#🤔｜theories | Rusty Lake | Page 93

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:02 PM

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or either be his citetion from The Mill

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but "Find me in the past" line (that existed long before achievements were introdused) seems to be her own message to another herself

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:04 PM

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@azure bay this clears a lot up and makes more sense to me. So what I'm reading online is wrong 😒

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:04 PM

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what are you reading?

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

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The full story on wiki/reddit

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I got confused with certain things and I wanted to look it up

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

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these are opinions of other people

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this is mine

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

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Yours is better 😊

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

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probably

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 5:06 PM

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So,the one who called her about the corrupted soul was her future self?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:06 PM

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but I still try to consider other's interpretatons if they have some evidence base

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So,the one who called her about the corrupted soul was her future self?
@spice rampart I think so, but it could be inspired by Mr. Crow

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a retcon might have also taken place btw

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:10 PM

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Sounds like Mr crow is a puppet and mr owl is pulling the strings, his plans sound convoluted - but maybe its Mr Owl's plan to keep his family's promise and maintain paradise Island, I'm not sure if I'm correct though

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Mr Crow executes Owl's orders but he also may have his own plans

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& they seem to be friends considering how Owl speaks to him in The Cave

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the Owl's goal seems to be connected to maintaining the lake

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I think you are right here

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 5:12 PM

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About The Elixir of Life/Death,this concept could have been inspired by this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halahala

Halahala

Halāhala (Sanskrit हलाहल) or kālakūṭa (Sanskrit कालकूटं, literally: 'black mass' or 'time puzzle' ) is the name of a poison (as per Hindu mythology) created from the sea when Devas (Deities) and Asuras (Demons) churned it (see Samudra manthan) in order to obtain Amrita, the ne...

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:13 PM

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I'll consider that

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but we the more obvious inspiration is alchemic philosopher's stone

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:16 PM

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the Owl's goal seems to be connected to maintaining the lake
@azure bay

Principally, this was all the work of his mother which he tried to maintain, either she wanted to create the elixir for herself or her family or for paradise Island, but

I genuinely feel there is more to this story that's probably left up to the players imaginations - but I really want to why the elixir was created and why the family was on board with sacrificing their son :/

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:18 PM

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(I was interrupted) Owl is also concerned to leave a succesor before he dies

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I see this sacrafice as a similar ritual to the one with the elixir

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there are some doubts

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but still

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Jacob is ment to die in order to grant them all the enlightenment

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the problem is that there are more than one to be promoted

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maybe It's in the Lake's power to give the one a rebirth as azura

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the case between Jacob & Caroline suits more here

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I even see strong similarities with Dale's case

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:24 PM

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I see

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Dale is just a detective trying to investigate Laura's death, I'm also misunderstood about his deeper involvement with the lake and episode with the white rabbit

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I've freshly played these games so my knowledge is not quite matured 😅

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:26 PM

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I'm not sure how but he is a chosen one

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maybe by them

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maybe by the lake

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or by the universe

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but still

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I also know a guy who theorises about connections between Eilanders, Vanderbooms & Vandermeers

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he has some interesting evidence at least for Eilanders & Vanderbooms

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I personallly don't support grandpa being Mr. Crow

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 5:30 PM

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lmao no way.

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I think they simply reused assets.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:31 PM

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agree, but he has some extra evidences

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:31 PM

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From my perspective, I think there is so much more to the story than we know - but I'd love to see the connections between the families.

Also, thanks for answering most of my questions today, you're theories were magnificent 😊 sorry for being a piece of work 😅 I find myself overthinking the story - I guess for me it boils down to the true intentions of the lake and reasoning behind Caroline's research with the elixir - maybe its more magical and complicated than we thought @azure bay

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:31 PM

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you are welcome

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I think they simply reused assets.
@covert wyvern him being Crow would easily explain his possession of the pistol from Hotel + his bullet hole could become a cube-shaped scar that we see in Case 23

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

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He could also just yknow,

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be in possession of a gun.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:34 PM

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in a more complicated way

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I don't really support this theory because of the different skin tone

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& glasses

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 5:35 PM

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I just think it would be weird for mr owl to send mr rabbit to murder a family including his right hand mr crow.

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:35 PM

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When was Mr Crow ever in possession of a gun in hotel?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:35 PM

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He wasn't but he could grab it back then

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I just think it would be weird for mr owl to send mr rabbit to murder a family including his right hand mr crow.
@covert wyvern I'm not sure whether the Rabbit was sent by Owl

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 5:36 PM

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ah that may be a personal theory of mine then ahaha.

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It's a bit of a stretch but the idea is the following;

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dale sees his family get murdered, and in that moment decides he wants to become a detetive,

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detective*

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eventually leading to him taking on case 23.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:37 PM

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& getting in the elevator as seen in the prophecy

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It's possible considering what a schemer Mr. Owl is

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 5:38 PM

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Ye imo everything is just mr owls grand game of well

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chess, maybe ;p

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:39 PM

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but the difficulty could speak against that

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:42 PM

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@azure bay I'm convinced you're some sort of rusty lake wizard - if I have questions I'm coming straight to you :)

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:43 PM

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alright. feel free to dm me

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I'll try to review your questions alongside with my friends

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they may have another opinions

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Ah! Forgot about the Eilander-Vanderboom connections

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 5:58 PM

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Lol, is it not a thing? @azure bay

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 5:59 PM

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Not that obvious

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& honestly & don't like stories arond a single family

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so

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I've got a tea

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I may continue

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We should focus Elisabeth here. During the Paradise she's in the age suitable to giving birth. If Eilanders were not enlightened as soon as they've sacrificed Jacob she would probably continue her life & give a birth. According to Aldous' file in Paradox he was born 3 years after Paradise begining. So dates leave us that possibility

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but that's not all

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in Case 23 we've seen a weird sequence of different items: a skull of a big bird (similar to Mr. Pheasant's one), that gave us a key to a drawer with jared phetus. After being covered with ink the phetus transforms into a heart. The same sequence we may see in the 1st play of Theatre. A woman, wearing the same dress as Ms. Pheasant while her theme music from Hotel is playing asks balance the substance of her past lives. We need to place the items in the next order: a phetus (again), a heart (again), Ms. Pheasant's hat

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so

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this sequence is clearly connected to Ms. Pheasant, who is reborn Elisabeth

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No matter if the singer is her next form or she is just impersonating her we can go on

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the phetus & the heart go before the hat. That could mean that events conneced to the phetus & the heart probably took place before Hotel that happens somewhere alongside Roots

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:11 PM

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I assumed the singing lady is Caroline which is the lady of the like? I'm probably incorrect but your ideology makes more sense

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Lake*

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:11 PM

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Can I ask who is Mr Rabbit? Is it David,Jacok's brother?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:12 PM

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it's him

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many evidences to be quite sure

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so

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:13 PM

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We should focus Elisabeth here. During the Paradise she's in the age suitable to giving birth. If Eilanders were not enlightened as soon as they've sacrificed Jacob she would probably continue her life & give a birth. According to Aldous' file in Paradox he was born 3 years after Paradise begining. So dates leave us that possibility
@azure bay

Are you saying that elisabeth could have reproduced? And aldous could be her child?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 PM

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yes, but it's not evident enough with the facts I've already given. I need to finish

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 PM

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So David is the one who killed Dale's family?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:15 PM

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vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:15 PM

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@azure bay I'll wait till you're done

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:15 PM

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so the phetus implies a child, the ink covering it in Case 23 could mean a corruption, after that corruption we have a heart

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who's left a heart after his corruption?

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William Vanderboom

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:17 PM

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Yes!!!

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I'm getting chills

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:17 PM

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if he is a phetus, thus he is a child

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:17 PM

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Who? William?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:17 PM

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& his brother Aldous becomes one by association

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But I want to underline one problem

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this theory looks to me a lot like a hardcore conspirology

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there are enough pieces to make a picture, but some pieces connect to each other a bit oddly

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there may be just some coincidences that have no right to affect our perception

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:22 PM

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@azure bay its very much in depth but it is supported by the sequences in case 23 - but only now this has been brought to light by you, dont think anybody would have noticed this.

But - in the mid 1700's where the Eilander's were present. Were there any other inhabitants of rusty lake? Because there is three families in 3 different time periods? Do they not coexist together (this was not shown clear to us)

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:23 PM

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It's not my theory. It belongs to a friend of mine

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:23 PM

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I mean like if this theory is true then how the Vandemeer family related to all this.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:23 PM

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Vandermeers are from another theory

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from grandpa being Crow

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:24 PM

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~~I seriously don't want to think that Mr Crow is Dale's grandfather~~

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:24 PM

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I think future games warrant further explanation of these connections - if there is any connections at all

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:25 PM

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I don't support it neither but as long as there are some evidence we should consider that until we get direct disprovement

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:26 PM

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But your friend's theory seems promising considering the time frame from elisabeth and aldous

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:26 PM

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yeah, but it falls apart as soon as we assume that Eilanders have got their rebirth right away

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I don't support it neither but as long as there are some evidence we should consider that until we get direct disprovement
@azure bay it was about grandpa=crow, if you are confused

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tbh I doubt we'll got all the questions answered. Because every new game answers only some of them while creating several more

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:29 PM

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Also,is James like William's nephew or Aldous'?(Sorry as my memory is bad I don't remember properly)

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:29 PM

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I think both

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:30 PM

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@spice rampart Its not known if James is the son of aldous but he is considered a nephew of William

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:30 PM

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I've evaluated possibilities & he is more likely to be son of the 3d sibling

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:30 PM

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@azure bay I also thought there was a 3rd sibling somewhere

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:31 PM

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as far as I know this is wiki consensus

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Well let me know if you have anymore theories. I'm willing to know anything about anything

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:33 PM

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So,if there's a third sibling,then they presumably didn't participate with the other brothers in finding the Elixir.

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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@spice rampart or they no longer existed

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:35 PM

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we need a place for James to come from

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with no question about Aldous' disappearance

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:37 PM

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If you think about it, we know the origins of every character except the the Vanderboom brothers, there's a lot you can speculate about them BUT the fact that we don't know about their origins is quite suspicious

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:39 PM

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Yeah, like nobody even questioned about Aldous' disappearence. If James was his son he would have did something about it.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:42 PM

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I really want to see the Lake's origin

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20000 b.c. would bring that

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but it's not teased anymore

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:43 PM

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The lake's origin is derived from twin peaks - the story has been created differently for rusty lake but the idea is there

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:43 PM

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What's the purpose of the Lake? To cleanse people's memory or to corrupte it.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:44 PM

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I assume there is none. I even tend to think that the Lake is a creature

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:44 PM

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What's the purpose of the Lake? To cleanse people's memory or to corrupte it.
@spice rampart

I'm assuming the lake survives of people's memories "your memories belong to the lake now"

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The lake is definately some unholy creature

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:45 PM

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So,an entity is living in the lake and feeding on people's memory?

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:46 PM

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There is something the Eilander's knew that we didn't - why did they intend to maintain RL paradise?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:46 PM

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The lake is definately some unholy creature
@vague imp there's another theory though that the lake is a naraka world - some kind of limbo for CS to eventually rebalance their memories, fix their karma & give a better rebirth

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Personnaly I assume that the Lake is naraka creature, but reimagined

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as reimagined as preta, azura & enlightenment

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:48 PM

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@azure bay So I just googled this, Naraka is the Hindu equivalent of hell. This could also be supported by those Hindu symbols we see in theatre

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:48 PM

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I mean like William definitely didn't get a better re birth.

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:48 PM

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If anyone can translate those symbols that would be great but I already have a feeling of what it could mean

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:49 PM

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I mean like William definitely didn't get a better re birth.
@spice rampart that depends on the point of view

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:49 PM

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I know what those mean because I can read Hindi.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:49 PM

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his life as preta is worse than Laura's

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If anyone can translate those symbols that would be great but I already have a feeling of what it could mean
@vague imp I give you english transcription

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:50 PM

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I mean that's true but like he still didn't get a better life even after re incarnation

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:51 PM

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I think we should compare to neighbour lifes

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He died & was reborn as a CS

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downgrade

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Than he struggled & was reborn as a human again

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upgrade

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:52 PM

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Is there any chance that even Dale is someone's reincarnation?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:53 PM

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I don't know whose

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 6:53 PM

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@spice rampart nothing supports this as far as I'm concerned

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 6:55 PM

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no, he is definetely someone's future form. But we likely not to know who is Dale's previous one

spice rampart Oct 26, 2020, 6:59 PM

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Wait, where is it implied that he is someone's future form?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:00 PM

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the samsara concept itself

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a long sequence of rebirths

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& in RL it does not end with so-called enlightenment as it should

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nirvana is not a thing there as it seems to me

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hmm

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maybe you are right

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maybe there is no beforelife for many

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ah, I remember 1 ting

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the very Theatre

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the plays about the past, the present & the future

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talking about samsara

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maybe there is no beforelife for many
@azure bay at least not for many but for a few

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:07 PM

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Good talk guys 😊

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Why are there 2 Mr rabbits? The white rabbit seems evil

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There was whole reddit post with rabit theory

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:24 PM

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any link?

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:24 PM

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And i very like it

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I dont have any

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Bur i remember it

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:24 PM

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is there a way to find it?

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:24 PM

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I think ye

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Wait

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I have it

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https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/comments/9n380b/mr_rabbit_explained/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

r/rustylake - Mr. Rabbit Explained

26 votes and 20 comments so far on Reddit

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Thanks so much!! @vague imp 🤗

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Yw yw

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:29 PM

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I have some things to add

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@vague imp tell me when you are done

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:30 PM

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Yeah let me read it quickly wont be long

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I'm done 🙌

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:34 PM

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alrighty then

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there is a difference between the rabbit in the autoclave in the endgame & the rabbit outside the window

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the last one has got whiskers

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than it's assumed that he's got his rebirth

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I dend to disagree

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because of the rabbit outside Dale's window

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& the writings on the chest

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they say "a hungry spirit" in 2 laguages

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preta

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a corrupted soul

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because of the rabbit outside Dale's window
this one looks exactly like CS & he is highly probable to be the same rabbit that kills everyone (but I still consider otherwise)

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so I assume that the killer is still somehow a CS

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we does not look like one

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but the fact he's got whiskers before his travel back to the moment of his death may make us think that he evolves somehow

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& I don't really understand his will to "escape this state" unless it's preta

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:42 PM

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From what I've read this is an interesting theory but there are some anomalies to it.

I didn't know corrupted souls could take the form of a hybrid?

I think the whiskers and non whiskers deal could be a mishap with the developers (or not)

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:44 PM

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It's easier to create 1 sprite & use it everywhere than forget the old version of it in one of 2 places

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but you are right

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:45 PM

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& I don't really understand his will to "escape this state" unless it's preta
@azure bay

Mr Owl is technically Mr Rabbits brother in hybrid forms - if the Eilander family and hence David (Mr Rabbit) was so accepting of the sacrifices and hybrid transformation, wouldn't he be accepting of the CS form he is in now? I'm so confused

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:45 PM

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stop a bit

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I would not think of them as brothers since they are both reborn. No matter what Crow sais William's CS

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that would make every creature relative to another

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with this logic, for example, I could be a father of even a mother to you in our past forms

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:48 PM

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So they're just recycled souls? In the case of white Mr Rabbit, he just wants to escape his current corrupted state?

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:49 PM

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That's my assumption

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:49 PM

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Ye ye

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:49 PM

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he is still corrupted

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but somehow evolved

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:49 PM

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what is this?Pokemon?

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If that's the case - the white rabbit lurking outside brown Mr Rabbits hotel room doesn't make sense to me. It looks like a very sinister presence

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:50 PM

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If that's the case - the white rabbit lurking outside brown Mr Rabbits hotel room doesn't make sense to me. It looks like a very sinister presence
@vague imp there are many cases of CS watching their past or future forms

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:50 PM

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Woah

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Like in Seasons

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:51 PM

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or Samsara Room

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or even Paradox

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:52 PM

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So what was the purpose of Mr Owl inviting the 5 hybrids to the hotel for dinner? If they're no longer connected...was it to feed the lake their memories? Maybe white rabbit managed to escape through its corrupted soul.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:53 PM

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would u plz call them demi-gods?

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I think it was to get a prophecy

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the one about Dale

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or if he discovered it by accident he could be interested in their past lifes

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Who coined them hybrids?
But I could use demigods from now on I guess, since they have longevity

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:56 PM

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they are implied to be azuras

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that translates either as demon or demi-god

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Where did you get such information? @azure bay unless you did your research

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:57 PM

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wikipedia

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& glossary on wiki

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 7:59 PM

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Cool, maybe I'll have a look at that too :)

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 7:59 PM

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& I may disagree with the assumption that rabbit has escaped before the accident

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it's just not as clear for me

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u know

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thx for questioning

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I stamble across the ones that interets myself

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I'm planning to reanalyse the whole series

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now I'm marking questions that have no definitive answer for me

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 8:04 PM

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I have a very curious mind especially when it comes to theories. I like accurate explanations

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 8:05 PM

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It may be the wrong series for you then. It has a lot of room for free interpretations

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someone tends to understand everything literally

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some look for symbolism everywhere

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I balance somewhere in between, learning more & more, but don't know which of my theories support each other & which contradict

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I'd like to create the whole picture

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but it demands different versions

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 8:19 PM

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@azure bay I find this series the most interesting and I'm open to many possibilities, I love the fact that there's many theories tied to one story but it's just the matter of ground which supports each theory. Evidence is key in this case

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 8:20 PM

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The problem is that evidence can be understood differently

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Sometimes I think that it's approaching the holy texts in its uncertainty

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Like the bible or the torah

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 8:24 PM

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please avoid digging deeper into religion.

azure bay Oct 26, 2020, 8:25 PM

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I no more deeper

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:37 PM

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I've seen you were discussing about Corrupted Soul stage. I've noticed that a Corruption is always linked to a memory extraction, even if there's no death (for example Bob and Dale). The only strange case is about Laura: she's dead, but she doesn't istantly becomes a Corrupted Soul. She transforms when Mr Crow extracts her memories. Does it imply death isn't enough to be corrupted?

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:38 PM

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Maybe a corrupted soul exists outside of the wheel of samsara ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:38 PM

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Btw this would contradict what happened to William, who apparently only died and became a Corrupted Soul with no memory extraction

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Corrupted soul stage is clearly in the wheel

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:39 PM

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I think reincarnation was enough to corrupt his soul

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But I admit I haven't read into the whole samsara wheel too much

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:39 PM

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📎 unknown.png

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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So the lake would be hell? In this case?

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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Possibly

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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Counterpoint; are the animal souls corrupt?

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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And the Naraka form could be a tree-like form(?)

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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And not just "hungry ghosts"

zenith meteor Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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Corrupted soul is also a "Hungry Ghost" and if you think that William is hungry for life or enlightment....

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

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Hence the hotel.

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:41 PM

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Counterpoint; are the animal souls corrupt?
@covert wyvern yes

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Corrupted soul is also a "Hungry Ghost" and if you think that William is hungry for life or enlightment....
@zenith meteor yes but I was discussing about how they reached that state

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:41 PM

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The regular wheel works on karma right.

zenith meteor Oct 26, 2020, 9:42 PM

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In William's case his own desire could have corrupted his soul

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:42 PM

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Not sure how a bad memory is bad karma.

zenith meteor Oct 26, 2020, 9:42 PM

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Insted of memory extraction

solid haven Oct 26, 2020, 9:42 PM

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Maybe seed extraction equals memory extraction in the case of William.

zenith meteor Oct 26, 2020, 9:42 PM

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Maybe seed extraction equals memory extraction in the case of William.
@solid haven that make sense

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:43 PM

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Maybe seed extraction equals memory extraction in the case of William.
@solid haven interesting

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But

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That seed could represent the future family

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Why a family would be a negative thing?

solid haven Oct 26, 2020, 9:45 PM

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Because they suffered.

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:45 PM

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Interesting take:

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Williams soul was fine but got corrupted after reincarnation, because he quite literally murdered his whole family to get another shot at lice.

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Life*

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:45 PM

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So a seed representing the future sufferings of the Vanderbooms could have worked as a negative memory?

solid haven Oct 26, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

Yes.

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

Williams soul was fine but got corrupted after reincarnation, because he quite literally murdered his whole family to get another shot at lice.
@covert wyvern ?

#

Yes.
@solid haven that's a bit strange, btw that's the only extraction we see in Roots

solid haven Oct 26, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

I literally came up with it from the top of my head so yeah.

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Well as I say; William soul was fine prior to reincarnation, but the fact that he caused his whole family to suffer made him accumulate bad karma that ended up corrupting his soul

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

William "started being" a corrupted soul just after his death

#

And he remained in that stage till his reincarnation as Laura(which is Human)

solid haven Oct 26, 2020, 9:50 PM

#

The bad karma would explain Laura's corruption more.

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

I guess he looks corrupt in Samsara room, but he doesn't have to be.

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

I wasn't talking about Samsara Room

#

But i just had the simples idea man

#

In the processo of enlightenment with every sort of elixir, one finds death

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:52 PM

#

Yes

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:52 PM

#

Basically we see 2 human deaths in the games

#

Laura's one and William's one

#

Laura dies but she doesn't immediately become a Corrupted Soul because her memories are extracted later and because she's not involved in the elixir ritual

#

While William instantly become corrupted because he's the unlucky one about drinking the elixir

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

I don't think drinking the elixir causes instant corruption

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:56 PM

#

If you are the one who dies yes

#

That's what happened

#

I think

#

I could be wrong

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:56 PM

#

James didn't end up corrupt though? At least not visually.

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

Right

#

But no one of the Vanderbooms is shown after his death as Human

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

Haha correct! But doesn't bobs body physically change into a corrupt one?

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

yes

#

and so Dale

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

Shouldn't we see that transformation if he were to go corrupt idk

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

But Corruption comes when there's an extraction

#

It seems Death isn't enough in RL universe to trigger the transformation

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

Maybe Laura is fine, (the white cube) and Williams soul is the one that went corrupt (the black cube)

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

do you think there are 2 entities into Laura?

#

Or Laura is just reborn William and doesn't remember anything?

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

Yes, personally.

#

I am pretty confident there's 2 souls in laura

#

That's why she spirals mentally.

#

In my opinion

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:02 PM

#

Definitely one of the strongest theories right now

#

If the next game is really about young Laura, we could discover more

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:03 PM

#

Haha idk I've definitely talked to people who strongly believe "laura" is just William

#

Maybe I'm just too fond of her to write her off as jusr William, but I feel like if she really was just William she wouldn't go out with Bob, of course reincarnation could come with memory loss

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:04 PM

#

And that's also how Samsara really works, I think

#

When you reincarnate as another Human, you lose your previous memories

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:05 PM

#

I suppose people who reincarnate have no memories of-

#

Ye exactly.

#

Idk I just "like" the idea of two souls one hody

#

Body*

#

Just like how I "like" the idea of the games having multiple timelines

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

Just like how I "like" the idea of the games having multiple timelines
@covert wyvern I disagree with you on this point

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

That's totally fair.

#

But I'll never look at it any other way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

Just because this would let the devs do what they want without any logic and coherence

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

Ah but I think I have some idea of distinct timelines

#

Not just like

#

raaaandom

#

It's definitely in its infant phase though

#

Like I want to draw a proper line out one day

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

Cool!

#

Which are the main junction points between the various lines?

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

Admiringly; I did forget the importance of blue cubes

#

I have toAdmit**

#

Ye that's what I'm working on

#

But I think the paradox endings are basically the endings of the multiple timelines / the timelines converging

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

oh ok

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

Another big junction for me personally is the white door

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

why?

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

I, personally, think twd ends in one of two ways; bob remains stuck there

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

those events are pretty linear

covert wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

Or sarah cures him

#

Sarah curing him ends up with him writing a book,

#

Abook that only shows up in chapter 2 of paradox

#

Which makes me think that maybe that's like a timeline there lol

#

Or chapter 1

#

It's one of the two and I sure am tired!

#

But ye it's very unlikely it's multiple timelines but It's just a possibility I want to explore.

#

I'll definitely end up sharing a line if I ever figure it out in detail lmao

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

yes yes try to explore it

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 10:17 PM

#

Oh lord please no multi timelines i will really become a ghost

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

OH NO MR HEDGEOG THE WORST CORRUPTED SOUL

vague imp Oct 26, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

More like Mr.Edgehog

astral frost Oct 26, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

ahahaha

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:59 AM

#

Excuse me, @covert wyvern, for pinging you (anyway u're online) but CS are clearly shown to be a part of the samsara wheel. Otherwise it would put under doubts all the samsara theory & make us lose a big part of info we can rely on.

Thus, there can not be 2 souls in 1 body, because samsara implies to be linear:
William->Soul-after-William->Laura->Soul-after-Laura. The only connection I can see between a person & a soul-after-person is that CS may have access to its previous life memories. Pretty much the same situation is for azuras: Mr. Owl refers himself as Jacop & Mr. Crow as Aldous probably only because they remember being ones in the past life. The hotel guests don't seem to have the same identification.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 8:59 AM

#

Ye I don't really care.

#

lol

#

like I can be wrong

#

and I'm totally okay with that.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:00 AM

#

This is theory channel

#

Lmao

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

also do genuine question;

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

Maybe it'd be rather clever not to spread potentially wrong thoughts without other explanations?

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

It's a theory, I'm more than allowed to share it 😉

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

Ofc

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

this is a theory channel, probably 90% of the stuff written here is wrong

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 AM

#

apart from my clearly deranged ideas,

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:02 AM

#

Maybe it'd be rather clever not to spread potentially wrong thoughts without other explanations?
All theories are valid, whether they are wrong or right

#

Don't try and go "maybe don't share it" when everyone has right to share their thoughts

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:02 AM

#

do you compare the games happenings to the IRL samsara wheel, or are we talking about the one we find in cave?

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

all hybrids are furries change my mind

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

Agreed.

#

RL is a furcon.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

Hmmm

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

the only valid theory

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

This sounds interesting

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

Harvey Is Dale intensifies

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

I mean I wish

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

okay, the only one of two valid theories

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

but that can't be true right?

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:03 AM

#

Sure.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

theories are to find the truth (at least in science) to evoque a discussion, othewise they have no use.

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

if that is true, he had been sending himself happy birthday cards

#

poor dale

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

Well science and games theories are different

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

casually throws in that Laura ate Dale's eggs

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

I am discussing; there are two souls in Laura. the evidence is clear as day: eventual delusional episodes, taking medication for panic attacks.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

so you are not interested in finding truth in games?

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

The extraction of two cubes in the mill, rather than one.

#

Of course I am.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

Everybody is.

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

PU_PepeHmmmSuperInteresting

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

you can say whatever you want here, seriously
I could even say "theory: X is reincarnated Y" because of idk... re-used sprite

#

And that's still a theory

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

but I am als of the opinion that the games simply leaves too much open for interpretation

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

plus, it's Rusty Lake - you can't expect everything to be logical

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

and what would theorising be without an opposition 😉

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 AM

#

casually throws in that Laura ate Dale's eggs
oh boy

#

fategguncle

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:06 AM

#

I think Rusty Lake devs do have a clear story in mind, but they keep it vague so everyone can have their own interpretation

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:06 AM

#

I do hope we'll eventually get more puzzle pieces.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:06 AM

#

And that is awesome

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:06 AM

#

and when it becomes definitive that there was only one soul in laura I'll gladly cast away my theory

#

but for now

#

I have enough evidence to point in that direction, in my opinion.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:07 AM

#

Samsara Room, secret scene, William's soul identifies Laura as itself

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:07 AM

#

so you are not interested in finding truth in games?
I am, but every theory is valid, no matter what

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:08 AM

#

This is how this channel works

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:08 AM

#

is that me? sure, but laura could still also be in that body lol

#

we don't know ¯_(ツ)_/¯

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:08 AM

#

where from?

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:08 AM

#

I

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:08 AM

#

Could be.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:09 AM

#

I'll admit that the reincarnation wheel makes sense

#

but sense is boring.

#

😄

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 9:09 AM

#

Everyone is allowed to say their thoughts, that's how theorizing works
to think of or suggest ideas about what is possibly true or real : to form or suggest a theory about something.

#

It doesn't have to be logical, it's just to form an Idea what could be possibly real

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:10 AM

#

One theory of mine for example is that blue cubes do not actually change the past, they only change the user's memory of it
Hence Dale's parents are still dead and Laura never prevented her suicide, which is why she is still dead in all the other games
The events of seasons are a way to try to get her to become uncorrupted
I think Seasons happens at the same time as Paradox, inside Laura's mind, while she and Dale are connected to the machine at the bottom of the lake (Dale gets the golden cube there, which he also gets in the true ending of Paradox)

Alas, this is just a theory, and not a fact

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:10 AM

#

That'd be dope.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:10 AM

#

Cool theory

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:11 AM

#

I suppose cubes at the end of the day are memory cubes.

#

.. and they only show up in memories?

#

mhm.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:14 AM

#

I see theorising to be a collab process with everyone sharing & critisising thoughts of each other. Everyone should consider every version that has an explanation & while that should also consider their own versions probably being wrong. As you may notice, I share not only the theories that I support, but also the ones that have proven to me its rights to exist via discussion. Even though I may not share those points of view in my headcanon

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:14 AM

#

so what you're saying is I should be sharing my thoughts so you can critique them, seems a bit opposite to your stance a few minutes ago but okay.

#

either way; what you think theorising is doesn't have any merit here.

#

people are free to share their thoughts and theories here

#

and I highly suggest you don't shoot people down the way you did me, that behaviour doesn't fly.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:15 AM

#

Amd disscus them

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:15 AM

#

I told you that you also should bring up info why you may be wrong & other theories that may support or contradict you

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:16 AM

#

I'll always mention I'm wrong, don't worry.

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:18 AM

#

if the blue cubes actually change the past, and if Laura actually 'uncorrupted' herself in Seasons, then imo it guarantees the existence of multiple timelines.
That's because it makes it clear that the self-consistency principle does not hold in RL universe, given the fact that, as LobsterDonkey said, Laura is still dead in all the other games.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:18 AM

#

god I so hope the multiple timelines theory is true

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:18 AM

#

if the blue cubes actually change the past, and if Laura actually 'uncorrupted' herself in Seasons, then imo it guarantees the existence of multiple timelines.
That's because it makes it clear that the self-consistency principle does not hold in RL universe, given the fact that, as LobsterDonkey said, Laura is still dead in all the other games.
@hollow comet I support multiple timelines in my headcanon

#

otherwise Seasons are either not true or cancel all Dale's adventures

#

A friend of mine sees Seasons as a story of self-acceptance

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:21 AM

#

Regarding your theory of everyone being reborn over and over again, I am not sure that's actually the case.
If so, why did William and Aldous put in so much effort to get William to be reborn again if he would be reborn anyway?
Also Laura being a reborn soul is treated as a very special thing in the RL universe, she is specifically called "THE reborn mind", which wouldn't be if that was the case for everyone
The people who ascended have a "new" immortal life as animal people, but they did not die between their normal life and this one, so they are not "new" people, and keep all their memories.

Anyway, I could be wrong and of course it still is an interesting theory.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:21 AM

#

O ye I personally think sometimes we hammer too much on the samsara wheel

#

and not enough on the lake

#

I do think there's multiple forces of mysticism at play here.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 9:22 AM

#

Could be.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:23 AM

#

New theory: The lake is an eldrich abomination who demands feedings via memory cubes and if we interrupt that it will rise and consume us all.
The last game will be Dale banishing the lake into another dimension and it will be a battle in the style of Pokémon.

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:23 AM

#

I think the only person to be reborn in RL was William

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:23 AM

#

Now listen

#

I am a sucker for eldritch beings

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:23 AM

#

ascension is not the same as reincarnation

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:23 AM

#

you can't do me like that.

#

I do think the lake is probably its own entity, with its own agenda.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

Reverse mermaid is the true big bad.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

and probably forced the eilanders into a ritual.

#

but there's literally 0 evidence to back that up

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

I think the only person to be reborn in RL was William
@hollow comet Jacob is very likely to die

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

so disregard that.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:24 AM

#

well they do say "the lake demands a sacrifice"

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

it's probably their own superstitious rituals

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

this^

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

yeah

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

it's likely whoever setlled around the lake created this cult like idea about the lake

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

Regarding your theory of everyone being reborn over and over again, I am not sure that's actually the case.
If so, why did William and Aldous put in so much effort to get William to be reborn again if he would be reborn anyway?
Also Laura being a reborn soul is treated as a very special thing in the RL universe, she is specifically called "THE reborn mind", which wouldn't be if that was the case for everyone
The people who ascended have a "new" immortal life as animal people, but they did not die between their normal life and this one, so they are not "new" people, and keep all their memories.

Anyway, I could be wrong and of course it still is an interesting theory.
@hollow raptor The thing is that rebirth without help could take time. For CS existence is a long suffering. Mr. Crow would want to end this for his former brother.

The Laura is needed for the elixir because Mr. Owl & Mr. Crow would die soon

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:25 AM

#

or no one is actually alive and the lake is simply a personification of the after life.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:26 AM

#

they all were dead all along

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:26 AM

#

the Lake only needs memories. But it also works if you throw the whole person in

#

which is what people in the olden days, like the Eilanders thought the Lake needed

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

right eventually newer and better technology was discovered for lake like feeding.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

The Lake is powerful enough to give a boost

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

wow my first reddit karma, nice.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

the final boss battle will end with dale just draining the whole thing

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 9:27 AM

#

epic reddit moment, can we sacrifice Jakob?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 10:39 AM

#

@hollow raptor The thing is that rebirth without help could take time. For CS existence is a long suffering. Mr. Crow would want to end this for his former brother.

The Laura is needed for the elixir because Mr. Owl & Mr. Crow would die soon
@azure bay totally agree, we have no evidence of the Corrupted Soul life duration

#

They could be immortal

#

As long as they do something to trigger the transformation

#

Which is "Balance the substance of the past lifes" or "Face your demons"

#

One theory of mine for example is that blue cubes do not actually change the past, they only change the user's memory of it
Hence Dale's parents are still dead and Laura never prevented her suicide, which is why she is still dead in all the other games
The events of seasons are a way to try to get her to become uncorrupted
I think Seasons happens at the same time as Paradox, inside Laura's mind, while she and Dale are connected to the machine at the bottom of the lake (Dale gets the golden cube there, which he also gets in the true ending of Paradox)

Alas, this is just a theory, and not a fact
@hollow raptor I agree with you, but what would this imply about the Blue Cube?

#

I mean, if it doesn't really let you change the past, what is its function? Since Dale can relive his past in Theatre anyway

#

Well, maybe the blue cube let you change the negative experiences or traumas in your memories

#

And theatre events weren't so traumatic

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 10:48 AM

#

There wasn't a blue cube involved in Theatre, because Dale didn't change his memory of that event.
I think the blue cubes can be used for many reasons, but they seem to be used for Dale and Laura to deal with their trauma and "un-corrupting" them so they can reach a higher plane of existance.
Mr Owl did tell Dale to deal with his past after all in birthday.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 10:48 AM

#

Exactly

#

In fact, in the finale of Theatre, we don't see the Black Cube about those events becoming White (differently from Birthday)

#

So we've cleared the function of blue cube for now

#

Now, about this, why would Laura's memories be important?

📎 unknown.png

#

As we see in Cave and the Mill, the Black Cube is about her death (not sure who killed her yet), while the White Cube is about Laura travelling to the Lake with Harvey

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 10:53 AM

#

Laura killed herself or well

#

Lauras corrupt soul killed her

#

Imo

#

Lmao

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 10:53 AM

#

I think CS and Human form can't coexist

#

You are Human OR Corrupted Soul

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 10:53 AM

#

They can if there's two souls in a body ;)

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 10:54 AM

#

Right, but we must consider what happened in Paradox

#

Where Dale apparently killed Laura as a CS

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 10:56 AM

#

Yes that's interesting.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 10:56 AM

#

paradox is, as far as we know, all happening inside dale's mind, in an endless loop, so all endings of paradox are canon
the last one that happened is the golden cube ending, because then he managed to break the cycle

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 10:56 AM

#

My take on it; dale ascending means Laura fies

#

Dies

#

He didn't kill her in the literal sense; but rather because he ascends Laura is cast away and died

#

Dies*

#

Idk

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 10:57 AM

#

But what would that scene mean?

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 10:57 AM

#

maybe dale is facing his dark side?
just an idea

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 10:57 AM

#

It clearly refers to the famous Laura's death scene we've seen in previous games

#

maybe dale is facing his dark side?
just an idea
@hollow raptor By killing Laura?

#

Oh

#

Cool

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 10:58 AM

#

well he did obsess with her murder case for several months before his spiritual journey started

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:00 AM

#

So that would the final step on facing his demons

#

after Birthday

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 11:00 AM

#

that's a possible explanation

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:01 AM

#

And what about the Elixir finale?

#

The one involving Dale's death

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 11:01 AM

#

there he sacrificed himself for the sake of laura, so kinda the opposite side of the corrupted dale killing laura finale

#

paradox probably is looping dale's mind with endless routes and possibilities until the perfect one is discovered
which is why he is finding himself in the same room over and over again until he findes the golden cube

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

So the golden cube finale would preserve both Dale and Laura probably

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

we gotta wait until the next game to find out about that

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:03 AM

#

Since the other finales involved the death of one of them

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

One must die.

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

so far we only know that dale entered the elevator to the hotel
laura is still at the bottom of the lake

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

That's why I think there's two timelines, in one dale dies, in one laura does.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

Paradox also could take place at the Bottom of the Lake

#

Since it's in Dale's mind

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

It does.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

We have no evidence about dates

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 11:05 AM

#

Dale receiving the golden cube in paradox Equals him getting it in cave

#

Imo

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 11:05 AM

#

that's what i think too

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:05 AM

#

And

#

Final theory

#

What could be the Full Elixir? Maybe an Elixir that will let both the 2 people reaching enlightenment? (In a kind of fusion maybe)

#

Without the death of one of them

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 11:07 AM

#

Maybe, I guess we don't really know?

#

Isn't the elixir "the elixir of life and death"

#

Or am I misremembering

hollow raptor Oct 27, 2020, 11:08 AM

#

maybe it doesn't wear off over time

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 11:09 AM

#

maybe it doesn't wear off over time
@hollow raptor right

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

If I understood it correctly, Caroline never finished her research

#

the Vanderboom brothers did manage to create an elixir, but it wasn't as Caroline intended

#

this elixir causes one person to die, and only provides longevity, not immortality, which I believe was the intended purpose

#

in other words it's just a rip-off

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 1:00 PM

#

@hollow comet I thought Caroline finished her research which is why they needed a sacrifice?

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 1:14 PM

#

they would've needed a sacrifice regardless, that was an old tradition, apparently.

#

in one of Cave's minigames, the brothers are seen putting all sorts of ingredients together, which, imo implies that they were trying to recreate a lost recipe, if it even existed in the first place

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

From what I understood:
The method that need a sacrifice exists since Jakob was a child, when they try to sacrifice him the first time. Caroline stopped them and made Jakob leave Paradise. Her research was probably to try to save Jakob, because her recipe uses elements from hers and Jakobs lifes, but none from the others. Then shes lefts her research hidden for Jakob to find and is sacrificed in his place. It doesnt work, so thats why Jakob's dad is holding and "meditating" with the black cube with Caroline's memories, his trying to find the "recipe" for the elixir. But since Jakob is taking back all the cubes and dumping them in the lake, they go for the original plan. Thats why Paradise has two endings. If Jakob manages to find the secret Caroline left for him, the ritual will enlighten him instead of killing. Caroline actually found a way to save Jakob even if he was sacrificed.

#

As why the ritual doesnt work with Caroline but works with Jakob, maybe she wasnt a firstborn and they only discovered thay was needed after they sacrifice her.

#

Also:

📎 images_10.jpeg

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And:

📎 Screenshot_20201027_123532.jpg

#

Rose is basically Caroline with sunken cheeks

#

Any theories about that?

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

oh so that's who the woman in the painting is

#

I honestly never noticed

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 3:36 PM

#

Her cheeks said:
➡️ ⬅️

#

~~I'm sorry for such dumb joke~~
But tbh, yeah, the lady in the painting and Caroline are the same

#

about Rose, not sure, it seems like sorta sorta re-used sprite

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 3:37 PM

#

Woah

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 3:38 PM

#

May> about Rose, not sure, it seems like sorta sorta re-used sprite
@spice frigate maybe, but Rose kinda came from the aether 😆

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 3:38 PM

#

ether?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 3:39 PM

#

Oops sorry

#

Fixed it

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 3:42 PM

#

From what I understood:
The method that need a sacrifice exists since Jakob was a child, when they try to sacrifice him the first time. Caroline stopped them and made Jakob leave Paradise. Her research was probably to try to save Jakob, because her recipe uses elements from hers and Jakobs lifes, but none from the others. Then shes lefts her research hidden for Jakob to find and is sacrificed in his place. It doesnt work, so thats why Jakob's dad is holding and "meditating" with the black cube with Caroline's memories, his trying to find the "recipe" for the elixir. But since Jakob is taking back all the cubes and dumping them in the lake, they go for the original plan. Thats why Paradise has two endings. If Jakob manages to find the secret Caroline left for him, the ritual will enlighten him instead of killing. Caroline actually found a way to save Jakob even if he was sacrificed.
@zenith meteor

Is this a theory of yours or was this really shown in the game?
Its a brilliant theory 👏

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 3:46 PM

#

I think it would be a theory, since its what I understood from the game. But all this I got from Paradise, no other games involved

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That would also explain why she wanted him to finde her memories so much. Because we all know that giving memories to the lake doesnt give peace to the soul

#

ether?
@spice frigate

📎 Screenshot_20201027_125456_com.android.chrome.jpg

spice frigate Oct 27, 2020, 3:55 PM

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yeye ik what Aether is

solid haven Oct 27, 2020, 3:56 PM

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I kind of formed a theory that the reason why the ritual didn't work was that they burned Caroline on a stake, so her memories didn't actually reach the Lake but instead they dispersed over the whole island. It's also why Jakob needed to return them back, to stop the Lake from ‘bleeding’ and to successfully ascend together with the rest of his family.

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 3:56 PM

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RL magic/science/alchemy is weird 😆

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 3:57 PM

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Rose was conceived in a lab TopKek

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 3:59 PM

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Rose was conceived in a lab :TopKek:
@hollow comet yeah, from ||sperm|| Aida's egg, water and god knows what the green thing was (maybe a incomplete elixir), in a bottle. Lemme tell ya, that does not make a baby 😂

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

@astral frost sorry for pinging. Tell me & I stop, but for now I have a little explanation for you.

In The Cave we have a mural dedicated to the Vanderboom brothers. An over-simplified depiction of the secret alchemy level & the whole Roots game. It's shown there that the cubes taken from Laura were still containing William's memories about the elixir formula. We even see the elixir simbol on these cubes in the book.

What is more, I've noticed some thick parallels between Jacob & Dale. Both are connected to a CS which memories about the elixir formula were given to the Lake.

#

I also assume that the cube shown in Caroline's book as a result of mixing the elixir ingridients is golden

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:08 PM

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Next time please avoid tagging and only do so when you're given permission.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 5:30 PM

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I dont understand, are we not allowed to "@" people we're talking to? I did it most times in this server and other servers.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:31 PM

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the rule is simple: do not ping people that are currently offline and or not part of the conversation.

#

Be sure to read over the #✅｜rules if you're not up to date.

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 5:39 PM

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@vague imp just dont ping people if the message is more than 10-15 minutes old, its easier to remember and usually works.

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:40 PM

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getting close to that limit there, Lituana 😉

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but you're right.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:40 PM

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I want to be pinged by @azure bay and by everyone else

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:40 PM

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There we go.

solid haven Oct 27, 2020, 5:40 PM

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@astral frost.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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Yeeeeeees

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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If someone gives you verbal permission; feel free to ping them whenever.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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@Edd

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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otherwise: do not, or I will time you out.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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I don't mind being pinged either but I understand the rules

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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That's clear

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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This isn't a theory, this is just a rule 😉

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 5:41 PM

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Is it looked at as somewhat disrespectful to ping another user? I just want to know

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM

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We just don't want people to get bothered.

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM

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Ahh I see

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM

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some people just really dislike being pinged.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM

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Maybe we need to create a list of those who don't mind being pinged

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM

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getting close to that limit there, Lituana 😉
@covert wyvern ah, ok. I got this idea by helpingnin the help chanels, and there it works because sometimes people have gone back to the game but are still stuck :)

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:42 PM

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It's all about context.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:43 PM

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@azure bay can I ping you also?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:44 PM

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Yep

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 5:44 PM

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Lets bring this conversation to the proper chanell, ok?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:45 PM

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Ok

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 5:45 PM

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if there is more to say about pinging i do suggest moving to #🛖｜the-cabin

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:46 PM

#

@astral frost sorry for pinging. Tell me & I stop, but for now I have a little explanation for you.

In The Cave we have a mural dedicated to the Vanderboom brothers. An over-simplified depiction of the secret alchemy level & the whole Roots game. It's shown there that the cubes taken from Laura were still containing William's memories about the elixir formula. We even see the elixir simbol on these cubes in the book.

What is more, I've noticed some thick parallels between Jacob & Dale. Both are connected to a CS which memories about the elixir formula were given to the Lake.
@azure bay about this

#

I've thought the same

#

It's like you can preserve some of your memories in your new lifes

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Maybe unconsciounsly

#

I would say William was just manipulated by Aldous in order to get the Elixir formula

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William created the elixir, Aldous wasn't as good as him as an alchemist

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:48 PM

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Or just did not find it 1st

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:49 PM

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But in that case Aldous would have remembered the elixir formula, and he wouldn't have extracted Laura's memories

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:54 PM

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I think It's also a matter of luck

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He was working, but was far

#

Far from success

#

I assume they were working independently

#

I've heard a rumor that people are doing alchemy in solitude

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:55 PM

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But they were the Alchemist Brothers

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:56 PM

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I just try to explain why they did not share their experiment results

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:56 PM

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Yes I understand

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 5:57 PM

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Aldous might be less talented but I don't like to think of him in that way

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 5:59 PM

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I personally think Aldous can't do anything and he's only the right hand man of Mr Owl

#

I have some points about that

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:03 PM

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But to be fair, Aldous would have rediscover the formula if he wanted & could. James did it.

Roots have shown us that he can work on his own. I don't see a nessasity of William's rebirth as long as just capturing CS is much easier. They've captures Laura's one

#

In The Cave we also see Owl talking to him as an equal

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:06 PM

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Because they're working together in order to reach the full elixir

#

But what I think is

#

First of all, William was the last creator of the Elixir. Aldous let him drink first just to be sure he wasn't the unlucky one in the process

#

Then Aldous pushed William to involve the Vanderbooms in his rebirth

#

That could look like a sort of help from Aldous to William

#

But in reality Aldous used Laura to extract her memories

#

We still don't know if he could have acted differently (I think a future game about Laura's childhood could clarify this point)

#

Aldous didn't do anything by his own, he always acted as Mr Owl ordered

#

In Mill, Cave, Case 23

#

So, I think Aldous wasn't so interested in saving his brother

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:14 PM

#

What I'm saying, they don't need to save him in the 1st place

#

They could capture a CS as they did in The Cave

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& get the memories needed right away

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:15 PM

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So why they didn't?

#

Maybe they realised later they needed his memories

#

Maybe they didn't knew that the elixir wasn't the full one

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:16 PM

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But even then why to bother themselves with Wiiliam?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:19 PM

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They need Laura AND Dale to make the golden cube

#

So, maybe Willian needed to "rebirth by sacrifice" because if he gone by samsara wheel, his memories would be lost

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And with it the recipe to the elixir

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And they could not risk waiting for the other part they needed (Dale) to appear, because William soul could get be reborn by the natural wheel cycle

#

Yeah, William soul is corrupted, but you only see it in Rose's room, after he sacrificed a bunch of his family

#

What if it wasnt corrupt before he started sacrificing people, and therefore, could be reborn by the samsara cycle?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:25 PM

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Mmmmh

#

I think William became a CS right after his death

#

In Roots you play as William

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:26 PM

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Yeah, but it> I think William became a CS right after his death
@astral frost could be, but also could be not

#

In Roots you play as William
@astral frost yeah, you are william soul, but are you already corrupted?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:27 PM

#

Whats @azure bay was discussing is: why they waited for William to reborn into Laura, if they only needed his memories about the Elixir recipe? Couldn't they extract his memories while he was in CS stage?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:28 PM

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I'm not trying to convice you, just think about the possibilities 🤩

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:28 PM

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Yes yes 😛

#

But in Samsara wheel we only see 6 stages

#

Your theory would contradict this point

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

Whats @azure bay was discussing is: why they waited for William to reborn into Laura, if they only needed his memories about the Elixir recipe? Couldn't they extract his memories while he was in CS stage?
@astral frost dont they extract the memories from the body? As is show in The Mill?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

@astral frost dont they extract the memories from the body? As is show in The Mill?
@zenith meteor yes

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:29 PM

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But in Samsara wheel we only see 6 stages
@astral frost gosh, youre right

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 6:30 PM

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Maybe William had another reason to live

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

I asked a bit ago: what caused Laura to suddenly die/commit suicide? Did they let her mental illness play out until she did kill herself and planned to take her body after that?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

Maybe William had another reason to live
@vague imp well, he need to be alive to get enlightened

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

I asked a bit ago: what caused Laura to suddenly die/commit suicide? Did they let her mental illness play out until she did kill herself and planned to take her body after that?
Mr Crow had been calling her, triggering William's memories of his own death

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

I asked a bit ago: what caused Laura to suddenly die/commit suicide? Did they let her mental illness play out until she did kill herself and planned to take her body after that?
@peak solar nobosy knows for sure, only theories

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:31 PM

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after all, ||Laura is William||

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

@vague imp well, he need to be alive to get enlightened
@zenith meteor It's his goal, not Owl's

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

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@zenith meteor It's his goal, not Owl's
@azure bay hum...

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

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Again, why then?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

Mr Crow had been calling her, triggering William's memories of his own death
@hollow comet maybe not. "Find me in the past" line implies that it was Laura to call herself

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

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Was there a calender date?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

if he reincarnated normally his memories would be lost

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

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I should've pinged

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

When did Mr crow decide to start calling?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:33 PM

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When your memories are extracted, do you get stucked as a CS?

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

Ya know.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

if he reincarnated normally his memories would be lost
@zenith meteor he probably would not. The guests are still corrupted

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Mr Crow had been calling her, triggering William's memories of his own death
@peak solar no definitive date as to when it started, but it was definitely happening in Spring 1964

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

All I know is that the lake is one big memory sucker - it thrives on memories. Why hasn't the live stock on rusty lake not been killed/corrupted and had their memories extracted 😒? Its cos they need fresh human memories which are deep and complex. I'm guessing the more traumatic a memory is the more powerful it is for the lake to consume

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

GUYS GUYS GUYS IT'S STARTING TO BE A MESS. WE NEED TO ORGANISE THE DISCUSSION!!!

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

Ya know.
@peak solar if you only played the Cube Escape collection, you gonne be very confused haha

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

@hollow comet I know. I'm wondering what made Mr crow decide to start calling spring 1964

#

I've played a of the games.

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

When your memories are extracted, do you get stucked as a CS?
@nowherecrafter

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:34 PM

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They had all of her life

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

@covert wyvern can you moderate the discussion? So only 1 person has to speak

#

Just by permitting

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:35 PM

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There's really no need for that.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:35 PM

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Otherwise it's chaotic

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

That's totally fine.

#

it's a big server!

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

That is how this chammel works

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

if you want things organised I suggest taking notes.

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

🙂

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

I'll stop talking and just read

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

Oo I forgot how big the emojis are

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

Then I'll try to

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

tbh I've never seen this channel go down like this. Why do you feel the need to steer the conversation? Just let it flow naturally

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

As long as we quote (with ping or without) i think its fine

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

There are too much things to say & the quantity is rapidly growing while I'm writing the answers

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

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Dont worry.

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

I'll come back later

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

lucky for you discord comes equipped with a handy search function and well

grizzled bluff Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

We don't usually delete messages, so you should always be able to scroll up afterwards
Discussions is what makes this place so much fun!

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

That^

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

There are too much things to say & the quantity is rapidly growing while I'm writing the answers
@azure bay just finish you answer and go back to where you stopped. Works for me...

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

I kind of interrupted you guys

#

Sorry

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

Please talk to your hearts content @peak solar

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

I know. I'm wondering what made Mr crow decide to start calling spring 1964
@peak solar no definitive reason, but Roots makes it clear that Mr Crow was deeply interested in William's rebirth. So I presume that he wanted to learn more? After all, Laura didn't know she was William

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

there's no such thing.

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

I kind of interrupted you guys
@peak solar no,no feel free to get you questions and theories here, please

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

@peak solar no definitive reason, but Roots makes it clear that Mr Crow was deeply interested in William's rebirth. So I presume that he wanted to lear more? After all, Laura didn't know she was William
@hollow comet agree here. The simpliest explanation of Crow's effort is that he really cares

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

@hollow comet so it was coincidence he started calling when he did?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

Hum... Maybe Crow cares and Owl is using him?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:40 PM

#

Owl has no reason to organize such a difficult operation. It's easier to capture CS

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:40 PM

#

@peak solar Laura wasn't aware of her own past life, Mr Crow knew who she was, that was the whole point of Roots- "Bring the branches together"

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

Laura wasn't aware of her own past life, Mr Crow knew who she was, that was the whole point of Roots- "Bring the branches together"
@hollow comet yeah, also, Frank and Samuel got sacrificed at the end even when they already givem sacrifices for the ritual and only Rose (who got in the clock) show up at present. I dont know what to make of this

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

@hollow comet & others! I want to bring your attention to the last phone line in Seasons. "find me in the past"
It even became an achevement recently.
Crow probably would not say that, but the past Laura would. CS have the same voice

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

Laura is born in roots and an adult in seasons. Why did he wait until she was in her 30s to call?

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

Laura is born in roots and an adult in seasons. Why did he wait until she was in her 30s to call?
@peak solar Babies dont have memories. Maybe they need her to have her own memories for the extraction to work?

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

@peak solar personally, if I were Mr Crow, I wouldn't want to let a child know that she was actually my reincarnated brother who died following a drinking party gone wrong

#

PU_TopKEK

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

@zenith meteor we don't really know what happened to Frank & Leo everything is speculations

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Maybe not a child, but that is my original question

#

Theories seem to look at dates, birthdays, etc but not Laura's so much.

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

@zenith meteor about that, I don't think they were sacrificed, but there's absolutely no clue to what happened to them

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

When you extract memories in the mill they are all Lauras, none from William, so maybe she need to accumulate some memories

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

When you extract memories in the mill they are all Lauras, none from William, so maybe she need to accumulate some memories
@zenith meteor The Cave mural has shown us that Laura has William's memories. She probably has no access to them

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

@zenith meteor about that, I don't think they were sacrificed, but there's absolutely no clue to what happened to them
@hollow comet they got stuck in the basement, held by tree roots. I presume they died there

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

@zenith meteor Maybe to determine what would be her and what is Williams.

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

@hollow comet they got stuck in the basement, held by tree roots. I presume they died there
@zenith meteor just speculations

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

@zenith meteor ||Rose didn't die there||

#

Oops

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

@zenith meteor The Cave mural has shown us that Laura has William's memories. She probably has no access to them
@azure bay yeah, thats what i wanted to say, since she has no access to Williams memories, she would need her own for the exctraction to work. Maybe?

#

@zenith meteor ||Rose didn't die there||
@peak solar i know, she raises laura

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

Dunno. I would try to extract memories directly from CS

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

@zenith meteor although I've been talking in-universe, the first time that the reality of Laura being William was established was in Roots, and many CE games were released before that, including Seasons

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

CS are usually losing their cubes

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

Dunno. I would try to extract memories directly from CS
@azure bay but you can only extract from the body not the CS

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

CS are usually losing their cubes
@azure bay same

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

The thing is, why not William body?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

The thing is, why not William body?
@zenith meteor he was reincarnated in CS. Thus the memories moved out the body.

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

I would like to make clear I'm mostly brainstorming 😆

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

Do we ever see Williams body being disposed of?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

Do we ever see Williams body being disposed of?
@peak solar no, but I'm pretty sure James did not see it

peak solar Oct 27, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

@azure bay I'm pretty sure we just leave it laying around.

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

@zenith meteor he was reincarnated in CS. Thus the memories moved out the body.
@azure bay That makes sense. So they would need to give him a new body, from where they could extract memories, hence the rebirth

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

But CS are easy to lose their memories

#

The Lake, Arles, Harvey's Box, Case 23

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

But CS are easy to lose their memories
@azure bay and because you can only extract from bodies

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

But why not to just capture CS until it loses it's cube?

#

A free cube with no energy required

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

But why not to just capture CS until it loses it's cube?
@azure bay maybe you cant choose what memories go into cubes likes this, but can choose when using the machine?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

Bob said that he lost all of them at once

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

It veru clear that not ALL memories goes into a cube

#

Bob said that he lost all of them at once
@azure bay Bob is also still alive

#

And even if he lost all, it doesnt mean all go into cubes

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Death is not necessary to change a form

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Do we even get a cube from Bobs memories?????

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Let me answer all your points

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

Oh, i remenbered

#

He lost them because dale took them

#

In theater

#

Something new ocurred to me, I'll say it after nowherecrafter says his

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

I'm sure that memories can exist only inside the cubes. They can be either devided or held in one, but still in a cube.
The cubes extracted from Laura are devided only by positive & negative & both contained much more than it was shown in The Mill (as we can see in The Cave). Even in The Mill itself the images are picked randomly.
In case 23 we see Bob corrupting, breaking the glass & leaving the cube. In TWD secret scene he sais that he has lost all his memories. Idk where is his white cube

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I have a theory that Bob was sent to the PD by Owl only to give Dale his memories. That would explain why he only had only 1 cube back then

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 7:04 PM

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So, Dale meet Bob in theater, and Bob meets Dale in the club in TWD. What if its the same place and moment but they remember it differently? I mean, the DJ looks a lot like the the guy who plays Owl in theater...

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:05 PM

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TWD is inside Bob's mind

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The images he sees are from memories

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& I'm not sure that Bob & Dale originally meet each other in Theatre

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 7:06 PM

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TWD is inside Bob's mind
@azure bay yeah, but of they really met and that os how bob remembers, his memories are pretty weird

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& I'm not sure that Bob & Dale originally meet each other in Theatre
@azure bay theater is in Dale's memories

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:06 PM

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Yes, but they are changed by Owl

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The plays were different

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 7:07 PM

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What if they met in real life but each one remembers in a way that is not the real one?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:07 PM

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& Bob may or may not remember Dale there as it's a secret scene

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I think they both visited Theatre. But meet only in altered memories/timeline

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For Dale the plays were a lesson about samsara

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But it's stupid to give such a lesson either to everyone or to the one who is not ready to understand it

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in Birthday Owl gave Dale a machine to prevent a massacre. If the present were there originally, Dale could do everything right away with no need to revisit his past birthday long after

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I think the lake crew heavily affects Dale's memories

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The apparatus of TWD has also shown it's functionality to alter Bob's memories

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 7:35 PM

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TWD is real

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 7:36 PM

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god i sure hope it is.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 7:36 PM

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But Bob's dreams are definitely memories and for this reason they could be modified

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@covert wyvern yes it's for sure

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Otherwise the website wouldn't exist

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In RL lore right now TWD is an existing organization

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TWD proves that RL games are set in this world

hollow comet Oct 27, 2020, 7:40 PM

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he dreamt it all TopKek

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 7:41 PM

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I hope not.

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 7:43 PM

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Again guys, the fact that we can access to TWD website like any other possible "patient" proves that Rusty Lake games take place in our world

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At least, what Bob lives during the day is real

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All the ARG proves that this organization is doing something bad with various people's memories all around the world

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And we had to phisically go to those specific places to get infos about the imprisoned patients

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I think they both visited Theatre. But meet only in altered memories/timeline
@azure bay about this: I think the fact that we see Dale and Bob meeting in the Theatre in 2 different memories from 2 different people proves they really met at a certain point. At this point we could discuss if the theatre is a real place, or if they only met to the Police Department

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:54 PM

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I agree that RL Theatre is somehow real. I'm not sure if they have really met each other there on the 1st run. Dale probably revisits the place already altered & Bob may not remember him in some cases

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 7:55 PM

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I do not know if you agree with me, but Bob's memory about the Theatre looks more real than the Dale's one

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Agree

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But the fact his encounter of Dale is secret warns me

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 7:56 PM

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Why would it be a secret?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 7:57 PM

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It would be hidden in case of someone not wanting him to remember that or it not taking place in some continuities

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The 3rd version is that's only an easter egg for easter egg sake, but I don't like it

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:00 PM

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I think we can interpret it in a simpler way: after Laura's death, Dale started suspecting Bob was the murderer, and followed him in various places such as the Theatre. Then Dale arrested Bob to interrogate him, but Bob became a CS and escaped from the Police Department

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Dale has no signs of suspecting Bob. He was interested in the lake only. Otherwise there would be some photos on his mind map or something similar.

The other thing is that The Lady Of The Lake seems to be hyped enough to make them both visit the same time the same place

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:03 PM

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I think the order of events would be more logical if we consider that Dale was just an homicide detective, and became involved in Rusty Lake after

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So he was still searching Laura's murderer, since that was his only goal apart discovering what Rusty Lake was

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:04 PM

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He is involved since the chapter 1

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:04 PM

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He becomes interested in RL when he discovers the archive

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:05 PM

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& if we believe the game, he discovers it right away

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& somehow it takes several months to proceed

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Hmm

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I think the case was interrupted

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:06 PM

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When he was teleported

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:06 PM

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By the lake crew

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:06 PM

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yep ahahaha

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:07 PM

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But why did they wait for so long?

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Oh

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They probably did not

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The Mill seems to be a time anomaly

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:08 PM

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I think the order of events would be more logical if we consider that Dale was just an homicide detective, and became involved in Rusty Lake after
I still think this is the most logic way to see the whole story

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The Mill seems to be a time anomaly
@azure bay ?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:11 PM

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As Mr. Crow we talk to Dale in 1971, take the body from the same time period, then we install that body into machine & Mr. Owl gives the storm while taking Dale from 1972

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I still think this is the most logic way to see the whole story
@astral frost just be aware that your logic neglects our very eyes

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:13 PM

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true ahahaha

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:14 PM

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Yeah we can not always believe what we see, but Case 23 seems pretty much real

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:14 PM

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Mr Owl could have waited until 1972 maybe?

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and then sent the body to the mill

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:16 PM

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But inside the mill we somehow fastforward the months case 23 took

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Crow clearly communicates with Dale

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:16 PM

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Yes

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what I was saying is

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Laura's body could have been taken in 1971 and sent to the Mill in 1972

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even if this is a forcing

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:17 PM

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Or she could be held in the clock for months

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But what's with calling Dale?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:17 PM

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something like this yes

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ah yes

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you're right

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So maybe we must consider the Mill events as speeded up

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we can consider it a "game trick" to cover that whole year

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nothing so important I think

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:20 PM

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But there is also really no evidence against the time compression because magic

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:21 PM

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I think it isn't a time compression

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But only a trick used by the devs

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in order to explain us what happened in 1971/1972

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Dude, we both can be wrong, thus we should consider both versions until we get some extra info.

The last clue I'll give you is the official timeline overview. There is 1 date only & that's 1972

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:23 PM

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Exactly

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wait a moment

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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So the Mill takes place from Fall 1971 to Summer 1972

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:25 PM

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But the only date mentioned on the scheme is 1972

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The one under the Mill I mean

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Under both teleportations

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:25 PM

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I don't remember it

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:25 PM

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A moment plz

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:25 PM

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okk

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:26 PM

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📎 Overview.png

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& notice 1 more thing

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The simultanious events are connected with a straight line

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May be we have the other case here

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Both Laura & Dale were teleported to 1972

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As well as the phone dialog

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:28 PM

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The dialogue happened in 1971

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:28 PM

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Like in Seasons with "find me in the past"

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The dialogue happened in 1971
@astral frost from Dale's point of view

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:29 PM

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I think that's overthinking dude

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:29 PM

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But from Crow's it could be 1972 if we believe the scheme

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I'm bringing up all the evidence

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& mention examples from other games

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Who made that scheme?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Developpers

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It's official

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Are you sure?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:30 PM

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Sure as hell

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:30 PM

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OK MAN

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ahahaha

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:30 PM

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I can even find a link to the updated one on their blog

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:31 PM

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I think that this isn't a point we should theorise on so much

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:31 PM

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But it's as interesting as many others

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:32 PM

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I agree

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:33 PM

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We also have Laura probably talking to other-self in Seasons + the call also perfomed by Dale to another Mr. Crow

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Do you know that you can call the mill in Paradox?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:34 PM

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I didn't know ahahaha

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Which is the dialogue?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:36 PM

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The same voice used by CS & Crow (like his mouth is still sealed):

This is RL
Can you help me?
You cannot be saved
Ok

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Just skip 0

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24355 is the number

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:37 PM

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The same voice used by CS & Crow (like his mouth is still sealed):

This is RL

Can you help me?

You cannot be saved

Ok
@azure bay AHAHHAHA THIS IS HILARIOUS

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You cannot be saved

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ok

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:38 PM

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I could be wrong with 'ok'

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It could be in another dialog

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:38 PM

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still funny dude ahahah

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:38 PM

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But tbh

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This call can be as unreal as the whole Paradox

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It could be just Dale's subconscious projecting his past experience with this number

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:40 PM

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Yes

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or simple easter eggs

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:41 PM

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I tend to perceive all the informative easter eggs as canon

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But still

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The theory of the mill outside the time has several weak evidences. For me it's enough to consider it untill we get some strong evidence against

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I wish you would think the same way

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:45 PM

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I agree man

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:45 PM

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Cause I obliged myself to do the same with some theories I don't accept

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:46 PM

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ahahaha

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I just consider some points as not so fundamental for the plot development

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We must consider devs created the story during the years

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So they didn't knew everything when they created Seasons for example

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I think we'll never explain everything for this reason

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even if we'll get more infos

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:47 PM

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Btw what can you tell about literal calls to change the past in Seasons?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:49 PM

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We agree on the fact that Season is a game about main events of Laura's life

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And that those memories were modified by the time or by the Owl crew

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This let me think that in those memories there are lots of elements coming from different memories/places

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or that Mr Crow/Mr Owl modified them

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 8:50 PM

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So they didn't knew everything when they created Seasons for example
@astral frost thats true. In the original samsara room the man inside de clock was a bald guy, looked nothing like william

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:51 PM

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The original samsara room was outside the universe

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Oficially

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 8:51 PM

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Correct¢

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The rebuild shoehorned it into the timeline lol

zenith meteor Oct 27, 2020, 8:53 PM

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Oficially
@azure bay i guessed it, but didnt know it was set in stone 😆

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:53 PM

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This let me think that in those memories there are lots of elements coming from different memories/places
@astral frost

but the other notes seem to be relevant for the memories she finds herself in. Even the last one
I don't see any other circumstance to make that note appear

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It seems to be in place

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:54 PM

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Other notes?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:54 PM

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About the egg, the song & something horrible to do

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The last documents contain the instructions to travel the memories + the note asking to change the past

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:55 PM

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Yes but what is the point?

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Are you asking me if the calls are real?

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:55 PM

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In your opinion with everything given

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:56 PM

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I think they were game tricks, as devs didn't still develop Mr Crow probably

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But we could consider them as Mr Crow influence on those memories

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:56 PM

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But it also is not to be Mr. Crow

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Mr. Crow would not say "find me in the past"

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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That's clearly an easter egg dude

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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Probably

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It's not

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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No theories about that

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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It's an instruction for the lost players

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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yep

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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It was there since the begining

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 8:57 PM

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nothing important for the theories

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 8:58 PM

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Why do u think so?

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I seem to be extending your mind

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 9:00 PM

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I used to think to every particular thing in the games when I approached Rusty Lake

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But it didn't guide me to any solution

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For example, asking why in Cube Excape The Lake we find those 5 objects and we put them on a tree is a useless point to theorise on

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:01 PM

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Why should it be similar to that voice line?

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& why should your personal experience affect the process of finding the objective truth?

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 9:05 PM

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cause the clearest point about RL games is:

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Devs aren't clearly masters of storytelling, even if they created a fantastic series. They started (and they confirmed it) with games which where "only" escape games, based on a surrealistic scenario which was a mention to Twin Peaks.

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In my opinion, there are some things which are simply less important and shouldn't be considered fundamental for the development of the plot, at least for now

covert wyvern Oct 27, 2020, 9:08 PM

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O for sure

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 9:09 PM

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Something is simply a game trick, not an important element or a metaphor for an event

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I think that because this happened also to other narrative universes from movies and books

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:12 PM

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But returning to Seasons, the machine seems to work all across the time via the very same phone. Plus the winter Laura does not get anything to hear & so on & so on & little weak evidences are accumulating into her changes probably being real

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I can't throw away pieces when they fit into bigger picture

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I understand I may be wrong

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I just want you to accept the same possibility on your behalf

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There is a confirmation bias many people are affected by

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They tend to take the only evidences that fit into their picture

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Ignoring others

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What I'm trying to do is to create several main pictures with a little bit of freedom in details

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To see the possibilities that may support & contradict each other

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 9:17 PM

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Clear

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And you're makin a great work in my opinion

azure bay Oct 27, 2020, 9:17 PM

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& the question of possibility of time travel is fundamental for those pictures

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It also may change the message brought out by the games

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Give a new way of interpretation

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For those who disregard another side

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I think this is crutial for art. To live its own life inside people's mind.

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To change & evolve over time

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I even know examples of authors agreeng on the new interpretaions of their own works that they did not consider while creating them

astral frost Oct 27, 2020, 9:27 PM

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Exactly

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And for this reason I focus only on specific points and not on everything

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It would be too confused

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for me

vague imp Oct 27, 2020, 10:14 PM

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Damn, this went on for long. At this rate we could write a whole book about this :) maybe even 2 novels

vague imp Oct 28, 2020, 10:01 AM

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I have a question about Harvey (I asked it here cos it could possibly turn into a theory or not)

How old is Harvey?

I've seen harvey in almost every game but what baffled me is seeying harvey in Rusty lake paradise which took place in the mid 1700's or so. Then harvey was also present in the other games in a much later time period.

astral frost Oct 28, 2020, 10:04 AM

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No one knows right now