could do both
#Steam workshop is a bad place for custom levels
trim shadow
put the levels themselves on the workshop and then develop an extension for custom reviews and other wacky stuff and host that separately themselves
would save storage space too
i hope they will at least have an ingame level browser much like tmodloader has an ingame mod browser
cuz restarting your game after installing workshop content would be extremely inconvenient
there is also the issue of copy protection
if the entire level file is downloaded to the pc then it basically becomes free real estate lol
even if the devs put some sort of protection in place, unity games aren’t exactly known for being difficult to decompile
but that’s an entirely different issue
maybe we’ll just have to count on our fellow players not being assholes
strong idol
These are valid concerns! We haven't prototyped the steam workshop to a point where it's usable in-game yet, but that is absolutely our intention. We want to browse and play levels easily in-game like you can in several other titles that have Workshop support. However, even if we encrypt level saves there is always a way around it. It's something we'll continue looking into, but we don't have any news to share on it right now.
As for custom servers, it's something we can't solely maintain and financially support, so Steam Workshop is what we're fully reliant on.
trim shadow
i guess you can’t really truly protect the levels
best you can do is make it as difficult as possible, but anyone with the know-how and enough motivation will eventually get past it
but idk if i see anyone actually doing it
lbp didn’t have any issues back in the day afaik
do game devs have any control over their steam workshop? if you do you could moderate it i guess
difficult problem to solve, but who knows.. hopefully it won’t even be a problem at all 🤣
i don’t see this community as the kind that is riddled with malicious cheaters
quiet girder
Servers are expensive and outside of the teams budget currently maybe in the future though
real wasp
i don’t see this community as the kind that is riddled with malicious cheaters
if there are enough people, some of them will be bad
here's my take: just about any other creation that you put on the internet can be copied without your consent. no matter how many hoops a malicious individual has to go through to take your stuff, it's not unlikely that someone will still do it
trim shadow
here's my take: just about any other creation that you put on the internet can b...
cloud gaming entered the chat
signal moss
Workshop is fine for indie games
Hat in time has it, octodad had it
It works great for them, this isn't a AAA product that can afford its own servers
wise vine
it's generous of valve to provide services like this in the first place
most other companies would just tell you to deal with it
trim shadow
valve is pretty based tho 💪
gentle blaze
Hat in time has it, octodad had it
as someone in the HIT community, yeah it's great for indie games :3
gentle blaze
the community for mods is amazing, i actually did voice work for it OH OH YOU THINK WE'LL HAVE VOICE INTEGRATION???
cause i 100% will find voice actors to join the restitched community >:3c
signal moss
Hat in time is sooo good
gentle blaze
ye, OH you ever played Hat Kid Steals the Declaration of Independence level?
signal moss
Nah
signal moss
Gmod is the most notable workshop game
And that's fine
Although it allows content from other sites if you manually download it and drag it on in
wise vine
the community for mods is amazing, i actually did voice work for it OH OH YOU TH...
i mean, there is supposed to be some kind of narrative
gentle blaze
well yes, but some games don't use actual voice lines/very few [hat in time as an example] and even lbp1 had sounds instead of voices just text.
so i thought Voiced line mods or custom levels with voices added [like what i as in] could be a cool thing
sorry if i worded it weird, i am not the best at words sometimes ^^
visual fossil
Although it allows content from other sites if you manually download it and drag...
Gmod is annoying because you often have to restart for things to load properly. That would be terrible for levels.
signal moss
It works for portal 2 levels pretty well
wise vine
Gmod is annoying because you often have to restart for things to load properly. ...
games actually CAN read workshop items in real-time
well, atleast with a refresh
visual fossil
Yeah, but from my experience, 2/3 games can't. Steam workshop is also terrible for knowing if an item is outdated from an update.
strong idol
Levels are a bit different in this case I think. It’s not something you keep in your game or subscribe to, unlike Garry’s Mod or Portal 2 content. You’d download it to play the level, then when it’s finished/left I imagine it gets removed from your game
strong idol
Workshop is used for a wide range of stuff in games, and if it allows you to delete the subscription from in-game UI then it could be as simple as unsubscribing for the player once the level is closed.
It's something we'll prototype in the near future, but for now we're getting through some other stuff first :)
In any case, we'll figure something out!
visual fossil
Levels are a bit different in this case I think. It’s not something you keep in ...
That would be terrible for data caps and slow internet. Some amount of cache would be required.
I have slow internet, and on top of that, if I download too much, it just cuts out completely. So, limiting downloads as much as possible would be really nice.
trim shadow
mobile data providers 🤣
strong idol
Restitched levels are currently not even 1 MB, so I can't imagine they'll be very big at all
It's not injecting your game with new content like a lot of titles do. Instead, we're just telling your game how to arrange the content you've already downloaded from the base game.
I'm really not sure how we'll go about it. I'm not a programmer haha
signal moss
mobile data providers 🤣
Is this an American thing
trim shadow
idk i am not american
visual fossil
It's not injecting your game with new content like a lot of titles do. Instead, ...
Ah, that's good, then.
trim shadow
i imagine all materials are just a bunch of vertex positions, indices and some configurations per object (uv offset, physics and whatnot)
as for pre-made models, if you value small file sizes you could just store those as an object id, location and scale etc
signal moss
Too computery for moi
strong idol
as for pre-made models, if you value small file sizes you could just store those...
That’s what we do :)
The save just references all the existing assets as an ID and tells you how to load it I think
It serializes things like stamps, texture choice, location, scale, rotation, layer range, ornaments, settings, props, etc. etc.
and ofc the player save remembers your UI color and cosmetic choices
trim shadow
i imagine all materials are just a bunch of vertex positions, indices and some c...
now that i think about this, it probably wouldn't be a very good idea to do it this way cuz it opens a door for modders to load in custom models
unless you force the depth position on a layer index i guess
well, i'm sure y'all got it covered lol
real wasp
what if an asset's ID changes in an update for some reason?
trim shadow
i'd say use enumerations so that doesn't happen
magic number ids are terrible
the little bit of extra space a string will take over a number is negligible
unless you live in the 90s i guess
strong idol
now that i think about this, it probably wouldn't be a very good idea to do it t...
how so?
strong idol
what if an asset's ID changes in an update for some reason?
Asset IDs should never be changed. Also if duplicate IDs are used then it will fail to import
I've not personally tested what happens if you swap asset IDs in a saved level, then try to load it again
That could be interesting to try
Asset IDs are something we enter manually on every new asset the player can use, so the game has almost no chance of mixing them up as it's not generated or anything like that
real wasp
Asset IDs are something we enter manually on every new asset the player can use,...
ahhhh
yeah that sounds like a good idea
I was assuming you meant Unity asset IDs
trim shadow
lol hell nah
strong idol
well, everything that you save for the game to interpet can be modded 🤔
tbh anything can be modded, even if we don't want that
modding can be fun, but it can also easily get out of hand
trim shadow
yeah
which is why i imagine you'd want to limit shenanigans on an unmodded client as much as possible
strong idol
it's always a shame when leakers dive into encrypted files and show things that aren't ready yet
if people want to mod their own game for personal reasons, then that's one thing. If they start distributing mods that are harmful then it could be problematic
though if you mod restitched you'd be replacing an existing asset ID probably. Also if you publish a level with an asset ID that you've somehow added then other players can't load your level
or maybe they can load it, but it gets swapped with an error placeholder I think
trim shadow
in the end, anything that happens when someone installs a sussy mod is their responsibility imo
strong idol
that's true, but it depends what the game allows unknowingly
trim shadow
yes
strong idol
like what if someone mods the game and messes with the asset IDs that the level reads, then tries to save it and publish it on the official workshop page
what will happen to players that unknowingly load a modded level?
I don't know of any way they can inject things into the file, though nothing is impossible
trim shadow
in the case of levels on the workshop, i'd say that is your responsibility cuz ur the ones who provide that 🤣
ugc tough nut to crack, huh
strong idol
We can moderate, but it's impossible to see every published thing
trim shadow
just test your level loader as much as you can
hell, put unit tests in place and test for all kinds of wacky scenarios
strong idol
I have a feeling we'll devote some time at the end of development to put safety measures in place, but they will only hold for so long tbh
wise vine
to be honest, if you're modding
you aren't gonna mess around with trying to make it work on the workshop
strong idol
that doesn't mean we should allow for modded content to be put there
people will do it for sure if they can mod the game
if there's no way to filter out the modded content, then normal players might run into bad experiences by loading things that are modded
we'll discuss it more eventually, explore ways to combat it, then deal with it through moderation.
outside of that we can't do much else anyway
other than issue takedowns to problematic content or ban people from posting on the workshop
quiet girder
I think the best way to make people aware of the issues is just to give a warning in game if something doesn't match the base game files for example
"We have detected that you have changed stuffies stitches we advise against making any alterations to stuffy or his world as this can cause problems that can hurt not only stuffy but the whole (insert name of in-game universe here) for the safest and most optimised experience please restore all files to their original state"
You could of course make it sound more serious
strong idol
If we could detect modified game stuff like that then we could make it unplayable until fixed, but ahaha idk how that would work
quiet girder
Hmmm true but unless you find a way to stop people sharing modded content (frankly that's impossible) there's nothing you can really do
quiet girder
I imagine within like a month or two people will be swapping audio files and other stuff
But as long as Trixel doesn't openly support the use of copyright material you are completely fine
visual fossil
Ah, that's good, then.
I realized this afterwards, but being able to play offline would be really nice.
As for aggressively preventing any sort of mods to be installed, here's one of the many reasons why you shouldn't do that:
trim shadow
don't let this distract you from the fact that vrchat's community has a bad side that likes crashing people's games for fun and shit
visual fossil
Yeah, and EAC made that worse by removing anti-crash mods.
wise vine
that doesn't mean we should allow for modded content to be put there
i never said that
i never implied that
i just said
modders are gonna ignore the workshop
because they'll know that you cant post content on there due to the way the levels work
can't wait for the Restitched gamebanana page
rocky jetty
*cloud gaming entered the chat*
Cloud gaming is cringe for many other reasons
snow quarry
Levels are a bit different in this case I think. It’s not something you keep in ...
Something similar to DZSA for DayZ could be the cheapest option. Still expensive
snow quarry
As for aggressively preventing any sort of mods to be installed, here's one of t...
Why can't people just play the game that was made?? I don't get it
visual fossil
Because it heavily lacked QoL features. Almost immediately after that review bomb, the devs added more features than they ever have.
Chat boxes, avatar searching, teleporting to other players (invaluable in massive worlds), finer audio adjustments, performance improvements, anti-crash mods, colourblind assist and colour filtering were all modded in.
snow quarry
I doubt any of that will be an issue here
of course performance stuff can always be improved, but not via mods
visual fossil
But they disabled all of that, because people found a way to favourite unlimited avatars, and the VRChat devs wanted you to pay a subscription for that.
visual fossil
of course performance stuff can always be improved, but not via mods
People can mod in FSR and some other things.
Teardown is another game where people have added performance improvements via mods. There's a whole performance optimizer tool that's a Steam Workshop mod. Though, FSR and DXVK can't be added via Workshop.
snow quarry
I think the game will run fine, and if it has any hiccups, they'll fix them
visual fossil
The game's running on Unity, right?
trim shadow
of course performance stuff can always be improved, but not via mods
sometimes people want to change or add stuff that the provided tool does not allow or cannot do
why did it tag the wrong message
snow quarry
The game's running on Unity, right?
yeah
snow quarry
sometimes people want to change or add stuff that the provided tool does not all...
Well then it isn't the game that was intended anymore to me. I might offline mod old games but not new titles that I haven't even played or that are very new
visual fossil
Yeah, GEO will depend heavily on the Unity version.
It only received support for high core count CPUs semi-recently.
trim shadow
Well then it isn't the game that was intended anymore to me. I might offline mod...
then don’t lol
visual fossil
Well then it isn't the game that was intended anymore to me. I might offline mod...
2 of the games I play the most are only as popular as they are because of mods. And they're not even released yet. The mods work as a way to add more content while the devs work on more important things.
snow quarry
then don’t lol
That's.... what I said. lol. But the point of Restitched is to play the game the dev team worked hard to make, not mod in what I already know many will try to mod in
snow quarry
But they disabled all of that, because people found a way to favourite unlimited...
yeah I very very highly doubt there's a chance in the universe subscriptions would ever happen. like, Restitched is made by people who feel usually the same way as players. That's why indie games are sometimes the best. Plus, it won't release broken and need to be patched for a year to be playable like AAA games have for the past 5 years or so
quiet girder
yeah I very very highly doubt there's a chance in the universe subscriptions wou...
AAA Games try not to break on release challenge (impossible)
snow quarry
2 of the games I play the most are only as popular as they are because of mods. ...
how are you playing if it isn't out?
visual fossil
They're early-access games.
snow quarry
They're early-access games.
oh lord lol
the best of the worst can be found in that steam section
early access to me is a dev's way of just getting it "out" until its actually done
which is sloppy jane
visual fossil
Well, in at least one of the dev's came, they're a really small team who are making the most advanced vehicle sim ever, so they need the financial support.
Plus, it's nice to be able to actually enjoy the game, lol.
snow quarry
Plus, it's nice to be able to actually enjoy the game, lol.
2,800+ HOURSSSSS
visual fossil
Yup, sandbox games are fun, lol.
snow quarry
Yup, sandbox games are fun, lol.
Idk if i've even lived that long LOL
snow quarry
Yup, sandbox games are fun, lol.
I would almost say that many hours qualifies as an addiction lol
visual fossil
That's over the course of many years.
I've been playing it for at least 4 years, which is about 750 hours a year. Or 14 hours a week.
snow quarry
I've been playing it for at least 4 years, which is about 750 hours a year. Or 1...
OHHHH. how is it still in early access then?
snow quarry
I've been playing it for at least 4 years, which is about 750 hours a year. Or 1...
that's a part time job LOL
a fun one tho
visual fossil
OHHHH. how is it still in early access then?
There's like 30 devs working on it, and it's the most advanced vehicle physics sim that normal people can buy.
They'd hire more people to make the game, but that requires money, which they only get by selling the game.
snow quarry
There's like 30 devs working on it, and it's the most advanced vehicle physics s...
I think I know which game it is now!
I used to see people crashing cars in videos or something
snow quarry
They'd hire more people to make the game, but that requires money, which they on...
they could pick up a publisher
i'm blanking out. i hope that's the correct word
visual fossil
I used to see people crashing cars in videos or something
Yup, that's the game.
snow quarry
Yup, that's the game.
i've always wanted to crash one in it lol
visual fossil
they could pick up a publisher
From what I've heard, they don't want to have anything that could negatively interfere with development. They don't even sell the game in China because otherwise they'd have to sell part of the company to a Chinese company.
Yeah, it's pretty fun. That's why I'm nearing 3,000 hours, lol.
snow quarry
From what I've heard, they don't want to have anything that could negatively int...
I don't blame them on that
snow quarry
Yeah, it's pretty fun. That's why I'm nearing 3,000 hours, lol.
do they just add new cars as updates?
it's soooo super accurate its scary lol
visual fossil
Yup. It's still in alpha, so a bunch of stuff is added each update. They're working on cars, maps, career mode, etc.
visual fossil
There's a bunch of different paths you can take. Delivery jobs, racing, movie stunts, police chases, etc.
snow quarry
There's a bunch of different paths you can take. Delivery jobs, racing, movie st...
oh wow. that sounds nice
visual fossil
Ye.
trim shadow
That's.... what I said. lol. But the point of Restitched is to play the game the...
that could be said for practically every game out there. yet people will mod, so who cares
quiet girder
The Devs can't be sued for what modders do so
violet flower
personally i have no issues with steam workshop, although i'd prefer for level downloading to be handled in game as well if possible, since searching for particular content in the workshop is difficult sometimes, plus having it in game opens up new options not restricted to the workshop, such as better search settings, like counters, and other things not supported by the workshop lol.
snow quarry
personally i have no issues with steam workshop, although i'd prefer for level d...
I’m sure they’ll figure out the best solution for everyone. They (formerly we) always do.
PS - I almost typed we but had to correct myself lol.
sturdy oxide
The Devs can't be sued for what modders do so
Yeah, just like windows can't be sued for having viruses being made on the Operating System
violet flower
These are valid concerns! We haven't prototyped the steam workshop to a point wh...
if the game is a smash hit i think you guys will be able to financially support the game
fast canopy
These are valid concerns! We haven't prototyped the steam workshop to a point wh...
maybe its a stretch but what if there was a unique ID in the level and no two levels of the same ID could be uploaded at the same time?
or something of the sort
trim shadow
depending on the size of the id the chance of any 2 ids being identical is so small you might as well say it's impossible
you'd probably be more likely to get struck by lightning 3 times in a row and then winning the lottery
snow quarry
That would be a good thing, no? Nobody can copy your levels
snow quarry
that's called: art theft