🤔｜theories

[azure bay]

at least in the animal case

[floral mauve]

just ignore asura part

since it mostly show up as bird

[azure bay]

#asuras are people

[floral mauve]

just it

[floral mauve]

debatable

Unable to tell whether Asuras have gender

since in RL universe

its animals behaving like humans

but with superior powers

[azure bay]

racist

[azure bay]

sexist

[floral mauve]

maybe we should leave this topic

before Damy catches us

[grizzled bluff]

Nah, I'm here

[floral mauve]

FOK

[grizzled bluff]

But yes, please be careful where you're going with that.

[floral mauve]

cool

[grizzled bluff]

Not a compliment, please don't pit mods against each other.

[floral mauve]

ok

[azure bay]

1. any sapient species are technically people
2. their gender is declared in their very names

[grizzled bluff]

"Their gender is declared in their very names" that is... a very good point lmao

Mr. Crow, he/him

[floral mauve]

Mr Parrot doesnt exist except the server one

which is still...

sad

[azure bay]

I think it's just an exception to make the big reveal as clear as possible

[floral mauve]

yes

something is wrong with this damn parrot

lets say not wrong

but irregular

also

btw

I have seen a article

@azure bay I would like to ask ur opinion

How are we sure its The woman at The Lake

in CE

which seems quite obvious

but I still wanted to ask

[azure bay]

the only evidence I need is the timeline overview

it's was clearly stated there

[grizzled bluff]

Which timeline overview?

[azure bay]

the official one, since the very 1st version featuring just 6 games

[grizzled bluff]

Could you link it real quick? I wasn't aware of an official timeline, just the play order in Resources

[floral mauve]

but u still need to explain

I dont think in The lake there is anything specified

time

year

[azure bay]

I don't really get what you want me to expalin

[floral mauve]

Did we really play as Laura

in The Lake

plus did The Lake happen in 1969

so basically I read this article

let me summerise it

[azure bay]

(is it by any chance in Chinese?)

[floral mauve]

yes

thats why

I cant share it

let me try to rephrase his point

give me 5 mins

[azure bay]

@grizzled bluff that was the last official image

[grizzled bluff]

Doesn't this confirm it?

And yes, I refound the link
(http://blog.rustylake.com/updated-chronology/)

[azure bay]

In conjunction with arrows, yes

[grizzled bluff]

The chronology is fairly explicit in who's played where, at least to me. Useful 😄

[floral mauve]

oh nvm

if there is an official timeline

fuck this theory then

It was about Asura Harvey

in The Lake

[azure bay]

@grizzled bluff and here's my fanfic of it

[grizzled bluff]

So that's the fanmade one.

I can never keep them apart at a glance, even though it's fairly obvious based on the coloring XD

Theorizing is fun, but theorizing based on accidentally inaccurate info can get frustrating fast

[floral mauve]

btw in that article, it claims its Owl CS

murdered Laura

not directly

but affect her

[azure bay]

the coloring is pretty much official. I've taken the background color from SR ending

[high talon]

my peanut brain is deep fried reading this

[azure bay]

the only thing you need to understand are axis.

the vertical one is the release order

[high talon]

oh no math

[azure bay]

the horizontal one is chronological one

[grizzled bluff]

I meant it in the sense that a direct comparison between the two is fairly obvious XD

[azure bay]

can you tell me how?

[floral mauve]

omg

something interesting

so remember Seasons

When Laura changes the past

[azure bay]

(or at least thinks she does)

[floral mauve]

but getting rid of the flowers and plant Cactus instead

[grizzled bluff]

They look nothing alike.

[floral mauve]

I know

but listen

[grizzled bluff]

(Please go on)

[floral mauve]

the cactus appears in Case 23

BUT SHE IS STILL DEAD

oof

[azure bay]

well, cactus is just 1 step

[floral mauve]

yes

but can it be

She tried to change her past

but still got murdered

inevitable

[azure bay]

she's murdered until she uses the machine

[grizzled bluff]

We've seen her get murdered in distinct ways, so it's possible.

[floral mauve]

tbh I am not good at time travel paradox stuff

So my brain cant work

with this logic

[azure bay]

there are 2 major temporal theories in fiction

one changes the current timeline, the other one creates a new one

according to the 1st one, cactus indicates that Laura is still in progress

[floral mauve]

I think most people say those two are 1

because if u change the current timeline, it is already an alternative timeline itself

[grizzled bluff]

1. You change things, but whatever you changed was already a part of the past to begin with. (The classical time paradox)
2. You change the past for real and travel back to an altered future.
3. You change the past and create an alternate timeline/new universe, but the original one continues to exist

[azure bay]

that's not the case

because after creating a new timeline you theoretically could return to the original one which didn't experience any changes

[floral mauve]

I think we are in 3 according to the devs

multiple timelines

[azure bay]

I suggest you using a smart word chronoclasm for your point 1 :з

[grizzled bluff]

The point of language is communication, not using all the words I know.

Also I don't... think that's what that word means.

[floral mauve]

Miss Sammy, give me ur knowledge, enlighten me

[azure bay]

well, I pretty much could be wrong

[grizzled bluff]

Kay so, 1) would be best described as a causal paradox (aka, cause and effect are the same, it's a loop)

This is all I can find on chronoclasm from a source that I semi-semi-semi trust

But it doesn't link to any sources on its own so it's worthless

It also still doesn't mean the same as a causal paradox

[azure bay]

I was meaning mostly the 4th one

just without time travel causing itself

[grizzled bluff]

That's not the same though, and there's no source. It's all from free-edit dictionaries.

[floral mauve]

cool

thx

I feel educated

[grizzled bluff]

👍

[floral mauve]

Btw

something interesting

about Owl being a CS before Case 23

part 4

[azure bay]

wha?

[floral mauve]

Yes I know

this dude

said a lot of unusual shit

[azure bay]

you know what? you'd do a big favor to the community by translating the article

and publishing it, let's say, on reddit

[floral mauve]

but it is really...

unusual

his approach only overlaps 30-50% of ours

which is scary

However, since u guys have the Official timeline

so.. it is unlikely for his theory to be true

[azure bay]

I'm here not to prescribe people what to believe

[covert wyvern]

• even if it's unusual it would be cool to have something like that to read either way.

[azure bay]

I'm here to describe their existing beliefs and evaluate their evidence

[floral mauve]

oh gosh

His article is unbelievebly long

and very dark

[azure bay]

can you count words?

[floral mauve]

he makes the worst possible approach

like Owl CS, competition between Crow and Owl

[floral mauve]

I would say 2000 words

or even more

actually, definately more

his article is timeline

which includes everything untill TWD

since his article published in 2018

How about I dm u the link and u read it by using google translate @azure bay

and u can ask me for any part u dont understand

[floral mauve]

right click in chrome browser

[azure bay]

I'm afraid, google will fail

[floral mauve]

I tried it

I can understand 70%

or 75%

[azure bay]

I'd really appreciate a human translation. Can I ask you making it bit by bit?

[floral mauve]

god dammit

ok

but

not untill Friday of next week

because I have an essay due on next Wed

Now its slightly off topic

so I will save that article

[azure bay]

what about your docs on Laura?

[floral mauve]

same problem

I have so many shit

sorry

my time is limited

I need a Dale

(its like TPW, I gotta postpone it for some time

[azure bay]

no, I'm not rushing you

I'm just worried that you aren't very interested in doing all these stuff

[floral mauve]

I am

but I am also doing a busy degree

which is really sad

I really want to have a huge project that I will be proud of

RL related

since I cant draw any fan arts

so I will go for gathering theories

[frozen pier]

ive beat roots and uh

its weird

very

[sage token]

I didn't beat Roots but I watched how it ends and yes agreed xD

[azure bay]

have you beaten a secret level?

[frozen pier]

no

ive just done 1 walkthrough

im looking forward to replaying

[azure bay]

secret level doesn't require you to replay

it reopens some older levels and adds new mechanics to them

which lead you to the bonus one

with huge lore reveals

[floral mauve]

yes

and its quite fun

the secret level

[bronze prism]

And hard 🤨

I spent some hours to get the cubes and the elixir lol

[slow ridge]

Yea, I say what we have confirmed. The life expectancy of the gray african is of 22 years aprox. so, for a parrot, Harvey is pretty ancient, but I also believe that she is way older than that, maybe that she was created alongside the lake. We can confirm that she is more than 185yo because she appears in 1796 (Paradise) as an adult parrot (If we assume that she hatched from an egg and was a squab once)

[bronze prism]

So

You

You searched all this-

[azure bay]

There is difference between old and ancient. There is also difference between ancient and relatively ancient

And do you count age if you are first reborn as asura and then reborn back as a parrot?

What about Harvey coming through decades to deliver a letter or perishable flowers? Isn't ot a time travel?
Couldn't Paradise appearance also be it?

[bronze prism]

Hi

What's the topic of today?

Harvey's age?

[floral mauve]

technically, the concept of age is relative

because when u reborn, the age reset to 0

[nocturne yarrow]

OK, here’s a question- is there anything to contradict the idea that Harvey is an ageless, genderless guardian of the lake? Because to me it seems like they’re more of a constant than a fluctuating character.

Not to say they can’t be killed, but Harvey seems to find a way around death.

[azure bay]

We've never seen Harvey returning on its own

in 1894 it was Owl's sorcery

[nocturne yarrow]

Fair point. Nonetheless, I’m still sticking with the ageless part- there isn’t a single point in the timeline where Harvey hasn’t existed.

[azure bay]

you should consider that even the bravest guess 20000 yo is nothing in comparison to millions of years of Earth existence

[nocturne yarrow]

Then I’d just estimate that Harvey’s been around for as long as the lake has- nowhere near millions of years, probably.

[azure bay]

That's more plausible

[delicate atlas]

I personally think Harvey did exist for so long since they existed in Paradise when Coraline was alive and way before Jacob became Mr. Owl. And maybe because Harvey helped Coraline a lot before her death, Jacob/Mr. Owl decided to make them sort of his right hand and gave them some powers and duties concerning the lake's affairs (such as helping Emma Vanderboom, or sending a letter to young Dale on his birthday, or taking care of Laura.)

So that kinda proves they've been around for so long

But there's no official age ofcourse

[floral mauve]

I think the letter in birthday is written by Owl rather than Harvey because back then it is already a parrot

And normally

Parrot can’t write

[royal notch]

That memory is always unreliable, let's remember it.

[azure bay]

no evidence of Harvey being anyhow related to Caroline less so of Jacob being aware of that

[astral frost]

Off topic: RL Instagram page will release a special story every day until Christmas day

Today's story shows some codes

[azure bay]

these appear in #🩸｜general-chat even earlier

at least the one from yesterday did

[astral frost]

Got it

[bronze prism]

Can't he turn into the asura form

Oh, it was right after the owl spell right?

[floral mauve]

yes

[bronze prism]

Ohhh

[merry plume]

need someone to make a 3 hour in depth dive into everything rusty lake

i’d watch it

[unborn hull]

That would be wonderful

Although my brain would probably be fried by the end of it

[azure bay]

I'm afraid it's no way to do a recap that would be both objective & interesting

most of the lore are theories

[merry plume]

3 hour timeline theory video

[azure bay]

before someone have done such video, I propose you asking your questions here

[delicate atlas]

Good point

[delicate atlas]

Good point

[azure bay]

it's still hard to tell

on one hand, Harvey is well-trained

on the other one, Birthday is heavily altered from the start and thete could be no postcard whatsoever

[floral mauve]

There are many of those videos already

[azure bay]

hours long videos in English?

[floral mauve]

That’s why I feel there is a purpose in our project

[floral mauve]

Not hours

It takes 40 mins to summarise rl timeline

[delicate atlas]

Someone did an English timeline video

Wait I'll link it

[floral mauve]

Many ppl did

[azure bay]

RazzJazz?

[bronze prism]

RazzJazz rocks

[floral mauve]

But some stuff aren’t certain

[bronze prism]

I'm a sub

He's kinda missing tho, miss him

[floral mauve]

U are released hun👀

[delicate atlas]

Yes

[azure bay]

RazzJazz is pretty descent

[bronze prism]

Hhun?

[bronze prism]

Ya

[floral mauve]

Nothing

[azure bay]

Rusty Lake explained seems not that good

and I don't know any other YT theorists

[bronze prism]

Of razzjazz?

[azure bay]

no, the channel Rusty Lake Explained

[bronze prism]

He's missing, I think his head exploded while trying to understand RL

[bronze prism]

Oh ya

[bronze prism]

Mine did months ago

[unborn harbor]

goodness sometime i should maybe just sit down and record an explanation lmao

[azure bay]

what explanation?

[floral mauve]

In my community there are many

[unborn harbor]

mostly of the timeline and Canonical Events, keeping speculation to a minimum

[floral mauve]

And they are all above 40 mins

Quite long

Some of them are quite decent

[azure bay]

keeping it to minimum would render it dull, I'm afraid. There is a ton of stuff relying on speculations.

@floral mauve know anyone En speaking?

[floral mauve]

For example I didn’t know lacus fleo until I watched their videos

[delicate atlas]

Yeah, he makes it more confusing lol

[floral mauve]

Sadly no

[unborn harbor]

i'm quite happy to argue that there's a pretty solid amount of stuff to draw connections between without going very conjectural with it

[floral mauve]

My community has its own network, not international

[delicate atlas]

Off topic, but love your pfp, fellow jobro

[unborn harbor]

thanks! f.f. my beloved :-)

[azure bay]

a good example of what I mean is Eilanders' connection to the guests. The Wiki moderator didn't believe in that for years until I managed to convince him that this theory is popular

[floral mauve]

You are a Chad in the community

[covert wyvern]

wait there's just one person in charge of the wiki?

that seems flawed.

[unborn harbor]

hey, even sticking to the facts you can point out the correlation, y'know?

[floral mauve]

I am quite impressed that you are very active everywhere for years

[bronze prism]

Ya

[unborn harbor]

nah wikis should be collaborative fundamentally but some people get pretty precious about edits and like to slap that revert button

[bronze prism]

Years?

[azure bay]

at least recently.

[bronze prism]

Whoa

[floral mauve]

He has been in the RL raddit since the beginning

[bronze prism]

Waaaaaaaaa

[unborn harbor]

on the other hand i do get it in that sometimes you go on wikis and the trivia section is loaded with, uh... let's say less than relevant or canonical information

[floral mauve]

But anyway

Let’s go back

[azure bay]

that's not true

[bronze prism]

O

[floral mauve]

I saw the historical post

[covert wyvern]

I see, thanks.

[bronze prism]

So

He is

[floral mauve]

Shuuuu

[bronze prism]

Shut?

[azure bay]

I joined the community just in 2018

[bronze prism]

Shut what

[floral mauve]

Back to the theories

[bronze prism]

Me too

[azure bay]

that's the trend I like

[bronze prism]

No, I met RL in 2018

[floral mauve]

They have some vague stuff

In trivia

But the main point is actually not bad

[azure bay]

an example?

[floral mauve]

Friendly to beginners who want to sort out what’s happening

[unborn harbor]

can't think of many off the top of my head because i don't usually commit 'em to memory but if my brain serves some of the trivia bits on the patapon wiki were janky as hell. also the entire xenosaga wiki is just dreadfully written and hard to follow

[floral mauve]

Sometimes I can’t understand English

What is xenosaga

[unborn harbor]

(largely caused by a lot of it being written by the guy who got banned from the silent hill wiki for inserting one particular baseless theory into everything he edited)

xenosaga is a series of japanese rpgs known for having some very confusing lore

[floral mauve]

Oh

Ok

[bronze prism]

What's this

[floral mauve]

But we are talking about RL wiki aren’t we

[bronze prism]

What's this too

[unborn harbor]

i was asked about weird stuff in wiki trivia sections, i was providing examples from wikis that i remember lmao

[floral mauve]

I thought u mean RL trivia section

[bronze prism]

What's > "janky xenosagsa and panleton?

[floral mauve]

I think we are all gonna get bonked by mods

[unborn harbor]

regardless never mind me, i go on tangents a lot when i talk

[covert wyvern]

well ye this isn't exactly theory talk anymore

but general discussions about the wiki can be had in, uh, #🩸｜general-chat I guess it's rl related.

[floral mauve]

I can’t even tell what is this talk anymore

[bronze prism]

Ya

[unborn harbor]

haha i was mostly just following the thread after saying i should maybe, at some point, record a full explanation of the series timeline keeping speculation to a minimum to help keep people on track y'know? i think it helps to have a clean slate

[azure bay]

unless we finally start reviewing some related topic

for me one of the most confusing parts is the cause of the plagues

your thoughts

[bronze prism]

Yes?

No wait

The plagues was bc Caroline ded

Right???

That's the whole purpose of the game

[covert wyvern]

the plagues are tricky RL may have just tried something biblical to be "edgy"

[bronze prism]

🤨

[covert wyvern]

you could also just shelve it away as "lake magic" lmao

[bronze prism]

Wasn't it because of Caroline?

[bronze prism]

Wdym with edge

[azure bay]

It's strange however that they are accounted on the old cult well

[covert wyvern]

trying to be cool and mysterious.

[bronze prism]

They killed Caroline, she got mad and sent plagues

[bronze prism]

O

trying lmao

[azure bay]

what is the evidence of them being sent by her?

[floral mauve]

I would say it is due to false sacrifice

[bronze prism]

Oh ya

[floral mauve]

It is a mainstream idea in my community

[bronze prism]

Bet in straynut

[floral mauve]

The cause of plagues

Because in the legend, it says the the sacrifice was gonna be the first born

[bronze prism]

Ya

[floral mauve]

Caroline begged Nicholas

For an exchange

[bronze prism]

Was she first born?

Maybe was maybe not

Maybe if yes not who right?

[bronze prism]

Because if she is?

[floral mauve]

Which didn’t make them enlightened but turned out to be the cause of plagues

[azure bay]

even if she were that would be irrelevant for that family, I guess

[bronze prism]

Then it's not eight

[floral mauve]

Punishment from the lake

[bronze prism]

Ya

[floral mauve]

For false sacrifice

And above are the mainstream idea in my community

[bronze prism]

Yes

[azure bay]

but why The Darkness plague is considered periodical and associated with a holyday?

[floral mauve]

Could you rephrase it in a way that I can understand it easier

[bronze prism]

If she is the first-born?

[floral mauve]

I don’t remember the detail of that day

[bronze prism]

Or if she may be not right on this ?

[floral mauve]

As stated by nowhere, it’s probably irrelevant to the family

Eilanders

I think if you want to enlighten the entire family

[bronze prism]

O

[azure bay]

"The sun turns into darkness and the moon into blood before the day of the lake, the great and magnificent day" Like it happened many times before and actually a good thing

[floral mauve]

It gotta be the first born of the family

[bronze prism]

Oth

[floral mauve]

This is the confusing part for me as well

It should be a plague

Rather than ceremony preparation

[azure bay]

And also it's expected to share cause with other plagues

[floral mauve]

That’s contradicting

Which I don’t like where this is going

[azure bay]

It just means that something you believe isn't true

Or at least contradicting

[floral mauve]

Tbh

The last two plagues aren’t plagues

[bronze prism]

This works for you too (no mean to be rude)

[floral mauve]

They are ceremonies

[bronze prism]

Oh

I know what you mean

[floral mauve]

I have this doubt when I first time play it

[azure bay]

I don't deny it. He just believes that Darkness wasn't caused by Caroline

This could be the wrong thing

[bronze prism]

Oh I see

Understand

[floral mauve]

If the ceremony has to work because of the darkness

Then it should happen during sacrifice of Caroline as well

But it appeared due to the sacrifice of Caroline

Huge contradiction

[azure bay]

A good question:

[bronze prism]

O

[azure bay]

Did it appear before due to wrong sacrifices?

[bronze prism]

Wow my head hurt

[floral mauve]

Or simply time

[bronze prism]

But I'm still understand I guess

[floral mauve]

Monthly event

Or lake power?

[azure bay]

I'd say it's at least annual

At most once in 16 years

[floral mauve]

That’s why they kinda know when is the great day

[bronze prism]

O_O

[floral mauve]

But then

How can it be a part of the 10 plagues

This is a Fallacy

[azure bay]

Maybe plagues are a part of it?

[floral mauve]

But it seems like…. The eilanders experienced it for the first time

They didn’t know what to do

[azure bay]

David seemed aware of them enough to have prefetences

[floral mauve]

Orrrrr

Last time Caroline solved the plagues

But turns out that she has to sacrifice her son

Which is traumatising

[azure bay]

Btw a good point I didn't think of before

[floral mauve]

I can’t believe I can form my own logical theories

[azure bay]

Everyone can, I guess.

[bronze prism]

You good brain

[floral mauve]

And turns out that it was a part of a ceremony

[bronze prism]

Ya

Nah

[bronze prism]

I think this is special

[floral mauve]

I believe even though the plagues happen perhaps every 16 years maximum

Maybe not every time the family will finish the last plague

Maybe they finished the ninth and stopped

For example, Nicolas’s generation

As first born

The last plague seems to be optional

[azure bay]

Another thing I find confusing

Why would Nicolas' generation miss this option?

[floral mauve]

Maybe you gotta have a fat uncle to be boar

The positions must be filled I guess

Back than Gerald could be Rabbit

[floral mauve]

Since the masks look like they are super old

[azure bay]

Not for me, tbh

[floral mauve]

Idk

Maybe u are right

They might made the masks 16 years ago

They look old anyway

Since us as players can’t tell the age of the masks

[azure bay]

So

Does it mean that Caroline wasn't likely the direct cause for plagues?

[floral mauve]

Might be

If you want to make everything very logical

And natural

Some ppl also suggested that lake was hungry for memories and no one fed it

So it caused the plagues

[floral mauve]

Previously it was Caroline who fed the lake I guess

[azure bay]

Seems plausible. Let's take a deeper look

Let's still suppose that the plagues are all in a bundle

E.g. they took place in the past

Would the previous generations not feed the lake?

[floral mauve]

I had this idea before

every generation, there is one person who is in charge of the lake or at least know how to deal with the lake

like a priest

[high talon]

i heard priest!

[azure bay]

The lady of the lake))))))

[floral mauve]

BUT, Jakob is the next

Jakob is the lady of the lake Jr

[floral mauve]

but yes

certainly

[azure bay]

Actually... As I think about it, I assume they would purposefully not feed the lake in order to make its day happen

[floral mauve]

but it then contradicts

if Caroline knows how to feed the lake

The plagues will not form

The plagues would cause after Caroline is dead since no one knows how to feed the lake except finding her memories

only if, Nikolas stopped her feeding the lake

somehow

OHH hold up

I remember a theory I made 3 months ago

or 6 months ago

linked this

so basically, she first agreed the ceremony but then regretted that she has to sacrifice her son, so she tried to find the Elixir as an alternative way to fulfil the family, but its too late

she got the formula in the end but the family already started the ceremony

that was my theory half a year ago

[azure bay]

Wait

Why exactly do you think they don't know how to feed the lake?

They are aware of cubes

[floral mauve]

Caroline said that dont give them her memories

so maybe Nikolas only knows some of her memories

but not the most crucial one

that is under the well

[floral mauve]

they know what are cubes but they dont know where or how to get the cubes

[azure bay]

I don't see a link between Nicolas not knowing how to feed the lake & Caroline not wanting him get the cubes

[floral mauve]

do u think I added to much assumptions

[floral mauve]

but as u said

he doesnt want to feed the lake

he wants to make Jakob to come back

and sacrifice him

[azure bay]

And still that doesn't mean he's ignorant

[floral mauve]

maybe

this theory of mine should be like an novel related to RL

rather than a direct fact

[floral mauve]

for a more complete story of Eilanders

since it contains many....flaws I guess

or too much interpretation

[azure bay]

Let's rather get to Caroline not wanting to share memories

Why so?

[bronze prism]

Ya

[floral mauve]

yes

I agree

[floral mauve]

Idk I just feel slightly awkward with my theories

[azure bay]

No, thatvs not what I mean

Caroline clerly didn't want to share

"don't let them use my memories"

But what's the rrason for that?

And here we start theorizing

[floral mauve]

I believe that maybe she realised that her son cannot be avoided of getting sacrificed, so she gave up of sharing them the Elixir

[floral mauve]

Her memories contain cubes and Elixir

I think Elixir is more important for the family

[azure bay]

Now I start question even myself

Nicolas wants elixir... But why doesn't Caroline want to give it to him?

I'll reiterate

How would it spoil her plans on Jacob?

[floral mauve]

as I stated, it is possible that Nikolas didnt believe in Caroline since Elixir is like something new and u know, he seems to prefer the old fasion way

Sacrifice

its like new medicine

[azure bay]

Why would he bother finding it then?

[floral mauve]

maybe its about he wants to find about cubes for the lake in order to be the person in charge of the lake

I am starting to feel dizzy as well

[azure bay]

No

"I need her memories... I need to find..."

...elixir?

Or what?

[floral mauve]

or it relates to my other theories

Elixir brings a longer extra life

but Asura only extends a little

[azure bay]

And?

[floral mauve]

Maybe Nicolas not only does he wanted to be powerful, but also he wants to have eternal life

Since thats what Elixir means

[azure bay]

Elixir doesn't mean that

Not for Crow nor Owl

...

Would Nikolas know that?

[floral mauve]

but Elixir does mean eternal life

[bronze prism]

Ya

[floral mauve]

they also learned it after

but for Nicolas

he probably didnt know that much info

[bronze prism]

O

[azure bay]

Would he know that the Lake's enlightenment wouldn't bring the eternal life?

[floral mauve]

dunno

I cant answer this because it doesnt have any evidence supports it

[azure bay]

Then let's think about alternatives

[floral mauve]

We have two for now

[azure bay]

What could it be so different about elixir & the lake?

[floral mauve]

one is plagues are natural causes

other one is caused by hungry lake

[floral mauve]

I think I mentioned this many times

I tend to see Elixir as something artificial like our real word medicines

whereas Lake power is more natural but more risky and requires sacrifice

[azure bay]

And why wouldn't Caroline just let him have it?

[floral mauve]

(we had a long and nice convo today, but I really gotta have my dinner and figure out my essay which I havent started it and its due next Wed, we could always continue discussing it later)

this server is calm

we have time

we arent Owl

who has limited time

[azure bay]

Ok cya then

[floral mauve]

gn

[azure bay]

(but our time IS limited. Memento mori.)

[prime yew]

What if the samsara room is just you sleeping and its your dream?

[slow ridge]

That's why I think that Harvey's death is no more than a temporary obstacle.
The letter to Dale was written in 1939, way after her transformation (or death, following Nowhere's theory), which says that Harvey wrote the letter as a parrot, and not as an Asura. I don't know how this kind of rebirth works, but if it's like William's rebirth, Harvey shouldn't remember things like how to write. Her death in Seasons was, personally, symbolic. And I don't think that Harvey really died died in 1894.

[prime yew]

And my theory is probably ignored-

[bronze prism]

Let me read

[bronze prism]

Samsara is a stage of the wheel

If I'm not wrong, you need to pass through this

Like, you can't just stay in there

[covert wyvern]

Samsara room being a dream seems unlikely in the sense that we know with confidence william is reborn as laura and you play as william in SR

It's rebirth but visualised

[azure bay]

1. Rebirth doesn't always mean loosing memories. I'm not buying Jacob not dying in that fire yet Mr. Owl identifies himself as Jacob.

2. Harvey is a well-trained parrot. What's more she had around 50 years to learn writing before 1939.

3. Harvey's postcard may not exist originally. Bday memory was altered from the start to feature Owl's blue cube machine and presumably some other stuff that would make it work. If it was there originally, there wouldn't be need to return and change events in the 1st place Dale would save the day right then

[peak knot]

I think that birthday is only a memory of Dale (like theatre), and didn't really happened. Some things are incoherent and it's probably juste him hallucinating in the weird white cube underwater?

[azure bay]

but theatre DID happen

in TWD we've seen Bob's perspective

[peak knot]

Dale was not here if i remember well

[bronze prism]

I think he's talking about the memory being seriously distorted

[bronze prism]

Dale was there

[azure bay]

but he was. In a secret scene

[bronze prism]

Ya

[peak knot]

So it contributes to the theory that some games where we play Dale are altered memories, Bob didn't see everything we did in theatre

[peak knot]

ahh i didn't see the scene, that's cool

[bronze prism]

Ya

[lone glen]

Really? We play as Willam?

[bronze prism]

Very nice

[bronze prism]

kind of

Ya

[azure bay]

Dale exclusively hallucinates Paradox in that cube. Then he's put in an elevator going up and both Birthday and Theatre start and end with this ride

[peak knot]

and Dale is also really traumatised, so maybe some memories were chhanged even more ?

[bronze prism]

Ya

I think it's the whole purpose of CE theatre

[azure bay]

the purpose of Theatre is to teach Dale & the player samsara

[bronze prism]

Yes

[peak knot]

so, paradox happen before theatre and birthday and the last chapter of case23. Ok cool! but why do Mr owl and Mr crow do that ? :(

[bronze prism]

I mean no purpose

Idk how to call

[azure bay]

Paradox happened after Case 23

[bronze prism]

It's a fact dunno how to call send help

[azure bay]

their motivation is explained in The Cave & Paradox that take place simultaniously

[peak knot]

but why does he go into an elevator in the end of case 23?

[azure bay]

these are 2 different elevators going in different directions

[peak knot]

If they already have the gold cube, why do they put Dale in situations like birthday, that's my question

[peak knot]

ok cool thanks

[bronze prism]

WHAAAAAAAA

I never noticed that

[azure bay]

the golden cube is not a goal but a mean

[bronze prism]

GOD nowhere you GOOD brain

[azure bay]

plz call me nowhere

[bronze prism]

Oh

Ok

[peak knot]

ok ok

[bronze prism]

Sorry called you bc it was shorted

Yes I'm lazy :I

[azure bay]

no hard feelings. I just prefer nowhere or nwh

[bronze prism]

Nwh thanks

[peak knot]

I just had another question, how old do y'all think Harvey is?

[azure bay]

about 22000 yo

because there was a game of 20k BC announced

and Harvey was recently called ancient

so I expect to see the bird there

[peak knot]

yeah so WAY older than Mr Owl (and Jacob)

[azure bay]

returning to Dale's timeline, I'd like to elaborate on my evidence

[peak knot]

I love Harvey's character and I hope we will have more things about them in the future

[bronze prism]

Oh yes

I love Harvey too (but my favorite is crow crow)

[peak knot]

I love him too.

[azure bay]

Case 23 ends with the elevator going down.
In The Cave we see a mural of Dale reaching the bottom and walking into a big white cube.
In that cube dale becomes half-corrupted, gets the golden cubes and starts his elevator ride to the hotel.
In Bday & Theatre he's still riding and he's still half-corrupted

[peak knot]

But I really want to know why they joigned Jakob, and if they were the first one to knew about immortality

[bronze prism]

God

Please send help

I'm gonna scream rn

[peak knot]

ah, yes, it seems clear like that

[azure bay]

just attentive to details

[azure bay]

I'm not sure if immortality is a real thing in RL universe

[bronze prism]

They make a lot of difference lmao

[bronze prism]

Is amortality real in RL?

[peak knot]

and when did dale become corrupted ?

[peak knot]

that's another question too

[azure bay]

semi-corrupted*

[peak knot]

but if Harvey is THAT old, they must know about alchemy or other things to live that long ?

[bronze prism]

So

[peak knot]

my boy dale really went trought some shit

[azure bay]

I think it was just a bird for the majority of time

[azure bay]

I think this shit has a name and the name is Paradox

[bronze prism]

Is amortality real in Rusty Lake universe?

[peak knot]

yeah lmaoo

[bronze prism]

At least something proven to be a fact?

[azure bay]

Crow was searching for immortality and thought he reached it. Yet in The Cave he's already weakened

I think Owl thought the same

[bronze prism]

I think more of something like: a character don't die from aging

But die from other causes

Like a bullet in the chest from an old man

[azure bay]

but ALdous in The Cave is older than Aldous in Roots

[bronze prism]

||boom haha||

[azure bay]

so is Jacob

[peak knot]

actually, we only know about some people in RL universe but not the whole humanity. And as we saw in roots, it takes a LONG time to ressucitate someone

[bronze prism]

Oh yes

I think my English is wrong lmao

I don't mean they don't age

I mean they don't die from natural causes

[peak knot]

dont worry, i'm not even english

[bronze prism]

Not specifically mr. Crow and Owl

[azure bay]

I disagree. It rather takes long to resurrect a corrupted soul

[bronze prism]

Me neithar 😔

[azure bay]

Harvey was resurrected momentarily in the secret scene of Birthday

[azure bay]

almost no one is and that's ok

even a good thing

[peak knot]

lmao yes

[bronze prism]

Momentarily?

Hey another question

Like, Harvey was killed in seasons

[peak knot]

yeah but can they even ressurect a normal person i must say?

[bronze prism]

When Laura came back and saved him, another universe was created or just the timeline of the same universe were affected?

This means a lot bc if only the timeline were affected then Harvey is still alive

[azure bay]

the universe follows the laws of samsara which states that everyone will be reborn corrupted state is just an unusual one

[peak knot]

omg i can't write a sentence i forgot one word

ok

[bronze prism]

?

[azure bay]

we don't know

[bronze prism]

Oh

[peak knot]

travels in time are a big mess
we can't really know the rules of it in RL

[bronze prism]

All we need is a confirmation

[azure bay]

what kind of it?

[peak knot]

true
but people can still die
their soul just don't die

like, maybe william is reborn, but Laura is not william

[bronze prism]

Red rusty lake discord users, hear our pray 😔 could Harvey be added to another future game, we have an excuse 😔 👍 /j

[bronze prism]

If he's added to a future hame

Then it's timeline changed

[azure bay]

but Laura still has William's elixir memories somewhere deep

[bronze prism]

If not, every time we get further in time the chances decrease

[bronze prism]

That's my point

Another quickly question, do we have a confirmed paralell dimension?

[azure bay]

And Owl who clearly died as Jacob has his memories on the surface

[peak knot]

true

but Mr Owl is a special case

[azure bay]

what I'm trying to say that everyone gets reborn at some point with access to past-life memories or not. Even corrupted souls do, I guess. It just takes a long time for them and since they suffer just by existing they are eager to fast-forward their rebirth

corrupted souls are technically pretas

hungry ghosts that are unable to be reborn until they suffer enough to clean their karma (at least in Indian mythology)

[peak knot]

yeah it makes sense

[slow ridge]

Oh nono, Birthday happened! It was a traumatic event and Mr. Owl had to modify it so Dale would be emotionally balanced. Or at least that's what I think. What didn't really happened was the second part, after Mr Rabbit broke in. Also the existence of the snow globe or the machine, and his grandfather saving the day.

[azure bay]

why exactly do you think that the changes didn't occur in reality?

[slow ridge]

Well.. no? I don't think Dale's parents are alive really.

[azure bay]

I already know what you believe

I'm asking why

[slow ridge]

Oh, well, probably because they would've started a kind of search for him? He just disappeared and anyone knows where did he go. At least with Laura, Rose knew that it was going to happen, but Dale's family is a normal family, even if "Vandermeer" translates to "From The Lake" iirc, I think it was just telling the future of Dale.

[azure bay]

ehm...

[slow ridge]

No way their parents did know

[azure bay]

I don't really get your point

why would they search for Dale?

why would he disappear?

[slow ridge]

Uh.. it's their son?

He's in Rusty Lake now, dreaming weird things and such

Unless there are two Dales

[azure bay]

ah

I think I get it now

[slow ridge]

I don't blame you, my English sucks

[azure bay]

you think his parents would stay alive till 1972 and after Owl kidnapped him they'd start searching for him, right?

[slow ridge]

Yeah

[azure bay]

I have 2 things to counter that

[slow ridge]

You always do

[azure bay]

1. they could still die some time before 1972
2. I think people would search for Dale even without them

[slow ridge]

Ohh yes those are good ones.

[royal notch]

That's why the enlighteneds are using the excuse of his bad mental state.

[slow ridge]

Excuse for what?

[royal notch]

For his disappearing.

[azure bay]

hmm

that's a good assumption, I'd say

[royal notch]

That's what i came up from Paradox.

[azure bay]

they could use their network of mental health institutes to cover Dale's traces

[royal notch]

After all, the hotel is a mental health centre...

[slow ridge]

So, the enligtheneds said to Dale's parents that he disappeared because they're fixing their bad memories of them being killed? Unless you mean to everyone, other people than his family that would look for him

[azure bay]

it's enough to say that he's got insane

however

[slow ridge]

Yeah I guess

[azure bay]

in parent's case, their death would be the cause of that insanity

[royal notch]

Exactly the excuse of "Doctor Mr Crow" in Paradox.

[azure bay]

don't you see a problem?

[floral mauve]

I am pretty sure Dale’s parents were killed during his birthday

[slow ridge]

I personally believe that Dale became a murder detective because of the murder of his parents. If he looks at dead bodies all the day I think he slowly becoming insane it's a good excuse

[azure bay]

we're thorizing on what if Dale've saved them

retroactively

[royal notch]

Alright, tell me It.

[sage token]

Aye, I think so too. Because there was a newspaper article. Although, that was in Paradox the fever dream, if memory serves

[azure bay]

if parents are alife, a cause of his insanity doesn't exist anymore

[floral mauve]

That’s…. Very unlikely

[royal notch]

That's why i think they died.

[floral mauve]

Yes

[azure bay]

Seasons seems to be exactly the same case. And I trust seasons

[floral mauve]

That’s why from a logical deduction

[sage token]

Can you not face palm every time someone proposes a theory? It's not good for morale

[floral mauve]

His parents are dead

[azure bay]

and here we return to the initial question

Why do you think so?

[floral mauve]

I am so confused with your point, u think his parents are revived or not

[slow ridge]

Exactly, you can just facepalm to my bad English! This is a channel to propose theories, we don't know if Dale parents are alive, and we're discussing it!

[floral mauve]

I agree here

[azure bay]

It's not important what I believe RN. I'm reviewing possibilities

[floral mauve]

Which means I don’t think his parents are revived

However

There is a possibility of motivation

Owl might try to make Dale think that, deva can change the past

[azure bay]

I think you are confusing cause to consequence

[floral mauve]

How so

[slow ridge]

Nowhere, you proposed the idea of Dale's parents dying before 1972. That wouldn't be a valid case of insanity?

[azure bay]

because, I assume, it would be due to natural causes while he was was already grown-up and had a happy childhood

[slow ridge]

Oh, well, trust me when I say that's equally horrible.

[floral mauve]

But..he did have psychological issues

[azure bay]

but he is stronger

[azure bay]

you don't get me

[floral mauve]

[azure bay]

the goal of Birthday is removing that strongly negative experience from Dale's life

[floral mauve]

Yes

Agree

That’s why birthday is likely to be less biased than we think

[azure bay]

if that means his parents not dying to raise him, their further death wouldn't be as painful as it was originally and wouldn't likely lead him to asylum

which could be an excuse for kidnapping Dale

[floral mauve]

The biased part: the present, letters and possibly the existence of grandpa

[azure bay]

wdym by biased?

[floral mauve]

They didn’t exist before

In the real event

[azure bay]

that's not what this word means

[floral mauve]

?

Are u sure

[azure bay]

"unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something"

[slow ridge]

I think that Birthday was Dale's mind, his parents are dead one way or another. I think that the idea of surviving and dying before 1972 is not better, and makes no sense.

[floral mauve]

Yes

[sage token]

His friends probably think he's at a mental health facility oh nooo

[floral mauve]

Unfairly prejudiced memories

Biased memories

[azure bay]

a person can be biased, not their memories

[slow ridge]

Mhm.. off tooopic

[azure bay]

memories in that sense of yours, I think, are altered

[sage token]

Eh...I would argue that I do have memories of things that didn't really happen, but I thought did.
They were mostly dreams.

But I thought they were real

[azure bay]

that's not what bias is

and what biased means

[sage token]

Then what do you mean by biased?

[slow ridge]

#🛖｜the-cabin , please

[sage token]

I thought that we were discussing theories but aight

[slow ridge]

Yeah but exactly not the theory of the meaning of a word.

[royal notch]

Come on, who cares? Let's just use the right word next time.

[covert wyvern]

Within the current context the discussion on memory is fine.

would it go further from RL, yes going to #🛖｜the-cabin would be a good idea.

that's all on that matter!

[azure bay]

@floral mauve why exactly do you believe that Dale's alterations didn't happen in the reality?

[slow ridge]

Back to lore, I think it's more probably that Dale's parents are dead. They died in birthday and Dale remembers otherwise. Other people knows about his investigations at Rusty Lake, why would they suspect of his disappear and not just being in Rusty Lake investigating? From Case 23 chapter 2 to 4 there wasn't a year

[azure bay]

nobody knows what Rusty Lake is

[floral mauve]

Sometimes I wish Sammy is near

[covert wyvern]

@floral mauve Why?

[floral mauve]

She can explain biased

As an English teacher

[royal notch]

Again??

[slow ridge]

Please, take the biased topic to #🛖｜the-cabin

[floral mauve]

I believe Birthday is a biased memory

It is related

Not off topic

[covert wyvern]

@slow ridge I'm going to ask you to not minimod, thank you.

I have this covered.

[slow ridge]

yes yes, sorry Damy.

[burnt inlet]

@covert wyvern do you ever sleep?

[azure bay]

teaching English grammar and knowing cognitive science terms in English aren't always correlated

[covert wyvern]

@slow ridge I appreciate you looking out for the cleanliness of the server though.

[floral mauve]

That’s fine if u guys find it disturbing

I won’t bring it up

[slow ridge]

I just don't feel like pinging for such little problems

I'm going to leave for now, see y'all around!

[covert wyvern]

o/

[azure bay]

altered memory*

but why do you believe so?

[floral mauve]

???

[azure bay]

why, according to you, memories can't affect the reality?

[floral mauve]

Oh

Here we go

I see reality as something objective

we have other proves for a certain event

like Dale parents' death

from his child trauma, to his profession and newspaper articles

[azure bay]

aren't alterations of Seasons real as well?

[floral mauve]

I cant say it on this

I never truly believed that Winter happened

[azure bay]

but Birthday is much like Seasons. Someone's hopping into cubes, relives the events how they were, rollbacks time after getting a blue cube and alters the following events

[royal notch]

But both Seasons and Birthday were memories.

[azure bay]

once again, why?

[floral mauve]

objective reality

In reality, Laura is still a corpse

In reality, Dale's parents are still dead

[azure bay]

did you see it?

[floral mauve]

We pretty much saw it in Case 23 and The Mill

[royal notch]

But not at that time.

[floral mauve]

but if you rethink about it

if she managed to change the past start from spring

[azure bay]

winter takes place 10 years after

[floral mauve]

nothing will happen

[floral mauve]

she went back

to Spring

in the end

[sage token]

Are you saying that there was no actual time travel involved?

[azure bay]

because her misery started in spring and that doesn't relate to reality of winter or lack thereof

[floral mauve]

lets say if winter happened, whats the point if she cant go back to spring

[floral mauve]

we are assuming the function of blue cube

[azure bay]

I want to underline 3 things you keep ignoring

[sage token]

And the function of the blue cube is time travel, isn't it?

[floral mauve]

I would say, to change a miserable memory

[azure bay]

the devs made clear that the past isnt past, that you can change all you touch and you can change the past with a machine

[sage token]

But Harvey died originally, killed by Laura, and time travel changed that

[azure bay]

some think it didn't happen as well

[sage token]

I-

[floral mauve]

we focus on the reality, if Dale's parents are still dead in reality and Laura is still a corpse

then those didnt happen

or happened in another reality

a new timeline

which devs also stated

[azure bay]

that's a viable option

and lets the subjective reality become objective

so the parents could also be alive in a different timeline

[floral mauve]

yes

[peak knot]

This ^

[tiny solstice]

Wasnt samsara room focused on going to diff realities? I mean there was a normal one, fish one, lizard one ect. So why not other games be abt different realities

[azure bay]

samsara room is about William's rebirth during the Roots ending

[floral mauve]

The game Samsara room is about that

samsara room is probably applicable for everyone

every time a soul dies

[azure bay]

does it contradict me in any way?

[floral mauve]

nope

but I want to make it more clear

[real lantern]

@floral mauve what do you mean with "knows about the gun after the blue cube change"?

[floral mauve]

he said

give me whats in the box

or something like that

I dont remember

[real lantern]

Yes, but he would know whats in the box normaly

[floral mauve]

no u dont get me, how did he know someone is coming to kill everyone

like Dale's dad said

How did u know?

[real lantern]

Oh

Yeah, that kinda makes sense

[floral mauve]

[floral mauve]

lmao

u can submit it in #🎨｜fan-creations

[lone glen]

Then I should change it a bit

[prime yew]

Yea true but the fishy avatar and lizard avatar 8n the mirror and all of it wouldn't make sense in reality so a dream makes sense

In*

[covert wyvern]

Ye it not making sense is fine in a outerbody reincarnation sequence too

[azure bay]

Why couldn't Dale tell him?

[floral mauve]

I would doubt

[azure bay]

Why?

[floral mauve]

as a grow man

especially old man

would believe a nine year old kid

on his bday

a rabbit dude is gonna kill everyone

[azure bay]

Dude this old man is the coolest grown up ever. Didn't you see his boogey?

[floral mauve]

lmao

plus he indeed has the alcohol recipe

I want to try gin & tonic

[red geyser]

Are there 2 Mr Rabbits??

[floral mauve]

2 mainstream idea

[red geyser]

Cause in Rusty Lake Hotel, while in Mr Rabbit's room(Brown rabbit) you can see a white Mr Rabbit outside the window

[floral mauve]

1. One rabbit in two forms, Asura and CS
2. two rabbits, but whats the purpose behind it

tell me what do u think

I would like to know

[red geyser]

I'm not sure, but unless it's like a magic trick from the brown rabbit, there are 2 rabbits at the same time

[azure bay]

the problem is, the white one is a ghost of the brown one from the future

[red geyser]

This is some Mirai Nikki shit hahahaha. But yeah, I see your point

[covert wyvern]

Ah but you see the white rabbit is actually dale from another timeline

[floral mauve]

[red geyser]

WHAT

[floral mauve]

Is this some joke I should laugh

[covert wyvern]

I'm half Joking

[floral mauve]

I knew it

but wasnt sure

[covert wyvern]

I think there's a whole bunch of evidence pointing at white rabbit being D eilander

[red geyser]

I'm half considering the possibility

[floral mauve]

this yes

reincarnation and recall memories

[covert wyvern]

I just personally have pondered the idea that Mr. rabbit is a sort of corrupted Dale enslaved to mr owls will

Granted that'll probably never go anywhere^

[red geyser]

Ok I'm not done replaying the games, I'm at Birthday now. Roots will be a nightmare to make sense of

[floral mauve]

enjoy them

no need to rush

good luck with your game play

[red geyser]

Thanks! I'm trying to record all the details I find