🤔｜theories

[delicate atlas]

Maybe they extracted her memories and sacrifice said memories to the lake?

Here we can see black cubes floating around her

And her memories where all over the island

[azure bay]

for some weird reason they weren't just lying around

[delicate atlas]

Like paradise was the prototype for the white door and Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow's plans and techniques in the mill

[azure bay]

the most of them were kept in safety

[delicate atlas]

Yeah I personally think Caroline did that herself

Protecting her core memories and showing them in a particular order to Jacob on purpose

So he'd continue her research on the elixir

Her cs was also there to guide him

[azure bay]

Gerard had access to 2 of them

he got a key for one chest

and combination for the other

[delicate atlas]

Are you saying that guy was on her side?

[azure bay]

I'm not saying anything

just facts

[delicate atlas]

Interesting

[azure bay]

I think we need to recall all the cubes hiding locations

[delicate atlas]

Coffin
Tower
Inside tower
Cave
Well
Lake on boat

The toilet one probably has something with it being close to that secret cave

[azure bay]

I think it was just a visual trick

they are incorporating the memories in the surroundings

[delicate atlas]

Oh yeah

[azure bay]

1 - the coffin
2 - a chest (Gerard had a key)
3 - Caroline's shrine
4 - Nicolas
5 - toilet?
6 - another chest (Gerard had a combination)
7 - Under the temple's roof
8 - In a boat (brought by Margaret)
9 - Caroline's bones?
10 - Caroline's cecret stash

Who installs a shrine before a secret door?

[sage token]

Dungeon Masters probably

[azure bay]

I wonder what is the purpose of the tower

hmm

[delicate atlas]

Yeah it always seemed suspicious to me

Screams cult rituals and torture

[azure bay]

it was an observatory, a watch and signal tower and Nicolas was thumping the drum there

[azure bay]

how so?

[delicate atlas]

🗿

The drum thing feels like a cult ritual

[azure bay]

that has nothing to do with the tower itself, it seems

[delicate atlas]

More the purpose the family uses it for

Also it had a secret door

And upon opening it you gain access to the second floor

The floor in question

Iirc in the dark plague, there's that owl shaped thing that gets instructions to come to shore by fire signals

Kinda like mr. Crow and his boat in case 23 chapter 4

Might be a call back for that

Or a secret code

[azure bay]

that puzzle doesn't really make sense to me

[delicate atlas]

Yeah me neither

What was up with the lake that day

No swimming allowed? /j

I guess they just wanted a last puzzle to introduce that thing

[azure bay]

Another big question of Paradise are the plagues

what did cause them?

how often they occur?

[fast vortex]

Plagues?

[sage token]

My impression was that the Lake caused them idk

[azure bay]

but for what reason?

[fast vortex]

Plagues were called because of the wrong sacrifice

The original victim was supposed to be Jacob, but Carolina went to the victim

[sage token]

"hey you people on the island look at me. boo! gimme cubes" 🤷‍♀️

[late canyon]

Probably Caroline wasn't a firstborn but lied about it for Jacob to be spared

[azure bay]

why are you so sure?

[azure bay]

I don't think any firstborn would do

[fast vortex]

In the winter execution, we see Carolina's memory, how Jacob was already ready for the sacrifice, but Carolina saved him

[late canyon]

So you mean the sacrifice has to be born on Paradise island?

[fast vortex]

Even in the memoirs of Karolina, we can see that Nicholas was preparing Jacob for the sacrifice

By the way, these plagues are 10 Egyptian plagues

[azure bay]

I know what we see. Why does it mean her sacrifice caused the plagues?

[fast vortex]

The lake did not accept such a sacrifice

Gotta think why

[azure bay]

wouldn't it be enough just not to enlighten Eilanders?

[fast vortex]

ok i have a guess

It seems to me that the first-born of the Lady of the Lake should have been sacrificed, so far I can provide only one argument that Caroline Eilander is the Lady of the Lake

In Case 23 we see a painting of the Lady of the Lake, the woman in this painting is identical to Caroline Eilander

In this case another question arises.

[azure bay]

what does it mean to be the lady of the lake?

[fast vortex]

Why didn't the victim accept the lady of the lake

[fast vortex]

I need time to reply)

[delicate atlas]

That's why I think Caroline had some special powers over the lake

That's why the lake gets upset when she dies

Jacob being her son is her successor

There should be always a keepr of the lake

[fast vortex]

She knew too much to go down the wheel of samsara)))

[delicate atlas]

Jacob now is choosing dale as his successor and preparing him for it

[delicate atlas]

Oh yeah her cs was kinda conscious/intelligent

[azure bay]

do you know that Laura is also the lady of the lake?

idk how

but that's what the devs said in august

[fast vortex]

...)

[fast vortex]

Yes, I know

If you think about it, then Rose is the lady of the lake, since she gave only her own blood as a sacrifice for William's rebirth.

[floral mauve]

did they say that?

[azure bay]

nah, no evidence of that

[azure bay]

at least according to testimonies we shared

[floral mauve]

if u say it in that way, every female beings live around the lake can be lady of the lake

[fast vortex]

no, but this topic for conversation is not very disclosed, it is very difficult)

[azure bay]

well, there's such theory

but I hate it

[floral mauve]

everyone would hate it

[azure bay]

1st and foremost it's based on an assumption that the title of the lady is inherited through blood lines

[floral mauve]

because lady of the lake sounds like a title that is similar to ruler of the lake

perhaps its the synonym for ruler of the lake

[azure bay]

How's Laura a ruler?

[floral mauve]

well

as we discussed

if the universe rewrites itself

she becomes dale

Dale hanged himself

she would be the next ruler of the lake

[azure bay]

I think the ruler role or title is a factual one

and the one of the lady means something different

[floral mauve]

well perhaps it the female name for ruler and in a nice way

Just like Caroline

[azure bay]

Laura isn't the ruler but she's still the lady

that's the problem

[floral mauve]

.

she might be the ruler

a candidate

idk

[azure bay]

I get it

[floral mauve]

I am trying to link her to the lake stuff

[azure bay]

but that doesn't follow the logic

[floral mauve]

I dont see any better explanations

from Caroline, she is basically the ruler

pheasant....

idk

[azure bay]

you statement is "Lady = ruler"

[floral mauve]

yes

[azure bay]

dev's statement is "Laura = lady"

[floral mauve]

yes

[floral mauve]

the title is not given by the lake I think

there must be someone call her first

like ppl near the village

[azure bay]

the reality is "Laura ≠ ruler"

there's a contradiction

[azure bay]

'is' is a key word

'is', not 'will be'

[floral mauve]

I am trying to explain how she can be the lady

just saying I dont see much other options

fate related to the lake development?

employee of the year

get awarded title

lady of the lake

jk

[azure bay]

what I'm saying, Laura is the lady but could be the ruler

therefore, the titles don't mean the same thing

[floral mauve]

I know

I know what u mean

I just dont know what else to explain

[azure bay]

that's the reality

sometimes "I don't know" is the best answer

it's at least sincere

[floral mauve]

bruh

[azure bay]

admitting being confused is a virtue of a rationalist

I'm personally confused as hell

[fast vortex]

Okay, roughly speaking, it is

Lady of the Lake is a title passed down from generation to generation.

[floral mauve]

that would be a strange way of passing unless

yes

[fast vortex]

and I have a theory that after Caroline's death, Elizabeth became the Lady of the Lake.

[floral mauve]

I see that as a link between Eilander and Vanderboom

that would explain the pheasant fetus theory

[fast vortex]

Yes, first of all, their appearance

[floral mauve]

wha

what appearance

[fast vortex]

Wait a minute

[azure bay]

which can be explained by being drawn by literally the same artist

[fast vortex]

I don't think it's because of this

Rose Wonderboom looks a lot like Elizabeth

Nicholas looks like William

[floral mauve]

?

I dont like where this is going

[azure bay]

Rose first and foremost looks like Ida

and Ida isn't related to Eilanders

[floral mauve]

well

i had a theory before

Ida, Mary and Caroline are related

they are from the same village or even relatives

[azure bay]

could you please underline the exact points of similarity?

for example, Jacob and Nicolas share the head shape

[fast vortex]

A few minutes

[azure bay]

Dale and his father have the same noses and eyes

[half elm]

the only connection i see is the red hair

[azure bay]

but at the same time share the nose with Bob

[fast vortex]

Because it's a son and a father

[azure bay]

yeah

that was an example

[floral mauve]

yep

[azure bay]

can you bring up the same for Nicolas-William?

[floral mauve]

thats how I made my theory

[half elm]

red hair only occurs in 1-2% of the population, so for several characters in different families to have it is. interesting

[floral mauve]

relatives

[floral mauve]

for me its the same artist

or art style

nothing to do with the actual character

[azure bay]

and different head shapes, eyes, ears and slightly different noses

[fast vortex]

Without the beard, William looks VERY similar to Nicholas

[azure bay]

I disagree

[floral mauve]

I see no point of arguing in this topic

[half elm]

I could see the Eilanders being distant relatives to Ida (?) There are red hair genes going on there, which might've passed down onto Ida.
So if the Lady of the Lake title is passed down, it would make Ida that -> also kinda explaning why it was her destiny to join the family
^ and in turn explain why Laura is the Lady of the Lake... as well as Rose??

[floral mauve]

you need much stronger evidence in order to link two characters

rather than art style appearance

[floral mauve]

I see Caroline from a village near the lake so is Mary and Ida

so they can be relatives since relatives in villages are quite common

[fast vortex]

What is a village?

[floral mauve]

or town

[fast vortex]

Such an argument

[half elm]

yep! rusty lake is a pretty small place as well. so it would make sense for them all to be related

[floral mauve]

plus

if someone is given by the title such as Lady of the lake

there must be someone call her by it

[azure bay]

Ida is a wandering fortune teller

[floral mauve]

that as well

[azure bay]

she has no way being related to any of them

[floral mauve]

thats why I am not so sure of Ida

[half elm]

well, it doesn't say where she is from

she could simply come from rusty lake, wander the world and then return

[floral mauve]

I would say rather than wandering

she seeks for vanderbooms

[azure bay]

too many coincidences for my liking

[half elm]

or have relatives from rusty lake. it is a...strange place to want to do fortune telling

[floral mauve]

otherwise why would she comes to a mountainous area

[azure bay]

she looks like a gypsy

[floral mauve]

omg

same thought

[half elm]

w/ her being a fortune teller and everything - and an accurate at that, it seems like it was her destiny to return to rusty lake

[floral mauve]

but I try not to make stereotypes

[half elm]

she does have a few connections to romani culture - and it was around this time many emigrated to america. her family could have done that
i see no reason to believe she has zero connection with rusty lake. like why was it specifically her that had the destiny to marry into the family?

[floral mauve]

we dont know if RL is located in us

[half elm]

true. but most likely,
there were a lot of people emigrating into other countries as well so it doesn't really matter - it was just that america was the most popular place

[floral mauve]

em.

I will leave this topic to nowhere @azure bay

I am not good at history of migration or architecture

[half elm]

no worries not me either 😭 i'm just having different articles up on the side

[floral mauve]

I mean

[fast vortex]

Okay, I'll try to argue another theory that the Vanderbooms are descendants of the Eilanders, let's say that after the death of Carolina, Elizabeth became the lady of the lake, and after all that happened, she got married, and took her husband's surname, this is quite possible, given the fact that at the time the events of Paradise (1796) began, Elizabeth was ≈ 16 - 18 years old, and at the time of the beginning of the roots (1860), Oldus and William ≈ 40+ years, actually, 1860-1796=62 years, this time should be enough to raise and raise triplets

[floral mauve]

it is possible that Dale and Bob are in US

especially Bob is confirmed

to be in nyc

[floral mauve]

u arent so far away from it

thats quite interesting

nowhere, u see

[azure bay]

it's not a theory, It's a series of assumptions with little to no evidence. If you want to prove relation between Eilander and Vanderbooms you need to take a different approach

[floral mauve]

indeed

simple math with no evidence is not we want

[azure bay]

but even then it wouldn't mean that the title is passed through generations

[floral mauve]

it would be fan fic

[azure bay]

the 1st and biggest assumption is that Elisabeth wasn't reborn right away after the ritual

[floral mauve]

if you add more in game details into this theory, it will be nice

[azure bay]

there's no indication in Hotel that the guests even remember their past lives

[fast vortex]

Why shouldn't they remember their past lives?

[floral mauve]

then they would talk as close family

[azure bay]

because the majority of them don't act like their former selves

[floral mauve]

apparently we dont see any in game communication between each guest

[half elm]

but anyways, my theory:

the "lady of the lake" title seems to be passed down to the oldest woman in the family - not confirmed, but it's seems to be very likely! if it's not that, whoever has the greatest importance (caroline, laura)

if it's the passing down case...well, that'd make elizabeth the one after caroline's death. and for laura to be the latest successor, the vanderbooms have to be related to the eilanders. and currently, the only gene thing thing connecting them is the ginger hair. which is a rare thing in real life - so for there to be so many gingers in rusty lake. there has to be a reason??

i could see it this way: elizabeth has ginger hair. she, or another family member got a girl, who in turn became the lady of the lake after elizabeth's death. and after some years, ida was born and got the title. and as the vanderbooms have some sort of importance to the lake, the title had to be passed down there. which is why her destiny was to marry into the family. which is how laura became the lady of the lake

but it does kinda weird when you take the reborn thing into consideration - would it even possible for them to have kids? or did someone else in the family, not there, pass it on?

[fast vortex]

Then how do you think they should behave?

[azure bay]

like the lake cultists? Or at least timid Elisabeth could find a different occupation

[floral mauve]

wanna see a mind blown theory? The hair is not the only evidence linking Eilander and Vanderboom

[half elm]

yes pls

[floral mauve]

start from here

@half elm

[half elm]

OH

I SEE...

[azure bay]

bare in mind that it's not confirmed yet

[floral mauve]

but its giant brain

u get the award

[azure bay]

*a guy from Reddit gets it

[floral mauve]

sh

[azure bay]

and it DEFINITELY doesn't mean that the lady title is passed through generations

[half elm]

i can see def see that. even the timing is good (william just born a few years after)

[floral mauve]

thats the best theory I have heard in one year

[fast vortex]

Okay, I have two arguments that Rosa is the lady of the lake.

[half elm]

also we do know that rusty lake women can just get babies out of no where. so there is not a must for another party for elizabeth to get a baby

[fast vortex]

Let's start with the fact that the ladies of the lake acquire certain abilities, which ones - I can't say

And let's start with the fact that Rosa can communicate with corrupted souls, this was shown in the first level for Rosa, where she communicated with William

[azure bay]

ehm

I have 2 things to counter that

[fast vortex]

And the second mini argument - she was present in the samsara room with Laura in Samsara Room

[floral mauve]

well Rose is a different breed

her mom is a fortune teller or prophet, her dad is a voodoo sorcerer

[azure bay]

1. she used a Ouija board. Using it isn't supposed to be supernatural on it's own
2. if she even has powers they may come, once again, from Ida

[azure bay]

I'm rather taking it for William's soul seeing the future

[fast vortex]

I have another argument that Rosa is the lady of the lake.

Let's remember the cube escape theater, a performance with the lady of the lake (the very first lady of the lake)

She asks us to balance the substances of her past lives, here we see the fruit that we saw in the Roots, or rather the Rose

[floral mauve]

...

[azure bay]

too vague. and doesn't explain its another appearance

in Case 23

this fetus drowned in ink and turned into a heart

you need to explain this as well

(I have an explanation, but you may propose a good alternative)

[fast vortex]

about the heart I have my own theory, I assume that the heart is Laura, because the heart of William was present in the rebirth of William into Laura

[azure bay]

and another question

what does it have to do with the songstress?

it's her past life substance

[fast vortex]

Theater is essentially Dale's imagination

[azure bay]

the songstress is real

I mean

she exists

[fast vortex]

Why?

[azure bay]

and either she or her show is called The Lady of The Lake

[azure bay]

The White Door

There were posters

there was her show

[fast vortex]

On account of this, I can say that it’s hard to say anything about this, Bob has mental disorders, I can say the same about the club in which he was, where he saw assur

[azure bay]

dude, these were his memories. They were important for Mr. Owl

he lost them and TWD therapy was returning them

[floral mauve]

and its an objective evidence

poster in Owl Nest

[azure bay]

he questions the reality of all Bob's dreams

[floral mauve]

then that would be pointless of twd

plus Owl said it in the computer

about his memories

[azure bay]

that's what I am referring to

[fast vortex]

I said everything about Bob, at least my body

[azure bay]

for this case, I'm not agreeing to disagree

you either need to convince me or be convinced

there is no evidence (like at all) strong enough to prove the title passing through blood lines

it's possible

but it requires a ton of assumptions

[fast vortex]

you have your theories, I have mine, I see no reason to convince a person in his theory when he already adheres to his theories, it is almost impossible to convince a person

Rusty Lake continues to release its games, on the new game about Albert I think a lot more will be said about it than now

[azure bay]

I share this view most of the time, I'm generally a relativist. Your vision relies on your interpretations of evidence. Specifically here, there is no evidence to interpret. As soon as they appear I may change my mind. In that case you will be right but for a wrong reason

[fast vortex]

I needed someone to utter my theories) thanks for listening anyway

[azure bay]

are you interested in a different interpretation of the fetus and the heart?

[fast vortex]

I don't think I've already expressed my point of view on these subjects

[azure bay]

I mean, there is one. And Igrarium was inspired by it at the time

[fast vortex]

To be honest, based on his theories, I completely agree with him about his theories

[azure bay]

I'm mostly disagree

he aint theorist

he's a storyteller

he doesn't care if his stories are based on evidence

he doesn't care to discuss them

he cares only about making sensation and likes

hell

he doesn't even care about Rusty Lake

[fast vortex]

I do not think so

[azure bay]

a single unpopular video and he dropped the topic

[fast vortex]

Your opinion

[floral mauve]

I am interested in the paradise talk u guys had earlier today

according to the ritual

you have kill the one you wanna sacrifice first, which is most likely through burning and then you throw the corpse or whatever is left in the lake

I dont see the hazard of the 10th plague tbh

[azure bay]

the last is a bit debatable. We find Caroline's bones elsewhere

they may have been moved there later but still\

[floral mauve]

well I think its fair enough, since they can gather some bone dusts

and wooden coffin underwater wont preserve those bone dust right?

[azure bay]

ehm

I don't get your problem

[floral mauve]

wha

[azure bay]

the bones were intact in the crate

[floral mauve]

yes

[azure bay]

only after we grind them into dust

but before that they would probably be as good in the coffin

[floral mauve]

tbh

yes

I know

but I am amazed that the bones are still white colour

if the victim was burnt to death

its yellowish dark

and fragile

[azure bay]

RL aren't always accurate in details

[floral mauve]

I know

but still, if u burn the corpse its just hard to gather the bones back in shape like that especially if u dump it in the lake afterwards

which is indeed a confusing step of the cult

[azure bay]

I don't get why

[floral mauve]

its just weird

plus why would they preserve the bones

in some random crate

what if its just symbolism or made of chalk

idk

[azure bay]

I guess, it's overthinking

[floral mauve]

I mean I understand that they dump the bones within the coffin

to show lake their sacrifice

[azure bay]

the bones are just there and there's no explicit need to rationalize them

[floral mauve]

and the first scene could be lake absorbed Caroline

[floral mauve]

alright

also

was the whole point of the ten plagues is to give Eilanders the second chance of made up their mistake of sacrificing the wrong person

[azure bay]

I tend to think that the plagues were there before

[floral mauve]

then why it got triggered exactly after Caroline was falsely sacrificed

was it the timing?

the glorious day of the lake

[azure bay]

after doesn't mean because of

[floral mauve]

plus

the tenth plague

how do you explain that

[azure bay]

what exactly requires explanation?

[floral mauve]

its not even a plague

it looks like a normal life

with some ritual steps

[fast vortex]

normal life - burning one of the family members?)

[floral mauve]

yes

but thats not plague

[fast vortex]

[azure bay]

He tries to say that the plague wasn't performed by the lake

[floral mauve]

its intentionally

[azure bay]

but rather by the cultists

[floral mauve]

nah

I am just saying

the tenth one is not some natural factor involved

[fast vortex]

This needed to end

[floral mauve]

I am trying to make sense of this

[azure bay]

the sense I see

it's a part of the ritual

[floral mauve]

I thought u mean the plagues is a seasonal stuff

[fast vortex]

Sense - exit from the wheel of samsara

[floral mauve]

then I will be right

[azure bay]

why can't be both?

[floral mauve]

bruh

so it would be 9 plagues

[azure bay]

the ritual can be performed on certain conditions

[floral mauve]

10th plague is just the opprtunity of gaining enlightenemnt

[azure bay]

technically yeah

[floral mauve]

alright

so

if they didnt sacrifice Caroline in a parallel universe

but Jakob

first time

they would still have 9 plagues?

[azure bay]

I guess

[fast vortex]

they wouldn't get executed

[floral mauve]

but this time they can probably solve it under the guide of caroline

[floral mauve]

wha

according to the previous discussion we are having

[fast vortex]

If they hadn't burned Carolina, there would have been no plagues

[floral mauve]

the sacrifice of the wrong person is not necessarily the cause

of the plague

[azure bay]

The thing I don't like in this, you are so sure about it for no reason

[floral mauve]

then why there are ancient paintings about plagues

did they also become dum dum and sacrifice a mom?

[fast vortex]

game component

[floral mauve]

well...

[azure bay]

yeah, if the evidence doesn't fit in your picture, you just ignore it for one reason or another))))

[floral mauve]

I think murals and paintings are there for a in game reason

otherwise why would devs bother changing a painting

like Case 23 ones

no fighting guys

[fast vortex]

sure

[floral mauve]

otherwise Damy will bonk us

wait

Amy?

[azure bay]

we aren't

we all do that

discarding evidence

[floral mauve]

objective is hard

thats why u need a group of ppl to discuss

[fast vortex]

I don't know what to tell you about the picture

[floral mauve]

get blinded by the current view and ignore a big picture is common

[floral mauve]

its simple, it means hundreds years ago, there were plagues as well

as simple as that

[fast vortex]

logical

[covert wyvern]

I'm inclined to agree with that

[azure bay]

• The plagues are also mentioned in Caroline's book.
• David seems to know the plagues well enough to have a favorite one.
• The 9th plague was foretold long before

[covert wyvern]

It's a reoccurring thing?

[floral mauve]

favorite plague uwu

oh its so hard to choose between frogs and flies

[azure bay]

I tend to think so, the problem is their frequency

[fast vortex]

So the series of plagues was not one

[floral mauve]

you could say its one if you refer them as a whole

[azure bay]

I don't know for sure. That's how I interpret the evidence

[floral mauve]

like

plague decade

[azure bay]

talking of the frequency, we have several problems

We had 3 sacrifice attempts

and no evidence of plagues after the cult died out

[floral mauve]

what do you mean here

[azure bay]

Jacob 1, Caroline and Jacob 2

[floral mauve]

oh...

em

I think

Jakob 1 and Caroline is the same attempt

[azure bay]

debatable

[floral mauve]

how?

[azure bay]

since the coffin was surrounded by the grown up children

and maybe also the bonfire

but not sure here

[floral mauve]

could it be a mistake of dev?

plus

she said

take me instead

that means the Jakob 1 thing is definitely not happening

and he was sent out of paradise right away

before Nikolas regret

[azure bay]

I guess, "When was Caroline killed?" becomes my another question for Q&A

[floral mauve]

I already know the answer

"sorry, we dont answer deep lore questions"

[azure bay]

dude, we've got ancient Harvey hatching from a black egg and being a guide

[floral mauve]

would they have another q and a this summer?

[floral mauve]

I know

but they didnt answer my ten plague question

[azure bay]

what was that?

[floral mauve]

and ur caroline question is quite the same

[azure bay]

I don't tend to think that the 1st memory is a mistake

it could be

but I'd prefer not to

or idk anymore

maybe "the plagues take place every 16 years" is better than "every 4 years"

[floral mauve]

I mean

[azure bay]

4 because of a complex rationalization

[floral mauve]

they might have that picture in the teaser and didnt consider that much

that first plague coffin picture is quite famous

thats the first thing I saw when I looked up Rusty lake last year

could you check when they release the production news of paradise

[azure bay]

I guess, we just need to be specific when asking

[floral mauve]

you know more sources and put more time in RL than I do

[azure bay]

"Were the kids grown up when Caroline was burnt, as seen in a cube?"

[floral mauve]

bruh

that...

just make it more deep lore

[azure bay]

no it's pretty surface

[floral mauve]

perhaps

we should make it more yes or no

[azure bay]

it's about interpretation of a certain imagery

[floral mauve]

otherwise it would be easy for them to keep mouth shut in open questions

[azure bay]

it's already like that

[floral mauve]

I know

I am just stating the previously failed experience

[azure bay]

ok

I like the direction of fusing several reasons together

like the plagues can be triggered

but only once in a while

that would explain the time span between them

and their absence later on

do you want to hear my reasoning behind the "4 years" assumption?

[floral mauve]

I cant believe I am that dumb during the Q&A

[azure bay]

that was unexpected

you couldn't be prepared

[floral mauve]

just some regret and flashbacks

I was alone with Robin in the booth since he is online somehow out of working time

[azure bay]

multiple timelines is already grand

[floral mauve]

Marteen answer that one I think

[azure bay]

do you want to hear my reasoning behind 4 years?

[floral mauve]

sure

wait

that will make Owl super busy

since it is super frequent

and I think Vanderbooms will be heavily affected?

plus the red moon

did we see that in Roots?

[azure bay]

we couldn't

I'm sure the plagues were not a thing back then

[floral mauve]

?

what

[floral mauve]

I thought you are saying it has been like this for hundreds of years

whats the difference does the Vanderbooms make

[azure bay]

I'm saying they are another product of soft worldbuilding

[floral mauve]

can they make nature stop causing plagues?
Humans usually compromise the nature rather than stop it from the roots

[floral mauve]

wha

[azure bay]

The White Door

[floral mauve]

I am confusion

[azure bay]

it's an old organization but we heard nothing about it until the game

[floral mauve]

in three paragraph, u managed to make the timeline across three centuries

[azure bay]

I'm not speaking of the timeline

I'm speaking of writing

[floral mauve]

I am not following

what does tpw has anything to do with all those

[azure bay]

nothing

it's just an example of a soft worldbuilding product

hard worldbuilding is when you think all your lore through before you start writing

soft worldbuilding is adding things up on a go

There wasn't TWD in 2015

[floral mauve]

I see

[azure bay]

just as Plagues during the Roots conception

(I assume)

Soft worldbuilding has a huge problem

It's hard to do it right with no mistakes

the bigger the concept is, the harder it's to incorporate

in the ideal world they would have to justify why we don't have plagues during Roots

maybe the plagues are a one-time thing for real

maybe they are triggerable or preventable

but the world isn't ideal and maybe it's nothing like above and just a plot hole

and the most funny thing here, its all of that at the same time

just for different people

Narik thinks it's Caroline's death that triggered them

and old-looking imagery is just gameplay

a guy from Reddit thinks that the plagues are a one of a kind event

and Eilanders are lucky idiots that don't know what they are doing

maybe it's happening every 16 years and Vanderbooms are all blind

what we all need to do is to acknowledge all these problems and find an elegant way around them

[floral mauve]

before I talk with you

I am on the main stream side which is Caroline's death triggered the plagues due to false sacrifice

now I am on the confusion side

[floral mauve]

I think they know what to do

its the only thing they do and they just follow it

its the entire purpose of the cult

probably they dont know the reasons behind it

like how Lake works

its like religion and science

hundreds years back

[azure bay]

I think every religion has a goal like that. Some kind of afterlife achievable by following some moral system and requiring blind fate

[floral mauve]

but its different

this is about something that works

it could be explained by RL science

like analysing the lake

its a natural order

[azure bay]

and the cult seemingly doesn't do that

[floral mauve]

exactly

its like you dont need to know how shower works in order to take a shower

[azure bay]

What I'm saying, probably, they are just lucky that their beliefs are real

[floral mauve]

indeed

but they know process

and have a result

[azure bay]

they can be just even more lucky idiots

but that's unticlimactic

[floral mauve]

its not lucky idiots, its just following previous experience

[azure bay]

which has seemingly no feedback

[floral mauve]

but u know

it worked

its like Bitcoin

[azure bay]

It worked in Paradise but possibly didn't ever before

[floral mauve]

well....

I thought its an old ritual

[azure bay]

I think I'm not clear

[floral mauve]

so you are saying nothing happened when their ancester did it

[azure bay]

we can assume so because we know nothing of their ancestors. We don't even know why Margaret is with them

if she could ascend with one of the previous generations

but even if she did the rest of the family wouldn't know that

because we don't expect asuras to return to Paradise and show themselves

As I said, it's like other religions

[floral mauve]

so yea

[azure bay]

heaven may exist, but no one returns from there to tell about it

[floral mauve]

fair

but we do know

naraka exists

[azure bay]

how is that related to what I'm saying?

[floral mauve]

I am just responding to ur heaven stuff

[azure bay]

that was just an analogy

heaven, enlightenment - they are alike. Both are concepts you can blindly believe in

[floral mauve]

I know

[azure bay]

hmmm

a cool idea

maybe the cult exists because of some asuras actually returning before

[warm cedar]

Is there a theory for this or can like someone explain wtf just happened

[azure bay]

there are many

what exactly is your question?

[warm cedar]

For a second I thought i was blondie because of the mirror

I just like....didn't get the ending tbh

We're we blondie? Or was blondie the person who died? ( the blood n stuff yk )

😭

[azure bay]

yes

[warm cedar]

Yes?

[azure bay]

yes

[warm cedar]

My brain is getting fried

[fast vortex]

We're blondie

Yes

[warm cedar]

Oh

Okay

[azure bay]

and blondie died

[fast vortex]

Yes

[warm cedar]

W

Hat

[fast vortex]

[warm cedar]

HUH

[covert wyvern]

ye you play as the person who is dead.

[warm cedar]

Oh

[fast vortex]

get used to it

[azure bay]

and basically that person is trying to undo that

[warm cedar]

Ohh

By making 4 wee wee ass juices💀💀

[azure bay]

whether she was successful or not is a topic to debate

[warm cedar]

Ohhh

[azure bay]

did you play other games?

[warm cedar]

I've played a few but I didn't really know the order

[azure bay]

what games did you play?

[warm cedar]

I've played theatre, the lake and seasons

Wait

I just repeated theatre

Currently I was starting arles

[azure bay]

ok, I can tell more about The Lake

it's about the trip that woman won

to a mental institution

Rusty Lake Mental Health and Fishing

[covert wyvern]

but it's probably a good idea to finish the collection before diving into theories, lest you be spoiled

[azure bay]

I'm careful here

[covert wyvern]

haha I appreciate it! thanks

[azure bay]

highlighting the links he missed

[floral mauve]

from what he played so far, the only connection we are safe to tell him is that Lake happen at Summer seasons

[azure bay]

@warm cedar chronologically, The Lake takes place after Spring and before Summer

[warm cedar]

Ohhh okay okay

[floral mauve]

omg we are thinking the same uwu

[azure bay]

ehm... 5 years after Spring and 2 years before Summer

[floral mauve]

yes

[azure bay]

thus her flashbacks of the lake

[warm cedar]

Oh yeap that makes sense

I did see the thing with the photos the wall but I wasn't sure what to make of it

Thankyou for clarifying👍👍

[azure bay]

I'm telling nothing about Theater for the time being cause it's much later in the order

[warm cedar]

Is arles related to the main series? It reminds me of Vincent van gogh if anything

[floral mauve]

nope

[warm cedar]

Also it seems to be set much before...1888

Oh

[floral mauve]

but the ideas behind it

its related

[warm cedar]

Ohhh

[azure bay]

it's the same universe but no clear connection story-wise

[warm cedar]

Oh okay I guess I'll leave it for the end then

What's next after seasons?

[azure bay]

you play on phone?

[warm cedar]

Yes

[floral mauve]

just play through cube escape collection

[warm cedar]

OH

[warm cedar]

Okok

Thankyou 👍👍

[azure bay]

it ignores premium games

[floral mauve]

I think its fine if you play premiums games later except paradox

Paradox is priority

[azure bay]

The Cave is much more clear after Roots

[floral mauve]

indeed

[azure bay]

and Paradox after Paradise

[fast vortex]

yes, but most premium games take place much earlier than the cube escape

[azure bay]

I'm not speaking of the chronology

[floral mauve]

I personally played all free ones first

[azure bay]

but of the recommended order

[fast vortex]

Oh okay

[warm cedar]

Probably gonna do that

[covert wyvern]

there's always just a dev recommendation in #📚｜resources too.

(which you know does include the premium games)

[fast vortex]

If anything, then Samsara room is a continuation of the end of the roots

I think

[floral mauve]

yes

[azure bay]

I may suggest you the order I devised in order to elevate comprehension.

[warm cedar]

Ohh okay

[warm cedar]

I guess this is the order in collection

[fast vortex]

Yep

[floral mauve]

do you guys think the Seasons room is real

[fast vortex]

Hmmm

[floral mauve]

I am gonna spoiler some stuff, so pls look away

[azure bay]

• The Lake (mind the secret ending that requires a code from Seasons)
• Seasons
• Harvey's Box
• Case 23
• The Mill
• Hotel
• Arles (if you go achievement hunting)
• Roots
• Samsara Room
• The Past Within? (tbd, it's not out yet)
• Paradise
• Paradox (secret endings are crucial)
• The Cave
• Birthday
• Theatre
• The White Door

[fast vortex]

Hard question

[floral mauve]

I think it is

because Dale saw it

[fast vortex]

Maybe

[floral mauve]

and I am almost certain that

Case23 first scene is staged

[fast vortex]

maybe she is, but at the beginning of case 23 she disappears

[floral mauve]

wdym

[azure bay]

I see no good reason for it not to

[fast vortex]

I mean it's impossible to answer this question

as for me

[floral mauve]

then it would kinda overthrow the idea of season is Laura's paradox

I know its not

dont shoot me

[azure bay]

I don't get your logic

[floral mauve]

its just another detail saying seasons is not paradox

its not a loop and its a real place with real memories of it

[azure bay]

I see

[glass grove]

wait how does seasons end again?

[azure bay]

depends on your belief system

[glass grove]

after the furniture disappears, i suppose its case 23 since there is minimal furniture

in the room^

[floral mauve]

idk why, the season's ending windows make me feel like giant white cube of paradox

I dont like relating those two

[azure bay]

not you alone

[azure bay]

Seasons ending has no direct connection to Case 23

no matter the outcome

[floral mauve]

I feel like the seasons room we see in Case 23 was a portal made by Mr Owl to deliver the corpse for example

which shuts right after Dale enters the stage

everything looks so staged in Case 23 first scene

[azure bay]

I see it as 2 things

1. maybe someone doesn't want Dale entering that room
2. but certainly the devs don't want the player to be there at the time

[floral mauve]

whats the second one

[azure bay]

"just gameplay"

[floral mauve]

bruh

[azure bay]

the devotees love this answer

[floral mauve]

no

if everything is gameplay

its just pain

[azure bay]

not everything

but something has to be

[floral mauve]

yep

like alchemistry level in roots

[fast vortex]

whose memories are stored in cubes that can be made in the alchemical level in the roots?)))

[floral mauve]

thats why its purely gameplay

[azure bay]

the white cube is a reference to Laura

[floral mauve]

just making random stuff

[azure bay]

a fish and a green gem. It screams The Lake

[fast vortex]

Yep

[floral mauve]

yes

and dynamite and lighting?

[fast vortex]

Boom, ha-ha

[floral mauve]

bruh

thats a big boom

[fast vortex]

BOOM, ha-ha

[slow ridge]

Ok, how tf the Globe in Paradox work? It absolutely doesn't fit that picture of the Lake we have on the Cave and Roots.. does it?

[ebon aspen]

you mean the maps dont share the same info?

[floral mauve]

It shows the timeline of Dale and Laura in two globes

If u observe the name of locations

[slow ridge]

Hmm

It's curious, what's that "Dark Town"?

[floral mauve]

Dunno

But it could be made up locations like many others

[azure bay]

Damy, can you please recall me your problems with grandpa being Crow?

[covert wyvern]

O I don't really have a problem with it? or well I guess I personally just dontr wanna believe it

I don't really have any good reasons as to why

they're 100% just me being biased LMAO

[azure bay]

ok, thank you

[covert wyvern]

(like I don't think we can deny the cube scar / the gun / the recipe from theatre etc.)

[azure bay]

the problem is, we can deny everything

I'm sure about it not being a scar but the rest makes more sense lore-wise

[fast vortex]

what's the scar? didn't notice him

[azure bay]

There's a theory that the cube that I see as a cult tattoo might be a scar after Rabbit's bullet

[fast vortex]

ok i understand what you mean

I think it's a scar after a bullet

[azure bay]

too weird for a scar

[fast vortex]

Most things lead to Dale's grandfather being Crow

[azure bay]

even Crow wouldn't survive a bullet

[fast vortex]

Who know, who know

[azure bay]

Pheasant couldn't take it

Boar and Rabbit were stabbed

they are mortal

[fast vortex]

Maybe he fake his own death

Because the rabbit magician

I think

[analog yacht]

Wait, but Aldous is Crow, isn't he?

[floral mauve]

yes

[fast vortex]

Yes

[floral mauve]

thats the one thing we are certain

hopefully

[azure bay]

Aldous is. The question is, is Aldous the grandpa?

[fast vortex]

I think yes

But its hard

Question

[analog yacht]

I kinda doubt that, cause then wouldn't they have shown up in Roots? and isn't it kinda implied that Aldous is James' father? Or something like that? Since william is the uncle

[azure bay]

That's just another debatable topic

[fast vortex]

who said William is an uncle?

[azure bay]

The game

in the very intro

[fast vortex]

an I don't think it was William

[floral mauve]

I think the uncle is referring to William

[fast vortex]

Some other unknown family member, maybe, but that's stupid

Triplets beget triplets that beget triplets

[analog yacht]

Also slightly different surnames. So unless Grandpa is on Dale's mother's side, it's probably not it, I think

[floral mauve]

So we are having three branches:

1. The Crow has nothing to do with grandpa
2. The Crow was the actual grandpa of Dale
3. The Crow has nothing to do with grandpa and grandpa wasnt in the real massacre scene, it was added by the hotel gang as twisted memory to spectate Dale.

[azure bay]

the 3 is too specific

[floral mauve]

a small poll wont hurt

right?

[azure bay]

"Van der" is just "of the"

[floral mauve]

u can add anything if u want

[azure bay]

I'd remove debatable details

[analog yacht]

Yeah, I know XD My surname is van der Merwe

[azure bay]

lol

sry

))))

[analog yacht]

It's fine, you didn't knwo XD

But I did laugh when I read vandermeer for the first time

[azure bay]

I sense confusion

William is James' uncle

[floral mauve]

which debatable detail

[floral mauve]

I personally is a 3 person as well

[azure bay]

I'd just say that Crow impersonates grandpa inside a memory

[floral mauve]

yes

that

[azure bay]

without details about the real grandpa

[floral mauve]

yep

thats what I was trying to say for 3

[ripe flame]

Ik that Crow is grandfather of Dale but how in the same time he is dad of James? Plus his surname is VanderBOOM and Dale's is VanderMEER

[floral mauve]

who says the names cant be made up

[azure bay]

Ehm... They ARE related somehow

[floral mauve]

Aldous could create a new surname

based on an old one

[ripe flame]

Oh well

[azure bay]

I wouldn't call taking a wide spread prefix as based

[floral mauve]

then ignore that part

he created a new one

[azure bay]

or he didn't and it was the one of his son-in-law

[floral mauve]

alright

could be

[ripe flame]

As i understand, this boy it is an Aldouses dog?

Or William's?

Maybe Williams

[floral mauve]

...I thought its James's dog

[ripe flame]

Didn't William gifted this dog him? I thought he did

[fallow hollow]

well we can say its a family dog

[azure bay]

James arrived with it

[ripe flame]

Yes, he is in The Graveyard with Rose

[floral mauve]

and we never sees it again until Rose got it

somehow

[ripe flame]

Oh well

[floral mauve]

do we know what happened or interpret

[azure bay]

I don't expect anything abnormal

[floral mauve]

I mean the existence of an immortal family dog is abnormal

and apparently no one questions it

somehow

[ripe flame]

I think Rose got him cuz: Emma can't she hung herself. Frank was in the well. Ida and Samuel died. Leonard was on the war. Rose was with her dad soo... They are alive.... And this boys is theirs 👀

[floral mauve]

I mean why didnt we see the dog anywhere else until Rose got it

[azure bay]

At some point Albert had to take care of it

[floral mauve]

like in the family time or wedding picture

[azure bay]

it was irrelevant back then?

[floral mauve]

I mean even a hundred year ago

[azure bay]

and had no puzzle use?

[floral mauve]

ppl would include the dog

into the pic

[floral mauve]

bruh

thats sad

could it be slightly more dramatic

for example

[azure bay]

how long did you use to sit still for the image to be projected?

[floral mauve]

I am gonna have some fan fic stuff here:
Aldous kidnapped the dog right after it consumed the elixir, so they had experiment with it such as coming up with extract idea. Then they released the dog back to the house and Rose adopted it and consider it as a homeless dog.

[azure bay]

why to bother returning it?

[floral mauve]

exactly

thats the part I cant make up

to push the Frank's rescue plan?

[azure bay]

is it based on the elixir urine theory?

[floral mauve]

what?

no

[ripe flame]

How about that this dog was in the basement under the tree all time or what does it calls? And than he get out somehow. Idkk

[floral mauve]

wth

[ripe flame]

?

[floral mauve]

I believe death due to hunger is also a thing for prolonged life living beings

[azure bay]

yeah, it's weird. And I see no other reason for the dog to be necessary there

[ripe flame]

This dog didn't dead because of hunger he is alive

[floral mauve]

If dog piss can give me elixir

cursed apple juice

[ripe flame]

Wait wait I can say why this dog is Aldouses dog!!!

We can see him in The Cave!

Where is Mr. Crow!

So!

[floral mauve]

kidnap it from Rose is always an option

[ripe flame]

I think he can be Mr. Crow's dog!

[floral mauve]

bruh

[azure bay]

you can't know that for sure. If we assume that asuras that drank the elixir and the one that didn't operate the same, they are all mortal

[ripe flame]

I just guessing

[floral mauve]

even though they are granted some magical powers

[ripe flame]

My theories

[floral mauve]

weapons still work

plus we have seen the need of feeding the dog several times in the gameplay

[azure bay]

let's call it assumption? I don't think that it's technically built on any evidence

[ripe flame]

I have own evidence

[azure bay]

and what is it?

[ripe flame]

🤨 If it James dog which way is he here 🤨

[floral mauve]

?

I dont get it

[ripe flame]

How can James dog be with Mr.Crow in the Cave

[azure bay]

Rose died and Aldous adopted it for elixir harvesting?

[ripe flame]

What year is The Cave?

[azure bay]

1972

[ripe flame]

And when Rose died?

[azure bay]

no idea

[ripe flame]

U think he can just went from the home

[azure bay]

it's crucial for Owl's plan at that time

either adopted or even stolen

[floral mauve]

around 1970 imo

but dont take it too serious

[ripe flame]

So. Let's think that Rose is alive. Then dog went from the home and only Mr.Crow fund him and took him in The Cave. 👀

[floral mauve]

hold up perhaps thats why it makes sense

if Rose is dead

elixir dog is theirs

[azure bay]

or, as I just realized, the dog was stolen

[floral mauve]

I mean

I am trying to connect it with Cave's Easter egg

[ripe flame]

And we using her poops for elixir bruh

💩

[azure bay]

imo it's no use for now

[floral mauve]

indeed

[ripe flame]

If Rose died, why Mr.Crow took this dog but didn't gifted for Dale as a bday present?

[floral mauve]

I am trying to say those items are close to Rose and perhaps were in her wallet by the time she died or got murdered, then dumped into the lake

I am writing fan fics

[azure bay]

1. there are still doubts if he is Dale's grandpa
2. Dale doesn't need that dog. Crow and Owl do

[floral mauve]

what

[ripe flame]

Same faces so he is his grandfather. Second... Why not? Lol

[floral mauve]

funny thing, u got the right line

I need my drink

[azure bay]

that's ridiculous

sorry

[ripe flame]

Yeh Xd

[floral mauve]

@ripe flame would u mind make a choice

[azure bay]

First, they are not exactly the same.
Second, it makes the RL world feel small when everyone is secretly related

and some other questions like

how on Earth did the 60yo man find a wife to make kids? and how did he survive a headshot?

[ripe flame]

I think it is 2. Why he died when rabbit killed all? He didn't. But he made all for that Dale thinked that all died. But actually he helped him. It is god how could he die

[azure bay]

Rabbit has no affiliation with Owl at that point

He came for the pistol

he needed it to be reborn

[ripe flame]

Wdym?

[azure bay]

I mean that Rabbit didn't work for Owl in 1939

[ripe flame]

They were brothers but after they came god's they aren't brothers but why Mr.Owl killed them all? He took revenge on them for their mother. That is, he remembers that this is his brother. He didn't work for Owl, Owl didn't need that rabbit killed Crow

[azure bay]

I see many problems here but I start with the logic

[ripe flame]

Okay

[azure bay]

how is Owl's supposed revenge connected to the massacre?

(am I getting deja vu?)

(oh I am)

[ripe flame]

He revanged in Hotel. I mean above Mr Rabbit remember that his brother killed him so now he is revanging with
who was chosen by Owl. Plus looks like he kills Crow but he didn't

[azure bay]

didn't you just repeat the same theories? I'm afraid you didn't answer my question

let's suppose, you are right

[ripe flame]

Okay. Than next question?

[azure bay]

no

It's not next

it's the same

[ripe flame]

Repeat

Question

[azure bay]

I guess, it will be easier in #🌐｜русскоязычный-канал