🤔｜theories

[rancid slate]

I think he meant Rose sacrificed her blossom

[azure bay]

or something represented by that. As for her kid, she was THE beneficiary of that sacrifice

[glass finch]

Oh ok, thanks

[honest rain]

So if Laura is made 'out of others', as seen in Roots, does she have the quality of each?

[rancid slate]

I don't think so but we do know that she has William's memories (and that's why she is important in Cave+) but that's mostly because they share the same soul while the sacrifices were just bodyparts

[azure bay]

:c

Bots :c

[azure bay]

I've got a personal ping, I see no message. Did you the mods delete it? What was it?

[rancid slate]

Someone replied to your message

We know about the photos, but was the map and notes also made by Laura?

[azure bay]

My assumption, it was the fruits of Dale's research

So was his "I need your memory"

[rancid slate]

Including the notes?

[azure bay]

I call it a tale

[rancid slate]

An under

Less important question: If a wing is essentially an arm, does that mean Mr. Crow has 4 arms?

[rancid slate]

I noticed a small detail in the SotL demo and I'd like to share
So SPOILERS for ~all contents of the demo!

Since the start, ||all characters treat us as if we are a new person in Rusty Lake.
•Coachman: Welcome to Rusty Lake.
•Maid: You must be the new servant.
•Aldous: Ah, a new face.
Not just a newcomer, but also a new servant, implying there was a previous one or there is more than one||

In the house, ||we find many notes. The first one is our contract and the next two are little guides to our task of feeding Aldous. However, there is one more: The secret note. *Last call for those reading who haven't found the secret yet!||

Comparing them all, ||it's noticeable that only the contract has a different writing, which could mean all the other 3 were writen by the same person||

And, while ||we could see the two as "the Maid wrote these", it wouldnt make sense for the third one||

But, ||whoever wrote the two, doesnt seem to know that "Something is missing", as Aldous says||

Apparently, ||Aldous not only hides his berries (lol) but also doesnt tell other people (explaining why the berries arent mentioned in the recipe). And it's quite funny he asks us if we are trustworthy before we are able to get the key||

Oh no, I just noticed ||they do all use the same writing font||. Theory is over 💔💔

I was going for a "||these notes were all written by the old servant which made a mistake and is now in the basement||"

But looking at it, ||we can see the contract is in yellow paper while the secret note is in a bit grayish-yellow so maybe these two notes are in fact old? Maybe we are not in 1839 and that year was from whebn the contract was written?|| Might be looking too much into it

[rancid slate]

(Puzzle minor spoilers?)
Aren't ||tin cups|| often related to people who beg for money? Could the Vanderboom be poor? Or considering they are infamous and have a big house, maybe a "fall from grace" case? We even ||find a coin inside the tin cups||, so I think atleast the material was intentional

[weak patrol]

THERE IS A SECRET?? Gotta replay the demo again now

[mighty breach]

I think we could still assume that the contract and the notes were written by different people. At least the secret note, it has to be written by the previous servant OR someone of interest

as it mentions "your help will be needed in the future"... Maybe it talks about our work as servant, but maybe it's something more unusual...

[rancid slate]

It sure is

[rancid slate]

It's possible this time ||the hand is not just a hand, but a prisoner, servant or not||

[rancid slate]

Probably refers to ||us helping this person||

[rancid slate]

It's also written that
||"these people cannot be trusted" so I doubt this person would want us to keep working as a servant for the Vanderboom too||

[mighty breach]

Loll surely

[craggy notch]

||i'm kinda of the idea that it's a warning from alexandra but idk when she would be able to leave it there||

[rancid slate]

Well, she's a visitor and a Vanderboom herself so we should be afraid of her

[craggy notch]

||maybe she was plotting against the brothers, and that's why we don't see her after||

[rancid slate]

She may have interests considering ||her Timepiece|| and the game's description changing from "help the brothers achieve [...]" to "helping the family achieve their alchemical ambitions!"

[craggy notch]

<@&358613639554400258>

[grizzled bluff]

Thank you for the ping! I think automod caught it 😄

[azure bay]

I've just realized 1 thing. Alexandra is very unlikely to be Aldous's wife since they are on good terms but live separately. But how likely is she to be William's wife?

[rancid slate]

It's possible, but would make her James' aunt

[azure bay]

It sure would be cool if Alexandra were the missing piece to solve all the mess around the Vanderbooms but isn't it wishful thinking?

[rancid slate]

I would try to guess where James fits in SotL first considering its focus on serving and doing alchemy

Unrelated answers would still be nice

I guess Dale's birth date in Roots could be used as an example?

Tho I doubt it was a highly wanted one

[azure bay]

it was for The Cave

[rancid slate]

James in DotL

[azure bay]

James doesn't have to be an alchemy creation either.

Also the fact that the devs initially put a much earlier date makes me suspicious. If that was confusion about Aldous's year of birth James wasn't on their mind. If it was confusion about a date from Roots, he could be tho

do you know which was it?

[rancid slate]

1819?

[azure bay]

no I mean the confusion

[rancid slate]

No

But I would guess Aldous' bday for only being in Paradox

[azure bay]

if so, James wouldn't be born for another 20 years

[rancid slate]

I presume they did revisited Roots for it

[rancid slate]

Would also mean the Elixir took 40 years if its discovery was planned from the start

Making Caroline the GOAT once again for living at most 46 years

[azure bay]

Neither bothers me

[rancid slate]

Well, it's 1839 now

[azure bay]

do they have enough time to write James into the game?

would they want to?

[rancid slate]

Possibly

They could still delay if they wanted to

Considering the message from last year's holiday, I think they intended to release this year

[azure bay]

*angry Ellesian noises*

Jokes aside, I'd love that but I'm not certain it's realistic

[rancid slate]

Plot twist

We get Mary's origin instead

[rancid slate]

James could a subplot too?

Can see that

[azure bay]

I wonder how SotL would change my lore-oriented playthrough order

[rancid slate]

For now it's playable just after Roots

But may be more fitting before a DotL-type

[azure bay]

I wonder if it will be playable before Roots

or at least after Paradise

It would probably fit the origin story group

but if there's something big leading to Hotel 2, after UB that is

either way, if something comes up, nobody can forbid moving the game elsewhere. The order was created temporary from the start and can be altered by new games coming out

[rancid slate]

Seems currently possible

I guess the only "spoiler" would be the two being called the Alchemist Brothers?

[rancid slate]

Mmmm that too, hopefully there's the book or Caroline's stuff

[rancid slate]

You mean the official one?

[azure bay]

I mean mine

it's meant to be flexible in order to present the current lore

[rancid slate]

After Roots would still be the minimum, I guess

It introduces the Elixir, so having its discovery later could feel more important

[azure bay]

Personally, in isolation from all I don't see any difference between playing Hotel 1st or Paradise. The pieces end up in their respective places, the overall story is clear either way.

I don't rule out SotL vs Roots situation being the same. Yeah, they introduce the brothers and their elixir in Roots, they explain how it works and what happened. But SotL seems so early in the timeline that it can easily take the introduction part without revealing the spoilers.

Only if something external affects it on a broader scope. I put Hotel before Paradise because of The Mill and Hotel further developing the character it introduces. Paradise itself can drag SotL behind Roots, Albert could put it after TPW or UB and Hotel 2 could commit "get over here" depending on what is revealed

[rancid slate]

Isnt Paradise after Roots in your order?

[azure bay]

that's the point. If Paradise is necessary to fully understand SotL, it takes it with it. No matter whether you need to play Roots before or after

[rancid slate]

SotL before Hotel

[azure bay]

if not for The Mill, why not?

[rancid slate]

SotL.. before Harvey's Box

[marble granite]

Not sure if it's appropriate to send here or in the main chat- is there a main website or resource that has the Rusty Lake story so far easily accessible? Like with the timeline laid out? I know Rusty Lake is on-going, and I've been playing the games for years, but I only recently started really wondering about the story. I've only really payed attention to the puzzles, I love point and clicks. I would use Fandom but I generally distrust it. I'm planning on watching the videos by "Flawed Peacock" so if anyone has seen them and is able to tell me how accurate they are then that'd be great! I like looking for story myself in games but there's so much to Rusty Lake and I'd really like a basic point to start from when it comes to the story.

Sorry for such a long message, just genuinely really wanna know the story and don't know where to start

[azure bay]

there's a wiki with timeline page, there's youtube.

Keep in mind that both are handled by the fans with their biases and possible misconceptions

YouTube has a bunch of creators. Only 2 so far managed to cover all the existing games

Zefiewings made an abridged timeline overview

Flawed Peacock made 4 couple of hours-long videos

[rancid slate]

I'd say Peacock focus more on the possible symbolism of many gameplay/puzzle aspects. (Or atleast thats how he spends most time of the videos)

[azure bay]

Also I'd prefer to recommend playing the games yourself and I can provide the story-focused playthrough order

[rancid slate]

Playing, replaying and getting most achievements

[marble granite]

I have all the achievements in the free cube escape games and Samsara Room, I'm just not the best with actually like. Figuring out where timeline stuff begins? I was gonna replay them over break and I do plan to buy some of the others soon

[rancid slate]

Marking years and connecting events are a good way to start

[azure bay]

yeah, premium games are important for understanding the bigger picture. If you want I can summarize Cube Escapes

[rancid slate]

For example, Case 23 and The Mill share the same moments a couple of times

[azure bay]

oh, I've got a bright idea

[marble granite]

If you do have a playthrough order then that'd be really good yeah

[azure bay]

Here
https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/comments/1efpiyn/comment/lfmkklf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[bitter garnet]

Not sure if this is possible but if you cant buy the premium games maybe you can try find a gameplay on YouTube or something?

Its not the same as actually playing but you can still see the lore on those videos

[azure bay]

In the meantime you could check this. It's official (at least it used to be). Although it misses some later Cube Escape games but otherwise a solid start

[rancid slate]

Should also be important to point that the Series are still being worked on, neither the Cave or Paradox are the actual "ending" of it

[azure bay]

I realized 1 thing.

The house illustration in Case 23 bebore ch1 is illuminated by the police lights

it's not abstract, it's literally what Dale "sees"

Except there can't be Laura in the background

meaning that the illustration is an asset reuse and the photo featuring her and a corrupted soul is the orifginal and canon

Time travel confirmed @vivid bridge

[rancid slate]

Dale just used his common RL future knowledge

[robust monolith]

this isn’t rlly a theory this is more some rambled thoughts i have about albert, so excuse how awful it’s written. but i believe it makes sense that he is in “love” with ida because he possibly feels jealous towards samuel. hear me out. also roots spoilers for specific levels so i’m censoring it lol

||samuel was likely the “wanted child”, we know this as in the chapter childbirth we are tasked with feeding the triplets, water for emma, wine for albert, and milk for samuel. victorians knew to never, ever give a newborn baby water (babies should not drink water until 6 months and even then it’s only small sips), and while they would give babies some amounts of wine it’s not recommended at all and wasn’t then either. that leads me to believe samuel was the wanted triplet, he’s male so he could get a good job (which he did!), he could become the man of the house once james died, and he didn’t have any marks or scars like albert did. in child’s play we also see that he is fine standing alone playing with his slingshot, and seems to be the happy and outgoing one of the group. as he gets older we see he’s the only (seemingly) employed triplet. Samuel feels happy and secure in his face, he has a good job that would pay well for the time, a beautiful wife, and a son. he is everything albert cannot be, and emma is everything albert would not want to be as she is an unmarried woman with child (but she still needed to be “punished” for what happened hence why albert trapped frank)||

||it also makes sense that once ida died albert wanted something of his own, his brother and sister had a child so why couldnt he? hence why he created rose out of ida’s egg, it’s also at this point in the game that he stops wearing masks and seems happier. he has something of his own that he created from his jealousy, the family he hated are gone, and the brother who had everything he didn’t is now dead by his own hands||

tldr; a tale in three pictures

[rancid slate]

Made a poll about Alexandra's placement as a Vanderboom family member (Ends next week)
https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/s/abyreTZqds

[worldly jolt]

👋

[worldly jolt]

👋

[azure bay]

https://tenor.com/view/gort-capybara-waving-wave-waving-hand-gif-4552387419615603702

[waxen pumice]

9

[patent lion]

Hi, do you need any help?

[waxen pumice]

No tnx

[wild dragon]

does anyone know whats this mean in sanscrit?

[vivid bridge]

first one is Preta, the hungry ghosts who in Rusty Lake are the corrupted souls. The second word is "phed" in Lao, which is also a type of ghost

so same thing basically

[wild dragon]

Thank u😊

[azure bay]

So they are siblings after all

[rancid slate]

Poll results!

[azure bay]

I wonder how many people have put a bet on Aldous's marriage specifically

[rancid slate]

That's why I put "Some may turn out to be true, controversial and [...]"

[azure bay]

it's not about you, it's about them

[rancid slate]

"We hope you enjoyed a glimpse 👀 of the original Vanderboom siblings" feels as if either their parents aren't Vanderboom or we won't be seeing them

Maybe only now they are changing their last names to "Vanderboom"

[azure bay]

I don't overthink it that much, we just had some vdb siblings, but now we have those who came before. Not necessarily 1st

[rancid slate]

Mmm

[craggy notch]

i think alexandra died before roots but after giving birth to james, and that she IS a sister of the alchemists either that or perhaps, and this one is more improbable of a theory IMO, she married aldous, and left without him at some point, either due to a fight or he simply stayed with his brother to study the elixir and such

[azure bay]

1. She was confirmed to be a sister just yesterday

2. Even if she wasn't she's too welcome as a guest at Aldous's estate to be his ex

3. To be James's mother she needs to have no husband. Whatever reason for that would be, it's exceptional enough to require exceptionally blunt evidence

[ionic plaza]

why the hell do I see a villager in this

also

what would happen if they never found the elixir?

[rancid slate]

Death

[ionic plaza]

what a fast ending of a theory

[rancid slate]

We speedrunnin

[frail haven]

Ok, so i finally finished playing through all of the rusty lake games, and i have a few theories surrounding Harvey that i need to get off my chest before i explode (Also its almost 2am where i am so if im not making too much sense grammatically, just bear with me 😵 )

Basically, to put it briefly, I think that Harvey is somehow connected to the blue cubes in some way.
||In his first appearance, he appears in CE:Seasons, where the whole mechanic is to go back in time and change the past. This game and harvey have both been referenced often in the games (specifically bringing up the concept of Harvey's egg being the beginning of everything). Something harvey creates being tied directly to the beginning of the events of the games seems very deliberate imo, especially with eggs symbolising the beginning of life.
Now, onto the more damning evidence: the whole of Underground blossom. As most of us know, Harvey is the player character of UB, and what is he doing in this game? Travelling back and forth through time via the trains, and manipulating the clocks in each station to cause certain events. Whether you interpret the game as being metaphorical or literal (as in whether it takes place in a memory or not) , it is undeniable that Harvey has a motif of effecting time.
to cap off this particular theory, you could even try to link this logic to the other birds of the lake, which would be Mr. Owl = Golden cube and Mr. Crow = black/white cubes, but my evidence isnt that good in comparison.||

||Also, before i forget, Harvey is around the longest in the timeline considering he was present briefly during Paradise in bird form. I know some might think that Harvey has always been a bird, but i call bs because in all the time we have seen Immortal dog, not once have they been shown as a deva/asura, meanwhile we have proof that harvey is a deva/asura. By this logic, Harvey has been a human turned deva since before Paradise [which i doubt], or he's a time traveller, which seems more likely considering the evidence above.||

Now, onto the other big thing i want to get off my chest: There is some sort of connection between Harvey and the Vanderbooms.

[frail haven]

||The obvious link is between Laura and Harvey, but i want to start earlier than that. I want to start with Roots.
During the events of the search, we see that Emma gives bird form harvey the message for Frank. I want to pose the question of 'why would she do this?' The RL games are very surreal, i know, but roots is one of the more grounded games. She doesnt have a reason to entrust a wild parrot with such an important note; unless theres a connection there. And there probably is, considering how harvey fulfills his duty and brings frank the message.
Now, back to UB. Rose entrusts Harvey specifically with looking after Laura. Not mr owl (which makes sense), yet not Aldous, her own great-granuncle. Now, he was the cause of what happened in her family, but he still has more of a direct connection to Laura than Harvey (That we know of, anyway) [also, Rose is attempting to bring back albert, so she doesnt seem to mind dabbling around bad/morally ambiguous people.]
Harvey takes this responsibility very seriously, at least in my eyes. In school street, he basically messes with the kids bullying laura in order to get what he needs. He frightens that one girl with the paper plane, checks their pockets, lets eggs fall on them, and even gives one kid an allergic reaction.However, the more damning evidence is what happens with the thief. Now, if we needed to interrogate/force the thief to fess up the info, that was one thing. But the torture that harvey goes through with for laura's sake was something that i can really describe as personal. {honestly me too tho, fuck that guy lol].
However, at the end of the game, when the cube achievements are completed and he returns back to the hotel, Mr Owl tells Harvey that "It's time to get back to work," or something like that... so if that wasnt work/ an order from mr owl, why was Harvey protecting Laura for so long? Hell, has his involvement in the Vanderbooms since Roots been a personal thing for him this whole time? Why?||

[frail haven]

||Now, the most interesting thing to me is the specific link between Harvey, Laura, Rose, and Albert.
Laura's connection is obvious, they've been a duo since the beginning. It gets more interesting when we look at Rose. Rose refers to Harvey as a friend on several occasions, and even directly invites him to the lab and entrusts him with extracting the black cube from her. Once again, i want to ask why it was harvey in particular that she summoned, who doesnt have experience with cube extractions as far as we know. That's Aldous's job. And she most likely knows of him considering her interactions with williams' soul in Roots. Hell, she probably knows mr owl too, but didn't ask him. And when he extracts the cube, theres this desperate tone in her words when she says, "Run, Harvey," Like theres something only he can do, or only something she trusts him with.
The links with albert are small, but the most interesting imo. In the lab + BKM areas, we encounter Albert a few times, yet not once does he attack. He does some freaky stuff, but never once does he lay a hand on harvey, even seeming almost polite when speaking to him [take this with a grain of salt tho, its still albert]. Albert killed the janitor within the same timeframe as harvey was there, which i think more proof. And before you say that 'harvey was spared because he's a deva/asura', i would like to remind you of the fact that corrupted souls can and have attacked harvey before, during the hotel incident. So why didnt albert attack him when he had the chance? It doesn't make sense. And at the end of the lab area, when the cube is put into the cubical device, we see many flashes of things from tpw, but specifically albert. The cubical device didn't cause either player from tpw to experience flashes like that on either side of time, so why does harvey see them? why are they so intense? It could just be for the sake of the Run Harvey Run game in tpw, but be fr... these games are never that simple.||

||Finally, what do i think is going on:
Personally, i believe that harvey acts as some sort of guardian for the vanderbooms. Their crest may depict a crow, but its always the parrot looking out for them. Maybe he was a distant relative or a friend in the past who was exposed to the elixir in some way, or maybe he was just there from the beginning.||

||Also he's 100% trans you cant change my mind lol||

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[azure bay]

1st of all, you don't need to use spoilers for old games, only the most recent one and even in that case there's the spoiler thread. Basically people are warned. But thx for consideration.

1. I wouldn't say that Crow is inherently connected to black & white cubes and Owl is to the golden one. The cubes are just there and they are used by whoever knows about them. Owl dealt with black cubes as Jakob and a white cube is a big finale of Hotel. A golden cube was taken by Rose and Albert. And, I'm dead sure, golden cubes didn't even exist as a concept until The Cave or at least Roots.

2. Another problem is, Harvey used to be an asura. But he died in the secret Bday scene. Mr. Owl personally resurrected him as a bird. Mr. Owl himself struggles to preserve his own asura form, so most likely he's unable to grant it to others.

Since then Harvey has been basically a parrot and wouldn't make sense otherwise. He's always hungry like a bird, he eats bird food like a bird, he shits under himself like a bird, he can't easily escape a meager cardboard box like a bird. He was attacked by corrupted souls thrice (Seasons, HB, Mill) but never transformed, which would at least give more fighting chances.

Only UB breaks this pattern. And Harvey the asura there is either a metaphor (like basically the whole game) or a very daring retcon. Unless the devs have a damn good explanation to patch the inevitable plot holes, it's better to be the former.

[azure bay]

3. I don't think Harvey is connected specifically to the Vanderbooms either. I think we'd at least see him in Roots more often. But even that wouldn't entirely prove it. It feels more like Harvey just lives his own life, befriending different neighbors an helping them out when he feels like it, be that Owl, Emma or Rose.

4. What do you mean by Albert never lays a finger on Harvey? You can stretch the vent jumpscare as freaky stuff but he would totally kill Harvey in the end if Rose didn't cover him with her body.

Why doesn't Albert do it immediately? He's not vengeful or feral like the guests. His mentality's closer to Caroline's and William's because he's more bored than hungry. Taking the janitor was a sport for him. "That [the janitor] was a strong one". There's no interest in taking Harvey right away especially when there is other pray available.

5. Most likely Harvey sees the Cubical Device flashbacks because the player needs to see them. It's a mix of references and teasers. We the players recognize these scenes, we the players are playing Run Harvey Run afterwards, we the players are shown an unfamiliar image of Albert screaming and told that Rose's story isn't over yet. It's more meta than lore.

And also, even if it ends up that Harvey was involved with TPW storyline more than we've been shown, it doesn't really mean Albert wouldn't attack him (as he clearly did). Corruption has to mess up your mind and personality.

[azure bay]

Everyone is trans because in samsara every single living being is reborn with a random sex which inevitably leads to random transitions lol

[frail haven]

Cool

[frail haven]

I also forgot to mention here that we see that harvey sent a letter to dale in Birthday, which is also a game that involves reversing time, but i dont have much to say on that besides the thematic link

[rancid slate]

Personally, just like Dale's gift, I dont believe Harvey's and Owl's letters were part of the original event

[azure bay]

this one could be fake. It takes place inside a memory cube that was altered by Owl so Dale could have an opportunity to prevent his family's death

[azure bay]

<@&358613639554400258>

[untold stump]

thanks for the ping !

[floral eagle]

Here goes my theory:

The detective wasn't related to the family at all, but when he resolved a series of puzzles, the lake started to absorb his history, by linking him into the family tree, he tried to investigate the Laura's murder but he went so deep that real life started to distort in some sort of surreal reality, making him part of the lake... now the reason why lake want to get rid of investigation by absorving the detective story is a mystery, maybe the reason is that this was necessary to happen...

And yes: i believe the lake is an entity that controls time, traumas and other stuff related... maybe saturn.. since black cube in real life is a esoteric symbol of saturn, god of time, liberation and wealth...

[azure bay]

It's more like Mr. Owl was looking for a fitting successor, blood connections aren't taken into consideration

[frail haven]

Ok, now that i finally have access back to my laptop, i want to take the time to respond to this

1. I never said that mr crow or mr owl were connected, i merely suggested that there could be a link there. (Its also why i brought up birthday. It doesnt matter that the event was literal or not, its that harvey was involved at all in addition to the other instances.
2. Personally, i thought that Harvey wasn't killed. I never had that thought. I am under the belief that most asuras can shapeshift between animal and humanoid. I thought that he stayed as a bird as it was more convenient at times (being smaller and able to fly can be very helpful in certain situations). I also believe that he used his bird form as a disguise to keep an eye on Laura as she got older. And if im being honest, i personally see Harvey's box as a manifestation of his guilt on being unable to save her, and UB is him coming to terms with it and letting her go.
3. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, imo. I can totally see both of our points making sense, i just prefer mine a bit more.
4. Like i said, Albert had many chances to kill Harvey if he wanted to (the vent, the end of the BKM section, etc). I didn't see it as Rose covering harvey, as she didn't seem that panicked like anyone would be. If i recall correctly, she only apologised to him for him having to see all that.
5. I get what you mean, but i don't recall anything similar ever happening in any previous games. Like i said, in tpw, we never saw any flashes like that. Sure, that could potentially be a result of the floppy, but the C.D. s have had outside objects within them previously, and we never saw flashes before. I also think that the meta aspect is kinda boring, no offence.

I still want to thank you for the reply to my theory, it's nice to get any type of response lol. But i do want to just say that it is a fan theory at the end of the day; this is all my personal interpretation of events, and it's probably not going to align with some aspects perfectly. But thats the magic of it: everyone comes to their own conclusions, and theyre all valid until proven false definitively. And to be honest, i hope we dont get a canon answer for everything, because then a lot of the fun will be gone.

[azure bay]

Don't take me wrong, I don't lean on a single interpretation when it can be helped. For example, for a long time cubes were really ambiguous. Even in Seasons we had "Change the past!" and "What do I remember?" clashing whether Laura lives in the end for real or not. And both interpretations were valid.

Now we have TPW and it definitely disproves cubes being just memories. A bit sad but at the same time it's a good thing because we can potentially better predict future games. And we can take it as foundation for new theories that may bring us closer to the truth.

With that said, we will never reach said truth. It's about the journey, not destination. Some ambiguities are intentional, some aren't the priority for the story to be resolved soon, some will inevitably stay when the series eventually ends. And until that happens, until the author will "die" for real, giving way to the reader, the theories must be discussed not only for personal validation but also to test their strength. Weak theories are sometimes destroyed, sometimes become better as you realize new arguments you wouldn't thought of otherwise, you learn to respond to counter-arguments. Sometimes weak theories are simply put on hold until the right evidence comes to make them relevant again.

Figuring out which theory is which, how plausible they are alone and in comparison, and knowing it afterwards while looking into the series' future is fun in its own right.

So if I may, I want to present my further arguments and evidence

2. Here's the screenshot. Harvey is dead to the left, Mr. Owl to the right resurrects him with his magic of T-pose.

I can consider a bird form as a commodity in certain cases but in others it was detrimental and it would make sense to change back. Or idk something could be done with that stupid box. It would be very embarrassing for an asura to seriously struggle with cardboard and dying because of that. Or why hiding when you're just chilling with your bro from work in The Mill?

What about samsara wheels? They consistently attribute Harvey to the animal realm.

[azure bay]

4. Speaking of Albert, I see that he failed to take Harvey in the vent. And in BKM, half a century later, he simply wasn't corrupted anymore.

And I don't think Rose is anyone to easily panic. If she were, she would have either way, considering the janitor blood bath. Either that or her emotions fell victim to format limitations. Characters in these games are rarely expressive.

And the fact stays, at 1 moment we see Albert launching at us, at the next we see Rose between him and us. What do you think a bored murderous corrupted soul would do and why is she suddenly there then?

[azure bay]

5. Meta stuff has been happening all along the way, especially recently. It's there, boring or not. We have a coming soon theatre poster in Birthday. We have young Laura in the TV because UB is coming soon. We have a crate full of memorabilia we don't recognize yet (but as I can see now, likely wouldn't make sense to be there). Now we have portraits of the VanderBros in a secret station because SotL is coming soon.

These games aren't pure story and lore. They are also contrived gameplay, surrealism for its own sake with no rhyme or reason (because it's fun, as the devs put it), symbolisms that mean something else. And yes, achievements, references and teasers.

And even when it is story and lore, it's not always consistent. We have at least 4 types of enlightenment, 2 types of golden cubes and a huge mess that corrupted souls are. Some of them die, some of them don't, some of them take over their former body, some of them leave it behind... It's rather soft magic, it does a lot of things we never saw before. Often with no second thought. The devs don't like to repeat themselves, they say.

[remote remnant]

so does anyone have any theories about what Arles & Harvey's box were about?

Or what their importance to the timeline is

[rancid slate]

Harvey's Box confirms Laura is the protagonist of The Lake, provides a year (1969) and I guess adds Harvey to the moment

Arles was considered a "side-step" when released

It introduced White Cubes

[rancid slate]

Note that Hotel also was considered a side-step

I dont have much to talk about Arles

[azure bay]

was it? I always felt Arles and HB were the devs putting a new spin to Cube Escape formula

[rancid slate]

In their own words, blogpost

[azure bay]

alright

still feels like "look, it's Cube Escape but the cube is a painting" "and now it's a cube-shaped cardboard box"

[rancid slate]

"We just released our new room escape game: Cube Escape: Arles
[...]
It’s a bit of side step from the Rusty Lake Seasons and The Lake story, but you can expect the same weird things:)"

"Our new game will be called: 'Rusty Lake Hotel'. As we already explained, this game will be a side-step from the Cube Escape series. But you will see a lot of similarities and as the name suggests, it will take place in the world of Rusty Lake."

Weird that I found no blogposts about HB

[craggy notch]

i like to think that mr. owl just took his cubes because he liked his art

[azure bay]

you mean in Hotel?

[craggy notch]

i mean that ||mr. owl put van gogh in the machine that we also see in UB and the cave||
spoilers for UB and the cave

that's my headcanon

[rancid slate]

I think that is for Paradox

[craggy notch]

laura isn't part of paradox as anything more than a vision though, she'd have a more active role if they were actually both inside the same mind

[azure bay]

their setups are assymetrical

[craggy notch]

i think she was going through something of her own in the machine

perhaps seasons?

might be a reach

[rancid slate]

Seasons is closer to UB ending

A happy ending

No life lesson

Or preparation

[craggy notch]

now that i think of it both seasons and UB would fit perfectly as what laura went through at the bottom of the lake

[azure bay]

Unlike Laura, Dale has an extra cable going from his headset. That explains why Dale is more active in Paradox than Laura.

Speaking of Seasons and Arles, we absolutely have to differentiate between memories and simulation. Paradox is a hand-built simulation based on no real events.

Seasons, Birthday, Theatre and Arles are memory cubes floating in the lake. They are based on something real and have dates. Seasons specifically feature a memory of 1981 events that didn't happen yet when Laura was at the lake bottom in 1972. Seasons have to take place later.

If Laura had any simulation of her own in The Cave/Paradox, we didn't see it yet

[craggy notch]

time...

[remote remnant]

yeah but they expanded upon hotel's lore, arles & harvey's box just feel like one offs

if you catch my drift

[rancid slate]

Early entries

[azure bay]

yes, time not existing in the lake can explain discrepancies in the order of events, but let's be real.

Seasons are like Birthday. We have a bad memory relived, in the end the protagonist gets a blue cube, rewinds time and changes said memory. They are basically identical and we know for certain that Birthday is NOT a simulation. It's a cube in the lake and so must be Seasons

On another note, if the order of events doesn't matter for the lake, it totally matters for a person in question. Consider them a time traveler. Are you saying Crow and Owl captured Laura from the future? How? Why not Laura from the present like Dale?

[craggy notch]

no i was just saying that it's confusing

but you ARE quite right

[remote remnant]

im confused 😵

[azure bay]

I can gladly elaborate and explain. There are no stupid questions

[remote remnant]

I get it now

[daring cloud]

are the only ways to be enlightened by a sacrifice or the elixir?

[rancid slate]

There's also the ending of The Past Within

However

[rancid slate]

Enlightenment itself isn't a realm

Is mostly an action, an event

Being reborn is enlightenment

As much as becoming Mr. Crow

[daring cloud]

Was the dog enlightened then?

[rancid slate]

I don't think so

Atleast not by appearence

[daring cloud]

It lived forever by the action of drinking the elixir.

[rancid slate]

Yeah, but it remained as a dog

[daring cloud]

True

So is there a way to determine what happens when you’re enlightened? Since the dog lived forever but didn’t change according to the wheel of life.

[rancid slate]

I presume enlightenment is either going to an upper realm and/or changing forms if a Tree is not of of the 6 realms

[rancid slate]

Maybe intention and reward

Seeking to achieve something greater

[daring cloud]

Hm, Okay… But in Jakob’s case he wasn’t looking to be enlightened, he was forced to take part in the sacrifice so he didnt have any intention.

[rancid slate]

Maybe

We play as him

So we cant know his intentions

Actually

In the end he says "Paradise will rise again"

So I think he knew why he was there

[daring cloud]

Oh I thought that was nickolas

[rancid slate]

Nicholas isn't Mr. Owl

[daring cloud]

Yeah I thought the person saying “Paradise will rise again” was Nickolas, I guess I just didn’t recognise the voice.

[rancid slate]

There are actually two things happening in the end

The sacrifice of Jakob to the family and the making of the Elixir

As shown in Caroline's book, all the ingredients were in each one of her cubes

In the ending, all cubes show their ingredients do there's pretty much the Elixir

Elixir of Life and Death

I think some believe the corrupted soul is Jakob too but I think it makes more sense as Caroline since she's the corrupted soul of the game

So Caroline and Jakob consume the Elixir

But the rest of the family still needed a sacrifice to become the guests

[daring cloud]

So the sacrifice corrupted the family but the elixir killed caroline and enlightened jakob?

[rancid slate]

So Jakob prob died when burning and Caroline made the Elixir while he was dead

Corrupted? I think they got enlightened as they asked for it

[daring cloud]

I guess so

[rancid slate]

It should make sense this way

There's not much sense if Jakob getting enlightened was also part of the family's ritual

[daring cloud]

I think I understand now

I got another question, What or who forced William to take part in the samsara room? Why didn’t he just get reborn instantly?

[rancid slate]

I don't think it is completely canon since it doesn't have many content even in the remake

But I guess it would just be the ending of Roots but in this pov

Maybe it does happen instantly but takes time from his pov

[daring cloud]

Ohh alright

[rancid slate]

It feels like a lesson about rebirth but it also doesn't touch the Samsara wheel

[vague imp]

<@&358613639554400258>

[azure bay]

is the automod dead?

[daring cloud]

How is Mr Crow in the Hotel if it is set in 1851 and Aldous is Mr Crow and he doesn't turn into Mr Crow until 1859?

[daring cloud]

Is this a good definition for Enlightenment?

Drinking the Elixir of Life and Death,
Delivering a sacrifice to the lake Or
Whatever happened at the end of The Past Within

The result of Enlightenment is based on the intentions of the people or person at the time, Most of the time it is based on the Wheel of Life but it can also change attributes such as making you live forever.

[prisma forum]

i think so yes

[azure bay]

Hotel is 1893

[daring cloud]

Oh, I just checked and you’re right. Dont know why I thought it was 1851.

[azure bay]

It's crazy how I never bothered to memorize dates in history lessons at school but remember them day and night for RL

[pulsar python]

hdhdjdjjd

[remote remnant]

when do y'all think the series will end?

everything must come to a close, but even after 10 years of rusty lake I can't see it ending anytime soon

[floral eagle]

Can i ask who is the reincarnation of who in Rusty lake series? I feel like there's that samsara and if i am not wrong this is about incarnations and mysteries... also, the concept of the game was based in which religion? It feels like mix of hinduism, budism and an folk religion

[daring cloud]

The past is never dead. It’s not even past.

[daring cloud]

Samsara room we play as William, he was sent there by the lake or some entity to learn about the Wheel of Life before he was reborn as Laura Vanderboom

[rancid slate]

Dale's journey may finally end soon if they do it after SotL, but it could happen later I guess. After that, I presume the next main story will be Albert's

[remote remnant]

What if during dotl Albert shows up & drinks Laura's elixir & he dies & dale rules the lake and everyone lives happily ever after

Just throwing it out there

[floral eagle]

Ok now i get it, i saw 2 videos of 4 hours of theory of rusty lake(damn it was a lot of information to process), all i can say is that maybe i understand what the lake is...

The lake, is a place that has 2 coexisting places at the same time, one is in spiritual realm, other is the real life realm, the main reason i suspect this. Is because of the Rusty lake paradise, since we don't see more than 1 island, i suspect that the paradise island, is in the same location were Rusty lake Hotel is placed, but the difference is that one is real and other is spiritual. the main reason i think this, is because the eusty lake paradise puzzles felt like had a lot of more realistic tones... this place, rusty lake is the lake that is a portal to the sacred, and is haunted... that's why we see things that technically can't happened in the same time, like animals meeting in the hotel is not happening exactly at the same time that it was supposed to happen(wrong years) this is what i believe is a visage of what is happening in the spiritual realm, the lady of the lake, however, plagued the lake, and it caused majority of problems that may happened in real place... technically speaking, the spiritual realm is the place were the corrupted souls, Animal people, gods(mr.owl) and ghosts appear... so it means... that dale probably was dead when the cube escape case 23 happened... and the rest is just about dale investigating death inside the spiritual realm, and that's why there's a lot of surreal elements... maybe dale and mr.owl, was the only real people who entered spiritual realm that's why mr.Owl is interested in Dale...

Maybe i am wrong... but for me trying to understand it gave me major headache, so i tried to assume certain things

[rancid slate]

Paradise and Hotel are in the same island yes, but both are real :b Hotel was built after Paradise (you can see its silhouette at the ending of Paradise when Mr. Owl says "Paradise will rise again")

Hotel guests in 1870 (if thats what you meant) dont need to be the same moment in 1893. In the game, each guest had a very custom room, and considering they "just arrived", I doubt they would put everything there that quickly. You can see their stamps already on the box after they even go to their rooms, so I believe the guests already had gone to the Hotel before (atleast since 1870) and now it's their last time

While there is a evidence for Dale being dead (That I believe you didnt mentioned), Im pretty sure he's alive. Rusty Lake as a whole is real too, including the surreal elements

I think the Lake's Forest may be what confuses you, since it's beneath the Lake, but I think that one is as real as well. Things that are spiritual are.. Samsara Room, ending of Roots and Paradise and other things, I guess. The White Door has dreams of memories. Seasons, Birthday and Theatre are inside cubes. Underground Blossom is metaphorical

And there's a problem in your statement: If Dale being in a spiritual realm is why there are surreal things, then why do they already appear before The Chapel? Laura's corpse rises up, a finger appears from a shell, a cat poops an egg, Bob turns into a Corrupted Soul and event Laura's hand leaves the tv

[rancid slate]

It's a good way of thinking tho

I assume you watched Flawed Peacock's video

Video being too long may be why it looks hard to understand

But some aspects are easier than they seem

We are not sure exactly why Dale is the "Chosen One", but we do have reasons why Mr. Owl wants him too

[craggy notch]

i think dale only crosses into that spiritual realm once hooked up to the golden cube machine and experiences paradox

[rancid slate]

Yeah, that is the closest thing

[craggy notch]

and laura technically did that twice

with UB and seasons

[rancid slate]

UB was in the Lake

Seasons are in memories

Assuming both moments are the same, she did it once

[craggy notch]

what i mean is they don't happen in the real physical realm

unless the lake conjured up a series of train stations for laura

[rancid slate]

The trains are not canon, if you get it

[craggy notch]

the craziest part about UB is probably that the trains always arrived in time

[rancid slate]

The game's setting of metro stations is just for the metaphorical telling of "moments of Laura's life"

One station or another may be real

Like physically

But atleast Sorrow Cross isn't

[rancid slate]

And besides that, it wouldn't even be Laura experiencing it, but Harvey

[craggy notch]

wait no i was going on a completely unrelated tangent, you're right on this one

[rancid slate]

I believe Seasons takes place during the Blossom tornado part

Mostly because she is corrupted in Seasons

So it wouldn't make much sense for Seasons to be after that

However, the absence of cubes could make the Blossom tornado figurative as well

Maybe, just like Sorrow Cross shows 1969-1971, and The Lake has no time, Seasons if an "off-screen" that during the few seconds of the Tornado or something like that

(The physical part of finding the cubes, that's what I mean)

Unless they are right inside her head

[rancid slate]

Actually, mostly because of her line and the visuals showing her life

Or her past lives

[remote remnant]

Are the CS in the lake & in harvey's box the same?

[rancid slate]

I think so

[remote remnant]

& what is the true ending of the lake? the green or blue diamond one?

[rancid slate]

Both

Blue -> Green

Blue is the intended and Green is technically the hidden ending

The note says "The Past is never Dead [...]" which could imply the Green gem is changing the past of Blue ending

In that case, Lake could be a cube and not the real event

But if you have to pick one, it'd be the green one since Laura lives

But

Seasons already has different timelines and UB's description mentiones them too

So both Blue and Green are true endings and/or true events

We happen to be playing, in the later games, the timeline where Laura survived

[floral eagle]

The funny part about all this confusion.... is harvey... we don't know where he was born, but we know he was once a mr.Parrot, and yet he was present the whole time... even in the paradise... i think he took the elixir...

[craggy notch]

the real question is... who drank it with him?

the mammoth?

[rancid slate]

If he was that old I dont think he'd even need the Elixir

Could go Eilander style with a sacrifice or a "new" way we don't know of

[craggy notch]

perhaps he's just like that on his own

[autumn ridge]

Which tornado?

I forgot

(the last rusty lake's game that I'd played was the underground blossom, and even so I forgot it)

[rancid slate]

The one made from the blossom of Rose's tree

And goes around Laura

[autumn ridge]

Ahhhhh yes

I thought you are talking about this

Interesting

[frail haven]

Back on my bullshit with another theory i had when explaining TPW to a friend.
I believe that the choice between the bee and the butterfly are actually representative between two separate timelines. The bee path is meant to show a timeline where Albert couldn't get over his past, as evidenced by the photo of Ida in his pocket and the imagery of the bee as a representative of the negative aspects of his past that had driven his actions and went on to haunt Rose.
The butterfly, however, I believe is meant to represent a timeline where he tried to move on and be better for his daughter, as we see a photo of Rose in his pocket, and the butterfly could represent the positive aspects of his life, or maybe an attempt at metamorphosis to be better for the sake of his daughter.
I like this idea because it means that two interpretations can be true at once: him being a toxic father figure unable to let go of the past, and someone attempting to do better and move on for the sake of the only person he has left. Both ideas work well with the themes i can pick out in this series

Almost forgot: it could also help visualise how rose was seen in either timeline.
In the bee timeline, she was seen as an extension of the woman he couldn't have, but in the butterfly timeline, she is Rose, her own person.

[remote remnant]

I'm watching the flawed peacock's video on Rusty Lake & in it he says that ||he believes Paradox takes place after Theatre & Birthday/After the ending of Hotel/At the hotel itself, while for some time now I've believed that Paradox takes place after Case23, but before Theatre & Birthday. I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this, which theory do you think is correct or if there are more out there that I havent heard of yet.||

[rancid slate]

He updates it in the next video, I think

[floral eagle]

Actually i believe the paradox is happening during the events of the cave... because Dale maintains eyes closed, in aspect of dream state... ||but there's a secret ending in both chapters, one, the Dale took the green vial, making him die and Laura survive... with white cube while the second chapter, he took the gold cube and enters in the elevator that makes him go to rusty lake hotel, to succeed the mr.owl, and Laura later takes the elevator with mr. Crow... showing what happened when the paradox was broken by green liquid or golden cube||

[steel oracle]

As I see all the event in Paradox and the dale games are real. The different ends are different times he goes again and again to reach the true wisdom related to that memories

[daring cloud]

The half-corrupted soul that we see in Cube Escape: The Lake sort of looks like the fisherman from Cube Escape: The Cave, If anyone knows the time periods can they see if this matches up?

[rancid slate]

The Lake is 1969, Cave 1972

[daring cloud]

If I understand Dale's story correctly, Mr. Rabbit kills his parents at his 9th birthday leaving him with trauma, Laura gets killed and Dale investigates the case which leads Dale to the lake.

Mr Owl sends Dale to destroy the corrupted soul in the cabin but Dale escapes below the lake in the elevator, going through his memories (Birthday and Theater).

Then after Cave Dale gets sent to Paradox, then ascending into the hotel... Did I miss anything?

[rancid slate]

The Cabin CSoul is the one in Case 23, right? If so, Dale doesnt do anything against it but run out, descending to the depths

[rancid slate]

For Birthday and Theatre, the Elevator goes up

So it can't he after Case 23, since he's going down

Case shows Dale coming down to the depths (on one of the murals) and going to the Big White Cube

In the ending of Cave, Dale goes up in the Hotel Elevator

So that should be when Birthday and Theatre take place

Many believe Paradox takes place during Cave, me included

[daring cloud]

Ohhh alright

tysm!

[daring cloud]

Is this accurate? I'm filling in some of the details with assumptions.

[daring cloud]

Do we know when william was born?

[daring cloud]

Can someone become corrupted only if they're associated with the lake or could someone become corrupted no matter what?

[rancid slate]

No :(

[craggy notch]

on his birthday in his year of birth

[rancid slate]

Ah yes

[rancid slate]

Closest we have are Bob and Gogh, maybe the ARG patients but I don't know if they were corrupted

[remote remnant]

yeah that's what I think too

[azure bay]

Nah, both the Bee and Butterfly represent his past grudges. In both versions Rose is his greatest achievement, in both versions they have a happy family portrait, in both versions Rose is in his pocket in The Future and he knows it.

[azure bay]

Paradox is told to take place inside Dale's mind on multiple occasions

[azure bay]

It's not half-corrupted. It's just a rotten corpse with a CS residing inside. Corruption is always pitch-black. Even when it's half-corruption like one of forest Dales in Paradox

[azure bay]

Looks legit. Except I'd put Nicolas's birth before Caroline's. He looks older and that would historically make sense

[azure bay]

The devs said that samsara works independently from the lake

[remote remnant]

Is it confirmed the plague doctor in Paradise is the dad?

[rancid slate]

Not confirmed, but in earlier screenshots Nicholas uses the same black robe as the Plague Doctor

But yknow, David, Jakob and, James, Albert and maybe others all use the same sprites of clothing

And I guess some Hotel guests, the Alchemists, Harvey and others too

[azure bay]

Personally I get NO Nicolas vibes whatsoever

He always has something to say

Y'know, using actual voicelines

[remote remnant]

I just replayed seasons & I still don't quite understand the ending. Does anyone have any interpretation of it that makes sense?

[rancid slate]

We play as the corrupted soul that killed Laura. I see the juices as "subtances of her past lives", so we balance it and it allows us to ~change the past, revealing we are Laura (and it was suicide)

Laura overcomes depression and a new timeline is made, where she doesn't kill herself

It matches UB's "life without sorrow"

According to someone that registeref a QnA "You need the elixir to be enlightened, but it can exist in many forms. a form of it existed in seasons" so it's possible Laura's juices became a kind of Elixir that allowed her go be enlightened (that beam from the phone would the enlightenment, I guess) and defeat her dark soul

And since 1981 is a memory, we should consider Seasons taking place at a late period, so probably after The Day of the Lake

Counts as evidence to "Laura will die again in The Day of The Lake"

[rancid slate]

With UB, it's also now possible Harvey and/or Rose helped Laura on Seasons either in an internal or external way

Most likely the blossom, but it could be many things

For now, I believe the blossom guided Laura through her memories "to Seasons"/her past

[fickle basin]

Had this thought while going back to work but

So in roots, Jakob and his mother, Caroline, become enlightened together, in a sense - using her memories and his work, he "becomes enlightened" as Mr. Owl, but her soul is very much with him.

Is the cycle supposed to be repeating with Laura and Dale? Laura's memories, her having died previously, Dale following her trace, combating hiw own feelings and memories to the day of the lake, the cerimony to achieve enlightment - and just like the elixir of life and death, there's always two, one alive, one dead. Did Mr. Owl just ensure Laura and Dale would fall into the places he needs them to be? To take over what he and his mother protected? Maybe Harvey, ever present, is a guardian of the lake itself, and that's why he was tasked with Laura's care after Rose was taken? I dunno, not fully fleshed out. Brain is soup

It would fit into this cycle idea, but I'm unsure if this was mentioned since I just thought of it instead of back reading

[azure bay]

1. Jakob and Caroline used the elixir, by all logic 1 of them should be dead and it's not Jakob. There's no Caroline because Mr. Owl manifests only Jakob's identity and has no idea how to properly make an elixir.

2. Dale and Laura will use the elixir too. That's what the book in The Cave says and what Laura in Paradox implies by repeating again that 1 will die, the other will be enlightened.

3. Mr. Owl seems mortal he ensures his job continues beyond him.

4. Harvey seems just Harvey. Rose asked Harvey to protect Laura because she trusted him.

[fickle basin]

Maybe I'm just a sap, but I like the idea Caroline clings to Mr. Owl in the subtle ways. A reminder that his mother is proud of him, ya know? Even if Dale and Laura are missing the elixir piece of the puzzle, that's almost what I felt the green vial was in paradox.

Even if Mr. Owl is mortal he's still long lived. I feel like he's not above manipulating the odds to get what he believes is the right outcome.

Harvey can become protector of the Lake because he wants to ensure Laura is ok. As a treat

[azure bay]

Physically we see no evidence of Caroline. Considering how samsara works, I'd bet on her becoming something else as everyone should.

The green vial is a green vial. Basically a poison. Dale needs to die so he doesn't kill Laura and thus saves her. But all that are rules exclusively of the mind palace of Paradox.

The actual elixir is the golden cube from The Cave. It was made from William's memories just like Caroline made hers in Paradise.

Not sure what you mean by the right outcome and changing the odds.

[fickle basin]

Oh, I suppose it's less theory and more headcanon territory about a whisper of Caroline in Mr. Owl. The past is never dead, it just follows you in your shadow.

I mean when I say changing the odds, that Mr. Owl had some influence in how Laura and Dale got to Rusty Lake - he had to make sure that his job has a replacement, so I like to think Mr. Owl had some background in getting them to the Lake. Probably via Mr. Crow, but Mr. Crow kind of does whatever he feels like at the time to me.

I've had this mental image of, where if Mr. Owl is alone at night, sometimes his shadow looks like Caroline's corrupted soul. Implication that she's in the background of him. Less lore and more cool factor, I suppose.

[azure bay]

Well, that's for sure. Owl knew Dale would probably replace him before he was even born. He saw him in the Hotel "prophecy" cube. Laura, on the other hand, was important because she was the last line to the lost elixir crucial to their plan.

However there are some gaps. The further we go, the less idea I have of why Owl made Laura win a trip to RL. Or why they need her beyond her elixir memories. Recapturing her soul, resurrecting her - all so she balances out Dale during the final ritual is quite a hustle. So far I don't really see why not finding somebody else

[fickle basin]

I would assume the reason for all that is because of Laura's status as "result of the vanderboom family going to shit"

Gives me the mental image of Aldous on a therapist's couch complaining to Mr. Owl about Albert being the worst person alive

[azure bay]

the most funny part they are likely even unaware that Albert is now alive and kicking

[fickle basin]

Mr. Crow voice: "My grand nephew's a piece of work, Jakob. I thought your father was bad."
Mr. Owl voice: "Don't bring my father into this."

I do think that her being in Aldous' family tree, with William's intent to be reborn, is why Mr. Owl wanted her for the lake, though.

At least that's what I would gather the reason is, especially since Mr. Crow watched it all happen in real time and did literally nothing to stop it

[azure bay]

the devs said that Laura is somehow a new Lady of the Lake but we have no idea when exactly she becomes such and what it means in the 1st place

[fickle basin]

I interpreted the whole Lady of the Lake piece to be the duet to the "Mr. Owl" role

[azure bay]

and this could probably be Aldous's remaining loyalty to his late brother

[fickle basin]

Where Caroline was the lady of the lake, that title passes down to Laura. Maybe it was Rose's at some point, not sure, but it kinda tied into my idea of Caroline always being with Mr. Owl, until the role is given to Laura and Dale.

[remote remnant]

What if it isn't even a title it's just the female equivalent to Mr Owl's current role

he could be "Lord of the Lake" for all we know

🤷‍♂️

[fickle basin]

Oh this was probably the real reason. He did watch his brother die in real time and went "ok I'll be back gotta go talk to Mr. Owl".

Mr. Crow just does not seem the type to handle things like "emotions" or "empathy" to me

[azure bay]

Laura doesn't add up. If Dale is the new ruler of the Lake, Laura doesn't stay by his side. She's dead and corrupted until che changed that in Seasons

[fickle basin]

"Well. My beloved brother's dead now. Life goes on. Bye"

[azure bay]

the Lady of the Lake originates from Arthurian mythos. There's no "lord" of the lake and Owl's position of the ruler is unrelated

[fickle basin]

See but doesn't that also fit with Caroline? She's also dead and has been the entire time Mr. Owl has been in his role. Maybe not side by side in the way that Jakob and his mother were, but parallel in the same fashion of one only arriving at the other's death.

[azure bay]

"We are always here in our past and future lives"

[fickle basin]

"Your dead body can stay on the floor tho I don't want that shit"

I get how Mr. Crow thinks in that regard it's just so funny from an outsider perspective. Mr. Crow knows his brother is just gone for the moment but to someone who just plays I think Cave? Might be Roots, this Crow Guy does NOT care

[azure bay]

I see no obligatory connection. Laura's case reminds me of the guests. They are all basically ghosts. Eventually they are reborn or at least try to (like Mr. Rabbit in bDay). They can stay dead for decades

[fickle basin]

Possibly, but I do think it's more mirror themes than it is intended connection

Or maybe it is intended and I have a massive brain

Only the devs can tell me

[azure bay]

At least it's a sure thing that Paradise+Paradox are about the generational succession and history repeating itself

2 humans becoming the ruler of the lake via taking elixir during the Day of the Lake on Paradise, sacrificing a woman in the process. Probably both were Ladies of the Lake at the time

[remote remnant]

what even is the lady of the lake in the RL universe

[azure bay]

https://tenor.com/bmcaV.gif

[craggy notch]

usually a symbol for a sacrifice or maybe even martyrdom

[rancid slate]

Being a woman and at the Lake

[craggy notch]

like laura, ms. pheasant and MAYBE just maybe alexandra

[remote remnant]

Ik about the arthurian one but i dont recall anyone giving mr owl excalibur

[craggy notch]

and of course

caroline

[azure bay]

originally it's a witch overseeing the lake. One of them gifted Excalibur to king Arthur

[craggy notch]

i actually pulled it out because i was worthy

[fickle basin]

Mr. Owl doesn't need Excalibur, he can just send Harvey at you and you die

[azure bay]

I'm sure Ms. Pheasant only played a role

[rancid slate]

Acting as it

[craggy notch]

fair

but still

the other 3

[craggy notch]

i confirm that i can do this

[fickle basin]

I need to draw this when I have time because I can see Mr. Owl's exact expression in my head

[fickle basin]

Woe, Harvey be upon ye

[craggy notch]

do you want to come to my hotel

the elevator is broken

[remote remnant]

The hotel's been renovated if the newspaper from UB is canon so I wonder what it looks like now

[fickle basin]

Mr. Owl voice: "Come to my Hotel. Talk to me and ignore the African Grey Parrot Holding A Steel Chair Behind You."

[azure bay]

we'll see in Hotel 2

when Dale finally gets there

[fickle basin]

Rusty Lake Hotel... 2!!!!

We have five more animal themed guests to kill!

[azure bay]

nah, only Laura

again

[fickle basin]

It's just a boss battle where it's Laura dressed as every previous Hotel Guest

Laura in the deer mask channeling Albert

[azure bay]

or potentially revive the old ones. Mr. Owl was saying something like that

[fickle basin]

"I call upon my Grandfather's gh- actually that's a terrible idea here just hurry Dale"

[remote remnant]

idk laura dying twice is kinda lame

she dies, gets revived, dies & gets revived again

[fickle basin]

Makes it sound like an action movie

"RUSTY LAKE HOTEL: LAURA DIES TWICE"

[azure bay]

that's what we have. Hotel 2 is 1972, Seasons is minimum 1981 and Laura's dead

[fickle basin]

(Wait is there a Rusty Lake Hotel 2? I was making jokes)

[azure bay]

although not sure why to revive her. Caroline was fine participating as a soul

[azure bay]

eventually. And it will be named differently

[fickle basin]

Ah.

[azure bay]

the big finally every other game teases

[fickle basin]

I would like to see Harvey get to live his own life, though. I know I just wrote a whole thing where he grieves Laura and does The Exact Opposite but I like to think Harvey gets the ability to become humanoid again and takes up painting.

[remote remnant]

yeah & thats lame

but itiswhatitis i guess

[fickle basin]

Something something arles reference

[azure bay]

he chose New Game+ siding with Owl's faction instead

[fickle basin]

Harvey you CAN do other things. I promise.

Instead he bulldozes right back into what he was doing before Laura

[honest rain]

In The Mr Rabbit Magic Show (puzzle 18), Mr Rabbit shapeshifts into the white rabbit, ||David Elliander||, the corrupted shadow and others; are those his other selves (preincarnations)?

[prisma forum]

yes i believe so

[rancid slate]

Yeah, implied in Paradise and confirmed in Paradox

[floral eagle]

I believe that Harvey is Dale Vandermeer after he got the golden cube, since in the book inside the cave, the golden cube says: "not only can you change the past, but also the future." And he received this gold cube after the cave and climb to (TW:Spoiler alert) || the hotel, and it was suggested in one of the games, also in the secret ending in cube escape paradox part 2: the bat was in the elevator|| so i think that the golden cube transformed him into Harvey and had to change name because he will be seen in future by himself and to cut out the suspicion(for us and for Dale) he had to acept this form, and also it would solve the timeline issue for Cube escape seasons, meaning that Harvey wasn't originally here, so after Dale transformed he was able to save Laura from her Death...

[azure bay]

That's quite a leap in logic to assume that Dale will be turned of all people into Harvey. Golden cube may change the future and even turn Dale into something but why Harvey?

The only evidence we have says he may become A Mr. Deer.

[floral eagle]

The problem with it, is that there was already Mr.Deer... and assuming that reincarnation is only possible after 10 sacrifices... it's impossible for mr.deer return, remember in the ending of Rusty lake hotel ||he prisioned the souls in somekind of container|| and also in Cube Escape Birthday ||there is a secret were Harvey was in his human form, and did all the killing of the animals in the Hotel.||

[azure bay]

Reincarnation is possible whenever (depending on what needs to reincarnate into what). The devs said that samsara just works. It's just that William was a hungry ghost, literally a ghost temporarily unable to reincarnate, thus the sacrifices

Then I don't see how it's relevant for Dale potentially becoming Harvey but it wasn't human form in Bday. If we are nitpicky, it's asura.

But most importantly, there's no official rule that says that there must be only 1 Mr. Deer. Again, samsara works, you may reincarnate as anything imaginable in this universe. Mr. Deer is not a unique deity, it's more like a species.

[twilit mortar]

hi sorry this is kinda late but in white door when bob goes to the lost souls club, we see a human with Dale’s suit and smoking a cigar (like dale always does) with a deer head

[azure bay]

VanderDeer is also in Paradox

The Lost Souls proves that he's not a figment of Dale's imagination

[twilit mortar]

i mean there’s a million different possibilities knowing the rusty lake universe

[azure bay]

possibilities about what exactly?

[twilit mortar]

like who dale will be, who harvey will be

just in general about the game

it’s one of the things i love about it

[azure bay]

it's not very productive for theory-crafting. Besides, evidence tends to more or less reliably shrink possibilities

VanderDeer in TWD and Paradox separately could be explained away by hallucinations

[twilit mortar]

oh i’m sorry

[azure bay]

but combined it's implausible

[azure bay]

it's ok, relax

[honest rain]

Why was there needed for there to be > 10 family members in Roots, if 10 sacrifices were needed (I can't remember if Ida the fortune-teller was affected or not)?

[twilit mortar]

she was her eye got taken during albert’s voodoo part

[azure bay]

10 family members, 10 sacrifices, 1 rebirth. Everything is correct

[honest rain]

So now Laura has Ida and Samuel's eyes, the teeth of grandma, the foot of Leonard, the brain of Albert, the tears of Emma, etc. That makes Laura Vanderboom herself a homunculus (literally, the golem of flesh). So Harvey's role is... to watch over Laura?

[vague imp]

I think his general role is to help Mr. Owl, but Rose asks him to watch over Laura as she grows up and that dovetails into Mr. Owl's endgame somehow

[rancid slate]

I dont think Laura has any attributes of the 10 sacrifices
What really matters is that she is the reborn mind of William, the guy that managed to recreate the Elixir

But yeah, watching Laura is one of Harvey's tasks

Considering the post-game content, probably given by Mr. Owl too

The RL Station is set around the time she was born

So Id assume the preparations for the Day of the Lake were getting more serious when Laura got born

Either Mr. Owl was already expecting that or Mr. Crow couldve told him

They want her memories of William's Elixir to use in the Golden Cube, the Elixir for Dale and Laura

So far, nothing about the other Roots members actually matters for Laura's importance

(In Laura)

Rose's side is more related to Laura's death

Something that seemed to need to happen so Owl could Dale involved too

But after that, Rose's blossom doesn't seem to be part of Owl's plan

Harvey's participation is quite random

In Seasons, he's killed and then his death is prevented

In Harvey's Box, you could interpretate he was one who saved Laura in The Lake

At The Mill, Laura attacking him can be understood in different ways

It's only at Hotel that Harvey gets to actually be someone important, working for Owl

Then at Roots, apparently connected to the Vanderboom family

And nothing much until Underground Blossom. Harvey may have another role if Laura's life about our own future implies there's more to Harvey in the story

Overall, Harvey's always only guiding or being a companion, never having his own goal. So I'd like to know what he actually wants

[honest rain]

Since Harvey likes birdseed and lays black eggs, maybe what he wants is a simple life?

[golden lotus]

👋

[azure bay]

Nah, she wouldn't be blond in that case. Frank sacrificed his brown hair

[glass wharf]

Actually now that I think about it- Why in The Lake is Laura blonde? We have no proof (yet, I may be wrong) that William was Blonde, and Rose was a damn redhead.

Hell, only Emma is blonde if my memory serves

[tidal terrace]

Actually, there is a reason

Darker hair is usually dominant, while lighter hair is recessive, meaning you generally need two copies of the "blond" gene version to have blond hair.

So, genetically it works

Especially if the same DNA was used to rebirth the same person

you would have two copies of the same "recessive" material

[rancid slate]

Assuming you are referring to Emma's dna, then that would mean Laura also got the dna of all the other 9 sacrifices, which have mostly dark tones of hair

[tidal terrace]

Okay, to be clear

I'm gonna draw a punette square.

So 9 people

I'll need to figure out if they could be dominate or resessive.

Here is the family tre

tree

the H is just a stand in for hair color

This is just a random chart I found online but,

And the symbols above the "family" branch, are for genetics only

(Unless I am mistaken, I did this quickly)

Yeah

I got the parent wrong

let me fix it

[azure bay]

Could you please explain the symbols?

[tidal terrace]

Oh, I had

It means family tree segment

[azure bay]

oh sorry

[tidal terrace]

Like how Rose is child of Ida and Albert

[azure bay]

I guess I am tired, sorry

[tidal terrace]

No worries

So, the family tree hair, while unlikely. Could occur

It depends how the genetics actually play out

[glass wharf]

So in summary, genetics are being genetics and also gambling

(I do apologize if that is an oversimplification, I have a headache and am not devoting brainpower to better understanding rn)

[azure bay]

still fitting to our post-ironic world

I do overthinking with timelines

[tidal terrace]

No, you're 110% correct

[rancid slate]

What I find interesting about this is that the silhouette is at the attic and not the basement

I thought the ||secret Hand|| from the demo could be from the silhouette but now that it is very far from the floor, it may be unlikely

I guess it already was, considering Aldous's bedroom was already at the 2nd floor

[brisk ferry]

Who do you think you play as in Servant of The Lake?

[rancid slate]

A new ~major character after 6 years (Sarah being in 2020)

[azure bay]

Or Harvey again ||god please no||

[autumn ridge]

Why Vandermeers and Vanderbooms share the same prefix?

I never knew

[rancid slate]

Vander (van der) just means "From the" in dutch

Meer = Lake
Boom = Tree

In real life, the surnames would rather be "van der Boom", with spaces

[autumn ridge]

Oh

[autumn ridge]

OHHHHH

[rancid slate]

(But there are also cases of no spaces)

[autumn ridge]

Hmm

Make more sense now

...

But why... Dale from the lake...

[rancid slate]

Eiland being Island
And
Reiziger being Traveller (Ida Reiziger)

[autumn ridge]

[autumn ridge]

Hnm

I need to replay roots

Along with all the saga

[rancid slate]

So far no idea, but considering most of the Vanderboom family isn't directly from a Tree, I don't think it's that important

[autumn ridge]

But why only Dale had to experience the CE:Birthday events?

[rancid slate]

I believe that wasn't planned by Owl

[autumn ridge]

The more I think, the more I understand that idk nothingggg

[rancid slate]

It seems like only Mr. Rabbit had a reason to do that

Owl wouldn't know of Dale until the 60-70s

[autumn ridge]

How many RL games we need to figure out all the lore? lol

[rancid slate]

All of them /j

[autumn ridge]

How many more*
lmao

[vague imp]

At least three is my guess

[rancid slate]

I think the story will keep going with Albert's new plot in TPW

And other possible new stories in the future

[autumn ridge]

And not to mention that underground blossom was planned before CE:TheCave

[autumn ridge]

Probably*

I only saw the Easter egg recently

[rancid slate]

If you mean the last achievement, the assets were only added when Collection released in 2020

[autumn ridge]

Oh

[rancid slate]

The original version didn't had it (It was an empty file, I think)

For a contest

[autumn ridge]

And what about the Laura with the camera in Seasons?

[rancid slate]

Same

[autumn ridge]

Des

[rancid slate]

• TWD Bob in Case 23 and other minor changes

[vague imp]

There's Servant, at least one Albert/Rose game, and at least one more Laura/Dale game after paradox I would guess, probably a Mr. Owl game at some point as well

[rancid slate]

They added Dale's bday date in Birthday and also changed 1889 to 1894 in Harvey's Box (Both so the player can get all achievements without needing Hotel and Roots)

[autumn ridge]

A Mr.Rabbit game too... Wait...

[rancid slate]

Hopefully someday fr this time 💔

[autumn ridge]

Hmm

[rancid slate]

Mammoth game

https://tenor.com/view/cube-escape-20000-bc-rusty-lake-mammoth-gif-5573555038641509308

[autumn ridge]

He forget about the egg game

[sullen fable]

I’ve heard a little about the mammoth . Someone said Rusty Lake has the power to draw animals, such as mammoths, to the lake and then “consume” them to absorb their memories. .
However, this process isn’t very efficient. Over time, the lake eventually gains the ability to make people immortal , which drives the Vanderboom family and Paradise to develop the elixir for eternal life.
That actually makes sense. That’s probably how the Rusty Lake story unfolds.

[sullen fable]

But I have indeed forgotten the post in which I read the theory, lol

[autumn ridge]

What is the timepieces? And the 10 sacrifices in roots?

[rancid slate]

In Roots, the Timepieces are just "keys" to open the gates

While the sacrifices seem to be needed in order to reeincarnate via the Tree/Roots

The only rule seems to be that each one should be from a different person

But they could also know exactly what organs/bodyparts were needed already by 1860, since there are notes/drawings behind the paintings

Sacrifices are also compared to Substances in the end of the game, which could mean they are not just for specifically reeincarnation but the balance of a corrupted soul and/or enlightenment

(Rebirth)

Even tho the other 9 aren't from William, we also have Mr. Rabbit searching for The Gun as a substance he needs

The Gun only appearing in Ms. Pheasant's room

[rancid slate]

Hopefully SotL will expand on them too

UB kinda did implies it either protects a person (acc to Rose) or possibly brings them to someone (?)

It's still not clear imo

[autumn ridge]

?

Hm

[autumn ridge]

Ok

[rancid slate]

Mr. Rabbit mentions it on the letter he leaves after taking the gun

[autumn ridge]

My doubt was that the sacrifices doesn't need to be deaths

[autumn ridge]

Oh

This in RL Hotel?

[rancid slate]

Birthday

[autumn ridge]

Oh

[rancid slate]

Yeah, maybe William just didnt care if they died or not

[autumn ridge]

Make sense

In which games we control the William's corrupted soul

[rancid slate]

Roots and Samsara Room

[autumn ridge]

Hmm

I need to replay a lot of the games

Maybe every replay I'll understand a little bit more of the lore

[rancid slate]

Good part of the lore is less in the gameplay and more in whole plot as a whole

[autumn ridge]

?

[rancid slate]

Things that you may overlook while thinking on how to solve the puzzles

[autumn ridge]

You are saying that the birthday cake puzzle was for NOTHING?!?!?!? 😭😭😭😭😭

[autumn ridge]

Ah, yeah, really

[autumn ridge]

Only joking

[rancid slate]

[autumn ridge]

[rancid slate]

Since The Lake is timeless and probably connects different timelines, how the Elevator only goes to the same Hotel and timeline? Does it lead to your "timeline" or is it a specific timeline? If the second option, that could mean there are other elevators or gateways in the Lake that leads to the other timelines. The cubes are kinda it, yes, but the Elevator is something more physical

I also wonder if a character from a confirmed alternate could travel to another. Not just a version of someone from the past of future, but possibly even a version of someone that same moment in time. Like 2 Mr. Crows that are both from 1972, but from different timelines

.
At the moment, I think only Paradox heavily implies the existence of different timelines, but that could all be inside Dale's mind

Events in Seasons, The Lake, TPW and UB could be all still the same timeline, like some retroactive changes to the past, as three of the games refer to only "past" and "future", not alt timelines. But UB's description basically "confirms" it is one of Laura's timelines

I would like to more in-game "confirmations" tho

[vivid bridge]

what timelines?

[rancid slate]

Quick example

Unless the elevator is always the same but the outside changes for you depending if you change something or not

If I remember it right, the only character we have seen going to the Lake and coming back was Owl twice (Cave/Paradise)

So Im gonna assume this part of the Lake for sure always leads to the same place

And probably same timeline

We also know that the cubes contain their own timelines, probably both sepparately and connectively

Like in Seasons

So the question is if they only exist inside the cubes or there's an alternate way of going to them (Like the Elevator)

TPW kinda suggests they only exist in the cubes

Since Albert says they had to Cube Escape

But, assuming Future Chapter 1 wasnt a cube at the start

Then the timelines dont exist only in cubes

So that would also mean The Lake connects all realities both physically (Elevator) and uhhh cubically

And, for Future Rose to leave

That would also mean..

A cube can exist inside The Lake without being thrown inside the waters, like in The Mill

Same for Past Rose too

Both the cubes were inside the Devices

That sorta explains how they got Dale's cubes..

They were always there

Maybe there's a difference between a cube outside The Lake (Like the cubes extracted in The Mill and Hotel)

And cubes inside The Lake (Bday, Theatre, TPW)

Maybe they are just more powerful? Since Owl calls them fresh?

He doesnt call them fresh because they are new memories. Laura died almost a year ago in the moment. It's rather because they just have been extracted

[rancid slate]

Although, The Past cube from TPW was in fact extracted

[rancid slate]

I think these are all the cubes

Seasons might just be "Existence" but I put it as unknown in case we revisit it

[rancid slate]

Rusty Lake Escape

[azure bay]

I assume it's more like this

at least another possibility

[rancid slate]

So like this?

[azure bay]

yeah but the idea is that different timelines connect to the same lake. If you go there from a certain timeline you'll naturally go back right there

[autumn ridge]

Did someone here saw these series?

[rancid slate]

Yes

[remote remnant]

yeah

[autumn ridge]

Does it resume well the story?

[autumn ridge]

.

[rancid slate]

I wont say "resume" but the videos rather go through possible different meanings and interpretations of puzzles/gameplay, characters and story

[autumn ridge]

Wow

Each video is an interpretation?

Interesting

[rancid slate]

Each covers some of the games

In release order

[autumn ridge]

Hmm

They're good videos, right?

[rancid slate]

I don't remember them fully, but they aren't bad, that's for sure

[autumn ridge]

Awesome :D

[slate pawn]

I did

[fossil blaze]

Watching right now

[abstract breach]

super informative i'd say

it is 18 hours and a half long tho, do manage ur time when watching that

[fossil blaze]

I tried, its a lot

[remote remnant]

I watched it over the course of a little over a week

very enjoyable series but it's a bit hard to keep track of every detail

[abstract breach]

totally, i did not understand one bit of the explanations even after watching, but still fun to watch

so i'd still recommend to watch it if u have the time

[remote remnant]

my only gripe with the series is the overcomplication of the white door's story & ending which I thought were pretty straightforward, but overall it's a nice watch

[azure bay]

can you please elaborate? I don't remember TWD part well

[crimson abyss]

Hi guys, do you know if there’s anywhere a clean and comprehensive timeline of the story that’s updated only with fairly well-corroborated theories? There is one on https://rusty-lake.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline but it seems to me that it doesn’t really take much account of Underground Blossom, and on a smaller scale Mr. Rabbit Magic Show and Untold The Lab.

[rancid slate]

There is the image in the bottom of the page

[autumn ridge]

There is one most updated timeline

But idk if it covers UB

[rancid slate]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/cube-escape/images/4/43/Timeline_2023.png/revision/latest?cb=20231025150250

It does not include MRMS and Untold, but MRMS isnt that canon. At most the Office part takes place in 2025 and the acts somewhere during 1796-1893

Untold - The Lab has not much evidences to when jt takes place, but considering Albert is inside a jail in the Research Facility/UB Lab Station, Id say Untold Lab is before UB Lab

And if we also consider the Untold teasers

Id put them either before or after the Untold campaign

Albert is free in the campaign, while inside an observation room in the teasers

[autumn ridge]

Even Untold???? Omg

[rancid slate]

*does not

My bad

[autumn ridge]

Oh

[rancid slate]

If you believe the Mr. Rabbit achievement in Paradise can be canon, the MRMS acts could be as well

[autumn ridge]

It's possible to "play" Untold digitally?

[rancid slate]

Via calls, yeah

[autumn ridge]

Oh yeah

Interesting

[azure bay]

I will update this image when SotL is out

RLU is some time after UB The Lab

It will feature MRMS but it probably shouldn't the game is really more meta than canon

Even the show part doesn't tell any story

[daring cloud]

why do i have a feeling that SOTL will be like Hotel? it has the exact same premise

[rancid slate]

Im sure that we wont kill the brothers

[rich moon]

I think they already did that to themselves

[slender herald]

You know im curious

WHERE is Rusty Lake? Based on the Vanderboom and Vandermeer names, I think it's somewhere where people speak Dutch

Like maybe the Netherlands?

[vague imp]

I think it's meant to be ambiguous, like it could be anywhere, but I always thought it was very New England coded

[slender herald]

True, and I dont blame you on the new England part, some of the fashion the Vanderbooms show does feel very nde England

Maybe it's somewhere between England and the netherlands

I was mainly trying to figure out the location in order to properly figure out how my Spanish oc would be accommodated in Rusty Lake

[rancid slate]

Id say its own/new country

[daring cloud]

Who is "D" (the person signing off the flyers in Paradox)? Is it Dale?

[patent lion]

I think it's Dale

[daring cloud]

Did Dale's dad have some connections with Rusty Lake? Why did he get a letter from Harvey and how did Mr. Rabbit pick Dale specifically?

[rancid slate]

Unknown

Harvey's letter could be not real just like Mr. Owl's

And for Mr. Rabbit, he may not have picked Dale, but what's inside his house

[daring cloud]

Couldn't he just have robbed them instead of shooting them then?

And if Mr. Rabbit realised Dale didn't die why didn't he try to "finish the job?"

[rancid slate]

Mr. Rabbit is corrupted, so I guess he's just being hostile as the other csouls are

Even tho Dale lives, he does get hurt (blood in our vision) and blacks out for a while (the "What happened?" black screen)

So maybe Dale fell on the ground and looked like he died

[daring cloud]

There is a whole newspaper story on it though so Mr. Rabbit could hear about it. (Assuming we don't change timelines so Mr. Rabbit never gets shot by the grandpa)

[rancid slate]

We dont know what happened to him after that

He probably doesnt care, as long as he gets the subtance

[daring cloud]

Huh, alright... Another question: How does Nicholas know about enlightenment without Caroline's research? It is never said that Nicholas found Caroline's research so how does he know? Or is he just some crazy guy sacrificing his kids to the lake?

[rancid slate]

Caroline was searching for the Elixir

They probably know enlightenment and other things from their cult

Which may be older than we think

[rancid slate]

(The Elixir is not the only way of enlightenment)

[daring cloud]

Hm, okay... But why does Nicholas decide to sacrifice David specifically? Why not Elizabeth or Gerard?

[rancid slate]

Apparently, it had to be the Firstborn

[daring cloud]

Oh, right

[rancid slate]

Why? Idk lol

I think that's the plague name too

But that would kinda imply they had the other 9 plagues before Caroline sent Jakob in a boat all those years ago

Paradise is a bit messy with the plague logic

[daring cloud]

Wouldn't they just have had the Water turns to Blood plauge? They need to solve 1 plauge before another arises, no?

They would've had it for a good while though so I wonder how nobody died of dehydration.

[rancid slate]

When they sacrifice Caroline, Elizabeth and David are already grown up

[daring cloud]

So... They try to sacrifice David, Caroline sends him away on a boat, They sacrifice Caroline, Nicholas sends David a letter saying his mother died to lure him back only ~1 year after he was sent away?

[rancid slate]

Jakob says that the family photo was 15 years ago

[daring cloud]

So he was gone for ~15 years?

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[daring cloud]

And let's say they sacrificed Caroline right after David was sent away and the plauges started right after Caroline was sacrificed, that is ~14.5 years of Water turning to blood.

[rancid slate]

That would be the case, yes

[rancid slate]

But we have this, so Caroline probably only gets sacrificed a little before the game starts

[daring cloud]

So they sacrifice Caroline about ~14 years after David was sent away?

The timing is confusing

[rancid slate]

Yes

Some people think she researched the Elixir during this time

It makes sense

We know now that the brothers took atleast 20 years, so it kinda matches up

[daring cloud]

Oh yeah

In the cave what does David mean by "The full elixir"?

[rancid slate]

Possibly the normal one

He's comparing it to the dog poo Elixir which he calls abstract

Extract? Something like that

[rancid slate]

Considering the Golden Cube is made of Laura/William's memories, which would make sense for it contain the same Elixir as before

[rancid slate]

So he wouldn't be saying there's a better Elixir, but instead that the dog's one is worse

[daring cloud]

Ah, alright

Tysm!

[autumn ridge]

Who knows

Maybe it's like seasons

[autumn ridge]

Why is a gun the substance of his past life?

[rancid slate]

Maybe not exactly his

But he needs it

William needed the sacrifices and at the end the phrase "Balance the Substance of your past lives" appears, so it could be similar

Since it's on singular, it could only be referring to his Heart

But he still needs to balance it with the other sacrifices

So David could be balancing his Subtance with other items, including the Gun if the Gun is not his Substance

[rancid slate]

Killing William then reviving him so he can die and be reborn and kill herself then live again to die and live again

[daring cloud]

So if I get the timeline right: C23 Dale goes down in the elevator to the forest of the lake then enters that white cube, Aldous creates the gold cube and hands it to Dale which Dale then goes up in the elevator where Birthday and Theater take place. Then the events of Paradox happen.

[rich moon]

I think it's Paradox first then Birthday and Theater due to the secret ending of chapter 2 in Paradox and the ending in cave where the elevator goes up.

[daring cloud]

Oh yeah, true...

But what happens after paradox? Like does Dale ever break the loop?

[rich moon]

I'm not sure since everyone saying that it will continue in another game set after the hotel ending with the elevator going up in preparation for the day of the lake. This is what I'm assuming ig

[daring cloud]

I forgot about the day of the lake tbh

ty!

[autumn ridge]

Wow

@_@

[daring cloud]

<@&358613639554400258>

[grizzled bluff]

Thank you for the ping!

[untold stump]

thanks !

[azure bay]

Yes and possibly in both ways. One Dale breaks the loop so he takes the golden cube and goes through Bday and Theatre, another Dale breaks it more for Laura by sacrificing herself so she would take the elevator after his other-self

[daring cloud]

Paradox is after the golden cube, no?

[azure bay]

Paradox is Dale's mind palace while he's connected to the golden cube machine with that bulky VR

It's not a classic memory like Bday, Theatre and Seasons

[azure bay]

.

[daring cloud]

Ohhh

I never thought that paradox was in that headset.

So it was like Mr crow/ Mr owls way to test him and see if he is suitable as a successor for the lake without any actual damage.

[azure bay]

It looks more like preparation

[daring cloud]

Huh, That changes my perspective on a lot…

[azure bay]

Not sure what Dale learns from ch1 themed after Case 23 but ch2 is basically Dale's therapy. He literally clears his mind, faces a trauma from his past to figure out how to proceed in the future and in the end he literally faces his inner demons in a form of a corrupted soul.

However, I can probably see a test part. To learn how to escape the room and continue the loop, to learn how the loop works and that's how you save Laura, to learn how to escape the loop altogether

[sacred arrow]

Wait- I might be stupid but is James (rusty lake root) Mr. Deer?

[azure bay]

nope

[rancid slate]

Asset reuse

[azure bay]

asset reuse

[sacred arrow]

tought I was onto something

nvm

ill go back to my cave

[azure bay]

check out Rusty Lake Paradise

[rancid slate]

William, Harvey, Samuel and others also reuse it with a few color variations

[azure bay]

there you'll be onto somwthing

[sacred arrow]

Crazy how Mr.Deer stole James´s fit

from his dead body

[rancid slate]

Mary sold it for money

[azure bay]

I cannot think read

[slender herald]

Honestly James wore it better

[sacred arrow]

ong tho

[sullen fable]

I have a question about whether the real killer at Dale's birthday party might actually be another stranger (possibly a normal human) instead of Mr. Rabbit , since I later learned that Mr. Owl was the one who changed Dale's memories.

[azure bay]

Mr. Rabbit came for the pistol from his past life at the Hotel. I think he came there on his own and Mr. Owl had nothing to do with that

[sullen fable]

When we saw Mr. Rabbit in Cube Escape, we might have only been seeing the events from the perspective of Dale's altered memory.

[azure bay]

I don't think anyone would alter memories to depict credible hidden motivations of its participants

it seems unnecessary

[sullen fable]

I guess this theory might come from Paradox, because Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow were the ones who changed his memory.

[sullen fable]

I agree

[azure bay]

Ah yeah, Paradox makes me think Mr. Rabbit was actually real. Yeah, they have control over the environment but they needed to address Dale's real trauma

the purpose of their enlightenment mental health program

[sullen fable]

Honestly, Paradox is the hardest one for me, both in puzzles and story. The Cave comes second, lol

[azure bay]

yeah, Paradox is quite complex but that's its beauty when you finally get it

[honest rain]

When ||old|| Laura says "One of us will die, the other will be enlightened" what if it it meant that Dale might die (in the next game) and Laura will be enlightened, because in Underground Blossom ||Laura dissolves into sakura blossoms||

[azure bay]

Laura's dead in 1981

in Seasons

so I think the blossom tornado took place during its ending

and during the day of the lake the elixir will likely kill her

(unless we as Dale do something probably)

[daring cloud]

well we don’t know what the day of the lake even involves since we havnt had one since paradise

[azure bay]

we have a ton of other foreshadowing

[azure bay]

Dale is teased to become a deva in Theatre.

Caroline's book adapted for Paradox speaks again of the day of the lake and that 1 will die, the other will be enlightened

Laura later says the same thing implying some future beyond Paradox

The golden cube in The Cave is made the same way Caroline's elixir was made in Pradise. It's also marked with the elixir insignia.

Seasons, 9 years later. Laura is dead

[daring cloud]

Jeez I didn’t notice any of them… I need to keep an eye out.

[azure bay]

<@&358613639554400258>

[untold stump]

thanks for the ping !

[gloomy spruce]

maybe the Lake is a message, mocking religious rituals & highlighting the absurdity of different, abnormal cultural practices. Yet the games use the concept of Samsara. ironic (any1 agree?)

maybe Samsara was used to enhance the absurdity of rituals & how they ultimately destroy lives (family's rituals leading to Laura's instability & uncertainty & her visions, pushing her to her death)

(idk if this counts as theorizing, i got distracted from studying & got here)

[gloomy spruce]

also funny logic but like what if William decided to possess Albert to collect the rest of the sacrifices & that's why Albert is the way he is?

[opal sun]

I have so many questions. First off can I get a quick summary of each games lore I watched the videos I barely understand and the timeline is crazy

Did Dale vandemir become a detective cuz of the birthday massacre? Why do the people want enlightenment? Is the lake self aware or is it a force of nature? Are you able to leave once you enter the lake or do you become one with the lake? What happened to dale

[gloomy spruce]

Lol relatable. I watched a bunch of explanation vids & reddit rants abt the timeline. I think this'll help u understand the timeline better: https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/comments/9q7rp5/the_full_story_of_rusty_lake_all_of_the_spoilers/?captcha=1

[gloomy spruce]

The Dale thing could be a possibility. It was Mr. Rabbit's corrupted soul that attacked his family from what I understood, & idt Dale would've fully understood what actually happened there when he was a kid, so perhaps he became a detective in hope to get closure by maybe stumbling upon a case relating to whatever happened that day.

Characters want enlightenment for the same reason ppl wanna live forever

Soem characters seem to be quite... greedy imo

& there are some characters that seem like they have ulterior motives (Mr. Crow mainly, I'll get into that l8r)

The lake, well, if its a force of nature it would be self aware. Either way, its established that the lake isnt your usual lake.
From what we've seen throughout the games, we COULD leave, but it seems as though the lake alters the self (throwback to "a place to empty the mind"). Most of the characters related to the lake had some sort of purpose to fulfill. Their motives to do anything they did is still unclear, but what if the lake influenced their behavior. The lake appears to be a supernatural force that feeds off of cubes (idk if that makes sense but this is how it played out in my head), so in a way it could be assumed that the lake controls one's actions as a means to provide for itself to survive?

So far what we've seen happen to Dale is that he & Laura get chosen & one of them becomes the next ruler of the lake & the other doesnt (i.e., one becomes enlightened, it works like the elixir), and judging by the circumstances, Dale would be the one to ascend & take Mr. Owl's place

[opal sun]

Nobody wants to live forever

[opal sun]

Wait does the lake corrupt the mind

[open grove]

Some people do wanna live forever. Maybe it be for power, to remember, or to continue their work like how what Mr. Crow and William were doing iirc

[gloomy spruce]

No, that's my assumption based on given info (sorry bad phrasing)

[opal sun]

I'm assuming it too

[gloomy spruce]

Yeahh

[opal sun]

Anyway why does Caroline's death cause the plague

Is she important to the lake 🤔

[gloomy spruce]

Some ppl have reasons living forever will benefit them

[open grove]

I think the lake could control one's actions or at least give someone purpose to give the cubes to the lake maybe??

[opal sun]

How did the lake come to be or did the lake just exist

[gloomy spruce]

She was sacrificed & the family asked for enlightenment, instead the lake cursed them with 10 plagues

[opal sun]

Ik but why was thw lake mad

[gloomy spruce]

Yeahh that's what I was thinking. Cuz in the case of Albert, he didnt seem to have a big enough motive to hurt his family, yet he did

[opal sun]

Also these black memories when he lowered then into the lake to cure the plague was he making the enlightenment thing and his death completed it

[opal sun]

Yk now that I think about it the lake does seem to have that power. That's kinda creepy you think the lake is a safe place to empty the mind but it can control u

[gloomy spruce]

The way i understood it, the lake wanted Jakob, who was abt to be sacrificed, but Caroline begged Nicholas to sacrifice her instead

[open grove]

<@&358613639554400258> scam thingy

[patent lion]

Thank you for the ping!

[open grove]

No problem!!

[gloomy spruce]

He was completing the ritual, yes. He stopped the 10 plagues one by one, & then finally brought enlightenment by sacrificing himself & becoming Mr. Owl & his family become humanoid animals respectively

[opal sun]

Plait the husband sacrificed her?? I thought it was the kids

And since mister owl became a hybrid his family became hybrids too. Does that mean they were also enlightened

[gloomy spruce]

Yeah it was the husband who was mainly a part of the sacrifices. I dont get what the deal with the other kids are really (lwk I just dont like the Eilander family except Elizabeth & Caroline)

[opal sun]

Bro David is so weirdds

The frog in the pants bro

[gloomy spruce]

Yes as enlightenment means either immortality or living an unnaturally long life

[gloomy spruce]

Yeahh

[opal sun]

So wait did the family die or were they just enlightened and that's why he killed them in the hotel right

[gloomy spruce]

The family got enlightened, Mr. Owl wanted revenge cuz they were trash and so he killed them

[gloomy spruce]

about the Mr. Crow thing. The characters seem to have a detached morality after enlightenment. Especially Mr. Crow as he has just been watching his family suffer to reincarnate his brother- who also in the end suicides, comes back to life, & allegedly doesnt end up taking Mr. Owl's position & see some detective beat the reincarnated WIlliam to it?

to add onto the Lake & what it really is, it would be incredibly funny if the lake just got fed up of humans asking for enlightenment & is doing this for fun & decided to do so with Harvey. Like how humans pray to God for blessings. But considering that, maybe it's an embodiment, or the creators' personal interpretation of God? This also supports my very first point about how this potentially mocks religious rituals & highlights the absurdity of them

[azure bay]

@gloomy spruce @opal sun Looking into evidence and precedents, Jakob sacrificing himself and becoming enlightened doesn't really make sense.

What actually happened, he was sacrificed so the family gets enlightenment. Jabob was meant to stay dead but Caroline duped the system, made her elixir in the purgatory and sacrificed herself so he enlightens too and preserves his memory and identity

[rancid slate]

• each of the 10 cubes we gather has an ingredient which are also shown in her book in the notes about the Elixir

[azure bay]

This one is debatable too. The plagues are too deeply integrated into their culture to be a punishment for a wrong sacrifice. They are on the well, they are in Caroline's book, they are prophesized. David knows them well enough to play favorites,

Also the prophecy contradicts the punishment theory on its own. The ritual is that you kill the right person on the right day. The day of the lake. The day of the lake is prophesized to take place after the darkness plague. The darkness plague likely comes after all the other plagues.

They are the ritual's condition, not its consequence

[azure bay]

And revenge wasn't Owl's motivation, at least not the primary one.

He needed a prophecy cube about Dale. Somehow he got it from the guests.

[rancid slate]

And also, Nicholas doesn't tell Jakob in the letter that they killed Caroline, so he could also be "lying" about paradise "suffering" (or just be a red herring if the player interprets Caroline's death caused the plagues)

[azure bay]

he said "Paradise was suffering since she died", not because of

so there's a chance he didn't even lie

[rancid slate]

Yes

[opal sun]

Why did sacrificing Caroline get plagues and David gets them enlightenment? Is it because the lake wanted David and if so why

[opal sun]

Wym detached morality what's that

[azure bay]

the plagues just manifest, they aren't tied to Caroline's death. And David gets enlightened together with his family because Jakob was indeed the right sacrifice

you need the plagues for the ritual

they cannot be caused by a faulty ritual

[opal sun]

Can someone tell me more about William being reincarnated as laura

[azure bay]

I can but what do you want to know?

[opal sun]

What really is the day of the lake can I get more detail on that

[opal sun]

So if the sacrifice didn't start the plagues what did

[azure bay]

I see 2 options.

1. Either they just start due to zodiacs or whatnot

2. Or the lack of memory offerings, since they stop plagues

[azure bay]

So far we have only Paradise. Eventually the finale of Dale's stroy will take place during another day of the lake.

So far we know that it's some kind of holiday when you can get enlightenment and probably become the ruler of the lake

[opal sun]

Ohh ru saying she was keeping the island from having these curses but now that she's gone she cannot stop it

[azure bay]

not necessarily. They needed her memories because she hid the secret of the elixir there.

[opal sun]

Oh wait I read it

[opal sun]

Who did her family?

[azure bay]

yes

[opal sun]

It still doesn't make sense ab how the plagues started

[azure bay]

2 options, Either they just start regularly or the cult didn't give the lake her memories because they wanted to find her elixir there

[rancid slate]

I think it's important to know that the game doesn't properly explain what causes the plagues, so we can only theorize or hope for possible evidences/answers in future games

It would be good if they did, but I feel the plagues may not be present in other/the next Day of the Lake even if Paradise implies the plagues are directly connected to the Day

[azure bay]

there might be a reason why there won't be plagues in Hotel 2

Owl's crew steadily provide memories

[rancid slate]

Preferably, there should be

[azure bay]

It would be weird. They take place all year-long

unless Dale will be stuck in Hotel

[rancid slate]

It could be by 1973

Since Cave is in December

[opal sun]

Hotel 2???

Do yk the games in chronological ordernof the timeline

Idk why it sent like that I sent it as a reply

[azure bay]

that's how we call the foreshadowed finale

it's not out yet

[opal sun]

And what are golden cubes again

[rancid slate]

Nowhere made this image containing them up to Underground Blossom
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/cube-escape/images/4/43/Timeline_2023.png/revision/latest?cb=20231025150250

[opal sun]

If I remember I think William and aldous go underwater to collect memories

[azure bay]

no it were Aldous and Jakob aka Mr. Owl

[opal sun]

Ah

But why were they there

[rancid slate]

Mr. Owl went down to protect Dale that was on his way to the Big White Cube

Aldous's submarine section is to collect the three cubes in order to create a Golden Cube which (we believe that) contains some form of the Elixir, as shown in The Book

[rancid slate]

We only have two so far and they seem different, but both are connected to the Future in their ways

[opal sun]

From what

[opal sun]

Wheres the other one

[rancid slate]

Have you played all games?

[azure bay]

there's some confusion. Maybe we misunderstood something. What did you mean by them getting memories?

[rancid slate]

I believe they are asking "[to protect] from what?"
If so, the Corrupted Souls from the guests in the bottom of The Lake

[opal sun]

All except for the past wifhin

[azure bay]

that explains why you didn't see the other golden cube

TPW is worth playing

my 2nd favorite game

[opal sun]

The missing memories

[opal sun]

I don't have anyone to play wifh

[rancid slate]

We have channels #🔍｜tpw-looking-for-player for it if you are okay with playing with unknown users

[gloomy spruce]

Ohh okay

[gloomy spruce]

So Jakob doesnt exactly sacrifice himself, Caroline's elixir just made it so that he also gets enlightened

[azure bay]

yep

and somehow he wins

becomes the ruler of the lake

[gloomy spruce]

Isnt that a self proclaimed role?

[gloomy spruce]

Ah okay

[gloomy spruce]

From their memory cubes?

[gloomy spruce]

Okay so, take characters like Rose or Laura. They talk quite a bit in the games, enough to understand their intentions, and they dont usually end up doing anything bad. If in case they do they usually hint at a fair reason as to why they're doing that. This opposes certain other characters who dont really speak much or haven't spoken at all. This could be people like Albert or Mr. Crow. It's harder to decipher their intentions. Well, Albert's intentions were quite clear because he was physically present frequently & he has a shorter, easier to interpret storyline. Mr. Crow on the other hand isnt as frequently physically present, nor does he talk much, making is harder to recognize his intentions

[rancid slate]

I think it's more about the fact the characters not talking much is part of the franchise's style

Rose only talks in UB and has some lines in TPW, but never spoke in Roots just like everyone there

Everyone except Mr. Crow

He's the only one to talk in Roots :)

Well, young Rose does too. But her lines are questions and answers, so

[rancid slate]

And so does Albert

I presume Albert will keep talking as much as he did in TPW/UB in his next appearences (unless we play as him?)

• two of major Mr. Crow's appearences are in Mill and Cave, where we play as him so that also explains why he doesn't seem to talk much

Id say he talks as much as he needs in Hotel, Theatre, Roots, Paradox, The White Door and UB

So far, he has a bunch of lines for just the first level he appears in the SotL level. We can expect more in the full game

[rancid slate]

Kind of? Maybe "The Chosen One" is the Ruler or each Ruler chooses the next? We don't really know if "The Ruler of The Lake" is part of the Paradise culture

Seems to only be mentioned by Mr. Owl so far

So maybe he started it

Unless Nicholas was the previous Ruler and it's not really about if the Ruler is alive or not but rather if there's a new one (and that being why Mr. Deer isn't the Ruler)