🤔｜theories

[high talon]

William pretty much gave his "seed" onto the next generation, if you get what im placing down

[floral mauve]

5 ppl at least die from that

[high talon]

sounds like a them problem

[floral mauve]

you are making it seems so nice

[high talon]

lmao thats how i see it, you can't prove me wrong technically..XD

[azure bay]

The tree was used in the rebirth ritual

[floral mauve]

I can, because of the existence of Laura

[floral mauve]

exactly

[azure bay]

I assume it was planned before drinking the elixir

[floral mauve]

so they know that whoever drunk the Elixir and failed the enlightenment will have a random poisonous seed formed from the dead corpse?

[azure bay]

Why is the seed poisonous tho?

[floral mauve]

I am just saying it in a joking way

[high talon]

that too but i think fr the seed could mean many things (not only one) i think the man eating tree is just the lake being corrupted/funky (a stream does flow from the lake into a river and it passes by the house (or rather near it) so lets assume theres something in the water turning the frogs gay i mean making everything corrupt

[floral mauve]

it is poisonous enough if it sucks ppl's organs

[floral mauve]

?

I am confused reading your paragraph

[high talon]

im saying the lake from the water made the tree sentient in a way

[floral mauve]

Oh

that

[azure bay]

I doubt that

[floral mauve]

you can still drink the river water

and be completely normal

[high talon]

i mean have you seen anyone try?

[floral mauve]

generations of Eilander and Vanderboom

[high talon]

no offense to you but are any of them normal?

[azure bay]

If the water was contageus, we'd see Vanderbooms & Eilanders keeping barrels

[high talon]

the water can be purified if you warm it up tho

[floral mauve]

their states were still human

[floral mauve]

BRUH

I doubt they do

Eilanders especially

[azure bay]

I doubt you can boil out dark magic

[high talon]

we never saw it happen so we cant deny nor confirm that ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[floral mauve]

you can say that the water contains too much mercury or lead

[high talon]

dfjikofd oh no

[floral mauve]

that poisoned their mind that drives them crazy

HAHA gonna sacrifice my son

[high talon]

that could happen lmao, i never luckily tasted mercury/lead filled water

[floral mauve]

ENLIGHTENMENT

[azure bay]

There's such thing as the burden of proof

[high talon]

but maybe they all do have mercury/lead poisoning didnt asbestos exist in old houses like that?

[floral mauve]

thats just too chemistry

I think

[high talon]

im like 90% sure they did (trust me i learned real estate for 3 years) so that is a slow killer too lmao

esp if you breathe it in

[floral mauve]

bruh

[high talon]

you say that so much its starting to get old

[floral mauve]

yes

maybe its not the childhood of Albert driven him crazy

this is getting too scientific

[high talon]

i mean Albert surely had brain damage

[azure bay]

TPW will reveal what did. The devs promised

[floral mauve]

mercury evaporation can cause that

[high talon]

he surely has smth from being given wine as a newborn baby

fetal alcohol syndrome my guys n gals

[azure bay]

I've heard it was a common practive to make children asleep

[high talon]

it was (trust me i would know)

[azure bay]

Either way I expect something grand. Grander than abuse from his siblings

[floral mauve]

put them asleep*

[azure bay]

I'll remember that thx

[floral mauve]

its a joke

bruh

put someones asleep is like when you bang someone's head using violence

[azure bay]

Ok

You do you

[floral mauve]

I think the same

[high talon]

i think that would instantly kill them in some scenarios

[floral mauve]

thats the reason I dont like Albert

just a bee hive

[azure bay]

Devs have explicitly said that NOT just a beehive

[high talon]

tbh Albert's a traumatized person who didn't get the mental help he needed (lets be honest mental health ""help"" was shitty back then))

[floral mauve]

I know

[high talon]

he would like get a lobotomy like Frank did give him one technically

[floral mauve]

they need to put much more details

about what drives Albert that insane

[high talon]

i think its a more show dont tell scenario w Albert n the RL devs

[floral mauve]

I guess that we should wait for TPW

[covert wyvern]

show dont tell is Rls playbook for most of the lore iReckon

[high talon]

i reckon?

what does that even mean lmao genuine question

[azure bay]

Recently it started to change

[covert wyvern]

here let google explain it for me.

[high talon]

ah

[covert wyvern]

fair! I mean that can't be helped, eventually you'll have to put some words out there

[floral mauve]

Guys I gotta continue my essay, I love the convo we had

[covert wyvern]

gl o7

[high talon]

GL

[azure bay]

I guess, the theorists could thrive without that & promote more theories they like with little to no limitations

If devs were completely silent

[high talon]

im sure they do view theories sometimes to see what the fans think

[azure bay]

Hi Robin

Please mind giving us a well-organized platform to facilitate your job

[bronze prism]

I forgot that tbh

[royal notch]

I read everything, and i found an interesting point: so, if someone die for the elixir, a special seed grow inside him? Like a collateral effect?

[azure bay]

not necessarily

the seed could appear due to other alchemical stuff the brothers would do in order to revive the sacrifice

[bronze prism]

All people who ate the elixir???

Omg we should make a list of those things

It's kinda short actually 😅

[covert wyvern]

hey @bronze prism just making sure you got this message: #🛖｜the-cabin message

[royal notch]

Yeah, effectively they could have done something before.

[bronze prism]

I think it's, William and Aldous, Mr. Owl, The dog, and only I guess

We only have 1 seed

So it's debunke

Debunked*

[bronze prism]

I'm not that scared for that, I just wanted to be fair and aways agree with the rules, they make this server working

Let's keep our theory?

Or maybe later? It's a very good theory though

[covert wyvern]

we just didn't wanna clog up the channel! hence the quick deletion

please do continue your theorising 😄

[azure bay]

what is?

[bronze prism]

The seed one

[royal notch]

We already closed that.

[bronze prism]

Yeah, I'm still reading

I hate when I lose a theory, I was sleeping this time

Miss*

[azure bay]

Really, despite it being mine I don't think it's good. It's more like an assumption with no strong evidence or whatever.

[bronze prism]

I love to theorise, that's why I came to this server 😅

[bronze prism]

But we can search

It's a fact that the tree has special properties

But we don't know exactly where these properties came from

I think the term "magic" is inappropriate for Rusty Lake 😅

If feels weird, idk how to explain

[bronze prism]

The tree has been responsible for the impregnation of Rose Vanderboom

However, we don't know if frank or leonard had been swallowed by the tree, because we never see them again

[azure bay]

On the contrary, I'd use it everywhere

[royal notch]

Agree.

[bronze prism]

Magic feels idk

Magic 😅

[azure bay]

ok, paranormal

[bronze prism]

I think we have different thoughts on these

[covert wyvern]

Magic is fine within the RL universe, lmao, tarot reading, vodoo, crystal balls, Alchemy

[azure bay]

is it better wording?

[bronze prism]

Paranormal activities in Rusty Lake 👀

[azure bay]

I really DOUBT they would perish. William's writings speak exclusively of 10 sacrifices without 2 whole extra bodies

[bronze prism]

Yes, I think my comment about this was deleted 🤨

Or I didn't posted in here

I'm trying to say that they don't appear nowhere anymore

[azure bay]

because, honestly, they are not that important

[bronze prism]

🥲

[azure bay]

Rose was at least Laura's mother & Albert's daughter. Both are either important or fan-favourite

[bronze prism]

They had their purpose

[azure bay]

& deserve more games than others

[bronze prism]

Yeah

How did frank spent so long in that pit

Couldn't he just scream or something like that 🤨

Albert is crazy bro

[azure bay]

1. he was minimally fed by Albert
2. some assume he was mute

[bronze prism]

Oh

No he's not mute

When he fall in the pit we can clearly hear him saying "AAAAAAAA"

[bronze prism]

Yeah, he was skinny

[azure bay]

If I'm not wrong, there are different types of muteness: physical & psychological
The former have their vocal organs damaged, the latter can't make themselves speak a word

But really can be wrong

like I didn't research it

[bronze prism]

Ohhhh

Oh Jesus Christ

[ebon aspen]

Quick question, more to confirm smth
Did albert continued to feed frank to make some kind of experiment? I really cant see a reason but this one

[azure bay]

Just torturing him would be another good reason

[bronze prism]

Jesus

[ebon aspen]

Oh ye, he could just want to have fun

Forgot we were talking about albert

[bronze prism]

Bruh

[azure bay]

some also assume that William was possessing the family or at least influencing some of their decisions. It could be him to make Albert spare Frank so he survives for the final stage of the plan

but I dislike William-in-charge theory

[bronze prism]

Bro, we play as William's CS

[ebon aspen]

Sometimes i think albert ended up creating some paternal feelings for frank, ofc william was influencing everyone, but the relationship between the first two seemed to got tighter on its own

I mean, they play chess like nothing happened

[bronze prism]

🤨

They play chess like killing each other

Or it was just like "hey dad gimme ur brain bc u lost lol"

[azure bay]

the thing is, William doesn't have to influence everyone in order to get his sacrifices

[bronze prism]

No, he does

It may seem the timeline is solid, but it's actually not

It can be changed

[azure bay]

what are you talking about?

[bronze prism]

If someone come back in past they can open another timeline or just wipe out Laura from existence

William and Aldous knew there was some dangers around their plans

If it were simple like that Aldous wouldn't be visiting the family all those times

Or William wouldn't be doing all that stuff we do in Roots

[azure bay]

actually, not exactly

[ebon aspen]

William surely impacted the events, but its not like everyone was his puppets and didnt had free will

I mean, veeeery few ppl (actually only rose, correct me if im wrong) could see williams soul at some level

[azure bay]

William had all the time in the world & in order to make his plan work he needed to do just 2 things:

1. Make sure James arrives
2. Make sure his grandchildren stay alive & find timepieces.
   That's it. For everything else he could just wait until everyone dies so he could harvest their bodyparts.

[azure bay]

it's funny

because Rose did not see William but communicated with him via ouija

but Ida did see him

[late canyon]

Samuel Winks at the soul in Child's Play

[azure bay]

rather at the audience

[late canyon]

Hmm

[azure bay]

she has spoiled him the rest of the game

[bronze prism]

Hehe

[azure bay]

Emma & Leo have also seen William when they were close to death

Emma has drawn him

[late canyon]

True

[azure bay]

another thing is...
let's suppose William indeed possessed & manipulated all the family.
Why did he change his ways with Rose then?

[bronze prism]

Nope

Never said he possessed

He was just taking "care" of his work

Alongside with Aldous

They are making sure nothing bad happens to their work

Not like puppet

[azure bay]

ok, give me please more examples

Leonard was clearly the one

what are the others?

and, most importantly, how would it break the plan otherwise?

[floral mauve]

I doubt William do any interference except collecting all of the sacrifice pieces in flasks

[bronze prism]

Yes

[azure bay]

he clearly did that with Leonard

[bronze prism]

Nope, he didn't

[floral mauve]

and making Leonard alive

[bronze prism]

He wanted to comeback by himself

He only helped him with his leg

[floral mauve]

thats still help

[bronze prism]

But I don't think it was any time travel

I think it's just a premonition

[floral mauve]

no one mentioned time travel

[azure bay]

"Hello, brother. Save Leonard. We'll need him to find the treasure."

[bronze prism]

Save, not make him come back

[floral mauve]

?

[bronze prism]

I just wanted to be sure I'm right in this

[floral mauve]

I am confused of what you are saying

[bronze prism]

I'm lost in this conversation

[floral mauve]

what do u mean by coming back

[bronze prism]

Me too, I don't speak English very well lmao

[floral mauve]

no one here is a native speaker

[azure bay]

You were talking about William interfering. Saving Leonard in one way or another is interference. What don't you like here?

[bronze prism]

I don't know anymore Jesus Christ

[bronze prism]

Yes

This

I'm agree

[azure bay]

anything else of this kind?

[bronze prism]

Not disagree

I don't know what I meant in this anymore

[floral mauve]

I guess CS can access memories easier than humans

[bronze prism]

Hey let me ask something

[floral mauve]

apparently Aldous left a message in the battlefield

[floral mauve]

what

[bronze prism]

When Leonard got his leg blow he couldn't see those people in the shadows right? Only William

[floral mauve]

sub conscious memory

[bronze prism]

In the fog idk

[bronze prism]

Oh

[floral mauve]

he may not realise what he saw

but William CS might do

[azure bay]

these were more like visions

[azure bay]

but, as you started talking about William making Leo return, here's some evidence:

[floral mauve]

tbh, I doubt William saved Leo in the battlefield

I see it in a rather clearing his memory from PTSD

[azure bay]

do you guys find this familiar?

[floral mauve]

bruh

[covert wyvern]

mans just has a frag grenade ready to go.

[floral mauve]

I guess that I am glad I dont see this familiar (in real life obviously)

[covert wyvern]

or is it gas?

[azure bay]

if it were frag, Leo would get home in way more pieces

[covert wyvern]

very fair.

[floral mauve]

lol

[azure bay]

this is KJ MKII gas grenade

[floral mauve]

MKII is very old

[covert wyvern]

makes more sense, I believe the rags around the ww1 era had a little stick poking out

frags**

[azure bay]

ofc. it's WWI after all

without William bringing him a gasmask (which happens only during the final flashback) Leo would suffocate

[floral mauve]

then how the hell he lost his leg if its not frag

[covert wyvern]

Ye no

don't go there.

[floral mauve]

I know

I wont

[covert wyvern]

Good! 😄

[azure bay]

I'll go to DM then

[floral mauve]

?

[floral mauve]

this

tell me

[covert wyvern]

Its fine to discuss the war within Rls context

its just not fine to discuss a certain prominent german leader who also happened to participate in said war.

[azure bay]

erm... I can't imaging us going there

[covert wyvern]

cool!

[azure bay]

so
every grenade that explodes leaves shards
the frag one is just designed to leave more of them

[floral mauve]

I thought it was the Chlorine gas weapon used in WWI that made Leonard suffer

designed by Haber

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe the leg was amputated afte explosion and the scene of ripping off the leg is just the symbol of sort

[floral mauve]

grenade is just the one made him lose leg

you are now telling me those two goes together

[azure bay]

well, I assume so

[floral mauve]

new knowledge unlocked

[azure bay]

the problem is, it's an american grenade

and the gasmask looks a lot german

[floral mauve]

this guy gives the formula to everyone

its not even a secret

WWI was chaotic

no war rules

just kill ppl in a numb way

[azure bay]

this could mean that the devs didn't do a deep research

[floral mauve]

true

maybe they have global weaponery trade?

that sounds too funny

[floral mauve]

a souvenir from Germany

[azure bay]

and also friendly fire)))

[floral mauve]

Oop

[slow ridge]

Talking about wars, in which side did Leonard fought? It would be absolutely useful to get the exact location of the Lake, right? I'm sorry if you already discussed it, I overlooked the conversation

[bronze prism]

Yooooo you gave a REALLY good idea bro!

But I think there's no clue about that

[ebon aspen]

someone sent a while ago some army uniforms from ww1 and compared to leo's, wont remember much about it

[azure bay]

that type of brodie helmet could be either US, UK or Canada

[azure bay]

btw, a ton of things concerning the lake location has been already said

I've gathered almost all of them here
https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/comments/qkyfzc/nwh_theory_review_the_lakes_location/

[floral mauve]

A while ago

I don’t know have you guys listened my proposal

The location of the lake can be seen in the puzzle of Case 23

Lacus Fleo

However, that’s the real world reference

The lake can be in anywhere since it’s fictional

[azure bay]

How so?

[floral mauve]

In case 23

This name appeared as the author of lady of the lake

But it’s the name of an actual lake

[covert wyvern]

Ye lake Flevo in the Netherlands

The one country without mountains

[high talon]

Really?Cool

[azure bay]

Why?

[high talon]

i was referring to Damy's message

[azure bay]

I know

I don't understand your reaction

[high talon]

oh lmao apologies

i was referring to the name being cool..XD s all

[azure bay]

Thx for explanation

[high talon]

np lmao

[bronze prism]

Hey, are the mountains in Rusty Lake "real mountains"?

There is a certain height to be a mountain so

I mean, there are no mountains in Netherlands

Brazil neither

But there are a lot of hills and high points in the terrain

Aren't rusty lake "mountains" just hills?

My house is sorrounded by hills, like all around

So... Maybe?

[high talon]

maybe

[floral mauve]

what do u mean by real

real in physical way in RL universe

or geographical way in real life

[bronze prism]

Like

Uhhhh

Why I can't explain this--

Its like if the mountains

Have enough height to be called mountains

Because if they don't

There is still a possibility of it being in Netherlands

We need to measure those things u know

So?

[floral mauve]

pls look at the google map

the terrain

of netherland

[bronze prism]

Oooke

[floral mauve]

you can see that netherlands is way flatter than Germany and Belgium

[bronze prism]

Yea I checked it

And I also saw some pictures and

There are DEFINITELY hills in Netherlands

Just like in Brazil

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgeographyandpeople.weebly.com%2Fuploads%2F4%2F7%2F5%2F3%2F47535803%2F5897146.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fgeographyandpeople.weebly.com%2Fthe-netherlands.html&tbnid=UE9XSww9n-WV3M&vet=1&docid=4-7ULsm2l7NoxM&w=350&h=195&hl=pt-BR&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim

[floral mauve]

should I even try to tell you that dont get too into this

[bronze prism]

Look at this

Okeh

But, the mountains in rusty lake don't have enough height to be designated mountains

[floral mauve]

according to the shape

they are

[bronze prism]

Mountains are like, twice as big so

[high talon]

apparently it has mountains? unless these aren't mountains we only have hills here sorry lmao

[bronze prism]

Rusty lake have some mountains just like this

[high talon]

plus maybe its like..uhh

manmade?

[floral mauve]

also, it not only one, but surrounded

that requires some tectonic stuff

[bronze prism]

Yes, just like in Brazil, the place where there is no mountains too

[high talon]

well yeah true hmm

[bronze prism]

And we still have hills

[high talon]

well then again Mr.Owl is magic n RL in general who knows

[bronze prism]

They like sorround my house

[floral mauve]

exactly

[floral mauve]

thats why I said this

the topic we talk about essentially dont matter

[high talon]

ah fair point, lmao

[floral mauve]

in terms of efficiency

[high talon]

i mean those sure are mountains some funky mountains over there

[floral mauve]

of developing theories

[bronze prism]

Yes yes got it then...

[high talon]

altho i am curious (it isn't much of a theory) who built the church?

chapel whatever..XD

[bronze prism]

Rusty lake natives maybe?

Another thing we won't have an answer...

[floral mauve]

locals probably

[high talon]

no im not asking this only because i have a RL OC blog with church clergy

[bronze prism]

Ok, I quit theories

[high talon]

((i am asking for that reason))

[floral mauve]

what is it about?

[high talon]

wellll fdnbjkfd i mean hmm its complex to tell n idk which room it fits in so mods uh..XD

pointers?

[covert wyvern]

Uh

Good question!

Oc talk is probably #🛖｜the-cabin

Even if it's rl related

[high talon]

fair!

[covert wyvern]

Slippery slope I guess?

[high talon]

XD Simon sure is

[sick gust]

whats the evidence supporting that dale is albert?

i forgot

[royal notch]

Better there weren't.

But there's the simple fact that Albert died before Dale's birth, and their similarity with deer simbolism.

I don't know other things.

[hoary lichen]

Huh

So is there a theory also connecting them with Nicholas?

[royal notch]

No, actually Nicholas is raging under the Lake.

[ebon aspen]

the only thing connecting them 3 is the deer motif, ofc one can be the reincarnation of the other, but tbh i dont see how it would affect the lore (and unless we are yet to see it in upcoming games, dale seems to have no reminiscence of albert or nick)

[royal notch]

I neither think that this would affect the juice of the story. But i would really get severelly depressed if i discover that my favourite character Is the reincarnation of a crazy psichopath.

It's a personal delusion, mine and of many other, i bet.

[floral mauve]

how do you guys define reincarnation though

in my opinion its next life rather than reincarnation

if Albert goes through samsara

after he die

[ebon aspen]

in rl context, i consider both terms the same stuff

[floral mauve]

respawn ramdomly

then thats simply next life

nothing is same anymore

except the...essence of the soul?

reincarnation is rather, in my opinion

same mind which is basically same memory

[ebon aspen]

as i said, ik reincarnation may not be the best term, but i use it bc its understandable

[floral mauve]

I have a better way

next life is a natural process for a soul to proceed

after birth and death

whereas reincarnation isnt natural

it revives

reincarnation of the Eilanders for example

they used cult ceremony

not following the normal samsara cycle

[royal notch]

William didn't follow Samsara neither, and i don't think Albert will do that.

[ebon aspen]

but they reached one of the samsara states after all, just like aldous that didnt die for it

actually i think none of the misters and misses died before becoming the hybrids, correct me if im wrong

i use reincarnation for william's process bc well, its what happened when his soul reincarnated as laura

[royal notch]

Some people think that, some not.

[floral mauve]

they did, I didnt deny that

just not in a next life random distribution way

[floral mauve]

arguable

I proposed an idea of the Eilanders's enlightenment before

[ebon aspen]

oof sorry if i seemed to mean this, sometimes i express myself wrong

but i dont think the hybrids died neither that they are in another body

[floral mauve]

lake killed all of them after the ceremony but reincarnated them at different time in a fixed samsara form, which is Asura

[floral mauve]

since the guests have different ages in Hotel compare to Eilanders

so, in order to create such age gap, the lake has to revive them separately in time

sometimes my thoughts are crazy

[ebon aspen]

maybe i should replay paradise, but for me it seemed they just got enlightened after the fire ceremony and became who they were in hotel

[floral mauve]

not immediately for sure

ages dont match

[ebon aspen]

maybe due to not being the sacrifices they didnt recognize mr owl and stuff, yk how the lake is

[floral mauve]

not even remained memories of each other

I tend to think that the guests have their memories as Eilanders hidden in their brain

need something to trigger it

like Mr Rabbit

[ebon aspen]

but i always took the human -> asura transformation as a body and soul type

[floral mauve]

they are

wait

no

not soul type

[ebon aspen]

so, whats the deal with the reincarnation stuff XD

[floral mauve]

soul remians same

physical form changes

such as animal to human

human to Asura

that will be the same

[ebon aspen]

i mean, it gets more enlightened, its the same soul and the same body, just different forms

[floral mauve]

exactly

I dont see a problem here

[ebon aspen]

well, im still confused now XD

maybe i lost smth

[floral mauve]

bruh

[hoary lichen]

Question

If in Arles Van Gogh shoots his CS

Why does he stop appearing on the mirror on the left?

Because like if he died completely who opened the door

Was it Paul?

[bronze prism]

Wha--

This is interesting

Lemme see in arles wait a sec here

Omg your right

If the CS died

That mean someone else opened the door

But who?

We can say it's Paul because when he left the door behind us wasn't locked

He is the best bet for now :I

This give additional credit to Paul right?

Paul had contact with the cubes

Ok, end of theory.

[hoary lichen]

This proves my joke theory that paul is a time traveller no way

Nah but in all seriousness that’s weird

I always thought van gogh was still alive at the end of Arles until recently

Which kinda ruins my non joke theory that van gogh is a time traveller

Sadly

It was my best one imo ):

[floral mauve]

if he shoots the CS

tecnically he shot himself

[hoary lichen]

True

I thought it was more of a “killing inside demons” type thing

[floral mauve]

they arent demons though

[hoary lichen]

Or how in Seasons Laura turns the cs into non corrupted her

[floral mauve]

and they cannot be separated

its just different state

[hoary lichen]

Weird

[floral mauve]

Van Gogh was going through the conversion from human to CS

[hoary lichen]

Because in Arles they show them separated

With the two doors

[floral mauve]

how

[hoary lichen]

The two doors

[floral mauve]

we are in the first person

[floral mauve]

that proves my point isnt it

two forms

human form and CS form switching

Van Gogh was partially corrupted

like Bob

[hoary lichen]

Ahh

I’m bad with partial corruption lol

[floral mauve]

nah its fine

we shouldnt see it as something can be eliminated

[hoary lichen]

Idk the doors confused me they kinda looked like it was two separated different forms at the same time

[floral mauve]

its a part of the samsara of each individual

[hoary lichen]

Because they were two separated different doors

[floral mauve]

in Arles, we never see human form and CS form appear in the same time right?

its one or another

[hoary lichen]

True

[floral mauve]

one door or another door

Van Gogh is dead

most likely

[hoary lichen]

The question still remains who opened the final door

[floral mauve]

there is another possibility

the bullet is like the one in theatre

illusional

probably

[hoary lichen]

Bullet of invisibility

[floral mauve]

not really, but if the wound is not even real

Van Gogh may open the door himself

in human form

after oppressing the CS form back inside him

[hoary lichen]

Why does he not appear in the mirror after he shoots himself if he didn’t die then

[floral mauve]

thats the part I cant explain

[hoary lichen]

And idk the Arles room seems real to me I don’t think it’s a Theater type thing

[floral mauve]

the mirror probably representing that the CS form can be eliminated

[floral mauve]

are u sure

[hoary lichen]

Yeah

[floral mauve]

the paintings can move

all three paintings

[hoary lichen]

True but that can always just be

Abstract world is abstract

[floral mauve]

bruh

I think nowhere had a theory

about Arles is the seasons of Van Gogh

[hoary lichen]

Lmao my theory was similar

But yeah idk I think it’s a real world

Especially because it starts with the name and date of the place

But obviously there’s an aura of weird abstract logic

So uhh ig Paul is still our best guess for who opened the door

Also in Case 24 a painting moves in the church place thingy

[royal notch]

I personally think that The Bedroom is the Paradox room for Van Gogh.

[hoary lichen]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Who knows really

[covert wyvern]

you could argue its some sort of personal hell, I suppose.

but if it's also a memory the lake holding all memory cubes would be hell.

funny conceptl.

[floral mauve]

He starts with what do I remember in Arles

thats like what Dale said in his elevator Journey

[hoary lichen]

Tru

[floral mauve]

so

it is possible that its not real

[hoary lichen]

Idk

It could

Not be

[azure bay]

Guys please don't compare anything to Paradox.

Seasons & Arles are memories. Paradox is a recursive fever dream featuring an unreal location. And their purposes are also different.

[royal notch]

Do you know the purpose of Arles?

[azure bay]

I can theorize but it looks nothing like Paradox at all

it's not about entering the same cube over & over

it's not about speaking to elder bird creatures

it's not about reflecting on the past, present & future

it's not about who dies & who gets enlightenment

it's not about paradox of meeting a corrupted-self

[royal notch]

1. In the game we could be seeing only one of Vincent attempts.
2. In the first chapter Dale didn't talk to anyone either.
3. Dale met himself at the really end of an attempt, which, again, we couldn't have seen.

[azure bay]

what

are

your

evidence?

[royal notch]

I haven't, but you neither. And if i had, this wouldn't be a theory, but a FACT!

[azure bay]

there's such thing as a burden of proof

it's up to you to convince me

[royal notch]

I tried earlier. I wrote a long message with my opinions (not evidences). I'll try to find it.

[late canyon]

What about Arles being the Case 23 of Vincent since He has to find 2 cubes to get out ...?

[azure bay]

the difference is that Arles is a memory

and Case 23 is believed to be the reality

[royal notch]

So, It could be the same for Van Gogh. Mr Owl could have seen in him the characteristic to be the new Governant of the Lake. But Vincent failed, probably because he didn't get to open his mind like Dale did. And this fail could have driven him to his suicide the year after (just to compare story and history).I absolutely agree in the fact that what i'm saying is such a thought in my mind without the smallest evidence to prove it. My theory is just to give a role of middle importance to the artist, only because i don't like thinking about that game like "Cube Escape: Van Gogh edition". I have to say, though, that there are some references of this game in many others, and i've seen them in ways to sustain my story. But i advise, it's not a evident way but my personal opinion, so i'm not wanting to say what's true or false.Until we arrive at Paradox. In the Paradox room is present again the Bedroom in Arles. Since it's most probably a rapresentation of Dale's mind, it seems strange that he focuses on a painting seen only one time.

So, here's my thought: the Bedroom in Arles where we play in the third game could be a rapresentation of Vincent's mind (the maximum rapresentation of a room and of the artist's mind at the same time, i believe). That means that The Bedroom in Arles has been the Paradox room for Van Gogh in the past, where he had then to prove his capacity to exit from his mind. Just like Dale had to do a century after.But instead of our detective, he must have failed, since he died the year after and Mr Owl is still the boss.Another "evidence" could be the fact that, as we see in Paradox, phisically exiting from the room is the wrong way, and you have to repeat all again. This eternal and never-ending cycle could be the reason, in this universe, of Vincent's later madness that lead him to his suicide. Also, both the rooms take place near Rusty Lake: Vincent's one directly, Dale's one in the pine forest before the coast.

There.

Oh, God, i forgot the one with all the paintings' spot in Dale's Life! 😫

This.

[azure bay]

1. Considering the soft worldbuilding of RL the ruler of the lake may not even be a thing during Arles, not talking about Mr. Owl himself.

2. They do references for all previous games. That doesn't make Arles important. Sometimes they even hardly bare any message.

3. Paradox room wasn't literal representation of some real location. Arles is. That's the main difference.

4. What's more, Paradox is not a construct of Dale's mind only. I bet Owl's influence isn't lesser. There's also influence of the lake itself.

5. Van Gogh actually exits the room. In a very different way. And the outside is also different.

6. A never-ending cycle being a reason for madness doesn't work. Here's why. During Paradox Dale was chained to a chair for all time. Van Gogh would likely be the same. And how, excuse me, did he get a chance to experience his madness & kill himself if the cycle didn't end & he couldn't even move?

[royal notch]

3. Some theorize that the Paradox room is a psicanalists' office where Dale went once to tell about his psicological problems (and especially of that bloody night).
4. I said the same thing.
5. And what if Dale wouldn't have been able to end that cycle too? Would they keep him down there forever? That's nonsense, they would had to free him sooner or later, and in some way they could just make him forgetting everything before releasing him to keep their security.

Vincent could have been gone back to his normal life and got suicided for his madness from something else. Maybe for the same reasons history books know nowadays.

[floral mauve]

It is also notable that Arles isnt a loop

but paradox is

[floral mauve]

even though u can go through the ear to switch forms

but that doesnt have any significant impact

in my opinion, its more like last couple of days in TWD rather than paradox

[azure bay]

3. There is no evidence yet. Assuming this in order to make Paradox look like Arles is far-fetching.
4. You don't get my point. The outside doesn't look like the forest at all
5. Now I understand that discussing the aftermath makes no sense. It also could be anything.

Now I want to say the next thing.

Arles is simple.

Its ending corresponds the title: van Gogh escapes the cube.

This is meant to be a good thing unless proven otherwise.

Like in Dale's case

During paradox

He escapes the cube but doesn't escape the bigger one

And the true endins are about it

Paradox is complicated

It's much vaster

[royal notch]

That's for sure. In there we have reasons to think more about it. But Arles, exactly for this reason, seemed to me... too simple. Too random. I would like to see more lore involving the artist, and i'm trying to be prepared for it.

If there will be, obviously.

[floral mauve]

its one of the early games, its super hard to link those together

[azure bay]

And it was a simpler time with simpler goal & simpler games.

The Lake is simple, Harvey's Box is simple, Arles is simple.

There's an idiom in my language. To stretch an owl over a globe. You are currently stretchin Arles over Paradox

[floral mauve]

However, it is also possible that the devs refer to seasons for inspiration when creating Arles

[hoary lichen]

Yeah

I think it’s mostly like Seasons but with Van Gogh

And him collecting the cubes is like how Laura did in Seasons

Although because the game has almost no more info it’s hard to make any definite conclusion

The only thing that would really imply something more happening with Van Gogh is the fact that it starts with “what do I remember?” Implying that something happens to him after it and this is a past memory or something

[floral mauve]

or is it a biased illusional memory

since most of the memories we saw are biased to some extent

[hoary lichen]

Yeah ig

And we still don’t know who opened the door at the end dang

[floral mauve]

bruh

if its the first person

Van Gogh did

[hoary lichen]

Woa

Bullet of invisibility real

[floral mauve]

we just dont know which form, might be human, or CS

[hoary lichen]

Jk jk

Or maybe it WAS time travelling paul

[floral mauve]

god dammit

it might be himself

He drunk too much

so he had some illusions after painting

[hoary lichen]

Wait a minute

Hold on let me check something

Wait when he gets the sunflower from the second painting it makes a drinking sound

Plot twist he really just got drunk and we’ve been overthinking the game

[floral mauve]

bruh

[hoary lichen]

Eh but in all seriousness I think it’s some Seasons thing and that yeah the reason he became invisible is because he turned into another form or something like you said

Maybe just a regular ghost

[floral mauve]

normal soul

[hoary lichen]

Yeah

[floral mauve]

before entering samsara's room

[hoary lichen]

In Roots in the ouija game you’re supposedly invisible

Or else Rose would’ve seen you

[floral mauve]

thats still CS

William was in CS form

[hoary lichen]

Yeah ik I’m just saying that yeah invisibility might just be a regular thing

Not for alive people but ya know

Souls

[floral mauve]

then are u assuming by the end of Arles, Van Gogn was taken over by the CS?

the bullet killed the human form

[hoary lichen]

Idk I think he killed the cs too

[floral mauve]

not the CS form

then I dont see a problem in my description

[hoary lichen]

Yeah

[floral mauve]

but you shouldnt use William's case

since normally

All of the CS are invisible

for humans

[floral mauve]

only if its your own CS

[hoary lichen]

Yeah

[floral mauve]

be careful of Damy

[hoary lichen]

So scary

[grizzled bluff]

Why would Damy be mad at that?

[hoary lichen]

I did a joke

[grizzled bluff]

Yeah?

[hoary lichen]

Yeah

[floral mauve]

Yeah

[grizzled bluff]

We don't exist to ban for joking XD Not even Damy. If anything, I'm way more ban happy
So just try to keep the channel on topic and you're good!

[floral mauve]

u never know when Damy is on u or not👀

[grizzled bluff]

I do!

Anyway, I think your points were interesting, so feel free to continue while I fade back into the background

[covert wyvern]

I dunno I don't really hide my online status

[floral mauve]

run

[covert wyvern]

and I aspire to read all the messages on the server

just right now im also thinking with portals.

[covert wyvern]

but pretty much this.

[real lantern]

Are you sure? Damy gets pretty aggressive while geoguessing... /j

[covert wyvern]

so true bestie.

[bronze prism]

This is over 2 GB

[covert wyvern]

@bronze prism it's also in the wrong channel!

[bronze prism]

What

Oh Jesus I didn't sae

Saw***

[patent portal]

Hi

It's

See

[misty pond]

Here is my theory. The eilander family is associated with paradox and rusty lake hotel and birthday. First in birthday the rabbit is a eilander. How? Well on paradox when you call eilander A. A rabbit comes that shoots out the family members. Also at the end of paradise there is family members with masked dedicated to their animal. In hotel it has been showed that the family members with the same masks are there.

[ebon aspen]

Well, the eilanders being the hotel guests is 99% a consensus, and the connections with paradox and bday are just bc mr rabbit/david is a trauma im dale's life

Ig the only missing info is the nature of the multiple rabbits and how the gun mr rabbit was looking for was with the vandermeers

[azure bay]

And I've already proposed a theory to fill this hole up

[ebon aspen]

Welp, looks like i missed some convos then XD

But yeah, the whole eilander-everything else connection is pretty clear nowadays

[azure bay]

long story short, I see Mr. Rabbit implied to be a CS long back in Bday. His goal in 1939 was a pistol that disappears after assault. In his letter he calls it a substance of his past life (he used to work with Pheasant who possessed the same pistol) which he needs to escape his state (which is usual exclusively to CS).
I think he's a traveler just like Dale who visits some important points in time & evolves spiritually as well as visually.
His earliest known appearance predates his past form's death (window in Hotel) and even there he has a subtle visual difference to the one seen in the ending - whiskers.

So I assume, along his journey he was getting more & more living look: 1st he got whiskers & then gradually a whole body of flesh & blood.

[vague imp]

the ending on paradise got me

[azure bay]

how do you interpret it?

[floral mauve]

The only problem is that Dale is not actually a time traveler, he didn’t change the present reality

Plus, I believe Mr Rabbit didn’t get shot in real life

So, the flesh and blood thing might be made up by Mr Owl to convince Dale that the murderer is no longer harmful

He overcomes the childhood trauma

[azure bay]

We. Don't. Know

I don't see much difference between Seasons & Bday

And "the past is never dead", "all that you touch you change", "change the past"

Reality bending with memories seems fresh & unique concept that would make RL stand out

[floral mauve]

I think the reality should be objective

if memories can bend reality

it is subjective

those two will be the same thing

[azure bay]

subjective idealism exists in philosophy

but yeah, I'd like to see something more objective as well

and tend to perceive memories more reliable than they are in reality

so they are doors to another time

at least as long as the lake is involved

and they may or may not branch timelines when a certain memory stops corresponding memories of others

the last parts are my headcanon

but the foundation starts with Seasons & its messages

and continues with a tendency to unify all cases by certain rules

[floral mauve]

how so, memories are the most unreliable stuff in the real world, in RL universe, Owl can twist the memories as well

I dont get the last part of your argument

[floral mauve]

?

[azure bay]

I'm not buying Laura not changing her past

because

1. the past isn't a past

2. all that she touches in memories changes

3. machine + fuel = change the past

[floral mauve]

I believe that depends on Dale

[azure bay]

4. at recent Q&A devs stated that Laura has created a form of elixir in Seasons

[floral mauve]

yo wtf

I thought devs dont answer lores

[azure bay]

https://mrkanman.tumblr.com/post/660802627379068928/the-rl-q-and-a-panel-with-the-devs-finished-a

[floral mauve]

interesting

even though that guy has no idea of samsara

[azure bay]

Explain me please how Dale's journey would stop Seasons from happening?

[floral mauve]

If he didnt choose green viel

he will be promoted to Deva

If he chose green viel, I believe the past will change

[azure bay]

that still doesn't answer my question. How would Dale not choosing green vial & ascending stop Seasons from happening? Because with info given I see no direct links between these 2 possible changes of the past

[floral mauve]

what made u think Winter is going to come true

[azure bay]

all the aforementioned stuff

the past isn't a past, touch & change, machine+fuel

the thing is

winter 1981 is also a memory

therefore, it already happened

unless we get another rare case of future memories

but to assume that I'd first see someone getting those without being all-knowing Owl

and even in this case it's also likely to happen

as these future memories are effectively prophecies

so

there is no evidence yet of Seasons timelines deriving from the green vial one

Dale may die or ascend but Laura, if stays corrupted, can start creating her machine either way

[royal notch]

It can be quite the opposite. If Laura changes the past, Dale is prevented from ascension.

[azure bay]

There are some interesting ways to play around it

Don't know if it corresponds visuon of @floral mauve but Laura staying alive may lead to Dale's death

Neither he is a mentally healthy person

He could also get into a deeper depression & kill himself

By the way. @floral mauve I've realised that I'm actually interested in how Dale killing himself would result into living Laura

I mean make Seasons happen

Do you have any idea?

[floral mauve]

I mean paradox happened under the lake

lake must be involved in the plan

perhaps after Dale failed to promote, lake will choose to revive Laura and possibly promote her to deva

[azure bay]

but it's not the lake who moves Seasons

it's Laura herself

[floral mauve]

?

wdym

My thought is that it is possible that the Lake give the ability or ingredient for Laura to revive after Dale's failed decision

then, Mr Owl and Mr Crow possibly can revive her

years later

[floral mauve]

not good with years

dont remember when is the winter and when is the cave

[azure bay]

but we see Laura getting the ingredients on her own with no help from the Lake, Crow or Owl

and making the machine work on her own

[floral mauve]

you know that what we see might be not happening right

listen

for example, William getting through the samsara room, but in reality, it is about time pieces and sacrifice that makes him able to achieve it

[floral mauve]

that may happen in her head only

[azure bay]

timepieces are just opening the altar, they have no powers or other purpose and Samsara Room happens after the sacrifices and may be another test on the rebirth journey.

but Samsara Room is not a memory

and Seasons are

Seasons are meant to represent a real location

& real events

[floral mauve]

we are mainly focusing on the winter in my opinion

after fall gameplay

its no longer memory I believe

[azure bay]

but it is

Winter 1981. What do I remember?

[floral mauve]

fair enough

but still, Laura collecting imaginary ingredients

is a way of reaching the external help

lets say

emmm, a doctor is trying to wake up a person in coma, whereas the patient might try to wake up as well in a dream but in other ways of expressing it. Eventually, doctor cured the patient and woke him up, but in the perspective of the patient, he might think that something he did in the dream worked out well.

(Damy, this is not off topic I believe)

[azure bay]

This would rather work with Paradox

but Seasons are memories

[covert wyvern]

if it helps contextualize your theory you're fine 😉

[azure bay]

and in Dale's memories external help was literal

Owl sending a present

Owl giving a wristwatch

The theatre program changing

[floral mauve]

well, in seasons, Laura got stuff inside the clock

I believe thats not something in real life that you store stuff

[azure bay]

I rather see that clock as normal one & Laura herself keeping stuff there

even outside memories it was used to store stuff

like Caroline's cube

[floral mauve]

she is not living in a prison

use clock as wardrobe is weird

[azure bay]

TWD confirmed Laura to be pretty weird

[floral mauve]

u consider that as normal stuff?

[azure bay]

ok, they were storing a chest there

and chest was much more normal that its content

[floral mauve]

I feel like that clock is like Harvey

its everywhere

[azure bay]

it requires a proper theory :p

[floral mauve]

it has stored William, Rose, Laura

include some weird post office purpose

your personal delivery has arrived*

[azure bay]

and even more weird flesh insides

[floral mauve]

it seems like that clock also works as a fridge?

the flesh doesnt decay

[azure bay]

no, it's organical

Grand Karcist Ion would approve it)))

[royal notch]

I always thought that it was a normal family clock built by the First Vanderbooms, until i played Paradise!

[azure bay]

there may be several clocks

3 at most

[floral mauve]

probably the family clock was sold by Jakob to Aldous

then he fixed it

I guess that how they got to know each other

neighbourhood around the lake

[royal notch]

I don't know... after Samsara Room i'm getting scared of it!

[azure bay]

there's a theory of Vanderboom bros being Jacob's nephews

[floral mauve]

well, they have a very expensive family tradition in terms of costing ppl

[azure bay]

in case they are not, I still tend to think that they got to know each other becaue of alchemy

[floral mauve]

probably

[royal notch]

Probably Mr Owl managed to see the qualities of those brothers and decided to show himself up.

[floral mauve]

I dont think the the brothers moved to the lake only because of vacation

they probably live near somewhere else before that

then they build the mansion, Mr Owl might helped them since he got quite many experience with the hotel

[azure bay]

the house seems to be constructed for alchemy sake

[floral mauve]

exactly

also, the graveyard of the Vanderbooms

[azure bay]

what about it?

[floral mauve]

there wasnt anyone else's corpse (I mean other Vanderbooms, such as the grandparents etc) there

that means its not a family owned land thats like for centuries

the brothers moved there

[azure bay]

I wouldn't trust it that much

it could be just the Vanderboom row

or an approximate representation

Roots isn't really literal game pretty often

the dates on the crosses & tombstones also evoke questions

[floral mauve]

[floral mauve]

I always wonder if the devs left it on purpose for TPW

[floral mauve]

I doubt since they didnt know Albert was that popular among the fans

[azure bay]

Well

They could expect it

He's the most eccentric Roots character

By design

[floral mauve]

yes

they are matched

Deva is god that is possibly with golden cube and full Elixir mode

Asura is probably mortal

as I proposed this idea many times, there are two type of enlightened Asuras

1. Elixir drinkers, such as Jakob and Aldous

2. Sacrifice using lake power, such as Eilanders

?

wdym

He drunk the Elixir in spiritual form

@azure bay he can explain Jakob better than me

omg

[azure bay]

Jacob consumed a conceptual elixir during the Paradise ending and became Owl

[floral mauve]

Caroline's memories I believe

different form

remember, those are just theories

u can have ur own interpretations as well

as long as its logical

[sacred nova]

ok

im gonna use this channel a lot

[royal notch]

Welcome, then!

[floral mauve]

show me what u got

[floral mauve]

we dont know, maybe there was a third brother, and some ppl say James might be the son of Aldous, even though I doubt that strongly

?

how is that Aldous's dog

omg

Cave is way, way after roots

like 100 years

sometimes, it is good to rethink your argument before send it

omg, I am having a heart attack

pls

dont do this to me

the problem is

even though there are many many interpretations going on

there are some certain stuff

such as timelines in Roots and Case 23

and main plot

its would be a good idea for you to go through the entire RL universe

then how the hell you come out the idea that Roots and Dale investigation happened in the same time

its fine

same

I didnt replay Cave or paradox

let me answer your question in a more rational and neutral way as I always did

He still focused on the fate of Vanderboom even after James died. Therefore, he did care about the result. However, you cant say its abandon if there is no gain in the first place.

I perceive Aldous seeing it in an experiment way of reviving his brother

[bronze prism]

Well, we have zero clues about a third brother

His uncle or William passed away

And James was the only heir so that make sense

A genealogical tree would be nice rn 🥲

Wait, we already have one

In this tree we can't see any 3rd brother, and the fact that William was James's uncle we can say Aldous is his father

But hey, what about dale's grandfather?

Do we have something to prove he's not

ONG WAIT A MINUTE

IF THE BARTENDER IN THEATRE IS ALDOYS

AND DALE'S GRANDFATHER HAS THE THEATRE GIN RECIPE

DOESN'T THAT MEANS HE'S THE SAME PERSON???

PLUS THE FACT HE HAVE CONNEXIONS WITH THE HOTEL AND MR OWL

My head is exploding rn let me breathe

But it wouldn't work that easy because dale was born while roots was going on

No, this only give us another clue

Look, dale was a kid in birthday

And his grandfather was of course very old

It was his 8th birthday

And his father looks old

Aldous is 3 generations across stars

[covert wyvern]

I don't actually think mr crow is the grandpa

But who knows

[bronze prism]

We have some facts that appointed him as the grandpa

[jagged nacelle]

remember the human skin mask that mr crow wear in case 23 when he brought us to the cabin? i think it's the grandpa or the bartender

[bronze prism]

Like the generation, which is supported by the date in stars, roots. Or the appearance of him which the dev obviously made intentionally

[bronze prism]

I don't think it's a "skin mask"

I think it's just his transformation

Oh and in cave we see that same thing happen multiple times so

[jagged nacelle]

sorry i just can't find the word xd

[bronze prism]

Plus mr. Owl is also able to change those

From human to animal

And it's also supported by mr. Owl appearance in the white door

We don't have any fact appointing he is NOT the grandpa, but we DO have facts that appointed he IS the grandpa

It's now a probability problem, and it's pointing to the second option

What your opinions guys?

[hexed bough]

when aldous had the thing on the stage, i'm pretty sure the bartender disappeared from the bar, so.

[bronze prism]

Ohh

[bronze prism]

Ooo right

Let me see I think he's sleep

[bronze prism]

Confirmed, it's true

Well, looks like dale's grandfather is mr. Crow

An intermezzo by mr. Crow

[covert wyvern]

ye mr crows the bartender, very fair.

or well, at least someone dressed up as mr crow

[bronze prism]

Mr. Crow = Bartender, the gin tonic recipe is with dale's grandfather, then dale's grandfather = bartender, dale's grandfather = mr. Crow/Aldous Vanderboom, just older

[bronze prism]

Is mr. Owl in the theatre?

[covert wyvern]

yes, at the end.

I think?

or at the beginning

[bronze prism]

Then it make sense mr. Crow in theatre

[covert wyvern]

or both!

lmao.

[bronze prism]

Both beginning and end

[covert wyvern]

ye.

[bronze prism]

So we can add dale in the vanderboom family

[covert wyvern]

also mr crow has a cube shaped scar on his forehead whjich could be wound he got in birthday

[bronze prism]

The best bet we have is that Aldous changed his surname to Vandermeer to oversee Dale

[covert wyvern]

uh maybe, I simply dont believe he's the grandfather

but I have no evidence to refute it.

[bronze prism]

Omg my class

I'm back

I almost lost my geography class

online stuff

So, back to theory

The probability of Dale Vandermeer being directly related to the vanderbooms is extremely high, based on the clues we have I will make an extreme assumption

Aldous had a son/daughter with the lady in the mill, based on the pictures they have give us the clue they are a couple, the lady in the mill is dale's grandmother, they had a child and this children later became one of dale's parents, so the lady of the mill is a Vanderboom/Vandermeer

It's the ONLY clue we have about dale's grandmother, so it's fair to add her into the vanderboom's Family Tree

I think this has already been discussed in here

It's very a plausible explanation about Dale's origins

The generations give us the fact that dale is much older than Laura, maybe same age as rose or Leonard

[floral mauve]

remember

Birthday and Theatre

in Cube excape

are biased

If Mr Crow is the grandpa

why he got killed

lets say

it is possible that Mr Crow is in Birthday of the elevator journey to observe Dale

but in reality of that day

His entire family got slaughtered

[royal notch]

"Grandpa Vandermeer" could even have not been at the birthday.

[floral mauve]

interesting