🤔｜theories

[dire cobalt]

oh wow!! i signed up but i have no idea where to get the game itself :0

[honest brook]

Once you sign up, the PDF should be sent in an email after some time

[dire cobalt]

oh oki! i'll be waiting

my cousins are here and they like rusty lake so we could do the first one together :D

altho there are only 2 of them so i gotta bribe someone else too

[rancid slate]

What if

The 2nd RLU campaign gets teased in the next game

Just like UB Lab did 🐈

[rancid slate]

Would be a long waiting, but would also mean that they put a lot of work in the experience

[autumn bloom]

The always put a lot of work in the experience.

And story

[rancid slate]

Real

[royal notch]

They promised it to be released at the end of the year, so i don't think it's possible.

[rancid slate]

Planned to

[dire cobalt]

ok so im trying to piece together some things about the rusty lake universe
and one thing confuses me

corrupted soul (the one who appears in most games) is laura right? and this plus her prescription hints at ||laura committing suicide||

but also in paradox pt 2 ending, dale is the one whose soul gets corrupted and he kills laura

but ALSO dale watches the corrupted soul kill laura, so was it actually laura herself or dale, or is corrupted soul someone entirely different?

[grim lagoon]

Lots of people believe that this soul that killed Laura is Dale

[azure bay]

we've seen her memories observed from an objective pov. She's committed suicide

[azure bay]

How many such people do you know?

[dire cobalt]

i think dale killing her doesn't make much sense cause dale is introduced to laura for the first time when she dies

[dire cobalt]

yeah i guess this is basically what cube escape seasons was 😔😔

[rancid slate]

Cave too

[azure bay]

Paradox features Dale coming from the future. It could have been the case in the reality if not for other evidence

[dire cobalt]

OHH TRUE

[dire cobalt]

tbh i havent played cave in a while! what exactly implied that in the cave? :0

[azure bay]

Seasons are difficult to interpret so the better source is The Cave

[dire cobalt]

from what i remember it was mainly about mr owl and crow

[rancid slate]

Literally shows Lqura cutting her throat

[dire cobalt]

RIGHT

i forgot the ending </3

then yeah thats settled lol

[rancid slate]

Lotta people

[honest brook]

Also, Paradox is supposed to be a simulation, so what we see there didn’t actually happen in “real life”

[autumn bloom]

Wait, what are we talking about?

[rancid slate]

Paradox

[autumn bloom]

Oh

[dire cobalt]

man 😔 it's too good to not be real

paradox is the reason i love dale so much

[errant estuary]

help i started blabbering about rusty lake

and my interpretation of the youngest eilanders

[azure bay]

dunno, I don't tend to blame the Eilanders much for what they've done.

Yes, human sacrifices are immoral for us but it doesn't make the siblings inherently bad people. They were born in a cult, they knew nothing else. Won't speak of David but Elizabeth is one of the most lovely family members there.

On the other hand, it's not certain but IF Caroline was born in that same environment it makes her even more virtuous.

[rancid slate]

And it was also normal back then

[azure bay]

Matricide?

[rancid slate]

Being immoral lol

[errant estuary]

didnt say bad, just not good people

and why would they be, this is what keeps them alive

[azure bay]

I think it may depend on definition of good

For instance, Margaret seems to be one of the most supportive characters in the series ever

And yet, she's with them on that

[errant estuary]

yeah

in my mind tho, elizabeth and david’s silly shenanigans were them rightfully lashing out

[azure bay]

I don't recall Elizabeth doing something like that

[errant estuary]

oh, i just… interpret the ear incident as a way for her to get back a bit of control of her life, in her mind at least

[azure bay]

I think she was just blind

[errant estuary]

another thing i sometimes think about is the fact that her staying behind during the eighth plague either means she didn’t care, or her family didn’t care

both of which is a sad idea

[dire cobalt]

i mever thought about this

for some reason it never occurred to me that they were born into a cult

i thought they all consciously wanted this 😭😭😭

[azure bay]

For me, it's not that somebody didn't care. More like she was capable.

The fog drastically hinders visibility. Elizabeth had adapted to living with none. And somehow she's able to "see" even more than usual. She's a natural companion for such a situation.

[errant estuary]

yeah, it’s sometimes easy to forget that the eilander siblings were basically raised for this

[errant estuary]

maybe im just tainted by the fact that she turns into a pheasant, an animal that’s renowned for being near suicidal because they werent raised to survive

[wheat ore]

LMFAO REALLY ???

[azure bay]

I wonder if the devs are aware

[errant estuary]

yeah
majority of pheasants, at least in britain, were born in captivity, and released to be hunted for sport

and so, they are known to run in front of traffic

[wheat ore]

awh

that's actually quite sad

hunting is one thing but actually making them unable to fight back or run much is insane

[errant estuary]

which has affected my interpretation of elizabeth; she was never going to get away

[wheat ore]

yeah it's poetic

[errant estuary]

and she likely knew that

[azure bay]

I'm really unsure whether behavior of the specimen raised in captivity should affect the symbolism of the species in general

[wheat ore]

yeah it kinda feel like cheating

[azure bay]

Elizabeth seems a weird autistic (?) girl that sees something normal people don't even notice and Pheasant seems like a sad attention hungry star

[errant estuary]

yeah, maybe

[errant estuary]

her and mr rabbit seem horribly attention starved

at least in the past

they just want to be seen

[floral veldt]

David's line "At least I'm not the one dying tonight" is, at first, mocking us. But we could see it as him being relieved. Gerard, Margaret, and Nicholas must have put those kids through lots of presure

[errant estuary]

he said “i hope”
if he’s actually dumb enough, he might think he’s a candidate

[errant estuary]

maybe not tho

[errant estuary]

what being indoctrinated to believe you need to sacrifice your long lost brother does to a mf

😔

[rancid slate]

And then Jakob said "Cameraman never dies"

[analog imp]

I think Laura will be reborn

[honest brook]

We've already seen her coming back to life in Seasons and Underground Blossom

[analog imp]

in seasons it does not revive

[honest brook]

At the end, we can see her going from a corrupted soul to coming back to life

[analog imp]

It is corrupted, but it does not come back to life just like that.

[azure bay]

👀

[azure bay]

In the end we do see her ceasing being corrupted in 1964 and being alive in 1981

[honest brook]

It's not "just like that". A lot happened to get to that point

[analog imp]

but then how does the story continue with her?

[honest brook]

Well, now that she's alive, she'll go to the Hotel, where the Day of the Lake ritual will take place

[azure bay]

I really don't think Seasons are connected to however Laura is alive before the day of the lake

[analog imp]

Laura goes to ritual, but i cant see she in another game make the ritual

[honest brook]

I didn't say it was connected. I'm just saying that we see that she comes back to life there, as one example.

[azure bay]

I see

[analog imp]

Did Laura know that she was the reincarnation of James Vanderboom?

[honest brook]

It's William Vanderboom

I don't think she knew to begin with, but it seems that she realised at some point

[analog imp]

I was wrong, sorry

[azure bay]

Here's the deal. Seasons likely take place very late in the timeline.

I bet on Winter 1981 being at least somewhat a real memory in the beginning. Which means that she started meddling with cubes at least then.

While the majority of Cube Escape storyline takes place between 1969 and 1972. Decades before Laura set off to change her cubes

[analog imp]

but did she know?

[azure bay]

I don't see her knowing

[analog imp]

Ok

[lunar egret]

Who is the woman that plays lady of the lake in theater ?

[azure bay]

we don't really know but if we take a guess, it's either Ms. Pheasant in some form or her pretender

if she's actually Ms. Pheasant I have no idea how it's possible

she's supposed to be dead haunting the lake

but the songstress does have strong Pheasant vibes

[lunar egret]

I thought everybody in dale's memories needs to be someone closely related to lake

But we saw his parents too

So maybe she is just an actress in the real theater

[honest brook]

I think his memories can be of anyone he remembers

[lunar egret]

So other then that what's the importance of the fish

[azure bay]

and yet she's real, her dress is real and she performs in Mr. Owl's theatre

[lunar egret]

Is it like since dale is actually in the lake when he sets a mousetrap a fish caughts by

Or when he releases a fish it swims

[azure bay]

I don't think water physics are at fault here

the same happened in Roots

[honest brook]

The fish in the mousetrap might just be for comedic effect

[half viper]

lol

[lunar egret]

Then we saw fish with legs in harveys box

Also we saw mr. Crow there

[azure bay]

if we speak of its importance, in Theatre it represents the animal realm of samsara

[lunar egret]

How was that possible

[azure bay]

I don't think it is. I'd bet on it being a WTF moment and a Magritte reference

[lunar egret]

The circle of life in theater

What does it represents

[azure bay]

samsara

[honest brook]

It shows the six realms of existence

[lunar egret]

Can you guys explain it ?

[azure bay]

in Buddhism, Hinduism and other eastern isms there's a system of reincarnation.

The wheel of samsara with 6 stages represents 6 froms a person can be reborn in. Gods, demons/demigods (like Mr. Crow), humans, animals, hungry ghosts (corrupted souls) and hell dwellers (probably trees)

Theatre is a lesson for Dale about this reality

[lunar egret]

That's very cool

[azure bay]

and that he'll probably become a god

[lunar egret]

Yeah I think so since in theatre god is shown with a quastion mark and when he looks at the frame he sees his own reflection

[azure bay]

exactly

[lunar egret]

What is Hell dweller btw

[azure bay]

and also Mr. Owl plays Dale in the respective play

[azure bay]

normally a sinner suffering in hell. In Rusty Lake.. idk. They changed some things

[lunar egret]

Yeah it could be a lot of things

Maybe somethings became trees in lake to suffer or something like that

But I don't know what they could be corrupted souls or something else

[azure bay]

It's believed that the lake forest is that hell (even tho it doesn't really look that hellish) and Rose becoming one makes us think that other trees are people too. The problem is, Rose didn't seem to suffer. Even on the contrary, she's enlightened

[lunar egret]

In seasons when laura looks to the mushrooms we saw this red forest

That seems pretty hellish

But I think they are the same

[azure bay]

we've seen the red forest specifically in Laura's dreams in UB. It makes me and some other theorists think that red forest could be a separate thing

[lunar egret]

But in theatre the circle of life's hell dwellers part is represented with red forest

[azure bay]

yes

I mean the foggy lake forest may be a separate thing

not hell

I recall the devs saying something about samsara. I need to verify their wording

[honest brook]

I think the underwater forest is more like purgatory than Naraka

[lunar egret]

Maybe this is because only rose's tree blossomed

[azure bay]

I'm calling it hell because narakas are originally considered such. As I said, Rusty Lake may alter these concepts

[honest brook]

Yes, I'm trying to say that I don't think that the Lake forest is Naraka at all.

[lunar egret]

So Mr. Owl will become a fish in the future

Why is that ?

[azure bay]

he'll die

and be reborn

[lunar egret]

But why as a fish ?

[azure bay]

I don't think there's a reason

[azure bay]

I suppose normally people are being reborn as something random. More or less like in Buddhism.

It's a problem we're seeing only exceptional cases in games

[errant estuary]

likely a karma of inaction

[azure bay]

I don't witness karma in Rusty Lake

not in the traditional sense or morality system

[errant estuary]

i know, i just wanted to add what the animal reincarnations are usually caused by

plus, he’s not a man of action

not directly

at least

[lunar egret]

So that's why he will become an animal when he dies

[azure bay]

I wpuldn't be so sure

[lunar egret]

But how does this circle of life really works ?

How do you become each part of it

[azure bay]

the existence of karma is debatable. So is the evaluation of Mr. Owl

[azure bay]

in the religions or in the games?

[lunar egret]

In games

[azure bay]

that would be rehashing what we've seen in games then

beyond that we know nothing

[lunar egret]

I guess so

One last quastion

When mr. Rabbit dies in birthday he leans to a tree and the tree blossoms

I don't really understood that one

[azure bay]

My recent guess is that the tree somehow (maybe not literally) represents Dale's soul. That's after Rose making it something positive.

On another thought it may be not even blossom but just leaves.

Many think that Rabbit became a tree and it ended good for him. I don't think it would be the case. He didn't plan to be shot and he clearly lost there

[lunar egret]

I see

What was the plan of Mr. Rabbit there

He needed to get the pistol

To escape that state

What he really mean there

[azure bay]

Kill the family, take the pistol (the substance of his past life), somehow use it to be reborn (to cease his supposed corruption)

[lunar egret]

So it must have worked in the original timeline

But we seen him again in cave

As a corrupted soul

[azure bay]

Rabbit's timeline is unclear

from his pov Birthday may take place either after Hotel or after The Cave

[lunar egret]

I guess so

[carmine field]

A game from Mr. Rabbit's perspective would answer a lot of questions

[south haven]

Maybe the blossoming represents him (re?)entering the lake in some fashion? From Underground Blossom it seems that the blossom is somehow connected with becoming of the lake

[fallen sinew]

and tpw, yeah

[rancid slate]

While visually it looks the same

I dont think they are that much related

[fallen sinew]

well the blossoming scene in underground blossom has the two rose vanderbooms just like tpw so

[rancid slate]

I meant the one in Bday

[fallen sinew]

OH sorry

[rancid slate]

What happens with the person inside the cube when the cube breaks?

Does the person die or does it leave the cube?

Like

Being inside a cube that is breaking could feel like someone is tearing fabric of reality and you are part of it

[carmine field]

Have we ever seen a cube break?

[visual coral]

We didn't

But we did saw cubes "lose power" in the Cave
But they still powered up the machine to create the Golden Cube

So I wonder if the cube energy is actually infinite

[inner swift]

cow

[lunar egret]

Who is the corrupted soul we see multiple times in Roots ?

The one with the beak

[visual coral]

We don't know but the devs said it's important

Could be Crow

[south haven]

I believed it was Aldous, bc I thought drinking the potion somehow made you somewhat immortal and half-bird, which means Aldous would've been Mr. Crow by then.
But I admit there's no proof to definitively say that that beaked corrupted soul is Mr. Crow

[honest brook]

But why would Aldous be corrupted? Unless there's more time travel involved

[visual coral]

I can make a vague guess that after the Day of the Lake when Dale is supposed to become a deva something happened that resulted in Crow becoming corrupted

Cause Crow clearly wants he's brother aka Laura to live

[azure bay]

wouldn't say it was that clear recently

[lunar egret]

Why is the rituel in paradise is different from elixir ?

I mean how do they do it without elixir and how all of them turns into hybrids

[visual coral]

Maybe because the Lake is alive and is able to grant enlightenment to people in certain circumstances
Or maybe the ritual itself could imitate the elixir. Caroline's book and the book in the Cave show elixir to be a mix of different kind of cubes. So potentially curing the plagues by throwing a bunch of cubes in the Lake and then making a sacrifice(one dies, one gets enlightened) on a special day could result in it being a form of elixir

[lunar egret]

But Caroline found the elixir right ?

And Aldeus and William tried to recreate it

They used black egg and I don't get that part either

[visual coral]

She created the formula

And the alchemist used that same formula to create their elixir

[lunar egret]

Why they used black egg ?

[visual coral]

I don't think they actually used an egg
I think it was a gameplay element

[south haven]

What do you mean by gameplay element?

[visual coral]

I mean that it's there for the puzzle sake or some symbolism
Like we can all agree that Albert and Frank didn't have a crown and a horse mask on their heads while they were playing chess, it's just for the players

[lunar egret]

How does laura use the blue cube in seasons ?

[south haven]

Thanks for clarifying.

[south haven]

I thought it was to alter her past memories?

[lunar egret]

I mean how does she use it

[rancid slate]

Put it on the famous cube-shaped role

[lunar egret]

What is Dale's connection to deer ?

[azure bay]

Supposedly his future form

not sure if it's lore-related but visually it's inspired by his encounter with corrupted Mr. Deer in Case 23

[lunar egret]

Yes I think so too

How corrupted soul's are formed ?

[azure bay]

what do you mean?

[lunar egret]

I mean how a human becomes a corrupted soul

[azure bay]

many ways

[lunar egret]

I beleive death and extraction of black cube

[azure bay]

1st you may die and be "reborn" as such. Or rather fail to be reborn and exist as a ghost

failing in elixir lottery may or may not guarantee it

bad memory extraction may cause it too but it's somehow avoidable

another aspect of corrupted souls is them being one's "dark side". You may turn into one if you have too much negative emotions

then it seems that simply putting coins on dead man's eyes may cause corruption as well.

But I hate it because it makes no sense if you think about it

I think that's it

[lunar egret]

So that's how Roberth Hill transforms

[azure bay]

I suppose so

[lunar egret]

If he didn't actually shot himself

[azure bay]

if he did it's likely that his memories were extracted as well and that was emphasized to cause corruption

[honest brook]

I think that he did shoot himself, because we see it in the fourth dream from The White Door

[lunar egret]

But he goes for interrigation after theater

[azure bay]

Initially, before Paradox I considered Theatre an unreal mind palace depicting events that happened elsewhere.

However Paradox as well as TPW made me think that it's more likely to be real because we had an actual mind palace reference as well as a different perspective on the events showing roughly the same things.

But recently, when asked about how Bob survived the shot the devs said something vague about a dreamscape.

It confirms nothing but makes me doubt the reality again.

However if the shot WAS real it was made in Owl controlled environment. It was a part of his plan.

and @honest brook I'd appreciate you checking the dm's

[lunar egret]

So maybe the bartender was really Mr. Owl

[azure bay]

no, he was really Mr. Crow

[lunar egret]

But he should have been older looking by that time

[honest brook]

He drank the Elixir

[azure bay]

technically, we may've seen him older in The Mill before that

[lunar egret]

And btw why does Mr. Crow sounds like a corrupted soul ?

[azure bay]

So he's either able to alter his appearance (or idk, Owl made a dream) or the elixir effects didn't wear off yet

[azure bay]

my go-to theory was that he was speaking through a sewed-up mouth

[honest brook]

Well yeah, and that's probably because he drank the Elixir

[azure bay]

however the devs seemingly said that he's able to change his voice

[lunar egret]

Oh cool

And does he really speaks to laura through phone or is it just laura perceive like that because that's the things he says to her corrupted soul in mill ?

[azure bay]

I'm almost sure that it was Laura's soul speaking from winter

the phone was not only silent there but also had time travel machinery connected

and when the voice says to find them in the past, we find Laura

[lunar egret]

Wait

Is winter 1981 real ?

[azure bay]

well, if you ask me, all cubes are real.

If you ask whether winter was like that from the beginning... probably?

The cubes are supposed to be exact copies of real events unless altered from outside. Even the memory traveler is seemingly unable to change things on their own because they seemingly don't remember the world outside the cube. (Unless Laura could bypass it by being corrupted or had help form outside).

At the very least I'm almost certain that something happened on winter 1981 and Laura's soul had a memory of it

[lunar egret]

But didn't she died ?

[azure bay]

she did but why wouldn't a corrupted soul have memories of its own?

in fact, we have one in Paradise

Caroline's memory of her own funeral

[lunar egret]

Oh right

I thought that these memories is that the corrupted souls trying to remember their memories through cubes

[azure bay]

that's not wrong

it's just that corrupted souls have cubes too

[lunar egret]

I see

What is the purpose of the white door organization ?

[honest brook]

I think it's to extract cubes

[azure bay]

Cube/corrupted soul research. Possibly memory extraction in a populated city

and good ol' psychiatry

[lunar egret]

They seemed like they were trying to insert bob's memories to his body again and reverse the corruption

[azure bay]

that, also cure his depression and for some reason preserve memories of Laura

I don't get why having her in Bob's head was so important

[lunar egret]

I beleive Laura is a special human

[azure bay]

yes, she's important but why in Bob's head?

they didn't seem to extract his memories, on the contrary as you pointed out

[lunar egret]

I thought his memories was already out

[azure bay]

exactly

either since Theatre or at least Case 23

[lunar egret]

Memories of Laura was so important to lake

So maybe the memories that also involves Laura is important too

But thst didn't explains why they were putting them back

[azure bay]

memories of Laura were important for 2 reasons

1. to feed the lake just like with any other cubes

2. because they still contain memories of William's elixir

[lunar egret]

But they also needed her memories for the golden cube

For some reason

[honest brook]

But would Bob's memories of Laura still also contain the elixir?

[azure bay]

that's exactly because there was elixir

[azure bay]

I wouldn't expect that

that's why I'm still confused

[lunar egret]

To me Laura was importsnt because she was "something else" as she was supposed to reach enlightment. Even though the word enlightment is used for people becoming hybrids normally in life I beleive it is used for escaping the samsara and no longer reecearnating.

But that's probably wrong

Since it's not the case in rusty lake games

[royal notch]

It happened in TPW.

[lunar egret]

Oh right

[azure bay]

The word enlightenment appears to have many meanings in Rusty Lake.

The one that matters for Owl and his guinea pigs is probably about becoming a hybrid.

In other senses Laura isn't that special in that regard

And I don't even expect her to become a hybrid unless we'll get an alternate ending

[lunar egret]

Getting the full elixir or becoming god is what dale is gonna become
This is a theory but even though the cubes showed dale to Mr. Owl. Mr. Owl tried for Laura to reach that state because Mr. Crow told dale that his place was taken but I guess laura failed and they got Dale instead but even so in the paradox they let Dale to choose for who to live.

But they already needed two people for elixir or whatever this rituel is

[honest brook]

We don't know for sure if it was Dale or Laura who became enlightened yet

In Underground Blossom, there's an achievement where we can see her going up the elevator as well

[lunar egret]

Maybe both but different universes

Different outcomes of paradox

[azure bay]

I wouldn't use the term "full" because it was mentioned only under the context of having a low concentration extract

"The place is taken" is likely about a free winner place in RL MH&F

In Paradox Dale choses not that. Apparently both of them live in the end and both take a trip to the hotel

[azure bay]

we're getting a lot of hints that it may be Dale. There are some you could see on Laura's side but I don't think it's about that specific ritual

I really expect Dale to be the one unless we get more endings

[honest brook]

I think that too, with how Dale feels like the main character, and we haven't even seen Laura's journey on the elevator. It seems very much like they're focusing on Dale for a reason. I'm just saying that we don't know with certainty.

And how we see Dale in the cube at the end of Hotel

[azure bay]

fair, I guess. I just prefer putiing it like "it's likely Dale"

[azure bay]

After UB I'm not sure that specific thing hints at his win. Laura took the same journey and the difference with Dale is that games about the one of his were coming out next

[lunar egret]

Or maybe It is Dale and Mr. Crow was just testing him in paradox since he was obsessed with solving this case

[azure bay]

I don't follow. Could you please give more context? When would that happen in relation to other games?

[lunar egret]

Maybe Dale was already the one to become Godlike and even though he was given a choice in paradox It was all for his personel growth. And Mr. Crow was trying to trigger that.

[azure bay]

I think the mind of the future makes it clear that it's yet to happen

besides, Paradox takes place while Dale is connected to the golden cube machine with his VR helmet

and after that both he and Laura eventually get to the hotel

[lunar egret]

But how

One should die

Even though laura is already death

[azure bay]

I think they revived her so she could properly die again

although I wouldn't expect that before because in Paradise Caroline and Jakob had no problem with that

or maybe it's because they were both dead?

[lunar egret]

Can you explain it a little more ?

[azure bay]

about Paradise?

[lunar egret]

About this part

[azure bay]

Jakob and Caroline had an elixir

the family sacrificed Jakob to be enlightened and he was supposed to stay dead (or prly be reborn as smth normal)

but Caroline intervened in the last moment, came to him to the purgatory, brought her memories, extracted elixir elements from them as they are in her book and made them react together

then Jakob is Mr. Owl

[lunar egret]

And did the others also become hybrids ?

[azure bay]

They did

I'm betting on that's because they sacrificed a special person on a special day

[lunar egret]

Yeah because 1 person died and 6 other is enlightened

And she also coexist with her son

[azure bay]

I don't think so

Owl identifies himself as Jakob and has no knowledge of how to make Caroline's elixir

even her own book says that one is supposed to die

[lunar egret]

Yeah that makes more sense

[azure bay]

maybe we've seen how elixir works on spiritual level

transfering "soul energy" from one person to the other

but that's just speculation

[lunar egret]

Did no one achived true elixir yet ?

[azure bay]

again, I think "full" elixir is any elixir that isn't a shitty extract from The Cave.

This term was never ever used again

and there's no other indication that there's some super elixir everyone is after

[lunar egret]

I thought this full elixir thing is what dale is gonna have and become litterally immortal

And the ones they drink isn't full because they are demigods

[azure bay]

not sure immortality is possible in general. No one is truly immortal in the OG samsara.

Besides, the reason behind the elixir's false immortality is likely that you gradually shit elixir particles out.

I have a different theory as of why Dale's destined to surpass everyone

The dog, Aldous and Dale have more or less the same elixir but the results are different.

I think I figured out the reason

[lunar egret]

I mean in real samsara you can become god but the real problem with it is staying in that state

[azure bay]

yes, you are still mortal

your pleasures are bound to eventually end

and thus you suffer

[lunar egret]

But technicially you are immortal you can just become mortal again

[lunar egret]

Can you tell more

[azure bay]

The dog is an unconscious animal, so it gets the base package of prolonged life.

Aldous was a human with some basic human consciousness (even jackass Gerard had it) so in addition to long life they became asuras with some magic powers

Dale, unlike any other, has advanced mentors that put him through lessons and challenges. He's getting "a higher state of consciousness" and thus he gets long life and premium powers

[lunar egret]

I see

That makes sense

[azure bay]

and still, it's a theory that may turn out wrong

[lunar egret]

So what's going on with Harvey ?

I thought he was a parrot in the start

[azure bay]

I hope nothing

and UB is just a metaphor mess

unless they have a damn good explanation that doesn't create plot holes

[lunar egret]

Was he a human at past ?

[azure bay]

everyone was statistically a human some time in the past.

Was he a human before becoming a hybrid? Probably not?

we've seen him as a parrot in Paradise

unless he's time traveling or alternatively he turned into a human and only then was enlightened

[lunar egret]

So I beleived when an animal gets elixir they becomr like harvey and my explanition for the dog was that dog drank the elixir that was put together by james so it was a not really good working one

[azure bay]

in such scenario I'd rather bet on Harvey's uniqueness

or a unique way of enlightenment

[lunar egret]

Mr Bat also always felt like an animal

But I'm not sure

[azure bay]

the devs said he was human

and I don't believe it was him in The Cave. Too small and too inconsiderate of his higherups

[lunar egret]

I beleive it was like that because he was abondoned for years since the outbreak at hotel so he did go a little weirder

But I don't know about the size it seemed normal to me

[azure bay]

We see his projection in Paradox around the same time and he's ok

[azure bay]

it is normal. The thing is Mr. Bat was able to block a door with his body

[lunar egret]

I did looked to it just now

And he seems in enough size to be Mr Bat

[azure bay]

he's blocking a small photo

[lunar egret]

I mean yes but

He is already short

And when I compare him to him holding a potato

It doesn't feel too unlikely

[azure bay]

the photo is even smaller

[lunar egret]

If he is not Mr Bat then what is he

He is too big to be a bat

[azure bay]

I bet on it being just a bat akin to pigeon in HB and boar in Paradise.

And big bats exist

https://tenor.com/riiLk3LRa0o.gif

[lunar egret]

I did some measuring

It's not very scientific but

A door is usually 200 cm tall

And in comparison Mr bat is 3/8 of the door in his crouched form

So he should be 75 cm tall when crouching

And I did compared the bat in cave to the moth he eats and to the card

And he was actually taller than 75 cm

Wait give me sec

[azure bay]

another big problem with that, we have no definitive confirmation whether asuras can turn into animals

[lunar egret]

I did compare him to dale since we kinda know his height because of his actor david bowles

And Mr bat was like 135 cm when standing

So he must be like 80 cm when chroucing

[azure bay]

I wouldn't say he is crouching when in "bat" form

[lunar egret]

Oh

Right

[azure bay]

the body weight doesn't facilitate knee bending when upside down

[lunar egret]

But like I said

He was close to 120 cm in cave

[azure bay]

I don't trust this evaluation. I don't think these measurements are possible in Rusty Lake. And if they were, you don't take perspective into consideration

we have other examples of animals looking like familiar asuras

and a bat is not out of place in a cave

and it doesn't act like it knows us

if anything it's an animal you feed to get something you want

[lunar egret]

Yeah okey

It's just the potato scene in hotel show us how bat like and violant Mr. Bat is. So it didn't feel odd to see him like that in cave

[azure bay]

Not towards his masters

[wanton heart]

Should Steam collectibles be taken into consideration? Because the description for The Cave Moth emote is "Mr. Bat's favourite snack."

[lunar egret]

Btw how does this work ?

[azure bay]

ok, I guess it is Mr. Bat

unless Mr. Bat loves moths too

[azure bay]

asset reuse or visual reference

[carmine field]

the pigeon in Harvey's Box, the boar in Paradise, the deer in Case 23

[azure bay]

the deer in Case 23 doesn't look like Mr. Deer

[errant estuary]

however, it does transform into his corrupted form

[azure bay]

but the pigeon and the boar don't

[errant estuary]

true

plus the boar appeared long before uncle gerry became mr boar

[lunar egret]

Did harvey really died ?

[azure bay]

no, the souls just tickled him

[vivid bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-you-know-it-was-very-unclear-gif-16840330

[azure bay]

jokes aside, we've seen him overwhelmed, we've seen him lying down and we've seen Mr. Owl casting some magic on him

looks dead to me

[lunar egret]

Mr. Owl casting spell ?

[vivid bridge]

yeah

when Harvey died (?) we see his body and Owl doing his iconic t-pose

[errant estuary]

if he did, then he got better

[azure bay]

srly, I wouldn't expect anyone to survive a corrupted mob

[lunar egret]

So laura didn't kill him

[azure bay]

when?

[lunar egret]

Seasons

[vivid bridge]

no

[azure bay]

it's an unrelated topic because Owl resurrected him

[vivid bridge]

we see him after her death in the mill

so Laura killing him only happened in the seasons memory, not the real world

[azure bay]

UB confirms that Harvey time travels. I see no problem in him accompanying Laura while other-him helping Owl

another problem is, memories are supposed to copy the world around the cube unless some external changes

and I see none in Seasons

unless Laura's corrupted soul is free from forgeting past mistakes

[errant estuary]

laura was also of questionable stability in the autumn of 71

it’s possible her fear of doing something horrible tainted that

[lunar egret]

Isn't that memory is her death memory

[errant estuary]

yeah

[azure bay]

she's supposed to be dead by then with the blood-covered knife, the screaming parrot, the news report and the funeral card

[errant estuary]

that too

[azure bay]

unless it's all symbolic

[errant estuary]

im guessing it is her first memories as a corrupted soul

[lunar egret]

Maybe corrupted soul's memories are a little twisted than others

[errant estuary]

yeah

[vivid bridge]

We don't even know when Seasons happens. For all we know, its memory is also tampered

[errant estuary]

also, if she was that bloody, id imagine she’s delirious

[errant estuary]

seasons is from about 64 to 81

[azure bay]

I'm dead sure it's 1981 with no clear trace of Owl or his subordinates who usually do such things

[lunar egret]

If she died in that memory than she must have killed harvey after that and the only instance she might have tried that is in mill which she also attacks harvey

[azure bay]

these are memories

[errant estuary]

i know

[azure bay]

but what's the point of their recollection?

[vivid bridge]

I meant the actual game. Birthday happens in 72 despite the memory being in 30 whatever

[errant estuary]

probably 81

[azure bay]

The timeline of Seasons desperately needs clarifications. For instance, Laura isn't supposed to be corrupted in fall 1971 because Crow corrupted her in 1972

Unless we don't know something

[errant estuary]

99% certain

[vivid bridge]

my hate for seasons' early game weirdness is almost as big as my hate for UB's stupid time travel garbage

[azure bay]

the thing is, Seasons don't seem particularly weird

[errant estuary]

personal reading of seasons fall and case 23 is this:
laura is dying, bleeding, delirious
everything from the tv report to the funeral card to the eye is blood loss
she is gone for a while, rotting in that apartment until the discovery and investigation

[azure bay]

but the card and the newsflash are real

they are seen by other characters

[errant estuary]

yes

but is it exactly then?

idk

[azure bay]

I mean, you don't expect things seen by a delirious person being confirmed by another party

[errant estuary]

alternatively, her seeing a strange premonition feels like the most watsonian

even if that’s maybe weird

[lunar egret]

Any memory after her death is I think representations

[azure bay]

no, corrupted souls pretty much have memories

[errant estuary]

i kinda wonder how long it took for people to notice that laura was dead

[azure bay]

and memory cubes are objective

[lunar egret]

Robert and Laura seems very unstable when corrupted but william and caroline seems more normal

They litterally remember a lot

[azure bay]

Laura calms down in winter

[lunar egret]

But we seen robert seeing things that are not really real

[azure bay]

what things and what does it mean for us?

[lunar egret]

It was maybe because white door played with his memories

[errant estuary]

first becoming a corrupted soul seems very painful

[lunar egret]

But he sees himself shooting himself and going to the pub thing is just him getting arrested

[errant estuary]

so it’s likely they were lashing out some

[lunar egret]

But he wasn't even corrupted by then

Oh

[errant estuary]

he was likely in the pub, and then shot himself

[lunar egret]

Did he shot himself ?

[errant estuary]

and that caused brain damage

[errant estuary]

yes

[lunar egret]

And he didn't died ?

[errant estuary]

miraculously not

or, at least, he was able to be revived

[azure bay]

let's not confuse memories and cubes

what we see in TWD is Bob's subjective perspective

[lunar egret]

But do they really arrested a guy who shot himself ?

[azure bay]

while the cubes contain faithful and objective recreations of events and possibly even worlds

when you look into a cube from outside you see how things rolled out for real

[errant estuary]

if bob was first arrested, he likely did it because in his state, he becaume convinced it was all his fault

[azure bay]

when you enter them and adopt someone's perspective you succumb to their delusions and biases

[errant estuary]

if the shooting happened at first, he was likely acting strange, and became a suspect

[azure bay]

no, I don't think so

[errant estuary]

if

[azure bay]

whatever happened in Theatre, it put him in Owl's control

and in Case 23 he brings Dale memories required for Owl's test

I don't think it's a coincidence

[errant estuary]

interesting

[lunar egret]

I think if Mr. Owl did something to bob ıt wasn't fully because of that

[errant estuary]

the fact that the blue lady was there when he did it, and he remembered her singing being a catalyst

it feels like a potential character parallel

[lunar egret]

It's more likely he needed his memories so I beleive they tried to corrupt him

Since owl gives him gun

[azure bay]

what do you mean?

[azure bay]

Crow*

[errant estuary]

🤝
“gun”

[azure bay]

they never corrupted people to get their cubes. It's rather the other way around. Corruption is a possible unfortunate side effect

[lunar egret]

Yeah like you said before, even if he did shot himself it was done under a controlled space by Mr. Owl. So they weren't simply trying to corrupt him but rather was experimenting on him.

[azure bay]

I think it's more like a party of familiar faces.

The boss, Ron Burgundy, Dale, donuts, the plant, coffee

• possibly some members of the bird crew including Owl and his muscle

to indicate the real master mind

[errant estuary]

i mean that she was in the theatre

at the moment he shot himself

[azure bay]

It Theatre Bob shot himself during a different play and I'm not sure the devs thought the "real" events through.

Besides, Pheasant there has her own story behind the scenes

initially she was meant to be Laura

or rather an actress looking like Laura

I think one of the reasons for the change was Laura being featured in a different play and that Pheasant is already associated with Rusty Lake Theatre

[errant estuary]

it’s kinda funny that she is just hanging out

[azure bay]

in The Lost Soul you mean?

[errant estuary]

in both the theatre and the lost soul

everyone is fighting for their fucking lives, and she is just

https://tenor.com/view/club-penguin-ghosthy-hi-hello-wave-gif-10017453

yanno?

[azure bay]

I think in the actual Theatre the show was over after the shot was made (if it was made)

and in The Lost Soul everybody is like that

[errant estuary]

it’s also very amusing to imagine she got special treatment

[lunar egret]

The Lost Soul really exists ?

[royal notch]

I don't think so, it must have been a fever dream. We literally witness a bullet becoming a car, and an enlightened detective that shouldn't be yet.

[lunar egret]

If it was just a dream how Bob saw Dale like that

Something Dale will become

[azure bay]

2 options

either it's a "coincidence" mixed with asset reuse

(they needed Dale to fit in the party and VanderDeer was a good option available)

or VanderDeer is a guest from the future more or less like he is in Paradox

[rancid slate]

TWD resuses many Paradox assets

[rancid slate]

You can make him shoot himself anytime by simply knowing the cocktails and making the Bloody Mary earlied

[rancid slate]

Id say yes cuz theres no reason for it to not exist 🗣 And TPW also plays the same music again I think

In the radio

[rancid slate]

I think it was a disguise 🐖

[rancid slate]

While barman Aldous is the one to induce Bob, Imo Bob was the one making the decision there and the shot was not part of Mr. Owl's plan

Far I would say was giving him a suicide option to make his depression grow even further so he'd have no choice

🚪🚶‍♂️

Brown Door!!

[azure bay]

But you are not supposed to

[azure bay]

There is. It's a fever dream that combines existing images.

The music exists, some disco TV show or commercial exists, people dancing there exist, The Lost Soul doesn't

[azure bay]

You are contradicting yourself.

"The shot isn't a part of Owl's plan, it's Bob's own choice. But wait it is his plan to strip Bob off his freedom of choice"

Either way, Owl's right hand right in the middle of Owl's turf strongly suggests a vulnerable person Owl's interested in to shoot themselves

Then they end up on the street with no memory and the only tie to the reality is Owl's calling card he planted in advance

Don't tell me it's not an intricate scheme

I'd even say that it was exactly the solution Crow really meant. In the end it turned out good for Bob

[lunar egret]

How did Albert create a golden cube ?

[vivid bridge]

plot convenience

I guess you just need a lot of energy

It may also be a special situation due to the whole cubical device thing

I don't actually know why the cube is even gold to begin with

I get that its a future cube but not only does that not really matter, we've seen regular cubes that depict the future

the only reason its gold is because at this point in the story, golden cubes are an established thing so the games can be like "waow a golden cube. Isn't that awesome?"

[royal notch]

Probably thanks to energy managing to travel through time. With the use of the cubical device it's been possibile to transfer it from the moment that the new cube depicts; but then it's unclear how the main one (from the white room) was created.

[rancid slate]

A fusion of 3 different cubes is atleast more acceptable than a cube made of energy

[visual coral]

Technically all cubes are made of energy, brain electricity if you will
So making a cube out of electric charge is not that strange
Making a Golden Cube is tho

[royal notch]

Debatable. The TPW cube seems way more straightforward to me: energy that travels through time. But what does "fusion" mean? Why just using all 3 kinds should work? The white room's one it's more difficult to understand because of the bigger amount of unanswered questions.

[rancid slate]

Considering the GC has the Elixir symbol, it probably selected mostly Elixir stuff out of Laura's memories

[frosty wolf]

what does the infinity symbol mean next to william's elixir?

[rancid slate]

Eternal Life I guess

[carmine field]

yep, I don't think it's right to say that the golden cube is the fusion between any white, black and blue cubes

the contents of the black and white cubes seem to matter a lot

[royal notch]

Its creation process remains unclear nonetheless.

[azure bay]

dude, it's just like Caroline's elixir.

• Take cubes with memories about elixir elements
• extract them
• fuse them together
• profit

the future energy is the oddball here

as well as a golden cube containing a world

the book in The Cave was rather direct about the golden cube being the elixir or at least tightly connected to it and the way it was created made sense

it's as if TPW threw it all out the window and presented its golden cube as something completely different

[royal notch]

While completely similar to the others, making them more "in-line". A cube with its own memory; seems good enough to me. Especially when no golden cube has been seen in Paradise or ever after. If it was that clear, the Vanderboom brothers have been real dumbasses in not writing a single ingredient down.

[azure bay]

they did and James was able to follow their directions just fine

it's Owl and Crow who screwed up with retrieving that knowledge afterwards

[royal notch]

I don't think so, otherwise they wouldn't need Laura!

[azure bay]

what's your reasoning? I don't see a contradiction between failing to get William's journals after James died and needing Laura's memories

[royal notch]

Or better, her memories.

[azure bay]

in fact it's because they failed they need her

speaking of golden cubes in Paradise, there is a big cube in the center of Caroline's diagram. All the arrows pointing at it. I bet it's supposed to be golden and I think we didn't see it in the end because the elixir was consumed on a spiritual level with no need for a vessel

[royal notch]

I agree with this last sentence, but the contradiction i see is that if James was able to recreate the elixir, having the full journal, then the hotel gang would have been fully able to create the golden cube from the elixir elements just fine, right from 1859! Mr Owl should know that from 1797 (right?). Why the hell forgetting about it until now?

[azure bay]

I think they didn't forget. I think they somehow lost it

Mary burning these damn books out of grief. Albert taking them for himself. The bird CS deliberately hiding them from the bird crew

the notes existed

it's a fact

they were successfully used once

it's a fact too

why Owl and Crow didn't is a good question

but saying that notes didn't exist is denying the reality

[royal notch]

Since those weren't used, in fact, i use to say those weren't complete. But that's another speculation as good as Mary's grief.

[azure bay]

James figured it out. Aldous being more experienced and having more resources would figure it out even more so

[royal notch]

We don't know what concotion (?) was in the jar at the start as well in the 4 already prepared little vials. But then again someone could see that as pure gameplay.

[azure bay]

I'd say more

the book in Paradox film strongly suggests that the brothers already had a nearly complete formula left by Caroline

their names are on the same page as her diagram

[royal notch]

In this case i say nothing more than "bruh", because the overall scheme becomes really hilarious.

Losing a world-changing recipe by the hands of an unknowing grief-filled family becomes a bit sad story.

[azure bay]

the more I look into this series the more I think that Owl doesn't nearly always know what he's doing

They've lost the elixir

they've created the guests and let them escape

they tried to save Laura but failed miserably

and created yet another corrupted soul

they let Sarah sabotage their TWD related operations greatly

and even missed a homicidal maniac being kept in their facilities and eventually resurrected using their own resources

I think the last one will come back to bite Owl's or Dale's ass whoever is in charge in the 80s

[vivid bridge]

I'm sorry, i'm confused. When was it stated that the hotel crew lost the elixir recipe?

Because they had to extract it from the dog?

[azure bay]

it's not stated but I see no other excuse why they need to milk that dog and James didn't

[vivid bridge]

I suppose so

But I don't think thats why they want Laura

[azure bay]

I'd say it's at least one of the reasons

and it's crucial for everything to work

[vivid bridge]

Owl doesn't even care for the regular elixir, he just wants the super duper god elixir for Dale/Laura

[azure bay]

I don't believe a super duper elixir is even a thing

it's based on only 1 word used in only 1 game under the context of lack of resources

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but the goal is to make a deva, while the regular elixir only makes asuras

[azure bay]

if the "full elixir" was mentioned elsewhere or even in the book of The Cave I wouldn't even argue

[azure bay]

I think it's not about super elixir but a state of the mind

the dog, aldous and Dale all basically have the same elixir of William but the results are different

and the state of mind correlates with the bonuses they get

a mindless dog gets a minimum pack

a basic sentient human gets some powers

and a mentored groomed human gest extra powers

the elevator trip is the biggest difference between Dale and Jakob

so I bet it's what will be the deciding factor

[vivid bridge]

we'll see in 10 years when they finally make that final game

[covert wyvern]

I'll put that in the calendar!

[vivid bridge]

thanks Damy

[rancid slate]

@azure bay which books are the same? The ones in Paradise, Cave and Roots. Arent they supposed to be the same? I know that the one in Paradox is basically the same as in Paradise, but about Cave and Roots?

[azure bay]

Cave and Paradise/Paradox

the same cover most of the time, the same patterns on pages, the mix of contents in the movie

it was written by those who've been taking care of the lake

and the book in Roots is a different matter

personal notes of the alchemist brother(s)

[rancid slate]

Lmao

If theres a mistake he can make, he will make all of them

[azure bay]

well, he's not all useless

there were successes and big ones at that

[rancid slate]

Still waiting for him to become Mr. Fish

[azure bay]

NO!!!! I'M STILL TIRED OF FIGHTING "OWL WILL BECAME A MERMAID" BELIEVERS!!! DON'T MAKE ME GO THROUGH THAT AGAIN !!!!

[rancid slate]

Mr. Mermaid?

Thats even better

[azure bay]

NONONONoooo!!! It evolves!!

[rancid slate]

So thats why he didnt got Laura on 1969

The entire bird crew was inside the box lol

[lunar egret]

What's is bestkept memory ?

[visual coral]

It's a company just like the White Door that is most likely owned by Mr Owl and existing in the 2000s and even in 2023. They specialise in memory preservation, and extraction
Last ARG was revolving around it

[lunar egret]

Why did we see albert in there

[visual coral]

Probably because Rose works there and that is where she resurrected Albert

He was probably hoping to get to the Lake, but only Rose actually succeeded

So he's still trapped in the cube i guess

[honest brook]

It also kinda feels like a teaser for his return

[visual coral]

yep

I wonder if he's gonna be involved in the Day of the Lake and screw something up for Owl

[lunar egret]

What are timepieces ?

[royal notch]

That's impossible, the day will come 12 years before.

[royal notch]

Basically watches with necklaces. In Roots they serve a higher purpose, firstly as kinds of magic locks. Other uses are unclear (UB really sucks in storytelling).

[visual coral]

True. Maybe later down line

[visual coral]

Some magical items that could be created by the alchemist brothers and are designed to somehow protect it's owner

[lunar egret]

Protect them from what ?

[azure bay]

They refer to Rose's letter telling that somehow one of them was to protect Laura while she was gone.

We don't know anything beyond that

[lunar egret]

The moment she lost it she started to have some mental issues that eveantually led to suicide

[azure bay]

not sure

she was prescribed Prozac in 1964 and I always had an impression that Laura met Bob some time after that

but honestly, we don't really know when exactly they started dating

[azure bay]

and that one is an interesting thought to say the least

[lunar egret]

Okay

Another quastion

Do eilenders become asuras at the day of the lake ?

Since wiki has birth dates for them

[azure bay]

I'm 95% sure of it

[azure bay]

these dates are weird

we know for sure that the guests used to be Eilanders

and the only real opportunity for their enlightenment was Paradise

I've been pondering on that but I have no satisfying theory that doesn't look far-fetched

[lunar egret]

It was really hard to become enlightened at past

But I guess that changed after vanderboom brothers found the elixir

Since they can extract it from dog poop

And their birth dates are after this event

But even so it would not be rrally possible

There is a 40 year gap

And Margeret would be dead by then

[azure bay]

they aren't. If their ages were canon Pheasant would be 12 by the time James found elixir

[azure bay]

so my guess is that these dates previously posted as Hotel promotion in RL blog are silently retconned.

I generally feel that the Eilanders were written into existence pretty clumsily.

Most of the guests don't feel like their Eilander counterparts at all.

as if RL prioritized interesting characters with their dynamics rather than consistency with previous installments

The Eilanders are rather neat in all honesty. But I'd prefer them being more connected to the established world outside the vacuum of Paradise

[lunar egret]

But it still feels odd that they all become asuras at the day of the lake

Even though it was a special day I feel like there has to be a sacrifice

[azure bay]

Jakob was that sacrifice

he wasn't supposed to become Owl

he died and whatever force was in charge accepted his death

it was Caroline who outsmarted the system

she enlightened Jakob's soul after his body burnt to ashes

but before it lost his memories and personality

[lunar egret]

So caroline's sacrifice was concluded too

It was just a little delayed

[azure bay]

I suppose both her and Jakob operated on a different level of existence

they were both dead

[lunar egret]

That's weird

A corrupted soul enlightening a corrupted soul

[azure bay]

Jakob was never corrupted

he was just a soul

[lunar egret]

Don't humans just reincernate when they die ?

[azure bay]

it takes time

otherwise many events depicted wouldn't be possible

the biggest example is Laura's corruption

if she passed on her soul would take memories along with it and there would be nothing to extract and nothing to corrupt

[lunar egret]

I see

To elixir it doesn't matter what you are

[azure bay]

It does but it's complicated

the devs said that there was some form of elixir even in Seasons

I bet Laura's soul used it

[lunar egret]

But who was the sacrifice ?

[azure bay]

I know nothing beyond it being there

and this particular form may work differently

[lunar egret]

And wasn't laura the sacrifice for dale ?

[azure bay]

she supposedly was but it doesn't matter here

before she was a sacrifice for Crow

and I don't see it preventing her from using elixir again and again

[lunar egret]

But

She was a corrupted soul the second time

[azure bay]

so what?

[lunar egret]

She should change at some point

[azure bay]

change in what way and why?

[lunar egret]

If not then corrupted souls can be used for infinite enlightment

Except they don't know who's gonna enlightened

[lunar egret]

Well

The quastion is what happens when a corrupted soul dies

[azure bay]

normally corrupted souls don't die

I wonder what happened to Caroline though

but Laura, she's a different case

Every positive transformation she experienced along her multiple lives took a great effort

after William was reborn with a tree and 10 sacrifices she was a clean slate free to participate in the elixir lottery again

if not for her other death

after that Mr. Owl orchestrated something to revive her and it's likely not something any regular Joe could pull out

[lunar egret]

When ?

[azure bay]

some time after Dale's departure to the Hotel

We don't know for sure what happened but she IS alive

we've been through that

[lunar egret]

But how do we know mr. Owl did that

[azure bay]

he's the one who needs her and pulls all the strings related to that

even if it wasn't him personally he anticipated it and could create the necessary conditions

[lunar egret]

For what

I thought they were done with her

[azure bay]

everyone did until we saw her alive and going to the hotel

we may think whatever we want but we cannot argue with the obvious

[lunar egret]

Yeah she is something special for sure

The lake belongs to her now

[azure bay]

I personally don't think so

not yet

[lunar egret]

At least she says it like that

[azure bay]

I think she says that 9 years after she took the elevator

Owl doesn't seem to know about Roses' tree

and thus he couldn't predict Laura's resurrection by the blossom and incorporate in his plans

besides, there are contradicting dialogues between these 2 endings

"My mother is there for me, I can live another life with no sorrow" doesn't fit well with "where did she go? [I'm wasting my life on a deadly lottery]" from the elevator ending

as if her character arc was rewound

or it was us who went back in time

(within the lake where time does not exist)

[lunar egret]

I think that happened because every stage of laura's life was coming back to her

[azure bay]

no, the normal ending was grand and satisfying, there's no need to overcomplicate it

and it better suits Seasons

that take place much further down the timeline with an ending where she lives another life within the cubes

and looks happy

[lunar egret]

But isn't that what happened or did I understand it wrong ?

She become uncorrupted

[rancid slate]

She dies and revives 2 times

UB ending would be the 2nd

[lunar egret]

And how does this work ?

[azure bay]

more so, her trauma was resolved

[azure bay]

I imagine it as follows:

She comes to the lake, finds her smart and spiritual mother who teaches her how to use cubes, how to build time phones, how to get elixir (?), maybe shares some magic and Seasons happen inside cubes. She prevents her death there and stays to live.

[late shard]

Sorry for jumping in but if Seasons happen inside cubes, would it mean it's some sort of simulation and she doesn't really die there? Just trying to understand 😅

[rancid slate]

She did died, thats why Seasons is happening in the first place

[azure bay]

The Past Within have shown that the cubes contain realities and the reality is just another cube supposedly floating in the lake.

It's all real but it's as if everything happens in different timelines

[rancid slate]

Different timelines that can also affect the "main" timeline

[lunar egret]

I'm so confused right now

[azure bay]

what's so confusing?

[lunar egret]

Firstly

[late shard]

Ohh okay gotcha, thanks

[azure bay]

if you know the trick that is

[lunar egret]

What did you mean there by different realities ?

[rancid slate]

Thank god Rusty Lake does simple timetravels

[azure bay]

as I said, it's like timelines. There's your home timeline you can't (normally) change and there are timelines you can change and stay inside them if you choose

[lunar egret]

Like seasons ?

[azure bay]

like Seasons

[lunar egret]

And Albert says we are all trapped in cubes

What's up with that ?

[azure bay]

I think that's exactly what I'm talking about

when you live inside a cube you have a limited control over your llife

[lunar egret]

But isn't the memories in cubes only for corrupted souls to live

[azure bay]

We've got pretty much alive Dale going through Birthday and Theatre

we've got up to 4 self-inserts in Rusty Lake Untold

nothing about them being corrupted

[lunar egret]

Okey let's get to the core of it

What are cubes ?

[azure bay]

I think they are windows into timelines

maybe created by a human mind

but not sure

[lunar egret]

Aren't they memories

[azure bay]

kinda are, kinda aren't

[lunar egret]

In every one of them thes start by saying what do I remember

[azure bay]

except for The Past Within

where you have an independent Past Rose and independent Past Albert

it's a memory about Past Rose

[lunar egret]

That should be because of the cubic device

[azure bay]

no because it works just fine without it

[lunar egret]

When did we see that

[azure bay]

just think about it

the supposedly "real" cubical device was operating only in the 1st chapter

when the black cube was out Past Rose was still inside and was doing fine

and even more so, she was actually manipulating the supposedly "real" world via another cube

even providing physical matter

you have no cubical device but something is breaking into your reality

[rancid slate]

Random thing I just thought is that the images that flashes in Lab Station about TPW would be what happened in 1926 in the main timeline

[lunar egret]

But that happened because the future rose inserted the cube into the cubical devicr and established a connection to past and in that past rose also established a connection to the future so that's why they didn't need the black cube to be inserted

[rancid slate]

Since Albert still gets corrupted without the Future instructions, apparently

[azure bay]

why would an unreal Past still exist without a cubical device?

Or here's another thing: in the very end there are just cubes, no devices. And yet they are still in sync and in recursion

[rancid slate]

Isnt the purpose of the Cubical Device not even stated in the game?

[azure bay]

the ending is built on 2 Roses simultaneously entering the other cube and continuously switching places until they merge together

[lunar egret]

But the past part is not a different reality right ?

[rancid slate]

Like, what is actually does

[lunar egret]

Albert was corrupted

[azure bay]

technically it's not but you could argue it's gameplay

[azure bay]

it is a reality

people there think, therefore they are and you can even touch them if you want

but it also can't be the reality

it can't be a literal time travel

the ending would cause a paradox preventing The Past from eventually becoming The Future

Past Rose escaped the cube into the lake

she can't become Future Rose anymore

but it doesn't end there

it happened even before she gave birth to Laura

[lunar egret]

Did she gave birth to laura ?

[azure bay]

I think she did but even if not, she was crucial for her birth

no Rose, no Laura, no story

[lunar egret]

Albert also says they are trapped too

Are they ?

[rancid slate]

Rose isnt

Albert is, I think

[azure bay]

depends on interpretation

[rancid slate]

It isnt really clarified

What happened to them in the ending

[azure bay]

in RL Untold a cube contained a whole floor rather than just a single small room. I think it has to be even bigger and be so for every cube

especially if Laura was to live another life without sorrow

she wouldn't be able to sustain herself in a small room and especially so be happy

and UB acknowledges that TPW happened and will happen

[lunar egret]

So laura changing her past is only in the cube

[azure bay]

yes while her own world could've been changed at some point by someone else without anyone noticing

because in TPW The Future works the same as The Past

[lunar egret]

But she used blue cube

[azure bay]

so?

[lunar egret]

So dale also only changed another reality

[azure bay]

yes

[lunar egret]

What was the reason for that

[azure bay]

for what exactly?

[lunar egret]

He saved his family

But will he go back to there ? I think he is still needed in our rrslity

[rancid slate]

He entered the cube and just felt like doing it 👍

[azure bay]

Owl needed him to overcome his fears and trauma

[rancid slate]

It was probably part of Mr. Owl's test as he appears in the 1966 and talks directly to Dale

[azure bay]

this cube was still seemingly connected to his psyche and influenced his emotional state

turning a black cube white is supposedly a big deal for him

[alpine hollow]

I haven't paid attention to the story of Rusty Lake for a while now. And I had a question in my mind I never knew the answer

what properties has the lake?

I remember Mr.Owl has a plan that includes the lake and he said it has special properties, what are these exactly?

[rancid slate]

We dont know 👽

We only know that theres no time inside the Lake

The trees are possibly other people that became trees

[alpine hollow]

like the bunny guy from birthday?

[rancid slate]

He didnt turned into a tree

He turnes into the leaves of the tree

[alpine hollow]

and what's the meaning of turning into a tree?

I know that Laura turned into one

[rancid slate]

She didnt

[alpine hollow]

oh

[rancid slate]

Have you played Underground Blossom? Or The Past Within?

[alpine hollow]

yes

I'm talking what I remember

[rancid slate]

So, Rose becomes a tree and shes say that she is enlighentened. Which could mean that the Tree is one of the realms of the Samsara Wheel

[alpine hollow]

AH ROSE

yeas it's rose

sorry

[rancid slate]

Which realm exactly, idk

[alpine hollow]

the Albert's daughter

[rancid slate]

Naraka is represented by a Red Forest, but is usually related to bad things and Rose's case seem to be a good thing instead

[alpine hollow]

what's Samsara? I assume thats related to resurrection

[rancid slate]

Samsara means Rebirth

[floral mauve]

its not rebirth, its the cyle of life

[rancid slate]

The Wheel has 6 Realms:
Deva
Asura (Like Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl)
(Man)
(Animals)
Preta (Corrupted Souls)
Naraka (Red Forest)

[alpine hollow]

for what I understand about the samsara game, the different animals we play are the possible rebirths, because when you rebirth you can rebirth as anything including plants

[floral mauve]

true

[alpine hollow]

but again, how this works, why that happens

[rancid slate]

Past and Future Rose became one

So they turned into a Tree

Why? We dont know

But this probably isnt the case for all Trees

[alpine hollow]

maybe it's a representation, or how the rules of the lake works

[rancid slate]

The other enlightenments were easier to understand

[alpine hollow]

and the fusion of both roses, the final of the games made me a bit confused

like they automatically went to the lake?

[rancid slate]

Eilander family turnes into Asura by sacrificing Mr. Owl
Mr. Owl and Mr. Crow because of the Elixir
Corrupted William into Laura because of Roots

[rancid slate]

The game shows them creating a paradox where each one is inside the other. Than a black a screen and now they are in the Lake

I understand this as literally breaking the time so hard that you go to a timeless place: The Lake and your different times fuse into one (ig)

[alpine hollow]

I thought Mr.owl was save by the Elixir before dying

[rancid slate]

Yeah, that was it

[alpine hollow]

okok I understand more now

just one more question

where did you get the name Asura

never heard of it

[rancid slate]

It appears in the games

But in Sanskrit

असुर

[alpine hollow]

yeah I would never find out

I think I've seen it but don't remember where exactly

[rancid slate]

It appears in Theatre, for example

[alpine hollow]

when I search Asura it shows me a God

are they related?

[rancid slate]

Asura in Rusty Lake could mean demigod or demon

Deva would mean god I suppose

Which would be Dale

[alpine hollow]

Dale a god?

[rancid slate]

Eventually, yes

Thats what hes getting prepared for

[alpine hollow]

I just know he now has a golden cube

for what purpose Idk

but never came to my mind he would became a god

[rancid slate]

According to Cave, the Golden Cube could be/contain William's elixir

[alpine hollow]

this?

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[alpine hollow]

ok let me see what I remember, Laura is William, she started to manifest some behaviors because of that and then committed s#icide ( that was not in mr.owl and Mr.crows plans). They called for Dale to come to the Lake and tested him in the Paradox. They realized he was ready and then they linked him to Laura, proceeding to have the golden cube

did I miss something?

[honest brook]

Laura also seemed to be depressed because Rose left her

[alpine hollow]

can be true

but why dale, why was he the "chosen one"

[honest brook]

I think it's partly because he appeared in the white cube at the end of Hotel

[alpine hollow]

that's doesn't explains much

because Mr.Crow already wanted dale to be the "chosen one" he was there on his birthday

he wanted dale to have this bad memory

he was always there watching over dale

every game where we play as Dale

[honest brook]

That's after Hotel

[alpine hollow]

yes

ok I think I missed something

you're telling me dale, as a grown man was there in the hotel?

[honest brook]

No, the cube showed the future, I believe it showed Mr. Owl that Dale was destined to become a contender

[alpine hollow]

I thought the cubes were memories of the last

past

[honest brook]

Well, that one clearly shows the future, perhaps because of the "time doesn't exist in the lake" thing

[alpine hollow]

that makes sense but I can't remember where that happens

in the game

[honest brook]

At the very end of Hotel

[alpine hollow]

I played hotel like a year ago 😭

when I arrive home I'll search that

do you thing that the only way to convince dale was making him live through bad memories and later then make him have an opportunity (blue cube) to fix them? like convincing him to be on your side

because they don't have much time left, so they need him, but if he has other special capabilities idk