🤔｜theories

[final atlas]

Now i have a question:

Harvey's box happens when?

[azure bay]

1969

during Laura's trip to the lake

[final atlas]

And It happens outside of the cabin

Right?

[azure bay]

not sure

[final atlas]

Because the Wood in the left when you look up after you shoot the fireflies in the corrupted soul

[azure bay]

it could be either a roof edge or a skirting board under a ceiling

[final atlas]

Oh, that makes sense

[final atlas]

That soul is of Laura? Or a generic one?

[azure bay]

Laura is meant to be alive back then

and be attacked by a CS too

some theorize it was the same CS that attacked both of them

some theorize Harvey saves Laura in the pentacle ending

[final atlas]

That CS can be the body that Laura find

[azure bay]

also a possibility

or it could be Dale

[final atlas]

Dale?!

I don't understand

[azure bay]

it's a long story

basically it's about Paradox

we see Dale's CS killing Laura

[final atlas]

Yes, i remember that

[azure bay]

but at the same time in a memory in The Cave Laura kills herself with her own hands

[final atlas]

Yes

[azure bay]

so all the imagery of CS killing her is some kind of metaphor

so the theory is, this metaphor is about Dale's CS pushing her towards suicide

and The Lake is the best game to fit there

[final atlas]

And I thought that not much changed in the story...

[azure bay]

what didn't?

[final atlas]

I thought that the game does not change so much, but now i understand

[azure bay]

The game itself probably doesn't

but the trip itself is one of the most vague events in the series

why did Owl make her arrive?

what happened?

[bright parrot]

I believe that owl died and reincarnated.

But there is also a possibility that he had elixir and became immortal.

The owl statue is a special place because it's on the place of heaven/deva in samsara cycle
But it's removed in later installments

[azure bay]

1. Yeah, Jakob died before becoming Owl

2. Yes, that happened because Caroline created elixir using her memories about its elements in the ending.

3. No, he isn't immortal. In The Cave he's as weaked as Crow and in Paradox he admits his time being limited.

4. Owl was never depicted as deva in Rusty Lake. It appears only on the wheel of Paradise/Paradox and it's at the very bottom where we normally see hell.

5. How does all this answer my question about Owl orchestrating Laura's trip to the lake?

[bright parrot]

It doesn't coz I didn't read the whole convo but.

What I believe is that
Laura was either suffering from bad mental health (because she was william so premonitions or smth)and Owl came forward to "help" her.
They knew owl because Laura was in Hotel for sometime.

Also there is already all other forms in book
Owl-?
Fish-Animal
Face-Human
Deer-Asura
Forest-Narka
Black human- Corrupted soul.

Also sharing elixir mentally doesn't make sense to me.

[azure bay]

I think, here, deer is deva because deer is Dale and Dale is deva

That makes sense under the context of Paradox where this bhavacacra appears too

At the same time, Owl journey is inferior to Dale's one so I don't expect them ending up on the same level

[bright parrot]

Makes sense

[tiny kelp]

does anyone have any theories here about harvey? I’ve always been curious because there seems to be some inconsistencies in the timeline

[fierce beacon]

some say hes a kind of spirit guide @tiny kelp

[tiny kelp]

that’s a good one, but I’m curious as to how that would work with the ‘breakout’ achievement in ce birthday (which still partially confuses me in a way)

[fierce beacon]

im not sure

[azure bay]

The devs called Harvey an old character who knows many others, also sort of a guide for other characters that came from a black egg

That has nothing to do with the breakout. Demigod Harvey died back then and was resurrected as a more or less regular bird by Mr. Owl.

How Harvey became a demigod in the 1st place is a mystery.

Maybe we'll get some answers in a game about him. We've got several subtle teasers about demigod Harvey and a tree blooming under the lake

[tiny kelp]

good to know, I’ll keep that in mind !

[vivid bridge]

my theory is that in the final game, Dale is gonna turn into an animal person and he's gonna be a small mexican chihuahua (chihuawow), making the entire series one big twin peaks joke

https://tenor.com/view/twin-peaks-dale-cooper-gordon-gif-9538290

[azure bay]

so you have 2 statements

1. Dale will become an animal person

2. That will be mexican chihuahua

[vivid bridge]

well, the second one requires the first and also its mostly a joke

but I do think its likely that he'll become an animal person

unless they do a switcheroo and Laura is the one who gets to live

[azure bay]

it's a good thing to know not only what you thing but also why you think so

it may seem obvious but I'd like to hear your reasons to believe Dale will become an animal person

[vivid bridge]

oh wait you're that guy I see all the time on the reddit. Makes sense that you hang around here, too

[azure bay]

lol people start recognizing me 🤣

[vivid bridge]

[vivid bridge]

Well, Mr. Owl needs a replacement and its either gonna be Dale or Laura. And whoever it is will probably turn into an animal person by drinking the elixir made from the golden cube

Dale is the protagonist so he's the default candidate but Paradox leaves it intentionally vague so he could die and Laura becomes the enlightened one

[azure bay]

it seems to me, the fact that Dale took the elevator ride means he was chosen after all

Paradox takes place before Birthday and Theatre

[vivid bridge]

You say that but for all we know, Laura is also gonna show up at the hotel. All Non-Dale characters can just kinda teleport around lol

How did Laura get into the white cube house, you know?

[azure bay]

I think she was recaptured

[vivid bridge]

Did Mr. Owl drag her corpse down there in his diving suit?

They could just bring her up there after Dale

[azure bay]

she escaped from the mill

[vivid bridge]

I know, I know

Again, based on all we know, the finale is gonna have both of them drink the elixir and one is gonna die, the other one becomes enlightened. Classic elixir shenanigans. That requires Laura to be at the hotel in the end

She can always come up afterwards together with Aldous and Jakob

[royal notch]

Or, maybe, the golden cube is a new and "certain" kind of elixir.

[azure bay]

2 secret endings of paradox make me think that the choice who lives and who dies is made in the big white cube

they are mutually exclusive

Dale either dies or finds the elevator. In both cases new loop iteration doesn't start

[vivid bridge]

I don't remember Paradox telling the player how its gonna end, it just informs Dale that he and Laura can't coexist and that for her to live he has to die. It doesn't say that thats whats gonna happen

Its been a while since I played Paradox, though

[azure bay]

Dale dies after drinking from the green vial. The secret cinematic scene we get as a reward indicates that

and Paradox doesn't restart afterwards

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but thats not really the "canon" ending. The canon ending is him just leaving the loop through the elevator

[azure bay]

well, technically I think both endings are canon

but yeah, that's not the one we're following

[vivid bridge]

Yeah

You could say then that the one we're following is the opposite one, where he doesn't sacrifice himself

but thats just speculation

Paradox is just so damn cryptic

[azure bay]

so I think THIS is the point where elixir's choice is made

Dale either dies moving from Laura's way

or takes this way himself

[vivid bridge]

I guess you could see it like that

We won't know til we get to the hotel

[azure bay]

true

[vivid bridge]

I've been waiting for that to happen since 2015

They've been making a lot of spinoffs recently

[azure bay]

I assume that they assume, that would be like Endgame for MCU

a big climax after which many lose their interest

[vivid bridge]

yeah but they could always just make a new storyline. They just opened up a whole can of worms with Albert being back

do something with that

Don't have Dale in that damn elevator for 8 years

[azure bay]

his wording makes me think they closed it right away

Albert seemed to be more interested in leaving the cube they are all trapped in

[subtle granite]

Panel istiyorum

[azure bay]

and reaching the lake he thinks he belongs to

[vivid bridge]

Yeah but you could always have that lead to something

Or just create a new storyline

With Dale/Laura as the new head of the lake

and some new events happening

There's a lot of corners of the world you can explore outside of the main narrative

@covert wyvern

[azure bay]

sry meant to ping a normal moderator

[vivid bridge]

no your ping was also good

[covert wyvern]

@subtle granite dont advertise

yeah the normal mod ping is the way to go.

[vivid bridge]

I know you're always here, Damy

anyways

@azure bay something that has been bothering me since 2015 is the Winter memory in Seasons. How does that work? How is there a memory from 10 years after she died? I usually chalk it up to being early-installment weirdness but you maybe could see it as being proof that she does come back to live eventually? Though its unclear if that was even on the devs mind when they made that game

what do you think

[azure bay]

I think corrupted souls create memories too

for me it likely means Seasons as a whole taking place after 1981

[lean rapids]

wait but dont you need a brain to store memory data
but corrupted souls dont have brains or bodies
rusty lake logic i guess

what if shes a psychic or something

[thorny tapir]

Fill me in?

[bright parrot]

I believe seasons is altered memory just like birthday or theatre.

Here's a theory
When laura was in the machine (In the mill) that's when Seasons take place

I have some facts to prove it

1.) Laura is dead before some events of Seasons

2.) The memory is distorted like Birthday

3.) When dale was found at the end of cave, he was wearing a vr headset type thingie through which he could see those past memories

That same process is done to laura in mills

[azure bay]

Souls ARE memories in a way

[azure bay]

I am tired of telling you that things inside the cubes are just as real as the things outside

[bright parrot]

Yes I know

But it's different

[azure bay]

there is no reason for it to be different.

[bright parrot]

It's just a small theory/plot hole filling

I am not denying/questioning the reality of cubes

[azure bay]

Cube Escape Seasons, Birthday and Theatre are cubes

distorting them is just as difficult as distorting the reality

[bright parrot]

But that was done in birthday

And seasons

Just read the theory as absolute it's not connected to the conversation that was going on

[azure bay]

1. ghost have memories too. William and the guests are clear examples
2. If by distortion you mean deception, I disagree. You can alter the world to some extent. We do it all the time. For example, rn I'm making my messages appear on the screen.
3. Seeing something doesn't mean seeing Seasons. Dale saw Paradox and Seasons are nothing like Paradox. More like Birthday, as you pointed it out yourself, and Birthday is a cube physically floating in the lake, not a VR show

[azure bay]

.

[bright parrot]

Maybe cubes are VR show
As they are memory fragments they can be viewed.
Rusty lake games are following episodic approach.
That may mean that we are just seeing some cubes

[azure bay]

The cubes aren't VR show

VR show wouldn't have such impact on the reality in TPW

[bright parrot]

I called it a VR show just to explain that we can see the cubes.
It sure maybe more than a VR show

[azure bay]

I really want to insert a quote you get in the very beginning of TPW

[bright parrot]

1st as we can see
"CUBICAL DEVICE"
Its like a TV for memory

[azure bay]

in The Past 1st thing we see is a letter

[bright parrot]

What

I've made a device

[azure bay]

||"Be aware, the room you are in now may be affected by this person [from the future]."||

Rose wouldn't get this letter if it was just a simulation

[bright parrot]

It's a memory

An incident

An episode

[azure bay]

"an episode" wouldn't have such power in ch2

[bright parrot]

I am using episode as in

An episode of memory

A small part

A scene of memory

Cubes are episodes of memory

[azure bay]

no, they are doors

into a certain point of a certain timeline

[bright parrot]

That too

They also are a part of memory from certain time

On certain timeline

Of certain duration

[azure bay]

Laura's cubes contain all her life before death as well as at least 1 whole past life of hers

just 2 cubes

[bright parrot]

The seasons is in 4 cubes

[azure bay]

looks like just a depiction

because in The Mill they've extracted 2 cubes

and in The Cave they've collected 2 cubes

one white

one black

[azure bay]

@bright parrot is there any special concept for a soul or anything close to it in Buddhism?

[bright parrot]

As far as I know

Soul never stays soul

For a long time

It has to go somewhere soon

Like heaven or hell
Or get a body smth

[azure bay]

I wonder if there's a word for such intermediate state

[gentle moss]

Hungry ghost?

[floral mauve]

thats not an intermediate state

[azure bay]

or it seems so

[bright parrot]

That intermediate state is soul

[azure bay]

I wonder how it would look and sound in Sanskrit

[bright parrot]

Its called

"Aatma"

The term preta means ghost

Ghost are souls that did not find vessels

But I've not seen the concept of ghost in Jainism. If there exists the concept of ghost in Buddhism it might have been added later on by other relegious leaders of Buddhism
(Jainism and Buddhism are almost same and they are from same period)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preta

@azure bay

This is all about ghost/preta

I forgot about that cremation/funeral part

[azure bay]

Some including myself wonder why there was preta on Albert's scheme when he created Rose

[floral mauve]

blame the devs unless they meant that they captured a CS and dumped into the mixture to form Rose

[bright parrot]

Wait
Where

[azure bay]

the brood chapter

[bright parrot]

Where in brood

[azure bay]

the scheme

[bright parrot]

Scheme as in that poster of instructions

[azure bay]

yep

[bright parrot]

Well that's confusing

Coz she's deva

[bright parrot]

Maybe Rose is unexpected result of Albert's experiment

[azure bay]

no, it's definitely preta

[bright parrot]

No not that.
Rose is deva in later game.

She got that deva timepiece

[azure bay]

deva timepiece doesn't mean she's deva

it's more about the series themes overall

initially humans ruled the lake, then it was an asura before he created a deva to replace himself

[bright parrot]

He who?

[azure bay]

the asura

[bright parrot]

Asura can't create deva

Asuras and devas are either reincarnations of themselves

Or they are made

[azure bay]

I mean RL as a whole is about Owl creating a deva.

Making Dale a deva

[bright parrot]

Lemme explain you the concept of hell and heaven.

It's like a ledger of good and bad deeds based on which you will get heaven or hell.
There are multiple levels of both.

The highest of heaven is moksha

A deva is a person who has attained moksha

But I don't think devs have implemented it

[gentle moss]

To create a human being you really need to want to do this. You can’t imagine how difficult in theory it is. Practically it is almost impossible!

And Albert was really intending to do so, otherwise he wouldn’t conserve Ida’s egg

Which is creepy!

[bright parrot]

Not that
Nowherecrow said that

Rose is written as preta

In Albert's scheme

[azure bay]

not necessarily Rose

[bright parrot]

So maybe albert wanted someone more
Albert than IDA

But Rose is more like IDA

[bright parrot]

From what I interepret the expected result of experiment was "preta".

[azure bay]

I don't see how Albert would be more connected to a CS than Ida

[bright parrot]

Idk
Maybe albert wanted to create a CS

[azure bay]

or an ingredient

[bright parrot]

What ingredient

It was a biological experiment.

[gentle moss]

You don’t see my point

Albert INTENDED to create a human being

Not an ingredient not CS

A human

[azure bay]

my guess is that the devs didn't know or didn't want to use atman to designate a soul. Because in their wording pretas are technically (corrupted) souls

alternatively, that could be a mistake and they could intend to use the human word instead but I somewhat doubt that

[bright parrot]

That may be the case

[floral mauve]

My guess is that the devs decided to stick with the samsara 6 words Sanskrit rather than add an additional one since they set the tone back in theatre already

[bright parrot]

That too

[vale wraith]

Hey guys
I have a question
( rusty lake roots spoiler )
.
.
Did albert killed other cause of the revenge or he did it for william?
I mean
I think he did it for revenge
For the pain that his sister and brother did to him
And then he loved ida
But ida was inlove with his brother samuel
Albert couldnt have ida for himself
So he had to kill him but still wanted her so he got a piece of her hair off and he made rose as a reminder of his love ida
But some people told me that no albert actully find his fathers and willam's library so he continue studing the elixir to making it

[ebon aspen]

He did it for his revenge too, but since william and aldous were pulling strings since his childhood, who knows how much is how they planned?
Either way, william did help albert

[vale wraith]

Yes they did
William and aldous helped him for their gaols
But i just wanted to know why albert did thoes things
Cause i really dont think that he actully saw the library and was interested to make elixir or anything
I think he only did for revenge
But why he trapped frank in the will?
Did he wanted to kill him but he saw he's actully alive and wanted to keep there or something?
Why he kept frank in the will?
Cause in the end when frank got out of the will and was playing chess with albert
We saw that albert wanted him dead
But he loosed hehe
And what happend to ida's son?
He just randomly went to the battle field?
And then aldous saved him
Again and again and again
Well once someone told me that it was a curse thing that every time was happening in vanderboom's blood family memeber or something
And every time it has to be 1 girl and 2 boys
So for reborning william in laura
They needed 2 boys and 1 girl vanderboom blood members?
Idk...

[ebon aspen]

He did what he did to frank bc of emma

[high talon]

I dont think he would've fed Frank if he wanted him to die

just let the kid starve ya know what's he gonna do?

[floral mauve]

he wants to torture the kid

[vale wraith]

I know he did for making emma suffer and emme killed herself
But then he kept frank
And still making him suffer and poor

[floral mauve]

though its not fun if he escaped thats why he wants to kill him

[high talon]

I mean Albert's clearly not stable minded

he pretty much is the guy to 'fuck around and find out' as they say

[vale wraith]

Yeah true
But still he was giving him dog piss and other shits hehe

[high talon]

That was Rose; not Albert

[vale wraith]

Hehe
Ah thats sad
You know
Albert is my fav character
I truly love him
But the thing he did to frank
It was just too much
I mean i totaly give him right to whatever did to emma and samuel
But ida...
And frank...
Nope

[high talon]

You can like a bad character

[vale wraith]

Oh yeah yeah
At least she gived him a cooked fish 🤡
Albert gived him a potato i gues i dont remember well

[high talon]

I mean a lot of people like Albert [i don't personally] but ey whatever floats everyone's boats

[vale wraith]

Thank you guys

[azure bay]

@vale wraith @ebon aspen objectively, it's not that clear how many strings Aldous and William were pulling. If you think about it, all they needed was just sit and wait until Vanderbooms all die by natural and no so natural causes.

It's important to note here, that in rusty lake the player's interactions with the world aren't always the same to the ones of the protagonist. Considering how many things that we help Vanderbooms do wouldn't make sense for William, we can't be sure anymore even about those that do make sense.

[carmine field]

We must remember that William and Aldous needed Frank alive (Rose and Leonard as well), even though we're not sure of the implications of the death of any of the three on their plan

I think it's valid that Albert leaving Frank alive could have been influenced by Aldous and William, but we don't have any evidence to confirm that

[azure bay]

that is for sure

[floral mauve]

probably because of the timepiece requirement though we see not much of its use except simply becoming part of the ritual for William

thats the string part

[azure bay]

I don't really get what are you trying to say. Are you proving some point or contesting it?

[floral mauve]

just adding more points to ur point

like sacrifice isnt enough

also need 3 ppl to find timepieces

so u have to pull string a bit to achieve it

[azure bay]

yeah, agree. But the point was more about Albert being manipulated to kill his family.

which may not be the case

[floral mauve]

is it possible that Albert and William know each other at some point

since collecting eyes are quite hard unlike James's tongue or Mary's teeth

[azure bay]

I think we would know

[floral mauve]

especially Albert would probably keep his eyes on Ida's body all the time

dont ban me

[floral mauve]

also funny eyes reference

[covert wyvern]

ban you, got it!

[carmine field]

I think that William's corrupted soul is invisible to the family (or they just didn't notice him), but who knows

We don't even know if Albert noticed that bird-like corrupted soul that appeared in some of Albert's scenes and gave us the deer skull

[river zephyr]

Is this the right channel to say, I recently played White Door and noticed there’s no reference to Robert in the police station in case 23, I’ve always thought it was him but now I’m not so sure as I think it’d create some problems of where’d that fit into his life timeline, also he corrupts 2/3 times depending on if it’s him in case 23, which I didn’t think was realistically possible lmao

[carmine field]

Yep, it's him in the police station

why do you think it breaks the timeline?

[river zephyr]

Well it’s just never mentioned and the memories shown seem like right after each other

[carmine field]

The police station scene occured months after the crime scene

[river zephyr]

Damn Dale was stuck on it for a while lmao

[carmine field]

It's said in-game, before you play part 2

[river zephyr]

I’ve never payed much attention to the dates tbh

[carmine field]

The crime scene took place in Fall 1971, while the rest of Case 23 took place in Summer 1972 if I'm not mistaken

I don't remember exactly where this "summer" came from though

[river zephyr]

Wait so White Door happens during summer 1972

[carmine field]

It happens in august, so yeah

[river zephyr]

Yeah that’s what I meant to say

So he breaks out of the police station (or is realised once it’s confirmed suicide) and that leads to him on the street and ending up at white door

[carmine field]

Perhaps

[river zephyr]

Alright then

[carmine field]

Some things to point here:

• Bob's asset in the police station is the same used when he enters the Theatre's restroom
• if you're playing Collection, there is an easter egg on the police station TV in which Bob appears to be arrested
• he seems to be corrupted many times due to mental issues and not because he is dead or something. This also happened to Van Gogh in Arles

[river zephyr]

I did not know that damn thanks

[azure bay]

agree

[azure bay]

we don't

[azure bay]

Bob's timeline is weird indeed. But the police station secret scene in TWD leaves no doubt it was him.

The base game makes us think that Bob woke up in the street and got into TWD after shooting himself (even though with a year gap). But in the reality, considering both Case 23 and the secret scene, Bob wakes up after escaping the police station and the gap becomes a bit shorter but much weirder.

Somehow Bob not only survives the shot but also has no scar left after the incident.

[azure bay]

originally it comes from a date screen of Case 23. However it's missing in the CEC version.

[river zephyr]

I didn’t fight that secret scene damn

[final atlas]

Is there a secret ending in the white door?

[ebon aspen]

Yep

Wouldnt call it secret, but rather a not-so-straightforward-epilogue

[azure bay]

Also, there's an actual secret ending hidden behind an old ARG

[azure bay]

I am looking for theorists

[hollow raptor]

well, you definetly are in the right channel

[azure bay]

we have to only hope it's not deserted

[carmine field]

hi

[carmine field]

brought a topic here

There are some hints that time in the Mill may flow differently

• in the police department of Case 23, we have a text (and later a graphical representation on the printer) with the excerpt "As he approached the mill, the time stopped"
• The Mill takes place in both October 1971 and Summer 1972, and unlike Case 23, which is split into four parts, The Mill occurs in a single session. It's likely that there was a timeskip that wasn't presented to the player, but who knows

The mill divides the Lake of memories from the pure water of the river, so I think it would be interesting if it actually had something

these hints don't prove anything, but I think it's an interesting topic

I believe that the Lake has the power to distort the time stream, considering Dale's stay in the elevator: he stayed at least four months in the Lake

We tend to believe he was kept alive and well because he was under the influence of the Lake

[azure bay]

considering the numbers actually appearing above the lake in The Mill, I think the time stopped there for real

[azure bay]

and didn't even regrow his beard, I might add

[carmine field]

Good points

[carmine field]

Oh wait

it's more likely that there really was a timeskip anyway

because of the Theatre scene

it occurs sometime after the Crime Scene

Mr. Crow was there

🥴

[azure bay]

keeping a dead body for nearly a year would cause problems

and seems unreasonable

[long smelt]

If Lauras memories got extracted shortly after she died. How could Cube escape seasons take place. She died in 1971, how could her corupted soul still have those memories in the 80's?

[azure bay]

I think she stole them

maybe even not long after The Cave when they were left in the same room

[long smelt]

That makes sense.

[azure bay]

Which ending of The Lake is canon and why?

[covert wyvern]

Both are, the timeline splits there

[azure bay]

ok, I'll reiterate

Which ending leads to Seasons?

[floral mauve]

nowhere recently got obsessed with this topic nonstop

[carmine field]

probably the one she survives

[covert wyvern]

Reasonable,

I'm inclined to agree with 7810 on this one, i think the alternative one, so the one with the seasons box leads to Seasons.

[carmine field]

well, you need a code from Seasons to do the secret ending

so I think it's reasonable to think that this is the ending that leads to Seasons

[azure bay]

A strange mood fell upon me, I claimed a workshop and started my mysterious creation

[covert wyvern]

Tinkering away to the cubical device's rival?

[azure bay]

I heard a different interpretation of the box

Laura needs to come back from Seasons to change the ending

[carmine field]

it's an interesting assumption

I think the question we should be asking ourselves is: Is The Lake a memory revisited by the now-deceased Laura?

[azure bay]

it's really hard to tell

by default nothing implies it

unlike Seasons or Arles

but the fact that you change something could mean that

[carmine field]

We know that the Lake gives another chance to people, but we don't know when exactly
Is it necessarily after she has died? If so, would that mean that the Dale in Case 23 part 4 is actually him dead revisiting this memory? (Considering that the Lake gives him another chance when he dies)

Could be different cases too

[azure bay]

I don't think entering cubes and the lake giving another chance should be the same

I think it could be either way for Laura

[carmine field]

I have an idea

When someone dead revisits their memories or the past, they are no longer dead. In fact, they returned to the form they had in the memory

[azure bay]

I think the wording is a bit off. Dead people are inert, they don't do anything. But, corrupted souls can indeed revisit their memories

But it's unclear whether they occupy their old body

We see both Mr. Rabbit and his soul in Hotel

At the same time

[carmine field]

yeah

[azure bay]

And in Case 23 Laura and (some) CS share the same photo with the house

There are not many candidates to be there

And all seem alive at the time

[carmine field]

About that, I like to think it's yes and no. It could be both, because the memories are reality, and it depends on the player to change

[carmine field]

which photo?

[azure bay]

The photo of Laura's house Dale brought to his office

But the closest look at it is in the ch1 preview screen

[carmine field]

ohh

[terse estuary]

I was confused enough as it is, I didn't need to know there were timeliness splits

[azure bay]

For now you can consider them changing memories/reality rather than timeline branches

But what would you see in The Lake? Changing memory or the reality?

[terse estuary]

As far as I can tell, memory IS reality

[floral mauve]

debatable, u could say alternative reality

not direct reality

Dale's parents are still dead but could survive in another reality

[jolly cargo]

Whoops

[ebon aspen]

@jolly cargo please dont send copypastas or spammy images

[jolly cargo]

Sorrrrryyy

[jolly cargo]

Who made YOU mod of this discord chat? The Guy who made you Mod of Discord Chat?

[ebon aspen]

thats not relevant for theories

[potent cairn]

Any theories on the hotel?

[plain token]

is the person on the boat aldous?

[azure bay]

At least in Case 23 and the opening scene of The Cave

[azure bay]

What kind of theories do you expect?

[carmine field]

if it weren't for the difference in beak sizes, I'd be inclined to believe this little guy is this corrupted soul

though size really might not matter

[azure bay]

Many think it's corrupted Crow. I tend to agree but the only evidence is Aldous' portrait in The Lying Game for otherwise no clear reason

[plain token]

is laura like possessed by William’s corrupted soul and she look like… the way she does
Also,do we know who killed laura?

[azure bay]

William is Laura

[plain token]

explain?

[azure bay]

reincarnation

[plain token]

so when laura was born inside she was williams?

[azure bay]

that was the point of Roots and Samsara Room

to make a ghost live again

[plain token]

I don’t really understand how reincarnation works but ok

Do we know whose corrupted soul killed laura

[azure bay]

same soul, new body

sometimes old memories

[plain token]

yeah I know what it is

[azure bay]

Technically speaking, she killed herself. In her memory we saw in The Cave she was welding the knife. Any imagery of a CS killing her is symbolic and can be interpreted in many ways

could be her depression, could be Dale's CS possessing her or pushing her towards suicide (considering Paradox)

[plain token]

So not a specific answer

[azure bay]

we almost never have one

[plain token]

i guess you’re right

[carmine field]

Any theories on The Lost Soul Club? It is shown in one of Bob's dreams shortly after the theatre scene

First, when the dream begins, you see a flashback of past events while driving the car. It could be Bob's delusions

Then we see a doorman who would appear in a later scene giving Bob a ride

The doorman lets Bob in after Bob claims he doesn't remember who himself is

like it was a requirement to enter the club

Then we see some familiar figures, like the TV guy and the Lady of the Lake (in her black dress)

and the deer-headed Dale

The DJ is Mr. Owl too

[azure bay]

TLS is a fever dream 1st and foremost

[carmine field]

it can be

One point I would like to raise is about Laura's appearance

As the events of TLS take place right after the Theatre, it's possible that Laura was brought in by Mr. Owl to TLS before appearing in the Mill without breaking the timeline

but all could be just a dream

[azure bay]

It starts right after Bob shot himself, outside he sees giant donut, the plant and TV, the club itself is a collection of familiar images.

What's more, all these "memories drifting by" could be his cubes being taken away in Theatre and corruption in the end could mirror his corruption in the toilet

[carmine field]

then there is deer-headed Dale 💀

[azure bay]

Who doesn't even exist yet

[carmine field]

I'm on the verge of theorizing that deer-headed Dale travels through time

[azure bay]

He kinda does but come on. Both his appearances take place in an unreal setting

[carmine field]

this is true, but he is apparently referenced in Caroline's book, which leads to the belief that he is not only unreal but could be something weirder

I can assume that he is Dale's deva form

[azure bay]

I think it's almost certainly that

That's why it doesn't exist yet

[carmine field]

I'm thinking about it now...

Dale was never placed as a human on the Samsara wheel with Laura, Aldous or others

Isn't it possible that he is already a deva?

with his journey being one of awakening that side of him?

Is it not strange that he is the One able to stop the corrupted souls?

Mr. Owl just saw him and assumed that, right?

[azure bay]

Nope. "Before, I was a human like you"

[azure bay]

I don't get what strange is here you see

He saw Dale in a prophecy

He knows he's a successor candidate. Normal people don't get to the lake bottom to then ascend to the hotel

In Theatre he knows Dale will become a deva

[rotund ridge]

i have a question i need answered for my theory, in cube escape case 23 dale cannot enter the second room, why is that? my thoery is that he is in a memory

[floral mauve]

Owl magic

cut a house in half and hide it in another dimension sort of thing

I originally thought case 23-1 was a fake place but it turns out Laura did live there

[rotund ridge]

so half the house fell into the backrooms🤔

[floral mauve]

just a guess

no clear indication of where that place went, though many ppl state seasons room aint a real place

I personally take seasons room a real place, but it abbreviate the real events as a part of the season

[rotund ridge]

ya, its kinda hard to try explain lauras death when in seasons she dies in the room with the fireplace, but in case 23 she is in the another room, its hard to understand what is the real event

[floral mauve]

the problem with this is that, ehm, RL universe tend to have some weird cube like room shape which is hard to say whether that place is fictional or real in that university setting

[rotund ridge]

i would like to use the idea that any time their are weird puzzles it is in a memory and its your brains way of locking unwanted memories, but that would make paradise a memory as well

[floral mauve]

tbh, paradise isnt cube shaped, actually, as I recall, it might be the only game isnt that cube shaped, though there are tonnes of black cubes, but u have to walk around the island

[rotund ridge]

maybe its a really big cube 🤷‍♂️

[floral mauve]

could be

tpw way of seeing it

[rotund ridge]

oh wait their are people their

not many games have people

who talk back

so maybe the ones with talking people are real events

[floral mauve]

ehm, I dont think you should take that as an indication

birthday and theatre for example

[rotund ridge]

oh ya 😦

[floral mauve]

and hard to define real

memories can be real

or altered a bit

[rotund ridge]

i am trying to create a narrative timeline, but its kinda hard when the timeline is talking about a guy doing stuff and remember the past, it would feel all over the place

[floral mauve]

tbh, once u get familiar with each game, u can actually sort out some of the timelines easily, or just read a timeline map

[rotund ridge]

which timeline map is the best iyo

[floral mauve]

@azure bay this guy

[rotund ridge]

does he have a tattoo of the timeline or somthing?

[floral mauve]

he is probably asleep or busy, let me ehm

find it

[rotund ridge]

oh wow

do you have one that i can read lol

[floral mauve]

only one error I think, of triplets birthday, it was April,

[floral mauve]

bruh

[rotund ridge]

sorry xd

[floral mauve]

check out wiki maybe

[rotund ridge]

ok thanks

[floral mauve]

you could read it by opening it in browser and use laptop

pretty handy I would say

[rotund ridge]

thank you👍

[azure bay]

TPW has proven that ||memories are as real as the reality||

[wanton heart]

Has anyone thought about why Samsara Room's ending theme is named Apotheosis, when Dale is the one supposed to ascend to a deva state?
I think that this, combined with Paradox's green vial ending, might mean that the finale could have an alternate/secret ending, where Dale is sacrificed so that Laura ascends to be the Ruler of the Lake, even if that role is already said to be Dale's by Mr. Owl

[azure bay]

Samsara Room has nothing to do with Paradox. It's exploring the ending of Roots

[wanton heart]

Yes, but why is Apotheosis playing when William is reincarnating as Laura if Laura is supposed to be human not a god

[azure bay]

Probably because the theme name doesn't really have to reflect the lore?

We get a corrupted soul being reborn as a human

both from the intended story pov and visually

it's apotheosis what doesn't make sense here

[carmine field]

True! Actually I forgot about that

[carmine field]

What I mean is: why Dale, of all people? Hence came the idea that he could already be a deva

If it really isn't the case, it's still curious

Dale apparently had no connection to Rusty Lake, with the exception of the Birthday stuff (the gun, the letters, the grandfather (?)), which are open to discussion

[azure bay]

My personal guess that disdains nepotism is that Dale has a potential for self-development.

He has traumas to overcome and he's smart.

IMO it's his elevator trip everybody else lacked that will make him a deva (and not some special kind of elixir)

[azure bay]

Need to point out that the pistol was likely there originally but the letters were inserted retroactively.

[vague imp]

Hi I cant play chapter 1 because of a bug with the rotary phone

[covert wyvern]

@vague imp this isnt the right channel, please provide screenshots / a recording to #bug-reports-old

[vague imp]

Thanks sorry, I was going to ask where I could put the question

[azure bay]

:c

[azure bay]

Ms. Pheasant is reincarnated Elizabeth and its ghost lived with Rose at the same time

[umbral shell]

Where did ms pheasants Ghost live with rose

[azure bay]

not with Rose but during the same time period

that's what I meant

[umbral shell]

But isn’t Harvey a bigger bird in rusty lake hotel

And then there is an Easter egg

Of him in paradise

As a normal bird

[azure bay]

how is that related to the theory?

[umbral shell]

The time period

[azure bay]

as the matter of fact, yes, Harvey was seen as an animal in Paradise and as a demigod in Hotel

is there any contradiction?

[umbral shell]

But doesn’t he turn into a normal bird at the end of hotel

Because rose looks a lot like Elizabeth

[azure bay]

not really in the end but a year later, yes. He was killed by the ghosts of the guests he killed

[umbral shell]

Yea

That’s what I meant

[azure bay]

but why does it mean that Elisabeth can't be Pheasant?

@umbral shell

[plain token]

What kind of connection does the paradise to mr owl?

[azure bay]

The protagonist became him in the end and built the hotel on the island

[plain token]

Is jakod mr owl?

[azure bay]

yep

[plain token]

Ooooh

[azure bay]

backed up even more in Paradox

[plain token]

so after being sacrificed,jakob,built the hotel?

[azure bay]

that wasn't that simple

being just sacrificed would bring nothing

it was his mother's plan that saved him in the end

prepared bit by bit during the whole game

[plain token]

anyway

[azure bay]

the cubes Jakob was flushing down the lake contained Caroline's memories of the elixir she discovered

[plain token]

Why did mr owl built the hotel

?

[azure bay]

and in the end she gathered all of them, made the elixir and performed the enlightenment ritual sacrificing herself along the way

[azure bay]

there's no clear answer to that. I think 1st & foremost to have his operation base in the heart of the lake

and the secondary goal would be to lure people like Laura or the guests

[plain token]

so couldn’t jakob return to the paradise?

[azure bay]

I didn't get the question

[plain token]

when jakob became mr owl,could he have returned to the paradise?

[azure bay]

Maybe I wasn't clear. The hotel was built right there

not sure when

[plain token]

oh right

thanks for the information

[carmine field]

I tend to believe this because of the 1966 scene in Birthday and mainly because of the elevator.

[azure bay]

I don't get what you mean

[carmine field]

Sorry, it was about the 1st item

Anyway

[azure bay]

(I'd prefer you to explain your pov as if I were stupid because I'm still missing the context)

[carmine field]

Let me rephrase what I said

I tend to believe the Hotel is Mr. Owl's operation base because of the 1966 scene in Birthday and mainly because of the elevator.

• The scene from Birthday occurs specifically in the Hotel and nowhere else

• The elevator was from the Hotel, so I believe that the elevator preparation took place in the Hotel

Anyway, was the Hotel used by any newcomers after the incident in 1894?

[azure bay]

Laura, I believe

Maybe van Gogh long before the incident

[carmine field]

Possible

[azure bay]

the key inside the renewed crate in The Cave gives me an idea that we'll see more of Laura's trip in the next game

[carmine field]

When it's going to release?

[azure bay]

the most recent promise was "spring 2023" but it's already mid-spring and we heard nothing of it so far

so I expect a delay unless they want to surprise us

[carmine field]

The previews are nice

Apparently it's about Laura's life, so it makes sense if Laura's trip appears

Since it's very important

[azure bay]

it is but it was mostly left out for 8 years

[vague imp]

is dale's grandfather the crow? they have identical appearances

the only difference between them is their surnames. Aldous' surname is Vanderboom and the grandfather's is Vandermeer

unless somehow the crow managed to enter Dale's memory and take the role of his grandfather

and why would he do that? to help Dale recover his memories

one small detail which seems ironic is that both surnames start with "vander" this ain't coincidence

[covert wyvern]

Vander is dutch, van der, or "from the"

Meer and tree means lake and tree respectively:)

[vague imp]

oh

I see

but why do both characters look the same?

it would seem lazy if it was due to laziness, using the same sprite

[delicate atlas]

There are some differences

Like the wrinkles on Dale's grandpa vs Crow's smoother face

And thw cheekbones

Could be that they thought of Grandpa's design first before Mr. Crows' human form and ended up borrowing from it later

[river bluff]

Honestly when I was replaying the games with my bf, I accidentally told him Mr Crow was grandpa

[carmine field]

In fact, Crow's other appearances are quite similar to the grandfather's

They are basically identical, but that's it

We see no connection between him and Mr. Crow beyond their designs

[vague imp]

actually mr crow's human design came before cube escape: birthday

[river bluff]

Maybe you’re right and he did insert himself into Dale’s memories

That would kinda make sense as to why you watch Dale’s parents get killed, but then you use the box and ||grandpa saves everyone||

[vague imp]

I don't think Dale's original grandpa could ever remember that mr rabbit barged into their home and shot everyone

unless he saw it coming when he probably saw a vision like Laura did in cube escape: seasons, when she looked at the moon and saw herself getting stabbed

it was later confirmed she ||killed herself|| so that I suppose is how she managed to change the past, because if she hadn't seen this coming, she wouldn't had built the thing that changed her past at the end of the game

[azure bay]

I think it was Dale who told everyone and for some reason grandpa was the only person to take him seriously.

Later on father asked Dale how he knew it was coming

But that doesn't mean that grandpa is Crow yet

Grandpa seemed cool enough to tale a child seriously

These black eyes are nothing but a design choice. Later on the devs stopped using it. For example, in The Cave Crow has blue normal eyes and in TWD they are just dots

[vague imp]

actually I got something wrong, it's not mr crow's fur, but it's just emptiness, because mr. crow's head doesn't fit with the mask

[azure bay]

But dude. It's not. He had such eyes even before he became Crow. And he didn't have them in more recent games

It's nothing paranormal

Just shadows for mysterious vibes

[vague imp]

I don't see why the creators would randomly add black eyes for "mysterious vibes"

and why they would use the same sprite for both dale's grandfather and mr crow

[azure bay]

I have a different question. Why not? They are reusing sprites here and there

Mr. Deer, Mr. Rabbit, Harvey, William, James and Samuel were the same cloths, for example

Sometimes they are even colored similarly

[vague imp]

clothes I do not mind, they don't change the story in any way

but character design is important

imagine one actor playing two characters in a series, how do you know who is who?

[azure bay]

Ok, here's the design differences of grandpa: his skin is lighter than Crow has ever had, grandpa unlike Crow even when he was younger has at least some hair left, grandpa unlike Crow wears glasses and vibrant suit, grandpa is much more childish and has much less mysterious presence than Crow. He doesn't even say "you know what to do' once

[vague imp]

why would he say that to Dale, it's not like he repeats that sentence every game

[azure bay]

I mean that would be the definitive evidence. But since it's not present, you can't say for sure, all things considered

I admit, all things considered grandpa could be Crow. But at the same time he could be not

The devs espesially in the earlier years when they were making 1 game per month could cut corners even though it's anticlimactic for us

[carmine field]

It's really more likely that it's just a reuse of assets, considering that so far there has been no approach on the grandfather

[azure bay]

Wdym by approach?

[carmine field]

Anything with Dale's grandfather besides Birthday

[vague imp]

if that were to be true, the developers would change it later on in the series, like they did with William's corpse in samsara room

forgot to use reply

it was meant for 7810

[azure bay]

Samsara Room was a complete remake of a previously uncanon game. CE Collection is a rebundle with minimal changes. There were so many things they'd better fix and replace but they didn't

[vague imp]

how is it uncanon, it's clearly the process of William's reincarnation

[carmine field]

The old Samsara Room had nothing with Roots

[azure bay]

The emphasis on "previously"

[carmine field]

The remake tied it with the series lore

[vague imp]

then why did they add William to the game, and at the end of the game we literally see rose holding her child

oh

[azure bay]

yep

That wasn't the case in the OG SR

[carmine field]

Yep

Cube Escape didnt even exist yet

[vague imp]

they changed other things in cube escape though I think

[carmine field]

not really, just added some new secrets

[azure bay]

The changes were even more cosmetic. Like changing some voicelines and candles' flame

But low quality corrupted souls are still there

Even in Theatre

The oversight of HB that doesn't let us tell for sure if the box is inside or outside the cabin is there too

[vague imp]

the developers can't be careless about the designs though, the faces look way too similar and fans could mistake Dale's grandfather for mr crow

[azure bay]

The problem is, you don't know

It would be bad to be that careless

But still it's a possibility

And with all differences between grandpa and Crow it's not a small one

And, as I think about it, it wouldn't even be that bad.

It doesn't break the continuity

And becomes a source of theories

Another topic for us to discuss

And if I were a dev making something lynchian that would be a win for me

[vague imp]

i have a question for you, nowhere

what was the first ce game you ever discovered?

[carmine field]

We would need more evidence, but since we don't have it, it's safe to assume that the grandfather and Mr. Crow are different characters

Honestly, I wish Grandpa was Mr. Crow, but there was nothing new until then

[azure bay]

The Cave. I was sold on the elixir extraction process

[azure bay]

There was 1 thing

a theatre style gin tonic recipe in his pocket

[carmine field]

Not very strong evidence though....

[azure bay]

Why do you think so?

[vague imp]

that's cool, my first game was sr, the remake version. I thought it was the only game, until I looked closely and saw a bunch of games, that's when I had started to adore the series

[vague imp]

oh shi

I forgor

[azure bay]

7810 is still right. It's not definitive

But I'd like to hear his alternative explanations

[vague imp]

bro now I'm wondering if the bartender was mr. crow

I'm tripping fr

[azure bay]

And the bartender WAS Mr. Crow

He looks younger but the facial features are similar

[vague imp]

the bartender's voice sounds an awful lot like dale's grandpa

[azure bay]

That's the problem of using the same voice actor for every role

[vague imp]

hell nah

[azure bay]

So nothing useful here

[vague imp]

using the same voice actor sounds bs

[azure bay]

But that's true. Since Hotel Bob Rafferty had their back for nearly every characters with 2 exceptions

[carmine field]

Several secrets in the series are given by things without much sense (as I remember, not sure)

However, if Mr. Crow is in fact the grandfather, it would make a lot of sense, but there hasn't been any approach on this for a long time, which is a problem considering what the fact that Dale is Mr. Crow could implicate the series and Dale's own journey

Sorry for not answering in time

I'm kinda busy

[azure bay]

If we take Paradise or TWD as an achievement reference, some of their eater eggs make sense and some don't. They give a pattern and the gin tonic one rather fits the one that makes sense

[vague imp]

tell me why mr. crow would be in Dale's theater memory but not his birthday memory, it's obvious that he was in both memories

[delicate atlas]

Oh I see

[azure bay]

Being inside a memory (at face value) could mean 2 thing: either a person was inserted there or it was there during the original event.

Grandpa could be at the actual birthday party regardless if he's Crow or not. And if he's Crow in one way or another he may or may not be there originally. We have much uncertainty here.

On the other hand, we know for sure that Crow was at the theatre for real - we have another witness. He wasn't inserted there retroactively.

That level of certainty is what differenciates the cases from one another

[vague imp]

I will admit there are so many questions unanswered and the details are not making things any easier for us, so we'll just leave this mr crow being dale's grandfather theory as unknown.

[azure bay]

My favorite theory was that Crow was only impersonating grandpa to oversee Dale's progress

However TPW confirmed that memories are actually timelines

So they can be changed only in a sense of changing reality

You can't easily introduce a grandpa into a familly without them questionning it

[carmine field]

Unless he was Dale's grandfather for real, the theory fails there

[vague imp]

the small details we find are not making things any easier, let's just leave it there

[azure bay]

I prefer to know all the implications in advance

[vague imp]

I'll look into it more later on

I gotta replay all the games to remember what the heck happened

so far I'm at the cave

[carmine field]

off-topic: what if the random hands we see throughout the series are people manipulating cubes, as if they had put their hands inside the cubes?

in a similar way to what happens in TPW

[azure bay]

I personally prefer questions with a limited space of answers

Limited by evidence, I mean

[carmine field]

You are right. But is there another way to explain those arms and hands?

[azure bay]

We know nothing about the hands besides that "they belong to different people". I'm not even sure what cases can we qualify as similar.

We can find dozens of explanations to that if we ponder long enough but that doesn't mean that any of them would be intended by the devs

[vague imp]

does cube escape the cave come before or after case 23?

[azure bay]

do you mind if I ask some questions before answering yours?

[vague imp]

sure

[azure bay]

why is it confusing? I often see people misplacing The Cave or Paradox in relation to Bday and Theatre but Case 23 seems clear for the majority of fans

[vague imp]

I'm not quite good at understanding seasons because I'm still new to this world, so I can't know what comes first, in cube escape the cave, the date is winter 1972, and in case 23 it's summer 1972.

and I don't care whether you think I'm smart or dumb, I'm here only to solve a story I have interest in

[river bluff]

Summer is two seasons before winter, so Case 23 would come first

[azure bay]

no such implications

[azure bay]

what Michael is right about is that each winter is split between 2 years

winter 1972 could be either Jan-Feb or Dec

@vague imp would you prefer me giving the answer straight away or helping you solve it yourself?

[vague imp]

honestly I don't mind giving me answers

it helps a lot

[azure bay]

story-wise Case 23 is the beginning of Dale's arc it starts in fall 1971 and goes on for nearly a year

[vague imp]

in that case (I didn't intend that pun) case 23 came first before the cave

[azure bay]

yep

did you play other games?

or they pose no problems?

[vague imp]

I remember playing all of them, but that was in 2018 or 2019, but now I have to recollect all of my memories (pun intended)

and yes it means I didn't play tpw yet

[azure bay]

what about The White Door and Samsara Room?

[vague imp]

I did play both twd and sr

tbh i think the ce lore is more interesting than fnaf

[azure bay]

why?

[vague imp]

the fnaf lore is weird as f, I can't understand how golden freddy can be fredbear despite the different hat and bow tie color, just an example how messed up the lore is to fnaf

but I think the developers of rl executed the story well enough

[azure bay]

I think I could name several things like that in RL

[vague imp]

anything but the aldous and dale's grandfather theory, we've been over that

[azure bay]

k

so tell me

what does come 1st: The Cave or Bday/Theatre?

[vague imp]

well, we know birthday took place in 1972 and the cave also took place in 1972

I just need to remember the seasons

[azure bay]

there was none mentioned in Bday

[vague imp]

oop sorry what I meant to say the date 1972 was at the beginning of the birthday game when Dale was in the elevator

[azure bay]

there was a year but no season

[vague imp]

dale's birthday was december 18 1939

[vague imp]

oh damn

that sucks

[azure bay]

we need other evidence

[vague imp]

I'll probably look back at a few games, see if I can find anything

[bright parrot]

@azure bay remember we had a convo in this channel on where is Rusty lake

And we were stuck on uniform of leonard

It was british

Maybe this was solved

[azure bay]

Why not Canadian or US?

@bright parrot

[bright parrot]

Maybe canadian

Coz mask

But he had no vest

[azure bay]

The vest is a part of the mask

Also

The mask in RL was German

[bright parrot]

Then that means

It's not british

[covert wyvern]

it could be a mistake on the devs part, it could've also been looted when a german trench was taken ¯_(ツ)_/¯

whose to say really

[bright parrot]

The vehicle is American

[covert wyvern]

the issue with that, however, is that the US didnt get involved with WW1 until 1917

[azure bay]

can you tell more about the model?

[bright parrot]

These two are the motorcycles used by americans in WW1

[bright parrot]

The camo green in Indian

[bright parrot]

And this one is harley

[azure bay]

were they available for civilians?

[bright parrot]

https://americanmotorcyclist.com/classic-bikes/1919-indian-military-powerplus/

[bright parrot]

Most probably no

They were specially made for army

And bikes were used just for races at that time

[azure bay]

were they shared with ally armies?

[bright parrot]

There were just 70,000 bikes

Including harleys

[azure bay]

do you have a direct answer or no?

everything else are speculations

[bright parrot]

I can't find a yes anywhere

Even if it's a yes

As damy said

These came in 1918-19

[azure bay]

and Prozac went public in 80s

despite Laura and Bob taking it in 60-70s

[bright parrot]

So maybe that all is just an error from devs side.
Or
Laura and Bob are not taking prozac

It maybe was something else but still why name it prozac

[azure bay]

I'm getting to a conclusion that Rusty Lake aren't good at following history

for me the decisive factor of the lake's location was the year of the chapel construction

1384 was looooong before Americas were colonized

but would the devs mess that up?

seems much bigger than American involvement in the great war

and bigger than Prozac

but at the same time we have an American military grade motorcycle

American grenade

German gasmask

well, a theory

they were just googling for references without thinking much of their origins

the aforementioned items come up among the 1st results in google images

and they seem the most clear

more detailed

higher quality of photos

[river bluff]

It could also be that their world is similar but not the same as ours. Dates of historical events could be different due to slight changes in the in-game world’s history

[bright parrot]

No it's the same

I can say this on the basis of ARG

[azure bay]

not necessarily

these are ALTERNATIVE Reality Game after all

[bright parrot]

But TWD arg was connected to the game

[azure bay]

alternative for us

[bright parrot]

What

[bright parrot]

But yeah now that I think your point may be true

It follows a basic different universe concept

That every game movie series follows

Everything is exact copy of our world except that event

[azure bay]

Our reality is the baseline

RL is the alternative reality

[bright parrot]

Just like every other game/series

For example Uncharted

Their world and history is exactly the same as ours

But that event doesn't exist here

[azure bay]

it was you telling that ARG makes you think it's our relity

but A in ARG means alternative

alternative to what?

to our reality

[bright parrot]

Yes

But

It's confusing

BKM exists in our reality

[azure bay]

it doesn't

[bright parrot]

Then why the lottery, why the prize on the name of BKM

[azure bay]

it's an alternative reality leaking in

that's how ARG's work

[bright parrot]

Ok

[carmine field]

these are features that evoke suspension of disbelief, making us part of the alternative reality

but we all know that none of that is real

[azure bay]

the lottery is real

10 guys are waiting for their tapes to continue the ARG

[carmine field]

yep, it is
I'm talking about using the BKM name on their stuff

[bright parrot]

What I believe is that

We are over analysing

[azure bay]

that's what we do and we have no idea where the line is

[weary oxide]

what is the line QAQ

[azure bay]

I didn't get your question

[weary oxide]

you said you have no idea where the line is

[azure bay]

ah, that

the line where overthinking starts

[weary oxide]

Or maybe we could start a new question, it is up to you 😄

[azure bay]

well, for starters I usually ask questions about the general timeline

for example when Caroline died or what's the chronological order of Dale's journey

but more so I like to hear out some big theories with juicy evidence

[weary oxide]

oh so you want me to share some theories?

that's quite fine. But because I am more like a team manager, the theories I shared is not completely created by myself, but by my team.

Let's begin with the one about William

In the black cube of Cube Escape: Cave, we see a corrupted soul appeared when Laura killed herself.

Commonly thinking, the corrupted soul should be Laura's.

However, Laura suicided in Fall 1971, not until Summer 1972 did Laura's corrupted soul appear

Therefore the owner of this soul have to be others. William is the most suitable one.

If you doubt why this soul could not be others', we could discuss it more detailed, but now let's go on

If William is the CS(corrupted soul), we need to explain one thing : why William's soul is in Laura's body

[floral mauve]

Summer 1971

[weary oxide]

Oh, I am talking about the Mills

[floral mauve]

[weary oxide]

If you would like to discuss about Seasons Summer, I could share my opinion on it, but now I can only say the scenes in Seasons Summer is not so reliable

#shrug

Let's move on

There are 2 explanations I wanted to talk about

The first one: It's because the mysterious ceremony of the Roots

this one is hard to challenge because no one knows actually what the ceremony is

and the 2nd one: the soul of William comes to Laura's body later

[azure bay]

You mean the ritual in the end?

[weary oxide]

yes

the ritual happened int he end of the Rootd

Roots

this one is hard to challenge, yet is also hard to back up

[azure bay]

I think the ritual is clear

William's soul wanted to live, also "10 family members, 10 sacrifices 1 rebirth" and Laura is called a reborn mind in The Cave

We've even got Samsara Room further exploring the ending of Roots

[weary oxide]

okay is my turn

what William said may based on what Mr. Crow told him

but it is possible that Mr. Crow covered something up

[azure bay]

But it's not what William is saying, it's their alchemist journal, it's Croline's and Owl's book.

[weary oxide]

in Paradox?

[azure bay]

In The Cave

[weary oxide]

that is 2nd point I'd like to say

[azure bay]

William is called the last creator of the elixir, Dale is the traveller, Aldous is the crow and Laura is the reborn mind

[weary oxide]

I know it:D

you say that the book it probably written by Mr. Owl or Caroline, so it is more like a schedule

the theory I said is based on the fact that the red book is not 100% correct

it may have some tiny error due to someone who have great power

maybe Rose, or maybe Albert

[azure bay]

I don't get the last part

[weary oxide]

oho

what's the last part you said?

[azure bay]

You mean somebody was interfering?

[weary oxide]

Sure, actually this is one of the basic foundations of the theory I am saying

[azure bay]

Do you have evidence of such influence or are you rationalising other claims?

[weary oxide]

There are some

e.g. in the end of Samsara room, the newborn baby fell into the lake while Rose have another baby in her arm

and what Sarah do in The White Door proves that the plan of Mr. Owl can be inferred

[azure bay]

I don't understand what exactly you are implying

[weary oxide]

Oh sorry

in the end of Samsara Room, when we get the baby from the crane

we need to put it on a ritual plate, right?

[azure bay]

I know what you refer to

But don't get the logic

[weary oxide]

oh

in the end of Samsara room, there are 2 babies, one fell into the lake, the other is Rose's arm

In this theory, it means there is another baby besides the reborn William

[azure bay]

With all my respect I don't think that scenario of Rose misinforming Owl is likely, if it's what exactly you mean

[weary oxide]

I hold a neutral attitude but the theory I say proves a thing

Some say that Rose have her own idea because the dance with Frank

and the blood from her body

it may have a metaphorical meaning about s*x

[azure bay]

But at the same time Rose has next to know knowledge at the time. She just helps William, she's likely not even aware that Owl exists.

[weary oxide]

So maybe she just want to ruin William's plan with the 2nd baby

[azure bay]

Ah, another thing

You should be aware of this, it seems

The devs deny Frank's parental connection to Laura

[weary oxide]

What I mean is Mr. Owl seems not so significant in Roots

[weary oxide]

this can be explained in another theory, but now let's just talk about this one

any other questions:D

[azure bay]

The importance of Laura is heavily dependant on her being William in her past life.

There is a huge parallel between Paradise and Cube Escape series. The mural of The Cave proves that Laura's cubes used to create the golden one contained William's memories of the elixir formula.

At the same time in Paradise Caroline's elixir formula results in a golden cube too and in the end she makes the elixir by extracting its elements from her memories as well

[weary oxide]

let's say it piece by piece

Firstly, where proves Laura's cubes used to create the golden one contained William's memories of the elixir formula?

[azure bay]

The mural in The Cave. The story of 2 alchemists

William makes the elixir using shapes on the shelf

He drinks it

Dies

A tree grows turning him into Laura

Laura turns into a CS

A cube floats from her

Containing the shapes William used in his elixir

There would be no sense in showing all this if it wasn't the cube we see later on in the water

All the other murals explain just as much and are all important

[weary oxide]

this is something new, I admit it

but this cube may not be the one to create golden cube

[azure bay]

Then why to bother showing it?

[weary oxide]

to show that Laura has part of William's memory

after all in the extraction procedure of Mills we don't see anything about William

only things about Laura herself

maybe the devs had not think about the Roots at that time

but this is what we see now

when we play Rusty Lake games

[azure bay]

The thing is, this series is so damn vague and has so little storytelling tools that are actually clear that it would be a waste to mislead us in notes and books.

Ok, I have nothing to add about William

[weary oxide]

sure it is

[azure bay]

When is Paradox?

[weary oxide]

so where did Caroline's elixir formula results in a golden cube too ?

[weary oxide]

My team thinks it happens in Winter 1972

before birthday and theatre

in the meanwhile of the Cave's white house part

[azure bay]

Do you have evidence ?

[weary oxide]

the hidden end of Paradox Chapter 2, the golden cube one

is just like the end of Cave

I know the bat appears in Paradox but not Cave, but since the bat appears in Cave, I assume at least there is some relevance

and the bat did not appears anywhere else

what's your idea?

[azure bay]

Here I pretty much agree

However some say that the elevator doesn't indicate the exact place of Paradox in the timeline

Like it could be right before the destination at the hotel

Anything to say on that? @weary oxide

[weary oxide]

okay that is something new

I will cite a theory from members of my team

birthday is a memory-changing event

you say Paradox happened right before Dale reaching the Hotel

so it must happened after birthday

Dale's memory about the birthday should be changed

his parents survived

but in Paradox the past, his parents stilled attacked by the Rabbit, and probably dead

this is a contracdiction

[azure bay]

Yeah, that's a good answer

Relatively recently I've heard a different idea

Or no, I'll save this one for later

1st I'll share the older one

People say that if Dale had saved his parents he wouldn't have become a homicide detective

Do you agree with the statement?

@weary oxide

[weary oxide]

I hold neutral opinion

In my opinion, the cause Dale choosing his work is not important

this is just like the question

the grandpa in birthday is on father's side or on mother' side

you may say, after altering memory in birthday, the attitude of Dale may change

but it seems not affecting the following scenes

it is a nice material for fan fiction though

[tiny kelp]

hello, i hate to barge in but i’d like to add that i believe that dale’s parents surviving happened in an alternate timeline whilst the original memory happened on the “main” timeline because since tpw, we know that there has to be multiple timelines otherwise //tpw spoilers// ||rose would have never been able to raise laura and would practically be dead for the rest of roots|| so we know that there had to have been two seperate timelines interacting with one another, so i think that in ce birthday, dale only changed his past for a seperate version of himself that exists in another timeline

[weary oxide]

I want to point out that although TPW have something in 1926

it needs things in 1984

[azure bay]

So what does it mean for the theory of branching timelines ? Or is it for some other theory?

[weary oxide]

emmm

first, the 1926 one is in a cube

just like the seasons

[azure bay]

Ok

[weary oxide]

in the 1st chapter of TPW, what we need is just communicate with a cube and help people in it

whether the 2 person are the same is not vital

[azure bay]

Agree. But what's the conclusion? There are different stances on cubes in the community

@weary oxide

[weary oxide]

I mean before chapter 2 TPW is just like birthday

the things in chapter 1 does not mean branching timelines