🤔｜theories

[final basalt]

Which happens all the time

[real lantern]

I dont think so

[final basalt]

(I still really like this theory even if it doesn't make sense lol)

[ivory girder]

paradise happens in 1796 and hotel is like 1893

[final basalt]

I think ascension makes you ageless though

[ivory girder]

and mr. boar according to rusty lake is 52 years old

[ivory girder]

but with that how the hell mr. boar is the oldest, it should be mrs. pigeon

[final basalt]

True, very true

[real lantern]

I just think that, after they sacrificed jacob and they didnt become enlightened they all went their separate ways and became enlightened... somehow alone

[final basalt]

It just feels weird because the way the ending of Paradise pans out it really feels like that's what they were hinting at

[ivory girder]

yeah it is so weird

[real lantern]

Hinting at what?

[final basalt]

I think it's one of those theories where unless there's dev confirmation we'll be arguing till the death of the internet

[ivory girder]

but then the younger sister in the eilander's family is blind and somehow according to rusty lake in hotel ms. pheasant's job is an actress so it doesn't make any sense if they are the same person

[real lantern]

Hinting at wut?

[final basalt]

well if they took an arcane power they barely understand for themselves and turned themselves into anthropomorphic animal demigods i don't think blindness is much of a problem

[ivory girder]

they are hinting that the family = the guest at hotel i think that is what they mean

[final basalt]

The way the Owl totem speaks to Jacob before he takes on the mantle, and how there's a vision of the hotel, it strongly implies that it is the same family members that get invited back in Hotel

[real lantern]

Yes, and why doesnt that work?

[final basalt]

The older character bios that were up for Hotel's release i guess? But Paradise came out after so who knows

[ivory girder]

uh i just said the whole thing that they ain't the same

[real lantern]

.

Just like at partyes i keep getting ignored

[final basalt]

????

[ivory girder]

i did not ignore that lmao

[final basalt]

Bruh I'm not ignoring you it takes me time to type in mobile

Anyway. I know there's older info from Hotel's release. But I'll keep the theory for my own understanding of the series. Just like Twin Peaks it's massively up to each fan's interpretation.

[real lantern]

What i meant on that was, they got into a fight after the sacrifice didnt work, went on their separate ways, got enlightened at different time, and then all met back at the hotel when mr.owl called them

[final basalt]

I still have no idea how Dale is going to fit into everything, Paradox brought us a lot closer but still no definitive conclusion for his arc

[ivory girder]

there's a theory that dale's grandpa is mr.crow

[final basalt]

That's possible, definitely a resemblance and Vandermeer is even an echo of Vanderboom

[real lantern]

We constantly talk about dale, what is probably happening is that owl is training dale to become a step above enlightened to either take his place or somehow destroy the lake

Second one is less probable tho

[final basalt]

Or restore the balance

[covert wyvern]

It may be fair to presume for a moment Owl actually despises the lake

But I think destruction is much less probable yez

Yes***

[final basalt]

Considering his mom was sacrificed by his dad to control the lake i wouldn't blame him

[real lantern]

That is true hahaha, but i think he wants dale to take over feeding the lake so he can concentrate in creating a better elixir or something

[covert wyvern]

Exactly.

Ooh also interesting.

[final basalt]

I think his mom was more in tune with the lake. The difference between exploitation of/ communion with a higher power

[covert wyvern]

(it's also likely he just didn't know any better, considering where his family lived lmao)

[ivory girder]

yeah i think they get dale into the thing to like change the black cubes into white cubes like he did in birthday because like mr. owl said in mills, there're a lot of corrupted souls under the lake and corrupted souls are related to black cubes so...

[final basalt]

Hence why things went horribly wrong after she was killed

[real lantern]

Or, as i said above, simply no one knew how to feed the lake and it threw a temper tantrum

[final basalt]

Also an option.

[ivory girder]

i think the lake likes white cubes because in hotel u know mr. owl keeps the black cubes and we ain't see any white cubes, so that could mean the white cubes r being fed into the lake, and we could see in mills that when mr.crow feeds the lake black cubes, it went horribly wrong (his wife and the cow got killed)

[final basalt]

But I really don't think the Lake is "evil". I think the actions of the people surrounding it is what has caused the souls to become corrupt.

Tl;dr the Lake is a testy cat that gives back the same energy you feed into it, whether it was your intention or not

[ivory girder]

^

yeah what i mean is basically that

u feed white cubes = good stuff (aka enlightened), u feed black cubes = real bad stuff

[final basalt]

Or.....more accurately, the Lake is simply a reflection of human nature. For good or bad.

[real lantern]

I like to think of the lake as a hungry observer, it doesnt care about the people feeding it, but, as long as its being fed it stays calm, when its given "extra treats" like the 10 sacrifices from roots it gives something back, but other than that its just happy to keep getting fed

[final basalt]

Like how a real lake reflects its surroundings

[real lantern]

To use your same analogy, the lake is just like a cat, if you keep feeding it regularly it stays happy, if you give it extra treats it might roll on its back to let you pet its belly, if you forget to feed it, its gonna get cranky

[final basalt]

I think I should just do a writeup of the plot as I interpret it lol.

[real lantern]

Anyway, good night!

[floral mauve]

I think its due to false sacrifice of the first born, there will be something worse than 10 plagues if no memories were feed

Reincarnation may not happen in the same time since the function time of the samsara is unknown, they may not reincarnate in the same time.

[ivory girder]

but even if that is true this happened

[floral mauve]

Samsara its like reborn

you can cure the disease I believe

(I have discussed this convo for at least three times)

with different ppl

[cerulean crypt]

If you can change gender you can also cure things

Like diesese are linked to body not soul

[floral mauve]

exactly

even though the bulimia of Mr Boar is a sort of mental disease

[ivory girder]

hmm so why do rusty lake have to give info about their age to mess thing up?

[floral mauve]

which may not be cured

[floral mauve]

not necessarily mess things up

[azure bay]

it was probably before Eilanders were invented

[floral mauve]

ah yes my guy nowherecaw the professional is here to explain

[floral mauve]

Interesting approach here

[ivory girder]

i'm not new here btw

[floral mauve]

I think the lake only need to feed fresh memories no?

I'm new

[cerulean crypt]

But Mr.Crow gives black cubes to the lake

[floral mauve]

Mr Owl said to keep the balance of the lake

[ivory girder]

he did give white cube tho he gave it first

[floral mauve]

and apparently black cube is necessary

[azure bay]

just cubes are necessary

[floral mauve]

yes

fresh memories

(what if you feed loads of whites ones

without any black cube

does that break the balance

[azure bay]

u need to find them first

[floral mauve]

(massively kill ppl)

[ivory girder]

what do u guys define the age of the guests? like mr.boar is 52, is the age counted like since he was born till hotel or since he was enlightened till hotel

[azure bay]

there is no way Gerard being 54

[ivory girder]

yeah search it my dude

[floral mauve]

So in some previous convos I had with nowherecaw, we agreed that Mr Boar may exist the samsara
room first than other guests

[azure bay]

I know this info

[floral mauve]

basically they reincarnate in different time

[azure bay]

I'm just telling that Gerard has no way being 54 since he was at least 30 a century before

[floral mauve]

like some guests were born earlier than the others

[ivory girder]

u guys still doesn't answer my question

[floral mauve]

after enlightened

[ivory girder]

what i mean is how is it counted

[floral mauve]

probably enlightened till hotel

now I get it

(I was damn blind)

[azure bay]

I assume in guests' case being born & being enlightened is almost the same

[floral mauve]

otherwise they are all 80+

[floral mauve]

yep

reborn*

[ivory girder]

thanks for the answer

[floral mauve]

According to what we have seen

each person can only produce 1 black cube right?

like Bob

but multiple white ones

[ivory girder]

idk caroline has 10 black cubes

[floral mauve]

oh true

[cerulean crypt]

Dale has 2 blaxk cubes

[covert wyvern]

I think that's a Matter of how you define the cubes.

[floral mauve]

but she is not like a moving CS

[covert wyvern]

I personally think they're just one bad memory, in physical form

[floral mauve]

she is like a past memories displayer

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe some of them are bigger

[ivory girder]

at least 2 we don't know much what happened after theater

[covert wyvern]

So a person can have as many black cubes as they have memories

[ivory girder]

yeah it depends

[cerulean crypt]

Mayce you can fuse two cubes

[floral mauve]

I am asking this question is because 1 black cube can produce one CS

[cerulean crypt]

To one bigger

[floral mauve]

does that mean we can see many CS of one person?

if one can produce more than 1 black cube

[floral mauve]

at the same time

like Laura CS x10

[covert wyvern]

See that's an interesting concept. I don't think so. But I see the corrupted souls and cubesnas different entities

I understand some souls exist around a black cube

I can't explain that

[floral mauve]

but the guests

in the hotel ending

they are literally cubes

[azure bay]

that would contradict samsara

[floral mauve]

oh damn thats true

because its one form of that person

in preta

[ivory girder]

so a cs is made of black cubes or just only related to black cubes?

[azure bay]

CS seem to be produced via negative experience

[floral mauve]

emmmmm.....not made of black cube.....I believe

[azure bay]

that can be stored inside cubes

[cerulean crypt]

Extracting black cubes may produce CS

[floral mauve]

maybe activated by the black cube

[floral mauve]

yes that

[final basalt]

Well I found the smoking gun for my theory

Mr. Rabbit is confirmed to be David Eilander in Paradox. D. Eilander is the name you call to have Mr. Rabbit pay a visit.

[final basalt]

(Courtesy of Razz Jazz bc I forgot all about that segment)

[floral mauve]

may I ask what is your theory?

[final basalt]

That the guests in Hotel are the Eilander family from Paradise, and Mr. Owl brought them to the new hotel for revenge for what they did in Paradise.

[floral mauve]

oh

thats kinda the fact

but nvm

[azure bay]

why would he revenge?

[final basalt]

Well they did kill his mom and tried to kill him.

Mr. Owl is the oldest Eilander son, Jakob.

[floral mauve]

I mean its kinda weird since the Eilanders are like international students after they reincarnated

they left the RL to study some extra knowledge then return to investigate the RL again

also they seem to acknowledge the fact that they are gonna die

[azure bay]

she chose to sacrifice herself in order to make Jacob the most powerful being. He was the ultimate winner after all. & the guests seemed not to remember being Eilanders anymore. So he killed technically innocent people

[terse magnet]

Isn't the hotel in rusty lake though, built over where they used to live?

[floral mauve]

yes

[terse magnet]

👍

[floral mauve]

However, thats a bit contradictive since their name is theoretiacally the same after the reincarnation

[final basalt]

Caroline hints at the other family members wanting to exploit her memories to gain the power of the lake, though. So I don't think it was 100% her sacrifice.

She had an unusually strong connection to the lake

[floral mauve]

her memories made Elixir that caused Jakob to be enlightened

[terse magnet]

Probably why they killed her

[azure bay]

that was the case exclusively for Rabbit who since his death has lost his cubes & recollected them again

[terse magnet]

Oof

[final basalt]

A natural born witch of some kind maybe.

[floral mauve]

ah maybe thats why

so technically the Eilanders reincarnated like William

but in a kinda weird way

[terse magnet]

They're basically a mix of animals and the uh...Hungry spirit, forgot the other name to call it

[final basalt]

They "ascended" through means different from the elixir, sorcery rather than alchemy

[azure bay]

no, they were humans then demigods then ghosts

[terse magnet]

Mk

[floral mauve]

no thats two completely different things. Animal head is Asura, hungry ghost corrupted is preta

[terse magnet]

Mk

[floral mauve]

I personally think the alchemy Caroline way is an artificial way of creating Asura

which is unstable and not permanent

whereas the sacrifice is much more stable and independent

[azure bay]

1. for some reason this way seemed preferable even for Nicolas who was seemingly trying to find her elixir formula
2. samsara implies that there is no permanent way of getting higher forms

[final basalt]

Well yes but you also have to sacrifice pieces of ten blood relations

[azure bay]

that was another ritual

ghost->human

[final basalt]

Ahhh

[floral mauve]

I believe prolonged life and preserved memory are special effects of Elixir not Sacrifice

[final basalt]

Makes sense

Mr. Owl's power seems tied to the mask

[floral mauve]

thats not mask

thats Asura

gosh

[final basalt]

?

[floral mauve]

Study Samsara wheel first pls

[final basalt]

Bruh Paradise has you finding the masks

Including the Owl

[floral mauve]

I believe thats just devs make us link the guests with Eilanders

so there is no way their mask has any power

[azure bay]

Neither I'm sure if these masks were the reason for their forms. The owl mask was even burnt alongside Jacob

[floral mauve]

Hotel came out before Paradise

so I think the devs want to link them

(otherwise the guests seem to irrelevant)

[final basalt]

The masks were sacred items locked away for a reason

[azure bay]

staying inside the lore, the masks & the forms might have a common reason.

[azure bay]

rituals are always weird & irrational

[floral mauve]

traditional family ritual as mentioned by Nikolas

[final basalt]

Well yes, they're not supposed to be part of everyday life

[floral mauve]

those masks probably have more than 100 year old

must stink

[real lantern]

Hehehe

[final basalt]

Not necessarily. Real life sacred masks are typically well cared for

[azure bay]

I assume exactly these mask being designed to depict wearer's personaity

[floral mauve]

so you mean the sins later on on the guests are related to the masks?

that might be true

but Elizabeth is not narcicistic I think, unlike Ms Pheasant

[azure bay]

no, just a common reason for both things

[final basalt]

Elizabeth says "everyone shows their true colors eventually"

[floral mauve]

but Boar and Gerald is sure the same

[final basalt]

I think the process just drew out their worst qualities

[floral mauve]

what are you trying to imply

[azure bay]

e.g. being cold blooded cultists?
(but honestly, that's a good point)

[final basalt]

Well like....take the dad for example. Becoming Mr. Deer brought out more of his selfish vanity and pompous behavior.

Same with Gerald

Elizabeth becoming Ms. Pheasant restored her sight but made her blind in her own vanity

[floral mauve]

how can you observe this in Mr Deer

he just asked for a drink

[azure bay]

or she was hiding her narcissistic nature. Interpretations may go any way we want in order to create a desirable picture

[final basalt]

Experience with narrative analysis

[azure bay]

I guess, we need to learn conventional symbolism behind those animals

[floral mauve]

DECAPITATED DEER

[azure bay]

would you mind sharing it with us?

[floral mauve]

yes

[final basalt]

Oh dude I'd have to write a whole essay. Which is possible but it will take me a while.

[azure bay]

maybe there are articles we could read?

[floral mauve]

god damn, just write down the lines you observe the characteristic from

[azure bay]

yeah but 1st let's do what he says

[floral mauve]

he just said narration

which means lines

[azure bay]

no-no-no I'm just supporting your demand

however, I still wanna learn more

[final basalt]

Narrative. As in the story. Not narration.

[floral mauve]

I am sorry for my terrible English

I thought Narrative analysis means lines of the character

[final basalt]

It's ok, you're thinking of dialogue

[floral mauve]

tbh the entire Hotel is like monologue of each Character

[azure bay]

either way I'd really like to read your analysis of Mr. Deer & others

[floral mauve]

(Harvey didnt say anything, only obeying orders)

he needs a raise!

[final basalt]

But Mr. Deer comes off as arrogant due to the way he poses himself, the fact he had the audacity to come back to the Hotel and still try to obtain knowledge and power over the lake under Mr. Owl's nose (his research notes), how he dismisses you offering him the shrimp cocktail very snottily ("i'm more of a meat person..."), and the fact he can't be bothered to fix his own bloody Mary and has Harvey do it for him

[floral mauve]

but its reasonable since he paid (I suppose)

But its true that he is arrogant

Speaking of bloody mary

I think the guests knew they are gonna die

Mr Deer is a chemist

[final basalt]

I think they're so full of themselves they're oblivious to their surroundings lol

[floral mauve]

BRUH

how about Ms Pigeon

she literally made herself to die

wires and bathtubs

[final basalt]

Have you ever met a pigeon, they're dumb as rocks

[floral mauve]

not a smart combination

[floral mauve]

BRUH

[real lantern]

Lmao

[floral mauve]

I guess a depressed pheasant is reasonable

Well Boar is so high that he cant even hear the axe fall off from the frame

so yeah they are all.....reasonable to die?

[final basalt]

Too dumb and/or self-centered to live

[floral mauve]

tbh poisoning a chemist in front of him sounds so stupid

[final basalt]

I mean it's Rusty Lake this is not the weirdest thing to happen

[azure bay]

I find that ironic.

[floral mauve]

no shit

so what were we talking about

[azure bay]

I don't really know how would Deer recognize a poison in his drink (considering he didn't pay attention to how Harvey was making it)

[floral mauve]

I should make a table or powerpoint of all the theories we discussed

maybe recently

[final basalt]

Some poisons have no taste

[floral mauve]

Harvey literally used a grinder

which is completely unnecessary if Mr Deer knew the process

[final basalt]

And then distilled the grounds in the alchemy apparatus

[floral mauve]

And Harvey had a knife!

[final basalt]

Which is the fastest distillate I've ever seen happen

[floral mauve]

he could use the knife to stab him rather than collect his blood

ITS MURDER BUT WITH EXTRA STEPS

[azure bay]

talking about realism, would Harvey be able to make a cocktail without leaving Deer's room? Probably not as ingredients are expected to be stored in a cellar or smth

[final basalt]

Overall I think it's fun to speculate but also you gotta remember it's Rusty Lake, it's like Silent Hill in that it still doesn't make much sense anyway

[floral mauve]

Maybe Mr deer has a minibar in his room that contains all the alcohol

(you collected a vodka bottle)

[azure bay]

creating sense is our job :з

[floral mauve]

I am gonna go and do an exam, you guys can continue

bye

[azure bay]

I also need to prepare to mine

@final basalt if you have something to tell or ask, do it

I just may read this later

[nocturne yarrow]

Harvey literally chopped off Mr. Deer’s horn and he didn’t even flinch, I don’t think we need to worry about “realistic reactions” here.

[royal notch]

"I'm sorry sir, but i need the principal ingredient."
"I perfectly know, go ahead."

[nocturne yarrow]

Fair point, dude ordered a bloody mary so he knew what he was getting into

[royal notch]

Also, the horns shouldn't have nerves, so he probably had planned that without any fear.

[nocturne yarrow]

...do horns even have blood vessels?

[royal notch]

Do shrimps eat keys?

[azure bay]

I guess so for both :з

[royal notch]

This is Rusty Lake. 💁

I've always wondered, the red color the Lake has at night (which explain his name), is caused by some classic chemical or phisical effect or by the Lake itself, as entity?

[nocturne yarrow]

I think it could be either. The most likely chemical would be iron in the water, as that would fit the "rust" mentioned in the name. A more interesting idea is that under certain conditions, the forest at the bottom of the lake becomes the red version of it that is seen in a few of the earlier games, thus making the whole lake look red.

[azure bay]

on samsara wheel of The Cave the forest was depicted pretty accuratly

[cerulean crypt]

Algeas can make water red

[azure bay]

rusty-orange on the top layers

[cerulean crypt]

But it still can be soil and rocks with iron

But if rocks near lake have iron there are some chance of existing mine

Maybe if mine exist this is where Mr.Owl fortune comes form

[azure bay]

We have a ton of brands & businesses associated with RL. There is no reason to introduce another one with no evidence of existence

[cerulean crypt]

A ton, you mean 3 ?

[royal notch]

Even matches are marked Rusty Lake!

[cerulean crypt]

Cigars, Hotel and theatre?

[royal notch]

Matches and Pilsener.

[azure bay]

Hotel, theater, mental institutes, matches, beverages, cigars

Probably bird food

[royal notch]

I don't think, it's at New York and is marked Johnsson.

[azure bay]

Harvey had presence there. She's even on the logo

[cerulean crypt]

It can be any othee parrot

[royal notch]

Probably Harvey himself owned it.

[azure bay]

& it could be Harvey. No evidence to proof or disproof that. That's why I use the word "probably"

[royal notch]

Harvey Johnsson...

[cerulean crypt]

Harvey is quite a mysterious character

Maybe Harvey is behind it all

[azure bay]

Since Owl is responsible for her new form, I doubt that

[real lantern]

I dont think they do, considering deer have to grow that skin over the horns to make them grow, and then peel it off in that disgusting way

[final basalt]

Do you think the golden cube ending is the true ending for paradox?

(I like to think so)

[nocturne yarrow]

It’s the only one that doesn’t end in death or have Dale going back into the Paradox room- not to mention the elevator, which shows up at the end of all the other Cube Escape games where Dale is exploring memories- so I agree. It also lines up with the creation of the golden cube in Cave.

[floral mauve]

yes, ppl harvest deer horn for medical use （they grow back every year）, you can search up videos of it which will show that they do bleed

[floral mauve]

I thought algae boom makes lake green

I doubt there is a certain true ending for paradox since its depending on Dale's final decision

if he chose the golden cube he might become a chill deerheaded ruthless fuck we saw in TLS and the forest

[nocturne yarrow]

Some algae is red, so it could be algal blooms, but nothing’s really indicated algae being significant so it’s probably not that

[final basalt]

Just for fun and entirely the product of my own personal experience: Laura is literally a male soul (William) in a female body. I strongly believe the mental health issues were a result of intense gender dysphoria. Laura is a closeted trans man who is probably unaware of this due to society being shitty to trans people in the 70s.

Sauce: am a trans dude who spent decades dealing with mental health issues due to denial until finally starting transition

[covert wyvern]

Entirely plausible.

[cerulean crypt]

It is more plausible if really Laura has some memories of William

[final basalt]

Entirely possible considering the contraption she rigs up in Seasons

[covert wyvern]

I'm still a very big fan of two souls one body

[azure bay]

According to samsara, being reborn with a different gender is normal. I don't really expect it being the major reason for mental problems

[azure bay]

that also contradicts samsara

[covert wyvern]

I'm well aware :p

[cerulean crypt]

But sometimes you don't have memories of past lives

[final basalt]

Not conscious ones usually

[covert wyvern]

I was going to add "it's highly unlikely, though" at the end of that sentence

[cerulean crypt]

We don't have any proof of anyone else having memories of past life , right?

[final basalt]

Not directly but I feel it's hinted that Dale is the reincarnation of Vincent van Gogh

[cerulean crypt]

Dale is a deer

[azure bay]

Owl, Crow, Rabbit exclusively in Birthday

[final basalt]

You can get an Easter egg where you can walk into Dale's office and Paradox has the Bedroom in Arles painting

[cerulean crypt]

Dale saw that painting in murder sceene

[real lantern]

I mean its a pretty famous painting, i dont see why that would be a hint

[cerulean crypt]

Paradox is inside Dales mind

[azure bay]

another thing is that William likely wasn't really a thing for a long time. He seems being retroactively introduced into the story as a product of soft worldbuilding. So he's less likely to be that major reason

[ebon aspen]

It would connect vincent to the whole thing but dunno, very unlikely

[cerulean crypt]

But maybe someone else is Vincent incarnacion

[final basalt]

That's why it's just a theory. A Rusty Lake theory!

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe Bob

[azure bay]

I know theory about Bob being like that. Both used to be redheaded, both headshot themselves

[cerulean crypt]

Both has mental problem

[ebon aspen]

Both shot their heads, it would make sense lol

[final basalt]

Vincent was shot in the stomach irl

[cerulean crypt]

and both PRODABLY was cured in Mr.Owl Institute

[ebon aspen]

But arles seems more of a homage to vincents work than a actually important thing into the series

[final basalt]

His actual death was really sad, I recommend the film "Loving Vincent" for background on the actual guy

Yeah iirc RL is based in the Netherlands

[covert wyvern]

The studio, ye

[ebon aspen]

Its more likely that dale and bob just were normal guys that went across all the laura and mr owl stuff

[cerulean crypt]

Dale was just doing his job

[ebon aspen]

Poor detective

[final basalt]

Yeah. Those damn Vanderbooms lol

[cerulean crypt]

and then Mr.Owl takes him away

[ebon aspen]

But for sure dales family has something with the lake, so dunno a thing anymore

[azure bay]

I know some guys that want Dale being special because of being someone's grandson *cough cough* Mr. Crow

[cerulean crypt]

Mr.Crow has at least 2 sons?

HMMM

[ebon aspen]

So, i always wanted a shot about this (pun not intended): was dale grandpa really aldous?

[azure bay]

at most you mean
at least he had none

[cerulean crypt]

James?

[ebon aspen]

I mean yeah, they look similar but dude, i juat cant relate them

[cerulean crypt]

If William was James uncle and Adoulus was William brother...

[azure bay]

1. could be Aldous fair & square
2. could be Aldous under cover
3. could be his actual descendant
4. could be just an asset reuse

[final basalt]

Probably a third sibling that wasn't an alchemist

[cerulean crypt]

That will make Mr.Crow James father

[ebon aspen]

The only conection that dale have with the lake isnt even with the vanderbooms, but with the eilanders

[azure bay]

not necessarily

[cerulean crypt]

or maybe they had sister ot 3rd brother

[ebon aspen]

Nah, he would havé to be waaay older

[azure bay]

unlikely sister. In that case James would likely bare another last name

[ebon aspen]

The main question is how that gun ended in dales house

[cerulean crypt]

Well, maybe Harve take it away and sold it?

[ebon aspen]

And that yeah could be a plot by mr owl so dale would pass thru all the stuff

[azure bay]

I rather tend to think that Owl has discovered actual Dale some time near 1966. That was the date translated via snow globe

[ebon aspen]

For me is more likely that dale is a descendant from the eilanders than having smth with the vanderbooms

[azure bay]

there's a theory that makes alchemist bros Owl's nephews

[cerulean crypt]

But Why?

[ebon aspen]

So... everyones a relative?

[azure bay]

you can see things in that way. I prefer not to

[ebon aspen]

Ive been thru that kind of theory and it really make sense, but i tend to think that everyone having blood bonds just make the stories meh, so i dont like these ones

[cerulean crypt]

Dale was just a random person

Before Case 23 he had nothing to do with lake

[azure bay]

mostly because fetus from Pheasant's past life that was covered in ink & left a heart behind could be Elisabeth's son William that went corrupted & prepared his heart as a sacrifice

[ebon aspen]

For me its more likely that aldous and william were searching for alchemy stuff and went thru carolines work, but they arent relatives or acquitances

[azure bay]

the latter was confirmed by Crow on the alchemy level
"Mr. Owl waits for me"

[ebon aspen]

Its like they say: "when you look very well for smth, you sure will find it", so they look much more like alchemy enthusiats than carols relatives or disciples

[azure bay]

I expect them being at least helped by Owl

at most directly sponsored

[cerulean crypt]

Or Owl just paid them to recreate elixir

[ebon aspen]

Yeah, mr owl sure is moving the ropes behind the stage, for him is just a quest in order to find a "lord of the lake"

[azure bay]

although that contradicts Owl & Crow not having elixir in The Cave

[cerulean crypt]

Dale was closest to become what Owl is looking for?

[azure bay]

Dale was seemingly called a chosen one

[ebon aspen]

I dunno how much mr crow knows about owls plans, but i have the feeling that someday he will find the actual truth behind owls moves and rebel against him
I mean, sometimes their goals seem to differ

[azure bay]

differ in what way?

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe Mr.Crow plays different game than Owl

[azure bay]

what's the evidence?

[cerulean crypt]

Nothging

[ebon aspen]

Mr owl is very focused and calm, but aldous just seem to be a way more childish person (hes much more a chaos agent for me than someone that is working for "controlling" the lake)

[azure bay]

I see Crow just doing some of the most important of dirty jobs

[ebon aspen]

I wouldnt say he WILL rebel against owl or smth, but his actions arent on the same line from owls

[azure bay]

I don't quite understand what you are referring to

[ebon aspen]

Harvey almost ended up dead in the mill bc aldous wasnt careful

[cerulean crypt]

And Adoulus wife wasn't so lucky...

[ebon aspen]

I dunno how to explain, but for me mr crow doesnt mind if the lake stuff gets stopped or continue, hes just a pawn and thats it

[cerulean crypt]

Also Submarine ended up destriyed

[azure bay]

That was a plot moving mistake that also did probably hurt Aldous himself

[cerulean crypt]

when Adoulus piloted it

[ebon aspen]

Not that aldous is a dumb person, but not giving a shit about consequences make him a dangerous person, even if he doesnt want to be one

[azure bay]

in The Cave Crow & Owl seem as close as old friends that shared both happiness & sorrows

[real lantern]

I know im kinda late to the party (as usual) but i think that mr.owl simply hinted them that they may be able to create an elixir near the lake

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe Mr.Crow has concentracion troble?

[ebon aspen]

Oh yeah, they are very close, but i think crow have smth up his sleeve that will cause a real trouble

[real lantern]

Maybe they use the lake's power to make their alchemy stronger

[azure bay]

& I bet on his loyalty

[ebon aspen]

Bc aldous goal always was being immortal

[cerulean crypt]

When his brother dies twice in meantime

[real lantern]

Yeah, as an alchemist his goal would have probably been eternal life

[ebon aspen]

Ive seen many stories and dude, i can say that mr crow isnt someone i would like to have as my friend XD

[azure bay]

he helps him at least once

[ebon aspen]

He is THE person to cause some trouble

[cerulean crypt]

Mr.Crow... Troubemaker alchemist

[azure bay]

he has done a ton of good & important job

[ebon aspen]

I think that harvey already fills the "loyal helper with good intentions" role

[azure bay]

Harvey is more like a paw then Crow tho

[ebon aspen]

We need a big villain

[cerulean crypt]

Harvey is a criminal

[high talon]

dont you mean talon?

[cerulean crypt]

Harvey commited several murders

[high talon]

last time i checked birds dont have paws..XD

[azure bay]

Why not the lake itself that seems to be the root cause of everything?

[cerulean crypt]

One on the diplomat

[ebon aspen]

Oh yeah, sometimes i feel a lack of will in harvey, but maybe hes growing his thoughts stronger too, just wont cause any real trouble like the one i think crow will cause someday

And i pinged the wrong message

[ebon aspen]

I just dont like the idea of a force of nature being a main villain, maybe its just a bad opinion for the series but the lake "motivation" is sacrifice hunger

It makes sense, but i really dont like the idea

[cerulean crypt]

There is monster in the lake...

[ebon aspen]

Oh nessie...

[azure bay]

its purpose outside the lore seems to be just a source of mysterious vibes. Inside the lore there might be none

[royal notch]

If there must be a villain, i'm sure it will be Albert... The devs seems truly interested in him, so i wouldn't be surprised. Some of my friends are even SURE that there will be an epic fight between and , like in anime.

[cerulean crypt]

Albert is dead

He can't fight

[royal notch]

What Is the new game coming...?

[cerulean crypt]

WDYM?

[royal notch]

The Past Whitin will be about Albert...

[high talon]

it comes when it comes

[royal notch]

He will be back...

[real lantern]

I think he meant "what is the new game about" haha

[high talon]

oh mfglfg shit i misread again damn it

i hate when i see thing A written down but its actually thing B

[royal notch]

My fault, i wrote bad!

[high talon]

no no its okay my brain is just funny sometimes

[ebon aspen]

Albert sure is a fricking good character, but unless the devs gift us with the biggest plot twist of all time, he is sadly dead
Tpw will prolly go deeper into his relationships and stuff, but nothing like "oh boi it was albert all along"

[azure bay]

Albert is alive in one form or another. He just may be Albert no more

[wheat geyser]

i tought tpw will be set in the past since rose appeares too

[ebon aspen]

It seems to take place in both past (as rose) and present (as dale or one of the birds)

This channel will go crazy when tpw comes out XD

[terse magnet]

Yes

[broken rune]

Yeah Albert is probably the most hated and lovely character ever made

[gray epoch]

Does anyone know if the 10,000 BC game is still in development? Don't know if this is the server to ask or #🩸｜general-chat

[covert wyvern]

#🩸｜general-chat would be the better place 😉 this would be the channel to discuss the implications of the game, but as far as we know it's not happening?

[gray epoch]

Thank youuu, I'll ask there too then

[covert wyvern]

sure thing o/

[azure bay]

@gray epoch I think that Dale's past is the thing that defines his future but not vise versa

[gray epoch]

So, it's more so that the past adds to the future, rather than there be a predestinated fate criteria?

[azure bay]

it's complicated

we see that fortune telling is a thing

however, Dale seems to have a choice in Paradox

[gray epoch]

True, but isn't he kind of incapacitated and disillusioned?

Something I find interesting is the dialogue he gives Bob in "The White Door"

I feel like it gives us our biggest view into his current personal goals

It's in the flashback of Dream 4, I think, where Bob is about to shoot himself. Dale's at the bar and says, "Don't worry, I'll find her."

So, I think he does have good intentions deep down and just like Case 23 suggested, he's invested because of solving the mystery.

[azure bay]

I don't really get your message. How exactly would Dale's intentions affect the final outcome?

[gray epoch]

Oh, I was just responding to your message about him having a choice in Paradox

I feel like his choices are directed towards that intention, but others seem murkier and controlled, facilitated by the actions of Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl

We see him legit strapped to a chair and hooked up to a memory alteration device so I'm sure that's definitely coercion and not voluntary

[azure bay]

I tend to think that Paradox is a mind palace different parts of which were created by Owl, by the lake & by Dale himself

so I suppose Dale's choice not to be completely dictated by his mentor

[gray epoch]

Yeah, it's interesting. I definitely agree on the mind palace and that it's present in other games, in different variations as well

But, I personally feel that the fact that he is strapped to that machine is more of a forced situation, he wasn't aware of. When he's experiencing his memories, he seems confused and lost. You could attribute that to just a normal reaction to being thrown in the past, but he definitely feels super lost to me. A thing that cements this theory for me of not completely choosing to enter his mind palace too, is that we see him escape a corrupted soul right before those events in Case 23.

[azure bay]

what are your evidence of sending Dale to the past being a part of his dream close to the machine?

[gray epoch]

Wait, could you rephrase that? Sorry

[azure bay]

if I understand ya correctly, Birthday & Theatre are also parts of Paradox dream, aren't they?

[gray epoch]

Oh yeah, that's my belief.

Similar to Seasons being the mind illusion for Laura.

[azure bay]

what evidence do you have especially for these 2 CE games?

[gray epoch]

Ok, so I can think of a few that support my theory.

One is that in Theatre, Dale looks in the mirror and becomes corrupted for a moment. Then, he's visibly confused and remarks on it.

In the machine he's hooked up to, you can see him flicker between being corrupted and not corrupted.

In both games, they're introduced with him in an elevator, surrounded by cubes. Which place in the games is associated with multiple cubes floating around? The Lake itself. It's clearly shown in Rusty Lake Paradise, when Jakob sees that room as he ascends to the surface of the lake, surrounded by cubes

Also, this might just be a stretch, but also, the theatre and birthday take place in 4 sided boxes. You could argue this is simply the aesthetic for the games, but I find it suspicious that Dale's childhood home has no visible doorways to other rooms like bedrooms.

So it's like they're contained twistable versions of the memories that Dale experienced.

[azure bay]

I'm pretty sure that Dale's dream has finished with Paradox. Notably, in the elevator some time after The Cave. He was still unconscious even while standing & holding the cube. So I expect him seeing the same events but from Paradox perspective (e.g. ch 2 secret ending).

I separate Birthday & Theatre from Paradox for several reasons:

1. the elevator, the big white cube & other cubes floating around the lake (2 of which contain Birthday & Theatre) are real (the former was seen in the prophecy from Hotel & the rest in Paradise, as you mentioned it)
2. while being connected to the machine Dale was flickering only on the lever being pulled. However, he started doing so on his own only after leaving the machine. Then he enters the elevator & goes up. So I assume that the scene of him still going up & flickering on his own takes place after The Cave.

Credibility of Birthday & Theatre is a completely different topic tho. The absence of doors & rooms is not an indicator of events being real or not. I presume, Case 23 seems pretty real to all of us while there is not a single door in the office nor in the chapel & Arles being confirmed as a memory contains both doors & an extra room.

& even if they are not real, they don't have to be a product of the machine

[azure bay]

Owl's alterations may have a different origin

[gray epoch]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Personally, that's just the way I see it because it's what makes the most logical sense to me.

[azure bay]

ok, continuing with logic

Dale upon going down the lake told us that he did not feel his body & his memories were scattered around the lake

he also repeats so on his way up

so the lake extracts memories

(I assume temporarily)

in the Hotel ending guests were still connected to their cubes

they heck seemed to just be these cubes

in The Cave their memories were floating too as the lake probably extracted them as well

& Owl had to affect them in order to control the owners

because the lake didn't break the bond between them

So It's logical for Owl to tinker with Dale's memories as well. On his way back to the cave that is

[gray epoch]

Yeah, and in The White Door, people seem to be farmed for their memories too

But certain characters, like Dale and Bob, hold more significance so they're handled better

[floral mauve]

btw

one interesting approach I thought

the Deer headed Dale in TWD might be the Dale that has already made the choice with the Golden cube

Theoretically he is an Asura by that time.....

I might be delusional since the timeline doesnt....really match

(Maybe Bob accidentally saw the future of Dale in TLS?)

That also means the true timeline is the one Dale with the Golden cube to proceed his elevator journey

[ebon aspen]

I still hope theres only one timeline/dimension and everything will make sense at the end, but it seems that there are many different dimensions, so the timeline holes maybe arent actual holes

how i hate time travel oh man

But considering we have a game called "paradox" it wouldnt be a surprise anyway

[royal notch]

I always tried to consider one timeline (permetting change of past), but in this way Seasons become a big problem.

[ebon aspen]

I always tried to think the "time travels" only being memory revisiting and supression, it would make sense if that theory that several games take place in ppls minds is the real deal
But i dont like the "oh it was only a dream" stuff so i dunno what to think anymore

[royal notch]

I think that time travel is possible, with the blue cubes.

But with some conditions:

1. the memory must be a bad one and must have a precise image in it of the time it was during that memory;
2. the time travel bring you back ONLY TO THAT MEMORY, not in every time you want.

[ebon aspen]

I guess you can revisit good memories considering we have the white cubes, but the visits are majorly fone with the black ones bc you wouldnt want to change good memories (unless they wanted more traumas they already have)

What i think is that they are trying to reach memories older enough so they can end the lake stuff from the start (it would connect that mammoth thing), but for now its a really farfetched thought, i only cant see any other reason for all this fun with cubes

[royal notch]

What mammoth thing...?

[real lantern]

I just cant agree with the time travel theorys, for me, the blue cubes can only change memories, as we clearly see in birthday, and thats it, laura simply use a "blue cube like" "potion" that had the same effect

[real lantern]

One day the devs posted a "progress timeline" and in that timeline there was a game that was planned, and the image representing it was a mamoth in the lake with the year "30000BC" or something like that

[royal notch]

Where?

[real lantern]

On twitter? On the discord? I cant actualy remember

[royal notch]

Twitter, because there hasn't been nothing similar here. Now i'm a bit scared. 😂

[real lantern]

It was a while ago

[royal notch]

I don't use many social media. Only YouTube and Discord.

[azure bay]

Dale is teased to become deva, not asura

[floral mauve]

But in TLS we saw hm as....Asura?

However, we have never see what a deva looks like

so he might be.....

[azure bay]

in mythology, devas & asuras have much in common

[floral mauve]

deva is like god whereas Asura is semigod

[azure bay]

the difference is in their abilities & attitude

[floral mauve]

maybe

But there is one thing we can confirm which is that Mr Owl wants Dale to be deva

after his elevator trip in Hotel

[azure bay]

it could be foretold by Caroline

The deer occupies usual deva's segment of her Wheel

[gaunt vortex]

I had this little theory that if you were to create a white cube using the Memory Extractor, but then took the person out of the machine, they’d be depressed.

(idk)

[azure bay]

theories are meant to be based on facts. otherwise they are assumptions

no offence

[gaunt vortex]

No worries! I thought this one was kinda confusing myself 😅

[cerulean crypt]

Well... Bob suffers mental problems after memory extraction in Theatre

[azure bay]

bear in mind that the reality of Theatre game is debatable

[cerulean crypt]

Yes, but Bob has no memories

That might be also a side efect of shot

But bartender looks really simmal to man that already extracted some memories

[azure bay]

Bob's appearance in Case 23 is also canon & he was still bearing at least some memories back then

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe he didn't last it all?

But inside his mind ,in lost soul bar, he tells that he not remember who he is

But wait... The Lost soul is after the theatre, but Bob remember the Police stacion

[azure bay]

at 1st I thought it was his flashbackforward. However as I paid a closer attention to his words I realized that he remembers it in TWD

his narration is presented in past tense

except for that episode

"I remember him"

not "I remembered him"

[cerulean crypt]

So the present Bob visiting his past memories discoved the memory of Police Station?

[azure bay]

pretty much yes

[cerulean crypt]

Makes sense

[floral mauve]

Wait, so from Bob's case, we learned that memories can be regenerated by the brain even after the extraction?

(Infinite cube exploit)

[azure bay]

We don't really know what was happening there

[floral mauve]

apparently, he got awaken again according to his experience in TWD

awaken by recalling his memories

[azure bay]

The machine could just inject back previously extracted memories

[floral mauve]

?

wtf

does that mean you can just add memories to another person's brain?

how can you inject memories

thats not really RL?

[azure bay]

I have no idea. I'm just doing guesses. We all do that rn

[floral mauve]

ok

because you basically made memories as a solid matter

which is not likely to be injected back

[floral mauve]

cubes

[ivory girder]

after theatre, he still lives right?, and living = making memories so that's why there're cubes in case 23?

[azure bay]

Why not?

[floral mauve]

states of matter?

[floral mauve]

maybe

[royal notch]

You could Say the same about extraction, then.

[azure bay]

If we only knew his perception at the moment

[floral mauve]

extraction is easier since you just solidify memories

humans are good at destruction rather than fix things

[azure bay]

Memories being solid inside cubes is just another assumption

[floral mauve]

ah

big brain time

[azure bay]

Cubes seem being just containers

[royal notch]

Where are evidences that cubes can't become back in that Essence?

[floral mauve]

we have never seen it

duh

we usually take them out of a person rather than put it back

*insert cubes like coins

[azure bay]

I think we will. Dale's memories are currently extracted. I expect them to whoop back as soon as he leaves the water

[royal notch]

We can't exclude that anyway.

[floral mauve]

I mean we never seen the memory cubes got inserted in another person's brain as memories

[azure bay]

Bob could be the very first case

[floral mauve]

you cant restore the water after you spill it

[azure bay]

Analogies are bad for describing the world

You can recollect this water with sponge

[floral mauve]

not completely

its just a metaphor

back to the topic

if you inject cubes into another person

thats a bit fucked up

Laura intensifies

[royal notch]

But why??

[azure bay]

As far as I can see there's still a link between memories & the soul

[floral mauve]

you get memories that doesnt belong to you

might cause depression

might need mental health advice from Mr Crow

[azure bay]

In what way exactly?

[floral mauve]

idk just guessing

your brain will be fucked

with messy memories

like Dale in paradox

[azure bay]

What's wrong with that?

[floral mauve]

identity issues perhaps

just imagine Laura suddenly regained her memories as William

[azure bay]

You've mentioned Paradox. What's about it?

[floral mauve]

that will be much more complicated

[floral mauve]

just a reference to Dale's messy memory

[azure bay]

What was messy there?

[floral mauve]

you remember we played a minigame of sorting out his memories?

like 9 rooms changing positions

[azure bay]

And?

[floral mauve]

it will be similar

a messy brain

[azure bay]

That wasn't exactly messy

[floral mauve]

well it will be messier if you inject other ppls' memories

?

[azure bay]

My message wasn't sent

Nvm

I assume that remembering past lives is not sudden

You at least need to actively work for that

[floral mauve]

but we are talking about injecting cubes

it will make the universe much more complicated

[azure bay]

Why would injected cube be on the surface?

[floral mauve]

However, I doubt this would happen since in RL, memories are bounded with souls

[azure bay]

I tend to think the same

[floral mauve]

so if you inject cubes, thats like inserting other ppls souls

in one body

which is too fucked up

[azure bay]

I guess it would be more about seeing events just from a different perspective.

[royal notch]

But if the injected memories are of the same possessor...

[azure bay]

Everything's going to be ok, so we discuss otherwise

Cause the problems appear only then

[royal notch]

👍

[floral mauve]

I doubt the memories would just be like puzzle pieces

just like I said

[royal notch]

What do you mean...?

[floral mauve]

you cant just put back the extracted memories

thats too easy

we are not USB plugs

[royal notch]

Why not?

[azure bay]

Extracting them is not easy either

[floral mauve]

depends, I see them easy

you just use the mill

as massacre crime scene

[azure bay]

There was a machine used

[floral mauve]

yes

[azure bay]

Of unknown technology

[floral mauve]

yes

well not a big deal for Mr Owl I believe

so its easy for them

(not for us to recreate it obviously)

[azure bay]

Why wouldn't it be easy to do contrary?

For Owl that is

[floral mauve]

well Bob didnt have to go through TWD then

[royal notch]

I mean, extracting them and put them back wouldn't make any sense. There must be something in the middle, probably a modification.

[floral mauve]

yep

big brain time

[azure bay]

We may try guessing what it was

[floral mauve]

probably the matter?

the cube shape?

its like condensed?

[azure bay]

The fact is that Bob was important as long as his memories contained Laura

[floral mauve]

(for fast delivery?)

[azure bay]

Without her "his mind turns useless"

[floral mauve]

apparently Mr Owl wants his memories back in TWD right?

during his treatment

[azure bay]

I guess so

[floral mauve]

therefore, we learned that Mr Owl cant just put the cubes back

since they extracted those in theatre

[azure bay]

If they are extracted then*

[floral mauve]

oof

[azure bay]

I've got a little idea

But I think it's misleading

Could Bob's memories be used in Theatre for a play?

[floral mauve]

BRUH

[azure bay]

I guess not really

[floral mauve]

But at what cost? EVERYTHING

[azure bay]

Ok

[floral mauve]

imagine Bob is just like a used tool

abandoned by Mr Owl

randomly dumped

[azure bay]

Abandoned?

[floral mauve]

After theatre

[azure bay]

I believe he wasn't. He could be used to bring Dale a cube

[floral mauve]

but thats too...harsh?

if the only use of Bob is just delivering a cube

thats sad

[azure bay]

That could be just another use of him. Not primary one

Ok

[floral mauve]

(his entire role looks so pathetic in all of the perspectives)

a living deliver dude

[azure bay]

His primary role in TWD seems important

[floral mauve]

of memories

[azure bay]

I just don't understand it yet

[floral mauve]

I think Mr Owl regretted the extraction in the teatre

thats why he wants Bob to recall it back

since he has a more important use of it

[azure bay]

He specifically needed Laura to be present in his head

[floral mauve]

more important than teaching Dale a lesson

[azure bay]

Let's return back to theatre & start reviewing different possibilities

For the sstart, let's assume that someone actually did extract Bob's memories back then

What's next?

[floral mauve]

I dont know the point of the seasons play

just to let Dale know Laura is murdered?

that shit literally costs 4 white cubes and 1 black cube

that can feed the lake for at least 1 month I believe

[azure bay]

It was in order to present human realm of samsara & probably further inspect Bob's relationship with her

[azure bay]

Let's not touch Dale's return to the theatre for a while

All the plays but the 1st one may not exist

[floral mauve]

you mean except the first one?

[royal notch]

Yes.

[azure bay]

Lady of the lake was real

[floral mauve]

true

[azure bay]

At least the opera part

[floral mauve]

emmmm interesting since Bob shot himself in the first scene

[azure bay]

Back to the topic

Let's assume that Bob's memories were extracted

What could be the reasons?

[floral mauve]

well probably the regular use

Lake goes brrrrrr

[azure bay]

?

[floral mauve]

drop it in the lake

Amazon delivery to RL

then feed it

[azure bay]

Alright

What's next?

[floral mauve]

next?

[azure bay]

We still have Bob

[floral mauve]

Bob is on the street

traumatized with lack of memories

Mr Owl then realsied: ah shit I fucked up, he got important shit in his memory! I gotta fix this

then TWD

[azure bay]

Not exactly. That would seem so if we ignore half a year time span between Theatre & TWD + Case 23 scene

[floral mauve]

oh

I hate specific timelines

I am bad at it

[azure bay]

You're lucky to have me here :p

[floral mauve]

emmmm maybe he is jobless, depressed, lost his target

no life goal

unemployed

then police got him

False Accusation

[azure bay]

He also had no memories

[floral mauve]

thats why this is false

he is a walking meat

[azure bay]

That's not my message. He'd probably call TWD right away

[floral mauve]

well he passed out in the street

I am super confused

where the fuck DID HE GO AFTER THE THEATRE

[azure bay]

I have 2 options

But 1st I'd like you to come up with one of your own

[floral mauve]

I believe white door game is the true timeline as a reference target

so theatre is just his......

idk

[azure bay]

Was the shot real?

[floral mauve]

i dont think so

he is high as f

[azure bay]

Why?

[floral mauve]

only if the CS transformation can cure the body

[azure bay]

Or hospital

Or any other type of magic

?

[floral mauve]

well a damn bullet went through the head

not as if Mr Crow is selling toy guns

it must be surreal

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe shot wasn't lethal?

[azure bay]

Surviving this kind of shots is not supernatural

[royal notch]

But the possibility Is really low.

[cerulean crypt]

But it is possible

[azure bay]

We have Mr. Owl who had plans concerning Bob

90% risk would be a mockery of his supposed intelegence

How likely is Mr. Crow to act against Owl's will?

[cerulean crypt]

It seems like he always did what Mr.Owl says, but sometimies he had accidents

[azure bay]

Then the shot is likely to be planned through in one way or another

[royal notch]

Assuming that it happened.

[azure bay]

Then he would require instant healing of sorts

Or time suspention

[cerulean crypt]

Or special ammunicion?

[azure bay]

Are there other examples of special objects?

[cerulean crypt]

WDYM?

[azure bay]

Ok then

[azure bay]

In what way special?

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe shot was really fired, but no bullet come out of barrel

[covert wyvern]

shooting blanks is possible, but there would be a lack of head trauma.

[cerulean crypt]

A gases?

[azure bay]

Head trauma is not the only possible way of losing memories in this universe

[covert wyvern]

correct.

[azure bay]

Where does the hole come from?

[covert wyvern]

that's my point here ^

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe there was no hole...

[covert wyvern]

you could argue the gun was loaded wit a less-lethal rubber round, but that wouldn't penetrate, only bruise.

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe something powerful enought to break the bone but not enounght to penetrate it

[azure bay]

We are effectively back to "illusion shot" theory, aren't we?

[covert wyvern]

again, a rubber bullet could have that sort of impact.

[azure bay]

As long as noone questions Crow's allegiance here, we have only 2 options

1. the shot was real (plus magic healing)
2. the shit wasn't real

[cerulean crypt]

True

[azure bay]

Does 2 persons remebering the shot make it real?

[royal notch]

No.

[cerulean crypt]

But Dale memory was clearly faken in many ways

Maybe that he remember the shot also was faken

[azure bay]

would Bob's ones be in this case?

[cerulean crypt]

But why Mr.Crow will fake menory of shot for Dale

[royal notch]

If his memories have been reinjected, probably yes.

The problem is why.

[azure bay]

I can imagine only Dream 6 being mildly altered

I guess Owl was against changing memories that feature Laura

[cerulean crypt]

Didn't he make it clear in mail to Sarah

[azure bay]

Theatre wasn't exaclty about Laura, honestly

[cerulean crypt]

It was just Bob who decided that he has nothing better to do than get drunk

[azure bay]

I wonder

In what way did TWD choose memories to focus on?

[ebon aspen]

Bob was related to laura, so ig mr owl was trying to learn more about her (not to mention bob corrupted himself and stuff, so owl could be doing some research on him too)
The other patients could be either only lab rats or some random ppl somehow connected to the lake

[azure bay]

Why not to learn by just watching the memories?

Why is Bob required in person?

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe they don' have his memories

[azure bay]

Why not extracting them?

[ebon aspen]

Well, mr crow kinda messed things up at the mill, so maybe owl wanted a double check into some stuff
And bob could be just a lab rat as well, i would say he was perfect for tests with memories considering all the madness he went thru

[azure bay]

Would you mind presenting more global picture of Bob's story then?

Considering all you said

[ebon aspen]

He was lauras bf (owl could learn more about her) and corrupted himself (owl could learn more about corruption)
The part i get confused about all these "mr owl memory adventures" is when smth is real and when its not (it seems a lot of stuff takes place only in ppls minds, so dunno)
Bob met dale at the theatre, but considering it wasnt a real thing, it means they were sharing a memory? Or was it real and they just happened to stumble on each other once again in the weirdest possible place?

[next urchin]

place

[ebon aspen]

Everything could be just a metaphor for battling traumas and stuff, or some really crazy things happened irl

[next urchin]

irl

[azure bay]

I don't think Owl would create completely false memories. Just alter already existing ones

[next urchin]

ones

[azure bay]

So I expect Theatre being real location (considering Rabbit, Pheasant, & poster in Birthday), The lady of the lake being a real songstress (considering her poster & radio broadcast in TWD) & Bob actually encountering Dale there

[next urchin]

there

[azure bay]

@ebon aspen you've been mentioning Bob's corruption. Which one were you referring to?

[next urchin]

to

[covert wyvern]

@next urchin are you alright? you seem to be posting in one word posts!

It'd be better if you'd talk full sentences ;-;

[next urchin]

okay i was just wondering what a sentence made of your last words would look like

[covert wyvern]

I'm sorry but this isn't the place to try that!

[next urchin]

"place irl ones there to posts"

i understand

[ebon aspen]

The one that happened at the police station, shown in case 23 and twd
As i said, i dunno whats real and what just happend on ppls minds or is a metaphor

[azure bay]

Something feels off. Using Bob for learning about Laura & for studying CS at the same time feels pointless. I'd rather separate these 2 goals in time

At least if both were according to the original plan

[ebon aspen]

Yeah, thats why i told those are only possibilities, it could be that mr owl had smth very different in mind when taking bob into twd that we dont even imagine

[royal notch]

Personally, i put that game aside, hoping for explaination in other games. Maybe the game itself was not only for show other misteries, but maybe for closing happily Bob's depression.

[ebon aspen]

tbh putting twd aside is a thing i cant do, its a game full of important stuff

but bigger the number of games we have to analyze, more info and possible confusing stuff we will have to

when tpw comes out our brains will explode

[floral mauve]

so are we sure that Bob got his memories extracted in the Theatre?

My theory is that Mr Owl extracted Bob's memories in cube forms, but then Mr Owl regretted since Bob's memories have a better use in his head that contains Laura, which is the reason why Mr Owl wants Bob to regain all his memories back in TWD. Furthermore, this also proved that you cant just inject back the memories you have previously extracted in cubes

[nocturne yarrow]

I’m not sure how this plays into it, but what TWD seems to be showing is his memories being removed, the “bad feelings” being extracted from them (probably in the form of a black cube), and then returned as shown by color returning to his life. Point is, only the negative stigma of his memories was extracted, not the memories themselves.

As for why, I have no idea.

[floral mauve]

not necessarily the bad ones

I think its both

just like in theatre

both white and black cubes are extracted

For example, in the last dream of TWD, thats a good memory I believe

[azure bay]

The turning point in Bob's state was recalling everything including a long-forgotten lesson

[floral mauve]

Recently I have replayed Seasons

I realised something

Are we all agree that from spring to Fall is real

and Winter is not necessarily real

[floral mauve]

(since Laura is still dead)

Therefore, she didnt change the past according to the current timeline

[covert wyvern]

yes Seasons' winter would support my concept of multipe timelines

[floral mauve]

which also indicates that Laura has killed Harvey

[floral mauve]

HARVEY IS DEAD

thats my observation

since she didnt change the past

Although is there any chance of Harvey surviving after been sliced open?

However, thats contradictive

since we saw Harvey in the Mill

in 1972

(I am super confused)

Help

[covert wyvern]

No idea what to tell you, lol.

[floral mauve]

(Is there any chance of 2 parrot?)

[terse magnet]

Harvey army

[floral mauve]

Both named Harvey

maybe he survived after been sliced open

we already saw Bob survived after he shot himself

[floral mauve]

(BUT HOW DID HE ESCAPE FROM THE LOCKED CAGE)

Harvey Escape: Seasons

[azure bay]

The way she escaped is not that important

How is she alive is more interesting

Some tend to decanonise Seasons events

I tend to put everything in different timelines

[floral mauve]

perhaps the Past is changed or half changed?

[azure bay]

If Laura corrupted in 1972 arriving to 1971 is a time travel of sorts then her changes would likely create a different timeline

At least according to one of the popular time travel theories in fiction

[floral mauve]

the thing is

two timeline overlaped

If Harvey survived, the woman also survived

but she didnt

[azure bay]

Not exactly. It's just one of the requirements

[floral mauve]

(perhaps the points of seasons is not...to revive her immediately?)

[real lantern]

I realy dont like thinking of time travel, i like to think that the blue cubes and the blue cube like, potion that laura made can only change memories, but then again... i doesnt matter what i like or dont lmao

[azure bay]

The points of seasons (in my interpretation) is about carefully creating the right timeline

[real lantern]

And i think that some stuff from seasons was retconned because of this comment

[floral mauve]

1. She is not Caroline and she doesnt know the cubes
2. The presence of blue cubes is questionable

[azure bay]

Laura could learn about cubes during that decade

[floral mauve]

I mean the function of the blue cubes

[real lantern]

1. There are images of cubes on the board on the last season
2. We see blue cubes on said board

[floral mauve]

However, she is already died

in Winter

[azure bay]

What's your general message here?

[floral mauve]

If she knows about cubes, or investigated them, she would write about them before fall

(Nevertheless, she might investigate them in CS form???)

Since William did more or less the same thing

[azure bay]

That's my guess

[floral mauve]

but did she succeed.....

[real lantern]

It could have been her corrupted soul?

[floral mauve]

I am really confused

about Harvey

If we split it in timelines, the current timeline should have the corpse of the woman and dead Harvey

However, the fall of killing Harvey might also be a form of surreal performance of RL

[real lantern]

My brain is just mush, im trying to say something that makes sense in my head but i just cant put it into words

[floral mauve]

Is that all you want say after 5 minutes typing

[azure bay]

I see Seasons as a bunch of timelines created on a go.

1. Original one. Laura dies, Harvey lives, Dale's fate is unknown
2. Timeline of fall 1971. Laura dies. Her corrupted counterpart arrives from thr e future & kills Harvey. Dale's fate is unknown.
3. Dale's timeline. Laura's CS arrives to spring 1964, saves Harvey, plants cactus. Both are seen afterwards. Coinsidentally, Dale is confirmed to become enlightened in this timeline.
4. Laura's timeline. Laura finishes her changes & creates her fate. Dale's fate is unknown

[floral mauve]

Wait, I just realised that the Fall 1971 may not be real neither

since Laura is died then

[azure bay]

Why couldn't she be corrupted?

[floral mauve]

I mean she didnt change the past

the current timeline

We use result to interpret the past

so Harvey is not killed in fall since it didnt happen

maybe she got transferred later

[azure bay]

Don't really get your message

[floral mauve]

Maybe Harvey got transferred after Laura dead

[royal notch]

I replayed the Cave because Is my favourite of the collection, and then i realized something strange. Who was the possessor of the blue cube?

[ebon aspen]

considering the memories shown, those cubes are from laura (we see a blue cube in seasons too iirc)

and mr crow was retrieving memories from the lake, so i suppose... the lake itself was the possessor

[broken rune]

Anything can happen to the lake

Rusty lake is cursed

[astral frost]

What's more, in the book (in Cave) we can see the Blue Cube coming from "outside": it isn't related to Dale or Laura

[royal notch]

Exactly! That's the fact that gave me to think!

But the most misterious part is that, even not being from Laura, that cube remember a time ON LAURA'S CLOCK, IN HER HOUSE!

[astral frost]

So is it a memory?

Or just a sort of tool?

[astral frost]

Cause someone could simply say "it shows the clock because it is related to time, to the past and to its changes"

In fact, right now it doesn't look like a memory

It's more like a catalyst

[floral mauve]

Thats actually a valid point

why the hell would Lake wants blue cube

(maybe the devs want to have a complete cube display collection?)

[royal notch]

I think the Lake doesn't care about cube's tipology, he just want memories, and that's why i tend to think that also blue cubes are memories.

[astral frost]

So why should the blue cube have that role?

Why can you change your past only through that one?

Normal cubes are just "photos of your past", which you can live again

[floral mauve]

maybe the lake doesnt absorb blue cube?

(I mean you can still throw trash in the lake)

[royal notch]

I think that blue cubes are bad memories with a precise time reference in it!

[floral mauve]

emmmmmm?

[royal notch]

I don't think that the enlighteneds would permit that...

[floral mauve]

well go back in time and doesnt specify the time is misleading