RF-4 Phantom Aircraft (Recon)

[quick epoch]

Aside from many personal beliefs about the F4 and its abilities, The Phantom was exceptionally well in reconnaissance! There are many articles out there that state this. This aircraft also had both air and ground radar. The IRL Radar it utilized was the "Westinghouse AN/APQ-120 Fire Control Radar." It did air and ground accordingly... So why should an F4-Phantom-like aircraft be a good addition to this game? Originally, this airframe was a fighter bomber but also a carrier-based long-range interceptor! This means it's already starting to align in the VTOLVR realm. Due to its powerful twin engines, it is capable of holding more munitions than the more superior and modernized F/A-18, despite being less maneuverable. So again, why should this be added? With a bit of imagination, the "Phantom" can be modeled into the VTOLVR realm and this aircraft can fulfill close to medium-quarter ranged intelligence with its unique radar; the more situational awareness a pilot has, the better odds they face in winning a battle. In addition to this, new tech can be added while keeping this beloved airframe analog instead of the EF24G with modernized sensors/cockpits from the F-14.

With everything mentioned, just because this aircraft has a unique radar, what actual "ability" can it provide? Well with a bit of thought, it could have loitering munitions such as the decoys of the EF24G but instead of its unique ability in jamming, it can provide RWR, minimal GRD Radar detection, and have an on-board camera to assist in buddy lazing. I will call this loitering munition an ADM-906

Ability: Unique Air/Ground Radar providing more SA to other pilots in the skies with a Weapons Officer
-Capable of holding more submunitions than any other aircraft in-game with a relatively decent TWR
-Ability to deploy ADM-906's (see reference above)

Cons: Slower, less agile airframe
-Hot target for Fox 2's, and it's IRL RCS for Fox 3's
-Expensive due to its on-board cameras/sensors

Also unlike the AH-94, perhaps this new ground radar technology could detect what ground target is being detected? (For reference, the AH-94's GRND RDR only shows a tank icon for detection, and not any specific icons for any ground vehicle, an APC can detect as a tank icon)

[crisp carbon]

Why don't you just say RF-4 ?

[quick epoch]

Ohhh yeah, I'll update that

R-F4 Phantom Type-Recon

[crisp carbon]

uhm

[quick epoch]

wait lol

RF-4 Phantom Aircraft (Recon)

[crisp carbon]

I feel like a Recce pod like TARPS would suffice

[quick epoch]

I figured a GPS/NAV-guided laser submunition would be effective for it so it could fly and gather intel/laze targets in a heated zone without jeopardizing its own aircraft (but it will come with a hefty price tag)

of course, it should have powerful cameras as well, probably the same as the EF24/45 due to in-game render distances

I can already see missions unique to this aircaft, like finding missile silos

[crisp carbon]

so a drone

https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1243628969945989221

[quick epoch]

or maybe the pilot has analog type of equipment but the WO has modernized control?

no not a drone

[crisp carbon]

how isn't it a drone ?

[quick epoch]

actually, that isnt far off from what I was stating

on-board ground radar, TGP with laser, RWR receiver

[crisp carbon]

on the drone ?

[quick epoch]

on a ADM-like missile

a drone would not suffice \

[crisp carbon]

right

[quick epoch]

it has an on-board radar, the electricity use on it will be insane

[crisp carbon]

the MALD is technicly a drone

remote controlled aircraft

[quick epoch]

im not talking a small drone, its going to be a big missile

its not exactly remote controlled tho, just GPS/NAV guided

[crisp carbon]

okay i see

[quick epoch]

with a hefty price tag due to its sensors

like probably 50k in game, and could only carry 2

Upvoting this post too

[crisp carbon]

So it sounds to me like you're mostly interested in a "air launched recce drone" which i don't think requires a new plane

[quick epoch]

not necessarily, i just like the airframe and its ability for SA, I made a post about the C130 having awacs as well. I love intel, I always will. being able to see the NAV and seeing a plane come and being able to flank is my beloved strat in BVR.

Secondly, it holds a boat-load of munitions, if you want a fighter bomber, this surpasses the F-26

It can also be an interceptor, but the F-26 would be better for this role, but it could

Again, with the intel. No other aircraft (aside from the AH94) has ground radar capability. The "drone" or missile I've mentioned, is just a better tool to gain with this intel, however, I'm sure I could think of better gadgets to gathering intel

OH MY GOD, i looked up some stuff on what intel people are capable of gathering.. what if this RF-4 was capable of searching hostile radio frequencies and could hear the opposing team?

[crisp carbon]

https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1245504311618703493 i found this old post about drones like that

So i agree that ISR is super fun

[quick epoch]

that posts has 2 MALDS that are for A2G and A2A, not actual intel gathering though

[crisp carbon]

oh yeah true

[quick epoch]

would it be cool? Absolutely, but that's more high-techy and would be better fit for the 24

its basically a longer ranged AGM-188

i do like the ability to hear frequencies from the opposing team tho...

[crisp carbon]

So i think a recce drone is a great idea, and more ISR stuff in general, but i'd say it's more suited to a heavier aircraft

DC-130 style

[quick epoch]

the F4 is a heavy aircraft tho... like compared to any aircraft in game, this thing is a floating tank

and can somewhat match speeds with the f24.. unloaded

unfortunately i dont think baha would ever implement the C130 style aircraft from my previous post since its not carrier capable :(

but honestly i could live without the upper hand in logistics or awacs

[crisp carbon]

imagine a mix of DC-130, E-8 JSTARS and E-3

in a E-2/C-2 form factor

[quick epoch]

holy fawk, thats what an ADM looks like from a person?

[crisp carbon]

the MALD in game is very small

[quick epoch]

holy snot

bro thats almost the size of x-43

well maybe the x-43 was bigger but not by much

gahdamn

thats literally a baby plane flown by a big boy plane

now ik why the USAF has a huge budget 💀

[crisp carbon]

D-21

[quick epoch]

YOOOO

[crisp carbon]

actual MAch 3 photo recce drone

[rain sparrow]

So less me get this straight.. you want a high speed interceptor.. with an air to air and air to ground radar.. that has decoys.. and a camera?

[quick epoch]

not decoys, their apparantly MALDs

[rain sparrow]

MALDs are decoys

Miniature Air Launched Decoy

🗿

[quick epoch]

its intended use isn't a decoy then, it's for intel gathering

[rain sparrow]

So a loitering drone?

[quick epoch]

It's IRL radar wasn't good, short ranged

basically

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I mean

[quick epoch]

i stated what it has above

well, its IRL was good for its time

[rain sparrow]

If it operates like a MALD but instead of telling radars to look at it it has DAS to just find every target near it that’d be cool

[quick epoch]

nothing special in todays standards, the EF24G and probably the 26 will have a longer ranged radar than the RF4, BUT, has GRND RDR capability

[rain sparrow]

Though I disagree on the “high twr with a lot of weapons” thing

[quick epoch]

i mean if you look into its stats... thats what it was

it was a fantastic aircraft for its time, it did have a good TWR

[rain sparrow]

It kind of didn’t have a good TWR

it’s afterburners did

[quick epoch]

unfortunately, it had trash maneuverability, leading the US into making the F-16, non-twin engine, more maneuverable, lower speed

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No

[quick epoch]

that's fair, it was a gas guzzler

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The F16 was not made because of the F4

The F14 was made because of the F4

Then the F15 and F18

then the F16

and then the F22 to replace the F15

and F35 to replace all of them

[quick epoch]

im pretty sure they had intentions of the f-16 then because they wanted to get away from twin-engines for better manueverability

1 less engine, huge weight reduction

[rain sparrow]

the F14 was made way before the F16 my guy

🗿

the F14 is from the 70s

early 70s

[quick epoch]

The F14 wasnt used over vietnam tho, the F4 was

in*

in vietnam

[rain sparrow]

Pretty sure it was used right as it ended

With VF-1

[quick epoch]

regardless, we both know the pro's and con's to the F4, and why it would be a realistic implementation to the game because of it's drawbacks, but it was well in A2A, but very good in A2G

but overall, I want it for intel gathering

[rain sparrow]

I mean

The F45 is the absolute best at that because of DAS

[quick epoch]

If no one wants my C130-styled AWACS, I will get it with the F4 AIR/GRND RDR

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And sensor fusion

And stealth

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Also Baha won’t add REAL aircraft to the game

So you gotta mix it up

[quick epoch]

oh i know that FS

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Can’t just be an F4

[quick epoch]

but all aircraft are based off something

the T-55 is the T-50 Trainer

The F-26 is obviously the FA18

The F45 is the F35

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🤷

[quick epoch]

The 24 is the 14

[crisp carbon]

the F-14 was present during the fall of Saigon

it saw vietnam

[rain sparrow]

^

[quick epoch]

the F4 can be like an RF-6 but have a mix of easier design for VTOLVR sake

it saw vietnam, but was not in it

i just read about it, it did patrols and whatnot

[rain sparrow]

IT LITERALLY WAS

😭

[quick epoch]

but did not directly face nearly as much as the F4's

"The F-14 was designed incorporating air combat experience against MiG fighters during the Vietnam War1. However, the F-14 did not see combat in Vietnam, and only flew air patrol missions in the last days of the war without engaging in combat23. The F-14 first flew on 21 December 1970 and made its first deployment in 1974 with the U.S. Navy aboard USS Enterprise (CVN-65), replacing the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II1."

[rain sparrow]

Just because it came late to the party does not mean it wasn’t there.

[quick epoch]

RIP f4 🙏

but fr, it could be integrated into VTOLVR rather well, and it's a pretty iconic craft next to the F14 (the f14 was pretty sexy ngl)

actually, how about this, to keep the "analog" style theme, the MFD could also be touch screen, kind of like a vehicle with integrated Car-Play, it could do both, resulting in a larger screen

I do believe however the WO should have something alike the EWO seat with its advanced display

[crisp carbon]

back seater would be Recon systems officer

RSO

i think

[quick epoch]

IRL it was RIO, but I like RSO better

[crisp carbon]

air force was WSO, navy was RIO, RF-4 was RSO

[quick epoch]

also bro just described the EF24 without the ground rdr tbh

[crisp carbon]

F-4G was EWO

depends on the mission

[quick epoch]

ehhh, I don't think there would be jammer pods and MALDs

these MALDs are bigger than i thought

[rain sparrow]

Yes because that’s what you were asking for it seemed

[quick epoch]

well you know the F4 was decent with its afterburners... just not for a long time but for a good time 😄

[rain sparrow]

I simply just don’t see why we should have a reconnaissance plane when those stopped being used in favour of satellite imagery

:/

and we have a stealth fighter than has DAS

[quick epoch]

because there isnt satellites in game

although i do agree

DONT MAKE ME MAKE A SATELLITE POST

[rain sparrow]

then how do we get our waypoints directly on the objectives then…?

how do we have GPS…?

how do we have the SATNAV map…?

[quick epoch]

yk what I mean

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That automatically updates with enemy locations and GPS coordinates…

That shows BRA info..

🗿

[quick epoch]

fun fact, GPS doesnt work with a happy little camera following your phone or any gps device 24/7

theres 3 GPS sats that coordinate to your location

[rain sparrow]

We do have satellites in game is my point

[quick epoch]

there are satellites IRL with geostationary orbiting tho

[crisp carbon]

usually 4

[rain sparrow]

Ok

That’s not my point

[quick epoch]

but do we have this tho?

no

[rain sparrow]

My point is we have satellite imagery already

since the in game map is automatically updated with enemy locations

[crisp carbon]

emissary is right, recce planes have been mostly replaced by SATs and Drones

[quick epoch]

okay, use ur satellite imaging for finding ground targets

[rain sparrow]

I’d love to

Because I already fucking do

💀

[quick epoch]

cap

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oh wow so the big orange square isn’t an enemy on my map!?

[quick epoch]

blud does not have a geostationary sattelite

no, its a friendly :D

GPS has existed for a very, very long time

[rain sparrow]

I wouldn’t say that

Planes have barely been around for 100 or so years

A “very very long time” to me is for example guns

Which have been around for at minimum 200 years :)

[quick epoch]

im talking about the use of planes

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GPS has only been around the past 50 or so years or less

[quick epoch]

the SR71 was retired due to its actual gathering intel because of it

i believe it has been the 50's or early 60's

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the SR71 was retired because of SATs

[quick epoch]

thats more than 3x of my life

to me, its been around for a very long time, and easily accessible

yes

but this game isnt future or past or present centered considering we are still using the F-26 as a modern fighter

[rain sparrow]

So why would we want a recon plane in the future when the last one was literally retired because of the SATs

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oh so we dont use 4.5 gens?

💀

[quick epoch]

i think you're missing the point of recon plane

the ability is for recon

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This game is literally set in the near future

[quick epoch]

in that case, why are there AWACS?

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Why do we have awacs now?

[quick epoch]

we can just see from satellites where all aircaft are

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☠️

[quick epoch]

or tanks

or personnel

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This has to be bait

[quick epoch]

this is an overstatement to meet your standards of "recon"

you can't

I'm not saying "recon plane" as in finding an enemy base recon, I'm saying recon as in finding hostile craft

specifically more ground than air since all aircaft aside from the 42 has radar

[rain sparrow]

Me when my plane’s sensor fusion or radar can tell me where the enemy plane is

Or the fucking AI awacs.. or the radars my team has..

[quick epoch]

ground craft

as i literally just stated

[rain sparrow]

Craft usually means aircraft

you mean vics

🗿

[quick epoch]

more ground than air due to everyone having radar

craft as in.. anything on the ground

or even sea

also notice how i mentioned craft as in general, both air and ground

the point of the post is to have a JET aircraft spot, laze/eliminate ground targets more efficiently, while still being able to gather better intel on ground forces, as well as being able to carry the munitions needed to eliminate the ground targets... OR can be an interceptor depending on the munitions brought to the missions

this "recon" plane is not for base imaging. That is NOT what I'm saying at all. It is literally orienting off it's ability for better detecting and eliminating ground targets, while being able to hold a laze or spot enemy targets from afar. Also because this isn't a bomber, it's just as capable of entering contested air zones

[rain sparrow]

So.. like an F45..?

[quick epoch]

F-45 lacks pylons, but succeeds in stealth

[rain sparrow]

The 45 just has to have LOS within 5nm to spot things

[rain sparrow]

24 air to ground missiles say otherwise

💀

It can carry 12 missiles on the wings and 12 more internally

[quick epoch]

correct, because... duh duh duh... its meant for SEAD! all of its A2G weapons are meant for anti radiation, or GPS guideds

[rain sparrow]

AND WITH 2 AMRAAMS

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they’re

Not

Anti rad

[quick epoch]

it has some laser guided

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Or gps guided

They are laser/optical

💀

[quick epoch]

for the 24??

what are you talking ab lmao

[rain sparrow]

F45 has 24 missiles

💀

[quick epoch]

here

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.

[quick epoch]

24 atg missiles as in F24 or 24 missiles

ohh, yeah

[rain sparrow]

24 MISSILES

[quick epoch]

but it does it have A2G radar

i thought u were talking ab the f24

my b

[rain sparrow]

It has DAS which picks up anything within LOS of 5 miles

In any direction

[quick epoch]

but guess what.. this aircraft will have more :D

and.. ground.. radar.. and honestly, could probably have DAS as well

[rain sparrow]

So it’d just be an F45+EF24 without stealth or jamming?

💀

[quick epoch]

The RF-4 will succeed in being a Fighter-bomber or interceptor

If that's what you choose to believe, sure

[rain sparrow]

Literally what the mischief and ghost do but cool

[quick epoch]

It's succeeds in doing so by having an ability for reconning with it's MALD and cams

[rain sparrow]

So it also has decoys?

🤨

[quick epoch]

mischief does not exceed in the bombing aspect due to low amount of munitions unlike the 26

[rain sparrow]

What

It can carry 22 bombs my guy

💀

And still have 4 missiles

It has more bombs than the ghost and tyro

[quick epoch]

okay... try to wipe an airfield + a city with 22 bombs

[rain sparrow]

💀

[quick epoch]

do it

[rain sparrow]

The mischief can carry 22 GPS guided or unguided bombs

[quick epoch]

okay... do it

[rain sparrow]

I do not think that’s an issue.

But whatever floats your boat bud

[quick epoch]

the unique ability for the f45 is its capable of stealth, the f24 has jamming, and the RF4 will have recon/intel/ground capacity

but guess what EVERY aircraft can do ground, air, or sea

but should it?? NO!

[rain sparrow]

Mfw people cope about multirole

😭😭

[quick epoch]

multirole is not the issue, the 26 is meant for multirole tho

why would u waste an airframe for jamming and not jam with it? 💀

[rain sparrow]

Can still be multirole whilst jamming

🗿

[crisp carbon]

i prefer the 24 over the 26 for AG, even without jammers

[quick epoch]

i do agree yes

[crisp carbon]

simply because of HOTAS TGP zoom

[quick epoch]

i typically carry 8 gbu 39's, 2 Aim 120's, 188's, and 2 jammers

see? Multirole!! yayy!!

[rain sparrow]

I myself carry; whatever the mission needs

🗿

[quick epoch]

okay.. the mission is to destroy multiple heavily contested airfields and congested city's

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Flexibility is more important than carrying what you’re used to

[quick epoch]

i have multiple loadouts...

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Okay?

[quick epoch]

so idk what that statement means

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I get given a loadout and I use it 👍

[quick epoch]

answer this

what airframe would you bring

[rain sparrow]

Drop bombs on the airfield, rtb, rearm, go back to the city, bomb it, if needed rtb and rearm again

[quick epoch]

or what would you prefer to bring... the 24 would be well for SEAD/DEAD, right?

[rain sparrow]

Mischief

[quick epoch]

very good yay u got it

24 is great for missile prevention and SEAD/DEAD

[rain sparrow]

You used the one plane I fly

As an example

???

😭

[quick epoch]

now, u have multiple scattered tanks, MANPADS, APC's, etc

i dont knock the 24, its great, i love it too

[rain sparrow]

Still gonna use the mischief

[quick epoch]

ok

i give up

ur not even trying to be a good pilot

[rain sparrow]

mfw people give me the option to use the plane I fly the most:

🗿

[quick epoch]

just because u can doesnt mean u should

why make 15 bombing trips

[rain sparrow]

my brother in christ I have spent more time in the mischief than I have in any other aircraft

I think it’ll be fine.

[quick epoch]

thats a waste of logistics

[rain sparrow]

22 x 15?

[quick epoch]

again, just because you can, doesnt mean you should

MULTIPLE, airfields and cities

[rain sparrow]

So there’s 330 tanks?

🤨

[quick epoch]

honestly, probably

Full Dynamic Liberation

[rain sparrow]

💀

[quick epoch]

heavily contested area

would you like the ability to send a camera up in the sky to assist scanning targets and laze so you can drop guided bombs for you? Or perhaps fire and forgets like the F-45 but waste 10k per missile

[rain sparrow]

Or lase my own bombs

💀

[quick epoch]

hell, even the f4 will have them

you could

every aircraft could

[rain sparrow]

it’s not exactly difficult to lase your own bomb buddy

🗿

[quick epoch]

but would you like the assistance, plus additional ground radar to see other spots?

in an open area, for sure its not hard at all

[rain sparrow]

Ef24 does it just fine

[rain sparrow]

Sure

No mountains?

Ok

Fly 3000 feet off the ground

[quick epoch]

im talking about congested cities too

[rain sparrow]

Use the mischiefs sensor fusion to find targets and put them on tsd

[crisp carbon]

AH-94 for urban warfare

[rain sparrow]

easy game

As the mischief does the same as the 45 but only to 1 mile

🗿

[quick epoch]

how about this okay

f4 has it for 8 miles, all the bombs, all the missiles

how ab it now

would u fawkin enjoy it

goddamn nothing can please u

[rain sparrow]

So it’d be an F45 but even more op?

lmfao

There’s a reason I dont fly the 45 or the 26, they feel too powerful for me, I like being restricted.

💀

[quick epoch]

i dont like the f45, the 26 is good

i like having more pylons

i do like the 24 for most missions too, but there will be times i switch to the f26 especially for cities

[rain sparrow]

wanna know what I do for maps with only cities?

I fly this aircraft

Specifically made for such

It’s a rotary wing

The fucking AH94.

Or hell even the AV42 if it’s urgent

No thanks buddy I’ll pass

[quick epoch]

the av42 doesnt have multiple pylons

[rain sparrow]

I don’t think this game needs another FA26

[quick epoch]

the AH94 is good ngl, but not for many missions

FA26 isnt the RF4

[rain sparrow]

6 pylons is enough for me to have fun

[quick epoch]

okay great, "6" pylons, but 2 can only be equipped with 1 missile

[rain sparrow]

I do not need every weapon all at once to have fun

[rain sparrow]

or I can bring bombs on those??

💀

[quick epoch]

blud, if you cant see the vision than idk how to help you

[rain sparrow]

??? “Help” me????

what

[quick epoch]

you make me want to become lobotomized from your insanity

The RF4 has additional sensors to grant way better A2G combat, while holstering more munitions like the 26 does with RSO in the back. It also will have additional MALD's to help keep your eyes on the prize at all times

[rain sparrow]

what you want:
Recon plane with every missile and bomb in the game with DAS to 8 miles and drones that find targets for you

[crisp carbon]

here is what i understand : an FA-26, less manouverable, with more sensors and ISR equipment

[rain sparrow]

🗿

[quick epoch]

kinda, yeah

[quick epoch]

this was a statement to see if it would make you happy

[rain sparrow]

it made me not want to have it at all

Giving it more shit does not make it better

Less is often more.

[quick epoch]

idk man i was just saying it see if we can get somewhere 💀

[rain sparrow]

making it the most powerful plane in the game would not make it fun

🗿

You don’t seem to understand that

[rain sparrow]

(So an F45 in tech but an EF24 in maneuverability?)

[quick epoch]

if I had to sum it up, it would basically be the F26, less maneuverable and due to its powerful engines AS I STATED IN THE OG post, Fox 2's would have a field day with it, and it's RCS is not any better for Fox 3's.

BROO

NO

but it will have better advantages for A2G combat

ohhh myyyy godddd

[rain sparrow]

So it’d be a mischief

😭

[quick epoch]

lmfao i love you bro

[rain sparrow]

you literally described

The issues

The mischief has

💀

[quick epoch]

tbh i dont think i havent laughed in a discord post this much before

[rain sparrow]

large rcs
massive engines that light up like a Christmas tree for IR

less maneuverable than a wasp

big powerful engines

🗿

[quick epoch]

the 24 doesnt boast a large munition capacity

but the 24 does what it does best

[rain sparrow]

I mean I’d call 26 total munitions pretty good

🗿

22 bombs and 4 missiles seems pretty good to me

[quick epoch]

The 26 does boast a well armament capacity

[rain sparrow]

Yeah, 30+ bombs and 4 missiles

💀

[quick epoch]

like I said before, its basically the 26, but instead of multirole fighter, its a fighter bomber, or interceptor

[rain sparrow]

Want to know something funny?

[quick epoch]

yes

[rain sparrow]

The F45

[quick epoch]

bro

[rain sparrow]

Has the exact same total munition capacity

[quick epoch]

thats it

[rain sparrow]

As the mischief

[quick epoch]

im sending in my draft papers

im going in the usaf airforce

first lobotimized pilot

[rain sparrow]

Just its 24 air to ground missiles and 2 air to air

[quick epoch]

ill see you later my friend

[rain sparrow]

yay he’s gone

[quick epoch]

nuh uh

(guys lets get this RF4 upvoted before he comes back)

@crisp carbon dont make me touch your toes.

un-unlike this post rn

[crisp carbon]

don't tell me what to do

This suggestion is a big mess imo

[quick epoch]

On topic, the F4 has and always will remain iconic for what it was worth before- being capable of carrying a large payload for A2G with unique features and accuracy for it’s time. Now in VTOLVR, it will be capable of carrying much more advanced avionics and other advanced applications. This is nothing in no means “overpowered” nor underpowered, it’d unique, has abilities in finding and targeting opponents, and overall be good as an interceptor or again, a fighter bomber

The AA radar is not what makes it unique, in fact, it’s distance would be the same if not less than the 26

[crisp carbon]

so its' multirole

figter, interceptor, bomber

[quick epoch]

its a ground based multirole, sure

Any aircraft in game can be multirole, except the ah94

[crisp carbon]

what does ground based multirole mean ?

[quick epoch]

The av42c as well, but only fox 2’s

Its not “meant” for multi role, its meant for ground

Like I said before, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should, you can make the av42 a “fighter” with Fox 2’s, do you think it would last long against any other fighter?

[crisp carbon]

okay so it's not an interceptor

[quick epoch]

Or the 24, yes it has a2g abilities, but don’t you think the 26 would do it better?

[crisp carbon]

nor a fighter really

[quick epoch]

It is considered a fighter bomber, but we both know the f4 help up against the Mig’s… to an extent

[crisp carbon]

the F-4 was designed originaly as a fleet defense fighter

[quick epoch]

It really didn’t do well on 1v1’s, but as an interceptor with vast SA it did well

[rain sparrow]

didn't the F4s radar kind of suck? 😭

[quick epoch]

yes, hence it was a navy aircraft, but it wasn’t designed strictly for fighter purposes

yes

it did

[rain sparrow]

ok

[quick epoch]

It was not well

well wait

Ait was well but NOT great it any means

Like I said in VTOLVR, their will be upgraded tech

[crisp carbon]

I have to ask, does it matter that it's an F-4 ?

[quick epoch]

Nope not at all

[crisp carbon]

okay good

[quick epoch]

i only chose it because it has both air and ground radar capability and is carrier based

I want a better a ground pound fighter, but the A10 sucks and isn’t carrier based and extremely slow

[crisp carbon]

F-18 also does that

[quick epoch]

The 26 is based off thr 18, no AG rdr

And theres already an f14

This is the only craft around that timeline I could think of that fits this role

Hence the original title purpose “Type Aircraft”

[crisp carbon]

does it need to be an old looking design with upgrades ?

[quick epoch]

I want a better ground pounder, av42 and f45 have drawbacks if limited pylons, the 26 is great but lacks better tech, the 24 is awesome but alas lacks pylons and shouldnt be used strictly for ground pounding and more for SEAD

Ill research better airframes, but I figured the f4 would work due to it being an iconic craft

Im looking for something with ground pounding ability with preferably a second seater

Sadly any second seater aircraft is going to be older due to the fact technology made it easier for pilots to fly solo and its significantly less weight

If you can help me find a better airframe than the f4 im all for it, hell it can be a fake design

But its a well design for A2G combat that did it’s job good.. except as an interceptor (we dont talk ab that part)

[crisp carbon]

rafale

[quick epoch]

I do believe the F4 is the best fit though for this case, any other “carrier based attackers” I see are either the F18 or way older aircraft that won’t suffice

[crisp carbon]

again, Rafale

it's in many ways equivalent to the F-18

[quick epoch]

Ohhh lets see

This?

I think I’ll remake and copy this post but with a fresh slate, I think it went off topic too much

That and a better more focal point for A2G

Doesn’t need to be the F4, but but as far I know I think it’s the better option, haven’t looked into that aircraft much yet

It is capable of recon and it is more modern

[crisp carbon]

You don't need to specify a design

[quick epoch]

I’d like everyone to be on the same page though

[crisp carbon]

just say "recce fighter" or something

[quick epoch]

fair

I feel like every aviation enthusiast would know the f4’s pros and cons and why I would’ve chose it, but perhaps I’ll be more broad and suggest it instead

[crisp carbon]

you want a better sensors and recce drones

doesn't need any specific design

[quick epoch]

Alrighty

[quick epoch]

I will be moving this post to #1269636066319536239 for a clean slate and better odds of an airframe instead of sticking to an F-4 Phantom

[little lance]

I think a recon aircraft could be cool but an RA-5 type would be more unique

An F-4 is just an older 26

[quick epoch]

I kid you not I was actually looking up the RA-5 myself. Only reason I didn’t post it was because I’m unsure if it was capable of any A2A

[quick epoch]

I get where your coming from with this but with the unique features, it will prove better for A2G

[little lance]

There were concepts for it but tbh I don’t think it needs to be able to do big air to air or air to ground

The other jets are just better

[quick epoch]

Wrll thats why I originally stated the F-4, because it is better for A2G if it has better sensors, the performance in terms of speed is about the same but can carry more but of course is way less maneuverable

[quick epoch]

Everyone that saw this post please go to #1269636066319536239

[stuck ledge]

500+ comments in under 5 hours is impressive

[crisp carbon]

emissary inflation

[maiden adder]

I see Phantom, I like.

[gaunt mauve]

you can lock ground targets in the ah-94 and it tells you what it is while also shwoing you a display of what you're actually locking

[crisp carbon]

which is the coolest thing in the game btw

https://www.twz.com/space/if-spacexs-secret-constellation-is-what-we-think-it-is-its-game-changing

[maiden adder]

Fr. I wish the ground radar wasn’t locked behind a paywall

The trainer should have it, but that’s a separate conversation

[gaunt mauve]

Eh trainer doesn't really train anything for the heli in the first place you just want a fixed wing aircraft with a ground radar

[maiden adder]

Both though. It’s a lead-in fighter trainer, but the systems are fleet wide

I really actually want the 26B to have a bespoke feature like that, but that’s another another conversation

[crisp carbon]

ground radar / SAR / GMTI

it's all so fucking cool

and i hope we get more of it in VTOL

[maiden adder]

Fr

[sour sparrow]

Every new vehicle must bring new gameplay mechanics to the game.

Have you noticed that every new vehicle must bring at least one new MFD page?
The FA-26 brings Radar.
The F-45 brings TSD.
The AH-94 brings ground radar.
The T-55 brings HUD repeater and smoke.
The EF-24 brings jammers.

So, what new MFD pages will this new vehicle bring?

[maiden adder]

HSD, MAV, HAD, who knows

Plus, the whole "new features" thing has been beaten to death and back

How about a NAV page that has optional terrain data, and works more like the SA page from the F/A-18C or the HSD from the Viper? Or! A Terrain Following Radar?

If it is a recon aircraft with light strike / A/A ability, how about a specialized RECCE pod and MFD page?

Ooh! How about a TV page for guiding TV-guided weapons like Mavericks or AGM-62, or GBU-8/15?

[quick epoch]

Yes yes yes and yes, that would be awesome 🙏

[rain sparrow]

I want a TV page for all the MFCDs

:(

(I hate the look of tgps)

[maiden adder]

A TV MFD page for deploying TV-guided bombs and missiles without a TGP would go hard

[rain sparrow]

Ikr

It’s mainly why I want such

[maiden adder]

Ideas ideas…

[crisp carbon]

i was in greece last week, and everyday i was secretly hoping to see a phantom

[maiden adder]

Wow this is an old version of my model. I’ve improved it so much since then.

A Phantom-style aircraft in VTOL would simply be PEAK.

[jagged field]

PHANTOMMMMMMMM

[quick epoch]

I rly wish new airframes were in the game, even if stats were identical to other aircraft in game, just different cosmetics and placement of buttons would feel so much better and different play styles would still exist

Pray the f4 comes in stock🙏🙏

[dry dune]

An f4 would be awesome

[maiden adder]

Yessss, my brothers. Become one with the Phabulous Phantom

[dry dune]

I love the phantom even the Jank mod is just fun

I gotta learn modeling and make a non jank version

[maiden adder]

there was one floating around somewhere

🤔 looks familiar…

[dry dune]

Hmmm

I’ll probably make an f4C first because I believe that’s the one seater variant and is an easy exterior

The only hard part is the interior

[maiden adder]

There were no single seat Phantom variants

Except the prototype

[dry dune]

Really?

Dang

[jagged field]

I need an unmodernized one though

[maiden adder]

well my idea was it could do both

old when you want it, but ~2006 era if you wanted also

[dry dune]

The phantom operated till f 15 era so modernization would be pretty easy

[maiden adder]

Yep. Just look at Germany, Turkey, and Greece.

[jagged field]

germany no longer uses f-4s

but did until the 2010s I think

[maiden adder]

Yeah, but I mean in Modernization programs

Japan had the EJ Kai too

[jagged field]

the british one had more powerful engines too I think

[maiden adder]

Yeah, but the fuselage had to be remodeled to fit them, so they lost a bit of efficiency and transonic speed

[maiden adder]

To add to this and other Low Tech aircraft suggestions.
A manually configured INS display for entering waypoints and current location. Either with Analog drum and dials for displays, or a digital LCD screen.

Even the late 70s early 80s Digital stuff is neat and has merit in a retro fighter

[nimble crag]

ngl, i see no real purpose in game for a recon aircraft, most people dont rely on ground intel, look for their own targets, and as boring as it sounds

the f45 already fills this role, as it does with like 90% of suggestions

truly the most boring aircraft

[maiden adder]

All the mfs who clown reacted this post are clowns themselves

Rule of Cool

Phantoms are sexy and deserve to be in VTOL

[nimble crag]

yeah but also, whether i like it or not, the general rule is

If it doesnt bring anything explicitly new to the table, something that could be considered a new feature, it doesnt get added

[maiden adder]

Stupid prerequisite and should be ignored for new craft

The only new things to be added are SAR, Utility, Cargo, everything a Blackhawk can and will do

[nimble crag]

and SAR is probably better covered by the kestrel

also ASW and TV missiles but thats all i can think of

[maiden adder]

[jagged field]

I think a recon plane for this game is probably dumb (unless we get more people running servers and someone does what enigma did on ecw)

But

Phantom

I rest my case

[quick epoch]

i mean think ab how many rp srvrs and "fun srvrs" there are

not even saying that the phantom is only rp or "for fun," as a recon

but ur missin the main point

maybe recon isnt the best choice of words for the post, but being able to get ground/air radar on a vehicle (which the phantom did have) MALDs for higher detection range, and passive radar technology within them, and ofc, the typical phantom loadout

many people wanted a "bomber" role, as we know the phantom can bring unfathomable payloads without it being a bomber (because its VTOL VR, dedicated bombers would prob never be added)

and its another twin seat jet

[quick epoch]

also not to mention the MALD's should be equipped with a laser

better cam/zoom, large payloads, higher detection status, laser equipped MALDs for buddy lasing (especially good with weather), and it would be pretty cool to be able to tap into hostile comms to listen to their communication

[quick epoch]

so with this-

pros: extremely fast, heaviest payload capability for bombing, easier/more flexible laser targeting acquisition, easier and more accurate targeting/relaying TSD info (this would be great for economy wars)

cons: sluggish turn rate/a flying boat, extremely low fuel efficiency when using afterburner, large RCS, slightly more than comparable fighters

what it adds to VTOL VR: mobile map planning, tapping into low band radio frequencies, enhanced detection and locations from radar sites, and perhaps an MPAR for even more recon and intelligence gathering. And for the fun of it as mentioned before with much love, RECCE Pods, TV guided weaponry, and a more advanced and integrated NAV page instead of what is used in the future tech cockpits.

in summary, a fighter jet with heavy support capabilities

[maiden adder]

Just sounds like a different 24 with no EW but more Support capabilities and a mix of a low tech 26

I like it

[tacit pecan]

I fw it

[quick epoch]

i mean framewise i suppose it could be relative to a 24, but way different capabilities

[dry dune]

If you could get the multiplayer code for the t55 it would be a better frame

[maiden adder]

The issue with that is that Baha wants people to either use a DLC check so you cannot play a Multicrew mod without owning the DLC, or by programming the multicrew custom and by yourself

[dry dune]

Yeah

Someone was making their own multiplayer code

[quick epoch]

oh to have a phantom in game-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e05nURxKGYs