🤔｜theories

[opal sun]

Wait a place to enter the mind... does that mean a place to extract one's memories? Also did the lake cause Laura to kill herself

Wym culture

[rancid slate]

The reason Laura killed herself is revealed in Underground Blossom

She misses her mom. I assume the Lake trip was an attempt to find Rose but after Laura realizes she's not there, Laura loses all hope, gives up and decides to end it all

[rancid slate]

Lake's cult

[opal sun]

I didn't comprehend

Why she did

I thought she killed herself cuz she was going crazy

Like the corrupted dreams drove her to kill herself

[daring cloud]

How many corrupted souls are there?

[azure bay]

depends on when. But I assume there are lots of souls unaccounted for

[azure bay]

Laura's dying words in UB were "Where did she go?"

probably not strictly canon but her mindset of the time for sure

[azure bay]

That's an interesting idea. Never heard it before

it could be Laura's motivation to go there but in the end it was Mr. Owl who needed her there

[gloomy spruce]

Ohk

Yeah ig we need more info to decide that

[gloomy spruce]

Pretty much any1 who dies & gets their memories (I'm pretty sure specifically black cubes) becomes a corrupted soul. So far we've seen the corrupted souls of the bilander family's enlightened forms, Laura's, Albert's i think Mr. Crow as well (correct me if im wrong or if I missed any1)

[gloomy spruce]

She probably wanted to look for her mon to explain her visions to her

[azure bay]

Sometimes just dying is enough, sometimes you can extract all the memories you want and nothing happens

[gloomy spruce]

Oh okay

[azure bay]

"Use the machine wisely, extracting painful memories MAY cause corruption"

[gloomy spruce]

So there aren't specific conditions for one to become a corrupted soul?

[gloomy spruce]

Ah fair

[azure bay]

I think it's a sum of different factors. Depression for instance plays a big part in it

That's probably why BKM offer their memory erasure services only to mentally stable clients

[gloomy spruce]

So extracting the cubes just increases the chances of a corrupted soul

[azure bay]

yeah, but only black ones

[rancid slate]

The corrupted soul in Roots hasn't been as Mr. Crow yet

[gloomy spruce]

Bkm?

[gloomy spruce]

Alr

[gloomy spruce]

Rightt

[azure bay]

Best Kept Memory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa1X-JMBeeY

[gloomy spruce]

Oh that

[gloomy spruce]

Ohk that makes sense

[rancid slate]

It could be Aldous, but either him from the future or he's hiding something we don't know

The corrupted soul appears in Roots before (1885 I think) and after (1896) Hotel (1893) so it would be weird for him to be corrupted twice (not new to the series, tho)

[gloomy spruce]

Fair

[rancid slate]

The CSoul is also somehow connected to Albert's masks

[gloomy spruce]

Oh

I mean one of the masks is Mr. Deer's skull

[azure bay]

supposedly but that was never confirmed

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[gloomy spruce]

Oh

[rancid slate]

Even Mr. Deer has a deerskull in his room before he dies

[gloomy spruce]

Didn't that corrupted soul give it to him or smth? (FYI, I havent played all the games, only the free ones. I watched walk-throughs of the rest of them)

[gloomy spruce]

Oh ic

[rancid slate]

Yes, the deerskull mask is given to Albert

[gloomy spruce]

Yeah

What abt the other masks? Was is made clear where he got those from?

[azure bay]

you could interpret the Masks level as said soul helping Albert get the moon mask too

[rancid slate]

Yeah

However, atleast in Roots, Albert doesn't address the CSoul

[azure bay]

tbf anybody rarely addresses anything in Roots

[rancid slate]

Technically The CSoul helps William and William helps Albert but Roots has a lot of moments that make more sense if it's not William doing all the work

[gloomy spruce]

Yeah wasnt the main thing addressed the reincarnation of William?

[rancid slate]

They all just trynna be non-chalant

[gloomy spruce]

Isnt it just the CSoul helping Albert?

Do the masks alter Albert's behaviour at all or is he just weird?

[azure bay]

I mean it's as if the characters notice nothing

[gloomy spruce]

Frfr

[gloomy spruce]

Yeahh

[rancid slate]

Both

[gloomy spruce]

Lol okay

[rancid slate]

Id say the masks help him express himself more

Some also seem to have powers

[gloomy spruce]

But why is he like that? I never understood it. Just cuz his siblings made fun of him?

[rancid slate]

Rain and snow

[gloomy spruce]

Yeahh

[azure bay]

By gameplay we have to help all the characters do their thing but canon-wise who knows? Sometimes William just watching makes much more sanse

[gloomy spruce]

Yeah

I always get confused on who we play as in each game

Understanding that in a few games helped understand it a lot lol

[azure bay]

officially it's William's soul. But many little things we do can be attributed to the characters onscreen

[gloomy spruce]

That makes sense

[rancid slate]

At the moment, basically yes

[gloomy spruce]

Oh

Ig events happened amongst them outside of what we see in the game

[rancid slate]

I can also see him feeling that way if no one in his family actually liked/loved him

He seems to stop wearing masks after Rose is born

[gloomy spruce]

Yeah that makes sense i mean it's literally his own kid

& well from what we've seen she's helping him

[opal sun]

Who's corrupted soul is Dale talking to on the phone

[opal sun]

Why did he need her there

I'm confused at thr timeline between roots and hotel because some events in hotel happen in roots

[opal sun]

Moon mask?

[opal sun]

How would you feel if you were harassed by your siblings got a beehive dropped on your head then your face was ugly and scarred for the rest lf your life? That's why he was obsessed with wearing masks and he one day snapped during the family band killing everyone then my favorite part was when he tortured and mutilated his parents with voo doo dolls. They did nothing to stand up for him they let him suffer

Before I replay all the games can someone tell me each game and who we play as

[rancid slate]

In The Mill? It's Mr. Crow. If he was corrupted or not in the moment, we don't know. But atleast he was not in The Chapel. I dont have the source, but apparently Aldous knows how to do different voices, explaining why he sounds corrupted

[rancid slate]

1870 Roots - We see the guests in the Hotel, possibly their first time checking the place?
1891 Roots - Emma starts searching for her lost son, Frank
1893 Hotel - The guests stay in the place and are killed. Their memories are extracted and they become corrupted
1894 Bday - The corrupted souls escape from the Hotel and attack Harvey. He dies and is revived into a regular parrot by Mr. Owl. When this happens, a white beam is seen and Harvey flies away
1894 Roots - Harvey flies to the room Emma was. She gives a letter to him, so he could deliver to Frank in the future
1930 Roots - Harvey gives this letter to Frank

In Roots, the Level 1891 "The Search" basically takes place during 1891-1894, so that's why the same event happens in both games

[rancid slate]

If you played Roots, you may remember that Albert wears many different masks. One of them is the Moon mask (he only wears it once)

[rancid slate]

*he uses voodoo in Ida, the woman he loves, and Samuel, his brother and Ida's husband

Mary and James were Albert's parents

[autumn ridge]

He is the moon that Laura see in the telescope

[rancid slate]

The Lake - Laura
Seasons - Laura
Arles - Van Gogh
Harvey's Box - Harvey
Case 23 - Dale
The Mill - Aldous
Hotel - Harvey
Birthday - Dale
Theatre - Dale
Roots - *William
The Cave - Aldous
Paradise - Jakob
Paradox - Dale
The White Door - Robert and Sarah
Samsara Room - William
The Past Within - Rose
Underground Blossom - Harvey

Servant of the Lake - Young Bird

[opal sun]

That does NOT look like a moon

[covert wyvern]

Be nice to Albert smh

(no but like fair enough)

[opal sun]

Right I forgot that part

[opal sun]

I'm not being mean I'm making fun of the mask. He looks badass he doesn't even need the mask

[gloomy spruce]

right fair

[opal sun]

Does the white door extract the good memories or the bad

Or both

[opal sun]

Is it called rusty lake cuz the lake is corrupted

Also I don't remember who said this ab rusty lake mocking religion but I've done some thinking and as a Christian my opinion is that it's rather inspired by Christianity due to the story being similar

Rather than mocking it cuz they would have put something to like joke about religion like adding something disrespectful about the lord

Like that one guy who got kicked out of a church for wearing a Jesus has rizzin t shirt

[opal sun]

Someone said Mr crow does alot of voices. How do we knkw that

And throughout paradise we see different symbols. I do t get it

[opal sun]

Oh and the dogs significance. Where did he come from is he the family dog? Sorry if I'm sending too many messages I don't mean to spam I'm just rewatfhing playthroughs and I have alot of questions

In 1984 they escape the hotel. How if they were killed and served on a platter?

Aldous appears as a crow when did he get to hotel I thought he lived from the elixer and why did they turn into certain animals? Why did Caroline give jakob masks

[opal sun]

Why does Laura appear as a corrupted soul isn't she nkt dead yet

[opal sun]

I forget why rose cuts her fi ger

How did Harvey come to be

Who is Mr bat and Mr frog and why does the lake turn red at night

[gloomy spruce]

Okay that's fair, maybe not MOCKING religion, but showing the consequences of taking rituals too far & how conflict that rises from it leads to suffering

[opal sun]

True

[gloomy spruce]

I'm pretty sure the dog is just... there. He drank the elixir & became immortal & his owner Samuel (i think, I get the names mixed up) dies

[gloomy spruce]

No she died

[opal sun]

Already?

[opal sun]

Yes it's Samuel. The vanderboom tree is the hardest to understand

They get turned into cubes how did they escape

[gloomy spruce]

Yeahh it is 😅

[opal sun]

How does Dale not drown in an underwater clearly caged elevator. How does it cut from Harvey to dale

[gloomy spruce]

I'm pretty sure sum1 listed the order here

[gloomy spruce]

Yeah here

[opal sun]

Ty

I didn't know they were in order

[rancid slate]

I think it's because the lake looks red sometimes

[rancid slate]

I also mentioned that I dont have the source of that information so take that with a grain of salt

[rancid slate]

What symbols?

[rancid slate]

It was James's dog Samuel is his son

[rancid slate]

Corrupted souls don't need physical bodies

[rancid slate]

The Dog is important in Cave: Since it drank the Elixir, his poop contains remainings of the Elixir and both Aldous and Jakob use it to keep being alive

[rancid slate]

Aldous drinks the Elixir in 1859 and becomes Mr. Owl. Hotel takes place in 1893, he works for Mr. Owl

We don't know if the animals have a meaning yet. But the "hybrids" are basically "asuras" or "demi-gods", their main characteristic is living longer

Caroline doesn't give Jakob mask. Instead, he gets them by himself. They don't much meaning other than showing the player which animals the family will turn into later

[rancid slate]

Her blood was one of the sacrifices needed by William

[rancid slate]

Unknown how he became an Asura, but he becomes a regular parrot in 1894, after being killed by the guests' souls and revived by Mr. Owl

[rancid slate]

Both questions are unknown

We only know that Bat and Toad were human too
Source

[rancid slate]

A person can become corrupted at any time of their life, without being dead:

•Bob gets corrupted during Case 23 and The White Door;
•Many times, a CSoul appears with Laura. That is herself, she's depressed;
•Dale gets corrupted in Paradox

[rancid slate]

They broke the glass We don't know if there's another deeper reason

Also, I dont think they have turned into cubes

[rancid slate]

I cant give a good explanation, but inside the Lake is not exactly water and at the same time it is

We only see fishes and Jakob/Owl behaving inside the Lake as if it was water

All other characters walk there normally

I wouldn't look much into it

Maybe only the ground part isnt water

But that doesnt explain the elevator unless it's like a dead zone

[rancid slate]

.

[rancid slate]

At the end of Hotel, Harvey looks inside the White Cube

He sees a moment of 1972, when Dale arrives to the Hotel

Since you haven't played The Past Within yet, I will tell that it says that time doesn't exist inside the Lake, so both past and future merge there

That's how they're able to see a moment from the future

(Theory)

[gloomy spruce]

Right mb

[gloomy spruce]

Could they have potentially be attempting to assume a form of devaloka (gods)?

[rancid slate]

Maybe

Caroline had a weird Samsara wheel in her book, but no attention is drawn to Deva

[rancid slate]

The Hotel guests dont seem to seek a higher realm

Only Mr. Deer seems to have an interest in Hotel, its waters and what's beneath it

[opal sun]

The hidden achievements there are symbols

[rancid slate]

Oh, they dont have a meaning in the game

They are the usual achievements we search in order to get a reward, like in most of their games

If you know the order of all of them, you can unlock the Owl Mask in Paradise. Which kinda teased the next game (Paradox) and The Day of the Lake, as well as giving you symbols to use in Paradox for another secret

[opal sun]

Wait Dale gets corrupted? Also if Laura killed herself why did it show the shadow doing it

[rancid slate]

Cuz the CSoul represents her depression

[opal sun]

At the end Mr owl tells Harvey to look in the glasses and the cubes showed the corrupted souls of them

[rancid slate]

The reason she died, kind of

[opal sun]

Wym nkt water

[rancid slate]

Yes, after they escape, the CSouls wander through Rusty Lake, including the bottom of it

[rancid slate]

The absence of water

[opal sun]

Then what is the lake made of

[rancid slate]

And yes, in Paradox, Dale must accept/face his corrupted soul. Which could represent his fear of the past (Birthday), present and Future, as thats what Chapter 2 is about

[rancid slate]

There's water on the upper areas of the Lake

[opal sun]

Chap 2?

[rancid slate]

Of Paradox

[rancid slate]

There aren't shown inside the cubes, tho

[opal sun]

Wheres chapter 2??

[opal sun]

? The shadow of their animald

[azure bay]

there are 2 doors in main menu

the other one is paywalled

[opal sun]

So rose why did she leave Laura? And I forget who took her was it mr crow? Why did he take her? Where did she go?

[azure bay]

It was Albert's ghost. It needed her to resurrect it. In exchange Rose prepared enlightenment for Laura

[opal sun]

Can u dumb that fown

Down*

Also is there a rp channel or does anyone wanna rp

Idk if that's weird

[azure bay]

Albert was dead, he wanted to live again. Rose could help. Laura was a dead weight. Rose became a scientist and combined lake magic with technology. It took her 40 years. When Albert was finally alive, she became a blooming tree in the forest at the lake's bottom.

When Laura's ghost found her she helped her live again too and probably more

[opal sun]

Why did she revive albert

[azure bay]

probably she loved him, probably his knowledge could help Laura

we don't know exactly

[opal sun]

Thought she loved the man from white door

[rancid slate]

We only know that Albert kinda asked her to revive him, so she did

[rancid slate]

That's Laura

Rose revived Albert

[azure bay]

Albert is Rose's father, the nurse in The White Door was Sarah

[opal sun]

Oh wait my brain isn't brainkng

I thought we were talking ab Laura idk why

[opal sun]

😂

[azure bay]

ah, double confusion

[opal sun]

So is there a rp channel I wanna visit the lake myself

Also if the lake was real would u visit

[rancid slate]

No, we dont have one

[opal sun]

So does anyone wanna lake rp

[azure bay]

I don't wanna die

[rancid slate]

Maybe that's something you could ask in #🩸｜general-chat or #🛖｜the-cabin

[opal sun]

Oh ok

[opal sun]

Does everyone die? I just wanna feed my bad memories to the lake

[azure bay]

go to Best Kept Memory and they'll do the rest

it's safer that way

[opal sun]

I mean who knows the lake might make more bad memories from me and feed them to the lake and corrupt me

[opal sun]

What's that

[azure bay]

They work with memories and secretly work for Owl to feed the lake

[opal sun]

Where do we find that

[azure bay]

find what?

[opal sun]

Bkp

Bkm*

Also owl is the good guy right

[azure bay]

what do you mean by find it?

[opal sun]

Is it a YouTube channel a discord server a game

[azure bay]

It was an ARG

[opal sun]

Cuz u said this

[azure bay]

there's a fake website

[opal sun]

What's that

[opal sun]

What is it valled

[azure bay]

Alternate Reality Game

[opal sun]

Where can I download it

[azure bay]

some IRL quest as if we live in RL universe

it's online

you need to look for clues on the website

in the fake ads on Rusty Lake YT channel

and eventually in the secret level of Underground Blossom

[opal sun]

I'm 😕

Confused*

Ooo is ot an irl side quest

[azure bay]

basically

normally you do that when it's on

together with the community

I call it the hive mind

it's very tedious solving it alone

even when ur smart

so the best way to do it when it's ended is by following the guides

@rancid slate I don't remember where to get one, do you?

[rancid slate]

There's this one
https://youtu.be/I20md_y7Xfw

Or the pinned messages in the #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg channel

[opal sun]

I don't even know how to go to the website or find people to do it with. Also they should make an irl rusty lake themed escape room. I did one similar once. It looked like the same room as paradox. It was s detective investigating a murder and the murderer kept leaving encrypted messages. It was so much fun

[azure bay]

it's over, the hive mind is off, the best you can do now if by following the guides

[rancid slate]

They have made a escape room before but it was for a limited time

I think their office kinda is an escape toom too, if you visit the place

[opal sun]

Really

[gloomy spruce]

Oh

What abt William & Aldous?

[rancid slate]

They know about the realms, apparently

[gloomy spruce]

Okay

Were they tryna achieve a form of Devaloka?

[covert wyvern]

The Escape Room we made for TwitchCon was transported to our office where it still lives on yes!!

[azure bay]

is it just a bunch of puzzles?

[covert wyvern]

Is that not most escape rooms!

[rancid slate]

Doesnt seem like it
Apparently, only Mr. Owl plans for Dale to achieve Deva

[covert wyvern]

Yeah it's a pretty standard escape room experience with some Rusty Lake flavour:)

[azure bay]

I'm just a crazy person who hopes for more lore every time

[gloomy spruce]

To be the next ruler of the lake?

[rancid slate]

And a Deva, yes

[gloomy spruce]

Alr makes sense

[opal sun]

Do u think the lake can tlak

[rancid slate]

Would be cool

[opal sun]

So how u think they voiced the corrupted souls u think the VAs played their voice backwards

[storm dock]

I need some help can anybody help me?

[patent lion]

For the first picture: The answer for it is the same for the safe in seasons. But you don't need to open it to finishing the game.
For the second picture: You can get a shell by fishing using a thing in the cabinet.

If you need more help, you can use #1425769608996192336

This channel is for theorise related to rusty lake

[azure bay]

They voiced it themselves

Recorded imitation of reversed lines

And reversed it

Again

[rancid slate]

Could Sarah White last name have some kind of relevance for her to be working in The White Door? Like, as if she was a daughter of the company's owner (Jakob White..?)

Random thought

[azure bay]

There was an idea that it's a fake name

Samsara White Door

[opal sun]

That's what I said

[daring cloud]

Is the lake sentient? Like it is its own entity or is it that the ruler of the lake controls it?

[azure bay]

Who controls who here...

either way the lake seems like a child at best

[daring cloud]

True, perhaps the embodiment of Laura as we know she “blossoms” at the end of Underground Blossom?

[azure bay]

there's a big gap in owr knowledge concerning many relationships with the lake

we have no idea what it means to be the lady of the lake

what it means for the lake to belong to smb

[daring cloud]

the timelines are also confusing

[azure bay]

I can help figuring them out

What part is confusing?

[daring cloud]

The time between the hotel and (i can’t remember her name) sending a letter on harvey’s neck seems really confusing, Harvey was just flying around with that note for years?

How come we don’t see it in other games?

[azure bay]

There are simply no games that feature Harve during that time period

But I deem it possible that Harvey simply time traveled

[daring cloud]

Another thing that is bugging me is Harvey’s origin, We seem him in Paradise and The White Door so he is over 100 years old. (I think)

[azure bay]

I think we can agree that Harvey isn't an ordinary bird

[daring cloud]

Then again is anything ordinary in Rusty Lake?

[azure bay]

Bob

[daring cloud]

His soul gets corrupted.

[azure bay]

Nothing special. Samsara just works

[daring cloud]

I’ll need to figure out samsara since I only see it as a “lesson” for william on the wheel of life

[azure bay]

Originally it goes as follows

People die, souls don't. They reincarnate as 1 of 6 realms

Humans, animals are straightforward

Corrupted souls are ghosts that tempirarily can't reincarnate

[daring cloud]

Ohhhh

[azure bay]

There's also a hell, where souls supposedly suffer

It's believed to be the lake forest

[daring cloud]

I didn’t know about that one-

[azure bay]

There are also devas and asuras

Gods and demons/demigods respectively

Furries are asuras

Dale will become the 1st god we see onscreen

That's the basics

Corrupted souls are not only ghosts, they are also a negative part of people

That may take over either before or after death

[daring cloud]

Huh, Okay…

[opal sun]

In tpw the room is shaking. Why

[rancid slate]

The past room is a cube inside the future cubical device, therefore it can be affected by outside forces

It shakes because the future turns on some music

[opal sun]

What happens to you when your soul blossoms in the lake ND are those trees the bottom of the lake

[opal sun]

Ty lol

[rancid slate]

We don't fully know because it's a new concept

But it's a good thing

[opal sun]

What do we think it means

[opal sun]

Who was with Leonard when he was legless

And didn't he die

[rancid slate]

Some kind of enlightenment

[rancid slate]

I believe he got into a coma after getting hurt from the war

[opal sun]

Ah sgit and the ptsd

Why his eyes red

And who was with Leonard during his coma

[rancid slate]

When his body arrives to the house, it seems like William is the one to help him

The only other people that could have been in the house were Albert and Rose

William probably only helped him to get his foot as a sacrifice. And after that, Albert and/or Rose may have helped later on

It's also possible they received Leonard in the house and were just waiting for him to get better. Meanwhile, William took advantage of the fact that they weren't in the room and got the sacrifice

[autumn ridge]

Wow

I not even thought about it

[opal sun]

William was dead... in the samsara room...

Or was this on a different timeline

Technically the timeline is fake cuz time doesn't exist at the lake

[rancid slate]

William dies and becomes a corrupted soul

Death is not the end of someone's life in Rusty Lake

Corrupted souls can interact and appear physically even if they are dead or their body no longer exists

[opal sun]

bruh like in tpw

eughh the sound of alberts soulll

[opal sun]

Who do we play as in mr rabbits magic show

[azure bay]

self-insert

[rancid slate]

Did Parrot Harvey also had to drink the Elixir just like Aldous and Jakob?

Or does the Elixir works slower in animals? Like the Dog

The Dog drank the Elixir 24 years before Harvey got turned into a parrot

[gloomy spruce]

wasnt Harvey originally a parrot?

[azure bay]

for 1, we don't really know

for 2, not sure there can be "originally" when you constantly reincarnate as something new

[gloomy spruce]

yeah fair

but didnt the dog drink the elixir a lot later?

[rancid slate]

The Dog drinks it in 1870

[rancid slate]

Would be funny if Harvey just kept dying and being reborn as the same parrot or asura every time instead of being able to switch forms

[azure bay]

it probably would but that's headcanon territory

[rancid slate]

I like the idea of the "being able to switch forms" thing but it conflicts with 1894 and other logic stuff like Harvey's Box

[rancid slate]

For now, I will believe in this one

But if the Dog runs out of Elixir, then Harvey could as well

[azure bay]

I say it doesn't work on anumals fully

[rancid slate]

That is, if Harvey consumed liquid Elixir

Mmm but Jakob also does need to drink even with his Elixir being in an "unknown" form

[azure bay]

the dog is too stupid for enlightenment so it gets the basic package.
Aldous was a sentient human he was enlightened as an asura.
Dale's getting a consiousness boost to be enlightened as a deva.

We have no idea when and how Harvey was enlightened but even if it was via elixir Harvey may be human-level smart

so that might be enough for an asura

[rancid slate]

He drank the pure Elixir in 20000 BC

He drank all the Elixir

Thats why there's no more

Greedy Harvey

Greedy Harvey theory

[rancid slate]

I was gonna say they could have gotten Harvey instead of the Dog to get the Elixir in Cave

Maybe his body doesnt contain it anymore after 1894

Or they couldnt find him after The Mill

Another option is, of course, they just wanted the last/most recent one

[steel oracle]

As I see Harvey was human and turned into a parrot asura the same way Mr Crow did. Harvey was probably Mr Parrot and got the name Harvey after Laura name him. I don’t recall the name Harvey being mentioned in Hotel.
I would say Harvey is turned into parrot to prevent being killed after the escape of the souls, and made back into human later to take care of Laura. It’s not clear if Harvey is human at all when taking care of her, maybe he is still a parrot all the time taking care of her magically or via Mr Owl and Crow help.

[azure bay]

Harvey was called Harvey long before Laura was even born. If he became an asura the way Mr. Crow did then where did he get his elixir and who was sacrificed for him?

Harvey was straight killed by the souls and resurrected by Mr. Owl as an ordinary parrot. Here's a screenshot

[azure bay]

and we've never seen him as a human

always as a parrot with Laura

an orphanage or a foster family were probably involved in her every-day life

either way that would be irrelevant UB

[honest trout]

Oh. Wow i didn't know that

[opal sun]

When did the dog become humanoid

[opal sun]

Harvey must have been a person before he was turned into a bird. Like u said people can reincarnate. Or maybe he was a bird and one of them turned him humanoid

[azure bay]

It didn't

[opal sun]

How does harvey have elixir

[opal sun]

😂

What's a deva

[azure bay]

We know nothing about Harvey's origin. Not who he was, nor how he got enlightenment. He's so weird I wouldn't be surprized if he broke every rule established in existing games

[azure bay]

Probably a cooler asura. Roughly means a god except gods in Buddhism aren't omnipotent nor immortal

[opal sun]

What if the dog has unlimited enchanted poop snd they can keep making the drink. But ewww who would drink dog poop. I'd rather be a corrupted soul than drink dog poop for enlightenment. The only thing that would be enlightened is my senses and not in a good way

[azure bay]

That doesn't seem to make sense. Gradually pooping out elixir has to be THE reason why Mr. Crow and Mr. Pwl have almost lost their powers.

The dog is just delaying the inevitable

[opal sun]

Wait when was Mr crow turned into a crow? Also I thought the souls took revenge and turned him into a parrot

[opal sun]

They lost their power? When

[azure bay]

In Hotel at best but that could be Harvey's opium trip

[azure bay]

The Cave

"I need my drink"

"Help, give me the extract"

[opal sun]

Was this in roots or hotel

[azure bay]

Birthday

[opal sun]

[opal sun]

Question. Is cave the game where after the cave they go underwater? And is cave the vanderboom cave

[azure bay]

The Cave is a separate location. Its surrounding rocks can be seen through the window

[opal sun]

So which cave

Is it not either eilander or vanderboom cave

[azure bay]

Eilanders were on the island, Vanderbooms have no czve, the have a cellar

[opal sun]

So just a random cave

[azure bay]

Depends on your definition of random

[opal sun]

Idk if I'm allowed to curse here I was gonna put a curse word for flare

[opal sun]

On a random location in rusty lake

And why is the dog there when the dog was in the vanderboom cellsr

[azure bay]

I mean it could be in use by Mr. Owl for long

[opal sun]

It's on a mountain but what mountain was that

[azure bay]

The Vanderbooms were out of the picture. Rose and Laura long moved out, Frank and Leonard are as good as dead if not dead for real

[azure bay]

You can see the exact location in the intro and find it on the general shot of the landscape

[opal sun]

Also does Arles have any significance whatsoever to the lore

I saw the intro

But I wanna know where on the map that is

[azure bay]

If you consider an IRL example to explain the magic significant

[opal sun]

Idk what u mean

[azure bay]

You can see it on the map in Case 23

The VDB house is to the south

[azure bay]

Van Gogh was a real person we know a lot about. We see what he's experiencing in this universe. So we can take that inowledge and project it on other characters. For example, Laura

They are basically saying "Laura is like van Gogh"

[opal sun]

Did he really cut off his ear

What is 4 and 8

Did Mr crow orchestrate Laura's fate too since she's a vanderboom

[rancid slate]

This is the april fools park map, so it's not canon

4 is a reference to the cubes and the bottom of the Lake (big white cube)
8 is the Chapel

[opal sun]

Yk how Laura was dead when looking at Albert? We look through the moon in seasons

We're we already corrupted

[opal sun]

What game was the chapel

[rancid slate]

Yes, Seasons is Laura seeing her memories after she already died

[rancid slate]

But no, Albert is not in Seasons

[opal sun]

Why doesn't she see him

Also we don't see Laura on the tree

Was she the lazy vanderboom

[rancid slate]

The 3rd chapter of Case 23 takes place in The Chapel

[opal sun]

Last*

Oh righttt

[rancid slate]

She appears on both the last level of Roots and also at the Cave family tree

She just does not have a specific level named "Laura" in Roots

[opal sun]

Can u ss

Also is Laura reliving her dreams in seasons

Seasons is so confusing can someone explain it and Harvey died in summer??

Why did Laura kill harvey

[rancid slate]

Here's my belief:

Basically, after Laura dies (probably after The Day of the Lake), by 1981, she relives her memories and balances them (the juices represent the substances)
She accepts her past and "cures" her depression, eliminating her corrupted soul and living again

In Underground Blossom, she calls it another life without sorrow

[opal sun]

Live as who kr what

Snd what ab harvey

[rancid slate]

Personally I dont think she killed Harvey "in real life"

Simply because Fall 1971 looks like Laura has already died + Harvey appears later in The Mill, not dead

So, for me, Harvey is only killed in Seasons 1981 by corrupted Laura, but that doesnt matter much since she also prevents his death

[daring cloud]

It’s confirmed! Alexandra is Williams sister.

[rancid slate]

It was confirmed last year, but yeah she is

[opal sun]

?

Also how come Laura saw herself in the moon and not albert

[rancid slate]

We look to the moon and see Laura

A corrupted soul appears

And stabs her

1. Albert did not existed in 2015
2. The only major characters were Laura and Harvey
3. The end of Seasons reveals the corrupted soul is Laura
4. The CSoul stabbing Laura represents Laura wanting to kill herself

Meanwhile, in Roots
We look at the moon, using a telescope, and see a corrupted soul also using a telescope

The CSoul in the moon of Roots is William

[daring cloud]

oh

[opal sun]

Also who do we play as in the anniversary game? Or are we in the game

[opal sun]

How did he see Laura then

[opal sun]

What's William doing in Laura's house

[rancid slate]

There is no Albert neither William in Seasons

The only characters are Laura and Harvey

[rancid slate]

Yes, the player in MRMS is you, a self-insert

[rancid slate]

Still interesting tho that they called her "little sister"

[steel oracle]

I may not be clear, I meant a Parrot Asura, like Mr Crow is a Crow Asura. Mr Crow is human and looks like trapped in his human form for a while, until we free him by releasing his mouth.
Does Harvey is calls by name in Hotel?

[rancid slate]

Only if you give Mr. Owl the cigars, I think

[gloomy spruce]

I mean ig since Harvey's a parrot

[gloomy spruce]

God

[gloomy spruce]

I mean Rose gave Frank dog piss & nothing happened to him

[rancid slate]

Maybe becayse Frank was not an asura, so nothing happens to him

Or also because the Elixir still needs to have 2 people consuming in order to work

[opal sun]

But Laura looks into the moon and Albert looks into the moon and sees Laura's corrupted soul so why does in roots albert sees Laura

[rancid slate]

I believe you are forgetting some crucial details
Who is the player in Seasons? And who is the player in Roots?

[opal sun]

Don't we play as multiple I. Roots

Laura is seasons

[rancid slate]

The player's perspective is always from William

Some actions may be from other characters, but over all the player is William

[opal sun]

Dumbit down

[rancid slate]

In Seasons, we play as Laura and see the corrupted soul of Laura in the moon

In Roots, we play as William and see the corrupted soul of William in the moon

The same happens in The White Door

There is a secret achievement where you can look at yourself at the moon. The player is Bob and we see Bob in the moon

What all these three have in common is that we play as corrupted souls during these moments

Roots and The White Door reference the fact we see ourselves in the moon during Seasons, not the fact we see Laura in the moon

[opal sun]

Is the rabbit in Mr rabbjts magic show still david

And why is he white in the massacre

[rancid slate]

Yes

[rancid slate]

Human
Asura
Corrupted soul

The white one is the corrupted version

[opal sun]

Dumb down roots

And what really is an asura like a demigod

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[rancid slate]

Roots starts when James' uncle, William, dies
The main objective of the game is collecting sacrifices
Later on, you discover you play as the corrupted soul of William, he needs these sacrifices to be reborn
Through out the game, we see a corrupted soul many times:
•When you look at the moon,
•When you look at the mirrors,
•When you click on William's portrait.

The corrupted soul is you. You are playing as William

Every death, every love, everything you see in Roots is from the perspective of William

[opal sun]

I thought it was unconfirmed his uncle

[rancid slate]

It is said in the very beggining

[opal sun]

In seasons we technically play as William cuz William is laura

Bro switched teams

[rancid slate]

Technically yes, but there is no trait of William in Laura

Laura is pretty much her own person

So we call Laura Laura, not William

• William does not even appear in Underground Blossom, which is a very important game about Laura

The only thing left of him are his memories, deep inside Laura's mind. So deep she does not remember it, atleast for now

[rancid slate]

I like William VS Laura theories but UB kinda killed them

[gloomy spruce]

i mean, Aldous wasnt either

he was a human who drank it

Frank was human too

[rancid slate]

I meant Frank drank a not-extracted Elixir form

[gloomy spruce]

yeah okay fair

[gloomy spruce]

I'm pretty sure the only time Albert sees Laura is in ub

but also ub is basically a summary of Laura's life so we just dont know if that's exactly how it played out irl

[opal sun]

When did frank drink it

Also in the intro of cave who are we

Aldous leads us to the cave and we save william

Also I'm assuming the cave is those mountains back there

What happened to Harvey at the end

[opal sun]

So did Laura come back to life

[azure bay]

technically twice

ot thrice if you count William's reincarnation

or innumerable times if you count all reincarnations

[opal sun]

Who do we play as in the cave cuz aldous is letting us in and he saves william

[azure bay]

in the intro we see him from 3rd person perspective but whn gameplay starts we take him over

so it's Aldous in The Cave

as seen in the mirror and as Mr. Owl addresses to him

[rancid slate]

And the bald man is Mr. Owl, not William (William has hair and beard)

[opal sun]

So what's the deal with theatre

[opal sun]

Why does he say help like he can't breathe and is is William that goes into the water since he's in a suit? And what were they doing underwater again

What does Harvey do in the box

[azure bay]

William was long dead. It was Aldous.

Idk either Owl had some water in his lungs but more likely there was a lower pressure in the suit.

Mr. Owl needed his suit to pacify corrupted souls via their cubes in the lake. So Dale's passage was safe

Mr. Crow went there to collect Laura's cubes he flushed down the lake in The Mill

[azure bay]

survives, chases away a corrupted soul that could kill Laura during The Lake

[opal sun]

Why did the mill flush the cubes

[azure bay]

"the lake needs not only the right water level but also fresh memories"

[opal sun]

?

[azure bay]

Owl's letter to Crow

[opal sun]

Also If William is dead why is he barely breathing in the suit

[azure bay]

it's not William

it's Mr. Owl in his human form

William is Laura now

[rancid slate]

Bald man is Mr. Owl

[opal sun]

William is Mr owl

Wait

Noo

It's jakob

I'm so stupid

[rancid slate]

(Theory)
The Lake wants memories from people
Thats one of the reasons the Hotel crew extract memories from guests and from Laura
If they dont feed The Lake, something bad could happen (Maybe like the Plagues)

[opal sun]

I thought Mr owl had a vendetta against his family

[rancid slate]

He could still have it

Could be one of the reasons

But the main reason, in the Hotel game, is still to get the White cube showing the future

[azure bay]

the absolutely main reason was the prophecy cube with Dale

[opal sun]

Can someone explain theater

[azure bay]

what about it?

[opal sun]

It's confusing

The plays

[azure bay]

the plays depict samsara

6 sections, 6 plays

6 forms you can reincarnate in

[rancid slate]

And the last play is about "Deva" or "god/divine", symbolized by the Questionmark (?)

In the (?) portrait, you can see Dale's reflection

Basically showing us that Dale will become this "Deva"

[opal sun]

If Laura died at the lake how come we see her dead body at the house

[azure bay]

depends on what you mean by "Laura died at the lake". What game?

[opal sun]

Seasons

In paradox we see her die at the lake

Seasons her body is in the house

[azure bay]

In Seasons we see a flashback where she goes corrupted but that doesn't mean it that she died or that was even true. And Paradox is Dale's dream, let's call it that

[opal sun]

Oh

[azure bay]

In The Cave there's Laura's memory where she kills herself at her place

the wallpaper from Seasons

[opal sun]

So did she go back to her house to kill herself

[azure bay]

2 years passed since the trip

assuming it didn't last long

[opal sun]

?

Also how did Jakob end up suffocating in a diver suit also hrs dead how is he suffocating

Sis this take place before William died

[rancid slate]

I dont know how a scuba suit works but I guess he ran out of air

[rancid slate]

What exactly are you asking that takes place before his death?

[rancid slate]

Nowhere meant that the trip to the Lake happens in 1969, then yes Laura goes back to her house and kills herself on 1971. But it's not right after she comes back: She's at her house atleast by Summer, but she only kills herself on Fall/October

[autumn ridge]

I barely can se something in the background

How you noticed this, lol

[azure bay]

in the game the reflection is rather visible

it's even blinking

[rancid slate]

Yeah, I may have messed up a bit while editing

[opal sun]

Better yet how he even end up in a scuba suit in the 1st place? And isn't he technically dead as Mr owl

[opal sun]

Idk I was high lol

[opal sun]

But summer is when she killed herself according to seasons

[rancid slate]

No, Seasons shows her death on Fall

The photo even says the exact date: 12 october 1971

[rancid slate]

Mr. Owl is pretty much alive, he is wearing a scuba suit so he can breathe underwater and protect Dale from the corrupted souls

[opal sun]

Oh I see it now

Bad memory

[azure bay]

<@&358613639554400258>

[grim flower]

Thank you!

[honest rain]

I have a theory that Dale will become a deva because he either 1. did a ritual with the Lake 2. drank from the Lake itself 3. Mr Owl did a T-pose and lake magic happened as a result?

[azure bay]

I'd appreciate you explaining your reasoning

[honest rain]

Well, Dale is going up to the Hotel (via hotel elevator) in a future game, so I think that maybe some spooky ritual might happen at the Hotel in the near future- which will then naturally lead to Dale becoming a deva for reasons unknown (and becoming deer-headed)

[azure bay]

we expect another Day of the Lake + Dale sharing the elixir with Laura

But there must be something Jakob didn't have back in Paradise

I think it's Dale's elevator journey

it gave him "the higher state of consciousness"

basically he had a cool mentor unlike Jakob

[azure bay]

<@&358613639554400258>

[grim flower]

Thank you!

[open grove]

<@&358613639554400258> Scam thingy

[grim flower]

They keep coming back... thanks!

[open grove]

No problem!

[opal sun]

So do people that bloom in the lake have a conscious or are they just stuck seeing and being st thr bottom of the lake

[azure bay]

Rose has consciousness but the is the only person in blossom we know. Probably Laura too and she seems conscious too

[opal sun]

So they just stuck looking st the bottom of the lake

[azure bay]

Probably

Probably not, there are cubes all over the place after all

Probably doesn't matter because nirvana

Probably the devs didn't think that far 🤣

[opal sun]

What's nirvans

[azure bay]

That's how the original state of enlightenement is called in India

In RL anything is called enlightenment

But the tree seems the closest to the OG

Doesn't automatically mean it's the best but still

Basically stopping reincarnations, existing as a mind free from flesh, free from emotions, free from suffering

[opal sun]

Who us dale talking to in case 23

And what does he mean your place is already taken

[opal sun]

How did Dale end up in a chapel

[opal sun]

Who's this

And wait I just realized something funny. Vincent van gogh really cut off his ear. He had a Psychotic breakdown over another painter and severed his ear and wrapped jt and gave it to a woman named Gabriella. Arles is a city in france

[azure bay]

Historically speaking, he probably didn't cut off his entire ear

[opal sun]

He did

I'm reading it rn

[azure bay]

I've heard it was only an earlobe

[opal sun]

I think it was

Either way he cut his ear

[azure bay]

I 've just checked, there's a tonne of contradictory sources

[azure bay]

Can I just give you a video or 2 about Case 23?

[opal sun]

I'm kinda tired of watching videos

Get ai to make a summary lol

I just wanna know who that shadow is

Oh and why did van gogh get corrupted

[azure bay]

That's borderline insulting lol

[opal sun]

How

Cuz it's ai

[azure bay]

AI sucks at theories

It repeats what's said in the internet and it's not always accurate

Even just written, not said. It doesn't parce videos

[azure bay]

Mr. Crow in The Mill

[opal sun]

Ah

[opal sun]

True

So who's this

[azure bay]

Because Laura had already won that contest

[opal sun]

Elaborate

[azure bay]

Laura already called, said "fate" and had an unforgettable trip to Rusty Lake

[azure bay]

An early design of Mr. Deer

[opal sun]

Who is Mr deer? Is it nicolas

And why is he attacking dale

[azure bay]

At least he was in his past life

[azure bay]

Because he's corrupted, vengeful and feral

[opal sun]

I don't get it. If Laura took dales place... but isn't he the chosen one for the day of the lake

Also I heard that paradox is not canon

[azure bay]

It's not that Laura took Dale's place. It's that Dale went for a place in the mental health retreat already taken by Laura

[opal sun]

?

[rancid slate]

He means "place" as in "room", I believe

[azure bay]

Laura already won the contest. What was Dake hoping for when saying the same word?

[azure bay]

It IS canon. It's not REAL

There's a difference

[rancid slate]

Yeah, the contest was probably specifically for that "place". If it is "already taken", Dale could confirm that Laura went to The Lake

[opal sun]

So what is paradox

[rancid slate]

Basically a test by Mr. Owl to Dale to prepare him to become his successor

It takes place inside Dale's mind

[opal sun]

Why did Harvey want to leave his box

[patent lion]

Maybe Harvey saw the corrupted soul and tried to escape not to catch by corrupted soul

[opal sun]

I thought he was protecting laura

[patent lion]

That could be true. There isn't right or wrong on theories unless it's officially comfirmed

[azure bay]

He didn't, the soul came only in the end

[patent lion]

I forgot the box closed except the end

But what if he saw the soul through the hole during the box is moving?

[rancid slate]

Maybe, I think we see the box open when we go through the fruit

[patent lion]

Oh, yes. I should replay rl games

[opal sun]

Can someone resumarize theatrical and like dumb kt down

[opal sun]

What did aldous do at the mill

And who was the old lady

[rancid slate]

His wife

Most likely just a random person

[opal sun]

Does he live in the mill

[rancid slate]

Maybe

Seems like it

[rancid slate]

He extracted Laura's memories

[opal sun]

Cuz living room

Why did he extract them again

[rancid slate]

At the time, the Lake needed it

But later, in Cave, it is shown her cubes are important because they contain the memories of William's Elixir

[opal sun]

Why is he extracting her teeth lol

[rancid slate]

Just a puzzle, the golden tooth is used to make a golden key

[opal sun]

Wait Why is Harvey there

[rancid slate]

I guess Harvey wanted to be there

[opal sun]

And if crow is talking to Dale Why he sound like a corrupt soul

[rancid slate]

I believe I have already answered that

[rancid slate]

Here

[opal sun]

Why is Laura's body in the clock

[rancid slate]

A theory says that the Clock is like a teleportation device and it was used to bring Laura from her house

[opal sun]

Ooo

And in the TV Dale put cubes in?

Was that in case 23

[opal sun]

Why does he do different voices

[rancid slate]

Possibly so people dont recognize him

[opal sun]

Apparently crows irl can do different voices

[rancid slate]

I think it was a test by Mr. Owl, as he mentions is in his letter in The Mill

[opal sun]

Ohh it is a teleportation

It says so in the letter

In thw mill we dlsee Dale with s light and Mr owl

Is this after paradox

Cuz I saw him at the lakd

[rancid slate]

Paradox is after The Mill

[rancid slate]

That's Mr. Owl bringing Dale to the Chapel

[opal sun]

Why is his wife dead

Why is strangling harvey

Who*

[rancid slate]

That's corrupted Laura

After extracting a Black cube, Laura gets corrupted

[opal sun]

And is he talking to Laura or is Laura talking to him

[rancid slate]

Corrupted souls tend to be agressive, so she kills the cow and the wife

[opal sun]

Dayum

[rancid slate]

Harvey was next

[opal sun]

Nooo

Did Harvey live

[rancid slate]

It's Crow talking to her

[rancid slate]

Yes, Mr. Crow manages to convince Laura to go away and not hurt Harvey

[opal sun]

I'm rewatxhjng a video rn lol

Why does hotel take place after mill

[rancid slate]

It was released after The Mill, but doesnt take place after it

[opal sun]

And can u summarize theater

[rancid slate]

Maybe

[opal sun]

Like all ik is he is reliving an investigation

And is this elevator going into the lake? Won't u drown? I heard the lake isn't real water

How isn't he corrupted

Wait i see flickering corruption

[rancid slate]

Yeah, that is when the memory takes place, 1971, after Laura is declared dead. We see a man that is sad about Laura, that's Bob. The same guy that appears in Case 23, as a "suspect"

But that's really what's Theatre is about

[rancid slate]

The Elevator is going up, to the surface

[opal sun]

Why does the bartender tell Dale to give the man a drink

[opal sun]

He was the suspect?

I don't understand that part why did he hang

[opal sun]

Still is underwater why is he at the bottom of the lake

[rancid slate]

Theatre is about the Samsara Wheel, Mr. Owl modifies the memory so each stage play represents one realm of the Wheel

We have the corrupted souls, hell (red forest), animals, human, asura (demi-gods) and Deva (god)

Mr. Owl is preparing Dale to become a Deva, what we presume is the highest realm of the Wheel

[rancid slate]

Gameplay reasons, just making sure the player knows who to give the drinks to

[opal sun]

The bartender looks familiar

[rancid slate]

It's Aldous

[opal sun]

Knew it

Was almost a bartender or is it just the memory

[rancid slate]

He was there for real, not a modification

(Atleast in 1971, he was)

[opal sun]

Can someone translate the 6 plays and their meankng

[rancid slate]

They dont really have a meaning besides represetinh each realm

[rancid slate]

Here are all of them

[opal sun]

And who was in that piano

[rancid slate]

The Lady in Blue/Black represents the Corrupted Souls

The symbols represent Hell

The animals are animals

Laura represents human

Aldous represents asuras, as Mr. Crow

And the last is Dale himself

[rancid slate]

A hand

[opal sun]

Dumb that down a bit I'm overwhelmed

[rancid slate]

The hand are a mystery, we dont know what they really mean

[opal sun]

Duh but who's hand

[rancid slate]

Noone's, probably

[opal sun]

Oh wait

[rancid slate]

Maybe one day we will know, but each hand is usually different

[opal sun]

I get the samsara wheem

Why is the lake red

I noticed that in hotel Lake gets red at night

[rancid slate]

The red forest represents Hell or Suffering

[opal sun]

Ohhh it makes sense

They ab to die

Why does Dale keep appearing corrupted

[rancid slate]

We dont know yet

[opal sun]

What is the fish and the parrot

[rancid slate]

They are animals

They represent the animal realm

[opal sun]

Also why does Harvey lay eggs

Don't only females lay eggs

[rancid slate]

Apparently not in Rusty Lake

Some believe Harvey becomes a female when just a regular parrot

A counter-argument is that Harvey is referred with masculine pronouns in Harvey's Box game description

I dont really mind

[opal sun]

Why is mr owl dressed like Dale lmak

[rancid slate]

That is the last play

Deva

[opal sun]

Who

[rancid slate]

Mr. Owl wants Dale to become a Deva, so that's why he is wearing Dale's mask

[opal sun]

Dang the pic won't load

[rancid slate]

To represent Dale becoming a Deva

[opal sun]

Extracting caused a corrupted soul

While dressed as dald

[rancid slate]

The corrupted soul that appears when you leave with the Elevator?

[opal sun]

Who was that again

[rancid slate]

Bob

[opal sun]

Oh yeahhh

Whitebdoor

Is it curable

[rancid slate]

Surely

Since Seasons, we have seen that it's possible to uncorrupt

[opal sun]

Who's fhis

[rancid slate]

Bob

You can see him getting corrupted if you check the bathroom after the 5th stage play

[opal sun]

Did roots happen before cave

Wait that was a dumb question

Did paradox happen after cave

[rancid slate]

Paradox happens during Cave

[opal sun]

How do we know

And the dog was in the cellar what's he doing in the cave

[rancid slate]

The biggest hint is the secret ending in Chapter 2

Dale gets the Golden Cube and gives to Mr. Bat in the elevator

Similar to Cave's ending, where we give the Golden Cube to Dale while he's still asleep

And before that, we even see both Dale and Laura connected to machines

[opal sun]

Explain

[rancid slate]

After Roots, Aldous probably gets the Dog

[opal sun]

What secret ending

In paradox

[rancid slate]

Paradox has 4 endings

2 in each chapter

You get two for playing in the normal way

[opal sun]

How do I get all 4

[rancid slate]

And the other two you get by watching the film and following the hints the game gives on where to look at

The film is full of secrets, which you can use to unlock achievements and therefore the secret endings

[opal sun]

Isn't there a walk through

[rancid slate]

There are

[rancid slate]

It shows Dale coming down and going to the big cube

We only see Dale going down in the Elevator of Case 23's ending. So this takes place after Case 23

Dale goes down and Mr. Owl in the scuba suit protects him from being attacked by the souls. You can only solve the puzzle if Dale is not "hurt" by the CSouls

After that, Dale gets inside the big cube, which is where we see him at Cave's ending

[opal sun]

Whay are Dave's memories doing in the lake

[opal sun]

You guys said the bar guys name is bob

It's Robert hill

Anyway temm me if I'm wrong

Past is never dead means time doesn't exist in the lake

Everything u touch u change meaning the memories

And there will be blood is a reference to Laura

And why is there a cassette named harveys song

Wait I just spent an unnecessary amount of time tryna find out what relation an uncles brother is. Is aldous James father and William his uncle

[opal sun]

Harvey has to have laid at least 8 eggs in the series

And how does paradox take place during cave when both owl and crow are busy underwater

Also nobody knows why Dale is corrupted but my theory is since he's stuck reliving his memories most of them are bad so the bad memories can corrupt the soul or all of this is in his mind so he's not really corrupted. I meant the elevators as well

Uh what?

[azure bay]

Bob is short for Robert. Look for no logic, it's English

[opal sun]

How is Bob short for Robert wouldn't it be rob

[azure bay]

Both are. As I said, look for no logic

[azure bay]

Where's "there"? Paradox?

[opal sun]

Yes

[azure bay]

It's a dream based on some real things

It's Laura's cassette

[azure bay]

There's no good answer for who James's father is as of yet.

I don't like the idea of Aldous being the father because he acts like just another distant uncle

On paper he's effectively as dead for the human world as William

And James has no idea how and when it happened

Also apparently Aldous was the owner of the house, not William

At least originally

My bet always was on some unknown 3rd brother

And even when he ended up a sister names Alexandra I find it more preferable than Aldous

Even thought you have to extrapolate James having no father in his life

[azure bay]

I think it takes place within a single minute while Mr. Crow is making the golden cube

[opal sun]

Explain

[azure bay]

As I said, Paradox is something of a dream

[opal sun]

And that minigame is this just a plan or is this happening rn

I feel like this is what they planning to do

Get the cubes protect dale

[azure bay]

It's Case 23 aftermath. It happened months before The Cave, if time is even applicable

[opal sun]

Time doesn't exist to technically no

Can u dumb it down a bit my comprehensive skills suck

[azure bay]

It exists on the surface

[opal sun]

So I was told the water is fake and u can't drown

[azure bay]

Summer 1972 Dale finds an elevator in the cabin and goes into the lake

[azure bay]

Right after the mural happens

[opal sun]

What mural again

[azure bay]

The picture

Dale goes into the big white cube

Winter 1972 The Cave happens, Mr. Crow finds Dale inside that cube

For everybody expect probably Dale and Owl a few months passed between Case 23 and The Cave

[azure bay]

He's not stuck. He was stuck for a while in Paradox but it's not his memory.

The memories of Bday and Theatre were stepping stones for him stopping being miserable and learning about samsara respectively. All so he's a worthy successor to Mr. Owl

[opal sun]

I meant those stepping stones might be corrupting him

[azure bay]

He was corrupted after Paradox

[opal sun]

I don't see anyone else having theories as to why he's corrupted I wanna hear em

[opal sun]

We still don't know why

[azure bay]

One of Paradox purposes was to face his corrupted soul

Whatever that's needed for

Or he took some of corruption from Laura

It could also be tied to one of the secret Paradox endings but I find it less likely

If anything, Birthday is something you'd do to cleanse corruption

Turning black cubes white sometimes does that

[opal sun]

Paradox has to be the hardest part of the lore

What do u think is the reason Dale is corrupted

Paradox is also the coolest cuz u get hints from their short film so we are literally in a paradox

[azure bay]

I'm not sure why and what for but that's part of Owl's plan and it's probably depicted by Dale becoming corrupted in the Paradox dream

[opal sun]

Why does he become the shadow that kills laura

[azure bay]

That's basically a paradox, THE namesake of the game

[azure bay]

Because Mr. Owl says to face the CS and Mr. Crow gives him a knife

[opal sun]

So did cave cappen after paradox I haven't played cave in a while I just watched the secret ending for paradox. And is there a secret ending in cave

[rancid slate]

The main events of Cave happen at the same time as Paradox, in a way or another

[rancid slate]

And no, there's no secret ending in Cave

[rancid slate]

Could be a metaphor for facing his trauma and deal with his past, present and future? I don't really know

It kinda also happens to Bob in TWD Day 5-6, but I dont know what was the point of that either. Maybe becoming corrupted is considered facing your csoul? And that somehow helps your to relief the stress or something..?

Or maybe just prepare him to when it happens for real in Birthday

I think I see Dale flickering corruption as just him being unstable for having to do with all this Rusty Lake stuff "out of nowhere"

[rotund shale]

Hi yall. Question for you about order of events for Dale. My best understanding is that after Case 23, the order for Dale goes: he descends to the bottom of the Lake, experiences CE: Paradox (at the same time as the end of the Cave), then ascends upwards and goes through both Birthday and Theater, on his way to reach the hotel. Is that the generally agreed upon order.

Also I have been thinking about both the figure of The Lady of the Lake and the Lady in Blue. The Lady in Blue i think only gets mentioned in Ms. Pheasant's room and I can't really tie it to anyone but her, since Laura doesn't really wear blue, or that distinctive ribbon hat. The Lady of the Lake however... Could be Caroline (somewhat retroactively) since her hat matches the painting in Case 23. Could be some sorta mythological figure from even before the Eilanders. Maybe a Deva and/or Ruler of the Lake? Of course could also refer just to Laura

[rancid slate]

I agree with the order

[rancid slate]

About the Lady of the Lake, I think it's more of a role instead of a character, but we dont know much its importancy or if there's some kind of hierarchy

The Theatre Lady might just be playing as one, not actually having the real role

I think "The Lady in Blue" might just refer to the Hat, as the Theatre Lady does not wear it and Ms. Pheasant doesn't have to change her blue dress in order to portray Owl and Crow

Maybe the blue dress is just common/famous in Theaters or with actresses

Laura may become the next (real) Lady of the Lake

[rotund shale]

That makes sense to me. Im trying to decide if the blue hat in Theater ties Laura to Ms. Pheasant...

Because I think the fetus and the heart probably tie to Laura and William...

but also it could be just showing the process of balancing and not so much tied to anyone in specific

[azure bay]

can you please explain your reasoning?

[rotund shale]

1. The way the Lady of the Lake "dies" in that scene includes a throat slit and turning into a corrupted soul. 2. I tie the heart to William and the fetus to Laura as relating to both the sacrifices of Roots and the journey in Samsara room. William's sacrifice is his heart and the end result of Roots is a baby. And in Samsara Room, he uses the heart to return to his original form and the final form he takes is the baby, once again Laura. But I'm not certain I'm right reading into it in that way. Partially cuz I'm not sure if one is supposed to balance things from each past life, or from one's latest past life... I'm not sure how often we see that. I know Mr. Rabbit is trying to balance the substances of his past lives, and it gets mentioned often, but I'm not sure if we've seen anyone actually balance the substances of their past lives

[rancid slate]

I think that's the case considering Birthday is the first to bring up "substances of past lives", then Theatre shows the Samsara Wheel with the other realms and Roots explores a bit more the process of the substances (Which I believe are the sacrifices we collect) and its consequences (enlightenment)

[rotund shale]

Okay, that makes some sense. Enlightenment sure seems to refer to a lot of different things. Becoming an asura/animal head, becoming Laura. Maybe enlightenment in RL terms is simply moving up or along the wheel...

[rancid slate]

Yes

[azure bay]

if it were simply it wouldn't be valuable. I'd say it's "controlled" to some extent

what are your other points?

[rotund shale]

That's about it I think? I mean I connect Laura somewhat archetypically with the Lady of the Lake, especially with "The lake belongs to me" and the idea that she is one part of the pair with Dale where one dies and one is enlightened.

[azure bay]

I see, you placed 1 as if there's more to come, sorry

[rotund shale]

Oh I had 1 and 2

[rancid slate]

List of characters and if they have balanced their substances:

•Laura (Seasons, maybe [The Juices could be Susbtances])
•Mr. Rabbit (Unknown, possible)
•William
•Caroline (Her cubes seem to be Substances, which are used to create the Elixir but atleast Caroline doesnt seem to have been positively affected by it)
•Bob (The White Door, each one of the 7 objects are considered Substances)

[rotund shale]

True! Thank you for that. Mr. Rabbit is a big mystery to me still. He wanted the gun, which Ms. Pheasant posed with, and is a substance of his past lives. In Birthday, Dale changes the past to some degree in some way (possibly just within his memory but probably more literally too to some extent? At least for Mr. Rabbit.) Then after being shot by the crow-like grandpa, Mr. Rabbit collapses by the tree, and Dale somehow purifies him in a way, and he becomes a tree, much like Rose does. Apparently Mr. Rabbit did not participate in the breakout of the rest of the hotel corrupted souls, but we dont know what he did instead or like... why he seems so much more substantial than other corrupted souls. And I have big questions about why and how the Vandermeers had that gun, in a box labeled with the word preta... Probably something we learn from future stuff

[azure bay]

Rabbit doesn't become a tree, he's absorbed into an existing one. And Dale likely has nothing to do with that

on thematical level I'd say that the tree represents Dale's soul getting free from the trauma since it's his cube floating above it but on the lore and worldbuilding level I'm not sure

[rancid slate]

Maybe Mr. Owl sells the guests' belongings after they die, lol

Profit

[rotund shale]

Okay that makes sense. But also like Rose merged into a tree that blossomed too

[rancid slate]

She merged with herself and became the Tree

[azure bay]

a new tree

[rancid slate]

Atleast in The Past Within

[azure bay]

and in Birthday the tree didn't as much blossom as simply grew leaves

[ripe totem]

This is more of Dutch Name related question than Rusty Lake
Why is it Van der not Van de?

[rotund shale]

Im talking about in Underground Blossom but its about the same

[rancid slate]

Yeah, I know

But you could say UB is after TPW

Or, all the talking with Roses isnt actually real but part of UB's metaphorical behavior

[azure bay]

never seen Dutch names with van de

not that I've seen many

[rancid slate]

All variations are right, I guess

[azure bay]

only those are right that are in use. And here we need either examples or a better expert

like Damy

[rancid slate]

I have searched before on the wikipedia and there are other names like

van der X
van den X
VanderX
Vander X
Vanderx

[azure bay]

he meant more that what we see in TPW has a chance to be just another rough depiction of things that doesn't necessarity translate to other games

but I trust TPW considerably moe than UB

[rotund shale]

fair enough, TPW feels far more literal and UB far more metaphorical. But I still feel like theres some connection to the scene of Mr. Rabbit and the tree and Rose(s) and the tree. At least on a metaphorical or archetypal level

[azure bay]

Yeah, I think specifically of these 2. Only that it's not the Rabbit who wins here but clearly Dale

[rotund shale]

True. But the Rabbit fades away, doesn't he? So at least he escapes his current hungry ghost existence so he wins too

[azure bay]

that doesn't make sense. Why would he? It's so freaking hard

[rancid slate]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-rabbit-cube-escape-birthday-flash-beam-cube-escape-rusty-lake-gif-12945360073676825843

[rotund shale]

and with a white beam, like when Laura purifies

[azure bay]

again, that's not how samsara or corruption work. If anything, I'd say Rabbit was reverted back to his feral stage of corruption

lost his corporeal body and so on

[rotund shale]

Fair enough. We definitely don't know enough to be sure. I also see it as Dale purging or purifying his demons. Just in this case the demon is another being

[rancid slate]

Hopefully we'll get more answers in the future

[rancid slate]

Mr. Rabbit being enlightened can be very interesting but maybe also hard to implement

[azure bay]

I think he deserves a personal redemption story

Bday aftermath

[rancid slate]

The easiest ways to not "mess" with the other events after 1939 could be to either make him a "good guy with no bad intentions" or make him prevent his death in 1893 with an alternate timeline like in Seasons

1939-1969 are quite unexplored in the timeline, with the 40s and 50s barely starting to be touched in UB

[azure bay]

we're promised 1966

[rancid slate]

Yeah

Which is also.. from Birthday..

That's Mr. Rabbit's watch, trust

"Kill my evil clone from the past, Dale"
-Good Rabbit 2.0, 1966

[rancid slate]

Not only what happens after, but also what happened before (how he arrived/if he is a time traveller from the future or not)

Could he time travel by entering a cube?

[azure bay]

probably

I'd prefer him to

[rancid slate]

Because if so, that would mean there was a timeline where Dale's parents arent killed cuz Mr. Rabbit was not even part of the "original event"

[azure bay]

probably

[rancid slate]

I think I prefer him to be "linear"

And the guests in the Lake still being from "whenever" and not really from a future year (like 1972)

[rotund shale]

Other question. So I've heard the devs confirmed Mr. Owl is an asura, not a deva. However, Paradise calls him the Chosen One and puts the Owl and the Deer as separate stages on the wheel. one must be asura and one deva. Maybe the deer is actually deva because Dale? But Mr. Owl is still considered separate in a way, special, the chosen one, even tho hes still a deva, right? So does the chosen one more refer to being the ruler of the Lake or what?

[opal sun]

Ohhh that makes sense! So that's where the elevator was going. I should have known cuz Mr bat. Nobody still answered me hkw can u breath underwater in the lake

Also does William know he is gonna die

[azure bay]

we have no idea but I do think Caroline's deva implied VanderDeer

[opal sun]

And like why past lives and not past life we don't see their multiple lives

[azure bay]

I take it as another dimension leaking through into the water

[opal sun]

And can I get more detail on what a samsara wheel is

[azure bay]

the lower you get the easier you breathe

[opal sun]

Woah cool

[azure bay]

read wikipedia

[opal sun]

Makes no sense

[opal sun]

Wikipedia is almost never accurate to what I heard

[azure bay]

water is part of your deminsion, forest is foreign

[azure bay]

it's enough to get the idea through. Even priests and theologians will argue about particularities

[opal sun]

The word Peta and he's an animal lmao. Also why did he want pheasants gun is she like his sister wife or sum

[azure bay]

he's an asura-looking preta*

[opal sun]

If laura balanced her substances whybus she still corrupted

[azure bay]

when do you think she did that?

[opal sun]

In seasons

I'm bad with the timeline

[azure bay]

and when do Seasons take place?

the latest date is winter 1981

the furthest Owl's/Dale's story reached is 1972

[opal sun]

Is is Canon or real? Or metaphorical

[opal sun]

I just said I'm bad with the timeline lol

And how did David escape

The hotel

[rancid slate]

We were specifically talking about the ending of UB and TPW, at the Lake

Both games are canon

TPW is more real than UB, but UB' s ending isn't that far from what we would consider reality

What I meant was that we see the Tree being formed in TPW, while the Tree is already there in UB

[rancid slate]

We don't see it, but personally I believe he escaped the same way as the others and we just dont see him in the cutscene

[azure bay]

the devs said he didn't join then in their escape

could go free either before or after

[rancid slate]

Weird decision

Of them

[azure bay]

depends on their plans

if that's the reason why Mr. Rabbit is behind the window or in Bday, I think it's fine

[rancid slate]

Maybe

[opal sun]

I meant is it metaphorical

[azure bay]

UB is metaphorical in many ways

there's no metro

[opal sun]

I don't zee that cutscene