not fighting bs k and see 500k in loot pop up for no effort

Then they are hooked and continue pvp

[winged thorn]

I agree

[forest kraken]

This was why multi revs was amazing

[winged thorn]

I agree

[forest kraken]

You’d get kills like that just rag bolting people every few minutes

[naive ore]

you do not learn anything from killing afk bots, i agree that you can practice things you already learned before hand on them

[forest kraken]

With a decent team

And that would make you want more

[winged thorn]

I disagree as well. I learned timing freezes & freeze immunity by chasing bot down

[neat hearth]

Yes you do. You get that first hit of dopamine from killing someone and taking their stuff

[winged thorn]

I learned how to get attacks off prayer

I learned how to spec for KO

There’s a lot of things you can learn :d

[tropic root]

When I was a new player in the Wildy I went there just to explore what's there... xD

[tropic root]

I would anti-PK if it seemed viable enough to be set up for both PvM and anti-PKing

[forest kraken]

You can easily set that up depending on what content you’re doing

Like Callisto is great for anti pking

[winged thorn]

I agree with ritz. But, what do you think you’d need? More dps, food; what makes it not viable?

[naive ore]

You are trading boss kill speed for gear that gives chance to ko pker who is risking hp and standing next to you. if you fail to ko you have less supplies to escape and you are letting them get the fight to behin with

[winged thorn]

I agree with your second point we have a strong disconnect on the first

If you’re using a webweaver or a craws bow for your content let’s say, you’re only adding 1 maybe 2 items for a range/melee hybrid kill potential

It’s not a 4 way mage switch

[neat hearth]

Look if you wana get someone hooked on pking tell them to watch this then make a pure join a pure clan and start participating in pure clan wars on Sunday’s.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn2EC9f0_2M&t=227s

[forest kraken]

I’m down if eop get banned

Not participating in anything with them

[winged thorn]

No clan politics pls

[neat hearth]

Yah eop can be annoying when you don’t have the players to out number them

[winged thorn]

That was one of the stipulations of us getting this channel

[forest kraken]

They made the whole scene toxic

[tropic root]

I think the Wildy is an overall huge structural design problem xD

Well y'know my solution already with blessed/teams

But mechanic-wise for example if I'm there to fight bosses and I'm going to be consuming supplies as I go, yea I'm gonna be down food when a PKer comes for me, I'm gonna have worse gear too

Unless I am literally sitting there just to anti-PK.

I was always a fan of the suggestion that the boss should just drop some food/pots and basically stuff like PoisonedPotion suggestions.

There's also just plain skill issue on my part and nh brid isn't the kind of real PvP I enjoy.

[forest kraken]

Again it just depends on what content you’re doing but I generally agree, wildy content should not be draining your supplies so hard that you can’t fight back

[latent relic]

Imo pure clanning isn't the best entry to multi

[tropic root]

I like wildy resupply just for the fact that it would let people engage the content longer

like part of the reason people did Edge PKing / PvP worlds is because you can just go straight back to your bank and resupply to fight again

no resupply deeper in just means you have to run back and forth more

[wide crater]

Ill give you a solid example. Im pet hunting scorpia right. My 4 items are accursed sceptre, elidinis ward (f) hally and voidwaker. I have only ever been killed on this grind if its like 5+ people. 2-3 man teams vs me and i usually kill 1-2 and get away or sometimes just dip. Plenty of places where its crazy easy.

[latent relic]

Wildy bosses and revs will keep you supplied. I did anti at revs on my pure and never had an issue keeping a full inventory of food brews and restores

[tropic root]

oh they already do that? pretty nice then :P

[latent relic]

Yeah they regularly drop blighted food and restores

[winged thorn]

Wildy bosses all drop food & revs do too

Idk who’s bright idea it was to stop ppl from looting food during fights

I think that hurts the pvmer more than anyone but

[wide crater]

Scorpion doesnt 😭

[latent relic]

I made so much money using webweaver Gmaul at revs lol

[winged thorn]

red haired step child

Poor scorpia is always forgotten

[wide crater]

Haha yea its dogshit. Only wildy pet i dont have tho. I have legit 4-5 drops left to greenlog whole wildy

[tropic root]

yea I am just not that good enough at PKing to pull that off even if I were in max gear

best I can do is escape

[wide crater]

Yea but my only argument is that as long as you have skull prevention on, theres absolutely no reason not to try. Some people just plank

[tropic root]

my bridding is mega rusty and also was never on the level of PKers back when I used to do it

[latent relic]

Just need practice

Unfortunately LMS isn't good enough for that

Imo

Best thing you can do is find someone better than you and practice white portal vs them

[neat hearth]

I still feel like a good focus point for increasing interest in PvP is a lower barrier to entry focusing on a few low Wilderness skilling activities to introduce a low lvl food supply into the ecosystem giving very low lvl pking builds easy targets to fill the void of the low lvl bots that jagex has been raging war against for the past few months

[wide crater]

This is absolutely true imo but really only helpful if nhing is what you wanna do

[winged thorn]

That sounds great but do you think your lvl 64 has enough fire power to kill a prayer perfect bot with 11 brews?

[tropic root]

I disagree with that one! I just know what kind of PvP I enjoy and it's not involving constant 3-4way gear switches!

I still brid in casual minigames and it's nice because there isn't as much pressure to do all that pixel perfect stuff a deep wildy bridder does, I can play at my pace and skill level

Like, switching to tank after every mage cast is insane to me, but if I'm not doing that I'mma be at a clear disadvantage in full on deep wildy

[winged thorn]

That’s also 9 wildy levels away from safety?

[wide crater]

They should add kill streaks like cod. Oh you succeeded in killing 25 opponents in a row? This worlds wildy just got nuked

[neat hearth]

The truth is that the remaining bots of the wilderness take a good bit of skill to successfully kill

[winged thorn]

So why would putting them in lvl 8 where lv 60’s or w/e have 0 chance in killing them is a good idea?

The fact is those bots are good because the pk acc doesn’t have enough dps

[tropic root]

I used to enjoy using the Void Knight Deflector extensively because it was more casual bridding, plus we had polypore staff which made magic more affordable to use for fun

Too much gear switch and I dragged my items around and it was just dumb. This era of runescape has anti-drag plugins but they're a different problem in PKing because then I can't rearrange my inventory as fast if I need to lol

[winged thorn]

Adding another hotspot doesn’t fix that issue lol

[forest kraken]

lol or an ac130 just blowing up all the bots at zombie pirates

Imagine the gp/hr

[latent relic]

Sorry I miss understood your comment. Thought you were saying it wanting to get better at NH. If you don't like a lot of switches could learn venge BH

[tropic root]

I did melee venge PKing a bit in the past

[wide crater]

LOL im ngl that was an adhd rant that led to that idea 😂

[tropic root]

That much I do enjoy :)

[latent relic]

Yeah you'd only need to tank one freeze at that level wild and could escape even if tbed

[winged thorn]

Anti pk for the most part is referring to veng anti

[tropic root]

Ah I thought it meant you either do that or you nh brid them back

[winged thorn]

Yeah idk. Buddy wants his baby pure to be viable I get it, but adding another bot hotspot does nothing lol

You’re still a lvl 67 with 82 range or w/e

[latent relic]

Baby pure in PvP world ge maybe?

[tropic root]

why tf do they call it baby pure instead of pure now

[latent relic]

I dunno I sometimes see LVL 69s at ferox 305

[winged thorn]

Baby pures aren’t maxed

[tropic root]

are we calling nh bridders daddy now

[winged thorn]

Like anything under lvl 70 I’d say

[tropic root]

ah I see

[glacial gate]

please and thank you!

[wide crater]

I will die on this hill. Without getting a major update, the best and only way to get significantly more people in wildy is by making friends with and helping the people that are already there. I know its fun to be chad and spam sit etc but save that for the ops. Help the noobs then at least we will have less people downvoting out of spite bc we arent toxic to everyone 🤷🏻‍♂️

[latent relic]

79 is a maxed 50 att pure

[winged thorn]

Yep so like 69 & under in my brain I consider baby pure

[latent relic]

Mhmm

[winged thorn]

Idk it’s not like these terms are set in stone lol

Just what I consider personally

[tropic root]

yeah actually a baby pure is level 68 or under

[winged thorn]

Cute little flame of zammy gmaul acc

They were fun in old bh

[latent relic]

Baby pure with 99str obby maul or dwh max mage/range would be fun

[neat hearth]

This!when you’re out with 10 people and run into a 3 man group invite them to join you instead of flaming

[latent relic]

Dunno what cmb LVL that would be at would prob be 85 mage I guess

And range

[minor aspen]

Obby maul pures were fun, i remember making one back in the day slapping monks with my iron scim until 60 str

[fast cradle]

sounds like a grind

[winged thorn]

Kicking monks is super afk

[quick lion]

Does anyone have a good “tank test” tips type vid?

[wide crater]

I do it in singles too. Wether i kill pvmers or pvpers, if theyre toxic i just ignore em, but if theyre cool ill either keep fighting them or ill tell em things they couldve done to not die etc. i had a dude the other day offer to split his dragon sword drop cus i killed the pker that attacked him and now were buddies 😂

[winged thorn]

Multi? Singles?

[quick lion]

Multi

[fast cradle]

food combos

shark > brew > pnec karam

all 1tic

[winged thorn]

I think that gamer has those basics

I think they’re asking for something more in depth

[fast cradle]

put tank gear on

[glacial gate]

i could vid me tanking in a teamfight or something XD

[quick lion]

Yeah just to share with newer folks

[fast cradle]

use fkeys

to pray switch

lol

[winged thorn]

It’s actually so funny to think how much info is gatekept on accident by the clan community

[fast cradle]

save getting smited use the restore instead of the brew

[winged thorn]

This stuff you’d think it’s basic but it’s not l0l

[wide crater]

As far as the pvpers go tho, it works out well, cus now i have like 30 people on my friends list that i can fight anytime and i know for a fact i dont have ro worry about the extra stuff that comes into play in the wilderness like multi baits etc

[glacial gate]

phoenix necklace is your best friend

[fast cradle]

general game knowledge lets be real @winged thorn

[glacial gate]

in mul ti

[quick lion]

Yeah just asking for a vid to show them really

[winged thorn]

Yeah but a pvmer noob doesn’t know steel skin & mystic might when tanking lol

[glacial gate]

ahh i dont see pneck used a ton besides super sweaty high level pvm

[winged thorn]

I could help with this

Live tank vid

[wide crater]

I wouldnt say that. Most people in this game are not doing the kind of content where you’re getting hit by 3 combat styles at the same time and having to move around etc

[wide crater]

LOL only if YOURE the tank in this scenario 😂😂

[glacial gate]

shit idc to lose a set for the lulz and such

it aint nothin got hundreds

[fast cradle]

imo

[quick lion]

Can just use the portal in ferox

[fast cradle]

only thing I think ruined multi tank is entangle f2p

p2p is easy

snare

[winged thorn]

I don’t mind tanking either

[glacial gate]

ill just look through my clans youtube im sure ill find a tanking clip in like 5 mins

[winged thorn]

It would actually be really funny to see someone voiceover their multi tank

[fast cradle]

its ok come clean we know you 1banger @winged thorn 😜

[wide crater]

I was just kidding about the implication there 😂 but real talk, there wouldnt be a voiceover or an explanation by any means. But there are a shit ton of good examples on just about every multi clans youtube pages

[fast cradle]

pure tanking P2P is the hardest without doubt

[glacial gate]

https://youtu.be/8nH-PDiyYl0?t=92

its timestamped

null a lil silly in that one swapping back into mage mid tank XD but besides that its solid

[winged thorn]

That was my first award in my first clan

Biggest one bang

Can’t find it atm

[quick lion]

Ty ty

[fast cradle]

I've not been a 1bang since 2008 lol

imagine going from 1v1 pking/f2p multi to p2p multi

[wide crater]

Lmfao oh how far weve come. Unfortunately sometimes it doesnt matter how much knowledge you have, theres just not a damn thing that can be done lol

[fast cradle]

sure you can get rng scaped thru pnec 121hp

on a pure

but its all about positioning

awareness

main tanking is easy

in comparison

[glacial gate]

Im gonna do it

No no

[fast cradle]

ultimate lesson in learning runescape is a pure

[winged thorn]

I’ll do it

[fast cradle]

in terms of pvp

[winged thorn]

Get defense

Stinky pure

[fast cradle]

got main

maxed ect

[glacial gate]

Smelly pure

[fast cradle]

dont play it lol

got a pure with 2097 total, 1880 ttl

give me a reason to play a main in pvp

its dead

[forest kraken]

Pures are incredible now with toyal titans prayers

Before that though fighting low level meds and zerks was just pure hell

I still have a level 84 baby med with rigour augury bowfa ahrims toxic staff

[fast cradle]

just need a strength bonus prayer next tbh

[forest kraken]

[latent relic]

There are mains at altar most nights

[forest kraken]

Did someone say… chivalry?

[fast cradle]

the meta builds are too op

need some balance to make 1v1 active

bh is dead

[forest kraken]

Royal titans did level out the gap though I think

[latent relic]

Yeah pure sets definitely more balanced, like you can be in a budget set and still pk someone in max

[winged thorn]

[fast cradle]

no offence id rather solo than pk with WG at altar lol

[latent relic]

Oh I was talking about singles pking not multi

[fast cradle]

politics in main clanning too 💤

[forest kraken]

For clanning to boom I think raggers need to be disciplined or there needs to be some solution

[latent relic]

Altar multi is usually just unskulled raggers

[glacial gate]

i just like eating opps. IS that a bad thing or is it healthy. I guess it depends on how those players act innit. I try to be civil and nice ❤️

[forest kraken]

Every war turning into rag v rag is just so cringe

[glacial gate]

I as well hate rag wars

rev caves good for that because entrance fee 😛

[fast cradle]

the clans themselves don't help why the scene is dead

jagex not bringing in updates

just kills it even more

[glacial gate]

I think thats the bigger thing. There are plenty of players willing to engage

but like. Why lol

[forest kraken]

Rev cave brought a lot of people to the multi scene but since its removal it’s not looking good anymore

[glacial gate]

Even as a pvp lover myself i've found myself more and more often not in the wilderness.

[forest kraken]

Jagex really does need to add something for multi clans

[fast cradle]

why get people trying to gain your personal information because you say something

thats why clanning is dead lol

[forest kraken]

I think that happens a lot in pvp games

[winged thorn]

“Every fight” turning into rag is a misconception

[glacial gate]

I had that happen to me by a guy at mole in falador park.

Never had it happen in pvp /shrug/

Perhaps its how people interact.

[winged thorn]

Personally idc about loot nor do I care if who I’m fighting is in “rag”

I enjoy multi wars in osrs

Simple as

[forest kraken]

Being in rag gear is fine

But 1 item crystal bow etc

Or addy crossbow bolting

Like that needs to go

[winged thorn]

No way to do so w/o punishing normal players who aren’t pking

[fast cradle]

just fight in non+1 worlds this all changes

lol

[winged thorn]

At least from my angle

[winged thorn]

But that’s a choice of the clan leaders, not anything jaggy could really do

[latent relic]

Today's multi clan culture pushes people away instead of bringing new people in.

[forest kraken]

Even in non +1 there’ll still be air staff barrage raggers and addy crossbow raggers

Some type of organised multi area could work

[fast cradle]

id rather stand in 325 being aids with a crystal bow at vsq

than join a clan

lol

[winged thorn]

I’d rather do the opposite

[fast cradle]

multi is dead for a reason

[glacial gate]

Its almost as if its kinda the games job to provide content worth fighting over. unfortunately theres 800 worlds and callisto aint fun lol

[winged thorn]

No lucrative money makers, I agree

[glacial gate]

Like who even cares about bear XD

[latent relic]

We manufacture our own drama and no one wants to be a part of that

[fast cradle]

this ^

[latent relic]

Jagex didn't do that

[glacial gate]

aint saw no drama in here besides pvmers hating us /shrug/

just dont join sharkbrew its not that hard

[latent relic]

I'm not talking about here

[fast cradle]

jagex just avoid giving the content for the aids to thrive

lol

hence why revs removal

[latent relic]

It's naive to not see the impacts it has on bringing new people into the clan scene

Anyways I don't want to rant cuz I could go all day

[fast cradle]

on my pure I met people who skill/pvm/pvp on pures in 2k worlds

none pure clan

[latent relic]

It's not just jagex that needs to fix multi is my point I guess

[fast cradle]

we do our own thing

[glacial gate]

you choose to involve yourself in those spaces. I dont. Im well aware how some of the clanning scene works ive saw it all. I just choose not to take part in the toxcicity 😛 besides maybe saying sit to a rival clan.

just as pures choose to stay 1 def. Or as ironmen choose to not use ge.

[latent relic]

Can pretend it's not there but that won't make it go away

[glacial gate]

you ever been to tob brother?

[latent relic]

Yupp

[fast cradle]

fact is for some people runescape is life xd

[glacial gate]

then the same can be said i think you would agree.

[latent relic]

Sure

[glacial gate]

Regardless of pvm/pvp etc. There are toxic players and will continue to be regardless of content jagex puts out.

[tropic root]

unless they put out some fat bans xD

yes I'm exaggerating

[latent relic]

You can't change culture through bans

[tropic root]

yea true

but like total eradication yeees I'm still just joking

[fast cradle]

clans should come together to suggest content tbh @latent relic

have jmods sat in there looking at realistic ideas

for wildy content

nobody knows more than the people who populate it

what it needs

[granite sphinx]

we tried that in the old discord 🙁 and literally 0 things got implementedl ol

[latent relic]

Yeah I'd love to come together with others and offer ideas. Full transparency no issue as well. Problem right now is a lot of clans can't put aside their fighting to work together on a common goal so not sure how well it would work lol

[granite sphinx]

i think its less they dont have suggestions and more they cba updating the wildy and would rather update other stuff

[fast cradle]

suppose its a direction problem as well as staff willing to do it

the games direction is pvp/skiller base

[latent relic]

I mean manked has good ideas that with a bit of feedback could be something great

Problem is it almost feels like it's a meme to other jagex staff. Like I'm not sure outside of him if it's taken seriously. Hopefully I'm wrong but it just doesn't feel like wildy gets any love from jagex

[fast cradle]

imo... most content creators who now work for jagex literally have no input on anything it seems

they're PR bots

[latent relic]

It's sad that we see the suggestions in the game jam and the first reaction is that this will never be in the game

I mean you'd hope they would pay attention when their biggest content creator is Odablock.

People obviously enjoy seeing PvP content even if they don't participate themselves

[fast cradle]

you can go back to mahatma/3---hit---u

[river glen]

Wiki links found:
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/-hit

[fast cradle]

all the biggest content creators

have always been pvp

yet the game struggles for pvp content

insane....

you've essentially got a game running at 50%

50% not being utilized

[granite sphinx]

its rough man 🙁 i aint even logged in since dmm

[fast cradle]

problem is dmm is nothing like actual pvp

[granite sphinx]

absolutely not

thats why its annoying thats the only pvp thing that gets updates

[fast cradle]

its a side quest for jagex's PR machine

[granite sphinx]

they could rerun old ones for all i care

[fast cradle]

to make money

lol

[granite sphinx]

but id love for them to work on the real game

but yeah lack of updates to the game + the most forgettable summit we ever had has me pretty doomer rn

[fast cradle]

insane how they will continue to let it go like this but im used to it

[granite sphinx]

unfortunately, same

[fast cradle]

from wildy removal to bh craters to pvp worlds to bh worlds then wildy+free trade

seen it all

😄

[latent relic]

Dmm is fun as a seasonal but I think 3 weeks was too long.

[granite sphinx]

that and once every 2 years isnt often enough

if thats the only pvp content we get lol

[latent relic]

A lot of people burnt from it lol

Yeah once a year for 2 weeks is good

[granite sphinx]

its just sad that so many people played dmm, and then dmm ended and the discord im in has been legit empty since

just nothing to do in the main game

[neat hearth]

It would be nice if they brought back the singles fights and let like the top 20 players from seasonal dmm do all stars instead of just picking content creators

[brazen fox]

Ye but then everyone would be confused cuz it’s all names they don’t know

Pros and cons

Mix of both would be cool

[jade ledge]

Burnt from gathering points to buy the rewards and sell for a huge price? lol

[latent relic]

you and i didn't play the same dmm it seems

[jade ledge]

True, this felt like League

(PS: I didnt play a lot)

[latent relic]

make it what you want it to be

you could play it like leagues or focus on the unlocks you need and pk entire time

[tropic root]

I can just imagine what it's like to be a Jagex developer, putting time effort and care into PvP updates, only for community to No vote it

For 10 years straight

[latent relic]

Just have mage bank be the only place you can cast vote

[scarlet tree]

For the black chin spot rn I think it’s OK I almost want there to be a log out delay there cause of the bots/farmers but other than that it’s at a pretty decent location to survive/anti pk and pk there, trees for freeze hugs/logs near mutli for lures its pretty good

I think that post is pretty spot on from He Box Jonge at least the skilling/money making from skilling portion the key ring miiiight be a ok idea I’m not a huge fan of the amulet seems like it can be abused with its mechanics but honestly the idea as a whole is hella solid

[glacial gate]

you had to be a streamer or rot to be able to talk in that one though for the most part. here is much better imo.

[scarlet tree]

I mean honestly the birdhouse idea that’s joked about can be made into something…maybe build a big ass bird house or sumthin n then fight a low ish lvl bird either combat or keep making traps or something n then like a 3x or more XP drop of a equal lvl bird house
N the drops/loot n respawn/ready time be the same as outside
Something for low lvl wildy idk

Some Mod sofen’s ideas in her wildy rework were dope for low lvl wildy
Like a Ent boss little shit like that

[glacial gate]

id still be playing dmm today if it was up (the event mode not perm world lol) that shit is just incredibly fun. I loved it like a LOT.

[neat hearth]

I haven’t been to black chins in a month or two, has the activity picked back up? The last time I tried hopping there I hopped like 40 mins and saw no pkers and hardly any bots. Place was a ghost town.

[winged thorn]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1465348114033541183/1479211127459283056/multi_revs.gif?ex=69ab3637&is=69a9e4b7&hm=67ce112829e3044a004bc1abc03cbcd38486382d7622cee7a112b4a58465bc4e&

[void folio]

I guess that's a good thing to think about. What are the active spots for hunting in the wilderness? Like botkilling, targetting skillers/pvmers, fighting other pkers even.

[minor aspen]

Rogue's castle was the last decent multi hot spot generated by bots. Lava dragons comes close behind it. BH Agility is usually poppin when the clans are running agility. BH south revs is sometimes competitive. Bosses are semi-active. 304 Altar is active but it's often just mains standing around not wanting to fight each other, they're all the same team I guess. 304/305 ferox is active for pures/med fights. These and altar are usually sweatlords.

[void folio]

that sounds... way more bleak than I was anticipating.

I'll probably go to my og idea then and just roam pvp worlds while questing/skilling and just on-sight anyone I spot lol.

[minor aspen]

reminds me, idk if it is anymore, but port roberts was an active pvp spot on pvp world - haven't been there in months though

that was an interesting time

[void folio]

that's very interesting indeed...

My account isn't even close to pk-ready though. I want to at least have dragon scim and a rcb before I start running it down at random people. by the time it is I'm sure hotspots will have changed.

might even be a few new ones entirely

[scarlet tree]

Idk I rarely pk there so i can’t say how it is day to day/week/month but black chins are only BiS for range training now no real need for them at other places, tob too but that’s about it

Guessing the need dropped off a bit so less farmers/bots so less pkers etc

[next sequoia]

Community doesnt want the wilderness to have lucrative money makers anymore though.

[open grove]

the problem is dearest jagex cannot balance it for shit

so we end up with shit like on release Z pirates

[next sequoia]

Community is sick of being loot pinatas and will vote no to any lucrative wilderness update going forward. It's sad because I think the updates that we have (zombie pirates, wildy bosses) were just not designed that well in terms of being balanced. A pvmer being teleblocked at all times at zombie pirates, or face tanking teams while running in an escape cave that chip damages you at the multi bosses isn't designed well or balanced

We're at the point where updates need to be catered to the pvmers if anything is ever going to pass a poll. Something to make people feel like they have a fighting chance at escaping or tanking a team. Not "Well, i'm going to die" everytime someone sees a team rushing in.

Muti revs had shortcut escapes which is going in the right direction. 89 shortcut gave opportunities for pvmers to escape with their loot. (and they did a lot of times, you'd have entire teams who didnt have the agility level)

But soon as I saw the wilderness get denied GP incentive activities, I knew things were doomed tbh.

[minor aspen]

Looks like prices could be going up - pretty large dip over the last year

[open grove]

dip was because of chin rework

probably never going all the way back

[winged thorn]

Community has lost its mind then, l0l. Imagine getting avg xp rates for a skill in the only dangerous area of the game l0ll

Both money makers & skills in wildy need to be worth the time to them

[inner dew]

its like the entire point of the wildy is risk and reward

not much to be said to the naysayers besides reminding them of that

[minor aspen]

Ah wasn’t aware of rework 😮

[glacial gate]

wilderness should have better rewards because it involves RISK. idk why this is so hard for some to grasp

activities shouldnt be subpar within it. comparatively to non dangerous areas.

[next sequoia]

People disagree. They want the wilderness to be pvper vs pvper only. No skilling inside, no pvming inside.

which makes no sense imo

[winged thorn]

agreed. all we can do is hope jaggy remembers the reason for the wildy & makes good updates

[inner dew]

its a typical strawman of pvp games, usually from ppl with quite literally 0 experience in any pvp game

usually just weird semantic arguments like people defining what "PVP" and "PK" means (despite having no interest in either of them or any experience...)

and these terms have meant what they mean for like 20 years++ so i dont see how they can change suddenly

[winged thorn]

right lol

[inner dew]

theres varying types of pvp gamemodes, all of them work perfectly fine. varying degrees of risk and so on. the beauty is you can have all of them as a sandbox game

the wildy is basically only asking you to risk as much as you are comfortable with. i think its one of the more forgiving versions. i mean if you compare that to the 2015 DMM release where you lose experience and bank, it makes the wildy look like a walk in the park.

[next sequoia]

I wish the wilderness gave incentives to willingly risk more. Nothing incentivizes risking extra, 90% of things in the current wilderness incentivizes risking the bare minimum.

[open grove]

They've definitely tried with the slayer cave + rev weapons

although tbf 500k min risk for the best slayer xp in the game is nothing

[glacial gate]

and how safe you are.

wilderness player alarm and hovering teleport at most you spend 3-4 ticks. or the bots that just 1t outta there as well

[scarlet tree]

That massive logout button plug in 🤣🤣

[open grove]

oh i don't even use either of those and i've almost never been pked

even the agility shortcuts are op enough to get you away from any pker

[tropic root]

Hi, I'm a player who loves PvP in Runescape and used to do majorly just a lot of RS2 PvP.

Isn't PKing more defined by risk whereas PvP technically just means any situation you are fighting another player (includes minigames)?

OSRS over the years has seemed to have this weird shift to where PvP community only sees risk PKing as "real PvP".

More accurately, everyone has their own definition in their mind about it. I wouldn't call that a strawman. I agree with those who say Wildy isn't "real" PvP unless you are nh bridding or doing multi fights in deep wildy. The predator prey thing is way different from a real fight unless they anti-PK. It's a hunt and chase.

That said, everyone who says Wildy should be "just real PvP and no PvM/skilling" have the wrong idea. Because we already have exactly that in PvP worlds and BH, that's where people go to just fight other players with some risk involved.

Wilderness food chain works by being like an ocean. There's plants, fish, and sharks. Plants grow in various places (anything that is in the Wilderness naturally - bosses, chinchompas, skilling) and they get farmed by fish (the "prey" or mouse).

The sea of fish attracts sharks (PKers) to eat them. The sharks (also sometimes anti-PKers) attract more sharks or groups of sharks (small group of PKer friends) to kill everything else. And bigger groups of sharks (clans) come around to kill those or each other.

So multi rev caves attracted a lot of fish and everything else with it.

That's what everyone who likes the Wildy is going for right?

[inner dew]

the issue with "predator vs prey" is its an incorrect framing of a perceived issue. the only mechanic in the wildy which could possibly designate somebody as a prey is being unskulled. but since being unskulled carries the huge benefit of 3 iteming, its actually even "abused" by PKers who purposefully wait for somebody to attack them so that they simply have a huge gear advantage over most other people.

where the skull system in general works best is when you have PJing in singles, or just multi. now your friends are able to assist you, but only by taking upon the risk of skulling. unfortunately they removed PJing for the most part with the PJ timer update.

and so generally when players who arent PVP minded make suggestions, they end up compounding issues because they don't understand the root causes of things or what important concepts the content revolves around.

the wildy is inherently a chaotic PVP environment, there is no such thing as fair fights or honor there besides taking somebodies word.

there isnt any real or not real pvp, in open world pvp games you accepted any and all pvp from the get-go. you can't just politely decline somebody who wants to attack you.

[glacial gate]

The only thing thats prey in the wilderness are those that present themselves as such. The whole anti pkers are sharks to is the truth and you can do it as well in far less risk than you'd guess 😛 especially with a lil group of friends communication and quick pile swapping you can wipe out a squad with nothing but ballistas and freeze

[tropic root]

That last bit has some exceptions

Edge pking / pvp worlds players do decline fights they don't want by walking to safe zone or teletabbing

G2g bbl

[inner dew]

i mean pvp world isnt wildy. but yes u can be rushed in those too, its not a literal duel that both ppl accept.

[untold prawn]

is there a discord for pvp clans?

[glacial gate]

I would stay here lol

[tropic root]

Isn't there also rev cave mechanics that you optionally skull for

And doesn't that mean it all still boils down to predator prey at the bottom of the food chain?

"Prey vs prey" only happens a few steps up the food chain and only if the bottom of the food chain exists to attract the rest

[tropic root]

Back when I tried it, it was pretty obvious if someone was running up to attack, I just tabbed out lol

Though it certainly does still work for plenty of people

[tropic root]

Ye that's what I'm sayin

[inner dew]

the wilderness does not have a predator vs prey dynamic, the only thing that is hurting the dynamic in the wilderness is the PJ timer which is what people for it think helps them but it doesnt help them

when you are attacked you always are atleast able to retaliate, theres no downside to defending yourself. which is perfect

but if you want your friends to help you (which they should be able to) they should have to skull as consequence for joining the fight, added risk for the potential reward of the pk loot/saving their friend

a literal predator vs prey gamemode was like fist of guthix

[tropic root]

Hmm well, I agree with some of that, I disagree with that very first sentence though because predstor prey literally is there and happens on the side of everything else that is there

PJ timer killed singles teams and removed a lot of what people had fun with yes

I can't see how it somehow didn't benefit solo players though, but I would agree that catering to only solo play isn't right for wildy.

Yes FoG was literal only predator prey, yes wildy has things other than that, but it's not absent of it and that's still kinda how a lot of people are presented it at an introductory level with all the pvm. and skilling stuff.

Yes people can just choose to anti-PK, but that doesn't mean everyone will want to. Rather they just stay out of the wilderness and thus the Wildy sees dying activity and no new blood.

[scarlet tree]

Yah ngl that term pred vs prey is used a lot more than it should be
It’s mostly just skill lvl, like 2/3 said u can have ppl pvming who are way better in a fight than the initiator…. And then there’s the gear and vantage like he said
It’s mainly just skill differences more than pred vs prey
It’s alooooot easier to survive in singles+ than prey on ppl given it’s an equal skill fight

[tropic root]

I see wildy as more of a hodgepodge of a variety of types of PvP interactions

[glacial gate]

pj timer was mad toxic and served to make singles combat effectively multi-combat.
Ill never agree with reverting that change go play BH world if thats your jam.

[open grove]

imo should have a couple more worlds for it than just 1 (2 if the bh botting world is up)

speaking of which just remove 569 from the game lol

there has never been a world more devoted to exclusively things against the rules it's insane

[scarlet tree]

Yaaa was gonna say should b more, but if they perm made the bh worlds active then we’d see bh kinda congregate like it did this past December on only the uk world for crater,
But yah would be nice if like for outside crater all 3 worlds were perm active

[inner dew]

there isnt anything that "helps" people who refuse to defend themselves. the wildy doesnt cater to them, it just doesnt matter. if ppl wanna pretend they are "prey" and not fight back, its their own problem they invented

[glacial gate]

if you're out there in full pvm gear and can't bolt back guess who couldve fixed that.

🤔

[tropic root]

I agree

What jagex needs to do imo is have a clear definition and presentation of what wildy should be

"We need PJ timer" criticism happened is because big areas of the wilderness are presented as "single way combat" and not "single way but teams can play the system to fight you unfairly anyway"

If all wildy were multi (i am NOT suggesting this), people would understand better that that's just what they are being sold and that they can just choose to go in or not.

A lot of the predator prey criticism comes from the same thing, because everything is presented as just being there to bait people into being loot piñatas

However that is just a PvMer's perspective of what it looks like.

Which they have, because no one (Jagex) has not sold them "no, Wildy is actually an ecosystem of a variety of situations" which admittedly is kinda hard to summarize in an elevator pitch due to the depth of the system

[glacial gate]

as toxic as the term victim is. People act like prey is the same exact thing.

[tropic root]

Eh I disagree. I've had ideas that can bridge gaps, encourage people to learn, and also people will play in just the way that seems natural to them

I wouldn't really call it a problem they just made up in their head. It's just the reality of what happens.

I have to go back to work now though can't elaborate

[glacial gate]

High rewards brings the risk of people chasing those quick gains. Albeit at the expense of the chances of having a pvp interaction.
Its on the players themselves to delegate whether the content is worth or not.

Like zombie pirates.

Great loot/gph first few weeks

[tropic root]

Exactly

The thing is many deem it not worth it

And thus "PvP has a problem" and is dying, not growing, not seeing new blood

[glacial gate]

but kinda an ass area. low gph now comparatively to many other no risk alternatives in the game.
In to low level wilderness for meaningful interactions in a broad spectrum.

why go to zombie pirates when i can bolt delve 4 doom for avernic treads

with hardly any skill expression necessary and no risk

[tropic root]

There needs to be a variety in the wildy and there's a lot of factors besides just risk vs reward

Aight I really gotta go now tho lol

[forest kraken]

Because doom requires like 50m+ in gear and zombie pirates you can go to with your fists ?

And there’s 0 requirements for zombie pirates, AND its pretty idle content

They’re just not comparable at all

[forest kraken]

And I can see why, I finished revs on the iron last night which was probably a similar experience with how most new players would be interacting with the Wildy at first (going there for pvm loot) and the amount of PKers I escaped who stated flaming me, calling em names etc. it’s not surprising people are turned off by PvP

[inner dew]

idk about runescape high lvl pvm (havent really done any or even watched) but other games u had plenty of toxicity in dungeon groups and the likes despite no pvp

[scarlet tree]

Yaaaa high lvl pvm is just as toxic as pvp….Id say it’s a lot like going to 400+ toas n tob/hmtob while having little experience there….those ppl will flame n try n pk you in the raid
Honestly it’s pretty equal lvls of toxicity since you’re competing for the same resources, PvP-gp/life lol And in those raids- points/mvp

[naive ore]

everything has bad actors, people just remember those situations easier. Most people dont say anything and you just forget them

[glacial gate]

i can beat up doom in a rcb slayer staff and darklight in void and a glory brother wtf u talkin about. we talkin wave 4 homie

i could prob kick wave 4 to death

[inner dew]

i had a guy try to crash me at barbarian village while i was grinding bones and clues

not a word was spoken we just did some pvm PVP and i came out on top with better clicks 😎

[naive ore]

bad actors usually put themselves out there more to get attention, like i wouldnt be surprised if people stay in the ingame raid group channel just to find "newbies" to team with to do it on purpose

[forest kraken]

Yeah but who’s getting into doom and can do that off the bat

[glacial gate]

try we do raids youll find plenty of em. i cant be asked to raid there anymore

[forest kraken]

Literally no one

Just because some of us can

Doesn’t mean that’s normal

[glacial gate]

then not noone?

🤔

[forest kraken]

Re read mate

Yeah but who’s getting into doom and can do that off the bat

‘Off the bat’

[glacial gate]

my brother you know how slow waves 1-4 are

????

if you cant do that i wouldn't considder you past early game tbh

[forest kraken]

Ok pal

You’re vastly overestimating the average player

[naive ore]

a lot of players avoid any content that requires them to learn prayer/gear switching

[glacial gate]

1 way swaps are not hard in the slightest

are you saying most of the playerbase just clicks boss and turns off brain

thats pretty reductive.

albeit relaxing i cant lie lol

[naive ore]

like zulrah for example, it got popular once players started doing range only kills and they still just face tank zulrah jad phase if kill is not fast enough

[errant cedar]

its also pretty true, its not trivial to find data to support it but having played mmos for 15 years i have seen time and time again how badly the good players overestimate the average player. think one good piece of data we have is the fact that only 2% of players have elite CAs done, that already speaks volumes about the average

[glacial gate]

how do we gauge popular in that sense

[forest kraken]

This discussion came from comparing doom to zombie pirates. But doom is end game pvm and zombie pirates are literally comparable to hill giants

[glacial gate]

im allowed to make a bad comparison. But facts is facts.

The contents dead becaue its not rewarding

[naive ore]

elite CAs kinda require you to actively do different content and go out of your way to complete tasks

[errant cedar]

yeah its not perfect but its still pretty telling

[naive ore]

i would say most casual players dont even have hard CAs done

[tropic root]

PvM used to get a different kind of toxicity in people crashing each other for spots in worlds

But now we have instanced bosses :p

There's usually also elitism in choosing parties

PvP toxicity is usually seen more as the shittalking

Both got their fair share

[errant cedar]

imo the overlap of people who would go out of their way to try harder "endgame" bosses with people who try to get CAs done on bosses they are already doing is pretty high

[tropic root]

There's definitely a lot of players who do more casual pvm

Like slayer

[glacial gate]

slayers mad chill too.

i do mine in the wilderness

[tropic root]

Mining in the wildy is... silly lol

[glacial gate]

i do mine slayer tasks 😛

[tropic root]

Oh

I misread that word l

[glacial gate]

im 99 slayer its just chill

[fast cradle]

it definitely needs a buff though lets be real @glacial gate

when you get a bad task its baddddd

[brazen fox]

Zulrah has been popular forever

Moneysnake

Even before the plugins

Ppl were memorising rotations

[fast cradle]

^

[brazen fox]

It was like the thing to do for gp

[naive ore]

yes but casual players started doing zulrah only after it was viable to do without gear swaps

[brazen fox]

What u mean casual players

[fast cradle]

had like 9k kills

lmao

[brazen fox]

People had like no zulrah kills

[forest kraken]

Wait theres a zulrah plugin?

[brazen fox]

And learned zulrah

[brazen fox]

There’s one that shows rotations on the side panel

[forest kraken]

I thought that got banned years ago

Ahhh

[brazen fox]

There was an op one before that showed u what to pray on the prayer book

That’s gone

[naive ore]

zulrah plugin nowdays is just interactive rotation image

[brazen fox]

But the new one u click what spawn u get and it says it in side panel

Yh

But I mean

Back then zulrah was peoples first pvm content

[forest kraken]

Yeah I think I’ve tried it once or twice but didn’t like interacting with the side menu so just ended up learning the rotations the Oldschool way

[brazen fox]

Esp with prayer switching

And like everybody learned it

It was only after a bunch of other pvm got added that ppl started ignoring zulrah

But it’s incredibly boring

Idm sending doom but 0 chance am getting bp on iron cba

[naive ore]

yes zulrah was most players first pvm because other pvm at the time was just tank damage that you cannot avoid

[brazen fox]

Yh but everyone did it anyway

Cuz it was the most fun pvm

[forest kraken]

Bp is huge

Especially on an urn

Iron

[brazen fox]

Ik I just really really find zulrah boring

[forest kraken]

It’s like mandatory for pre scythe tob

[brazen fox]

I can do like 5kc

Then it feels like a grind

[forest kraken]

Nox hally made it really chill tbh

Bring a 1 way atlatl switch

Netflix on the 2nd monitor

[brazen fox]

Ye I been trying to get spider boots before going spider boss

But I’m kinda dry

Idk if it’s worth to wait for araneas or not

I just saw someone say it once and it felt like a good excuse not to learn a boss on mobile 🤣

[fast cradle]

lol

[minor aspen]

@tropic root “What wildy should be…” i think this gets to the core of the wilderness problem: identity crisis.

It’s literally a place of chaos, destruction and violence(see lore). It’s filled with outlaws, bandits and pirates - of which some can be players. Yet the decisions being made about it are policing behavior and making it more “fair”. They aren’t going to be able to create successful updates for it unless they work this out. This is why Mod Jed shape(supposedly) one of the best pieces of content: he was basically a follower of Zamorak.

The wilderness has a violent identity, and people can’t stomach that, but it’s the reality. At the end of the day it’s an mmorpg where you need villains, and people interacting with each other for a good story. The wilderness has been the ultimate sandbox for that.

[cinder lagoon]

How hard is pvp on mobile, been scared to try lol

Or should I say anti pking while bossing

[forest kraken]

Anything beyond clicking on tree and clicking on bank is too hard on mobile imo

But there are people who have done zuk helms on mobile

So definitely doable

A have a buddy who plays a pure mobile only and he gets kills all the time

[naive ore]

if you are used to playing on mobile in high click/tap intensive pvm then you can do fine. Harder to step under players though and swapping gear on last tick

[fast cradle]

the wilderness needs players who understand the wilderness and the foodchain

quite simply put @minor aspen

to create the content

[brazen fox]

There r mobile only pkers so its not impossible esp if ur veng anti pking

But when ur using ancients/normals it’s gna be real hard to 1t mage

The avg pker isn’t 1tick barraging anyway tbh like you can def anti pk you just won’t be a top pker

Just try it tbf

What’s the worst that can happen? U don’t get the kill and that’s the same outcome as not trying lmao

[fast cradle]

don't worry

im here to save the wilderness

😄

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1479484270085935225

[cinder lagoon]

Thanks for the tips everyone

[low mesa]

no hard at all i was winning lms on mobile for a long time

[latent relic]

It depends on your account. A pure can get by just don't take any switches besides your weapon. Camp robes entire fight

For a main you can probably do venge pking on mobile fine

Just don't risk a lot starting out. Simple MSB to AGS set

[forest kraken]

A 3/4 way on mobile in np

[scarlet tree]

It’s alright, that’s all I play
There more advantages on pc but pretty doable to get decent on mobile

Adjust ur tap to drop menu speed for whatever is comfortable and slowly work the Ms speed down
U can adjust the size of the drop down menu bars too if u want
Tabs can open left or right side, n if u have fat fingers u can double up on tabs on the left side

[cinder lagoon]

I was watching some videos as well, actually seems doable unless they do the walk under

Feels impossible to counter on mobile

[scarlet tree]

U can make ur character invisble on mobile

::Renderself

[cinder lagoon]

But I’ve been anti pking with web weaver ags, I can always get away but yeah I wanna get the kill lol

[cinder lagoon]

Oh great to know ty

[scarlet tree]

I’d say if you’re looking to get into like top top levels on nhing there’s a bug that doubles drop down options n it’s very troublesome

[cinder lagoon]

Oh I’m miles away from top top lol

[scarlet tree]

I made a post about it n the devs know but it’s been unfixed for over a year now

[cinder lagoon]

But also good to know

[scarlet tree]

This, makes insta DDing on ppl less of a muscle memory thing n can throw u off

It’s not a huge game ender but at the upper skill lvls it matters- in nhing

[low mesa]

is dh legs and top with ursine and +1 void waker a good setup to anti at rev caves and spiders?

[low mesa]

how are you dding so fast

[winged thorn]

You can’t really do any damage from a distance, I’d bring at least a crossbow too.

[scarlet tree]

I lowered the tap to drop down options menu time
N u just get ready to dd after u click on them for an attack
Sadly the dropdown menu speed can only be lowered to 100ms :/ so some of them don’t look as clean as then can….ngl it’s probly me sucking too

[hollow fiber]

Gm brother teal

[verbal ore]

pvp clan scene dead?

[winged thorn]

Gm

[winged thorn]

No, clans exist & fight daily

[verbal ore]

is there a better place than here to find a 1 def pure clan?

i posted in the looking for but no dice so far

[winged thorn]

#1170031373038403674

That’s a decent start

[low mesa]

we fight damn near every day vs other clans or fight in multi

but we a med clan

[minor aspen]

I’ve mingled in some 1 def clans on the recruitment recently and many of them seem pretty inactive except for midweek and sunday masses. Rarely will you pop in and find a group to join on for a pk trip

[verbal ore]

man 5 years ago i got picked up for a clan just walking around in game, what the heck happened 🙁

my pure is basically pointless rn

[minor aspen]

There’s no reason or need for teammates in the singles+, no multi hot spots ecosystem

[torn gull]

They give us any type of update for the multi-revs poll?

Haven’t been able to find anything anywhere

[fast cradle]

https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1479617710210940938 @winged thorn @minor aspen

idea of le century

[fast cradle]

wouldn't say pointless just focus on total levels pk in small teams on total worlds ect

until revs come back

[low mesa]

Lots of purging staff , BofA , hali/toxic guys in rev caves. Is that meta setup now or something ?

[echo harness]

they don't share the results of opinion polls directly

they didn't share the results of the last one either

[fast cradle]

wouldn't like to see the results of anything pvp based

assuming most updates would get around 20% yes

[next sequoia]

I still would want to see poll results regardless of how one sided the results may be

[inner dew]

it was scuffed tho why did it not have any agility shortcuts

[next sequoia]

The multi revs proposal?

agreed.

[minor aspen]

Yeah i worked my booty off for that 89 shortcut, it was well designed and placed

Tbed past 30 line? Out is 89 agility, kinda cool thematically too

[next sequoia]

Multi revs needs to have cool escape methods. Like... why not have a stepping stone escape shortcut similar to Yama's. They already proved something like that can be possible.

keep 89 agility shortcut, that worked well

but make the caves interesting and dynamic

[fast cradle]

the slayer caves need expanding making them more popular/reason to go there, Revs need making multi, more skilling incentives need adding

F2P wilderness needs addressing to make it a breeding ground for players to either 1v1 or multi pk

[winged thorn]

More monsters would be cool, but making it kenker like kourend caves would be just that, kenker

[low mesa]

What hp threshold omits a triple eat when in single combat ? Or is it circumstantial on their gear. Gonna lure these greedy rev cave ahkers

[scarlet tree]

Definitely depends on a few things, mainly max hit n what could be the next atck gmaul/thrown axe or other hard hitting weps if they’re following a faster attacking wep.
If they have fast wep+same/next tick spec wep (and or venge) u triple at a higher hp depending on the cycle
If they have reg/slower wep ur usualy ok to sit a tad lower on off hits if they don’t have follow ups

Hella broad answer but it’s a broad question it depends a lot on the specific situation

[fast cradle]

agreed but a few extra monsters in the cave would make it much better @winged thorn

wilderness slayer as a whole needs improving

refer to > https://discord.com/channels/324132423636090880/1459570532948119771

wilderness slayer sums up any pvp content

if its not popular enough to nerf they let it sit there to die

[low mesa]

Everything in the wilderness should be buffed so that it’s not as dead. Which in turn will draw more pvm players and more pvm hunters and lastly players who hunt crappy pk players. And rev caves should have a multi side with the multi side being buffed

This would solve most issues and it wouldn’t affect most pvm andies who only go wildly for clues

More mobs in rev caves and more variance of mobs in slayer cave and it should have a 3 tick delay like rev caves if you don’t have hard diary

[glacial gate]

Damn homie is SPITTIN

[low mesa]

Some entrances and exist should be on the 30 line and all escape routes should be 90 agility minimum

Drop rate for larrens Keys in wildly slayer cave buffed and a entrance fee

Rev caves entrance fee much higher and require minimum stats

Maledictus should reward top 3 players with less loot given overall

[glacial gate]

250k Rev cave fee instead of this measily 100k.

[low mesa]

Yes that is fair imo

[glacial gate]

You wanna cry bow in the caves, you deserve to be worth keeping the key.

Wow raggers are fixed

🤔

[low mesa]

Right now caves is low risk medium reward should be more high risk and extremely rewarding

Exactly

[glacial gate]

Idk about the 90 agi but honestly fuck it. Make it however just make it dangerous. Make it multi. Give me fuckin risk. I can tank ahk'ers in my anti setup already.

[low mesa]

Revs should hit harder as well so magic short bow raggers are cooked if they don’t have hard diary

[glacial gate]

You shouldnt be able to sustain forever off ppot drops and food drops imo

[low mesa]

It should be so rewarding even the most pvm Andy will risk going

[glacial gate]

Much riskier to tank on a half invey than full invey.

Add a revenant megarare scroll that unlocks keeping autocast on staff in wilderness.
The cheaters are all using clients to do this anyways.

[glacial gate]

thats what got me to go there day 1. The rewards!

Now its like. Why even lol

[low mesa]

You’d be surprised by what ppl are using

[glacial gate]

Yeah lol i only see when i fight them or youtube videos. I have no clue about anything past that.

crazy the wilderness has so many rules that only apply there.
Why at doom does slayer staff keep demonbane as autocast. Doesn't that destroy the skill expression of the content? Or it only matters if its against a player 🤔

i use doom as an example a lot because i love it lol

[low mesa]

Besides manked they’re also pvm Andy’s

[glacial gate]

it aint reddit. we can't expect interactions.

But i about gurantee theyre reading here from time to time.

[naive ore]

Autocast in wilderness was suggested a long time ago. Pvp community went against it so hard that they didnt even poll it. Something about it taking away skill expression from pvp

Also same reason why resizable spell icons was not allowed in pvp areas

Not sure how having to click on smaller box increases skill expression outside needing to keep mage switches near it for less mouse movement

Basically comes down to pvm being easier to balance and add qol because the monsters dont complain about it being unfair

[winged thorn]

I think part of it could be these things were bannable for a time. Even moving your prayer around wasn’t allowed for a bit. Personally idk why you wouldn’t allow it if it brought new ppl to pvp

[naive ore]

Like i understand the autocast part would lower skill ceiling since it makes it so much easier to freeze someone who is moving 2 tiles every tick and stepping under you.

The resizable spells would still require you to swap to spell book, click on spell and then click on player instead of just equipping staff and spam clicking

[brazen fox]

Idk it has a lot of downsides

If ur rly struggling to freeze off just tank 1 hit and put autocast on

Not tht deep

But u give up chase potential and ability to stick to ur opponent if u camp autocast

Would be outright bad in most situations tbh

Not that hard to learn to press f4 or whatever

[inner dew]

the first autocast is 1 tick slower or something right

[glacial gate]

only when you initiate combat with it

if you're actively in combat i dont believe so

i never autocast i dont know

[wide crater]

Sorry just catching up, but this shouldnt change because its not just about the skill difference. Its handicapping the person using it as well. Having autocast doesnt help when you have to use 3-4 different spls

[glacial gate]

enabling resizing would

[brazen fox]

Not anymore

[brazen fox]

Yh plus like now u can’t follow ur target easily and they gna gap u insta

[brazen fox]

Ye agreed kinda curious how it’d affect good players as well

Like would they be 1ticking 4 ways instead of 3ways etc

Didn’t bother trying it in dmm myself

[glacial gate]

it was so much fun, i still tried to muscle memory it but ehh lol

[next sequoia]

There is absolutely no reason wilderness bosses should be dropping larrans keys uncommonly on task. It should be a 1 in 10 chance at minimum. Not 1/50 like some of these bosses. or 1/100

[thick rover]

Cause it's harder to click a smaller icon?

So you express skill by being faster and more accurate

Almost the entire game is about clicking well

[fast cradle]

imo any idea of 1clicking autocast by clicking the weapon is making pvp easier

pvp is skill

[fringe fjord]

making pvp easier is good

[fast cradle]

disagree

[fringe fjord]

enjoy no new players engaging with it if you want to keep it hard those are the consequences

[fast cradle]

if you want to be good at pvp you learn to use fkeys and click quicker

[fringe fjord]

average player has no interest in fkeys or fast clicking you're going to be fishing in the pool of players that already does pvp to begin with

all fine, result is pvp remains inactive.

[fast cradle]

theres a problem with mindset and easy ways out in life, this is simply one of them.

[fringe fjord]

k

[fast cradle]

the reason pvp remains inactive isn't because players cant click on an ancient staff and automatically barrage another player

its the infastructure within the wilderness

[fringe fjord]

all fine pretending its a mindset problem that just needs to change

reality is

[fast cradle]

creating the environment

[fringe fjord]

average player has my mindset

you will not change their mindset

you learn how to develop around it or enjoy dead pvp

[fast cradle]

thats like saying lets make pvm easier

[fringe fjord]

that is what they already do

[fast cradle]

lets make the inferno easier because players cant do it..

[fringe fjord]

almost all new content is mid game content

[fast cradle]

lmao

[fringe fjord]

or makes harder older content easier

why do you think this is

the average player is bad at the game and doesn't do much beyond afking slayer and bank training

[torpid lily]

average player has no interest in fkeys or fast clicking

Hard disagree

otherwise ca's wouldnt be a thing

[fringe fjord]

not an opinion

most of the game has no relevant ca's

[torpid lily]

its not a fact

[fast cradle]

baffled at your mindset its like you want things spoonfed

[torpid lily]

the vast majority of this game is pvm oriented

[fringe fjord]

grandmasters are about as big of a part of the game as people that pvp

so almost no one

[fast cradle]

lmao

[torpid lily]

even not going for gm

[fringe fjord]

this is how you get pvp to be active

[torpid lily]

people will do gaunlet

people will do gwd

[fast cradle]

no it isn't lol

[fringe fjord]

the fast majority of the game can't even do jad lol

[torpid lily]

all require a lot of clicking and f keys etc

[fringe fjord]

gwd requires no fkeys

[torpid lily]

i think you severely underestimate the playerbase if you think the majority cant do jad

[fringe fjord]

you overestimate the game if you think the average player is doing anything beyond zulrah

[torpid lily]

and zulrah already requires a lot of clicking and f keys?

[fringe fjord]

no

[torpid lily]

constant prayer and position switching

[fast cradle]

the lack of content and proper infrastructure in the wilderness to create the environment for it to be active and making players want to learn PvP is the reason its dead

[fringe fjord]

?

[torpid lily]

keeping up with phases etc

[torpid lily]

deaths costing near to nothing is the real reason IMO

[fringe fjord]

you follow a pre determined cycle of locations and switch prayer once evey 15 seconds

[torpid lily]

theres a reason why most pkers in this game were active pre eoc and early osrs

they know you lose stuff and that its a part of the game

[fast cradle]

this guy probably client scripts everything lets be real @torpid lily

[torpid lily]

deaths arent punishment anymore

[fringe fjord]

just one more content update pls jagex this time it'll work

will never work btw

[fast cradle]

just wants another easy thing to do lol

[fringe fjord]

average player will NEVER have any interest in wilderness pvp no matter how hard it's pushed because NH is the standard there

and NH is terrible for average players

[fast cradle]

its ok I understand you've got those plugins to make you robotscape everything kald

😄

[fringe fjord]

?

keep crying all whilst the wilderness remains dead because the average player has no interest in sweatscape

your choice

[torpid lily]

your reasoning doesnt add up

especially since wildy pvp is much more than nhing

[fringe fjord]

wildy pvp is not more than NH

if you are anti pking you are anti pking against nhers lol

[torpid lily]

Well not anymore cuz clans died, but they didnt die cuz it was a f-key and click sweatfest

[fringe fjord]

NH is the standard form of pvp and the average player will never want to do it ever

clans being dead is good

[torpid lily]

no its not

[fringe fjord]

very good for single players

its basically impossible to die in the wilderness right now in singles

[torpid lily]

im not talking about single clans

[fringe fjord]

you can always just freeze log why would the majority of people using the wilderness that don't want to pk want to change that rn

explain

why would they vote to make things worse?

[torpid lily]

i dont disagree that the majority right now doesnt want to pk in the wildy

death machanics made people whine to much when they actually lose stuff

hence why most pkers still around have been doing it for 15 or so years

they grew up knowing theyd lose stuff for fun

[fringe fjord]

i can guarantee the average normie has the same opinions as I have about nh being a sweatfest

[torpid lily]

nowadays people want a single player MMORPG pretty much

[fringe fjord]

and the difference is that i'm actually good at pvp and they're not

they have no interest in even doing it

the only way to get them to do it is to make everything giga easy to get into

[torpid lily]

the average normie would probs think timmy nothumbs doing a 3 way switch is already a sweaty nher

[fringe fjord]

yes

i do not want to log in after work and click 50 times a second

i want to log in click veng and gmaul and spec

average apm of wilderness pvp is too high for casual players to find it enjoyable

but thats if you are pvper vs pvper

[torpid lily]

in 2026? I agree

But there have been plenty of moments in osrs where that wasnt the case

and people still didnt do it

multi pvp was VERY accessible, so were pvp worlds barring the high risk ones

rev caves were very accessible

[fast cradle]

kald

[torpid lily]

Jagex ignored pvp for so long

that yeah at some point theres no return

[winged thorn]

😭

[fringe fjord]

multi pvp is not accessible at all because it requires you to have friends and find a clan which is arguably a bigger barrier of entry for most players than anything else

[winged thorn]

Friends is a massive barrier of entry

[fringe fjord]

true

[winged thorn]

If you’re neat

[torpid lily]

finding a clan was piss easy when clans were still active