#🤔｜theories | Rusty Lake | Page 102

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:00 PM

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even the Past Within seems related to changing the past (something I still don't believe is present in Rusty Lake)

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:18 PM

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In paradox crow and owl are using dave to learn more about all the memories/time travel stuff. For me its more probable that they were messing with his mind that actually showing him multiple universes. Various timelines would match with the things we already know about the series (and paradox is all about dale being trapped and trapped again, maybe his soul/mind state were shifting due to all this, not to mention crow and owl involvement), but i dont think that other universes exist in the series. Tbh, in my opinion it wouldnt add much to the plot or the lore unless there will be a lot of new games to deepen in this idea, but too much of anything isnt good and adding more and more concepts would, at least for me, ruin a so far very well constructed narrative

Obviously i would love to have a lot of rusty lake games in the future, but sometimes less is more, and i think the devs are going through this path

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Or im mistaken and soon dale will be revealed to be batman XD

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:20 PM

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(I hope not)

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Btw, in Paradox Mr Owl and Mr Crow know yet all the "Cube theory" (since they even create the Golden Cube, the most powerful one), so their real goal is to help Dale in his journey

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:23 PM

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astral frost even the Past Within seems related to changing the past (something I still don't...

Yeah, all "the past is never dead, is not even past" kinda bugs me out due to paradoxes and shit, but stating that "is not even past" makes me think that the altered timelines are possible, like going back to visit a past memory, change THE MEMORY and "create" a new series of events starting at that point, but actually what we think we are doing in the past is in the present

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:25 PM

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I get your point, but wouldn't it be similar to the whole multiverse and multiple timelines stuff?

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:26 PM

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ebon aspen Yeah, all "the past is never dead, is not even past" kinda bugs me out due to pa...

Man, i really HATE time travel plots bc every single one has different rules and overally its just a "aw i messed this up lets go back and solve everything yey"

This dont mean i dont like rl games, its just the travel concept that always freaks me out XD

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:27 PM

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I agree with you hahahah, I'm scared too

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about that possibility

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:30 PM

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astral frost I get your point, but wouldn't it be similar to the whole multiverse and multipl...

Rereading what i wrote i think that "altered timelines" isnt the best label, but something like "past, present and future convergence" (i dont know ho to explain, but the my message about visiting the memories and continuing the present in the "past"without in fact altering the past can give a better idea)

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:31 PM

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ok ok now I got it better XD

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I have even a simpler theory

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about that "past"

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:32 PM

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Multiple timelines at some point would create a infinite series of travels to the past due to conflict of interests: one come back and change everything, then the other do the same and nobody ever will get happy with the outcome

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As i said, time travels plots are always messy to create and understand

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:33 PM

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agree

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Personally, I think that there aren't "real" time travels

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Changing the past means that you can change your memories about some events, without changing the fact that they happened

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Laura faced her past and escaped from Corruption, but this didn't delete the fact that she died in 1971

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:38 PM

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Yeah, the whole enlightenment thing is about dealing with the high and lows of the memories and overcome all the traumas of the past lives (or simply the traumas of the past of the current life)

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Theres no time machine in the series, only the cubes with the memories

astral frost Feb 25, 2021, 11:40 PM

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right!

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sorry dude but I'm going to sleep right now, it's late😴

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good night👋

ebon aspen Feb 25, 2021, 11:42 PM

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Bye man!

manic brook Feb 26, 2021, 4:21 AM

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I was gone for ONE shift wow
This is some really good stuff good job!

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:43 AM

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@astral frost I've noticed something

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The day of the lake that happens once in a while seems to be connected directly to the plagues

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the Darkness one was mentioned to inevitably happen the day before it

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& the Death Of The Firstborn seems to be caused not by the lake but rather by the cultists

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I'm confused

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the memories belong to the lake & stop the plagues

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but somehow the plagues are necessary

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if the memories are to stop the plagues & probably even prevent them does it mean that they are prohibited to be proposed to the lake time to time in order to make the day of the lake to happen?

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:14 AM

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I rather think that "The Great Day of the Lake" is that periodic day when someone can ascend to an higher form of consciousness. I think that the Lake always accepts memories as a "little sacrifice", but the great day requires a bigger one (just think to the giant owl-shaped pyre which misteriously appears: it is directly linked with the sacrifice of a human)

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Or maybe, something more: that human must be the firstborn in order to trigger the enlightenment

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:16 AM

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BTW

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Jacob's sacrifice did not bring his memories to the lake

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at least not all of them

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as Mr. Owl he's preserved his personality

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& personality is memories

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:18 AM

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astral frost I rather think that "The Great Day of the Lake" is that periodic day when someon...

If the day is periodic that means that the plagues should also be

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I'm not sure if this is the case

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:21 AM

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Idk if it is periodic, we can assume it happened other times before Paradise

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Because of this

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:22 AM

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I agree

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:22 AM

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I think that the great day and the plagues are not linked

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In Paradise they happened together

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:23 AM

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but this very picture indicates that Darkness is connected to it

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it comes before the day

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:26 AM

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That's true

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So

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I should revise that theory

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:28 AM

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I guess we should do that together

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:29 AM

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Is there the possibility that the Eilanders caused the plagues on purpose?

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:29 AM

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there always is

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:29 AM

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In order to arrive to the death of the firstborn, I mean

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:30 AM

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there is indeed. Just not sure if that's the case

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:30 AM

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Yes yes just a possibility

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:31 AM

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hmm

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remembering Paradox

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there's Caroline's book

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it forecasts the day of the lake

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as it did in Paradise

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but in Paradox it seems to be adapted to Dale

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the duality of one dying & one being enlightened is connected there to the vials

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:34 AM

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Yep

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The elixir, whatever it is (a drink or a process through memories), requires 2 people

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:36 AM

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I don't think that vials are representing the elixir

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rather a choice

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:41 AM

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What do you mean?

covert wyvern Feb 26, 2021, 9:41 AM

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I actually agree here^ Dale is presented with choices during the events of paradox,

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the vials probably symbolise the outcome of those choices.

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anyway that's all I have to say about that for now quirrelpeace

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:49 AM

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Yeah, that's what I mean

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But I see this choice being not about the short-term consequences

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I see it being about the elixir outcome

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One will find death, the other enlightenment & that depends on the vial you choose

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:52 AM

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Ok, but remember that the elixir was always the green one

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Both in Roots, Cave and Paradox movie secret ending

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:53 AM

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Paradox is not about the elixir itself

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:53 AM

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I know

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:53 AM

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The green vial is not the elixir

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:53 AM

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?

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:54 AM

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It's just represents Dale's self-sacrifice

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The blue one represents a sacrifice of Laura

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& the red one seems to be a try to escape the choice

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:55 AM

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Dale sacrifices himself by drinking the green vial and letting Laura finding the enlightenment

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:55 AM

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Yeah, but the green vial is not the elixir as only Dale drinks it

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:56 AM

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We also stated that the elixir is not always in the drink form

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Wait a moment

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:56 AM

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astral frost We also stated that the elixir is not always in the drink form

This time it manifests via the golden cube

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:57 AM

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https://youtu.be/hqbgUOsRyUM

YouTube

Rusty Lake

The Green Vial | Paradox - A Rusty Lake Film [Secret Ending]

Thank you for watching the secret ending of the Green Vial!
Find the ending of the Blue Vial in Chapter 2 of Cube Escape: Paradox:

iOS: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id1372021096
Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.com.RustyLake.CubeEscapeParadox
Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/909080/Cube_Escape_Paradox/
itch.i...

▶ Play video

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:57 AM

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Why do you show me this?

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 9:58 AM

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To point out that the green vial represents, at least, the effects of the green vial: Dale finds death, Laura finds enlightenment (as shown in the last scene)

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 9:59 AM

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I don't doubt that

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I completely agree

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 10:05 AM

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What I'm saying is that the other 2 vials (the blue and red one) don't represent a choice linked to the elixir. In fact, the blue and red vial continuosly trap Dale in the loop, while the green vial ending (Dale dies) and the Golden Cube ending (Dale lives) let him escape

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 10:07 AM

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I think otherwise. Blue vial makes Dale take active role in killing Laura, the red one - passive role. Either way she dies unless he kills himeslf. & escaping this loop alive is just comfirmation of this choice that features Laura's death

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 10:10 AM

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Interesting

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Oh I just thought something

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About Laura

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I mean, isn't she already dead while Dale is living Paradox?

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 10:11 AM

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She is

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 10:12 AM

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So why including her in the "elixir choice"?

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It would make sense if Laura was the one to be reborn (again)

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 10:13 AM

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She may be reborn if Dale chooses her

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She may even never die in the first place if we accept retroactive reality changes

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 10:13 AM

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Right

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Paradox is still strange to me

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 10:15 AM

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Paradise is the same case. Mr. Owl was talking about "a great sacrifice that helped him become something else"

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His own sacrifice would not grant him enlightenment

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But Caroline seems to be sacrificed as well

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Maybe in the bonfire before

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Maybe as a CS right then

astral frost Feb 26, 2021, 10:17 AM

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Totally

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Jakob became Mr Owl thank to his mother

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He was like pulled in the game

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 10:21 AM

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So we have another CS to either die in the past or dissolve

manic brook Feb 26, 2021, 7:07 PM

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astral frost I think that the great day and the plagues are not linked

I always thought the plagues were triggered by carolines death, and also the family took it as an opportunity to take advantage of jacob, but other than that the day of the lake and the plagues arent linked

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 7:07 PM

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manic brook I always thought the plagues were triggered by carolines death, and also the fam...

actually we don't know

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they may be connected to Caroline's death

manic brook Feb 26, 2021, 7:08 PM

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yea its just a theory

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 7:08 PM

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they may be connected to her memories that are meant to be proposed to the lake

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they may be connected to the certain time

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or all 3 from above

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 7:44 PM

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doesn't nicholas say something like "paradise has been suffering since your mother died"
it kind of implicates her death caused the plagues

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 7:45 PM

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he could lie with ease

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or these 2 events are not directly connected

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 7:46 PM

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since caroline was sacrificed instead of jakob maybe the lake did not like that sacrifice and demanded the firstborn anyway and that's why the plagues occurred

manic brook Feb 26, 2021, 7:58 PM

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yea. and i wouldn't count on a character lying unless it is proved

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:04 PM

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manic brook yea. and i wouldn't count on a character lying unless it is proved

even tho "since" is not "because of"

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the Darkness & Death of the firstborn are connected to the day of the lake & not to Caroline's death

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& her memories are the one to stop them

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so they also could be the reason

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:08 PM

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azure bay even tho "since" is not "because of"

of course not
but if something is the starting point of some other thing although it could just be a coincidence it is logical to consider the possibility of it being the cause first

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:12 PM

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talking about memories, they are definitely connected to Caroline's death

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lack of them could render the lake angry

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as it always requires them

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that could be why offering of them stops the plagues

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the thing is I don't understand why Caroline was sacrificed just recently

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it was 15 years since she saved Jacob after all

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:16 PM

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i assume they killed her to get Jacob back

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"Oh you would be a horrible son if you didnt come to the funerallll"

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:17 PM

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they could do that earlier, couldn't they?

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:17 PM

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its cult behaviour they manipulate you with your own family, i wont go into it much due to the mods being here

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but theres many many resources on the internet

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and well yeah they could´ve but hear me out, they "spared" her until the had to sacrifice her so they could spare themselves some time i assume the sacrifices have a era of "peace" for a lil while

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but this time it backfired

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:21 PM

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sounds complicated & a bit bold

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:21 PM

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or maybe the day of the lake just comes once every 15 years idk

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:22 PM

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i mean look they arent the smartest tools in the shed..XD

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:22 PM

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swift crag or maybe the day of the lake just comes once every 15 years idk

then she is expected to die 15 years ago or Jacob 15 years after

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:23 PM

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no look they sacrificed Caroline 15 years later it failed bcs thats not who the lake wanted

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so they called Jacob back,

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so they could sacrifice him but it was too late

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:24 PM

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the day of the lake - jakob is about to get sacrificed but caroline saves him
she sends him away in a boat
years pass
caroline does her research and crap
the other day of the lake draws near
the family "sacrifices" caroline to get jakob to come back
jakob arrives
they sacrifice him

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:24 PM

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vague imp no look they sacrificed Caroline 15 years later it failed bcs thats not who the ...

he was talking about connection of the sacrifice to the glorious day of the lake

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:24 PM

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i mean lmao in his defense Jacob didnt really die

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his mothers and his soul..fused

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:25 PM

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vague imp i mean lmao in his defense Jacob didnt really die

his body actually died. It was soul fusion

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:25 PM

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well i mean yeah..XD

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if youre burned you mostly turn into weed dust

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:26 PM

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swift crag 1) the day of the lake - jakob is about to get sacrificed but caroline saves him...

is Caroline's sacrifice is necessary to happen during the day of the lake?

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:26 PM

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Wait, caroline didnt die as soon the family discovered she helped jakob escape?

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:26 PM

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i dont think so?

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actually if i recall didnt they forge Caroline´s letter?

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:27 PM

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ebon aspen Wait, caroline didnt die as soon the family discovered she helped jakob escape?

she could. But her coffin was offered to the lake more recently

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:27 PM

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vague imp actually if i recall didnt they forge Caroline´s letter?

it was father's with news of Caroline's death

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:27 PM

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This 15 years gap seems like "oh you freed a important sacrifice and now the lake will be angry but nah go back to study your witchcraft"

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:27 PM

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ah alright sorry ig i recalled that wrong

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look they couldn´t have known that Caroline helped Jacob escape

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they could´ve suspected her, but they have no proof she actually did it you would hold on an escape in secret

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:28 PM

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she literally screamed "DON'T!! TAKE ME INSTEAD!!" at nicholas as he was trying to do his cultist job

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it was obvious she was gonna help him escape somehow

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he was like what 12

vague imp Feb 26, 2021, 8:29 PM

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Well again "take me instead" isnt the same as that

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:29 PM

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I think it's not that important whether they knew she helped him or not

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:31 PM

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I will replay all the series tomorrow and try to figure out a more understandable timeline for me, if you guys want to come along i will probably enter one of the voice channels here, it would be great to theorize with more people (and i always forget important stuff, so it would be a good help 🙃 )

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:32 PM

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ebon aspen I will replay all the series tomorrow and try to figure out a more understandabl...

what time is it going to be?

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:32 PM

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I have to spend a lot of time with paradise bc it seems to be the most confusing game alongside paradox

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:33 PM

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Roots, The White Door, CE Collection as a whole - all of them have their respective questions

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:34 PM

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azure bay what time is it going to be?

I dunno, maybe i even start playing tonight and change my sweet hours of sleep for getting chills every time a cs appears

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:34 PM

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then I'm not really sure If I'll be able to join

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:35 PM

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Dont worry man, im not obliging anyone

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:35 PM

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I'd really like :c

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:35 PM

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Just if anyone see me in a call, you know what im doing and will be welcome to come along

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:36 PM

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@swift crag are ya still here?

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:37 PM

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azure bay Roots, The White Door, CE Collection as a whole - all of them have their respect...

Yeah, specially twd for me, everybody sees it as a distant spin off but theres some good stuff added into the universe

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:39 PM

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ebon aspen Yeah, specially twd for me, everybody sees it as a distant spin off but theres s...

#🛖｜the-cabin

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:39 PM

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i am

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:40 PM

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swift crag i am

Is it necessary for Caroline to die during the day of the lake?

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:40 PM

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no i don't think so

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i mean she could have been used as a sacrifice with the family hoping the lake would accept it
but she could also just have been used as a lure for jakob

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:41 PM

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lure for Jacob...

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actually, that's an idea

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that doesn't even contradicts the possibility of the plagues being connected to the day of the lake

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as darkness is

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could the Darkness plague have different reasons than the previous ones?

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like the 1st 8 plagues are connected to Caroline's death or her memories & the last 2 to the holiday

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:48 PM

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The day of the lake darkness is different from the palgues one for me

swift crag Feb 26, 2021, 8:49 PM

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there's also the possibility that all of the plagues are somehow connected to the day of the lake/are an occurrence the eilanders are familiar with
i mean i wouldn't peg them for modest christians well-read in the bible
especially not david
yet david is the one to say "you took my favourite plague" once you tie his pants during the frogs
meaning he is familiar with the concept of plagues and he knows each of them - he even has a favourite
so he could either have read the biblical story of moses and the plagues
or the plagues are something native to paradise and they occur from time to time

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:49 PM

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I think the 15 gap between sacrifices is due to this, as the day of the lake is accompanied by the darkness (some astronomical event like an eclipse)

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:50 PM

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ebon aspen I think the 15 gap between sacrifices is due to this, as the day of the lake is ...

It could be but there's someting more. Sun disappears for the day & the moon turns red

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:51 PM

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If it was really a cult, would make sense as these events are always remembered by societies like the one it seems to exist in rl series

azure bay Feb 26, 2021, 8:51 PM

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ebon aspen If it was really a cult, would make sense as these events are always remembered ...

Magic is definitely involved

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 8:51 PM

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Ah for sure

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Dunno if the "bibbidy-bobbidy-boo" kind, but something supernatural happens

manic brook Feb 26, 2021, 9:24 PM

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ebon aspen Just if anyone see me in a call, you know what im doing and will be welcome to c...

what timezone are you in

ebon aspen Feb 26, 2021, 9:29 PM

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im from brazil, its gmt -3 if im not mistaken

manic brook Feb 26, 2021, 9:47 PM

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ok im -7 so its like almost 3pm here

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 12:12 AM

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So guys, i was testing the voice channel and i cant stream video on this server, so if someone want to join me in the journey through the series, invite me to some server of yours so i can stream and discuss with you

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Gonna start destroying sleep cycle now

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 4:17 AM

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ebon aspen So guys, i was testing the voice channel and i cant stream video on this server,...

I can in uhhhh like 45 min

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 4:28 AM

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No hurries XD

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Im at least one hour thinking about the 1st part of case 23 now, geez its messed up

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 4:40 AM

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You really don't sleep huh? And how do you mean?

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 4:42 AM

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its early here XD

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i dunno, the nature of the crime scene its waaay weird

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 4:43 AM

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Lol yea

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 4:44 AM

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its next to the room of seasons and someone seemed to been there before dale and set up the objects

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and the foreshadowing begins to get intense here

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 4:44 AM

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I'm interested keep explaining

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 4:50 AM

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like, even knowing that the devs are the "planning-everything" kind of people, for one of the oldest gaes in the series theres just too many things that are only explained way later

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 4:53 AM

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True

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 4:54 AM

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maybe its just bc playing as dale makes us actually investigate whats going on and the games before are shorter compared to c23, but i only played the 1st quarter of the game and already feel a lot of punches in the stomach due to this overdose of things i assume that are references

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 5:03 AM

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Have you played all of the collection already?

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 5:04 AM

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yeah, all the series actually

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im replaying the entire thing to see stuff i missed in my rushed gameplays and create more solid theories

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and duuude, i missed A LOT of stuff (and getting paranoid thinking that every single shit matters)

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i was planning to play everything on this weekend, but it seems that i will need way more time to get everything, prollly will finish c23 today and gonna sleep to put my ideas in place

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 5:12 AM

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I feel you 100%
I've been replaying them a bunch lately, I just did paradise over the last two days. I'll run through it again with you if you haven't already
Also where can I look at what all the terms are? I'm seeing a lot of new words and I don't know what they're referring to

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 5:14 AM

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i dunno if theres this sort of thing, but when i get confused with some term i usually ask for the person XD

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 5:15 AM

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Same lol

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 5:15 AM

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i was planning to make a rusty lake dictionary or anything like that, sometimes i dont understand even my own ideas

manic brook Feb 27, 2021, 5:17 AM

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That would be good tho

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 5:27 PM

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guys, the hotel was built on paradise island, right?

quartz obsidian Feb 27, 2021, 5:28 PM

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ebon aspen guys, the hotel was built on paradise island, right?

yep

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 5:28 PM

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thx!

crude horizon Feb 27, 2021, 8:04 PM

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Alright I don't know if this has been discussed before but, what if Dale first went to the white Door to get tested before Case 23? We see a very similar looking personality test in Paradox chapter two (one of the scraps of paper found for the chess puzzle).

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 8:05 PM

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dont think so, twd happens after c23, as bob have his memory of being at the police station and killing the cop

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the personality test prolly looks similar bc the manager of twd seems to be mr owl in his human form, so it wouldnt be a surprise to get the same thing

crude horizon Feb 27, 2021, 8:10 PM

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But it is possible that The White Door as a company existed before the game twd?

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 8:10 PM

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ah, very likely

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when bob got there a lot of other people was there already

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but dont think dale was a patient, he doesnt seem to know a shit about anything in c23, just what he got investigating laura's death

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and half the games wouldnt exist as mr owl would already get his hands on dale before

crude horizon Feb 27, 2021, 8:14 PM

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Maybe Dale going to the white door is how Mr.Owl found out about Dale's potential, not unlike Bob

covert wyvern Feb 27, 2021, 8:15 PM

#

that's unlikely given the letter Dale receives on his birthday

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 8:15 PM

#

covert wyvern that's unlikely given the letter Dale receives on his birthday

yeah, was going to talk about this rn

#

mr owl know dale since he is a child

crude horizon Feb 27, 2021, 8:16 PM

#

didn't he get that because of the whole change the future thing with the gold cube

covert wyvern Feb 27, 2021, 8:16 PM

#

I assume the letter did get delivered to him on his birthday but who knows right.

azure bay Feb 27, 2021, 8:17 PM

#

one of the patients in TWD was taken in in 1960

#

But I don't think Dale had serious business with TWD

#

His evaluation in Paradox was seemingly happening in Paradox & not outside

#

he was following RL:MH&F program mentioned in The Cave

crude horizon Feb 27, 2021, 8:26 PM

#

maybe he was suggested the RL:MH&F program during his at twd?

azure bay Feb 27, 2021, 8:27 PM

#

I don't think so

#

this program is for enlightenment

#

he started his journey towards it after Case 23

#

he was evaluated somewhere tho

#

but It's not necessary to be TWD

#

In The Mill Mr. Owl said that he found Dale only in 1972

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 10:50 PM

#

is there any clue about who is the corrupted soul we play as in roots?

#

i started thinking it was william but he reincarnates as laura is born

azure bay Feb 27, 2021, 10:53 PM

#

We play as William

#

& try hard to be reborn as Laura

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 10:55 PM

#

good, i was confused bc when we talk with rose via ouija she doesnt see us, and everyone seems to be able to see the CSs

ebon aspen Feb 27, 2021, 11:21 PM

#

just got the part where crow calls us "brother", this vice of asking things too early always was a problem XD

azure bay Feb 28, 2021, 10:00 AM

#

I think that a CS can be seen by humans only if it wants to

#

with only few exception: also by those who's able to see the unseen (like Ida) & by those who's close to death (like Emma & Leonard)

ebon aspen Feb 28, 2021, 3:49 PM

#

guys, do someone here have a list of things not found in the main games? like secret codes from one game to another and so

#

im too lazy to go after this XD im playing paradox rn and theres a lot of this kind of shit

azure bay Feb 28, 2021, 3:51 PM

#

for paradox we have just a save code & a phone number

#

the former is achieved by finding the owl mask in Paradise

#

the latter is from Case 23 excluding 0

ebon aspen Feb 28, 2021, 4:12 PM

#

i remember the code for bday and the box in cave, but prolly theres a lot of other stuff

hollow comet Feb 28, 2021, 4:47 PM

#

there's also a melody you can play in HB which you get in Theatre

ebon aspen Feb 28, 2021, 4:48 PM

#

oh yes, but i think its just a clue for an achievement in harvey's box, no?

manic brook Feb 28, 2021, 10:54 PM

#

Is there a point where Harvey has a regular person head?

ebon aspen Feb 28, 2021, 10:55 PM

#

in hotel he is a being like mr owl or mr crow

#

but for now he is like the biggest mystery in all this stuff

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 6:35 AM

#

Some ppl do think hes the night club guard in the white door

small sigil Mar 1, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

guys i want to ask that why someone needs to feed the lake with memories?

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

small sigil guys i want to ask that why someone needs to feed the lake with memories?

It could be one of the reasons for biblical plagues being unleashed

small sigil Mar 1, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

ohh icic

#

thx!!

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 11:30 AM

#

vague imp Some ppl do think hes the night club guard in the white door

The guard looks more like mr bat or toad, as harvey can be seen at lvl 2

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 11:31 AM

#

well..XD i mean

#

i know something you dont but the mods will smite me if i speak of it

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 11:31 AM

#

But sure he is an employee at twd, he drives bob there

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 11:31 AM

#

if i say it i will be struck by lightning

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 11:32 AM

#

Dm me, nobody will know XD

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 11:32 AM

#

KittyGun

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 12:40 PM

#

vague imp i know something you dont but the mods will smite me if i speak of it

this may or may not mean anything

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 12:40 PM

#

it doesn't mean anything

#

disregard the information.

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 12:40 PM

#

maybe but Damy said cease.XD

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 12:41 PM

#

I prefer to think that the driver is just a human

#

Theo Hoorn is very likely to be just a human

#

& he had quite a high role

#

there is no sense in sending someone more powerful than human on a car just for patient delivery sake

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 12:44 PM

#

well i mean lmao ..XD just send a self driving car

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 12:51 PM

#

Now that i remembered... isnt harvey a female parrot?

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 12:55 PM

#

It's not that certain. Harvey is either a female parrot that changed her gender after rebirth (just like William did) but looks inaccurate (as females of her presumed species are to have red tails) or it's a male parrot that brings eggs by magic of the lake or smth

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 12:55 PM

#

Harvey's gender is yes

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 1:01 PM

#

Im waiting for another game with harvey as main character, box creates more doubts than answers and hotel for me is just owl using him to kill his family

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 1:02 PM

#

what kind of answers are you expecting to get?

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 1:03 PM

#

Why is he so important

#

In box a cs was taking him to the lake; he is one of the hybrids; and laura made a statement in paradox about his egg being the start of everything (maybe its just a reference to seasons, but the more i think about it the more i expect smth big for him)

#

Not to mention his cameos in almost all the games

#

I dont think he is just another of owl's pawns

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 1:09 PM

#

In HB he was taken to the lake by Laura as she's the owner

#

via a transportation service

#

& CS was just to kill the parrot

#

Harvey was asura indeed, but after his death he became an animal parrot

#

we don't really know how did Harvey become asura in the 1st place

#

as before that he was seen just as a parrot once again

#

but it's unclear yet whether he was just living at the time or came there from the future

azure bay Mar 1, 2021, 1:12 PM

#

azure bay we don't really know how did Harvey become asura in the 1st place

so this question seems not that important

manic cedar Mar 1, 2021, 3:19 PM

#

You know there are also people with female reproductive system who dress in a masculine way irl, it’s not that weird

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 5:19 PM

#

azure bay It's not that certain. Harvey is either a female parrot that changed her gender ...

what's harvey's exact species

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 5:27 PM

#

The most similar one is the grey parrot (in c23 we only have the "psittacus" clue, which names the gender of a bunch of parrot species)

#

But harvey have some green feathers, so we dont really know

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 5:30 PM

#

yeah that's what i thought it ain't really specified

#

also harvey is a trans icon 😳💅

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 5:34 PM

#

Stopping to think all the hybrids are trans icons 😳 😳 😳

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 5:52 PM

#

mr owl is enby don't @ me 😏😏💅

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 5:53 PM

#

while I appreciate the sentiment discussing characters' inherent gender / sexuality isn't exactly worth theorising about.

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 5:53 PM

#

damn why not

#

but okay

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 5:54 PM

#

it

#

s probably not relevant to the lore.

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:54 PM

#

are most of the characters just fictional?

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 5:54 PM

#

except for van gogh, yes.

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:55 PM

#

no,

#

i mean inside the game reality

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 5:55 PM

#

uhm Inside the game I think all characters are real?

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

Like, if the characters are someone's mind invention?

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

yes

#

thats what im asking

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

thats ..XD

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

bc there are a lot of references in the games

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

rusty lake is just a TTRPG

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

from real places

#

like the owl nest

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

Well, its the devs' mind invention XD

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

or "the lost soul club"

covert wyvern Mar 1, 2021, 5:57 PM

#

well those are just places within the universe, probably.

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:57 PM

#

i know

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 5:57 PM

#

A lot of fictional works have real places as location, this doesnt mean much

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:57 PM

#

i dont mean it that way

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 5:58 PM

#

When thats the case, almost everytime its to tell a story that could happen in the real world

jade leaf Mar 1, 2021, 5:58 PM

#

maybe the characters in the game

#

made up the "bizzare" characters

#

like,

#

dale made up mr owl

#

from the "owl nest" cafe

#

even if subsconciusly

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 6:04 PM

#

Uh, mr owl exists since the 1700's (as jakob/caroline)

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:32 PM

#

Guys, what do you think about animals' consciousness? I mean, can they think like Humans?

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

#

i mean, i feel like thats pretty much confirmed?

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:33 PM

#

Idk

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

they dress like humans, they act like humans, they live in houses like humans.etc

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

No no

#

I'm not talking about Asuras (the hybrids)

#

I was referring to the real animals

vague imp Mar 1, 2021, 10:34 PM

#

oh

#

nevermind then.XD

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:35 PM

#

Idk if Samsara has a particular vision of it

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 10:35 PM

#

i don't think they do

#

it might have been different for william
it was more of a limbo for him
he was still on his path to enlightenment

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:36 PM

#

In that case, Harvey would have become just a normal parrot, once he was "killed" by the guests

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

like he wasn't being reborn as these animals it was more like stages
milestones

#

but he wasn't killed he escaped in his parrot form?

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

swift crag like he wasn't being reborn as these animals it was more like stages milestones

William became a Corrupted Soul and then a new Human

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 10:37 PM

#

yes

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

swift crag but he wasn't killed he escaped in his parrot form?

Yes, I mean that he could think when he was a hybrid

#

And then he could no more

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

i'm not sure i follow

astral frost Mar 1, 2021, 10:38 PM

#

Ok so

#

At first, Harvey was an Asura, AKA DemiGod, AKA Asura

#

Such as Mr Owl, Mr Crow, Mr Toad, Mr Bat

#

And the Guests

#

When the Guests' Corrupted Souls escaped from the Hotel, they killed Harvey, who was transformed by Mr Owl into a normal parrot

swift crag Mar 1, 2021, 10:40 PM

#

ah okay yes

ebon aspen Mar 1, 2021, 11:43 PM

#

Was harvey really killed after hotel? I mean, he doesnt reincarnate nor anything like that, looked more like a completion of the transformation so he could escape from the cs

#

And taking the hook: the elixir is not perfect, right? Aldous and jakob seem to need it from time to time, not to mention that in paradox dale sees the future of mr owl as a fish head, so it means he would die?

#

Also i really like this part, dale having his phobia confronting his enemy in a fish form, nice touch 😊

astral frost Mar 2, 2021, 1:09 AM

#

ebon aspen Was harvey really killed after hotel? I mean, he doesnt reincarnate nor anything...

At least, he has been reincarnated

azure bay Mar 2, 2021, 8:31 AM

#

swift crag but he wasn't killed he escaped in his parrot form?

Mr. Owl gave him his animal form. You can see it in fraction of a second before the light beam strikes the hotel

swift crag Mar 2, 2021, 8:31 AM

#

yeah i figured but thanks

azure bay Mar 2, 2021, 8:32 AM

#

np & sorry if I'm annoying

swift crag Mar 2, 2021, 10:49 AM

#

no no it's cool

shell crow Mar 6, 2021, 4:35 AM

#

I need some help. WHAT THE HECK IS THE STORY IN THESE GAMES. I am extremely lost.

ebon aspen Mar 6, 2021, 4:58 AM

#

I found this reddit post a time ago, helped me to fill some gaps ^^

#

But there is a lot of yet unexplained things that we dont know when will be clearer

#

But i reeeeeeally recommend playing the games and get the details, i did it last week and it was great

gloomy escarp Mar 6, 2021, 5:13 AM

#

shell crow I need some help. WHAT THE HECK IS THE STORY IN THESE GAMES. I am extremely lost...

for me the game that really helped me with the story was the cave, it's difficult until then (especially if you didn't play the premium games, i skipped them on my first playthrough) but there's a lot of details revealed in that one that make things easier to understand. have you played that one yet?

vague imp Mar 6, 2021, 7:33 AM

#

Serious
If you can eat Harveys eggs what would they taste like?

crude horizon Mar 6, 2021, 11:24 AM

#

vague imp Serious If you can eat Harveys eggs what would they taste like?

repressed memories

crude horizon Mar 6, 2021, 12:16 PM

#

they're a little salty

proper eagle Mar 7, 2021, 5:16 AM

#

Probably tastes like cubed

manic brook Mar 10, 2021, 7:59 PM

#

Let's talk about the moths/ bugs

#

What

swift crag Mar 10, 2021, 8:49 PM

#

what about them

ebon aspen Mar 10, 2021, 9:01 PM

#

Lovely insects i would say

nocturne yarrow Mar 10, 2021, 10:54 PM

#

I am deeply confused that we haven't seen a single moth-headed character yet

swift crag Mar 10, 2021, 11:43 PM

#

could be because all of the characters are either mammals or birds

proper eagle Mar 11, 2021, 12:42 AM

#

What the hell is up with the shrimps

nocturne yarrow Mar 11, 2021, 12:52 AM

#

all the real tough questions today, dang

#

I think rusty lake just has a bug/arachnid infestation

#

My actual thoughts on the moths and shrimp- I think the moths are symbolic of corrupted souls and show up in their presence, and the shrimp are just denizens of the lake, though I think their prevalence is intended to deepen the absurdism of the RL world.

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 2:12 AM

#

When i was gathering info for theories, i noticed the shrimp/shell/fish/moths appearances

#

The fish is related to dale's fear, but the other things are up to know what they mean

#

Maybe we have clues but i havent looked to deep into it XD

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 7:44 AM

#

I've herd about several symbolic meanings here

#

shrimp could be a tendency to go with the flow

#

shell could be a reference to the golden ratio & signify thinking outside a box

#

moths could mean several things

#

in Dale's case it's either drive for the enlightenment (just like insect's drive for the light) or his future transformation

#

black moths specifically are usually perceived as a bad omen as they are associated with death, darkness & grief

#

alternatively, they could mean mystery & passion, but I think the latter is unlikely in the context of RL

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:28 AM

#

ebon aspen And taking the hook: the elixir is not perfect, right? Aldous and jakob seem to ...

From what i understood about the elixir, they need to drink it to keep their semi animal forms, but they dont have the 50/50?

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 10:29 AM

#

It's all uncertain

#

"The full elixir" that Owl mentions could mean either the ultimate formula or the old long lost formula (they are drinking just an extract from a dog that drank the elixir a bit later then Aldous)

#

a friend of mine thinks that it's stupid on their behalf to lose the old formula

#

& the extract is just to overcome that 50/50 rule

#

I disagree with him

#

I tend to believe that this rule requires a sacrifice in order to give one a spiritual boost

#

& once that spiritual boost is achieved no more sacrifice required

#

I also tend to believe that there's only one elixir formula for each case

#

many think otherwise because Dale is expected to become a god after using it while everyone else are just demigods

#

My explanation is a different kind of that spiritual boost I mentioned above

#

In Dale's case it has a greater effect because of his effort in preparing his mind

#

Firstly, the detective overcomes his unprocessed trauma

#

Secondly, "reaches a higher state of consciousness" by learning about samsara

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:40 AM

#

I mean, the elixir recipe aint that hard, its just... egg

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 10:41 AM

#

real lantern I mean, the elixir recipe aint that hard, its just... egg

Caroline's formula is more difficult & William's seems to be just a reference to the Alchemy game

#

so I don't believe it

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:41 AM

#

Hahah im just kidding lmao

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 10:42 AM

#

))))

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 11:10 AM

#

ebon aspen The fish is related to dale's fear, but the other things are up to know what the...

Oh and i forgot, it seems that mr owl will become a fish in the future (dunno if will actually reincarnate or its just samsara stuff like william had to go thru)

covert wyvern Mar 11, 2021, 11:11 AM

#

maybe it's a state of de evolution yeet

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 11:12 AM

#

ebon aspen Oh and i forgot, it seems that mr owl will become a fish in the future (dunno if...

I tend to believe in the former cause SR was brutally forced in the lore & brings more of confusion than usual

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 11:12 AM

#

Mr owl is so friendly, he just wanted dale to overcome his fears so he showed up as a fish 🥰 🥰

astral frost Mar 11, 2021, 11:57 AM

#

azure bay a friend of mine thinks that it's stupid on their behalf to lose the old formula

Did they ever have it?

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 11:58 AM

#

Caroline had listed it in her book & then William & Aldous had their journals. It wasn't that difficult to obtain the formula in one way or another unless they were late

astral frost Mar 11, 2021, 11:59 AM

#

I agree with you, but I also must say that Mr Owl and Mr Crow never owned a book about the secret recipe

#

The book in the Cave shows why they need Laura/William

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:01 PM

#

astral frost The book in the Cave shows why they need Laura/William

this can be interpreted in 2 ways. Either they don't know the formula & William's memories are to help here or these memories are the only way to merge the elixir into the golden cube

#

never the less their need to drink that disgusting extract shows that they have a reason not to drink the elixir itself

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

Mr owl didnt see the original formula thru caroline's cubes?

astral frost Mar 11, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

So it means they still can't re-create the elixir

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:02 PM

#

ebon aspen Mr owl didnt see the original formula thru caroline's cubes?

perhaps. perhaps not

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

astral frost So it means they still can't re-create the elixir

or they have another reason not to do so

astral frost Mar 11, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

It's possible that Mr Owl and Mr Crow didn't succeed in using Caroline's formula

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:03 PM

#

Yeah, i thought that all this dale shit was bc they know he is important for a good elixir

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:05 PM

#

Jacob was just a soul (uncorrupted but still a soul) he could not remember what was happening then.

#

when Caroline's memories were merging together

#

his memories of her memories before then could be lost to the lake

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

Im kinda lost on names, who is jacob again? Lmao

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

azure bay Jacob was just a soul (uncorrupted but still a soul) he could not remember what ...

So if this is the case he wouldnt remember anything

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:06 PM

#

real lantern Im kinda lost on names, who is jacob again? Lmao

Owl's past-self

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

Oh, thanks

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

ebon aspen So if this is the case he wouldnt remember anything

maybe not everything but exclusively the things that happened between his lifes

#

plus something lost to the lake

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:07 PM

#

azure bay maybe not everything but exclusively the things that happened between his lifes

Meh, it would be too much convenience

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:09 PM

#

either way he could get his hands on the Vanderboom formula if he wanted to

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:09 PM

#

Its way more likely that he knows how to produce a perfect elixir and everything else than "oopsie i forgot the thing i want most"

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:11 PM

#

ebon aspen Its way more likely that he knows how to produce a perfect elixir and everything...

not knowing the formula is a freaking good reason for not making the elixir

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:12 PM

#

Ok, lets say that he got amnesia

#

The whole quest for the golden cube and all the rest is just for knowing wtf is going on?

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:13 PM

#

The golden cube is for Dale to take the lead

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

Dale SURE dont know how to make the elixir

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:14 PM

#

I think that the cube is a manifestation of the elixir of a kind

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:15 PM

#

I got your point dude, but for me this specific memory loss its just too convenient, it dont get into my head XD

#

Do you have a doc or anything like this going deeper into this thoery

#

?

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:16 PM

#

I don't completely understand you

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

ebon aspen I got your point dude, but for me this specific memory loss its just too conveni...

I understand. It's seems to be bullshit. For now this is the only semi-understandable reason. We hell need to find more

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:17 PM

#

One thing that confuses me is the ritual with the 10 sacrifices, like, in paradise, the ritual is performed and the guy becomes mr owl, and then, the vanderbooms perform the ritual and william gets reborn, that realy doesnt add up in my smooth brain lmao

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:18 PM

#

real lantern One thing that confuses me is the ritual with the 10 sacrifices, like, in paradi...

just different rituals. One is for human->asura transition, the other is for CS->human

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:19 PM

#

azure bay I don't completely understand you

Basically for me the idea of mr owl losing only his most precious memory (that is worst if we assume that caroline is somehow merged with him) its too convenient considering he made a mastermind plan , so i asked if you have a text document or something like that which could help me to understand this theory, i would like to read even if you say that albert did nothing wrong XD

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:20 PM

#

ebon aspen Basically for me the idea of mr owl losing only his most precious memory (that i...

for now I have none

#

My guess is that Owl's begun scheming for his heir pretty lately

#

maybe in the beginning he didn't understand that his time was still limited

#

but then I have no convincing idea why he contacted the alchemist brothers

#

because their formula was "lost" as well

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:23 PM

#

Isnt related with any theory, but the dog was whose "counterpart"? I dont remember now santa_crow

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

The dog is just a dog im pretty sure

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

azure bay but then I have no convincing idea why he contacted the alchemist brothers

To get the homunculi XD

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

real lantern The dog is just a dog im pretty sure

I think this is because animals are too spiritually low to be enlightened

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:24 PM

#

real lantern The dog is just a dog im pretty sure

Maaaan, it poops eternal life

#

He drank the elixir and someone died, i want to remeber who was

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:25 PM

#

Yeah, because james was a little bitch boi and gave doggo the elixir

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:25 PM

#

Oh james yeah

#

Thx ^^

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:25 PM

#

Haha no problem

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:26 PM

#

Theres so much going on after in roots that i dont remember the beginning XD

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:26 PM

#

I just remember that part because i found it super funny lmao

#

Like, he gices it to the dog, the dog drinks it and is ok, and then he drinks it and we just hear the gurguling sound bit😆

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:28 PM

#

All i recall was the doggo cameo on cave, its just the noicest boi

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 12:29 PM

#

Its like the goose of golden eggs, but you feed it human meat and it shits immortality

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 12:29 PM

#

Fair trade

crude horizon Mar 11, 2021, 2:01 PM

#

shits immortality

gloomy escarp Mar 11, 2021, 6:53 PM

#

not sure if i'm in the right channel for this (i'll move if i'm wrong) but- is the body that you fish out of the water in the lake supposed to be a specific person? or is it just a random dude

covert wyvern Mar 11, 2021, 6:54 PM

#

this is a fine thing to theorise about ;p

gloomy escarp Mar 11, 2021, 6:58 PM

#

it made me wonder upon replaying the lake, because given that it turns into a corrupted soul when you click on it, i would assume that it might be a specific person who had their memories extracted? or if that's not true i suppose the lake is just a pretty weird place in general lmao

stark oriole Mar 11, 2021, 7:24 PM

#

i've always thought about it as an abdutee that was used to maintain the lake at some point-meaningless and discarded after being used up

#

of course, the body type kind of matches Jakob's brother. I can't think of anyone else it could be right now that we have linked to the lake

#

But maybe that's what wound up happening to frank or whatever the other guy in his generation was

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 7:36 PM

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The body is baited by the shrimp head? I cant remember

#

But yeah, prolly it has none/very little relevance for the bigger plot, its not like the cs that comes after laura in the end of the game

#

More like a jumpscare-sake npc who gives us a bloody apple

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 7:39 PM

#

hm...

#

this jumpscare is very unfit considering the lore

#

I'm not really sure how to explain it

#

is it a part of the general law of corruption?

#

is it an exception?

#

is it Laura's hallucination?

#

or just an unimportant early detail that was retconned?

#

I guess, I should just try to think through all these possibilities

#

or we should

#

if at least someone is interested

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 7:52 PM

#

I wouldnt say retconned or forgot, the "law of the lake" things seems more the case

#

But again, either way i think it isnt relevant

#

If we consider every little detail we would spend hours here talking about how the chemical composition of the lake drives people crazy and so on, at least i think this way

#

I mean, we have a lot of more important things to know XD

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 7:57 PM

#

I think that corruption mechanics are pretty important

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 9:02 PM

#

Its one of their more early games right? I would just chalk it up as "not having the full lore in their heads and just trying to have fun" lmao

gloomy escarp Mar 11, 2021, 9:14 PM

#

i did think of jakob's brother as a slight possibility as well? but i do agree that it's probably not meant to be him, just a scare they came up with

#

i just wasn't sure if there was like... a universally accepted explanation that i was missing

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 9:33 PM

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Yeah, if its someone important its prolly one of the eilanders, i dont remember a vanderboom or any other person drowning in the lake and/or becoming corrupted

#

Also the vdbs had their graveyard, so its unlikely to be one of them

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:02 PM

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Man, im lost in the lore, who were the eilanders again?

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 10:03 PM

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real lantern Man, im lost in the lore, who were the eilanders again?

Paradise cultists

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:03 PM

#

We should have a bot that lists members of important famylies lmao

#

@azure bay thanks

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 10:07 PM

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real lantern We should have a bot that lists members of important famylies lmao

Roots have the vanderbooms family tree, the eilanders are just mr owl and his creepy relatives who got killed by him

#

Dude i wonder how christmas was in their houses

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:07 PM

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I mean yeah, a bot would be overkill lmao

nocturne yarrow Mar 11, 2021, 10:08 PM

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A bot might flood stuff, but a "basic info repository" channel could be a good resource

real lantern Mar 11, 2021, 10:09 PM

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Yeah, my idea was, a bot that DM's yiu the info

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So you get here and say "!heritage" or something like that and you get a DM listing the characters and their familys

azure bay Mar 11, 2021, 10:12 PM

#

I was going to write down some bullshit about certain CS being not materialistic e.g. leaving behind their former physical bodies, but suddenly realised that it was an actual physical body going corrupted-ish & then I've got an epiphany. I think, I've found a lore-friendly answer that fits some observations of mine

#

We know that there are different forms to be reborn as

#

We know for sure at least the majority of them

#

But we don't really know what happens between lives & how much time it takes

#

For example we know that Laura died & got corrupted

#

But her corruption was caused by Mr. Crow

#

What would her form be without his interference?

#

& how much time would it take to get there? Obviously, enough for Mr. Crow to screw this process up

#

The same case with Harvey

#

He was killed by the CS

#

& Mr. Owl had enough time to give him a new life as a normal parrot

#

Mr. Owl himself has seemingly appeared because Caroline took a moment to catch his soul after his death as Jacob & perform the enlightenment ritual

#

Even Eilanders

#

The age of each individual hotel guest was revealed on the official blog

#

If the info isn't retconned it could mean that they had a lot of time before being reborn as demigods

#

So my idea is that this drowned body is on its way to rebirth (presumably, as a corrupted soul)

#

It takes long because there is no magic to make it happen more quickly

#

No cube extraction, no rituals

gloomy escarp Mar 11, 2021, 10:28 PM

#

ooh that's interesting

ebon aspen Mar 11, 2021, 11:44 PM

#

Yeah, sure the reincarnation isnt instantaneous, roots is about this after all

#

But william, despite having his soul corrupted, had his body remaining intact

#

But the idea of trying to know how the reincarnation process can happen (in its different ways besides the samsara thing) is fun tho

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 2:13 AM

#

azure bay The age of each individual hotel guest was revealed on the official blog

Completely missed it XD

#

Found it

#

There's just a little problem

#

They all have different ages

#

This means (if we believe in those infos), that demi-god age is counted starting from their enlightenment

#

(since Ms Pigeon is younger than Mr Boar, while Gerard is Margaret's son)

#

And this would lead to the conclusion that the Eilanders didn't reach enlightenment in that famous event (the day of the Lake), but in different times

#

Possible, for sure

#

The other possibilty is a retcon

#

Very likely XD

nocturne yarrow Mar 12, 2021, 3:49 AM

#

I feel like it would just make more sense if the hotel guests aren't the Eilanders, because the Eilanders sure as hell would've become enlightened at the end of Paradise, not anytime else.

ebon aspen Mar 12, 2021, 4:51 AM

#

All the evidences point to the eilanders being the guests
I mean, why would mr owl invite, kill them and get their cubes?

#

And they didnt become enlightened as far as i remember, they turn into hybrids and after into css

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 7:05 AM

#

astral frost And this would lead to the conclusion that the Eilanders didn't reach enlightenm...

They could be promised the enlightenment after death

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 7:07 AM

#

ebon aspen And they didnt become enlightened as far as i remember, they turn into hybrids a...

Becoming asura or deva in RL seemingly means enlightenment. What's more, Samsara Room opens a possibility that any transition to a higher form could be called enlightenment

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 7:10 AM

#

nocturne yarrow I feel like it would just make more sense if the hotel guests *aren't* the Eilan...

Guests are Eilanders but as long as we did not see them changing their forms we can't be sure whether they did it right then or later

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 7:46 AM

#

Totally agree

#

What do you think about their relationship with Mr Owl?

#

To me, it's still a bit strange that they didn't recognize the island, at least

#

It's possible that they didn't recognize Jakob because they didn't knew he was enlightened too

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 8:02 AM

#

Laura didn't directly remember her past as William

#

I think this is also the case with the guests

#

I don't believe that Jacob's ritual gave them boost

#

I mean not the one with Caroline & her memories

#

I tend to think that they've traded Jacob to the lake & that's how they eventually become asuras

#

This different way seems to be inferior to the elixir one. At least because Caroline was hiding her formula from Eilanders & Nicolas was eager to find it

#

So the effect could be different as well

#

@astral frost

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 8:36 AM

#

True

#

I said that because of Mr Owl

#

At least, he seems remembering his past as a Human

#

But also Mr Crow is aware of his past relationship with William

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 8:39 AM

#

for now these are seemingly the only 2 (Harvey could be the 3d) who remember their past

#

what's more, we've seen them still having their human forms

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 8:41 AM

#

azure bay what's more, we've seen them still having their human forms

A difference between them and the Guests

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 8:41 AM

#

I think so, but still unsure

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 8:41 AM

#

Even if we could think that the Guests also suffered of "Human regression"

#

But they died before we could see that event

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 8:44 AM

#

I tend to think that CS & demigods may have more similarities than we think

#

death isn't enough neither isn't required to become corrupted nor enlightened. And you may or may not preserve your personality & even body

#

for some that's the reason to think that both of these forms are not as fundamental as human or animal & they are just alterations

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 8:50 AM

#

Right

#

but what about the masks in Paradise ending?

#

are they really related to the future form of the Eilanders?

#

or they are just a way to let us know they will become the Guests?

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 8:52 AM

#

these are 2 different ways to review the games: from inside & outside the lore

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 8:53 AM

#

astral frost or they are just a way to let us know they will become the Guests?

this is definitely a valid answer outside the lore. Maybe the only one

#

The problem with answers inside the lore is that we usually can't be sure which one is right & if one even exists in the 1st place

#

but as long as we're discussing the lore, I prefer to assume that there always is an answer inside

#

In Eilander's case I see 2 possibilities

#

The masks are the cause of their asura forms

#

Both the masks & asura forms have a common cause

#

but as long as there's no evidence these 2 versions may be developed exclusively on speculations

#

at least for now

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:03 AM

#

many of our theories are composed of speculations XD

#

because of the surrealistic nature of the games

#

it's possible (as someone thought, I don't remember his/her name) that the Guests are archetypes

#

and some people periodically own those forms

#

something like aot

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:06 AM

#

astral frost many of our theories are composed of speculations XD

the best of theories rely on facts or at least on certain ways to interpret these fact. Here we don't really have any of these

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:08 AM

#

yes yes, I was just saying that theorising about games like Rusty Lake's ones is more difficult, since many narrative elements are surreal

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:09 AM

#

I think this is not the main problem

#

this surrealism brings in a liberty of interpretation, yes

#

but there are things that are overlooked

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:11 AM

#

totally agree

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:11 AM

#

for example, the story between Jacob's depart & return is very difficult to theorize on

#

there are so little facts that they don't create a definitive picture

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:12 AM

#

yep

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:12 AM

#

some even seem not to fit together at all

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:13 AM

#

in fact I'm always conflicted about many theories and how to formulate them

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:13 AM

#

in what way?

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:15 AM

#

I always swing between "hard fantasy theories" and thinking that there won't be a logical answer for everything (also because of some inaccuracies in the story)

#

I tend to prefer the first one (like you)

#

but I'm not still convinced devs will follow this path

#

even if they are creating a strong connection between the games

#

it's the same thing for Twin Peaks, for example

#

there are many gigantic, logical and interesting theories about how that universe works, linking all the events, but there's always something missing, something lacking

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:21 AM

#

At least David Lynch was disprooving some of theories

#

Here we have a complete radio silence

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

XD

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:23 AM

#

Except for some rare examples of revealing guest's age or publishing timeline overview

#

& even those are not certain anymore because of retcon possibilities

#

For example, we can not be sure anymore if late chaptera of Case 23 take place in 1972

#

Just because certain dates didn't survive the rerelease

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:25 AM

#

we can also think about some Roots dates

#

they were changed after the release

#

because they were wrong in the timeline

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:26 AM

#

astral frost because they were wrong in the timeline

Which timeline?

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:27 AM

#

the Roots' one itself

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:27 AM

#

Ah

#

I get it now

#

At least these mistakes were officially admitted

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

exactly

#

but there are still some errors to me

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:28 AM

#

& we don't really know if they actually are errors

#

Uncertainty once more

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

let's admit that the fact you can see the Guests through the windows in of James' levels is for the same reason we can see Mr Rabbit CS before his death

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

astral frost let's admit that the fact you can see the Guests through the windows in of James...

Not sure on that one

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:29 AM

#

but, for example, in the "graves" level, the one where Leonard find all the bones, the death dates are wrong

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:30 AM

#

azure bay Not sure on that one

me neither hahaha

#

all those elements make me think that there isn't a strong build-up of the narrative universe

#

or, at least, there wasn't

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 9:34 AM

#

I tend to think that the narrative started to form some time during Harvey's box production

#

& since then it has been deepened on a go

#

Probably with some general ideas for future games

#

Like establishing the cube cult alongside with picture of Caroline in Case 23

#

Or making some possible clues of shell, fetus & heart being connected to Pheasant in that very Case 23 & confirming that a year later in Theatre

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 9:39 AM

#

agree

#

just think to Arles

#

it's still something like a spin-off

#

it was never setted in relation to the other games

#

and probably it will never be

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 10:18 AM

#

astral frost it was never setted in relation to the other games

Bear in mind that the protagonist sees familiar waters outside his window & mountains behind it . It could be the Rhone river tho but it looks a lot like Rusty Lake. Especially the one on the logo. Plus, recently he's somehow able to see the hotel there as well further supporting this visual connection

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 10:19 AM

#

Yes, it is connected but it doesn't add anything to the main lore

#

It's just a game to explain Van Gogh's death in RL universe

#

It's also possible that he had been reincarnated into a character we already know

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 10:21 AM

#

Some think on Bob as they both were red haired & shot themselves in the head

#

But for me it looks too far-fetched for now

#

RL like to connect their characters via similarities like that

#

But from the statistics pov this global connections between characters & places is almost improbable

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 10:24 AM

#

Just think to William hahaha

#

He was reborn as a woman

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 10:26 AM

#

Wdym?

wintry ridge Mar 12, 2021, 10:27 AM

#

is this a battle of theorists? lol

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 10:29 AM

#

No, just an opinion exchange with periodical points of agreement

covert wyvern Mar 12, 2021, 10:30 AM

#

if an argument ever gets hostile people catch mutes 😉

real lantern Mar 12, 2021, 10:43 AM

#

wintry ridge is this a battle of theorists? lol

Its more of a disscussion

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:21 AM

#

azure bay Wdym?

I mean that it's proved that Humans can reborn as Humans, but surely in a different form

#

William is no more William, but Laura

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 11:22 AM

#

everything is possible but is it plausible with our current data?

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:23 AM

#

I think so

#

It would fit also with the Samsara view of the reincarnation

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 11:23 AM

#

it definitely would

#

I'm just not sure if these similarities are enough to connect these 2 different people

#

my experience with RL shows that it may be enough

#

with different rabbits being the one

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:25 AM

#

Wait wait, I didn't say that Van Gogh was reborn as Bob

#

I was just extending this element to the human species

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 11:26 AM

#

astral frost I was just extending this element to the human species

like human is to be reborn as human?

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:26 AM

#

Nope

#

Something like "when you die, you won't reach your previous stage anymore"

#

So William became a CS

#

But then reaching the enlightenment didn't bring him back

#

He became "another person"

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 11:28 AM

#

astral frost Something like "when you die, you won't reach your previous stage anymore"

I believe in that just for every form corrupted including. I don't think that William's CS is equal to Laura's & so on

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:28 AM

#

Exactly

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 11:28 AM

#

but what's your message with van Gogh?

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:29 AM

#

Van Gogh faced a similar path to other characters in the series

#

He died and became a CS (maybe his Corruption was caused by some hard memory loss because of the alcoholism, maybe because of a big trauma)

#

And, at the end, he "faced his Corrupted Soul" (whatever it means)

#

So he obtained the fixed memory

#

And probably became something else

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 11:31 AM

#

I did not think about applying this newer interpretation to the older game. Bravo!

astral frost Mar 12, 2021, 11:31 AM

#

Hahahaha thanks!

#

Even if the old age of Arles is its main problem

#

For example, when Van Gogh shoots to his Corrupted Soul, we can't see anything trough the looking glass

#

So he could have been reincarnated in any stage (even if I would exclude the highest ones)

gloomy escarp Mar 12, 2021, 5:56 PM

#

something i think is really interesting about the whole tarot card part of rusty lake roots- the meanings of the cards from ida's tarot spread represent the members of the vanderboom family both literally and figuratively. for example, albert is represented by the devil, not just to represent his evil or malevolent, but also because the devil is a card about control (controlling others vs. being in control of your own life) and that relates closely to the voodoo dolls and how he imprisoned frank. also, emma is represented by the hanged man both because of how she died and because the hanged man card is meant to signify self-sacrifice which relates back to her search for frank after his disappearance

#

i'm certain there are more connections like these but i'd have to go back and check which other cards matched up to which other family members to be certain

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 5:57 PM

#

That's pretty interesting

#

I was ignorant about that stuff. Thx

gloomy escarp Mar 12, 2021, 5:59 PM

#

sure thing! i want to try to figure out the rest of the cards tonight because it's a neat little detail, but for now school awaits

vague imp Mar 12, 2021, 6:10 PM

#

High Priestess for Mary: he is mother and grandmother of every children, also I don't know, why that card is connected by Mary

ebon aspen Mar 12, 2021, 6:12 PM

#

gloomy escarp something i think is really interesting about the whole tarot card part of rusty...

Yeaaah, it gave me a stardust crusaders vibe of everyone having a personality linked to a tarot card
Its not so relevant for the bigger picture but was a nice touch, its fun to figure out who is who ^^

gloomy escarp Mar 12, 2021, 6:37 PM

#

vague imp High Priestess for Mary: he is mother and grandmother of every children, also I ...

i can't really think of a deeper meaning for the high priestess other than this because the high priestess is about inner wisdom and intuition, which doesn't really tie in with what we know about her (other than the fact that she had a very long life for being in the vanderboom family, but that's a stretch at best imo)

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 6:38 PM

#

Samuel was the priestess

#

Mary was chariot

gloomy escarp Mar 12, 2021, 6:41 PM

#

i thought samuel was death? i could be wrong though, that's just what it says on the wiki

azure bay Mar 12, 2021, 6:41 PM

#

He was death on Ida's table

#

In the lying game he was priestess

gloomy escarp Mar 12, 2021, 6:42 PM

#

ohhh okay

#

also, one more- i looked it up and rose is associated with the empress card, which makes sense because the empress is tied to the earth/fertility/motherhood and rose was instrumental in william's resurrection, helping bring him back into the world as a child

north pasture Mar 13, 2021, 12:16 AM

#

HEY SO I’m replaying Seasons

#

her prescription for Prozac is a 10 mg perscription

#

as someone who’s taken Prozac before, the VERY VERY starter dose of that is like 20-30 mgs

#

so THATS feeding into my theory of “she was going to a mental health institute controlled by The Lake (maybe the White Door itself?)” and they were giving her too low of a dose on purpose

#

bc fate and shit I guess idk. those fruity birds are an enigma

nocturne yarrow Mar 13, 2021, 3:47 AM

#

"those fruity birds are an enigma" is the best summary of the whole series I've ever heard

north pasture Mar 13, 2021, 4:14 AM

#

ITS RHE FACTS

#

mr owl is just that one John Mulaney bit of (imitating an old gay man) “you want me to do what?”

gloomy escarp Mar 13, 2021, 4:43 AM

#

oh god he really is

north pasture Mar 13, 2021, 5:22 AM

#

lads I’m the only moderator on right now

#

chaos time WHAT do you think the vials/elixers taste like

#

I’m thinking Gatorade but like. if it came directly out of a creature of some sort. like if u milked a fucked up Cube Cow

#

so it’s Chemicals but also hmmmmmmmm this could be a weird almond milk of some sort but also it’s Green

covert wyvern Mar 13, 2021, 7:43 AM

#

The elixirs, without a doubt, taste like your worst memories

astral frost Mar 13, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

I think it tastes like durian

covert wyvern Mar 13, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

if you have bad memories containing Durian, sure!

#

(I have no idea)

astral frost Mar 13, 2021, 1:39 PM

#

XD

prisma monolith Mar 13, 2021, 1:42 PM

#

I'm thinking that the taste foreshadows the effect, like if it tastes fruity, then you're immortal, but if it tastes like expired milk, then you're dead

ebon aspen Mar 13, 2021, 1:43 PM

#

covert wyvern if you have bad memories containing Durian, sure!

Once i got imprisoned in a box with a durian, good time it was

azure bay Mar 13, 2021, 1:45 PM

#

prisma monolith I'm thinking that the taste foreshadows the effect, like if it tastes fruity, th...

then you wouldn't swallow it if you were about to die

prisma monolith Mar 13, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

I meant as an aftertaste

azure bay Mar 13, 2021, 1:46 PM

#

ok maybe

north pasture Mar 13, 2021, 1:55 PM

#

hold I gotta Google what Durain is

#

OH THOSE LITTLE SPIKY THINGS

covert wyvern Mar 13, 2021, 1:56 PM

#

"Oh those little spiky things" - Belle, 2021

ebon aspen Mar 13, 2021, 2:36 PM

#

Best description of the year

azure bay Mar 13, 2021, 2:40 PM

#

I rather tend to think that so-called durian in Harvey's Box is actually a familiar cactus fruit

nocturne yarrow Mar 13, 2021, 2:54 PM

#

north pasture chaos time WHAT do you think the vials/elixers taste like

I’m thinking alcoholic fruit punch, with each bottle having a different flavor.

#

The straight-up elixir of life and death itself probably tastes like drinking a chunk of wood.

azure bay Mar 13, 2021, 2:55 PM

#

nocturne yarrow The straight-up elixir of life and death itself probably tastes like drinking a ...

I wonder what it should mean 🤨

north pasture Mar 13, 2021, 2:57 PM

#

nocturne yarrow I’m thinking alcoholic fruit punch, with each bottle having a different flavor.

rusty lake Christmas party, spike all the punch with elixir

#

BAHAHHAHAH WAIT. YOU AND A FRIEND DO A CHEERS AND WHEN YOU LOOK UP THEIR HEAD IS A GOOSE

#

and then you Die

real lantern Mar 13, 2021, 3:27 PM

#

I mean, considering the vanderboom's elixir is just the black egg in a vial my guess is its just like a chowder filled with moths

#

Because those black eggs more often than not are filled with moths

azure bay Mar 13, 2021, 3:34 PM

#

real lantern I mean, considering the vanderboom's elixir is just the black egg in a vial my g...

I tend to think that the secret Roots level was just a big reference to the Alchemy game with quite an illustrative story depiction. Caroline's formula is way more trust-worthy here

real lantern Mar 13, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

Yeah me too, its just that i thought about that joke with the elixir taste and jumped on it lmao

azure bay Mar 13, 2021, 3:35 PM

#

alrighty then

nocturne yarrow Mar 13, 2021, 4:52 PM

#

azure bay I tend to think that the secret Roots level was just a big reference to the Alch...

so are you saying that the elixir tastes like all the stuff that went into that formula? Because dang, that's gonna be an interesting cocktail.

grave stratus Mar 13, 2021, 4:52 PM

#

I'm imagining that they all taste like pure alcohol

#

Mostly based on the reactions we get, they don't necessarily taste good but you don't spit them out right away

#

So my best guess is they kinda just taste a little bitter

solid haven Mar 13, 2021, 10:40 PM

#

Maybe their taste is incomprehensible and indescribable.

prisma monolith Mar 14, 2021, 3:01 AM

#

Muddling on the whole reincarnation thing, but: we know that William's soul was transferred to Laura's physical body, and that we count the two as somewhat-separate beings. However, what if Laura's soul is coexisting with William's, therefore in constant spiritual turmoil, which is why she mentally became unstable in the latter part of her life?

#

Or at least, her being/identity somehow created a soul by itself sometime before CE Seasons

ebon aspen Mar 14, 2021, 4:56 AM

#

Not gonna enter into the religion field too deep, but almost every faith in reincarnation says that we have some heritage from our past lives, but we dont really know what happened
The whole samsara concept comes from buddhism, telling that the soul is "trapped" in a cycle of reincarnation and learning, and all this ends when the nirvana (perfect soul state, prolly the "enlightenment" inspiration from the series)
That said, the idea of laura having her problems (specially the soul corruption, that developed into her mental illness and so on) due to her past life is very likeable to be canon, and even not knowing she was william and what happened in her past life, sure she has a heeeeaaaavy baggage
And its good that you brought this topic, bc one of my thoughts always was about the past and future lives of everyone else (we only see willy/laura going thru the samsara thing)
Dunno, what if a dead vanderboom was a member of dale's family? Its really intriguing going deeper into this part of the rl universe

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Also, loved how the devs almost created a new religion picking concepts from different faiths and cultures, its cool to notice how seemingly distant things are/can be related/explained by various povs 🥰

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:29 PM

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prisma monolith Muddling on the whole reincarnation thing, but: we know that William's soul was ...

I think we should consider every type of reincarnation as a "transformation": the souls don't "accumulate" in the next body, but they become something else

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:31 PM

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astral frost I think we should consider every type of reincarnation as a "transformation": th...

I think that souls like in Buddhism are the only part that stay more or less the same in different bodies. Personalities do not.

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:31 PM

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Right

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:32 PM

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azure bay I think that souls like in Buddhism are the only part that stay more or less the...

I mean usually do not. Mr. Owl & Mr. Crow both seem to preserve it

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:32 PM

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Because they are more "enlightenments" rather than "reincarnations"

prisma monolith Mar 14, 2021, 1:33 PM

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It's interesting to think about this from an anthropological perspective

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:33 PM

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bare in mind that corruption may also work in that way. Who knows how many times Bob got corrupted & back to normal

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:34 PM

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Right... But there's a difference between Bob and Laura

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They are 2 different types of Corruption

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:34 PM

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maybe even 3

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maybe they all could be seen as the one

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:36 PM

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The main difference I spotted is that Bob never died, while William (or Caroline too) died and then became CS

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:36 PM

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btw in Theatre Bob had the same reasons to get corrupted as Laura - memory extraction

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:37 PM

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Wait wait

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What I mean is, if you recover from Corruption when you are dead, you will become someone else (like a proper reincarnation)

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If you become Corrupted while you are alive, you can recover your form

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:39 PM

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If we take Seasons literally Laura was able to preserve her human form as well

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:39 PM

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You're right

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Nevermind ahahahaha

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Even if Seasons finale isn't totally contextualized in the timeline yet

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:40 PM

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I've recalled something else concerning her

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there is another way to classify CS. They are either materialistic or not

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materialistic are those who did not leave the older body behind

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Bob & Laura are like that

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even in The Cave when she exchanges her corruption with Dale (or whatever that was) she restores her human form for a second

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so this materialism my play some role

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:44 PM

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It would fit with almost all the characters

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Great!

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:44 PM

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what exactly would?

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:46 PM

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When I theorize about CS, I always run into Laura, which is a little problematic character: her Corruption works like Bob's one (apparently she can maintain her older Human form), but she also died before Corruption

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I always try to search the reasons between that difference, but right now it is impossible

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Your division is more useful right now

prisma monolith Mar 14, 2021, 1:48 PM

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Maybe it has to do with the control of the physical body: Bob was seen to be corrupted for a time, but since he was still alive, he eventually regained control, while Laura killing herself made her give her body to the corruption

astral frost Mar 14, 2021, 1:49 PM

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prisma monolith Maybe it has to do with the control of the physical body: Bob was seen to be cor...

Laura seems recovering her Human form at the end of everything, in 1981

prisma monolith Mar 14, 2021, 1:50 PM

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Think of the mind (the one in control) and the body (the vessel) as two "separate" beings

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:51 PM

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to be fair, this rule would be even better if it would've applied to at least asuras. But Mr. Owl died as Jacob but somehow was able to recover his previous form (if his form is really the old man Jacob)

prisma monolith Mar 14, 2021, 1:51 PM

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And the Corrupted souls sort of remind me of possessions

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:53 PM

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prisma monolith And the Corrupted souls sort of remind me of possessions

by who?

prisma monolith Mar 14, 2021, 1:53 PM

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Something parasitic?

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:54 PM

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not sure here. Protagonists are usually required to face their CS or demons (in The Cave they are seemingly established to be the same)

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:57 PM

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astral frost Laura seems recovering her Human form at the end of everything, in 1981

it could involve a butterfly effect of a sort as long as paper notes with cry to change the past are strong enough as evidence.

If it's just an auto-suggestion on the memory level then recovering the lost body would be problematic

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unless Laura's body isn't really lost

azure bay Mar 14, 2021, 1:59 PM

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prisma monolith Something parasitic?

I cannot think about CS being parasitic because of Caroline's example of peaceful CS & Mr. Crow's attachment to his dead & corrupted brother (both left their human bodies behind)

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both preserved personalities or at least some memories

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:00 PM

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I wonder how old harvey is, because we can see her before the eilander kid becomes mister owl

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:01 PM

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I thought that she may be the first test subject of the elixir

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:02 PM

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Maybe harvey is the mastermind behind all this Bonk_Harvey

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:02 PM

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And she stuck around, like the dog

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:02 PM

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what about Harvey bringing things through decades?

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like the letter to Frank & a flower to Laura

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:03 PM

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Maybe the dog also has a humanoid form

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:03 PM

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prisma monolith Maybe the dog also has a humanoid form

then we would already see it

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:04 PM

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Yeah, from what i understand only people who have been enlightened get humanoid forms and being enlightened and drinking the elixir are 2 different things

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:04 PM

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not exactly

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they are definitely correlated

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:05 PM

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Well, i should have explained im not the best at rusty lake lore lmao

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So please, enlighten me... haha, get it, i made a.. yeah... you get it

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:05 PM

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I was going to suggest that the dog was a reincarnated form of Mr. Boar or whatever his name was, but the timeline doesn't match up

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:06 PM

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let me explain my picture

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we've got 3 examples of using the elixir

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& the 4th one is foreshadowed

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Jacob & Aldous were both humans & became asuras

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demigods in English

ebon aspen Mar 15, 2021, 1:08 PM

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prisma monolith I was going to suggest that the dog was a reincarnated form of Mr. Boar or whate...

The dog its just a damn lucky pet that drank the elixir and now poops eternal life

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:08 PM

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Dale is mentored by them, they are giving him "a higher state of consciousness" so he's about to become a deva - a god

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:08 PM

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I drew the connection since Mr. Boar and his previous Eilander counterpart both had scenes of pooping lol

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:09 PM

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but dog has a lesser state of consciousness even than a regular human

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so it gets just a prolonged life & no magic at all

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:09 PM

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So kinda like Harvey?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:10 PM

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prisma monolith So kinda like Harvey?

I think Harvey is somehow bigger but I dunno yet why

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:11 PM

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ebon aspen The dog its just a damn lucky pet that drank the elixir and now poops eternal li...

The dog pooping out the elixir extract is the reason of elixir's effect being temporary

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:11 PM

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It was shown in Birthday that Harvey (or a similar character) was shown to have a humanoid form during Hotel

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:11 PM

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its particles are just leaving the body

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:12 PM

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azure bay Dale is mentored by them, they are giving him "a higher state of consciousness" ...

Yes, and thats the whole "changing memories" thing, like in birthday... correct?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:12 PM

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prisma monolith It was shown in Birthday that Harvey (or a similar character) was shown to have ...

it was shown that asura Harvey died to CS & was resurrected by Mr. Owl himself

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but the form Mr. Owl was able to grant him was just a parrot

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:13 PM

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real lantern Yes, and thats the whole "changing memories" thing, like in birthday... correct?

that & the samsara lesson in Theatre, yes

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:13 PM

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Dale is changig his own memories so he becomes a perfect being

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Or about as close as you can get

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:13 PM

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real lantern Dale is changig his own memories so he becomes a perfect being

maybe not perfect but a strong one. In a way that not everyone is ready to face his one's own demons

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:14 PM

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Maybe the case with the animals that drank the elixir, since they are less competent than humans, are sometimes transformed into humanoids by Mr. Owl/Crow, but they only do what they're told without autonomy

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:14 PM

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prisma monolith Maybe the case with the animals that drank the elixir, since they are less compe...

who's less competent than human?

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:14 PM

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The animals

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:14 PM

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in what way?

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I don't really get it

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:15 PM

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Not quite "top of the food chain"

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:15 PM

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not sentient beings u mean?

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:15 PM

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Something like that

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:16 PM

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I think he means like you said earlier, "but dog has a lesser stare of mind even then a regular human"

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:16 PM

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yep (also, I'm a woman lol)

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:17 PM

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Woops sorry, gonna keep that in mind haha

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:17 PM

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prisma monolith Maybe the case with the animals that drank the elixir, since they are less compe...

aha, I get your point here. No, I disagree. I jut think that Harvey was a "hybrid" but died & Owl in order to preserve his personality had to give him a rebirth. But apparently Mr. Owl is not powerful enough to grant at least a human form

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:17 PM

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Totally fine, you're not the first person to call me a man on Discord

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If that's the case, then maybe we could get an origin story of the humanoid Harvey in the future

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:18 PM

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maybe

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Harvey being seen before Hotel in a parrot form could indicate several things

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He used to be just a parrot but gained the enlightenment in some way

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:19 PM

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What about the guests at the Hotel?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:20 PM

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she came from the future

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:20 PM

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prisma monolith What about the guests at the Hotel?

there are many clues that may indicate them being former Eilanders

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:20 PM

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prisma monolith What about the guests at the Hotel?

The guests are the eilanders no?

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:20 PM

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Their forms have to come from somewhere

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:21 PM

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real lantern The guests are the eilanders no?

some are still doubting that

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:21 PM

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And I know their origins, I've watched playthroughs of Paradise

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:22 PM

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anyways, Eilanders becoming the guests is a consensus in the community

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:22 PM

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I even talked about Mr. Boar and his Eilander counterpart earlier

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:22 PM

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I dunno, the eilander theory sounds pretty clear cut to me, considering all the mask wearing on the day of the lake

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:23 PM

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real lantern I dunno, the eilander theory sounds pretty clear cut to me, considering all the ...

if you try to go deeper you'll discover some uncertainties

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:23 PM

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When I say "counterpart", I meant previous incarnation

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:24 PM

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for example, age of each guest was posted on the official media before the Hotel release

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& it's confusing

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Boar was over 50

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Deer was 49

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Rabbit & Pigeon both had the same age

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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Do the laws of reincarnation in the series indicate that they have to have similar age ranges to their other incarnations?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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& Pheasant was the least aged there

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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Pidgeon was gran gran correct?

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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William had gray/white hair (elderly), and Laura was a younger woman when she died

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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prisma monolith Do the laws of reincarnation in the series indicate that they have to have simil...

it's complicated to unravel

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:25 PM

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real lantern Pidgeon was gran gran correct?

yeah

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If the age posted is not yet retconned, I assume that it indicates time span since one's enlightenment

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:27 PM

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I was gonna say, boar, deer and pheasant make sense, rabbit and pidgeon dont.

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:27 PM

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I don't think that reincarnation cares about the relativity of its grouped subjects

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:27 PM

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real lantern I was gonna say, boar, deer and pheasant make sense, rabbit and pidgeon dont.

Gerard was less aged then Nicolas

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:28 PM

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I don't think the creators meant for us to do math equations to prove that reincarnation is a thing

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:28 PM

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Are we going just from look here or from official info? (On human age)

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:29 PM

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I feel as if we're overlooking it

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:29 PM

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prisma monolith I feel as if we're overlooking it

I have an explanation

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:30 PM

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so, you can there post theories for every game?

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:30 PM

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as long as it's Rusty Lake related.

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:31 PM

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but, if it's not?

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:31 PM

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then don't post it here.

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if you're interested in theorising about other games, look for their communities, google is only a few mouseclicks away.

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:32 PM

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reddit is a good place to start

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:32 PM

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Did the Eilanders even drink the elixir?

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:32 PM

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I don't like reddit

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:32 PM

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prisma monolith Did the Eilanders even drink the elixir?

um... I think no

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:32 PM

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that's not relevant to this channel.

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(the reddit thing)

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:32 PM

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prisma monolith I feel as if we're overlooking it

you see, if the age is measured in years, it shows a time span since birth. But doing like that does not make sense for one if he magically becomes old

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:33 PM

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oh yeah just tossing it in quickly, lmao

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:33 PM

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Unless he has a medical condition where his body ages disproportionately

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:34 PM

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i have like 0 proof for it, but what if the elixir isnt the only way to remain enternal?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:35 PM

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prisma monolith Unless he has a medical condition where his body ages disproportionately

never the less if his aging was fast-forwarded in his 20s he would look old but still be in his 20s

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:35 PM

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prisma monolith Did the Eilanders even drink the elixir?

I think that when they sacrificed the eilander kid (always forget his name)
They created the elixir, and then drank it

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:36 PM

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vague imp i have like 0 proof for it, but what if the elixir isnt the only way to remain e...

even elixir doesn't make you eternal :з

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:36 PM

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real lantern I think that when they sacrificed the eilander kid (always forget his name) They...

5 persons enlightened for 1 person sacrificed? not buying it

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:36 PM

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maybe not the kind they have haha who knows maybe its some fountain of youth stuff

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:36 PM

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I think the lake is able to grant an asura form

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:37 PM

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I mean, there was the sacrifices from the owl's mom

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:37 PM

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They went digging around Caroline's cave/well place after the sacrifice?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:37 PM

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real lantern I mean, there was the sacrifices from the owl's mom

Caroline's sacrifice gave Jacob his enlightenment

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:37 PM

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Or wherever she wrote the formula

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:38 PM

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prisma monolith Or wherever she wrote the formula

the formula was incomplete

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:38 PM

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They're cultists, not dumb people

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:38 PM

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she was hiding the rest for Jacob

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:38 PM

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Maybe the ritual is more powerful if all the sacrifices are from one person, and not from the whole family

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:39 PM

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prisma monolith They're cultists, not dumb people

smart doesn't mean perfect 😉

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:39 PM

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prisma monolith They're cultists, not dumb people

we have no idea how smart or dumb they are

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:39 PM

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Well, if they're able to convince themselves to kill their firstborn in a giant owl effigy...

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:40 PM

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we know that they were asking the lake for the enlightenment in exchange of sacrifice

prisma monolith Mar 15, 2021, 1:40 PM

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That could take a level of manipulation

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:40 PM

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would it though?

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if you're raised on the island, near the lake

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wouldn't you just accept these things as truth,

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if you don't know any better there is no reason to be manipulated.

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:40 PM

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covert wyvern would it though?

it's expected at least as long as Jacob was sacrificed & they become the guests

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:41 PM

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thats how cults work

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:41 PM

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see the hedgehog gets it

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if you're taught your entire life that 2 + 2 = 5

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you would just answer 5, if someone asks you what 2 + 2 is.

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:41 PM

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trust me cults like brainwash you they do it in a way you dont even notice

spice frigate Mar 15, 2021, 1:42 PM

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vague imp trust me cults like brainwash you they do it in a way you dont even notice

yup yup

covert wyvern Mar 15, 2021, 1:42 PM

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also im unsure if one family could even be called "a cult"

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but im no expert.

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:42 PM

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you forget that this cult worships such a powerful thing like the lake

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its magic is apparent

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:43 PM

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was gonna say smth memey about this but nv.XD

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ok, another theory: golden cubes are combinations of black, white and blue cubes; or somebody every memories

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:44 PM

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blue cubes contain no memories

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what is it for then?

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:45 PM

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changing the past

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:45 PM

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vague imp ok, another theory: golden cubes are combinations of black, white and blue cubes...

Yes, that is true

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:45 PM

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wich one?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:46 PM

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vague imp changing the past

I mean in that memory shake that the golden cube is

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:46 PM

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That golden cubes are a combination of all other cubes

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:46 PM

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ye

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but, what does it do?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:46 PM

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@vague imp 's idea is more about memories. Am I right?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:48 PM

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vague imp but, what does it do?

I think that the Golden cube was to be created exclusively with memories of the elixir formula

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in the book Laura's cubes have the elixir insignia

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the same insignia was on the golden one

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:49 PM

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did we even get a 100% answer what the golden cube does?

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:49 PM

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nope

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:49 PM

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no

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:49 PM

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in fact we rarely do have a 100% answer

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but we may interpret & expect

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so I expect the golden cube being required for the elixir

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:49 PM

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true

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:50 PM

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or being an elixir itself

vague imp Mar 15, 2021, 1:50 PM

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consume the cube, Dale

azure bay Mar 15, 2021, 1:51 PM

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returning to Eilanders

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in my book they are more likely to get the enlightenment from the lake than from the elixir because the lake was asked for it & Caroline was eager to prevent them from getting the elixir

real lantern Mar 15, 2021, 1:58 PM

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The only thing we realy know about the golden cubes is what we talked about earlier, and the quote from the book in "cave" "the memories are not only the key to the past but... also to the future"

north pasture Mar 16, 2021, 4:20 PM

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HOLD UP

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I’ve been thinking about Dale and Albert and uh

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not ONLY do they both have Deer Motifs but they BOTH got their brains cut out

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:]

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I am So Very Scared for the new game

azure bay Mar 16, 2021, 4:22 PM

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I guess, we yet need something more definite