Server sided and Client sided modding

[blissful belfry]

From what I've gathered from talks mods are on a separate branch by choice this is a thing on modded branch tho, also rwr sound mods do exist but they are considered a form of cheating baha just doesn't care lol

[silent carbon]

What would be really interesting is to have minor vanilla aircraft changed with mods still applicable in the base game. Like the F-35 mod which removes the F-45 canards, I just want em off even if the other players still see them

It’s technically a visual advantage though

[blissful belfry]

They don't really add or take a anything from gameplay

🤷‍♂️

I'm personally all for mods being added to the main branch and main game but there's a big group against it sadly and baha also doesn't want it to be added

[reef moat]

mods should be the same as player made content (lively). So that server can have their own custom configurations instead of feature_requests that are left to rot. Such as Symmetric Weapon Armament for both sides, or new missiles.

[hollow trellis]

I'm for mod integration. Lots of other similar games like arma for example do that iirc

[blissful belfry]

Exactly

I keep seeing chase bring up "oh it's gonna divide the community oh it's gonna make finding unmodded games"

But like

I doubt

[hollow trellis]

Yeah I agree

Plus most servers will prob just use the caw modpack

[blissful belfry]

Well that or some modifyed form of it

[worldly stag]

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for Chase.

But this anti-modding sentiment when it comes to VTOL is:

1. Ironic, given VTOL VR would likely not exist without Bahamuto's work on BDArmory for KSP.
2. Stupid, given every argument against it has the durability of wet toilet paper
3. Dangerous to the community's longevity, given that the dripfeed of content and updates from Baha, no offense, is clearly insufficient for the community's desires. Modding is the clear solution here but big names in the community have convinced him that mods are apparently not a wise idea when literally every other developer in Bahamuto's situation has done the exact opposite and embraced modding - just look at Teardown, or Stormworks, or Nebulous.

[blissful belfry]

Omfg yes

I love chase he's done great work but he seems to think people can't make choices

[worldly stag]

I can tell you right now if either Baha doesn't step up development efforts by hiring people to help on the game or concede to allow modding more openly.

This is why modding partially is welcomed by devs - it takes pressure off them to create content and develop for the game, when the community can generate content for them gratis, that boosts the value of the game exponentially.

This is why Garry's Mod succeeded - Garry Newman saw how important modding culture was to the PC games industry.

And he saw the potential Source had for it.

And look at it now.

It's spawned countless machinima, endless mods and maps, and the community whilst not in as good a condition as it once was, was chugging along just fine for 10+ years with a vibrant userbase.

Neglecting modders and treating them like ugly stepchildren isn't going to bode well.

Especially when the game is begging for such support.

[blissful belfry]

Like I love baha don't get me wrong but the fact that he doesn't officially endorce and support modding when he gets like maybe 3 decent content updates out and a handful of small qol changes a year is vary upsetting to me especially given how backwoods buried mods are for vtol like yea we have the client but most people don't know of it's existence leading to a supreme lack of mods and users of it lol

[worldly stag]

Exactly.

Baha's got two solutions here to keep the game going - ramp up development, or let the community buy him time by creating content. And unfortunately there's only so many times you can play Liberation, ATC Free flights or Ranked PvP before it gets old.

Otherwise the game's gonna hemmorhage users, and in a niche like VR, it's not going to bode well.

[blissful belfry]

It's already dropping people

[worldly stag]

Hell, this whole argument of "I won't add aircraft if they don't give a meaningful feature" is idiotic.

[blissful belfry]

Honestly the community outlooks on most things if it doesn't bring an entire new way to play and look at the game seems to be extremely hostile

It's quite odd

[worldly stag]

I'm not going to mince words, and I'm sorry if Bahamuto sees this and gets uppity, but I find it fucking stupid.

[lone lichen]

VTOL VR is pretty damn old, I honestly forgot that, but yeah this game is kinda easy to get bored on

[worldly stag]

That sentiment dug Paolo into a hole that is gonna be a PITA to get out of.

Because when people clearly do not fucking care for the AV-42.

And people want something like the A-10.

Or people want to fly the OPFOR aircraft.

[lone lichen]

Not to mention that getting in and out of VR can be a hassle, depending on your set-up.
I'd rather just go play WT half the time then VTOL VR.

Having modded aircraft, or modded enemies would be great to mix things up

[blissful belfry]

The only time I justify the hatred is the bomber and a10 requests lmao because you basically already have those and or you just don't realize the lack of entertainment that it would bring

[worldly stag]

And his, and every hardasses' response is "No MeAnInGfUl FeAtUrE?", it makes me want to spam AMRAAMs at them out of spite.

[blissful belfry]

It's not even that people don't care for the 42 because they do but mission makers don't want to work with it and baha doesn't want to add the qol that people have been begging for on it for years

[worldly stag]

Personally I can't stand flying the fucker.

[lone lichen]

The AV-42 deserves love.

[worldly stag]

It's a fat pig that unlike other ground attack jets is fat for no reason other than to carry troops which is a fucking gimmick at this point.

[blissful belfry]

I find it supremely uncomfortable to fly with the haphazardly placed collective and lack of qol

[blissful belfry]

One that isn't used

[worldly stag]

Get rid of the troop carrying capacity, shrink down the fucking cockpit, and call it a day.

[lone lichen]

The AV-42 is uncomfortable as fuck to pilot, it's controls are so widely spaced :/

[worldly stag]

Exactly!

[lone lichen]

It just needs QoL

[blissful belfry]

The cockpit rework was cool

But it didn't change or help anything

[worldly stag]

But Baha seems to not give two shits.

[blissful belfry]

Just made it slightly better to look at

[lone lichen]

Only thing I guess that can be called "bad" for modding is, people making modded aircraft that could affect future DLC aircraft purchases.

[worldly stag]

Hell, I wonder why we even have this feature request section when even among the good ideas, like Helmet Liveries and the sort, nothing ever gets added.

It reminds me of that fucking Dan Mason song.

It's just wishful thinking - It's just wishful thinkiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing

https://youtu.be/87tDdjCMEW0

[blissful belfry]

I bring this up all the time there are several hundred+ thumbs on that people want to see added at some point with zero input or response from baha but some random fuck ass addition that wouldn't bring much gets the eyes and the baha stamp

And I get it baha doesn't like to set himself in stone for things because he may back out of it

But atleast communicate

Don't just leave it to rot

[fringe karma]

tbh from a personal project standpoint it makes sense. Doing the F-16 mod and currently working on the A-10 mod, shit is boring af. Like yeah having a new cockpit and a cool plane to look at in mp is hella cool don't get me wrong. But most of the dev time is spent redoing mundane things and there isn't much satisfaction (at least for me) in it. It's very possible for baha to whip out like 4-5 fa-26b clones by the end of the year if all he did was work on aircraft. But then that's less time working on a cool new feature that brings in new challenges (implementation-wise) to solve which can be satisfying

[blissful belfry]

But let's be honest here there's not much that he could realistically add that would bring those new features atp

Even if it's just another fa26 effectively give it a new flavor of armorment

He has an entire side of equipment untouched

[worldly stag]

True, but at the same time, even when people suggest features like that new one that essentially is a VTOL Modular support craft for Lifting/AWACS and refuelling, it goes uncared about when it would be great for multicrew play.

Hell, you want a reason to add OPFOR fighters as playable?

IRST.

Boom.

[fringe karma]

irst is meh

[worldly stag]

Hey, it's a feature, fuckers want features apparently!

[blissful belfry]

Irsts unique missles and new flavors of ground munitions

[worldly stag]

Destructible runways and anti-runway munitions like Durandal?

[blissful belfry]

It's all just

Forgotten

For no real good reason

[brazen vessel]

So just so we're clear, your opinion is that baha is an idiot for wanting to work on new exciting features for new aircraft rather than 10 copies of the F/A-26b.

That is back when baha was deciding what to do next, and chose the EF-24, you believe it would have been better for him to release a new aircraft with no new features, and that he is an idiot for not doing that?

[worldly stag]

I am not saying Baha is an idiot. I'm saying that given the community's collective desire for more content and being dripfed it, this sentiment is hurting more than helping. The EF-24 was a good idea. It's probably my favorite aircraft.

But when people desire more, and every aspect of the battlespace that people want to partake in to a profitable degree is expended, where does one go from here?

[blissful belfry]

It really just feels like there's no variety in aircraft and what they do like there's only one for each type and that's it really just feels stale

I just want something that flys and looks different

🤷‍♂️

New features or not

[worldly stag]

I and many others would willingly pay money to see the ASF series playable in an official capacity, even if the only thing at most that is added is IRST functionality.

[neon scroll]

have you actually played the game?

[blissful belfry]

A fair bit yes

[worldly stag]

Does that answer your question?

[lone lichen]

I'd drop 20-30 bucks for the ASF fighters to be playable as DLC

[neon scroll]

idk how someone with a few hours can say there's no variety in the aircraft

[worldly stag]

There's variety, yes.

The issue is, it's all BLUFOR, so it feels so samey on the surface.

[brazen vessel]

where does one go from here?
This hypothetical is always comedic to me, yes years down the line Ill concead that repetition will be required as everything is covered, however we're extremely far from hitting that, so why waste dev time on pointless things while we still have new features/content/gameplay to be introduced

[worldly stag]

Then give me 4 examples of features that aircraft could be developed around.

[brazen vessel]

concede to allow modding more openly
Baha allows modding extremely openly, the lack of mods is not baha's fault

[fringe karma]

an expanded logistics system is a big one

[lone lichen]

They all pretty much handle the same for the most part?
There is some variety in weapons
But the flight models aren't super distinct, WT fly models between various variants of the same aircraft do honestly tend to feel more different. Having "feel" in a VR game is pretty hard though

[blissful belfry]

I put it like that because you literally have the 26 that just does everything the 45 which is sneak and the 24 for ew that's it you don't get any choices beyond those in those slots these aircraft have been out for years atp adding a couple allbeit redundant aircraft for the sake of variety and diversifying those positions for example aircraft with refor equivalent munitions would certainly add variety and interest

[lone lichen]

More planes = some more content
Looking at past updates, and I'm a pretty damn casual player with not a very large amount of playtime, there is a decent width of features, but not a super large amount of death.

[worldly stag]

Okay, let me rephrase that, modding should be more integrated than it is. But again, I ask, 4 examples of features that we haven't tackled already.

[brazen vessel]

EF2000, UH-60, F-111, OH-58

[neon scroll]

the title of this thread doesn't make sense. shouldnt it be Server side or client side modding? 😹

[brazen vessel]

I won't dig into the arguments for each aircraft right now, iv done that to death, but its not my point to make that argument anyway, im not a game dev

[worldly stag]

What does the EF-2000 do that isn't done already?

[blissful belfry]

The guy deleted the post because he didn't realize from what I can guess that the modding client exists

[worldly stag]

UH-60, I get.

[brazen vessel]

I won't dig into the arguments for each aircraft right now

[worldly stag]

Fine.

[blissful belfry]

The thread is just still open

🤷‍♂️

[worldly stag]

Then if someone else wants to explain it, I'm all ears.

[brazen vessel]

more integrated
You hit subscribe on the workshop then hit launch, integration isn't the limitation here

[neon scroll]

the issue with modding is trying to gather people into modded lobbies

[blissful belfry]

I really do feel the immediate shut down of any aircraft that doesn't add a magical new way to play the game or any requests for modding to be properly supported rather then shunned to a separate client hurts the game and peoples outlook on it more then it helps people suggest "new" and "unique" ideas

[neon scroll]

being able to auto subscribe without leaving the game would help modded servers get going

[brazen vessel]

The games you listed have much more complicated modding processes. Games like KSP, Terraria, Minecraft, all do not have any 'native' modding support and require external tools, yet the modding communities in such games is great

[lone lichen]

The game is already almost 8-ish years old right?
How many more years do you think people want to wait for things that they want?
Problem is ultimately Baha is just one dude, I don't know how many resources plane mod creators get, but if liveries don't even get .blend or .spp files pre-made, or when all of the livery resources are all community driven.

People are very much willing from what i know to make content for the game, it's just the weird sentiment around modding being some weird fucking evi lthing is again weird.

[fringe karma]

No particular order

• Expanded logistics system (sling loading, cargo transport, and more ME support for logi-related stuff)

• Big wing gameplay. Pretty much also goes into the logi part except you can do paratropping and logi with way more cargo. Could also slap some ac-130 style guns and jato for some more variety

• 6th gen fighter. VTOL being set in a fictional near-future universe, there's a unique opportunity to add in a low maneuverability 6th gen fighter that has an emphasis on manner/unmanned teaming. Although tbh that part can just be added to the 45 and it'll make sense

• Anti-sub warfare. I'm personally not a fan of this one being it's own dedicated aircraft or anythin. But it could be a neat mini-game for something like a cargo heli

[neon scroll]

and then there's no doubt issues when Baha breaks mods with future updates, but people just have to deal with it

[blissful belfry]

Taking with custard and Sneezy and a little bit with hackit seems the outlook is the game is vary near end of life and adding these things and supports would certainly extend and help it

[blissful belfry]

That's just a side effect of modding lol

Happens with every game

[brazen vessel]

But it could be a neat mini-game for something like a cargo heli
uh60 and av42c could integrate with it

[lone lichen]

Finding matches is pretty hard for me sometimes

Most of the time, me and @fringe flower just host our own, and hope some people join

[fringe karma]

hard disagree with ef2000 and F-111

light disagree with kiowa

[worldly stag]

I do agree with F-111, but disagree on EF-2000 and the Kiowa.

[brazen vessel]

I thought kiowa was the biggest stretch tbh

ef2000 I have good arguments for

[blissful belfry]

Tbf with how the game is now the Kiowa would just be a worse form of the 94

[worldly stag]

Kiowa's featureset is already covered by the AH-94.

[fringe karma]

yeah the new ui thing

[brazen vessel]

more than that!

[worldly stag]

Save utility, but that could be done by the UH-60.

[worldly stag]

New UI?

[blissful belfry]

The Kiowas scouting and long loiter times don't add anything particularly usable in vtol lmao

As much as I'd love to see one

[lone lichen]

For a game named VTOL VR
The VTOL flight models are suffering

[neon scroll]

the Arma Reforger experience is good - join a server and all the mods get downloaded automatically, no need to restart the game either

[brazen vessel]

How many more years do you think people want to wait for things that they want?
I find it extremely rare to impossible that anyone has been watching VTOL development for 8 years, but is waiting till baha releases a reskinned fa26b to buy the game

resources plane mod creators get
Complete full access to the game's internals?

weird sentiment around modding being some weird fucking evi lthing
Baha fully allows modding and mod creators can do practically anything to the game

[worldly stag]

F-111 would work well as a strike bomber for guided and unguided munitions. Toss in a proper ground attack radar mode for fixed wing on it, and destructible runways/Anti-runway munitions would be sufficient. It'd be a suitable compromise regarding the demand for a proper bomber.

[neon scroll]

can we talk about modding and not about mods in this thread?

[blissful belfry]

Reforegers issue just comes from the fact that it's still technically just a tech demo for Arma 4 and the modders are kinda iffy on moving over lol

[lone lichen]

You yourself have been pretty much like
"Why do people want new planes that add nothing to the game in my opinion"
People just want different planes, because they like flying just something different

Also the game is old, has a wide variety of aircraft but you can only play with around half of the planes in the game.
No flying OPFOR for you. :/

[fringe karma]

part of the issue with new vtol aircraft is that they all share the same "software". I.E they all mostly have the same MFD pages. The 42, 26, 94, and 55 are all on the 4th gen OS while the 45 and 24 are on the 5th gen OS. So a new fighter aircraft with a different OS/design philosophy with its UI could be interesting. It's why a eurofighter or even a redfor aircraft could be interesting cause their design philosophies on how they handle UI are pretty different compared to the stuff already in vtol

[blissful belfry]

I want new flavors of ew and multirole lol

[worldly stag]

I agree.

[blissful belfry]

I love the 24 it's my favorite and probably always will be but I would love to see something like the grippens ew kit

[brazen vessel]

has a wide variety of aircraft
AI aircraft are not player aircraft, its not like baha can press the "make playable" button, making one of those aircraft a playable one is the exact same amount of work as making an aircraft from scratch

People just want different planes, because they like flying just something different
I understand that, I don't understand when you're presented these choices:

A) New aircraft with new mechanics and detailed gameplay that dramatically changes the game
B) New aircraft (it's a reskinned fa26b)

People would pick B and say baha's idiotic for picking A

[lone lichen]

Gimme the knock-off migs/sukhois I've been fighting as playable

[brazen vessel]

That is to say, both options give you 'new aircraft', one option gives you 'new aircraft and a bunch more'

[blissful belfry]

Honestly if baha did both it would probably net the best results

[lone lichen]

Yeah, because people don't necessarily care for a new DLC aircraft that has these new mechanics (when not all of them get transferred to the people who own the base game).

People would rather spend less money on a DLC aircraft that is a "reskin" then double the price for a plane that took a long time to get into the game.

It's drastically shorter from what I've read/seen here to implement a "reskinned" plane, then to do something like the EF-24G every time.

A mix of both is yeah the best.

I geniuely fucking want the OPFOR aircraft playable, release'em individually or in a bundle pack and I'd pay good money for them.

[blissful belfry]

Here new aircraft with new features occasionally dropping here new aircraft with not new features but a different flight model and different cockpit

[lone lichen]

There hasn't been a new aicraft in well over a year now, people do want something.

[worldly stag]

I concur, we can have both, we don't need to adopt one or the other.

[fringe karma]

May I introduce you to the hit VTOL VR mod, the F-16C?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3346173029&tscn=1737404034

[lone lichen]

I'd have to convince @fringe flower to run it :/

I do love my F-16s though

[fringe karma]

@fringe flower are you stupid or somethin?

[fringe flower]

I'd need to test out how to get it all working, haven't tried any Vtol VR mods before.

just haven't had the time yet.

[fringe karma]

it's hella easy!

[lone lichen]

Having good having good support for identifying/hosting modded lobbies would be nice.
A modded label, etc, the things that have been talked about would be great.

[brazen vessel]

people don't necessarily care
And people (me) don't necessarily care jsut for a reskined aircraft...? I agree not everyone cares about new features, but clearly a lot of people do

People would rather spend less money
I do not find the argument of "But I could save 6$!" to hold any weight or merit

It's drastically shorter
I would not say drastically, shorter? Yes, however ultimately the benefit is worth a longer dev cycle, especialyl when baha can afford it

[blissful belfry]

Literally just downloaded the client subscribe

[fringe flower]

Been meaning to test it though.

[blissful belfry]

Your done

It's all on steam

[fringe flower]

ah so its easy.

[fringe karma]

real af

[lone lichen]

Bro the DLCs for this game, compared to what they add, to the base price of the game is damn fucking high

[fringe flower]

Listen I've gotten used to having to do so much random bullshit to get mods working, Eg. Skyrim, XCOM, etc.

[blissful belfry]

Understandable

[brazen vessel]

Fundementally I disagree that 12$ is a lot of money lmao

[fringe karma]

yup

[brazen vessel]

Especially given the hundreds of hours of gameplay iv gotten out of each of them

[fringe karma]

just download the steam modloader and subscribe to the workshop item

[lone lichen]

Relative to the base game price

11 bucks out of 10, is 1/3rd

[blissful belfry]

I have a feeling the "care" by alot of people really only comes from the repetitiveness of the requests and the request guidelines

[brazen vessel]

Consider: You paid 30$ for 3 aircrarft, so each AC was valued at 10$

[fringe flower]

yeah I already have the mod loader installed n whatnot.

I just haven't tested it.

[brazen vessel]

yep for 3 aircraft, so it works out almost exactly

Hell if you count inflation they're undervalued

[lone lichen]

Paid 30 bucks for the game.
I've now been DCS's for additional aircraft that aren't priced evenly.

If say playable ASFs were 5-6 bucks like the T-55 that's fair. The model already exists, and you already have some of the work done for them. If each ASF was 11-ish bucks like the AH-94 or EF-24G that'd be a bit too high IMO

[brazen vessel]

Anyway i gtg to the store

[worldly stag]

The problem is the majority of people play VTOL with the intent to do so in multiplayer, and as has been debated to death, modded sessions are hidden from the rest of the multiplayer environment. This idea that allowing people to easily play multiplayer modded sessions with others would cause damage to the community is absurd. Getting a group together for it is easier said than done, when some people, including yours truly, don't have any such groups to play with.

[blissful belfry]

Clearly there's demand and enough of it for it to be profitable for another "reskinned fa26" (btw that argument sucks ass if you look at everything in the game aside from mabye the 45 and 94 the 26 can do it and just as well more then likely)

[brazen vessel]

The model already exists, and you already have some of the work done for them
This is demonstrably wrong

[blissful belfry]

It's multirole

[lone lichen]

You can see them.
They have a model made.
You'd probably have to adjust it a bit.

[blissful belfry]

The 26 came from one of those

[worldly stag]

Even more so, when I prefer jumping into a lobby to play. I can do the same exact thing in GMod, in many other games. It takes longer yes, but I will gladly sit there and wait to download them.

[blissful belfry]

26a was a ai drone originally

[lone lichen]

For real!

[fringe karma]

Yeah I think if the modloader just added the list of mods to the lobby meta data, that way vanilla vtol can display what mods are loaded/required, would go a long way

[worldly stag]

I was going to suggest something like that originally, actually.

[lone lichen]

This would be amazing.

Like it's the reason why I don't run mods in VTOl

[brazen vessel]

this is false

[lone lichen]

It's hard enough to get players at fucking midnight CST for VTOL VR

Unless Roh is testing one of his missions, then I go gladly hop into one of those.

[blissful belfry]

#1015729794320699404 message

Unless neo is lying his ass off

🤷‍♂️

[fringe karma]

You would still have to close vtol to open it through the modloader though which is a bummer. Although a solution could be for the modloader to only force your game to the "modded" state if you have any actual mods loaded. So you can always boot up the modloader with no mods (or even approved client-side mods) and still join vanilla lobbies. Deep rock galactic does this really well

[blissful belfry]

I just think the hostility and lack of willingness to add variety to the roles and support for things like modding to be baked in isn't healthy in the long run

That'd all

[lone lichen]

A implemented into the game mod loader like A3, or GMOD would be amazing

[worldly stag]

If memory serves, Unity does allow reloading assets during runtime.

Or reinitializing, rather.

Lemme try something in Nebulous rq..

[fringe karma]

idk about implemented into the game. That do be a hassle. But it's totally possible to add more synergy between the steam modloader and vanilla vtol

[fringe karma]

You can't unload dlls. Which is what pretty much all the mods use to do their thang

[worldly stag]

😬

Well shit..

Maybe an auto-connect on start feature?

[fringe karma]

But tbh if you're running modded and you need to unload some stuff real quick, I don't think people mind restarting their game over that

[fringe karma]

wdym

[worldly stag]

Like, you join a session, download the mods, mod loader requests restart, and a file that can be read on start can prompt the user if they want to connect to that server directly instead of having to go through the menus.

File's left after completing the download and is deleted on clean exit from the game.

[neon scroll]

Yeah this would definitely increase the use of mods

And then more people would make more mods

[fringe karma]

have you used the new modloader yet?

[worldly stag]

I have not, actually. I've been meaning to try it, admittedly.

[brazen vessel]

Neo is correct, the 26a is an AI aircraft that existed before the 26b, however the models are very different, they may have been the same at one point but the amount of work put into the 26b (especially the cockpit) means its effectively the same level of effort as from scratch

Really the only think the AI models would 'save' you is the fact that you have a concept ready

[blissful belfry]

Ah I think you misunderstood what I was getting at then I wasn't saying use the ai models but moreover getting at the process of taking one and adapting it isn't new as a concept to baha

[heady ice]

This 100% If someone gives us a model at work to turn into a hero asset, we may as well restart it from scratch

The AI models are good for concept and thats about it

[half flicker]

Godly list

[worldly stag]

They're probably low-LOD and have ass UVs anyways.

Which.. to be honest, if you're making simple units that the player won't see in detail for long anyways, that's not neccessarily a bad thing.

[heady ice]

Yeah it serves the purpose of an AI fighter fine

Completely different if it becomes a player aircraft

[silent carbon]

We already have the flight models and some of the weapons modeled in as well (for ai), baha would just need to translate it for player use

Sounds pretty dumb but if modders can make some damn good aircraft, what’s stopping baha?

I get it, WIP QOL features, but I think also the community is stubborn like you mentioned earlier.

[heady ice]

Time

[silent carbon]

I agree, although why can’t baha just do things such as team up with modders?

[heady ice]

Baha could churn out random planes but he's spending his time on QOL, updates to the editor, bug fixes

[silent carbon]

What’s so random about a player ASF-58 or ASF-33?

[blissful belfry]

Read uo

Please

[heady ice]

Idk he works alone, and doesn't want to be a manager

[silent carbon]

up you mean?

[blissful belfry]

Yes

🫃

[silent carbon]

I’m gonna be honest, I didn’t read much and just skimmed through and already forgot, what’s your stance on Baha developing new jets though?

Time and resources yes, but what else can be expected from a single dev

It’s kind of a lose lose really

[blissful belfry]

I think mainly focusing on things that add new and exclusive resources rather then adding variety to the already existing types of jets rather then just straight up doing both adding new and effectively redundant aircraft is extremely bad for the game and the thought process with people asking for new multirole aircraft and or different versions of already dedicated role aircraft just being "oh it's a worse fa26b so no" is an extremely short sighted view that leads to less variety in the airframes and equipment because effectively everything in the game aside from the 94 and 45 are just worse fa26s with that logic

I think aircraft shouldn't be added based on new features rather what's fun or not

[silent carbon]

Like stuff to mess around with?

[blissful belfry]

Basically add more aircraft even if it's redundant I want fun and verity

[blissful belfry]

Yes

[silent carbon]

I mean a ASF-58 would be real fun, bitching Rita, thrust vectoring (cool air show maneuver), and it would have a F-45 similar tablet

I’ve said that a lot though, I like the concept of it haha

Just TVC aircraft or special goofy aircraft

[blissful belfry]

I would love a tvc mirage with European or Russian missles and a different os rather then just the generic bd os we have on the aircraft now

[silent carbon]

Oh kind of like how opfor aircraft are

Yeah that would be cool, just any foreign nation aircraft that are edited

Well, back to vtol again

[fringe karma]

the ai flight models use a relatively universal simplified flight model

so you would have to redo that too

[fringe karma]

multiple reasons

[fringe karma]

#1330922387335548979 message

tldr it can boring dev-wise to make 26 clones

[blissful belfry]

Why does everything have to be a 26 clone why can't it just be alternatives with different unique qualities the 26 is so overtuned that literally everything is just a clone or a worse equivalent to it it shouldn't be that way lmao

[silent carbon]

Why would we want clones?

Why not the base of a OPFOR aircraft or just a new unique one?

[fringe karma]

doesn't change the fact that it's still relatively boring to dev :P

[heady ice]

Unless you do something redundant like remake the MFD OS or something

Or make the RWR impossible to use

[silent carbon]

Eh, debatable, but how does that relate to bahas development? IMO if I spent months working on something that benefited others and they liked it, I’d be happy.

[fringe karma]

#1330922387335548979 message

If something is boring to dev you're less likely to do it

[silent carbon]

Did baha ever state it was boring though?

[fringe karma]

nah but from personal experience it is hella boring

[silent carbon]

Same here, but the modding community can only buy baha so much time that is

[fringe karma]

modding community is probably the only chance for people to get redfor aircraft or aircraft based on irl stuff

[brazen vessel]

IMO if I spent months working on something that benefited others
People are driven by different things, I personally barely care about other people using my things

[heady ice]

Baha already said no to making something like the f16 vanilla in that Q&A iirc

[silent carbon]

Yeah but the modding communities been hit hard after Yoda left

Not super hard but the jank aircraft series were pretty decent

[fringe karma]

People will download the mods, tucker themselves out after a few hours of what's essentially the same gameplay loop as the 26, then wait for the next new thing

[fringe karma]

they were awful

[full tinsel]

No

[silent carbon]

The solo was fine for the 27, but the models didn’t have too much thought put in

He kind of ruined the 27 with the texturing and stuff, made it so that things clipped

[fringe karma]

Everytime I had a lull in motivation while making the F-16 mod I would load up a random custom aircraft mod to remember what I was fighting for

[silent carbon]

They weren’t that bad, sure multiplayer compatibility wasn’t the best and neither was textures but some things like the flight model, missiles and mechanics were done well

That being, the only good one being the SU27

[brazen vessel]

the flight model
The FMs for the ones I tried were real jank/bad

[silent carbon]

Yeah, yoda tended to just make more jets instead of refining a few

[brazen vessel]

Tis a great example for why baha shouldn't just pump out 10 reskinned fa26bs, but instead develop new unique aircraft with new features and mechanics

[silent carbon]

Either way I’m hoping C-137 and like minded people can turn the modding community around.

[silent carbon]

Yeah, but then again we have only such a limited view of what baha does and thinks

[brazen vessel]

Im not sure how that's relevent here

[silent carbon]

It’s relevant due to C-137 stating earlier in the forum that you’re less likely to do something you don’t like.

If baha doesn’t like making new aircraft, then he would be less likely to do it, or not, which is why it affects how we speculate what will be developed

Either way any in game improvement is good, even if it’s just a tiny QOL feature or such similar

[brazen vessel]

Oh I mean its pretty clear baha likes making new features/mechanics lol

Hence the whole him saying that's what he'll do

[silent carbon]

IRCM pods 🙏🏻

I wish they’d be in the game, but would likely require missile buffs

Or flaring patterns

[reef moat]

Yet you advertise your projects?

[silent carbon]

?

[brazen vessel]

I say barely because I do get some satisfcation from people using them, but consider that of my over 350 projects you know about two of them

[silent carbon]

Also chase

What’s that you’re working on?

sneaky

[brazen vessel]

Rn? A project tangentially related to HC that'll probably never see the light of day

[silent carbon]

What is HC?

And what’s the VTOLLiveViewer

[brazen vessel]

Headless Client, the replay tool that's mainly used on my server

VTOLLiveViewer is HC

[silent carbon]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh

I knew that name sounded familiar

[reef moat]

yeah, your contradicting yourself when you say "you barely care", and then say "you get satisfaction". Which one is it? You cannot have it both ways.

[silent carbon]

What’s the need for arguing?

[brazen vessel]

What? Those are synonyms

[silent carbon]

Certain things apply to certain scenarios

"Barely care"

[brazen vessel]

98% of my motivation is because I dervive fun from the programming itself, 2% is from other people using them

As in barely but does exist

[silent carbon]

no need to argue hackit

[silent carbon]

I just get personal satisfaction haha

[reef moat]

I'm clarifying

[brazen vessel]

Iv been programming for 13 years but I have single digit number of public projects

[silent carbon]

I get it haha, I work 4 hours on animating, another 6 on rendering just to find out something was invisible in the render

plus they’re pretty bad and not aligned too well

[true tartan]

Tf you on, it’s cheap as hell

[uncut shore]

i agree on the dlcs are costly, think about how much better it would be if each of them were in a time limited battle pass along with like 100 cosmetics and all of them are sprays that you only see in the briefing room. $10 of course, with a season pass that you can buy and still miss out on everything.

[supple palm]

I think we should also collab with snoop dog so we can hit fat ones while bombing people

[hollow trellis]

I wish this post wasnt deleted so I could upvote it

[supple palm]

Ngl I’ve been hate reading this for a couple mins lmao

Ts like a dumbass novel fr

[hollow trellis]

I haven't really been reading what people been saying

[hollow trellis]

Welcome to this server

[supple palm]

A lot of arguing

[supple palm]

Yeah I’m aware lmao, Tbf people get mad over things they passionate abt ig

[hollow trellis]

But ARMA and DCS do this and it works well. Plus more mods get attention and server hosts can make their own mods for the server

[supple palm]

Idk man, i feel like they speak for baha like he dead and carrying out his will and testiment

[hollow trellis]

💀

[supple palm]

All good tho, I’m lowk dumb as hell so don’t ask me for reasons why or why not

[hollow trellis]

Some people treat him like the gospel it feels like (even tho baha the goat fr)

[supple palm]

Yeah idk man

I just feel like the glaze is a lil thick rn

Can’t say I blame them, but I feel like people get hated on so hard for saying something that doesent align with the general views on things

[deep bronze]

Well, in terms of decisions for this game, it kinda is like that. You can argue and try to persuade baha, but ultimately it is his game and he can update it however he wants to. So trying to appease or build off of what he said is a good way to suggest stuff that may actually be considered

[hollow trellis]

Yeah I agree to a point

[supple palm]

Absolutely, bahas good I just think the community lays the glaze on a little thick

[hollow trellis]

It is ultimately up to baha on what gets into the game, but I don't think people shouldn't suggest it just because he's said things in contrary like "new plane needs new additions"

He has made it very clear no 1:1 planes tho

[supple palm]

That’s what is modding for and I’m okay with that

[hollow trellis]

Yeah

[supple palm]

Im gonna say it, and I know it’s not related too much but

[hollow trellis]

Tags need to be used more in this channel tho

[supple palm]

I’m a av-42 hater

[hollow trellis]

Same

[deep bronze]

Definitely people can suggest things to the contary of baha, but imo if so, there needs to be added argumentation to make it actually worth suggesting (as in there has to be something that has a chance of changing baha's mind)

[supple palm]

I feel like everyone thinks it’s a ton of different aircraft

[hollow trellis]

Well I don't hate it but it feels so bad to fly

[supple palm]

The “then play x” argument annoys me to no end

[hollow trellis]

100%

[supple palm]

I’m getting off topic I gotta go, thanks for talking :)

[supple palm]

Absolutely, can’t just be “f-15, because it’s cool and it flys around”

[hollow trellis]

Like the aircraft posts that have the one sentance body paragraphs aren't gonna get good traction, thats why I think this channel needs to be moderated better

[hollow trellis]

https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1341974203649491025 💀

26B

[supple palm]

PLEASE REMODEL THE PLANE AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[hollow trellis]

lol talk to joe about that

[supple palm]

It’s been rejected, but honestly the 26 looks so big and ugly

I’m not trying to be a hater, all of bahas work on the other aircraft look fine

It’s just super cartoonish compared to the more detailed and sleek aircraft like the 24, and 45