🤔｜theories

[cold moss]

are all of them definitely products of alchemy or is some of it metaphorical?

[errant estuary]

theyre all likely unnaturally born

[cold moss]

Also Rose seems to have unnaturally long life

But has not drunk the elixir, has not achieved enlightenment and is not a corrupted soul

I guess she exists in the lake?

[visual coral]

Frank was conceived with some magical flower
Rose was artificially created by Albert in a lab
Laura is William's CS reincarnated using Vanderbooms sacrifices

Leonard is the only normal one(kinda)

[visual coral]

In UB she called herself enlightened

She exists in the Lake as a tree and time doesn't exist in the Lake

[carmine field]

not really

she's 75 in TPW

[cold moss]

When does the past within take place?

I know very little about that game

[azure bay]

The Future takes place in 1984

It was in a puzzle

[cold moss]

guess that is within a human lifespan

I don't remeber one thing

what is her appearance at the end of Underground blossom?

is she aged?

in the forest

[azure bay]

There is no time there

[errant estuary]

this is my own take on tpw

[azure bay]

Technically, Laura's CS got there before Rose, timeline-wise.

[cold moss]

so her soul is able to indefinitely retain her personality and memories then?

ah but the forest is outside of time

[azure bay]

It seems so

[cold moss]

so she is able to see future events

but is she still in the timestream

[azure bay]

That's not what I'm thinking

More like Rose was there retroactively or smth

[cold moss]

Guess she kind of entered a weird place when she entered the clock and was absorbed by the tree

[azure bay]

She wasn't absorbed

[cold moss]

unlike her brothers

I might be misremebering

was it jus that the clock was wrapped in roots

[azure bay]

It was her

[cold moss]

or was she wrapped in roots inside the clock?

but she had a different fate to her brothers

who seemed to be sacrificed?

[azure bay]

The thing is, we don't know their fate

[cold moss]

Also Mr owl at one point says his time is limited, implying that his immortality is either somehow running out or that he is being called to some other purpose/transcending to an extent where he is unable to. What does this mean?

[azure bay]

Do you remember The Cave?

[cold moss]

Yes

[azure bay]

Do you remember Owl's state?

[cold moss]

my memory is fuzzy

ah in the diveing suit

not in the final room?

[azure bay]

I'm speaking of the cave itself

[cold moss]

if there I can't recall

the game right? or the location?

the cave paintings?

the book?

[azure bay]

More like location

[cold moss]

He is trapped there?

[azure bay]

Yes, but after he was freed, he required 1 final touch to normally operate

[cold moss]

but he still seems to have something going on, as he needs Dale to finish his work?

dammit my grasp on the lore seem far weaker then I thought

[azure bay]

There was 1 important things for us to do in the cave

For us and for Owl

[cold moss]

create the golden cube?

[azure bay]

That was after we left the cave

[cold moss]

lets see

Create more elixir

thats it

[azure bay]

Only it was called differently

[cold moss]

the drink?

[azure bay]

The extract

[cold moss]

it was an inferior elixir possibly?

[azure bay]

Technically speaking. It's important how it was inferior

[cold moss]

It was made from the bacteria in dog poo, so it is just made from generic life?

[azure bay]

These were not bacteria

Not every poop would do

[cold moss]

ah, as the dog is immortal

Details

so it is the extraction of immortal cells?

[azure bay]

No

[cold moss]

essence of some sort

from the excrement

[azure bay]

How dog is immortal?

[cold moss]

from the true elixir

so it is inferior because it is merely an extraction?

[azure bay]

It's inferior because they only get small quantity of it

[azure bay]

Why isn't Crow immortal?

[cold moss]

good point

I was going to say, why did he drink it

so they don't know how to produce more?

but why is the dog completly immortal?

and crow should be immortal since he went through the same process

So both of them are running out of immortality?

and the dog is some kind of anomaly even to them?

[azure bay]

To be extra precise, it's called the extract of the last elixir

[cold moss]

so the elixir made by James is somehow superior to the previous one?

Or the fact that another elixir was made weakens the previous one?

[azure bay]

They are literally extracting James'es elixir from dog's shit

[cold moss]

I got that

why is the question

ah

the first elixir ran out?

so they depend on the second?

though that will run out too

by that logic

[remote remnant]

if it ran out in 1971 it still lasts a good 100 years which is good

[cold moss]

things seem to go on a ~100 year cycle generally in RL

[azure bay]

That's my dude

[cold moss]

So in Dales time they are at the end of their supply

death is finally catching up

and Dale is the next step

[remote remnant]

that means the dog will die soon

😭

[cold moss]

He had a good life

but what of Harvey?

[remote remnant]

i doubt he needs the elixir

he's just built different

he's been here since paradise and thats before/during the making of the elixir

[errant estuary]

plot twist: the dog lives but both mr owl and mr crow get struck by lightning for their behavior

[azure bay]

I doubt we can trust Underground Blossom. All the other games say in many different ways that he's a bird

[remote remnant]

hotel?

[cold moss]

secret cutscene in birthday

[azure bay]

The only exception but the very next year he died and was resurrected by Owl personally

And Owl can't create asuras

[errant estuary]

harvey is harvey lol /j

[cold moss]

but maybe so

do we know of his origins?

could he be something different?

[remote remnant]

maybe harvey is the friends we made along the way

[azure bay]

The devs said only that he came from a black egg

[cold moss]

you say that...

[cold moss]

but what if...

[queen tendon]

Soooo, why does mr owl have a statue in underground blossom?

[honest brook]

well the stations in Underground Blossom aren't meant to be "real"

[queen tendon]

Oh, yeah that makes more sense lol-

[steel imp]

You usually don't discuss Harvey

[cold moss]

What does that mean?

is Harvey lore breaking?

[azure bay]

Harvey is confusing

We see him in Paradise as a birb which may or may not be just an easter egg or (considering recent installments) time travel

but since the devs seemingly implied that Harvey was originally ("[he came] from a black egg") a bird it's probably none of that

the question remains. How did he become an asura? The elixir is arguably the only way we know but it didn't really work on James's dog

then we have much of strong evidence that Harvey ceased to be asura

[errant estuary]

maybe james dog didnt feel like becoming an anthro

i mean, he lost his best friend

[azure bay]

I see nothing that would make this guess stand out among everything else we could throw at the wall

[errant estuary]

fair

but if we bring up the ageless dog, dogs can get pretty depressed from losing their humans

[azure bay]

only that doesn't really seem to be the case

it was just there eating and pooping before James died and it continues being there eating and pooping long after

for some reason, even after Rose and Laura are gone from the lake

[errant estuary]

but as far as im guessing, harvey never had the elixir, and was just how he was all the time

[azure bay]

I'm telling ya, the devs said, he was born from an egg

therefore, he used to be a bird

[errant estuary]

he is a bird

just a fucked up one that sometimes grows arms

[azure bay]

except for Hotel

he had his time to somehow become an eldritch being

[errant estuary]

but yeah, his ass did not drink the elixir

for sure

[azure bay]

I can't be sure of that because the devs said "to become enlightened you need elixir and elixir has many forms"

[errant estuary]

oh

[azure bay]

idk how the Eilanders come into this

are they an exception?

[errant estuary]

pov, harvey making an elixir (ram several of the species of the lake into one, creating a fishy frankenstein’s monster)

https://tenor.com/view/brochjam-caique-tea-coffee-mug-gif-26688418

[azure bay]

or is killing a special person on a special day for a special deity somehow an elixir too? Or maybe the deity can make an elixir and the whole ritual was simply to appease it?

[errant estuary]

i always assumed they became asuras naturally, by technically devoting themselves to the will of the lake, but for the wrong reasons

but it might be a stealth elixir (i dont find this interesting, though, so i smoke the copium)

[azure bay]

considering that the golden cube was teased as a form of elixir in The Cave and in TPW it works nothing like that I reckon anything could be an elixir

[errant estuary]

me making a cheese sandwich is an elixir /lh

[azure bay]

so back to Harvey

he was a bird until he wasn't in Hotel

[errant estuary]

yeah

[azure bay]

and he was an asura until he wasn't a year after

[errant estuary]

fun fact, african greys live very long, and sometimes will outlive their humans

i just think that’s funny/sad relating to harvey

[azure bay]

he legit died, Owl personally gave him a new life but I really doubt he was able to fully restore him

[errant estuary]

mhm

i mean, he killed folks

[azure bay]

what would it change?

[errant estuary]

it would definitely degrade his form, so he’s lucky to just be a normal parrot with longevity

[azure bay]

I don't witness og karma in RL

good people get screwed for actions of bad people who actually get what they want all across the series

[errant estuary]

in my mind, the elixir is a form of cheat code

because it is artificial enlightenment

[azure bay]

in this universe I see nothing but cheat codes

killing the 1stborn

sacrificing 10 human organs

extracting bad memories

[errant estuary]

exactly

and sometimes, that’s how things go

[azure bay]

I mean it's so wide-spread and doesn't fit a system based on morality at all so I really doubt such system exists

[errant estuary]

i see

[azure bay]

especially considering how different enlightenment is and that corrupted souls aren't always ghosts

[floral mauve]

I still believe that the dates in Roots tombstone are simply wrong and they didnt bother changing it for the sake of puzzle combination

[covert wyvern]

I think that's possible!

But unfortunate for my list - I'm doing my best haha

[floral mauve]

*whisper at Robin

[carmine field]

Was there no way to change it so that the dates were corrected and the sums continued to result in the correct password?

hmmm the problem lies in the months in which Ida and Emma died, the sum of which would need to result in 22

both Ida and Emma died during summer, damn

ye there's no way

[floral mauve]

I thought they changed it once already

but it was still incorrect

maybe it connects to some details in roots comics ?

[cold moss]

Could Harvy be something from the lake or otherwise supernatural outside of the regular cosmology?

i.e. not really a parrot

[azure bay]

samsara wheels say he's an animal

[cold moss]

unlike the dog, who is a dog, or Mr Owl who is an enlightened human

[cold moss]

But what was the Birthday secret cutscene then?

and why does he seem to be completly immortal

[carmine field]

he died as a hybrid and Mr. Owl ressurected him as an animal

[azure bay]

It's weird. It seems this time I'm the last to notice that it's the same photo

• Dale

[floral mauve]

bruh

[azure bay]

COINSIDENCE?!!

||Yeah, I think it is||

[untold stump]

Really fueling that "Dale is a part of Laura's CS" theory

[dire cobalt]

WAIT OH MY LORD

i mean it always confused me why dale is the one who kills laura in paradox ch 2

that would make a lot of sense

[azure bay]

what theory?

[errant estuary]

mr owl and mr crow gaslighting him probably

he is being prepared for the event

[azure bay]

Dale killing Laura in the dream of Paradox is a crucial part for the loop. Not killing Laura is one of the ways to stop it for good

[errant estuary]

yeah

[untold stump]

I thought I saw it brought up here, Dale's CS with access to the Lake murdered Laura as we saw it in Seasons. Used to explain why she unalived herself before ub came and showed why she actually did it

Ig we can still make it hold up but ub did give a strong counterargument

[azure bay]

technically speaking, it was Laura who killed herself, as it's clearly seen in The Cave

a CS doing that was never literal, as it turns out

but a CS pushing her towards suicide could be the way around... If not for UB

[stone bramble]

would you guys call william a ghost rather than a corrupted soul in roots?

[sudden dust]

he feels like a sort of both

[stone bramble]

i’m just realizing the paradox that is us playing as william’s pov yet we see his corpse in the firewood level

[sudden dust]

and he can seemingly interact and communicate with/see the intents of other characters

[stone bramble]

and that he’s invisible

yeee

[sudden dust]

roots william is a bit confusing

the ouija part implies he cant directly speak with the characters

and only rose talks to him

but you can seemingly tell the emotions and wants of other characters through thought bubbles

it might be just for gameplay though

[stone bramble]

yeee I think stuff like handing the vanderbooms their instruments are their actions while stuff like going to save leonard in war is william’s

[sudden dust]

who do you think is with ida at the level with the tarot cards

or is she just reading fortunes by herself

[stone bramble]

maybe

her reading william’s future is funny but I think maybe she was preparing to know the family she was gonna marry into

[azure bay]

I think she can see William and it's his future she's telling

[azure bay]

So are the guests, so is Caroline. Incorporeal corrupted souls aren't something rare. They are called souls and they are called hungry ghosts.

It's the opposite that used to confuse me. When it's a body that gets corrupted. Now it's clear that the devs are forcing an idea that CS are also dark sides of ours.

[errant estuary]

“oh, hi granduncle in law who is also a sleep paralysis demon, wanna read your fortune?” /j

iconic behavior to be honest

[azure bay]

actually it's funny how there's at least 1 CS in every single game

[errant estuary]

ida is so done with this, she just shows william the most horrifying fates imaginable, and looks at him like, “yes, this is your fault”

[azure bay]

dunno William doesn't seem to mind

neither does she

[errant estuary]

course he doesnt, hell be okay

ida knowing this family will be the end of her, but marrying into it anyways: 💅💅💅💅💅💅

[dire cobalt]

I WAS REPLAYING ROOTS YESTERDAY AND THINKING THAT IDA IS LIKE ._. 🔮

[errant estuary]

“you know what, fine, but only because i like your grandnephew ”

[strange raft]

So have people gotten UB mostly figured out by now?

[errant estuary]

yeah

id say it is one of the more clear sequences of events

[azure bay]

@strange raft except for the pickpocket and the endings

[strange raft]

the pickpocket kind of looked like nicholas right?

someone make a crackhead theory on this

[errant estuary]

(crackhead theory) pickpocket is actually davids great great great great grandkid who does tax fraud

[vivid bridge]

🤨

I mean on the surface sure

but the whole game is such a mess of unclear messages and framing devices

idk

[azure bay]

what messages confuse you?

[vivid bridge]

everything at the end with Laura and the stupid blossoming shit

It feels like they're just writing nonsense to make it sound vague and rusty lake-ish

[floral mauve]

They played the poetical card

[vivid bridge]

exactly

the whole game is so vague. It wants to tell us something about Laura but because everything is buried under three layers of poetry and metaphors, it tells us nothing. The train makes no sense, none of the details we see can be taken as actual information, it contradicts previous games, etc

like, is the thief even a real person? Cause it seems like everything else about the train stations is metaphorical

[carmine field]

both terms are appliable tbh

under samsara view, corrupted souls are ghosts

the devs themselves called the corrupted souls "hungry ghosts" in Caroline's book, so the term is canonical even outside of Sanskrit

[wheat ore]

what is caroline's book ? and Sanskrit ?

[azure bay]

Caroline's book it the one we see in Paradise and Paradox. However it was continued by successors later on

and Sanskrit is an old Indian language

[carmine field]

Ty for answering, Nowhere

Sanskrit words have appeared in games since Birthday

Generally refer to the six realms of Samsara

These six realms are how we categorize each character (Mr. Crow and probably Owl are Asura, humans are Manusya, animals are Tiryagioni, corrupted souls are Preta, etc)

[vivid bridge]

I guess I never questioned this but why wouldn't Owl be an asura?

He drinks the same elixir as Crow in The Cave

[carmine field]

I also think he totally fits Asura, especially after the devs' talk about Deva

Still, I keep a space in my head of “what if not?” because he was never referred to as Asura directly

And some believe that the partnership between him and Crow may represent the alliance between Deva and Asura in the search for the Nectar (which has interesting parallels with the Elixir) in Samudra Manthana

[vivid bridge]

Interesting

[carmine field]

That idea of ​​the Elixir killing someone and making someone else immortal could very well have come from Samudra Manthana

It is worth taking a look

[wheat ore]

ah, thanks !!

[plucky tusk]

I am crazy but I'm watching all the tapes in Blossom and one image keeps standing out to me.
Moon lit sky, looks like a red lake, a lot of shadow figures in the foreground and something yellow to the side.

Maybe its a cool Easter egg to promote paradise

This was on tape W

[azure bay]

You mean it's exclusive?

[plucky tusk]

In game in one of the tapes labelled W

[azure bay]

that means that one of the seekers presented themselves as W

[errant estuary]

w-ow

[plucky tusk]

I just realised, this image shows up on a few tapes😅
Still looks cool though

[errant estuary]

i wonder what it might be

hopefully not the worst of all family reuinions /j

[azure bay]

I took a look, these are fireworks

including the supposed moon

[errant estuary]

Wonderful

[plucky tusk]

the one guy looks like he could possibly be wearing a hat

[azure bay]

and there's also a skyline of some city

[plucky tusk]

almost like a ranger hat or cowboy hat

[azure bay]

I mean, I get you, but I don't see a hat. I think it's the TV interference effect

[errant estuary]

imagine being able to listen to fireworks without simply freaking out

0/10 unrealistic tape film

[plucky tusk]

lol

[azure bay]

Is it me or these nsfw suckers are seen way too often lately?

[covert wyvern]

it's a lot.

but getting them autobanned is pretty much the best we can do 😅

[azure bay]

It works, I'd say

[covert wyvern]

I'd agree! but the ghost "pings" in channels is unfortunate lol

[floral mauve]

thats what I get

like I always receive the notification of someone wrote anything here but it turned out to be nothing

[wheat ore]

is that what it is ??? I've been wondering why they appeared as unread so often.

[covert wyvern]

Yes, that's bots.

but they're hardly worth discussing, and definitely not in this channel.

[wheat ore]

fair enough. I have a theory : what if Alberto being fed wine at birth impacted him ? maybe that's even where his beautiful red mark on his head came from ?

[azure bay]

He was pretty much born with it

speaking of wine, that depends

technically speaking alcohol used to be a common child tranquillizer

I think every sibling got their share of milk, water and wine

but does the scene mean Albert got more of it?

was he a particularly restless child?

if so, did wine change much?

[wheat ore]

alcohol used to be a child tranquiliser ? that's interesting. but I feel like not just alcohol but full on red wine has got to mess with something, especially at a young age, in this case his birth

[azure bay]

That would arguably be the same for the other siblings

[azure bay]

red wine is relatively weak. what else would you expect?

[wheat ore]

I did not know red wine was weak ! I thought it was a pretty strong drink no ? and isn't any kind of alcohol really strong for a newborn ?

[azure bay]

but most importantly, it's a waste🥂

[stone bramble]

albert getting wine as a baby is so 😭😭😭 it’s not even about the lack of resources mary had cause she got the water from the rain

mary really wanted each of her babies to have different aesthetics I guess

[azure bay]

I'd rather say, the devs are hinting at something

[stone bramble]

I like the interpretation of each of the bottle representing how each child was raised samuel being nurtured, emma neglect, albert abused

[vivid bridge]

I think they just represent the three kids in general. Samuel is the normal kid (milk), Emma likes flowers (water) and Albert is fucked up (wine/blood association)

[carmine field]

I agree with Ellesian

[carmine field]

In addition to this matter, I don't think Mary was actually abusive towards Albert

Mary does not appear to have been one of Albert's targets

She probably just neglected him

[stone bramble]

he was abused by emma and samuel tho

the whole milk thing I think can be interpreted as nature or nurtured or the lader whatever floats boat

[carmine field]

ye, at least in childhood

[carmine field]

My bet

[vivid bridge]

very likely

those vhs screenshots are interesting because some of them are clearly rose's lab from TPW

its weird because two of the rooms in the VHS tape are cleary from the room in The Future but some of them aren't

which makes it confusing

the first one is 1:1 while the second one is a bit different but seems to be the same place narratively

actually...

[carmine field]

It's probably another room in the same lab/complex

[vivid bridge]

it is, yeah

the thing I just noticed

the second vhs image, which shows the CS in the pickle jar, has an arrow at the bottom, implying its not a whole turnaround room but just a single screen

but since we also have the first vhs image ,which is 100% the room from TPW, that implies that the image with the CS is a different room

so I could see the door with the ⚠️ sign leading to the CS room

[carmine field]

👁️

It is also worth pointing out that only the room that we know to be TPW has a skirting board

Baseboard

idk how is it called

[vivid bridge]

its also weird that the TPW-screen is from the TPW perspective where you don't see the corners of the room while the other three screens do have the corners

though that might just be a side effect of reusing TPW assets

[carmine field]

so cube escape-like

[vivid bridge]

yeah

its also weird how small the rooms in the vhs are

like, they don't seem to be the actual size of the game

but the one with the soul is clearly a screenshot from a playable game

another weird thing is that none of these screens seem to be in a subway

also if we scale the soul image to game size, you can tell that the arrow size is completely different

[carmine field]

I assume they are small rooms

But it's strange that it doesn't have skirting boards, unlike TPW room and BKM station

It's possible that it's just a design error (it's curious that the rooms are so empty, as if it wasn't the final version)

[vivid bridge]

I was thinking, like, maybe these are like beta screenshots? Maybe of TPW when it was still a single player game

but that also doesn't really make much sense

[carmine field]

ye

But I don't doubt it's beta screenshots, Rusty Lake show things before they're ready

The UB teaser in BKM's ARG has a scene that didn't happen, apart from several differences in the trailers

[vivid bridge]

but the vhs images are too different

[carmine field]

wdym?

[vivid bridge]

again, with them having such weird proportions, it makes me question if they were ever playable

but the soul image does have an arrow

but even that could just be a mockup?

but they also don't have skirting boards like the new teaser image

[carmine field]

oh true

[wheat ore]

I actually really need to play the BKM area in UB, how do I access it ? like what is the phone number please ?

[carmine field]

||74222||

all information is in the document pinned in #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

[remote remnant]

what if someone cleaned the lake and it stopped being rusty? would that stop all the negativity?

[azure bay]

honestly, we've never seen it truly rusty

[wheat ore]

looks rather rusty to me!

[azure bay]

that's just a logo

we have so many landscapes in so many seasons and times of day

we've even dived into the lake

no rust

[vivid bridge]

they never really brought that back

[azure bay]

I can bet they just took the color from the logo withought a second thought

[errant estuary]

we cant, ive tried

that is just a new way for the lake to break us and drive us to madness

[daring wraith]

<@&358613639554400258>

[untold stump]

.ban @sleek ibex nsfw

[sweet zephyr]

valerion16 was banned.

[west basin]

What if The White Door also ran through Laura's head too?

To have her appear throughout Cube Escape as a kid on the tv?

[azure bay]

Why also? Who else?

[west basin]

If they saw that many people who helped her though, I wonder if Sarah was a figment?

(BTW its been a spell since the white door, am I saying the right names?)

[azure bay]

Sorry can you start over? I'm a bit confused

@west basin

[west basin]

What if The white cube game, was connected with Bob and Laura?

[azure bay]

What the white cube game?

[west basin]

Erm The White Door...

[vivid mountain]

Idk if this counts as a theory but I think Albert genuinely loved rose

[daring wraith]

Very likely considering the hurdles he has gone through to, you know, bring her into existence.

[vivid mountain]

I want to see more about him. I know we already have a lot but I just wonder about his mental health and a lot of his reasons

[west basin]

Yeah, more about Albert's mental health, I kind of wonder what did made him ...

[errant estuary]

to me, he held a lot of grudges, because he never managed to develop a preservable sense of self or confidence

[west basin]

Yeah to me, he just abused and held a lot of grudges without talking it through with his family.

[azure bay]

in Underground Blossom we've got one of TWD doctors prescribing Laura Prozac. On the other hand he seemed very genuinely trying to help admitting that Prozac is not a solution in itself

So I don't think they were doing something extreme to her

And I don't see how her younger-self on the TV would prove anything

@west basin can you elaborate your logic about this?

[west basin]

Maybe that is self reflection of her younger self, a little bit of self reflection of her losing her mother.

[azure bay]

don't see how it's connected specifically to TWD but that's actually an interesting point. For me, it was always an early UB teaser. At the time I didn't know that was her breaking point

[daring wraith]

I always interpreted the Vanderbooms to be a tragic tale of abuse. Most of the family, to keep it quite spoiler free if somebody has yet to catch up, has their fates and apparent free arbiter already decided by their ancestor's choices.

It's quite a mature perspective, but I believe that, while some of their actions should definitely come into question, they should also be given a victim plea. Hubris, hubris always the downfall.

[west basin]

Do not even throw some trailers away though, they could be canon.

[west basin]

I think that everything in a way, mental health with Laura started early age, but before she lost ||Harvey and Rose||. She was really happy.

[errant estuary]

yeah

i do think as a child she was happy, but she most definitely was born with the predisposition to mental health issues inherited from her family because it’s my scrunkly and i get to project onto her

[west basin]

I wonder who do you play through in Samsara room?

[west basin]

Right on the money. My way of head canon just a few seconds ago.

[errant estuary]

||the spirit transitioning between william vanderboom and laura vanderboom||

[west basin]

Thanks. ||There was a few major clues with the paintings and Willy being locked in a grandfather's clock...||

[errant estuary]

i also think that laura wasnt just depressed, but also riddled with paranoia and mismedicated

[west basin]

yeah

I honestly just do not see her as depressed as a kid, until that revealing image of CE TV.

[azure bay]

Since UB I'm against mismedication. Dr. Clark was genuine about Prozac not being able to solve the problem yet giving some insight

Everything was going as it should have

Laura wasn't strong enough to continue

[west basin]

Laura was never strong for every thing that flew over her, I think in school was her best.

[west basin]

Altough if the puppy lived forever, why is he always stuck in the cave?

[grizzled bluff]

No rent

[west basin]

But who is going to feed him and take him for walks?

[vivid mountain]

no one needs too, he is immortal he can’t die from starvation

[west basin]

And a full bladder, and a full intensive?

[vivid mountain]

He just pees on the floor probably

[west basin]

That aweful smell though wafting in the room though.....

[covert wyvern]

please keep Dale-E generations in #🩸｜general-chat:)

[alpine hollow]

how would I know 😭

[carmine field]

The dog is probably fed by Owl and Crow

[west basin]

Yeah.... hmmm...

[vivid bridge]

Dale-E has an updated version of one of the VHS rooms

that door on the side is new

[west basin]

is it safe to know.. About Laura's darker secrets though, and her lighter ones?

[floral mauve]

what that suppose to mean

[west basin]

Meaning if it was really safe if Bob knew her flaws and able to find real love with her.

[floral mauve]

I assume Bob would still love her but it doesnt matter since Laura decided to conceal about it

and what exactly are her flaws? childhood trauma induced mental illness?

[floral mauve]

ppl have guessed WIlliam but now after UB it seems to be just this

[west basin]

Hmm.... Her childhood tramas that melted to her emotional state, as the corrupted soul brewed with her.

Protected her away from her only family she knew, Dale.

[azure bay]

Dale is no family

And corrupted souls aren't separate entities having their own minds

subpersonalities at most

[west basin]

Are you sure?

Have you played birthday?

[azure bay]

of course I did

[west basin]

Mr. Owl was a friend to him, also just about every one he did touch was close with him.

I think that Mr. Owl was his adopted brother.

[azure bay]

I'm getting confused

who is whose brother?

[west basin]

I thought the reason why he got mail was because Mr. Owl asked his home address, only a few family members should know about home addresses right?

[azure bay]

Cube Escape: Birthday isn't the original event. Look at it either like an altered memory or time travel. Owl sent nothing originally

[west basin]

He did sent a letter.

How would he know about where Dale lived without telephone books?

[azure bay]

in the altered memory/after they traveled back in time

If Dale got the letter from the start there wouldn't be any reason to go back. With Owl's help Dale would prevent his family's death right away

as if they never died

[west basin]

How would he would just know about everything though, even putting on the stamp on the letter the certian kind of ones.... If that was true, then the older Dale (Rabbit) would of know how to fire the gun. Ah....

they never died in the first time around without the machine.

[azure bay]

I'm saying that Dale's parents originally died

and Dale got no letter

then Dale went back and got Owl's letter and help

thus they prevented the massacre

[west basin]

So are you talking before he did cut the cake?

[azure bay]

even before the game started

the letter is just a half of the story

[west basin]

Like...duration of Seasons?

[azure bay]

Owl's present is even more crucial for the plan

and it was in the game from the start

[west basin]

How though?

If the parent's were not killed, then how did Dale become happy with them?

Who were Dale's parents even though in the game, itself, said about "This is your mother and this is your father.."

[azure bay]

wait

can we trace back a lot?

[west basin]

I am starting to become more confused though... Sure..

What game do you want to trace back though?

[azure bay]

Hmm.... Her childhood tramas that melted to her emotional state, as the corrupted soul brewed with her.
Protected her away from her only family she knew, Dale.
Reiterate this. Whose childhood trauma, whose family?

[west basin]

Laura's.

Laura's as an "adult." Where as Dale helped her out so intertwining down to the center of starting to ask the question's "Where is my friend at Dale?"

[azure bay]

Laura and Dale never met

[west basin]

Over all are you talking about?

[azure bay]

I'm talking so far. The game where they finally meet for real isn't out yet

[west basin]

Or are you saying in general of Birthday itself?

then...

What did you really understand, if Dale was an illusion throughout his parent's, his carrer, even as of meeting up with everyone..

[azure bay]

no, Dale's life (at least in general) is pretty real

[west basin]

I see, but you just said a bit ago...

[azure bay]

CE Birthday and CE Theatre are changed

they are technically modified memories

[west basin]

Yes over all.

I think of the Lady in the lake sence from time to time.

[azure bay]

and what do you think?

[west basin]

I think that is the most horrifying scene and entire Theater, I have ever seen in the entire OG.

Just the way the stage is set, and how it is like perfect tone towards the entire behind "who is Mr. Owl, and why does he have Harvey on his shoulder."

Its like an excellent movie.

[azure bay]

<@&358613639554400258>

[carmine field]

Still no baseboards

Maybe this is where the memories at BKM are drawn from?

You buy the service and go to that place

[vivid bridge]

Have we ever had a door on the side of a room? Maybe this new area will have you go between a bunch of smaller rooms in like a 3D maze fashion

Thats why the rooms are smaller, to fit the doors on the side

[azure bay]

I tend to agree

[vivid bridge]

Speaking of which, the "There are secrets to be found behind every door" is probably referring to this very, uhhh, door-heavy gameplay style

[west basin]

||Best kept memories.. ||

[azure bay]

what was that for?

[west basin]

||Ida... for it.. Sorry brain not here.||

[azure bay]

what is that supposed to mean?

[west basin]

Nothing.

[azure bay]

then why?

[west basin]

Well if they all say about the Best Kept memory, I think that Ida's has like some of her own best kept memory.

[azure bay]

who are "they"?

how would Ida have her own BKM?

and most importantly in what form

[west basin]

Not going throughout the entire Under ground game, but what if Ida would have some of her favorite memories she did n't say to anyone in the game.

Like what would of she would of done before the tarots, what was she like as a child?

[azure bay]

How's Ida related to Underground Blossom?

[west basin]

She is not, I am saying without lifting up through Underground Blossom, what secrets did she kept when she was younger?

I am only thinking of her in Roots, and no other game.

[azure bay]

and why do you mention BKM?

[west basin]

As a phrase.

A golden memory.

like "What is your best kept memory of the past.?"

[floral mauve]

wha

[azure bay]

I don't think "best kept memory" is an expression

[west basin]

"Golden memories"

Memories you keep secret without telling anyone else.

your best kept ones.

What if Ida found everything else after like...oh doing magic, will she head to the road or stay in town?

[azure bay]

found what?

[west basin]

Found herself with Albert, and teaching him voodoo.

[errant estuary]

does ida have cubes?

[azure bay]

technically everyone has cubes. Not everyone can access them

[errant estuary]

i meant extracted cubes

[sweet tulip]

since when did Ida teach Albert voodoo ?
she doesn't even know voodoo as far as we know
she's a fortune teller

[azure bay]

she could? she had them all around her level

[sweet tulip]

did she ?

well she had dolls I suppose

[azure bay]

yeah, they represented tarot cards

[sweet tulip]

I don't think it's connected to voodoo
they're two very separate cultures

[azure bay]

Here I agree but they look the same otherwise

the dolls I mean

[sweet tulip]

Albert probably just used the same dolls

or it's an asset reuse

[west basin]

If Ida did teach, it was inside the cards, since they had symbols of each cube.

[azure bay]

what each cube?

[west basin]

Yeah, for whatever ones we have stumbled for each symbol before.

Wood,fire,ice,bone,stone.etc.

Basis for magic.

[floral mauve]

wha

[azure bay]

why do you think UB cubes are magical?

[west basin]

Nh for roots.

Nah for roots...

Symbols we do see through the game.

[azure bay]

still

I don't recall these symbols being inherently magical

[west basin]

I am not looking at Under ground either, I am looking at roots.

Magic

Of every room.

[azure bay]

what every room?

[azure bay]

.

[west basin]

Each puzzle

Each puzzle we had to replay the entire game three times to solve each clue.

[azure bay]

and what is so magical about puzzles?

[azure bay]

.

[west basin]

Nowhere you do not have to tag me every time, I will come on here...this isn't twitter.

[azure bay]

as you wish

[west basin]

Thank you, and besides discord is much slower of where I can easily scroll up....

[covert wyvern]

There's no need to drag this out.

you've found mutual understanding now you can get back to theories

[west basin]

Yeah I still think that Ida found Albert as they where young, and she taught him some spells on and off, showed him about each tarot cards.

[azure bay]

I really doubt that. She has next to no way to have grown up by the lake.

she's a traveler by definition

Even if she was settled as a child, I doubt she'd return to her home region

and if she did she'd probably have a normal home there instead of relying on a tent

If anything, I think Albert's sources of knowledge were his granduncles' journals

and maybe that mysterious bird-like corrupted soul

[west basin]

Grand uncle's journals? Refresh my mind of who was Albert's family.

[azure bay]

Willian and Aldous Vanderbooms

[errant estuary]

the vanderbooms

[azure bay]

the alchemist brothers

James inherited their lab and at least some of their works

and Albert too at least to some extent

[visual pivot]

Hi, I'm not sure if this is allowed but I am starting work on some YouTube lore videos for the rusty lake games and I wanted to know if anyone was interested in helping with the theorizing part

[west basin]

Yes it is allowed, just head over to #🎨｜fan-creations

Ah. the Alchimest brothers. I need to replay the longest rusty lake games imho, wich is all of them.

[azure bay]

As a theorist, I suggest doing it in 2 stages.

1. You isolate yourself replaying all the games (with all achievements) and trying to understand when each of them takes place and what it means for the wider narrative.

2. You discuss it with other theorists

[errant estuary]

best i can do is make theories about things like what the theater smells like

[covert wyvern]

an important contribution

[visual pivot]

I agree lol

[errant estuary]

it probably smells like an antique shop and vomit tbh

[vivid mountain]

play the games in chronological order

[barren cove]

I think you have to figure out the order yourself after playing. That way only your thoughts are in your videos

[azure bay]

I agree with starting the theorist's journey on one's own but ignoring the community's collective knowledge isn't the way to go

[vivid mountain]

I think that being a theorist can just be explaining the community’s theories in a simple terms and adding more details

[azure bay]

I'd rather say that being a theorist is more about understanding than spreading. Knowing how to explain things is a great skill to have but if you use it to convey mistakes and misconceptions you arguably do more harm than good.

MatPat was criticized by many communities for not diving deep enough and prioritizing "the show" instead

[visual pivot]

Thank you for this, I had been putting together something similar but I’m glad to have something from someone who already collected that information

I personally find it less important that the ideas are solely my own and more important that the concrete information is correct and the theories are plausible. This is part of why I asked here if anyone wanted to help, because I wanted to be able to credit people where possible. I feel like since I’ve played the games a few times each, I’ve had the chance to form at least some of my own impressions, but I don’t want to be closed-minded when it comes to others’ ideas

[azure bay]

Personally I'd never decline a good lore discussion so count me in 😁

I just hope that a new theorist will mean new ideas

It makes the discussions more thrilling

[carmine field]

Videos explaining the lore are always welcome, especially when you dig deeper and really discuss it with the community

It's normal to have some disagreements and I'd be happy to hear what you have to say

[carmine field]

Also consider what nowhere said ^

[vivid bridge]

Sounds interesting

[west basin]

I say for each train station as rose said "years" I think that Harvey was just guarding her throughout the entire OG nine games inside Cube Escape.

I think that UG is connected through the Cube Escape games, as majorly hinted inside Harvey's box.

[latent vortex]

A question though that I have even though it's also a theory

Okay so this cube escape cave is the first chapter of how that elixir of life was made

I know that in rusty lake roots we are introduced of the elixir of life from Mr crow and Alden VanDerboom is the main founder of The elixir but what if the main elixir was made in the cave exactly not under the house

Because then we meet Mr owl after we give them the elixir

And then Mr crowe apologizes for Alden

And Harvey and Mr crow are in every game.. if I did the right thing or as a process of the game I could rather touch them some of them will speak the other will not which is a bit something out of my theory but it is kind of related since somehow they both know each other a bit or they don't I don't know

[bronze valve]

I thought Caroline was the first person to figure out how the elixir was made, before Paradise happend

I think she also did it in a cave, but a different one, the one that you enter through the well

[azure bay]

tbh, for the majority of CE there's no one for Harvey to guard anymore since Laura's dead and does nothing to change that for most of the time

[azure bay]

what is hinted in HB and how?

[azure bay]

Not exactly. It's not how the elixir is made it's how the ready-made elixir is extracted after being consumed 100 years ago

[azure bay]

I feel obligated to correct you. There were 2 brothers, Aldous and William Vanderboom. William is considered the elixir creator and he died, Aldous became Mr. Crow

[latent vortex]

I know but I just forget the names and remember names

When I wrote this I had my ADHD kicking in a lot so I don't really remember names sometimes because of pressure and yes I understand the fact that Aldous and William I just get confused a lot...

And sorry if I offended you accidentally.

[azure bay]

you didn't

I'm just trying to help

[azure bay]

does he though?

[latent vortex]

Yes as I remember though

[latent vortex]

Well thank you

[latent vortex]

It's in the beginning of rusty lake roots

[azure bay]

ah that,

I thought you were still speaking of The Cave

[latent vortex]

No I'm actually talking about the three games that the elixir appeared in

Cave and then roots and then paradise

Though it's just a theory a questionable one...

[azure bay]

I'm sorry but I feel a bit lost. What's your theory exactly? What does it state?

[latent vortex]

My theory was that the first elixir was made in the cave game and then it's found out when the detective went to the cave.

And it's the place when William died .

The main reasons why those Shadows that passes by after you know puzzle those Shadows that passes by are there in the cave

And then The story goes to roots where it explains in further detail of how it happened the death of William.

And how William is a lost soul.

And it talks about how William is going through his family collecting sacrifices for him to return Life by the name of Laura

(first few games I didn't understand who is Laura or who is Laura vanderboom as there is no direct explanation of who she was in the first few games I played)

Please start connecting dots and I found out that cave was the first game and then roots and then paradise

And the game from roots are splitted in two in the middle of the game .

So one talks about paradise and the other talks to continue about roots.

And then after that if I noticed furthermore I realized further that hotel comes after those two games so those two split then go back together in one game

[azure bay]

What are you saying exactly? That Roots take place after The Cave chronologically or it's the players who are meant to play Roots next?

[latent vortex]

The Lore is still kind of confusing for me so I guess so because cave explained how The elixir was made by William and then in roots we saw William and Aldous drink the elixir...

And then after that in the middle of roots when that child survived from Albert's killing the story here got into two stories one in a separated game and the other continued

I'm talking about paradise and roots now.

I don't assume things but I just think it's just a theory to be honest because the story is still not obvious to me.

[azure bay]

wait, are you trying to say that the boy Albert kept in the well was in Paradise?

[latent vortex]

Yes is the player in the paradise.

I mean it's mentioned in the paradise story that his mother saved him from his father by sending him to the rusty lake.

He then got adopted by the vanderboom family

And now when he became an adult he got back to paradise.

As I said in the middle of roots the story separated in half one continued the story and the other went to paradise

[azure bay]

I'm afraid you are wrong about a lot of things. Let me put them together for you using dates generously provided by the devs

[latent vortex]

Ok

[azure bay]

and of course, names

[latent vortex]

Yes thank you.

[azure bay]

the earliest game in the chronology is Paradise even though it came out after Hotel, Roots and The Cave

[latent vortex]

Mhm

[azure bay]

There, we play as Jakob Eilander, the 1stborn of Caroline, Nicolas and I'd say of their cult worshiping the lake

Caroline was the 1st creator of the elixir of life and death we know

and she used it to make Jakob rebirth as Mr. Owl

The rest of the cult were reborn as the future guests of the Hotel that Mr. Owl later constructed on Paradise island

the 1st half of Roots goes next

the alchemist brothers (or at least William) have recreated Caroline's elixir

maybe from scratch

maybe Mr. Owl gave them everything he had except for the missing ingredient Caroline took to the grave with her

then William dies, Aldous becomes Mr. Crow for the 1st time and goes to further work for Owl promising William's ghost help with rebirth

that was the secret prologue, then the main game starts

[latent vortex]

Wait there is a secret prologue..?

[azure bay]

James arrives at RL to inherit the house and uncle's lab

[azure bay]

I think you know what I'm talking about. The secret level we get in the end where William actually creates the elixir.

[latent vortex]

Ohhh

My heart fell into my stomach for a second.

[azure bay]

yeah, no worries

oh, I forgot the dates

[latent vortex]

And I'm so sorry for the trouble I am kind of just getting confused in the middle of the Lord especially that I played all the games and I can't really connect the dots correctly...

Because you know they don't really put the years of the games until it's something about the story..

[azure bay]

they usually do

sometimes it's less obvious

[latent vortex]

Yes they usually do but sometimes they don't put it in cube escape games because sometimes they have something important to the story

Like it has something like a secret or a part of the main story that is missing from the game and exists in the cube escape...

[azure bay]

for instance, I know that Paradise takes place in 1796 because it's the year when Nicolas's letter to Jakob was written

[latent vortex]

Hmmm

[azure bay]

The main story of Roots starts in 1860, it was announced loud and clear

[latent vortex]

Yea

[azure bay]

the secret prologue where William dies takes place in 1859, I think. Since it's the year of one of the last journal entries where the brothers were "at the final stage of finding the elixir"

James was reading that when he was looking for the lab

so I proceed

James found the lab and was able to recreate William's elixir

He tested it on his dog and made a mistake of thinking it's safe after the dog was ok

he accidentally sacrificed himself so the dog would get a prolonged life

because that's how elixir works

then Roots go on, Albert drops Frank down the well in 1891 and only in 1893 the guests arrive to the hotel and meet their demise

The Cave takes place much later, in winter 1972

The date is there in the beginning

part of the intro

Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl are now weak. Since Caroline and William both died, they don't have the elixir formula and can't easily make a new batch of elixir to sustain themselves

so they have to extract the elixir created by James from his dog

simply because the dog drank the elixir once and it didn't wear off yet

@latent vortex I hope it's more clear to you now

If you have questions, I'll gladly answer them

[latent vortex]

Yep thx

[latent vortex]

Thank you for explaining to me

[azure bay]

np

[dry sparrow]

Do the age of the Hotel guests correspond to the Eilanders though?

[azure bay]

not really

either retcon or we don't know what these ages mean

[west basin]

Thank you for the entire Lore nowhere. my ADHD also kicked in.

[west basin]

What is her first name?

[azure bay]

Mary

[west basin]

Wow....

I typed in Samantha.

[dry sparrow]

Perhaps the question is, who is Samantha?

[west basin]

A friend of mine, also one of the charaters of my story's first name.

How long has Laura begin to draw though?

[carmine field]

Dr. Clark, who treats Laura, specializes in art therapy

So Laura has probably been drawing since she started therapy

[sour brook]

Heya! I have a question regarding Harvey.

Was Harvey involved with the Vanderboom brothers' experiments in the past?? As in, they were running the experiment together with them or maybe forced to be a test subject.

Throughout the series, we see them as a guardian or family friend of Vanderboom family. They're clearly not just Laura's pet parrot despite the form. They're able to perform complex tasks (as playable character in multiple games) and the Vanderboom family also relies on them in several occasions. Emma asks them to find frank and deliver the letter to him (def not something a parrot can do), and rose requests to watch over Laura.

Harvey has also been around for several generations (i don't remember the years) which is odd for a mere parrot. However, even if they consumed the elixir, I don't think it was perfected yet as we see them die in seasons.

On another note, Mr. Owl was colleague and/or business partner of Mr. Crow (dunno about William) as seen in rusty lake hotel, and Harvey was working there as a butler in humanoid form (as everyone else) before fully becoming a bird. We also know that the elixir was originally made by Mr. Owl's mother (i mean she tried). So it's possible that the Vanderbooms got the idea of elixir from him. And Harvey got dragged into that mess.

[Also, Harvey doesn't seem like someone who'd be interested in extending own life for the price of other's. ]

Ps. I'm not on social media so I don't know about a lot of canonical stuff. Please don't get mad if I'm asking something obvious and established.

[floral mauve]

so Harvey has been there since the beginning, which is Paradise, thats technically when we saw him for the first time in terms of the timeline, I would say that he does involve in the experiment of elixir in a way (Alchemy level doesnt count), the meaning of Harvey's egg is still uncertain, but its not good I think

[vivid bridge]

I like the idea that Harvey is an enlightened animal, not a person

which is why he's a parrot in Paradise

and then post-hotel he's an animal again cause he died

until UB made him an asura again for no reason (god I hate that game sometimes)

[vivid mountain]

I don’t think anything in the Rusty lake Series is random. One theory(saw on yt) is was that he would be able to switch his form from animal to human. In hotel we see him in a human form

(Human meaning a body such as mr.crow or mr. Owl)

[floral mauve]

thats asura then

[vivid bridge]

yeah but the whole thing with Harvey is that after Hotel, he's fully a parrot, because he presumably died after Hotel

The game right before UB has Harvey as a normal parrot (The Mill)

[west basin]

I wonder though, who did morphed into all the animals of the hotel from Paradise?

[carmine field]

our only clue is the end of Paradise, where supposedly they were enlightened by the Lake after sacrificing their firstborn son

but we have so many doubts about the gap between Paradise and Hotel that we cannot put the hammer down

(most of these questions wouldn't exist if Rusty Lake hadn't said the ages of the guests during the release of Rusty Lake Hotel)

[sour brook]

Like the doggo??

[sour brook]

How is that asura??

[autumn thorn]

Hi

[carmine field]

Cube Escape: Theatre

With each play, a different Sanskrit word appears over the pictures/paintings

The six words correspond to the realms of Samsara, from Indian mythology: Deva, Manusya, Asura, Tiryagioni, Naraka and Preta

You can interpret this as 6 types of beings that exist in the world of Rusty Lake

Manusya are the humans

Tiryagioni are animals

Preta are corrupted souls

[sour brook]

I mean asura is basically a demon

[carmine field]

Asura are anthropomorphic animals

[sour brook]

With evil intent

[carmine field]

Yep

I know

[sour brook]

How is Harvey evil??

[carmine field]

In the world of Rusty Lake, the Asura are anthropomorphic animals, since the word that appears in Mr. Crow's image is Asura

[carmine field]

Harvey killed the guests lol

He helped with Mr. Owl's plans

[sour brook]

Okay. I always thought that's because he sacrificed others

[sour brook]

I forgot XD

[carmine field]

Even so, we are not sure if the Asura of Rusty Lake must have evil intentions

Several things seem different from the original mythology

Like the idea of enlightenment

[sour brook]

That's true

Man the only time my third language (that i wanted to get done with as soon as possible) payed off was when these words appeared in rusty lake

[carmine field]

lol

Samsara is quite important in Rusty Lake

As I said, it is a canonical way for us to classify types of beings

[sour brook]

May these poor souls reach Nirvana

[carmine field]

some associate Nirvana with "blossom" as in UB

[sour brook]

Aren't blossoms a part of the circle of life??

[carmine field]

Apparently not from the lake

idk

[errant estuary]

rose when she has achieved nirvana or smthn

[azure bay]

RL is weird in this sense. For a long time they called enlightenment anything but nirvana. It's not even certain if nirvana is really a thing in RL. The closest thing seems to be Rose's blossom (which is called enlightenment too) but at the same time the forest is considered naraka and the devs confirmed that it's the lowest realm in the hierarchy of samsara

[carmine field]

Yeah, there's this Naraka x Nirvana subject

I'm pretty sure there's an answer to this since the red forest also appeared in UB, we just don't know yet

[vivid bridge]

Idk if the red forest actually means anything

might just be a semi-prophetic nightmare that laura has

[carmine field]

who knows

[west basin]

Yeah red forest only appears, what once or twice?

I still think it links with metamorphsis with the moths, I remember having this conversation in one of my theories maintaining only with Laura and the cubes several months ago on here.

[azure bay]

they said that the forest under the lake is naraka

[azure bay]

in 3 different games

and several times without being red

[vivid bridge]

yeah but that's not the red forest

[west basin]

Yeah but not the red forest.

We only see a blip of it in seasons after mixing in the mushroom, I think the massive one is of course Paradise.

[azure bay]

the red forest in Theatre is naraka

both forests are naraka

probably both forests are the same

they are in my book until further notice

[vivid bridge]

I hate it when you're right

though it could still be metaphorical

[azure bay]

what exactly?

[vivid bridge]

Like the red forest could still be Laura's nightmare about naraka. The picture in theatre could just depict that

[azure bay]

on the other hand, theatre was a lesson for Dale

[vivid bridge]

Would be cool if Dale had the same nightmares

[azure bay]

I bet. However in that case that was rather an illusion (?)

[vivid bridge]

In what case?

[azure bay]

theatre

it's Owl's creation

[vivid bridge]

Yeah, maybe the red forest is just a symbol for the less positive side of naraka

I always called the red forest the Infernal Forest, after the Infernal Basement in Submachine

[azure bay]

yeah and maybe there's a way to get there?

[vivid bridge]

I don't know if its an actual place

It might just be a vision/nightmare people have about it

I always liked the idea of a game where we see what happens when the lake doesn't get fed and that's when the red forest would appear

but that's just fanfiction at that point

[azure bay]

a silly little thought. The forest is red when the 1st plague takes place

[vivid bridge]

is it red? I think the blood is only on the surface of the lake

[azure bay]

no idea actually

[vivid bridge]

I wish we could explore the lake as an entity more

last time was, what, Paradise?

[carmine field]

Indeed, the only clue we have for Naraka are Laura's nightmares/visions of the red forest in both Seasons and UB

But in both situations, Laura was either human or a corrupted soul

The red forest in these cases must have been just a metaphor for the turmoil in her head

Just as corrupted souls are metaphors for the dark side of people and are not necessarily real

[carmine field]

If Theatre isn't enough, the image of the wheel in The Cave shows Naraka as the red forest, reinforcing the message

[carmine field]

I reflected a little on Naraka's play in Theatre. Maybe it's bullshit, but I thought it was interesting to share anyway...

The only thing we discover from "The Signs" is a recipe for Harvey Wallbanger, a drink we serve to Bob.

As soon as Bob drinks, he bangs his forehead on the counter repeatedly, as if taking out the frustrations accumulated in his head. This ties with this idea that the red forest is a metaphor for mental turbulence.

[errant estuary]

i mean, it seems overstimulating

[carmine field]

As if I didn't know

[dry sparrow]

Btw, the bird trio has been on my mind. The birds themselves are considered intelligent, perhaps that is why they are used for important characters instead of like a small dove or penguin

Not that I am implying the other birds as not smart, just saying

[vivid bridge]

I don't know if its intelligence specifically. I presume Harvey is a parrot because the devs liked the idea of a parrot mimicking Laura's death scream (which tbh doesn't make much sense if its suicide). Crows are a bad omen while owls are considered wise (plus the twin peaks reference)

[dry sparrow]

Yeah, although I forgot about the screams. These birds can uphold the mysterious aura of the lake

[west basin]

Crows are intelligent.

Parrots well they can also mimic short phrases as humans can, also lead into a path of where, we conversationlist forget what we said perviously.

LOL (Welcome to the frozen pound, the penguin will be your guide....)

[dry sparrow]

Cues the seagull’s horrifying laugh

Side tracking again, I was watching a gameplay of Seasons and noticed a small feature on Harvey’s cage: something that resembles the letter N seen in Roots. Is that a proper thing or just a once-off?

[west basin]

N....

[errant estuary]

african grey: the most intelligent bird we know, capable of combining words for things they dont understand
crows: capable of holding long generational grudges
owls: good at what they do (killing without a sound), but too overspecialised to do anything more than that and keep their babies alive

[west basin]

Why would they start it off with techincally children playing though, if you want to dive into rusty lake roots?

[dry sparrow]

Are you talking about the triplets? Perhaps to show the origin of the grudges and motive Albert has

Different topic: who would put the needle in the cake for Dale? Regardless of what takes place afterwards, this is eerie on its own already

[errant estuary]

im assuming pure incomptetence

[dry sparrow]

By who 😭

[errant estuary]

probably the parents, because it seems home baked

[grizzled bluff]

A parent might have been mending something and lost track of the needle. Dangerous business, but could be an accident

[dry sparrow]

Fair enough, for that time period buying it from the bakery seems less likely

[grizzled bluff]

Right, and home mending would have been even more likely than it is in current times

Put the needle down on the counter, grab the batter, don't notice the needle being swept in my your sleeve

[dry sparrow]

Yeah

Also, I wonder if the previous cases Dale handled are related to the lake

‘Case 23’ so 22 before ?

[grizzled bluff]

Hard to say. Could be 22 Lake cases, or just 22 cases in his career

How deep of a hole was he digging before it all started falling down?

[dry sparrow]

Maybe a bit of both, but perhaps he was scratching the surface before diving deep in the 23rd

Nonetheless his mind is not really safe from weird things, being a homicide detective

[west basin]

Yeah buying from the bakery is like these days... Clicking on Uber Eats.

[azure bay]

Don't underestimate a good local bakely

[errant estuary]

literally

local bakeries are worth spending on to support them

[barren cove]

Can't wait for the exciting prequel "case 123" where you just solve a completely normal case

[dry sparrow]

the plot twist is us players expecting something bizarre lol

[west basin]

Yeah local bakeries are the best though, only a few of them I know off my hand is close by here.

Ontopic.

So the business men in the UB....

What is your theory is on them?

[azure bay]

like what?

[west basin]

I think my personal theory of them is they did work in the Johanson birdseed company.

[azure bay]

I'd rather say it's a fact. They arrived by a designated train

[west basin]

Infact.

[carmine field]

It's better to theorize about what their language is

[azure bay]

I coincidentally spoke to Bob Rafferty about that yesterday and I have bad news for you...
|| ||

[errant estuary]

mr blobby-speak

[west basin]

So...What is the main timeline of Rusty Lake, I know there is no settings for either The Lake or Samsara room.

[azure bay]

What timelines do you know?

[west basin]

Currently, just Samsara room, and Cube escape collection though.

[vivid mountain]

Vanderboom family had a lactose intolerance

[vivid bridge]

explain yourself

[vivid mountain]

Idk I just think they had a lactose intolerance

[vivid bridge]

There's no proof that they aren't lactose intolerant so yeah sure maybe

[vivid mountain]

YEAH

[vivid bridge]

I wonder if there is a reason why the forest around the white cube house is dead in The Cave but not dead in Underground Blossom, despite both taking place at the same time

I mean, there are a few dead trees

truly, the pinnacle of art evolution

I guess nvm

[west basin]

Well I think its in the same cube, we only see two large sides of itself.

Most games we only get to handle a few of tiny ones.

[vivid bridge]

I know its the same cube, i'm just pointing out the difference in presentation. The dead trees in UB are so lazily put in there, I had forgotten they were there in the first place

I wonder why Dave has a different device

[west basin]

Yeah the trees in UB are just so lazy put inside there though, Maybe because timem made them that way though.

Some of the time you can see why other trees are around the planet.

[west basin]

Mostly wine drinkers!!!

[carmine field]

Maybe because of Paradox?

Considering we don't know if Laura participated in anything

[azure bay]

But what about the burden of proof?

[vivid bridge]

[covert wyvern]

No.

[vivid bridge]

Okay

[azure bay]

My theory is, because he's the lead in Paradox

[vivid bridge]

I mean, yeah, that's the obvious answer. I'm just surprised that the devs would think that far ahead

[azure bay]

It's not that far, as I think about it

only Paradise apart

[vivid bridge]

yeah but still

It's especially weird cause the whole point of this scene is that Dale and Laura get connected to create the golden cube but Laura isn't actually connected since her head thing doesn't have a cable

[azure bay]

Her chair technically does have a cable. It's just that Dale has 2

[vivid bridge]

I guess so

this technology makes no sense

tsk tsk tsk

[azure bay]

maybe this cable thing isn't about Paradox

It could be about Hotel 2

[vivid bridge]

the idea that Paradox isn't necessary to make the golden cube and is just something they did to fuck with Dale is funny

[azure bay]

I reckon it could be neither

depending on your definition of fucking with Dale

[vivid bridge]

I know Paradox has a point

[west basin]

What if Laura did somehow... Turn herself into an animal?

[azure bay]

and what if Laura somehow turned herself into an animal?

[vivid bridge]

Laura's animal form would be

idk

a flamingo

[west basin]

Was thinking of a peacock with her colors of the dresses she worn.

[vivid bridge]

that'd work too

[azure bay]

ah you mean a hybrid?

a furry

[west basin]

Nah..

nah.

Was thinking of a peacock because of the feathers have blue and green color combination with a tint of yellow.

Their neck is a solid blue.

[azure bay]

then I'm confused

[west basin]

I was not thinking of Laura as a hybrid though...

I was only thinking what if she is a peacock walking around the gloom atmosphere of the series.

[vivid bridge]

Laura's asura form is the mammoth

[azure bay]

Anyways, I don't think we're in the position of speculating about this. Considering that Owl will become a fish and we have no other reference, I don't see a system that would help predict such thing for Laura

it doesn't seem to be a visual thing

[west basin]

Yeah..

I must of drempt of it somehow yesterday.

[vivid bridge]

At least Dale has been associated with deer before

but with Laura, yeah, there's really nothing

[west basin]

Yeah Dale has been really associated with the deer before.

Maybe tiny like the pigedon we see in Harvey's box though.

[vivid bridge]

Ms. Shrimp

[west basin]

I was also probably rethinking of each shrimp was like a past memory of her.

[azure bay]

Funny enough, Harvey is color coded like Laura

I really doubt Laura would become Harvey or vise versa

would be crazy though

also there's a theory that Harvey represented Laura in Seasons

thus he never died for real

[dry sparrow]

Is it really though

[azure bay]

what is?

[dry sparrow]

The colour code

[azure bay]

more or less

[errant estuary]

laura caracal

she screams like an electric toothbrush

it messes people up

[dry sparrow]

It might be hard to tell for me, but the color schemes are similar but not enough to associate

[azure bay]

I tend to agree, the theory isn't mine

[dry sparrow]

Fair

[west basin]

In paradise, the first stage.

Do we really see a different line of where Jackob becomes..

A much different but stranger towards someone, who spend less time with him?

[floral mauve]

wha

[frosty wolf]

In the first plague of Paradise do we really see a different timeline where Jakob becomes a very different stranger towards someone who spends less time with him?

my grammatical corrections lol

[azure bay]

Paradise is Paradise, there's no point where timeline could branch

[dry sparrow]

Btw have we figured out where UB and WTD take place? I assume we are on some sort of mainland / urban regions, but where?

[floral mauve]

New york

UB isnt a fixed region

[sweet tulip]

well the UB stations are very reminiscent of the NYC metro
but the actual events they represent aren't limited to NYC

[stiff ledge]

Do you think there could be a game for the bridge? Or at least an important role in a future game?

[floral mauve]

well it seems like they gave up that location. it couldnt form a game by itself and it cant be fitting into a part of a chapter of other games so I guess not

[stiff ledge]

damn, that's sad

[floral mauve]

the only bridge I remember was in roots

but thats just some goofy tiny cutscene one

[vivid bridge]

The bridge always intruiged me

Like the cave and the mill, it was one of the marked places in Case 23

its the only marked place to not be featured in any game really