G damage model for F-45A, A/V-42C

[gloomy basin]

F-45A and A/V-42C currently lack a G damage model. Despite the F-45A being able to exceed 16G's even if for a split second using rudder kick method, it should have a damage model given its possible to go above the point where even the F/A-26B takes instant damage.
Same for the A/V-42C, except it literally has a G limit switch so you can pull any amount without any damage whatsoever

[gloomy basin]

someone said something?

[visual parrot]

no

[gloomy basin]

oh fair

[urban plover]

I think the 45 has a somewhat fixed DM from what I heard from others who’ve played in the last month, but I won’t take a chance to give them as fair a chance to rip as the others

[boreal kraken]

Rather than a g-model for the 45, simply remove its ability to pull more than 9g's

[mental crow]

To add to this, the HMCS display works on the Ah94 without the visor down

Not necessarily a complaint, but still a bug

[boreal kraken]

That is:

1. Not a bug, as both the f45 and ah94 use a transparent visor to project the HMD onto (akin to the f35)
2. Completely unrelated to the gmodel of these aircraft lol

[vast crow]

My name be like

Ooooo ahhhh

[lean zealot]

@barren kite has been abusing this to be a menace in BVR severs plz fix

[barren kite]

erm

the word you are looking for is "using"

[lean zealot]

Mans pulling 37gs in the f45 to dodge missiles

[barren kite]

37 is a failed gpull actually

too much energy wasted

[green rampart]

Sorry what 😃

[keen dawn]

AGhCtUaLlY, apparently you can hit more Gs in the 55 momentairly without ripping your wings, so hitting 16Gs for a split second shouldnt break the wings

[green rampart]

How tf can it pull 40 g's 😭

[keen dawn]

The 45? Battery switch turns off the aircraft, including the flight assist. You can hit a lot of Gs, someone should probably try to figure out how much is the real limit

[keen dawn]

Here the link to the message that talks about hitting 36Gs in a 55
#1261582446877474897 message

[green rampart]

I'll test it tomorrow. Bet you could get extra with the rudder kick

[keen dawn]

Extra Gs with both rudder kick and battery switch? Maybe, but i wouldnt try to go for the additional effert of using rudder kick. I would focus more on proper timing, also you probably gotta figure out a way to log your highest G, or sth like that cuz when you pull, you turn off your aircraft including the G indicator

[green rampart]

True

[gloomy basin]

not anymore

you lose control of the aircraft BUT

the flight surfaces get locked in their last position

if you time it right when you pull the stick, it allows for UNLIMITED G'S ⛈️

[keen dawn]

Yea it still does turn off flight assist, it just also turns off the fin control in general

Turning off fins doesnt mean you dont turn off the flight assist

[keen dawn]

And the Gs are limited by your top speed and how well you pull the stick

[gloomy basin]

sort of true, maybe? not sure without specifically looking intot he game code

[gloomy basin]

also ofc

[keen dawn]

Well, for me turning off control but not turning off flight assist would just disconnect the stick input, and leave the flight assist to manage

[keen dawn]

I would call the Gs unlimited only when you are able to exceed the limit that will instakill you, cuz then it shows the true power of this trick

[gloomy basin]

well no, turning off the battery switch turns off the plane's "electronics". its not on or off, its just unavailable-ish?

[gloomy basin]

24 could probably do it by keeping you in an extended g pull

[keen dawn]

I would say its off, but whatever, either way you can do the funny

[keen dawn]

I doubt that long G exposure will kill you, but im not sure

[gloomy basin]

it could maybe

i dont remember

[keen dawn]

I remember messing around with more powerful engines and SRBs from mods and going 1200 knots, had to turn off flight assist on the 26 to stop vibrations, otherwise if you went above 1200 knots with flight assist it would start oscilating more and more, it would black you out and then kill you from instantaius G forces. I just wanna see that with the 45. Anyone up for testing this idea later? If so, you can dm me and we can goof around

[spring lotus]

only in extreme cases

[keen dawn]

Could you define extreme?

[spring lotus]

like, pulling 20 Gs for more than a few seconds

I don't know specifics

let me research rq

[spring lotus]

lied

that's not dangerous at all

hold on

This is what the evil AI digitocracy wants us to believe

[spring lotus]

I guess just take the amount needed to black out and double it, whether that's the G force or the amount of time

definitely not perfect, I can't find a graph

[keen dawn]

No i meant i doubted that in game prolonged exposure will kill u. Irl i know, but i just assumed that baha just did if G>deathThreshold then player.kill()

[spring lotus]

makes sense, I think it does but that can't be reached in flight

[keen dawn]

We gotta try. Maybe with mods? Idk ill test

[spring lotus]

get the higher engine thrust mod and go to 90,000 feet, back down, and then pull as hard as you can with full flaps

near sea level

[keen dawn]

I would use the 45 ngl. It can pull 48 Gs stock, so i think it has the best shot at doing this, especially with more power mods

[green rampart]

20 probably wouldnt kill you unless it's sustained for a long time. Some F1 drivers have experienced upwards of 150g's in a crash and lived

[spring lotus]

yeah it's a function of G force and time

[lean zealot]

Just an f-45 pulling 40gs to dodge an aim-120d
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1261582446877474897/1291998053351559229/image.png?ex=67022274&is=6700d0f4&hm=f12debadb399c1f542c2b910664ba445ea4ded95ec5e73a80afbdab4388b689e&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1261582446877474897/1291998053758402630/image.png?ex=67022274&is=6700d0f4&hm=46354469c20f772010d71a0e03ddf1647c83f904d739fb178760f4a95de0fb71&

[barren kite]

i see no problem here

[lean zealot]

@barren kite the absolute menace here pulling a 28G pull, this time with s-cam and replay

[barren kite]

[lean zealot]

Dropped from 600 knots to 230 knots in a couple of seconds, this is the power of not having a g damage model 🫠

[barren kite]

as long i get to cobra ringtail before the fix drop i'm happy

[random moon]

It's such a janky way to do it I'm honestly not even mad when someone does it to me

But definitely bad for realism yeah

[green rampart]

I def do this in bvr

So I can avoid losing ten million elo to someone in a 45 with 1500 elo

[lean zealot]

f45 cobra fixed - https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1278963432535752738

[barren kite]

[barren kite]

would have taken this over floppy fins ngl

could have made things high risk high reward

[keen dawn]

yup. wonder if its 45 specific, 5th gen specific, or for all aircraft

[oak vault]

where do you get this replay veiw? (right photo)

[lean zealot]

vtolvr.live

[oak vault]

holy hell that was quick

[scarlet ingot]

i love watching phil do his F45 bullshit

[barren kite]

new bs dropped

[wraith lodge]

Call me a dumbass but isn't the F-35 (the plane the 45 is based off of) like the most durable fucking thing ever

[twilit barn]

I mean if we pull the realism card, nobody would be g pulling

Nor would the 45 be the (2nd) best dogfighter with viffing

[keen dawn]

Define durable. If you mean most survivable, then maybe, im not sure, but it sounds possible with all the sensors and gadgets put into it. If you mean durable as in you can whack it with a hammer (or a missile) and just dent it in, i very much doubt that

[random moon]

G pulling has been done IRL in some of the higher g rated aircraft

[tender cargo]

depends on what G pulling we’re talking about
i doubt the "when missile hits the last RWR line, turn hard towards it" is remotely realistic

[random moon]

Actually, turning toward and past the missile when it reaches a threshold on the RWR is a pretty universal last resort to my knowledge

But yeah usually g pulling is done while cold irl, mostly because real pilots know to turn cold cause it makes evasion easier lol

Evading while hot is usually to return fire

And usually occurs far earlier than right before impact, cranking back and forth can reduce a missile's energy and make the eventual evasion far easier

This being because real aircraft don't usually have such high tolerances

[tender cargo]

i think some people legit just use that as their main defensive tactic, it disgusts me (for lack of a better word). I do the perpendicular g-pull as a last resort tho, so maybe im a slight hypocrite.

[random moon]

G pulling has its place, I do tend to make it the end of my list though, if no other option is safe

[keen dawn]

depending on which slice of the playerbase you take (skill range mainly) it may be most of people

[random moon]

Worth noting though that I main the 42, and on chase's server I mostly fly the 55 and 24 now

None of these are particularly good at pulling more than one missile

People who rely exclusively on g pulling are funny cause they end up merged with an entire wing then get angry that said wing didn't attack them one at a time like in the movies

[tender cargo]

if g-pulling means burning the last remaining energy of the missile to defeat it, then fine.
If it means out manoeuvering a high energy missile, then fuck that.

[random moon]

Or even better

Get caught out by the pairing of radar and IR missiles

G pulling is best done either when the missile is almost out of energy or when it's so high on energy that it loses turn power

There's a middle ground where it's unreasonable to expect you can do it in most planes, and even the 26 is unlikely to dodge more than one or two

It's realistic, the planes are just sci-fi

[tender cargo]

one or two to many if you ask me

but i suppose VTOL may be a little cursed, since the range of radar is so comparatively short, AAMs arrive sooner and with more energy ?

[random moon]

The F-16, the plane most known for this sort of thing irl, can pull 9 Gs

Obviously the planes that can hit 14 are going to dodge better

[random moon]

Yeah, who'd have guessed that when everything has stealth coatings, radar ranges go down

[tender cargo]

missiles do suffer more drag at lower altitude in VTOL right ? that is modelled ?

[keen dawn]

i also feel like the missiles have small ranges compared to irl

[keen dawn]

yep, they do (or at least it feels like it)

[random moon]

A little bit, I don't think the factors are quite right though

I know in DCS the air density is unreasonably high, I've heard VTOL is a little in the other direction though

[keen dawn]

it in general feels that stuff thats long range is at medium range at most, and stuff at small range remain at the same range, leaving it a bit too "compressed"

[random moon]

Do we even have any long range ordinance by modern standards in VTOL?

I know the 54 was long range for its time but nowadays the 120 does ok keeping up with it

I'd like a meteor but idk the map sizes seem too small

[tender cargo]

aim-120D irl is probably twice the range it is in game

and radars probably 4x the range

i would ballpark

[random moon]

I really doubt any modern radar can detect an F-35 nose hot at any meaningful distance tbh

The radars we have are insanely good

The 120D, yeah probably, we don't know

The one in game doesn't loft for some reason

[tender cargo]

mhm i don’t know, even even against AWACS i don’t feel like the range is quite right

[random moon]

Maybe, it is a bit silly that every single airframe is treated as having RAM

[tender cargo]

even the awacs types ?

tanker

[boreal kraken]

Unlikely, the 120D in game goes over 500nm

[random moon]

Certainly feels like it

If we compare to the 45

If not, the radars are weakened as to not have to model ram stuff

Usual video game shenanigans

[random moon]

True, the air density weirdness probably makes up for the lack of lofting

[tender cargo]

in what niche lab scenario ?

[boreal kraken]

air density weirdness
? VTOL uses a very similar density curve to irl

[boreal kraken]

No niche, just fly to like 50k ft and fire at a target far away

[random moon]

I heard people complaining that missile drag is really off

Is that wrong?

[tender cargo]

right, i call that niche

[boreal kraken]

Even at 40k we tested reaching over 200nm against a circling target (so closure wasn't a factor in range)

[random moon]

There's your problem, you're asking VTOL pilots to gain altitude lol

[boreal kraken]

50k ft is niche? Thousands of missiles on are server have been fired above that altitude

[random moon]

I'd be curious the percentage tbh

[boreal kraken]

Missiles tend to retain energy better than they should while manuvering, dosn't have to do with air density has to do with the fact that vtol is using semi-magic "torque" rather than running real aero calcs on missiles

[random moon]

Probably mostly 5th gens

[random moon]

Ah,that was the thing

I did know that the crank is weirdly weak in VTOL

[tender cargo]

30k feels like a deathwish to me, let alone 50k
not to mention any one of those shots is datalinked against (i presume) non manoeuvring targets

i can’t evade shit from 30k

by the time im in thicker air, i’ve run out of time and options

[boreal kraken]

There's been 30561 missiles fired from above 40k ft on my server

[boreal kraken]

any one of those shots is datalinked
They were 120D's yes
non manoeuvring targets
In both test cases, the target attempted to evade the missile once it aquired them. For the 200+nm test shot the target was circling, for the 500+nm shot the target was hot

[random moon]

The two aircraft with 120Ds can afford to go that high to be fair

One has stealth and the other has a hilariously forgiving MAR against most targets

[tender cargo]

i mostly fly the 24
mostly never above 25k

[random moon]

Weird

In the 24 I aim for 25 as a minimum, with 40k as my ideal

[boreal kraken]

But yeah point is the 120d in vtol defo is not half the range of the irl version