on-speed AoA FBW behavior/trim

[wooden summit]

during carrier landings in VTOL you have to manually keep the aircraft in the AoA of ~8 degrees. In real life Navy carrier ops, during carrier landings you do not use pitch, only throttle to control vertical speed. during the downwind leg of the case 1 recovery, after deploying full flaps and gear, you do not pitch the aircraft to control attitude/AoA/altitude, you merely apply more throttle. It would be nice for the current FBW to automatically implement this, so when it recognizes hook down and gear down, it automatically adjusts its behavior to be more realistic.

[glacial scarab]

https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1253469977961562122

a post for a PLM was already made

[wooden summit]

whoops i'll remove that segment

[peak badger]

i very much dislike the idea, and here are my reasons why:

1. i dislike the idea of PLM or similar systems to help you with stuff like carrier landings, as those are one of the two actually challenging things to do well in vtol, and these are quite useful as they can show how well you mastered the control over aircraft (at least from typical vtol vr activities, this excludes all kinds of flights through bridges, etc)

2. i dislike this implementation in particular, because it forces this behavior onto everyone who wants to land on a carrier, not only to those who want to use this system

Also, i dont fully understand what this would do. you say "you do not pitch the aircraft to control attitude/AoA/altitude, you merely apply more throttle" when it comes to IRL, but that is what happens in vtol too.
by changing the throttle, you can control the AoA, as more thrust means less AoA, and vice versa. So how would this work? would it pitch the plane to ensure 8 AoA? what would it actually do?

[wooden summit]

IRL you trim to 8 AoA and then dont touch pitch again. your AoA stays at 8 degrees and you pitch the plane up and down with throttle, not stick

or just add trim

[wooden summit]

PLM is an option and not a requirement, but we have an aircraft that is supposed to be the most modern, futuristic thing possible. adding PLM/ACLS is not the craziest thing ever.

[peak badger]

that sounds like a very weird setup to fly. would throw off most if not all people, especially if it would engage automatically. i remember flying a plane (tho in a different game) which was trying to hold an AoA, it was worse than rotation rate based fly by wire (which is what the current one in vtol feels like)

[wooden summit]

its not really that crazy. its just a proper carrier landing. its been used since the f-4 if not even earlier, throttle for glideslope and trim to aoa

[peak badger]

if the aircraft youre referring to is the 45, then there are more important things that wound need to be added to it for it to be considered "most modern, futuristic thing possible", at least by my standards

[wooden summit]

they can add those things too its not a competition

[peak badger]

im not saying its crazy, im saying its unintuitive (and plain weird) to use. and i think it would be even worse in vr

[peak badger]

my point was to disqualify the 45 as being the "most modern, futuristic thing possible". either way, i dont think its even an issue of being modern or not, and by your comment of it being used since the F-4, i doubt you think so too

[sage violet]

I think it could be worth considering these FBW changes and make them into an aerodynamics overhaul. Currently, VTOL has automatic trim that does a very good job of maintaining pitch and banked attitudes. Once you are on speed to land on the boat, you really can just make small power and bank adjustments.
I wouldn't mind having manual trim to deal with, but for vtol I think it's unnecessary complexity.

[desert veldt]

big deal with trim on fixed wing is that you would need to do the AH-94 style double collective thing, but for the stick, so you can still have a cursor slew

[sage violet]

I think I would rather commit sewer slide than use a double stick, imma be real xd

Maybe the unused throttle button could change flight modes or something