🤔｜theories

[vague imp]

No, we don't

Although Harvey is a modern-sounding name

[nocturne yarrow]

Hold up- I just realized a possible thing that shows which hybrids were originally human, and which were from animals.
Complex speech.
All the hybrids can speak in full sentences except Harvey and the Bat Bellboy from Hotel, and both seem to have more animalistic qualities than the rest of the hybrids.

[vague imp]

TRUE

[violet tundra]

Yes

[vague imp]

So from that, we can gather that Harvey was a bird to start with

Which is why she is reverted to one by Mr. Owl

[nocturne yarrow]

The bat is definitely not human- their appearance in the Cave tells me that at least.

[vague imp]

Yes

[nocturne yarrow]

That leaves the question of who the hell Mr. Toad is- he can speak full sentences, so he's probably human.

[vague imp]

Yeah, I was wondering about him

There sure are a lot of people who came in contact with this elixir

[nocturne yarrow]

it's so weird to me that in a series that doesn't leave any details astray, they'd just have this one guy who only shows up in one game

[vague imp]

(It was vaporized when we burned Caroline's powdered bones)

[nocturne yarrow]

also yeah, they were crankin' it out

[vague imp]

(They all inhaled it)

[nocturne yarrow]

...eh. maybe? I feel like that wouldn't be a potent enough dosage.

[vague imp]

We don't know if it's dose-dependent though

[nocturne yarrow]

They talk in the Cave about the "full elixir", which hints that the stuff you make in that game out of the dog's poop isn't actually powerful enough to work.

so it might not be dose-dependent, but I think it needs to be from the "original batch" to work properly.

[vague imp]

Forgive me, I was about to get pharmacological about an immortality potion in the world's weirdest game series

[nocturne yarrow]

I feel like the science in these games are fast-and-loose at best

[vague imp]

Yeah, I think it is the original batch that matters

(from the wiki) The transformative effects of the elixir aren't permanent... we see Mr. Crow back as Aldous in The Cave

[nocturne yarrow]

I think the "original batch"- or the "pure exilir"- can only be produced through a complex ritual. For example- the events of Paradise, and the events of Hotel. The current events of the game with Dale might be another attempt to create more elixir.

[vague imp]

Which probably requires a set of memories involving all ten of the items in the cave drawing and a healthy dose of trauma. I haven't played Paradox, but that would be an interesting theory project, seeing if all those items are in Hotel

And in Paradox

None of the items on the cave drawing recipe are a black egg

So there must be more than one way to make it

[violet tundra]

That's true yes

[nocturne yarrow]

going into the cave right now to recover that painting, I'll see if all that stuff was in Paradox

[vague imp]

Fire, copper tube, antlers, rose, heart,

[nocturne yarrow]

...nevermind, we're thinking of different items

[vague imp]

I mean the one Caroline was writing in Paradise

What were yours?

[violet tundra]

I'm playing the cave currently like i haven't play it thousand times lol

[nocturne yarrow]

I thought you meant those wall puzzles in the Cave- like, the cube escape game specifically

also, I think the items Caroline found are just one way of getting the elixir

[vague imp]

Yes, sorry for misleading you

[nocturne yarrow]

nah it's fine

[vague imp]

I'm gonna step off for a while

[azure bay]

It's highly believed in the community that the Hotel guests ARE the reincarnations of Eilanders. There are quite many parallels in Paradise. The most are about Gerard, they've even recreated the toilet scene. Margaret hiding inside the cauldron looks like Pigeon in the hot tub. Mr. Rabbit's hand appears in the plague dedicated to David. & so on... These evidences are not based on the facts, but on artistic moves that are not really reliable being subjective. But I have something else in my sleeve.

It's confirmed that David really becomes a Mr. Rabbit from BD & the pistol he is getting could be a connection to the Hotel one.

Talking about 2 defferent-looking deer CS, I think they are the same, just redesign. The reason is RL Roots poster that contains not only Roots characters but also 5 CS of the guests & "the old crow" in a boat. The only deer CS present is the one from Case 23.

[bold sigil]

So can Harvey still turn back into a bird man or is he stuck as a bird

[azure bay]

It's possible for everyone. Just requires a big effort.

[hollow comet]

I think he is. Hybrids can transform between human and hybrid form effortlessly (1 head goes in and another pops out) but to turn from a hybrid into a bird, Harvey has to summon a light beam. I think it's not easy to reverse the process given that fact.

[azure bay]

We've seen such a thing commited by Owl & Crow only. The others are yet to be confirmed to be able to do the same

[hollow comet]

does this have any instances?

[azure bay]

I'm talking about rebirth in general

Every creature exists forever. Just changes its bodies

So potentially everyone can become a god one day

[hollow comet]

I don't think OP was asking about rebirh though

[azure bay]

I'm not sure if he was asking about changing form by the will.

So we may wait for him to precise the question

[astral frost]

Reincarnation can imply changing sex

William became Laura

[vague imp]

Yeah you can be reborn with a different gender, its like 50/50

[covert wyvern]

Idk If i was william i'd definitely decide to reincarnate as a cute girl,

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vague imp]

Doubt u can choose it just happens

[covert wyvern]

Damn reincarnation sucks

[vague imp]

Yeah lmao .

Wish you could choose ur gender @ birth/rebirth oh well

[nocturne yarrow]

Well dang, you’re right, I ignored the single most important reincarnation in the series when I made that statement

[hollow comet]

william didn't reincarnate by the elixir though

[nocturne yarrow]

Though I don’t think Harvey really died and was reborn- quite the opposite, they were made immortal.

[astral frost]

There's a strange scene about Harvey's transformation/reincarnation

In the easter egg in Birthday

[nocturne yarrow]

I guess Harvey may have been killed by the souls and ressurected there, but I suppose I don’t see how that would happen

[astral frost]

I noticed it not so long ago, because it's hard to notice

Wait a moment

Here it is

It's difficult to spot it, but this looks like Mr Owl

And he's triggering Harvey's transformation with a light ray

[nocturne yarrow]

Hmm. I suppose he could’ve done the transformation, but I don’t think he has the power to fully resurrect people. If he could, then the entirety of Roots would be pointless.

[astral frost]

That's true hahaha

[azure bay]

Different reincarnations seem to require different effort.
It's easy to be reborn in a lesser form. For example, we see people & demigods becoming CS with the twist of a spanner.

Plus, Since Paradox Mr. Owl is believed to be eventually reborn as simple animal - another downgrade happening seemingly on its own.

But to get a higher form you usually need to perform sacrifices, challenges & so on.

Perhaps, a creature powerful enough may also provide one form or another. As an example, the lake itself seems to give Eilanders their enlightenment (at least they were asking for it none other than the lake) & gave them exactly the same forms they were cosplaying.
It also coincides with Mr. Owl giving Harvey the excact animal form while being more powerful than many, but less powerful than the lake.

Statictically, the odds of Eilanders & Harvey being reborn in a familiar forms on their own are very-very low (assuming the process being completely random while also considering a wide variety of animal spicies). But it seems to me to be plausible if it's done by someone's intention.

[nocturne yarrow]

I think you make good points here, but one of the bases to your theory- that the Eilanders were given the animal forms of the hotel guests- has never made any sense to me.
Sure, the Eilanders and guests have some similar traits between each animal form, but there's too many discrepancies for me to think they're the actual same people.
Here's a few- Ms. Pheasant shows 0 signs of blindness like Elizabeth, Mr. Rabbit is a different color than David (and the David Eilander that killed Dale's parents), not a single one of the guests shows any sign of actually recognizing the lake that they spent their whole lives at, and they all seemed to have new jobs and lives utterly unrelated to the Eilanders.
So sure, I guess they could have gone off to do completely random jobs after Paradise, Elizabeth could've cured her blindness, and they all could have forgotten what their home looked like- but it seems unlikely.

[astral frost]

David was kinda like a magician after all

Gerard was as grumpy as Mr Boar

And Nicholas always showed interest in research

[nocturne yarrow]

I'm not saying they're non-similar, I think that they carry on traits due to being reincarnations of the Eilanders. I'm just saying they're probably different people.

[azure bay]

I pretty much understand your point here. I was also doubting 2 Mr. Rabbits being the same until Paradox. I still doubt grandpa Vandermeer being Mr. Crow. And I still doubt TWD manager being Mr. Owl. These all have (or had) pretty much weak evidences.

But I'm pretty sure about Eilanders. Their evidences are weak too (except for the last one) but their quantity is bigger so their 'weak' combined becomes stronger in my eyes:

1. They are wearing the corresponding masks
2. There are many parallels & direct easter eggs
3. They were seeking after the enlightenment (e.g. becoming asuras) & eventually they've seemingly fulfilled all the requirements. So in my eyes they are expected to reappear as asuras.

[vague imp]

So it's Eilanders --> Hotel guests --> Corrupted Souls? Makes sense to me.
Did they achieve enlightenment through the ritual where Jakob was killed, or was it earlier?

[azure bay]

Yeah, I was reffering to the sacrifice of Jacob

[vague imp]

In that case, then, why didn't sacrificing Caroline give them enlightenment? Presumably they had done some other stuff before, or is it because she wasn't killed in the lake chapel?

Is it a multi-part ritual that requires multiple human sacrifices?

[azure bay]

I think she's turned out to be the wrong person

[vague imp]

Her death started the plagues

[azure bay]

Presumably

[vague imp]

But wasn't her death several years before? Jakob was a child when she put him in the boat... right?

[azure bay]

That's not so clear

Do you remember the coffin scene?

[vague imp]

Yes... the coffin rises out of the lake and a black cube comes out of it

Right? At the end of plague 1?

[azure bay]

I refer to the memory from that very cube

[vague imp]

Actually, no

[azure bay]

The family performs the ritual

"Please, accept our sacrifice & enlighten us"

Over that very coffin

[vague imp]

Ok

So that was pretty recent

Less than a year, probably

[azure bay]

Or at least the children had time to grow up

[vague imp]

Yes

[azure bay]

There is also a little possibility of her dying long before the sacrifice was announced.

But father probably implies that she died pretty recently

[vague imp]

Ok

[azure bay]

Do we have reasons to believe him?

[vague imp]

Well I can think of one reason not to: you dig up Caroline's clean bones in plague 9

[azure bay]

They look quite old btw

[vague imp]

Yes

And they don't look charred at all

But maybe I'm misunderstanding how burning at the stake works

Still, it seems inconsistent with her being burned at the stake

[azure bay]

Oh!

I have an idea

They probably were inside the coffing & had time to be cleaned by the lake water

[vague imp]

Hmm

Would that have something to do with the coffin being filled with blood?

[azure bay]

The blood was all across the lake

[vague imp]

Ok then, never mind

But it probably started from there, is what I'm saying

[azure bay]

Nice assumption

But I'm still quite confused

[vague imp]

By?

[azure bay]

Several things:

1. We don't see any bone inside the coffin (so there might be none)
2. The cube inside it shows the event happening outside

[vague imp]

Bones don't float, though

Human bones

[azure bay]

True, but they could at least partly peek out

[vague imp]

Maybe

It depends on how deep the coffin was, though

Anyway

But the memories are the truth of what happened. Burning at the stake doesn't always char bones. So that isn't inconsistent.

The lake water cleaning them could make sense

[azure bay]

No-no-no

I'm talking about a different thing

The coffin was sealed, right?

[vague imp]

Yes, but it may not have been airtight/watertight

[azure bay]

It was sealed, but the cube inside it shows everything outside

[vague imp]

So that's not Caroline in there?

In the memory?

[azure bay]

Idk

[vague imp]

We don't always see things from her perspective

Often, we see her

[azure bay]

All the memories are shown to belong to Caroline

Most*

Exactly this cube could belong to her CS

[vague imp]

Ok

[azure bay]

I wonder how did it get inside

[vague imp]

True

Corrupted Souls can materialize anywhere, though, right?

...no

How DID it get inside?

And how did the CS get out? I guess they're to some extent immaterial?

No, the Corrupted Soul was formed when she was killed

So maybe that is its memory

But that doesn't explain how it got there

[azure bay]

I guess, it really could hide one of its cubes there for Jacob to find

[vague imp]

Yeah

Also, you don't dig up Caroline's bones; they show up in a box

So maybe they were in the coffin

They show up during plague 9

[azure bay]

they could be in the box from the start or altrnatively moved there from the coffin when it was unsealed

[vague imp]

Yes

Anyway, the original question: why was Caroline the wrong person?

Because she discovered the elixir?

That doesn't make sense though

[azure bay]

I guess that the firstborn is required for this ritual

[vague imp]

Bingo

[azure bay]

Or Jacob was the chosen one in another sense

[vague imp]

That's possible too

So one way to achieve enlightenment is through this sacrifice ritual

The other is by drinking the elixir

[azure bay]

Or drinking it figuratively

As memories

The same case seems to be for Dale

[vague imp]

So Jakob becomes Mr. Owl via Caroline's memories

I haven't played all of Paradox yet, so I'm not sure what you mean

About Dale

[azure bay]

That's about The Cave

[vague imp]

is that the beginning of his journey through time?

[azure bay]

It is, but I'm talking about the golden cube that is made with William's memories that also contain elixir's formula, as we can see it on the mural

[vague imp]

Ohhhh

So dale and Jakob become enlightened through memories of the elixir's formula

[quick birch]

But what is glass cube ?

[vague imp]

There's a glass cube? Holey heck

[quick birch]

Yes

[azure bay]

Don't spoil Paradox

[vague imp]

I'm fine with it, I'm probably just going to watch a let's play

[azure bay]

& those cubes don't seem to be a big deal

[vague imp]

You mean the ones that Dale puts in the slots on that table?

[quick birch]

I mean I remember like

[azure bay]

Yeah

Just the keys

[vague imp]

Ok

[azure bay]

But they contain symbolism

[vague imp]

interesting

I guess I'll have to look back at that sometime

But anyway. Paths to enlightenment:

1. drinking the elixir and surviving (Mr. Crow, Caroline?)
2. memories of elixir-drinkers (Mr. Owl, Dale)
3. the Paradise ritual

And it seems they all have slightly different effects

[azure bay]

In fact, they all feature sacrifice

[vague imp]

Interesting!

1. the other entity dies

2. extracting memories results in corruption

3. it's obvious

Great connection, there, nowherecaw

[azure bay]

1. William
2. Caroline, Laura
3. Jacob

[vague imp]

We don't know if Caroline took the elixir

It doesn't seem like she ever actually made any...

[azure bay]

But she was sacrificed

[vague imp]

Right

[azure bay]

Mr. Owl refers to a great sacrifice needed for him to become something else

[vague imp]

Is that in The Cave?

[azure bay]

Paradox it is

[vague imp]

Oh

if it's in Chapter 2, i have no idea

[azure bay]

Yeah

[vague imp]

Yep

That explains why i had no idea

Anyway

It doesn't seem like Caroline herself ever achieved enlightenment

Hey

Remember that heart that Nicholas wrings out over Jakob's head when he's a kid?

Where did that come from?

Because it looks human

[quick birch]

I cant say anything cuz I didnt played paraside and roots

[vague imp]

Fair enough

[quick birch]

Also can a CS die again

[azure bay]

She did not have to.

[vague imp]

Agreed

I was sort of wondering

But it's not necessary for the lore

[azure bay]

We're talking about a kind of samsara

With the everlasting sequence of rebirths

[vague imp]

Which plays into the animal reincarnations of the Eilanders

[quick birch]

Well I knew samsara room as Lauras vorn

Born

[vague imp]

Yes

Now I understand

Now I understand how all the stuff about Buddhism and Sanskrit plays into the games themselves

Because the Eilanders were reincarnated first as animals and then became corrupted souls

[azure bay]

What I'm trying to say is that CS should also be able to be eventually reborn as something else

[vague imp]

Okay

By balancing the substance of their past lives

Which is why Mr. Rabbit is on his journey through time

[azure bay]

Or just on their own after a lo-o-o-ong time

[azure bay]

Agree here

[vague imp]

I.e. William in the samsara room

[azure bay]

Not quite. It required another ritual

[vague imp]

Right

I was about to say that

So after centuries, a CS could be reborn as something else

[quick birch]

I think CS just stays as a ...CS

[azure bay]

Why should it?

[quick birch]

I think

[azure bay]

My reason not to think so is the rule of samsara that normally every life has its end

[quick birch]

Maybe as GUESSWHO22 said centuries later it becomes a different person

[azure bay]

Yeah, now I agree

[vague imp]

This is why someone can't be enlightened and corrupted at the same time

And why Dale has those three timelines in Paradox (i know a little bit about Chapter 2 but no details)

One keeps him where he is, one leads to corruption (he becomes the CS in that scene)

And in one, he sacrifices himself to break te loop

[azure bay]

What's more, animals seem to be unable to be enlightened as well

[vague imp]

Makes sense

Which is why the dog that becomes immortal just stays a dog

[azure bay]

Yeah

[vague imp]

Then how did Harvey become immortal?

[quick birch]

So you cant have a CS and a normal soul at the same time

[vague imp]

Who died and made Harvey king, so to speak?

[azure bay]

My only guess - by the power of Owl or the Lake

[quick birch]

Maybe he was a person in past years

[vague imp]

Maybe he was

Harvey has been around as a name for a long time

And in the 1894 scene in Birthday, we see him as a hybrid

[azure bay]

I think we shouldn't regard CS as actual souls. It's rather a form of body, if we believe samsara

[vague imp]

so it's a type of body that is in a transitional state between physical forms?

Which is why it's stuck in that weird room trying on different manifestations?

[azure bay]

Nope, read about samsara realms & project it over Theatre

[vague imp]

Okay

I think i get it now

So the CS state is one of the six realms

[azure bay]

Exactly

[vague imp]

And if you do everything right in it ("balance the substance of your past lives"), you can escape it and return to a higher one

[azure bay]

One can interpete that as fixing karma

[vague imp]

That makes sense

Go back to the past and fix karma by journeying through time

Karma... now I get it

Karma is why the Eilanders were reincarnated as dressed animals

[azure bay]

Or at least memories. Many don't believe that you are able to fix more that that

[vague imp]

Fix memories

Okay

[azure bay]

Wait

I'm just giving you different perspectives

Personally, I believe in fixing the past via memories

Some just don't

[vague imp]

Oookay

So about the reincarnation

the Eilanders were reincarnated as full-on animals because they did evil in the pursuit of power

I wonder if Aldous knew about the 50/50 death thing

[azure bay]

I want to underline that RL does not straightly copy the samsara concept

[vague imp]

It just kinda references it

[azure bay]

It's just difficult to become deva

A god

Mr. Owl could be the one already, but I doubt it very much

[vague imp]

because he needs the elixir to sustain it

[azure bay]

Cause Dale is supposed to become one

& his journey towards it seems to be waaaaay more difficult that Jacob's

[vague imp]

That makes sense

So the CS that Dale sees in the woods isn't real

The animal ones are the Eilanders

The one in the dress in Paradise is Caroline

[azure bay]

Why so?

[vague imp]

About the one in Paradox not being real?

[azure bay]

Yep

[vague imp]

Because the whole thing is a series of psychological tests Mr. Owl is setting up

It's not a real realm

Is it?

[azure bay]

The last part is facing his demons

[vague imp]

But it's all a simulation

[azure bay]

It's not physically real, yeah

[vague imp]

So the CS there is just symbolic of those demons

[azure bay]

But it could reflect the reality & his own state

[vague imp]

So that's Bad Dale?

In simple terms?

[azure bay]

Probably

I'm still stuggling to put Dale's CS & Bob's one into the picture I've presented to you

[vague imp]

Yeah, I was about to ask: who is the humanoid in The Lake?

Because Bob turns corrupted at two points, depending on the timeline

Before Dale travels back in time and intervenes, it's in the police station

[azure bay]

It could be anyone. Even some noname

[vague imp]

True, because (from a Doylist perspective) the devs didn't have all the lore sorted out when they made The Lake

Ooh... this is big brain time

Maybe it's the same person whose heart Nicholas wrung out over Jakob's head when he was a kid

because where did that heart come from?

[azure bay]

Too far-fetched to my liking

[vague imp]

Fair enough

Who knows, maybe it's not a human heart after all

Maybe it's a goat's heart or something and they just reused the asset

[azure bay]

For me, that CS was either nobody or Laura from the future

[quick birch]

I think he killed Laura

[azure bay]

When?

[quick birch]

At the end of the paradox

[vague imp]

Ch1 or Ch2?

[quick birch]

I dont remember but I guess 2 🥲

[vague imp]

okay

[azure bay]

Both

[vague imp]

Right

because they all end that way

[quick birch]

Ok

[azure bay]

Paradox is in Dale's head.

[vague imp]

right

[quick birch]

Yeah

[azure bay]

So it's impossible to be the time & place of Laura's death

[vague imp]

Because Laura's body was found in her apartment

Which is the room in Seasons

How does The White Door fit into this? I haven't played it, but I don't mind spoilers.

I know something about it, though

Bob finds out that Laura is dead and checks into a "mental health facility"

[azure bay]

There was a long story of his life being ruined

[vague imp]

Is in a simulation in Dale's head

[quick birch]

So this happened in Dale V. 's head

[vague imp]

It did, yes

I just realized CS's don't cast shadows, which makes sense

[azure bay]

He also really did visit Theatre

[vague imp]

yes

[azure bay]

& remembers shooting himself

[quick birch]

I wonder why Dale saw theese simulations

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

It was like a dream or a coma

Something was brought in by Owl. Something by his own mind

Something could be by the lake

@vague imp but the pistol was given by the bartender. So the shot could be not real

After a bad trip he wakes up in the street with amnesia & gets into the mental institute

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

Somewhen between the shot & him waking up he was arrested. I have many ideas how that's possible, but none seems to beat the others

The thing is that Theatre & TWD are separated by a long time period

& the events are shown strangely

So I'm confused

[vague imp]

Is the bartender Mr. Crow outside of crow form?

Or someone else? Or do we know?

[azure bay]

I believe it's Mr. Crow. No doubt

His human form

But a bit younger

[vague imp]

Okay

So because it was Mr. Crow, the shot may not have been real

[azure bay]

(He either got old after just in several months due to the elixir stopped working or it's the Theatre illusion)

[vague imp]

(nods)

Also, I think we might have an ID on the soul in The Lake

Mrs. Pigeon

This is working from the theory that the soul in Harvey's Box is Mrs. Pigeon

Which I proposed above

And the one in Harvey's Box has the same normal-looking right hand as the one in The Lake

[azure bay]

I'l consider that, but won't completely believe until we get more evidence

[vague imp]

Yeah

Got it

Whose else would it be, though?

Do we know when The White Door takes place? What year?

1972

[azure bay]

The same 1972 + flashbacks

[vague imp]

Okay

That could be between Fall and Winter in Seasons

I.e. it is between Fall and Winter in Seasons

Or is Laura already dead in Fall?

[azure bay]

Ok. I can be more precise

TWD starts 13 august 1972 & takes exactly a week

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

What's on your mind?

[vague imp]

That Bob's CS is the one in the lake in The Lake

And something happened in The White Door that caused that

We play as Laura in The Lake

And the Soul that attacks her is Bob

But it's not supportable to say that the Eilanders wouldn't attack strangers because they attack Dale

[azure bay]

Then it could also be Dale's one

Imo, Bob is the most innocent of 3 suspects of mine

[vague imp]

Why would it be Dale?

[azure bay]

Because Paradox could still reflect the reality in some way

It shows Dale's path on the globe

It contains the book about Bob being innocent

It contains Case 23 file

& reflects Dale's mental state

It seems to me to be the mirror of some kind

[vague imp]

Yeah, i do think the Paradox room is a reflection of dale's mind

But I forgot about the green gem

In The Lake, the green gem is the good ending, but the question would be, is it the true ending?

[azure bay]

Let me explain what is true ending for me by the example of Paradox

Each chapter has its ending & these are pretty much th same

& the story does not end by them

Dale just wakes up once again

But

There are 2 secret endings

Each lead to the end of this loop

To the end of the game

So they are the true endings

But

They contradict each other

[vague imp]

What are they? Sorry if that's an unsuitable question

[azure bay]

One is the green vial

The other one is golden cube & the elevator

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

He either dies or gets his enlightenment

Kinda an element of choice

Personally, they are both canon for me

Just happen in different timelines

& this tendency is seen from the very start

For example

I believe that Laura has changed her past back in Seasons. Just because it war directly written

That means that she would cancel all Dale's story

[vague imp]

That's true

[azure bay]

But not unless they come from the different timelines

& if we take The Lake

If Laura dies there, she would not experiece the summer

[vague imp]

The Lake takes place in 1969?

[azure bay]

Yes

[vague imp]

Okay

Because of the newspaper contest? I think there was something like that in Case 23

[azure bay]

Wdym?

[vague imp]

In Case 23, dale finds a newspaper advertising Rusty Lake

Ok, scrap that

How do we know The Lake is in 1969?
There's a title card, isn't there?

[azure bay]

The official timeline

[vague imp]

Thank you

That's super helpful

[azure bay]

I also have my personal timeline if you r interested. It's full unlike the one above

But relies on some theorizing

That may be false

[vague imp]

Go ahead, I'm interested

[azure bay]

I'd rather send it via DM

So yeah

[vague imp]

Cool

[azure bay]

I regard the whole story as a set of possible outcomes

We are mostly interested in the one that leads Dale to his enlightenment

But not every game seems to fit it with the assumptions given

To be precise, Seasons & the green vial ending that may or may not share the timeline

[vague imp]

All right

I think the thing about alternate timelines is interesting considering the idea of quantum superposition and how the elixir works

I.e. the 50/50 shot between death and enlightenment when someone drinks the elixir reminds me of quantum superposition, in which both states exist at the same time for a brief instant

[azure bay]

A good observation

[vague imp]

Admittedly, this doesn't happen in real life to macroscopic objects, or life and death as the Schrodinger's cat thought experiment says

But that doesn't explain why it seems to always give one thing that drinks it immortality and the other death

Would it, could it work if only one person drank it?

Yes. Because the two people never drink it at exactly the same time

But I shouldn't try to get too strictly scientific with the world's weirdest game series

[azure bay]

The case of Laura-Dale could be the one is some way

[vague imp]

A superposition?

[azure bay]

Maybe not quite but hear me out

Laura herself tells Dale about them being connected in that way

[vague imp]

Which game?

paradox?

[azure bay]

Yeah

But

1. It was in the context of the future (& she was literally old there)
2. She was still dead outside his mind

I mean corrupted

[vague imp]

Okay

So in Dale's simulation dream, he enters another timeline where he has a chat with an older Laura

[azure bay]

Maybe

I was never thinking of it in that way actually

[vague imp]

Maybe that is him thinking through how big of a butterfly effect getting her case was for him

I.e. if she hadn't died, he wouldn't be what he is now

Well, he would probably still be a detective, but not one caught up in all the Rusty Lake weirdness

Thinking about it through the lens of a conversation with counterfactual old Laura

[azure bay]

I'm afraid the butterfly effect is not completely present here. After all he changes his BD that makes him to defeat his trauma but still somehow leads him to the lake

[vague imp]

I think Paradox happens before the elevator journey

[azure bay]

(If we start speculating that massacre seems to make him wanting to become homocide detective)

[vague imp]

Interesting... I guess that makes sense

[azure bay]

Therefore if there was no massacre he is expected not to work in the PD & to find another way to be noticed & taken to the lake

[vague imp]

Hmm

So even if his parents hadn't died, he still makes it to the lake, and all the stuff in The Cave and following happens either way?

[azure bay]

Yeah, but it seems not expected

Welp

I want to believe that we have here something like avengers the endgame

[vague imp]

with which I am entirely unfamiliar

[azure bay]

Alrighty then

Are you familiar to grandfather's paradox of time travel?

[vague imp]

Is that the one with Thanos?

I am

[azure bay]

That movie was using the solution that just creates a separate timeline with no butterfly effect

[vague imp]

Okay

So two timelines split off from each other and both continue to exist?

In parallel universes or something?

[azure bay]

Yeah

[vague imp]

Got it

[azure bay]

That's the mechanism that saves Dale's story from Seasons in my head

[vague imp]

I think I see where you're going

[azure bay]

But there is a problem

I want to believe that but don't see much evidence yet

Because both Laura & Dale are actually fixing themselves

Normally, that shouldn't be the case with just creating a timeline

Unless they somehow become another selves that belong to the timelines they've created

[vague imp]

Understood

[azure bay]

Laura could do that by using her machine

But Dale

[vague imp]

There's no mechanism for him to do that

Because there's no splitting with the elevator in the lake

It's just timeline Dale going back to change the past

[azure bay]

Not quite

He's entering his cube

[vague imp]

Oh, that's right

[azure bay]

& he changes its substance

The debatable question is whether he changes the past as well

[vague imp]

Okay

By entering the cube, do you mean the white one at the end of The Cave?

[azure bay]

In Seasons, BD, Theatre & Paradox the protagonist enters his memory cube

To relive the memory

"the past isn't dead" there & "he changes all he touches"

[vague imp]

Oh, yes

That's true

[azure bay]

But that is still interpretable in many ways

Some good friends of mine regard this just as a symbolism

& the story is about the acceptance

[vague imp]

Yes

Okay

That he's coming to terms with these events rather than literally changing them

[azure bay]

But I tend to take these more literally

[vague imp]

Yeah, so do I

because if it was just acceptance, why would he need this weird elevator?

Does your friend think that's symbolic, too, for therapy or something?

[azure bay]

The elevator is real

It's to travel through the water

That is able to contain memories

[vague imp]

okay

Anyway

I just realized it's the same elevator in the hotel

Which means that the cube room that Dale is in at the end of The Cave is under the hotel somehow

If that's right

[azure bay]

At least the one in BD, Theatre & The Cave

[vague imp]

Yes

Not Case 23 though

Because that one is in the cabin

And the cabin is definitely real

It's abandoned in 1969 and 1972

Maybe because of the Corrupted Souls?

[azure bay]

Dunno

[vague imp]

"Hey, don't stay in that fishing cabin, my sister went there once and a black ghost with wings almost killed her"

A few decades later and that place would be a hotspot for paranormal investigator shows

But I digress

[azure bay]

If you look closely at my timeline scheme you may notice the little picture of The Cave mural that shows Dale right after Case 23

[vague imp]

Yep, spotted it

Nice touch

[azure bay]

Do u remember that mural?

[vague imp]

I do

You move a diver (Mr. Owl) around to protect Dale from the souls

and let him access the memory

[azure bay]

That's one the main clues for The Cave being before BD

[vague imp]

Yes

Just put that together

Does he somehow walk across the bottom of the lake?

[azure bay]

I guess it's normal

[vague imp]

Interesting

Or maybe it's Mr. Owl again

[azure bay]

Th bottom is breathable for Mr. Crow without Mr. Owl

But not the upper layers

[vague imp]

That's weird

[azure bay]

They required a submarine

[vague imp]

Because the bottom is the forest dimension

[azure bay]

Hmm...

Returning to Dale's trauma

His black BD cube crearly becomes white in the end

[vague imp]

Yes

[azure bay]

If we remember the Seasons (pun intended) we may assume that that has also rebuilt all the memory sequence

Or at least a part of it

Because

Planting the seed in spring results in the cactus growing throughout the memories

[vague imp]

Got it

[azure bay]

(I'm just thinking out loud so feel free to correct me or add something)

[vague imp]

And like that voice on the phone says, "Anything you touch, you change"

So changes to prior memories have effects in the subsequent ones

Like Harvey surviving to bring you a flower

Well, what am I re-explaining the entire base mechanic for?

[azure bay]

I want to review 2 of the cases

So

Change in 1 memory results into changing all of them

& finally when she turns on the machine she makes it work through time by the phone call

[vague imp]

So she calls her past self?

[azure bay]

I think so

Because there was an extra line

[vague imp]

That must be her CS in Winter then

The voice matches it

[azure bay]

"find me in the past"

[vague imp]

"Find me in the past..."

Interesting

[azure bay]

My brain hurts

[vague imp]

It can't be that that's the CS from The Lake, can it? Laura's CS had a dress

[azure bay]

They all looked the same back then

Bah... That's all is way more complicated

At least it may be

[vague imp]

It can't be, because Laura is the protagonist of The Lake and she doesn't get corrupted until she dies later in the timeline

so forget that

It's not Laura

I was wrong

[azure bay]

No

It could be her

[vague imp]

More timeline weirdness

?

[azure bay]

Yeah

Like

[vague imp]

Like Mr. Rabbit

Her CS on a journey through time ends up in the lake in 1969

But why would she kill her past self?

Mr. Rabbit doesn't

And it wouldn't make any sense

[azure bay]

I'm not talking about her killing herself

I'm talking about calling herself

[vague imp]

Okay

I was on about the CS in The Lake

Sorry

[azure bay]

Mr. Owl from 1966 was seemingly able to speak with Dale from 1939

The Mill call is as strange

One second we speak to Dale from 1971

The next one we see Dale form 1972 being teleported to the lake

[vague imp]

So that's how he gets out there

[azure bay]

That could be either a seamless timeskip, or a time anomaly or just a call into the past (because on the scheme it's listed just as 1972)

& in Seasons the phone does magic after we launch the machine in the future

So...

My guess

At first we call the future-self

(That is probably impersonating Mr. Crow)

Hmmm... I've just remembered a good question I was asking before

When do we start playing as CS?

[vague imp]

TRUE

I think it's whenever the CS stops appearing in our vision

Probably Fall

Because Laura has visions of the CS in summer

[azure bay]

It appears in every season

Even in winter

[vague imp]

Shoot

Is it in the mirror in winter?

[azure bay]

No, a vague silhouette outside the window

That appears time to time

[vague imp]

Huh

That's really weird

I think it's winter

Unless this isn't Laura's soul

B/c Laura gets corrupted after Mr. Crow extracts memories from her body

[azure bay]

I think it's at least fall after she died

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

We see an iconic funeral card

& newsflash

Ah

I remember another thing

All the seasons are memories

Even the winter one

[vague imp]

That's true

[azure bay]

So technically we play as CS from the very start

But

[slim obsidian]

My theory: we got hit by tommy and have brain damage

[azure bay]

So constructive from your side :з

[slim obsidian]

Wait

He killed her

[vague imp]

Do you even know what we're talking about?

[slim obsidian]

My theory cant be true now

[slim obsidian]

No

[vague imp]

We're talking about Rusty Lake, not anime

[azure bay]

So the question I ment was when the memories start to belong the CS

[slim obsidian]

I dont talk about anime

[azure bay]

He's just kidding

I guess

[slim obsidian]

Yea

[vague imp]

Okay, so the question is when the memories belong to the soul, not to laura

Well, if it's Laura's soul, then they're all the soul's memories, just like Caroline's in Paradise

Or am I misunderstanding?

[azure bay]

Welp, since CS has access to memories from its past life it has all rights to identify itself as Laura

[vague imp]

Yeah

But then what about the one outside the window?

Who is that?

[azure bay]

Well

In winter CS gets access to the blue cube

That gives power over the time

[vague imp]

So that's her?

[azure bay]

I think so

Or her killer

[vague imp]

Yes

I think the one standing in the distance could be Laura's CS, although I might be misremembering

The one that appears directly outside the window with the knife, though, is certainly not Laura's CS

[azure bay]

They still may be the same. (it depends on the way you interprete the other things)

Dammit //_-

I've started to create a picture, but it's broken

The Mill

It happens after fall 1971

[vague imp]

And her CS is violent when it's first created?

[azure bay]

I guess it depends

[vague imp]

It's about to kill Harvey

[azure bay]

The thing is

The CS seems not to exist yet at the time

[vague imp]

During Fall?

[azure bay]

Yeah

[vague imp]

Yeah,

[azure bay]

It was created a year after

[vague imp]

So then who is the POV?

THE KILLER

But then CSLaura can enter that memory...

It was suicide.

[azure bay]

Only if the killer is Laura...
It's possible but not that way

[vague imp]

Yeah

Exactly

[azure bay]

Let me explain

There is a way for CS to appear because of depression

Bob is a great example

Twice

Dale is in a way

[vague imp]

In paradox?

[azure bay]

Yes

[vague imp]

Okay, I think I saw a theory about this

And I think I repeated it on here a few days ago

[azure bay]

I could have missed it

[vague imp]

Laura already has depression. That's why she has "Prozac" on the bulletin board. But because Laura is the reincarnation of William, trying to eat Harvey's egg brings back a ton of bad memories

And makes it all worse

Which is why she starts having visions of the CS

That's where the CS with the knife came from

She goes to Rusty Lake (1969) but it doesn't help

That's honestly all I remember

From that theory

[azure bay]

I'd rather not connecting William here. His story has ended. He reached his goal & there is no sense in ruining that.

[vague imp]

Okay, but then why would Harvey's egg be filled with black moths?

And why would Harvey's egg specifically cause things to get worse?

The black moths are associated with CS

[azure bay]

They are associated with negative

Darkness

Death

[vague imp]

That is more correct

[azure bay]

A bad omen

I was researching this symbols

My guess is that the egg just made her insane

[vague imp]

Fair enough

[azure bay]

Maybe it was really containing something bad

But I'm not sure what's the source of that

But anyways

[vague imp]

You were saying? depression generates CS?

[azure bay]

Or just a grief

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

& Laura's inner CS could make her do that

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

But

Only if it was as ignorant of their past as she was

& the CS appearing in the Mill is also a different one

[vague imp]

So in some cases, a CS that looks nondescript is just a manifestation of depression/suicidality

But ones that have forms that distinctly match people are those people?

[azure bay]

Not sure about suicidality

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

I don't see a way to distinct these 2 types

Just observations:

Bob's got corrupted thrice:

1. Theatre
2. PD
3. TWD

The 1st one may or may not be completely real

[vague imp]

I'm following

[azure bay]

The 3d one may or may not be fixed for real (there are some reasons to doubt that)

[vague imp]

Memory extraction gone wrong, right?

[azure bay]

Well

Memory extraction directly took place only in Theatre

In TWD flashback we don't see Dale originally

[vague imp]

So we see that flashback twice, once with Dale and once without?

[azure bay]

There's a secret scene in between

Dale may be seen just on certain circumstances

[vague imp]

Okay

You were saying?

[azure bay]

The case is complicated

This duality may mean that he might not remember Dale there

Or they might or might not meet in different timelines

[vague imp]

The latter being suggested by the elevator time travel

[azure bay]

Yeah, but Bob gets corruped after the shot anyways

It happens in his head

He "sees his memories drifting by"

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

Presented by familiar images

[vague imp]

So whether Dale is there or not, he ends up getting corrupted

Bob does

[azure bay]

What I'm saying here is that looks very much like him in Theatre

1. He stays alive
2. He sits indifferently with no emotions
3. Memories are going away cube by cube
4. He gets corrupted

[vague imp]

Understood

So they are more or less equivalent events

[azure bay]

At least I see the parallels

I may be wrong

It looks like kinda mini Paradox for me

While outside he experiences a trans, inside he sees some locations created by his mind

& 2 of these are synced

But that's not all

There's another secret scene

During his weird dream he's guaranteed to meet Dale with a deer mask. & he may or may not remember Dale looking at him in Case 23 that happened in the future if we assume that his dream goes alongside Theatre

[vague imp]

Okay

[azure bay]

Flashforward, if u will

[vague imp]

Got it

When Dale looks at him is also when he becomes corrupted, in that timeline

[azure bay]

Or I'm wrong & the trip happends after his arrest

[vague imp]

Maybe a living person turning corrupted is the equivalent of a blackout or a mental break

[azure bay]

What's more, he could get somehow corrupted simultaniously in Theatre, Case 23 & his dream

I'm very confused 😭

[vague imp]

And Bob got corrupted in Theatre, blacked out and did some stuff he has no memory of, and then got arrested

Possibly as long as the original person isn't killed, the corruption might not be permanent?

[azure bay]

Maybe

Or the depression ones might

[vague imp]

Right

The other one only seem to happen after someone dies anyway

The Eilanders all get reincarnated and then killed

Laura is corrupted after she dies

[azure bay]

The one last detail. Bob remembers Dale from Case 23 asking him for his memory

[vague imp]

Weird

[azure bay]

Maybe not

We know Dale was researching the lake

[vague imp]

Maybe surrendering his memory is how Bob gets corrupted in the station?

Or does it not work like that?

[azure bay]

Mr. Owl mentioned a challenge for Dale

"if he finds the cubes, you may take him to the cabin"

[azure bay]

That was after his corruption

[vague imp]

Never mind

[azure bay]

So my guess is that Bob could be contained by the lake crew & sent to the PD to give Dale the cube

[vague imp]

The lake crew being Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow

[azure bay]

Yeah

[vague imp]

Okay

Here's a question

Never mind, it was a dumb question

[azure bay]

One man said that there is no dump quetions - only dump answers

[vague imp]

And this woman is changing her mind about asking the question.

Good talk. How about we call it an afternoon?

Thanks for explaining so much stuff to me

[azure bay]

I highly recommend you trying to do a research of your own

I want to consider many-many versions

Even the ones I don't want believing to

But I'm just at the start of my journey to this objectiveness

Ok. Cya later. I hope, I'll find some time. It's period of my mid-year exams

[vague imp]

Happy studying and good luck on your tests

[azure bay]

Thx

[simple gyro]

hi ive been working on some theory things

i’ve been doing a lot of outside research into religions

i don’t know how the game ties to religion but i’m pretty sure it does

wait am i allowed to talk about religion in relation to the games?

[desert marten]

the mythology of rusty lake draws on buddhism a lot

[simple gyro]

there are a lot of connections to religion and i will list the ones i’ve made here. some of them are strong and some of them are theoryish

• 10 plagues in the bible
• black egg: the story of ōwakudani and that area in japan
• || caroline burned at the stake|| : the salem witch trials
• rabbits (mr rabbit specifically): represent rebirth in both christianity and buddhism
• || nick sacrificing his son || the story of abraham
• tarot cards and voodoo dolls
• samsara itself literally means the cycle of death and rebirth
• cubes could relate to metatrons cube
• paradise island could be a reference to paradise as in the afterlife
• lots of sanskrit in the game translates to stuff like demon, god, hell, rebirth, etc

that’s kinda what i have rn but i wish i knew how it directly related to the plot

i can go more in depth about stuff but i’m thinking it’s all kind of related to a cult type mindset in this family?? like the whole drinking the elixir and becoming immortal kinda reminds me of the kool aid cult thing lol

[desert marten]

themes of rebirth and reincarnation are extremely important to rusty lake

biblical references are super common in media coming from christian areas

[simple gyro]

yea i’ve noticed, i just wish i knew why these themes were important

[desert marten]

tarot isn't inherently religious actually, and voodoo dolls are probably just in there to be spooky

[simple gyro]

true, but tarot cards are usually related to wiccan/pagan stuff

[desert marten]

paradise island as the afterlife makes absolutely no sense to me

[simple gyro]

fair, it was more just the name for me

[desert marten]

and i would say tarot is related to witchcraft, but not wicca

[simple gyro]

fair

but i think the story of ōwakudani has an interesting tie to rusty lake

there’s a legend surrounding black eggs there and if you eat one your life will increase by 7 years

the story ties into buddhism too

[desert marten]

there are some interesting similarities there

the black egg is semi-associated with hell in the games, especially seasons

[simple gyro]

WAIT THAT TIES INTO IT EVEN MORE

[desert marten]

and it's also one of the ingredients in the elixir, so it being thought to cause longevity is interesting

[simple gyro]

Upon seeing the hellish scenery, when Koubu Daishi visited Owakudani more than a thousand years ago, he offered prayer to Bodhisattva

“hellish scenery”

[desert marten]

yeah i was just looking at wikipedia

ultimately, the only reason you selects a theme is if it matches the mood you're trying to create

[simple gyro]

oh cool!

[desert marten]

so the creators of rusty lake chose cycles of reincarnation as another way to express the sort of stuck-ness inherent in an escape room

some buddhist teachings just happened to be relevant, so they got referenced to help convey the concept

[simple gyro]

oooooooh omg

that makes sense

wow y’all are super smart

[desert marten]

owakudani related stuff also got roped in to convey another aspect of the series' emotional space

that is, the horror element

[simple gyro]

i see

[astral frost]

I know Devas and Asuras live in a Paradise-like dimension

And, since Jakob and the Eilanders reached enlightenment, this could be the reason why their island is called Paradise

[azure bay]

what to do with the island being named like this long before they all got enlightened?

[astral frost]

Maybe it's just a reference to the existence dimension of the asuras/Devas

But remember the inhabitants of the island used to make sacrifices

We see a big group of people making a sort of ritual in the painting during the 9th plague

And Caroline too was linked to a form of deva/asura, even if we don't know which stage she was in

[azure bay]

what time period are you unsure about?

[astral frost]

No no, I mean she totally looked like a Human, but she also had been dealing with the Owl figure

[azure bay]

what figure?

[astral frost]

The Owl one

She wore that mask

[azure bay]

ah, you mean she was associated with the owl like the others Eilanders with their corresponding totem animals

[astral frost]

Yes

I'm starting to think she wanted to reach enlightenment at first, but when she saw Jakob was in danger, she left him that possibility

[azure bay]

I don't really understand how these masks are supposed to define the future form

talking about devas & asuras

[astral frost]

Yes it's strange, normally you shouldn't know your future form when you reborn

But the masks match

[azure bay]

As far as Wikipedia tells, only devas live on the mount Sumeru where the paradise is situated. Asuras live under this mount

[astral frost]

oh ok

but asuras don't live in the Human world

right?

[azure bay]

Not sure but the world is all the same for all 6 realms. But not every creature is able to see them. For me it's like the 4th dimention

[astral frost]

ok ok

[vague imp]

Well, it is kind of funny that Gerard is the big eater of the series and his mask/avatar is literally a pig

[minor wren]

So does anyone knows if "Cube Escape Arles" has something with the timeline or is it just side game?

[torpid shore]

It’s technically part of the story, but I don’t think it actually advances anything, it’s more of a prequel I guess

[astral frost]

In my opinion, "Arles" justifies Van Gogh's suicide with "Rusty Lake rules"

Van Gogh became a Corrupted Soul and then he probably was reborn into something other

[minor wren]

Oh.. ok

And whats the meaning of the fourth chapter in "seasons" because I cant understand it?

[hollow comet]

she reverses her corruption

[astral frost]

Yep

[north pasture]

https://thelakesuite.tumblr.com/post/639118243193290752/spoilers-on-alberts-coded-message-incase-you-were

YOOOOOO HOLD UP

THERE WAS A SECRET MESSAGE??

[covert wyvern]

O ye there was.

[azure bay]

is it decoded already?

[covert wyvern]

I decoded it roughly 30 minutes after getting my card

I just didn't feel like sharing 😉

to be fair the puzzle wasn't hard, a fun trivia quiz!

[azure bay]

fair enough

[covert wyvern]

I just didn't want to spoil it for people in here ;-;

[spice frigate]

Is it okay to show the postcard with said puzzle tho? 🤔 this was on my mind for some time so

[covert wyvern]

ye rainy

RL posted it publicly

lol

but ye before that happened

[spice frigate]

OH i haven't noticed it shdhf my bad

[covert wyvern]

I was unsure if i was allowed to share lol

nah its fine

[quick birch]

First of all Happy New Year guys

I came here to ask something about laura V

Who really killed Laura?
How old was she wen she dead?

[vague imp]

uhh well i think it was ||suicide ||

[covert wyvern]

Im also on that page.

[vague imp]

did she have a confirmed birth year tho? dfnbkdf

[covert wyvern]

I think seasons / paradox mentions it.

also roots

[vague imp]

ah i don't remember lol..

[covert wyvern]

LMAO SAME

[quick birch]

I dont think but as an opinipn she can be 24?

[vague imp]

i mean i think that's personal hc in this case?

[quick birch]

Guess so

Lemme use my math skills....

In dale's birthday he was 9 and there was a bunny man he is albert (I remember like) so Laura was not born Dale looks old a bit laura can be younger than dale I think she is 30-35

[fickle cedar]

She was born in spring 1935!

So she was 36 when she died

[azure bay]

she was conceived in spring 1935, if we believe Roots. Then the time was shown to be fast-forwarding, so date in Paradox must be a mistake. But it does not change much concerning her age.

[fickle cedar]

I assumed she was born almost instantly, like Rose

But yeah either way she's mid thirties

[azure bay]

I don't think Rose was born that fast. Roots in general tends to crowd events & squeeze the time

[fickle cedar]

Yeah plus the circumstances around Laura's and Rose's birth were very...unique

[hollow flare]

don't remind me of the circumstances revolving rose's birth .. 😰

i fear the day any other rusty lake character requests that i pass them a jar

[azure bay]

Rose's birth was more regular - just required an environment that was created chemically. No rituals, no dark magic.

Laura's case did have them but it still needed time to pass.

[brave comet]

Is ||Dale the killer|| ?

Did not quite get what Paradox wanted to show at the end of it

[covert wyvern]

The thing w/ paradox is

is that it all plays out in Dales head.

[brave comet]

He's on ||the machine from Cave||

[azure bay]

& this may or may not reflect the reality

[covert wyvern]

Exactly^

[brave comet]

Do we already know that every caracter has a ||corrupeted soul, like Dale and Robert?||

[covert wyvern]

I mean every person can probably have a corrupt soul

these are just the characters we follow in the game

[brave comet]

I see.

[azure bay]

we don't exactly know the nature of CS. They have different ways to appear & may be not the actual souls

[brave comet]

Is it the encarnation of the "bad" memories?

[azure bay]

I think they are not quite. Cause they are able to still contain the bright ones as well

& exist with none at all

[nocturne yarrow]

I think the ending of Paradox might be supposed to show Dale that everyone has the capability to do things like murder because of the corruption within them, not that he specifically killed her

[azure bay]

maybe

or maybe that's the reflection of the choice who gets the enlightenment & who dies

[nocturne yarrow]

aye, that's a possibility

[vague imp]

What makes anyone think that Mr. Rabbit is Albert?

In Birthday?

[covert wyvern]

Mr rabbit is simply Dale from an alternate timeline

(this is partly a joke)

[azure bay]

he was hiding behind the deer skull in Paradox. That does not make him Albert in my eyes