🤔｜theories

[azure bay]

What's substance from gis past life?

The note was left near the open chest

Therefore, the thing taken from it was the aforementioned substance

The very same pistol was seen earlier in Hotel

Used by Ms. Pheasant who used to perform together with Rabbit

Why the different look?

1st of all brown Rabbit died

His old body is no more

But I personally go further

The CS in Owl's autoclave isn'd exactly the same as the one outside the window

The latter has whiskers

The white rabbit also has those

And he basically looks a lot like that CS

So I assume that during his travel he was gradually becoming more and more alive

Maybe even human, as a guy from reddit says. because of human hands in Paradox

That's it

But you can try looking for other theories

I've just got one

There's a theory that Eilanders and Vanderbooms are related

There's a theory that Dale's grandpa is Crow

These two theories combined make Dale an Eilander

D. Eilander

It has problems

But the 1st one also may

So I encourage you to find them

(it seems I scared everyone away)

[ivory girder]

no i just don't want to interrupt you saying lol

that's a lot of words and i agree with most of them

speaking of the handwriting thing that i mentioned earlier it also appeared in arles so it's probably just a font and nothing else let's throw that thing outside the window

[azure bay]

Wow, I didn't even realize it was so overused

[ivory girder]

same i thought it's just an one-time thing in birthday

[azure bay]

And what do you disagree on?

[ivory girder]

uhh idrk i have to understand all of them first

[azure bay]

I guess asking questions could help here

[ivory girder]

i don't even notice that the rabbit in the owl's room and the one outside the window are different in graphics lol

[azure bay]

It may be a kind of overlook

Or a clue

You never know

[somber flame]

I fully condone this theory. I wouldnt say his grandpa is actually Aldous, but my guess is that the scene we see in Birthday isnt actually the past, but just Dale's memory, just kinda fused with the present. Cause there's also the question of how would Dale's grandpa even know Mr. Rabbit was coming

[azure bay]

The last one is easy

[somber flame]

So the guy in Birthday is Aldous, but Aldous isnt his actual grandpa

[azure bay]

Dale would definitely try to warn

[ivory girder]

i think it is a clue, the one in the owl's room was just killed so it doesn't have the whiskers

[somber flame]

Yeah, but his parents ask him "How did you know?"

[azure bay]

We don't know, it's a highly debatable topic

[somber flame]

but Grandpa just goes in guns blazing

[somber flame]

true, true

[azure bay]

They ask like he tried to warn but they didn't believe him

[ivory girder]

aldous and dale's grandpa is kinda a big debate lol there are a LOT of clues about it and also a LOT that contradicts it

[somber flame]

Ahhhh ok, that could make sense?

[ivory girder]

the "how did you know" idk is to dale or to grandpa tho

[somber flame]

It would be to grandpa, I guess, since he asks for the gun

cause we dont really see or hear Dale speak

[azure bay]

Likely Dale, his mother definitely addresses him

[somber flame]

Or maybe how did you know the gun was in the box?

[azure bay]

There is such an example of Dale saying something we don't hear

[azure bay]

Who?

[somber flame]

Oh wait sorry, cause grandpa says open the box

So that's how Dale knows, my bad

[somber flame]

Is there??

[azure bay]

Case 23 and The White Door

[ivory girder]

ohhhhhh i forgor this

[azure bay]

Bob's corruption

[ivory girder]

dale's grandpa is definitely not just a normal character tho let's just say that

[somber flame]

Yeah but you still see the text of what he says

but it could still be argued that he says something

[azure bay]

He heard Dale say "I need your memory". We didn't when we played Case 23

[somber flame]

Ohhhhh that's in White Door?

[ivory girder]

yes

[somber flame]

Oh yeah for sure

[ivory girder]

normally games other than the white door don't have any narrators so we don't know what the character we are playing as said in the games

[azure bay]

Dale used to be a pretty blend character before the movie came out

Except for a Twin Peaks reference he spoke

[somber flame]

Also wanted to bring up another thing I saw but dont know the connection of

How is Harvey connected to Dale??

[azure bay]

no idea

[turbid heath]

big honest he might not be

but like

[somber flame]

Welllllll

Friend, though??

[turbid heath]

there's no reason why they'd send a lil postcard with no info to the guy they were planning to Bad Birthday up

[somber flame]

Are you saying Harvey is working with Mr. Rabbit???

Ooooooh

interesting

[ivory girder]

do u really think that harvey knows what's going on lol

[turbid heath]

i mean

do we

does anyone

[azure bay]

The devs told Harvey is some kind of an ancient guide

[turbid heath]

Isn't it ENTIRELY feasible that every single character in this series knows there's, like, vague stuff going on, and they all do things

[ivory girder]

harvey is everywhere in the series so that's not impossible

[turbid heath]

and that's all they are aware of

"Harvey, did you send that Dale kid a postcard?"
"Squawk!"
"... Why?"
"... Squawk!"

[ivory girder]

but harvey could have just wanted dale a happy birthday

[azure bay]

we don't really know if the postcard was real

[turbid heath]

THERE IS ALSO THAT

[ivory girder]

oh yeah that

[turbid heath]

The whole thing could be, like

[azure bay]

it could be, it could be not

[ivory girder]

we're not really sure what's real what's not

[turbid heath]

Laura goes to chill at a lake, drowns, and her dying mind makes up this whole story about ancient bloodlines and hardboiled detectives, I would be mad, but it would certainly make sense

[somber flame]

lmaooooo

[azure bay]

It wouldn't due to a ton of perspectives spreading across centuries

[ivory girder]

the story isn't just based on laura's mind but that would be real funny

[turbid heath]

i told you guys, the next game after TPW is gonna be an unnamed POV character repairing a piano and then credits, the company dissolves and every dev becomes a monk with a vow of silence and an UNBEARABLY smug face

[ivory girder]

actually i'm looking forward to see what rl is up for this year april's fools

[azure bay]

I bet either on 20k BC or on a game about young Laura

[ivory girder]

it's coming very soon

[ivory girder]

the iconic mammoth

[turbid heath]

you play as harvey back when he was a velociraptor

[azure bay]

it wouldn't be Harvey tho

[ivory girder]

or would it

there must be some kind of yaknow interractions with the very past and now it can't just stand there with all of the new characters and nothing related to the present i think

it has to have some kind of connections

harvey can be one i think but it's not that possible lol

[azure bay]

I'd expect to see next events back then:

• the Lake's origin

• Harvey's birth from a black egg

• a cult being built around the Lake

||Dear Robin and Maarten, in case you silently canceled that game you are free to take those ideas. I'll just call that a prediction on my part||

[ivory girder]

i really hope they don't just scrap it tho

[azure bay]

so do I

it has so much potential

all the other releases during these 3 years just seem more urgent

[floral mauve]

indeed bruh

I just see Future Dale dress as Mr Rabbit a nice plot

a plot twist as I shall say

no wonder why when I first play Birthday I knew Mr Rabbit looks like someone familiar

in RL

[azure bay]

I think if they really had such an intention they'd use Dale's sprite

[floral mauve]

sprite?

not coke?

[azure bay]

In case it's not just a joke and you are really ingorant, sprites are 2d images used in video games

For characters and objects

And UI, I guess

[floral mauve]

bruh I felt insulted

English is not my native language

but still I dont get it

the clothes already kinda suggested it?

[azure bay]

1. it's not about english, it's about terminology
2. I guess, we have not that much native speakers here

[azure bay]

But not the posture, the colors, the body type

[floral mauve]

？？？

come on

if that counts I can say Robert Aldous and Jakob look different in every game

[azure bay]

You would be wrong

For different reasons

But my point is

[vague imp]

Doesn’t the letter in bday suggest rabbit is getting something from a past life? So it would make sense rabbit is dale

[azure bay]

Why do people think grandpa is Crow?

[floral mauve]

indeed

[azure bay]

He takes a pistol. Nothing else is required

[floral mauve]

thats why before we were thinking what the hell does Mr Rabbit D.Eilander has to do with Dale's family

if Mr Rabbit isnt Eilander

[floral mauve]

I dont know if u notice

The Birthday itself is the past life of Dale

which means he himself created a loop

[azure bay]

Technically, it's his current life

[floral mauve]

stuff in the birthday box doesnt matter, but because of that it triggers his entire family got murdered

[floral mauve]

if he enlightens

its past

[ivory girder]

if we really think about it most of the stuff that happened in rl are time loops so

[floral mauve]

well only paradox tbh

[azure bay]

If he enlightens he doesnvt need to escape his state

[floral mauve]

who knows

[ivory girder]

seasons could be one, and hotel possibly with dale coming back to the past???

[floral mauve]

?

[azure bay]

I'm sure it's the case. Dale is about to become the greatest being we ever seen

[floral mauve]

Dale coming back is future

not a loop

[floral mauve]

its a prophecy

[ivory girder]

well we don't really know

[floral mauve]

?

[ivory girder]

golden cube is still a wtf to me

[floral mauve]

its elevator journey

elevator physically connects with the Hotel

[azure bay]

A form of elixir, next question pkease

[ivory girder]

well

[floral mauve]

but is himself really happy what the hell happened on him?

perhaps he awaked

and decided to do something

acting as Mr Rabbit

or under the name of Mr Rabbit

or the other way round

He has to murder his own family to create the trauma for his younger self

to become Deva

funny thoughts

[azure bay]

Owl was happy enough. See no reason for Dale to do otherwise after he chose the elevator in Paradox.

Plus, you seem to forget other controversies like no real visual link or worthlessness of misleading us

[floral mauve]

I know

thats why there is another explaination I have above

[floral mauve]

below this

[vague imp]

I was thinking dale could be David reincarnated

[azure bay]

I prefer the devs foreshadowing Bday in Hotel

[floral mauve]

what?

[azure bay]

The window rabbit

[floral mauve]

yes

but afterall

[azure bay]

And birthday is the very next game

[floral mauve]

no matter how many theories we made today

we still see no link between Dale's family and Rabbit

all of the theories are trying to make sense out of that

[azure bay]

What kind of link are you talking about?

[floral mauve]

we are trying to link or rationalise the behaviour of Mr Rabbit

like

I see it completely absurd

murdering the entire family to take one thing

[azure bay]

William harvested organs for the same cause, by the way

[turbid heath]

tbf we know the grandpa is an absolute crackshot, if he had given them a millisecond to prepare he would have gotten strapped

[ivory girder]

my man really planned how his relatives were married and born and died just for him after decades damn

like that's rusty lake

it's very wack

[azure bay]

And also @floral mauve what's the point in dying for this cause?

[floral mauve]

who

many ppl died in Birthday

[azure bay]

Dale murdering his parents so his past-self makes grandpa kill him instead

[floral mauve]

thats kinda altered memory

for the process of becoming Deva

to cure the trauma

[azure bay]

The thing is

He doesn't even have to be a rabbit

[floral mauve]

well otherwise he will realise it was himself

which will drive him insane

this is such a movie plot

[azure bay]

Why not deer?

Like the one who attacked him in the cabin?

[ivory girder]

oh yeah the whole situation of dale and deer lol

another story

[floral mauve]

indeed

its hard to move around in his house with deer head

[ivory girder]

[floral mauve]

I actually dont know

since Dale in enlightened form

is deer

[azure bay]

May I share a joke?

It may insult you a bit

I'm afraid

[covert wyvern]

points @ Rule1

Common sense has kicked in, I think it's better you just do not share.

[azure bay]

Well, it may be funny since I'm not to insult him

I just care about his feelings

[floral mauve]

bruh

I dont mind (my feelings are dead as always)

U can always dm

[azure bay]

Hey, You! Rusty Lake! We just exposed your trickery! Now be so kind and put the deer head where it belongs. This rabbit mess can't fool anymore

[floral mauve]

I am confused

but sure

[turbid heath]

what

[azure bay]

what

[azure bay]

(cool, Robin is online to read this)

[covert wyvern]

it's actually Ruben but yknow

[azure bay]

ouch

I'm confused

[covert wyvern]

Robin n Maarten use the RL account.

I believe all the other people have their own discord accounts

[vague imp]

Someone probably already pointed this out but at the end of hotel when mr owl shows Harvey the black cubes, all the other animals appear just as corrupted soul like shadows but the rabbit appears as the white rabbit. So it seems like whoever said that the white rabbit is a corrupted soul might be on to the answer?

[turbid heath]

it was me

and quite frankly i was half joking

But as usual, my utter bullcrap might actually be genius...

🤔

[sage token]

Both Rabbits are the same bunny boi imo

[vague imp]

I assumed that dale was a reincarnation of David and the bunny killer is their corrupted soul when I first encountered the games but idk if that makes sense

[vapid portal]

i kinda understand ur pov but at the same time i dont

considering owl wants to "crown" dale as the new ruler of the lake, it would be weird to crown the brother that killed u in a past life and that you killed in another life

[digital oriole]

the brother that killed u in a past life and that you killed in another life...AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHA

Dale's deva form is a deer, I don't think people would reincarnate as different animals

[floral mauve]

I think you kinda misunderstood our previous discussion of Dale being Mr Rabbit

I never said Dale is D.Eilander

he dresses like Mr Rabbit doesnt necessarily mean he is the actual D.Eilander Rabbit CS

[floral mauve]

its an odd CS from all aspect

I personally never believe it is only the design

[vague imp]

Yeah it’s confusing

What are deva in rusty lake exactly

[ebon aspen]

Basically the stage above asura (the human-animal hybrids)
When someone gets fully enlightened, we will prolly see a deva being born

And now a shitty thought came to my mind
Could the lake itself be a deva? Or its stated somewhere it should have a living being form like the other samsara stages?
I mean, considering everything that happens there and its powers

[vague imp]

Hunh interesting idea.

[digital oriole]

given that the lake does ask for sacrifices and that Mr.Crow says "the lake will be grateful" if you unlock the secret ending to Paradox Chapter 1, it does seem that "the lake" has some spirit (?) of its own
why will the lake be grateful because ||Dale sacrifices himself for Laura|| is beyond me though, I don't see how ||the lake needs laura||

[azure bay]

Just personal preference, I guess

And I don't think it was Crow to say that

[digital oriole]

you're right, upon retrospect nobody said that, the sentence just appeared on the screen

[azure bay]

If we were to attribute those words to someone I'd bet on the lake's telepathy

[floral mauve]

Also

I believe Deer Dale itself is in asura stage

It’s the golden cube that made him different

The sign of deva

[somber flame]

If I may ask, in which game do these terms appear??

[outer osprey]

If I remember right, I think in Cube Escape Paradox?

[somber flame]

Riiiiight right right

thank u thank u

[digital oriole]

I don't think the exact term "deva" and "asura" appeared in any game, players deduced them from the wheel of life which matches the cycle of life in indian mythology

[somber flame]

Huh, okay

[vague imp]

when does dale become a deer

[outer osprey]

We find him in the maze in Paradox Chapter 2.

[somber flame]

Now Im actually starting to think that it could be someone trying to switch places with Mr. Rabbit. Cause we see em lurking outside the hotel the whole time, and then BAM he's in Mr. Owl's room. I dont see them being the same Mr. Rabbit since we see them both at the same time in the game

UNLESS its the same guy, but he's come back from the future for some reason

[outer osprey]

Click the video, it starts from when you're after Deer Dale.
https://youtu.be/rkWe73k_BQ0?t=2601

[somber flame]

Oooooh what if its the same Mr. Rabbit who tries to take his old self's place to go into the lake, but now in a more advanced form so he can mess with the past and shit

That's why we see him in Birthday, but Mr. Owl is a billion steps ahead and has sent him the gift already

[vague imp]

Oh yeah I forgot that part

[somber flame]

Also, do you guys know of anyone having made like a coherent timline with the whole story that I can read somewhere?

[outer osprey]

You can read the timeline in the Rusty Lake wiki Fandom: https://rusty-lake.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline

[somber flame]

Ohhhhhh thank you very much

[outer osprey]

No problem!

[covert wyvern]

with the added disclaimer that this, too, is a fan project and may not be accurate.

[outer osprey]

Well, we haven't been given a lot to work with on the first place, soooooooooooooo...

[covert wyvern]

I realise, i'm just saying.

[outer osprey]

Yeah, of course.

[azure bay]

Disagree. Too complicated for my liking.

[floral mauve]

How is that complicated

It’s just asura plus golden cube equals deva

It makes sense

[azure bay]

But why the journey?

[turbid heath]

Character development

[azure bay]

From the lore pov

[floral mauve]

The process of adapting golden cube

It’s about mentally

Like I believe a regular asura can’t use the golden cube unless they pass the mental state and reach a higher consciousness

[azure bay]

And here I think you start overcomplicating

1st you assume that the golden cube is a superior thing (ok, it's natural to assume so but still it complicates the picture)

Then u assume that this unique thing is unusable by everyone

[vague imp]

I’m kind of confused was Laura killed by her own corrupted soul bc The Mill seems to indicate she wasn’t corrupted until after her death when mr crow screwed up extracting her memories

[turbid heath]

counterpoint, time travel

O maybe not

Like, I'm not sure if time travel is actually, you know, real real in the Rustyverse

[floral mauve]

thats what made it unique isnt it?

[azure bay]

No, you go backwards

It's unique, therefore, it's unusable

I'm sure this is your thought process

Correct me if I'm wrong

[turbid heath]

what

[azure bay]

.

[turbid heath]

I mean firstly, the golden cube was definitely superior for the rulers' purposes, considering they spent so many resources to acquire it

[floral mauve]

I mean

[turbid heath]

As for the second thing... yeah, that one I don't quite get

[floral mauve]

if anyone can use it

thats just dumb and pointless for the higher consciousness

[turbid heath]

Having a higher consciousness has other perks

[azure bay]

Well, they did but that could be no different from acquiring any other elixir

[turbid heath]

Like, Aldous is practically immortal, AND can, assumedly, fly

[floral mauve]

emmmmm

I am not sure about that

[turbid heath]

We have seen them acquiring other elixirs and the process wasn't as complex

[azure bay]

Anyone can use elixir

[turbid heath]

tbh if they can't fly that's a complaint against god

that's why they really want to get to a new level of consciousness, they want to speak to the manager

[azure bay]

Well, William being concidered the last elixir creator is a pretty big deal already.

[floral mauve]

answer this one then

if Golden cube is like Elixir

why cant Dale already consume it

like Golden cube belongs to him now

like

you cant just take elixir out of Owl or Crow's body like Thanos

[azure bay]

I think he could. They just want it to be as efficient as possible

I think you already know my reasoning

[floral mauve]

therefore

I see no problem with my point

[turbid heath]

crunchy

[floral mauve]

here is a metaphor

[azure bay]

It's more complicated than mine. And explains less things

[floral mauve]

I meant Golden cube is already his and ppl other than him cant use it or take it

[turbid heath]

Plus like... From my understanding the last appearance of Dale chronologically was him getting put in the elevator from the bottom of the lake by Crow

[floral mauve]

just like other ppl cant take elixir out of Owl's body and drink it

well

the dog is sus

[turbid heath]

And he was, like, asleep or something there

[azure bay]

It was theatre

[turbid heath]

That's when he got the gold cube

And in Theater he didn't have the cube (because it happened inside his mind I hink?)

So, either he is asleep holding the cube

in which case he can't really access it, yknow, he's schnoozin

[azure bay]

Theatre was inside his cube, and his cube is floating around the lake and the elevator that took him to that cube is real

[floral mauve]

yes

there are two elevator, one is in his mind and one is physical

he needs to pass the mental one while travelling in physical one

[azure bay]

Itvs too lake for Owl he already pooped out all anyone could use

[turbid heath]

Or, he's been awake with the thing at some point, and like... If you had all the magical experience of a hardboiled detective from the 1950s and found yourself riding an elevator while carrying a cube, would you A) tap into the mystical energies of the cube in order to attain a higher state of being, B) stay very still and think happy thoughts while hoping the birb bois will come rescue you, or C) draw your gun

[azure bay]

They are the same. One is just a projection of the other

[floral mauve]

I know

[turbid heath]

I think there is only the mind elevator

[floral mauve]

we are not arguing

this is something we agree on at least

[azure bay]

Dude, please, you were speaking of that elevator being in The Cave

[turbid heath]

Like, Crow sees Owl make Dale go unconscious and then T-pose him into the dungeons from the Mill

[turbid heath]

To be perfectly fair I am very confused

[floral mauve]

I can see that

[turbid heath]

But like, there could be layers of mind elevators?

[azure bay]

Let me explain then

[turbid heath]

I think I'm gonna hop off and work on my less confusing fic about a simple farmer who is done with the bird people

[covert wyvern]

Goodluck with that, then!

[azure bay]

@turbid heath so you are not interested?

[turbid heath]

it's less that i'm not interested and more like

i do have to get this done regardless

But like, no, not right now, please

[azure bay]

Ok then back to the golden cube, my dude @floral mauve

If I'm correct, my last statements were:

1. My explanation is close to yours but more well-built and explains more phenomena

2. Owl already deplited his inner elixir to be used like their dog

[floral mauve]

what

I am confused

but sure

[azure bay]

Ok, let's at least dissolve your confusion here

What didn't you understand?

[floral mauve]

Your counter argument

To my golden cube belongs to Dale and no one else is able to use it theory

[azure bay]

Golden cube is an elixir, therefore, it's usable by everyone.

Dale wasn't let to use it right away because it wasn't the time yet.
If I were Mr. Owl, I'd try to get the best outcome possible.

E.g. after he achieved the higher state of consciousness

Which I believe is to eventually become the reason for that extra spiritual boost required for deva form

[floral mauve]

oh I see your point now

I now agree

since Dale got the golden cube before elevator journey not after

fair enough

[azure bay]

For some reason, I was pretty sure I made this point of view clear during some past discussions

[floral mauve]

Misunderstanding is pretty common within an online discussion

Especially both of us didn’t realise the point that was misunderstood of

[turbid heath]

doubly so if we are all coming into the topic from the angle that we aren't actually super sure what is going on or if anything is real

[azure bay]

well, we can determine the reality of the majority of the games with a good level of certainty

theories like "Dale/Laura/Bob is just hallucinating/in coma" are anticlimactic and also contradict the deepness this lore was getting for 5 last years

Paradox is in Dale's mind - that was clearly established

the majority of Birthday and Theatre are cube memories

Case 23, The Cave and the elevator trip are real

[digital oriole]

how do you know that Case 23 is entirely real?

[azure bay]

To start thing off, I am not sure if the game is an accurate depiction of events but I'm sure that the events themselves took place in reality because it wasn't explicitly told otherwise.

Seasons, Arles, Birthday and Theatre are clearly stated to be memories, Paradox is declared Dale's mind and Case 23 had none of those. It was a 1st person narration with no reason to consider the narrator unreliable

[turbid heath]

I mean, we know that at least the final part in the cabin was fake

Because in The Mill we saw Mr Owl T-posing over an unconscious Dale by the chapel

Meaning Dale arrived to the chapel and got his butt kicked by God

So, the Mill operates as like, a dark mirror to Case 23, a look behind the scenes of how the operation works, from my understanding

Albeit likely abridged for our benefit

You play as Mr Crow, receive the call Dale made to Rusty Lake's mental facilities, and begin to do the prepwork to harvest Laura, before looking out the window and seeing Mr Owl doing the aforementioned T-posing over Dale's unconscious body by the chapel

[azure bay]

you are right here but I think you are confused about everything else

[turbid heath]

Since Dale saw Mr Crow at the Chapel, I think that implies that only the investigation at Laura's home and the police station were more or less real, while the second half of that game was the result of him arriving to the lake, getting conked out by a bird demon, and his concussed drain absorbing some memories about Mr Crow and the Cabin's corrupted souls from the Lake

Because we know Mr Crow wasnt at the chapel at the time

[azure bay]

May I take a word now?

[turbid heath]

Ye

[azure bay]

ok so

T-posing takes place before Dale's chapter 3 in the chapel.

When Dale inserted the cubes he was roughly teleported to the lake. Mr. Owl placed Dale into the chapel and only then he woke up.

Another thing is, Owl commanded Crow in his letter to take Dale to the cabin. So there it's likely to be still real.

The elevator Dale took to get to the lake bottom was also real

the moment of reaching the bottom was depicted on Dale's mural in The Cave

[turbid heath]

Hmm

Man I love these games

[azure bay]

And here I return to things I wanted to explain yesterday

on that mural Dale reached the big white cube we was found in the ending

"Dale's journey is about to start", said Owl

Paradox takes place while Dale was chained to a chair in that cube

The Cave ending was repeated by the secret one of Ch2 of Paradox

Dale gets the golden cube and takes the elevator

In The Cave Dale was still unconcsious

[floral mauve]

speaking of that

controlling golden cube is one thing but creating it seems to be quite simple

[azure bay]

So I think that ch2 was the reality blending into his dream

[floral mauve]

golden cube factory?

thats human harvest on another level

memory level

[azure bay]

You just need more cubes containing elixir formula

[floral mauve]

oh

nvm

[azure bay]

another detail

in The Cave ending Dale was semi-corrupted

he still is both in Birthday in Theatre while he rides the same elevator

the one from Hotel

and even in the Hotel game was a prophecy of Dale taking that elevator ride from the bottom right to the hotel

[floral mauve]

but is that how golden cube is able to form?

I dont remember

where does it suggest that

on the cave mural?

[azure bay]

Laura's cubes bare the elixir insignia

Another confirmation that the formula is still among her memories

And this is Caroline's formula

seemingly results into a cube

[floral mauve]

ah yes now I remember

and how the f does one form blue cube

it should be a type of memory....

emmm

[azure bay]

well

[floral mauve]

hallucinating memory?

[azure bay]

in case memories are idealistic, blue cubes may contain the time itslef

[floral mauve]

dreaming about what if my parents didnt die

[azure bay]

the notion of time is strong

they make clocks go backwards

[floral mauve]

yes

[azure bay]

a clock is depicted in the book

[floral mauve]

if its in his mind

or memory

he can do whatever he wants

he basically tricked himself into believing that and form a blue cube

[azure bay]

if they didn't have any use in reality, there wouldn't be any reason for them to exist

[floral mauve]

thats a weak hypothesis

[floral mauve]

wdym

dreaming is good for mental health sometimes

[turbid heath]

Cubes are less concentrated moments in time and more facets of moments, since their essence can fundamentally change as the viewer's opinion on them does

It's possible distilling the time aspect of a cube nets a blue cube

[azure bay]

blue cubes exist in reality. There must be purpose for them in reality. It's easier to assume it's the same they have inside memories

[floral mauve]

obviously it can be extracted as a form of memory

[azure bay]

maybe. But how did they get there in the 1st place?

[floral mauve]

who is they and where is there

[azure bay]

blue cubes

ah

sry

misread your msg

[floral mauve]

my hypothesis is blue cubes is basically the imagination memories that the owner wants to believe in, then it becomes a memory

since the owner remembers the imagination

[azure bay]

seems too complicated for me and based on nothing

[floral mauve]

this is weak

but it is an explaination for blue cubes

[floral mauve]

well we dont know much information about blue cubes except its a memory and can change the past somehow

I draw this explaination from there

[azure bay]

I'd prefer to wait for more evidence rather than having a weak explanation.

[floral mauve]

qwq

[azure bay]

Religion, unlike science, explains everything

every single gap in knowledge can be filled with some greater will

until someone who doesn't take this explanation finds another answer

[floral mauve]

I dont even know if the devs will go back to blue cubes one day

since we have golden cubes already

[azure bay]

The Golden Cube is the climax

[floral mauve]

maybe the next hope of seeing blue cubes is in Laura's future games

since she somehow revives

[azure bay]

basically what I was going to say

as for now

[floral mauve]

2025?

[azure bay]

we don't really know where blue cubes come from

but we have clues on what they are

they are connected to time

a clock insignia

another clock when you look inside one

making clocks go backwards

[floral mauve]

the will of going back to past

[azure bay]

clocks are not past

they are the time

[floral mauve]

but we are talking about the blue cubes

it makes time go backwards

[azure bay]

but when we look inside one we can manipulate the hands as we like

e.g. going backwards is not necessarily the only purpose

[floral mauve]

but thats the only evidence we currently have

there is no suggestions for other purposes

[azure bay]

dude, I just gave you another evidence

[floral mauve]

other than golden cube formation and going back in time

[floral mauve]

clock?

[azure bay]

inside the cube

[floral mauve]

but cube was inside the clock

[azure bay]

what r u trying to say?

[floral mauve]

in birthday

[azure bay]

I still don't get your message

[floral mauve]

?

blue cube was inserted in the clock

[azure bay]

and?

[floral mauve]

the time was going forward

but instead going backwards

[azure bay]

ehm

[floral mauve]

which suggests that

blue cube is making time going backwards even though its in a twisted memory

memory cube in a memory

its like building a computer in minecraft that is in a computer

[azure bay]

wrong you are

in Birthday time was going backwards after cube insertion

[floral mauve]

yea

thats what I am saying

perhaps my English grammar confuses ppl

[azure bay]

ok, they were going backwards

but once again, it may be not the only use

because inside the blue cube time goes however we want

[floral mauve]

bruh

thats based from nothing

we dont know the future

but we do know the past and how to sort of imagining the consequences

of changing the past

like how the parents will react

[azure bay]

it's just not imagining

and future memories are canon

[floral mauve]

what

memories are about past

no matter which one

[azure bay]

and we have Hotel

[floral mauve]

otherwise its not called memory

its called future prophecy

[azure bay]

"The memories are not only the key to the past, but also to the future"

I was the one to start calling it prophecy because it's easier to explain

and a shorter term

[covert wyvern]

I think that's actually a pretty solid take

Calling "future memories" prophecies, I mean

[floral mauve]

its just a general idea

its simply not memory if its in future terms

[azure bay]

in Hotel it was told about that white cube

[floral mauve]

the hotel we dont know much about it

[azure bay]

do we need to?

Here's a cube, it shows the future, Owl tells that the memories are key to the future and asks to take a look

It can't be more literal, can it?

[floral mauve]

but how it works we dont know

its a giant ass white cube

and somehow created by the memory by 5 guests

[azure bay]

I don't think it's bigger than many other cubes

Or that size matters

Another possible example

After acquiring thr blue cube Laura could access any point in time she needed

From then on she could not only go backwards but also skip the cubes

[somber flame]

Ok so lemme just paste the thing here

Helloo, I just rewatched and replayed the Paradox stuff and was wondering if the fact that both real life and game versions of Dale see each others version has any meaning

[floral mauve]

the devs confirmed the alternative timelines

last summer

which means Dale's choices in Paradox may split into two timelines

[somber flame]

right so the movie version is also legit?

[floral mauve]

if he escapes from the paradox

[floral mauve]

I dont think in the movie he escaped from the paradox

did u know about the easter eggs

in chp1 and 2

they are possibly the true ending

the normal endings of chp1 and 2 are loops

[somber flame]

Right so probably the game is still the main one, and the fact that he sees another version of himself is just part of the paradox thing happening in his mind

[somber flame]

i did not!!

[floral mauve]

yes

go check out

its an enlightenment

[somber flame]

how do i access them??

if i may ask

[ivory girder]

do the achievements

[covert wyvern]

you can access the secrets by -

ye

[somber flame]

damn

im bad at those but i'll try

[covert wyvern]

the movie and the game are linked not just in cameo appearances

[floral mauve]

if u dont know u can always search online for walkthrough

[ivory girder]

it may take a while or u can just search it on google

[somber flame]

right, but also the satisfaction of figuring it out yourself is unmatched

[floral mauve]

yes

indeed

[somber flame]

thank you for the info!!

[floral mauve]

[azure bay]

The movie seems to be another iteration of the Paradox loop. It starts right after ch2.

[astral frost]

Was it in a post? I don't remember it

[floral mauve]

No it was the q and a section I had with Robin

[turbid heath]

ngl but wog is kinda cringe in all its forms

[vague imp]

So my understanding is that white cube = memory they are at peace with, black cube = memory they can’t move past, blue cube = lets you change the memory, gold cube = ???? What are your theories on the gold cube

[azure bay]

white cubes = positive memories
black cubes = negative memories
blue cubes = time
the golden cube = elixir

[vague imp]

Wait how do we know the gold cube is the elixir

[azure bay]

@vague imp how would you explain these scheme?

[turbid heath]

Gold cube is the future iirc

Like, it lets you change the future

My assumption is it gives you precognition

[azure bay]

Ok, and how would you incorporate the page I've just shared?

[turbid heath]

The elixir gives you precognition alongside immortality

like i swear somewhere in one of the games it was said the golden cube lets you change the future

[azure bay]

It was said differently

"the memories are not only key to the past but also to the future"

[turbid heath]

Then again, maybe the future-changing is because, like, you're immortal, so you live long enough to affect things directly?

no, i meant another line

but i dont remember which one or where, crap

this is gonna bother me

[azure bay]

I tend to remember all lines that matter

The only 2 lines concerning cubes and future are:

[azure bay]

This

And
"we need them [the memories] for our future, the full elixir"

@turbid heath I'm sure this phrase is rather metaphorical

The Golden Cube is the thing that makes the future defined by the fate happen

Just like Caroline's memories were for Jacob

Only the cube in Hotel was literally showing future memories

[azure bay]

I have a funny question

supposing, I'm a newcomer that plays games in the release order

from time to time I see the woman but don't know her name yet

then I play Roots and see a child wrapped in clothes reminiscent of Laura's dress

Is it fair to call "the woman is a Vanderboom" a theory before I see her name revealed in The Cave?

[floral mauve]

but whats the point though

[azure bay]

a somewhat academical theory definition

[floral mauve]

BRUH

this is no longer a theory if its confirmed to be true

[azure bay]

then we need define what being confirmed is

for Laura's name it's simple

[covert wyvern]

simple; if its spoken in a videogame its confirmed

[azure bay]

well, it's spoken that Laura changes her past in Seasons and her Fate in The Lake and many people still don't accept any form of time travel or reality bending

[covert wyvern]

fair point!

Nah I think you raise an interesting point

but personally I think anything is a "theory" until we hear it from the devs / see it in the games.

[azure bay]

I also tend to do that

yet sometimes not taking things we see literally works better

[covert wyvern]

ye that seems fair.

[azure bay]

like Emma searching for Frank for a single season, sees the CS escape before it was meant to happen, writes a goodbye letter and does nothing for next 5 years

[turbid heath]

On a strictly epistemological sense, yes, it would be a theory

In fact, once it was confirmed, it would become a confirmed theory, alongside a fact

[azure bay]

and when, do you think, a theory becomes definitively confirmed?

[turbid heath]

That is a more difficult question

When, if ever, do we know something to be true?

[azure bay]

when it was said by the devs

or when there is a single way to interpret the seen

which is very rare

extremely rare, I'd even say

[floral mauve]

thats simply making shit complicated

u can always say oh its never confirmed

but the woman being Laura Vanderboom seem to be very confirmed

[azure bay]

that's one of the rare cases, I was talking about

we open a book, see her picture with the name

and no way to misinterpret it

well

frankly speaking, there is

yet it's very complicates things

[turbid heath]

no but like

i was poopin out my butt, my g

We know something is confirmed when it is confirmed

We don't need to bring philosophy into the corrupted memory time travel mystery series

[hollow igloo]

Tautological

[turbid heath]

Please no

[floral mauve]

yes

[turbid heath]

tauto deez nutz

[hollow igloo]

Lol

[azure bay]

confirmed is more or less subjective thing

[covert wyvern]

gottem

[turbid heath]

i'm not going into epistemology

[floral mauve]

as I said I see this completely useless to argue

since u can say even the RL universe is not confirmed

it can be Bob's fever dream

in a mental hospital

[covert wyvern]

thats honestly a pretty solid point

LMAO

[turbid heath]

is anything we game or be gaming but a dream within a dream

[covert wyvern]

I could buy it

[azure bay]

but there is difference between Laura being Laura and Laura changing the past for real. I want to understand this differece

[hollow igloo]

Metagaming

[floral mauve]

[floral mauve]

wdym by this

[turbid heath]

I remember I brought up "hey what if the entire series is Laura's dying dream post-suicide or something like that and she just likes Twin Peaks" and the general response was "no shut up we're not doing that, it's not silly week anymore"

[floral mauve]

I am starting to stray into the unknown theory logics

[azure bay]

everyone (or almost everyone) is sure that Laura is Laura despite a possibility of someone screwing up the book in The Cave but a good half of the community thinks that memories don't affect the reality

[floral mauve]

more than half

even I consider that

since reality affects and creates ur memory

not vice versal

[turbid heath]

who wrote the book

why am i still getting into this

[floral mauve]

ancient prophecy

unknown

[turbid heath]

i said i wouldnt

[floral mauve]

Lake

[azure bay]

y'know, It's nearly impossible to measure and my estimation is approximate. The idea is that there are 2 strong opinions opposing one another

[floral mauve]

maybe

[covert wyvern]

I can time you out for a while if you need a break 🙂

anyway who wrote the book is actually a pretty interesting story?

[floral mauve]

wait am I getting a warning qwq

[covert wyvern]

O NO

this was in response to

[covert wyvern]

this

sorry I shouldve replied

hahah

cuss like the book is written by someone with uh extreme knowledge of the vanderboom family?

mr crow? mr owl?

[azure bay]

dunno. Maybe Caroline, maybe Owl, maybe someone who came before them

[floral mauve]

maybe Owl makes sense

But the murals

idk

do u think there is a sort of ancient prohecy

or Owl simply becomes an artist

starts painting

[azure bay]

the murals are mostly an exposition tool that doesn't have to be real

[covert wyvern]

I would love for those murals to come back in a 20K BC game

[floral mauve]

and write books

[covert wyvern]

but I also think this is very valid.

[azure bay]

actually yeah, as I think about it...

[covert wyvern]

haha sorry its the easy link to make right

20K bc, cavemen, murals.

[hollow igloo]

That would be so cool

[covert wyvern]

obviously we don't know where that game is development wise

but I think its fair to bring it up in this particular case.

[hollow igloo]

Elden Cubes

[floral mauve]

maybe they are giving us not only one game next quarter but announce another demo for another game

[covert wyvern]

we'll have to wait and see! haha.

[floral mauve]

dont give me hope

[covert wyvern]

I don't know anything about games in development! haha.

[floral mauve]

I simply dont know what could be next after tpw

since I wasnt in the server when teasers are out

[covert wyvern]

I think the team has a few options

[sage token]

More Dale. Gimme Dale.

[covert wyvern]

the 20K bc game, obviously, the young laura game

[floral mauve]

Ah yes 2025

[covert wyvern]

an entire new game?

options options.

[floral mauve]

or decade

[azure bay]

that'd likely result into series end

[floral mauve]

I think the devs are gonna put Dale aside for a while

since it means the end of the series

and also hard plot choice

[covert wyvern]

ye they're right tbh

[floral mauve]

plus multitimeline

[covert wyvern]

Dale ascending pretty much wraps up the games.

[floral mauve]

its super tricky to continue the cube escape series

[azure bay]

it's harder to sell spin-offs after the climax

[covert wyvern]

you could 'reboot' the franchise from there, I wouldn't mind that direction

[floral mauve]

shhhh

[covert wyvern]

but ye.

[sage token]

I suppose that makes sense

[sage token]

I don't want to see Dale ascending, I want to see him still trying to comprehend what's going on.

[floral mauve]

he already did?

I believe

[azure bay]

can you elaborate a little?

[covert wyvern]

I think Lynns refering to Dale as a detective

[floral mauve]

since birthday and theatre are the process of comprehending

[covert wyvern]

so just more of him 'working the case' so to speak.

[sage token]

Yes

[floral mauve]

oh then case 23 is what happened when u try to be a detective

u get cubes and policeman killed

I believe twd is actually a nice source

to prove the detective process of Dale

in Bob's perspective

whether false accusation or the theatre thing

[azure bay]

well, they could further develop some in-between events

like theatre

[floral mauve]

emmm interesting

like?

also where did Dale get his files from

the pics of the lake

did Owl send them to Dale secretly?

[covert wyvern]

haha if they wanted to I dont think it would be difficult to simply make up more of Dale working the case to be fair.

[azure bay]

maybe

[floral mauve]

to pretend like "oh no I leaked the photo, detective is gonna find out"

then tell Mr Crow in the Mill

[sage token]

Didn't Laura like leave him the files or something. Before she went through the ceiling? Weren't they in a safe?

[azure bay]

but what we saw was Dale taking them from Laura's safe

[floral mauve]

oh thats true

but how Laura get those

[sage token]

Aye there's the rub

[floral mauve]

and how can we sure Mr Owl didnt put those in Laura's place

if Laura has those photos

does that mean she stayed not only in the cabin

she probably went around

explored the surroundings

However, if she grew up there, how can she not know the place

and that contest Fate is basically a trip for her to go home????

So many questions

I am sorry

[azure bay]

I was thinking that the Theatre episode is still very uncertain despite us having 2 perspectives on it

we can still argue why did Dale get there

[floral mauve]

can we see Bob as a reliable story teller

even though he got messed up memories for many times

I think he is still more reliable than Dale's memory

[azure bay]

yeah, at least more reliable than Dale. But their interaction is still lackluster

did he interrogate him?

was it his original intention?

did he arrive because of Rusty Lake in theater's title?

did he speak to Owl?

[floral mauve]

pain

since we dont know what happened after Bob shot himself

[azure bay]

and also that

was it real?

Did Dale see that?

how did he react?

how did he react on seeing Bob again?

[sage token]

I have a question about TWD. I heard about a scene that features The Policeman, but I didn't find that scene. Is it unlocked via achievements?

[azure bay]

it's one of those achievements

[sage token]

Ah. I'm just blooming terrible at completing achievements. I've replayed the same level like 10 times.

[azure bay]

wanna a hint?

[sage token]

Yes please

[azure bay]

tap a police car as soon as you see one and stay vigilant

[sage token]

Will do, thank you!

[azure bay]

speaking of which

how the hell did Dale know about CS and memory cubes?

this research is potentially interesting

[sage token]

Bob: murder
Dale: Hey man, got any cubes?

[azure bay]

you'll be surprised...

[sage token]

:o

[floral mauve]

files?

because that will increase the possibility of Mr Owl manipulated the files

if he can find the two cubes. I will give you storm

therefore, there must have been some sort of hint in the detective work

whether its in Laura's home or in the files

[azure bay]

We didn't the any other info there and plus it would be boring

[floral mauve]

But my assumption is actually logical

Since in twd he asked Robert

For the black cube

Rather than Robert just left it

[floral mauve]

As what I would expect before I play twd

[azure bay]

Dale had enough time to find more

[floral mauve]

Well it’s not like there is a rusty lake text book

It’s not easy chemistry for ppl to find out about white cubes and black cubes

They first appeared in Paradise that is not connected to the real world

[azure bay]

I'm not telling that would be easy

But that would make Dale smarter

[floral mauve]

Or Owl is smarter

He left the info for Dale to find out

Since Owl knew that Dale might be able to find the cubes

Which means he planned everything

[azure bay]

Realistically, the more he plans, the more likely it is to fail.

Just saying

And I like the idea of Dale being really worthy

[floral mauve]

Wdym

They plan a lot

Both mr owl and mr crow

[azure bay]

they do

but normally complex plans are realistically doomed to fail

[floral mauve]

But they are not normally

They are damn asura

[azure bay]

no evidence that it negates human factor

especially the one that concerns not them but the others

and they are really close to fail

the dog being in their possession is so damn lucky for them

[floral mauve]

But they know want to do

[turbid heath]

🔪

[turbid heath]

Could the hotel be but a dream within a dream?

[covert wyvern]

I think within the context of RL we have no choice but to accept that the hotel is real considering it has an entire game and also shows up in roots lol

[turbid heath]

🤔

[azure bay]

what exactly did you mean there?

[turbid heath]

Like

We know Paradise is a rural island by the time of the Day of the Lake

Then Hotel happens, and there's a hotel there, but I think it's fair to say most, if not all, of Hotel is weirdly metaphoric in some way

iirc the cabin is on the island, and there isn't much space there for a hotel afterwards, so the hotel seems to not be there again by the time Laura dies

The only other appearance I can remember is in Roots, which admittedly crimps my theory

[azure bay]

the cabin is just on a smaller island closer the the south shore

[turbid heath]

oh

[azure bay]

I see no problems with that since almost a century separates Paradise and Hotel

[turbid heath]

It's less about time for the hotel to be built and more like, the events themselves

Harvey and Aldous bring in the Eilanders in Asura form and then feed them to each other

[azure bay]

can you further elaborate on what makes it so unreal to you?

[turbid heath]

It just

Kinda is unreal

Like, Mister Deer is Nicholas, meaning Nicholas went from being a weird old cult leader and ostensibly the ruler of the Lake to being a researcher who is trying to steal bucketfuls of lake water to conduct research

I understand something like Pheasant and Rabbit using their humansonas to take up acting and prestidigitation as a hobby/business (with apparently some hitrabbitting on the side) but like, that's a bit weirder

[covert wyvern]

I dunno maybe they lost their memories after the events of the ritual.

[azure bay]

yeah, normally people don't remember their past lives

[turbid heath]

Jakob does

Or, at the very least, we are led to believe so

[azure bay]

he and Aldous used a different way to become asuras

Eilanders performed a ritual, and Owl consumed the elixir

that could be the reason why he preserved his memories and personality

probably his human form as well

[turbid heath]

Did Aldous forget his memories? He remembers his brother, at the very least

[azure bay]

no, he didn't

he also consumed the elixir

[floral mauve]

I personally see the Eilanders enter the next life after Paradise which is reincarnation, with differ birth date and no past memories unless be triggered somehow, the only gurantee from the lake they got by performing the ritual is to reincarnate as asuras in the next life

let me scroll some files

[azure bay]

what files?

[floral mauve]

ur map and official age document

[turbid heath]

oh crap they got files

[floral mauve]

no

its just a joking way of saying

so 1797 is the year the ritual performed

[turbid heath]

https://tenor.com/view/read-gif-9644850

[azure bay]

well, I do have some. Mostly screenshots for fact checking and unanswered questions

sometimes it takes a form of reddit articles

the thing is, the others tend to have more notes than me

[floral mauve]

1893 is the guest age and when they all died (fixed value)

now lets do some math

Pheasant: 34
Deer: 49
Pigeon: 39
Rabbit: 39
Boar: 52

interesting isnt it

[turbid heath]

that's uh

wait

[floral mauve]

I assume thats when they were born by using 1893 to deduct the age

so the time before that

[turbid heath]

pheasant 34?

[floral mauve]

are the time they spent in the samsara room

or somewhere similar

waiting for next life

[azure bay]

according to some we-hope-non-redundant promo post before Hotel release

[floral mauve]

its official source at least

[azure bay]

and I still have a nasty feeling it could be retconned

[floral mauve]

I have a nasty feeling that they will never go back to explain a lot of the lore related questions

which is fine

for our interpretation

[turbid heath]

man, so Gerard was the first to solve the Samsara puzzles by several years

[floral mauve]

I wouldnt say puzzle

its depending on the fate I guess

[azure bay]

or he could die 1st

[floral mauve]

indeed

I personally assume the Eilanders all died in 1797

[turbid heath]

I mean, he could, but does that mean Mr Owl kept everyone alive for several years after killing the member of the family with the least relation to him?

[floral mauve]

so its easy for lake to gather souls and deliver the "present" of Asura

[turbid heath]

Yeah, I think it's likelier Jakob ascended to a higher plane of existance and immediately used that power for violence

[floral mauve]

I think he studies first

a man with great mind use his eternal life time to study

and read

"how to build a hotel tutorial"

"successful business requirement"

[turbid heath]

maybe you would use your newfound godling powers to be a nerd but i am different

[floral mauve]

bruh

[azure bay]

Despite me hating theories of people being secretely related I'm very fond of the one that relates Eilanders and Vanderbooms. Because it greatly explains the substance of Pheasant's past lives.

And this theory heavily relies on Elizabeth living at least for several more years

[floral mauve]

also u have to learn how to use ur power

[turbid heath]

Also I think it's likely that, whatever the Hotel's status in reality or unreality is, it definitely wasn't raking in the cash

[floral mauve]

I dont get it

[azure bay]

which part?

[floral mauve]

what are u talking about in general

how to link Pheasant or Elizabeth

to Vanderboom

I probably havent seen that theory

[turbid heath]

Like, they couldn't even splurge on some nice beef to feed their guests, and their entire customer base at a certain point was a murder mystery gaggle of weirdos who apparently had to bring in their furniture

Not even furnished, I'll say

[azure bay]

I'm talking about Elizabeth surviving 1797 to make that cool theory work

[floral mauve]

which thoery

thats my query

[azure bay]

basically that Elizabeth is mother of the alchemists brothers

[floral mauve]

BRUH

this is dumb

[azure bay]

that what I thought before hearing it out

[floral mauve]

thats why pls continue

[turbid heath]

I mean, we all know Elizabeth is top five Rusty Lake waifus, but I don't think that's feasible

[floral mauve]

Damy is online

[azure bay]

It's based on Pheasant's past lives substance seen in Theatre and Case 23

[floral mauve]

hold up

what was the case 23 about

Pheasant

I probably forgot some details

[turbid heath]

is damy a rose purist or are they just simply above such mortal concerns

[floral mauve]

lady of the lake?

[floral mauve]

that means stay on topic

[azure bay]

Pheasant's skull giving access to a fetus that turns into a heart

[floral mauve]

oh em...?

did u play case 24

[covert wyvern]

O I mean Tirrene's sly remarks from a theories standpoint are obviously incredibly useless