Disability Support

[smoky grotto]

Listen I know baha doesn't like the idea of HOTAS in his game because it takes away from it's core principles. Sure I get that. But sometimes people don't have a choice; No one in their right might would want to play darksouls on kbm, but if you don't have a controller the option is there. VTOL VR is much better with VR controls, but my buddy has one hand and literally cannot play this game. Sure there is a janky mod for it, but then he can't join the multiplayer servers I play on.

Baha please add hotas support. It completely disables the game for disabled players and turns off a lot of hardcore simmers that already invested hundreds to thousands in their sim setup. I love you man and 99% of the decisions and gameplay is AMAZING, but this is a terrible hill to die on.

[smoky grotto]

yeah my friend can play other flight sims fine. He can even use a normal controller with one hand. It's harder for him for sure, but he can do it with practice. For VR controls it's not even possible. With over 300 games in his library this is the first game EVER that he cannot play with me. He can easily click anything in the cockpit with his right hand.

Hell he was almost able to fly going back and forth, but being unable to use the throttle and the stick at the same time was really hard.

he literally just wants it to bind the left throttle to something else

everything else is completely doable

Its so far to the point we're working on desinging and 3d printing a vr controller for him. It mounts in a way where he can use what remains of his wrist to click 4 extra buttons. Only thing we can't do is the thumbstick on the left hand which is STILL a problem for this game. Even our engineering efforts will make no difference for this particular game

which would be solvable in like 2 seconds with keybinds -.-

[bold pasture]

if the flat screen and triquetral input mods were made much more official, and much less buggy, I could see that being an option to be added to multiplayer. It would not be anywhere near an advantage, but it would open the door for people with disabilities and eye sensitivities to get into vtol

it would suck to use, and it would need some work, but it would also open the door to many people who really want to play it

my friend just can not use VR for more than a few minutes without his eyes hurting, so he's interested in setting up flatscreen and triquetral input, he's just not motivated to because he really wants to play multiplayer

i really really support this, and any rebuttal shouldn't be end of story, it should just be problems which can be adressed

rebind throttle to rudder pedals and foot buttons

[bold pasture]

@smoky grotto i know it's a silly suggestion, but assuming VTOL allowed it, could your friend fly if throttle was based on a foot pedal and the buttons were also on the foor

it would wipe the need for flat screen support, while allowing for one hand playing

• people without a right hand could use center stick

throttle pedal, CMS button, engine tilt button, and MFD switch button

[sweet void]

uhhhh

I disagree

it would definitely be an advantage

the thing about how you have less fps and lower resolution when in vr would make it so much easier for pc players

especially since vtol is optimized for vr

you would be able to do stuff way before a vr player could

[bold pasture]

have you even tried to struggle your way through those mods

anyways, there can be a resolution cap for pc players

and VR has much better situational awareness, and ease of use

even if it was fully functional on multiplayer, vr would still be the preferred option because of more swift control and immersion

higher resolution is not enough of a benefit

[sweet void]

it kind of is though

I constantly look at my pc on s cam to see stuff in front of me lmao

I fw the Hotas for disability support but

having flat-screen seems too much of an advantage

I doubt baha will add either of these anyway though

[smoky grotto]

Yeah I def say kepe it vr only. That's another thing I didn't like about dcs was the horrible disadvantage you had in vr against monitor players

You can't see shit in vr

[pulsar rain]

@smoky grotto VR players have an advantage in DCS

You are able to see from significantly further in VR DCS

I don't see any advantage Desktop could give over VR

[smoky grotto]

that probably depends on your headset... I def could not see anywhere near as far in vr. Too blurry

[pulsar rain]

What headset were you using?

[smoky grotto]

my buddy can play in vr with one hand jsut fine switching back and forth from throttle to stick really fast. He just can't use the HOTAS mods in most servers. Including the flight wings I'm in

[smoky grotto]

valve index. great refresh rate, great fov, really bad screen door effect

[pulsar rain]

Yeah no Ur good

Any "not being able to see people" is your own skill issue

[smoky grotto]

I can see just fine in flat screen on dcs. Idk how you can possibly think you can see better. DCS is EXTREMELY blurry in vr

even on lock and I know where they are I cannot see them

it's totally fine for dogfights where you go to the merge, but it's rough when you're trying to close in on someone

plus you can zoom in normal dcs. I think you can in vr but that would make me sooo sick

[pulsar rain]

I understand, I play DCS VR. I feel the difference. DCS boosts lower resolution, and also boosts VR viewing distance for targets. I have felt this myself and this is compounded by everyone I have talked to.

If you want I'll send this video about it.
https://youtu.be/UIgB7b7mTUo?si=czM3x3nmeQSoRYTC

[smoky grotto]

He can fly without all that jazz. He really just needs a throttle to support it. He can fly with one hand even, but it's really hard for him

[pulsar rain]

@smoky grotto
I recommend watching this video

[smoky grotto]

that's weierd because I've heard the opposite from everyone I talked to. Lot of guys in my flight wing wouldn't run VR when we did pvp because they felt they couldn't see their target

[pulsar rain]

Yeah DCS has funky target scaling that makes it so VR targets can be viewed from further and appear larger

This is something I have felt myself

[smoky grotto]

it probably gives viewdistance advantage strictly because it's hard to see your opponents. Especially on older headsets. I ran a first gen oculus before this and I REALLY couldn't see shit

[pulsar rain]

Anyways, I feel like mentioning DCS and balance is a little irrelevant here

[smoky grotto]

yeah I agree. I don't care about dcs, I just want my buddy to play on official servers instead of having to use mods to play. It's super unfair to him. I get baha has a vision, but his vision is uneccessarily exlusionary

VR games are really bad in general about this. So it's not just him. I've had to mod other games for my buddy to play and we've 3d printed him some solutions where that wasn't enough. But I'm at a loss on this game

I can't engineer my own VR throttle, that's a bit much

[pulsar rain]

Plus, I feel like overall it's a massive positive, and EVEN IF it would give an advantage (which I will die on a hill that it won't) then that's fine? PVP doesn't really matter, it's about being able to fly out with friends.

This is coming from a sweaty PVP player. 👈

[smoky grotto]

my only idea was ripping apart a throttle and attatching the vr controller to it and just have it always on grabbing the throttle

[smoky grotto]

I agree. I don't even think it's an advantage. You can fly well with your setup or you can't. HOTAS isn't gonna turn you into a god pilot. Honestly hotas mainly helps with the fine movement controls which doesn't really comeup in pvp, at best it comes up when you're tryiing to put guns on a target

which is the least liekly scenario unless you're on a guns only server

[pulsar rain]

Exactly

And even then, it's still really easy to get INSANE godlike aim while using VR controls

[smoky grotto]

Yeah I've finally got used to them and honestly I think I'd be better with these than a hotas anyways. I stopped playing dcs over a year ago