🤔｜theories

[astral frost]

We always thought William/Laura committed suicide

but

In Seasons and Paradox we apparently a CS killing Laura

we also must consider one of the Cubes rescued in Cave shows Laura slicing her throat

So, at least for me, Laura's death is still a mistery, which is probably linked to her whole life

We'll surely understand more in the game about her childhood

[vague imp]

The corrupted soul in this case or her case is a metaphor for her past life or atleast or the darkness related to her past life aka. William. Eventually it consumed her thoughts..eventually killing her. That's my understanding but obviously there's room for other interpretations

[astral frost]

This would mean CS weren't sentient beings, but we have many cases of them attacking other people

For example the 5 Guests of the Hotel

And Mr Rabbit in Birthday

[azure bay]

Yeah, we may interpret death scenes from Seasons & Paradox as symbolic ones & The Cave one as an actual. But if we connect them, we may get a CS manipulating Laura to kill herself. & still, that could be any CS.

Dale is the main suspect for me. Then goes Laura followed by Bob

after TWD I mostly doubt Bob doing that

& Laura's CS killing herself just to undo that some time after makes little to no sense for me

[hollow comet]

Dale killing Laura in Paradox was not real, since Paradox happened in his mind. As for Laura being killed by a CS in Cave and Seasons, both of those are her own memories. I think it's safe to assume that she killed herself, thus remembers it as her dark self killing her. @astral frost

[azure bay]

I assume Paradox while being unreal still to depict the real world in some degree.

for example, Dale sees Bob's book "false accusations"

so Dale killing Laura could be more than symbolic

& paradox' essence could be more global

like Dale kills Laura so the other Dale starts his investigation

but there is no evidence strong enough

[astral frost]

So

Who killed Laura Palmer?

*Vanderboom

[azure bay]

better try asking Rusty Lake 🤣
(please don't)

[covert wyvern]

Well to a certain extent, rusty Lake did 😉 they created and decided to kill off Laura, after all!

[azure bay]

& lore-wise there are 3 possibilities I'm seeing

[astral frost]

I have one more theory about Laura's death and what we see in The Mill (even if I could definity be wrong)

I still don't know if Laura killed herself because of her depression or because of something else

But I think she was aggressive in The Mill (as a CS) because Mr Crow took her back to "life"

It seems Laura died in Case 23, and the intervention of Mr Crow triggered the transformation to CS

It could be the reason of Laura's behavior in the Mill

[azure bay]

that's the consensus, as far as I know

[astral frost]

Btw there's only Harvey, who probably spied Laura during her whole life

So it could be another reason

But this would imply Rusty Lake crew had more involvement in her death

[astral frost]

What I suppose, more specifically, is: Laura someway escaped Samsara after her death(?)

And Mr Crow brought her back

Cause it's the only way I can explain that phenomenon in the whole RL lore, where everyone reborn at its death

[azure bay]

rebirth was the William's plan as well. He told so Rose

[astral frost]

No no

I mean

I was talking about Laura's death

[azure bay]

ah

[astral frost]

Not William rebirth as Laura

[azure bay]

ok

go on

[astral frost]

That's it, more or less

Then Mr Crow extracted her memories and Laura's rebirth was triggered

[azure bay]

tell me please the whole event sequence according to your theory

[astral frost]

Ok

1-Laura someway died, but she didn't instantly reborn (as Samsara would imply)
2- Mr Owl teleported Laura's body to the Mill, where Mr Crow extracted her memories and brought her back to "life"

[azure bay]

So do you imply that the fact of possible lack of instant rebirth may mean the she reaches nirvana & is forcefully taken out there?

[astral frost]

Yes

If we assume Nirvana matches with "non-existence" in Rusty Lake

[azure bay]

I'm not sure if Nirvana is a thing in RL. Usually it's associated with the enlightenment that is reached by a certain way of life. Laura seemingly does not fit it, plus in RL enlightenment seems to mean just a karma boost from the hinduism point of view

but the idea is interesting

[astral frost]

Totally agree

I knew Nirvana isn't like the highest stage of the wheel

Correct me if I'm wrong

But it's just a way to avoid continuous rebirths

[azure bay]

as far as I know, you are not

[astral frost]

But, anyway, that would be a strange phenomenon

Cause apparently every living being is reborn

The only critical point is Laura

[azure bay]

I see 2 ways for us

we either call it a plot hole or try to tie it in the universe rules

like "the rebirth is not instant in some cases"

or "the magic may make it not instant"

at least I can see some a bit similar cases

Harvey, for example, had some time so Mr. Owl could reincarnate him as an actual parrot

& Jacob Eilander himself has presumably died before Caroline's interference

we don't know how long it took for guests to become CS

but we may assume that there were at least some similarities to Laura's case

[astral frost]

Agree also on this one

[vague imp]

I'm still convinced Harvey is not a spy

I know there's more to him than that

He plays a far bigger role than we can imagine

[astral frost]

I hope so, and I'm sure too

[azure bay]

Otherwise I don't see any reason for his return in winter 1981. Laura being back to normal does not seem to coincide with Mr. Owl's plans. (unless Seasons are completely unreal)

[astral frost]

So do you think the events in 1981 are related to Harvey's will, too?

[azure bay]

I think there's in fact a possibility

[astral frost]

Hey

This is Paradise ending

"Our time has come"

Do you think Jakob is talking for Caroline too?

[vague imp]

I think Jakob is talking on behalf of Mr. Crow, Mr. Toad and the bat dude

[glossy isle]

Moreover, we saw an Easter egg in a paradox, when Dale put on the mask of an owl, in the mirror we saw both Carolina and Jacob. And in the same ending of paradise, it was clearly visible that Jacob had connected with the soul of his mother.

I'm like Mr. Owl knowing who I really am😂

[azure bay]

But still Mr. Owl refers to himself as Jacob only

Plus, he seems to have no Caroline's memories

[glossy isle]

Mr. Owl never mentions himself by name. Everywhere they say and burn simply: Mr. Owl

[astral frost]

So the Corrupted Soul in Paradise ending is Caroline

I was skeptical about that

But at that time he probably didn't know Mr Crow and the others

[azure bay]

he shows himself as Jacob

[astral frost]

Hi!

[azure bay]

hey there

[astral frost]

What if Mr Owl reached that stage because of the fusion with his mother?

Besides all the other reasons we already know

[azure bay]

that's the concensus

but the degree of this fusion is subject yet to discuss

[astral frost]

Yep

And we have no hints about that

I think that transformation could be like a passage of relay

Caroline, the previous Owl, leaves her powers to Jakob

And that's what will happen to Dale once reached the Hotel

[azure bay]

I doubt she ever had powers.

but she knew the lake better than anyone

she is believed to be the lady of the lake

the actual one

[astral frost]

Yep

Maybe she didn't have any power, but she was still the previous Ruler of the Lake

She's clearly linked to the Owl, even though it seems she's a normal Human

[azure bay]

tbh I don't really understand the link between masks & asura forms

what are the reasons for them coinciding?

Aldous has almost the same situation

but the crow was on his family banner

[astral frost]

Idk if there's a reason or if it's only a choice to explain who those characters are

[azure bay]

agree

[undone sun]

"the corruped soul doesnt scare me
bc ik they're just made out little butterflies"

wiser people of the lake , is this true ?

[azure bay]

not exactly, I guess

they are just connected

CS, moths & black cubes

[hollow comet]

that's one way to say it

[astral frost]

The moths are someway linked to Laura

I don't know why

But we see them in Seasons, Case 23 and The White Door

[azure bay]

I don't think thay are specifically connected to Laura. They're also seen in Arles & Paradox

In Albert's teaser they are covering the cube

[astral frost]

And to those ones too

Right

In seasons there are some moths getting out from Harvey's egg

So they're almost everywhere hahaha

Yes defintely

But it's good to remember and put together all the pieces we can't explain yet

[azure bay]

I guess they are symbolic

Usually, moth is someone or something that goes for a light

That's why Dale's mind has a moth wallpaper

He is reaching the enlightenment

But

The black moths seem different for me

They are strongly connected to death & corruption

& idk why

This theme probably goes even back to the very beginning

In the original SR they are also present

Maybe they don't necesseraly mean something as bad there

But they swarn the screen as they do in Seasons if you keep the cube above the egg for long enough

[undone sun]

uuuuu that sounds really cool

[azure bay]

Google tells me that there are several meanings for a black moth

Darkness, death, a bad omen, a soul of a deceased mostly suit the examples we have in games

But these are not all

Also some interpret them as fragility, mystery, passion, transformation

[azure bay]

Most of these also corresponds to butterflies

[vague imp]

If you think about it - there are various time points in the game(s) where moths do appear for e.g in seasons- where we created moss for example.
Its weird but maybe these actually mean something.
Even when Robert blew out his brains, there were moths inside his head

[undone sun]

R u sure they are moths

Black moths are huge tho

[azure bay]

These were called moths in TWD

I don't think they would change their essence

A fly, if we consider the plague title

Oh...

After reading about tranformation I've realised that it suits too

At least since Paradox & TWD

In both games they appear from caterpillars

I have proofs about death, because they come from Laura's corpse both is Case 23 & The Mill

I have proofs about darkness as they disappear under projector lights in Sarah's level of TWD

I have proofs about negativity since they are seen alongside black cubes in Seasons, Theatre & the 1st Albert's game teaser

& now I also see a transformation

Fascinating...

[undone sun]

This got me oddly excited

Thanks

[grave stratus]

Not sure if this is the right channel but

I know that the white cubes are from ||good memories|| and the black from ||bad ones|| (We see as such in ||Mill||), but what about the other ones?

In ||Cave|| at the end you ||put three other cubes together|| to create a gold one

(||Black, white, and blue||)

But what about blue ones?

And there might be other colors I don't remember

(If this is the wrong channel sorry)

[covert wyvern]

No no this is the perfect channel.

[astral frost]

Don't worty, it isn't necessary to use all those spoiler marks here hahahaha

Btw

This is basically what we know about the Cubes, even if we found out some apparent contradictions and misterious point in the oldest games

White Cube: apparently it's a good/neutral memory. Its extraction is safe. They are sometimes used after the extraction in order to see what they contain : for instance, Mr Crow/Aldous puts the White Cube found in the Lake in a machine which let him see Laura's trip at the Lake.
Theatre is another example: Dale re-lives a White memory from his past

Black Cube: it's a bad memory. Extracting one of them (I believe the most important one) causes the Corruption of the Soul. It happens to many characters in the games (Laura, Bob, the 5 Guests, Van Gogh, Dale).
There is a remedy: "Face your demons", or, as it was called in Theatre,Birthday and Roots, "Balance the substance of your past lives".
This mean you someway have to re-live and "fix" your bad memories, finding a better sequence of the event which would avoid the traumatic details.
Once you've faced your demons, you re-become Human (as happened to Laura,Bob and probably Dale in Birthday's ending).

Blue Cube: we do not know its origin, by the way his function is related to the concept of "past" and "time travel".
There are some different points of view about the Blue Cube, I'll tell you mine but you can also ask for this to other users.
The Blue Cube appears in Seasons and Birthday: it's apparently used as a "fuel" in order to change the events in the memory. Note that this doesn't mean "the past was changed", but only the memory about it.
This way to fix the traumas is, in my opinion, how Corrupted Souls can escape their stage.

Golden Cube: we do not know much about it.
We only know:
-it was created using Dale, Laura, the Black and White cubes extracted from Laura, the Blue Cube
-it's someway related to the "Future"
-it's someway related to the Elixir of Life and Death, in particular the full one, which Mr Owl and his group are looking for

THAT'S ALL FOLKS

[grave stratus]

Alright

Also I just like the spoiler marks they're fun

[astral frost]

Feel free to tell us your thoughts about anything here

Nothing is 100% sure

We're trying to build something and put the pieces together

[torpid shore]

Theory: The shrimp is the mastermind behind it all

[astral frost]

totally agree

tHe PaSt Is NeVeR dEaD

[grave stratus]

Honestly I loved the implication that in the future he just.. Becomes a fish

Like I know it's probably something about reincarnation or samsara or something but really like

[astral frost]

Yes it's because of Samsara

[thick lynx]

^my favorite bit is that his fin matches his tie

[hollow comet]

how did I never notice that

[azure bay]

We're all blind

[astral frost]

lol

[hollow comet]

I've been thinking about 'The Story Continues' achievement- could it be a cipher? At this point I've tried putting it into so many cipher tools online that I know it by heart.

I didn't get any results, but came across something interesting- shift ciphers, they consist of an encoder text and a number key which tells how many positions to shift each letter by. In this case, 'reubtmoce' was the text and 9827, could it be its key?

I know it's most likely a code to a future puzzle/safe but it's fun to think about nonetheless

[azure bay]

Caesar cipher does not apply

Talking about vigenere one, I struggle to pick up the key

Anagrams with the word "cube" give "metrocube", "cube metro" or french "cube morte"

I did not try choosing other words

@hollow comet

[hollow comet]

how could it when there's a 4 digit number lol

[azure bay]

at the time I was working with the version that these 4 digits might not be the key

[nocturne yarrow]

I just came across that achievement as well, been trying to figure out what it applies to. My thinking is that the code will be able to be used as a password for something in an upcoming game, set wherever "The Golden Cube" is. It almost sounds like a hotel.

I'm pretty excited for whatever it's gonna be about, especially since with the picture it looks like we'll get some more insight on Laura's childhood. I'm also realizing that the mechanical parts that are also in the envelope might be the disassembled components of Rose's gold timepiece.

[hollow comet]

Room #6 was Mr Owl's room

[nocturne yarrow]

huh, interesting. Maybe the Golden Cube is just a modern rebranding of the original hotel?

[hollow comet]

yeah! I always wondered what happened with Frank and Leonard, and leftovers of the rituals such as the timepieces

Laura must've had a weird childhood

[nocturne yarrow]

it's a really nice piece of continuity to have the timepiece show up again, a lot of details like that end up getting dropped. And yeah, their fate is a stupid big mystery, hope this new game shows some of what really happened to them.

[hollow comet]

In a way I feel it addresses the endings of all Hotel (key to room #6), Roots (the disassembled timepiece), and The Cave (Dale was given a golden cube at the end of that)

those are all the major arcs yet unfinished

[nocturne yarrow]

||now that you put it like that, it makes me think (and this is just wild speculation, not much evidence behind it) that maybe the next game will be "The Golden Cube", and take place in two eras of time- 1972, with Dale finally reaching the Hotel, and at some point during Laura's childhood.||

[hollow comet]

oh damn

never thought about that

it would be an awesome arc

that would mean that every members of the Vanderboom family has been influenced by someone else all their lives, and that includes Laura

[nocturne yarrow]

||more information on Laura would be really good, because for all the times we've seen her, there's still a lot of mystery surrounding her. For example- she's the resurrected version of William, but does that mean William literally lives on in her mind, or is it more just his soul? Also, her death is still pretty murky- I think it's pretty clear that it was suicide, but we don't know why she did it.||

[hollow comet]

I think she is William, like with the standard idea of reincarnation, you don't usually remember your past lives, but you are the same soul.
As for why she killed herself, she probably did because Mr Crow's calls triggered Willaim's memories of his own death, causing her to become depressed (she was taking prozac).
(Sourced from the wikia)

anyway, I have to go now.
Good conversation! Thanks for the cool ideas!

[nocturne yarrow]

no problem, thanks for talking with me about this

[bold sigil]

I have a picture of the story continues achievement if you guys need it

[nocturne yarrow]

thanks, that's helpful

[desert marten]

wait which game is that from?

[nocturne yarrow]

It's a secret in the updated version of Cube Escape: The Cave

[desert marten]

oh

[nocturne yarrow]

It's what you find now when you do that secret treasure hunt in the submarine section. It used to lead to an expired mail-order thing.

[bold sigil]

What does 9827 Reubtmoce mean

[pure rose]

We dont know yet

[nocturne yarrow]

that's what we're all trying to figure out

[pure rose]

Suggestion is to note it somewhere and to wait for some future games

As like it was with symbols for samsara room

[fervent maple]

Also want to Know

[pure rose]

Just be patient and we’ll all know for sure 😉

[fervent maple]

Ok😀

[bold sigil]

I think Dalescat was in Case 23

Possibly also in Birthday

Maybe they’re another immortal animal

[fervent maple]

Em,, maybe?

[bold sigil]

So why do you guys think Mr. Rabbit killed Dale’s parents

[nocturne yarrow]

I'm thinking it's for the exact reason that Mr. Rabbit said it was in the note left in the game- ||somehow, killing Dale's parents would free him from becoming corrupted... or something like that.||The note isn't exactly clear about that.

[fervent maple]

I'm not sure, I think the memory cube in Birthday is made by Mr.owl, so it's not clear who did it

[bold sigil]

I’m pretty sure that it was framed as the incident happened to dale and he was reliving and changing his memory of the event

[nocturne yarrow]

||Yeah, it seems like the original incident- someone calling themselves Mr. Rabbit killing his family- did actually happen. However, the events of Birthday where Dale stops it from happening are a fabrication.||

[spice rampart]

Well Mr Rabbit is one of lives of David, right?

[nocturne yarrow]

||From what I understand, maybe the original Mr. Rabbit getting corrupted in Hotel kinda screwed over his entire lineage/reincarnated line of selves, thus why the modern Mr. Rabbit needs to “free himself from this state”.||

[hollow comet]

Mr Rabbit (the one with the mask in Birthday) also appears in the window of the original Mr Rabbit's room in Hotel, which I think is proof that RL universe has multiple timelines and that Mr Rabbit, as a corrupted soul, managed to escape before the others did and is now looking to reverse his corruption by reclaiming the 'substance of his past lives', like he did in Birthday

[azure bay]

Maybe not. Usually you don't give a number to a private hotel room

Plus, hotel seems to be big enough to contain many more rooms

[azure bay]

The rabbit in Birthday may also be a corrupted soul.

1. while he is outside the window he definitely looks like one
2. writings on the chest refer to CS in 2 different languages
3. I can't imagine such a will to escape any other state than CS

[astral frost]

Exactly

What's more, David Eilander/Mr Rabbit surely killed Dale's parents on that day. We have confirmation in Paradox, when we see Mr Rabbit committing the homicide with Dale's past mind

So we can assume Mr Rabbit was really here

The point is: why killing Dale's parents was a substance of Mr Rabbit's past life?

That makes me think Mr Rabbit has a deeper involvement with Dale's familiy

Oh

Just noticed a thing

Dale, Laura and Bob "balance the substance of their past lives" by re-living and fixing their bad memores

But Mr Rabbit isn't re-living a memory

He's really in that house

Why did he think so?

[nocturne yarrow]

Maybe you don’t usually give a number to a hotel room- but Rusty Lake actually did. In Rusty Lake Hotel, there’s a big ol’ 6 on the door of Mr. Owl’s room.

Not to mention that the shape of the tag on this key is pretty similar to the other room keys in Hotel.

[vague imp]

oh..uh sdvmklds spoilers could be well spoilered maybe?

[nocturne yarrow]

ah fair point, sorry bout that

[vague imp]

its k

[azure bay]

The pistol was that substance

[azure bay]

I'm afraid you've mistaken. There is big 'private' sign both on phone & desktop editions

[nocturne yarrow]

ah. Fair point, I forgot.

Was there a "6" sign anywhere in the Hotel?

[azure bay]

Nowhere to be seen (pun intended)

Hmmm

[nocturne yarrow]

hmm. I still think it's hinting at the hotel, because it looks similar to the other room keys.

[azure bay]

Agree

But I anticipate it being a room yet unseen

I've just noticed that thay've finally fixed a font for Owl's letter to Boar

On desktop

So glad they're still returning to the games that old

[nocturne yarrow]

I hope that someday they release a proper remaster of those games- like, making the mechanics on par with Paradox, reducing lag, et cetera.

[azure bay]

I assume the lag takes place on weaker platforms. CEC on desktop has no lag but on my phone it requires to lower the graphics to make it go smoothly

[nocturne yarrow]

Well, I'm guessing they improved the Cube Escape games for the collection, but Hotel is still pretty janky on my computer

[azure bay]

Agree, but I guess we need to move this discussion to another channel, if you have something else to say here. To #🛖｜the-cabin?

[nocturne yarrow]

nah, I don't have much else to say on the topic

[vague imp]

Don't advertise <@&358613639554400258>

[hollow comet]

mods advertising? who could've thought

[vague imp]

Lmao...

I shouldve worded that better apologizes

[covert wyvern]

Damn sorry for advertising

:((

[undone sun]

Lmao

[proper eagle]

Okay so... Just to clarify, what really happened at the end of Seasons? Cause it seems like Laura managed to go back in time and save herself, but she's obviously dead by the events of Case 23, so which is it?

[nocturne yarrow]

My interpretation of it is that there's two timelines created in Seasons. One is the timeline where Laura dies for real, which is the timeline the rest of the games take place in. The other timeline, where you go back in time and save yourself, is one we haven't really explored. So to answer your question, in the games where we play as Dale, Laura is dead.

[astral frost]

I tend to think there's only a timeline, cause many things fit in a simpler way

The end of Season is set in 1981, which is, right now, the most recent date we know about the whole RL universe

Apparently, in 1981, Laura starts the process in order to "fix her bad memories" and escape the Corrupted Soul stage

What's more, in 1981 Laura is in the Lab under the Lake (the one seen in Cave). There she uses the substances of her past lives (aka her memories "fixed", which means she changed the timeline ONLY IN HER MEMORY, NOT IN THE REAL SEQUENCE OF EVENTS: Laura's death in 1972 isn't deleted).

That process let Laura become a Human

I also tend to think there's only a timeline cause many of the theories about multiple timelines in this group are based on the deaths of some characters of the saga.

But we know Rusty Lake is ruled by the Samsara, so a death isn't something "so important" to be considered as a temporal crossroads

Cause many characters reborn in different forms

[azure bay]

I also see similarities with the marbre cube beneath the lake but I don't see enough evidence to be sure here.

The idea about different timelines is not as absurd as many tend to think. Paradox has 2 real endings that completely contradict each other

[astral frost]

Yes I mean that Room under the Lake: they have both the same walls

[astral frost]

But we already know what happens to Dale after Paradox: he ascend in the elevator, and he re-lives his memories

So there is a canon ending

Which is the one with Mr Bat

Right now, there's only one timeline which devs decided to explore: it's the one where Dale reaches the Hotel (and we still don't know what will happen there)

So there's a possibility devs will decide to push forward in the timeline where Dale drinks the elixir in order to let Laura reaching the enlightenment

But right now we have no infos about that

[azure bay]

1. This pattern that makes the walls look similar seems to be mere dust. Have a look:

(troubles with connection)

It also appears on another wall

& some other games:

Then I don't think that 2 white dusty walls should necessarily be the same

2. If we assume that there are multiple timelines all of them are equally canon. Yes, we are just focusing on one of them in at least several games.

But in fact, there is no evidence that each & every game released should share the same timeline.

As far as I can judge, the way of interpreting the green-vial-ending & Seasons as separated from the main one is also legit

Returning to Seasons & The Cave

The only evidence of these 2 locations being similar with yet no disproof is the very last scene in Seasons

The room is depicted as a big white cube with the tree growing nearby & lots of smaller cubes floating around

[astral frost]

Exactly

I'm beginning to think every time we see a room with those walls, it's because the "host" of the memory is re-living it in the Room under the Lake

Paradox happens when Dale is in that Room

Seasons too

And probably also The Lake is a memory

[azure bay]

The Lake is not shown to be one

[astral frost]

Oh yes you are right

It only says I found an abandoned cabin

But I'm still convinced the 1981 Room in Seasons is the one under the Lake

[azure bay]

I don't see similarities directly between Seasons & Paradox.

Dale is inside his mind, Laura - inside her memories

No one seems to guide her

& no loop takes place

A funny thing

I've already heard all of your arguments above. A friend of mine has come to those independently

A good sign by me

[astral frost]

Nice

Btw, Seasons is an old game

I definitely could have interpreted it in a wrong way

Are there any news about the new game?

[azure bay]

No :c

@astral frost could you please try to do some extra research to prove your theory? That's actually a very interesting idea

[astral frost]

Yes

Well

Lots of my theories are based on what I saw during the games

I just try to take the less unlikely ones

Ok so

We still do not know much about Laura after the Mill

She went Corrupted, and she was probably angry because she discovered Harvey was spying her during her whole life (and maybe because of other things about her death, it's still misterious to me).
What I'm saying is: she surely knew something that is still obscure to us players

Btw

She was angry

That's the first point

[ivory girder]

The end.

In Cave, she is half-corrupted and half-normal

Right?

[astral frost]

Mm

I don't know

Also Dale is half Human and half CS

[ivory girder]

And in Theatre, when Dale saw him in the mirror he suddenly became into a corrupted soul for like 1 sec.

[astral frost]

So it probably means they are transforming

[ivory girder]

Hmm

[astral frost]

Because we only know Laura is Corrupted in the Mill

And then she goes in the room under the lake

We don't know if she goes there on purpose

Or if Mr Crow succeeds in trapping her

[ivory girder]

Are the cubes that were extracted in Mill the same one that floating in Cave?

[astral frost]

Yes

[ivory girder]

What about the blue cube?

[astral frost]

They are Laura's two memories

I wrote a long comment about the cubes

Wait a moment

[ivory girder]

Birthday happened after Cave right?

[astral frost]

It starts here

[ivory girder]

Thanks.

[astral frost]

We assumed that, there's nothing for sure

[astral frost]

At least that's my vision

[astral frost]

The second point is: Laura goes in that Room under the Lake. I think she experiences something there (Idk if Seasons memories or other)

[ivory girder]

And so does Dale

[astral frost]

But I think that, many years later (in 1981) Laura manages to fix her memories by using the machineries in that room

There's a huge time span between those events

So I wonder what Laura did there

Was she trapped?

[ivory girder]

The timeline stopped in 1972 since

Theatre and nothing happened

after that

[astral frost]

And then there's Seasons ending

In 1981

[ivory girder]

9 years span

Hmmm

[astral frost]

Yes

[ivory girder]

There must be A LOT going on in that 9 years

[astral frost]

That's what I think too

[ivory girder]

And we probably need 9 years to know what happened 🙂

[astral frost]

And that could be an argument against my theory

[astral frost]

Season Room in 1981= Room under the Lake

[ivory girder]

Hmmm

In the ending, we are playing as Harvey coming back to the Room right?

[astral frost]

In seasons?

[ivory girder]

Yeah

[astral frost]

Nope

In Seasons we play as Laura

[ivory girder]

But I mean the end

[astral frost]

Yes

[ivory girder]

The whole gameplay is obviously we play as Laura

[astral frost]

In the end, Laura uses the substances of her past lives and she puts them into that machine to reborn

[ivory girder]

No I mean the last scene

We SEE Laura

We must be something else

[astral frost]

Oh you mean that one

[ivory girder]

not Laura herself

[astral frost]

I never considered that scene

I only thought it was a cool scene to show her

Lol

But it could be something else

[ivory girder]

It could be Harvey flew back to the Room

To give her a flower?

[astral frost]

Maybe yes

[ivory girder]

Is the death of Harvey in Fall even real? We see it again in Mill

At that point she is corrupted

So that mean it is before Winter

So why Harvey is able to be there?

[astral frost]

You're right

That's a contradiction

[ivory girder]

Probably a fake death

[astral frost]

If we assume that the first time we play Laura's memories in Seasons, we're living them as they really happened, Harvey should be dead

And he shouldn't be at the Mill

It's strange

[ivory girder]

Hmmm

[astral frost]

Because the second time we play them, Laura fixes that memory by letting Harvey escape from the cage

Preventing his death

[ivory girder]

Strange

And, Laura only became a CS in Mill right?

So who are we in Fall?

[astral frost]

Laura re-living her memories

Probably when you re-live your memories, you remain in your actual stage

In fact, in Theatre Dale is half-corrupted

[ivory girder]

So you mean that when we play it's not the actual Fall but only her memories?

[astral frost]

Yes yes

That's for sure

In Seasons you are living memories

[ivory girder]

Oh "pick your memories"

[astral frost]

Yes

And then "What do I remember?"

[ivory girder]

But then the Mill/Harvey thing is still kinda messed up

We play as Mr.Crow in Mill so it must be what actually happened in Mill not memories

[astral frost]

Yes

You could can justify it in that way: the memories were modified

But I don't like it very much

[ivory girder]

🙂

In Fall, we are not even Laura so yeah

[astral frost]

?

[ivory girder]

I mean the real Laura in what actually happened in Fall is dead and not a CS yet

[astral frost]

Oh yes

[ivory girder]

So she could make up memories

or the memories are modified

[astral frost]

I like it more

[ivory girder]

So what actually happened is probably Harvey escaping from the cage and flying to Mill

[astral frost]

Probably yes

[ivory girder]

My bad English 😦

[astral frost]

No no I understand

Don't worry hahahah

[ivory girder]

But why did he need to fly to the Mill? To report what happened with Laura to Crow?

[astral frost]

Yes

I think so

And then Mr Owl teleported Laura to the Mill

[ivory girder]

Then Dale was there

And thinking bout the lake and stuff

Things are getting interesting

[astral frost]

Definitely

[ivory girder]

So what we have been talking about is our theory for what is really going on after Laura killed herself

Interesting

Do you think Dale putting the cubes into the TV is real? (in Case 23)

[astral frost]

Maybe yes

Well, he was teleported to the Chapel

After all

[ivory girder]

So the white cube must be from somewhere in Bob's head

[astral frost]

No no

Those 2 cubes are from Laura

[ivory girder]

I think the black one is Bob was corrupted then he left a black cube to Dale?

Right?

[astral frost]

Right

I don't remember anything sorry

Hahaha

[ivory girder]

.

[astral frost]

The white one comes from that tv

[ivory girder]

When we put the code into the TV somehow Laura appeared and gave us a white cube

It could be the good memories that Bob had with Laura I guess?

The TV is like an extracting memories machine I also guess?

[astral frost]

But we saw Bob's scene in the latest game

And even there we only saw the black cube from him

[ivory girder]

"I need your memories"

Dale do say that

[astral frost]

Yes

He referred to the Black Cube

[ivory girder]

Then what about the white one? Dale must do something to Bob to get that white cube. It can't just came from nowhere

[azure bay]

Not only Harvey is acting strange between Seasons & The Mill. Laura does as well

here're some questions to help you realize that:

Is she dead in fall 1971?

[ivory girder]

Yes

[azure bay]

Is she corrupted then?

[ivory girder]

No

[azure bay]

how's so?

[ivory girder]

Because only after she is extracted the black cube in Mill she became corrupted

Before that she is just a dead body

No more, no less

[azure bay]

& how did she kill Harvey?

how did she remember collecting her own funeral card?

[ivory girder]

As I mention in the previous post, 1) She made up the memories about killing Harvey or 2) The memories are modified

What we all see in Fall is memory

The whole Seasons is just memories

[azure bay]

you make these assumption all because you are confused & can't come up to another answer, don't you?

[ivory girder]

Bruh I have just talked with @astral frost the whole 15 mins ago about that

[azure bay]

I'd appreciate the link to the starting line

please?

[ivory girder]

Yes, these are my assumptions aka theories

This is the place to post your #🤔｜theories right?

[azure bay]

I don't accuse you

I just wonder if you have evidence

[ivory girder]

Well I think that made sense so I post that

[azure bay]

ok, thx for explanation

[azure bay]

in fact, that's not a bad thing

[ivory girder]

This is the starting line we started talking about Laura/Harvey thing

[azure bay]

it just means that we still can try to find another answer as freely as before

thx

appreciated

[azure bay]

I'd like to thank you once more. You helped me to formulate another way of thinking theories.

studying how people think is fascinating for me

[proper eagle]

Okay so I've been thinking... It seems like a lot of people think that the white Mr Rabbit in Birthday is different from the brown Mr Rabbit (David) in Hotel. But in Paradox chapter 2, you have to call "The Magician, D. Eilander". And when he arrives we see that he's the same Mr Rabbit that killed Dale's parents. So are they the same? If so, why the different designs?

Hope this was legible lol

[hollow comet]

I think Paradox's Mr Rabbit is the same as in Birthday, though Paradox is an altered memory, I don't see a reason to implant a fake Mr Rabbit.
As for David in Hotel, he never managed to escape. Mr Rabbit (the one from Birthday) shows up in his room window.

[nocturne yarrow]

I think that all the rabbits through the games- your brother in Paradise, Mr. Rabbit from Hotel, and D. Eilander from Birthday and Paradox- are different people, though possibly reincarnations in the same line of people who fill the "rabbit" role.

[proper eagle]

But it says in Paradox that Mr Rabbit's name is David Eilander?

[nocturne yarrow]

That's a bit odd honestly, but maybe he's a descendant of the Eilander family.

it's still strange that they'd have the exact same name though

[proper eagle]

And the same animal motif

[hollow comet]

I said 'never managed to escape' but if you tap on his corrupted soul in Hotel (just watched it again lol) his masked version shows up

so he did escape, although he (presumably) reversed his corruption to some extent, because there's no way corrupted souls can wear suits

[nocturne yarrow]

Now that I'm thinking about it, I don't really know what the deal is with the modern Mr. Rabbit, but I still think that Mr. Rabbit from Hotel is the reincarnation of David Eilander from Paradise. The same goes for the rest of the animals in Hotel- they're new incarnations of the characters from Paradise.

apologies if I'm saying this all in a confusing way, I'm a little unsure how to coherently explain the concept

[hollow comet]

I should think so too, if they were burned alive like Jakob, it is reincarnation by definition

[nocturne yarrow]

My theory is that there's incarnations of every animal in the modern era as well, though we have yet to meet most of them. For example- in Paradox, there's a bunch of deer imagery, which makes me think that Dale is the new incarnation of the "deer".

[hollow comet]

that would imply that the Eilanders' souls escaped the lake

we did see all of them in Cave (which happens during/after Paradox)

we saw a deer, right? or am I misremembering

[nocturne yarrow]

All the animal souls were present in Cave

I should note those are the souls of the victims from Hotel- though if they are indeed ressurections of the Paradise cultists, they're also the souls of those folks.

[hollow comet]

right so, they haven't escaped, at least not in this timeline (??) but we also saw Mr Rabbit's soul and we know he's out and about

[nocturne yarrow]

I think the Mr. Rabbit from Birthday has something to do with blue cubes and time travel, which is something that hasn't really been explained much

[hollow comet]

yeah, it seems that even after reincarnation, you're the same 'soul'. I mean Laura's memories as William only surfaced when triggered by Mr Crow. Mr Owl seems to remember everything, he is still Jakob in a way

but the Eilanders don't seem to remember anything

they don't even appear to know each other in Hotel

[nocturne yarrow]

Yup, that's resurrection for you. I also think that resurrection is somewhat random- the characters from Hotel seemed to be random folks from all around, with no prior relation to the lake. So either Mr. Owl had to track down the people that the souls of the Eilanders went into, or he somehow made these people into the vessels of those souls.

I'm thinking it might be the latter, as with Dale we see that the deer soul is still obviously roaming around the lake, but he seems like he's next in line to be the "deer".

[hollow comet]

it is random, as it is with memories. It could be that all of a reincarnated soul's memories are suppressed, they only need a trigger, as it happened with Laura. The Eilanders were only needed for meat and nothing else, so reminding them of their past shouldn't have been necessary

as for Mr Owl, he's 2 souls in one. His mother was already a corrupted soul. Maybe that's why he went through some altered process?

[hollow comet]

right, Ms Pheasant has already took on 'The Lady of The Lake' title

[nocturne yarrow]

Wait, are you saying that the singer who shows up in theatre is supposed to be the new version of ms. pheasant? Or am I misinterpreting?

[hollow comet]

possibly, I thought the one in Theatre might've been the original

[nocturne yarrow]

You might be right. Something else I was thinking- I don't think that Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow really figure into the resurrection cycle, due to their immortality. That might be their whole reason for wanting to be immortal- a desire to break free of the loop.

[hollow comet]

it's highly likely that there's a cycle, with all 'ruler of the Lake' stuff and some rogue timelines (Mr Rabbit)

but Mr Crow and Mr Owl aren't immortal

Mr Owl is going to turn into a fish at some point

[nocturne yarrow]

I'm just waiting for Cube Escape: Fish, where you play as Mr. Owl swimming in circles for an hour

[hollow comet]

Mr Owl Fish when it's already dinner time and none of the guests are dead

[nocturne yarrow]

Here's a theory- the reason Mr. Owl was in a diving suit in Cave was because he was training for his inevitable fishification

but he's kind of awful at it, thus the rip in his air tank

[hollow comet]

'fishification' thanks for introducing me to this word

[proper eagle]

Isn't that Elizabeth Eilander?

[nocturne yarrow]

I think quantum meant Ms. Pheasant from Hotel, though of course I can't say for certain

[proper eagle]

They escape in the secret Birthday Easter egg

[hollow comet]

Elizabeth and Ms Pheasant are the same person, for all practical purposes. She never shows up in Theatre though, I meant that Ms Pheasant might be a successor to the 'original' Lady of the Lake (the woman who says "balance the substance of my past lives" in Theatre)

[hollow comet]

They did escape Mr Owl's confinement, but as Cave showed us, they are still trapped in the Lake. Mr Rabbit is the only one who seems to have found a way out

[azure bay]

I'm not sure if the are trapped. They may just live there from then on

just nowhere else to go

(pun intended)

[astral frost]

They are OBVIOUSLY the same one guys

What we see in Paradise is clear

Devs wouldn't had put there a reference to the 5 guests without a reason

[covert wyvern]

using the word obvious in RL lore is a bold move 😉

[astral frost]

Hahahaha

[astral frost]

But this is for sure

[azure bay]

let's say, the parallels are quite strong

but really, there is no direct evidence

that makes many doubt that

or at least some

another day I've been debating with a guy why I don't believe the easter egg boar from paradise becoming Mr. Boar despite them looking almost identically

so no matter how obvious the thing may be, how many proofs you may bring up, someone out there will still not believe you

[nocturne yarrow]

It would be a little odd for a random boar on Paradise to become Mr. Boar, considering that he was apparently a diplomat of some kind with no prior connection to the Lake.

[azure bay]

the neighbor incarnations don't necessarily share the connections

Gerard is believed to be reborn as Mr. Boar

& he is connected

[nocturne yarrow]

I do think that Mr. Boar is part of the same "line of reincarnation" as Gerard, but I don't really know what you mean "neighbor incarnations".

[azure bay]

the previous life & the present one

or the present one & the next one

[astral frost]

Yes, Gerard wasn't the most suitable one to be an ambassador indeed.

But remember Miss Pheasant was an actress

And Mr Deer was a researcher

Not so much in common with the personality depicted in Paradise

By the way, Paradise is setted in 1796, while Hotel events happens many years later

Once reached the enlightenment, the Eilanders could have done what they wanted to do

[astral frost]

Moreover, I must say there are some equals elements between Eilanders and the Guests

For example, Nicholas was the one who engaged in discovering things about Caroline's memory.
Mr Deer similarly made researches, about the Hotel and what was under it

Mr Boar was grumpy and he liked burgers, such as Gerard

David was a very strange guy, he could eat frogs and make them re-appear and transform into a giant fly.
Mr Rabbit was a magician. I think they are very similar indeed

It would be very strange that Eilanders and the Guests were different characters.
Moreover, devs would have never done such a confused thing in Paradise

Assuming this is theory channel and we can consider true everything and the opposite of everything, I believe the theory based on the fact that Eilanders became DemiGods lets us building something at least

[nocturne yarrow]

My theory is that the hotel guests are completely different people, they just fill the same animalistic roles as the Paradise cultists.

Sure, they have similarities, but they aren't the same people, or necessarily even related in any way other than being represented by the same animals and also taking part in Mr. Owl's schemes.

[astral frost]

So why would Mr Owl had killed them?

[nocturne yarrow]

that's a bit more complicated, I'll be typing for a bit

[astral frost]

Don't worry🙌

[nocturne yarrow]

It's a bit unclear, but I think that Mr. Owl discovered that you can create the Elixir of Life and Death through the "paradise" ritual. He'd have figured this out through the events of Paradise- going through all that with the 5 animal figures (his family) caused the Elixir to be created, turning him into Mr. Owl. The events of Hotel are a re-enactment of that ritual to create a new batch of Elixir. This is shown by the line at the end of Paradise- "Paradise shall rise again" combined with the silhouette of the Hotel- combined with the hotel guests being the same series of animals as in Paradise. For whatever reason, in order to make the elixir this time, Mr. Owl had to kill the animals and contain their souls.

[astral frost]

But the elixir wasn't created and no one reached enlightenment there

Mr Owl only killed them and extracted their memories

[nocturne yarrow]

fair point, there's also the possibility that all this is more meant to "balance the lake" instead of just making elixir

so nobody reached enlightenment because of Hotel, but maybe the lives of those who've drunk the elixir were extended

There isn't much evidence for that last thing, it's just my best guess at the moment

[astral frost]

Yep

I believe Mr Owl only needed some memories to feed the Lake

As he said in the letter sent to Mr Crow:"The Lake desires fresh memories"

[nocturne yarrow]

so maybe Hotel was just another case of them doing that- putting new memories in.

[astral frost]

Yep

But I also believe Eilanders are the Guests

So in that cade Mr Owl would have achieved his revenge

[nocturne yarrow]

I have to disagree. If the Eilanders were the guests, you'd think that they would show some sign of remembering their old home. Not to mention that some of the older characters like Jakob's dad and grandmother would probably be dead by Hotel.

I'm sticking with the theory that the guests are the reincarnations of the Eilanders, carrying on their animal symbols

[astral frost]

Well, that's true, but Paradise island was totally rebuild (Eilanders house and the others buildings are disappeared)

What's more, once you reach the enlightenment, you probably achieve a longer life

Even the Vanderbooms' dog had a longer life, even if he drank a weak version of the elixir

[nocturne yarrow]

You raise a fair point, but there just aren't enough connections between the characters for me to think they're the same. For instance- you'd think that Ms. Pheasant would show some signs of being blind if she was actually Mr. Owl's sister.

[astral frost]

Morevore, they wouldn't have suspected anything in every case. They didn't knew Jakob became Mr Owl

[proper eagle]

The Eilanders sacrificed Jakob to the lake, and killed his mother, I'd be angry too

[astral frost]

They surely didn't expect a revenge

[nocturne yarrow]

I think that Mr. Owl is taking revenge not just on his family, but every reincarnated form of his family members, thus the weirdness with the rabbit guy who killed Dale's family

[proper eagle]

We know for a fact though that the Mr Owl that killed Dale's parents was named "D. Eilander". Like David Eilander. Like how in the guests=Eilanders theory, David is Mr Rabbit

[hollow comet]

reincarnation doesn't change your soul but it suppresses your memories

[nocturne yarrow]

the "d. eilander" thing is the only piece of evidence that makes me think the "guests=eilanders" theory is possible

[astral frost]

Not always

For example, when you reach enlightenment, you remember your past life

[proper eagle]

Like Jakob and Aldous

[astral frost]

When you reborn as a Human (coming from the CS stage) you lose your memories instead

[hollow comet]

yeah but Aldous wasn't reincarnated, he drank the elixir

[proper eagle]

Fair enough

[astral frost]

Yes

[hollow comet]

the Eilanders burned themselves alive

[astral frost]

No

[nocturne yarrow]

I'm still unsure if the Eilanders actually died in the fire

[astral frost]

They burned Jakob only

He was in the cage

[proper eagle]

They seem to have similar effects though

[hollow comet]

as for why mr owl still remembers his life as jakob, he's two souls in one so ig that would add upto something

[proper eagle]

Maybe he recovered his memories through his research into the lake?

[astral frost]

What do you mean with "every reincarnated form of his family members?

[hollow comet]

I think it's a likely explanation for how the rest of them turned into hybrids. The elixir was only rediscovered by the vanderbooms

[astral frost]

Well, that would be interesting

[hollow comet]

they do, the elixir does grant enlightenment, but it does not supress previous memories, so the person is not exactly 'reborn'

[proper eagle]

Honestly, I'm most curious about Harvey. How did she get reincarnated? She's been around since Roots at least, and she seems to be familiar with the Vanderbooms and Mr Owl

[astral frost]

The fire as a catalyst for the enlightenment

[nocturne yarrow]

I think that all the characters with animals as their symbols are the reincarnation of each other- same soul, different body, different memories. For example- Jakob's dad was the first "deer" we know about, Mr. Deer was the second, and Dale might be the third due to all the deer imagery we see in Paradox.

[hollow comet]

I like to think that she was born as a parrot sometime around Roots, then turned into a hybrid by Mr Owl. During the outbreak, he (?) summoned a light beam to turn himself into a bird again

[astral frost]

Oh so you are assuming there are some archetypes for the Demigods

[nocturne yarrow]

I don't know what you mean "demigods"

I think they're just people, who reincarnate.

[astral frost]

The humanoid animals

It's the name of that stage in Samsara

[hollow comet]

hybrids in RL universe are called /asuras/ which may be equated to demigod

[astral frost]

Yes the hybrids

[nocturne yarrow]

ah, got it

[proper eagle]

Wait... hear me out. Just spitballing.

Is it possible that Harvey is Laura's enlightened form? They share similar colour schemes, and they always seemed to share a close connection. Anyways, it's not like time travel would be a new concept for RL...

[hollow comet]

but /deva/ also means demigod though

[astral frost]

The Deva is an higher form

[nocturne yarrow]

but I suppose that yes, I think there's certain animalistic roles that souls take in this universe. Once Mr. Owl dies, some random person will become the next Owl.

[proper eagle]

He intends for that to be Dale

[hollow comet]

they are at an equal level of 'divinity', I am familiar with the mythology

[proper eagle]

He says so in Paradox

[nocturne yarrow]

aye

but it might not work

[astral frost]

I'm only talking about Rusty Lake's version of Samsara

I don't know the real one in details

[hollow comet]

have they been shown to be a higher form?

we haven't actually seen a /deva/ in RL yet, though

[astral frost]

What distinguishes the devas from the asuras?

[hollow comet]

the frame that says 'deva' in Theatre shows Dale's reflection so could it mean ruler of the lake?

[hollow comet]

mainly the realms in which they preside over

[astral frost]

Mr Owl seems to have magical powers, such as teleporting people and changing weather

[astral frost]

Yes, this is confirmed in Paradox

Dale is the next Deva

In Rusty Lake universe, it seems there are many DemiGods and only one God

Many Asuras and only one Deva

And the Deva is the Ruler of The Lake

What does it mean really? I don't know

[proper eagle]

Also... What is Mr Crow's motivation? In Roots he wanted to revive William. But now that's done, what does he want? He's working with Mr Owl, but he doesn't seem to care much about it, as shown when he processed Laura's black cube in Mill

[astral frost]

I can say you can control some natural events in the Lake area, as a Deva

[astral frost]

Maybe you meant Mr Crow?

[proper eagle]

Oh yeah my B

Two immortal bird men, easy to mix up

[astral frost]

We only know he was involved in Mr Owl's plan to create the full elixir and the golden cube

[hollow comet]

I have no idea what the existence of Rusty Lake implies on the rest of that universe. Like, if they don't keep the souls in check maybe they'll take over the world? lmfao

[astral frost]

Well.. a Corrupted Soul reached Dale's house and killed his parents

So it could be true

[hollow comet]

oh damn

[proper eagle]

Also is Mr Owl the owner of The White Door? If so, what does he want out of it?

[hollow comet]

[astral frost]

They are very likely the same person

[hollow comet]

Mr Owl has a lot to answer for in that arc. People kept prisoner, Dr Hoorn found dead, Mr Owl has all the symptoms of an established crime boss

[astral frost]

Even if he isn't a "person" after all

[astral frost]

In fact, he kept many people imprisoned in the basement of TWD

They had a Black Cube with them

This lets me think Mr Owl used TWD to extract memories from his patients

Feeding the Lake in a simple way?

Seize your patients and steal their memories, no matter what

Occasionally, there are special patients, like Bob

[proper eagle]

I like that

[astral frost]

Bob was needed only for his memories about Laura

Mr Owl wanted to know everything about Laura

Why?

Idk

[proper eagle]

Good question

Maybe because he knows that she's William reincarnated?

[astral frost]

Maybe

[proper eagle]

He was a gifted alchemist

[astral frost]

Right now, we are sure they needed Laura to create the Golden Cube

[proper eagle]

Yeah

[astral frost]

I really believe we'll discover important things in next Laura's game

I hardly believe Albert's game will give us some answers about that

[proper eagle]

Yeah

I'm still hyped though, I find Albert fascinating

[astral frost]

I agree with you about William btw

[hollow comet]

silly idea, but maybe the real reason for them being interested in reincarnated William is because they're trying to know more about reincarnation itself? The elixir makes one person a hybrid and kills off the other, but if the other person can be reborn AND have their memories back (like Mr Crow calling Laura and triggering William's memories), then maybe it isn't too bad

[astral frost]

And I also think Aldous was totally unable

He let William creating the elixir alone

[proper eagle]

Oh and... What's the deal with the deer motif? Nicholas, Albert, Mr Deer, Dale? They're clearly not all the same asura

[hollow comet]

tbf they didn't invent the elixir, they just stumbled in Caroline's cave lab

[astral frost]

Cool!

[astral frost]

If there's someone who can help Mr Owl finding the full elixir, that is William for sure

[astral frost]

Exactly

The problem is

William was dead

And he was reincarnated into Laura

[proper eagle]

Yeah? And?

[astral frost]

We know Laura someway contains some of William's memories (see the minigame in Cave)

But I think the reincarnation should delete your past lives' memories, as well as your past personality

[proper eagle]

Yeah

Maybe they're just vestigial? Like she doesn't know that she's reincarnated, but sometimes she feels like she knows things that she shouldn't, or like something's familiar when she knows she's never seen it before

That's what sent her to Rusty Lake in ten first place. Maybe she just felt drawn there

[astral frost]

That's clear

[misty oak]

How do i find the second cube in case 23?????

[proper eagle]

@misty oak That goes in #cube-escape-series-help

[quick birch]

Hey guys yesterday i played the mill (:cube: escape) It was fun but...I want to know what makes that mill special

[azure bay]

It's been chosen by the lake crew as the base for extracting the memories

it also may or may not experience time anomalies

[quick birch]

Ok

And is SAMSARA ROOM laura's born?

[azure bay]

I think it's more like a transition between the lifes of William's CS & Laura

[quick birch]

But william was dead there

[azure bay]

William & his CS are not technically the same creature

I mean

William was reborn as a CS after his death

& then it was reborn as Laura

[quick birch]

I guess thats right :I

[ivory girder]

After the reborn, did William's CS exist anymore or completely gone?

[quick birch]

I think Williams CS still exist

Can a soul die again

[ivory girder]

Then Laura's CS and William's CS are the same or what?

[azure bay]

RL was partly inspired after samsara & CS have their own realm in the Samsara Wheel
It's subjective but I'd not give a CS its segment if they were literal souls.

Samsara implies that soul of every creature changes its body every time the old one dies. They are not supposed to exist in the world without one. Therefore, I assume that CS is also a form of body

I may be wrong cause RL does not shamelessly copy these concepts

They've shown some big deviations from the original lore

[azure bay]

so I think not really. Because Laura & William also share the realm but still are not the same

If William's CS is gone is quite a philosophical question. It highly depends on your perception of what it means to be William's CS & what it means to be gone

For example, we have Mr. Owl & Mr. Crow who are aware of their previous forms, meanwhile we also have Hotel guests who are seemingly not

If forgetting your past does mean to be gone then yes, William does not exist anymore

or at least his personality

[quick birch]

And about RL HOTEL.
.

Mr. Owl inviyed yo kill them?

To*

[azure bay]

(but it's also confirmed that his memories were still present somewhere deep inside Laura)

[quick birch]

Say If Im wrong I think Mr.Owl really invited the hotel guests to kill them.And Mr.Crow knew it

Or...

Make us kill them

[azure bay]

sure he did invite at least one of them

the others could come on their own

but he was in fact expecting them

[quick birch]

Ok

[azure bay]

many think that this rampage was an act of revenge

[quick birch]

Revenge for what?

[azure bay]

have you played Paradise?

[quick birch]

No not yet

But I downloaded

[azure bay]

then feel free to ping me with this question after finishing it. I don't want to spoil your experience

[quick birch]

Okay then...

[azure bay]

anyway, I don't think it really was a revenge :з

the white cube from the ending seems to me to be the reason

the one that is the key to the future

a prophecy of some kind that Mr. Owl decided to show Harvey

it tells that the detective will eventually reach the hotel on elevator

that's it for now

to further understand the importance of that we should consider all the Cube Escapes released since 2016

[astral frost]

@azure bay I'm still thinking about the famous time skip in the Mill

Does it have a real meaning? Or is it just an error?

[azure bay]

I don't think it's an error. It's either a seamless time skip or an anomaly. But this really requires a thinking for each of 3 versions

[astral frost]

I have a version of the events, and it's based on the letter sent to Mr Crow by Mr Owl

So

Mr Owl says: " I will send you the body of the woman later this month"

This means 2 things

The first is: Mr Owl already knew Laura would have committed suicide (it's possible, Mr Owl demonstrated to know some future events)

The second is: The Mill events don't happen in a day, but in a longer time span

Starting before Laura's death or exactly in that moment and finishing when Dale arrived to the Lake

[azure bay]

The statements seem to be debatable.

1. What if he was keeping the body for a month while preparing it for cube extraction? William's body, for example, could be conserved for a year.

And 2) what if Mr. Crow was able to send a phone call into the past?

Some other events are interpretable in this way too (calls in Seasons, Mr. Owl talking from 1966 in BD, the same call in Paradox). Completely ignoring this slice of possibilities by telling "there is no way for a time travel" is just not wise.

[ivory girder]

I don't know that this is a disproof or a proof of everything you guys said. First, only after we saw Laura's body being taken away from Case 23, we could open the clock, which means that Laura's body probably was not there before, but who knows if Mr. Owl teleported the body right after Laura killing herself or not. We also see Dale being teleported to the Chapel. That means Mill happened in 1972.

Also, we turn the knob of the TV to see what happened next, which I guess that the TV is a time TV and Mr. Crow was changing the time in the TV by turning the knob. That telephone is probably a time telephone (probably the same telephone that Mr. Crow used to call in the games like what you guys said).

Another thing I want to point out is Mr. Owl said he "might have found the one", which means he is not sure if Dale is the right one, but who knows when that letter was written.

And the end, why was Mr. Crow's mouth sewed?

[astral frost]

About the sewed mouth, I think it's just a part of the puzzle

[azure bay]

My guess is for aesthetics sake.
& that also would explain why Mr. Crow sounds like preta

[vague imp]

Hey, I'm new here but I have a mini-theory

The Corrupted Soul in "Harvey's Box" is Mrs. Pigeon

The sequence of events surrounding her appearance is the same as with Mr. Deer in "Case 23:"

1. One of the Hotel animals shows up; in "Case 23," it's a deer, in "Harvey's Box," it's a pigeon.
2. The Corrupted Soul drops the disguise. In "Case 23," the deer first becomes decapitated, probably because Mr. Deer knows that he can psych out a human; in "Harvey's Box," it presumably happens out of sight.
3. A Corrupted Soul with features of the animal appears in its stead; the one in “Case 23” has antlers, the one in "Harvey's Box" has wings.
4. It attacks and kills you unless you can escape or repel it first (the end sequences of "Case 23" and "Harvey's Box" are both timed).
   The only hang-up, or the only real difference, is that the pigeon in "Harvey's Box" kind of helps you by cooing a sequence of notes needed for a puzzle; however, since all it really helps you do is open the box so that the Corrupted Soul can attack you, it doesn’t really count as helping.

[nocturne yarrow]

I agree with almost all of this, but I'll suggest that maybe the animals aren't "disguises" for the souls, but actual animals that act as harbingers of the souls arrival. I this is true, then the pigeon in Harvey's Box helping you isn't incongruent with the theory, because it's just a normal pigeon.

[astral frost]

We must say devs probably didn't know the whole story during Harvey's box development (so they didn't know "who" that Corrupted Souls was)

But they totally re-used the Pigeon figure after

In Hotel

So we could consider that theory true, more or less

at least, we have no reason to doubt about it

[vague imp]

Interesting. Thanks for your input, Winter and Edd. Come to think of it, the harbinger idea does make a little bit more sense than the disguise idea, because we never see Corrupted Souls being able to shape-shift. (Right?)

But that raises another question: why do the animals come there? Do the Souls, like, send them, or connect with them telepathically?

But yeah, they didn't have that worked out yet, which also explains why we haven't seen Mr. Boar or Miss Pheasant again yet

[violet tundra]

Guys i wonder rabbit who killed Dale's family can be Dale? Becaues he was wearing the same outfit with Dale. Am i wrong?

[vague imp]

Not unless he was also there during Rusty Lake Hotel, because when you are about to kill Mr. Rabbit on Night 2, the white-masked rabbit guy can be seen outside the window

Do you think that Dale's travels to the past took him back that far?

Or does the rabbit mask somehow change hands between Hotel and Birthday?

[hollow comet]

there's 2 Mr Rabbits for some reason

[vague imp]

I know, it's really weird

[violet tundra]

Yes exactly

[violet tundra]

Yes could be

[hollow comet]

he might have managed to escape somehow, and that means multiple timelines

[vague imp]

Yes...

[violet tundra]

Yes

[vague imp]

But how?... I think there's some lore hint in Birthday that Mr. Rabbit escapes by taking the pistol, which was the same gun Miss Pheasant killed herself with

And thereby he "balances the substance of his past lives" and can escape the lake hell

But how would he travel back in time to Hotel after that?

The same way any other character does, presumably

And... we don't see his Soul attacking Harvey in the secret snowglobe scene in Birthday, right?

[violet tundra]

That's true

Who is Miss Pheasant? Do you have any theory cause i don't know

[vague imp]

I think Miss Pheasant is Elizabeth Eliander

Eilander*

Because she had the pheasant mask in Paradise

But later in the series? I don't know

[violet tundra]

Oh that's right

[vague imp]

I don't think her Soul has reappeared yet

(Just between you, me, and the wall, I think Miss Pheasant's Soul is the creepiest of all... that neck...)

(Actually, I take that back, it's hard to decide)

[violet tundra]

It's really hard to decide lol

But i think there can be two animals like two rabbits two pheasants two deers

[vague imp]

Interesting...

So a Mr. Deer and then a corrupted soul with a deer head, and they're different?

Or two Mr. Deers?

(Also, isn't it kind of funny that Gerard is such a big eater, and his mask/avatar is literally a pig?)

[violet tundra]

I think so yes because who wearing the masks are changing

I don't understand why are they changing

[violet tundra]

Lol yes

[vague imp]

You're specifically talking about Mr. Rabbit, right?

[violet tundra]

Yes

[vague imp]

And I just remembered that we see Caroline wearing an owl mask in the final cut-scene of Paradise

[violet tundra]

That's true

Also Mr. Owl is wearing that mask that's what I'm trying to say

[vague imp]

Ok

[nocturne yarrow]

My theory is that there's a theoretically infinite amount of each animal, due to them being the symbols of a specific line of reincarnation. For example- Gerard was the first "boar" we know of, then an ambassador assumed the role of the "boar" years later during Hotel.

[vague imp]

Ok

So do you think the animal Corrupted Souls are the souls of the Eilander family or someone else?

[violet tundra]

Yes that's make sense to me

[nocturne yarrow]

The animal corrupted souls are the souls of the Hotel guests, that much is one of the few clear things in this series. There's a hidden scene in Birthday that shows the corrupted souls of the hotel guests escaping from the containment they were in at the end of Hotel, out onto the lake.

[vague imp]

Yes

[violet tundra]

Yeah

[vague imp]

And you don't think the guests are the Eilanders?

Or do you?

[nocturne yarrow]

so sure- those souls may have once been inside the bodies of the Eilanders, way in the past, but they were most recently in the guests. also no, I think they're different people from years later that assumed the same animal roles.

[vague imp]

Ok... different people, got it.

But then how do you explain how they are literally Funny Animals?

[nocturne yarrow]

Like, that's how reincarnation seems to work in the series- once someone dies, their soul goes to a new, random person.

I think the Elixir does that

[vague imp]

Ok

So they got their hands on the Elixir too?

[nocturne yarrow]

I guess it isn't super clear, but maybe?

[violet tundra]

I think they are Eilanders due to Boar was eating too much like Gerard?

[vague imp]

(INCOMING CRACK THEORY)

It was vaporized when they burned the powder made of Caroline's bones, they all inhaled it

[nocturne yarrow]

I don't think Mr. Boar needs to be Gerard to have similar traits- the same traits might carry on through different souls.

[violet tundra]

Yes that's true

I don't really know

[nocturne yarrow]

yeah, none of what we're talking about has enough hard evidence to confirm any of it

[violet tundra]

Yup

[vague imp]

... So then Aldous and William must have made a slightly different version of the elixir, since the elixir in Roots kills one organism that drinks it and makes the other immortal

50/50 chance

[violet tundra]

But i think maybe Dale time travelled and killed his parents becaues like i said before he was wearing the same think and he was upset for doing it

[vague imp]

But what motivation would he have for doing that?

[violet tundra]

I don't know that

Why would he do that seriously

[nocturne yarrow]

...eh, I don't really see that happening. I think it's just a common suit style.

[vague imp]

True, and like we said, they reuse assets sometimes

[nocturne yarrow]

Maybe it would be a twist in an upcoming game, but I don't see much proof for it at the moment

[violet tundra]

But Mr. Rabbits style is different than that

[violet tundra]

I think it's a twist

David was wearing the rabbit mask but the rabbit in hotel and birthday are different persons i think

But who are they then

[vague imp]

Especially since they're seen at the same time...

Because you can't have a person's CS and that person in normal form active at the same time

[nocturne yarrow]

I think we aren't supposed to know who Mr. Rabbit from Birthday is, but it might be a "descendant" in the Rabbit line of reincarnation.

[vague imp]

Must be a time loop thing

[nocturne yarrow]

yeah, time travel is almost certainly involved

[violet tundra]

Yes

[vague imp]

In Birthday, we do get a brief shot of a CS with ears breaking the window

But this is... I think before Mr. Rabbit bursts in and shoots everyone

[nocturne yarrow]

The rabbit in Birthday seems to be in a half-corrupted state, as suggested by their note.

So they might be the same.

[vague imp]

I forget what the note says.

Oh, found it on the wiki

the "substance of past lives" thing

[nocturne yarrow]

something something, sorry I killed your parents but I had to get this gun in order to escape this state

[vague imp]

Ok

[nocturne yarrow]

which is doubly confusing because the gun is, as mentioned before, related strictly to ms pheasant, not mr. rabbit

[vague imp]

hmm

[violet tundra]

Also i don't know who is Harvey i didn't understand the event that happened in the hotel when we entering another date to snow globe

[nocturne yarrow]

Maybe they just reused the asset, and it's supposed to be a different gun

Harvey is who you play as in Hotel, and Harvey's box. She's a parrot.

Who is also immortal I guess.

[vague imp]

Yeah, she's immortal, but at the same time was humanized at one point?

[nocturne yarrow]

Which I think the elixir can do

[violet tundra]

I know that but isn't she is a person we know?

[nocturne yarrow]

Harvey the Parrot is in a LOT of the games, so yeah, we know her

or are you talking about the letter from her in Birthday, because I don't really understand that

[vague imp]

So she started as human, drank the elixir, her elixir partner died, she became a parrot-headed hybrid, and then she was turned into a full bird by Mr. Owl to escape being killed by the Souls?

[violet tundra]

Isnt she was a human before turning to a parrot

Yes i was asking that who was she when she was human

[vague imp]

I don't think we know

[violet tundra]

Yes i think so

[nocturne yarrow]

Since we never see hybrids other than Harvey turn from hybrids to animals, I think that Harvey was always an actual bird.

[vague imp]

Oh.

[nocturne yarrow]

I think it's just "hybrid-to-original-form", not strictly to human

[vague imp]

Wait, but the dog doesn't become a hybrid when he drinks the elixir, he just stays a dog

[nocturne yarrow]

yeah that part is a little odd

maybe that's a special case or something

[vague imp]

Honestly, I think Harvey was a human man, drank the elixir, his elixir partner died, and then he got turned into a female parrot by Mr Owl

Maybe?

I mean, that's the only way to--

Why would Laura name a female parrot Harvey?!

...If she knew who it was

[nocturne yarrow]

Here's my theory- the devs named it Harvey, without thinking about the fact that it's a female parrot laying eggs. When they realized that oopsie, they just said Harvey was female the whole time. Bada bing bada boom, theory done.

[vague imp]

Fair enough

[nocturne yarrow]

I somehow doubt that the elixir is a sex change potion, though I guess we don't know

[vague imp]

I don't think it is, because hybrid Harvey is a male

[nocturne yarrow]

Do we know that?

[vague imp]

He's wearing a men's suit in the 1894 cutscene

[violet tundra]

Yes

I thought that she was male

[nocturne yarrow]

I think the suit is just part and parcel of hybridization

you drink the potion, bam, instant suit

[vague imp]

Okay...

[nocturne yarrow]

(that was a joke, please don't take it seriously)

[vague imp]

Understood

So back to the Mr. Rabbit question

One big question is, can Corrupted Souls visit the past before their creation? Because if so, then that would explain why both Mr. Rabbits are visible at the same time

[nocturne yarrow]

It seems like the white-faced Mr. Rabbit might have gone on some sort of journey through time, showing up in Hotel outside the window, and at the birthday party to retrieve the gun.

[vague imp]

Yes

[torpid shore]

Is Harvey being able to lay eggs actually considered part of the story or is it just to allow a puzzle?

[nocturne yarrow]

It's a pretty integral part of the story, considering they bring it back for Paradox.

It's especially important given Laura's line "We're back to where it all started- Harvey's egg."

[vague imp]

So if I recall correctly, the elixir that made William die and Aldous turn into a birdman was made from Harvey's egg

Right?

Laura is the reincarnation of William, which is why trying to eat the egg had such a profound effect on her.

[violet tundra]

Yes possibly cause we are putting a black egg to the elixir

[vague imp]

yes

[nocturne yarrow]

I don't know if it's actually Harvey's egg, but I like your idea as to why trying to eat the egg started to break her mind.

[vague imp]

(Borrowed observation from those old Rusty Lake timeline videos with the narrator with the weird European accent)

So Harvey is immortal, probably from being a test subject for an earlier version of the elixir

Or it's a different black egg and Harvey is somehow linked to it

[nocturne yarrow]

We don't know what Harvey's actual origins are, right?