🤔｜theories

[honest brook]

I don't think they were doing that to convince Dale

[alpine hollow]

so why all that?

[rancid slate]

Its possible that the Lake has already chosen Dale

[alpine hollow]

I can easily believe that

[rancid slate]

So it will be his destiny anyway

His fate

[alpine hollow]

and the alchemists would be the messengers

ok that's cool

really cool

so now we have Dale Shippuden and Albert is out there doing whatever he is doing

and we still don't know what was Mr.Owls plans since the beginning

[rancid slate]

In Paradox, he just says that his time is limited and he needs a sucessor

[alpine hollow]

yes that's why I made the Shippuden joke 🤣

all this because I haven't been updated about the lore, I really wanted to know what Mr.Owl wanted from the lake

it's seems we will know very soon

[honest brook]

What do you mean?

[rancid slate]

Well, closest thing to an Owl's objective would be making Paradise rise again with the Hotel

[alpine hollow]

what if he is continuing with his mother's studies? the Elixir is not "perfect" so he probably is searching for a final piece

[rancid slate]

Jakob really just looks like his father lol

[rancid slate]

Nowhere always says that the full elixir is only brought up in Cave, so its probably not it

Id say Williams has already found it

[azure bay]

under the context of having a weak extract

only a weak extract

[alpine hollow]

and they wanted to resurrect him to find out, right?

[rancid slate]

No

Again, Cave shows that William's memories of the Elixir are still inside Laura's mind

They were most likely extracted in the Mill

[alpine hollow]

Laura's dead, they can't do anything now

[rancid slate]

And are the ones we use in Cave too

[azure bay]

1. they took her memories and successfully created a golden cube

2. she's alive now (somehow)

[alpine hollow]

she turned into a corrupted soul though

[rancid slate]

She is shown uncorrupted in UB secret scene

[azure bay]

not anymore apparently

[honest brook]

We can see that she was alive in the secret scene in Underground Blossom

[alpine hollow]

Underground Blossom is the past right? showing Laura's life

[azure bay]

it shows everything

[rancid slate]

It takes place during many times

[alpine hollow]

I think I missed that secret scene

I remember playing right when the game released

and then there was an update

I don't remember playing that update

[azure bay]

it's worth it but the secret scene was from the start

the post-game content

[alpine hollow]

the suitcase?

[azure bay]

and the cubes

[alpine hollow]

when I arrive home I'll investigate that

[azure bay]

and Cube Escape Collection 100% achievements

[alpine hollow]

I've never fully completed collection

😭

[azure bay]

you can look up the symbols online

[alpine hollow]

no I'm playing the games

I miss them

[honest brook]

It's worth mentioning that Laura's also going to the Hotel for a chance at becoming the next ruler, even though it's hinted that Dale will be the one to succeed

[alpine hollow]

thanks y'all

🦆👍🏼

[alpine hollow]

I'll think about that

[rancid slate]

"One of us will die, the other will be enlightened"
-Future Laura, Paradox Chapter 2

[honest brook]

Yep

[azure bay]

funny to thing that it was likely a hint that Laura will be at the hotel too

[alpine hollow]

that makes things so much more interesting 🤩

[rancid slate]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/357141008875651072/1295035253311930418/125_Sem_Titulo_20241013104700.png?ex=67530e90&is=6751bd10&hm=e2ec153460a9057aff8bfcb333bba44bec324f3d5918b7b9092cd8fdc8a59e57&

My biggest masterpiece

[vivid bridge]

[errant estuary]

an awkward family reunion

[rancid slate]

Has someone ever talked about the different Asuras?

Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow turned into Asura via Elixir

And they are similar

Half man and half animal

The Eilander family seems to be full animal

Which Enlightenmemt was given through sacrifice

If this is an actual thing

Its possible that if Harvey is an Asura, his enlightenment was also via Elixir

Cuz we see he has human skin under his gloves

If the Deva Dale stays the same as the current design, this could still be kinda true..?

Since he also has human hands

And his enlightenment will probably be via the Elixir in the GC too

Now for the Dog

Hes a dog

He dranks the elixir and stays the same

Sooooo

Its possible that it could debunk the Animal -> Asura theory about the animals getting enlightened and becomin humanoids in Paradise

Like Harvey

We also have Young Bird

And Mr. Toad

Which are mostly animals

So if there really is a rule

They either got enlightened through Sacrifice or some kind of similar ritual

[rancid slate]

This could also just mean that Elixir partially mantains your original form

Jakob was human, so Mr. Owl is part human
Same for Aldous
And same for the doooogg

Cuz he was a dog

And stays dog

!!!!

Thats it guys

I solved Rusty Lake Roots why dog doesnt go asura when elixir mystery 2016

100% real

[visual coral]

It could be because Owl's and Crow's elixir was arteficial and Eilanders was "natural" meaning the Lake enlightened them
It is also possible that Asuras in general can shapeshift into humans or/and animals
Like we never saw Mr Toad human form, but it is confirmed by the devs that he was one

So the way elixir works is very unclear and we can only guess
Like Laura used elixir in Seasons but never turned into an Asura at all

[azure bay]

we can't tell that. In Hotel Crow has nothing to tell him apart from the guests

[azure bay]

and that's just false

And both Crow and Owl have feathered hands most of the time when gloveless

[rancid slate]

Most of the time, but not all the time

[azure bay]

that's enough to think that "human hands" are just asset lazyness rather that solid canon

Owl never had them btw

Crow only had them in Case 23 and Hotel intro while reusing that Case 23 sprite

[rancid slate]

Oh yeah, I just forgot to check it

I thought we were able to see a little bit of his skin there

[rancid slate]

HB aswell cuz its the same sprite

And kinda Cave too

[azure bay]

technically no

[rancid slate]

Which changes in UB

[azure bay]

we never see his hands in crow form

[rancid slate]

*Never again

[azure bay]

we never see his hands in complete crow form

[rancid slate]

But funny thing that he keeps the white gloves in Roots elixir level

[azure bay]

I think his image permits that and RL never bothered changing hands mid-scene. I think that a fine compromise

[lunar egret]

Is the events in case 23 also a memory ?

[honest brook]

I'd think they're not

[rancid slate]

They are real

Just as Mill

But like, at this point, all memories are real

Since they can all exist in different realities/timelines

The real question would be "In which reality Case 23 takes place?"

[stoic minnow]

Rather, the question is. These events happen directly to the participant or to someone who looks at them through the cube.

[rancid slate]

Dale does it

[lunar egret]

How do you guys know that they are different realities ?

To my observations they always felt like just memories

That's why they are often weird

[rancid slate]

TPW basically proves it

And if you think about it

Seasons is literally about changing the past

Not changing your memories

[lunar egret]

In which part ?

[rancid slate]

The entire game

It is about using a cube from the past

The most "count-action" in TPW is bringing Past Rose to the Lake with Future Rose

Which also basically says that Past Rose is a real being

Not a product of a memory

In the sense that

Its not just an imagination or something that you cant touch

The things that are inside the cubes are as real as the outside

Both Roses are real

[lunar egret]

Even though

In other cases it doesn't feel that real

[rancid slate]

Paradox also implies different timelines

Multiple Dales stuck in the paradox at the same time

[rancid slate]

Any example?

I can give one

https://tenor.com/view/case-23-door-case-23-door-disappear-cube-escape-case-23-case-23-cube-escape-gif-5562424858324626210

[lunar egret]

Arles

As we see in the memories they are trying to find the cube and escape from there

That places doesn't seems to livible to me

They feel like a projection of reality

[rancid slate]

Id say Arles is literally played inside his paintings

The entire place is based on his paintings

[lunar egret]

Look at van gogh it showes the memory happens in 1888

[rancid slate]

And his black cube is obtained through painting

[lunar egret]

But it sure take place after his death which is 1890

[rancid slate]

He doesnt die in the cube

He basically kills his corrupted soul

Thats why it leaves a white cube

[lunar egret]

The black cube needs to be tied to a bad memory

I beleive it's not really ties to the painting

Mostly it's about that night

The night he argued with his brother and cuts his ear

And litterally bleeds to the morning

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[lunar egret]

The everything around him seems like his painting but I guess that's about how he sees the world

[rancid slate]

The mirror is also a reference to one of his paintings

[lunar egret]

So the events in there does not actually happen it happens to his mind after he dies and turns into a corrupted soul

But why

[rancid slate]

"You're trapped inside your bedroom in Arles. It feels like you're surrounded by art."

[rancid slate]

Not saying Arles does not matter but

Arles does not matter

[lunar egret]

I know but

It is the one of the most pure times we can see a normal memory

When this happens to a normal characther it becomes a whole different thing

[rancid slate]

What about RL Untold?

We also play as not main characters

[lunar egret]

Well I didn't played it yet

I'll play it today or tomorrow

[rancid slate]

You dont need to die to become a cs

And becomin a cs doesnt mean you will go through your memories

[lunar egret]

So how did he became a cs ?

[rancid slate]

I dont think he did

He was normal

He became a cs inside the memory

In Seasons, we play as Laura when she is already corrupted

And we see ourselves corrupted in the mirror

While Van Gogh doesnt

[rancid slate]

After entering the ear and choosing the dark door

[lunar egret]

But you also said the mirror also a reference to his paintings

[rancid slate]

Yeah, he is using the same clothing

[lunar egret]

So he becames a cs in the memory

How did he even get in the memory

[rancid slate]

Well, we have no evidences

Some theorize that he couldve gone to the Hotel

Which I dont think its close to wherever he was lol

It could be a dream or he simply found his cube and entered in it

[lunar egret]

The cube extraction is a hard thing

Anyways

There is also white cube there

Isn't it supposed to represent a good memory

[rancid slate]

In Birthday, we enter a black cube

And the hand gives us the blue cube

And when Mr. Rabbit dies, the cube turns white

So I dont think theres a limit of how many cubes can be inside another or if a cube can be inside itself and if a cube that is not that cube can be inside another cube

Seasons kinda has it too?

We enter the first cube

And we get a cube that leads to the next one

[lunar egret]

Yes cubes can be inside cubes

[lunar egret]

I thought rather than getting in she was using them to get out ?

[rancid slate]

We only get 3 black cubes

The 4th is a blue one, and we use it, it unlocks all the 3 previous cubes

[rancid slate]

I used to believe that too, cuz we get the cubes doing things from each memory

But the blue cube is simply just inside the clock

The first three were inside the black egg, shrimp and I dont remember the tv showing her death

[lunar egret]

That's why I said trying to understand the nature of cubes while looking to laura is really hard

[rancid slate]

Well, it gets inconsistent later on

The Lake and Harvey Box show the cs leaving black cubes

In Case 23, the egg gives a white cube

And in the Mill, you get a fish and a shrimp in the memories

One in the black and one in the white

While in Cave, the white cube shows Laura's trip being good

And even if they despcit her trip and murder, in the book they show the Elixir symbol

[lunar egret]

Is it because cs's really have black cube or is it because they are simply a bad memory ?

[rancid slate]

So I guess a single cube does not contain a single event

But it is a representation of all events of that category

[rancid slate]

Unknown

[lunar egret]

In hotel the cs's also shown with a cube

[rancid slate]

Yes

[lunar egret]

How that works ?

[rancid slate]

It is presumed that their memories have been extracted

Since they eat their meat

It is unknown if the memory extraction is made before or after they cut the bodies

But I presume it is after

Since its probably the reason why they are corrupted

[lunar egret]

Yeah I beleive so too

So Is death really a reason to become a cs ?

As much as we seen caroline and william were exceptions because of elixir

And there is robert hill

He might have shot himself or not

But regardless he got corrupted after that

[rancid slate]

Theres also Dale

But he flickers instead

[rancid slate]

One of the main reasons

[rancid slate]

But Caroline didnt drank the elixir on her death

She was burned alive

[lunar egret]

I beleive there are different forms of elixir

[rancid slate]

There are

But that was not one

She uses the Elixir later with Jakob

And she probably dies for real this time

Since her cs is seen being desintegrated or something

[lunar egret]

Think like when william drank he died even while aldeus didn't drank it yet

I think caroline's rituel was delayed

[rancid slate]

But there was no use of Elixir there

[lunar egret]

Or even if this was not the case 10 black cube did get out of her

[rancid slate]

And the Elixir was not part of the ritual

[lunar egret]

Since black cubes did got out of her she should become corrupted

[rancid slate]

Their intention was to sacrifice Caroline and get enlightened in trade

Not to make Caroline enlightened

[lunar egret]

They did the rituel wrong

[rancid slate]

Not wrong

It was just the wrong person

Jakob dies in the ending

And Caroline uses the 10 black cubes which had the ingredients for the Elixir

[lunar egret]

But they didn't know the whole thing about these rituel

[rancid slate]

Who?

[lunar egret]

That's why Nicolas tried to look through her memories

For elixir

[rancid slate]

They didnt wanted the Elixir

And their ritual worked

They sacrificed Jakob and got enlightened

[lunar egret]

No in the first one

They didn't get enlighened

[honest brook]

It’s because the Lake didn’t want Caroline, it wanted Jakob

[rancid slate]

Cuz it was the wrong person

[lunar egret]

Then why Nicolas needed her memories

[rancid slate]

They didnt

They needed Jakob

[honest brook]

Nicholas said “I need her memories”

[lunar egret]

Then why did Nicolas tried to reach her memories

[rancid slate]

Considering the whole gameplay, probably to remove the plagues

[lunar egret]

"I need her memories, I need to.. find.."

Also her memories contains the parts to elixir

[rancid slate]

https://tenor.com/view/nicholas-eilander-gacha-life-get-real-rusty-lake-cube-escape-gif-11186518956606586775

[rancid slate]

Theres nothing suggesting they really knew it

If they did, they wouldve done it instead of doing the normal fire sacrifice

[honest brook]

I mean, he did have Caroline’s book about the Elixir in the room with him

[rancid slate]

We need a line

Of Nicholas saing

"Jakob, I need the elixir, go get it to me or else I will kill Margareth"

But that wouldnt be enough

Mr. Owl also had Laura next to him in 1969 and apparently didnt done much

[rancid slate]

Mr. Owl also says in Cave that they need the Elixir, but everything suggests it is not for them, but to Laura and Dale

And theres also no reason for Nicholas to want the Elixir

The books says that one dies and the other lives

While the sacrifice is like

One dies and everyone else there lives

[wheat ore]

would be way more fun if everybody died just saying

[dire cobalt]

in case23 why is bob being held at the police station? is he a suspect for killing laura? i just did tbe achievement of his mugshot and realized that lol

[azure bay]

It's a surreal series but it's almost uniformly so, you can't pin the weirdness on "memories" and go on with your day. It's there regardless of you being inside or outside a cube

[azure bay]

he was likely looking for elixir elements she kept there

[azure bay]

the incomplete formula was inside the book and very accessible

also Caroline deliberately hid the last element

[azure bay]

yep, he was suspected

[dire cobalt]

me when i'm just a boy who got involved with eldritch horrors beyond my imagination

[errant estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-hill-rusty-lake-rusty-lake-robert-the-white-door-gif-11123186774273219700

[rancid slate]

Still nothing

[dire cobalt]

omg dumbig i missed shenanigan-ing with you

that is so real

[azure bay]

She hid it. For a good reason

And he was looking for something

and she said not to let them use the cubes

it's obvious

[wheat ore]

get fucking real vibes omg I'm keeping it

[rancid slate]

He still made the best choice

5:1

[azure bay]

and probably lost memories

or had some other disadvantage

[rancid slate]

Do you think they wanted enlightenment and the Lake chose Jakob?

Or the Lake wanted Jakob and in trade, they asked for enlightenment?

[azure bay]

"please take our sacrifice and enlighten us"

[rancid slate]

Who shot first

[azure bay]

Han Solo

[rancid slate]

If Dale is the new chosen one

How is 1972 DotLake a parallel fo 1796 DotLake?

Or 1797, if you may

If the DotLake is not sacrifice

Then Nicholas wasnt outsmarted by Caroline

Cuz both would be two people getting the elixir

The Chosen One and a Lady of the Lake

Jakob and Caroline, Dale and Laura

[azure bay]

who chooses the chosen one?

[rancid slate]

Whoever chooses it, its an one time decision

[rancid slate]

This line makes it look like its them and not the Lake

[azure bay]

DotL is an opportunity for a sacrifice

a special day you can be enlightened on if you do everything right

and Caroline DID play everyone and created a good successor of the cult from her son who was supposed to stay dead

[rancid slate]

Then whos gonna be sacrificed in 1972? The 50/50 from the Elixir doesnt seem like a sacrifice to me

Unless you are Roots and a murder is sacrifice

Or your hair, lol

[azure bay]

I could expect Dale being sacrificed to enlighten the guests and then being saved by Laura's sacrifice.

But RL tend to deviate from older cases

they don't like showing the same things multiple times

a new idea I've just got

Mr. Owl could probably sacrifice himself?

[rancid slate]

They are going to sacrifice Young Bird

Sas music starts playing

Everyone cries

And the tears become a new Lake

[rancid slate]

I just thought the same too

But I wonder what really happens to the chosen one

Or the person that is supposed to die

Like, do they stay dead or do they still keep the cycle and keep having another lives?

Can they become corrupted even if its succesful?

[azure bay]

the universe didn't care that Jakob was reborn with his old memories, the family was still enlightened

so I think they just get reborn

[rancid slate]

Maybe if the sacrifice is a human, your enlightenment is Asura, but if it is an Asura, then you become Deva (literally no reason to all the preparation)

Hope thats not it

[azure bay]

They are advertising Laura vs Dale

[rancid slate]

Cant wait for Lake Fighter

Would be an endless game

You die

And then you are reborn

And then you die again

And you are reborn again

A fight that never ends

Unless you use the special movement that traps the person inside a cube

You will win the battle, in your reality

But the other is gonna create infinity realities where they win against you

So much violence 😔

[lunar egret]

Who we play as in Rusty Lake Untold ?

[azure bay]

"ourselves"

I prefer to call them self-inserts

if I were to speculate, either scientists or more likely guinea pigs

[rancid slate]

We play as Rose clones

[vivid bridge]

glad that they're trapped in a loop for all eternity

[rancid slate]

Lmao

If theres a way to erase a cube

It probably looks like Gravity Falls ending

[lunar egret]

Harvey is able to time travel right ?

[vivid bridge]

maybe

it depends on what parts of Underground Blossom you think are literal

[lunar egret]

Laura would need someone to take care of her when she was little

[vivid bridge]

She might have just gone to foster care

[rancid slate]

Harvey fed her like a bird

[visual coral]

It could have been Harvey if only he can actually change forms from animal to asura and back
I don't think a birb would have handled taking care of a human child
And the government should have issues with a little girl without any parents

[rancid slate]

The game want us to think that Harvey took care of her

So, imo, he does

[vivid bridge]

the game tries to tell us a lot of things that i'm questioning the validity of

[rancid slate]

Bird form or not

[visual coral]

UB is very metaphorical

It wants us to think that the kids see Harvey's asura form

[rancid slate]

Id say UB is 20% metaphorical

[vivid bridge]

that's generous

[rancid slate]

[visual coral]

very

[vivid bridge]

I think ub is 50% metaphorical and 50% utter nonsense

nothing besides the parts at the lake seem to be real

[visual coral]

surrealism

[rancid slate]

70% Laura

30% Rose

[visual coral]

0% Harvey the birb when he should be

[rancid slate]

Hes just there

[visual coral]

But in what form?

Or can he shapeshift

[honest brook]

I think that he just became a parrot with immortality

[rancid slate]

Unknown

We dont know when he became an asura or how many times he died

We know that he died once in 1894

Roots suggests a little that he can shapeshift, but we dont see him as asura before 1891

[visual coral]

And then Owl somehow helped him come back to life in a form of a parrot

[rancid slate]

Its possible that UB Harvey is a future Harvey

Or a Past Harvey idk

Laura does draw bird Harvey in her notebook

And just some pages before, we have the photos with Asura Harvey

[rancid slate]

And this

[visual coral]

Seasons and Harvey's Box seem to be way more literal then UB Both of this games depict Laura and Harvey's life and in both of them Harvey is a birb

A birb that for some reason can't transform to defeat the CS
It could have been retconed of course

[rancid slate]

HB Harvey also doesnt know where Rusty Lake is

[vivid bridge]

harvey in the 70s was always portrayed as a bird. Him being the one to raise Laura as an asura is either the most egregious retcon so far or just more UB bullcrap

[rancid slate]

Or there are 2 Harveys

[vivid bridge]

I mean, we could always go "it's asura harvey from the past before he died" but we haven't seen time travel like that outside of UB so i'm not convinced its real real

[rancid slate]

I hope not

[vivid bridge]

yeah me neither

[rancid slate]

Laura dying and reviving twice is already too much

If everyone can have infinite lives, then its not gonna be a surprise anymore

[vivid bridge]

what do you mean Laura died twice?

[visual coral]

I think the fruit thing is just a surreal time skip and Harvey refering to that weird spiral thing
Like he's fallen asleep or whatever
If you're talking about that line

[vivid bridge]

yeah when Harvey says "what is this place" he's referring to the box

his little bird brain is losing his grip

[visual coral]

Well she most likely will in the Day of the Lake

Rusty Lake: Laura's dying(again)

[vivid bridge]

I guess

if we count her current state as alive

[rancid slate]

She died in 1971 and apparently gets revived just before the Day of the Lake

She says in Paradox the usual "one die blah blah one gets enlightened" and we know that Seasons and UB show her living a good life, which also just before that, shes dead

[visual coral]

I really wish to know how the hell is is alive in the elevator

[rancid slate]

Possibly due to Green Vial ending in Paradox

Cave also showed her being uncorrupted

[visual coral]

And what happened after she became a CS in the Mill and the Cave

[visual coral]

But Paradox is a constructed dream
It's supposed to be in Dale's head

[vivid bridge]

she became a CS in the mill, then a magician appeared and teleported her onto a magic train and then uhhh cave happens

[rancid slate]

Yeah, but Laura is there too

[visual coral]

In reality they both in the big white cube

[rancid slate]

They are connected in Cave

And Dale also asks if Laura is there too

[visual coral]

Damn, David really improved since Paradise

[rancid slate]

Green Vial ending is all about saving Laura

[rancid slate]

I think UB is after her 2nd death

[vivid bridge]

I don't think the ending of Paradox is about saving Laura, its about teaching Dale that they can't both live

[rancid slate]

Green Vial ending is

[vivid bridge]

like after the day of the lake?

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[vivid bridge]

mmmmmmmmmmm

maybe but that would require UB's main game to take place after the post game

[rancid slate]

Nowhere pointed out that we hear "Where did she go?" when the Big White Cube opens, implying that Laura hasnt figured out yet

[rancid slate]

The Lake is timeless tho 👽

[vivid bridge]

I always wanted them to make a game that explains Seasons more, like when it takes place, how Laura got there, etc. And then they made UB, which is every problem I have with Seasons upped to 11

thanks rusty lake

[covert wyvern]

You're welcome!

[visual coral]

That would mean everything is basically happening all at once in there

[rancid slate]

Yeah

And also not

Cuz theres no time

Yknow?

It all already happened, is happening and will happen

[rancid slate]

I think Seasons and UB are kinda the same lore-wise, irl would happen in 1981 which makes sense to be future

In both, Laura gets to live happily ever after

Unless

Shes dies 3 times

😭

[vivid bridge]

they'll just keep making Laura epilogues until the sun explodes

[visual coral]

She died as William the first time

[lunar egret]

We have seen harvey in paradise in bird form which is very confusing

[rancid slate]

She will die for each Vanderboom sacrifice

[lunar egret]

So maybe that's because he time travels

[visual coral]

Or he's really old

[rancid slate]

And also asura in TPW Future

[lunar egret]

Yes but he can't be a bird at that time

Was he a bird before he became an asura ?

[honest brook]

Maybe

[visual coral]

But if he was enlightened he could

[rancid slate]

We dont know if Harvey even exists

[visual coral]

Like the dog

[rancid slate]

Maybe hes just a projection of our imagination

[lunar egret]

But that's the problem

[visual coral]

How he became an asura is still unclear

[lunar egret]

Animals drinking elixir does not result with an asura

[visual coral]

Exactly

But he was one

[rancid slate]

Drinking

The elixir can be consumed in many ways

And it only happened once

Cant be considered a 100% thing yet

[lunar egret]

Harvey is special for sure but did he enlightened before Mr. Owl ?

[visual coral]

The devs said something along the lines of "Harvey is an old character and he is a guide for other characters"

[rancid slate]

I think they said he is ancient too, right?

[visual coral]

Not sure

[rancid slate]

Gotta have Harvey taking a selfie with the Mammoth

[lunar egret]

And why becoming an asura is called enlightenment

[rancid slate]

Changing realms is enlightening

[lunar egret]

Isn't enlightenment a different thing

[visual coral]

In RL they call any upgrade on the Samsara wheel an enlightenment

They have their one interpretation of Samsara

Cause Laura is called an enlightened mind in the Cave book

[honest brook]

William's corrupted soul becoming Laura was also called "enlightenment"

[visual coral]

yep

[lunar egret]

Laura was something else

[azure bay]

like what?

[lunar egret]

I beleived she was enlightened

In litteral sense

[rancid slate]

The Thief becoming Mr. Mammoth

[azure bay]

you mean "original" sense?

nirvana

[lunar egret]

Yes

[azure bay]

that's clearly not the case

[lunar egret]

Yeah it doesn't feel like that

[azure bay]

she's living, dying and being reborn

[rancid slate]

Laura III

[azure bay]

if anything becoming a tree in a place with no time looks like Nirvana

but the forest is also known as naraka

at least one of the forests

[rancid slate]

The red one

Cuz red is evil

[azure bay]

but it still may end up the same old forest

[rancid slate]

Red is 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂

The 𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂 forest

[lunar egret]

Then why is Laura special ?

[rancid slate]

In which sense?

For the Day of the Lake?

[lunar egret]

No

[rancid slate]

In UB ending?

[lunar egret]

Kinda

[azure bay]

tell us what you mean

[lunar egret]

They say to william that he needs to become something else

[honest brook]

I just checked, it's "the reborn mind"

[azure bay]

The owl may've meant becoming a human

[lunar egret]

Then why william tries so hard to reborn

He kinda loses his memories

[azure bay]

at least in mythology existence as a hungry ghost is suffering in itself

[rancid slate]

Cuz William was so good of a character they had to delete him from existence

[lunar egret]

I see

[azure bay]

I think narratively they wanted a cool origin story that doesn't affect her traits of character

[rancid slate]

Its possible that they knew it from the start

[lunar egret]

It just felt like she needed to be more special

[rancid slate]

The 3 drawings probably were already there

[visual coral]

Damn that Mandela's effect
But still after Seasons she's definitely enlightened and still just went from CS to human

[azure bay]

she is in a sense. The devs said, she's a lady of the lake (whatever that means)

or maybe became such at some later point

[rancid slate]

In terms of Williamess, she has his memories deep inside her brain, she doesnt know it but she does

[azure bay]

that's at least one of the reasons why Owl is after her

[rancid slate]

And also cuz she is their number 1 prozac consumer

Shes worth a lot of money

[lunar egret]

"The fate of rusty lake lies in this seed"

Mr. Crow says

[azure bay]

that's a weird phrase

It implies Owl knows something big about the future

[rancid slate]

He saw another white cube offscreen

[azure bay]

but at the same time he miserably fails at getting William's journals while he still could

and thus he's in quite a pitiful state in The Cave

[rancid slate]

Mary sold them on ebay

And the founder of BKM found it

[azure bay]

you mean Mr. Owl?

[rancid slate]

No,

Mr. Fish

Its the 2000s, baby

[azure bay]

BKM existed in the 60s

[remote remnant]

I got a question for the bright minds out there
Im replaying the White Door and im wondering is Bob's story over or will/can he appear in the future games?

[rancid slate]

Dang 😔

[azure bay]

his arc is over, his cameos are expected

[lunar egret]

Since he forgot Laura I think they are done with him

[honest brook]

At least he appeared in Underground Blossom

[rancid slate]

It doesnt end in a good way

[remote remnant]

Im just glad he got a happy ending then

I love bob

[azure bay]

maybe Mr. Robin is canon?

[rancid slate]

He will try to save Laura in the DotL and become Deva

[azure bay]

to replace Mr. Crow while Mr. VanderDeer replaces Owl?

[rancid slate]

Dale will die

And Laura will live

!!!!

[lunar egret]

Maybe

But why would they choose him

[azure bay]

that's a borderline crackpot theory btw

based just on 1 delirious appearance of Bob with a robin head

[rancid slate]

Mr. Mammoth will replace Mr. Crow

[azure bay]

Mr. Mammoth is not real, he can't hurt my boy

[rancid slate]

And the Thief will become Young Bird

[lunar egret]

Mr. Eilander

[rancid slate]

He appears in Cube Escape 2

[lunar egret]

Why is he special ?

[remote remnant]

CE: Battle royale

[rancid slate]

Nicholas or David?

[lunar egret]

Oh God

[azure bay]

he's been busy...

[lunar egret]

David

[rancid slate]

Hes Mr. Rabbit

Which killed Dale's parents

[lunar egret]

How did his cs appeared before he died ?

[rancid slate]

He dies 1893

Dale's 9th bday is in 1939

[vivid bridge]

different guy ;)

[azure bay]

we see Laura's cs before she dies

[lunar egret]

How

[rancid slate]

Oh hes talkin about the achievement

[lunar egret]

When

[azure bay]

he's half kidding

[rancid slate]

🐈

[azure bay]

outside, in Seasons

[rancid slate]

A lore explanation could be that Corrupted Souls can time travel in some sort of way..?

Or hes just there from the future

We see him in 1939 and still inside the Lake later on

And he shouldnt be there if his plan possibly worked at first in 1939

[lunar egret]

He did get the substence of his past live

[rancid slate]

His timeline is unknown

[lunar egret]

What did change about him after that

[rancid slate]

We dont know

[azure bay]

I'd assume he'd be reborn or resurrected, assuming he succeeded

[lunar egret]

But he is in the lake in cave

[rancid slate]

He also appears in Paradise too

Maybe its all a magic trick and he indeed is the best magician

[azure bay]

this series was never linear

[lunar egret]

Yeah that place is inside the lake

So no time

[rancid slate]

Lake complete timeless timeline when

[azure bay]

but I think wherever he came from, he did kill Dale's parent for real

[lunar egret]

Maybe Mr. Owl caused that

[rancid slate]

Dale caused that

[azure bay]

I really don't think so. He found Dale around 60s/70s

[rancid slate]

But

[lunar egret]

The gun was in their house but why would it be there. So maybe Mr. Owl gave that to his family somehow to trigger that. So he would become a detective

[rancid slate]

What if

Mr. Rabbit saw the White Cube

Or just know what is there

[lunar egret]

But he saw him in the white cube

[azure bay]

he saw a middle-aged man with no name nor biography

[rancid slate]

They have shinigami eyes

[azure bay]

he wouldn't recognize him even if he met him on the street until he's old enough

[rancid slate]

Unless

[lunar egret]

And btw how did Mr. Owl saw that

[azure bay]

it could've gotten there randomly just like that. ||That's fate!||

Or alternatively Mr. Crow could still be his biological grandpa

[rancid slate]

He saw Dale entering the Bday cube

And uuhh idk

[lunar egret]

Isn' white cube only shows memories ?

[rancid slate]

Mr. Rabbit looking at the bday cube becomin white (Dale killed him):

[azure bay]

it was said loud and clear: "The memories are not only key to the past but also to the future"

[rancid slate]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-black-guy-gif-5750196720983083288

[azure bay]

we don't know how but we can speculate.

Maybe it has something to do with corrupted souls having some unique relationship with time. Maybe it's about the lake not having time at all

[rancid slate]

The cs's were possibly already in the Lake, which is timeless, saw Dale's arrival and all the 5 made one White Cube which was extracted

Yeah

And its even possible that each death was a black cube

Which considering their black cubes were just next to them, Corrupted Mr. Rabbit could see it

And simply appear in the window

[azure bay]

here, I'm not sure

in Hotel it was literal

in Paradise it was figurative

like "my memories will make your future happen"

in The Cave I'm not sure anymore

Dale's case is close to Paradise

[rancid slate]

Maybe it is in the context of Cave

[azure bay]

but TPW has introduced a golden cube as another future container

[rancid slate]

Its about the 4 cubes from Cave

Laura's past, Laura's suicide, the clock and the Elixir

[azure bay]

TPW really messes up with expectations

we have different reference points but they are contradicting

[rancid slate]

TPW doesnt even make a phrase for the GC 😭

[lunar egret]

Eventually the white cube needs to be someones memory right ?

[rancid slate]

Its just

Boom

Golden Cube

[azure bay]

what do you mean by "eventually"?

[rancid slate]

Put it in the device

[lunar egret]

I mean do we know another way to get the white cube ?

[rancid slate]

Shooting yourself

Arles

[lunar egret]

But that happens in a cube

[rancid slate]

Craft one

Roots

[lunar egret]

Making a good memory out of memory changes the black cube to white

[azure bay]

dude, forget about that. Everything is cubes.

[rancid slate]

Take it out of Bob's head, Theatre

[lunar egret]

But there was alreadya cube in hand

[rancid slate]

Kill Mr. Rabbit, bday

[vivid bridge]

but those are all inside memories

[rancid slate]

Trade it for an egg, Case 23

[vivid bridge]

true

but that was a test by mr owl

[rancid slate]

Thats the price of a cube

An egg

[lunar egret]

That's actually very complicated I think

[azure bay]

cubes may be extracted, cubes may be lost by a CS, cubes may or may not be synthesized alchemically, cubes may be made from energy

[rancid slate]

I am a Cube

[azure bay]

which happened in Hotel if any is unclear

[lunar egret]

When it was synthesized ?

[rancid slate]

Roots

[azure bay]

I wouldn't trust it too much

[rancid slate]

William was the master of alchemy

He created magma

He is the real Deva

[azure bay]

the alchemy level is a big gameplay gimmick

a big reference full of other references

and it doesn't make much sense

[rancid slate]

Just like

All of the games

And we love it

Yay

[azure bay]

but it's there and we cannot completely ignore it

[rancid slate]

Thief Vandermeer

[rancid slate]

Basically, any good thing I think

For the owner(s) of the cube

[lunar egret]

So how did it exist there in hotel

[rancid slate]

It was alchemy

/j

You kill all 5 guests

Each one with a black cube

And then theres 1 white cube

You presume these memories were extracted

In the previous game, The Mill, two cubes were extracted, one black and one white

You could think that either this white cube belongs to all of the 5

Or it belongs to someone else

Like

Young Bird

[lunar egret]

How would any of them have a memory of dale

[rancid slate]

The Lake

[azure bay]

we don't know. We know that it was made in the kitchen. It's the 5th dinner

[rancid slate]

Its possible that they fed the guests to the Lake

Or maybe, their white cubes

Since we dont see them, assumin they were extracted

And then, the Lake couldve given Mr. Owl one white cube

Which is the one we see

.
There are many ways of how it couldve happen

But nothing confirmed, so who knows

Maybe it was alchemy after all

[azure bay]

I wouldn't go too deep into speculations

at least I would base them on what we already see in the games

like corrupted souls timeline travelling

or cubes being extracted

[rancid slate]

Thats why I gave another possibilty

In case that neither of these two were the case

[azure bay]

Possibilities are infinite

The reality is single (if exists)

Wild guesses are like wild shots

Thy're likely to end up anywhere but the bull's eye

[rancid slate]

Could also match with the DotL if you consider the chosen one being chosen by the Lake

[azure bay]

Who's chosen in Hotel?

[rancid slate]

Lets say its Dale and that White Cube is basically the Lake saying "Thats the guy"

[azure bay]

We know nothing about the same thing being said about Jakob

[rancid slate]

I know

But what if the 5 animals were already sacrificed before?

[azure bay]

What are you talking about?

[rancid slate]

[azure bay]

Who sacrificed them?

[rancid slate]

The Eilander

And then they took their roles

Got a white cube

Of Jakob being the next one

No elevator

Cuz

Jakob is not being enlightened

They are

[azure bay]

This theory is even less probable.

When reasoning rationally, you should keep an eye on what assumptions are based on.

In this specific case the theory of sacrificed animals doesn't support the theory of the lake's revelation via the white cube. It's vise versa actually, you are introducing these animals as if the lake's revelation is already true. Which is not confirmed in any shape or form.

And assumptions based on other baseless assumptions are even more shaky

[rancid slate]

I didnt meant actual animals

More as the asuras that were the same animals

Deer, rabbit, pigeon, etc

[azure bay]

My point stands

You are introducing debatable concepts we've never heard of based on other debatable concepts we've never heard of

[rancid slate]

👽

Technically, Mr. Owl does say "Paradise will rise again"

[azure bay]

And it does, as the hotel

Regardless of killing innocent asuras we've never seen or the lake speaking through cubes

[rancid slate]

And Nicholas says "Paradise requires sacrifice"

[azure bay]

You don't know what he meant. Neither do I

But we can't fill in gaps with desperate guesses

[royal notch]

Most probably just the fact that for enlightenment someone has to die. As they meant until the end.

[azure bay]

Agree

But that's at least based on something observable and certain

[rancid slate]

We do know that we will have the Mammoth game

We know that the Paradise island is the same as Hotel

[rancid slate]

And you could compare Nicholas to Mr. Owl

[azure bay]

And that's it

Going further without solid evidence will detach you from reality

[rancid slate]

What if theres another DotL?

Between Paradise and 1972

[azure bay]

Probably

So?

[rancid slate]

What if the line being in 1935 was not to match with Laura?

[azure bay]

To match with Laura?

I'm not quite following

[rancid slate]

Why do you think the RL station is at the same period as Crib Station?

[azure bay]

Because a person crutial for their plans was reborn

[rancid slate]

Do you think the DotL will have a plot twist?

And not be Dale somehow

[azure bay]

They are foreshadowing Dale. Subverting these expectations will be straight lying.

If there will be a plot twist I expect it to be about how everything happens

But not the end result

Unless we're getting multiple endings

[rancid slate]

We currently know two of them, which have different intentions

So having another with a different intention between these two could be real

[azure bay]

I don't get what u mean

[rancid slate]

Initially, I just thought of connecting it to the renovation

In Paradise, the family sacrifices Jakob

In 1972, we dont know yet, but following the hints, as you said, is going to be Dale becoming Deva

They only have in common the enlightenment

But thats everywhere anyway

[azure bay]

One of my guesses was that someone will be sacriced to enlighten the guests and remove their corruption

Another guess of mine was that Owl took a role of the ruler because he took the elixir on that special day

And there's always a possibility that we'll get inconsistencies simply because the devs prioritize novelty

[rancid slate]

They better enlighten Young Bird, dead or not

[lunar egret]

Did Laura met bob after the memory of spring 1964

[azure bay]

that's what I think but I don't have particularly good reasons for that

previously I thought that Harvey was imitating Bob in Summer

but eventually found out that the stock sound effect is supposed to belong to a demon

and a notion that "5 years of dating without breaking up or marrying is too long"

but I wouldn't say it's impossible

wouldn't say it's implausible either

[lunar egret]

But in spring she had prozac

I think she started to seeing a doctor after she lost the timepiece

[azure bay]

that's a neat idea but it requires more evidence

on the other hand, Dr. Clark was her treating doctor

his specialty is art therapy

and Laura had been drawing good and bad memories even before she met bob

[lunar egret]

She was drawing even when she was in school

[azure bay]

maybe?

we didn't see that

but the album used to belong to Rose

[lunar egret]

Ah wait

It was photo's not drawings

My bad

So she have faced mental problems even before losing the timepiece

[azure bay]

possibly

we have evidence but nothing that breaks the deal

Laura was traumatized and could have been even attending therapy but the timepiece could still keep that in check

not letting her fall too far

[lunar egret]

Yeah

Her childhood trauma and the reason she killed herself is different I guess

[azure bay]

We can criticize UB for its vagueness but the most important thing was blunt

Laura did die because she missed her mother

that's the root reason and the focus

[carmine field]

Not really, Laura was holding a painting of Rose before she died

The implication is quite clear

[azure bay]

Also
"Where did she go?"
"Will I ever know?"
"Oh, I'm dead!"

[carmine field]

Yep!

[remote remnant]

correct me if I'm wrong but at the end of the past within the Roses "merge" or whatever into a tree at the bottom of the lake

that takes place in 1984, right?

[azure bay]

That takes place outside the time flow

Rose from 1926, Rose from 1984 and Laura from some time in between can all meet up

[remote remnant]

so the lake is outside the flow of time or?

[azure bay]

"the lake is a place where time does not exist"

[remote remnant]

yeahhh

TPW and UB really confused me

also is the ending of seasons where laura is uncorrupted & the end of UB connected somehow?

[azure bay]

So I think

some may disagree

[remote remnant]

after what you said about time not existing within the lake i am really confused how UB & seasons are connected

[azure bay]

Seasons are about Laura returning to her cubes likely within the lake

[remote remnant]

so does the end of seasons take place before or after the end of UB? atleast in your opinion

[azure bay]

and Underground Blossom is a metaphorical mess, so I think Seasons take place during the end of UB.

At least there has to be something more than meets the eye. Roses ask Harvey to help Laura and then suddenly they share their blossom without us doing a thing

[remote remnant]

at the end of seasons laura is in the seasons room, but at the end of UB she goes up the elevator

so maybe there is an event between the end of UB & the end of seasons

idk im really confused

[azure bay]

here the thing

Seasons likely take place in 1981

The elevator trip takes place in 1972

Underground Blossom has no dates

and may fit any of them

but

I think the "endings" aren't visited in the chronological order

in blossom scene Laura says that

1. her mother is there for her

2. she can live another life without sorrow

in the elevator scene we witness:

1. the repetition of her dying question "Where did she go?" as if her knowledge and trauma were rewinded

2. she takes an elevator towards a deadly lottery effectively throwing her new life away

I think it's due to the timeless nature of the lake that Harvey sees the events taking place there out of order

because the order probably doesn't even exist

the time is a thing elsewhere

[remote remnant]

so the elevator & the day of the lake take place in 1972

?

[azure bay]

that's canon

but how UB fits into all that is another question

[remote remnant]

very confusing indeed

and with albert being revived its even more confusing

[azure bay]

I think Albert is more or less straightforward

He was revived in 1984 so I don't expect him causing problems for another 12 years after the day of the lake

[remote remnant]

and what about Rose

does she just

not exist as a person anymore?

and is a true at the bottom of the lake now

[azure bay]

I'd say, she is still a person but no, I don't expect her to do something meaningful outside the lake unless it's a flashback or they explore deeper whatever they implied by Laura's blossom

[remote remnant]

But if the elevator is in 1972, and Seasons takes place in 1981, and laura is corrupted, does that mean that she died in the DoTL and Dale became immortal?

since when William died, he became corrupted too

and they're the same soul

[azure bay]

that's what I expect. They foreshadow Dale's ascension left and right.

Unless we're getting extra endings

[remote remnant]

idk they also foreshadow dale's death sometimes but

Im very unsure

[azure bay]

you mean his hanged version in Paradox?

[remote remnant]

I havent played paradox chapter 2 in a while

will probavbly replay it tn

so i cant exactly remember

but i remember some people talking about dale's death & lauras ascension

[azure bay]

then what foreshadowing do you mean?

[remote remnant]

as i said im not entirely sure

just heard some people talking about it

[azure bay]

In theatre there are 2 hints that Dale will become a deva. A creature cooler than Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl

In Paradox Mr. Owl emphasizes parallels between him and Dale and says that he needs a successor

not entirely sure how but his letter in The Mill also says about Dale eventually dealing with corrupted souls haunting the lake

Laura has nothing like that except Dale being able to save her if he chooses to sacrifice himself

but that may be limited to Paradox

if not it implies a choice

[remote remnant]

cool!

[lunar egret]

Is Mr. Crow was really in theatre ?

I don't thiink that would be possible since he looked much older at that time and his mouth was sewed

[remote remnant]

he's been old since like 1859

everything's possible

[lunar egret]

But gets older overtime

But not in a very human like way

[vivid bridge]

idk

he looks the same as he did in Roots

[rancid slate]

Except for his little beard

[vivid bridge]

Owl was like "shave that shit"

[royal notch]

Honestly i don't think he was actually there, like Mr Owl.

[visual coral]

I think he was
Bob's memory is the closest to real events, so I think it's a good observation point
Someone did extract Bob's memories in that theatre and gave him a gun that somehow didn't kill him

[azure bay]

It's called Rusty Lake Theatre. Mr. Crow was seen there by 2 different people. Later on Bob ended up in The White Door.

I'm sure he was there. Maybe it is his real face, maybe not anymore but he was there

[royal notch]

As long as the same context shows a man headshotting himself and not dying, i'm unable to buy it.

[azure bay]

that's ok it doesn't have to be all real

but some of it you just can't deny

and Mr. Crow is such

[royal notch]

Depends on what's the "something". Since we see a "real" Mr Crow just 1 year apart, i deduct that also that theathre Mr Crow isn't real.

[vivid bridge]

what "real" Mr Crow

[royal notch]

In the Cave.

[vivid bridge]

I think its just a change in artstyle

[azure bay]

no, it's rather about his age

we see him older in The Mill that starts before Theatre

[vivid bridge]

in underground blossom, he's in his theatre design

[royal notch]

And UB is the metaphorical mess we love.

[vivid bridge]

I only use UB as evidence when it helps me

😎

but yeah you're probably right

thanks UB

you piece of

[azure bay]

It's a real location, it's a suitable person to complete an important task or maybe several of them (if you count Cube Escape). Even if he's supposed to look differently, there's no way it's entirely unreal.

again

you can't deny some things

including Mr. Crow

take it as a mask, take it as elixir failing to stop his aging the very next day but he was there

[royal notch]

What i feel i can't deny are Dale's and Bob's presence and the fact that somehow Bob lost all his memories there. That's it. How can you be so sure about him? Only because he appeared twice?

[azure bay]

you shouldn't underestimate multiple perspectives

you may have an unreliable narrator

you may even have 2 unreliable narrators

but them agreeing with one another is unheard of

collective hallucinations don't make sense here

[royal notch]

I agree that the probabilities thins out, but still it shouldn't be taken as a certainty.

[azure bay]

tell me please why would Bob see Mr. Crow if he wasn't even there?

what would anyone gain from that?

[royal notch]

I have no idea. Perhaps they needed an excuse for his recovery, even if later on.

[azure bay]

what excuse?

I don't follow

[royal notch]

As i said, i don't know.

[azure bay]

then please listen

Mr. Crow being there just makes sense

it's their turf, Bob is an important target already on their hook

Important enough to send your right hand on a mission

and whatever happens there ends up with Bob in their institution

[royal notch]

To push your hook to suicide?

[azure bay]

I'm not telling the shot is necessarily real

It may be, it may be not

but it IS part of the plan and it IS important

even if it was real, Mr. Owl would have a way to ensure Bob's survival

otherwise it wouldn't happen

[vivid bridge]

I think the shot was real. Like the physical trauma activated the corruption, which in turn saved him from dying

[azure bay]

that a viable possibility ☝️

or maybe the shot IS some kind of illusion

[vivid bridge]

portable memory extractor

[azure bay]

but the point is, the location and the plan executor are important @royal notch

[royal notch]

Brb, gotta exit this bus.

[rancid slate]

Do u guys think TWD dreams are somehow related to the 5 cubes in CE Theatre?

[vivid bridge]

do they match up?

[rancid slate]

Kinda

[azure bay]

they generally look like memories about Laura. They are the focus of TWD

[vivid bridge]

yeah I don't think they fit

[rancid slate]

Dreams:
1 Laura breakup
2 Not Laura
3 Laura death
4 suicide attempt because of Laura
5 Laura at club
6 Not Laura
7 Laura meeting

4 also her photo

So basically she visually appears in 5

Just like there are 5 cubes

[honest brook]

In the second dream, she appears in the photo in his locker

[rancid slate]

And the 7th dream ends with a square on her face

👽

Dang

[azure bay]

2 was about Bob being distracted by the break-up

[rancid slate]

But this one is the only to match with Theatre

The white cube

[honest brook]

But in Theatre, the one with her face is a black cube depicting her death, it doesn't quite match

[rancid slate]

I always forgot uf its black or white 💀

[honest brook]

It doesn't seem likely to me that they're the same memories

[azure bay]

the only match in my book is her death memory and Dream 3

but I don't think it's literal

there's no way he's seen her death