🤔｜theories

[grizzled bluff]

I'm actually going to step in here and say that it doesn't feel like this is theorizing in good faith, Brodnicul

You don't need to agree with each other, but we do expect a certain level of mutual respect and cooperation.

[tribal hedge]

I do. Sorry if understood otherwise.

[grizzled bluff]

Arguing can be fun for theorists and help refine a theory, but statements like "an office can't forge steel" feel like you're not actually looking at the point being made and instead being contrarian. If that wasn't your intention, please look back on your words and try to see what I'm describing
(As a small aside: heavy machinery generally has its parts constructed off site and then put together on site in a room it will never leave. So that's merely one example of how grilling that detail doesn't actually express anything)

This isn't ban worthy or anything like that, but we do try to keep the atmosphere lighthearted around here.

Basically, ask yourself: "What am I arguing? What point am I making?" and "What do I gain from this argument?" and then continue

[azure bay]

Thanks for clarifying that to us. May we continue the discussion?

[grizzled bluff]

Yes, feel free to keep going!

[azure bay]

thank you

I think the clearest example for my point is the memory extraction chamber

the machine is built into the wall

it can't be moved and it requires a lot of energy

in UB it's located behind a relatively mundane blast door and in RLU it's behind a secret passage

these 2 games feature several similar rooms besides that: the aforementioned chem lab, the electrical room and the bedroom which is hidden in UB

That's connected to one of the development philosophies revealed in one of the devlogs

User experience is the center pillar and so the games aren't too confusing, RL follow 2 rules

1. Don't give the player too many options at once

2. Don't leave the objects the player won't interact with

That's basically why there's 1 less cabinet in the cabin in Case 23 in comparison to The Lake

and that's why some games have doors missing

and that's not so much connected to the reality of a given game

usually people separate memories and the reality

that's true that some memories have no doors but there are some that do feature them

like Arles and Birthday

and there are some games with undoubtful reality that don't feature them

notably ch2 of Case 23

so gameplay dictates a lot in this series

and I'd be surprised if it didn't

I always wonder how the story would look if it was a book

I'm glad that RLU somewhat made it happen with its recommended descriptions

[rancid slate]

I wish we had a channel that allows theories

[errant scaffold]

WHAT HAPPENED IN PARADOX? I thought Laura suicided in cube escape seasons, but was she alive? Did Dale’s corrupted soul kill her? I’m so confused

[azure bay]

Laura did kill herself. It's been confirmed in The Cave

Paradox is a dream constructed by Mr. Owl

It seems to have multiple purposes

I have no idea how it's supposed to work but after Underground Blossom it seems that one of them concerning Laura was to make her alive before the ritual of the day of the lake

You should get the secret endings. They are extremely important in Paradox

[wet willow]

what seems to me is that in the film we saw 3 diferents pontions, i thought that only 3 dales had escape from the room "succesfully"

when i saw the film, i notice that after dale fall scared by his sowl, he had already felt and hurt his head

i thought that dale have been there so many times, and scared with his soul so many times

that could explain the mind changing from the 2 chapter and the diferent dales on the forest

as i mentioned 3 diferent potions, so 3 endings, 3 dales that could escape from the paradox

the oders faild or got lost on the forest ||Eeven killing him self||

thats my theory

idk if that makes sence

what do yall think?

[rancid slate]

None the Vials lead to escaping the Paradox

The only ending where he escapes is the Golden Cube one

All "endings" are canon tho, since he is in a Paradox. But the last one would be getting the Golden Cube

[azure bay]

There's a specific chronology of Paradox. Ch1 -> Ch2 -> The Movie. When one of them ends you see the beginning of the next one.

So the vials running out isn't exactly true. If we'd take them just at face value their number is growing. If we think more however, the choice Mr. Crow is talking about makes sense only if there are always 3 vials. Meaning that the devs simply force one of them on us for the specific ending sake.

[wet willow]

i see, so those the vials have somehting related?

[azure bay]

related to what?

[wet willow]

i mean seams right, it explais why he starts the film with his head hurted

but the diferent dales that we see on the ending of Ch2, what does it means

[azure bay]

wow, good eye. Only few people notice that

[wet willow]

to the way he escape?

[wet willow]

i love the deatil level

[azure bay]

I think some of them are Dale from other iterations, some are (somehow) from the (possible?) future (futures?) beyond Paradox. The thing is, only corrupted Dale is able to see them and is visible to them back. They don't see one another.

And I think that's why the ending and the loop itself is possible. And that's basically THE paradox. Dale sees Dale killing Laura

[wet willow]

yeah i got it

[azure bay]

I see 2 ways to end the loop

[wet willow]

hm

i hope "killing himself" wasnt in those 2 ways

[azure bay]

it is because the loop relies on Dale reaching the end, finding a cube, becoming corrupted, going back to kill Laura and help his past self to get the cube

but as soon as the would be killer dies, nobody comes to kill Laura and the cube of Paradox turns white

becomes a good memory

[wet willow]

helping his past, is the green vial?

[azure bay]

no

I mean

[wet willow]

i do not tested it yet

[azure bay]

the cube appears only after corrupted Dale from the future kills Laura

[wet willow]

yes

so it bascally Good Dale need to stop currupted one

than laura do not die

than he escape

[azure bay]

unfortunately by stopping himself before he's corrupted

[wet willow]

ok make more sence, but

if he escape from paradox that way do not mean thar will be 2 dales coexisting?

[azure bay]

where does the second Dale come from?

[wet willow]

good Dale and the curruped Dale

[azure bay]

it's meant to be the same Dale

[wet willow]

😭

[azure bay]

from different points in time

[wet willow]

ok it make sence till dale sees laura dying

[azure bay]

Each time Dale sees a CS killing Laura he sees his future-self he'll become in the next iteration

[wet willow]

oh

i thought dale seeing his CS killing laura was at the same time

but if dale sees the future that means something about the blue cube right

[azure bay]

It's just his CS coming from the future, I guess

[wet willow]

just for me, a dumb thinker, how does dale got in the paradox room?

[azure bay]

I think CS have a special relationship with time. For instance, we've seen Rabbit's soul next to himself before he died

[wet willow]

[azure bay]

Dale was put asleep in a constructed dream with a memory cube of that dream in the end

[wet willow]

Where?

[wet willow]

AYOO

so the paradox is justy a dream

[wet willow]

YESSS

I SAW THAT TOOO

2 diferent bunnys

[azure bay]

and yet they are the same person

[wet willow]

one is the Mr. owls brother and the white one who killed dales family on birthday

IS IT DALE?

[azure bay]

Paradox has revealed the killer as D. Eilander

David Eilander

still Owl's brother

[wet willow]

yes

SO

David has 2 forms_

??

[azure bay]

I think it's more like William becoming Laura

a reincarnation

or something like that

the white Rabbit seems to be a corrupted soul

even in Birthday

[wet willow]

yes

let me just try to understand something

about dale

after the church

he got into an elevetor when running from Mr Deer

[azure bay]

In the meantime I wouldn't say "just a dream" it seems to have some purpose for Owl's plan. It possibly bends reality, possibly in multiple ways

[wet willow]

this elevator make him get into the lake that is the -1 floor on the Rusty lake Hotel

after this elevator

dale got the golden cube after being mixed whit laura soul

and than the Paradox

???

right?

[azure bay]

I think Paradox takes place when we put these bulky VR helmets on them

and the golden cube ending takes place when Dale gets into the elevator. He's still asleep

[wet willow]

i thought that Mr owl want dale to transform in half human half animal whit laura soul and became his sucessor

[azure bay]

It's partially correct

He wants them both to consume elixir

one dies so the other becomes enlightened

[wet willow]

god way to look, then when he reach the golden cube (likeSP _ theif Nunber #1 Fan said) is when he get out of his dream and out of the VR set

[wet willow]

this is what laura said on Ch2

but laura is already dead

[azure bay]

yes

[azure bay]

it's complicated

have you played Underground Blossom?

[wet willow]

because she is william

[wet willow]

not now

next one

:)

ok better not talk about laura rn

[azure bay]

Her being William was only used to create the golden cube. His memories of the elixir elements from her cubes were used

[wet willow]

i got to go very quick brb in bit

[azure bay]

take care

[wet willow]

Im black

[wet willow]

Ok

About creating cubes

Im Roots at the secrets William and Aldo laboratory

We can make clubes

With certeins elements

Do you know some thing about?

[azure bay]

I'm not sure we're supposed to take that alchemy level at face value. The elixir recipe makes no sense, the white cube recipe is The Lake reference, the whole system is one big reference to an old school Alchemy game

[wet willow]

And the crow egg??

[azure bay]

what about it?

[wet willow]

What does it represent ?

[azure bay]

It's a bit complicated topic too

There are 2 instances of black eggs

Crow eggs and Harvey's eggs

[wet willow]

Hmmm

[azure bay]

not sure they are the same

[wet willow]

Hmm

[azure bay]

they might me

we know for sure that Harvey's eggs are somehow and for some unclear reason bad

maybe so are crow eggs

maybe they are not

maybe they don't mean anything at all

[wet willow]

Hm ok

But we craft the elixir with the egg

[azure bay]

and that doesn't make sense

[wet willow]

Hm

Ok

[azure bay]

I mean, even by RL standards

Why would you craft an egg using primordial elements if you could just go to the nest on your house's facade?

besides, Caroline's book specifically in Paradox movie seems to imply that the brothers have recreated her formula from Paradise

there are their initials over it

A vdB and W vdB

[rancid slate]

Actually, all the ingredients were inside the egg

Mr Crow told me

[wet willow]

i mean it cat be that seriouslly till you reach de egg

than the elixir can be made by the egg

[eager anvil]

yo guys what happens if someone drinks the whole elixir bottle

and not share it with anyone

[azure bay]

another thing, it's really way too simple

[rancid slate]

The Elixir's glass and the Egg appear on the Vanderboom family flag to show the player how to do it

It is mostly for puzzle variety, like we have to coffe, acid and water in 3 different games, but in different ways

[azure bay]

not sure. Otherwise it doesn't matter if you drink 1st or last

[wet willow]

about the eilanders, if we need a CS to merge into the Half Human Half Animal, how they all had merge? whith just caroline soul?

[rancid slate]

Best you could say is that the Egg represent the Vanderboom brothers (?)

[wet willow]

like a big omelet

[rancid slate]

You dont need a corrupted soul

[wet willow]

this is why i ask, cuz i notice on the flag

[rancid slate]

You will duplicate 🐈

[azure bay]

Soul fusion doen't make sense either but for a different reason. RL is built on samsara and in samsara souls are constant. They don't fuse nor split. I think that was how they depicted her elixir sacrifice. She was making one after all before that happened

[wet willow]

than why william nedded to die and after that aldous....

[rancid slate]

Fused 67%
Died 33%

[azure bay]

the death was needed, not a CS

[wet willow]

and the harveys egg?

[azure bay]

it seems connected to Laura

beyond Harvey obviously

[rancid slate]

Harvey's egg only appear in memories/cubes tho

[wet willow]

hmm

[wet willow]

oh ok

[wet willow]

ah

[azure bay]

TPW says that memories are just as real as the reality and the reality is just another cube.

[rancid slate]

Nah u trippin

🗣

[wet willow]

so to became fused we need a death and also ahve the chances?

[azure bay]

I challenge you to explain TPW in other way

[wet willow]

that sentence lagged my brain but i liked it

[rancid slate]

In TPW, we play as two Roses and they like to chat with each other, soon becomin 2 online besties. But theres a problem: They live in different contries :(

So Future Rose makes a giant lab to get some money and buy 2 trips to the Lake, where the 2 Roses meet irl and live happily ever after

[wet willow]

that means that every memory is a diferent reality, becuse memories r cubes and the rality ar just another cubes.

[rancid slate]

@wet willow u didnt played The Past Within, right?

[wet willow]

you cooked my mind

[rancid slate]

I dont want to spoil you

[wet willow]

not yet

[azure bay]

I wouldn't be too sure about ALL memories. But certainly those already in cubes

[rancid slate]

🙃

[wet willow]

you can use ||this||

tysm guys

[azure bay]

@wet willow and I suggest playing TPW before UB. In that way the ending will make much more sense

[wet willow]

okok

ill take it

just a lat question 🙏🏿😭

who tf was harvey

i know he is the bird

and also the one we play with in hotel

and the curse that turn him into a normal bird

but who was he before the hotel

[azure bay]

we have no idea

[wet willow]

😭😭😭

[azure bay]

maybe just a bird as seen in Paradise

[carmine field]

Maybe one day they'll address Harvey's origins, all we know is that he came from an egg

[azure bay]

or maybe he time travelled to 1796

The devs said 3 things about Harvey

[honest brook]

I think Mr Owl turned Harvey back into a normal bird after the hotel guests escaped and presumably killed Harvey, judging from the secret scene in Birthday

[carmine field]

It seems so, yes

[azure bay]

1. He came from a black egg
2. He's old and knows many other characters
3. Sometimes he acts like some kind of guide for them

Also they said that the things they say may change in future games

[wet willow]

good point

i just thought something rn

i might be trippin but who kons

think with me

harvey apears in paradise

on the place that the ritual are going to happend

and they will became fusion

thay already had a death (Caroline)

IFFF

harvey had drink a little bit of the elixir

and because of the ritual

[honest brook]

That's what I thought as well, since we see other random animals in Hotel, maybe they also came from the island

[wet willow]

yes is not that random

because in paradise

we saw a lot of frogs

as the cooker

[azure bay]

There was no physical elixir in Paradise. Caroline created a conceptual one using her memories and the cult just sacrificed Jakob for their family sake. I'm not sure Harvey would be affected by that sacrifice but that's a funny thought

[wet willow]

but jacob is the Mr Owl innit?

[azure bay]

Jakob was meant to die but Caroline outsmarted everybody and created elixir for his soul before it lost his identity

[wet willow]

complex

[azure bay]

his body was definitely dead

[wet willow]

than how did he became Mr Owl
?

[azure bay]

thanks to Caroline's conceptual elixir

used on his soul

at the last moments

[wet willow]

hm

ok

thining like what i said

about harvey somehow beeing afected by the ritual

and becaming a fusion

make more sence when you said that there is no elexir at that point

[azure bay]

I mean

the elixir was only for Caroline and Jakob

but the rest of the family was enlightened too by a different ritual

it could potentially affect Harvey

but I wouldn't consider it seriously until we get some evidence

[wet willow]

because as there was no elixir, they became fusions, because of Jacob's sacrifice.

And in Roots, when we see the aldo transforming into Corvo, we also give the dog elixir, and under the same circumstances it did not transform, which could mean that only with the ritual is it possible to transform common animals into fusions. and Mr Owl may have realized this because he was the one sacrificed

[azure bay]

and btw I prefer the term asura

[wet willow]

how will you get the evidence

[wet willow]

what is asura

[azure bay]

it's a demon/demigod from Indian mythology RL is based on

[wet willow]

asura is the name that i would defenetly gave to my daughter

[honest brook]

it was the symbol from theatre, it translates to asura

[azure bay]

Owl, Crow and other like them are asuras

[wet willow]

ok i see

[azure bay]

and, just in case, Dale is teased to become a deva (a god)

[wet willow]

but what do you ment about prefering the term asura

about what?

[azure bay]

I mean I call them asuras

[wet willow]

insted of fusions?

[wet willow]

whos deva

[azure bay]

yep, it's more appropriate

[azure bay]

basically (very basically) asuras but better

[wet willow]

i love the topics related to gods, so you can talk like a nerd ill ear you til i sleep

[wet willow]

AAHAHHA ok

[azure bay]

originally samsara is about a cycle of reincarnations and there are 6 options to be reborn as

humans and animals are simple to understand

there are also pretas (hungry ghosts), in RL they are corrupted souls

originally souls that are unable to rebirth

[wet willow]

ok

what about the other 3

[wet willow]

ok

[azure bay]

there are hells and hell dwellers, both are called naraka but I think I've heard they are pronounced a bit differently

and there are asuras and devas

[wet willow]

hells and hell dwellers are 3 tipes of samsara?

[azure bay]

naraka, preta, animal, human, asura and deva

here are 6 realms of samsara

[wet willow]

okok

is a kinda strange

cuz in my leguage

preta

its a black woman

and its a kind of ofensive AHHAAH

[azure bay]

I suppose that's a coincidence

[wet willow]

but preta as you ment is also black?

[azure bay]

only in RL I think

in the mythology they are more fleshy

[wet willow]

i see

[azure bay]

they have thin necks so they can't normally seciate their hunger

[wet willow]

hmm

ill search about it on my free time

how do i seach

"Indian mythology samsara"

[azure bay]

that's a good way

you may try Buddhism or Hinduism specifically

[wet willow]

i had suddyied budism back than

and i do not head about samsara

i just got the concept of acchiving Nirvana

[azure bay]

Nirvana is about quiting samsara

[wet willow]

ohhhhh

about do not rebirth

[azure bay]

yes

and no suffering

[wet willow]

and stay at the perfect state of myself continiouslly

[azure bay]

these 6 fellas all suffer but in different ways

[wet willow]

ok it can be compared to in "catolicism" the "heaven" and the "9 floors of the hell"

[azure bay]

except you suffer while you live

[lunar axle]

Actually it's pret. While transliterating hindi (devnagri script) go English, we add an 'a' in the end to be more technical about half sounds.

[wet willow]

ok i see

[carmine field]

I would say it's best to check the references to Samsara in Rusty Lake rather than researching it in depth, as it's all pretty shallow

[lunar axle]

Gets confusing when words end with a 'aa' sound.

[wet willow]

why?

i dont think so

[wet willow]

ok ok

[lunar axle]

Because you will have an 'a' in the end of both, with and without 'aa'.

[wet willow]

i do not undertand that

sorry

of both what

ohhh

i got

pret

will be prenouced as preta

even without a

is that?

[carmine field]

What is your language?

[wet willow]

Portuguese

[carmine field]

same lol

[wet willow]

W

brasilian one or European one?

[carmine field]

Brazilian

[lunar axle]

Both 'pret' and 'pretaa' will be spelled as 'preta'

[wet willow]

dope

entao ctg eu posso falar assim :)

better no

cuz of the rules

[wet willow]

does "aa" have diferent soud than "a"

[lunar axle]

In paradise, the second 'a' is the 'aa' sound

[wet willow]

but the first "a" sound on Paradise is the same as the second one

😭

[lunar axle]

Not a good example

[wet willow]

i see

like a closed a

not opened

[carmine field]

Claro, mas use o canal #🌐｜canal-português ou fale comigo pela DM!

[lunar axle]

Google samsara pronunciation

You might understand what I am trying to say

[wet willow]

yes i read it whit the right pronouciation in my mind ahaahahah

so wich "a" from samsara is the one that you ment to me the right a for pret

[lunar axle]

The 'uh' sound in the end

[wet willow]

yes this is how we say preta in portuguese too

[carmine field]

Just an observation

By "shallow" I meant that they don't address the elements in depth (like references to myths) based on my research, but there's nothing stopping you from investigating them in depth

Rusty Lake has its own version of Samsara btw

[wet willow]

i mean, there are so many diferent accents but the pronouciation of this specific "a" i think is the same

[lunar axle]

The 't' sound might be different too.

[wet willow]

yeah i goth that

[wet willow]

😩 ill search "pret" prenoucuiation

[lunar axle]

I think they just made a game based on the philosophy called "samsara room"

[wet willow]

yyh

[lunar axle]

And then later connected it to the rusty Lake series

[wet willow]

which lenguage is that ? hindi ?

[lunar axle]

Yes

[wet willow]

google do not said the "a" and tranlated it to Beautiful

[lunar axle]

[wet willow]

lets go to general ?

[rancid slate]

(Spoilers for Roots, Underground Blossom and kinda Samsara Room)

Theory:
||Laura doesn't only have William's memories, but also all the Vanderboom family memories aswell (Except for Aldous)||

||Technically, William already has all the Vanderboom memories because he saw everything. But we also know that William needed 10 sacrifices, that were 10 parts of each Vanderboom member||

||"So you are saying that a tongue, eyeballs, a foot and some teeth can contain memories?"
Even if the sacrifices were not parts of the brain, how would she have William's memories? Just because he was the one the sacrifices were for? Atleast we could say that Laura has Albert's memories since he was the one to sacrifice his brain||

||Laura is Albert?? In Soul Street, Laura says "The Bee/Butterfly, I remember" or something like that. Besides the BB (I will use BB as a short term) that we see in UB, Laura never interacts, or atleast we never see her, with BB. The only character that we know to have direct interaction with BB is Albert. So Laura remembers something that William or Albert saw? ||

||Craziest possibility is that Laura remembers the BB from Crib Station 💀 Anyway, this was more like a question than a Theory. BB and the color of the Blossom are related somehow, not only in UB, but also in TPW. We also see Pink/White trees in other games from Rusty Lake, but, as far as I know, we dont know what it exactly means||

||And just to clarify, ofc I dont think Laura is Albert 💀💀💀💀||

||But it still is very weird to have that voiceline in the main game and not as some kind of secret.. With the BB being together with Corrupted Laura, I think it could be some kind of connection to the Moths, which Laura has actual interactions with. Even if they are when she is dead..

Sooo... Is BB a retcon to the Moths and Fireflies?||

[carmine field]

I believe that moths are something from Mr. Owl

Considering he was the one who took Laura's body to the mill, even if we didn't notice he was there

There is a possibility that Laura remembers the butterbee because of Albert's brain, but I don't think that's the case because Laura is not a Frankenstein

She doesn't have Frank's brown hair

The sacrifices seem much more like parts of a ritual than parts of Laura's body, perhaps symbolizing the substance of her past lives? (After all, Roots references this in the last level)

Laura has William's memories because corrupted souls have memories

especially William, as we never saw him have his memories extracted, even though he was a corrupted soul

[azure bay]

I think her somehow interacting with the butterbee is more oikely than having memories from all Vanderbooms. She doesn't show any other weird knowledge besides that. I'd expect the butterbee part being revealed in some future game

[azure bay]

Sp wasn't spraking of a Frankenstein monster, it was rather about the lemories being transfered via their essence

[carmine field]

hmmmmm

[azure bay]

It seems possible considering memory-bearing bones of Caroline

However it doesn't seem a likely narrative direction so far

[azure bay]

Speaking of the moth:

1. Don't you separate the bee and the moths?
2. To me the moths seem generally connected to death, corruption and black cubes

[carmine field]

Fair

I'd say it would be more connected to death, considering the situations in which it appears

[azure bay]

I think black cube connecrion is somewhat strong too. In one of the older TPW teasers the cube was black due to moths

[carmine field]

But on a literal level, their presence may have been caused by Mr. Owl, unless they are purely symbolic

[carmine field]

Oh

Which teaser?

[honest brook]

this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-jLARnxZsM

[azure bay]

Thanks

[carmine field]

I see

[azure bay]

Gosh how much it changed

[honest brook]

And the black cube in from Spring in Seasons that had all the moths coming out of it

[azure bay]

Yep

And the only real tie to corruption seems to be Arles. One moth was in Vincent's ear

Unless I'm missing something

I do

Paradox

[carmine field]

I had forgotten about that

[azure bay]

Or not?

I do

One appears in the end of ch2 when Dale's mind is corrupted

But the one in ch1 seems weird

[carmine field]

oohh yeah

[rancid slate]

Could the Samsara Room be their first house?

The window pattern is not the same from Laura's house, neither the Vanderboom house

[azure bay]

SR takes place during Roots ending

I wouldn't say it's a real place

[rancid slate]

If it was a real place, that would be the view

[azure bay]

I wouldn't be so sure

[rancid slate]

Not too far from where the family used to live

[azure bay]

this "view" was always someone's painting

Bob Ross in the original

and Johan Scherft in the remake

[rancid slate]

Could still be an actual view if it was real..

[azure bay]

In the "may be, may be not" scenario with no evidence I prefer not to think about it too much

besides

there's really nothing to grant the room credibility

even if it was the real view

I don't think the devs would introduce a neighboring house just to explain it

[rancid slate]

Rose moved so Laura would not find about uuuuhhh idk

[azure bay]

SR takes place before LAura was born

the secret ending still technically takes place in SR

It's a glimpse into the future but not an accurate vision

[rancid slate]

This made me think about something

Theres a plenty of locations that have no doors in-game

Some are real and some arent

So "not having a door" cant prove something is not real too

(Not saying that SR is real 💀)

[azure bay]

I think it's about gameplay. The devs wrote in one of the devlogs that they prefer not to give the players too many options as well as leaving useless objects on the level.

maybe a little beyond

like giving surreal or claustrophobic vibes

[rancid slate]

Yeah

If I saw a door, I would def click on it to see what happens

[carmine field]

Some levels from Roots have this view

[azure bay]

it's further

[carmine field]

(Although the house itself is in this painting)

[azure bay]

Are you sure? I don't see it

[carmine field]

I'm talking about the full painting

By suspension of disbelief, we ignore that they reuse the same scenario, even if it doesn't make sense

[azure bay]

the thing is, they were using this image a lot, including from pov inside the house

[carmine field]

yeah

If this view were to reference something, it would be William's own house

[azure bay]

not sure

the bridge isn't supposed to be visible

[carmine field]

Hmmm maybe, but Emma's spyglass could see it

[azure bay]

ok, fair

[rancid slate]

We dont see the house when we are inside the house

[azure bay]

never said we did

[rancid slate]

Why not?

[azure bay]

it's positioning

it's not much closer to the lake than the house

it likely isn't supposed to be visible through northern windows

[rancid slate]

Seems far enough

[azure bay]

k

[royal notch]

Perhaps Samsara Room meants to represents the mansion, both for William's corrupted soul and for future Laura. Or at the very least the window is.

[honest brook]

but the window in Samsara Room looks a little different from the ones in Roots

[rancid slate]

Is this image canon? 😭

[azure bay]

I think it is but the devs never really cared about architecture

[azure bay]

Laura didn't live in the family house for long

[royal notch]

I mean, do we actually have evidences of that?

[rancid slate]

I saw a text in the wiki talking about the leaves being white in Case 23

[rancid slate]

Yeah, her house is clearly not the Vanderboom house

And she also won a trip to the Hotel

So she leaves far from it

[royal notch]

Come on, she was 36 there!

[rancid slate]

If she lived in the family house, she could just go walking and would also already know about it

And Dale too would already notice the Rusty Lake things

[azure bay]

her trip to RL is a big deal. As if something she doesn't do normally

as if there's no much attachment

as if she lived elsewhere the most of her life

[royal notch]

I repeat, she's a young woman. A lot can happen in 31 years, and in fact we don't know when they decided to move. Just that it must have happened before Rose's disappaerance.

[rancid slate]

And also, there would probably be a photo of Rose on the family house. In UB, Laura really cares about her photos, and only has the one from Child Lane. So Laura probably wasnt still living in the family house in the 40-50s

[azure bay]

||I repeat|| if Rose were kidnapped when they were living by the lake Laura wouldn't have moved to the city for a long time, she'd grow further attached to the lake and would have even less reasons to move

besides

BKM is in the same city

her and Laura getting there separately is one heck of a coincidence

[rancid slate]

Laura in BKM?

[azure bay]

Rose in BKM

[royal notch]

Dude, i said the same thing.

[azure bay]

no

you are saying she could move whenever

[royal notch]

I didn't.

Really.

[azure bay]

then what's your point?

[royal notch]

We don't know when they moved. Period. But surely before the kidnap.

[azure bay]

k

[rancid slate]

Child Lane takes place in 39-40s

So Laura is 4-5

Who would take care of her?

Besides Harvey

[royal notch]

The same question could be done for Dale.

[rancid slate]

Leonard and Frank dont seem to be known by Laura

[rancid slate]

But he was twice as old as Laura, so it is less concerning

[carmine field]

and they're probably dead tbh

[rancid slate]

Fr

And Rose is like

😐

[lunar axle]

Laura was really taken care for during her growing up. Probably in a foster home. She was sad and depressed since Rose left. Wouldn't have survived on her on.

Any foster home will be ready to take her in to get access to the Vanderboom riches.

[azure bay]

not sure they could have got access to the riches abroad

[lunar axle]

Rose definitely left funds for Laura. She left Laura for Laura's sake. She wouldn't leave her dry.

[azure bay]

honestly, I'm not sure the devs thought all that through. Even theough the speculation seems legit

[rancid slate]

Hope to see how the family house is doing in the next RLU campaign..

[azure bay]

I think it's a certainty

not sure how much will be revealed

[rancid slate]

Could be something like "You and your friends find an abandoned house"

[azure bay]

I suppose

[rancid slate]

Or maybe something happened there and we have been sent to investigate

[lunar axle]

The house was demolished and a bird food factory was built there

[rancid slate]

Hell nah 💀

[azure bay]

not yet*

[rancid slate]

(Underground Blossom ending spoiler)
What if this letter is actually real? 🗣️🗣️

||The Menu for UB also appears in the Subway Map, before the Hotel and Crib Stations, so lets say it takes place before 1935. Harvey receives a letter from Mr. Owl and he tells us to meet in the Lake. Ofc, in the game, we go to the Lake Station, but he could also be referring to the Lake from the surface, which also has the Hotel. "Then why didn't just wrote 'Meet me in the Hotel'?" Uuuhh because Harvey wasn't at the Lake region, maybe.. Maybe he was in another city idk, so referring to the Rusty Lake as just "The Lake" would be normal.

One thing tho, in-game, Mr. Owl also says "So we will meet again" when referring to our meeting in the Hotel Station.. Wth is happening?? As we know, the time inside the Lake itself behaves very differently, as things from the past, present and future could be shown and seen, but not happen at the same (and actually irl) time. So if we consider that scene as canon, it would imply that Harvey somehow had to go through the whole Laura's life and then meet Mr. Owl back in 1935 with a possible timetravel (I'm just going nuts) and this would lead to my craziest thought:

UB is actually a Test from Mr. Owl??? Some kind of Paradox?? Harvey does all the things we did in UB, considering it all being a test/fake reality inside the Lake and not the actual real life. As I said earlier, the Menu takes place before 1935, so this is all actually happening BEFORE 1935, WHICH COULD ALSO MEAN THAT UB TAKES PLACE BEFORE 1894, JUSTIFYING HARVEY'S ASURA APPEARENCE 💥💥💥 Sorry||

||After seeing the entire Laura's life, Laura tells Harvey to find his own thing or whatever (I dont remember exactly what she said) and Harvey ends his test.. But it's not over yet (This part doesnt make sense: Why Mr. Owl would make Harvey live a test and then just send a letter to him? Lol) Harvey just received a letter from Mr. Owl, maybe real or still in the test, so he goes to the Lake where a future Mr. Owl (idk man) makes another test. If Harvey beats this other test, he will be ready to do it in real life (The test is collecting the cubes 💀) After doing it, Mr. Owl gives him the shrimp and we finally go to 1935, where Mr. Owl tells us that the Day of the Lake is coming..

:)

...

:|

:(

And how does that connects into the story?? 😡😡😡 After that, Harvey actually meets Rose (Which somehow already knew him and also was already expecting him to come) and they do all the things that we know from the other games and and idk I run out of things to think.. We still have to wait until the Day of the Lake tho 🗣

Sorry for having to read all that, if someone reads this 💀||

Wait, I'm not over yet 🗣

||"If you read this letter you have successfully accompained Laura on her journey. But I have another task for you." This implies that taking care of Laura was not the task that Mr. Owl would give us in 1935. As he mentions the Day of the Lake, it could also imply that Laura herself is not relevant to the Day of the Lake.. So what would Harvey's task be?

Now, if we consider my craziest thought too of having going back in time or UB just being a test, it could possibly mean that in another reality Mr. Owl failed in the Cave and Paradox part of the story, (Considering the next event of the story being the Day of the Lake) and had to go back in time to have Harvey helping him this time and making sure everything would happen as planned.

Oh, I just realized: With "another task" not being taking care of Laura, it could mean that UB was not a test for taking care of Laura at all! And this just makes everything fall apart 🗣🗣🗣 Guess we doin Timetravel now||

[azure bay]

I think it's a bit more simple. It seems, at least for a while, Harvey stopped working for Owl after the incident of 1894. From then on he was doing his own thing helping others when he felt like it. That includes Emma, Frank and now apparently Rose.

It doesn't seem like Underground Blossom is some fake reality or simulation. It's fake on the meta-level in a way that is doesn't depict the events faithfully but the events themselves were real.

And I don't think they were a deliberate test for Harvey, Owl likely can't be in control because Rose and Albert seem to be his blind spot. Even Mr. Crow isn't there to punch tickets when Harvey and Laura escape to The Lake.

I think the letter itself was canon. Not sure about their encounter at the lake bottom but it might be. I read the letter like "you had your own duties but now when they are fullfilled I really need you help, could you please go back in time for me? It's kinda important"

And now I'm convinced that there were 2 Harveys in the story. The one that was always with Laura (Seasons, Harvey's Box) and the one that was working with Owl (The Mill, Theatre, Paradox, The White Door)

the one doing what Rose asked him to do and the one helping Owl with the day of the lake

[rancid slate]

I saw that comment about the Run Harvey program being UB

It was very interesting

[azure bay]

I had such a thought too but it doesn't seem to make much sense

Harvey is a person, not a program

and The Lab is part of UB

[rancid slate]

Do you think Laura really killed her Harvey? Harvey still appeared normally in the Mill way back then, so having 2 Harveys could not be a planned concept

[azure bay]

I have no idea

[rancid slate]

Or atleast stabbed it

[azure bay]

I was thinking how UB would coincide with Seasons

but I see no way how Harvey could motivate Laura to start doing things including prevention of his own death

[rancid slate]

There could be 2 Lauras too

Somehow

[azure bay]

yes but it would likely be after she was motivated to start changing her cubes

It's possible that Harvey was killed only inside a cube by the traveller Laura

it seems that normally the travelers synchronize with their past-selves and are unable to willingly change things on their own with no external help

but maybe Laura being a corrupted soul somehow made her recall her "future" that happened to her before?

[rancid slate]

😵‍💫

If Laura from UB and CE are the same, UB would still have to be after all of that because of the "Life without sorrow"

[rancid slate]

"When Laura activates the machine in Cube Escape: Seasons and then goes to the Summer or Fall, Mr. Crow will say, "Find me in the past" on the phone."
(Fandom)

Is that really Mr. Crow?

[azure bay]

that makes no sense. It has to be Laura from Winter

[rancid slate]

I always assumed it was him, but yeah, it being Corrupted Laura makes more sense

[azure bay]

life without sorrow feels exactly like Seasons' ending

I suppose Seasons take place some time during the blossom tornado

[rancid slate]

For me, Seasons is still the thing that happens in her Pov while in the Big White Cube

[azure bay]

that's unlikely

Seasons are a memory

what's more, a memory of a time 9 years after she was in the big cube

it's not "Paradox for Laura"

Paradox was an artificial construct under Owl's surveillance

[rancid slate]

I think of Seasons as a way to trick Laura into changing her mind and getting uncorrupted

[azure bay]

It doesn't have to be a trick. Birthday does almost the same thing almost in the same way and it's a legit cube

And again, Owl's presence is strong there

and there's none in Seasons

[rancid slate]

I only say that because we still dont see both cases being confirmed later

[azure bay]

what cases and confirmed in what way?

[rancid slate]

Like, in another game seeing Laura alive in 1981 or Dale's parents being alive

We only see these in Seasons and Birthday

Not outside of that

[azure bay]

Considering how TPW works they have to be alive but in their own realities we may not ever see again.

What's more, Laura stayed in such for 17 years. So it's not about "tricking her" so she's suddenly alive outside the cube (which would probably work considering The White Door), it's exactly about "another life without sorrow"

[rancid slate]

Still gotta wait

[azure bay]

and yeah, the devs said that there are still secrets left in 1981. Meaning that it's not a fake year and Seasons likely take place 9 years after Dale's ending for real

and we'll likely see that

[rancid slate]

🗣

[azure bay]

yeah, what is that emoji supposed to mean when you use it? It's not the 1st time

[rancid slate]

It means 🗣

[rancid slate]

Do you still have the source? Link or image

[azure bay]

It was said during Q&A section of Gamescom 2023, there are notes of my friend who heard that in person but none of us will be able to read them

The full answer was like "there are still secrets in 1966 and 1981"

[rancid slate]

Small thing I noticed:

Even if we use th 9827 code to get the 4th photo, we will still see only 3 photos in School St and Bird Bridge. Maybe Harvey took away the 4th photo? Or.. ||IT WAS THE THIEF omg I knew it, this man is everywhere!! /j||

[rancid slate]

Here's my list of Top 5 Things the Thief could have stolen (In no particular order)

1. Winter Mask - We see it in the same Box as the Timepiece, so maaaybe? This would mean the Thief would at some point steal from Rose or from the house itself. How Future Rose got the masks later on? Idk 🗣️ Still talking about the Winter mask, they could also tell us that Soul Street or Crib Station take place in Winter because uuhh Winter

2. The Lost Painting - The Thief in 1939-40s? Wow, this man is really old. Also, we could have a game with one of the first cases from Dale envolving the Thief.. Just for funzies or maybe to learn even more about Dale's past.. Oh yeah, and it could also be in a Museum with the Mammoth

3. Laura's Clock from her House to the Mill - Working for Mr. Crow? This joke theory also works with the theory about William taking over Laura and Mr. Crow wanting William back too: Mr. Crow would order the Thief to steal the Timepiece (Which protects Laura from William's control) so William could kill Laura aka make her kill herself. Mr. Crow would also later on order the Thief to steal her clock after her death and maybe even before Dale arrives in Case 23

4. The 4th Photo - Having a photo of your target? The previous joke theory also works with this one: Mr. Crow would give the photo to ths Thief so he would know who to steal from. But this also makes Mr. Crow the one who stole the 4th photo and not the Thief so uuuuhh bruh

5. 1966 Watch to Mr. Owl - He loves clocks :) This one also implies that the Thief could work to not only Mr. Crow, but also Mr. Owl. Considering the William theory as a "Mr. Crow betrays Mr. Owl" theory, we could assume the Thief is more like a mercenary of some sort. And a very good one, as he doesn't reveals who he works for even when tortured

[azure bay]

Maybe Harvey took away the 4th photo?
I just think that the devs don't care that much about details

[azure bay]

do you want me to play along and seriously respond to that?

[stark rose]

just going to dump my joke conspiracy theory here:

albert reincarnates as bob hill. obviously disproven given tpw, but it was funny while it lasted for an hour.
1st: hair color. admittedly arbitrary given how half the vanderboom family are brunettes while the other half are blonds, but their hair colors are extremely close in shade.
2nd: bob recognizes laura on their presumed first meeting in station 4 of UB, and says that he remembers her. this connects to roots because of how albert places william into the reincarnation cycle which starts with laura, so there's probably some reincarnation deja vu schtick going on.
3rd: arguably the dumbest link, given it occurs in theater, but bob both shoots bruises 1 side of his head to the point of bleeding and additionally shoots a gun there, pretty much permanently scarring him for life. guess who else has a permanent scar? albert.

[rancid slate]

Only if you want to

[lunar axle]

The UB stations are memory stations. The events taking place in UB are not real, but recreated from extracted memories.

[azure bay]

For what purpose?

[lunar axle]

To make Laura understand how to ascend

[azure bay]

And Rose's lab is a memory too?

[lunar axle]

No, none of them are memories

[azure bay]

none of what?

[lunar axle]

The stations

[azure bay]

but what are they if not memories directly?

[lunar axle]

They are places recreated in the bottom of the lake (hence underground). The lake is multi dimensional. It created those stations by warping time and other dimensions to make Laura relive her memories with Harvey as her guide.

[azure bay]

I can agree about time but creating fake locations... It's out of blue

the lake bottom was always a forest

I think the stations simply aren't literal

The devs wrote in the devlog that they wanted to make a game where different stations symbolise stages of someone's story

and Laura was a good candidate since her story wasn't highlighted enough

even the synopsis speaks of it as of symbolisms

[rancid slate]

The Stations represent moments from Laura's life and that's it. That's what the devs said

[lunar axle]

If you want to go by the devs' vision, then UB doesn't fit in the rusty Lake storyline at all. Also, any game after paradise is just devs playing with different gameplay ideas without caring about story coherence.

[azure bay]

but it does fit

it connects Roots to the rest of Laura's story

and retells it in a more metaphorical way

[azure bay]

what exactly doesn't fit?

[lunar axle]

Exactly, the events of UB are metaphorical. They are not canon.

They are modified versions of canon events

[azure bay]

and where is the problem?

[lunar axle]

Nothing

[rancid slate]

UB is canon

[lunar axle]

But if you want to make them fit into canon timeline, you need to come up with crazy theories

[azure bay]

not necessarily crazy

the most difficult part while assembling the timeline of the events is placing the endings

but I think I nailed it

[rancid slate]

•Crib Station is after Laura's birth
•Child Lane is her childhood, at 1939-40s. It also shows us when Rose possibly started the Lab
•School Street could in the 50s
•Bird Bridge is atleast after the 7th Dream from TWD
•The Lab is between that
•Sorrow Cross goes from 1969 to 1971
•Soul Street from 1971-1981
•The Lake is timeless as confirmed in TPW

If something doesnt make sense now, they could still explain in other games

[azure bay]

or make it worse lmao

[rancid slate]

💀

[lunar axle]

The events happened for sure, but not as depicted in UB and not at train stations.

[rancid slate]

Yes

[azure bay]

I think it's true for most of the games. UB simply went the farthest

[rancid slate]

Jimmy Vandermeer?? 😱😱

[azure bay]

hushhhhhh

[rancid slate]

Would you have any idea about Jimmy V?

Like, why would he be in Roots?

Maybe William was supposed to be reincarnated into Jimmy, but they changed to Laura

That date for his birth is still too far tho

[royal notch]

Wait, what did i miss this time?

[rancid slate]

@royal notch Jimmy Vandermeer was a scrapped/unused character from Roots. As he didn't made into the final product, Jimmy probably isn't canon anymore

We only have his name and a date

[royal notch]

Oh, i didn't know that, thank you!

The 3° sibling?...

[wet willow]

@rancid slate if the granny is crows wife

When roots start we see James

William is him uncle

So crow is him dad?

[rancid slate]

Who knows?

He could be

[wet willow]

Interesting

At the birthday, dales granddad look a bit like Mr Crow innit?

[rancid slate]

Wait, we still have to consider his wife

We dont see her in Roots

And she probably borns in 1880-1900

1910+ if she is stressed out and gets old quicker

I always assumed William was closer to James and that's why the letter mentions him

Maybe there's a 3rd Brother

Or sister

[rancid slate]

Yes, but that's his only appearence

He doesnt appear in the other 2 despictions of the event in Paradox

[sick cedar]

who tf is Jimmy

[rancid slate]

@sick cedar Jimmy from UB is one of the students

And that's it

[sick cedar]

ah

[rancid slate]

Have you played Underground Blossom?

[sick cedar]

nah I get most of my knowledge from walkthroughs and nowhere’s UB videos

[rancid slate]

You should try it

[sick cedar]

I can’t, i’m too broke to get it

[wheat ore]

OMG i love this 😭

[wet willow]

what

[rancid slate]

It's a possibility

[wet willow]

from where

[rancid slate]

Nowhere

[azure bay]

I think not. James wouldn't likely be a Vanderboom if there was a sister

But a brother

possibly

[rancid slate]

Possibly

[azure bay]

the thing is, James didn't question the disappearance of Aldous Vanderboom which coincided William's death

his fatherhood would imply complicated relationship

but nothing of sorts if he were just another distant uncle for James

this speculation has its merits

[rancid slate]

We need a whole game to explain why William was naked

[wet willow]

i agree

[azure bay]

I think it's mostly because the fat bold man in OG Samsara Room was naked

[wet willow]

the elixir was nasty and undress william

[rancid slate]

William said "Let me cook"

[wet willow]

[rancid slate]

Aldous, we need the full elixir, Aldous

Yo mister William

[rancid slate]

Im considering Laura rembering the Tree as just the same Tree that she drew on her notebook or the Vanderboom Tree

Maybe the Tree from her house

Even if we see the ||Rose Tree in the end||, I also see no reason for her to remember it

[wet willow]

ayo, what aldos drunk was not the full elixir?

[azure bay]

considering the evidence, the only not full elixir in the series is a literally shitty extract from The Cave

[azure bay]

She clearly had prophetic dreams

at least about Dale and FRose

could be about Harvey brining blossom in Seasons

[carmine field]

All games are not literal, UB just took it to another level

[honest brook]

I agree, a good example is grasshopper puzzle in Roots. It obviously isn’t literal, it’s just there for the sake of gameplay

[rancid slate]

Does Laura smokes?

[azure bay]

I suppose the ashtray was brough in either by the detective or the devs

[rancid slate]

Cigar box in HB

[azure bay]

the thing is, we've never seen Laura smoking

and it's atypical for a woman to smoke cigars

[rancid slate]

It could have been for medical reasons

It was considered healthy back then, right?

[azure bay]

simple cigarettes are more cost efficient

[rancid slate]

She wanted the good stuff 🗣

[royal notch]

What if those are for Bob?

[rancid slate]

She broke with him in 1969

HB happens right after they break up

And she dies two years later, in 1971

[carmine field]

It's probably Dale's

Considering the situations in which he uses the cigar

[azure bay]

ooooooor...

[rancid slate]

Harvey smokes

[carmine field]

He smokes a cigar in Paradox, even without knowing who it belongs to lol

[azure bay]

Laura was smoking off her depression but failed and Dale decided not to let a cigar of such exquisite quality to be wasted ||/jk||

[carmine field]

lmao

[rancid slate]

Dale is addicted

[azure bay]

NO!!! HE CAN STOP ANY MOMENT HE WANTS!!!!

[rancid slate]

He sees a cigarette

Doesnt matter if its all torn up, stinky or smelling horribly

He is going to lit it up and smoke

"Don't mind if I do"

[celest plank]

Fr

Bro be too addicted

[rancid slate]

What if the Young Bird somehow turned into the Corrupted Soul from Roots 👽

Oh nvm it appears years before Hotel

[frosty wolf]

who is the Young Bird

[azure bay]

no idea

no info

[frosty wolf]

what does it look like

[azure bay]

probably an asura

[frosty wolf]

does it appear in any of the games at all how come i have never heard of the "Young Bird"

[azure bay]

Hotel

they were tortured by Pigeon

[rancid slate]

Chick

Young bird

[frosty wolf]

oh i see in my words it would be "Baby Pigeon"

[rancid slate]

That doesnt look like a pigeon at all..

[frosty wolf]

i do agree

[rancid slate]

🐤

Possibly died with Mr. Toad

[frosty wolf]

rip we need toad backstory

[rancid slate]

He was a Toad

And then

He met Mr. Owl

And he said

Put a clothing on

Its time to cook

[azure bay]

the devs said he and Bat used to be humans before working for Owl

[rancid slate]

Mr. Toad is Jimmy Vandermeer

Mr. Rabbit is D Eilander

Ans Mr Toad is Avid

That was his favorite plague

Wasnt it?

[wheat ore]

what did she break 😟

[rancid slate]

His heart

[rancid slate]

@vital ravine its just a reuse of asset :)

And Harvey also exists before James

Not sure if you played the other games, so I will let you find out ;)

Oh yeah, James also dies after drinking the elixir

I presume you didnt finished Roots too

But, I can tell you that the game will show more of the Elixir being drinked

[carmine field]

The same pose is used by William and Mr. Deer

Anyway, don't be afraid to share your theories

We would be happy to hear and discuss any thoughts you may have

[remote remnant]

so has anyone figured out in what country rusty lake is?

[azure bay]

If we take all evidence seriously (and I feel we shouldn't) Rusty Lake itself would be in the northern part of England and Dale/Laura/Bob would live in New York

Leonard was wearing a brody helmet during WW1

So it would make him either British, American or Canadian

but the chapel near the lake was built in 1384, placing it in the Old World

so England it is

meanwhile Dale's parents were killed using the infamous Tommy gun

and his work vehicle is a characteristic Chrysler

and Bob's cube was located in NYC during an ARG

even though it was several decades later, Dr. Hoorn's body was found there too

he worked at TWD

which has to be located in the same city as Laura and Bob

[azure bay]

Not sure at all the devs did their homework when it came to WW1 (considering the mess) nor the ARG feels 100% trustworthy but I hope it answers it

[remote remnant]

yeah i think your theory is the closest thing we have to cannon rn

[thorn chasm]

I think at least a small part of rl is dale is dealing with mental illnesses caused by the stress of his job, traumatised by urban legends as a little kid, tormented by his memories of friends and family. Now, Im new in this franchise so there may be loads of stuff that disproves this and I know this theory has more holes than swiss cheese so please dont be too judgemental

oh nvm the cubes arent his imagination or hallucination or a symbol of his memories made up in his mind as proven in the white door.

[azure bay]

How does TWD prove that?

[thorn chasm]

disprove?

there was a literal organisation storing memories in cubes

so either bob is hallucinating the same thing or this whole thing is wrong or my memory decieves me

[rancid slate]

Technically CE Seasons already shows us that the Cubes are memories

[azure bay]

It's about them LITERALLY being memories.

And I was just curious

[thorn chasm]

another hole in the swiss cheese

[rancid slate]

Dont mention TPW 🗣🐈

[azure bay]

Nah, tbh many don't tend to take Seasons literally.

I'm not among them but still

@thorn chasm in what order do you play the games?

[thorn chasm]

I didnt think much beforehand, CE, paradox, TPW lite, samsara room, roots, the rest is just reading from wiki

im new here, i dont know much

oh and untold?

[rancid slate]

Me when Untold tells nothing (Thats why its called Untold) 💥

[thorn chasm]

it all makes sense now

[thorn chasm]

why ask

[thorn chasm]

fun to play tho

[rancid slate]

Yeah

[azure bay]

Normally everyone the devs included recommend the release order.

TWD is relativemy recent so I was curious. There are other games that reveal the cubes more.

[thorn chasm]

you know the releasr order?

[honest brook]

it's in #📚｜resources

the past within and underground blossom go at the end

[azure bay]

But I wouldn't recommend it to the newcomers 😊

[thorn chasm]

thanks

[thorn chasm]

y

[azure bay]

It's about memorizing things you don't understand long enough to get their explanation in other game

Like Paradox is confusing as hell

[rancid slate]

Heres my personal order

[azure bay]

But if you play The Cave right before or right after you have some dots to connect

[azure bay]

Was it you who prefered to keep SR confusing before playing Roots?

[rancid slate]

Yeah

Thats why Birthday and Cave are before Hotel too

[azure bay]

I wouldn't say The Cave will get more clear if you don't play Roots beforehand

The murals and the book are everything

And you won't even think they are important if you don't see familiar faces

[thorn chasm]

Hotel before paradise?

[azure bay]

@thorn chasm here's mine I'm on the contrary trying ro fight confusion

[azure bay]

It was released before but happens after. In isolation I don't think the order among them matters but it may on the big picture

[thorn chasm]

Can you tell me 12345679 meanings

[rancid slate]

Exactly 🐈

[thorn chasm]

I always felt paradise, hotel, roots, samsara, CE in order

[azure bay]

-=Early arc of Laura=-

1. Cube Escape: The Lake (A short game for a starter)

2. Cube Escape: Seasons (Refers to The Lake events, which facilitates the chronology recognition)

3. Secret ending of The Lake (Considered true by many. Is given for playing Seasons. Feel free to skip if already seen)

4. Cube Escape: Harvey's Box (Refers to both previous games further strengthening their connections)

Cube Escape: Arles ??? (Thematical parallels with Seasons’ MC, yet the plot is rather detached, and the game could be placed elsewhere)

-=Dale’s 1st act =-
6. Cube Escape: Case 23 (A new story begins. The game is tightly linked to the previous story)

7. Cube Escape: The Mill (The events behind the scenes of Case 23. The developer’s order)

-=The origin story=-
8. Rusty Lake Hotel (Develops the characters introduced in The Mill. Gives context to Cube Escape. The developer’s order)

9. The secret scene in Birthday (An important epilogue to Hotel given for 100% it. Can be seen on YouTube or you wait until Birthday)

[thorn chasm]

Never factored in tpw, twd and others tho

[azure bay]

there's a difference between a chronological and a good narrative order

[thorn chasm]

Im feeling like the guy who supports socks on sandals rn

[thorn chasm]

Always feels odd, hotel before paradise

I get it but still…

[azure bay]

the release order isn't all bad. The devs reveal the story bit by bit one after another without too much confusion. They have a central narrative mostly told through Cube Escapes. Other titles either give it context or branch out

Hotel was to further develop recently introduced bird people and explain why Owl wants Dale

and foreshadow his journey that came out next with Bday and Theatre

Paradise was to further set up parallels between Dale and Owl and reveal them in the following Paradox

[thorn chasm]

Say what now

Wheres mr owl in paradox

[azure bay]

in ch2

[thorn chasm]

Makes sense

[azure bay]

I personally kept Hotel before Paradise because the ties to The Mill and Paradox respectively seemed more important

[thorn chasm]

Well, here comes a total replay, thanks for the order

[azure bay]

ur welcome

[thorn chasm]

Final q

Does untold have anything loreimproving

[azure bay]

define improvement

[thorn chasm]

Anything new

[azure bay]

1. Worlds inside cubes don't have to be limited to a single room
2. Collective memory cubes are possible

[thorn chasm]

Hotdamn

I need to learn to think theory

[azure bay]

3) You can't trust the in-game depictions of the locations

[thorn chasm]

Which part is that is that referring to?

[azure bay]

it's not the 1st time we visit The Lab

in fact, it's the 3rd if not the 4th

and each time it's different

[thorn chasm]

Wha-how?

And what

And from where

Care to explain?

[honest brook]

the Lab also appeared in the past within

and underground blossom

[azure bay]

possibly twice

[thorn chasm]

Oh yeahyeahyeah

[thorn chasm]

This time its a memory, innit?

Memories and actual events can differ as far as i remember

see theatre

[azure bay]

a bad example. It's a thing in a secret scene in TWD

[thorn chasm]

Correct me whenever

[azure bay]

a good example about Theatre would be The Lady of The Lake

[thorn chasm]

Havent played twd, wiki reading

[azure bay]

in TWD it was seemingly the only show

in Theatre there were 5 others and even The Lady was likely altered

I'd say the memories are different from the original events when there's some external force

[thorn chasm]

Ef?

[azure bay]

that changes them

[thorn chasm]

Like what, i meant

[azure bay]

like Mr. Owl that changes the play program to teach Dale a lesson

or when he wants him to fight his childhood trauma and gives him tools

[thorn chasm]

Oh. Ohhh

Where can I learn more lore?

I missed out on a LOT in my playthrus apparently

[azure bay]

replaying games helps

[thorn chasm]

I dont have most

[azure bay]

speaking to theorists helps

[thorn chasm]

Like roots, ub, twd, tpw

[azure bay]

watching videos helps but there aren't many

you could also read the global timeline on the wiki

[thorn chasm]

Have you time to make some loredrops ?

Anytime

[azure bay]

I guess. Do you have specific questions?

[thorn chasm]

A tag/dm would be appreciated but not completely necessary

[thorn chasm]

General loredrops according to your order

I missed out a lot in ub too, care to give some broad stuff

Played lite but, yeah.

[azure bay]

you could watch my recap on YT

[thorn chasm]

You have recap?

[azure bay]

yeah, I tend to do them for recent games

also theories but they aren't done yet for UB and many other games

[thorn chasm]

Im barelydescribably grateful.

Whats your yt/ whatever you use?

[azure bay]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZQUFcpU4zkIg2p36gH9qA

[thorn chasm]

Subbed

[remote remnant]

Hello people with more brain power than me!

does anyone know how the ending of seasons ties into the end of UB?

[azure bay]

Frankly speaking, no one could know but I assume Seasons are represented by the blossom tornado

Laura went to The Lake, found her mother (or maybe not) and she helped at some point with finding the right cubes, probably building the machine or provided the flower

Then Laura lives another life without sorrow in her cubes

While technically staying in The Lake

[remote remnant]

wowzers thats not what i expected ngl

[azure bay]

What did you expect then?

[remote remnant]

idrk

ive been trying to piece something together but it doesn't amount to anything reasonable yet

[azure bay]

It's better for you to continue trying. It's not like I figured out the lore for certain.

UB is an allegorical mess that could mean a lot of things

[remote remnant]

true that

[rancid slate]

I made a post on Reddit about Mr. Rabbit
https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/s/Gqrl8NUdnz
If anyone is interested

[floral veldt]

your last image made think of something

we have faced 3 corrupted souls until now (3 if we assume they can change)

mr deer, was faced in cube escape case 23, in the last chapter

mr rabbit was faced in cube escape birthday

and ms. pigeon was faced in cube escape harvey's box

this last one assumes that she could temporarily change back and look just like a normal pigeon, tricking us into opening the box

but, regarding your theory, I would like to go back to the buddhist philosophy in which RL is based

to them, in order to escape the cycle of rebirth and death, one needs to be enlightned

after dying one can go back to the world (samsara) or achieve enlightenment (animal metamorphosis)

so perhaps mr. rabbit found out he needed to die to escape that state

also, maybe the altering of memories isn't more than just a therapeutic treatment. Rusty Lake is advertised as a mental health resort (or sum like that) in which the patient could alter their memories and cure their traumas

perhaps this journey through the lake is a way of curing dale's trauma so that he is eligible to be enlightened

[honest brook]

There's also Laura's corrupted soul at the end of the Mill

[floral veldt]

yeah, but she got corrupted after mr. crow extracted the dark cubes

perhaps it could symbolize how someone needs their bad memories to be who they are

and, without their bad experiences they lose their sense of self

[azure bay]

this one is far-fetched. Including the turning into a pigeon part. The devs said that the wings were due to Harvey's bird perspective

[floral veldt]

oh, where can I see more of what has been explained by them?

[azure bay]

idk, there are some magazines in Chinese that may document Q&A's on the spot

[floral veldt]

chinese oml

[azure bay]

or to keep an eye on people visiting the conventions

anyways

[azure bay]

in RL enlightenment isn't about leaving samsara. And it drifts further and further from becoming anthro

in Samsara Room defeating corruption is considered enlightenment

in The Past Within becoming a tree is considered such

[floral veldt]

someone could be enlightened multiple times?

[azure bay]

apparently

[floral veldt]

a bit weird... I assume that immortality does not equal enlightenment then

[azure bay]

I'm not sure we've seen immortality in the 1st place

[floral veldt]

well, mr crow has been alive for a some 100 years

[azure bay]

but look at him in The Cave

[floral veldt]

and considering he turned into a crow when he was already old

[azure bay]

he's clearly losing his powers

and needs to reconsume the elixir

[floral veldt]

could it be it just slows death more and more?

like this

[azure bay]

I think it actually grants some form of immortality but it gradually leaves the body

[floral veldt]

the line gets closer and closer, but never touches the x axis

he gets older snd older, weaker and weaker, but never dies

[azure bay]

nah

[floral veldt]

at the cost of drinking more and more elixir

[azure bay]

ok, with that in mind not sure

but I reckon he wouldn't age if they had enough of highly concentrated elixir stock

they are drinking a heavily diluted extract

[floral veldt]

when he first drank he skadadles to meet mr. owl

btw, how would he know him? would mr. owl be his friend?

could mr. owl have warned him of the price, and so aldous tricked william?

[honest brook]

I don't think he tricked William, they had the plan to bring him back to life

[azure bay]

I think the alchemists were creating the elixir for Owl based on Caroline's incomplete formula. And

William knew of Owl too

[floral veldt]

really? where is that stated? I might have missed it

[floral veldt]

well, see how that went L-aura

[azure bay]

"I need to leave, Mr. Owl needs me (of course you know who I'm talking about)"

[floral veldt]

hmmm

[azure bay]

that wasn't their fault

[floral veldt]

that might be reading in a bit too much... or maybe it's just me

but gee, I find it hard to think that someone would have wilingly taken the elixir, while knowing they would die

[azure bay]

the thing is, it doesn't matter who drinks the elixir 1st. Aldous could die just like William and his knowledge wouldn't do a thing. Besides, they did have a plan B

it was prepared in advance

[floral veldt]

really? it doesn't? I always thought someone had to die so the other could re-born

oh but james and the dog....

yeah sorry, 0 IQ moment

[azure bay]

exactly. Someone has to die but not right away

[floral veldt]

now that I'm thinking of it

we know that the elixir is not the only way of achieving enlightment

the eilanders tried it, well jacob got it

but then that would mean jacob was sacrificed... for himself?

[azure bay]

the devs said that you need the elixir which has many forms. Not sure they kept the Eilanders in mind but still, they may or may not have it after all

[honest brook]

Jakob got enlightened by sacrificing the cubes

[floral veldt]

didn't the family tried the same?

[azure bay]

actually Jakob was sacrificed for them and Caroline performed a more or less traditional elixir ritual on their souls

[floral veldt]

does that mean they got enlightened?