F-111 Style Tactical Bombing/Interdiction Aircraft

[fiery osprey]

Subsonic external loadout, because carpet bombing is fun
Also 111 dislikes, nice number lol

[wary slate]

all the dislikes are haters

[fiery osprey]

111 dislikes is a sign from the people that we should have the 111, of course

[wary slate]

genuine

[fiery osprey]

Darn

Ruined

[latent stump]

I can imagine.

Plane autists with no social skills getting offended that people are suggesting maybe fun things because it might cause the dev to divert their precious time to something other than the other thing that must be worked on instead. Or that something added will change the game. So sp00ky.

Really, the entitlement of some people is severe. I've said it a dozen times to people; shut up and let us have fun sperging about what could be.

I for one am thrilled and astonished that OP is saying "fuck it, fuck the haters, I'm doing it myself"

Remmeber, people wanted the F-14 Tomcat. No duh you can't just add in a literal Tomcat. But people still argued like that was what was being suggested. "Noooo it's just a worse F/A-25, nooooo super long range phoenix missiles won't be fun to fight, noooooo my realism in my fictional plane game noooooo there isn't a niche for it"

And then the EF-24 got added and it was a hit.

[winged roost]

The sad part about making an aircraft in FlyOut is: while yes, it is a good way of getting the model down on paper and making it flyable, there's no way to export the files then

If that was the case, we could have had a "Super Phantom" in VTOL months ago

[latent stump]

I'll just bank roll a modeler.

[winged roost]

Money isn't an issue with me personally, it's time, motivation, and not knowing how the hell to make a mod

[latent stump]

See I don't think a Super Phantom would be that interesting but I'm not gonna stop people from brainstorming what could be, nor am I gonna talk down at them or 👎 their posts. For all I know that might be fun as fuck.

And as modding gets more accessible it's gonna be great to see people fill in the gaps the dev just doesn't have much interest in.

[winged roost]

💯

It definitely won't be fun for every single person, nor will an F-111 style bomber

It's a niche within a niche within a niche

Flight games > Flight Combat Games > VR Flight Combat Games > Low Tech stuff in VR Flight Combat Games

[latent stump]

Considering OP's reworked post I think this is a very strong candidate now for why a plane like this should be added to the game.

There is a lot going on now to distinguish it and offer new mechanics.

[winged roost]

Yeah, but it's almost becoming a heavier duty carbon-copy EF-24 clone

Why not just slap extra bombs on the 24 and call it

[fiery osprey]

That’s the plan, or learn to do it myself. I already use blender for texturing, so learning how to model, rig, and animate and maybe then learning to mod would be the sure-fire way to go. I’d have to develop a 2-person code, which is will suck balls, but it must be done for a project like this

Either that or just call it a day and require the EF-24 for the mod like the Little Bird/AH-94 mod

and also code TV-guided munitions from scratch

https://tenor.com/view/willem-dafoe-insane-insanity-crazy-nuts-gif-13969946

[winged roost]

In a perfect world…

We’d have the tools to make mods a little easier. How did Baha ever begin making mods for KSP?

Plus, we should just have a true TV guided contrast weapon in VTOL.

[fiery osprey]

After spending time in the Modding server and learning how the game works (and how jank the F/A-26 and AI fighters are), I would love to try to learn to mod

Also the EF-24 under the hood is really cool.

Once I’m done with class and other projects I’ll try to learn (not a promise)

[flint stump]

I literally had this thought an hour ago

Would be fire if we had a BDArmory KSP like thing

[fiery osprey]

Also THANK you for saying this, it was driving me mad at people overlooking the unique aspects of this because all they see is another swing-wing aircraft, and with how often it was said I was wondering if I even put ‘em there in the first place

[tired creek]

You can use multicrew code as long as you have a DLC check

[vernal hornet]

Sadly i think that the swing wing aspect of this is rather a big deal, unless the plane itself would look vastly different from the 24. It is not to say that the idea is bad, but it may just look a bit too similar to the untrained eye. If we compare the current aircraft between each other, none of them look similar even at a glance. I feel that a similar principle would be applied to the next aircradt, making it look as distinct as can be. It is not a problem if the aircraft would otherwise be very different, and i love the idea of this plane, but i can see some slight trouble due to possible similarities.

[wary slate]

Good luck

[fiery osprey]

Anyways, for those watching me update the model, finished the rear segment just now.
Radar studies next.

[rose pine]

I personally feel like this aircraft could mistakenly become a stupidly broken BVR aircraft. If this thing can fly comfortably with 50 Mk82s, just imagine how fast it could go running only AIM-120s.
IIRC, a couple of Aardvark variants weren't even limited by engine power, they were capable of going so fast that their airframes would melt.
If this plane makes it into the modding world, a giant rebalance of it's weapons may be in order to stop it from becoming a Mach 3 Boom-N-Zoom BEAST that can outrun basically anything you throw at it.

[tired creek]

that's basically what the ef-24 already is

easy fix is to not give this thing SARH or ARH missiles

[crude sinew]

yeah the F-111G (aka FB-111) could reach mach 3 but was not titanium so couldn’t.

didn’t have the mediocre TF-30 iirc

[rose pine]

Best balance is just cripple it's A2A capability. Maybe let it run AIM-7s and kneecap its air radar, but definitely don't let it run AIM-120s and/or have a good air radar

[rose pine]

Combat-loaded EF-24s in my experience can hit about Mach 2.2 at high altitudes, but remember Mach is relative to air pressure, and that's modeled ingame

They're not actually going that fast in TAS knots

[tired creek]

I know that

and that's also not relevant to what I said?

[fiery osprey]

Probably, but it won’t be given an A2A radar, only having a ground search radar with an A2A mode (think AH-94 but more range)

With the TF-30-P100s the airframe can already reach Mach 2 easy, and Mach 1.35 on the deck.

[tired creek]

can I just say that 8x 120's it not a very limited A2A loadout

[fiery osprey]

It is a larger airframe so it seemed like an appropriate amount. Would 6x be more appropriate?

[tired creek]

TBH I'd rather it have 0

you specifically say it's "greatly deminished"

[crude sinew]

nah, amraam is a must

[fiery osprey]

Greatly diminished by the range of its radar

Only really useful for mad-dogging or close-quarters engagements

[craggy bison]

I feel like just stick to aim 9s

[tired creek]

yeah, the ranges where fox-2's start to become effective

maybe give it a longer range fox-2 with IRST, intead of fox-1/fox-3's

[crude sinew]

fuck aim-9, self defense is done with AMRAAM

[tired creek]

you've been working so hard to put the focus on making this an A2G aircraft first and foremost

and then you put amraams on it

[craggy bison]

https://tenor.com/view/dcs-f18-amraam-aim120-spamraam-gif-22553770

[crude sinew]

everyone with a brain uses AMRAAM for self defense, from F-15E to F-16s

[tired creek]

and this is a chance to make it more unique

that's what we want from a new aircraft no?

[crude sinew]

no i want usability

[vernal hornet]

AMRAAM but maddog only 🗣️

[tired creek]

it's got a 16nm radar

you're not gonna get much usefull range out of the amraams anyways

[crude sinew]

better than the 3mile, visual only AIM-9

and 16nm is awful who thought of that ?

[tired creek]

read what I said😭

[tired creek]

you know

the guy who made the post, TO SHOW IT'S AN A2G AIRCRAFT

[crude sinew]

the whole point of ground radar is to acquire targets from a long range, it should have a proper radar, especially in A2G, and probably A2A too, even if it doesn’t have amraam but for the sake of SA.
Bombers IRL have proper air big radars, so they can self scan for threats.

[tired creek]

I get that, but if it's got a really powerful radar and 8 amraams it's just an ef-24 but every so slightly different

[craggy bison]

Hmm, what would everyone think of a max dist limit of 32nm, no amraams

I don't think it should get sarh or arh missiles

But a longer range fox 2 would be interesting

[rose pine]

It's for the sake of balancing. This aircraft would most likely be able to hit mach 2+ at combat altitude with an AMRAAM loadout much easier than the 24. It could basically outrun anything you throw at it, making it essentially a faster EF-24.

This is a ground-strike bomber. Having a 64nm A2A radar and 8 AMRAAMs just makes it the most overpowered BVR aircraft this game has ever seen.

[winged roost]

Just give it two heaters for self defense and that’s it

[rose pine]

I think that the balancing options are:

64nm A2A radar but no SARH or ARH missiles available (so-called "self-scanner" for air threats)

32nm A2A radar but no ARH missiles (limited BVR capability at expense of situational awareness and threat detection)

16nm A2A radar with limited numbers of SARH/ARH missiles (keeps BVR capacity fittingly limited while keeping advanced weaponry, but has the expense of very little situational awareness capability)

In my opinion, heaters only would be the play. This isn't a fighter, this isn't an interceptor, this is a bomber. You don't see the Air Force slapping 64nm radars and AMRAAMs on Lancers and Warthogs.

[winged roost]

Real and True

[crude sinew]

what re those ranges meant to be ? detection of a frontal ASF-30 ? or just how far the mfd page goes ?

Also fuck balancing, let’s be real aircraft don’t need to be balanced, especially since it’s a PvE aircraft

[fiery osprey]

I mean, you can sacrifice the gun for more bombs, I don't see that on other planes either lol

[fiery osprey]

That is true, and fair, but if push comes to shove and all allies in singleplayer are shot down, at least you have the option to fight back against enemy aircraft without getting too close.

Think B-1R lol

After all, internal-only would only have 2x self-defense Sidewinders.

[tired creek]

what does the weapon bay setup look like again?

[fiery osprey]

Check first message (FAQ), I outlined the pylons there

[tired creek]

unless I'm reading it wrong you've got 6x internal sidewinders right?

ah right but weapons in the internals

[fiery osprey]

If running Winders only, yeah. You right, my bad

The other option is 4x9 + Gun

I will note that in that message there aren't any AIM-9s on the external pylons, but that could always be changed.

[tired creek]

if you remove the amraams sure😛

[fiery osprey]

XD

Imma keep the AMRAAMs for now solely for player choice, but will keep that in mind

[tired creek]

no balls

[fiery osprey]

Could be like some of the older aircraft radars I've seen where the scan mode goes way further than the tracking mode. That would be fun to model

[tired creek]

how would you convey that without it being annoying?

[rose pine]

That would be amazing if possible. Give it the ~40-50 nm scan capability but have the weapons tracking range be the balanced 16nm range

[fiery osprey]

A hard line between the scan and tracking modes

Like, uh

Hold on

[tired creek]

issue with that is all other VTOL radars are much more dependent on RCS and stuff, so now you have a radara that just hard limits to a certain range

could probably just have hollow icons on the radar for low confidence targets

[fiery osprey]

Excuse the poorly-made diagram for this, threw it together in Word. The black range is search only and goes to 32 nm, like current radars, whereas the green goes to a specified amount.

Effectively, like how War Thunder's radar ranges work, kinda

[tired creek]

this though

or even the max range would have to fall within that green area

[fiery osprey]

Targets would still show up on the radar screen if the RCS would show them, just that you can't immediately start tracking them at the same time if they're beyond, say, 26 nmi.

[tired creek]

it just feels so weird to have a stealth jet and have the radar feels like it's from the 60s

[vernal hornet]

maybe instead of "just search" up to a distance, it could instead get a progressivelly worse lock, like a lock that is broken more easily or sth?

[fiery osprey]

Isn't that what's basically used now?

[tired creek]

code wise basically

but you can fire on any lock you can see

[fiery osprey]

Yeah, I'd wanna restrict that lol

[crude sinew]

it can’t g pull anything, this will never be a PvP god, why are you so worried about balance ?

[lost compass]

It could probably still gpull a 54

[fiery osprey]

Less "balance," more role-specific restrictions

[fiery osprey]

Probably not, unless it's bad enough for a 6-G turn to outpull it

[warm frigate]

We need TV guided shi

[fiery osprey]

Real

Where my Walleyes at-

[lost compass]

I’ve pulled an aim54 by doing 4-5 Gs

it will miss by a mile no matter what launch parameters it has

[warm frigate]

The bomber should also have a ground radar

[fiery osprey]

That's the main focus of the radar

[tired creek]

it has that💀

[fiery osprey]

But we were talking about AA mode

[warm frigate]

Mb i just found this suggestion

[tired creek]

we get it, reading is hard

[warm frigate]

Why tf you hostile damn

[tired creek]

no idea what you're talking about

[fiery osprey]

All good, feel free to leave your ideas on how to improve it

[crude sinew]

i don’t think you need arcady artificial radar nerf. If you want to discourage A2A use, you should just limit the number of Amraams. 2 to 4 missilles is what i consider a standard self defense loadout (F-15E, F-16, F-18, EA-18, etc). I know i would want 4 amraams for self defense, especially flying at 100ft where enemy fighters will have a huge range advantage over me anyway.

[lost compass]

Most EA18s carry 2 AMRAAMs, most 15Es carry 2 Amraams and heaters, etc etc

list goes on and on

[fiery osprey]

Hm, noted

[lost compass]

having 6+ amraams is no longer defensive

That is offensive

8 amraams is already what the 24 can carry with 2 jamming pods

the tyro can only carry 6 amraams and 2 heaters

like anything more than 4 air to air missiles becomes offensive rather than defensive

[vernal hornet]

what if 6 A2A total slots, 2 ammraam/aim7 exclusive, 2 heaters + radar, 2 heaters only?

and there can be A2G mounted on at least some of these, if more bombs/A2G is wanted

[lost compass]

I’d limit it to 4 hardpoints, either an amraam, aim7 or aim9, no exclusive slots, pick and choose

Similar to the glove pylons on the 24

optionally mount an air to ground missile

[rose pine]

Yeah, 4 A2A hardpoints only. Anything more than 4 missiles period can be considered offensive.

[fiery osprey]

RN it's 2 9s and 4 external slots, and 2x2 internal slots. So option for offensive A2A but would almost NEVER be done because doing so would be stupid af.

[lost compass]

You are literally forgetting that this is vtolvr

[fiery osprey]

Again, if it were to have its own single player campaign, allies get shot down often

[lost compass]

people are stupid

They’ll use things how they’re not supposed to be used

you aren’t limiting anything

You’re literally giving them the ability to do it

If I’m given the option between 50 bombs, or 20 bombs + 8 air to air missiles

I’m taking those eight fucking amraams

[fiery osprey]

8 bombs + 8 AMRAAMs max in that loadout, but heard

[lost compass]

Yeah I’m fine with that

[fiery osprey]

Also no gun or TGP in that loadout either

[lost compass]

Because thats more than what the 24 can do

Meaning its offensive

[lost compass]

dont need tgp for gps

or ccip

[fiery osprey]

This is true

Just saying that to say it

[lost compass]

you’re literally just making this a 24 that turns slower, has no jammers, and has some unique weapons instead

8 A2A missiles + 8 bombs is quite literally the exact same as the 24 can do

[fiery osprey]

Ermahgerd, anoder f24!

C'mon, man, way to diminish all the unique aspects of this thing

[lost compass]

No I’m arguing about the air to air aspect

Either 1: remove air to air entirely to make it truly unique

[fiery osprey]

Actually, wait. If you ran subsonic arms as well, it would be 32 bombs max + 8 missiles

But you're limited to mach 0.56

[lost compass]

Or 2; dont give it offensive air to air capability by making it carry 4 air to air missiles at most instead of 8

If you dont want this to be used as a missile slinging boom-n-zoom aircraft, don’t make it offensively capable

you cannot call someone “stupid” for using something you gave them the right to use

[vernal hornet]

i dont think hes calling someone stupid, but the loadout

[lost compass]

same way you don’t call AV42 pilots stupid for bringing a Gau over an m230

[lost compass]

the loadout isn’t stupid if it can be equipped in game

If a full T55 with nothing but 9Es is effective then I believe anything works

4 a2a missiles at most

Thats it

More than that and you’re granting it offensive capability and beginning to take away from what makes this unique

If this is supposed to be a purely defensive fighter bomber it shouldn’t be allowed to be used as a BVR truck at all

that’s just my opinion though

Also I’m fairly sure the AV42C can carry more air to air missiles than the EF24

(12 vs 10)

[vernal hornet]

more than 4 amraams i would say is offensive, but i wouldnt say more than 4 A2A missiles in general is offensive. especially compared to just how many bombs this can carry in general

[winged roost]

So my idea to swap the gun for additional RHAW / EW (HARM range and elevation system) on the 26 was panned to hell…

[fiery osprey]

Like, not happening, or what?

[winged roost]

People hated the idea

[fiery osprey]

Damn

Growasp tho

[winged roost]

F/A-26G “Wild Wasp”

[fiery osprey]

https://youtube.com/shorts/E67uHDT2c80?si=jc5upcGoWCGi_ko7

The more I learn about this thing, the cooler it is

Mach 3 bumblebee’s the one for me

[rose pine]

The only real argument for this airplane having air-to-air is "maybe it's an F-111B!" (which was meant to be a fleet defense "fighter") but it had horrible maneuverability, speed, and thrust-to-weight ratio. It also had no ground radar, or at least not one intended for bombing.

It could also only carry AIM-54s, which in the current state of the game, are horrible.

[fiery osprey]

It is meant to be a cursed amalgamation of F-111 variants, namely the A, B, F, and G:

A for its unmatched payload capacity and older missiles

B for carrier operation capability, though I like the idea of emergency fleet defense

F for its general vibe and engines, I love the look of the gray ones

G for its elongated wings

Add to that the stealth shaping and you get the model I’ve been working on lol

[rose pine]

I think the only thing for B should be carrier ops.

We already have a fleet defense fighter, and historically, the Aardvark didn't fit into the fleet defense role at all.

Too slow, too heavy.

[fiery osprey]

Slow in acceleration for sure, but maximum speed is actually pretty impressive for later models

Was able to get up to Mach 3.2 for short sprints if it was clean

[winged roost]

I’d rather want to see this one as an air force variant

SparkVark with bombs

[crude sinew]

EF-24G

[winged roost]

This whole design is a discount EF-24G but bigger and with more capacity

[rose pine]

*EF-24G focused almost exclusively on ground attack

with a higher bomb capacity, a ground radar, and (SUPPOSEDLY) reduced air-to-air capability

[winged roost]

Me when the 26 should have a ground radar

[lost compass]

"reduced"

can carry the exact same amount of air to air munitions with a bomb load

😭

sure buddy

[winged roost]

A bomb load and 10AAMs?

Wtf

[fiery osprey]

Uh… no?

At max it would be like, 6 with internal bombs

I mean, you could run bombs on the outside hard points and cheese it with 10, but I think that would actually snap the wings due to poorly managed mass distribution

[winged roost]

So would 48x 500lb bombs

[fiery osprey]

No no no, like

Here’s the thing

[winged roost]

I know those outer pylons have to be jettisoned to get up to speed, as they don’t rotate either

[fiery osprey]

Imagine the wing as a cantilever system. If you have a bunch of weight at the root, it’s not that hard to fight the loading. But if you have a lot of weight explicitly on the end, on a thinner section of the beam, the beam would flex more and could retain major structural damage

It’s a more extreme version of the F-16 wingtip AMRAAM dilemma by a factor of “yes”

[winged roost]

Hmmmmm 🤔

[wary slate]

Fun

[rose pine]

https://tenor.com/view/the-thing-fantastic-four-marvel-funny-gif-16818469443698155385

[warm frigate]

Idc as long as there's a side by side dual seat cockpit

[rose pine]

I think it can be as fast as all hell as long as it has the reduced A2A capability and the 6g limiter

[warm frigate]

Just think of the HB 106 mod

Just tried it today and it was fun as hell

[cobalt storm]

I will say the one thing the ef24 severely lacks is any optical munitions, the only way to hit a target that is moving is with a gbu 12, or at least consistently

[cobalt storm]

It needs some type of a2a because I garuntee you that if a asf 58 is on your six in a multi-player lobby no one's coming to save you and if they do there is a decent possibility that they will end up killing you

[rose pine]

which is why defensive A2A exists. However, 6-8 Aim-120s is absolutely absurd for defensive air-to-air capability.

Same reason A-10s carry 4 Sidewinders. Self-defense.

That's why 2-4 AMRAAMS or heaters (maximum) and a weaker air-targeting radar for closer-in (>16nm) defensive engagements would keep the aircraft safer without making it the most OP BVR plane in the game overnight.

Ultimately, it's best defenses are pure speed and superior energy in a BVR fight, allowing it to just run in most situations. It would definitely be the fastest plane in the game, when you do an emergency jettison and just leg it out of there.

[cobalt storm]

I'd say 32-40 miles but I think 4 amramms and 2 heater should be the max, and I'm not sure if this is specified but the 120C

[crude sinew]

wrong, AMRAAM is the standard for self defense. F-35, F-16, F-15E, EA-18G, A-12, etc, All primarily relly on aim-120 for self defense. They are far more usefull than aim-9, protecting yourself from enemy fighters in a bomb laiden strike aircraft with aim-120 is impossible, no mig worth a damn will ever let you get close enought for a winder shot.

[cobalt storm]

I will say the f18c which was a attack aircraft could carry 10 amraams so I do think there's nothing wrong with giving 6-8 air to air missiles

[tired creek]

the f-18 is not just an attack aircraft

there's a reason it has F in the name

[cobalt storm]

It purpose was to mainly replace the a7 and a6 though, it just happened that during that time the world realized how to make a multi role aircraft

[tired creek]

and also supplement the f-14 in carrier defense

it's the F/A-18, not the A-18

[fiery osprey]

I mean, if you're carrying that many 120s, you're carrying no bombs whatsoever without being limited to mach .56 and ripping your wings off on takeoff

[fiery osprey]

120C for sure, it's too old to have the datalink like the 45 and 24

It would be more like the 26 in that regard

[winged roost]

Maaaaaan, don’t make my 26 worse and less special to play

[fiery osprey]

XD

[winged roost]

We don’t need another airplane that can do its job

Just give the 26 MERs and call it

[fiery osprey]

It's just different ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[latent stump]

Or, hear me out...
It's not a real F-111 and we can do whatever the hell we want.

Because this is VTOL VR, not DCS.

[fiery osprey]

100 upvotes let’s fuckin’ goooooooo

[light oracle]

But 116 down votes ☹️

[cobalt storm]

we'll beat the ops eventually

[raw tiger]

Truth and Real

[winged roost]

@fiery osprey
https://www.ausairpower.net/TE-F-111-Supercruise-2001.html

AWESOME READ!

I was looking up F-4G stuff, and found this by accident!

[fiery osprey]

I legit used this as partial inspiration

[winged roost]

sickkkkkk

[flint stump]

100 likes

It's catching up

[craggy bison]

This has got to be the most active aircraft request thread

[winged roost]

By 100 messages over the F/A-26B remodel

Damn. The 26 truly is dead

[fiery osprey]

Yeah but you have the Overlord VA agreeing with u so that’s a win and a half

I have Woodward, somehow

[cobalt storm]

Who's the overlord va?

[fiery osprey]

That would be “nodokahanamura”

[cobalt storm]

Also if you have time, try sticking A5 wings to it as I think the swing wing makes people see f111=ef24- and I kinda agree with them

[fiery osprey]

I did make a delta wing configuration a while back, but I can give it a shot

[winged roost]

There are multiple VAs though haha

[fiery osprey]

…You make a valid point

[fiery osprey]

This feels incredibly cursed

[zealous barn]

that is, infact, incredibly cursed. good job!

also how big is that? It might actually be smaller than the 26 or 24lol

[fiery osprey]

Current dimensions (V3):
Length: 23.74 m
Wingspan: 21.64 m
Height: 4.89 m (Gear down), 4.10 m (Gear up)

[zealous barn]

FA26 has
Wingspan: 49.7ft (15.2m)
Length: 65.9ft (20.1m)
Height: 19.3ft (5.9m)
btw

[fiery osprey]

Yeah it's longer and wider than the 26

[zealous barn]

how the hell is it shorter then? is it the shorter gears and absence of a gigantic bubble canopy?

[fiery osprey]

Shorter gears, and lacking the massive vertical tails

[zealous barn]

ah I see

[zealous barn]

same wingspan as the 24 and only 3m longer 😭

I guess that goes to show how absolutely oversized the aircraft in VTOL are

[fiery osprey]

Hang on, I can compare this to another thing

One moment

[zealous barn]

doesn't help that that both the IRL F-111 and F-14A used the same GE TF30 engines, this might be a little too similar to the 24

[fiery osprey]

Forgot that I can import objects into this

Superficially, the F-111 looks similar, but that's only partially true. You'd definitely see the lack of LERX on the bomber

[zealous barn]

definitely

[fiery osprey]

Honestly the wings look more MiG-23-ish to me

[zealous barn]

I assume it's heavier and more unwieldy to control than the 24?

[fiery osprey]

Definitely

Especialy with significant bomb load

[zealous barn]

because that's all I need for this aircraft to be golden in my eyes lol

[winged roost]

It’s so… angular.

Me when Aardvark has hokey pokey with Nighthawk

[zealous barn]

so is the 24?

[fiery osprey]

So, the F-111 actually had a 15 degree limit on pitching up. It'd be significantly harder to control, and was only rated to pull 6 gs maximum

The best bet for this thing to evade missiles is outrunning them

[zealous barn]

ngl that side profile looks so much better than the 24, even though it's so similar

[zealous barn]

😻

[fiery osprey]

YES. I love the long nose so much

And the stinger ❤️

[zealous barn]

not just that, I hate how bubble canopies look so the actual cockpit is a breath of fresh air

[winged roost]

I just feel this makes the 26 obsolete…

[fiery osprey]

Valid, valid

[zealous barn]

it's kinda been at least a little obsolete compared to more stealthy options like the 45 and the 24

[lost compass]

give it an oblique wing instead..

better aerodynamically

[fiery osprey]

Not necessarily obsolete, the F/A-26 has a LOT more flexibility

[zealous barn]

execution

[zealous barn]

stoning preffered

[lost compass]

it was literally proven to be better

what are you on about

smh

[fiery osprey]

It was literally proven to not be better

[zealous barn]

ugly as heeeeellll

[fiery osprey]

Theoretically it was

But the actual aerodynamic tests proved otherwise

Anyways

[fiery osprey]

Behold, EF-24-2

[lost compass]

no they just cut fucking funding

they didn't get to do the high speed tests

they literally just cut funding and moved it to something else

[zealous barn]

this time with actually enough hard points to bomb lol

[lost compass]

so 16-22 bombs isn't enough?

[zealous barn]

I mean the EF-24's crappy bomb load, not the 26

[lost compass]

Yes

the 24 can carry 16-22 bombs

[fiery osprey]

And air-ground missiles

[lost compass]

the 26 can carry fucking 33

[zealous barn]

both of those with that amount of bombs are slow and sitting ducks

especially the 26

[lost compass]

the 24 is not slow

lmfao

and is not a sitting duck

what are you on about

[zealous barn]

slow(er)

[lost compass]

uh huh

I've hit mach 2.0 with 22 bombs and 4 missiles

I do not think the 24 fucking struggles with bombs.

I've only struggled to reach speed when carrying jammers.

[fiery osprey]

Anyways, swept comparison too

[zealous barn]

f111 going mach 2 with 62 500 pounders

[fiery osprey]

NO

It can't do that

[lost compass]

why the fuck do you need 62 fucking bombs

[zealous barn]

max bomb load ~31000lbs

[lost compass]

WHAT FUCKING MISSION DO YOU PLAY WHERE THE 26 AND 24 AREN'T CAPABLE ENOUGH

"bomb payload" is NOT a good reason to add a new aircraft

[fiery osprey]

...

[lost compass]

saturation bombing is NOT a good reason

that is just a fact

[fiery osprey]

Gonna just ignore the TV guided missiles and shiz

Anyways

[crude sinew]

you can add that to any aircraft

and should add to all

[lost compass]

can be used by literally any fucking aircraft

[fiery osprey]

In a supersonic configuration, this could carry at maximum 32 500 lbers

[lost compass]

yeah so can the fucking 26

• 4 missiles

you know

the 26 can go supersonic carrying 33 bombs and 4 missiles

[fiery osprey]

Cool

[lost compass]

it'll just take a while

saying "but it carries more bombs" is not a good argument, at all

[fiery osprey]

Thanks for boiling my entire request down to that

[lost compass]

TV guided munitions can be used by any aircraft with an MFD

[fiery osprey]

Despite me continuing a conversation about that

[lost compass]

VGW is something we already have

you also say "diminished" air to air capability yet it has roughly the same air to air capability as the 24.

You also want to give it a more powerful jammer than the 131

[zealous barn]

mach 1.00001 with a .70 twr and an rcs the size of Manhattan

[lost compass]

mach 1.22

and .7 TWR is not fucking bad

[zealous barn]

full burner?

[lost compass]

yes?

[fiery osprey]

Extra bombs is a plus for those requesting a bomber, which as we know, a LOT of people are requesting
The main features are TV munitions and Terrain-following/ground search/track radars
The jammer is not required, would just be cool

If you're just here to hate, leave your dislike, mute this post, and let the rest of us brainstorm

[lost compass]

I am providing Criticism

I am not hating

I want something like this

but your main argument has been "but it carries more bombs and uses tv munitions"

[zealous barn]

bro needs to provide constructive criticism, not just criticism

[lost compass]

I gave constructive criticism and you both shut it down immediately

oblique wings are unique.

thats something we do not have

[fiery osprey]

Criticism you've posted several times at this point. I really don't know what you think is "constructive" about saying "your arguments are all bad, this is just an EF-24 and F/A-26."

[lost compass]

its VGW like you want

[fiery osprey]

Or what can be boiled down to that

[lost compass]

and its literally been proven to be more effective than other options

[fiery osprey]

VGW is incredibly stupid for VTOL

Sorry

Oblique wing

My bad

VGW is cool

[zealous barn]

oblique wings are also really hard to put munitions onto

[lost compass]

then don't mount them on the wings?

[fiery osprey]

Yeah, making that work would be hard

[lost compass]

you wanted a bomb bay

use it

[fiery osprey]

Ah yes, 2 pylons

The belly isn't big enough for bombs unfortunately

But it has some in the nose area

[lost compass]

uh huh

okay so tldr:
ef24 but even fucking faster
roughly same missile capacity
worse jammers
turns worse
tv guided munitions
carries 3x the bombs
twr of fuckall
and SBS instead of tandem

[fiery osprey]

And giving it no external arms gives it barely any of the F-111's character

[lost compass]

it just sounds like you want a 24 with weapons on the wings to me

[fiery osprey]

In no universe would you be rocking a full A2A loadout but sure, roughly similar with AIM-120Cs

[zealous barn]

don't forget sbs!

[lost compass]

SBS is really not fucking important

when the entire system can be run by a single person

it is a radar page, a nav page and a tgp equivalent page

its not that hard

its just a fucking fancy 26 I'm gonna be honest

there is really no new gameplay mechanic in this

oblique wings would offer something completely new

because its a different type of wing entirely

[zealous barn]

so would the ability to carpet bomb

[lost compass]

you can carpet bomb

its very easy

[fiery osprey]

Point me to a combat-ready oblique wing and I'll add it

[lost compass]

you can do it in every plane

[zealous barn]

using 500lb bombs?? yeah no thanks

[lost compass]

mfw they cut funding to it because the US became conservative because of how mechanically complex variable geometry wings

[lost compass]

yeah and this uses 62 of them

wowwww

its still FUCKING 500lbs bombs

I won't even bother

its a plane with more bombs than a 26

[zealous barn]

I want to carpet bomb all of Berlin using that plane

[fiery osprey]

I'm sorry, but this looks stupid af

[lost compass]

turns worse than a 24

[fiery osprey]

No one would want to fly this

[lost compass]

and has ergonomics of a dishwasher

[lost compass]

I would

I would fly it

because its 1: unique

2: fucking something new that isn't in other games

[fiery osprey]

Hey guys new fighter we could add

Don't mind that it can't run pylons outside of the two on the fuselage

[lost compass]

A8 my beloved

hey hey

let me join in on this

hey hey look new shitbox we can add

we should absolutely add this

whilst we're at it why don't we add this?

why not this as well?

I'll do you one better!

[fiery osprey]

Gotta admit I love the front views of both, this one looks thin af

[fiery osprey]

They did add that tho

[lost compass]

why don't we add this super unique plane?

[zealous barn]

the uniqueness comes from the nature of the airplane. "Turns worse" isn't a good way to describe it. I want an aircraft that will be heavy on the stick. I want an aircraft that's a challenge to fly. I want an aircraft that can area bomb cities. I want an aircraft where I can sit next to my copilot and be that much more immersed. And most of all, I want an aircraft with an actual cockpit, not a bubble canopy or some gigantic ipad baby screen

[fiery osprey]

Pelican from Halo my beloved ❤️

[fiery osprey]

Fucking THIS

not to mention it wouldn't have the iPad cockpit

[lost compass]

is that your main argument

you want more mfds?

thats it?

[fiery osprey]

Nah

[zealous barn]

I want fucking STEAM GAUGES bitch

[fiery osprey]

That's misunderstanding it but ok lol

[lost compass]

AV42, T55, FA26, AH94

only TWO planes in this game have glass cockpits

thats TWO of SIX

[zealous barn]

MFDs are glass cockpits

[lost compass]

just have it your way

[lost compass]

ok how about

we add the viggen's cockpit then

no MFDs

nothing like that

[fiery osprey]

A cockpit somewhat like this would be cool, but a couple MFDs wouldn't be too bad at least

[lost compass]

your radar page is practically useless unless you know how to read the stars

and your RWR doesn't tell you where something is coming from before its too late

[lost compass]

no

MFDs are for ipad babies

you also don't get a HUD

I actually know of a MOD FOR THIS!

this is so much fun!

[zealous barn]

gigantic screens are for iPad babies

[lost compass]

(this is what its like talking with you two about this.)

we get you want an F111 inspired aircraft

but it has to bring a new gameplay mechanic

sitting next to your friend is not a new gameplay mechanic

tv guided munitions is something simple that can be added to any aircraft with an mfd

adding more bombs to a plane isn't something new

[fiery osprey]

You keep saying that, but we've literally brought up several and you just ignore it

[zealous barn]

mfw

[lost compass]

a ground radar is something we have in the AH94 already

[lost compass]

TFR?

is that it?

is that the new gameplay mechanic thats supposed to be completely unique?

[zealous barn]

my brother in Christ, what makes you think the AH-94 compares to this in the slightest?

[lost compass]

a ground radar is not a completely unique piece of equipment

it is something that can be given to basically any aircraft

same with TV munitions

god it's like talking to a wall

[zealous barn]

the wall blocks both sides man

[zealous barn]

that's a terrain following radar, not a ground radar

[lost compass]

wsa referencing you guys wanting TFR

a lot of what you are asking for

is something that can be given to basically any modern day fighter

either with a pod

or just by strapping it to the aircraft because it already has the systems integrated

it is better to ask for a TFR pod and a GR pod along with TV munitions for ALL AIRCRAFT IMHO

it is something that can be given to all aircraft and they can benefit from it

[zealous barn]

you're missing the point.

[lost compass]

heavy and hard to control aircraft

is something many want

sure its somewhat unique

but its not gamechanging

[zealous barn]

heavy and hard to control aircraft is a unique feature

[lost compass]

its not stealth, its not a helicopter, its not a full electronic warfare suite

[zealous barn]

it's a strike aircraft is what it is

[lost compass]

and so is the fucking 26

your point?

[zealous barn]

26 is a fighter

[lost compass]

fun fact: most naval aircraft (specifically modern day) have a heavier focus on GROUND attack rather than AIR TO AIR

the F/A-26B is a Fighter Attack aircraft

meaning its not just a fighter

its also a fucking strike aircraft

following the same principles as the hornet and superhornet

they are as much focused on ground attack as air to air combat, usually more focused towards ground attack if anything

[zealous barn]

26 also can't carry nearly as much munitions as a 111

[lost compass]

saying "its a strike aircraft" does not make it bring something completely unique to the game

[zealous barn]

half the capacity

[lost compass]

still carries 33 bombs and 4 missiles, whilst being supersonic

carrying more bombs is not a unique gameplay mechanic

[zealous barn]

there is a reason the F-111 carries over 30,000 pounds of bomb

[lost compass]

[fiery osprey]

Somebody, I recommend just leaving this. Emi literally can't hold an opinion

[lost compass]

I am literally giving you my opinion on this

[zealous barn]

yeah I probably should

[lost compass]

and explaining to you WHY its my opinion on this

[zealous barn]

you already have, and are continuing to repeat said opinion over and over again

[lost compass]

because you keep using the same arguments over and over

[zealous barn]

SO DO YOU

[lost compass]

[zealous barn]

https://tenor.com/bqusJ.gif

[fiery osprey]

Uh huh, you can definitely hold an opinion

[zealous barn]

I shall take my leave now

[fiery osprey]

Same

Got stuff to work on anyhow

[lost compass]

My issues with this aircraft:
1: Unique Gameplay Elements

• SBS is still just a two seated multicrew, you can still shake hands with your pilot/backseater in the 24, 55 and 94. (adding multicrew without the actual need for another player in the aircraft is unnecessary and is just adding something for the sake of it, it does not make it more unique.)
• Terrain Following Radars can be given to practically any fixed wing fighter in the modern day world, It is very simple to operate and doesn't require a second person to use it.
• Ground Radars can be given to practically any fixed wing fighter in the modern day world, Also very simple to operate and doesn't require a second person to operate it.
• TV guided munitions can be given to basically any aircraft with an MFD, also doesn't require a second person.
• Variable Geometry Wings is something we have in form of the 24 already.
  2: The points you bring up about its role.
• "it carries more bombs" Sure, but this does not make it anymore unique than an FA26B, the 26 and 24 can both carry 20+ bombs, which is usually enough, carpet bombing is something that is easily done already, but not a lot of missions tell you to carpet bomb in a straight line, oftentimes you're doing precision strikes using small diameter bombs.
• "reduced air to air capability" You say this as if this is true, whilst also giving it Eight (8) air to air missiles, this is on par with an EF24 carrying two jammers, this does not seem very "reduced" to me.
• You also say this will have a higher TWR and higher top speed than the already ridiculously fast EF24G, which can reach a staggering mach 2+ whilst loaded with 22 bombs and 4 missiles.
• Your points about this being a "heavy" and "unwieldy"/"hard to fly" aircraft would simply just make this handle even worse than the EF24G already does, people already complain a lot about how the EF24G handles, saying its too sluggish and is annoying to fly because of its issues with handling, whilst you also showed images of this aircraft being similarly sized to the EF24G.

There is very little about this aircraft that would make it completely unique and have things you cannot just put on other aircraft.

[zealous barn]

I come back with one thing and one thing only. I am not going to respond to any further messages. You can make whatever can be on another aircraft exclusive to this one airframe, so no TV guided munitions, no ground radar, no TFRs for any of the other aircraft. You could even remove the "auto" setting on the sweep wing. You do not have to actively try to make this aircraft completely useless compared to the other aircraft, just because something can be used on multiple aircraft. We already see this with some of the EF-24's jamming and EW capabilities that could be utilized on other aircraft, but Baha chose not to because it would detract from the EF-24's uniqueness.

[fiery osprey]

Addressing these issues:

• True, nevertheless this has been a widely requested variant of seating.

• Also true, but I think it's more a VTOL limitation as of current. Could totally be added for sensors, and I've argued for this point for other aircraft. Having it built into the airframe would be better, though, which is still somewhat unique.

• Also true, but not the case. Mods have shown that this can be possible, but for whatever reason Baha decided against it.

• Also true, but the usage would be different for the aircraft. The F-111 did have some unique arms that the F-15E didn't even use, and certainly not the F-14 IRL.

• Variable Geometry Wings aren't the focus, but a requirement for a bomber of any reasonable size. It's not a unique design feature for 70's-80's aircraft design, so it shouldn't be gatekept just because it's added in-game. Even so, it would be unique in its implementation, with hardpoints built into the wings and even locking the speed if you have non-swinging pylons.

• Payload capacity would be unmatched for this aircraft, which is part of the request on bombers. People want to have an absurd amount of armaments.

• Yes, it could theoretically run a decent amount of A2A missiles, but that's splitting hairs. The EF-24 can run 8 with jammers on the outboard pylons, sure, but the F/A-26 can run a whopping 12 AIM-120s. The F-45 can also run 10 with 4 AIM-9s to spare. It's still going to be lacking when compared with genuine air superiority fighters.

• I didn't say higher TWR, but definitely higher speed when clean. The F-111 could run past its stated top speed when its speed control fuse was pulled, going beyond mach 3.2+. In combat, this would never happen.

• That's on the expectations of the airframe. People would expect an F-14 to be able to dogfight, but not an F-111. What is a complaint for one airframe would be expected for another. You don't hear stories about F-111s doing insane maneuvers (aside from dump n' burn)

[lost compass]

Finally, valid arguments

thank you

Addressing the issues instead of arguing them is much better than what we did earlier

[winged roost]

And the 26!

[lost compass]

no

we aren't buffing the 26

[winged roost]

YES!!!!!

[lost compass]

nerf the 26

nerf it

[fiery osprey]

AN/ALQ-131

[lost compass]

remove its canopy

[winged roost]

Fuck you!

[lost compass]

remove the radar

[fiery osprey]

XD

[winged roost]

184 short or ALQ-119

[lost compass]

remove the ejection seat

delete the master arm switch

take out one of the engines

[fiery osprey]

Okay but fr the jammer would probably be more similar to the F-16 mod's than anything

[winged roost]

Yes!

[lost compass]

so op?

😭

[zealous barn]

remove the nose and replace it with an always on radar beacon

[lost compass]

auto rgpo is kind of very overpowered

at least in PvE

[fiery osprey]

Yeah that's valid

[lost compass]

like RGPO is already absurdly powerful if used right

[fiery osprey]

Yeah, but remember that you're not gonna be G-pulling in this thing

[winged roost]

Yes, and we need it on the 26

[lost compass]

you don't gpull when doing rgpo

you begin beaming to enter an RGPO notch

[fiery osprey]

Yeah ideally

At least for SAMs

[lost compass]

and aircraft

and missiles

and radars

and radars

[fiery osprey]

A2A missiles are a bit harder to do that to

[lost compass]

and radars

and radars

damn discord

[lost compass]

honestly not really

[fiery osprey]

I was full blasting RGPO at a missile one time, and I was forced to G-pull to escape getting hit. Ideally that wouldn't be the case

[cobalt storm]

I actually kinda like that design

[fiery osprey]

I will not be pursuing it XD

[winged roost]

Sexy

Something to differentiate it from the 24

[fiery osprey]

Its silhouette is already different enough

No massive LERX, just dorito

[rose pine]

i kind of perfer variable-gemometry wings

just because the 24 has them doesnt mean they're outlawed for every new plane ever

[zealous barn]

@fiery osprey you think this would be able to carry cargo, some kind of cargo pod that takes the place of a 3-banger of bombs that you would normally see?

[winged roost]

But I want a LERX

It’s sexy

[crude sinew]

just gib S-3 with a weapons bay
that’s your bomber

[fiery osprey]

Subsonic 🤢

[rose pine]

what is the point ofa dedicated bomber with reduced air-to-air defensive capability if it can't even outrun threats

[zealous barn]

subsonic is alright if it makes up for it with a high bomb capacity

[zealous barn]

it can tho? mach 3+ for short periods of time?

going cold would be kind of easy imo

going hot however, would not be

[rose pine]

responding to dauby's s-3 idea

[zealous barn]

ohhh I see

[fiery osprey]

I get the desire to be escorted, but I’d rather not rely on teammates, especially younger ones

[lost compass]

you want to be what

[zealous barn]

FRRRRR

[lost compass]

what does that word mean

[zealous barn]

flanked by fighters that protect you

[fiery osprey]

Given protection by fighters

[lost compass]

so you want enemy fighters to flank you and shoot you down?

or

I don't understand

[fiery osprey]

No no no

Allied fighters

[lost compass]

what does esc ort mean

[zealous barn]

friendly fighters that protect you

[lost compass]

what is a friendly fighter

i only know of enemy ones

[fiery osprey]

See he gets it

Teammates are just enemies in blue

[zealous barn]

"accompany (someone or something) somewhere, especially for protection or security, or as a mark of rank"

[cobalt storm]

Someone's played with children too much

[fiery osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/archer-you-what-huh-gif-19676334

[cobalt storm]

Oh shit

Do you never not feel the need to fox 3 a whiny child though

It's why this aircraft needs expanded a/a

[fiery osprey]

“ThAt’S My KiLl!!!”

[crude sinew]

as if subsonic bombers didn’t exist

[cobalt storm]

I have idea, shove sub hunting kit into bomb bay

Perfection

[zealous barn]

this is what happens to me in the T-55 when I'm flying around in freeflight, like stop touching my fucking switches I don't want my hook down

I usually just kick them out of the plane after a while lol

like clockwork they try to get right back in like they didn't just try to open my canopy lmao

[winged roost]

That’s why I fly solo haha

[zealous barn]

lol

[winged roost]

It would be nice for multi crew aircraft to lock the slot and not allow people to request to join

[zealous barn]

I like to have the satisfaction of denying them

[vernal hornet]

well, having SBS seating would allow us to show our emotions and dissatisfaction with our copilots much more effectively

[fiery osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/ghost-modern-warfare2-stare-meme-2022-gif-27104713

Me staring at the pilot after he fails another bomb run

[vernal hornet]

i was more thinking of

https://tenor.com/view/batman-robin-slap-cachetada-meme-cachetazo-gif-14588588888076113146

but that stare works too

[zealous barn]

I feel like this is atleast half of the reasoning for SBS, you get to bullshit around with your copilot lol

@fiery osprey I feel like there should be some sort of panel exclusively for lights, engines, etc, that's not on the front panel, like a pedestal or behind-pilot panel (ik an upper panel wouldn't work bc of the hatches)

might be a bad idea idk

just something that's not right there that you have to reach or look away from the front to access

[zealous barn]

me looking at my WSO after he somehow used up all of our weapons on complete misses

[crude sinew]

not having overhead switches in this would be criminal

[zealous barn]

technically the F111 doesn't have an overhead panel because the windows go all the way up

@crude sinew

but

That doesn't mean an "upper panel" style panel can't be put elsewhere

[crude sinew]

Bone

[zealous barn]

I love the bone, really wish the F111 could support an upper panel

but yeah, no bueno

[crude sinew]

no 1:1

you can put a panel there

[zealous barn]

definitely, would have to be relatively thin and simple tho

[crude sinew]

more upper front also possible but i prefer really over the middle

[zealous barn]

yeah most definitely

I'm actually in the process of making a mockup for the cockpit using Atlantis's model and I'm probably going to put some kind of upper panel on it

[crude sinew]

there aren’t that many switches in VTOL anyways

battery APU and both engines

plus lights

good enought for that pannel

[zealous barn]

something like this but thinner

(Don't mind the Rick)

here's that full cockpit for reference

[crude sinew]

yeah needs to be thinner

[zealous barn]

yeah, but due to VTOL's simplicity I'm sure it would be fine

[zealous barn]

@crude sinew yknow what would be kinda sick? A top-front panel that folds in for visibility, kinda like a sunblocker in a car

it might be needed since the front panel is pretty large and the cockpit is kinda short

[crude sinew]

nah that’s weird

i really think you can easely just have a panel between the two "canopies"

i want to have to lean and really move around to use the switches

only in VR

[zealous barn]

I guess, but I don't want to restrict the vision out of the sides by putting a panel there

[zealous barn]

@crude sinew how does this look? the bar behind the upper forward panel can be used as an upper panel

[crude sinew]

neat

[zealous barn]

This post is coming up on 3000 messages

insane

[stiff sigil]

Homie might as well make it a mod himself

cuz it aint getting added

[winged roost]

Neither is 99% of the other stuff people have suggested lmfao

[raw tiger]

@vernal latch I... Have.... An ... IDEA

https://tenor.com/view/i-have-an-idea-croods-grug-the-croods-gif-9990053463233283167

[winged roost]

Light mode 🤢

[fiery osprey]

Believe me

If I had the skills

I would

Y’know what, will

I am determined to learn

But I need the time

[flint stump]

Light mode supremacy

[crude sinew]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[zealous barn]

https://tenor.com/EtJK.gif

[charred osprey]

And it’s the same 4 or 5 guys spouting it. For no one wanting a bomber style aircraft, there seem to be a lot of bomber style aircraft suggestions

[cobalt storm]

I will say it's interesting that most bomber threads have the same few people opposing it

[fiery osprey]

And also bringing up PVP points like this would be used in it

[cobalt storm]

it's the equivilent of using a t55 in pvp but slightly worse

[charred osprey]

Pretty much. I wouldn’t mind an aardvark style aircraft or a modified B-1 lancer

People like to do support roles. Hence why EW is so popular

[fiery osprey]

B-1 style (B-11) would be cool but I feel like it would be too big to store underneath the carrier deck

[sage leaf]

the humble A5

[fiery osprey]

Currently winning the “most space on carrier deck” competition

https://planehistoria.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/F-8-Crusaders-A-4-Skyhawks-F-4-Phantoms-and-A-5-Vigilantes-squeezed-into-the-USS-Enterprise-CVN-65-1024x710.jpg

Somehow still fit below

[winged roost]

A-5 is SEX

[fiery osprey]

Height of 5.91 m (19’ 4.75”) tho

Which compared to the B-1’s 10.4m (34’) is nothing

Definitely no room

Also 190,000 kg 💀

[zealous barn]

cough cough Emissary cough cough

[charred osprey]

Or the other guy with a tag I can’t pronounce.

[zealous barn]

obo?

[zealous barn]

ngl if those 4-5 people would restrain themselves from commenting on these posts, half the messages would be gone

[charred osprey]

Tru

[zealous barn]

also probably a lot of downvotes, people see them spew negative shit and just go with them

[charred osprey]

Wouldn’t surprise me

[zealous barn]

then maybe we would actually have a diverse fleet of aircraft that aren't all just for PvP

[charred osprey]

There are specialized aircraft for a reason

[zealous barn]

Yes, but most of them (with the exception of the 94) can accomplish the same basic set of tasks with only a few exclusive things (like the jammer on the 24) that only one aircraft can do

[charred osprey]

Exactly. Why have a dozen multirole aircraft that can do the same thing as opposed to a fleet of F/A-26s doing the same

Hell, even the 26 and 55 get jamming capabilities

[zealous barn]

THIS

[zealous barn]

yeah, like why even make a jammer aircraft if its only advantages are more jam targets and low band jamming

[charred osprey]

Yea

[zealous barn]

just use a 45 at that point

[charred osprey]

There’s a reason the F-18 super hornet is different from the F-18 Growler

[cobalt storm]

Yeah bro hates any new idea, some can be hated like 45 VCAP but not all should be

[charred osprey]

Yea

I will always be an advocate for specialization. Especially in games like this. Many people being different pieces of a puzzle and it all coming together is just so satisfying.

[cobalt storm]

Again in my opinion, have the ability to shove a ASW kit in the bomb bay, and make it a strike fighter, problem solved

[charred osprey]

My A-12 suggestion

[cobalt storm]

Oh and make it supersonic

[zealous barn]

exactly this. Not every aircraft has to be multirole. Let me put a gigantic ass microwave on a barge of a plane. I don't care if I'm a "sitting duck" in PVP

[cobalt storm]

Some of my homies might not like my ideas but all my homies hate emissary

[zealous barn]

yknow it's kinda funny that a lot of his argument is the "sitting duck" thing

[charred osprey]

Yea. Makes no sense imo. It’s supposed to be a back line support unit. Not a front line assault

[cobalt storm]

Yet that is what his favorite plane the ef24 does at high speed and you turn

[charred osprey]

Fax

https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1299136792875761726

I made this a HOT while ago

[zealous barn]

I upvoted that suggestion a while ago

[cobalt storm]

I had a idea for a air supperiorty fighter idea that had no tpod but every thought it was absurd because that's too many hard points and "a 26 can do that just don't carry the tpod" cough cough emissary

[zealous barn]

yknow what's funny is people like emissary hate on back line units but I've been in F16/A10 missions where that exact scenario plays out and it's a great experience

[charred osprey]

Don’t need a printer here because I’ll I have is fax

[zealous barn]

lol

I just wish there were more good plane mods, and just better mod support in general

[charred osprey]

Yea

[zealous barn]

we wouldn't have to ask baha for shit

[charred osprey]

It’s just hard to make original craft mods for vtol. The A-10 and F-16 took months if not years to develop

[zealous barn]

not to mention you don't make any money off of them, that's one of the reasons DCS has so many high fidelity planes

[charred osprey]

Exactomungo

[zealous barn]

even though they take a long time to make

[zealous barn]

would pay $100 for a 757 in VTOL 😭

[charred osprey]

lol. Give me a C-5

[zealous barn]

give me any bigger aircraft honestly

[charred osprey]

Or AC-130. HANG ON (shameless self plug) I’m helping to work on an indie AC-130 VR game “angel of death” hence my callsign.

[zealous barn]

I've seen that game, one of my friends has an access code and im lowk jealous

[charred osprey]

I can get you in the discord if ya want

You’ll find a demo

[zealous barn]

sure, why not lol

[zealous barn]

gimme a C17

or a C-40

Or a KC-10

anything atp

doesn't even have to be military lol

boeing 727 mod when

[winged roost]

A 727 tanker would be cool

[charred osprey]

BIG PLENE

[zealous barn]

definitely, I love the 727's cockpit and layout

[fiery osprey]

I do know of some in the works that’ll be pretty awesome. Can’t say much more than that tho

[vernal hornet]

Im not generally opposed to bomber posts, so i doubt its me (unless u dont mean me)

[zealous barn]

probably not you, he never specified

[zealous barn]

107/119, we're catching up, only 12 vote deficit now

[latent stump]

The commoners do not understand what they are voting against. The r*formers have an agenda against us.

[zealous barn]

Yeah...

[fiery osprey]

It’s been pretty consistent at a 12 vote deficit

But that won’t stop me from learning to mod

[vernal latch]

yeah tbh I dont see this getting into base game for a few reasons

but it would definitely fit well as a mod

[latent stump]

I do hope we get a dedicated bomber someday that fills the same niche.

I think an F-111 like aircraft would be the coolest idea but that's just me.

Watch us get a B2 bomber instead.

Or some weird tailless design for a carrier.

[fiery osprey]

B-2/B-21 style would be interesting, but good luck fitting that on a carrier

https://preview.redd.it/someone-had-to-do-it-carrier-capable-b2-v0-3t7fk1l0i0sb1.png?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=55cf71fd568381b95d01780c51b99e2f4a4a5998

B-2 stealth bombers as AI units would be hype tho

https://discord.com/channels/319915885575798785/1245450874797686866

[winged roost]

Baha could just repurpose the AI B-2 from JBR

[zealous barn]

wish I knew how to model lol

[fiery osprey]

Same

But I’ll work on that

[zealous barn]

I wish FlyOut could export things aswell, would be so much easier

[fiery osprey]

SAME. MY GOD.

Even SimplePlanes can export plane models

[zealous barn]

yknow what, we need to get the big MSFS/X-Plane creators to make planes for this game, they could sell them and turn a profit and we get new AND \good planes

I'm sure Aerosoft would find a way to put their CRJ in VTOL lmao

[fiery osprey]

Paid mod bad

[vernal latch]

baha would not be a fan of that lmao

[zealous barn]

no he would not

[vernal latch]

especially considering how much of each custom aircraft's work was already done by baha

[zealous barn]

unfortunate sacrifice sometimes (also piracy)

[vernal latch]

Dont get me wrong it still takes a while to make them but baha already did 90% of the work so it'll be wild if you can sell mods for even like 5-10 bucks

[zealous barn]

I mean, can you not code your own aircraft without using Baha's stuff? I've seen custom switches but never custom MFDs

[vernal latch]

Yeah aircraft mods still tend to have a bunch of custom stuff in them

but redoing all the stuff that's already in the base game is an incredibly tall order

[zealous barn]

like I said, team of 20 people working on it with pay would make that go quick as fuck lol

[vernal latch]

Yeah you can swap images, change the colors, and maybe add one or two pages yourself

but aint no one gonna redo pages from scratch unless it absolutely demands it

[winged roost]

Man, it's almost like if the tools to make custom aircraft were a part of the base game we'd see a lot more cool shit

[vernal latch]

Making custom aircraft is essentially as easy as ever now

[zealous barn]

teach me how do this, I beg of you

[vernal latch]

there's like 3-4 people with near zero programming/unity experience that have made significant-ish progress on their aircraft

[winged roost]

The main issue for me at least is no time and no incentive / motivation

[vernal latch]

nah aint got time for all tha

There's a bunch of resources in the modding server

[zealous barn]

I have a VTOL instance in unity

[vernal latch]

https://tenor.com/view/buzz-lightyear-gif-21327280

[zealous barn]

lmao

[vernal latch]

caveat is some of them high-key getting carried by danku but he's just himothy

[fiery osprey]

Having seen him work, yeah

[fiery osprey]

Also that’s the thread where they say that lol

[vernal latch]

and also nearly impossible cause at some point all your custom scripts has to interact with the base game at some point

[zealous barn]

and this is where a dev SDK would come in handy right about now

[vernal latch]

there sorta already is

vtol already has built-in scripts to import custom aircraft from assetbundles

and with modding you have practically access to the entire code base

SDKs are for situations where the devs only want makers to have access to certain parts of the code-base

which is why SDK's are a big for something like DCS cause you need it to actually gain access to the parts that the developers deem safe/needed to access for module making

while keeping other parts still obuscated for a mix of practical/IP protection reasons

A more apt comparison would be that the dev for Tiny Combat Arena has added custom aircraft/weapon support coupled with a unity package that includes all the stuff you need to make the relatively simple aircraft in that game

but the mild problem with that is that it becomes much more difficult to implement your own stuff because you're essentially locked to only using base-game scripts

not a huge issue for a game like TCA, where all their aircraft are relatively shrimple

but for custom aircraft in vtol it wont work as well cause modmakers tend to add in their own stuff that requires some custom scripting

which afaik isn't as viable to achieve with creating a unity package/native support for custom aircraft

although if there's one more thing baha can potentially do to make modding aircraft that much easier, it would be to send us all dem shaders

danku did god's work by figuring out a way to remake them (he explained how he did it but it's still witch craft to me)

but sadly there's some shaders that weren't able to be perfectly converted so they tend to have issues in game

there's also a bunch of other things to say about this topic but it would take an essay to go over them all so I'll leave it at that lol

[zealous barn]

I see. Would something like the Roblox game maker thingy (forgot what it's called) work? Like there are prefabs that you could make an entire aircraft out of, but you can also introduce your own models and code?

[vernal latch]

hypothetically yeah but it's a whole lotta work to introduce something that's essentially gives the same stuff as a unity rip of vtol

prolly less stuff actually

[zealous barn]

No I mean like a plane editor. Basically the same as a Unity rip + Blender, you can set different (separated) parts of the model as like flaps or something, specify a rotation point, and boom, no code moving/interactable (set as switch maybe?) parts

[vernal latch]

idk about + blender

are you talking about like a flyout system where you make the model in-engine?

[zealous barn]

kind of, you can animate and code its function in-engine but you have to supply your own models

[vernal latch]

yeah the whole idea just isn't practical tbh and Mr. D doesn't have much incentive to do it

a good ol fashioned unity rip is more than good enough to pump out a decent custom aircraft

[zealous barn]

ah, alright

[flint stump]

My fav abandonware

[zealous barn]

if only Stone would actually work on his project 🥀

[flint stump]

Bug fixes when

Why does a 50 tonne aircraft bounce like that on spawn

[zealous barn]

IKR? and the weird symmetry bug desperately needs to be fixed

[winged roost]

FlyOut works fine for me??? Skill issue

[flint stump]

Yes

[zealous barn]

sometimes with the procedural fuselage pieces, different loops will connect to each other in the wrong place, so something like point 16 in loop 1 connecting to point 17 in loop 2, and it's super annoying because it happens way too frequently

[raw tiger]

Msfs so funny

[fiery osprey]

T’is

[latent stump]

Only slightly less wingspan than the F/A-26B

[rose pine]

they didnt even try on that wingfold 😭

[zealous barn]

well you can only really fold a part that doesn't have fuel in it lol

[fiery osprey]

A6M2 folding wings lmao

[cobalt storm]

At that point just don't fold them

[cobalt storm]

A5 my beloved

[tired creek]

space is at a premium, you want every feet you can get

[fiery osprey]

110 upvotes!

Can we hit the glorious 111?

[vivid tiger]

done!

[zealous barn]

lets goo

only 10 down now

[latent stump]

It’s a sign.

[zealous barn]

just wait until we can overtake the haters

[fiery osprey]

That would be a glorious day

[craggy bison]

When we doth o'ertake the ill votes with fair ones, it shall be a wondrous day indeed.

[zealous barn]

116/122, we're catching up

[charred osprey]

GIVE ME AN AARDVARK OR GIVE ME DEATH

[crude sinew]

call the suicide hotline

[charred osprey]

Nah

[tired creek]

Pipebomb it is then😁

[flint stump]

Ted is that you

[zealous barn]

nah just pay C137 to make one lol

[charred osprey]

lol

[zealous barn]

or we could all learn how to code lol

[fiery osprey]

As much as I would, nah

I’ll do it myself

[zealous barn]

start a gofundme, you don't have to pay up lol

[fiery osprey]

Fr tho as a first (or more likely second) plane mod, it would be fun to learn

[zealous barn]

only problem is modeling it

[fiery osprey]

Yes

[zealous barn]

you could get joe to model it lol

[fiery osprey]

Maybe… but also I kinda wanna do it, it’d be fun

(I wish to suffer )

[zealous barn]

if you use orthographic side, front, top, and back views of your FlyOut model, you should be able to follow it reasonably well

just trace ig

[fiery osprey]

Yerp

[zealous barn]

only 6 down!

[craggy bison]

hold strong believers

[light oracle]

WE MUST PERSEVERE

[bright kite]

Major spelling blunder.

[light oracle]

FUCK

I FIXED IT

BUT THE POINT STIL STANS

STANDS

I AM DONE TALKING SINCE I CANT SPEEL

SPELL

[fiery osprey]

This is actually the closest it’s ever been, ty all!

[stoic skiff]

Do not bump this thread

[cobalt storm]

Chase doing our job for us

[stoic skiff]

Well if this thread gets bumped anymore ima lock it so

[red garnet]

bump

[light oracle]

QUIET, YOU ARE A HATER

I WILL BUMP TILL I CANT BUMP NO MORE

I WILL BUMP TILL I AM DRY

PAUSE

[cobalt storm]

THEY'RE TRYING TO SILENCE US

[sterile mirage]

I think you guys missed that toast saying bump wasn't a good thing for this feature request 😈

[light oracle]

WE NEED THIS AIRCRAFT

THE COMMUNISTS OF VTOL VR WONT STOP US

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-braveheart-cheer-battle-cry-war-cry-gif-19285838

[red garnet]

we?

[fiery osprey]

Anyways yeah don’t say anything unless y’all are actively working on modeling this lol

I'd like to continue sharing progress after all.

[fiery osprey]

However, I will leave it at this:

If you’re coming into this with a PVP mindset, this aircraft isn’t for you (it’d probably (rightfully) be left out of PVP lobbies)

[light oracle]

I suck at modeling so it's taking me a while

I don't blender as much as I should

[cobalt storm]

Nah make throw it in pvp lobbies it'll be funny

[latent stump]

Throw it in the PvP lobbies because the PvP lobbies are too brain dead to comprehend the idea that they should not use certain things in PvP so they can come here and complain when they get their shit pushed in.

I will kill many F-111.

And they will be here to whine that it must be given AIM-120s and a TSD or something.

-# I'm all for challenging yourself with a shit aircraft but as evidenced by putting a handful of F-45A in a lobby with mostly F/A-26B all you're going to do is bully all but the higher skilled players who know how to abuse F-45A players being

[fiery osprey]

Don’t worry, so am I. I’m learning Blender for this

But that’s more modding server talk than anything

[charred osprey]

7 more babbby

[stoic skiff]

Stop bumping this thread

Well next time it happens it’s being locked

[charred osprey]

Nyet

[charred osprey]

Why tho

[stoic skiff]

Because it’s against the rules and y’all have been warned already

[charred osprey]

Ok daaaaad

[vivid tiger]

@fiery osprey Could you make a theorised weapons list for this aircraft?

Additionally, what sort of displays would the cockpit have to differentiate the pilots gameplay loop from the copilot / ч WSO

[fiery osprey]

Dedicated scope for sure for TV stuff

As for weapons, check the FAQ under the post

[vivid tiger]

Thankyou!

[fiery osprey]

Yw!

120 upvotes too, thanks y’all who enjoyed this

[zealous barn]

@fiery osprey since this is already going to have arguably the worst visibility in the game, and I feel like relying on just the HUD is kinda stupid (which, in the original 111, was extremely primitive), it would be kind of nice to have the instrumentation be less of an afterthought than all of the other aircraft. From what I've seen of the 4th gen fighters of VTOL, the instruments are small, cramped, and hard to read (especially in the 55)

[fiery osprey]

In terms of cockpit design, I think something like one of these would be best. (Almost no MFDs)

[zealous barn]

exactly. I love having those big ass instruments sitting directly in front of you where you can actually see them

[fiery osprey]

Relying on a HUD won't be something you'd mainly do, but would be good for effective targeting

Tho a HMCS would also help with that too

[zealous barn]

what about removing the HMCS?

I mean if this is really supposed to be earlier in cockpit design than the other planes, and it's already supposed to be a bitch to fly, why not?

[fiery osprey]

Possibly

[zealous barn]

little timmy would have an aneurism

[fiery osprey]

That is true, especially if the F-22 didn't even get an HMCS until recently lol

LMAO

"Why can't I see anything???"

[zealous barn]

removing the HMCS would also make it more of a WSO thing to do targeting pod shit

[fiery osprey]

This is giving me a lot to consider... I'll think about it

[zealous barn]

the thing about relying on the HUD aswell... from what I've seen, it barely had a gunsight on the early versions

maybe dumb it down just a tinge so you can't rely on it entirely?

[fiery osprey]

Like having a permament 1-level declutter?

[zealous barn]

kind of, yeah. No speed readout, no alt, no vert speed, just your weapon stuff and an HSI

not an hsi

[fiery osprey]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRdd-7VMmdwkn-IMTrGHPnuId_cNv-YVlguQ&s

[zealous barn]

*artificial horizon

[fiery osprey]

Absolutely tiny HUD as well holee

[zealous barn]

yuuup

[fiery osprey]

https://preview.redd.it/how-does-the-f-111-s-ring-ccrp-hud-work-v0-ujqn5hmrut9e1.png?auto=webp&s=abd764978f12acb27c523c0cb1f21fb66497be6a

[zealous barn]

that

[fiery osprey]

I wonder if something like this would even be possible in VTOL's system

[zealous barn]

I mean people have made HUD mods, I assume it would

again, it would probably be up to PIC to control their aircraft, to not rely on the HUD and instead use the goddamn instruments in front of you

absolutely tiny lmao

[fiery osprey]

Especially compared to modern ones!