🤔｜theories

[azure bay]

another word for that is overthinking

[steel imp]

Since I'm filling the gaps and not adding unnecessary material

Mine can be categorized as a possibility

This possibility would explain Mr. Rabbit in birthday having appereance basically identical to its corrhpted soul

Being made out of flesh

And leaving a black cube behind

[azure bay]

a single very specific possibility in an infinite space of other possibilities without anything to make it stand out.

[steel imp]

Read the messages thay you have above

[steel imp]

Not only this actually

It could also explain Mr. Rabbit letter

A mindless ghost usually doesn't do that

[azure bay]

"could explain" is a bad excuse. Geocentric theory also could explain the world. And phlogiston could explain fire

[steel imp]

Right

Explains

[azure bay]

no, it's still could

[steel imp]

You have no better possibility

Saying that Mr. Rabbit is on another level

Makes it illogical

Tell me

What level is Mr. Rabbit on?

[azure bay]

that doesn't mean that yours has right to be taken too seriously

we've seen a ton of corrupted souls

[azure bay]

every corrupted soul except for one is void black

[steel imp]

This one

Would be Mr. Rabbit?

[azure bay]

yes, Rabbit. He's white

[steel imp]

Ok

So

How do you explain him being made out of flesh?

Having clothes?

[azure bay]

wait

I'm not speaking of him

I'm speaking of the corpse

[steel imp]

?

[azure bay]

I'll eventually get to Rabbit

[steel imp]

Aaah ok

Okok go on

[vivid bridge]

They did kinda change Mr. Rabbit's corrupted soul in The Cave, though it might just be shading since he's more of a silhouette

[azure bay]

so we have a ton of pitch black CS 7 of them had to stay inside their old body for a while before being liberated

maybe not even corrupted, by the way

they could be just normal souls waiting for rebirth

while there's some window of time when people like Owl could do something with them

like extracting memories

or resurrecting like Harvey

also we have 5 examples of corruption before our eyes

which mostly spreads over a body like some Venom creature

so based on all that, I'm saying that the soul Laura catches up from the lake is more likely than not to follow these 3 rules

1. It's not just a CS because it's not black
2. It's a "dormant" CS because it's inside the corpse which was never fully animated onscreen.
3. It doesn't fully awaken onscreen because the pitch-black corruption doesn't consume it.

and therefore, more likely than not, we can't use it as a reference to explain Rabbit

[steel imp]

Great

So now

Explain Rabbit

[azure bay]

I admit that Rabbit is weird and you may disagree with my reasoning

which is

1. Jumpscares, the writings on the chest and a killing intent for the sake of balancing corrupted souls let me think that he's somehow a CS

[steel imp]

I think that he's a CS, just to be on the same page

[azure bay]

(while despite all, he could still be a human wearing a mask)

[steel imp]

Maybe I can save you this part of explanation

[azure bay]

2. He has a substance balancing journey which in cases of Dale and Laura implied some form of time travel

And speaking of time travel, no matter what one could say, he still looks a lot like brown Rabbit's soul. Which in most cases (if not all) immediately means equivalence

[steel imp]

So you are confirming that he's a corrupted soul

[azure bay]

what I'm saying

the creature in Rabbit's window is likely his corrupted soul

and connecting Birthday Rabbit to them is a different conclusion

But indeed, Bday Rabbit looks like Hotel Rabbit's corrupted souls

and considering the clues about his possible corruption, the fact he's called Mr. Rabbit, the fact he's a magician and the lack of other asuras that could be Eilanders I indeed state that all 4 Mr. Rabbits are the same creature

[steel imp]

We're on the same page on that

But I need to understand

[azure bay]

I'm getting there

but now I need to make a step back

Rabbit's corruption

[steel imp]

You still stand by this claim?

That he has evolved?

[steel imp]

Oke fine

[azure bay]

for that I need 2 more puzzle pieces (If I'm not forgetting things)

There are still crazy fanfic-level possibilities concerning hints of Rabbit's corruption

they may say that he "used to be" corrupted

also he could be corrupted but possessing someone's body

but I don't really consider the latter until it's proven possible

(wow an idea that you could possess a cube version of the cube owner by entering the cube, just a footnote)

that was 1 of the pieces

the 2nd one

as I said earlier, whiskers could actually mean something

since I've already established that the window souls is a time traveler, it could somehow get its whiskers somewhen on its way there

[vivid bridge]

I don't get how you get from "its collecting substances of its past live" to "its a time traveller"

[azure bay]

We've got Dale and Laura

[steel imp]

Because evolving journeys always involve time travel

[vivid bridge]

Dale and Laura don't time travel, though. And also they don't collect their substances

[steel imp]

Dale and Laura time travel

They collect their suvstances

They face their ghost of their past lives

And they are learnong about samsara

[vivid bridge]

yeah but thats not time travelling

thats visiting memories

well

hrngh

they time travel inside the memories

[steel imp]

No. They are not memories. Cubes are doors to realities that got discovered with memories extraction

[vivid bridge]

thats a theory

[steel imp]

The Past is a cube, and it's the actual past

[steel imp]

No, it's not

[azure bay]

ok, even supposing it's not the case

[steel imp]

Have you played TPW?

[azure bay]

he did

[vivid bridge]

y'all are way overthinking some of this stuff

[steel imp]

Then there's little to theorize

[azure bay]

and I can tell where exactly I'm overthinking

[vivid bridge]

thats... good I guess?

[azure bay]

he theorized in a different direction and I beg you not to go there yet

ok, let's suppose, the cube multiverse isn't a thing

but already assuming that Window Rabbit and Tank Rabbit are the same, some form of time travel is necessary

maybe exclusive for corrupted souls

[vivid bridge]

or its a different person

[azure bay]

there were cases where even the lesser resemblance was enough to prove the equivalence

like Mr. Owl and The Manager

[vivid bridge]

yeah but Mr. Owl and the Manager never appeared in the same room together

[azure bay]

Laura did

inside a cube but still

[vivid bridge]

yeah I'd say thats just a metaphor for her depression

[azure bay]

and also the photo

[vivid bridge]

yeah but I think thats just the devs reusing the chapter image

[azure bay]

Either way, in my book, the amount of evidence of "2 souls are the one" (Seasons, the photo and most importantly the simple looks) makes the probability of that being the case higher then the otherwise.

at face value, the looks should be enough

[vivid bridge]

ehh we'll see

maybe a future game will go into this stuff

[steel imp]

Yo, I was having lunch

[azure bay]

I do hope so

so back to balancing the substance

Rusty Lake Mental Health and Fishing guide from the book about Dale's journey:

• Let the cubes guide you
• Balance the substance of your past lives
• Create the elixir of life and death
• Find enlightenment.
  (and yes, these are clearly instructions, not just buzzwords, Ellesian)

All checks both for Dale and Laura in Seasons. For Dale, it's obvious, because the book is mostly about him.

For Laura it's more interesting. The cubes do guide her, no doubt. She does pretty much the same Dale does in Birthday and even more so. Then the devs said that she made elixir in Seasons. And finally, reverting corruption is considered enlightenment in Samsara Room. The rebirth achievement is called enlightenment.

[steel imp]

Yes

All ok here

[azure bay]

so if such journey is possible inside the cubes, isn't it even cooler to do in the reality if possible?

[vivid bridge]

wait when did the devs said she made the elixir in seasons

[azure bay]

Q&A 2021. "There are different forms of elixir and there was one in Paradise, Paradox and Seasons"

[vivid bridge]

well thats stupid

[azure bay]

the exact quote, documented by dyt's community

[vivid bridge]

well

that's stupid

they can't just say something like that

[azure bay]

well, since they did, we have to deal with that. I'm not a fan of their certain choices either but denying that will lead us nowhere (pun not intended)

[vivid bridge]

hey are you pronounced no-where or now-here

[azure bay]

yes

[vivid bridge]

ah

man, UB can't come out fast enough

[azure bay]

personally for me it's a good thing

I have time to finally finish vids on TPW and make another Deep Dive before UB becomes relevant enough to hype on it

[vivid bridge]

I guess so

I just miss when the games didn't take a year to make

[vivid bridge]

I guess you could argue that the fuel you make in Seasons is a sort of elixir? And that cures her corruption? I don't think thats how the elixir works

[steel imp]

The fuels aren't necessary the elixir

What they produced might be a better bet

[vivid bridge]

well they're the ingredients I guess

[steel imp]

No

You are not getting my point

The elixir isn't always assumed as a beverage

It's not that if you drik a flower, prozac, rotten mushroom and a cactus you ascend to an higher being

I'm hinting more about the mechanism that changed previous cubes

There isn't only the imperfect elixir (aka the dog poo poo one)

Perfectioned elixirs require cubes, the golden one preferibly

However afaik you can't just throw any cube and become a deva

They have to be regulated

In some sense

And that's what the elixir in season is

[azure bay]

it's not imperfect, it's just has lower concentration

[azure bay]

cubes on their own would do nothing

it's their very specific contents that made the GC

[steel imp]

Then this theory makes sense

So I was thinking about something

Between Dale and Laura

I think that Laura is more likely to ascend to deva

Than Dale

[vivid bridge]

It would be a fun twist

but if she did become the ruler of the lake, then how would Seasons even happen

[steel imp]

What do you mean?

[vivid bridge]

Presumably Seasons takes place after everything else has gone down, due to having a 1981 memory somewhere in there

Can't do that if you have a full time job as ruler of the lake

[azure bay]

why?

[steel imp]

First because of Paradox first secret ending

Second because 24355 in Paradox

[azure bay]

while second secret ending is continued in Bday and Theatre

[steel imp]

Yes, true

[steel imp]

But this strikes me as more strange

The number is available in both chapters

[azure bay]

sounds more like a reference as of now

[steel imp]

Reference to?

[azure bay]

The Mill and Case 23

[azure bay]

see no reasons why it shouldn't

[steel imp]

Case 23 ofc, it's from there you get the easter egg

[azure bay]

it's up to Dale to choose

[steel imp]

I don't know how to react when Mr. Crow communicates to you that you can't be saved

[steel imp]

Addressing 1981

In the CE seasons finale

Laura isn't corrupted, actually she's alive and well there

There's no reason of why Laura, as the ruler of the lake, couldn't have as residence her cubes

I actually say more

Mr. Owl usually resides in the same place where he was gifted the elixir

[vivid bridge]

yeah but for most of Seasons, she is corrupted

[steel imp]

That doesn't matter

Remember that I follow the "theory" that when you change the oast in the cubes you are changing the past period

[vivid bridge]

oh

well thats... certainly a theory

[steel imp]

What you see in seasons in non existant to Laura since she changed the past

[vivid bridge]

Yeah I don't know about that one, bro

[steel imp]

It's all a matter of reflection

Listen up

There could be a cube of the future in the past

And a past cube in the future

Now since in TPW modification to the past and the future are linked together

(Modifiy something in the past, changes also in the future)

I'm prone to beliving this

Not only

But a lot of phrases can be pointed to this notion

"The Past is never dead. It's not even past", for example

If you assume that the cube is a bad, contained copy of a past reality

You are implying that the original past is dead

Contradicting this sentenxe

I've finished

[vivid bridge]

Mmmm

[azure bay]

that's just not true

[steel imp]

Explain yoursefl

[vivid bridge]

Yeah I don't know about this, chief

nowhere will make fun of me for this but the whole "The past is never dead" thing is just an edgy quote by some philosopher that they used cause something something time travel. It doesn't mean changing a memory changes the real past. That's such a leap in logic

[steel imp]

Wrong

Actually

You could pass it up

But not the other part

"It's not even past"

This phrase attributes significance to the cubes, almost as they're not an illusion for you to cope

I doubt that there's significance when it comes to changing people memories when they will be wrong

What would be the po8nt for Mr. Owl to make Dale belive his family is qell and alive when that's not true?

You are not facing your demons, you would be illuding yourself

And that's detremental

The point is to learn, not to fool yourself

[vivid bridge]

Dale literally says that the lake is changing his memories, not changing the past

[steel imp]

But Dale didn't knew anything about the cycle

He had barely started

He didn't even knew samsara was a thing

You can't take the word of a disciple

As the one of a teacher

[vivid bridge]

I still think its a leap. The whole point of the cubes is that they're memories and in some cases, they're so distorted that they barely even resemble the original event

Dale's memory of the theatre is basically completely hijacked by Mr. Owl to teach Dale about Samsara and his purpose and whatever

[steel imp]

They are generated for memories, true. But that doesn't mean they are actual memories

[steel imp]

The cube is hijacked, not the memory

[vivid bridge]

The cube contains the memory

[steel imp]

Look at it this way

If Dale's memory would be really changed

How did he knew

[azure bay]

If The Past changes The Future then The Future is impossible. And most of RL seiries as well

[steel imp]

How did he knew that it was changed

[steel imp]

Yeah I realized now that I switched words

[vivid bridge]

He just does. Like he knows its wrong and also he literally just experienced the change

On the contrary, how would he know it changed if the actual past changed according to you

[steel imp]

There's no way of knowing that it's wrong if he couldn't recall the unmodified experiencd

If Ihypotetically change your memory, there's no way of you knowing it

[vivid bridge]

I mean, its a common trope in media where a character can tell that certain memories are fake

[steel imp]

He didn't

He doesn't know he has changed the past

[vivid bridge]

and also he just experienced the change so thats fresh in his memory

[steel imp]

He thinks he has changed his memory

[vivid bridge]

I just think its a leap with no real evidence for it

[steel imp]

Leaving apart TPW

Your point has no real evidence either

There's literally nowhere to be seen that cubes are confirmed memories

Nowhere

(Sorry, I didn't realize what I wrote, no pun intended)

[vivid bridge]

bruh

bruh

[azure bay]

except they are called memories all the times

[vivid bridge]

since, like, the first game

yeah

Cubes are memories, that's like basically the first thing we see in Seasons

[steel imp]

???

[steel imp]

Then where's written

[vivid bridge]

If we know anything for certain, its that cubes are memories

[steel imp]

I can replay seasons right now and find no mention of the cubes being memories

[azure bay]

well not for certain

[steel imp]

As much as these two are related, ofc

[vivid bridge]

literally starting screen

[azure bay]

because TPW turns the table around

[steel imp]

F

[azure bay]

I'd say, most of the cubes originate from memories

[steel imp]

Ok this path was bs. I should have taken in consideration TPW

[vivid bridge]

hmmmmm

[steel imp]

.

Only for seasons though

[azure bay]

@vivid bridge you need to admit that cubes are more than "just memories"

they are at least deep simulations

[vivid bridge]

I can admit that the cubes themselves are connected to the lake dimension

[steel imp]

Extracting the memories isn't simultanious of the creations of the cube. When you play "memory" in the extraction machine, the memories are instantaniously extracted, but you have to piece em up to make a cube

[vivid bridge]

Cubes are memories. Memories are not always cubes

[azure bay]

reading memories from a brain isn't the same as extracting them

[vivid bridge]

Cubes are a physical manifestation of memories

[azure bay]

not only that

you can change them and they will simulate a whole different outcome no matter your knowledge

[vivid bridge]

yes

Like what presumably happens with Laura in Seasons

[azure bay]

Also in TPW

[vivid bridge]

Yes

especially in TPW

[azure bay]

because Albert acted according to his own knowledge Rose didn't have

[vivid bridge]

yeah, Memory PAlbert is still Albert and has all his thoughts and memories

Though we still technically haven't seen a memory-version of a character leave that memory. Both Mr. Rabbit and the Roses technically left the cube, only to bloom in the lake dimension (but I wouldn't really call that leaving). We gotta see how Albert's story continues

[azure bay]

Mr. Rabbit's fate is unknown

[vivid bridge]

The ending of Birthday seems to be outside of the cube and inside the lake, where that Memory David then collapses and fuses with the tree, causing it to bloom

It's very similar to what happens to the Roses

they also leave the cubes, end up in the lake and become a blooming tree

[azure bay]

it doesn't really make sense because the elevator wasn't at the bottom anymore

[vivid bridge]

yeah but the tree is clearly in the lake and not inside the memory

[azure bay]

not sure about that

there was a tree on Dale's drawing

[vivid bridge]

yeah but there's also a tree outside of Laura's house

Lone trees are not unique

[azure bay]

I'd say, that was a reuse

ok, Idk what I'm saying now

[vivid bridge]

Dale's tree isn't even real, its just in the drawing

[azure bay]

but could have a real reference

another thing that doesn't make sense

Rabbit leaving the cube

while he belongs there

[vivid bridge]

Rabbit only left because he was literally shot by a memory altering Dale

So like, regular memory denizens can't leave cause their stories don't require them to leave

[azure bay]

I can't accept memories being limited to cube boundaries. Because that requires a veeeery big stretch to make TPW work

[vivid bridge]

I mean, TPW has special machines to have the cubes be interactable

[azure bay]

the cubes work perfectly fine even outside them

Also Albert's souls often leaves Prose's room

[vivid bridge]

yeah but we haven't really seen someone be able to extract or put in objects

[azure bay]

Owl had to do that for Birthday

[vivid bridge]

well yeah but those were, like, pre-planted I guess

[azure bay]

Don't see why it matters

pre or not pre

[vivid bridge]

the whole doesn't even matter

[azure bay]

you place a foreign object inside

[vivid bridge]

yeah but presumably Owl went inside the memory and placed all the stuff there (or used some machine to put it there) while the cubical device allows for transactions between host and cube without entering the memory

like presumably you can't just poke a match into a cube and it appears in the memory

[azure bay]

there's nothing to indicate things work like that

[vivid bridge]

yeah but why else would you need the cubical device for

the cubical device is all about transfering matter from the cube to outside of it

or the other way around

[azure bay]

ok, fair. But I presume that either Owl can do that using some magic or straight has a CD of his own

[vivid bridge]

Sure

[azure bay]

but still

[vivid bridge]

what were we even talking about

oh yeah

[azure bay]

I was talking about The Future being teared from the reality to be placed inside the golden cube

1. the lab is still there 40 years later

2. Albert lives and he is free

[vivid bridge]

well, the golden cube could just be a memory copy of the future

[azure bay]

Albert lives and he is free

[vivid bridge]

well, that's memory albert who was transferred from the past cube to the future cube and then escaped through the lake. For all we know, there might still be a corrupted "real" Albert, like we see in the new tape from the ARG?

[azure bay]

It's not a corrupted soul that killed Chad

[vivid bridge]

well yeah, that was the new alive "memory" albert

[azure bay]

It's Albert who lives and who's free

it's easier to assume that he was just revived

and the golden cube was just a "portal" into the lab

[vivid bridge]

well, in that case Albert could have just left the lab. But he can't because at that point, the future lab was inside the golden cube, which was technically inside itself and thus he needed to find a way out through the lake

[azure bay]

yes he can, but does he need to leave?

He phrases the lake as the endgoal

[vivid bridge]

well, we never see him "blossom" and also he shows up in the train memories, so he clearly went somewhere else

[azure bay]

Now I think he shows up on Child Lane because he was corrupted even without TPW

[vivid bridge]

that confuses me, too. In Child Lane, he's all black but in the BKM Storage, he's fully human. Maybe he's only shadow-y in Child Lane to make it more mysterious

Because at this point, he wouldn't be corrupted

Unless we're dealing with two Alberts, the "real" corrupted Albert and the "memory" revived Albert. But that's REALLY stretching it and also its less of a theory and more of a prediction. We just gotta wait til the game comes out

[azure bay]

that makes sense because Child Lane takes place before TPW and the events of the Distrib Center after

[vivid bridge]

well, the whole structure of UB confuses me. Presumably the whole subway thing is just a narrative framing device, like an alternative to cubes. But then is the Distrib Center also part of that memory or is it an actual physical place

[azure bay]

it's a memory-station not belonging to the L-Line

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but its still a memory, then

[azure bay]

I wouldn't be so sure about stations being equal to memories though

rather a stage

[vivid bridge]

well, the subway is clearly not a real place but just the framing device around Laura/Harvey/Rose/Whoever's memories/past events

yeah

[azure bay]

It could be just a stage

like in a theatre

an artistic choice to tell the story through metro

that has no meaning for the lore

After all Harvey is an acting figure there

an actor, I'd say

acknowledged by other actors

and, unlike before, it's not even about him

he's more like a witness

[vivid bridge]

is the subway an actual real place that just has, like, actors or whatever or is it like "you can go inside Laura's vhs tape and then you find yourself on a metaphysical train"

[azure bay]

I think it's just a depiction

not sure if it's a depiction of a journey through Laura's cubes

or through her actual life

[vivid bridge]

I guess we'll find out hopefully

My point is that I don't think Albert is originally part of that life story. Instead the game is about the newly revived Albert invading these subway station shaped memories

[azure bay]

My big guess is that the metro is the lake, the stations are cubes in it. With a drill that they are not memories but actual Laura's life. And Harvey participates in it via these cubes.

[vivid bridge]

Still not sure how Asura Harvey fits into this

Like he should be dead/an animal at this point

[azure bay]

Like the episodes of Laura's life are depicted via subway stations, Harvey is depicted as an asura

doesn't mean he really is

just gameplay

[vivid bridge]

well i'm thinking about this from a framing device perspective. Like the game takes place in post-1981 and we're just looking at whats basically a stageplay of Lauras life. If Harvey is the onlooker, he has to exist in post-1981 as an Asura, which he doesn't

[azure bay]

I think it's not a framing device. Harvey is still a part of Laura's story

[vivid bridge]

yeah true

he interacts with Rose

which is extra confusing

[azure bay]

I think for Rose he's a parrot

the only way I see for Harvey to literally look like Asura is some kind of his "true form" accessible only in the lake or smth

[vivid bridge]

its so weird that the player controls harvey

Why is he not part of the "play"

[azure bay]

what's so weird about it?

[vivid bridge]

if we assume that the train is some kind of way to view a persons life, then the player is an unrelated onlooker

The only way I can imagine it making sense if this is not about Laura's life but about Harvey's life with Laura

[azure bay]

Well, the former is not the case

[azure bay]

that is, I think

Harvey's impact on Laura's life, I'd say

[vivid bridge]

yeah but thats impossible if Asura Harvey died before Laura's birth

[azure bay]

I repeat, just like Laura's life only looks like the L-line, Harvey only looks like an asura

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but clearly the event thats being replayed here is "Rose meets Asura Harvey and asks him to take care of Laura"

[azure bay]

It's like a costume for a play

[azure bay]

I always saw that as Rose asking the birb to protect Laura from paranormal threats

Which Harvey is more or less capable of

[vivid bridge]

Maybe there was a different person present and Harvey (as the onlooker) is only viewing himself from the perspective of that person

I can't imagine Rose talking to a tiny bird like that

also again, Harvey is supposed to be an animal at this point. He couldn't really have a conversation with Rose

[azure bay]

I think you just underestimate him

that's the only parrot that could defeat a corrupted soul

and among non-parrots there are also not many people who can say so about themselves

[vivid bridge]

Its moments like that where i'm not even sure if the devs remember that harvey is basically dead and is just an animal now

[azure bay]

I think they have to. The White Door is a relatively recent game

and UB has clear connections to it

[vivid bridge]

was harvey in TWD?

Its been so long

[azure bay]

as several easter eggs

[vivid bridge]

like bird harvey or asura harvey?

[azure bay]

bird

[vivid bridge]

ah

hmm

yeah who knows

How is Asura Harvey in TPW

[azure bay]

in the mirror it's rather a teaser

[vivid bridge]

the thing is

actually gotta go afk for a bit

be back later

[azure bay]

however his appearance under the tree could be somewhat canon

the blossom clearly connects UB to TPW

that's why I think the metro could be somehow the lake

and since the lake is a form nirvana, maybe Harvey can appear in his prime form there

but again, any part of it could be figurative

[vivid bridge]

I mean, Laura has always been associated with the pink blossoms

[azure bay]

it's not ony pink

it's also white

on the game cover

and randomly in the menu

for me it's pink too but for some it's white

[vivid bridge]

Yeah its random

Also afk again

okay back

I hope the train is like some kind of in-universe thing and not just a story device

[azure bay]

why?

[vivid bridge]

I mean, the cubes are a story device but they have an actual story

I want the train to have a reason to exist

not just "the devs wanted to tell Lauras story and chose a train as the aesthetic"

[ebon aspen]

Its prolly like dale's elevator

[vivid bridge]

yeah

[azure bay]

I'm afraid it's nearly impossible already

Laura's life is set in stone outside metro

The Lake trip, her death

her journey of Seasons

[vivid bridge]

yeah but I want there to be a framing narrative

like "BKM build this weird train that can go through memory tapes"

Can you believe it? I'm actually hoping for BKM to be relevant

That's what I call "character development"

[azure bay]

so am I but I'm not that desperate to stretch them into making Harvey board such train

[vivid bridge]

the way its worded is so weird

"one of Laura's timelines"

"escape the corruption of her mind" we've already done this in the first game

[azure bay]

and who did help us?

Harvey

[vivid bridge]

I mean

technically

I hope the game is from the perspective of the weird psychedelic mushroom we grow

He helped, too

the whole "find the correct metro and uncover one of Laura's timelines" makes it sound like a branching story but I kinda doubt that thats what it is

[azure bay]

for me it seems very simple and even fits my new pov onto the cubes

Harvey in his usual time travel manner travels through Laura's cubes floating around the lake in blossom to help her succeed in Seasons

[vivid bridge]

I don't know. Laura doesn't really receive any outside help during Seasons

[azure bay]

and another thing I expect is us bringing her a flower

[vivid bridge]

I just hope this game doesn't complicate Seasons any further

oh also, going back to the topic of what the cubical device does

it makes the memory run without an active person inside it

Like usually Rose would have to go inside the memory to play it but the cubical device lets PRose act on her own

[azure bay]

not really because PRose acts on her own both before the connection is established and and after the cube was taken out to power the resurrection tank

and so is FRose inside the GC

FRose is active to press the up/down button

and PAlbert tells Rose to give the future-him the black cube

then FAlbert tells both Roses to touch their cubes

so the cubes are in sync pretty much all the time

[vivid bridge]

yeah but usually the memories don't play until a person enters them

[azure bay]

I can step away from the moment before the 1st connection was established but after that it was just going and going on

[vivid bridge]

also remind me again, how is there still a CS-Albert in The Past Chapter 2 if he was transferred to the future

[azure bay]

I think he just wasn't

We've seen that Rose captured him long before TPW

[vivid bridge]

But in The Future Chapter 2, you extract him from the black cube

[azure bay]

Now I think he was always there, just invisible for human eyes unless the tank was powered. Because for real, inserting the cube is called powering up the tank in the todo list

[vivid bridge]

so you're saying it might just be uploading the data from the past albert into the future albert or something like that?

[azure bay]

maybe but I'm not saying that

I thought about something like that before the ARG

but now I don't see it too necessary

the cube could be just a power source like in The Cave

but I have to admit, the sequence of codes and images the cube shows when Albert's body is ready looks sus

[vivid bridge]

its just so strange

hmm

rewatching the end of chapter 1

yeah I guess they only transfer blood, bone and flesh

they don't actually transport the soul

[steel imp]

If cubes are actual separate realities and not just memories the concept of timelines has a place in rusty lake

[steel imp]

If another timeline exist, the wording here is literal

You have to do what you did in season in another cube, by another perspective

[azure bay]

I think for now it's useless debating with him about that

at least before UB comes out

[vivid bridge]

[azure bay]

we won't say anything he never heard

[vivid bridge]

okay also

guess who just played through The Future Chapter 1

[steel imp]

Wait

I thought you played fully UB

[vivid bridge]

you mean TPW?

[azure bay]

it's not out yet

[steel imp]

Yeah

Messed up my words

[vivid bridge]

so yeah, nowhere, Future Rose always had Albert's ghost in her thingie

[azure bay]

not really

because at that point it looks unstable

phases in and out

[vivid bridge]

it was there in the beginning, too

this isn't that much earlier but it was there

[azure bay]

dude, both screenshots come from the ch1 climax

[vivid bridge]

urgh fine

[azure bay]

the voltage spike program

power surge program*

which starts with confirming that the CS was summoned in the past

and it was really unstable

which confused me a lot

now not so much

but still assuming that Albert was corrupted behind the scenes in The Future world was wild

[vivid bridge]

I'm guessing its there from the beginning but you only see it at the end when it shows up in the past for storytelling reasons

[azure bay]

yes, now we have more reasons to think that way

but objectively the butterfly effect seemed like a natural in-lore solution at face value

[frosty wolf]

Cube Escape: Arles? (just saying)

[steel imp]

True

It happens slightly before Rusty Lake Hotel but after Rusty Lake Paradise

At least, that's the year the cube unfolds

[azure bay]

The only expected game that will predate Paradise is 20k BC

[steel imp]

?

[azure bay]

MAMMOTH LIIIIVES!!!!!

[steel imp]

Oh no

[frosty wolf]

First off, as you pointed out, the animal theme. Yes, that is what you think is the only thing the Eilanders and the hotel guests have in common, right? "Everything else doesn't add up. The character traits, the ages, their jobs, etc"
There seems to be quite a few references in Paradise hinting at the similarities between the Eilanders and the hotel guests. This is why I think the Eilanders and the hotel guests are the same (even though there is no literal confirmation we see):

I'm going to start this based off your own words, sire.

"The character traits"
Nicholas Eilander (in Paradise): He is the only character in Paradise to be seen drinking from a glass.
Mr. Deer (in Hotel): He wants a Bloody Mary.

At least for me, I get strong David Eilander vibes from Mr. Rabbit.

"The ages"
There is only one explanation... it's been a while since Paradise, right? Also how will we ever tell, since the games don't reveal their ages?

"Their jobs"
Well, I don't think any of the Eilanders in Paradise seem to have any occupation (except accomplishing their family roles) so you can't really have this argument but I suppose...
The only job I think feel similar to any of the Eilanders the hotel guests have is Mr. Rabbits'. He does magic! And David in the frog plague, is really weird with the frogs coming out of his mouth, dropping in his pants, resulting in it coming out of his mouth again, and so on. Also when he was being shot at by Gerard in one of the plagues (i forgor💀), he never bled. But it could have just been that the arrow was a bit too blunt.

Oh I don't just believe that to make RL: Hotel feel like a revenge story, I believe so because they all just seem so strikingly similar (excluding the jobs and ages).

(also everybody above me were like)

[vivid bridge]

Actually, the devs gave us the guest's ages during Hotel's launch phase. They had like a little profile article for each guest

[frosty wolf]

[azure bay]

which is weird even concidering Roots

[vivid bridge]

If the Eilanders are the guests, why would Mr. Owl call Mr. Boar "Mr. Ambassador" who he knows through a mutual friend? If that's his uncle, I mean

these things just don't add up

[frosty wolf]

I dont think Mr. Owl wants the guests to know who he is

[vivid bridge]

My guess is that the animals are just some iconography associated with the lake, like some prophecy maybe and thats why the same animals keep showing up around it

[frosty wolf]

prophecy of what?

[vivid bridge]

well i'm just guessing. They're a weird cult that are awaiting some prophesized day. Having some animals associated makes sense

[azure bay]

I think the biggest stretch of those who deny guests-Eilanders is introducing the whole bunch of asuras we've never seen while we already have some good candidates

[vivid bridge]

I'm just saying them sharing the same iconography doesn't make them the same

Dale is deer themed but nobody is arguing that he is Nicholas

[frosty wolf]

the great day of the lake seems to be the sacrifice of Jakob since the lake wants sacrifices right? And also around the last few plagues the Eilanders kept talking about it since it was the tenth plague that was soon approaching i suppose

[vivid bridge]

Maybe Paradise just sucks

its like the fnaf 4 of rusty lake

[frosty wolf]

😮

how can you say that to a rusty lake game???????

[vivid bridge]

[frosty wolf]

[vivid bridge]

Nahhh

Paradise is okay

[frosty wolf]

[vivid bridge]

its definitely my least favorite of the original 3 premium games

[covert wyvern]

Don't gotta like everything a developer does, that's allowed, lol

[frosty wolf]

yeah i know

i was just joking

[vivid bridge]

I like Paradise, I just don't like it as much as Roots or even Hotel

[frosty wolf]

kind of the same with me, too

[vivid bridge]

I really dislike the Eilanders, most of the puzzles are ehhh and the whole eilanders guests thing has just been a headache for me

Atmosphere is really good, though

[frosty wolf]

i think the puzzles were just really re-used

[vivid bridge]

the music is very twin peaks-y

[azure bay]

why do you think Hotel is better tho?

[frosty wolf]

i really loved the soundtrack

[vivid bridge]

Hotel sets out to be cube escape but bigger. It succeeds in that. Paradise tries to be this epic family story and I think it kinda fails at that

[frosty wolf]

the family is so unaccomadating to Jakob 😭

[vivid bridge]

they suck

genuinly terrible people

except maybe Elizabeth but she barely does anything

[azure bay]

Margaret was pretty supportive

[vivid bridge]

I guess the women are all okay

[frosty wolf]

👀

[vivid bridge]

Despite everything, i'd like a new game to kinda be like Paradise

give us a whole new cast of characters

Paradise really was the last time we got a whole new cast

[frosty wolf]

wonder how they'd contribute to Rusty Lake tho

[vivid bridge]

Paradox is just the cube escape cast, White Door is just Bob (+Sarah I guess), Samsara is William, TPW is Rose and Albert and UB is Laura and her family

It's been so long since a whole new cast of characters

Maybe the mammoth game will give us a new cast

[azure bay]

I don't expect that from UB, only strangers we'll never see again

[vivid bridge]

yeah like I said, UB is just Laura and her family (rose, albert, harvey)

[azure bay]

Bob

[vivid bridge]

oh yeah

forgot about bob

actually i'm kinda excited to see bob again

we've been getting one game a year lately, right? So if next year is Mammoth, then 2025 would already be the 10th anniversary

Maybe they can finally finish Dale's story

[frosty wolf]

i wonder if theyll make a game with Dale in the Hotel, it'd be interesting

[azure bay]

they will eventually

[vivid bridge]

That's what i've been waiting for since 2015

[azure bay]

there will be some Rusty Lake Escape whatever it is

also some Second Maze game

probably Case 23-related

[vivid bridge]

I just think it shouldn't take over 10 years for Dale to reach the hotel, you know

I've become a much, much worse person since then and I don't know if I can take another 10 years

[azure bay]

for some reason...

it seems that RL Escape could the the one

like Cube Escape but not quite

[frosty wolf]

its sounds a bit odd though..like escape from Rusty Lake?

cube escape sounds fine as well as rusty lake, but...

[azure bay]

I'm speaking of confirmed stuff

[frosty wolf]

ah

[vivid bridge]

Dale realises he doesn't actually want to become a funky animal person so he runs away while Crow and Owl chase him

Would unironically be kino

[azure bay]

I wouldn't really like that turn

[vivid bridge]

I mean, definitely

but also I always criticize RL characters for having no thoughts of their own so having a character actually having to escape from rusty lake while being chased or something actually sounds really cool

[frosty wolf]

what if Dale goes beyond the mountains on a fantastic journey to find a magical country? 🙃

[vivid bridge]

I'm still not even sure if Rusty Lake Escape is even a game or if its just a general advertisement for Rusty Lake and the Cube Escape games

[azure bay]

it's on the roadmap, it has to be a game

[vivid bridge]

can you show me the roadmap?

or do you just mean that big city image?

[azure bay]

I do

[vivid bridge]

ah

[azure bay]

they called it a roadmap

[vivid bridge]

yeah but again, that might just be a general cube escape advertisment

I just think it'd be a weird way to announce it. At least with the mammoth, we already knew it was coming. I find it unlikely that they'd just suddenly reveal a game like this, just straight up with its title and that title being "Rusty Lake Escape"

That's so unlike them

[azure bay]

it's a roadmap, it looks like a game title, I buy it

that's it

[vivid bridge]

yeah but so is The White Door

is that a new game on the roadmap?

[azure bay]

there were not only the upcoming events but also those that passed

but specifically here they were implying that the Second Maze will get a new game they were taling about

probably

it was a Second Maze building

with The White Door and the windows crossed by the police

around that time there was a post on the SM discord about greeting a new employee

there they said something about a new RL-related game

and the post was Case 23-themed

I personally see a pattern here

[vivid bridge]

we'll have to see

[frosty wolf]

@pulsar kernel can you explain to me
"It was the team setting up the lore of the horrors and the neat little process that would allow one of the shadow creatures (corrupted souls.) to chest (cheat?) the Samara (Samsara.) Circle (wheel/cycle)."?

imma be afk for a while ya

[pulsar kernel]

XD what I was saying was that thanks to William and his brothers meddling, they have created a way for corrupted souls to find a loophole out of the natural cycle (Samsura) and are now running amok, either for good or for evil. I meant cheat, but my autocorrection messes stuff up.

But, there are certain souls either returning to a more physical form or trying to make the natural cycle correct again

I know it seems like two separate things, but it’s more so the two supernatural themes

Hopefully I explained it better?

[steel imp]

Treason

Blasphemy

Rusty Lake Paradise is the paradise of Rusty Lake

It's perfectly balanced in lore, characters and giant locusts

[steel imp]

What do you intend by natural cycle?

[azure bay]

Personally I was disappointed by Paradise after Roots too. It seemed shorter in comparison and the family was less highlighted (but I never really hated them. Only David failed to grow on me). However it still had its great moments like Flies, Boils, Locusts and yes, Darkness.

And later on, as I was understanding more and more, I started appreciating it for its lore.

[steel imp]

I prefer Roots actually

But RL Paradise is still a great game

You also have to consider that I've played paradise as my first RL game (not Cube Escape, literally the first "Rusty Lake" game)

[azure bay]

There are some things I fail to understand about Paradise though

1. When did Caroline actually die?
2. Why did the family try to sacrifice Jakob twice but didn't sacrifice, let's say, Nicolas or some hypothetical brother of Margaret decades before?

[steel imp]

1. do you mean the date?
2. Because of the prophecy. The prophecy, to my understanding, says that the death of the firstborn will enlighten the family. The first tjme they tried to sacrifice Jacob, but since he boated his way out of his duty, the family took Caroline as a replacement. What could go wrong? But then, well, then the water turned into blood and they had a lot of time to regret that decision, so they didn't try that again ever until Jacob came back, solving plague after plague, and then getting ultimately sacrificed

[azure bay]

1. I mean after Jakob departed or before he returned?

2. Yes, they needed a firstborn but he's not the 1st firtsborn in the family. Nicolas is likely one too and Margaret would have had some firstborn in her generation.

3. And no, Caroline's death has nothing to do with plagues directly. They were well-known even before she died and likely they accompany every Day of The Lake (according to the prophecy)

[steel imp]

2. What?

The firstborn of Caroline, the firstborn of the Eilanders

[vivid bridge]

1. Caroline only died shortly before Jakob returned (her death was the reason for his return)

[steel imp]

It's impossible

If the sacrifice wasn't imminent, Jacob could have stayed in the island a lot more

Caroline was sacrificed shortly after Jacob departed

[vivid bridge]

I don't think we know if the plagues are a reoccuring problem. I think when Jakob was a child, they just wanted to sacrifice him for enlightenmend, not to stop any plague. So I guess there was no real time limit

[azure bay]

The prophecy said nothing about the firstborn of Caroline. Every couple of parents have their firtstborn. So why didn't Margaret sacrifice one earlier?

[steel imp]

I don't understand how do you know the plagues where reccurring even before the sacrifice of Caroline

[vivid bridge]

yeah, caroline's death is what triggered the plagues and returning her memories to the lake is what stops it

[steel imp]

About the need to do it in a specific moment and not a generation ago

The prophecy might have been discovered after lots of reaserch

[azure bay]

They have to.

1. They are depicted on the well.
2. The cult book gives info how to fight them.
3. David knows them well enough to play favorites.
4. The 9th plague is said to happen before the Day of the Lake.
5. The 10th plague is performed by the cultists themselves.

[steel imp]

Because the family might have known all this stuff beforehand

They just didn't know what would have triggered them

[azure bay]

I repeat

9 and 10 are directly connected to their ritual

So the rest have to as well

[steel imp]

1. they might be fruit of research
2. it might be fruit of research
3. it might just have read the book a lot. Toddlers have their favourite dinosaurs too
4. it might not be directly the 9th
5. it might not be directly the 10th

[vivid bridge]

I repeat

Maybe Paradise just sucks

[steel imp]

I give you thay the "9th" plague existed previously

[steel imp]

Don't be silly

[steel imp]

Like the "10th"

[azure bay]

If you can't constructively contribute, please just stay away

[vivid bridge]

[steel imp]

But the cult book doesn't provide numbers

It just provides the plagues

So, the 9th might occur as the 1st

Abd the 10th might occour as the 2nd

[azure bay]

Considering The Chapel, the bible is at least partially canon

So the plagues likely did happen before and in that specific order

[steel imp]

Nonsense

Just because the bible exists

[azure bay]

In Egypt

[steel imp]

Doesn't mean it really happened

[azure bay]

Not because of that

[steel imp]

I've read the bible

The correlation between egypt and paradise is purely artistic

[azure bay]

The devs said that the chapel highlights some of RL history

[steel imp]

Like Caroline Eilander?

Maybe?

[azure bay]

Yes but also they were referring to biblical stories adapted to feature cubes next to her

[steel imp]

There was only one biblical story

[azure bay]

But even without that

[steel imp]

If I remember correctly

The one being the birth of Jesus (maybe?)

[azure bay]

The second one is Jesus related too

The infant massacre he evades

[steel imp]

What?

Is there proof of that being the infant massacre?

I'm sure it's a real painting, no doubt

But I can't figure out who did it

It gives me Raffaello vibes, though

[azure bay]

You can check out the wiki

[steel imp]

Ok fine

I claim that only the New Testament is canon in RL

[azure bay]

It depicts the massacre ordered by king Herod

[vivid bridge]

to be fair, in the context of rusty lake, those paintings have their own unique meaning. Like how the painting with Salome is retconned to be Caroline

[steel imp]

Would that be the case, the plagues of Egypt have happened only in Paradise

[steel imp]

Yes, but

[steel imp]

.

Following along

[steel imp]

This is my conclusion

[azure bay]

The problem is, there's no other context given to those very specific events

[vivid bridge]

I mean, its clearly a retcon. So they might retcon the other paintings in future games

Though none of this has any bearing on whether or not the bible is canon

[steel imp]

Yes, but only one painting

If you want to follow this way

[azure bay]

Still, even without Egypt the plagues are an established meme in our culture for the devs to separate them or alter their order even behind the scenes.

[steel imp]

You have to connect also the birth of Jesus to it

The concept of the firstborn is irrelevant, cuz Jesus didn't have brothers of sisters

[azure bay]

It's not clearly. It was always the lady of the lake. The only thing retconned, she could get a designated character

[azure bay]

I'm not connecting Jakob to Jesus

[steel imp]

Ofc

I'm saying to @vivid bridge

[vivid bridge]

thats what they want you to believe

[vivid bridge]

okay yeah true

[steel imp]

What in the fuck is this apochristical monstrosity

[vivid bridge]

but then the lady of the lake was retconned to be Caroline

[steel imp]

Camilla deez nuts, I say

[vivid bridge]

its an episode of Lupin the Third

[azure bay]

Ok, I insist that if there are testimonies of some plagues happenning behind the scenes they had to take place together in the established order.

Every time they want to kill a firstborn.

[steel imp]

Stop being silly

[steel imp]

Impossible

How do they trigger them, then?

[azure bay]

Lack of cube offerings, for example

Or something related to astrology from The Darkness

[steel imp]

A lack of cube offerinfs

Would cause problems on a multiversal scale

You said that time doesn't flow in the lake

So there's future Mr. Owl feeding those memory

[azure bay]

Owl said that the lake needs fresh memories

[steel imp]

And he is providing

He is the only one, but still

The only way thia could have happened

Is for the Eilander to contact future Mr. Owl and tell him to stop

[azure bay]

I think you are overthinking

[steel imp]

And I think that fresh is a useless adhective to use

Mr. Owl probably uses that for colloquial reasons

Another way of saying "get to work quick"

But freshness is irrelevant in a timeless dimension

I could throw a banana there and it will last for millennia

[azure bay]

My logic is, if the lake needs memories and memories stop the plagues, then lackthereof should cause them

[vivid bridge]

but the lake doesn't work that way. In that case, the corrupted souls wouldn't be a problem since it would already be fixed in the future

[steel imp]

Corrupted souls are timeless

When they go into the lake

They are unaffected by the past, the present, of the future

That's why the guests are so difficult to stop

[vivid bridge]

but clearly they are

cause they weren't there in the past

[steel imp]

It's hard to catch em out of the lake

[vivid bridge]

and they're gonna get defeated in the future

thats classic linear time for ya

[azure bay]

We don't really know. The concept of lake multiverse is very new.

[steel imp]

But if you sustain that you have to apply common multiversal mechanics

Since indeed

We don't really know other ways

[steel imp]

You don't understand. Think about paradox

I'm convinced that's the paradox forest is a 100% realistic way to reppresent the real forest

There are 4 dales

[azure bay]

Evidence is everything that matters. Everything else declines into fanfiction

[vivid bridge]

the paradox machine is a special case cause it all takes place in Dale's mind in a single instant

not comparable to the actual lake

[steel imp]

Even if Dale stays uncorrupted in the future, it's corrupted form will be still present in the laks

[steel imp]

Not when explanation is needed. The Lake is timeless, it's sustained. If you don't apply a plausible framework to it it's irrelevant to consider the lake timeless

Because you don't know how to work with that

[azure bay]

I'm convinced it's not. Because it has traces of civilisation and it's literally located on the lake's shore.

If there's anything multiversal, it's the CS because it's the one who sees all Dales and all Dales see it

[steel imp]

But that is done by VanderDeer too

And since you don't have confirmation that is a deva

By your logic

Then that would work with Asuras too

So Mr. Crow is multiversal?

[vivid bridge]

again, you're implying that the actual lake functions the same way as the paradox forest

[steel imp]

No

I'm implyong that the paradox forest works as the real forest

Actually

[azure bay]

Dale teased to become a Deva is a confirmation enough.
Either that, or it's just Dale wearing a deer head he found in the forest

[steel imp]

Dale was teased in equal measure to die in favour of Laura

That's 50/50

[vivid bridge]

maybe VanderDeer is from a timeline where he drank the regular elixir and became a asura or something

[azure bay]

And never about asura

[steel imp]

.

[azure bay]

A leap too long I'm not taking

[vivid bridge]

Sure

[steel imp]

I need you to explain what half-Dale is then

[azure bay]

I told you.

Either a deva because Dale is said to become one (and also because of the book)

Or just a human sinse the deer head was established to lie around the forest

[steel imp]

Half Dale

Not VanderDeer

The one that's half a CS and half a human

[azure bay]

Sorry. I suppose it's meant to represent his semi-corrupted state later on in The Cave and on the journey

At least I see a pattern

Between Dale flickering, the notion of "embracing one's corrupted soul" and that abomination

Back to the lake

I think its timeliness is mostly limited to not aging

Maybe the cubes too

[vivid bridge]

yeah

[steel imp]

If you assume that

[vivid bridge]

but events still play out in a linear fashion

[steel imp]

You can't assume that also for the cubes

Because then the fresheness of a memory

Would have sense

Implying that cubes decay

And as such

They age

[vivid bridge]

well, not really

the lake can still want more

[steel imp]

The Lake is not sentient

[azure bay]

The devs said that "the lake needs the cubes and the cubes need the lake to be preserved"

[steel imp]

There's no evidence about that

[azure bay]

And they also said it is

[steel imp]

What?

Where?

[azure bay]

That very same Q&A only the chinese figured out to document

[steel imp]

Where can I find this

[azure bay]

I can share a pdf they created

[steel imp]

Ok

[azure bay]

But only several pages are useful for us

[steel imp]

Uhm

Can I just get a grasp

[azure bay]

I need to boot my pc

[steel imp]

On how the sentienteness of the lake got out

To what question?

[azure bay]

@steel imp page 48

[steel imp]

Wow

It's

Huge

[azure bay]

and mostly illegible 😭

[vivid bridge]

rip those two

legit the only reason Rose is still alive is because she has a womb

very progressive, you guys

[azure bay]

however, based on what I've heard, the theories presented there are not very great

like Owl abusing Crow in Case 23 and Crow secretly planning his revenge

[vivid bridge]

I think it'd be cool if Crow tried taking the full elixir for himself. Would add some conflict to the final game

[azure bay]

I don't think there's enough evidence to declare them dead.

[azure bay]

just in case, Caroline's elixir was full, William's elixir was full and only the shitty extract wasn't

[vivid bridge]

yeah but you know what I mean

the deva elixir

[azure bay]

I think it's not about the elixir but the state of mind while consuming it. Thus the epic journey for Dale

I think it's useless for Crow in that sense (but more usefull than the extract)

[vivid bridge]

I'd just like to see something happen, you know. I don't just want the game to be "Dale reaches the hotel, somehow uses the golden cube and then he or laura becomes a deva" I want there to be some kind of conflict

I want there to be a story

[azure bay]

I see

[vivid bridge]

stories need conflict

I doubt that they're gonna go in that direction though

Maybe its like a sequel to Hotel where Dale has to go through the Hotel, which is now haunted by the corrupted souls

I could imagine that

[azure bay]

I like this one

and now I remember that there's a room 6 key in the UB crate

[vivid bridge]

what crate?

[azure bay]

The Story Continues crate

[vivid bridge]

oh

yeah

[azure bay]

I wonder how it will be used in the metro

would be kinda stupid if that was Owl's office

but interesting

[vivid bridge]

actually

wait let me

okay so in the parcel, there are 5 things. A picture of Young Laura, the cube metro paper, a broken clock, the golden cube paper and the room key. I think these represent different games. So Laura, the broken clock and the cube metro thing are clearly UB, while The Golden Cube could be the name of that final game (which connects it to the hotel room). You know, golden cubes, hotel rooms, etc

thats all dale endgame stuff

[azure bay]

No, I think everything is UB-related.
The photo, the ticket. Also the timepiece. I think if you look closely you'll be able to see in the demo the places where it cracks (based on shard shadows overlaping)

The key isn't a big stretch, since Laura visits the lake and likely the hotel itself.

And the calling card... We know nothing about it.

[vivid bridge]

yeah but the golden cube is very much a dale-related thing

thats actually a really good question, though

Where will UB stop?

[azure bay]

It's Laura's memories that were used to create it

[vivid bridge]

yeah but Dale is the person carrying it

the question is, will UB stop at her death or at the end of Seasons? If its the latter, then they'd have to show what happens at the Hotel with Dale and Laura and I feel like the game won't get into that itself

[azure bay]

"the past and the potential future"

Plus blossom and Harvey

Sonds like Winter 1981

[vivid bridge]

"potential future" is so vague. The game could end with aliens showing up and kidnapping her. Yeah, that's a potential future. What does that even mean

[azure bay]

That there're multiple?

[vivid bridge]

yeah I get that part

but like

whats the point

I want to see her definitive end, not some what-if scenario

[azure bay]

For me the point would be showing that there's place both for Laura and Dale

Seasons are already her ending, it seems

[vivid bridge]

yeah but we're missing that crucial point between her in paradox and her in seasons, which is her at the hotel with Dale

is UB just gonna skip that moment?

Is UB gonna go in its own what-if scenario thats completely unrelated?

Who knows

[azure bay]

Honestly, I'm afraid, the 1972 part of Laura's story will be revealed with Dale's ending

It's more or less clear, it seems. She gets nothing and has to take the matter in her own hands

And it's already not what if

At least for her

It may be for Harvey if he doesn't help her

You know what? What really seems like what if is Dale saving Laura

[vivid bridge]

you mean like this is the scenario where Laura becomes the deva?

[azure bay]

Maybe not the deva

The elixir ritual envolving a CS still feels weird

And thus unpredictable

Maybe she'd become a human bacause that's what enlightenment is for CS

Maybe she'll switch places with Dale, maybe even retroactively.

But the result is still unclear

She may just become an asura since Dale's journey was prepared for him specufically

[vivid bridge]

The way I saw the ending of the cave and the subsequent games is that both Laura and Dale are half-corrupted. Like Dale is flashing black sometimes and I figure that the same is true for Laura

So I think they both have an equal chance of becoming the deva

so if in the main timeline Dale becomes the deva, maybe UB will show an alternate timeline where Laura becomes the deva?

idk

[azure bay]

In order to become Deva she'd have to have her own Bday and Theatre. Not sure if Owl would have time to prepare them

He doesn't even seem to consider her alternative

[vivid bridge]

Well we only see the story from Dale's perspective. Laura might have had her own memory adventures

[azure bay]

Something tells me all she had was haunting Dale and standing in the middle of the lake

Would be cool to be wrong tho

[steel imp]

I've rose once again

[steel imp]

Indeed, the lake is sentient

I claim that The Lake has good scientific reasons to absorb the cubes

And not just golosity

So if the lake is timeless in the sense of not aging

Then the cubes get some kind if alteration after a determinate period of time

And as such, are subjected to aging

[azure bay]

I wouldn't think of it that much until we get something substantial

fow now I just say that the lake needs the cubes

and the cubes stop the plagues

[steel imp]

No

Listem

I mean

Yes, let's let apart the concept of multiverse

And other as of now nonsense

The Lake has been suffering since Caroline death

If that suffering isn't connected to the plagues

What is?

[azure bay]

Paradise did

Paradise was suffering since Caroline's death

[steel imp]

Yes

Messed up my wirds once again

[azure bay]

but unfortunately, correlation doesn't mean causation

because here, If you are to sacrifice the 1stborn during the day of the lake, you have to wait until Darkness

and likely before Darkness come the rest

[steel imp]

I disagree with this part. I think that a lack of cubes causes the 9th and the 10th plague, and fullfilling this last one causes the 1st to the 8th plague

[azure bay]

no, plagues being treated differently is very unlikely

they are all parts of the same cultural concept

they are all depicted on the well

[steel imp]

What do you mean

Treated diffrently?

[azure bay]

1st and foremost by IRL authors

I feel like making 8 plagues work in one way and the rest in a different one isn't the way to go

they are not individual concepts

they are 1

[steel imp]

You can't take in consideration other franchises and asssociate them with Rusty Lake

[azure bay]

I'm not speaking of franchises

I'm speaking of writing as a whole

[steel imp]

You can't take our culture in consideration and associate it with Rusty Lake

Then

[azure bay]

Rusty Lake is a part of our culture. It wouldn't exist without it.

[steel imp]

What?

[azure bay]

the books always speak of other books

[steel imp]

But a franchise isn't obbligate to follow references

[azure bay]

but it's more likely to then not

and if it doesn't it has to make it deliberate

[steel imp]

At the cost of lore holes

[azure bay]

what lore holes?

[steel imp]

The entire conversation started about this

You have confusion about this

[azure bay]

how the heck do reoccurring plagues break the lore?

[vivid bridge]

I think the plagues aren't necessarily caused by supernatural forces. Darkness is literally just nightfall, Boils and Flies are direct consequences of the previous plagues and Death of the Firstborn is just Nicholas' plan to achieve enlightenment

[steel imp]

First, they eliminate the need for Jacob

[vivid bridge]

So the plagues are more of a prophecy

[azure bay]

"The sun will turn into darkness and the moon into blood before the day of the lake" it is supernatural

[vivid bridge]

well thats just a blood moon

[steel imp]

Second, they would make THE Day of the lake A day of the lake

[azure bay]

the sun doesn't suddenly turn into darkness

[vivid bridge]

solar eclipse then or something