🤔｜theories

[floral mauve]

just flying fish

not god anymore

[hidden ledge]

the fish god is lobster donkey

[floral mauve]

FLYING FISHHHH

sneak in your house

[royal notch]

True.

[cerulean crypt]

Lobster donkey is monster in lake

[floral mauve]

and beat yo as

but he knows how to fish

[cerulean crypt]

No if you got trap

[floral mauve]

when he was little

[floral mauve]

the only weakness is the delicious fly

Flying fishhhh

[hidden ledge]

how do fish go outside of the water to the mouse traps? they probably dig a tunel

[floral mauve]

flying

like in Theatre

probably smash himself through the window

[hidden ledge]

in my headcanon its with a tunel because it makes them more disturbing

[floral mauve]

itself*

[royal notch]

Am i the only one who thinks that Bob Is the most difficult pawn of the lore?

[azure bay]

Rabbit could also be the one

[hidden ledge]

bro 15 games later and still no idea what happened to laura lol

[azure bay]

& the background of Paradise is hard to comprehend

[floral mauve]

probably died

[hidden ledge]

she is the most alive dead person ever

[royal notch]

I ignore him, i prefer thinking that the massacre wasn't premedited.

[azure bay]

I used to ignore Bob's shot like that

before TWD

[floral mauve]

climb up wall and kill the grandma

[royal notch]

Me toooooo!

[hidden ledge]

poor gma she was fucked up probably tho

[floral mauve]

the fish magic caused her death

I tried to close her cupboard

didnt work

she ATE THE FISH

[royal notch]

In that dream, i was chilled out thinking that the shot happened only in Dale's memory! Then Aldous got the pistol, and i was like: -What the NOOOO DON'T!!

[cerulean crypt]

She killed her great great umcle(or father,) wife

[floral mauve]

Best deal ever

Mr Crow can sell that pistol all over again

to the next person

[cerulean crypt]

Bob also did that

[floral mauve]

if you get what am I saying

[floral mauve]

where? in TWD?

[royal notch]

I got a little hope when he said:- I esitated...-, but nothing.

[cerulean crypt]

Yes

[floral mauve]

probably NYC fish doesnt do the thing

[azure bay]

or the fish is just not a canonical choice of Bob :з

[royal notch]

🍕

[floral mauve]

btw which one we saw is the true ending of TWD

Sarah one or the last dream one

[azure bay]

could be both

[floral mauve]

I mean the last dream is so beautful that I almost cry

However, Sarah is probably the one

since she saw Bob is still on the bed as CS

[azure bay]

the achievement is called "The Alternative"

[floral mauve]

The last dream literally made me believe that Mr Owl really wants to bring colour back to Bob's life

[azure bay]

it could mean that the events are alternative

for example, in case of therapy not working

or Sarah being too impatient

[floral mauve]

bruh

so what was the intention of Mr Owl

I mean tbh Bob is pointless to him since he has used Bob already

to drain him to the last drop?

[royal notch]

That's the point, i can't understand the role of Bob!

[azure bay]

wdym

[floral mauve]

or unlikely...compensate Bob

[floral mauve]

Mr Owl wants to use Bob more times till he is unable to do anything else

[azure bay]

for some reason, Bob's memories of Laura were crucial. I expect them being somehow required for Dale's ritual.

[floral mauve]

which is kinda fked up

[royal notch]

Again?

[floral mauve]

but then what does the last dream reveal

[azure bay]

for who?

[floral mauve]

for us

the audience

did Bob get cured of him mental damage

and brought colour back to his life

since he remembered everything

[azure bay]

I guess, it's up to us.

the endings are open for interpretations

[floral mauve]

and its beautiful

[royal notch]

Or also, we are overreading things, and the devs' intention Is to explain better in other games.

What did you understand after playing seasons for the First Time? 😂

[azure bay]

I've seen a good ending for Laura's story

[floral mauve]

time travel and overdose

dont put random unknown things in the blender

DISGUSTINGGG

[vague imp]

Are there any theories why ms pheasant commits suicide unlike the other rusty lake hotel guests

[hidden ledge]

i dont think so

[royal notch]

For me, It was another incident, since there are no reasons to led her to death.

[hidden ledge]

people dont think about it very much

[azure bay]

depression that became an energy for many performances but she couldn't take it anymore?

[hidden ledge]

maybe she had to live with gerald

[azure bay]

?

I don't get your message

[hidden ledge]

its a joke because everyone hates mr boar

[vague imp]

lol

[royal notch]

Not me, he's funny.

[hidden ledge]

think Mark! the cow is sick

[royal notch]

The incident could have been extremely stupid: the flash could have gave her a reflex, making her press the trigger.

[hidden ledge]

she literally died for a selfie

[floral mauve]

bruh

I think its depression

[hidden ledge]

probably

[floral mauve]

she was most likely the lady in blue

balance the substance of her past life

you see loads of sht

dead fetus

[hidden ledge]

was she still blind when she was phesant

[royal notch]

Don't think so.

[azure bay]

very & very unlikely

[cerulean crypt]

That was diferent Body

[floral mauve]

have you seen a blind actress in a normal theatre?

like not specially designed for disabled ppl

not offending anyone here

[azure bay]

(blind people reading that are in rage now)

[vague imp]

yeah true

[hidden ledge]

lol

[cerulean crypt]

They can't

[floral mauve]

only Mr Bat can do that job

blind actor

[hidden ledge]

discord isn't really designed for blind people

[floral mauve]

off the topic (someone is watching)

[covert wyvern]

alright everyone

[royal notch]

And she's preparing BAN!

[hidden ledge]

lool

[covert wyvern]

IF I see you all ridicule disabilities again

you can expect a class trip to banville.

let me make that very clear.

[floral mauve]

told ya

[royal notch]

Yes, ma'am! 🥲

[cerulean crypt]

Just a random fact
A photography of Mr.Crow in theatre is the same with that made in Hotel

[floral mauve]

yep

[royal notch]

They left also the little clock.

[floral mauve]

(female crow fanart?)

so they are linked together

lady in blue

[cerulean crypt]

And a Mr.Crow?

[broken rune]

I still don’t get who are those 5 people in rusty lake hotel

[azure bay]

they are likely to be reborn Eilanders

[broken rune]

I mean mr owl already reborn

[azure bay]

& what's the problem?

[cerulean crypt]

Who was sacrified

[floral mauve]

Theoretically, Jakob was sacrificed for the reborn of the rest Eilanders. However, somehow Jakob didnt die due to Caroline and got enlightened in a spiritual way rather than physical way.

Like the sacrifice did work, its just the sacrifice subject didnt die in the end

[azure bay]

Jacob DID die due to a sacrifice of his own. He was reborn without forgetting his past life memories

[floral mauve]

yes

that

like phoenix basically

but instead a reborn owl

[broken rune]

All I can say is both Eilander and Vanderboom sacrifices are unique

[azure bay]

If we take Eilanders in general. If we focus on Jacob, Caroline has created the elixir & sacrificed herself. The only difference from the one of Vanderbooms - Caroline's ritual was not materialistic

[broken rune]

I wonder how she knew all of this

[azure bay]

No idea

[broken rune]

Like she did all this before sacrificing herself

[azure bay]

The only answer I can come up with is the lake that could help her. However, I see attitude of the lake being pro-passive

[broken rune]

Which helped jakob to guide and enlighten him

[hidden ledge]

ohh man it would have been so cool if he actually was a phoenix

opps sorry for pin

[floral mauve]

dont worry

[floral mauve]

I actually had a idea that Eilanders have a way longer history than the Vanderbooms. Every century or longer than that, one Eilander will be chosen to feed the lake and control it, thats why there is a tradition or ritual of sacrificing the first born and how Caroline knows about memories for the lake

The traditional way of getting enlightened is through the sacrifice, whereas Caroline found an alternative way which is Elixir

I guess Caroline is the smartest among the rest

[real lantern]

Damn, when i read this yesterday i had a realy great thought come to mind but now i forgot lmao

[real lantern]

Maybe the lake, after hundreds of years of being served by the eilanders, decided to give them a little reward in the form if imortality, and it would also help itself, because then they could learn even more ways to extract and feed it the memories

That wasnt my exact thought from yesterday but i just thought about this

[azure bay]

Nah, I think the lake just wants some things & may reward for them

But most of the time it doesn't care

[ebon aspen]

I dunno if this has been discussd bf (ive been away from theories stuff recently), but is there an explanation on why/how the eilanders became hybrids instead of getting corrupted?

I just remember that aldous got hybrid via elixir, but the eilanders case seemed confusing to me

[azure bay]

I'm pretty sure that the lake granted them enlightenment in exchange of life of their firstborn

& afterwards Jacob's soul was enlightened via Caroline & her elixir

[floral mauve]

idk why but hybrid sounds so wrong to me

pretty sure just a stage of the samsara wheel

[ebon aspen]

Hmm that makes sense, so there may be some others hybrids that came before

[ebon aspen]

Yeah yeah, its just im still havent got the asura/deva/everything else denominations XD

So i just call the misters and misses hybrids

[royal notch]

It's possible, but i don't think so, Mr Owl created the hotel as a place for the enlighteneds, It seems strange that nobody came up with that idea. I assume that Jakob has been the first ever.

[ebon aspen]

Nah, imagine you turn into a hybrid too: you would do crazy stuff or open a fricking hotel?

[royal notch]

Surely i wouldn't take this secret only for me.

[floral mauve]

Its not crazy if its Mr Owl

[ebon aspen]

Imo jakob did what he did for 2 reasons:

1. He seeked revenge against his family (bc of everything we see on paradise)
2. He wanted to find a way to "control" the lake (and thats why dale is passing thru all that stuff)

[royal notch]

I would leave some things, like Jakob did for William and Aldous (the formula). Surely only One can't take the responsability of such that Power.

[floral mauve]

or He wants to get some extra income

Business Owl

[royal notch]

I don't agree with the second point, Dale is destined to be his successor.

[ebon aspen]

Yeah, thats what im saying. Mr owl is a great mastermind and is putting his plans in action with a lot of caution. The reason other hybrids that couldve came bf didnt opened a hotel or tried to find another person to become what dale is going to be is that they werent focused like jakob

[ebon aspen]

In order to...?

[floral mauve]

Mr Owl is gonna leave

die or enter the deva stage

[ebon aspen]

I really thought owl was putting dale on that stuff so he could end all the lake shit, and jakob just dont do it by himself bc he knows his time is short

[floral mauve]

So Mr Owl isnt evil afterall?

[ebon aspen]

And prolly bc dale can be better to do it

[floral mauve]

He is just a fan of playing with words

[ebon aspen]

His means are really questionable, but he isnt a bad person

[floral mauve]

(Bob Crying noises)

[royal notch]

This seems sure. But all of this is not to overcome to the Lake, Is because he needs another person doing his job in the future.

[ebon aspen]

Soooo... whats his job? XD

[royal notch]

Avoid the apocalypse, maybe...

Governant of the Lake.

[ebon aspen]

The lake would be a great source for the end of the world

[floral mauve]

the thing is....who is feeding the lake before Caroline

[ebon aspen]

The people that lived on paradise island bf

[floral mauve]

It is not possible for Eilanders passing the words due to the enlightment

for example, one group of the previous Eilanders did the exact same thing, but they left the island

so who the f stayed there and produced more Eilanders

Its a bug

[royal notch]

Why are you sure about that?

[floral mauve]

because Mr Nicolas said it

a family myth

using the sacrifice

[ebon aspen]

Its called species perpetuation, and is a very needed thing if you live near a crazý lake that can make crazy stuff

[floral mauve]

bruh

[floral mauve]

someone must have done it to spread the myth

and this myth is turned out to be reliable

which proved that the sacrifice is not the first time in Paradise

[ebon aspen]

Considering the paradise island and near region inhabitants prolly were part of a cult to the lake, they really wouldnt mind to sacrifice their fisrtborn in order to keep things peaceful

[floral mauve]

not peaceful but live longer

the ten plagues is likely due to the wrong sacrifice

[ebon aspen]

Not having to deal with 10 plagues is a thing i would call peace XD

[floral mauve]

I dont think the 10 plagues would trigger if they dont do anything

only if they sacrifice a wrong person

the firstborn is the key

for them to get enlightment

but you might be right, all of those are interpretations

[royal notch]

I don't think so, otherwise Mr Owl wouldn't give a f to the Lake.

[floral mauve]

who said the ultimate horrible consequence is the ten plagues

[ebon aspen]

Sooo, why sacrificing then?

[floral mauve]

greedy human wants to live longer

[floral mauve]

otherwise Mr Owl could just go away from the lake

let it be

10 plague doesnt do shit in a global extent

[ebon aspen]

I dont think that sacrificing the firstborn would be a key to get enlightened, i really think its just to "feed" the lake and keeping it calm

[floral mauve]

but we saw them got reincarnated

[royal notch]

The Lake did that because he didn't had 10 memories, what could It even do if no One would feed him?

[floral mauve]

exactly

we dont know

[ebon aspen]

But frick with the people who didnt feed the lake

[floral mauve]

bruh

[royal notch]

Well, surely he won't be calm...

[floral mauve]

depends, if no one use the lake maybe it will be deactivated

just maybe

[ebon aspen]

And like ciaosonome said, the lake dont destroy the world bc it has been controlled for many years

[floral mauve]

if Caroline doesnt know anything

Lake would starve for years

[floral mauve]

best ending

a lake destroying its own habitat

I mean I discussed this with nowherecrafter before

[ebon aspen]

Im very sure someone struggled with plagues and stuff long ago and started the sacrifice tradition, passing it for those who came after

[floral mauve]

we got the same result

10 plagues is definatly not the ultimate outcome

[floral mauve]

ah reasonable

Migration is the key

seems like no one likes it

[ebon aspen]

Yeah ofc, the lake could end up destroying everything, the plagues are kinda poetical since the last one was "death of firstborn"

[floral mauve]

at least in this universe

wait...but that doesnt make sense

because you said the firstborn is about calming the lake

I think its still relates to enlightment

otherwise Mr Owl cant just throw random cubes into the lake

[real lantern]

I do like the term "control" here, maybe the godlike beings (the type we think dale is gonna become) are more powerful than the lake and can put an end to it

[royal notch]

In that case, why the Lake itself would help Dale reaching enlightement?

It doesn't make sense.

[ebon aspen]

Yeah yeah, i just havent found a better word for it XD

[real lantern]

We are talking about feeding the laje memories to "subdue" it, to kinda, calm it down, maybe it doesnt even know whats going on as long as you keep feeding it

[ebon aspen]

"Controlling" the lake would be making something to stop all the bad stuff it caused until now

[royal notch]

The Lake itself didn't do anything wrong, only gets really angry if nobody feeds him.

The human sacrifices were an Eilanders error.

[ebon aspen]

The lake is just a very hungy child after all

[real lantern]

"Rusty lake, the world destroying spoiled brat"

[real lantern]

They werent realy a mistake by the eilanders, they sacrificed caroline for enlightment, and when that didnt work jacob got called there to get sacrificed, and when he sacrificed the 10 memories from the same person to lake, it turned them into the humanoids

Wait, give me a second

Ok, so, i rewatched the ending of paradise and its just as i remembered, there was the 9 sacrifices from caroline in the way of the cubes, and then the 10th sacrifice was jacob himself, represented by the owl mask, and so, with the 10 sacrifices from the same person, jacob was enlightened

[royal notch]

I wrote bad, i was meaning that the Eilanders were wrong believing the Lake needed human sacrifices. The Lake only need fresh memories, and is able to extract them by itself. But he can't tell them that. So, i believe that, receiving a dead body, and as a consequence his memories, the Lake don't get angry, since he has what he want. That misunderstand could have been protrayed for centuries, until Caroline's discover.

[azure bay]

Caroline has personally stated those memories being elements of the elixir

[azure bay]

the ritual Caroline has performed in the ending seems to have nothing to do with the rest of the family because every time the elixir is mentioned we have the rule of 2: "1 will die, another one will be enlightened". Including Caroline's book

Therefore, Eilanders had to perform a ritual of their own

"Please take our sacrifice & enlighten us"

like the lake would do so in exchange of life of beloved one

Caroline apparently wasn't enough

maybe because "death of the firstborn" was exclusively required

we can assume that Eilanders have failed with Jacob as well (there is some evidence that they were possibly not reborn right away), however we have no idea what granted them enlightenment in that case

[broken rune]

So Caroline wrote out the recipe for the elixir

I wonder how in the world the alchemist bros had the recipe from?

[azure bay]

not complete one, she's hidden the last element

[broken rune]

Errr I forgot the story from paradise oops

In case you question, the alchemist bros were Aldous and William Vanderboom

[azure bay]

they could take Caroline's formula as a foundation for their research.

[broken rune]

But how did they get it from?

Mr owl?

[azure bay]

as an option

maybe on their own

[broken rune]

Make senses I guess since they were in rusty lake

[royal notch]

Yes, or also they found that in the same cave.

[broken rune]

Interesting

[azure bay]

they had to get access to the island in that case

[broken rune]

Wait they are different

[azure bay]

I don't think that depiction of their formula was accurate. Looked a lot like just a reference to the Alchemy game

[royal notch]

True.

[broken rune]

Well is a puzzle for us so it was very simple lol

[azure bay]

I don't really understand why don't Owl & Crow use the elixir anymore. In The Cave they had to make an extract of the older shot

like they don't have the formula anymore

or can't use it for a different reason

[royal notch]

We talked a lot about that, didn't we assume that only William know that entirely?

[azure bay]

I still hope that we can come up with a more elegant solution

Crow could use their old journals, for example

[royal notch]

What do you mean with "more elegant"?

[azure bay]

the one that would explain everything

for example, James was able to recreate the drink

why couldn't Crow?

[broken rune]

Is funny that they extracted it from dog’s poop

[royal notch]

As i said some time ago, It could be that James created the elixir starting by something already... ready. We don't know if that jar was empty, and the notes that James read could surely be only a little part of the process.

[azure bay]

what did stop Crow from doing the same?

[royal notch]

That's the weak point: from the beginning, Mr Crow wanted the full elixir (probably the golden cube), so he probably didn't care. James instead didn't know anything, and try immediatly to get an opportunity to become immortal.

And since him and the dog drank the jar entyrely, It could be that it's necessary extract It from the dog.

[azure bay]

what the difference between William's elixir & full elixir?

[broken rune]

They were busy on dale and laura

I guess why they don’t have time to make the elixir

[azure bay]

even before their birth?

[broken rune]

Well I mean mr crow was supervising of Vanderboom family tree

To ensure the resurrection is successful

But then after William was reborn idk what were they doing actually

[azure bay]

couldn't he take an hour to steal stuff from the lab?

[broken rune]

Lol

[royal notch]

It could be that the full elixir Is the golden cube that the enlighteneds are looking for. The creation of It Is in the book in the cave: Laura's good memory, her bad memory, a blue cube, and the Union of her and Dale's mind.

[azure bay]

I rather ask about their qualities

[broken rune]

Is it the timeline cave > paradox

[azure bay]

?

[royal notch]

Oh, well, i don't know. But i'm pretty sure that the golden cube would be way more powerful than the drink, if the enlighteneds are doing all of this work!

[broken rune]

I wonder where is the golden cube at

[azure bay]

what's Dale's importance then? He contributes nothing into the cube

[azure bay]

Either in Dale's or Bat's possession

[broken rune]

Lol

It would be funny if it’s on mr bat hand

[azure bay]

Dale gave him the cube inside his mind. That could be translated to the reality, I guess

[broken rune]

Maybe

[royal notch]

Ehm, union mind? Also, surely you can't enlighten with that cube the first person you see in the street, It has to be the new governant of the Lake!! In fact, they're also teaching Dale what he's meant to be.

[azure bay]

recreating the regular elixir & drinking it on regular basis would probably be much cheaper & safer. Excluding unnecessary humans would also exclude unnecessary degree of the human factor

I rather tend to think that there is no such thing as not full elixir. Dale's important because he's the one who's capable to get a higher boost via the same drink. The golden cube is a form of elixir that's just easier to recreate since memories that contain the formula may emulate the drink on their own.

Either way, none of our assumptions doesn't fully justify why Owl & Crow don't have access to it.

they could drink William's elixir if they had it & there were no other obstacles on their way

just in order to maintain themselves

but no

they have to make some shitty extract

[royal notch]

Literally!

[royal notch]

The point is, i think that the formula can't be extracted by Laura, since they didn't do that.

[azure bay]

They didn't have to if they were smart enough to use William's apparatus

[royal notch]

"Apparatus"?

[azure bay]

alchemical stuff

like tubes

glasses

etc.

[royal notch]

OK.

That's why i'm assuming that they don't (and can't) know the full formula.

[azure bay]

If I where Crow I'd move the whole lab away before inviting James

that was such a waste

it all looks like Owl & Crow were unaware of their limits of time

[royal notch]

Maybe It was part of the plan, instead.

[azure bay]

then they are good in shooting their legs

[royal notch]

I could explain that in a way.

[real lantern]

Soryy im kinda late, i slept a little lmao, but as i have stated prior, i believe that the alchemist brothers came up with the elixir recipe on their own, but, jacob told them about the lake and its powers, and how they could possibly maybe use their abilitys to create eternal life, the goal of al alchemist's ever

[azure bay]

still it doesn't really work with them being weakened in The Cave

[royal notch]

If i can go on, i can try to explain why James discover was planned.

[azure bay]

I'm curious, go on

[real lantern]

What Cpt_henry said is pretty interesting "maybe he was occupied with supervising the vanderbooms" aldous probably didnt know he only had a weak elixir, that only extended one's life, and so, he locked away his lab and started to watch over the vanderbooms, on the last puzzle on roots we can see everything is kinda rotten, so, we can assume that the papers and journals aldous and william wrote would be ilegible at that point, if james didnt destroy them all.

[azure bay]

or Mary that has lost a husband due to them

[real lantern]

That could also be it

[azure bay]

however, if we assume that the alchemist bros were hired or sponsored by Owl so they could recreate the elixir, losing the formula would be inappropriate

[real lantern]

Yeah, but in my mind their werent hired or sponsored, they were simply tipped that the lame was pretty... uncommon

Also, cianosome is writing the whole lore, be careful not to go over the 500 word limit

Nothing more painfull than losing a whole thing because you went over the limit

[azure bay]

there was no evidence of Vanderbooms during Paradise. The alchemists seem to build their house from scratch

[real lantern]

Yes, they were tipped BY jacob but not like, payed by him to make the elixir

[azure bay]

I don't really see much reasons to stay in touch with him

& move to the lake

unless 3 things:

1. they were supervised
2. the lake was somehow crucial
3. they were Eilander family descendants

[royal notch]

I agree with you that moving the lab would have been a great idea, but the problem is that that house was occupied only by the alchemist brothers, and they obviousoly have used It ENTIRELY for their researches, since they had the same goal. In fact, we can see that they wrote loads of appoints, papers, even books and diaryes around all the house. Deleting all the evidences of their researches by James view was likely as demolish the mansion, and so impossible. At this point, it was inevitable that James would started to search the way to the immortality, just like anyone else would do. So, the point was that the the family has to discover the elixir, drink It and forget It for fear. Let's think: if the dog would have lived (as happened), James would have drunk It and die. The rest of the family must have found his body in that lab, read everything, understood what happened and then be obviousoly scared by that drink, JUST THE THING THAT THE ALCHEMIST BROTHERS WANTED. The result Is the same if the dog would have died, in that case James would have been scared and warned the family.

[real lantern]

Yeah, for me number 2 is the correct one, the lake can clearly... manipulate things around it, maybe they needed the lake's power for their alchemy to work better, or work at all

[royal notch]

In fact, William's corrupted soul itself help James finding the lab.

[azure bay]

that's debatable

[royal notch]

OK, then, if you want you can assume that James did everything himself. The results are the same.

[azure bay]

expropriating elixir elements would stop James from rediscovering it

expropriating some crucial journals would also do that

& in exchange that would help Crow to easily maintain the crew

[royal notch]

The point of my theory Is that the word "some" Is unacceptable, since they used the whole house for their purpose.

[azure bay]

as I think about it, their stuff was seemingly limited to the journal & the lab

we don't stumble upon anything else in other chapters

[real lantern]

Wait, what was james reading about in the chapter where he finds the lab?

[royal notch]

In this case, as you said, Aldous Is great shooting his legs.

[azure bay]

about alchemist being close to finding elixir

[azure bay]

he's my personal favorite. I don't really want to see him being dumb

[royal notch]

Me neither, that's why i exposed this theory.

[real lantern]

So we do stumble into something in other chapters

There were clearly books about alchemy and the elixir around the house if james was able to find one

[azure bay]

if I remember correctly, there was just a single bookshelf in the house

[royal notch]

We could only see that one simply because it's the lab entrance.

[real lantern]

I mean, we probably dont see all the rooms in the house, and i doubt that people like alchemists would have only one bookshelf in a house so damn big lmao

[royal notch]

In fact.

[azure bay]

the house doesn't seem that big

[royal notch]

But also not so small.

[azure bay]

however, I'm pretty sure that we've seen the most of it during gameplay

we had so many chapters

& we have even more incoming

with TPW

[royal notch]

Will It be in the house?

[azure bay]

at least partly

we had some familiar objects

wallpaper, paintings

lantern

[real lantern]

One of albert's masks too

[royal notch]

In that case, It won't be like a Samsara room as i thought until now. Better this way.

[azure bay]

ok

to conclude all of the discussion

1. Owl could be unaware of his time being limited

2. Alchemist could either be attracted by the lake or be Owl's relatives (according to a theory I've seen on reddit). So 2 options against them being paid

thx for your help

@royal notch @real lantern

[royal notch]

I'm sure about the second point.

[real lantern]

My pleasure, i love having these long discussions about sonething as interesting as this game's lore haha

[royal notch]

Immediatly after have become Mr Crow, Aldous said that he had to go to Mr Owl. So they must have been encountered before.

[azure bay]

both of the brothers

[royal notch]

Yes.

[cerulean crypt]

They can work togethrer before

[azure bay]

actually that the thing that makes me think they could be paid or at least sponsored

[royal notch]

Nah, It can't be, like someone Immortal comes to you saying that he'll pay you if you find the way to become Immortal. That doesn't make sense.

[azure bay]

if Owl WERE aware of his time being limited he'd probably be looking for alchemist to recreate the elixir

[royal notch]

That's for sure! But why paying them? Their reward Is the elixir itself!!

[azure bay]

for the same reason scientists have to fight for grants

they need resources

& also food

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe this is where Vanderboom fortune comes from

It is Adolus payment

[royal notch]

Aaahhh, you mean as a financial support!! Yes, It surely could be! I thought as the pay as their reward!!

[azure bay]

as we've concluded earlier, Owl doesn't have working elixir in the end

[cerulean crypt]

It works for some time

and then it need to be "consumed" again

[azure bay]

then they would've preserve the formula in order to have all time access to the elixir

[cerulean crypt]

But they need to extract Elixir from dog

so formula was lost?

[azure bay]

or the elixir is inaccessible for other reason

for example, a friend of mine assumed some activation being required

at least in order for elixir being safe to drink

[royal notch]

Go on with this "activation".

[cerulean crypt]

Didn't elixir need sacrifieco of one being?

[royal notch]

No.

[azure bay]

that's supposed to be that activation

[royal notch]

Wait, what?

[cerulean crypt]

James and dog, William and Adolus

one live , other die

[azure bay]

Jacob & Caroline, Dale & Laura

[royal notch]

But it's not true that the first die.

[azure bay]

agree

what's more, this activation theory would kinda ruin the rule of 2

[royal notch]

Yeah.

[cerulean crypt]

Maybe the rule of 2 is Activacion

if only one person consume elixir it don't work

[real lantern]

What about the extract then? Shouldnt it also require a sacrifice?

[azure bay]

in that case everyone else consuming this elixir would also experience its effect & it wouldn't be the rule of 2 anymore

[azure bay]

according to the theory, it's activated by James

[real lantern]

Ah, makes sense

[cerulean crypt]

Dog wasn't elighten

[royal notch]

No, because the dog drank It first.

[cerulean crypt]

so other person that will consume THAT elixir will be

[azure bay]

I guess, you need to have a degree of consciousnesses in order to be enlightened.

[royal notch]

And James died...

[real lantern]

Because it was an animal, it didnt have the cognitive function to be able to be enlightened

Its like trying to teach a dog rocket science

[cerulean crypt]

But according to some people, harvey was just a parrot

that consume elixir

[azure bay]

to be fair, elixir has its effect on the dog. The life is obviously prolonged

[royal notch]

In fact, i don't agree with those people.

[real lantern]

Well, those people could be wrong, just as we could

[cerulean crypt]

And maybe that is why that elixir was weaker

[azure bay]

the more plausible reason is concentration of the elixir particles

[cerulean crypt]

But if Dog life was longer, it could possibly consume some of them

[azure bay]

maybe. However, I think that was the reason why did effect on Owl & Crow did wear off. Most of the particles have already left their bodies

[cerulean crypt]

Well... Mr.Crow consume elixir over 100 years before the Cave

And Elixir can left the body with...other matter

[azure bay]

that means that the dog would provide the elixir for another 15 years at maximum

[cerulean crypt]

Why that time?

[azure bay]

it consumed the elixir 10 years after Crow. 5 bonus years are for the reason of dog's digestive system operating on a different scale. I don't remember for sure how much time it would bring. 5 years is just the most optimistic forecast

[cerulean crypt]

But we don't know the ammount of consumed elixir

[azure bay]

and we also should assume that Crow started losing his powers just recently

[cerulean crypt]

And maybe Mr.Crow drinked elixir in some point

[azure bay]

I doubt that

[cerulean crypt]

I also, we don't know anybody else than Jacob creating elixir

[hidden ledge]

if james just waited for the dog to die...

[vague imp]

Are the vanderbooms related to the eilanders

[ebon aspen]

The only relation between the families is that aldous and william found the eilanders alchemy stuff, but i dont think they are linked by blood

[floral mauve]

some claimed that the brothers were a branch of Eilanders but its not confirmed

it is very likely to marry each other in two neighbouring family

I mean thats a common rule for the old aristocracy, unless those two families hate each other

I just realised that enlightenment is not permanent recently

pathetic

[vague imp]

It isn’t?

[floral mauve]

Have you played the Cave

[vague imp]

That’s why they have to keep taking the elixir? I assumed they needed it to maintain their weird furry bodies

[floral mauve]

Two enlightened character still need to get more green weird possion from sht

[vague imp]

jk on the furry thing but yeah

[floral mauve]

exactly

[vague imp]

I assumed it prevented them from dying and breaking the cycle

[floral mauve]

cheap elixir effect

(insert minecraft potion but with a longer expire time)

[vague imp]

bc I assumed if you die while enlightened you don’t come back

[floral mauve]

However, I think there must be a more permanent version

otherwise its just...

cheap

[floral mauve]

why

[vague imp]

I guess I’m not entirely sure what enlightenment is in universe

[floral mauve]

enlightened doesnt mean immortal

guests still died

[floral mauve]

it helps them slow down the natural death

[vague imp]

I thought that was a belief in many systems. Enlightenment breaks the cycle of reincarnation

[floral mauve]

not really

it also belongs to the samsara

the animal human form

forgot the name.....emmm

yes

Asura

that

[floral mauve]

Entering another stage of the samsara mostly believed as becoming Asura I guess

which has a special effect of slowing down the natural death

tbh I am not an expert in this

[vague imp]

Isn’t samsara the corruption or marking on the pure essence of the soul?

[floral mauve]

noooo

Samsara is a eastern concept

about life and reincarnation

you could learn it by looking at some unofficial RL posts to see the links and symbols

I am too lazy to explain

[real lantern]

Enlightment is,you become the humanoid things and you cant die of natural causes like old age, but, in the case of aldous and william, they dont have the full elixir so they are "kind of" enlightened, they have to keep taking the elixir, or else they go back to being just a normal human,

If they get an axe dropped on their heads, or get electrocuted in a bathtub they still die

[ebon aspen]

Mr owl is dying from age too, no? Somethings on the cave and paradox seemed to hint to this

[floral mauve]

the dog seems to be weird

James was big brain

if we compare the size of the body and the amount of Elixir consumed by each subject

the dog actually drunk lots of Elixir

maybe thats why Elixir can stay longer in dog's body because its way too much in its proportion?

However, what makes me confused is that the devs have shown that extracting Elixir waste is a way of reproducing Elixir

why didnt Mr Owl and Crow collect their own feces

(Mr Boar 100)

[ebon aspen]

Bc if their bodies rejected it once, they would reject twice

[floral mauve]

wdym

thats not how extraction work no?

I hava a cursed thought

they could swap feces

and...you know what to do

[vague imp]

derp I was thinking of samskaras

Maybe the dog had Buddha spirit already

Sorry about that guys

[real lantern]

Because they didnt know that they would have to

They didnt know it wasnt a perfect elixir, so by the time they found out they probably had become human already

[floral mauve]

awww

they forgot to collect their own shat

Actually, I also realised that it sems the sacrifice ritual enlightenment is permanent

whereas the manmade drug is not

Elixir

maybe thats why

a drug must have its expire date

[floral mauve]

you gotta provide more evidence

I think the power of the lake is related to enlightenment

Here is a interpretation: Lake can provide a substance in a spiritual form that can enlighten ppl, whereas Caroline found a substitute (Elixir) of the substance by combining memory cubes since lake takes memories too.......

and apparently, lake's enlightenment is a more complete one

[azure bay]

What's perfect elixir?

[real lantern]

By that i mean like, the full elixir, the one that gives eternal life

[azure bay]

What are the evidence of its existance?

[real lantern]

I mean, isnt that what we theorize owl and other people are looking for?

Honestly i could probably just be brainfarting realy bad lmao

[azure bay]

All of them were looking for elixir, yes.

No one was calling it full or not full

Owl mentioned full elixir when he had none

Just an extract

[real lantern]

I just meant like, an elixir that you dont need to extract from someone that had the "life extending" elixir

Jesus, im not being able to express myself

Gimme a moment so my brain can words😆

What i mean is, an elixir that lasts forever, an elixir that you dont have to take every few hundred or how many years,

[azure bay]

That would be cool. But is this elixir even possible?

Samsara implies that no body is eternal

Only their souls

[real lantern]

Yes, im probably just brainfarting realy bad, im super tired lmao

[azure bay]

That's not the case

It's easy to interpret things in your way
I just don't think it's justified enough

[astral frost]

@azure bay isn't the real enlightenment something like "escaping from the Samsara"?

[azure bay]

You bet

[astral frost]

Hhahah

[real lantern]

Oh, i remember, what i meant was, an elixir that lets you become the humanoid beings forever, lets yiu be enlightened until... i dunno, you get stabbed or something

[astral frost]

I mean, it seems that the topic was never considered in the series yet

[azure bay]

In the original uncanon Samsara Room

[astral frost]

But I also remember, from my poor knowledge about the real samsara, that the enlightenment is stopping that cycle of rebirth

Even if, in that case, stopping the Samsara could be equal to "succeeding in staying in one of the stages, in a stable way"

I must admit that Mr Owl doesn't seem to desire so much power

When he found Dale, he started to train him to be his successor

[azure bay]

That's actually a nice point. However every mention of elixir speaks about enlightenment while its effect just gives karma boost at best

[astral frost]

True

[azure bay]

What's more, Samsara Room remake still talks about it

Like William is searching & is meant for it

3 options I see here:

1. His transformation into human is also called enlightenment
2. He's destined for it much further in the future
3. He's lied to about it

[astral frost]

I mostly agree with the first 2 ones mixed together

I think that "enlightenment" is described to use a generic karma boost

Sometimes also a rebirth in the Human realm

[azure bay]

The dog seemingly didn't get any boost

[astral frost]

Right

But no one talked about him,or said "he's enlightened"

So we don't know how Mr Crow and Mr Owl consider that event

[azure bay]

Except for alchemist's journal

[astral frost]

You mean the one in Roots?

I don't remember sry

[azure bay]

Tge page from it on the wall behind the dog

That states the rule of 2 for the first time

Ah

Damn

I'm wrong

It states not enlightenment

But an eternal life

& now I realise why exaclty we understand enlightenment in a way we do

It has just replaced eternal life so we all think about it being the same

[astral frost]

Yes yes right

[azure bay]

Going deeper into this rabbit hole, wasn't it retconned?

In the very next game

[astral frost]

In Cave

?

[azure bay]

Yes. So Dale could have more important role

[astral frost]

Yep

In Cave there was only a drawing

It showed the process of extracting the elixir from the poop

But Mr Crow never commented that thing

And he didn't say anything about the dog

[azure bay]

What's your message here?

[astral frost]

I mean that something happened to the dog: enlightenment or simply a long life

But we can't say that he's enlightened for sure

[azure bay]

The dog might be not enlightened just because enlightenment probably wasn't a thing yet in Roots

Hmm

Samsara was

[royal notch]

Aldous got enlighten before.

[azure bay]

Originally he could get just a so-called "eternal life"

Before the term was changed

[royal notch]

Oh, you mean as game developing?

[azure bay]

Yeah

[royal notch]

Oh, sorry, then.

[astral frost]

But he also became an Asur

Something different from the dog

[azure bay]

Higher state of consciousness was already a thing important for the boost

If Dale gains one higher than the one of Aldous & gets a higher form, therefore the lack of it in case of the dog could lead to nothing

[astral frost]

We also discussed about how the Animals can get enlightened

And it seems that the elixir that the Humans used didn't work for the dog

If you think about that, every stage has a specific way to get enlightened

The Corrupted Souls can reach a higher stage in a different way from Humans

So this could be also true for the Animals

[real lantern]

This makes me imagine a dog doing a backflip and becoming a being of uncontrolable power made of pure light

[astral frost]

The endless generator

[floral mauve]

In my opinion

Enlightenment means more than just entering Asura

it means entering the next stage of samsara

However

I believe that Elixir wasnt made for animals to enter the human stage

(it was made for human to enter Asura)

which is why the dog just lives longer but cant transform to anything else

since he stayed at the same stage of samsara

Therefore, it can be concluded that Elixir can:

1. make subjects live longer
2. make human subjects enlightened

[azure bay]

Dale is to become a dev

I expect elixir's effect being affected by something else

Like state of consciousness or smth

An interesting question: if there is a whole asur society that had never any way of getting hands on elixir do they
A) have this prolonged life?
B) even have a human form to fall back into?

[solid haven]

Just regular samsara and no human form?

[floral mauve]

I actually aint sure about this, since the traditional sacrifice does enlighten ppl but before they can live for 100 years they got killed by Mr Owl, so we actually dont know

so maybe no prolonged life?

Well for B, I think they do.... since everyone is a part of the samsara wheel

which means everyone has the chance of becoming any stage of the samsara

that means you may become an animal and an animal might become a human

and deva, asura, corrupted preta, etc.

However, in RL universe and also in any universe, you need to fulfill something to become each stages

(you cant just randomly switch them)

[astral frost]

Yes yes it's what I was saying

What's more, enlightenment behaves differently basing on the stage you are in

[floral mauve]

I guess advanced medicine is a true revolution

we should praise Caroline

[royal notch]

Many times corrupted souls are defined "hungry ghosts". But hungry of what?

[covert wyvern]

A new body? Good memories? Release? Who knows!

[royal notch]

I've thought about the first answer. But It doesn't seems possible for them getting it always, because not everyone has his memories extracted.

[real lantern]

What about in cave, where, after you give aldous the extract, you can change him between his human and humanoid form

[floral mauve]

I personally think its due to the pathetic quality of the Elixir

which is not really stable

Mr Owl and Crow in the previous games have never shown their faces switching tbh

especially Aldous

[floral mauve]

In buddhism, preta means hungry ghost

(If Damy doesnt mind I can extend this part more)

Corrupted are suffering according to Mr rabbit

whereas preta is suffering as well in the Samsara

btw if anyone is interested

here is the order of pain which I believe also exists in RL universe

Deva>Asura>man>animal>Preta>naraka

[floral mauve]

I will dm you hungry of what

[covert wyvern]

@floral mauve bit of a late response but if you think it can enhance your explanations and theories it's fine

Just don't take any religion talk further than it has to.

All about context ;)

[floral mauve]

ah

Hungry ghost is like some fucked up species that are living in hell and some living in human world(but most ppl cant see them), all controlled by Eastern Lucifer, they are greedy, never fulfilled by anything, thats why they are called hungry ghosts. In addition, hungry ghosts are always suffering, they felt pain due to their punishment for greedy by deva. There are different types of preta as well, but thats too off the topic

this

Damy is this fine

[covert wyvern]

This is a fine explanation

Like that's fine^ but for example going: "well Rusty Lake borrows elements from Buddhism, and if you don't believe in Buddhism you're not believing in the right religion"

That'd be bad

Same with going "jesus is my lord and saviour, he should make an appearance in RL" would be wrong too

We have a no religion rule, but I understand some aspects may need to he explained to back up theories.

[floral mauve]

bruh, just dont say anything subjective

[covert wyvern]

As mentioned: just don't go further than you need to.

Exactly.

If you ever pass a line we'll obviously tell ya too ;)

[real lantern]

But the thing is, its not like its switching randomly, it just switches when we tap it

[floral mauve]

BRUH

[royal notch]

I tend to think that the enlighteneds are able to choose everytime what form have, human or antropomorf.

(unless they don't have elixir, in this case they stay only human)

[astral frost]

What's more, it happened in Case 23 too

The "old man" became suddenly Mr Crow

[royal notch]

No, that was a mask.

[astral frost]

Without the elixir

Are you sure?

[royal notch]

Yes, when they "switch form, they Hide their heads inside their dress.

For me, in that moment Aldous was already in enlighten form, but wanted to show Dale It in that way.

For making him understand that the misterious old man of the mill was something more.

[astral frost]

Right right

That would explain also his mouth tied up hahahah

[royal notch]

Exactly.

[astral frost]

Like a seam

[royal notch]

The point is that enlighteneds must change someway their aspect, otherwise they should live locked in the Hotel. But Jakob is even the manager of The White Door.

Just to make an example.

[astral frost]

Yes yes

[astral frost]

Someone could have said that we can't distinguish wheter they are Human because they want it or because of the lack of elixir

[royal notch]

I don't think that they're so powerful at the point to decide what we have to see. In my opinion, they don't even have any kind of superpower.

The magic we see sometimes is from the Lake, not from Mr Owl.

Like Harvey's rebirth.

Or Dale's floating.

[astral frost]

I think that Mr Owl can somehow manipulate that magic

[floral mauve]

Are you sure its due to lake not Asura power?

[astral frost]

Even if it doesn't come from him

[floral mauve]

Asura is superior than human but weaker than god

I still believe that they cant switch forms easily

unless they are forced to

like Harvey

[royal notch]

I think so. Being the choosen one must have some advantages, but not so many.

[floral mauve]

not the chosen one

I mean Mr Owl

made Dale float

[royal notch]

They were literally at the coast of the Lake.

[floral mauve]

but from Dale's office?

Mr Owl can teleport

He even said it in a letter

to Mr Crow

about bringing Dale

[royal notch]

He only said to have found him.

[floral mauve]

Then why is it necessary for Mr Owl to show up

if he can just manipulate the lake far away

[royal notch]

What do you want to say? The Lake doesn't ask for memories every second, he has some free time, where he can easily travel as a normal human from Rusty Lake to New York (assuming they're there).

[floral mauve]

I want to say its Mr Owl bring Dale to the lake

using storms

[royal notch]

I perfectly agree with this, but we have no reasons to make him floating in the clouds for kilometres! Can't Jakob just have bring him asleep and drive him to Rusty Lake?

[floral mauve]

emmmmm then why do we see him floating

He may teleport

I mean Jakob can drive for sure

but that kinda lame

He gotta break in his office

I think it is likely that Dale was put to sleep after staring at the fan

[royal notch]

If he's SO MUCH powerful, he could literally teleport Bob to The White Door, but no, he want that Is Bob going there.

[floral mauve]

remember he likely lost his power in TWD

[royal notch]

Maybe because they're at RUSTY LAKE? Where he can direct Lake Powers for his purposes.

[floral mauve]

CS said no apparently

[royal notch]

That Institute was opened much time before 1972.

[floral mauve]

we already saw him losing his power in Cave

the extract is not enough

[royal notch]

That his AFTER The White Door!

[floral mauve]

(might make a deal with Mr Crow about exploiting the dog ppop)

[floral mauve]

so? Does it make any difference?

They must save up for the extract

For those fake Asura, they have to rely on Elixir

[royal notch]

Don't you want to say that they lose their Power away from the Lake?

[floral mauve]

nope

[royal notch]

Sorry. Then what?

[floral mauve]

I said the moment when they dont have enough Elixir

they return back to human form

which made them lose all the power

The Elixir extract is not enough for them to keep in Asura form all the years

thats why I think Mr Owl and Crow only managed to bring Dale

and the particle of Elixir is not stable I believe

which is why their head switches

[royal notch]

But if they aren't even able to choose their heads, how can they live outside the Hotel?

[floral mauve]

did they live outside the hotel?

with Asura form?

[royal notch]

No.

[floral mauve]

Apparently Mr Jakob didnt

I believe later on the extract is so little that they cant even use their magic frequently

They drink it only to sustain their lives

We can even see that Jakob didnt even have enough extract for him to dive easier

thats kinda sad

[royal notch]

But if you say that, after have drunk the elixir, they're not able to choose their form, how can they be human STABLY?

[floral mauve]

oh gosh..you seem not to understand...

so basically the poor quality extract can make them temporarily back to Asura form

not very stable

then, after a certain time, they will back to human form

since the Elixir particle would leave their body

again

[royal notch]

In this case, after the 1796, Jakob must have been living in the Hotel for years.

[floral mauve]

why is that

He could walk around as the manager

but in human form

[floral mauve]

I believe in 19 century he still have enough Elixir in his body

[royal notch]

But you Just said he can't switch form!!!!!!!!

[floral mauve]

that when he have enough Elixir particle in his body

Jez

I am exhausted of explaining

I think when TWD happened, is when Jakob and Aldous were struggling of the Elixir

they cant even show up in Asura form all the time

at least for Jakob

since he got enlightened before Mr Crow

[royal notch]

But he can't have lived locked in the Hotel for so much time.

How can he only have bring the Hotel without being able to exiting for, for example, buying the food and everything needed in a hotel?

[floral mauve]

He could buy food in Asura form

or even invisible

[floral mauve]

Asura deva and preta can do this according to Buddhism

[royal notch]

You're saying that he's so powerful, but he can't even switch his head?

That would be ilarious, man.

[floral mauve]

I said HE CANT CONTROL IT WHEN HE IS IN LACK OF ELIXIR PARTICLE IN HIS BODY

apparently he has enough Elixir particle in his body in 19 century

[royal notch]

But when he's full of them???

[floral mauve]

and possibly early 20 century

[royal notch]

You said that he can't switch his head even in this case!

[floral mauve]

yes exactly

[royal notch]

So, It means he can't have left the hotel for almost a century!

[floral mauve]

He could be invisible

[floral mauve]

why

who said being in Asura means trapped in hotel

remember he also built the Hotel

[royal notch]

What? He could have done literally everything, also killing Laura!

[floral mauve]

Yes

but Laura hasnt been born

[floral mauve]

when everything we saw happened in 20 century, he is already weak

he was powerful in 19 century

[azure bay]

She kinda was. Otherwise Rose wouldn't be required

[floral mauve]

in 19 century?

[azure bay]

Ah

You were talking about time period

Ok

Go on

[floral mauve]

@azure bay Do you agree with the Elixir extract particle theory

scroll up

I am interested in my weird approach

[azure bay]

May I have shorter version?

I have multiple convos right now

[floral mauve]

oh

So basically, Elixir will leave ppls body after probably a century time. Then, Jakob cant keep his Asura form all the time in 20 century, which weakened him

Also they cant switch Samsara stage easily

Asura has the magic of teleport

Asura may have the ability to be invisible

The extract is not stable

which made him switch heads temporarily

Mr Owl has been in human form in 20 century for a while

due to Elixir shotage

(in TWD)

[azure bay]

I assume, Aldous could become weakened pretty much recently

& even Owl has contacted Dale from 1966 in his asur form

However, I agree on elixir leaving bodies over time

[floral mauve]

Exactly! Thats why we can still see him(Aldous) in Asura form in TWD

[azure bay]

We've seen Jacob in asur form in 1972

In The Mill

He was even exploiting his weather powers

[floral mauve]

I also said that the extract is not quite stable

I think it can only support Jakob for a few days or weeks

Otherwise he doesnt need to show up as the Manager

[azure bay]

Why exactly?

[floral mauve]

or drive around the city

[floral mauve]

he cant switch form easily only if the Elixir got expired

He return back to human form

[azure bay]

I don't see any reason for Mr. Owl taking his asur form in TWD

[floral mauve]

I think he was ran out of the Elixir back then

(Still waiting or save up for more poops)

[azure bay]

Nah, your pov is no better than "Mr. Owl was just hiding his powers" statement

[floral mauve]

aw

[azure bay]

It could be both

No data that would make something more objectively preferable

[floral mauve]

but you cant switch samsara form directly right?

[azure bay]

In Case 23 & The Cave we see Crow & Owl doing that by their will

[floral mauve]

?

[azure bay]

After their powers are restored to some degree

[floral mauve]

I think its more likely to be unstable extract

after drinking it

may become better afterwards

[azure bay]

It did not look like that in Crow's case

[floral mauve]

Case 23?

He was not in human form

He was wearing a mask!

[azure bay]

No. It was his legit human form. Why would he use a mask of his own face?

[floral mauve]

idfk

[azure bay]

In the Cave all his animations of changing form were going like he was in control of everything

[floral mauve]

He literally ripped his face off

not a smooth switching

[azure bay]

No. It was just an unsettling metamorphose

[floral mauve]

BRUH

[azure bay]

You just can't hide a giant bird head inside a tiny human shape

[floral mauve]

emmmm...i am not sure but maybe u can?

[azure bay]

With synchronisation of eyes?

[floral mauve]

well in theatre he also did the same

reverse Asura mask

[azure bay]

Animating a giant hat on tiny head seems much more natural than doing exactly the same but vise versa. We also should consider extended surrealism of Theatre or at least Crow's possible ability of deaging (?)

[floral mauve]

sure if you say so

[final basalt]

Oops I missed the lake location convo

But....I am convinced it is somewhere in either the Midwest or eastern US, mostly due to even the older (the supernatural 100+ ones) characters having American accents

With the addition of nearby caves, the idea of places of inherent power, the folk magic, and still having ties to Europe, my money is on somewhere in either Tennessee or Kentucky, close to Appalachia.

[vague imp]

Personally I think it’s in eastern Canada or the north east us. To me the landscape plus the presence of mountains suggest east of the Mississippi but it has to be somewhere with mountains like that which limits it

I don’t think the Midwest has any actual mountains

[final basalt]

....fair point

Nothing but corn as far as the eye can see

Maybe it's in the Adirondacks somewhere

[floral mauve]

I highly doubt if the devs would think this is important since it is fictional

but I think its in somewhere America

Due to detective and police, and where TWD is based

[azure bay]

You make a huge mistake by assuming that the lake has to be situated close to main characters. While most of them are likely to live in US, the lake is kinda confirmed to require a plane trip for them to get there

Then, recalling Leonard's uniform, we eliminate US as an optuion for the lake itself

The date on the chapel is likely to completely disprove America unless you find some reasons to ignore that

[vague imp]

The number in the chapel isn’t necessarily the founding date though

Adirondacks or Canada seem the most likely to me based on the landscape

The Netherlands doesn’t make sense imo because it’s flat as hell there

[cerulean crypt]

Or something possible but bo plausible
Chapel was moved from Europ to America with Dutch emmigrants

And if we assume that lake is in Canda, i will point at Ontario and Manitoba 'cuz fish looks like golden redhorse

A fish that live in that regions

[floral mauve]

If you need to go to the lake by plane

that proved Dale must be teleported to the lake

not just knocked out and driven there by Mr Owl

[cerulean crypt]

Mr.Owl with bat Bonking Dale into head just to leave him alone in chapel

[floral mauve]

Its actually hard to tell if Leonard is British or not

He fought in the Western Front in WWI

which is mainly Americans and British

[cerulean crypt]

And he also wore brithish uniform that also nail down possible location to several countries

[floral mauve]

I am actually unaware of that

not a military fan

[cerulean crypt]

A hat is a specific a brithish uniform

[floral mauve]

the top left looks like Leonard uniform for me tbh

[cerulean crypt]

It is called Brodie Helmet

[floral mauve]

not really, in WWI Americans also had those

Western Front is ligit a mixture

[cerulean crypt]

USA didn't fight in 1914

[floral mauve]

oh

shit thats right

I forgot the date of Leonard

he joined the army in 1914?

[cerulean crypt]

yes

[floral mauve]

then fuck the rest

[cerulean crypt]

and he wears uniform form future

[floral mauve]

He is a british

[floral mauve]

dev bug?

[azure bay]

Not a bug. Just anachronism

Pozac is another one

It became accessible in 80s

Definitely not 60s-70s

Unless Owl has some exclusive access to technological prototypes

[azure bay]

Or Rusty Lake is a different universe with minor differences in history

[floral mauve]

Imagine Laura died because the prozac is expired

[polar robin]

hello hello, i have a little question about a date problem in cube escape case 23/the mill
so in case 23, dale is on the crime scene on fall 1971 (when the body of the woman is taken) and in his office in 1972, but the mill take place in summer 1972 so it take 9 month to the body of the woman to come a the lake?

[azure bay]

1. she could be stored inside the clock

2. it could happen that "the time stopped"

3. she could be taken directly to the future

[polar robin]

okay, so there is only supposition, thank you!

[rapid ivy]

Hi, just wanted to jump into that discussion of Lake’s location.
Honestly, personally I lean towards version of Canadian placement of the Lake as yes, Leo’s uniform looks kinda canadian like and Canada was involved in ww1 in 1914. Also the mountainous landscapes, yeah

[floral mauve]

true..but did the Canadians join the trench in 1914?

oh nvm thats not important since he lost his leg in 1918

[rapid ivy]

He might’ve lost it earlier than 1918. I mean, these were his flashbacks, he could’ve had this accident in 1917 for example and then be for a while in hospital before moving home

[final basalt]

ooooh nice catch on the Canadian WWI ties with Leonard

I am definitely okay with the lake being in Canada. A good distance away. Lol

[final basalt]

Omg. Putting down spoiler tags for Paradise/Hotel but ||is Jacob Ellander from Paradise Mr. Owl? Is that the implication from that ending???||

[ivory girder]

yep

anyways it is theories so u don't need to use the spoiler thing

[final basalt]

Ahhh okay

I need one of those yarn boards to sort out the series plot

[real lantern]

Hahahaha, it gets easyer with time

[final basalt]

From what I can figure out Rusty Lake might have always been a place of power, which is why the Ellanders moved there. But what they did to Jacob's mother caused so much pain and suffering that it was the equivalent of tossing a 5 lb rock into a pond. Destroyed whatever barriers existed and turned the lake into a black hole for the concentrated memories of human beings.

[real lantern]

What (most of) us think is that, the eilanders lived there from the beggining of their family tree, and did the memory sacrifices to "calm" the lake, after jacob's mother died no one knew how to feed the lake, and after a few months? Years? I dunno, without feeding, it unleashed the 10 plagues upon paradise, and then the rest of the eilander called jacob to see if he knew hot to fix the problem

Well i put (most of) but it could be only me lmao

[final basalt]

Well they were going to sacrifice Jacob originally, that combined with Dad Ellander/Mr. Deer's research notes have me convinced that he was actively looking to take the power for himself and his family, and walked out of it feeling like they'd succeeded, until the events of Hotel

[ivory girder]

r we all agree that the guests in hotel = the eilander's family?

[final basalt]

I mean it was blatantly obvious to me anyway, talk about a nice revenge plot

[real lantern]

Well, the thing is, i dont think the jacob sacrifice worked, i dont think thats when tge rest of the eilanders became enlightened

[ivory girder]

like in the rusty lake's blog they announced the age and what the hotel's guest job but if u guys considered they are the same it doesn't make sense that mr. boar is the oldest in the family

[real lantern]

Exacly, thats why i dont think that they became enlightened when jacob was sacrificed

[final basalt]

Did Hotel come before or after Paradise?

[ivory girder]

after

[real lantern]

After

Way after

[ivory girder]

100+ years after

[final basalt]

Ahhhhh okay

I'm used to "new entry, old entry retconned" sequels

[ivory girder]

yeah i used to think they are the same but after seeing the age nope

[final basalt]

Oh wait you mean the actual events, what about the game release date?

[ivory girder]

both

[final basalt]

Okay

Never mind then

[real lantern]

Actualy i think hotel came before paradise no?

[ivory girder]

oops i was wrong sorry

[final basalt]

Yeah idk if RL changed their minds on the lore, is my point