🤔｜theories

[floral mauve]

alright

[azure bay]

you can live inside them, die, be reborn as something else

and so can everyone around you

so what's the difference between memories and the reality?

especially since in TPW even the future was revealed to be a cube floating around the lake with Albert and Laura trapped inside it

that's the multiverse

a series of cubes inside other cubes

[floral mauve]

it would be confusing first to deal with which timeline is which first

so lets recap, CE is golden cube Dale one except the first 3 Laura game triple threats

[azure bay]

the wording seems off

[floral mauve]

wha

or how about

you summerise for me

about 2 or 3 timelines we have

[azure bay]

what is golden cube Dale one?

[floral mauve]

the one Laura still CS

[azure bay]

ok, understtod

yep we have Dale's ascension

[floral mauve]

thats what I meant yes

[azure bay]

we have Laura's survival

these 2 are the most significant imo

[floral mauve]

well apparently there are different types of Laura survival

if tpw happens, Laura wont even exist

[azure bay]

I spoke of the most significant timelines

the MOST significant one we consider normal is about Dale's ascension

Laura's survival is important only because we've been working hard to create it and we care about Laura

[ashen widget]

Почему я не вижу ваших сообщений

[azure bay]

but we don't really care about The Past left behind by Rose, we don't care about Dale's parents

[ashen widget]

И своих тоже

[covert wyvern]

Please keep it English in the main chats.

[floral mauve]

rip

also

||someone said Dale's mom look like the poster actress||

[azure bay]

someone said the cashier looks like Crow's wife

[floral mauve]

yea

[azure bay]

Normally I just ignore these assertions

[floral mauve]

aw why

[azure bay]

they are baseless

the likeness is questionable

the characters are too irrelevant to get a cameo

[floral mauve]

at least somehow ppl developed the possibility of Dale's mom is lady in blue in theatre since she is indeed in blue xd and if she is an actress, more relevant I guess

[azure bay]

and completely forget about Ms. Pheasant 🤣

[floral mauve]

yeaaa

[azure bay]

@vivid bridge before you are back. This multiverse of cubes inside other cubes has travel limitations. Normally you can't go sideways to "the Earth but everybody is a squid", you can only go back into a memory, a checkpoint of sorts, and branch out from there. And you need to put an effort proportional to changes you wish.

[floral mauve]

I got a funny weird theory

We got future 1984 Rose and past Rose in tpw

lets say those two are from 2 timelines

otherwise its gonna be a real paradox

[azure bay]

(I know a possible solution but still, it will destroy CE series)

[floral mauve]

||UB could be about future Rose journey and how she has to abandon Rose due to the fact that she extracted the past Rose and Albert CS in one timeline to resurrect future Albert, then, the past Albert CS decided to chase Future Rose before she does that cuz it would mean that past Albert CS suffer unstop.||idk wtf did I write

[azure bay]

The Future Rose is expected to be old

[floral mauve]

she is becoming old isnt she

as time moves on

eventually she would be there

[delicate atlas]

These are some confusing theories

[azure bay]

feel free to ask questions

[delicate atlas]

I'll wait until UB is fully released and understood

[azure bay]

but she didn't do anything with her past-self until becoming old

[delicate atlas]

So we can have conclusive answers

I still didn't play all sides of tpw and the achievements

[covert wyvern]

Rusty Lake and conclusive answers?

[delicate atlas]

So I assume I'm missing some stuff

[delicate atlas]

Good point 💀

[azure bay]

but it seems the most recent theories posted here aren't about UB specifically

more about TPW

and the universe itself

[floral mauve]

[delicate atlas]

Yeah but I'm under the impression that UB will give some answers

[azure bay]

they will be difficult to interpret. The game is admitted to by symbolic

[delicate atlas]

I have a feeling it may tie up with TPW so I think it's better to wait for it before theorizing

Fair

I personally think maybe what happened in TPW is separate from what happened in CE and other games

It's just something that only Albert discovered

And only affects him

[azure bay]

I agree, sometimes it's better to wait. But in this specific case it's especially boring. We have a lot of evidence after these 8 years

[delicate atlas]

That way it won't make the other games uncanon

Fair

Are you gonna make a video about it?

[azure bay]

it wont if we are thinking timelines

[delicate atlas]

Would be cool to understand your point of view

[delicate atlas]

I see

[azure bay]

I think I will. Not sure what exactly I'll be speaking of. Because it's too early for a Deep Dive into TPW

well

I mean

the 1st vid will be just a recap

but the second one requires at least some theories

[floral mauve]

bruh your literally 2015 progress

[azure bay]

and I dunno which so far

[floral mauve]

when Mill

when Dale

[azure bay]

right after I finish with TPW

[floral mauve]

???

[azure bay]

the 1st script is already written

[floral mauve]

I thought u said Mill soon

[azure bay]

it was a fragment from History of Creation

I was really proud about it

and after soon I posted the history

[vivid bridge]

When I played TPW, I didn't see the ending as "the future itself is a cube" I saw it as "Albert's weird machine just creates a snapshot of the past, which in return creates a snapshot of the future and so its like an infinite loop" but like, it doesn't actually affect the actual world

just like how changing memories with the help of blue cubes doesn't actually change the real world

memories are their own little worlds

[azure bay]

"We're all trapped inside the cubes we have created. There is a way out. To the lake where we belong, my daughter"

[azure bay]

glad we agree at least on that

[azure bay]

the thing is, Albert said The Future is just another cube like that

and that's not a snapshot of the future they create. The place themselves inside the GC

[vivid bridge]

yeah but i'm saying this specific future he's in is a cube. The future thats inside the cube inside the past which is of course inside the cube in the future which is in the cube in the past etc etc

but they don't affect the real world

[azure bay]

the computer tells otherwise

it speaks about creating a new connection with the past. So does Albert in his letters and while being corrupted.

there's not use for a "real" computer speaking of it without a "real" connection

[vivid bridge]

the computer holds a memory of the past, not the past itself

[azure bay]

that's beyond the point. I call it the past because both the computer and the devs do

whether it's THE past or not

the point is, the computer announces a new connection with the past via the golden cube

before the ch1 ends

and, as I think about it, the whole operation would have no point if Albert didn't reach "the reality"

if he wasn't revived for real

[vivid bridge]

He was revived inside the memory and is now looking for a way out

[azure bay]

but he did find it. And "the master reality" isn't The Future, it's The Lake where "time doesn't exist and one's soul blossoms"

plus

[vivid bridge]

I mean yeah sure

[azure bay]

we can also take Rose's perspective as a reference to prove that it's the same Rose all the time

while the new connection establishing we see the 2D world phasing in

just like we saw 3D phasing in from the pov of her past-self

@vivid bridge actually, I need to thank you

it's very important to have different strong opinions

[vivid bridge]

no problem, that's what i'm here for

[azure bay]

because only a strong alternative gives real reasons to question the main route taken

and questioning means rethinking

which makes theories either stronger or obliterates them

the evidence you find during that does

[vivid bridge]

yeah its important

I'm also learning a lot of stuff that I never thought about from you

we're all having fun here

[azure bay]

for sure

[vivid bridge]

also this isn't really a theory but I kinda dislike how Albert's machine is able to create a golden cube. All this work by Mr. Owl and the gang, a plot like 80 years in the making and then this random guy who died in 1926 is able to make one with some computer he made in his garage

the power creep of rusty lake is insane

[azure bay]

same here, that's inconsistent at least

at least on the surface level

but I have a theory how's that possible

[vivid bridge]

I think I would have preferred it if they just used a blue cube. Those are already associated with time travel and aren't as rare as the golden cube should be

but whats your theory

[azure bay]

initially they needed a cube to contain the future. Blue cubes don't contain the past or the future but are used to bend the time flow.

In Hotel the future was contained in a regular white cube

I guess, they could use one here as well

but another guess, it needed to be golden to make the cube escape possible

[vivid bridge]

wow title drop

[azure bay]

not the series but the actual escape

[vivid bridge]

I wish Albert said "Rose, we have escape this cube on our cube escape" and then everyone claps

Actually, you bring up a good point. Where did Jakob get that white cube in Hotel from

That's not how cubes work

you can't just have them tell you the future

[azure bay]

"the memories are not only a key to the past but also to the future"

that was the 1st time when that phrase was literal

[vivid bridge]

yeah but that doesn't actually explain how he did it

[azure bay]

it doesn't

I'm sure the guests are involved somehow

the cube seems like the major reason Hotel happened

[vivid bridge]

its strange

its not like you need a cube for future sight, Ida does it without one

[azure bay]

maybe Ida has access to future cubes in her head?

and so did the guests... somehow?

[vivid bridge]

I mean, white cubes aren't really future cubes, they are good memory cubes

[azure bay]

Neither I assign the color here

[vivid bridge]

maybe, since time doesn't really exist in the lake, you can find cubes from the future even in the past

but there's no real evidence for that

[azure bay]

or, since the cubes contain their little worlds, you can make them simulate the future?

[vivid bridge]

mmmh I guess?

[azure bay]

using a blue cube, for example

[vivid bridge]

Though tbh I think cubes might only contain one room each. So that wouldn't work

Like that one room is real in the cube but its only that one room. That's why there are no doors in the memories

[azure bay]

the content of the future cube didn't look like 1 room

[vivid bridge]

true

[azure bay]

it was a whole lake bottom + the elevator + the surface

[vivid bridge]

well, the other cube escape games also have areas outside of the major room but they're still focused on the one room

There could be memories of non-cube shaped areas, like the bottom of the lake

[azure bay]

Paradox is kinda represented by a cube

and you can actually leave the room there

[vivid bridge]

I mean, you can leave the room in other memories, too. Like in Birthday

Also Paradox isn't technically a memory, its a simulation

[azure bay]

just wanted to point it out

[vivid bridge]

My point is that memories probably don't contain all the universe, just one room and some outside area

[azure bay]

I still consider The Future a real place and the lack of a door a gameplay/artistic choice

[slow ridge]

I just took a look over the name meaning behind Jacob and Aldous (Mr Owl and Mr Crow)
Jacob means "to follow, behind"
Mr Owl follows his mother's footsteps to become the chosen successor of RL
Aldous meams "Old and wealthy"
Mr Crow is an old wealthy man who watch over his family and many events in RL.

RL really did well in the details as we see

[azure bay]

Case 23 wasn't a memory too

and some of its chapters lacked doors

[vivid bridge]

yeah but there is the door to the other room in chapter 1

it just disappears cause gameplay I guess idk

[azure bay]

I think its lack in the office and in the chapel has partially similar reasons

They rarely add useless elements

[vivid bridge]

well yeah

[azure bay]

if there's a door it has to be useful in one way or another

[vivid bridge]

my main point wasn't even the doors. Just that memory cubes only contain one room each

[azure bay]

My point is, there's no real evidence of the cubes being limited. It could be just unreachable for purely gameplay reasons

[vivid bridge]

true true

[azure bay]

just like the doors

[vivid bridge]

I think the answer to Mr. Owl's future telling cube is "Don't think about it"

[azure bay]

Or maybe we'll be getting more and more future cubes, as we go

[vivid bridge]

I mean, sure

but also Hotel was in 2015 and we haven't really seen future cubes at all since then

[azure bay]

The same quote was used in The Cave when speaking of the GC. That caused some theories of it containing the future. At the time it was superficial, considering Hotel and Paradise. Now it turned out true at least in some cases

[vivid bridge]

I don't remember that, who says that

[azure bay]

The book

[vivid bridge]

ohh

yeah

I think its more of a metaphor, though. Like how Dale is the future for the lake.

it doesn't actually hold the future

[azure bay]

More like memories make the future happen. It was so in Paradise.

But in Hotel and TPW it was literal

How it will turn out for Dale, not sure anymore

Maybe both

[vivid bridge]

well, even in TPW, it wasn't really the future. For "Future" Rose, it was the present when she activated the machine

[azure bay]

It was The Future for The Past

[vivid bridge]

she activates the machine in the present, which creates the infinite loop of past and future. So the context of "Future" only exists in this context

[azure bay]

Albert called it the future

The game does

[vivid bridge]

I know but the story starts when Old Rose activates the machine in the 80s. So its not actually the future

since for her its the present

do you get what i'm saying?

[azure bay]

I do

[vivid bridge]

Owl's white cube is looking into the future cause the future hasn't happened yet. But for Old Rose, the "future" is actually the current day since thats when the story starts

[azure bay]

The Future Rose did not have a golden cube.

The Past Rose did. And relative to the point of its creation it was The future

[vivid bridge]

sure but the future already existed since its actually the present

so its not as impressive as Owl's cube looking into the actual future

[azure bay]

The past, the present and the future are relative. It's the present for the elder Rose, the future for the young one but since we have either none narrators or 2 of them, we are not attached to a single story

It's relative even for us

Hense the wording the devs use

[vivid bridge]

my point is that its not comparable to the future telling cube in Hotel

since TPW actually starts in the 80s, so its not the future, only from Past Rose's perspective

[azure bay]

I think it's a purely narrative reason.

But factually if cubes contain worlds, the past existed even before the future established the 1st connection.
And one being inside another is irrelevant.

The Past and The Future are symmetrical. One is both inside and outside another, they can affect one another in the very same way.

The story beginning is in common. No matter if it's The Future calling The Past or The Past picking up the phone

[vivid bridge]

yeah but like I argued earlier, its not The Future calling The Past, its The Present calling a memory of The Past. We're not actually changing the course of history, we're changing a small copy of The Past

so its not actual time travel

while Owl seeing the future with the cube or Ida seeing the future with her crystal ball is actual time "travel"

but thats just how I see it

[azure bay]

Yes, these are 2 timelines with a time shift

And I'm sure there's one where Dale didn't take the elevator

Where he died in Paradox to save Laura

That would make Owl see an "alternative" future

[vivid bridge]

I don't think that created a seperate timeline

[azure bay]

Why not?

[vivid bridge]

Paradox is just a simulation to explain the whole "one has to die so the other can live" thing. I don't think it has any impact on the actual flow of time

[azure bay]

Im not speaking of it deliberately creating a new timeline

one of quantum theories implies any decituon creating timeline branches

[vivid bridge]

sure

but we don't know if any what-if scenario is actually plot important

[azure bay]

it is in TWD. Sarah's ending achievement is called "The Alternative"

and yet the book written in that scenario is in Paradox

"false accusations" by Robert Hill

[vivid bridge]

hmmm

god its been so long since TWD

[azure bay]

And yet it feels like coming out last month

Crazy

[vivid bridge]

I don't remember literally all plot details like you do so I always have to refresh myself, especially on games like The White Door

[azure bay]

I guess, it comes with time

Maybe theorizing gives anchors on its own

I noticed the book in TWD because I remembered it in Paradox

I remembered it in Paradox because it meant that Bob was innocent at least in Dale's mind

[vivid bridge]

remind me, is the office level in case 23 before or after the events of TWD

before, right?

[azure bay]

Yes

Bob "remembers it"

[vivid bridge]

I don't think i've ever replayed The White Door, which is why I don't remember any of the fine details

[azure bay]

I had several discussions about it. Initially I thought Bob's got a "flashforward" of the police station when he was in the TLS club

But the wording was "I remember him", in present tense, not the past one like the rest of the narrative

[vivid bridge]

yeah he's at the theatre, gets questioned by Dale, shoots himself, has the weird dream about the club, then wakes up at the police station, kills that police officer, runs away, wakes up somewhere and calls the white door

the ending is the only real confusing part

[azure bay]

Well

[vivid bridge]

I mean, he might have written the book either way

also is Bob a fugitive? He killed a police officer and then ran away

[azure bay]

I think there was a reason to put it in that ending specifically

[vivid bridge]

Because we don't see his apartment in the other ending

[azure bay]

It seems, it wasn't the appartement?

Let me check

[vivid bridge]

I think it is

it has the potted plant

[azure bay]

So did his room in TWD

[vivid bridge]

I'd say so

[azure bay]

Ok, here you are definitely right

About the appartement at least

But still, the book doesn't seem important on its own

Relationship with Sarah is enough for the ending to be good

[vivid bridge]

I wouldn't overthink this. The book was a only a small reference in Paradox, like the other books in that puzzle, and they put it here as a reference to Paradox

I don't think it signifies some timeline stuff

[azure bay]

I definitely would because it's unnecesary with no particular purpose

What is the purpose is a different topic

Maybe timelines, maybe not, I mean

For now timelines are the only option here. Can you think of something else?

[vivid bridge]

I think its just a way of showing him continuing his life and overcoming the past

There's no reason why it would be exclusive to the sarah timeline

[azure bay]

We have Sarah doing it even better. The book is redundant in this case

[vivid bridge]

Exactly. That's why I don't think the book is exclusive to that timeline. If he wrote it in the timeline where he doesn't remember Laura, he would definitely write it in the timeline where he does

[azure bay]

You miss my point

If the book is redundant and not exclusive, then why to even bother?

[vivid bridge]

cause its a fun reference to a previous game

[azure bay]

Rather obscur

The book wasn't important in Paradox

[vivid bridge]

yeah but they figured "hey, we're making a game about bob, lets show the book"

also real quick, why did they name him Robert Hill

why does he have the same name as this character

dang it bobby

[azure bay]

Robert probably because of the boyfriend of Laura Palmer

[vivid bridge]

yeah I know

[azure bay]

Joke accepted

[vivid bridge]

but couldn't they have googled the name "Bob Hill" before making that the official name

[azure bay]

seems too light minded of them, sorry. A good example of them hiding messages is The Stars chapter of Roots. That was the 1st time I learnt William's brother was Mr. Crow

because there was a very specific painting with a very specific constellation pattern

[vivid bridge]

yeah but thats intentional storytelling

the books in paradox are nothing more than references to previous characters

Like how there's a book by Ida there

[azure bay]

in Paradox they have a puzzle purpose

[vivid bridge]

of course but they didn't make them with a grand plan of "oh we're gonna make an Ida game where this book is gonna appear"

they just thought "we need some names here, what about Bob from Theatre"

then they made a Bob game and thought "hey, lets put in that book from Paradox"

I can't imagine anything else being their thought process

[azure bay]

to be fair, they had TWD in mind back then. They made a reference to Second Maze

[azure bay]

and still, one thing is to place references somewhere people can see them. And a completely different is showing them for a second in a secret ending

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but where else would you show the book

it has to be written post-TWD

which we only see in that ending

[azure bay]

nowhere. it's just unnecessary and doesn't need to be shown without a suitable place

[vivid bridge]

yeah but its still a neat little piece of worldbuilding

[azure bay]

not worth the time. Unless it has hidden meaning

[vivid bridge]

I think you underestimate the value of a nice little reference

not everything has to have meaning

[azure bay]

no, I don't. But the point of any reference is to be seen and understood

you don't show an obscure underwhelming unnecessary reference for a fraction of a second in a secret ending

[vivid bridge]

ehh, why not

you don't know what the devs are thinking

all we can do is speculate

[azure bay]

I can tell the same

[vivid bridge]

they wouldn't hide some earth shattering timeline changing plot twist for a fraction of a second in a secret ending

[azure bay]

it's not Earth shattering

and not even a plot twist

just an ending placed in the specific timeline

[vivid bridge]

so whats your main theory again? That because the book is in Paradox, the main RL storyline takes place in the sarah timeline?

[azure bay]

rather the opposite, Sarah and Bob are happy together in the main RL storyline

[vivid bridge]

huh?

doesn't... that mean the same

[azure bay]

it shifts the focus

you undermine the major timeline we follow

I make it more climactic

[vivid bridge]

I don't think it really matters whether Bob remembers Laura or not unless we see him again

[azure bay]

We will

I mean

not with Sarah, I think

not the aftermath

[vivid bridge]

I don't really see where his story could go

grand theft bobby, he's still on the run from the police

they should make that game

[azure bay]

in UB it will be his story retold

at least his past with Laura will be flashed out

but back to the point

[vivid bridge]

yeah but thats a flashback

[azure bay]

I don't think the devs consider it that

They still have to keep the newcomers in mind

[azure bay]

we as the audience have grown to love Bob and even Sarah, considering the ARG

And we would want things to be good for both of them in the major timeline we follow

[vivid bridge]

I mean, the main ending for The White Door isn't... bad. He brought the color back into his life and all

[azure bay]

it's good, it has a strong message. But it's not the best

[vivid bridge]

Idk if erasing the memory of his deceased lover is the better option

[azure bay]

it is in some way for Bob

it definitely is for Sarah

[vivid bridge]

Someone tell Sarah there's better ways into a man's heart than erasing that man's memory of his previous lovers

[azure bay]

I think it wasn't to win him over

I think it was to releave his pain. Also probably save him from Owl

"Without the woman his mind will become useless"

could imply that Owl needs both Bob and his memories of Laura

[vivid bridge]

yeah now that I think about it, Owl never actually takes Bob's memories

[azure bay]

I think he does in the theatre. "I saw my memories drifting by"

that could be the underlying reason behind his amnesia

also TLS dream parallels CE Theatre in a way

memory loss, Laura in his head, Dale, Corruption

[vivid bridge]

I guess him shooting himself is the thing

but thats unrelated to the whole memory thing

[azure bay]

what isn't?

[vivid bridge]

him shooting himself

and experiencing the TLS dream

[azure bay]

it was in CE Theatre and cubes still contain worlds, still obey the same rules. If it's possible to extract memories in a cube, see no reasons not to do so in the "reality"

[vivid bridge]

Maybe Mr. Owl doesn't want his memories, maybe he just wanted to test his corruption

since thats really all they do in TWD

they have hazmat suits and everything

[azure bay]

well, if you deal with cubes you have to be ready to deal with CS

[azure bay]

so not sure what their intentions were

[vivid bridge]

yeah but where Rusty Lake Mental Health and Fishing might be designed to harvest memories to feed the lake, The White Door might be designed to study corruption

[azure bay]

everything looked like they were putting them back into his head

[azure bay]

there was Hoorn's interview

"I am talking
about the transmission of graphical responses linked to the visual
cortex from a past stimulus. We
have done some outstanding work
already, but there is still a lot of
additional research to be done."

either about people watching their memories in their heads

or projecting it elsewhere

could be both, judging by the game

[vivid bridge]

Yeah like I said, they seem to be studying the whole corruption thing and I guess Mr. Owl is interested in Bob's corruption since its caused by Laura

[azure bay]

they had only 1 patient corrupted

[vivid bridge]

that we know off

[azure bay]

and 10 uncorrupted

[vivid bridge]

well yeah

[azure bay]

which were all liberated by Sarah

They did research corruption

but I don't think it's their major direction

and not sure they'd deliberately corrupt people

And borderline sure they wouldn't corrupt Bob personally

[vivid bridge]

Bob corrupted himself in the police station

[azure bay]

yes, and?

[vivid bridge]

they didn't corrupt him

[azure bay]

nor they captured him corrupted to study

[vivid bridge]

yeah idk i'm not really a fan of the white door organization

feels redundant

especially now with the best kept memory thing

[azure bay]

I think it's a sister location in a big city. TWD that is

and the major research facility of theirs

RL is probably to bring people to wilderness

or specifically to the lake

[vivid bridge]

I really dislike the idea that Mr. Owl is this well known guy who owns like every company in the world. Like, the UB demo had a statue of him there

[azure bay]

I don't think the statue is literal

[azure bay]

normally, people don't know his name or how he looks

and BKM seems the most profitable venture

with minimal risks too

since they work exclusively with healthy clients

@vivid bridge

[vivid bridge]

yeah yeah i'm here

idk I don't have a lot to say about these sister locations

[azure bay]

nothing else to hate?

[vivid bridge]

no I have a whole list of things to hate

[azure bay]

I mean about the locations

[vivid bridge]

oh idk

I don't really care tbh. I don't like ARGs

[bright parrot]

||I think frank is harvey and the other brother idk his name is dead||

[azure bay]

Ehm... Why?

[bright parrot]

It's just a guess but here are some points I believe that support my theory

||1.) It appeares that Rose knew Harvey from a long time.
2.) We see harvey just after Laura is born at the same time frank and leonard were taken by the tree. So I believe they shared the elixir and frank lived.||

[delicate atlas]

But Harvey existed before the two of them were born

[azure bay]

And they had no elixir

[bright parrot]

||Harvey is a known and important character.
So Harvey is someone we already know (most probably)
Who safeguards Laura||

[bright parrot]

So did jakob

[bright parrot]

Rebirth maybe

[untold stump]

||Harvey delivered Emma's letter to Frank. They cant be the same person||

[azure bay]

But Jakob did have the elixir

It was made by Caroline in the very end

[bright parrot]

The physical elixir

When how

[azure bay]

She used her memories, extracted required elements from them and made them react together

[bright parrot]

Also I have 2 statements to make out of context.
1.) Elixir effects are temporary and thus we know how crow changes.
||2.) Harvey talked to owl in UB demo||

[bright parrot]

But it's not physical
So that's hard to digest for me

[untold stump]

iirc emma wrote a letter after frank fell in the well, and gave it to harvey. Later on frank use that letter to find his timepiece ( not sure if we saw Harvey deliver the letter tho )

[azure bay]

Just accept it.

Also accept that Frank and Leo didn't have even that

[azure bay]

Crow switched to his asura form in Case 23 without drinking any form of elixir

[bright parrot]

But owl needed elixir in cave

[azure bay]

And in The Cave they both can go back and forth after drinking the elixir

The lack of elixir means only human

When it's in their body, they have choice

[bright parrot]

I was already not saying that they took mental elixir, they took real elixir in the basement.

Sort of like Omnitrix

[azure bay]

But there was no elixir

[bright parrot]

We don't know where they went, maybe where they were taken they had elixir.

We've just not seen them

[azure bay]

There's no elixir in general

It's over

[bright parrot]

And so frank and rose story seems incomplete

[azure bay]

Not even Crow and Owl have it

[bright parrot]

IDK buddy
It was a wild shot

Probably worth thinking

Coz harvey is protective towards laura

||And maybe coz frank had emotional sentiments with harvey the parrot, he chose to be harvey.||

[azure bay]

It really isn't we can make an infinite amount of such shots and there'll be effectively infinite amount of misses.

That's why reasoning requires evidence. It narrows this infinity down.

[bright parrot]

We know so little about RL that it's hard to gather evidence

||Probably we will know about Harvey's identity in game||

[azure bay]

We know enough to know something. So instead of writing fanfiction let's focus on something we do have

[bright parrot]

What are your theories then

[azure bay]

About what?

[bright parrot]

Anything

[azure bay]

You're telling we know so little to say anything. I know so much, my anything immobilizes me.

I need at least some point of entry

[bright parrot]

What's the event you think will most probably happen in RL

Like any theory that you still think of

[azure bay]

Dale will become Deva and Owl wants that

He needs someone more powerful than he to take his place

He can't deal with CS

And Dale will be able to

[bright parrot]

That's quite obvious

Owl will try to control dale

And dale will break free

[azure bay]

No, he'll be a fish

[bright parrot]

That's after his death

But he will die somehow

Maybe by dale

[azure bay]

His time is already limited. He's dying, he needs to drink dogshit to sustain himself and dogshit reserves are depleting

[bright parrot]

Dog is immortal

So maybe dogshit is also immortal

He's immortal, why is he dying.
Also here I wanna tell you something about ages of gods and devils and creatures that live in hell

They are not immortal

Even gods are mortal

But their age is a lot

Sometimes millions and billions of years

[azure bay]

Dogshit is immortal... As long as it's inside one's body.

But it's leaving the dog. The dog loses its elixir bit by bit.

The elixir gives real immortality but you have to stop taking the dump

That's how Owl and Crow have lost their powers

That's how the dog will one day

[bright parrot]

So if you excrete after taking elixir, you lose its effects?

[azure bay]

Obviously. Your body doesn't produce the elixir

[bright parrot]

That explains why owl needs elixir

And crow doesn't

[azure bay]

But Crow does //_-

"I need my drink"

[bright parrot]

Ok so now crow also needs drink

And if I'm not wrong

There is 1 generation gap between

Crow turning immortal and Dog turning immortal

[azure bay]

Actually, 10 years between Crow and the dog

[bright parrot]

Also why can't crow make more elixir

[azure bay]

Because it was William who made it

[bright parrot]

So laura can make it

Or it must be in her memories

When she was william

[azure bay]

Yeah, but you need effort to remember your past lives

Oh...

Maybe...

That was the point of her trip...

[bright parrot]

And that's why crow is helping william

And owl is helping crow

[azure bay]

Initially Crow was helping because the brother agreed so

[bright parrot]

To the cabin?

[azure bay]

They knew one of them would die

[azure bay]

More like to Mental Health & Fishing

[bright parrot]

Cabin is a part of MHnF

[azure bay]

Only if in secret. It looked abandonned to Laura

[bright parrot]

And probably Laura's elixir extraction failed

So they made true elixir with dale

[azure bay]

No, they still used Laura's memories

I think they could try to make her remember

Or alternatively push her towards the suicide

These are the only options for now

Maybe over time I'll know more

[bright parrot]

One has to die

To that's most probably Laura

Devs are filling the gaps now coz a new dale game may be the last game of main timeline

[azure bay]

TPW has no reason to be in a different one

[naive stratus]

spoilers are ok here, yeah?

[azure bay]

depending on the game

[covert wyvern]

with spoiler markers for Underground Blossom currently

everything else is fair game

[naive stratus]

mk!

so just wonderin, we dont know who exactly harvey is, no?

[azure bay]

Harvey is Harvey

the devs said they hatched from a black egg

"an old character knowing other characters"

[naive stratus]

ok

[azure bay]

"a guide of sorts to other characters"

[naive stratus]

does that include the human version?

probably

[azure bay]

it's not right to call it human

[naive stratus]

sorry, stupid question

humanoid

[azure bay]

yeah, more so

the most right way is calling them asuras

as it was revealed in Theatre

and yes

[naive stratus]

sorry, just questions 🙂

[vivid bridge]

I don't like using the samsara terms

I just call em funky animal people

[azure bay]

in this series of samsara and rebirths means that different characters can have different forms in different lives and sometimes even preserve their memories and personalities

[naive stratus]

wonderin how exactly dale comes into everythin, and why he happens to be so central

[azure bay]

I use them because they are practical after you've explained them

[vivid bridge]

sure

[azure bay]

Harvey isn't in the center. Mostly Dale is

Laura in a way

Owl is the current lake ruler

[vivid bridge]

I don't think there is a reason for why him specifically. He was just the right guy in the right place at the right time

[naive stratus]

yes, that would be why i said "dale" and not "harvey" 😅

[azure bay]

ah, sry

I misread

[naive stratus]

well but it seems to me that he was chosen

[azure bay]

even tho it's implied, I'm not sure who chose him and why in a broad sense.

I know that Owl could choose him because he saw him in a "future memory", a prophecy of sorts

[vivid bridge]

yeah

I hate using fate or prophecy as a way to explain storylines cause its so cheap but thats what it is

[naive stratus]

because in birthday, mr rabbit (who we have seen before) was the one to show up, and mentioned in his note that he needed the object from the box to help balance the substance of his past lives, yeah?

i also hate callin it fate, but i dont think thats what this is

[azure bay]

well, imo the prophecy just highlights the suiting candidate. But why he's suiting is the other matter. For me it's his intelligence, problem solving capabilities and the trauma he can overcome

[azure bay]

technically there is notion of "fate". But at the same time you can "change your fate"

[naive stratus]

it seems that due to his interaction with a corrupted soul at a young age, he was specifically chosen for this role.

right, so im thinking that he was assigned the fate he has for that reason? or at least that was part of it?

[azure bay]

I think it's not his experience but his potential

but the reason is Mr. Rabbit

[naive stratus]

it could be both?

[azure bay]

it about "dealing with his past"

"only then he could become what he was meant to be"

[naive stratus]

like, not just the fact that he had the experience, but how he dealt with it?

[azure bay]

originally he didn't deal with it in any way

only after he revisited his memory muuuuuch later

[naive stratus]

originally

right, but he did revisit it

ok so i was right and it was the fact that he had the experience and the potential to deal with it in a manner beneficial to the lake

[azure bay]

but he was chosen before he revisited anything

before he had any experience

it was the potential of having it

or rather the potential to overcome his fears

to overcome himself

the journey he was put on is to reshape him

to make it possible to become something much bigger than we've ever seen

@naive stratus if you get what I mean

[naive stratus]

that's... exactly what i said

[naive stratus]

right here

[azure bay]

no, there's difference

the experience

Dale has none

he gets it afterwards

it's not a factor to be chosen for

but the potential of getting it is

[azure bay]

it's one thing and not the other

[naive stratus]

but he couldnt have had the potential if mr rabbit hadnt shown up on that birthday and given him that trauma and alerted him to the "past lives".

and mr rabbit showing up was guess what something he experienced, ergo, ✨the experience✨

[floral mauve]

fate

[naive stratus]

yes, among other things

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/experience?utm_campaign=sd&utm_medium=serp&utm_source=jsonld

and, nowhere, if you don't feel like opening the link, here's what it says:

EXPERIENCE

1 -
a: direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge
b: the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation
2 - practical knowledge, skill, or practice derived from direct observation of or participation in events or in a particular activity
3 - something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through
4 -
a: the conscious events that make up an individual life
b: the events that make up the conscious past of a community or nation or humankind generally
5 - the act or process of directly perceiving events or reality

note 3, 4, and 5 in particular.

[floral mauve]

I dont quite follow the argument above

@naive stratus nowhere is asleep right now

imo, fate leads to experience, potential could be a result of fate

it is unkown how rabbits found Dale, might be crow but for crow and owl, they arent certain whether Dale is the right person or no until case 23

For rabbit, Dale is the solution to escape his current state, according to the fact that cube could be another timeline or world, rabbit after blue cube changes did manage to escape his current state by dying to a bullet

[naive stratus]

so rabbit found dale because he had the gun that rabbit needed to balance his past lives,

and nowhere is saying that something that happened to dale is not an experience that dale had

but according to... well, the english language, when something happens to someone, they have had an experience.

[ebon aspen]

It seems we are only having a misunderstanding based on terminology

[floral mauve]

I think he meant it ocurred to him not because Dale himself is special

[floral mauve]

exactly

[naive stratus]

at this point in the arguement, im starting to think that they just massively misunderstood what i was saying

[floral mauve]

lets blame language barrier for dis

[naive stratus]

yeah thats exactly what im starting to think 😅

[ebon aspen]

The experiencw nowhere (apparently) is talking about is more about the "wisdom of age" or smth

[naive stratus]

right, whereas i was talking about an occurance

i see the confusion

[azure bay]

Well, you don't have to reference dictionary after explaining what you mean by it.

I thought you meant "Dale met a CS once, now he's experienced enough to rule the lake"

[azure bay]

According not to the language, but to a dictionary.

Using it as indisputable evidence is a slippery slope.

People writing them are not experts in every field. They just describe their idea of a common use of terms which may depend on time and personal biases. Different dictionaries may present different definitions. Even different editions of the same one may.

Maybe it's less true for our case specifically but I'm speaking generally

A good example is arguing whether a falling tree produces sound if nobody's around to hear it.

The answer may differ depending on definition

The tree produces air vibrations

But it doesn't produce any singnal in the auditory cortex

Both could be defined as sound

Both are the "English language"

[bright parrot]

@azure bay Laura is Manushya/Human

In theatre

[azure bay]

when she was alive, yes

but the play was about her death

and in The Cave she's in 2 realms

[bright parrot]

Then she died and became preta

Human and preta right?

[azure bay]

yep

[bright parrot]

Is human becoming CS is a metaphor to person dying slowly

Coz soul is after death transition state

[floral mauve]

but technically, she is dead, ehmmm, and then she got corrupted, she then is in between corpse and CS, both are pretty terrible imo

[bright parrot]

She's shown dead, we see no wounds and/or any other signs

Edit- My bad she's shown dead with blood

Maybe she was just unconscious

[floral mauve]

if she returns back to corpse state, is she human or she simply ables to respawn from samsara

I will guess latter tbh, otherwise I dont see it being fair

[bright parrot]

Also if she was corpse, her body would have started decomposing

[bright parrot]

In mythologies
Human is a soul in the vessel of body and death frees soul. Now if soul wants it can attain moksha.

Soul can't and don't want to go back in body coz it's like a prison for it.

Though RL can be different here

And their concept of CS is working like "Venom" from marvel comics

[azure bay]

what is that about?

[bright parrot]

Laura and dale

Switching between human and cs form

Both are going through existential crisis

And bob also started to go corrupt after Laura's death

And more in TWD

He was also going through existential crisis

[azure bay]

Dale didn't start to corrupt until he was at the lake bottom

[bright parrot]

In theatre

In paradox

[azure bay]

it's after he's got there

both are

[bright parrot]

Bob

[azure bay]

Bob is a different matter

for Bob and Van Gogh it was likely about depression and madness

[bright parrot]

Why not then dale and laura

They too are going through same

And even more then them

[azure bay]

we don't know if it's the same

and likely not

[bright parrot]

I don't believe that it's related to the place

Maybe the lake may have triggered it

But the reason is poor mental health

[azure bay]

I think it was Owl and his crew

I have several guesses

[bright parrot]

Laura was triggered in mill

[azure bay]

it was different for Laura

[bright parrot]

But she was suffering from mental health issues already

Bob had a trigger point

Laura's death

[azure bay]

yes, I think it played its part

but the main reason was painful memory extraction

[bright parrot]

It's like a volcano

[bright parrot]

I believe the impact of event caused corruption not the process

[azure bay]

what impact?

[bright parrot]

She went through bad memories maybe that triggered her

Memory extraction seems harmless

Till it is not impacting in a harmful way

[azure bay]

I don't really see a reason to separate the process from its impact

at least yet

it's true that painful memory extraction is not guarantee

that it "could" lead to corruption

and it did in The Mill and Theatre

both according to Owl

and BKM doesn't work with mentally unstable clients

likely to minimize the risk of their experimental procedure

It was my big theory about every corruption being connected to strong negative feelings

but we have William

who could be corrupted just by the elixir

at least it was heavily anticipated

by the brothers I mean

and we have Albert

who was corrupted... with coins?!!

[bright parrot]

If a person is mentally stable then black cube extraction may not break that person

[bright parrot]

What when

[azure bay]

play TPW at last

[bright parrot]

I have the game just looking for right moment

[azure bay]

If crow was somehow extra careful he could nail even Laura, I reckon. Owl warned about possible corruption

[vivid bridge]

I think extracting bad memories causes permanent corruption while depression just has you turn corrupted for a while, like with Bob and maybe Laura

Also this might just be me overthinking things but I always thought the corrupted soul at the end of Harvey's Box was Laura and she was just putting him back in the box. It wasn't until the collection gave you the achievement "You died" that I was like "Huh?"

[bright parrot]

It's like running a blade over rope again and again, you never know when it may cut.

And black cube extraction is like a straight blow on it if the rope was strong enough it may not snap

[azure bay]

I remind that there are parallels between The Lost Soul and Theatre. The shot, losing memories, losing Laura, corruption. If TLS is really what Bob sees while feverdreaming in Theatre, even memory extraction corruption isn't permament in some cases

[bright parrot]

@azure bay

Cube extraction in machine is like talking to a therapist. And maybe dale talking to crow in paradox is that

[azure bay]

too poetic, not enough factual. Owl warned, therefore, it was possible

[vivid bridge]

yeah but Laura coming back from memory extraction corruption is a very specific exception

[bright parrot]

Like therapist talks to you about your bad memories

It may hurt but

[azure bay]

Dale's memories were not extracted in any point

[bright parrot]

If you are strong enough you'll get through it

Listen me for once

[vivid bridge]

I think his memories might be extracted during Paradox since afterwards, his memories are inside cubes floating around the lake

[bright parrot]

Paradox is the process of extraction of memory from dale

We see birthday, theatre

[vivid bridge]

Paradox has both Laura and Dale end up in semi-corrupted states seemingly

[azure bay]

they were there even before Dale was connected to the machine

in Case 23

[vivid bridge]

I don't think so

[bright parrot]

First they made those memories white cubes

Then they extracted it in paradox

[vivid bridge]

His narration at the end of Case 23 could have been after Paradox

[bright parrot]

They were black cubes extracted right

[vivid bridge]

actually isn't it in Birthday?

[azure bay]

that's quite a leap

[vivid bridge]

is is

[azure bay]

it was and for me it means that his situation wasn't changed by Paradox

[vivid bridge]

the end narration of Case 23 is the intro narration of Birthday

He's describing himself post-paradox

[azure bay]

"Finally I reached the lake" implies his situation right after taking The Cabin elevator

[bright parrot]

Maybe he went to ground floor

In white cube room

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but he might not be aware about his surroundings after going down the elevator

[bright parrot]

Yes

[azure bay]

why?

[vivid bridge]

He goes in the elevator, blacks out and finds himself in the paradox room

from there he goes up the elevator and is like "damn I feel weird"

[bright parrot]

But we don't see him going in elevator

After paradox

[azure bay]

He walked into the big white cube using his own legs

[vivid bridge]

I don't know why you're arguing about this nowhere, the narration is literally when he's going up the elevator in Birthday

[bright parrot]

Yup that too

[azure bay]

because it's the same lake and the same effect

[bright parrot]

That's when he was walking to cube maybe

They fixed the memory and helped dale out of pain

Now dale is pure

And it will not be easy to corrupt him

[vivid bridge]

no i'm talking about the "I feel different" dialogue. Nowhere is saying that that is said right after Chapter 4 of Case 23 but we literally know when its said cause we see it being said

its said after Paradox when he's going up

flickering between normal and corrupted

[bright parrot]

For that we must first see the effects of Paradox

As paradox is not physical

It's all in mind

[vivid bridge]

the physical effects of paradox is the creation of the golden cube and Laura and Dale being half-corrupted, which we see in Birthday

[bright parrot]

2nd we don't see golden cube on dale so probably no

[vivid bridge]

yeah because the golden cube wasn't invented yet by the devs

He just put it in his pocket

[azure bay]

why couldn't it be said 2 times? Why do you have to do a leap and overthink the placement of what he says? His narrative was pretty much reliable so far.

[vivid bridge]

bruh you're the one overthinking it if you have to argue that he said it two different times

[azure bay]

I'm not overthinking

[vivid bridge]

Why would he say that he feels different and that his memories have been extracted before any of that happened

[azure bay]

I think it was before the GC, and The Cave

many people still theorize that Birthday comes right after Case 23

[vivid bridge]

but he wasn't half-corrupt at that point and also his memories hadn't been extracted. Both of those are effects of Paradox

[vivid bridge]

I mean, that's... wrong

[bright parrot]

Dale brings blue cube

[vivid bridge]

no he doesn't

the cube isn't connected to him

[bright parrot]

And laura brings black and white

To make elixir

[vivid bridge]

I've wanted to talk about the blue cube with you, nowhere. The blue cube in The Cave makes no sense

[azure bay]

why?

[vivid bridge]

First off, we've never seen blue cubes in the actual world since their purpose is to rewind memories. Them existing in the real world has no point. Also where does it come from? It doesn't come from Laura or Dale

[floral mauve]

it was first time we ever see it in real reality I think

[bright parrot]

But there is no continuity error

[azure bay]

and imo it's just another confirmation that memories are just as real

[bright parrot]

Reality is quite questionable in RL games.

[vivid bridge]

I feel like the blue cube is only in The Cave so there is three cubes to find and thus three gameplay sections (cause Rule of Three). It has no actual lore implications

I just wanted to mention that

[azure bay]

I think it has

it's the time cube

at the same time the GC couldn't be created with any black and white one

[vivid bridge]

whatcha mean

[azure bay]

it needed Laura's cubes specifically

[bright parrot]

In cave book says this about Blue cube
"The past is never dead it's not even past"

[vivid bridge]

yeah but thats just a phrase from a previous game

[bright parrot]

And gold cube
"Memories are key to not only past but also future"

[bright parrot]

But it must mean something

[vivid bridge]

rusty lake just likes to reuse the same edgy quotes

[azure bay]

@bright parrot are you just throwing evidence or do you have a useful message?

[vivid bridge]

sometimes edgy reoccuring phrases are just that

[bright parrot]

He got in elevator with just one button so it's directly going down.
He's slowly getting corrupt.
He's speaking about feeling not normal

[azure bay]

they do have to mean something in the book

it's the major lore source

[vivid bridge]

most of those quotes in the book are just vague buzzwords

[bright parrot]

I just want to know how everyone interprets this.
For me now memories are like stages of video game unlocked after game competition and level select mode type

[azure bay]

relieve your past, face your demons and memories are key to the future pretty much make sense to me

so does the blue cube which is marked with a clock

[bright parrot]

Though what I think it means is

Past can be changed and that changed past becomes your new identity but maybe butterfly effect is not working here

[azure bay]

And I want to speak with Ellesian withot deing distracted

[vivid bridge]

I don't buy it. I think they just added the blue cube cause its a recognizable object and because it does the rule of three in the game. And then for the book they reused their edgy past is never dead quote. Doesn't mean its relevant

Sometimes gameplay is more important than lore

[azure bay]

please, hear me out

[vivid bridge]

sure

[azure bay]

they established that Laura still had William's memories about elixir

[vivid bridge]

Not really

[vivid bridge]

yeah I get that

yeah sure

I guess so

[azure bay]

the elixir elements are inside the cube that was taken from Laura

[vivid bridge]

sure

[azure bay]

here we have them marked with the elixir insignia

[vivid bridge]

yep

I get that part. The goal is the golden cube for the "full elixir"

and you also need Laura and Dale for that cause one of them has to die so that the other can ascend

[azure bay]

And here is Caroline's formula

these elements were taken from her memories in the ending

[vivid bridge]

Yes

[azure bay]

so what the machine did was taking elements from Williams memories in the same way

and I can rationalize why they needed a blue cube here

it's established to be the cube of time

[vivid bridge]

okay but as I said, the blue cube was never shown to physically exist in the real world

[azure bay]

we've been through this. TPW equalizes memories and the "real world"

and the blue cube makes sense in this case

[vivid bridge]

Just because the people inside memories have autonomy doesn't mean memory things like blue cubes work in the real world

what, can you rewind time with the blue cube in the real world

[azure bay]

it was not only about the autonomy

The Past was affecting The Future directly after a new connection was established

THE future

not its snapshot

since the perspective shift from 3D to 2D was gradual for Rose

[vivid bridge]

That's not even the discussion rn. My point is that the blue cube being in The Cave is purely for gameplay reasons and the blue cubes does kinda come out of nowhere

[azure bay]

so I think we can

[vivid bridge]

yeah I don't think so

but maybe, we don't know

we're just speculating

[azure bay]

there's literally no difference. All are cubes. There's no "unreal world".

the laws are equal

blue cubes can exist everywhere

[vivid bridge]

I don't think so

[azure bay]

why are you still denying that?

[vivid bridge]

Yeah, they do. I'm just saying that doesn't make a lot of sense

[vivid bridge]

we've never been shown blue cubes working in the real world

they're more of a tool to use inside memories than actual memory cubes

[azure bay]

there's no real world

[vivid bridge]

:/

[azure bay]

there are cubes floating around the lake

Rose and Albert were still trapped in The Future

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but that doesn't mean everything is cubes

[azure bay]

why?

[vivid bridge]

Rose and Albert being stuck in an endless cube loop doesn't mean everything is cubes

[azure bay]

It started normally

there was no reason to think it's unreal

in the end Albert says that they are all trapped

and in between there was no change of perspective

also

if there was a "real world" somewhere outside

would Albert be willing to get there?

[vivid bridge]

yes I think that's literally what he's talking about

He's alive but he's trapped inside the cube loop

he's not in the real world yet

[azure bay]

but he doesn't speak of the real world

[vivid bridge]

"trapped inside cubes" implies a space outside of that trap

[azure bay]

he speaks of the lake "where time does not exist and souls blossom"

that's the space outside

[vivid bridge]

I just don't see it like that. Both Past and Future in that game are very specifically inside each other and thus not part of the outside world

nowhere I don't think this discussion is gonna go anywhere

[azure bay]

I repeat

the world it all started in was real

and nothing changed till the end

only this real world was placed inside another world

which could be considered unreal

but in this case it isn't

you wouldn't be able to revive Albert if his bodily substances weren't real

and again

if there's a reality more real than the future

it doesn't look like the future

it's the nirvana-like lake

[vivid bridge]

yeah I just don't think so. I think both Past and Future in TPW are cubes with memories of Future and Past that are inside each other, which I guess is the only way to revive Albert but has the consequence that they're trapped in the loop

Again, nowhere, I don't think either of us is gonna be able to convince the other

[azure bay]

please, understand 1 simple fact

it there was the "master reality"

the thing you call the real world

Albert would rather go there

but no, he goes out all the timelines

[vivid bridge]

Albert does wanna go to the real world but he can't since he's trapped in the loop

and I guess going to the lake is the solution to that

both Future and Past in TPW are memories inside each other

[azure bay]

they were not initially

[vivid bridge]

yeah but at the end they are

[azure bay]

The Future isn't even a memory

there's no one to remember it

for real

initially memories repeat the world they were created in

unless there was an external intervention

like in Seasons or birthday

but there was none

[vivid bridge]

At the beginning of TPW, The Future interacts with a memory of The Past. Then at the middle point, they create a golden cube version of the Future inside the past, which is where chapter 2 of The Future takes place. From that point onwards, its an infinite loop

so at the end, its both memories

[azure bay]

memories or cubes?

there is difference

[vivid bridge]

you're splitting hairs. Yes, its not a "memory" of the future but it literally doesn't make a difference. All cubes contain places, whether those are created from memories or with energy from the future or whatever

Though we're not sure if the past "memory" is an actual memory or if Albert just calls it that

[azure bay]

I think The Past is a memory of Rose

[vivid bridge]

sure

[azure bay]

she's the only person alive there

[vivid bridge]

yeah probably

[azure bay]

it was even called a memory in the CD

"enter the year of the memory"

[vivid bridge]

yeah I know

At the beginning, The Past memory is in the future but then halfway through the game, the future gets replicated or transported into a golden cube so at that point both past and present are both cubes inside each other and thus seperate from reality

[azure bay]

1. it wasn't replicated because the perspective of the elder was continuous. So it was transported.
2. if cubes contain worlds with people having the same idea of normalcy as we do, why wouldn't it be possible to transport our own world inside a cube?

[vivid bridge]

Yeah that's why I was unsure to say replicated or transported since the perspective of the future rose was continuous. I just don't think literally all of reality was put inside the golden cube in the past memory

I think it just copied the lab from the future and its connection to the past memory

It's sci-fi, the machine can do whatever it wants

the point is at the end of the game, past memory and future "memory" are inside each other and presumably detached from reality

[azure bay]

then why do we have a place that

1. contains the cubes (even those in the loop)
2. has no time
3. smells like a buddhist heaven?

[vivid bridge]

well, first off I always assumed the lake has a more rust-based smell

the lake is its own thing

[azure bay]

a figure of speach

[vivid bridge]

I know, i'm just joking

You might be able to leave memories or whatever through the lake if the lake exists in all layers of existence or something

The ending for TPW was kinda vague tbh

[azure bay]

I can explain it a bit more

the cubes don't only contain worlds

they are the doors

and normally you adopt the body of your other-self

what Roses did is entering the opposite cubes simultaneously

therefore switching minds

but they did it right at the moment of entering the cubes

to they both streamed back in

and each moment it was even faster and faster until their minds merged together

and broke from these (un)realities

and there was only the lake outside

[vivid bridge]

okay yeah sure

all memories exist in the metaphysical lake space, which connects to the "real world" through its surface

[azure bay]

Does Case 23 take place in that "real world", according to you?

[vivid bridge]

yeah

[azure bay]

Does The Mill?

[vivid bridge]

since its not a character going through memories

nope yes

[azure bay]

The Mill isn't real?

[vivid bridge]

oh wait sorry

yes its in the real world

[azure bay]

then here's the thing

[vivid bridge]

I misread your question sorry

[azure bay]

Case 23 features the cactus Laura planted in one of Seasons timelines

so does The Mill

Laura remembers the cactus

another thing she remembers is the green gem from The Lake

which many consider another "memory alteration"

[vivid bridge]

There's a difference between real events and the memories of them. Dale visiting Bob in the theatre is a real event we see in TWD but the game "CE: Theatre" is a distorted memory of that, since we see Dale enter the cube at the beginning. Seasons is the same thing

Interestingly enough I don't think The Lake is a memory

I think thats the real event

[azure bay]

so how does the ending change?

[vivid bridge]

Either the ending change is just a gameplay thing to make players go play the other game OR you could explain it that its the same force that rewinded time in Case 23 when Dale fails Chapter 4

You said that yourself in your video

[azure bay]

ok

that force was The Lake

[vivid bridge]

yes

[azure bay]

and the place we found the blue cube was The Lake

[vivid bridge]

mmmmmmmm

[azure bay]

don't you find these forces being alike?

[vivid bridge]

I get what you're trying to say

I'm gonna use my good friend occam's razor here. I doubt that the devs had in mind that the multiple endings in The Lake are caused by a blue cube floating around the lake

I really doubt that

[azure bay]

I mean

The Lake and blue cubes share powers

[vivid bridge]

You could explain it like this but like, come on. We both know the devs didn't do that intentionally

[azure bay]

the blue cube was a thing since Seasons

[vivid bridge]

yeah I know

but the blue cube in that game simply allowed you to go back to previous memories

[azure bay]

and made the clock go backwards

just like in Birthday