🤔｜theories

[covert wyvern]

I think direct murder is unlikely.

[azure bay]

I'm rather sure that her memories were still containing William's elixir formula, as it was shown in The Cave

[floral mauve]

Normally in RL there are three storylines (I believe)

1. Story of Dale and Laura
2. Vanderbooms
3. Eilanders
   3.5 Bob

oh btw

Technically, ppl can see whats going on in the memory cubes right?

in some certain ways which are hard to interpret

therefore, Mr Owl and Mr Crow should have the formula of Elixir already

it might be a flawed one according to The Full Elixir theory

[azure bay]

I guess there are so much memory that finding certain knowledge would be close to impossible

[floral mauve]

emmmmmm

well

Caroline did it

in a precise way

[winter scarab]

Is the golden cube the full elixir?

[floral mauve]

one of our interpretation

let me find it

[azure bay]

Laura's cubes were containing all of her memories

Caroline's - just certain scenes

they were somehow taken out beforehand

[winter scarab]

My interpretation of this is that they need a suitable host or something(dale) and a person who has died from the elixir(laura/william) + her memories(could be the ones you collect in the mill from ther, put in the lake and collect again in the cave submarine part) and also a blue cube to create the golden cube

[azure bay]

On the mural about alchemists we've seen Laura's cube containing elements of William's elixir

That's what elixir insignia likely means on the scheme

[winter scarab]

Yeah i noticed that, but didnt know what it meant

Wierd, wouldnt mr crow know the recipe also? He was williams brother

[azure bay]

We've decided that William's contribution was crutial

[winter scarab]

He was the one who made it right? I dont remember anyone calling aldous the creator of the elixir

So it makes sense

[floral mauve]

well I didnt find it but I can rewrite it more or less. The Full Elixir is likely to be:

1. The golden cube that enlightened the Asura which turns you into Deva(god)
2. A better version of the current Elixir which allows you to have a fixed Asura form and wont decay

Did I miss something

[azure bay]

3. Just ANY elixir that wasn't extracted from dog's shit

[floral mauve]

yes

[winter scarab]

Why did they need the extract anyways?

Enlightened dog shit

[floral mauve]

Well it seems like the prolonged life is not unlimited

[azure bay]

the dog apparently wasn't enlightened

[floral mauve]

Well I think my theory makes sense

[winter scarab]

Didnt he kill that guy i cant remember the name of?

[floral mauve]

the Elixir is not made for animals

only humans

Elixir has those effects:

1. Enlighten human, turns them into Asura
2. Prolonged life for a certain time (like a century I guess)

Its an artificial product

so it is not that permanent

[winter scarab]

Oh that gives the explenation for why they needed the extract then

[floral mauve]

yep

[winter scarab]

But still

[floral mauve]

and it seems that the Elixir is too much for the dog size

[winter scarab]

Enlightened dog shit sounds good

[floral mauve]

it still has a limit

[azure bay]

we see no evidence of Dog being equal to Owl & Crow

[floral mauve]

He lives way longer with that much of Elixir than human

[winter scarab]

This may sound a bit far fetched and raises many questions, but what if Harvey is like the dog? An animal who drank the elixir

[floral mauve]

emmmm well Samsara is samsara

so it might be

But there is one thing I am more or less certain about

Harvey didnt get enlightened by Owl or Crow way

must be other ways

[azure bay]

Harvey used to be asur but he died & Owl personally made him be reborn

[floral mauve]

but as I mentioned, Elixir is made for human

animals get nothing but the second effect

extra life x10000

(metaphor)

Samsara wheel is a good thing to learn first

[winter scarab]

A bit off topic, but is the highlighted part paradox?

[floral mauve]

otherwise its a bit confusing

[winter scarab]

Yeah whats that

Ive seen it, but never fully understood it

[floral mauve]

god dammit

here we go again

its a long story

I would really really like to find my old messages

So there are 6 stages

of a creature

can be in

[azure bay]

maybe give him a link to wikipedia page?

[floral mauve]

Deva(god), Asura(half god like Mr Owl), Human, Animal, Hungry ghost(CS), Hell

btw

I dont really understand the position of hell in RL

what is it in RL universe

[tall gyro]

Can anyone explain the corrupted souls and how they drive the plot in the games?

How are they significant?

[covert wyvern]

I think they're important in a sense that they're either a thing the lake desires, creates, or wants to get rid off? I;m unsure. the plot is driven by the fact that there is a lake who apparently feeds on memories, and owl and crow desires to help it out?

[tall gyro]

I think that's the thing about the series

the plots are often very ambiguous

possibly that was no accident

[covert wyvern]

that's done on purpose, I reckon.

indeeed, I agree.

[tall gyro]

the devs intended their fans to keep wondering

[covert wyvern]

of course! it makes sense right.

I like the mystery

and it keeps the buzz for the games going, so arguably its good marketing too.

[tall gyro]

well the devs need to answer all their questions sooner or later

[covert wyvern]

perhaps. but for now I can only speculate the souls are important in the way that the memory cubes are important, and the souls are the result of the black cubes.

[tall gyro]

I think later someone in the RL team needs to come forth and explain to clear any confusion

[covert wyvern]

that's an opinion you're allowed to have!

[tall gyro]

I'm going to take a wild guess and theorize that the corrupted souls have to do with one's past wrongdoings

[covert wyvern]

a very interesting take!

[tall gyro]

And Rusty Lake's primary mission is to purify their souls by helping them atone for them

As for the cubes holding memories, they likely hold negative ones which Rusty Lake looks into in order to understand why one's soul is corrupted in the first place

In Case 23, Dale first learns about RL from investigating a murder of that woman

The very woman who gets murdered in Seasons and Paradox

[covert wyvern]

ye Ithink we can say, for certain, that black cubes do in fact hold bad memories.

[tall gyro]

Could it be that soul who murdered that woman belongs to Dale, unbeknownst to him?

[tall gyro]

Hence when you dunk it in the water tank in CE Mill, everything outside turns pitch black

(Not to mention granny suddenly kills herself by stabbing her eyes out with her needles)

[covert wyvern]

perhaps the cubes have a degrading effect on their immediate surroundings.

[tall gyro]

All we know about that woman so far is that she's the ex of Robert Hill from the White Door

other than that her background is still unknown to us

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-spongebob-dizzy-stars-gif-8679320

Me trying to figure out Rusty Lake's overall plot

[covert wyvern]

well, that's not entirely true, we know who her mother is, we know she's the reborn soul of william, or, she shares a body with that soul.

[tall gyro]

Oh yeah I forgot about the Vanderboom Family

[astral frost]

I would like to add a little point to Rusty Lake's will

We discovered that it needs sacrifices (in Paradise)

So we could consider it as a natural-primitive being which must be fed

[astral frost]

That's also said in the Mill by Mr Owl itself

[real lantern]

I mean, honestly they dont have too lmao, i hate comparing games but, look at FNAF for example that thing has been going on for soooo long by now and people still dont know whats going on there 😆

[ebon aspen]

sometimes the goal is to keep the theories going on XD

[fading zenith]

is there any significance of "the lady of the lake" besides her brief appearance in cube escape theatre and white door

[covert wyvern]

well it is implied that the lady of the lake is probably ms. pheasant, who also makes an appearance in RL hotel, and the mask of the pheasant is worn by elizabeth in paradise.

so theres ~something there.

[azure bay]

Ms. Pheasant & Lady of The Lake are not the same person. That's indicated by her poster in Hotel.

They are likely to be different incarnations of the same soul, but that's not set in stone yet.

Either way I think The Lady is just her stage name & is not real title.

However, the real Lady of The Lake seems to be Caroline as it was her portrait drawn by Lacus Fleo. In her case the title is more likely to imply some supernatural powers but I rather tend to think that it just indicates her attitude

[covert wyvern]

same soul same person, exactly the same thing /s

I agree with the notion of the the stage name, though.

[azure bay]

What I was trying to say, it seems important to underline whether different characters preserve their personalities or not

[covert wyvern]

you make a good point!

[floral mauve]

The sacrifice is for the enlightenment no?

a family ritual of Eilander

Lake just want some memories

just you need to sacrifice the right person

[azure bay]

offering memories & sacrificing people may not be even correlated

[floral mauve]

thats what I am saying

maybe my way of expression is a bit confusing

what I am trying say is that you need to sacrifice the right person to receive the enlightenment, otherwise you receive 10 plagues

and normally, the lake just want some memories

(we currently dont know the consequnces of not feeding it)

[azure bay]

honestly, I'm not sure about the cause of the plagues

the plot behind Paradise is very confusing

another debatable question is exact Caroline's fate

[winter scarab]

Have we explored the Rusty lake mountains in the series? Theyre always seen in the background and seem like a perfect place for some memory cult shenanigans

[ebon aspen]

The nearest thing to a mountain was the cave, ig they are way too far from the lake to be relevant XD

[fading zenith]

that makes a lot of sense thanks

[floral mauve]

at least we know that she got sacrificed and somehow turned into CS and can extract her own cubes

[nocturne yarrow]

I feel like they could use them as a setting for something, but they've only really appeared as background elements so far.

[azure bay]

Or certain cubes of hers came out while she was burning

[royal notch]

Maybe because of the fire. Even in Seasons we learn about particular interactions between memories and fire.

[floral mauve]

So you are saying all of the Eilanders are blind to see the random black cubes that has appeared

also you cant just take out the cube directly

[azure bay]

I'm saying what I was seeing

black cubes were floating up while Caroline was burning

I don't know what these cubes were exactly

I don't know if Nicolas' goal was to extract them in that way

[floral mauve]

I highly doubt Nicolas know anything about the specific theory inside the enlightenment

He just want to follow the family tradition

sacrifice the right person and get the enlightenment

[azure bay]

He needed Caroline's memories at some point

likely to find her elixir

[floral mauve]

All of the investigation seems to be done by Caroline

so I guess he doesnt do shit

or even knows shit

[azure bay]

No, Caroline's own research doesn't mean he's completely ignorant about the

universe

[floral mauve]

Where did you see this

[azure bay]

he knows how to use cubes

he knows about elixir

[floral mauve]

He called his son back to solve the plague disasters and sacrifice him...again

[floral mauve]

oh he knows?

Then the fuck he needs the cult

[azure bay]

Owl knows about elixir as well

then the fuck he needs Dale?

[floral mauve]

He needs to get the next stage no?

[azure bay]

who?

[floral mauve]

Mr Owl

and thats two different things

Elixir and Dale

but Ritual and Elixir is more or less the same

but ritual is more perfect

for some natural reasons

[azure bay]

Owl is expected to become a fish, the next stage is exclusive for Dale

[floral mauve]

yes

fish god yeyyyyy

deva fish god

Dale deer god

[floral mauve]

what I am trying to say that the comparison you used to compare Nicolas and Mr Owl dont match

[azure bay]

what I am trying to say is that knowing that elixir is possible & knowing how to make it are 2 different things

[floral mauve]

ah

sure

that makes more sense

Then Nicolas just think Elixir is a garbage version of the ritual

[azure bay]

or ritual is the only available way

[floral mauve]

yes

I guess technology innovation such as alchemistry does make a difference

science is powerrrr

[azure bay]

(or pseudoscience)

[floral mauve]

well yeah but no actually

since they already know mercury and things

idk

so its prescience

but the point is The Vanderbooms are educated

than Nicolas

[azure bay]

Does anyone know what this S-like symbol is?

[covert wyvern]

O is this from tpw teasers?

[azure bay]

nope, just another game with alchemy & other sort of occultism

I'm curious why they share this one

[covert wyvern]

Ahhh so you're wondering if the it has more meaning

Fair enough!

Can't help you there!

[real lantern]

I also have no idea about the simbols either lmao, also, the room, great game

[astral frost]

I've always assumed that those games have a sort of proprietary meaningless alphabet

So they can use it in most of the puzzle in every game

[azure bay]

Some symbols ARE real

Like sun

Or alchemical air

[hollow leaf]

I don't know if this is the place for this but at the end of cube escape theater, there were several letters/numbers on the mirror that I didn't get the chance to see before the door shut on me does anyone know what they are?

[ebon aspen]

Its a code for case 23

[hollow leaf]

These games are gonna keep me entertained until the end of time

Does anyone know if the shadow figure(Bob, I think) and the shadow figure with horns are the same person?

[ebon aspen]

Prolly not, there are a lot of corrupted souls/bodies (shadow figures) thru the series

[azure bay]

Have you played Hotel?

[hollow leaf]

@azure bay I haven't

@azure bay I'm poor

[azure bay]

Then I'm sure that a corrupted soul you'll see in The Cave will be the one from Case 23

[broken rune]

I wonder why the corrupted soul tried to attack dale in case 23 chapter 4

[royal notch]

Usually corrupted souls attack just because they're angry, without a real reason.

[broken rune]

So they attacked people for no reason

[azure bay]

Not all of them

At least as time goes on

For example, Laura's CS ceased being hostile some time before winter 1981

& we've never seen Caroline & William being agressive

[floral mauve]

yep

I think CS is not all irrational

William still has a plan of collecting body parts

Afterall, CS is just another form of creature in the Samsara

[azure bay]

well

animals don't seem sapient

at least the majority of them

[floral mauve]

I have heard that its related to the amount of the memories left in CS

the more memories left in a CS

the more rational it can be

[azure bay]

I assume guests had a majority of them while staying in Owl's autoclaves

[floral mauve]

well we actually dont know

since guests only have one black cube

whereas Caroline has loads

and William probably has all of them

and Laura lost two cubes in the Mill

[azure bay]

one black cube may contain all the memories. While the only memory confirmed to be extracted was about Dale in the elevator

[floral mauve]

true.....

god dammit

[bright bridge]

In which country do you think Rusty lake is located?

[abstract marten]

Something tells me Canada but I also think it's in Europe-Asia

[azure bay]

Daily Herald newspaper & Leonard's brody helmet could mean either US, UK or Canada.

Hand grenade that took Leonard's leg was american MkII KJ gas grenade.

According to some rumors, the mill was inspired by one in GB.

British Daily Herald was working from 1912 to 1964 which contradict some papers seen in Roots.

There are at least 7 Rusty Lakes in Canada.

The year on the chapel that's likely to be the year built (1384) corresponds its architecture style & predates america colonization.

[hollow lava]

Hi can someone please explain to me why the shrimps are such a lore thing

[modern thistle]

Hi, I'm new to the rusty lake discord, and I find the games that rusty lake created very interesting and I have played cube escape paradox, cube scape the lake and cube escape collection even though there is something that I do not understand and it is the story Can someone explain to me if the whole saga has a cannon story or is it just an escape game

[real lantern]

Yes, it does have a story that arches over every single game, but to realy be able to start piecing everything together i would realy recomend playing the premium games, especialy roots and hotel

[eternal elk]

Playing every game does help fit the puzzle pieces together (and it’s very fun) but if the story is still confusing to you, i recommend Razz Jazz on youtube! he makes videos on the timeline :D

[modern thistle]

@eternal elk @real lantern well thank you very much, although I don't think I can play the premium games 😦

[azure bay]

I recommend you researching a symbolism of shrimp. I'm delaying that for myself cause I don't find that too important, but you can open a brave new world for all of us

[hollow lava]

Guess it's time for shrimp then

Gdi I was googling and-

If Shrimp could have a motto, it might well be “color my world.” They come in many hues determined by what they eat

And considering that you start noticing the shrimp mostly thanks to the achievements that were added on steam (which happened after the white door came out) I wouldn't be surprised if the two things were connected

[azure bay]

what 2 things exactly?

[hollow lava]

"color my world" (aka the white door) and shrimps

In other words I think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch thinking that you start noticing the shrimps because the creators wanted you to, after the white door came out

In general shrimps have always been around ever since the cube escape series but as a player I never actually noticed them until I started completing all the achievements, and those weren't added until the games were put on steam. The fact that the first website I clicked on showcased that sentence probably isn't just a coincidence

I'm probably reading too much into it but I think the situation was something on the line of "hey check out this cool sentence about shrimps, it would fit the game" which next evolved into "wait we should make shrimps more important because they've always been around"

Anyway more info about shrimp:

And also this cool sentence: Whatever the lack, Shrimp Spirit Animal comes to help you see things differently. Awareness is half the battle when making changes. 

[azure bay]

I think if it was the case, we've seen at least some shrimps in TWD

[hollow lava]

TWD stands for...?

[azure bay]

The White Door

[hollow lava]

I'm pretty sure there are shrimos at some point

Probably in the party dream/memory

I don't have the game tho so don't take my word

[azure bay]

I'm good at remembering minor details & I don't recall any shrimp at all

I could indicate that the color thing is just a coincidence

[hollow lava]

I mostly think that that one sentence in particular is kore of a coincidence than anything, but it's strange that it fits so well in TWD context

[azure bay]

Coincidence is expected to be more mundane than we think

we tend to seek patterns

there's a theory

each cube represents a certain stage of philosopher's stone

black one is nigredo

white is albedo

blue is citrinitas

& golden one is rubedo e.g. the ideal stage

the full elixir

& so on

but

the problem is, the colors of the last 2 don't correspond their counterparts

plus, there is no mention of these stages

some people place this theory in the foundation of the lore alongside samsara

while samsara unlike it has its mentions all around

& "full elixir" could just mean "not shitty extract"

so the theory doesn't stand up

& we can assume that it's built merely on a coincidence

[floral mauve]

me2, I have no memories about shrimp in TWD, did Mr Owl took my memory

I see no link between shrimps and TWD

plus I doubt this is an important detail either

[vague imp]

does rusty lake take place in britain?

or america ?

i lean more to british

[vague imp]

british one btw

[royal notch]

This is a particular discussed many times!

[cerulean crypt]

USA didn't fight in 1914

[royal notch]

Personally, i tend to think about Canada. During the Great War, it was a british colony.

[cerulean crypt]

And they also used brithish uniform

[astral frost]

There's also a real Canadian lake named "Lac Rouille"

Literally Rusty Lake

[azure bay]

There are 7

[vague imp]

and motor bikes

which the french too were known for doing

[vague imp]

The landscape looks like North America more than Europe too

[azure bay]

What about Highland?

[cerulean crypt]

But there is still one problem with North America

Date on Chapel

[azure bay]

(It's so easy do dismiss clues like that)

[violet vessel]

i might be dumb and this was obvious but i also haven’t played the games in a while but is dale the one that killed the girl?

[covert wyvern]

maybe! I think she killed herself.

[azure bay]

When I played Paradox 1st time that was what I thought. Currently I believe that it doesn't really matter. At least for now.
"Every interpretation is true unless told otherwise", like in the writing of David Lynch

[covert wyvern]

an excellent quote.

[violet vessel]

the “doesn’t really matter” so true - ahah,,, i’m just replaying and like there’s that one post in note in the fall of seasons that says “i’m afraid i’m going to do something horrible” and then she was hanging in the one game- case 23 i think— BUT WHAT IF MULTIPLE PEOPLE KILLED HER

[covert wyvern]

I think that's an interesting angle. what if her murder was setup, by multiple people.

[violet vessel]

but what if this whole thing ends with dale killing himself so that she doesn’t die-

[covert wyvern]

I dunno how possible / likely it is.

[azure bay]

well, Dale was foretold to reach the hotel

If the choice in Paradox matters it took place before he entered the elevator

that's the moment the history could go split

[covert wyvern]

Im forever contemplating both Dale and Laura are able to Enlighten the moment theyre both hooked up to the golden cube machine

or not both

one of them.

one has to die, and all that

[azure bay]

that doesn't seem to be the case

none of them got animal head back then

[nocturne yarrow]

My thinking is that she committed suicide, but the scene in Paradox where Dale's soul kills her was something constructed by Mr. Owl to show Dale the evil present in all humans- put simply, showing him that he would have been capable of killing her.

[azure bay]

Paradox wasn't constructed exclusively by Owl

there's a piece of Dale, a piece of the lake's will

talking about metaphors, the final scene could just mean that Laura & Dale cannot coexist for some reason

that reason could be them being the next elixir pair

on the other hand, that final scene could also reflect the reality just like some other parts

[azure bay]

the thing is, the alchemist brothers were both alive to drink the elixir

not Laura tho

doesn't it mean that she was sacrificed by the universe beforehand?

& if Dale can take her place doesn't it mean that they may retroactively switch roles?

Like the reality rebuilds itself in a way that Dale died in the past & his corrupted soul was captured to give fuel for Laura's ascension

However, for now these are just my brave thoughts

[nocturne yarrow]

I think that could happen. It would at least explain the ending of Seasons in a satisfying way.

[winter scarab]

Seasons is very confusing for me

Its Lauras corrupted sould going back in time right? Atleast back in her memories. Does she do this right after being corrupted in the mill?

[azure bay]

I don't think so

it has to happen at least in winter 1981

or even later

unless these are "future memories" like in Hotel

[winter scarab]

Her story seems the most confusing part

Dor me atleast

For*

[azure bay]

it's confusing in general unless we somehow dismiss it

there's a strong opinion in the community of Seasons not happening for real

[winter scarab]

So she is william reborn, she gets killed/commits suicide in the fall memory i think?? Her body is taken to the mill, her memories are extracted for the true elixir and then what. Does she revisit her memories to change them?

[azure bay]

also bare in mind her presence in The Cave

I expect her being required when Dale finally reaches the hotel

then she's expected to spend about a decade on something

probably on gathering info & constructing the machine

[winter scarab]

Her memories are required for the true elixir

I have to go rn sorry

[azure bay]

If only memories were needed, they wouldn't capture the soul

they were used for the golden cube

[winter scarab]

From the cave diagram, both her memories and her soul is required

[azure bay]

when you are back, plz ping me & explain why you think so

[winter scarab]

@azure bay this

[azure bay]

Ah yeah, they are both pointing to the cube

Or vise versa

[winter scarab]

From how i understand this myself. The golden cube requires

1. Memories of a person who has died from the elixir and was reborn
2. A suitable person to be enlightened (Dale) (this is assuming that the golden cube is the true elixir)
3. Blue cube
4. The sould of the reborn person (Laura)
   The point where Dale and Laura meet is paradox

[azure bay]

Dale is not marked as someone important

Therefore, I also think that Laura is valuable because of her past-life memories

That's why William

What's more, all 3 elements (Dale, Laura & gCube) are equally connected

Like it depicts the ritual itself

[azure bay]

@winter scarab & may I ask you not to mention the gCube as "the full elixir"? We don't know yet what this term really means

[winter scarab]

It seemed like a popular theory in the community, and since i havent researched it too deeply its what i assumed. I also said that this is assuming that thats the correct theory, not that it definitelly is

[vague imp]

I love Rusty Lake.

[real lantern]

It do be looking like a scam tho

I cant read it, but i can guess

@covert wyvern

Sorry to bother ya

[covert wyvern]

Same thing I said in general

When you see a scambot

please, please please tag the entire mod team

[floral mauve]

I always have this question, does the elixir influence the soul

if so, she should have some sort of Elixir power deep inside her

I mean technically yes

because it has the ability to enlighten human

therefore it has influenced the state of soul

plus, Laura has been born in a strange natural way

[azure bay]

I've heard that idea buy I don't believe it at least yet. I rather tend to think that her memories are imortant for the elixir just like ones of Caroline's were

Talking about enlightenment, long ago I've got an idea that it has a different definition in RL.

What's more, William was not enlightened in any way since only one person is & that was Aldous that time

[floral mauve]

true

but that the effect

the fact is that they both drunk the same substance

its 50/50

(maybe death for William has offered other effect that Aldous doesnt have?)

(Special reincarnation effect?)

[azure bay]

I don't really know

However, I expect all the elixir's effects for the losing side being negative

[floral mauve]

aw

[azure bay]

This drink doesn't seem to be a big deal. Otherwise I'd expect a stronger effect on the dog

A big deal in changing the laws of universe, I mean

Changing something as eternal as a soul seems op

[floral mauve]

so a man made substance cant do it

its just a mimic of natural enlightenment

(sacrifice)

[azure bay]

What's natural enlightenment?

[floral mauve]

sacrifice?

the lake does it for others

natural....I guess

[azure bay]

I don't think it's natural either

[floral mauve]

well its a lake

[azure bay]

It's not that accessible

There's probably a whole society of asurs

[floral mauve]

wdym

Eilanders?

[azure bay]

No

[floral mauve]

or ancient ppl?

[azure bay]

We have Rabbit & Pheasant who have to somehow stay in showbis under their asur names

We have ambassador Boar

I think there are lots of other asurs that have their societies, leisure, politics

Everyday lives

There's likely no way they all used to be human cultists

At least the ones worshipping Rusty Lake

But the thing is, we don't know what else people like Eilanders could worship

Perhaps there's actually natural way to be born as an asur

[floral mauve]

ah you mean that society

I get it

but what if they can transform back in human form when they are outside the lake

[azure bay]

What exactly do u mean?

[floral mauve]

like others are normal outside RL

[azure bay]

So you think Mr. Rabbit that looks like anthro rabbit on a poster is a human when he's not Owl's guest?

[floral mauve]

yeah

Perhaps those Eilanders know their home land is somewhere that no need disguise

[azure bay]

Well, I guess asurs could hide among humans just like wizards in HP.

However, that doesn't make them not asurs.

What's more, both Rabbit & Pheasant are clearly branded as asurs so their audience is expected to be asurs as well & my claim about their expected quantity is still not debunked.

Talking about Eilanders, the guests seem not to remember their past lives & have mostly different personalities

So no home lake home for them

[floral mauve]

well, it is still possible that they consider its a safe place since they saw Mr crow

The show of Ms Pheasant for example, is not being shown in Asura form at theatre isnt it

[azure bay]

Ms. Pheasant is dead. In my book the songstress is more likely to be either just an actress or Phrasant's next incarnation

& even if it IS Pheasant's human form, the concept of a safe place seems to be overthinking.

Any place should be safe as long as there is no humans

Like the very same theater during Pheasant's or Rabbit's performance announced on their respective posters

[floral mauve]

fair enough

My interpretation is always overthinking

[glacial totem]

this is super duper random, but... could Dale be Harvey?

[ebon aspen]

Veeeery unlikely

[glacial totem]

Yeah, it was a dumb idea.

[ebon aspen]

After playing those games for almost 5 years, i learnt that no idea is a dumb idea XD

[glacial totem]

It was because we know nothing of harvey, and that we see harvey and mr. owl, and how hotel ends

with dale an mr. owl

we see harvey got stuck as a bird, as did the hotel guests

we see harvey in paradox, and laura says harveys egg connects it.

and dale was assigned to lauras case, and getting involved in the rusty lake storys like a virus.

touch anybody or anything related? you're now apart of it, and gonna die

likely die. If not die, then recieve major trauma.

we see harvey when dale changes the fate of his birthday, and harvey did kill mr. rabbit

I think it was harvey.

Dale goes to the hotel, and it's really confusing for my 3 braincells

ah, yeah. thats it

thanks for coming to my ted talk

🧍

istg if this is somehow right I will scream

[ebon aspen]

Unless harvey is a version of dale from another dimension that somehow found a way to come to ours, ig that just the fact that they appear together several times thru the series already break this theory
And if they are the same being, well, mr owl could just make harvey his substitute and let dale enjoy his life as a detectove like nothing was happening with the lake

[glacial totem]

eh, who knows.

[floral mauve]

Well, Harvey has appeared in every Rusty lake game, so it doesnt prove anything

[winter scarab]

Has he really?

That surprises me a bit

But it makes sense

[azure bay]

We see Harvey there ONLY if we've seen his secret scene

[manic cedar]

I don’t think he’s in CE lake, but he definitely appears more than any other character

[azure bay]

there's no direct appearance in Case 23 either

No Harvey in Arles

[real lantern]

Oh, someone fast on the trigger

[covert wyvern]

yeehaw

the fastest ban in the west.

[real lantern]

Its high noon bots!

[azure bay]

Discord decided to notify me about his message only now :c

[covert wyvern]

not sure what you missed, we're dealing with some scambots right now so those may be the notifications you're getting.

[azure bay]

The problem is, if scambot's messages reach me with delay the legit theories & questions could as well

[covert wyvern]

a good point! probably a discord issues, it be like that.

[floral mauve]

No new theories if there is no new games😢

[azure bay]

Disagree

[turbid crater]

Could be dales past life as well

Kinda like how Mr rabbit came back as a new different rabbit

In paradox they both have their own numbers so it's not the same rabbit. New incarnation, same soul.

Could be the same with dale

[ebon aspen]

still, they coexist at the same time ig this is a redundant sentence but whatever

[turbid crater]

Do incarnations have to be sequential tho? Sale could have an older soul than Harvey

Dale*

[ebon aspen]

you cant reincarnate unless you die i think XD

[turbid crater]

Sure but do u have to be born again as someone in the future? Y not present or past

It would explain y D Eilander was looking for Dales parents specifically

And grandfather

[ebon aspen]

the bday events happened bc the vandermeers had that pistol, after the massacre the gun is missing as the rabbit took it

why killing a whole family and traumatizing a 9yo just bc you found you sister's murder weapon? really dunno

[turbid crater]

O is that a roots thing

That's the only one I haven't played yet

[ebon aspen]

but that still wouldnt be a point to dal and harvey being the same

[ebon aspen]

hotel actually

[turbid crater]

Could Harvey be one of the other vandermeers maybe

Or like

A as of yet unmentioned vandermeer

Grandpa?

[ebon aspen]

could be, but i cant see how it would affect the lore so i just take harvey as the good old mysterious parrot he is

[turbid crater]

If he was the grandpa it could be direct revenge on him

Then when grandpa got shot he reincarnated as a regular non anthropomorphized parrot

Also named harvey

And of the same species

[ebon aspen]

so... harvey turn on grandpa vandermeer then on harvey again?

[turbid crater]

Like grandpa is Harvey that worked at the hotel

He'd be the right age too

His head probly pops in and out like Mr Owl and Mr Crow

Actually I changed my mind that explanation makes way more sense than him being dale

That'd also explain y he has the pistol

And y he's the one who uses the pistol in birthday

[ebon aspen]

Well, i think its very unlikely to harvey and grandpa vandermeer (or any other person known) be the same, and here is why
Firstly, harvey is wandering around for waaaay longer than it seems. My pick (considering paradise events) is that he was an acquitance/pet of caroline that drank her uncompleted elixir and became what he is; that would explain why we cam se him next to the flower we put in front of carols picture soon after (both have smth with the flower)
We have a lot of other stuff regarding harvey, so wont gonna lose time talking about him and go straight to old vandermeer
Why/how he has the pistol sure is a mystery, but is more likely that he randomly got it at a pawn shop than being a souvenir from his days of hotel. My guess? Mr owl doing his things so he could put dale in the path he wanted
And finally, using the pistol doesnt mean a thing tbh.

[azure bay]

Harvey has absolutely NO REASON to be Dale or be anyhow connected to him.

IN CASE grandpa is someone secretly related to the lake, he's Mr. Crow & Mr. Crow alone. That in fact WOULD explain the pistol. (yet this connection is still kinda debatable)

In case grandpa IS NOT Mr. Crow, Owl's schemes could explain pistol's presence but I don't think that's the case & here's why. Long term plans are fragile & unrealistic. Too many variables to account too much of fluctuation possibility with potential to ruin everything. Talking about more substantial evidence, consider Owl communicating with Dale via the snow globe from 1966. I expect this date being important.

Despite Owl discovering Dale as his successor back in 1893, there's likely no way to know about him even a little bit. Is it possible to find him before he was even born with no data like name, place of residence, place of work? I think no. What's more, he could be expected not to know about him for long even after he WAS actually born as still no name & still different look due to young age.

I think 1966 is the year Owl finally found Dale or at least seriously took him into consideration & started to prepare his journey by communicating through time, memories or whatever you like.

Talking about pistol, this version of events doesn't explain its appearance at all. However, that's ok for me. I'd rather prefer this pistol just falling into Vandermeers' hands in SEEMINGLY random way as a part of trope "common guy with uncommon fate".

The bigger reason is not that necessary

[quick birch]

Wow

[quick birch]

Remember when I said stuff about that one fisherman who exist in most of the games? Someone said it may be Dale. But i dont think so. I think it may be Mr. Crow. In a game (I dont remember which one was it) Mr. Crow was in a boat

[covert wyvern]

Mr crow is in a boat in Cube escape; case23

[ebon aspen]

well, the game where a fisherman plays some kind of role is the cave, and mr crow was going deep down the lake in that submarine to be fishing

[covert wyvern]

this is true too&

[manic cedar]

The fisherman seems to be different people at different times, it's Crow in Case 23, Jacob in Paradise and some random guy in Cave

[covert wyvern]

I do personally think its a play on the "and fishing" bit of rusty lake

everyone can go fish, apparently.

[grizzled bluff]

It's good for your mental healthy, so I've heard

[azure bay]

Don't confuse fisherman with rowman

& neither Eilander qualifies since they either had no hat or no boat

[nocturne yarrow]

My crackpot theory- in the circumstances where we can’t see their face, the rower/fisherman is a future version of Dale. I have little evidence, but it makes sense to me plot and character-wise. Dale has icthyophobia, so having a life based around fish is a cheeky way to show him “ascending” beyond his current limits to become the ruler of the lake. My only other justification is that it would be very fitting for Dale, the sorta-main-character of the series, to become the symbol of the studio.

[vague imp]

Isn’t the timeline where the grandfather had the pistol only in Dale’s mind while he’s under the lake getting fiddled with? I didn’t think it was supposed to have actually happened

Wait dale has icthyphobia?

[high talon]

Yes he does

[ebon aspen]

Personally i dont like time travel theories, but my friend, this would be so much lovely

[royal notch]

I personally think the same.

[manic cedar]

It’s in his files in paradox

[vague imp]

Oh yeah

[astral frost]

An interesting comment about the elixir on Reddit

It distinguishes the search for the elixir and the search for the immortality

Which would make sense

Even if Mr Owl predicted his future Animal form as a fish

[floral mauve]

Ah shit here we go again

The path indicates by TWD showing that Dale has become deer headed

So it’s likely he didn’t save Laura

Instead he completed the elevator journey and up to the hotel

With golden cube that might be full elixir plus deva form

[astral frost]

Ok ok, but I was pointing out another thing

The goal of Mr Owl and Mr Crow could simply be "retiring" and living a quiet life as eternal Asuras

[vague imp]

I read that as “elixir of Reddit” and was like damn I don’t want to know what that does to you

[paper sandal]

Might have something to do with, let us say... Ability of passing on the genome.

[vague imp]

Instead of sprouting feathers you sprout a neck beard

[vivid bridge]

I hope we get more information on that weird window ghost in Mr. Rabbit's room

I made a whole theory about it but we need more information

[azure bay]

What do you have already?

[vague imp]

What window ghost do you mean

[real lantern]

I think they mean the dark mr.rabbit that shows up in his window

[floral mauve]

That plot would just be boring

Imagine Mr Owl is just like Caroline who murdered and manipulated tones of ppl but turns out to be a nice guy that just want a peaceful retirement

(I am not assuming Caroline is a cold blood murderer but she could be since her experiment was about memories)

Plus, I doubt Mr Crow is with Mr Owl completely, they are just partners at some point.

[azure bay]

Currently they are in the same drowning boat

& act as close friends

I don't see any good reason for Crow to go on separate way from Owl

Honestly I tend to see SCP foundation as the closest thing to them

they can do horrible things

just in order to prevent catastrophe

The lake if isn't taken care of is capable of that at some scale

& Owl starts to fail

he desperately needs someone to replace him as fast as possible

& it's the best to pick someone even better than him

I expect both Owl & Crow to perish soon after Dale taking his new place

If Crow's situation were better he probably could think more about himself

I guess even Owl wouldn't mind him becoming a temporary ruler

I just don't see any difference in their condition

[paper sandal]

So, I am genuinely curious about this figure that during some "outbreak" turned into the known and loved parrot Harvey.

Are there any theories about them or in general Mr. Owl replacing helpers and such?

[real lantern]

Well, some say that harvey died and was brought back as the lovely harvey

By Mr.owl

[paper sandal]

As well I see some similarities in Mr. Crow and the old man with the sewn together mouth

[real lantern]

Including the fact that he is shown to be Mr.crow in the cave and case 23?

[paper sandal]

Oh yes excuse me for my stupidity

[real lantern]

Oh, dont worry haha, sorry if i sounded rude

[paper sandal]

Well, Mr. Owl either created an illusion with dead Dale or something and then brought down the light beam

And Mr. Parrot was as well turned in circumstances involving a beam of light

Maybe that has connection

[paper sandal]

Either calculated where the beam would hit

Wait are there unified theories here on the beams of light that keep on coming, changing stuff

[azure bay]

I know what I'm saying

[floral mauve]

It is also possible that Mr Crow murdered the old man and wear his skin for some fked up reason (possibly the previous owner of the windmill?)

[azure bay]

I rarely say so but... BULLSHIT

The old man looks like Aldous

& no one should deny that

@floral mauve

[floral mauve]

oh

then he must have a special way preserve his skin

its not necessary to reveal himself by rip off his head in case 23

as if he has a mask made of skin

[royal notch]

I think that Aldous' face is the one we see in Theathre, Roots and Cave (in the book), but, for some reason, he wear a mask of old man. Probably (just a thought), he needs to be a different person between being the old man of the mill and the barman in the Theathre, in order to avoid to attract suspects.

[azure bay]

guys it's not a mask

it's his face

the transformation is just unsettling

just art
in The Cave it's the same old man

the transformation there is as strange

just nicer to look at

[royal notch]

I know... but why rapresent him in 2 different ways?

[azure bay]

specifically to disprove this skinface theory
I think it's just not important how it goes. Either way is unrealistic & surreal. The artstyle naturally complements it.
I guess, if we saw such a transformation in a movie it would look hell much different.

[astral frost]

They've just changed artstyle, I agree

Creators and artists who work on a saga can change ideas through years

[royal notch]

Yes, but still, they've used 2 different rapresentations in the same game. It's a bit weird.

[azure bay]

in 2 separate games

with 2 years difference

[royal notch]

Cave!

[azure bay]

The skin one was in case 23

[royal notch]

Also in Cave.

[azure bay]

I assume there's a misunderstanding

what 2 different representations r u talking about?

[royal notch]

Aldous and the old man of the mill (i know they're the same).

[azure bay]

then y did you imply them being in the same game?

[royal notch]

In Cave, Aldous is (in my opinion) disguised as the old man, but in the book he's rapresented with his real aspect.

[azure bay]

he's just got older

while preserving some facial features

[royal notch]

But the entire face is changed, even the form. Also, we see him as Aldous just a year before, in Theathre, how can he get older so fast?

[azure bay]

1. even in Theater he still had the same ears, nose & forhead
2. he also looked exactly like himself in Roots
3. Theater's reality is one of the most debatable. His younger look could be an illusion
4. Elixir's effects could wear off not long after 1971

[royal notch]

Damn 3, it's always its fault.

[real lantern]

Oh, im sorry, didnt mean to come off as rude haha, i was just stating the fact that some people (like you for example) say that he was brought back by Mr.owl haha

[azure bay]

My problem is you seem not to be convinced. & I thought I was the guy who doubts obvious things

[real lantern]

Its just that its been some time since i spent some time here, so i didnt want to say any theory was the right one without remembering the info behind it

[azure bay]

Well. The screenshot is all the info here this time 😊

[violet vessel]

okay yall idk if i’m just being stupid and this was obvious but the white mr rabbit who tried to kill dale during his 9th birthday ...WAS THAT OLDER DALE?!? bc there’s like a note that says something like “i’m sorry but i have to do this because (something about his life now or a past life) i have to do this to get out of the state i’m in. i’m truly sorry-mr rabbit” BUT I NOTICED THAT WHEN THE RABBIT DIED IT LOOKED LIKE HE WAS WEARING DALES SUIT ????? yall maybe this was obvious and i’m just catching on now bc im slow but this is wack as fuck— if it is him,,he probably wanted to kill his 9 year old self so he wouldn’t have to deal with the murder of the woman but then mr owl is like deal with your past tho (but that’s bc mr owl wants adult dale to deal with the corrupted souls so mr owl tells 9 yr old dale to stop older dale who was trying to stop 9yr old dale from growing up and having to deal with the corrupted souls..... guys i’m so shook this game is so beautifully crafted and this is just my theory but let me know what you all think

[vocal knoll]

yes ... I had thought about that too, but I don't know how true it is. About the letter, he could be referring to the form of him as David Eilander, that is, the human form of him. Or perhaps it refers to the form of him as a corrupted soul? I don't know, but you are right in saying that this story is excellently done.

[azure bay]

@vocal knoll @violet vessel
The killer's name is confirmed to be D. Eilander. Most likely David Eilander who's wearing a rabbit mask in Paradise & also is believed to be reborn as Mr. Rabbit before Hotel game.

at least this mystery seems to be solved. How he got to this is yet to be discovered though.

[vocal knoll]

Sure, I already knew that the killer is D. Eilander, but it's a bit confusing that his clothes look so much like Dale's. In any case, his motivation has to be related in some way to his death in Hotel ... or so I think.

[azure bay]

His motivation was vague but we can still get some info from the letter of his

& also his actions

He was after some substance f his past life that would help him escaping his state

He left his letter by the chest where grandpa's pistol was kept which seems to be taken by Rabbit

Ms. Pheasant killed herself with similarly looking pistol

[vocal knoll]

Well, that revolver is a recurring object, like the knife, or matches.

I think with that same gun Robert shot himself ... I think

[azure bay]

it's not a revolver...
Either way he indicates it being related to his past life

I assume, the one of Pheasant's could be somehow related to Rabbit since they worked together at theater

[vocal knoll]

oh sorry, i don't know much about weapons 😅

And because in the days of paradise they were brothers, right? Elizabeth and David Eilander

[azure bay]

they were but I don't think they remembered it. At least consciously

[vocal knoll]

consciously maybe not, but we know that somehow they know, because if not, what would be the motivation of Mr. Owl in taking them all to the Hotel? After all, he was also enlightened

[azure bay]

Owl just needed their memories

their connections of the past could be relevant for the choice but I can't imagine yet how

[vocal knoll]

sure, but JUST to them? there are more enlightened people, there is the hotel bellboy, Mr. Toad, Mr. Crow ... but hey, it's just a personal theory, don't pay too much attention to me

[azure bay]

no-no I'm interested in personal theories

do you have something specific on your mind?

[violet vessel]

oof okay it’s been a long time since i’ve played all the games and i’m just replaying them now,,, i think i—or all of us in this discord room should make like a chart showing whos who and who’s the same person bc it’s so hard for me at least to remember,,ima have to get real deep into this game theory over summer break

[azure bay]

most of these "who is who" statements are theories
some are stronger than the others
some are believed more than the others

[vocal knoll]

I think it is the need to give a sacrifice to the lake and revenge in equal parts, you know what I'm talking about? I understand (correct me if not) that Mr. Owl is Caroline's corrupted soul and Jakob's enlightened soul, so it would be to get memories and in turn as revenge for sacrificing Caroline and then Jakob

[vocal knoll]

It is not a bad idea 😄

[azure bay]

In my personal opinion it's over-complicated.

1. I don't see any evidence of Owl consisting of Caroline since he has none of her memories nor her personality. That soul fusion could be something else.
2. I don't think Owl has good reasons for revenge. After all that was her own choice, they are technically not the same people who killed her & finally he was the one to actually win

[vocal knoll]

Yes, I thought about Caroline I read it somewhere, and I wasn't sure how true it was.

[azure bay]

nor am I

I just tell what I see & want to see

it's no way objective

[vocal knoll]

What happens to me is that it confuses me a bit about enlightened souls because I don't really understand how it works. Since you are telling me that there is no proof that they have past memories, but Mr. Crow knew that William was his brother and that he would be reborn in Laura (or so I understood in Roots)

that and time travel with the blue cubes confuses me a lot 😅

[azure bay]

I've kinda thought it through. I think memories & personalities are not forgotten if a person consumed elixir. Jacob kinda did it (Caroline took all the ingredients from her memories) while Eilanders were asking the powerful lake to enlighten them

[vocal knoll]

so it depends on the way they are illuminated?

[azure bay]

I guess so

some tend to think that effect of Jacob's elixir was somehow spread upon the others

[vocal knoll]

that would explain your theory that Mr. Owl doesn't remember him, but that Mr. Crow does (and also James's dog, who seems to remember the entire Vanderboom family xD)

[azure bay]

no, Owl remembers all

he's shown it in Paradox

I'm talking about the rest of his family

They seem to ascend in a different way since only "one will die & the other will be enlightened"

[vocal knoll]

Oh, I get it

sure, sorry, I'm stupid xD

[azure bay]

don't be harsh towards yourself

[vocal knoll]

uff, I really like having people with whom to debate in this way, thanks for clarifying my doubts

[azure bay]

who'd clarify mine :з

But seriously you'd better conduct a research or your own

& make your own conclusions

I tend to think more & more that there is no objective truth about this series

[vocal knoll]

that's the essence of this community, after all

[azure bay]

what exactly is?

[vocal knoll]

that there is no absolute truth, that people can create their own theories

[azure bay]

sadly, I don't meet that many theorists. Here they are in abundance but I rarely see here hot discussions of 2 equally strong sides

on reddit memes are way more popular than theories

[vocal knoll]

When I finish studying all the games, you will have me to debate what you want B)

[azure bay]

I take your word on that

[vocal knoll]

of course 🤙

[royal notch]

Sad truth... Talking about Reddit, sometimes i go having a look at the subreddit and yesterday i saw that || you started a discussion with not so much partecipation||, so, if you want, i'll be honored to talk about it with you. But tomorrow, now i got to study.

[azure bay]

You mean the elixir question which merely few people answered?

[royal notch]

Exactly.

[crude horizon]

Do the guests of Hotel go to the Hotel multiple times?

[azure bay]

Definitely not Mr. Boar
(unless the letter we see on his wall is several decades old)

[crude horizon]

no all of them

even him

[azure bay]

well

If it was his 1st time in the Hotel game therefore they did not see each other there before

we've seen them in Roots during time that normally predates Hotel game

it contradicts the letter

[crude horizon]

yeah that's what I was thinking of

[azure bay]

something is not true here. Either Roots scene or Hotel letter

another possibility - something's odd with time

then it's either temporal anomaly in the hotel or William sees the future

however, many dislike time shenanigans

[azure bay]

conclusion: we don't know the answer

pretty much like for many other questions

[nocturne yarrow]

Considering it was a minor detail in an earlier game, I think the letter may be wrong, as most of what we see in Roots is supposed to be stone cold fact. It’s not impossible that RL wanted a Hotel cameo in the game and forgot to check the correct timing.

[royal notch]

@azure bay, i'm here if you're free.

[azure bay]

alright

what do you have to say?

[royal notch]

So, let's call the "drink" the "liquid elixir". The full elixir is something more powerful, but what's more powerful of the near-immortality than the real immortality? But that's contradicts Samsara.

[azure bay]

yeah, that's pretty much it

do you have anything to add?

[royal notch]

No, i just wanted to hear your opinion.

[azure bay]

It tend to generalize thing rather than separating them

Here I've already told my opinion several times

I recon that any elixir we've seen is pretty much full except for the extract in the cave

I imagine all of them give in theory immortality

unless they have a flaw

We've seen that elixir leaves the dog's body via defecation

& these leaving particles are free to reuse

thus their effect is limited in time

the time they are yet inside a body

[royal notch]

So, you think that the liquid elixir can grant immortality?

The pure one.

[azure bay]

at least prolong life

potentially for unlimited amount of time ||as long as you stay out of toilet which is technically impossible||

[royal notch]

So the full elixir would be the solution.

[azure bay]

it would be

unless we're yet to define what it is

[royal notch]

But then the immortality is possible.

[azure bay]

no, you don't get my idea

technically it's impossible

maybe just theoretically

also asurs are shown to be killed

that also ruins infinity

[royal notch]

This is where i wanted to get.

Samsara.

If Samsara prevent the immortality, then the full elixir must give something else which is not immortality.

[azure bay]

given that elixirs of William & Caroline are not full. Which I tend to disagree

[royal notch]

Why? If those elixirs are good, why Jakob and co. are struggling to get the full elixir?

[azure bay]

because they don't have it?

both William & Caroline are dead

[royal notch]

I know, but why they need It?

[azure bay]

1. to extend their own lives for a little while
2. to enlighten Dale so he could take their place

[royal notch]

Ahhh, OK, right, the time is finishing, Sorry.

But wait.

If they just need the elixir, why don't just extract Laura's recipe memory?

[azure bay]

I think they did something more efficient

her cubes contain hell ton of memories

I think the machine did something like that for them

[royal notch]

Me too, but why don't just extract the right memory?

[azure bay]

you need to find it 1st

i guess

[royal notch]

So, do you think that for now there still isn't an appropriate technology to identify a certain memory before extraction?

[azure bay]

I have no idea

on another hand, Owl has located future memories of the guests

maybe they could experiment with Laura when she visited the lake

maybe fail

[royal notch]

You made me blow my head this istant! This could be even the reason why Bob has been at the Institute!

[azure bay]

yeah, got similar thoughts

something doesn't add up

they were able to locate future memories of a (bunch of) CS but didn't locate the past memories of another CS

[royal notch]

Maybe because of the water!

Everytime we see specific memories, is in the water!

[azure bay]

no

Laura's cubes were concentrated

[royal notch]

But, as you said, they're not "specific"!

[azure bay]

yet they were still in the water

[royal notch]

When they got extracted, no!

They've been putted in here later.

[azure bay]

when is later?

[royal notch]

When Mr Crow putted them in the Lake.

[azure bay]

they were combined together on extraction

the water has nothing to do with some memories being separated

Dale's memories could be extracted separately

[royal notch]

But they've been extracted by the Lake itself.

[azure bay]

I guess so

[royal notch]

So, it could be that there isn't a technology able to extract SPECIFIC memories, but It seems that the water of the Lake is able to do that. Let's think at every memory extraction we had.

1. Caroline: her memories have been found with her remains after her death, but she died because of the fire. In seasons we learn that memories have a particul interaction with fire, so it can be an ecception.
2. The guests: we didn't see the extraction properly, but we can see their cubes contained in cells with water. It can be water of the Lake, able to do is job even if separated from the rest. Mr Owl could have simply putted all the guests' skulls in there.
3. Laura: her memories got extracted with a machine, and so they're not separated.
4. Dale: he lost his memories (and, for the shock, consciousness) immediatly after getting immersed in the Lake, and his memories are separated.

This could even give the explanation of Bob's case.

[azure bay]

1. There was no bones in the coffin. What's more her memories seemed to float with smoke during her sacrifice.
2. He wasn't shocked. Not feeling body, seeing time differently & one's own immediately floating memories seem to be supernatural effects of the lake

[royal notch]

1. We saw Caroline's memories floating, but after that? They can't have locked themselves in the chests!

[azure bay]

the 1st memory already featured a locked coffin

it wouldn't get there naturally

I assume Caroline's CS watched her own funeral & put her fresh memory in the coffin afterwards

[royal notch]

That can also be.

[azure bay]

your 'also' is suspicious. What alternative do you have?

[royal notch]

No, no, i already said that, that the Eilanders could have found them, not knowing what they were, and, thinking that they could have been useful later, they locked them. But that doesn't change the story.

[azure bay]

I know you've already said that

[royal notch]

I just never thought that.

[azure bay]

I just want you to be more specific

how it happened

Because there's no way I can imagine Caroline's memories about her own funeral getting in the sealed coffin

[royal notch]

Me neither.

[azure bay]

We should review these 10 memories separately

some of them are in direct possession of Eilanders

the others are weird

like the one we get by burning bone meal

[royal notch]

And the last one, still in Caroline's possession.

[azure bay]

not really. She just hid it

[royal notch]

Yeah, i meant that.

[azure bay]

returning to elixir, I have a guess

Caroline used elements from her memories on Jacob right away during their extraction

elements extraction I mean

I guess in order to repeat that, Owl required Dale

& scavenging Laura's memories for the formula right away wasn't that required since they have a simpler way to get some elixir

[royal notch]

You mean James' dog?

[azure bay]

yeah

[royal notch]

But, if the full elixir isn't different from the liquid elixir...

Why they have to get the golden cube to enlighten Dale, and don't extract Laura's recipe memory, to recreate it and make him drink it?

[azure bay]

I guess because making the machine do all the job is easier?

and remember

Caroline's elixir was also seemingly a cube, according to her book

[royal notch]

Wait, we need to reasume all the steps of this plan, reasoning about what is more easy.

I'm going to write everything that the enlighteneds must have done for this plan.

[royal notch]

1. Make Laura win the contest, organizing her trip to Rusty Lake, where she'll get hella traumatized.
2. Wait for Laura's death.
3. Answer to Dale's call about the contest, in order to make him think about Rusty Lake.
4. Find a way to transport Laura's body to Mr Crow's mill.
5. Look if Dale is able to find the first 2 cubes in his office, to see if he's "the one who could stop the currupted souls wandering under the Lake".
6. Kidnap him.
7. Transport him to Rusty Lake.
8. Ask to the Lake to give storm, permetting to gave energy at the mill. After that, lock Dale in the chapel.
9. Extract Laura's memories (not separated), and throw them in the Lake.
10. "Survive" to Laura's corrupted soul.
11. Be ready in the middle of the Lake for when Dale will call for help.
12. Go rescuing him, show your true form and trasport him to the cabin.
13. When Dale reach the bottom, be ready to defend him from the 5 corrupted souls.
14. Lock him in the cube under the Lake.
15. Find an excuse to lure Laura's corrupted soul in there.
16. Find Laura's corrupted soul to talk to her.
17. Lock her once she got there.
18. Use the submarine to get the right cubes.
19. Reach again the cube (surviving from the guests' corrupted souls) and create the golden cube.
20. Send Dale at the hotel with it.
    And this isn't even all!!!!

And these are only the parts where the enlighteneds are involved!

[azure bay]

some may be easier than you anticipate

for example, Owl & Crow seem pretty chill against CS

Laura was not necessarily lured or reasoned

They could just kidnap her

making her win is also not a problem in my eyes

her death may or may not be planned

[royal notch]

I agree with that, but since she dies, i see a easiest way to enlighten Dale.

[azure bay]

I think that's not that crucial

apparently she alive would do as good as corrupted

[royal notch]

I think it too, but she dies. And this time there's no way to return her back.

Sadly.

[azure bay]

at least from their pov

I still tend to think that she may shape another reality around herself

[royal notch]

What do you mean?

[azure bay]

in simpler words do Rick Sanchez & pick (or rather create) a preferable timeline to live in

[royal notch]

You're talking about "Rick and Morty"? I'm sorry, i never watched It. 🥲 But i saw some scenes, do you mean when they got in another dimension where their avatar are dead?

[azure bay]

rather counterparts

but pretty much yeah

[royal notch]

(i Just Remember that One because i got traumatized seeing It)

But they have technology to travel in different dimensions, haven't they?

[azure bay]

in this universe it could be cubes

CS in order to make their existence better seemingly have to "balance the substance of their past lives"

that also seems to be required for Dale to be overenlightened

and Birthday & Seasons are pretty much alike

so Laura's actions in Seasons could be seen as balancing this substance

[royal notch]

Gosh, if now it's even possibile that cubes allow interdimensional travel, then i'll stop theorizing for the rest of my life! :Frank_Laugh:

[azure bay]

that what we've seen in Seasons

Laura planted a cactus & Dale witnessed it to be grown

but it's not dimentions yet

that looks like time travel

dimensions come from one of the theories of time travel

the one that resolves the "grandfather paradox"

that may not be the thing even in case RL have implemented time travel into their story

if time travel doesn't create new dimensions then Seasons has to cancel whole Dale's arc

and that's not what I'd like

even though it's subjective

[royal notch]

Seasons always has been a big problem.

[azure bay]

it's bearable

another evidence of different timelines are multiple endings in several games

contradicting ones

[royal notch]

I'm only scared to the doubt that, in future, we'll see things happening in other timelines.

[azure bay]

that's a good tool to generate new stories later on if used right

[royal notch]

True. Maybe the Past Whitin Is already one of them.

[azure bay]

It seems too early for that

but you may be right

[royal notch]

I just don't see how Albert's return couldn't create some troubles.

[azure bay]

theoretically, it won't if he returns like William

with a new body & personality

[royal notch]

That's true, but then i don't get why the devs want us to resurrect him.

I mean, it's a thing i wouldn't love to do.

[azure bay]

that's pretty popular & iconic character despite being controversial

[royal notch]

Weird but true.

[azure bay]

In my eyes he did a lot of horrible things but is it really his fault? How would the story go if some thing would have gone differently?

for example, some anticipate that James being alive would help

In my book Albert deserves redemption

sure thing he has to earn it

[royal notch]

I honestly think that he's an asshole, but not completely. I mean, many people say that Mary has even been a bad mother with him and that she never punished Samuel for that stupid joke, but there are no evidences about that, and so i don't think that Mary Is a bad person for no reasons. Albert has been guided by revenge, but that's all. I mean, for my POV Nicholas is 100 times more hateful than him.

[azure bay]

Mary doesn't have to be bad person to screw up in parenthood

it's enough to be a weak person

or uncaring one

[proper jetty]

I have a theory

Ready

Mr rabbit is a dick

[high talon]

Lol

[covert wyvern]

that's a lot of spacing for just three sentences,

I suggest you don't pull that again.

[azure bay]

Just like Mr. Crow, Albert, Harvey, the Eilanders, Mr. Boar, kinda Laura & most importantly Mr. Owl himself

[covert wyvern]

but lmao, ye ^

[paper sandal]

*The entirety of the personnel of the Rusty Lake and the White Door

[azure bay]

I don't think all personnel knew Owl's plans

even none may know

Owl could personally fake diagnosis for all the patients

I don't tell it's realistic

the thing is we don't know

[paper sandal]

Nescience does not free from responsibility

[azure bay]

actually it may do that at the court

nah, too vile

[paper sandal]

If you mutilate the lives of many people and mess with their memories to basically erase them from life by an order it still does not revert your actions

[azure bay]

they did not erase Bob's memories

they set them back

[azure bay]

I'm sure many of good people theought they were curing real patients & did their jobs

[paper sandal]

Laura though did not have such a good ending

[azure bay]

unless Seasons ending is real

I know these connections. However that doesn't confirm revenge

[paper sandal]

Though the shady files distributed by management even in the lowest "ranks" may say otherwise in some cases

But it is still too complicated to figure out now

[azure bay]

no info what so ever

But he was the one to actually win

he became one of the most powerfull beings

it was her own choice & all according to her plan to make Owl be born

plus, the guests were not Eilanders anymore. They don't seem to remember a thing

technically, different people

[paper sandal]

I in all honesty think that Mr. Owl does not control what he does to the fullest

[azure bay]

he doesn't. But still he's higher than everyone else we've seen

conclusions?

well

Boar seems to be much more like Gerard than everyone else

the uncle

theoretically he had enough time to become ambassador. The problem is he still doesn't show any knowledge of the lake & the island

therefore, I assume, he has a different personality

[paper sandal]

Are there any theories on what the Lake itself is?

[azure bay]

originally I thought it's naraka (hell) creature.

it was wrong

narakas are actually not creatures but rather worlds

there are at least 7 real lakes called Rusty

[paper sandal]

Maybe a deep dive into buddhism, its terminology and else can give a lot of answers

[azure bay]

so the lake is kinda hell. Sapient for some reason

[azure bay]

I doubt that. Devs just scratched the surface. & even then they've changed some core concepts

[paper sandal]

That is true.

[azure bay]

she welded the knife but still she could've been possessed by any CS

have you ever wondered why Paradox has got that name?

[paper sandal]

Even still remnants of the concepts can be seen

[azure bay]

The paradox in the game was Dale seeing another Dale killing Laura

Dale from a different time preiod

this paradox could reflect the global reality

corrupted Dale from another time/timeline/reality could kill Laura so the living one could start his investigation

however, that's just a theory

Laura could kill herself due to her depression

[paper sandal]

Yes, but a stab in the back? Correct me if I am wrong with the location of the wound

Oh

It was the neck

[azure bay]

It's important to say that both versions are not ideal

they both have weak spots

they both could even be wrong at the same time

[paper sandal]

1d4 psychic damage

[azure bay]

Another one: Harvey used to be a male in the previous life as an asur.

[cerulean crypt]

Well in parot form Harvey is an female

[azure bay]

notably the parrot is unable to change form. At least since 1894

legit death took place

& that was Owl to resurrect his servant

[manic cedar]

My head canon is that Harvey is afab trans man legend

[peak ginkgo]

i agree

[proper jetty]

I mean fair but killing my family ain't right. I mean we never kill anything in these gam....

Oh never mind.

[humble coral]

My theory is in wich country is the rusty lake. You will probably say the Netherlands but thats not the country where the rusty lake is. Let me explain: the rusty lake is in a Mountainy area in the Netherlands there are n mountains and in roots when leonard goes to the trenches his uniform wasnt the dutch uniform of that time. So it isnt in the Netherlands then where it is? And i know the awnser of that. Its Canada. Canada has Mountainy land. They joined ww1 under british rule. and leonard had a british suit on in the trenches. Further more is the rusty lake in english (this also could just be a game mechanich) so there you have it proof that the rusty lake is in Canada. I will do a part 2 in a couple of weeks in wich canadisn provence.

[covert wyvern]

This mostly checks out, if you believe RL to be in a country at all. The Netherlands is definitely not it

[humble coral]

Yes i Mean if it was in a real country

And in rusty lake arles you arnt in Canada but in France of the Netherlands (i dont know where the sterrennacht was made)

[azure bay]

Americans also wore brody helmets back then & the grenade that took Leonard's leg was american KJ MKII

[humble coral]

Thats a good one that means that it also could be in the usa

[azure bay]

btw. Was it your own research about Canada?

[humble coral]

Yes my own

I am pretty New to rusty lake so sorry if it is wrong

[azure bay]

no I'm impressed

Acrtually it's difficult to say what's right or wrong

[humble coral]

I know about the games a year of 2 and picked it up a few weeks ago

[azure bay]

can you tell more on why it's not in Europe?

[humble coral]

Well it isnt in austria what i thought first bc of the uniform of leonard

[humble coral]

They or not have the uniform or the mountains

[azure bay]

what about north of England?

[humble coral]

I do this out of my head so i could be wrong

[humble coral]

That also could be a possebiliy but i then do not get that dutch familys move to there

Paradise plays in 1795 so it could be that the vandermeer's where second or third generation pioneers in Canada and finnaly settelen the lake

[azure bay]

Wikipedia says they are not as numerous there but still present

[humble coral]

Yes but i think it has to be in the New world

Europeans where going there like flies to a lamp

[azure bay]

The chapel bares a year that predates colonization of America

[humble coral]

Ah

Thats a good one

That says that it is in northeren england

[azure bay]

unless the chapel is not that important

[humble coral]

It probably is

[azure bay]

Some may disagree

there are also some wild justifications

1. There was a precedent of transporting a church between countries

[humble coral]

Mmmm hard one this

[azure bay]

it's wild because there's no one to attend this chapel

[humble coral]

Yes

[azure bay]

therefore to pay its transportation across the ocean

[humble coral]

Yes

[azure bay]

2. The Lake's location is spacial anomaly
   So some may find it in north america, some in europe, some in Arles

that's wild because of further lack of evidence

[humble coral]

Arles plays in france of the Netherlands as you play as van gogh who lived his live there