🤔｜theories

[vivid bridge]

I mean its fine

[azure bay]

I think she's better off as a Vanderboom than some random girl they babysit so much for no reason.

But I hate the idea of Dale not being the chosen one by fate but because his grandpa is Crow out of nowhere

[vivid bridge]

oh yeah no

I think grandpa is just aldous inserting himself into the memory

If Dale is related to anyone from the series then i'm gonna be mad

[azure bay]

and yet grandpa being Crow would explain the hotel pistol Mr. Rabbit came for

[vivid bridge]

i'm still not sure if its the same gun. It's Rabbit's substance, not Pheasants

and the reason why that specific gun is in Dale's house is just because of fate

[azure bay]

I hope so

[vivid bridge]

the thing i'm wondering about

are there naturally born asuras

[azure bay]

maybe not born but there have to be many more of them. Many more than there are elixirs

[vivid bridge]

Like maybe thats the thing with the eilanders. The guests are the eilanders but not because of the elixir. They just died and reincarnated as animal people with no memories

[azure bay]

we need other lakes then

[vivid bridge]

canon

[dark elk]

Haha, that's funny

[vivid bridge]

the context is that in UB, the mountains at the lake are mirrored from how they usually look. So my (joke) theory is that there's a second lake at the other side of the mountain range

[dark elk]

Ok, thank you

Yeah

[vivid bridge]

why do they share a name

[vivid bridge]

I'm wondering if the new game they're teasing will be the Dale Laura finale or if its the mammoth game or something else entirely

[honest brook]

The White Door takes place in real life right?

[azure bay]

mostly reliable

mostly

it was made for the 1st ARG

you have to solve it to get the codes for the basement ending

[grizzled elbow]

Is that part where Mr.Owl wears Dale mask in CE Theater a foreshadowing for Paradox?

[carmine field]

Actually it's because the last play represents Dale's future

Not only was this the time for him to test his knowledge of the wheel, but it also foreshadowed his glorious future

[honest brook]

In UB, is the ticket woman in Crib Station meant to be Mr Crow’s wife from the Mill?

[carmine field]

They are very different tbh

[honest brook]

I guess

[sweet tulip]

ah yes
Silent Lake

[sweet tulip]

I mean... the mountains have always been continued with a miror version of themselves, no ?
like the mountain range has a texture, and then it gets extrapolated as just a reflection when they need more space

[vivid bridge]

yeah technically they do but in this case, it only gets mirrored at the far right

the background being a mirrored version of the Roots painting

[sweet tulip]

not just the far right

you can also see it on the left

considering the POV (most likely somewhere around the Cabin), the far right section would correspond with the view from the House
so it all checks out

[sweet tulip]

there's some weird compression in the image that I really don't like
but I guess they just thought the original scale was too high, but reducing it equally would mean way too much mirroring, so they squished it a bit

not a fan, but it makes sense

[vivid bridge]

I get that

[carmine field]

wait thats my screenshot

[carmine field]

I love that

[sweet tulip]

did someone ping me ?

[subtle stag]

Is there somewhere a HD version of this

I zoom and its full on blur

[azure bay]

you usually need to open it in browser

also I've posted a newer version on Wiki

[subtle stag]

?

Could you link it to me

I am on wiki rn

Timeline section

[azure bay]

I see it right next to this one

[subtle stag]

Its still very blurry

[azure bay]

see full size

top left corner

[subtle stag]

Oooh okay then dumb me, thanks man

[azure bay]

u r welcome

[azure bay]

the short answer: we can't know for sure

[carmine field]

It could be because of her possible narcissistic personality but there's no way of knowing

[azure bay]

and that's one of the longer answers 👆

[vivid bridge]

I think the flash made her twitch her finger

so she accidentally pulled the trigger

[azure bay]

a prop wouldn't be charged

[vivid bridge]

yeah usually

but if you're trying to murder someone

[azure bay]

Harvey didn't rig it

he just opened the chest

and gave the pistol

also she was totally expecting a flash

[subtle stag]

So I just replayed the whole game beside white door, and here few things so we got into cave and see dale and Laura, in some machinery we know dale is in some paradox type of thoughts until the end chapter 2 where you go back through the elevator. Past within is where Rose became one with her past and future self. What does the tree symbolize?
How come Harvey is so connected with the black egg and in general in the game through many eras. The eilender are reincarnated as animals and mr owl ascended. Dale and David conflict thing.
So UB plays right after cave is finished right they put dale into elevator to proceed with whatever the goal is and Laura motive would be resurrecting her and become a free soul wandering peacefully in the lake? I might have it so mismatched.

[azure bay]

The tree and the blossom seem to be some form of enlightenment

I'd say it's the closest one to the source material

why is UB right after The Cave though?

@subtle stag

[subtle stag]

It’s the secret ending with the white cube where crow sends Laura away through some elevator, or did I mistaken it?

[azure bay]

no that's it but do you mean UB as a whole?

[subtle stag]

No I mean only that part as a to be continued

Other than that idk what was the other thing about Laura recap maybe thats also the simulation within the machine

[azure bay]

I don't think so

[subtle stag]

We haven’t gotten much about the future, so I wonder where this cycle gonna go

Beside rose and old Laura?? Fish owl?

[azure bay]

Harvey seems helping out Rose rather than Owl and Rose seems to be out Owl's scope

well

[azure bay]

we know what's to come for Dale

[floral mauve]

but UB Hotel ending suggests otherwise

like Owl knows everything

include blossom part

[subtle stag]

You mean ruler of the lake?

I also wonder what the police hanging man mean in case 23

[azure bay]

nah, he knew about Laura's journey and Harvey helping her out but the whole blossom part seems beyond him. If he knew better he'd prevent Rose from infiltrating his businesses under fake name, prevent Albert from returning and Rose wouldn't blossom in the 1st place

[floral mauve]

he is legit at the bench goofying around

[azure bay]

Owl's successor, the ruler of the lake, the 1st god we see onscreen, probably a new Mr. Deer

[subtle stag]

From rusty lake roots it hints that Harvey was attacked by the corrupted soul and some light of beam happened which then turned him to normal parrot and that’s where Harvey meets uuuh I forgot the name the flower pregnant woman

[subtle stag]

Who is the 1st god idk that detail

[azure bay]

Dale

[floral mauve]

he might intentionally leave Rose do whatever she feels like cuz why not, its a breakthrough

[subtle stag]

Also there plenty like arg right hidden website things are there any interesting secret in those?

[azure bay]

it isn't worth Albert's return

an unreasonable risk

[floral mauve]

I think he already got plenty of risks around and blossom part is indeed something

[azure bay]

If you've seen the secret level it leads to, not much

[azure bay]

like what?

[subtle stag]

Secret level in where paradox?

[azure bay]

UB

[subtle stag]

Ye there were plenty of theories how Harvey can’t turn human like anymore seems that ain’t the case

[azure bay]

that would be just stupid

[floral mauve]

CS under the lake, rabbit, maybe Sarah if she decided to go deeper

[subtle stag]

Harvey is the only one who turns to parrot for some reason and his black egg is connected to black cube

[azure bay]

I wouldn't take that part literally

[subtle stag]

Well it always start with the black egg

[azure bay]

Laura meant only Seasons

[subtle stag]

Harvey was as well in paradise but idk if that’s just Easter egg

The most confusing one would be Harvey box and the Lake understandable since those were older games with maybe not as much built lore

[azure bay]

the devs said they had their story build pretty early on

The Lake + HB mean Laura went to the lake

still wonder why Owl got her there

but otherwise this past of the story isn't that impacting

[azure bay]

CS are just there, Rabbit's goals are simple and Sarah personally won't fool him again. Albert however is a real threat

[subtle stag]

White door is the only I haven’t finished heh

Ye Albert was always sketchy kinda interesting how he found the way to connect from past to future

[floral mauve]

idk, Owl maybe wont see him as one cuz he and rabbit are similar in a way

[subtle stag]

Rose is a pawn of sort well most pieces are

[floral mauve]

and he is useful

[subtle stag]

What is rabbit goal again to escape the corrupted soul?

[azure bay]

Albert knows much more and he's a psychopath. His mere existence is an immediate chaotic reality bending threat

[floral mauve]

like why cant he be another target that he can work with, he likes smart ppl, doctors in twd and researchers in bkm alchem brothers

[floral mauve]

well you never know

you are interpreting, I got more examples and evidence

[azure bay]

Albert is not to be trusted. Period

he did too much shit

he knows too much

[floral mauve]

you seem too emotional and stubborn in this topic and I suggest you to rethink before aruging

[subtle stag]

Albert only cares for her daughter beside that he might as well eradicate mr crow

But he sound calm with rose, rn who knows what’s his reason of resurrection

Maybe he as well cares for Laura

[azure bay]

I'm calm. Albert has so many red flags he can start a Rusty Lake Communist Party

[subtle stag]

If not he wouldn’t do all this to connect to past and future

[floral mauve]

bro walking on thin ice

[floral mauve]

that is arguable, like I fr dont understand whats his next goal after he got revived, and it seems like his daughter blossom and he got left behind in a way

[subtle stag]

On wiki it states they just wanted a Dark character and that’s albert and that he will comeback, they have it all planned out damn

Too many puzzle pieces especially Albert and how he found a way to future and past, some kind of paradox again

Man wish there were more YouTube videos explaining cube escape

[floral mauve]

there are some

[subtle stag]

Not many, also so does paradox hint maybe that Laura will become old in future since in season she escaped the corrupted state, and fish. Fish. Fish

[floral mauve]

but I think you got most of it, videos are just repetitive narrations in many cases

[azure bay]

Harvey's return to asura form makes no sense logically, story-wise and lore-wise. After the break-out he was resurrected by Owl. And Owl struggles to sustain even his own demigod form, let alone grant it to somebody else. Since then we see Harvey exclusively as a parrot doing more or less parrot things, even a simple cardboard box is a real problem for him. And, again, he represents the animal realm on multiple samsara wheels. It's like the devs are saying "here, that's an animal"

With all that said, I hope UB is simply a big metaphorical mess cause otherwise the devs are very close to failing their own lore. They need to either drop it or explain it. And it's better to be good.

[carmine field]

All I want is for the references thrown into UB to be explained soon

This game has a cool idea, but it only answers one question while creating thousands of others

[azure bay]

like what?

[subtle stag]

Beside harvey being all over the place, its nice where the story is going

[subtle stag]

Soo you want to write things up or you gave up?

[frosty wolf]

(this isnt an arguing channel bruh 😭 no one's giving up-

[covert wyvern]

This is true^ please remain respectful and civil, this isn't a trial, there is no game being played, there are no stakes. No one is required to provide an answer, pushing them consistently will be met with a mute.

[floral mauve]

I see no trial here maybe misunderstanding

[covert wyvern]

Your input isn't required here

But perhaps my wording is off, I believe my point is clear though.

[floral mauve]

agree

[covert wyvern]

Now try not to burn the channel down while I go for my mandatory 8 hours of nightnight

[floral mauve]

nightnight

working overtime

[carmine field]

A list of questions that cause a bit of confusion:

• Reubtmoce - "Cube metro" as UB teaser (no cubes are seen except for those with symbols)
• Laura remembering the tree and the insect (I imagine it will be brought up soon)
• Harvey as an anthropomorphic animal (would that be literal or not?)
• Mr. Crow on the train (did he help Harvey on Laura's journey or not?)
• The green suitcase (clearly a reference to The Lake)
• The locker key (seemed to be important in the UB teasers and resembles the Hotel keys)
• Albert's schemes (We know he's up to something but his goals are still quite nebulous)
• The entire sequence at the end with Laura's blossoming
• Laura's ascension (Dale is the one destined to rule the Lake, so what does that mean?)

But the bigger question is how this all fits together with Seasons and The Lake

Some have their own theories about all this but we need confirmation or more evidence

[azure bay]

I can answer the last question with certainty

Dale and Laura are having the elixir

[carmine field]

yes, but it gives the impression that Laura could replace Dale

Which is quite strange considering only Dale went through the journey

[untold stump]

Owl wants Dale to rule the Lake, I kinda see Paradox as his way to train Dale to win over Laura to become ruler on the day of the Lake

[azure bay]

would it be cool to get games about Laura's elevator journey?

[subtle stag]

I didnt mean it in any negative way I was just wondering since I was intrigued about it

Maybe gave up was a bad wording but ye

[frosty wolf]

yea i understand its just the way you worded it

[untold stump]

I mean could Lake be one of those ? Because UB already covers a lot of her life and her trip to the lake is one of the only thing we know happened but wasn't in the game

[subtle stag]

I would assume mr crow would at least look for laura since its his brother, in sort way. But apparently theres hint for the next game to be about the 2 brothers

[azure bay]

we don't know much yet. Even the devs may only be setting the outline rn

[subtle stag]

Ye it feels like a metaphor but in a way a hint of how the story progressed in a weird way

3 years until we get into the future

[azure bay]

the only new picture we've seen well on the table implies the Roots to have already happened by that game

[subtle stag]

Could be once more a reference to it lmao, but with some of new hint like the previous times

[azure bay]

the roots have clearly overwhelmed the lab. And I see no purpose in showing a different alchemist-themed dungeon with roots

[subtle stag]

Btw how old was laura when she died

[azure bay]

around 35 if I recall correctly

36 actually

[subtle stag]

If her death didnt stop her age, then paradox of hint of old laura would make sense then, neat

[azure bay]

not really

[subtle stag]

Only harvey is a thorn in the eye

[azure bay]

Paradox takes place only a year after she died and the future mind seems to refer to the day of the lake which I expect to take place that year as well

her graying would probably make sense in 1981

but we still saw her blond in Seasons ending

[subtle stag]

I mean the past mind of dale was like when he was what 7?

[azure bay]

9

[subtle stag]

I mean laura did get ported back in time maybe solve her issue with her corrupted self

[carmine field]

I forgot about the pickpocket arc and the fact that the devs called UB "one of the timelines"

[subtle stag]

The blue cube

Unless that was within the machine

[azure bay]

for now I see Seasons exclusively as a different adventure

there is difference between entering your body of a different age inside a "memory" cube

and manipulating time with a blue one

at least it seems so

[azure bay]

As I think about it, no. She would be 46. I'd expect her graying in her 50s

In Paradox it could be her alternative version that lives

or a reference to Twin Peaks when Dale Cooper sees older Laura Palmer and himself in his dream

I'm also confused to see a completely different elder Laura in UB

[carmine field]

this old Laura may return in the future perhaps

It's strange that they made an entirely new design for her

[azure bay]

The sequence of Laura's ages flying in blossom reminds me of the synopsis

"find the correct metro to board and uncover one of Laura’s timelines, while simultaneously helping her make sense of her life and escape the corruption of her mind!"

"Travel to 7 unique metro stations, each station a representation of Laura Vanderboom’s life, memories and potential future."

hmm

ok, I seem to have misremembered these 2 parts being separate

I remembered "making sense of her...", "life, memories and potential future" and "escape the corruption of her mind"

and my brain mashed them together

[carmine field]

hmmmm

[untold stump]

Possibly frightened to death, possibly Albert killed her

[thorny wedge]

my assumption was heart attack, shock too strong for her aging heart, albert could've 100% also caused it directly though

[untold stump]

We don't know

[honest brook]

I think they just got consumed by the tree, Rose avoided it with the clock

[azure bay]

I'm almost sure Albert didn't kill her personally. I'd expect another voodoo doll otherwise.

[subtle stag]

Theres a third sibling of the alchemist what

[floral mauve]

SInce William is Jame's uncle

either there is a sibling or aldous is the dad of James

[keen valve]

I wonder who the mother is

[austere spoke]

we're 2

I tend to think that it MIGHT-pay attention, MIGHT- be this lady if aldous is, indeed james' father

[austere spoke]

.

but she might not be, actually she probably isn't

[floral mauve]

She wasn’t immortal or enlightened

Age doesn’t add up

[austere spoke]

yeah

haven't thought of that

[austere spoke]

we can't really tell if she was or wasn't, no?

I mean, we don't know what happens to her

[austere spoke]

she would be at least 131

[floral mauve]

I doubt they would provide elixir to her and she got killed by CS instantly so it could be deducted that she is most likely a regular person

Maybe a villager

[austere spoke]

yeah you're right

maybe there's no mother at all, lol

i wouldn't be surprised about it tho

[carmine field]

maybe james is adopted

[hardy urchin]

Hi, someone have a link toward a site or something about all the rusty lake lore and theories please ? I have troubles linking all the games, family tree etc together by myself 😅

[azure bay]

the best bet would be the wiki but it's not at all an objective source and may contain errors

[hardy urchin]

Ok i will check, maybe i will search on Reddit too, it might be interesting

Thank you !

[azure bay]

you can also ask specific questions here

[lost thorn]

I have already finished the very new puzzle Second Maze had dropped!

[covert wyvern]

That's really great but this server is unfortunately not the place to theorise about it

That's what the second maze server is for

[lost thorn]

||I understand but there is a link in that new puzzle that leads you to rusty lake||

specifically the white door

[covert wyvern]

Haha I suppose you've got a point there

[lost thorn]

may I bring that up here at least?

[covert wyvern]

Yeah sure

[lost thorn]

great thanks!

in the newest arg when I successfully logged into Paul Trilby's computer I saw many emails and one of them was from mental health and fishing

it linked to the white door's website

if MH&F is a sister location for the facility from the white door then that means that the manager Mr. O (Mr. Owl) has an interest in Paul

what do you think?

could Mr. Owl be the one responsible or at least helping in some shape or form the hospital and the doctors of the town Paul is from?

[azure bay]

Oh gosh... It has an ARG

[carmine field]

Where can I find it?

oh nvm

[dire cobalt]

after replaying and finishing all the games once again

first of all

I FEEL SO BAD FOR DALE.

bro is just a silly little guy. he did NOT need to go thru all that

ok second

i was interested in theories on why all this happened to dale

what do you guys think? its kind of a hard find on the google so i thought i'd ask here

things like ||dale's whole family getting fucking massacred by a bitch ass rabbit, him being assigned to LARA VANDERBOOM'S case and then having mr owl perform some weird crucification on him, then the whole two chapter paradox thing where the poor guy had to TAKE HIS OWN BRAINS OUT AND REPLACE IT.||

why does this happen to him out of all people !!!!!!

[errant estuary]

as far as we know, mr owl is preparing him to become his successor so mr owl can begin his slutty fish man era

[dire cobalt]

OH MY GOD

[errant estuary]

but yeah, poor dale

[dire cobalt]

Mr owl is about to serve huh

I mean. From my understanding

mr crow and mr owl are.. good people actually??

but the whole thing happening to dale confused me

||bc they did pretty cruel things to him||

[untold stump]

I dont think anyone's "good" in RL

[dire cobalt]

okay fair

I just meant like, compared to others (like the deer rabbit etc)

And also there's also the whole mr owl trauma thing

||mr owl is jakob right? well his whole family sacrificed him so i cant blame the guy too much||

[untold stump]

We dont rlly know why they need a ruler of the Lake and what might happen if there isnt one so could be a good reason or maybe not

[dire cobalt]

||or like i read it he was reincarnated as an owl?||

[untold stump]

Yaya Owl is Jakob

[dire cobalt]

man. maybe its just what happy said. he just wants to be a slutty fish man blorbing around in the lake.

glug glug

[dire cobalt]

YEEEEAAAAAAA

man who knew mr owl made an appearance in harvey's box huh

[errant estuary]

i dont think that mr owl and mr crow are super great people

[dire cobalt]

for some reason, i remember the first time i played the games, they felt like really good people to me?

but yeah now that i replayed them all, i realized all the fucked up things they did

[errant estuary]

they take advantage of vulnerable people, and even if it is for the lake, i just see it as predatory

[dire cobalt]

i mean using dale's trauma against him

sorry crow but ur an awful therapist

[errant estuary]

taking advantage of mr boar’s opium addiction

[dire cobalt]

i mean yeah we dont even know what the lake is for

[dire cobalt]

DUDE COME ON THEY JUST KILL EVERYONE IN THAT GAME BSJBDKABDOABDOABDKS

[errant estuary]

leaving miss pheasant with a literal gun

[dire cobalt]

oh wait. the player in hotel is harvey right?

so basically harvey is also a bad person LOL

[errant estuary]

this is a bad mental health establishment

[dire cobalt]

what a twist

the feathered friend is not so friendly anymore

[errant estuary]

feathered friend’s a monster to everyone but laura or something

[untold stump]

Counterpoint : can this face be one of a bad person :

[dire cobalt]

it's pretty interesting how much of a role harvey actually plays in the rusty lake universe.. i didnt notice it the first time around

[dire cobalt]

Awe :(( feed baby some bird seed that we got from watering a weird flower thru a funnel on a theater scene :(((

[errant estuary]

i want to rant about hotel

[dire cobalt]

pls do

altho i gotta sleep now so i (hopefully remember to) read tomorrow

[errant estuary]

night

[dire cobalt]

night!! thank u guys for the theories now things make a little more sense

maybe this way we can learn the lake's secret

[errant estuary]

(this theory is if all the eilanders become the guests) i was considering that maybe the reason why miss pheasant shot herself is because as elizabeth, she just did what she was supposed to

[untold stump]

wdym by what she was supposed to ?

[errant estuary]

average thing she does is she receives an object, and does a task

so the gun is mr owl’s way of rubbing it in that she’s spineless

[untold stump]

But wouldnt the task when receiving a gun would be to shoot other people and not yourself ?

[errant estuary]

no idea

[untold stump]

Its true that Pheasant's death is the strangest one of all the guests

It could be because of her special relation to Jakob or because of the gun since it ends up in the Vandermeer's possession

[errant estuary]

also, i cant believe gerard reincarnated and got a job as an ambassador im so proud of him

[honest brook]

Why does Mr Owl want Dale to be the ruler of the Lake in the first place?

[lost thorn]

It was very easy, even I managed to do it without any help!

[untold stump]

He saw him in a vision in Paradise

[lost thorn]

anyhow what do you guys think of this?

[honest brook]

Oh yeah, forgot about that

[carmine field]

I believe it's just the developers promoting

Milo also had an email

There is a possibility that mentalhealthandfishing.com will have an update but it's not the first time they promote this website even after the ARG

[carmine field]

Mainly in Hotel

That vision in Paradise is meant to be a secret so it's debatable

[carmine field]

I guess it's because the Lake chose Dale smh

[honest brook]

I guess

[carmine field]

Mr. Owl probably discovered Dale in Rusty Lake Hotel epilogue

[untold stump]

With the time travel going on a lot of things could be self-fulfiling

Like for example Im pretty sure the reason Rose ressurected Albert was because in 1926 she needed help from 1985 to get out of her cube so she had to be there or else it would have been a time paradox

[honest brook]

But what about the whole "book a visit to the light house" with the file?

[carmine field]

The file only has wallpapers from the game

Does not appear to be related to Rusty Lake

[dire cobalt]

WAITTT I FORGOT THAT THE GUESTS IN RUSTY LAKE HOTEL ARE THE EILANDER FAMILY???

well, more like reincarnations of them ig??

[honest brook]

No, I think they’re just the same people with different animal heads

[lost thorn]

I understand but the advertising for it also works from an in-universe perspective, which is why I believe it will alwyas be promoted, heck MH&F was established long before the facily both in real life and the order if game releases.

[limpid cedar]

Not a theory but a question, how does enlightenment actually work, what it means to be enlightened and stuff like that because I'm a little confused 😓

[azure bay]

The further it goes, the more we're getting confused.

In the source material it was about escaping the cycle of rebirths and achieving peace in nirvana.

A precursor of RL series Samsara Room (the original 2013 uncanon game) made it the main goal.

At the very beginning of RL, the series seemed to have deviated from this concept. It was about becoming either an asura (demon/demigod) like Mr. Crow or becoming a deva (a god, and Dale is teased to become one).

Then in 2020 we've got a complete remake of Samsara Room that made it canon. It changed characters and the ending. However despite the end goal became a rebirth of a hungry ghost into a human it was still technically called enlightenment on multiple occasions.

The Past Within offered an unexpected return to the origins. Rose reached the lake where time does not exist and became a tree in blossom. That was the closest RL got to the OG enlightenment. But it's still weird because despite Underground Blossom confirmed that as enlightenment, it's seemingly implied that all the other dead trees in the lake are enlightened too despite not being in blossom.

[dire cobalt]

samsara room is older than rusty lake/cube escape games??

[limpid cedar]

Yeah

[azure bay]

the original idea is

[dire cobalt]

woahh i thought it came out a while after

it was a beautiful game

[limpid cedar]

The remake yes

[dire cobalt]

oh ok that makes sense!

right, i shouldve read the message entirely 😭 haha

[errant estuary]

we’re asking why all of the weird dutch people do not know what exactly enlightenment is /j

[azure bay]

It's all the Paradise cult's fault, I'm telling ya /j

[limpid cedar]

It's always them smh/j

[errant estuary]

on a serious-ish note tho i think that the asuras being portrayed as a little hedonistic/ruinous and is general just toxic fits

[azure bay]

I wonder if it will be the case for Dale

[azure bay]

~~case 24🥁 ~~

[errant estuary]

devas are usually completely ignorant of all suffering apparently, while asura never feel satisfied by their status, and want to be devas

[dire cobalt]

LEAVE MY BOY ALONE

[dire cobalt]

these are words i never heard

i really need to get into the games lore LMAO

[azure bay]

it's the original mythology

or rather AN original mythology

there are different schools

[limpid cedar]

Once you cabin, you can't cabout
Ok I'll leave

[errant estuary]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asura_(Buddhism)

[dire cobalt]

woah thank you guys

time for a hyperfixation rabbithole

[errant estuary]

glad to know that

[dire cobalt]

i have harveyed my last box 😔

[azure bay]

(this channel becomes so much cringe. I somehow like it)

[limpid cedar]

(I'm sorry but also you're welcome)

[errant estuary]

is this canon, nowhere?

[dire cobalt]

the lobster man 🦞

[errant estuary]

another highlight of that playthrough is me calling aries shadow satan

[azure bay]

Lobster donkey is

[dire cobalt]

wait omg there WAS a satan but i forgot which one i thought it was

i think taurus or capricorn

or maybe it was aries

[carmine field]

Complementing the end of the text, what TPW did left some things even more confusing.

The red forest that appears in Seasons, confirmed to be the forest at the bottom of the Lake, has been referred to several times as Naraka, the infernal realm and the lowest point of the Samsara wheel.

In the original mythology, Naraka is a place of constant suffering and is where beings with a lot of negative Karma go. Meanwhile, Nirvana/enlightenment is about understanding the nature of the world and breaking free from the Samsara wheel, which is totally different from Naraka.

The forest being Naraka and at the same time Nirvana is contradictory. I imagine the devs have a good answer for this, since both versions of the forest appeared in UB, but the question remains open.

[errant estuary]

“wanna hear a spooky story? ooooooooh, the ghost of a matador~ two people holding hands, scary~ oooooooh, a-“
“lobster man”
“yes, the loooooobster man, ooooooooooh~ look, it’s satan! oooooooooh, the american justice system”

[dire cobalt]

OML??

the two people holding hands is the scariest fr

i mean, before marriage? REALLY??

[errant estuary]

whatre they gonna do next, HUG!?

[vivid bridge]

damn I missed the first discussion in like a month

[remote remnant]

i have a WILD theory

what if the enlightened people

are trees

🤯

[azure bay]

Owl is enlightened and he's not a tree

[remote remnant]

i need time to think

[remote remnant]

what if robert hill lived on a hill

would that alter the timeline?

[errant estuary]

septic hill

[azure bay]

For this specific case I see no reason for a literal name

[austere spoke]

Besides, vanderboom, vandermeer and eilanders are not last names that are in english, but Hill is

This doesn't really make sense, but it's just something i realized lol

[carmine field]

makes sense if you consider that Bob lives in NYC

and that Rusty Lake may be located in Europe

oh, nvm

I didn't read the context

[austere spoke]

Yeah lol

Maybe duchmen in rl have a curse about their last names that have to agree with their lives

[errant estuary]

they are likely immigrants

[dire cobalt]

i didnt understand the discussion until u said this 😭

poor dutch people getting bound to the lake and shit

WAIT

DOES EILANDER MEAN ISLANDER!?!??!?!??!?!?!!

[frosty wolf]

yess it does

[dire cobalt]

mind equal to blown

[honest brook]

And Vanderboom means “of the tree”

[dire cobalt]

vandermeer-"of the lake"

[austere spoke]

ruined my whole theory lol

[errant estuary]

i mostly say this because the eilanders were clearly important, and james measured in pounds when he cooked the elixir

[austere spoke]

haven't played twd yet 😭 😭 I actually should play it asap

[errant estuary]

do

[honest brook]

you should

[austere spoke]

I will!

[carmine field]

I don't think we should take these street names literally

They seem to be more references to Rusty Lake than anything real in itself

If the Lake was so well known, Dale wouldn't have so much trouble figuring out what Rusty Lake was

Besides, this city is apparently NYC

[honest brook]

It looks like it just happened to be called Eilander St and it's not directly named after them

[errant estuary]

idk, i just like the idea that it was a local faith thing, but that it was forgotten

[dire cobalt]

oh so the immigrants thing is probably true

[carmine field]

at least for Laura

[errant estuary]

i dont know if this was a form of measurement outside the us in the 1870s

[dire cobalt]

i mean there's also the fact that they probably don't actually put 16lbs of liquids in there

...unless

[remote remnant]

I am certain the lake is in europe

even tho there is a rusty lake in canada

[dire cobalt]

hmm i doubt it is a real life lake, i think the entiee thing happening in eu and then laura being an immigrant would make sense

in underground blossom when rose is in the crib station with laura they do look like newcomers

and she asks your help and stuff

[errant estuary]

right

[dire cobalt]

perhaps that whole thing happens in the usa

[errant estuary]

im trying to think of how mr owl can be in both europe and the us simultaneously, without mixing them up

[dire cobalt]

i don't think you should think about anything that mr owl does

u will get lost

(unlike mr owl, from the looks of it)

[remote remnant]

What if rusty lake is in Scotland

[dire cobalt]

im trying to imagine them talking in scottish accent

[errant estuary]

Gerard, in scottish accent: "Have you seen her!? She hasn't eaten anything!"
Elizabeth: "Excuse you! I've-I've eaten Asbestos!"

[honest brook]

I think it's in Amsterdam. All the names are Dutch plus that's where the developers are based.

[dire cobalt]

today i learned the uncle's name. when u said gerard all i could think of was gerard way drawn in rusty lake stule

[errant estuary]

i dont know what to do with this information

[dire cobalt]

the possibilities are endless (the answer is draw gerard way in rusty lake style but we will pretend like we don't know that)

actually i will do that tomorrow dw about it

[errant estuary]

i only know about it because of my immortal

and that’s a bad thing

[dire cobalt]

[dire cobalt]

BDKSBDKABDOSBDOABDOABDOABDOABDJA

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 literally perfect

[remote remnant]

goated fanfic

[errant estuary]

i just had a headcanon-ish epiphany
mr boar’s a diplomat because maybe gerard mediated between everyone
mr rabbit is a magician because david pulled a lot of stunts to get people’s attention
ms pheasant is an actress because elizabeth just kind of was given some tasks it seems, and did them, but only the bare minimum of the directions

[dire cobalt]

that makes a lot of sense

ms pheasant is still one of the most mysterious characters tbh

[remote remnant]

Gerard the peaceful

[dire cobalt]

so peaceful, making me clean up his shit

[errant estuary]

he was chill when elizabeth cut his ear off

[dire cobalt]

okay that's a fair argument

...

[errant estuary]

did not do shit, just went “okay.”

[dire cobalt]

GERARD IS VAN GOGH???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

the lore deepens

[dire cobalt]

tbh if elizabeth was my niece i'd let her cut off my ear too

she knows the best

[untold stump]

Deer is an architect because he's interested in the Lake and the Hotel is on top of it and Pigeon is a scientist because Margaret was the person who had to figure out what was wrong when something bad occured (like Gerard dying)

[remote remnant]

ok but out of ALL the people on the island he chose the ONLY person who couldn't be trusted with sharp objects cut his hair so it was pretty much on him

[dire cobalt]

true he shouldve asked jakob instead he can 100% be trusted with sharp objects

[untold stump]

Tbh Id trust Elizabeth more than Nicholas or David to cut my hair

[austere spoke]

Yeah

[remote remnant]

there isnt much of a choice in paradise

[austere spoke]

Idk why but i hate Nicholas

U can judge me

[untold stump]

Get the goat and cow to cut your hair seems like the safest option I think

[dire cobalt]

sounds more like hell to me 😞

Is nicholas the dad

[honest brook]

yes

[remote remnant]

yes

[austere spoke]

Yes

[untold stump]

ya

[dire cobalt]

unpopular opinion i think but to me nicholas has one of the best designs idk i just rwally like his character design

[austere spoke]

Hmm

[untold stump]

Well dad of Jakob Lizzie and David

[dire cobalt]

you can tell what kind of person he is immediately

[austere spoke]

Still hate him

[dire cobalt]

lol fair

[remote remnant]

where did he even get such clothes on a random island

[austere spoke]

LIZZIE

[dire cobalt]

i don't think there is a character in rusty lake that i actually hate

[dire cobalt]

💸💸💸

[austere spoke]

Lol

[austere spoke]

I do

[errant estuary]

he made them all weave that

[remote remnant]

does being born in RL just come with the ability to solve complex puzzles?

[austere spoke]

Also don't really like David

But hes kind of iconic

[remote remnant]

unpopular opinion i dont like albert all that much

[austere spoke]

ME NEITHER

[remote remnant]

he's funny but he traumatised leonard

[austere spoke]

He traumatised eveeyone

[dire cobalt]

no only if you have childhood trauma

[austere spoke]

Im included in that list btw

[dire cobalt]

that does not really narrow it down tho

wait guys i have a question

w
who do we play as in roots

[remote remnant]

william

[honest brook]

william

[austere spoke]

William

[dire cobalt]

what 😦😦

how

[austere spoke]

Yeah

[dire cobalt]

i cannot comprehend that

[remote remnant]

why didnt the other siblings do things on paradise then

[errant estuary]

the lake gives its most confusing situations to its most autistic soldiers

[dire cobalt]

why would they 😔 its too much work

[austere spoke]

Do u know when we look at the mirror?

[dire cobalt]

who wants to solve a fucking slider puzzle out of nowhere

[austere spoke]

Ill search for the print

[remote remnant]

HC is they spoiled david thats why he's a prick

[austere spoke]

Ohhh

[errant estuary]

but they cant read

[austere spoke]

Remember when rose used the Ouija?

[dire cobalt]

oh noo i forgot

[dire cobalt]

yep

[austere spoke]

We said that we were William!!!

[dire cobalt]

OH

OH TRUE!!

[austere spoke]

Remember?

[dire cobalt]

WE DID

Woah

[austere spoke]

YEEEEH

[dire cobalt]

God damn how many generations did this bitch live through

[errant estuary]

and also it seems only jakob can access the cubes

[austere spoke]

Lol

[errant estuary]

the rest of them just cant

[austere spoke]

Why

[dire cobalt]

he got that sacrifice rizz

[untold stump]

Because of Caroline probably

She only liked him

[austere spoke]

Ohhh

[remote remnant]

He indirectly killed his whole family to get revived only to end himself 💀

[honest brook]

Nicholas was holding one of the cubes in Plague 4 though

[remote remnant]

yes but he couldnt access it

thats why he said he needs her memories

[errant estuary]

“i did it, i saved my son”
“your two other kids are still stuck in the cult”
“this aint about them”

[austere spoke]

I consider Jakob as a victim

[untold stump]

He was trying to open it but couldnt

[honest brook]

oh yeah, true

[austere spoke]

Lol

[dire cobalt]

damn picking favourites 😒 i see what kind of mom u are CAROLINE

[remote remnant]

i mean david and elizabeth arent dead by the time of paradise so its pretty good standards for RL parenting

[austere spoke]

What can we do? He IS the first born

[austere spoke]

I see that as a revenge

[remote remnant]

the biggest question about RL is when and how did mr owl build the hotel

[austere spoke]

🤷

[remote remnant]

did he just come back and ask his family to help in owl form?

[remote remnant]

how?

[austere spoke]

And where did the eilanders go after that?

[errant estuary]

actually i will put up another suggestion: they genuinely dont believe david and elizabeth would survive outside of paradise because of david’s diabetes and elizabeth being blind

[honest brook]

Mr Crow probably helped, didn't he say "mr owl needs me" in Roots

[austere spoke]

Were they now homeless?

[untold stump]

Oo thats a nice guess

[remote remnant]

yes but in 1860 the hotel is already built and it seems like quite a large build

[errant estuary]

they probably were dead by then

[austere spoke]

Idk, maybe he was mad because they wanted to sacrifice him but sacrificed Caroline instead

[honest brook]

well Paradise and Roots are like 70 years apart

[austere spoke]

Maybe the fact that Caroline and Jakob were only one person now

[remote remnant]

i was talking about the family in roots

[austere spoke]

Maybe Caroline wanted revenge

[untold stump]

He possibly helped build the Hotel. The question is how much did Owl tell Crow, its possible that Owl gave Crow the whole idea for the elixir and actually be ebhind all the events of Roots

[austere spoke]

?

Ohhhh ok

William

I thought u were talking about Jakob

Lol

Yeah

Killed everyone just to kill him/herself

[dire cobalt]

trying to name a single parent that stayed with their child till the end 😭😭😭

[honest brook]

Mary?

[errant estuary]

margaret

[dire cobalt]

where was she when her kids were bullying their sibling

[dire cobalt]

OKAY

That's it

[austere spoke]

?

[honest brook]

why would she be in every single scenario

[errant estuary]

what we dont get to see is her joining in to make fun of albert becase she just really hates him for no good reason

[austere spoke]

🤷🤷🤷

[floral mauve]

my theory on that is that she was a traditional housewife and her husband does not care about the houseworks, she is alcoholic etc

mary life is very sad

[untold stump]

She unexpectedly had triplets and had only prepared herself to love one child

[dire cobalt]

DONT JUSTIFY HER BULLYING HER KID !! /LH

[austere spoke]

OH, IM SO DUMB

I thought u guys were talking about emma

Lol

I get It now

[errant estuary]

this is so them (warning: barely comprehensible incantations)

[austere spoke]

Barely comprehensible?!!

I cant understand a single thing

May someone translate this?

[errant estuary]

okay
albert: mom, cant we stop at MAX, i want a luxury shake
silense
ablbert: STOP, AT MAX
silence
albert: welp, then ill jump out the window, if we dont stop
mary: hell yeah, albert, do it, ill undo the child lock, and then you can jump midspeed, you can do that, albert

[austere spoke]

LOL

Poor him

What language is this btw

[errant estuary]

swedish

[austere spoke]

K

[frosty wolf]

but the thing is netherlands dont have no mountains..

top ten theory- rl is in the uk

[honest brook]

oh yeah

[floral mauve]

now it seems to be more of Canada

somehow they like Canada even in Arg

[errant estuary]

it is probably exactly at the border

dale gets dragged to ontario/quebec /j

[remote remnant]

people REALLY overestimare the albert bullying. He was kinda being an arse to emma and tbh compared to what some siblings do to each other it was pretty tame

people dont hate on william enough for giving a baby wine

[cold moss]

It’s how things were done back in the day

Nothing is better for a growing child then a nice earthy vintage

It gives the brain some vigour

[dire cobalt]

i don't think so

you don't need to compare things for it to be bad

[dire cobalt]

well they should!

[azure bay]

We don't know if it was actually William

there's no way he did everything we do in the game

[errant estuary]

that’d be funny though

crusty old man ruins everything for his family, more at 5

[dire cobalt]

IM SAYING LIKE HOW MANY GENERATIONS DID HE LIVE THROUGH

[azure bay]

Technically 1, time-wise around 2

If we consider nothing beyond Roots I mean

He lived for around 60 years before he died

[dire cobalt]

isnt william james' uncle?

[azure bay]

he is, why?

[dire cobalt]

he already looked 60 when the game started 😭😭😭

[azure bay]

that's exactly what I'm saying

[errant estuary]

lmaoooooo

crusty 120 year old ghost ruins everything /j

[dire cobalt]

NO SAY IT DON'T BE SCARED. SAY /SRS. YOU KNOW YOU'RE RIGHT.

I mean

it IS true that he is a ghost innit

he communicates with rose thru the uhh

ounaihsoajsoaksabd board

Ouija board

[errant estuary]

i know, but it’s the dumbest description of roots

weegee board

[untold stump]

Random thought I had but could the pen and paper thing the devs have planned involve Aldous and William's other sibling ? Or since the Devs never acknowledged them it's stay like that ?

[azure bay]

I don't really think so

the pen is way too modern

[errant estuary]

so far i think that aldous is james’ father

until we get a new vanderboom

[untold stump]

Wasn't Aldous also referred to as an uncle ?

[errant estuary]

?

[azure bay]

then he's 1 heck of a terrible father if his even more mysterious disappearance didn't budge James

[azure bay]

He wasn't

[errant estuary]

“hey dad, i looked at the windows of the hotel youre working at also why are you still working oh and by the way please get retired already, and i saw a bunch of animals there… whats up with that?”

[azure bay]

for 1, Aldous is considered dead in human world
for 2, I don't think James saw asuras and even able to unless they want to

[untold stump]

Seeing your dad to a furry convention next door must have been a huge shock, no wonder why James didn't hesitate to drink the elixir after that

[errant estuary]

bro faked his death 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[dire cobalt]

idk why i thought aldous was his uncle aswell

[azure bay]

I can tell why I think he is

because it doesn't require them to know each other well

which means simple relationship that doesn't stretch the plot

[errant estuary]

tbh i could think he was a deadbeat tho

[dire cobalt]

whatever he is, i'd pay him to be my crow therapist

his voice alone would cure all my problems /hj

[errant estuary]

do you think the guests are in for mental issues

[azure bay]

Boar is

the rest are working for/with Owl one way or another

[untold stump]

The other probably not

Ms Pigeon and Deer seemed to want smth from going to the Lake

[dire cobalt]

i wonder what she was planning

mr deer is kind of understandable

someone mentioned about his architecture plans yesterday

[azure bay]

Rehearsing her play

[azure bay]

he was actually interested in what was below Hotel

[errant estuary]

she was carrying the entire theatre on her back with all of that work she’s doing

[austere spoke]

I do not know how many times I saw this picture

Always showing up

[errant estuary]

im robbing you rn

now give me five dollars

[austere spoke]

😱😱😱

I only have reais

[dire cobalt]

of course mr boar is rich, he eats his own shit

infinite food glitch

[errant estuary]

lmao

[austere spoke]

OH MY. You were smart on that

[errant estuary]

ms pheasant and mr rabbit out here staying at their employer’s hotel because theyre destitute while mr boar is on that grind

[untold stump]

But Boar rlly feels like a special guest

[austere spoke]

When the hotel was built, where did the eilanders go???

[untold stump]

He comes here because of his mental health, we need Mr Crow to be ablyto kill him, and he's not related to Owl like Pheasant and Rabbit nor is he really "evil" like Pigeon or Deer

[untold stump]

They were enlightened and probably got out of there in animal form

[austere spoke]

But where?

Homeless animals😓

[dire cobalt]

wait is hotel built on the paradise or what

[austere spoke]

Apparently, yes(??)

[dire cobalt]

GOD DAMN

Jakob is ruthless

he said imma destroy u all on the very land that you fucked me over on

[errant estuary]

ms pheasant robbing the hotel confirmed /j

[austere spoke]

headcannon fr

[dire cobalt]

honestly? she has that vibe AND potential

[remote remnant]

evicted

[austere spoke]

sure

poor homeless eilanders

[stone bramble]

I would do anythingggg for rusty lake to expand on where the animal people live

because they have their own careers and relationships

I wanna know everything what’s their society like

[errant estuary]

same

[dire cobalt]

OTA (opium trade agreements)

[errant estuary]

i know damy isn’t the keeper of rusty lake lore, but i’ll take this to mean mr boar did war crimes

[vivid bridge]

with how much business Mr. Owl has in the human cities, there might not be any special animal people cities. They all just live with humans

[errant estuary]

i assume they all put on a human suit when going outside

[vivid bridge]

I just want a confirmation on whether or not there are naturally born animal people

[errant estuary]

id assume there are

otherwise the guests would be about a century old

[azure bay]

the more we know the less we are sure

[vivid bridge]

The issue with the guests is that its hard to tell what is retconned and what isn't. When Hotel came out, all the guests had listed ages and jobs and shit, which contradict with the Eilanders. So that either means they are different people/the Eilanders reborn in a natural way without any of the memories OR they are the same and those inconsistencies are just retcons

I wish we could just... know which one it is

[azure bay]

I reckon transformation with memory loss isn't to rule out either

[stone bramble]

perhaps but I feel like there would be examples of that if that was the case

unless they can turn into humans or smth

I think it might be the eilanders are the hotel guests but without their memories

but idk how david can exist while there’s 2 rabbits

[vivid bridge]

I think the devs were asked about that and said that both rabbits are the same person so???

I don't get it either

[stone bramble]

dale don’t look now there’s 3 rabbits out on the loose

[errant estuary]

he is in his edgy phase

[dire cobalt]

WAIT WHAT WHO'S THE 2ND RABIT

[vivid bridge]

yeah okay but how do two of them exist at the same time

[errant estuary]

yeah

[errant estuary]

that is a ghost

i dont get it

[vivid bridge]

yeah but he isn't dead yet

ALSO

[errant estuary]

but i guess its to show hes good as dead now

[vivid bridge]

he's not actually the corrupted soul. It's a small but consistent detail that the window guy/the birthday rabbit has whiskers while the hotel rabbit's ghost doesn't

which lead me and many others to speculate that they were in fact different people

[dire cobalt]

oh that's just jared, dw about it /j

[azure bay]

that isn't a big enough difference to declare him non-corrupted

[errant estuary]

odd

[dire cobalt]

it could be an art error

[vivid bridge]

but its so consistent

even in Hotel

when we see Hotel Rabbit's soul, it doesn't have whiskers while Birthday Rabbit always does

its a weird detail but it must be intentional

again, both appear in the same game so they made the deliberate decision to do that

[dire cobalt]

i have a feeling they would make a bigger difference in that case, but i cannot say for sure and you could be correct

[azure bay]

not necessarily. These could be different iterations of the same design forgotten in the game

[vivid bridge]

but in the other games its consistent too

[errant estuary]

yeah, like, thats the kind of mistake id make

[carmine field]

Maybe it's a sign of the character's evolution during his journey?

[azure bay]

what other games exactly?

[vivid bridge]

in paradox he has whiskers

in the cave the CS doesn't

[errant estuary]

idk, i just go for the old razor: when in doubt, i will pick the more compelling option

which is that its the same guy

[azure bay]

in Paradox he's meant to represent his Bday version. In The Cave they use a low-detail mural drawing for him.

My point is that his CS in Hotel specifically behind the window could be an error

[vivid bridge]

you don't accidentally put whiskers on a guy

especially like

why rabbit specifically

[azure bay]

you don't see the bigger picture here

[vivid bridge]

if its just to show he's about to die, why doesn't every guest have a window ghost

it's specifically rabbit who has a unique sprite, who has an appearance in the next game specifically looking like the window ghost

its so specific

it can't just be an error

[azure bay]

you don't see the bigger picture

[errant estuary]

mr deer has a skull on the wall, ms pheasant has the imagery of two puppets killing each other

[azure bay]

Brown Rabbit uses the same muzzle as any version of the white one from 2015-2016

and he has the same whiskers as the window CS

[vivid bridge]

yes but the actual CS in that game doesn't

which is consistent with the CS in the other games inside the lake

[azure bay]

it does minus the whiskers

[vivid bridge]

if its just supposed to be a teaser for his death, why make a unique sprite? Why not reuse the one from the ending

and again, why then give Birthday Rabbit the whiskers

while at the same time giving bottom of the lake CS rabbit no whiskers

at that point it has to be intentional

[azure bay]

what I see possible here is that they used brown Rabbit's whiskers for the window CS then removed them for the tank one and forgot to use it everywhere

[errant estuary]

whiskers slicked and invisible in water /j

[vivid bridge]

but then they put it on Birthday rabbit and then removed it again for the cave? and then added it again for Paradox?

[azure bay]

the cave doesn't matter because it uses the low-detail design

they reuse the mural version of him

and even if it is intentional that doesn't automatically mean Rabbit's sudden non-corruption

[vivid bridge]

I'm not saying he's not corrupted

i'm just saying that there's something there, which is why the devs "they're the same guy" bothers me so much

[azure bay]

I hope there's something too

but I still find the otherwise possible

[limpid cedar]

I have a question (again)
how did all the guests in the hotel die but we still get to see them in games that are later in the timeline. or am I just confused about the timeline

[errant estuary]

so far i just got theyre ghosts, and some of them put on human skinsuits

[azure bay]

who do you mean wearing skinsuits?

[honest brook]

Mr Rabbit maybe? In Birthday

[azure bay]

I don't think he's human human there at all

and I don't really think dumbig meant him

Rabbit doesn't look human

[errant estuary]

just, i think that asura sometimes pose as humans

[cold moss]

Rabbit was a human I think

[azure bay]

I find this unlikely for many reasons.

1. Corrupted jumpscares
2. "Hungry ghost" written in 2 languages on the chest
3. Willing to kill in order to be reborn yet being reluctant about that

[cold moss]

Was

[errant estuary]

crack theory: rusty lake’s a micronation at the borders of new york state, quebec and ontario

[azure bay]

Depends on when

[cold moss]

Before/during the events if hotel

Since the way I see it Mr Owl lured various socialites to the hotel to recreate the ritual that gave him enlightenment

For what reason? I’m not sure, possibly to create the soul of dale?

Or to mass produce black cubes?

When did white cubes appear?

Plus we see a premonition of Dale at the end of hotel

[errant estuary]

it is likely so he can get an awareness of the future

[azure bay]

I don't see it as recreating Paradise. Paradise likely wasn't even a thing back in 2015 how poorly are the Eilanders written into continuity

[azure bay]

The goals however are more or less clear

The ultimate result of Hotel is a white cube that shows the future

notably the future of Dale's arrival to the hotel

[cold moss]

Doesn’t mean it can’t be retconned/be in headcannon

Paradise>hotel anyway

[azure bay]

The events are too different both by looks and effects. The change would be too obscure for a retcon. Headcanons blind us ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[azure bay]

and Eilanders>The guests but it's not only about the place and the participants. It's also about what they are doing and how

[cold moss]

They take place in the same location and have reflecting animal motifs

It’s obscure but the connection is certainly there and up for interpretation

[errant estuary]

not so fun fact, deer, rabbits and pheasants do cannibalize each other (pheasants are particularly notorious for being one of the worst in that)

[cold moss]

Especially since the Eilanders were trying to preform some ritual to get something from the lake

And Mr Owl may use similar components but with more knowledge/scientific rigour

[azure bay]

There are 2 different stories that are definitely connected by place, characters and continuity but have 2 completely different results.

the story of Paradise is being repeated

but it has next to nothing to do with the guests themselves

it's about Dale and this story is yet to be finished

Hotel was only foreshadowing it

[cold moss]

I mean, RL is certainly tried to create clear parallels in Paradise, especially with the motifs

It can’t just be dismissed

[cold moss]

Never said it did though

[azure bay]

I'm not trying to do that

[cold moss]

They are components in the ritual, and take similar positions to the Eianders 100 years before

[azure bay]

what ritual?

[cold moss]

Experiment

What Mr owl is attempting in Hotel

To forsee dale

I think he is looking at what his family did, and recreateing what they tried to do, but in a more advanced, scientific and potent way

To form an interface with the lake

[azure bay]

and that is very different from what the happened in Paradise. The immideate goal of the Eilanders was much bigger and they technically did more for it.

Technically, Owl's end goal is grander than the one his family used to follow

and while killing Jakob was the most crucial part for them, for Owl killing the guests is just a small step

and it is small in comparison to the day of the lake

[cold moss]

Well I think mr owl is more able to preform these ritual ls for a specific purpose, and a purpose that serves a larger plan

Sine the Eilanders had a more basic understanding and a much more religious relationship with the lake

[azure bay]

I'm telling ya, even if we can consider Owl killing the guests a ritual, it has nothing to do with the day of the lake and enlightenment.

[cold moss]

It’s an interface with the lake

A way to interact with it more deeply

It serves more then one purpose

[azure bay]

I've never heard of the games using this terminology or othervise hinting at something like that

[cold moss]

and I think Mr Owl came to understand the nature of the lake after enlightenment, and the understanding that his family had was flawed, they just vaguely knew it’s power

[azure bay]

we don't even know how exctly he got the prophecy cube to make such a statement

[carmine field]

The Eilanders' goal was to sacrifice Jakob to achieve enlightenment on the Day of the Lake.

Owl's goal was to kill and extract the guests' memories and create the white cube.

Seems like completely different situations to me. We need more concrete evidence before we treat it as the same event carried out in different ways. Who knows, perhaps the Day of the Lake foretold in UB will give us an answer.

Besides, the Hotel event is not really a Day of the Lake, but rather five days of slaughter

The fact that we only have one example of a Day of the Lake and only assumptions about the next one makes it difficult to theorize about it

[cold moss]

I was just saying that the connective motifs likely hints at something

and how Mr Owl may have refined methods that his family had as tradition to achieve more specific goals

as an explanation for the connecting motifs

[azure bay]

and you don't really need the Hotel game or the guests to say all that

[cold moss]

but in that specific context of mirroring symbols

[azure bay]

you are overthinking this, many would rather see that simply as a revenge story

[cold moss]

that a 'machine' of somewhat similar form (though perhaps quite different like a microscope and a camera) to fufil what he was trying to do

[carmine field]

I don't doubt that there was something behind the killing (like the fact that the guests were the target and not anyone else), but it's such a vague hint that it could be anything

[cold moss]

Well the use of death and the animal symbols is the only thing I was concerned about, the latter more then the former

but what I was saying was ultimately very simple and not trying to come up with too many fundamental statements about RL's lore/cosmology

i.e. that the connection between the animal motifs likely has some significance

[azure bay]

Hotel's goal was to establish Owl's character and hint at his goals. Paradise was mostly an overdone origin story.

[cold moss]

but against completly unrelated people to his long dead famely members?

this is why I find the revenge theory a bit odd, its as out there as any other interpretation

[azure bay]

wait, you think the Eilanders aren't the guests?

[cold moss]

100 years have passed

[azure bay]

that doesn't matter for Owl

[carmine field]

Did you play chapter 2 of Paradox?

[cold moss]

and all the guests seem to have an existance outside of RL and not just be ghosts

[azure bay]

do you know at least about samsara?

[cold moss]

as in the game? the concept?

[azure bay]

RL universe is built on samsara and it's not even a theory, it's a fact already

[cold moss]

as in the guests are reicarnations?

[azure bay]

exactly

and they likely earned their reincarnation as eldrich beings in Paradise thanks to the ritual they performed

[cold moss]

Well potentially, when did his famely members die though

since some of them were quite young and most of the guests seem middle aged

[azure bay]

the thing is, they potentially may have never died before Hotel.

Mr. Crow for example didn't. He simply transformed

[cold moss]

well yeah but we know nothing about there fates

what implies they achieved immortality/enlightenment

since it seems to have been granted to Mr Owl and not them

[azure bay]

we know for sure that Mr. Rabbit is David Eilander. And he had only 1 opportunity to ascend and he shared it with his family

[carmine field]

Yeah, we don't know how they ascended for sure, but it's certain that at least David is one of Rabbit's past lives because of chapter 2 of Paradox

[azure bay]

I'm pretty sure it was the result of their Paradise ritual

[carmine field]

It's likely, but the circumstances of the guests are still quite hazy because the best references we have about enlightenment are Crow and Owl

both consumed the Elixir, but the Eilanders did not

[cold moss]

Could they have been absorbed and 'purified' by the lake

Afterwards being reincarnated

[azure bay]

why do you think so?

[cold moss]

just speculation

I am trying to determine if the guests are different people with the same soul

[azure bay]

It's complicated

do you remember William?

[cold moss]

yeah

That actually connects

but it brings up the concept of certain reincarnations having a sacrificial element

though William could have said to be sacrificed before he became Laura

as he died so Aldous could ascend

[azure bay]

My point is, Laura's cubes are confirmed to contain his memories about the elixir but we don't see her acting like she actively remembers it

We have Mr. Rabbit who clearly identifies himself as David Eilander in 1939. But does he in 1893?

[cold moss]

I mean that could go into my components theory, and some of the guests seem to have intrest and knowlage of the lakes nature

[cold moss]

well he had become a corrupted soul at that point (I think?)

So he have knowledge of multiple previous lives?

[carmine field]

none for sure, but we know it happens

unless you consider the corrupted soul as a reincarnation

which makes sense when you look at the wheel of Samsara

[cold moss]

but dale is both a human and a corrupted soul at the same time

[carmine field]

I would say he has become a corrupted soul for real, but at a stage where he alternates between neutrality and corruption

like Bob

[cold moss]

We never see hm die though, so he has not reincarnated at least in a traditional sense

I guess Bob shoots himself, though I think he survives that?

[azure bay]

The devs said that corruption is a samsara form of multiple degrees and none samsara form is irreversible

It seems Dale is balancing between 2 states

[cold moss]

Dale is special though

But is Harvey also balanced between several states?

And don't we see Mr Crow as a corrupted soul in Harvey's box or is that someone else?

[carmine field]

Harvey is treated as an animal on the wheel of Samsara after he became a bird

[carmine field]

someone else

[cold moss]

when does Harvey's box take place, it does not seem to be the 19th century even though that would make sence

[azure bay]

1969

[carmine field]

more specifically, the same corrupted soul from The Lake

[cold moss]

oh ok then, that makes things a bit less confusing in terms of time

[carmine field]

most of Harvey's Box takes place in the same setting as The Lake

[cold moss]

Ah the Lake

[carmine field]

It's part of Laura's trip to the Lake

[cold moss]

did the Lake have to be retconned in, since it is a weird entry and feels off compared to all the other games in the series

[errant estuary]

might be

[carmine field]

the order of events for Laura's early arc (Seasons, The Lake and Harvey's Box) is very uncertain

[errant estuary]

but it works as an entry point, in which we know as much as laura

[carmine field]

nowhere made two very good videos about this

[cold moss]

Laura's timeline is confusing anyway

[azure bay]

I'm not proud of the quality though

[errant estuary]

and how she is quickly overcome by the horror of the corrupted souls

i still think that was a big culprit of her downward spiral and mental deterioration

[carmine field]

We don't even know how Seasons fits in with UB for sure, we have some hints but nothing unbeatable

[cold moss]

UB is very metaphorical even for RL I feel

[floral mauve]

probably revolving around blossom

like the part Harvey got released for flower

[errant estuary]

maybe im projecting a bit from my own experience of becoming very paranoid in my teenage years, but in my mind laura’s last few years were spent in fear

[floral mauve]

according to UB its childhood trauma then controlled by social interactions like Bob

[errant estuary]

likely

[cold moss]

We see the final stations become more deteriorated

[floral mauve]

then she no longer able to control it

[errant estuary]

yeah

[floral mauve]

for some unknown reasons

which is the lake trip

and they just dont include it in UB

so we just see the result

[floral mauve]

like how exactly would it worsen Laura's illness so that even twd doctors cant help

[cold moss]

Was the White door connected to Mr Owl/Mr Crow though?

unfortunately this might all be to prime her for her place in the plan

[errant estuary]

either because of her lying (which is a thing people will sometimes do out of shame), or just neglect

[cold moss]

which is one of a sacrificial victim

[errant estuary]

or that she got the wrong medication

[floral mauve]

that wont make sense

[cold moss]

Being a mandrake with some old guys soul is a disorder that is not very well understood.

[carmine field]

Always been connected

The guy with glasses on TWD is Mr. Owl

On your computer, you will find a login with the abbreviation "O."

And The White Door is part of Rusty Lake Mental Health and Fishing

[cold moss]

Well so did they want to help her?

it's not like her death was not part of the plan

[carmine field]

apparently yes

[floral mauve]

in UB it seems yes

[errant estuary]

sometimes, people youre supposed to be able to trust abuse their power over you

especially if they were born back in the eighteenth century

[floral mauve]

I mean technically, at the beginning or when Laura was alive, Owl doesnt even know her name

[carmine field]

I disagree

He knew Dale's name but didn't mention it in the other note from The Mill

[azure bay]

I assume these are the devs who didn't know her name at the beginning

[floral mauve]

hopefully

the woman is just funny

[carmine field]

"the young woman" or smth

emphasis on "the"

which means she wasn't just anyone, but someone they knew

[floral mauve]

eh

nvm

[azure bay]

I guess that could be because she visited the lake in... well... The Lake

[carmine field]

It's an interesting point

[errant estuary]

and we know what happened then, we do not need to repeat… The Incident /j

[azure bay]

what incident?

[errant estuary]

[carmine field]

👁️

[cold moss]

the screenshot reminds me of Northern Journey

if you know of that game

[vivid bridge]

so many theories and yet so few games to answer them

😔

[dire cobalt]

[austere spoke]

i tried to scroll down...

[dire cobalt]

HAHAHAHA 😭😭

[cold moss]

I thought it was not loading fully

like the image was not being sent properly

[cold moss]

What Exacly are Frank, Rose and Laura