🤔｜theories

[carmine field]

what do you think?

[ripe flame]

I think that it's just the same art style.

But technically it can be the same place

[azure bay]

what the hell do you mean by "makes sense"??!!!

could be dead, considering one of them belonging to Laura. Or it doesn't qualify as a "hand" since it has a clear owner?

[delicate atlas]

Which one?

[azure bay]

Case 23

[delicate atlas]

Theater? Or seasons?

Which scene?

[azure bay]

exchanging a white cube for an egg

[delicate atlas]

Oh

Yeah that one is obvious

[delicate atlas]

But I mean ones like the fish tank in case 23 chapter 1

That lits the firefly on

Or the one from the cactus vase in seasons

Or the piano playing hand in theatre

[azure bay]

this one is just as weird and as helpful. The only difference, we know the owner

[delicate atlas]

Yeah

Kinda weird to think about

Dead bodies laying in random objects of someone's house

And they appear to help form time to time

[delicate atlas]

Or in public places like theater

Might be the scariest thing in rl because of how little I know about it

I also kind of thought maybe it's William but the hands are too small and thin to be his

He was a large man

[azure bay]

why would it be William?

[delicate atlas]

No reason

Just because his dead body is everywhere

Because of the grandfather clock and all that

[azure bay]

not really. Only 2 games.

[delicate atlas]

Fair

[gleaming mantle]

I don't know if this is the place to put these but here are some details I noticed in the rusty lake games

in the 3rd plague there are three flowers the colors of them seem to correlate to coralines three kids hair colors but it could just be a coincidence

in roots emma is the only other person in rusty lake that has blonde hair then laura (atleast the same type of shade) hair types are kinda important with symbolism and that they both suffer through depression (this one is pretty stupid but I'm trying lol)

[delicate atlas]

Interesting

[carmine field]

where can I find this?

[floral mauve]

good question

its fan archived

no official record

[azure bay]

no proper unofficial record either

[floral mauve]

there are

just not in Eng

[azure bay]

by proper I mean video

[floral mauve]

oh record in that sense

then no

[azure bay]

is it complete?

[floral mauve]

I seriously doubt whether half of them is cannon but tbh the devs never give much extras so I think they are cannon but not that useful

[floral mauve]

think so, unless some talked to Robin with no other witnesses

like what I did

[azure bay]

then it's likely not complete

[floral mauve]

doesnt matter tbh, they dont share much important extra infos

[azure bay]

still would appreciate translating and publishing the entire list

[floral mauve]

I did, a while ago

such as confirming Lady of the lake

[azure bay]

was it all?

[floral mauve]

yea...I think so

there were like more than 12

I wont expect tonnes

[mighty orchid]

so if rose becomes the tree in 'seasons' at the end of tpw, who is laura's mom?

[azure bay]

The short answer would be, IF Rose becomes a tree, Laura is never born.

||The Past Within ending contradicts the Roots ending, 9 of 10 CE games and the upcoming metro game.

It's not the 1st case of time travel shenanigans contradicting other games and 2 the most satisfying answers are:

• It's an altered memory, it's not real;
• It's a different timeline.

However TPW has proven that memories ARE real. So it's the timeline branching stuff.||

[plain token]

Do we know how albert got his hands on these masks.Did he make them himself like the voodoo dolls?

[real lantern]

I cant open TPW at the moment, i know this is a long shot, but does anyone have a transcript of albert's monologue at the end of the game?

[plain token]

what?

[real lantern]

I had a random thought strike me but i cant remember what albert says, so i dont know if it makes any sense lmao

[ebon aspen]

Id look for a gameplay on yt

[real lantern]

Ah well, i'l figure it out when i get home

[azure bay]

||It's you, my daughter.
It seems much time has passed.
You have brought me back to life but we're not finished yet.
We're all trapped in the cubes we have created.
[...]
The past in the future. The future in the past. A cube inside a cube.
There is a way out. To the lake where we both belong, my daughter.

If the 3 gemd are found and the golden cube is revealed in the past, look closely into the cube I hold.
Both of you press and hold the middle of the cube for 10 seconds.

The loop is broken. The gap is closed.
Time doesn't exist in the lake. The future and the past blend together.
You and the other person are the same.
You both belong to the lake now where your soul will blossom.||

[real lantern]

Oh, i forgot about this LMAO, thanks for reminding me

[void shale]

PSA ABOUT ALBERT
(im gonna explain why he's not necessarily evil here, but that doesn't mean I excuse his actions. I absolutely DO NOT condone anyone repeating or doing anything similar to what he did.

Now hear me out: Albert is not evil because there is no long term premeditation in his actions. They are much more similar to a prompt and response, in the sense that something happens to upset him and he responds in a violent way. Most of the time we see that he doesn't want to harm those he cares about (his siblings, his daughter and Ida) up until his brother marries Ida (who he's obsessed with) and then acts out in jealousy when harming them. "But he also threw Frank in a well for years and that was unprompted" yes, that's true, he did do that, but most likely that was acted out in jealousy for the sister attention. Why would he want the sisters attention? Because she was the only one kind to him in childhood. We see him in fact being mistreated by his brother (in childhood throwing rocks at him. We can only imagine that his brother picked on him on the regular as we didn't see him any punishment for his behavior), but other then that, if he ever interacted with any other children it's very likely that he was picked on because of his scar/birthmark. There is also to say that Albert was labled as "Evil" since an early age, which means that a lot of his uncanny behaviors are also probably due to the Pygmalion effect (for those who aren't familiar, it's the effect of when someone gets labeled as something, like evil, and then starts acting like the label because no matter what one does they will still be called that). In fact, we always see the others thinking of him as evil and a liar, and if we assume that he was treated like that all it's life it's not absurd to think that he started acting that way because people labled him as evil. (Also we do see him be kind whenever his daughter is around, daughter who couldn't have ever known how "evil" he was).

Besides im 100% certain mr Owl is much more evil then Alber, as he has very long term premeditation in all his acts and has harmed or caused the harm of many people

Btw, I repeat, I DO NOT CONDONE ALBERTS ACTIONS. WHAT HE DID IS INEXCUSABLE AND SHOULD NEVER BE REPEATED OR IMITATED.

[azure bay]

I disagree on Albert ever having good relationship with Emma. He accuses her of stealing his butterfly, she was the one to push him under the tree and she was laughing as loud as Sam when the bees attacked Albert, he wanted them dead back then. Both of them.
Speaking of Albert not being evil, he's repeatedly represented by the devil tarot card, 'nuff said even though others made him such.

I also disagree that Owl is evil. Yes, he's playing with fates of common people like nobody's business but everything he does isn't for his personal gain but rather some greater good. The lake needs not only the right level of water but also fresh memories. However Owl's time is limited, he needs a successor who would continue his job. Everything he does in Rusty Lake series starting from Hotel is always for that sake in one way or another.

[void shale]

Honest mistake on my part about his sister. I have a bad memory and honestly forgot about it.
About Albert being represented as the devil... it goes back to how others perceive him. It's never just a depiction given from the story and very much given by the characters in it. The only moment it isn't a character that depicts him as the devil tarot is in the post game, when it was already established that the card was meant to represent him.

Also im going to tell you that the reason you gave me is exactly WHY mr Owl is evil, imo. "Greater good" is often an excuse evil people use to get what they want. We don't know exactly what the lake being there entails. We don't exactly know what it being left to "die" means. Only mr Owl knows. It's only a "benefit" because that's what the game wants us to believe, but we can't have an informed opinion about it, we can only believe that it's positive because that's all that is told to us.
So unless we are actually shown or told what would happen WITH PROOF (and no just saying "bad things" or "world destroyed" doesn't count), i will believe that playing with people's lives to reach a goal is evil.

[azure bay]

I think Ida was impartial when she 1st arrived to Rusty Lake. Or her crystal ball for that matter.

Speaking of "greater good" as an excuse, Owl isn't shown yet to care about himself or what he wants. Then you are right about us knowing little about the lake but we know that it can cause biblical plagues which seems apocalyptic enough for me.

also there's a rumor which I consider rather trustworthy about what the devs said during Gamescom 2021

the lake needs the cubes and the cubes need the lake

and considering TPW, there's no reality, only the lake and cubes floating around it

so I wouldn't call Owl evil. Machiavellian and unethical at most

he doesn't do evil things for his personal gain, he doesn't blindly follow someone's orders, he doesn't commit evil for its sake

[void shale]

But neither do any evil people in history. They always commit evil for a superior motive.

Also about the plagues... yes, the lake produced them... but we don't know why. For all we know it could be just a natural occurrence in that part of the lake (think like the seasons irl) and the Eilanders tried sacrifice simply because they believed that would stop the plagues (we can see they already tried that with mr Owl's mother, when she was burned, but we don't know if it stopped anything, since the plagues came back).
For all we know everything that has happened, every sacrifice, everything was done to appease "the lake", but we don't even know what the lake is.
About there being nothing outside the lake and the cubes... again we are not certain about it. Still considering TPW we are following Rose who IS STILL AT THE LAKE because as Albert says || time doesn't exist in the lake || and if it did the entirety of TPW wouldn't be possible.

Yes, we see a forest with the cubes floating in it in cube escape, but that is still part of the lake. The only time we really see outside the lake is in TWD, in the guy's memory (sorry can't remember his name) but he gets sucked back in to the lake because he's connected to Laura (? I hope i remembered her name) who is a Vanderboom and, therefore, part of the lake.

Ah and, the cubed needing the lake and the lake needing the cubes is non relevant imo, because, while i might believe that as true, we still don't know what would happen if the lake "died"

[azure bay]

Only memories were stopping the plagues, not human sacrifices, they were for enlightenment. At the same time we don't witness the plagues during Owl's age.

It wasn't Albert speaking about time not existing. These were the devs speaking directly to the players.

And what's so impossible about it?

[void shale]

We don't witness the plagues during owl's age, because we are not shown them. We dont go back to that part of the lake in any other game.

Genuine mistake on my part, i only played tpw once so 🤷 but to me it looked like it was Albert saying that.

Also tpw would be impossible if not under those circumstances because || past Rose and future Rose wouldn't be able to interact if time existed in the lake ||

[azure bay]

We and other characters see that part of the lake all the time. Rusty Lake Hotel was built on that island.

[void shale]

Wait, wasn't the hotel on another island?

Genuine q

[azure bay]

"our time has come. Paradise will rise again"
*Hotel imagery*

[void shale]

Oh. Again i have bad memory and completely eliminated that from my brain.

Still, going back to the og discourse i still don't believe Albert is Evil (i do believe that he's fucked up and violent) as none of the characters in the RL universe are (I mostly used mr Owl as an "evil" example because he reflects more of what i think of as evil, aka premeditated bad actions) (sorry if this wasn't clear)

For whether the "greater good" mr owl wants to achieve is actually for the best or not, we will have to see as we don't have nearly enough context imo 🤷

[azure bay]

If cubes are the reality and cubes need the lake, I consider preserving the lake a noble goal

Even if it's unclear and uncertain, at face value that elevates probability of Owl doing a good thing on the grand scheme

As soon as I get something contradicting that I'll reconsider everything

[void shale]

Fair enough.
The same goes for me tbh

[real lantern]

Ok, i took a bit to mature my idea, but here goes

So, ||as i see it the part we're seeing in the future never actualy happened in real life, because in the game we never actualy get to the year where the future happens, its a sort of "idealized" perfect future where everything went right and albert was reborn, and albert's now in the past which is actualy present, corrupted soul albert and rose will use the golden cube and the lake to take albert out of this cube somehow, thats why the golden cubes are the key to the future, because you can sort of "shape" a possible future inside the cube||

[azure bay]

I think it's the contrary. The future is primary here. Because unlike in The Past its ending doesn't contradict the canon

||If Rose escapes the cube from the past||, Laura is never born, never dies, Dale never starts case 23, nothing happens

Plus, ||the future exists and interacts with the past before the golden cube is created||

[pearl seal]

||couldn't have the events of the past within have caused a different branch in time?||

||considering that what rose did needed her to wait until the future that means the original timeline had the events of rusty lake happen. But when Rose did what she did it caused a new alternative branch||

||I sense that this is what the games imply with two "paths" being the butterfly and the bee||

[azure bay]

I think it's not only the events of TPW but every other game dealing with cubes

[pearl seal]

I suppose that's right

[plain token]

Did rose give birth to laura in the “normal way” or was she made from all the sacrifice combined?

[azure bay]

if she was a frankenstein monster she wouldn't be blond

[plain token]

that’s not what i meant

[azure bay]

Rose was kept locked inside a clock while its hands were running forwards

I think it was legit birth

[plain token]

yea

What i’m saying is:did the roots suck all the sacrifices and helped rose give birth or did cousin frank help /j

[azure bay]

I seem to remember the devs denying any form of incest in their games

[plain token]

incest?

[high talon]

Its when a brother and sister love eachother a little too much

[plain token]

yea it was a joke

[azure bay]

It's becoming cloudy. Might be a banhammer rain

[plain token]

that’s what i put /j for

[azure bay]

I'll go find a shelter

[high talon]

didnt eve see that /j part ngl; but enough of that go on

[plain token]

so was it just a regular birth or did the sacrifices help?

[azure bay]

it was both

sacrifices purified the soul, Rose gave it a vessel

[plain token]

ok,thanks

[viscid pecan]

does someone know what is this time for

[azure bay]

the image is a direct reuse from RL Hotel

[covert wyvern]

iirc its for an achievement in mill?

or that

lol

[viscid pecan]

oh i didn't play hotel soo yea...

thanks

[untold roost]

Hey guys, I just thought that after 16 games, we still haven’t figured out who Harvey is right? Like who was he before he became a humanoid parrot
And Mr.Bat as well like we see in RL Hotel like who is he?
So just my thought or I may have missed something

[ebon aspen]

No clues on harvey, mr bat or mr toad, yeah

Like, concrete and failproof ones

[untold roost]

Ah yes, mr toad as well, would be nice to have their backstories uncovered in future games

[azure bay]

We saw Harvey as a parrot in Paradise

And, according to rumors about gamescom 2021 Q&A, he is ancient

Also these rumors say that Bat & Toad used to be humans before working for Owl

At some point I was struggling to find the original witness of this statement.

Was it you after all?

About Harv being ancient

[covert wyvern]

Twas me

I was there

[untold roost]

Wow I hope we get to know more about these characters

[covert wyvern]

I'm sure we will!

[covert wyvern]

that's not relevant to Rusty Lake.

[azure bay]

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

that's fishy

does it mean that enlightenment for a CS means becoming a human?

[ebon aspen]

Welp, i always kinda took enlightenment as ascending to a higher samsara state

[floral mauve]

Well, I said before enlightenment is quite general

[floral mauve]

Like this

[ebon aspen]

We do usually use enlightenment as the word for reaching the final state, but ig it depends on the perspectives

[floral mauve]

Usually is human to asura

[azure bay]

with Dale as an exception

[floral mauve]

But tbh I believe any ascension is a sort of enlightenment

[surreal forge]

Hey so here’s one of my theories: Hello internet! Welcome to RL theory! Today we’ll be talking abt the blonde haired woman, one of the many chars in the RL universe… my theory states that the woman, is a spirit who haunts the player along the games… since she appears in almost every game and dies in case 23 (which is also one of the cube escape games that take place in the farthest time I think) my guess is that she’s haunting the detective who tried to solve her case and therefore (since the detective is us) she has been in multiple RL games, I don’t really know if this is a good theory if you have any ideas to it please let me know!

[delicate atlas]

Do you mean the songstress?

Or do you mean the blonde lady?

[azure bay]

have you played Paradice?

[carmine field]

as far as I know, the blonde lady is never mentioned as the Lady of the Lake

which games have you already played?

[floral mauve]

I think its either in a dev q&a or steam trading card

dont remember which one

[carmine field]

ohhh thanks

nice find

since there are at least two more Ladies of the Lake in the series without being apparently related, I think "Lady of the Lake" might be more of a title than anything else

[covert wyvern]

im inclined to agree with that assumption

[floral mauve]

could be

or female chosen one sort of thing but dunno the case of pheasant

[carmine field]

It reminds me of the role of Ruler of the Lake in a certain way

||some consider that Jakob merged with Caroline (a Lady of the Lake) upon achieving enlightenment||
||and Laura was needed for Dale's enlightenment as well||

idk

[azure bay]

If I didn't know better, I'd be sure it refers to the chapter name, not the character

[covert wyvern]

O honestly thats a fair assumption too!

[surreal forge]

i have played almost all the cube escapes, and in theater she is mentioned as the lady of the lake

[carmine field]

oh true!! the songtress appeared in that scene

[azure bay]

I agree on the cases being very similar but that disproves Jakob and Caroline merging. Since Laura isn't merged with Dale in Seasons

[surreal forge]

no, i have not..,

[azure bay]

you should play. And compare portraits

[surreal forge]

it costs money

im broke

[carmine field]

actually not, the "Lady of the Lake" is the show of that songtress at the start

[surreal forge]

i spent all my money on tpw

[surreal forge]

ooooh

i will go and edit that

[azure bay]

could also be her stage name

[carmine field]

The blonde lady's show is named "Remember the seasons" I guess

[azure bay]

correct

but initially the songstress was to play her as well

[surreal forge]

but is my theory good?

i know its not possible

[carmine field]

Have you played roots?

[surreal forge]

IT COSTS MONEY

sorry for caps

but no i haven't cuz it costs money in my country'

[azure bay]

what are the criteria of good?

[surreal forge]

and im broke

[surreal forge]

could it be true

[azure bay]

there are ghosts

and she became one indeed

[floral mauve]

double checked the q&a history

Caroline and Laura are confirmed ones for lady of the lake

by Robin (I think)

[azure bay]

however all of them look like shadows with white glowing eyes

[carmine field]

where I can see that?

[floral mauve]

its like fan archives

[carmine field]

nice!

[floral mauve]

no official record sadly

[carmine field]

is there any way I can access these fan archives?

[azure bay]

If that's what I think it is, technically you can

but you wouldn't be able to read that

[carmine field]

How did this Q&A work?

[azure bay]

it was a live online event

that nobody recorded in its entirety

@covert wyvern I need a little confirmation on your behalf

[covert wyvern]

Well Ill try my best!

depending on what you need from me lmao

[azure bay]

same thing. Harvey being ancient. Give me a moment

So apparently that Q&A fragment was recorded

[covert wyvern]

O was it?

[floral mauve]

I forgot to share the list with nowhere, my bad

[azure bay]

Is the following question what you witnessed?

Q: What's the connection between Harvey and Paradise?
A: Harvey is an old character that knows many other characters.

or did they deliberately use the "ancient" word?

[covert wyvern]

I personally remember the answer being along the lines of "harvey being quite ancient" but truthfully I can be misremembering

I know clearly that they have no plans of revisiting the chapel bc that's what I asked lmao

so like if you mention that recording i'd truthfully believe that over my word.

[azure bay]

there is a question about the chapel indeed

so they were asked during the same session, you say?

[floral mauve]

(I never said it aint possible, plus Damy was there probably the entire duration)

[covert wyvern]

I believe there was only the one session?

I shouldve been there for the entire duration yeah

modding duties take me many places!!

[azure bay]

Stray says he asked his own question nobody else recorded

[floral mauve]

yep

I was surpirsed

because I was afk at RL booth camping

out of the scheduled time

[covert wyvern]

ah it wouldnt be unlikely I missed that

[floral mauve]

basically for 12 hours or so

[covert wyvern]

I was there for the scheduled time

[floral mauve]

then Robin just poped in

out of nowhere

[azure bay]

pun unintended

[floral mauve]

so I asked him 3 questions and he gave me some sort of response

I am happy

me professional camper

[azure bay]

ok, I think the case is closed

[floral mauve]

case 23

@azure bay u happy now?

[azure bay]

I think I am

"Harvey is ancient" seems busted until proved by the mammoth

[floral mauve]

tbh I had no idea where it came from

[azure bay]

it came from Damy

[floral mauve]

I looked up the discord history

you are the one who mentioned it first I think?

[azure bay]

it was Damy, then I forgot it was him, then we struggled to find his message, then we left it alone and only recently I did find it

[floral mauve]

hopefully

[azure bay]

it's a shame they didn't organize the same during session the recent year

[covert wyvern]

well I mean they were probably too busy being at actual gamescon

[azure bay]

sure they were

[floral mauve]

I think some might be better leave in a mystery

[azure bay]

I'd left it for them to decide :з

[floral mauve]

plus mammoth game and metro are gonna come out hopefully

[azure bay]

I'm sure they will

[floral mauve]

so some questions might be solved in game

better than a q&a

I didnt know that my question actually got answered in tpw

I mean nowhere's

[azure bay]

for me, Q&A exists mostly to clarify the topics left behind

[floral mauve]

Do the white & black cubes define the reality? lmao

[azure bay]

like Frank's and Leonard's fate

many think they died

some think they didn't cause it wasn't mentioned in William's papers

[floral mauve]

thats the sad part

perhaps an extra novel may explain those (they mentioned it in 2018 q&a)

[azure bay]

but at the same time we have "The Last Dance" and some organ of Leonard in Paradox marked with the year Laura was born

[azure bay]

novel?

[floral mauve]

like u know those extra detailed behind story such as fnaf ones

though since its 2018 I guess they dont have time for those

[azure bay]

or money

The comic book was the best merch ever

[floral mauve]

I thought paradox comics were selling great

[azure bay]

maybe not enough to cover the costs

[floral mauve]

thats sad

[covert wyvern]

or it was a limited print:)

either way I agree they're probably the best merch piece, but I digress that isnt very theory of me

[azure bay]

a fan fact

that detail about Leonard's part in Paradox movie is much more noticeable in the comic book form

[floral mauve]

AH HA, I got a confirmation from 2019 q&a, Crow knows how to do multiple voices, it was just his talent

he knows what to do

I was so tired of ppl saying he was corrupted so he knows how to speak like CS

[azure bay]

may I have a precise quote?

mouth being sewed is a more interesting explanation imo

if it's not canon, it's canon's problem

[floral mauve]

no q&a for that yet

[azure bay]

@red yew here's the last official timeline

And here's a more complete version by me

why did you place The Cave after Birthday and Theatre?

[ebon aspen]

Kinda makes sense since dale got out of the memory machine or whatever in cave's ending

[azure bay]

but it doesn't if you dig deeper

[ebon aspen]

In which sense?

[azure bay]

The Cave is Dale at the bottom of the lake

Owl says, his journey is about to start

Dale stands up, flickering between human and corrupted state, gets into the elevator and starts his journey upwards

Birthday and Theatre: Dale is still riding upwards and still flickering between human and corrupted state

Destination: Hotel

[fierce beacon]

in case 23 he goes down in the elevator

[azure bay]

yes and in The Cave we see a mural of him finally reaching the bottom and walking into the cube where another elevator awaits for him

[ebon aspen]

So its like a dream in which you spend days in the fantasy world in a matter of minutes in the real world?

[azure bay]

what are you talking about?

[ebon aspen]

Bc i doubt dale would be able to visit his memories without using the machine

[azure bay]

they are floating around the lake. In a cube form. They were there before he was connected to the machine, they are there after. And he just enters them. Or at least his mind does

[ebon aspen]

I always got cave's end as dale, after going thru his memories, finally starting to put owl's plans into motion making use of laura's stuff

His "journey finally starting" felt like that for me, i cant really see owl giving him a golden cube with him still green in the memories biz

Anyway, i need to replay the games so my memory does can be fuzzy

[azure bay]

Paradox, on the other hand, takes place while Dale is connected

he's not green

[fierce beacon]

idk much but if the cubes go into the lake, say they dissolved or were absorbed, what would happen hypothetically if you were to eat a cube? please dont take me seriously (:

[ebon aspen]

Youd have indigestion

[azure bay]

they aren't dissolved not absorbed. The lake preserves the cubes

[fierce beacon]

oh

so theres just cubes in the lake

[azure bay]

yes

[fierce beacon]

like the dish in dumbledores office

u put memories in there and stick ur face in it to see them

[azure bay]

not quite but close

[fierce beacon]

i forgot the name

cool

[azure bay]

the difference is, you can live inside cubes and change what happens inside them

they are copies of the reality

and the reality is a cube too

so there's not much difference

[fierce beacon]

oh right so if u entered a past cube and changed what occurs would it affect the time/space/present/future science stuff

[azure bay]

these changes seem to be exclusive for the cube's interior

otherwise Seasons decanonizes Dale's journey that came out after it

[fierce beacon]

ohk

[carmine field]

this version is amazing

it makes sense for me

what a hard work

[azure bay]

Of course it's amazing!!! It's made by me! /jk

jokes aside, thank you

planning on updating it after the metro game comes out (especially if a game after that is much further away from being released)

[carmine field]

metro game? that one from the arg?

[azure bay]

well, 1st teasers predate the ARG

but yeah

the most promising one was in Best Kept Memory archives

[carmine field]

are you going to add that slide of albert building the cubical device? I consider it occurs in 1926 because of the letters

[azure bay]

not sure. Maybe? Usually I tend to add the things that occupy the entire screen e.g. levels and scenes

And it's 1925 since he was working for "a couple of months" and finished in January 1926

[carmine field]

oh yeah

You're right

[untold roost]

Im sorry what metro game is that?

[covert wyvern]

its the new game in development atm.

[azure bay]

One: https://blog.rustylake.com/7-years-of-rusty-lake/

Two: https://blog.rustylake.com/a-new-train-arrives/

Three: || https://youtu.be/ejEuP1vSiUQ ||

@untold roost

[carmine field]

off topic
I just remembered a version of the Rusty Lake painting from Johan Scherft with Rose, Leonard and Frank, and the animal corrupted souls wandering around, implying they coexist.
Is it possible that a Vanderboom met one of the corrupted souls?

at least after Laura's birth

[azure bay]

Rose has clearly left the lake

and we don't know if the others are even alive

but before Laura's birth, maybe? However dunno how they would survive such an encounter

[carmine field]

William was meant to protect Rose, Leonard and Frank in order to be reborn, as they needed to wear the timepieces

[azure bay]

good point

[carmine field]

Idk if the same can be applied to the rest of the family, but both Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl could be preventing the corrupted souls from meeting the Vanderbooms until William was reborn

[carmine field]

ah... is that where the mammoth came from?

[azure bay]

nope

it just reassured us it's still a thing after so many years

the original appearance was in the Paradox x-mas puzzle video

[carmine field]

lmao

[bright parrot]

If Ida could see future that means

She already know what was gonna happen

And she still did it

[azure bay]

likely so

unless there's a trope "I don't remember my prophecies because I was possessed"

[bright parrot]

Also
Rose is more of Ida than Leonard

[azure bay]

you mean Albert?

[bright parrot]

Possessed by who

[azure bay]

just trance

[bright parrot]

Sorry for my grammatical error.

Rose and Leonard are half siblings but rose is more like ida whereas Leonard is more like samuel

[azure bay]

honestly, Leonard is most like James

[bright parrot]

Another question is How and Why Ida came to Lake.

Coz Ida is the only outsider we've seen

[azure bay]

If I were to use common sense, I'd say she's got there by carriage carried by a horse or some other animal just as a wandering fortune teller routine

to raise some money

[bright parrot]

It was her destiny (maybe)

But there is something more to ida

[azure bay]

James was an outsider

Jakob was in a sense

[bright parrot]

James was vanderboom

[azure bay]

and so?

[bright parrot]

And he came back like he was there then he left and then came back

Mary was outsider

[azure bay]

you are assuming he lived there before, but why?

[bright parrot]

And her appearance is also sus

[bright parrot]

James was familiar with place
Also gut feeling

[azure bay]

why so sure?

we also have Kirsten Hoorn

so I state that the lake isn't some kind of space anomaly that outsiders can't reach

it's just an insignificant place in the wilderness

that is enough to justify Dale not being able to locate it

[bright parrot]

Dale went to Laura's house
Then his office
Then chapel (By teleportation).
And then cabin at last (Which I believe is related to RL hotel)

So where was Laura living

[azure bay]

clearly away from the lake

[bright parrot]

I believe She was living in the city

She met bob

[azure bay]

clearly in Dale's city

[bright parrot]

So that confirms

Dale never went to lake

(Voluntary)

[azure bay]

his wording in Case 23 confirms that

[bright parrot]

He was taken there

[azure bay]

he didn't even know what it was

he's been trying to locate it for long months

he felt victorious after finally getting there

[bright parrot]

Which one

[bright parrot]

He did not know about the directions
Both (to chapel and from chapel to lake)

He just knew about the place

[azure bay]

read the 3rd screenshot

initially he knew nothing

[bright parrot]

Yes

He found about this in Laura's room

Dale didn't knew about RL before Laura's case

And maybe Laura was doing same thing Dale is doing

[azure bay]

I don't think she was

[bright parrot]

She had a file

About RL evidences

[azure bay]

it was an archive of photos

she likely took those pictures herself during her trip

[bright parrot]

That can be true

But the point is dale don't know the directions to the lake

Because

1.) There is no evidence of him finding the directions to the lake

2.) He was always taken by someone else in lake

[azure bay]

so what's the problem with other people finding it?

[bright parrot]

It raises questions

If people know about RL

Then why is it less crowded

And why it was a breakthrough moment for dale to find the lake then

[azure bay]

because it's an insignificant place in the middle of nowhere in another country?

[bright parrot]

Maybe

Maybe that's why it is hard to reach

[azure bay]

I'm sure about the last past

Dale is in US, considering his job, his car and other minor details

the chapel has no way being in America

[bright parrot]

But his last name sounds dutch

[bright parrot]

Chapel looks swiss to me
That typical chapel in meadow

[azure bay]

his last name is an Americanized version

[bright parrot]

Are they immigrants

[azure bay]

I think so

[bright parrot]

That's even better

[azure bay]

did the Swiss participate in WW1?

[bright parrot]

It says no on google

Maybe Germany or Belgium

[azure bay]

English soldiers were know for wearing brody helmets during WW1

apparently so were Belgians

[bright parrot]

So were americans

[azure bay]

we've already ruled them out

[bright parrot]

Yup

[azure bay]

on the further inspection, not quite the same as Leonard's

[bright parrot]

It can be Netherlands

[azure bay]

it can't be

[bright parrot]

Devs are from Netherlands

[azure bay]

there's no mountains

like at all

[bright parrot]

In game or in Netherlands

[azure bay]

in game we have a ton of mountains

[covert wyvern]

yeah theres no way the location is hte netherlands

ive seen most of it!

[bright parrot]

It's in Europe that's for sure

[azure bay]

the chapel + brody helm narrow our options down to Britain

[bright parrot]

Then that makes vanderbooms immigrants too

[azure bay]

problems?

[bright parrot]

Vanderboom is dutch last name

And if RL is in Britain

Then that would make Vanderbooms immigrants

[azure bay]

do you have problems with that?

[bright parrot]

And that may explain where james came from

[covert wyvern]

it being stuck together and not two words does point and them being around for a while

maybe the first vanderbooms are immigratns yeah but hardly matters if you ask me lol

[bright parrot]

Yup just filling gaps:)

[covert wyvern]

ah fair enough

[bright parrot]

Also James had an English bulldog
Native to England in that time

[azure bay]

some fill it in a way that Aldous was a neglectful father that left his son and then used him to resurrect William

[bright parrot]

I still doubt crow's intentions

He's doing everything

Resurrecting william

Helping Owl

Helping Dale

Corrupting Laura

[azure bay]

that was not intentional

[bright parrot]

Yes

I believe that crow is a hidden mastermind

And is trying to gain power

Either by gaining power

Or by gaining trust of power holder

[azure bay]

you mean betraying him?

[bright parrot]

He will be ally to all of them till someone holds absolute power

[bright parrot]

He may not betray (directly atleast) till his path to victory is not clear

[azure bay]

Most of things that Crow does is done for Owl

[bright parrot]

Because Owl holds power

Also are Owl and William

(What's the word)

Enemy

[azure bay]

you are overthinking things

[bright parrot]

Yup

[azure bay]

Aldous and William were both working for Owl

[bright parrot]

How is william working for owl

[bright parrot]

That explains how they got hands on elixir

[azure bay]

RL MH&F program as well as Caroline's elixir formula are written under their names in the book in Paradox movie

Crow helping out seemingly wasn't beneficial for Owl initially

He likely did so because they agreed to

the other helps the less lucky one to resurrect

later on William's memories within Laura became the only source of new elixir

[carmine field]

this?

[azure bay]

this

[carmine field]

I didn't know how to decrypt it

but yeah

it's clearly written their names

[high talon]

my hungry self thinking the cube is made out chocolate

[azure bay]

there was one

but that doesn't directly help our cause

[high talon]

what a chocolate cube?

[carmine field]

also, what 2604 stands for?

[azure bay]

just a number you need for an achievement

[carmine field]

I see

[red yew]

Thank you

[red yew]

No reason really, i just put the 3 together

[azure bay]

timeline-wise The Cave takes place before them

[red yew]

Thanks pal

[plain token]

I still don’t understand why albert wanted to get rid of Frank.Have i missed something?

[floral mauve]

I believe the initial reason was to torture Emma

[delicate atlas]

Just to miss with Emma

[floral mauve]

then ehm, he knows about the chess game probably

[plain token]

sooo no actual reason

[floral mauve]

wdym

[azure bay]

We don't know how he knows and since when

[floral mauve]

according to his hair when he built the machine I would say pretty early

[plain token]

he threw him in a well just to mess with Emma

[floral mauve]

but apparently he didnt tell Rose maybe because he didnt want to worry her

so Rose still freed Frank

and then

yea

[azure bay]

I'd say, the reason is unknown and may turn out disappointing

[plain token]

that’s not the point

[floral mauve]

I already said the point

I was answering nowhere

[azure bay]

Likely so

[plain token]

if let’s say , he just hated children he would have got rid of leonard as well,right.No!Rose doesn’t count

[floral mauve]

bruh

[plain token]

?

[floral mauve]

I think its better saying he hates his siblings

and which leads to hating all offsprings

[plain token]

i guess

so

[floral mauve]

and revenges

the most simple and straightforward answer

[plain token]

I think he would have tried to get rid of leonard then ,because samuel stole ida from him

[floral mauve]

maybe but tbh I have little idea how Leo grew up

also dont forget about Ida

maybe u know, half Ida saved him

[plain token]

well he went to war

[azure bay]

That would lead to nothing since he's already found another way to get even

[floral mauve]

there is a gap in between he became an orphan and go to war

I wonder what happened

[plain token]

so in conclusion albert hates everyone

[floral mauve]

did he go to a RL social welfare office ran by Owl

[floral mauve]

yep

[azure bay]

He doesn't hate Rose and his relashionship with Leo is unknown

[plain token]

well yes

[floral mauve]

perhaps the grumpy uncle did raise Leo

there is always a chance

[plain token]

he’s the closest we’re going to get to a grumpy uncle

[floral mauve]

and Albert technically would have custody for Leo

I would say its like a Harry Potter situation if u know what I mean.. ehm

[plain token]

Pretty irrelevant but ,could someone explain this to me?

[azure bay]

Voodoo magic using dolls. What to explain here?

[plain token]

how james’ whole body hasn’t caught on fire and how ida is perfectly cool with her chest being pierced by a giant stick( now that i think about it how did the stick even appaer?)

i know albert used voodoo dolls

[floral mauve]

James

[azure bay]

They were possessed by voodoo and couldn't move. however if you click on them, they scream in terror inside their heads even before Albert started torturing them

[plain token]

so they have zero control

but,does the voodoo magic protect james’ body from the flames?

[azure bay]

2 possible reasons:

1. Albert set on fire only certain bodyparts of the doll
2. Scorching Samuel would be too graphic

[plain token]

i have no idea how voodoo works but i know that if you had even a little spark on your head,it would light all up

[azure bay]

We saw 3 little flames on the doll, we saw 3 little flames on Samuel

[floral mauve]

I dont think u should apply real world science into all RL world stuff

[plain token]

your’re right

voodoo defies every last bit of science so i don’t think i should be questioning about the fire

[azure bay]

So does alchemy

So does samsara

So does Rusty Lake as a whole, as I think about it

A bit offtop but if magic was real, science would definitely stufy and research it

[real lantern]

I mean, alchemy is just trying to mix science and magic, but sadly one of the ingredients to this soup doesnt exist

[floral mauve]

soup

[azure bay]

I disageee. Mixing substances with spiritual meaning isn't even close to chemistry

[floral mauve]

legendary Mendeleev

[real lantern]

Well, its more of a "oh look, i mixed this shiny rock with a bit of this ouchy liquid and it exploded, must be magic!"

[floral mauve]

dark magic

burn the witch

[azure bay]

🔥

[real lantern]

Anyhoop, we're getting off-topic, hows about them lakes!?

[floral mauve]

I think Caroline is witch

or intentionally

portraited as

[azure bay]

I've just understood what Caroline and Laura had in common

[floral mauve]

woman

[azure bay]

Well, also that. We've never heard of The Lord of The Lake. Such sexism

[floral mauve]

innovative female scientists sounds better

[azure bay]

But I was thinking about the elixir knowledge

[floral mauve]

bruh I thought u gonna enlighten us

[azure bay]

Both Laura and Caroline had knowledge about the elixir creation. Isn't it enlightening?

[floral mauve]

...no?

I thought u find some relations that I didnt know about

In my initial interpretation of the name Lady of the lake

I thought that they have the knowledge or potential over the lake and elixir and could negotiate or communicate with the lake

so basically yea

[stone bramble]

prob not the ENTIRE reason but I think its because emma took albert's butterfly away from him when they were kids so albert took her son lmao

just revenge stuff

[azure bay]

their childhood rivalry went beyond the butterfly

the bee incident mangling his face for the entire life, mind you

[stone bramble]

yee of course it was deffo more than just that but what we got/seen in the story frank being trapped in the well parrels to the butterfly in the jar

[azure bay]

a bit too fetched to my liking. Looks petty

[plain token]

RIGHT! I forgot about that

[plain token]

i’ve said once and i’ll say it again albert is so dramatic about his childhood (if that’s the case)

[azure bay]

welp, his life was ruined :з

[plain token]

👌

[azure bay]

doomed to loneliness

[plain token]

hell it’s even refrenced in tpw there he says:”i once caught a butterfly as a child.It was my but my sister stole it”
NO SHE DIDN’T!You just raised your hand in chance of catching it and it just flew into emma’s jar. How is that considered stealing?!

[azure bay]

I tend to take notes more literally than pantomimes

[plain token]

excuse me?

[azure bay]

I deem the written lore bits more serious than poorly animated ones

[plain token]

well in that case,”stealing” his butterfly is true but,come on he didn’t even try

[azure bay]

you mean we didn't see him trying, don't you?

[plain token]

you mean that it’s a difference of perspective?

[azure bay]

I mean the scene was poorly animated and in different media would probably be presented differently

[plain token]

He didn’t even catch it but i think you’re right

[azure bay]

he did on TPW photo

[plain token]

not in roots tho

The man build the cubical device,photoshoping that butterfly into his hand would be a piece a cake /j

[azure bay]

the computer version was built by Rose

[plain token]

it was a joke but, cool i didn’t know that

[azure bay]

I knew it was a joke, I presumed you didn't know

[plain token]

whereis that meantion

[azure bay]

the respective steam card

[plain token]

hmmm interesting

[azure bay]

and speaking of Roots

[plain token]

yes

[azure bay]

my point I'm trying to convey is that the games aren't extremely reliable

[plain token]

I got your point

[azure bay]

there are technical limitations, there's gameplay, there are artistic choices

also time limitations

the most indicative case is Paradox

we've got both a game and a movie

[plain token]

i know…
I’making assumptions from what the games provides

[azure bay]

we all do that

[plain token]

not always accurate

[azure bay]

but thanks to TPW we've got another perspective

[plain token]

yea

[azure bay]

and I find it more reliable due to combination of text and image

[plain token]

That’s better than just trustying th animation i guess

[azure bay]

I can share a timeline map

there was a timeline on Reddit written by my friend but I find it subjective

there is one on the wiki less subjective

there was RazJaz on youtube who covered the earliest installments

but he was dead recently

slowly but surely I make my own series of video essays. However the order is narrative rather than chronological

[carmine field]

wait, did RazzJazz pass away?

[azure bay]

figuratively speaking

[carmine field]

ohh that scared me

XD

[azure bay]

when I talked to him he was going to make a TPW playthrough with his friend after it's released

something went wrong?

[carmine field]

he's been inactive for almost two years, I hope he's fine

Did he comment anything on his social media?

[azure bay]

he didn't, I guess?

[azure bay]

does anyone know these characters?

[covert wyvern]

yeah the one on the right is "Jan Klaassen"

the one on the left is probably his wife "Katrijn"

I remember them from my youth

[azure bay]

thx for the insight

[covert wyvern]

of course:)

[vague imp]

You guys know how there's that fish with legs?

[azure bay]

what do u mean by how?

[vague imp]

I mean, you guys know the fact that there's that fish with legs in some of the rusty lake games

[azure bay]

well, one of them is very hard to miss

so I think people know

[vague imp]

Have you played cube escape paradox?

[azure bay]

of course

[vague imp]

Remember how when Mr owl asks to be shown his future, his head turns into a fish?

[azure bay]

that's a different thing

it means that Owl will eventually be reborn as a fish

[vague imp]

How do you know?

[azure bay]

1. the series is about rebirths
2. Owl's past is Jakob, he died and was reborn as Owl's present. The fish is his future

[vague imp]

Okay

[bright parrot]

I have an opinion on Harvey's box.

Whatever happened in Harvey's box. Was not what it seemed.
Everything is normal but it feels weird coz its from bird's perspective

[azure bay]

I'd say this bird acts more rationally than its owner

the only questionable thing is the cactus fruit

the rest of the plot seems legit

[bright parrot]

Fish with legs

[bright parrot]

This too

[azure bay]

this is not the plot

[bright parrot]

But the fish with legs is important

And I believe that it is owl

[azure bay]

is it?

[azure bay]

it's NOT owl

[bright parrot]

Why

[azure bay]

because he's alive

and he becomes a fish in his next life

[bright parrot]

Yup.

And that's why I am confused

[azure bay]

this is just a mermaid

such creatures inhabit the lake

we don't even know if Owl is meant to become a mermaid or a regular fish

[bright parrot]

1st its a reverse typicall mermaid
2nd What is mermaid doing in box.
3rd The reason I believe that fish is owl because fish is next to crow

[bright parrot]

How do you know

[azure bay]

1. that doesn't matter

2. what is Crow doing in the box?

3. I think Crow, the glass and the mermaid are 1 big reference to Magritte

4. We can find a mermaid in The Cave

[vague imp]

Does anyone have any theories on Ida? She's one of the few instances where supernatural stuff is not directly tied to the lake. Also, she chooses to marry into the vanderboom family despite knowing the danger. It seems like she knows something that the rest of the characters don't

[azure bay]

Theories require clues. We have next to none on Ida. She seems to be just a fatalist

[vague maple]

So I was replaying the games and they have been hinting to the ||golden cube|| for a while

[azure bay]

Are u able to understand what this scheme means?

[vague maple]

I feel like this was planned way back judging by how far back Rose's dad started making the box my question is who found the lake

He must have had help

[azure bay]

Albert's journey and the one of Owl aren't obviously related

They aren't affiliated at all

[vague maple]

They both use the memory cubes

They could be connected a bit

Maybe owl was the reason Albert found out about this cube stuff

[azure bay]

Albert mostly follows the journals of his alchemist granduncles. Both were working for Owl and one of them still does. But Albert doesn't seem to know Mr. Crow personally

[vague maple]

And owl has interacted with albert family

[azure bay]

It was Crow and his dead brother. They used said family to reborn the latter

[vague maple]

You must have played the payed games so I'm going to trust your word

I dont have the money to

[azure bay]

You can find this information in The Cave

It's a bit hidden but it's there

[vague maple]

Oh

[distant bay]

O fantasma quer matar todo mundo porcausa do remédio, esqueci o nome, mas na verdade, o protagonista acha que está alucinado, mas é rela

Translate

[real lantern]

Please keep the main rusty lake chats in english, but feel free to share any theories in portuguese over in #🌐｜canal-português !

[distant bay]

The ghost wants to kill everyone because of the medicine, I forgot the name, but in fact, the protagonist thinks he's hallucinating, but it's real.

better?

haha ha

[real lantern]

Yep haha

[ebon aspen]

Have you played just seasons?

[distant bay]

No, i'm just platinuming all of them, but i'm having trouble with harvey's box

[azure bay]

The question was rather about the games u r basing your theory on

[plain token]

Does ce cave take place in the same place where the vanderboom brothers made the elixir?

[azure bay]

no, it's a bit closer to the lake itself
the lab was directly under the tree
and the cave was under the rocks a bit in a distance

[plain token]

how come that the dog was there?

[azure bay]

not sure

at Rose left the lake at some point

[plain token]

alright

and she left the dog in a random cave?

[azure bay]

either she left it behind and Owl's crew adopted it or just stole it

[plain token]

Makes sense consedering there is a submarine there

(the second theory)

[azure bay]

I don't think Rose would left it in the cave

but if they were to adopt it I see no problem to bring it there anyway

[plain token]

yea

[final atlas]

There are any easter egg in some coordinates in cetc (Cube Escape the cave)?

[azure bay]

yep

[final atlas]

'cause i did find one (an easter egg relating to rusty lake paradise)but i don't remember the coordinates

[azure bay]

If I remember it correctly, it's the upper right corner

at the very bottom of the forest

I also think they are mentioned on wiki

[final atlas]

Thanks, i will search then

[final atlas]

I have found it!

[prime vortex]

Hey, just wanted to ask a quick question... do any of yall have explanations/theories as to how we (william) in RL Roots are ||able to save Leonard? It seems as though we are able to give him a gas mask and therefore change his past by altering his memories/flashbacks?|| (spoiler for Roots) The only way I thought possible to alter the past was with a blue cube... any ideas? @terse estuary brought this question up and I wanted to see if anyone knew

[high talon]

That is a good question since let's be honest a gas mask would save you from mustard gas but the explosion would still tear you to shreds, perhaps Leonard's brain just imagined the whole incident n he lost his leg in another way (trench foot maybe)

[azure bay]

@prime vortex @high talon technically the grenade that took his leg was a gasnade.

Speaking of blue cubes, they don't alter the past directly, they just let you go back and forth in time. However since recently the memory cubes seem to contain timelines and don't affect the one you come from.

So 2 possibilities:

1. William switched timeline. But I don't really believe that since there would be 2 Williams, it seems. (unless it's just your mind that travels occupying your variant's body)

2. The change wasn't retroactive since, according to the 1st flashback, William was already there in the beginning, and Leo wouldn't likely survive the battle without a mask to be taken home. The chapter takes place not in an infirmary but at Vanderboom's workshop.

[high talon]

we honestly have 3 options

[azure bay]

what was used in MK II gas grenades?

[high talon]

doesnt say?

also how do you know it was a 'MK II gas grenade' specifically?

i dont recall there ever being writing on it

[azure bay]

a distinctive look

[high talon]

could've been a artistic liberty tho?

i mean its kinda of a tiny detail

[azure bay]

They used a specific design to depict their grenade

[high talon]

hmmm

[azure bay]

KJ MK II GAS GRENADE

[high talon]

wait real quick what year did Leonard get well into that accident?

[azure bay]

must be 1918

[high talon]

give me a minute to check the wiki

hmm yeah they did gain use in that year huh...ig it checks out?

although here it only says it was used in WW2 not WW1 [iirc Leonard was in the first war; or should i say the great war]

[azure bay]

may I see the source?

[high talon]

are you okay with me dming it to you?

[azure bay]

sure

but honestly I don't see a problem in posting research material here

[high talon]

better safe than sorry

[azure bay]

@high talon it's a frag grenade

not gas

[high talon]

ey man first result is always the most accurate; thats the rule of googling stuff

[azure bay]

http://www.inert-ord.net/usa03a/usa1/index.html

[high talon]

American huh...

[azure bay]

friednly fire?

[high talon]

you know the real question is why didn't he fecking move

like if i saw a grenade near me; i wouldn't stand there like a dingus

[azure bay]

you can never learn enough from these pantomimes

generally I don't tend to take them much literally

[high talon]

Like Leonard my guy; you survived 4 years in the trenches likely

use your brain

but anyways back to the grenade convo; i always assumed if in reality ofc Rusty Lake just existed in a super rular area of the Netherlands...why would he go to the states to like

fight on Americas side?

[azure bay]

the lake it has no way to be in the Netherlands

there are mountains around the lake

while the Netherlands are flat as your desk

[high talon]

fair...hm

[azure bay]

Canada would be a great candidate for RL location (there are already 7 Rusty Lakes there) if not for 1 detail

the chapel predates colonization of America

there was no Canada back when it was constructed

so I bet on Britain

[high talon]

i think the chapel was built in 1384

[azure bay]

exactly

[high talon]

but as you see i am European i know 0 info on American history

or British for that matter

[azure bay]

so am I. It's a matter of research

[stone talon]

So, the past is never dead, it's not even past.. don't you think that's related to Buddhism? The game is literally just Buddhism, the cycle of life, samsara.. this is my religion, i know what I'm talking about now lol

Its talking about how what's in the past is still living, which either points to Mr Crow when he drank the elixr, or maybe just.. samsara, the cycle of life

[azure bay]

there's more to in than just samsara

magic, alchemy, neurology

the past not being dead is more about the memories

and how they literally bring us into the past

[stone talon]

Ah, the memories

That actually makes more sense

Gtg, school

[azure bay]

another interpretation is closer to the original one

the history of Rusty Lake is cyclical

what happened in the past will happen in the future even though differently

notably a story of ascension of the ruler of the lake

[stone talon]

That makes a lot of sense

[carmine field]

I like this interpretation

I hope they reveal more about Dale's journey in the future

I'm quite curious about Dale's rule over the lake

[long smelt]

In Cube escape Paradox we can see that Mr Owls future version is a fish. I thought that you where stuck to one animal after you become enlightened. Why is he the only one that changes into a different animal?

Is Mr Crow also going to become a fish?

[azure bay]

currently neither Owl nor Crow are animals

they are demigods that look like such

however the fish, it seems, implies a completely animalistic form

[carmine field]

Considering the stages of the Samsara wheel in RL universe, would that owl—referred as The Chosen One—be the representation of Deva, while the deer represents Asura?

btw, it is strange that the stages of Samsara are organized differently in this book when compared to other appearances in the series. I don't know if it is a hint of something or if it doesnt matter

[covert wyvern]

I suppose you could argue the wheels were made by different people that wanted to represent the stages in different places?

Not sure if that's like relevant to the greater mystery though

[carmine field]

it was just a hunch, but you have a good point

[carmine field]

yeah, a different stage of the wheel

[bright parrot]

And the ? is the "deva" form

The forest image (Narka) is place
We've also not seen any residents of narka

[covert wyvern]

mhm what about the souls at the bottom of the lake?:)

[bright parrot]

Souls is a different form

Soul is a transition form

I thought "asuras" or animal hybrids can be the residents of hell/narka

Also
Is paradise the "narka"

[azure bay]

I think it's vice versa. Dale is teased to become a deva and we saw him as a deer several times while Owl didn't have a journey like his and doesn't feel much different from Crow

[azure bay]

@bright parrot The guests aren't trapped there they are free to leave the lake. Only if they have somewhere to go. However the trees ARE trapped there and we already have souls depicted as trees

[bright parrot]

Damy is talking about the ending of cave (or some other game maybe)
Where we see trapped guests

[azure bay]

They are not trapped

They are free to leave

Like in Case 23

[bright parrot]

But they are kept in some cube type cages etc.

And then they broke free

Caused the stampede

Killed harvey

[azure bay]

And?

[bright parrot]

[azure bay]

What does imply they can't leave?

[bright parrot]

Nothing just explaining chronology.
The point is they were trapped or kept prisoners.

[azure bay]

But that's not The Cave

You told Damy was talking about The Cave

[bright parrot]

Maybe it was paradox

[azure bay]

What paradox?

[bright parrot]

Rl paradox

[covert wyvern]

for what its worth I was just pondering the lake as hell in general

[bright parrot]

I believe paradise/hotel is hell

[azure bay]

No, the wheel likely refers exclusively to the lake bottom

Paradise island is part of human realm

Or whatever u'd call the surface

[bright parrot]

Oh yes you are correct

[pure chasm]

yea

[high talon]

i have a maybe stupid question; so the deer motif right?

Why do three [?] people share it?

[leaden rain]

Yknow in Rusty Lake the past future and the present happens at the same time. So maybe the deer person will change by time

[azure bay]

there are at least 2 different deer motives

the one of Nicolas is totemic. He somehow is like a deer

while Albert's deer is diabolic

[high talon]

Yeah but...why not give them smth else?

i mean its good dont get me wrong

but differing animals would've been cooler

[azure bay]

by the way

[ebon aspen]

Im sure the devs wanted to link nick, albert and dale in some way

[azure bay]

I'm not

[ebon aspen]

They have so many thing not in common that them not having diff animalsonas is intriguing for sure

And with lots of animals out there, idk why giving the deer for the three

[high talon]

Like Dale easily could've been a german shepherd, a bear or who knows idk a corgi?

a cat?

[azure bay]

Albert is not a deer, it's just a mask and it's not even the most popular one on his

[high talon]

Well deers are associated with him more-so i imagine like in that one level in Roots he'd be a horse?

but maybe he can turn into many animals who knows

[azure bay]

the horse isn't even a mask

[high talon]

well it kind of is?

[azure bay]

it's just an artistic depiction of him playing a knight

[high talon]

well that's subjective but you do you

[azure bay]

don't u think they are just casually wearing a heck luxurious crown we've never seen before too?

[high talon]

conjuring lmao idk

okay but lets agree Alberts a weirdo; i wouldn't place it beyond him do have a horse mask just laying around

[azure bay]

the horse mask just as the crown appear as soon as the respective chess pieces are on the table. And the latter disappears as soon as Albert starts playing king and is replaced by said crown

[high talon]

mayhaps but for the sake of that idea being super funny im gonna ignore that bcs it honestly doesn't contribute to the story in a 'wider' range

[azure bay]

back to the deer

as I said before, it's not Albert's most regular choice

it's the snow mask

also

The Past Within made it clear that all these masks are rather tools

he used the snow mask to make it snow

he used the deer mask for bloody rituals

I think they possess magical powers they grant their wearer

The origin of deer's skull is interesting too

[high talon]

hmm

that is interesting

[azure bay]

the only existing theory is that the skull used to belong to Mr. Deer and later on was stolen by the bird-like corrupted soul

[high talon]

how do we know Albert just isn't into some witchcraft?Like i feel if he practised [which i assume he did] he could've done it w/o the deer mask too

maybe it would've been less powerful but still

[azure bay]

we don't know how sorcery works in RL

[high talon]

i mean Ida kind of used magic and Emma too; they didn't have a magic deer skull laying around

so...

maybe it runs in the family?

[azure bay]

Ida is not the family

[high talon]

Fair but Emma is

[azure bay]

what happened with Emma is vague too

some say it's just a metaphor of her being "deflowered"

[high talon]

Like maybe its from Mary's side?Do we know any of her history?

[azure bay]

we know nothing. And even more than nothing

[high talon]

Exactly so who's do say her side of the family isn't into some you know weird stuff?

I mean her family surely had more taboo children raising methods [atleast to the modern world] who gives a baby wine [?]

[azure bay]

the burden of proof is on the side making the claim

[high talon]

Yeah ik i have 0 proof do work off from; but well it could be possible until its disproven?

[azure bay]

I'd rather say, it's the opposite. Impossible until proven. Here's why

without any evidence we can come out with anything. An unlimited space of possibilities. And each suggestion is just a little dot in this space. Why is your dot preferable over all the other infinite dots?

[high talon]

Well i am the star that might not shine the brightest but i will burn out way more slowly ok jkjk but really we all might theorize all we wish [no matter how right/wrong we might be]

we are taking shots in the dark hoping they will hit

[azure bay]

ok, if you find it fun

[high talon]

isn't that the point?

[azure bay]

yeah. Only I personally find excitement in limiting space of possibilities by evidence to a few options. And then see how these options work with options coming from a different limited space

combining 2-3 options that come from dozens of questions we ask about RL and still renders a vast amount of resulting outcomes

[high talon]

Well here's where i bring my opinion in don't cube [haha] yourself into a tiny box you never know where it could end up in sure if its too big you could tie yourself up in a big knot but you'd eventually get out of it [once you figure it out for yourself] and that is the most satisfying feeling in the world

plus RL can be seen as art; and well 'eye of the beholder' everyone's welcome to have their view on the story imho

[azure bay]

you seem not to understand my point

[high talon]

i think i kind of do but i kind of don't?

[azure bay]

my options are still pretty numerous

maybe I need to bring up an example

in my essay about Seasons/The Lake/Harvey's Box I mentioned 4 theories about The Lake-Harvey's Box and 4 theories about Seasons

and then tired to see how they work together

I reviewed 4x4=16 options

[high talon]

That's fair

but sometimes i feel with a series like this ya gotta think outside the box sometimes; im not saying you're 'limiting yourself' too much just you know keep an open view on things

[azure bay]

I'm open to things

[high talon]

also rq unrelated just noticed we have a past within thread; nice

[azure bay]

but if we want to get somewhere, we'd rather make these things pay rent

they are numerous

they consume time and attention

and these are limited resources

and the best rent is evidence

or at least interpretation of such

[high talon]

Well yes; but i fear the day RL will have branching timelines [i mean technically it kind of could] but oh boy if its true

[azure bay]

I think it is true

[high talon]

fnaf 2.0 im telling you [not in a bad way; but the timelines likely gonna be messy do assemble]

[azure bay]

otherwise TPW have decanonized 9/10 of CE games, the Roots ending, The White Door and the upcoming metro game

[high talon]

that's a lot do take in ngl

[carmine field]

this theory is interesting

[azure bay]

But there're good news too

branching is done only deliberately

Laura wants to live? She puts an effort to create a timeline

Rose needs long gone remains and soul of Albert? She makes a complicated device to get them from the alternative past

[final atlas]

Theory: Seasons happens after the Mill

[azure bay]

a decade later, I'd say

[final atlas]

Because when mr. Crow says the things to Laura's soul, she disappears, my theory is that she did go to change her past in seasons

[azure bay]

Did you play The Cave?

[final atlas]

Yes

[azure bay]

then you should know she was recaptured

[final atlas]

oh it's true

Do you think that mr. Owl recaptured her?

[azure bay]

maybe

[final atlas]

Or he did Guide Dale to the white Cube, just like the puzzle in there

[azure bay]

I think it's not that important

[final atlas]

You're right

[azure bay]

what I do think is important is that it was Laura calling herself in Seasons

not Crow

[final atlas]

In the telephone?

[azure bay]

yep

[final atlas]

That makes Sense

But the words still the same as the Crow says

[azure bay]

there are 2 things Crow did not say

"The past is never dead"

[final atlas]

Find me in the past?

[azure bay]

and most importantly, that

[final atlas]

What do the telephone says in the fall?

[azure bay]

this one

[final atlas]

This word were referenced so many times

[azure bay]

yep, does it change anything?

[final atlas]

I don't know