and lets not talk abt the eilander family
#🤔｜theories
errant trellis
idk who that isss
graceful cairn
oh sorry!
errant trellis
sorry for not knowing!!
graceful cairn
no don't be! its okay!!
ill try to explain it to my best ability!
This video explain it pretty good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaiv8gnJc7U&list=PLbyJ-DEis1HzWy1htIegn5dOy3LTa5-k2
graceful cairn
ill try to explain it to my best ability!
"Margaret Eilander is the eldest member of the Eilander family. She is the mother to Nicholas and Gerard, and the grandmother of Jakob, Elizabeth, and David." Rusty Lake Wiki
graceful cairn
ah, okay, I'll watch the video when I've fished roots
Ok ! :))
errant trellis
((:
graceful cairn
I hope you enjoy rusty lake!
delicate atlas
No problem 👍
You should play paradise if you didn't
It's where the Eilander family comes from
errant trellis
I'm going through them in order!!
delicate atlas
Good luck!
azure bay
@errant trellis @graceful cairn some theorize that Aldous is James' father
floral mauve
yes
bright parrot
<@803992388317872161> <@981321310166736916> some theorize that Aldous is James' ...
If aldous is James's father that makes dale and albert cousins
(If we believe that grandpa is real in bday)
bright parrot
Almost every question ends on mr. Crow.
Like if we know what he can do and how.
We may get answers to almost any questions
@azure bay
Here are some dates.
1867- birth of albert
1909- birth of rose
1930- birth of dale
1935- birth of laura
azure bay
so?
bright parrot
If crow is father of james
And grandpa of dalw
Then it just doesn't make sense
Coz dale is born after a century of birth of albert
Who would be crow's grandson
Or Dale's cousin
azure bay
you are forgetting. Mr. Crow is a semi-immortal creature. The only thing that could arguably prevent him from creating a new family is his old look
bright parrot
Yes.
But how can he change forms so easily.
And crow is still alive
And so in jakob
azure bay
Yes.
But how can he change forms so easily.
Mr. Crow as well as Mr. Owl just can. Probably like any other asura
bright parrot
Like who
We've not seen any asura change its forms so easily
Other than crow and owl
azure bay
Other than crow and owl
these 2 are enough to assume that to be normal
bright parrot
Owl changed in Paradox so I would not count that
Plus I have a theory
Which is
That crow is not his grandfather
He is just pretending to be
azure bay
Owl changed in Paradox so I would not count that
The Cave. You are forgetting The Cave
also Theatre, The White Door
bright parrot
also Theatre, The White Door
TWD?
azure bay
The Manager is confirmed to be Owl
bright parrot
Oh wait
Yes
I want to ask something
Did devs pre planned all the games.
Or are they adding new games.
azure bay
I think it depends
bright parrot
Coz if thats all planned that would make some real sense
Take God of war for example
Trilogy made sense
And then they started new series
By rebooting the character
Plus if thats not all planned all together then it may have continuity errors and loopholes.
(That we are seeing a bit in RL)
azure bay
Rusty Lake worldbuilding is mostly soft
Both The White Door and Best Kept Memory came out of blue
we only had Rusty Lake MH&F and that was seemingly enough
bright parrot
I believe TWD as a spinoff
azure bay
I speak of the organizations
azure bay
The Past Within wasn't really preplanned from the start
the concept change at least 2 times
we know that from devlogs
bright parrot
The train game too will be same
azure bay
maybe not
this one could be preplanned
we have a huge gap between Laura's birth and her death
even The Lake is extremely unclear
bright parrot
Idk
They teased the game secretly and we don't even know its name
azure bay
Idk
They teased the game secretly and we don't even know its name
the game is but the story seems global and important enough to be at least partially thought through
at least after Roots came out
bright parrot
Plus we don't know if it will cover all of Laura's journey.
It will be more of an episode of her life
One of many
If its a free game
If the game is premium one (which I doubt) then we may see Laura's whole story
azure bay
Plus we don't know if it will cover all of Laura's journey.
It will be more of a...
We already know that it will stretch over years
bright parrot
So like multiple games
Like the did with dalw
azure bay
we have Laura in a baby stroller, we have her photo as a child, we have some frames of her with Bob
all for the metro game
speaking of other games
in earlier interviews the devs said that the general story was figured out pretty much early on
I can say almost for sure that was the case for the universe laws
like the cubes
TPW isn't much different from Seasons
Also samsara
Indian mythology was a clear inspiration even before the series started
in the original 2013 Samsara Room
Dale's story was mostly set in stone pretty much early on. Because it's a big Twin Peaks reference
bright parrot
The thing is they make their laws and then break them.
Look we saw the cycle of samsara in theatre
(The windmill puzzle) It had to be the certain order to work and that's the order given in buddhist text (as far as I know) and now anyone can be anything.
azure bay
The thing is they make their laws and then break them.
Look we saw the cycle of...
that was never the law
bright parrot
Dale's story was mostly set in stone pretty much early on. Because it's a big Tw...
What big twin peaks
So why the certain order
And that too the OG order
Of reincarnation
azure bay
The wikipedia article on samsara says nothing about the order. The form you are reborn in is defined by your positive and negative karma.
The order you see is just a depiction of samsara wheel. Bhavacakra. Neither that imposes any rebirth order, just a hierarchy
bright parrot
That's from buddhism
azure bay
That's from buddhism
in buddhism there are 3 wheels
the outer one consists of life and death stages
unlike all the rest they have order
you are born, you get old, you die, you experience some afterlife transformations, you are reborn
the second wheel is what RL uses
it has no order
only karma reasons
bright parrot
I agree with you.
azure bay
the inner wheel depicts 3 sins preventing souls from leaving samsara
bright parrot
So if I'm correct then a CS must form after death of a person
azure bay
So if I'm correct then a CS must form after death of a person
don't confuse souls and corrupted souls
corrupted souls are ghost unable to be reborn
bright parrot
Due to their karma
azure bay
(originally)
bright parrot
So They are dead
bright parrot
But still what we can agree upon is
That CS is like a cancer to body.
And its happening to bob and dalw
It also happened to Laura
And William being a CS got himself a body
azure bay
no, all the statements are debatable
Dale's case is weird
his semi-corruption could be beneficial
for his journey, I mean
or it could be some quantum side effect of the ritual he participates in
speaking of it being cancer for Bob and van Gogh... Ehhh... Maybe?
But I would likely change the wording
But William has clearly become a child. Visually clear in Roots
bright parrot
Did devs say something about ending the series
Like is there any fixed no. Of games left
covert wyvern
Seems like a terrible business movem
Move*
(I think years ago they may have mentioned wanting to conclude the cube escape series and I believe that conclusion is paradox)
bright parrot
But William has clearly become a child. Visually clear in Roots
I believe William messed up with Laws and got himself a body by rituals.
So that may not count as a proper rebirths
covert wyvern
But I'm very vague on the details I'd have to go digging and I certainly don't feel like that atm lmao
azure bay
I believe William messed up with Laws and got himself a body by rituals.
So tha...
a corrupted soul visually transformed into a child. Legally/illegally, you can't argue with that.
back to the topic
late CE games and Hotel were preplanned at least during Case 23 development
we had photos of The Mill and The Cave
we had Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl
we had RL cigars
(in Harvey's box)
so we had Hotel
and in hotel we had THE elevator
and Dale's journey
Roots and William are the 1st things that may've been coming out of nowhere
they are very influential for Dale's story and ending
so maybe not
Paradise is another possible soft worldbuilding phenomenon
but at least Caroline was the thing in Case 23
at least her role as the lady of the lake
Paradox is mostly built on Paradise and Roots
Some events of Bob's story were definitely preplanned
maybe even the mental health institute part
except it probably wasn't called TWD originally
Samsara Room was planned to be introduced into the canon for long, according to what they told my friend
vague imp
Guys I just finished Paradox and I can't feel my brain anymore
What the hell is even going on 🥲
Which ending is canon ?
Dale dying to the elixir of eternal life or sudden death
Dale becoming a corrupted soul and killing Laura
Dale Escaping with his Golden Cube to the Hotel
Or Dale getting stuck in the timeline
floral mauve
Which ending is canon ?
All canon but the current path we are taken is the golden cube one
If u got the secret ending
vague imp
Okay thx for clearing that up
floral mauve
Since we see him with golden cube in twd
vague imp
Oh wait
floral mauve
And also hotel
floral mauve
I didn't play white door
It would be a good idea
reef bobcat
i haven't really been paying attention to story how many of the shadow guys are there
vague imp
i haven't really been paying attention to story how many of the shadow guys are ...
A lot
vague imp
At the very least 10
floral mauve
At the very least 10
If u mean all over the world
vague imp
We have the 5 guests from hotel
vague imp
I'm talking in game naturally
azure bay
Dale dying to the elixir of eternal life or sudden death
Dale becoming a corrupt...
That's funny. This statement seems both extremely right and dramatically wrong at the same time
I think that the green vial isn't the elixir
Maybe just a metaphorical poison
But at the same time Paradox seems to be about the choice who's dying and who's being enlightened during the elixir ritual
vague imp
Oh well yeah about it's kinda of a wild assumption
I can't be sure about it
There aren't enough clues to prove it's the elixir
vague imp
Omg the white door is so depressing 😭
Did Laura die by suicide as suggested in the cave , or did she die murdered by Dale's Corrupted soul ?
stone bramble
I am not a rusty lake lore expert idk what goes on like 60% of the time so dont trust me lol but I dont think she did get murdered by dale/his corrupted soul I think she did kill herself
think paradox is just mr owl and crow messing with dale's memories
vague imp
Okay I mean it's better than not knowing what's going on 100% of the time so thx
delicate atlas
Yeah she probably killed herself
The CS could be a representation of her mental health
And her own soul killing her
Because of her mental state corrupting her soul
Like cs in rl are an allegory for mental illness
That's how I see it personally
Like they corrupt after their mental illness gets the best of them
Bob, Laura and Van Gogh all become CSs after killing themselves
(Bob in theatre)
While others becomes CSs after traumatic experiences and terrible painful deaths
vague imp
CS happens when you extract a traumatic memory from death
It's confirmed in the mill
Now the problem is that Dale also turns into a CS in the end of Paradox and we even see him murdering Laura
However it is unclear whether paradox's events are real or not
delicate atlas
I think not
In the end of the cave you see dale hooked up to a machine
And turning back and forth between a CS and himself
Paradox was inside his mind
While he was sleeping with that machine on his head
Laura was in Paradox because she also was hooked up into that machine
delicate atlas
Paradox happens at the same time as the Cave
And according to nowherecaw after that Dale gets of the elevator
Which goes up
And then he goes into theatre memory cube and birthday memory cube
To face his past basically
That's where his story stops
Then we get the white door and the past within and later we'll get the Laura game
Which expand the RL universe and gives us more details about the logic and laws of it
We'll probably go back to Dale after this
stone bramble
my hopes for the laura game is that itll expand on her relationship with rose being her mom Im dying for it 
need mom rose content
bright parrot
If it's a free game then probably it will be like case 23 from where a laura trilogy may begin
But its Rusty lake they come up with new concepts everytime.
azure bay
Bob, Laura and Van Gogh all become CSs after killing themselves
You are wrong about all 3 of them
The death itself didn't cause a CS in any of the cases
For Laura & Bob (in Theatre) it was memory extraction. Bob even didn't die.
For van Gogh it was arguably his madness. And he shoots himself when already corrupted
azure bay
However it is unclear whether paradox's events are real or not
Paradox isn't real but it's symbolic
The game is about the choice and the consequences
Dale is trapped inside a loop
In a loop of being trapped inside a room
In order to leave said room he needs to make a choice
By choosing the blue one he embraces his corrupted soul which results into escape from the room but also Laura's death
However that doesn't end the loop
And during certain loop iterations Dale doesn't want to be corrupted
The green vial kills Dale. That's why he doesn't tend to take it. But also that the way to save Laura (I'll tell how a bit later) and arguably end the loop
So the red vials seems the solution. It doesn't visibly harm Dale and lets him leave the room
However, as Crow said, he doesn't escape his mind nor the consequences of his actions
So he's still in the loop and also his corrupted future-self still kills Laura
And red vial Dale still suffers through consequences even tho it's not him killing Laura (yet)
There are 2 ways of ending the loop
Either by accepting these consequences and finding the real exit (the elevator)
Or by killing the would be killer (himself)
Externally Paradox could represent Dale's choice who dies and whe becomes enlightened during the elixir ritual they do or will participate in
But I have a theory of how that could go even further
I call it the Global Paradox theory
In ch2 Owl writes dale that all of them have their respectives roles in RL just like the chess pieces
All including Dale's CS
Which means that it's somehow involved in the story overall
(as I think about it, it could be about embracing it and using later on during the elevator ride or maybe even after it in the future game about the hotel but here I'll focus on another option)
So the theory of Global Paradox suggests that the role of Dale's corruptes soul is somehow pushing Laura into suicide.
What is the paradox that gave the game its title?
Basically it's Dale watching Dale killing Laura
2 Dales at the same place, hence the paradox
The Global Paradox is Dale investigating other Dale's crime. Still 2 Dales but this time in the same world
Of haunting Laura (during The Lake or otherwise)
Or (if it's possible ofc) of possessing her body
The thing is, cutting your own throat is too painful to be just suicide
So Laura was either out of her mind or (maybe?) possessed
vague imp
So Laura was either out of her mind or (maybe?) possessed
Or maybe she had depression
azure bay
Or maybe she had depression
Are you sure depression would make her choose the most painfull way to die possible?
I am not. IRL statistics suggests otherwise
Don't take me wrong
She had depression
That's just unlikely to be the decisive factor in choosing her death
vague imp
Actually youre right
vague imp
@azure bay So smart omg
vague imp
Anyways when does harvey's box occur in reality ?
vague imp
That's actually weird ..?
Because we see harvey reach the lake , but he is never saw once in the lake
ebon aspen
Hes inside the box in the cabin
vague imp
What box ?
azure bay
What box ?
look in Case 23
vague imp
Dale emptied that box and found nothing
azure bay
Dale emptied that box and found nothing
matches
vague imp
- Case 23 happens way after 1969
azure bay
*Nothing named Harvey
Because Laura took Harvey back home
vague imp
Okay but Harvey reached the cabin only after the corrupted soul attacked laura ?
vague imp
That would suprise me , but if Harvey reached the lake and got attacked by a corrupted soul does that imply Laura got attacked by 2 Corrupted Souls during her trip ?
azure bay
they could be attacked either by the same soul together or by 2 different separately
vague imp
The 2 corrupted souls certainly looked different
- when Laura was attacked by the corrupted soul Harvey's box still couldn't be found
azure bay
The 2 corrupted souls certainly looked different
souls look mostly the same. You can rarely distinguish them
vague imp
Well the corrupted soul that attacked Harvey had wings
azure bay
Well the corrupted soul that attacked Harvey had wings
when it was attacked
with fireflies
vague imp
Wait really
Oh you're right my bad
But still when Laura was attacked harvey's box wasn't found
azure bay
But still when Laura was attacked harvey's box wasn't found
3 options
vague imp
And I don't think a corrupted soul can die/get eliminated twice
azure bay
- it was outside
- it arrived later
- it wasn't thought through during The Lake development and was retconned into the canon later
vague imp
1/ looks unlikely
2/ is what I think is possible
3/ That's also likely but it would have been quite a shame
azure bay
How can Harvey's box be outside the cabin?
a box on a pier
azure bay
Well if you look at that screenshot
they say the grey/white thing behind the soul is actually the sky
vague imp
Well I don't think so
azure bay
Well I don't think so
neither did I but as I think about it, it's possible
vague imp
The only thing that changed the sky colour was laura performing the ritual
And when it changed the sky colour
It changed it into black
Not grey/white
azure bay
The only thing that changed the sky colour was laura performing the ritual
it wasn't Laura
it was CS arrival
in other games it's the same
vague imp
Excuse me what?
azure bay
CS change the environment
make it darker
Case 23, The Mill, The White Door
also here
CS makes everything a bit darker
azure bay
the supposed "sky" is technically white
vague imp
Okay you're actually right
But there is still something that bothers me
Does it imply that Corrupted Souls are not equally strong?
And that each corrupted soul influence each person differently
Because during the lake we never saw the sky become grey
azure bay
Because during the lake we never saw the sky become grey
we saw both
when it arrived everything went black
when it was repelled everything went white
vague imp
But not at the same time ?
azure bay
But not at the same time ?
it was black when the soul arrived
vague imp
Yes
azure bay
and when repelled the black cube was surrounded by the white void
vague imp
There is also something that was overlooked
During how much time does the white void stay
Certainly not forever
But does it immediately disappear when you take the cube ?
azure bay
But does it immediately disappear when you take the cube ?
I think the white void is the early depiction of the lake
its bottom I mean
where the cubes float
vague imp
Gimme one sec pls
vague imp
I think the white void is the early depiction of the lake
What do you mean by that ?
Do think that the white void is more representative of something than real ?
azure bay
I think the void is more real than the reality itself
vague imp
Okay
I misunderstood you for a moment
Anyways here is an argument against the harvey outside of the cabin theory
If harvey managed to fight the corrupted soul before Laura encountered the corrupted soul, then Laura should have seen the white void before the CS however that doesn't happen
So we can deduce that Harvey fought against CS after Laura fought the CS since Harvey couldn't see anything
Now the question here is if Harvey was just outside the cabin how tf did he survive the white void
azure bay
that's valid, I guess. Unless the thing above isn't the void but just a normal sky
vague imp
Imagine white is just SKY 😂
azure bay
Imagine white is just SKY 😂
it technically is on the background artwork in The Lake
vague imp
Well after fighting CS all of the Mountains despair
azure bay
I'm not saying that the void is guaranteed to appear
azure bay
For Harvey that isn't that certain
Alternatively, it could be either a ceiling or just a sky which is white on the artwork used in The Lake
vague imp
Wait I should be able to prouve that it's the case
I just need to check something
Excuse me for 5 minutes
azure bay
*there he goes, falling into the rabbit hole I once explored*
vague imp
I need to finish harvey's box
But this time
Instead of immediately clicking on the cube after defeating CS
I'll check the hole
On the box
To see if it's pitch white
Or the normal background
azure bay
*or maybe not*
azure bay
To see if it's pitch white
I'm almost sure it isn't but also I don't think it's indicative
vague imp
Well if it did turn white
It's safe to assume that the white in Harvey's box is the void
If the background is normal
It's just the sky
azure bay
If the background is normal
I don't think that's indicative because the box holes are weird on their own
you see, whether that's the cabin's interior or its exterior, there's always something off
if the white thing is a ceiling, then it's inconsistent to other games taking place inside the cabin
if that's the sky or the void, the carrying hole on one of the box sides still depicts the cabin's planks
which is just wrong
@vague imp do you get what I mean?
azure bay
what?
azure bay
that's actually what I was talking about
azure bay
That's so weird
it's weird either way
vague imp
Wait so is the box actually outside of the cabin ?
azure bay
if it's the interior, we are probably seeing the door. I could even accept that the ceiling is just white.
The problem is, the white ceiling is inconsistent
azure bay
but if it's the exterior, the white sky is also acceptable but not the planks on the screenshot above
vague imp
if it's the interior, we are probably seeing the door. I could even accept that ...
That's very good
👌
So the box would be
azure bay
So the box would be
no idea
we have to make compromises in both cases
either the ceiling is wrong
or the hole
vague imp
The box needs to be precisely here :
Leaving a very small margin for the pigeon
To walk in front of it
azure bay
The box needs to be precisely here :
I still don't really get why
what's the problem with the pigeon?
azure bay
I'm still confused
vague imp
So when the box is open and Harvey looks up , he'll see the sky
vague imp
So the hole would be right showing the lake exactly like Laure sees it
And the sky would be white just like the white void
That I'm about to prouve
azure bay
So the hole would be right showing the lake exactly like Laure sees it
I don't think that's necesssary
the cabin has a window with the same view
but if you are speaking of the ledge
yeah, that's the only way to place the box outside
vague imp
Because the pigeon can't just walk on water
azure bay
I thought that was obvious
vague imp
Of course it is
azure bay
but I disagree that the box should be next to the rod
vague imp
The problem was mostly the celling
azure bay
You may have mistyped
thx
vague imp
👌
azure bay
I was saying that it could be hidden behind the wall and thus invisible for Laura.
the view is just a background and doesn't have to match presicely
vague imp
Yeah it doesn't need to be exactly next the fishing rod
Is just needs to be around the cabin
azure bay
👍
bright parrot
This appears to be placed outside the cabin in RL
vague imp
No it isn't
bright parrot
No it isn't
But we can see lake in (can't get the word)
azure bay
@vague imp I was telling that there's some mistake on the dev's behalf no matter if the box is inside or outside
azure bay
What?
bright parrot
I read the chat and would like to say something
The box was in cabin when Laura was in cabin.
She opened the box picked Harvey went to mill threatened crow
azure bay
We have either an inconsistent ceiling that's different both in The Lake and Case 23 or we have inconsistent holes in the same box side showing different things
azure bay
The box was in cabin when Laura was in cabin.
She opened the box picked Harvey w...
Laura didn't get to the mill on foot
She went back home and took Harvey with her
Then she died
Then her body was teleported to the mill
vague imp
The box was in cabin when Laura was in cabin.
She opened the box picked Harvey w...
You clearly forgor about case23/the mill
Mr Mario you should check those 2 games quickly then come back
bright parrot
What are you trying to get my focus on
vague imp
Focus on chapter 1 of case 23
Dale saw Laura's dead body getting dragged
And in the mill
Mr Crow received a letter from Mr Owl
Telling him that he will bring him Laura's dead body
But anyways that's confirmed it's not even theory
My theory is about Harvey's box emplacement I believe it should be like this :
bright parrot
My theory is about Harvey's box emplacement I believe it should be like this :
I believe that the potential hidden floor is just in the front side of the cabin.
There may not be any floor on the other sides.
And Harvey's box is like a delivery.
Like dilevery man leaves package at the door.
Same was done for Harvey
vague imp
Yeah that's what I think too
But let's not forget
That there is a whole frickin elevator hiding in the cabin
You can see it at case23 chapter 4
bright parrot
Yes
vague imp
Harvey's box can't just be in the lake because the pigeon can't walk on water
And it also can't be inside because the ceiling would be messed up
bright parrot
I believe they were doing same to bob what they were doing to laura.
They built her a cabin for something purposeful
azure bay
And it also can't be inside because the ceiling would be messed up
You seem not to get one of my messages
vague imp
Oh yeah I completely missed it
azure bay
both the outside theory and the inside theory have problems
vague imp
Wait I get it now
bright parrot
Here's the ceiling
azure bay
Here's the ceiling
or the sky
vague imp
This is the sky
bright parrot
Hear me once
azure bay
This is the sky
or the ceiling
bright parrot
The floor of cabin is same colour
vague imp
No I believe its the sky
bright parrot
Here's the floor from the 2 games
azure bay
bright parrot
Oh
vague imp
Well it's certainly not the same color?
bright parrot
Then its sky
azure bay
hear me out both of you
we either have a weird ceiling or weird holes. And we have no way to know which is true
unless we ask the devs
azure bay
It comes out of blue
bright parrot
Maybe devs didn't plan that
azure bay
didn't plan what?
vague imp
Well I still want to find a solution
bright parrot
didn't plan what?
Didn't thought that much about the ceiling/sky
azure bay
But I want to find a solution
sometimes it's not worth it
it's not that important for the story
I personally don't see a problem in the devs cutting corners for their 4th game in 2015
they used to spend only a month on each back then
azure bay
what?
vague imp
Gimme one sec
Harvey's box was placed this way
Half ot it was inside the cabin
Half of it was on the floor around the cabin
azure bay
I disagree
I think the ledge is wider
- The ledge should be wider
- your door is the entire wall wide
vague imp
Okay I'll fix it
vague imp
1) The ledge should be wider
2) your door is the entire wall wide
There is a way actually
azure bay
I mean the door should be narrower. So's the view
azure bay
that's still impossible
vague imp
Why is that ?
The box is half inside half outside
And since Harvey is small he sees this small plank in details
azure bay
Here's the ceiling
this looks like a wall with the plank pattern distorted by perspective
vague imp
this looks like a wall with the plank pattern distorted by perspective
No that's the sky on the right and the ceiling on the left
bright parrot
this looks like a wall with the plank pattern distorted by perspective
Yes
azure bay
No that's the sky on the right and the ceiling on the left
the planks are too narrow to belong to a ceiling
but ok for a vertical wall
the box is just by the wall
vague imp
bright parrot
The plank is vertical wall and
White/gray is ceiling
As you said
vague imp
Wait now I'm confused
azure bay
a skirting board if inside, a roof if outside
azure bay
So we all agree the box is just by the wall like this
I'd personally put it behind the wall
IF I WERE SURE IT'S OUTSIDE
vague imp
It can't work behind the wall because as mentioned before the part of the box under the sky is larger than the part in the cabin
azure bay
It can't work behind the wall because as mentioned before the part of the box un...
it's just perspective
there's no door there
just a wall
and some extra skirting/roof plank
vague imp
Wait I actually don't get it
azure bay
what exactly?
vague imp
What do you mean by just a wall
azure bay
I mean that the box is by a wall with no door visible
most of the planks are vertical
except for one
which is at the top
vague imp
Anyways it's kind of
Weird that we ended up talking about the box's emplacement
When the first question was when Harvey's box happened?
vague imp
Btw what is Laura doing when Harvey's box happened?
covert wyvern
Mental health and fishing?😅
vague imp
Nah that's actually not it
Because Harvey's box shouldn't ever happened in the first place
Laura should have just taken out Harvey of the box
Not let him stay in it and getting attacked by a CS
azure bay
but there's a theory
if HB happens during The Lake, Harvey could distract the CS attacking Laura and then repel it with those 3 fireflies
vague imp
Well we didn't see the CS at lake getting wings
azure bay
Well we didn't see the CS at lake getting wings
I'll tell more, we saw CS with wings never again
what I wanna say
a pentagram ritual
a CS starts approaching menacingly
The Lake ends
but HB goes on
Harvey attracts it with the glass noise
and then repels
vague imp
Oh so Laura survives in both endings
vague imp
And Harvey box's becomes kinda uncanon when Laura uses the green emerald
azure bay
And Harvey box's becomes kinda uncanon when Laura uses the green emerald
more than a half cube escape games become uncanon in Seasons ending
unless...
vague imp
But the flaw is still how did Laura even manage to not see Harvey's box
vague imp
Yeah that's possible
That they are many benching timelines happening at the same in Rusty Lake universe
vague imp
But the flaw is still how did Laura even manage to not see Harvey's box
What do you think about this ?
azure bay
The Past Within reassured me about branching timelines
before that I had no compelling evidence of cube contents being real
azure bay
the box being behind the wall would be a good explanation
also a retcon would do because RL worldbuilding is pretty soft
vague imp
Okay
I have another theory about Harvey's box
So before Leaving to The Cabin Laura requested for her bird to be sent , and after getting attacked by the first corrupted soul And nailing the ritual with the green emerald, Laura got so much trauma that she collapsed and failed to get the black cube, during Laura's sleep Mr Crow (or any other worker at Rusty Lake) came to deliver Harvey in a box, they took the black cube put harvey behind the wall and left , then Harvey's box events happened to save Laura, Finally they went back home but Laura was more traumatized by the Cabin's events
It could also be possible that the cube that Harvey saw came from the first CS that was eliminated by Laura and that the void was already happened
azure bay
wouldn't the green gem keep protecting Laura?
vague imp
Well the ritual seemed to only work for one CS
However
If that's not the case then Harvey simply did it to save himself
azure bay
Well the ritual seemed to only work for one CS
It just worked with no apparent specific rules
azure bay
here we go again
vague imp
?
azure bay
- I'd prefer you using 'if' instead of 'since' in the context of the box being outside
- If it's outside it's completely outside. There's no door seen above the box
vague imp
Oh right
Well if the box is outside of the cabin then Harvey wouldn't have been protected which sets up the events of Harvey's box
vague imp
Btw how long did she stay at the cabin?
azure bay
actually no idea
azure bay
Yeah I wouldn't think she'd like to stay for long
her letter to Bob kinda implied that
vague imp
Actually
I don't think she would have liked to stay for even 1 day
After what happened
But I believe she may have been tricked into singing something like I allow Rusty Lake to take me for 1 month
azure bay
the memories seen in The Cave could mean that she stayed
vague imp
You're referring to the white cube ?
azure bay
yeah
vague imp
Wait I need to check the map at cave to see how far the cabin is from hotel
Not that much
azure bay
I think she actually stayed at the hotel at night
vague imp
Yeah it could imply that she enjoyed her first day at Rusty Lake Hotel with her parrot
But then the second day she could have been sent to the Cabin and went though all of the trauma
azure bay
so she says
vague imp
Where does she say so ?
azure bay
in the beginning
azure bay
I found an abandoned cabin at Rusty Lake
vague imp
But what did she do about her bird then ?
vague imp
Well... Her staying at the cabin on her own is quite questionable....
Especially after what happened
azure bay
well, maybe it felt safe under the pentagon protection
but leaving the box outside unattended feels fetched
vague imp
Or maybe she couldn't leave
Because she was so scared of the CS
Maybe Mr Owl and Mr Crow carefully planned that she enters the cabin but never leaves it until she's enough traumatized to make sure she commits suicide
azure bay
Maybe Mr Owl and Mr Crow carefully planned that she enters the cabin but never l...
we don't actually know what was their plan back then
maybe it was the opposite
and it failed
vague imp
maybe it was the opposite
How is it the opposite?
azure bay
keeping her alive, for example
to cure her depression that started long before her trip
vague imp
But why would they want to ? they need here dead to extract her memories
azure bay
But why would they want to ? they need here dead to extract her memories
you don't need people dead to extract their memories
azure bay
you don't. Best Kept Memory proposes such services to wide public
azure bay
another Owl's clinic that operated in early 2000s
or maybe it belonged to Dale at the time already
it's from the recent ARG
their mascot
vague imp
Okay interesting
To answer why would Mr owl / Mr Crow want Laura Dead
We need to establish the relation between Aldous and his Brother
And possibly the true nature of Mr Crow and Mr Owl's complicity
vague imp
That's good
Mr crow did indeed save mr owl
I once read a theory that Mr Owl and Mr Crow are secretly manipulating each other
Like in paradox Mr Crow's time doesn't seem to be limited, and yet mr Owl seems to want Dale instead of mr crow to become the Ruler of the Lake
But let's ignore that
Since Paradox events aren't that reliable
azure bay
Like in paradox Mr Crow's time doesn't seem to be limited, and yet mr Owl seems ...
It's as limited. They both have to drink the extract to sustain their powers
covert wyvern
it's from the recent ARG
Currently ongoing! I may add:)
vague imp
Nice
vague imp
Currently ongoing! I may add:)
What are we asked to do
covert wyvern
we're currently waiting for the lottery on the website to end to get VHS tapes with new clues!
but I digress, sorry for the distraction:)
azure bay
What are we asked to do
(you should sign into the lottery BTW until it's too late)
vague imp
What do you think of the relation between Aldous and William
I mean Aldous didn't seem to care at all about his brother's death
azure bay
yet he helped him with his rebirth
maybe even he solely researched the ways while William was making the elixir
they knew one of them would die
azure bay
To create the magical FULL ELIXIR
I don't think that the full elixir is something special. Considering they only had a literally shitty extract
vague imp
I don't know Mr Owl seems convinced that the Golden Cube is what'll allow it
azure bay
I don't know Mr Owl seems convinced that the Golden Cube is what'll allow it
I think it IS the elixir
just a form of normal elixir
they need it because they have none
vague imp
Well that's very unlikely
Because it would be much simpler
To just
Extract
Their
Own
azure bay
own what?
vague imp
💩
vague imp
Doesn't matter, It's an infinite source of elixir
azure bay
it's not. I think there are big losses
vague imp
Why¿
azure bay
there always are if we talk microscopic
vague imp
So the golden cube gives higher quality elixir
woven lake
Can I ask something?
vague imp
Sure
azure bay
So the golden cube gives higher quality elixir
no evidence to support that. It uses William's formula
woven lake
What's your first theory?
azure bay
What's your first theory?
what do you mean by 1st?
vague imp
What's your first theory?
Where is Harvey's box in the cabin
What we started by talking about
vague imp
Where is Harvey's box in the cabin
Then how it was brought
vague imp
Then how it was brought
Then somehow this
woven lake
Such as the first theory into wath do you believe
azure bay
it's hard to remember. Because every single basic plot interpretation is technically a theory in this vague series
vague imp
We concluded that the box was most likely just outside of the cabin
Near the fishing rod
But the wall covered it in the lake so we couldn't see it
woven lake
I think that found the past it can be dificult
vague imp
I think that found the past it can be dificult
What?
azure bay
We concluded that the box was most likely just outside of the cabin
I didn't agree an that. It's still ambiguous for me
still could be inside
vague imp
I didn't agree an that. It's still ambiguous for me
My bad
azure bay
I want to continue the elixir talk
vague imp
Same
azure bay
I'll start with Caroline
azure bay
her formula resulted into a cube. The only cube closely related to elixir is the golden one.
her elixir formula I mean
vague imp
azure bay
yeah. Then there are Vanderboom bros' initials above the very same formula in the book in Paradox movie
which means that their research is based on her findings
vague imp
which means that their research is based on her findings
Of course they are
Wait one sec pls
Okay so the past would be Rusty Lake Paradise's events + Roots events
The present is whatever is going on with Dale Right now
And the future is best kept memories
However from our point of vue
Everything is past
@azure bay
azure bay
Of course they are
then Owl used William's formula from his memories to create the golden cube
vague imp
Let's continue
azure bay
so the 3 elixirs are use the same formula
vague imp
Caroline's formula
William's formula discovered from Caroline's formula
And the formula mr owl discovered using William's Formula
Anyways does Mr Crow knew about Laura being the reincarnation of William
azure bay
yeah?
woven lake
Whats your actually theory?
azure bay
about what?
azure bay
sorry, I struggle to understand what you are saying
azure bay
Hey
vague imp
I may have spent slightly more than 5 minutes
woven lake
Hello
woven lake
Yes
vague imp
Our main topic right now is how the lake sets up Harvey's box
woven lake
I'm Spanish so maybe it's a few dificult to understend me
vague imp
That's fine
woven lake
Our main topic right now is how the lake sets up Harvey's box
It's cool
Thaks for the context
woven lake
Yes
vague imp
Alright so first we started by establishing where Harvey's box could have been during the lake
woven lake
Ok
vague imp
Well even I ain't satisfied of the conclusion
woven lake
Where do you think that it can be locked?
vague imp
Because there may be some mistakes in the game development as pointed by @azure bay
woven lake
Aaaaaa
vague imp
azure bay
Because there may be some mistakes in the game development as pointed by <@35136...
And that's ok for such an early game
vague imp
I thought the box could be here
woven lake
Aaaaaa
azure bay
But I'm most likely wrong
Idk who's wrong here
woven lake
We can try to look for an special item to fishing the Harvey's box
vague imp
We can try to look for an special item to fishing the Harvey's box
Actually Harvey box wasn't in the lake
It's most likely Laura who brought it with her
woven lake
Ahhh
plain token
hello,enlighten me plz
vague imp
Hello just check the 10 pervious messages
woven lake
So, it Laura brought it with her it can be into cube scape paradox?
vague imp
So, it Laura brought it with her it can be into cube scape paradox?
No we're talking about Cube Escape the lake
floral mauve
I am confusion
woven lake
Aaaaaa
vague imp
I may have spent slightly more than 5 minutes
Check from here to understand the context
woven lake
So into cube scape lake there are two finals no? It's wath we know about the final of the game
vague imp
Yeah
I believe that the one with green emerald is the real final
But some therorize both are real
woven lake
I think it to
vague imp
With Harvey saving Laura
woven lake
.
┏┓ OK!
┃┣━┓
┛┣━┃
⠀┣━┃
┓┣━┃
┗┻━┛
vague imp
Then I proposed a theory that Mr Crow and Mr Owl planned to get Laura trapped in the cabin so that she couldn't leave the cabin without putting herself in danger, if Laura just forgot that Harvey was outside the cabin it would perfectly set up Harvey Box since he isn't protected from the corrupted soul,
After Laura and Harvey are stuck , Mr Crow and Mr Owl will save Laura From the cabin only after she gets so traumatized that they know she'll commit suicide
Laura was just supposed to stay at Rusty Lake Hotel for a short amount of time
But she managed on her own to find the cabin
floral mauve
I dont think they know Laura is that important at the time
vague imp
So it can be argued that Mr Owl and Mr Crow didn't want Laura to die
floral mauve
They dont even know her name
vague imp
How would they not
vague imp
You can't just enter an institue without giving personal infos
And they also have her profile it can be seen in paradox
floral mauve
You can't just enter an institue without giving personal infos
it was an abandoned cabin
vague imp
it was an abandoned cabin
No it was supposed to be the hotel
But Laura found the cabin on her own
Whether it was planned or not
Is unclear
But it would make sense if it was
Since it arranges them to be capable of extracting Laura's(who is William's reincarnation)memories
floral mauve
I think at first she was chosen to feed the lake
vague imp
That's possible
floral mauve
then her memories got picked up again
vague imp
In that case they'll kill her anyway in the hotel
floral mauve
so her purpose changed to fusing golden cube
vague imp
After that we started elaborating on the relation between mr Crow and his brother and Mr Crow and Mr Owl since it was key to figure out their true intentions
vague imp
I think at first she was chosen to feed the lake
That's unlikely since William Vanderboom is very important to them
floral mauve
That's unlikely since William Vanderboom is very important to them
But thats what happened
vague imp
Just seeing the word VanderBoom on her name is enough to let them know her importance
floral mauve
they dealt with it in a normal feeding procedure
vague imp
Yeah they didn't know how important her memories are
You're right nvm
Since in the cave her memories were in the lake
After that @azure bay presented the theory that the elixir from the golden cube isn't better than the other elixir
So I decided to answer it with a questionable argument
floral mauve
ehm, I doubt so unless he forms a nice golden cube theory from tpw
because before considering tpw, golden cube is something superior that u need to go through trails to tame it
vague imp
Well Albert's CS somehow knew how to make it
azure bay
ehm, I doubt so unless he forms a nice golden cube theory from tpw
They literally used the same formula
floral mauve
@covert wyvern is the tpw no spoiler still a thing
floral mauve
They literally used the same formula
much complicated
azure bay
What's complicated?
azure bay
<@178138301432070145> is the tpw no spoiler still a thing
Until the metro game
floral mauve
Golden cube
floral mauve
Golden cube u need to overcome trauma reprocess memory and fuse the memory of ur pair, it works like the regular green elixir
but looks extra steps
floral mauve
and golden cube is like an item out of his body seems like he could do something with it
we need a magic system update in RL
vague imp
You proposed that mr owl made caroline's formula using William's formula
azure bay
Golden cube u need to overcome trauma reprocess memory and fuse the memory of ur...
Overcoming trauma was after the golden cube creation
floral mauve
then William
floral mauve
Overcoming trauma was after the golden cube creation
yea, potato tomato
floral mauve
It's Caroline's
Read what I said
azure bay
@vague imp we speak with @floral mauve pretty often
vague imp
?
azure bay
He knows my theories
vague imp
Okay
floral mauve
me and nowhere have been talking often since mid 2021
vague imp
Nice
azure bay
The problem is, he doesn't remember them c:
vague imp
Well the theory is that
floral mauve
I dont even remember my own theories
some of them did create breakthroughs though if I dont remember it, just forget about it lol
vague imp
Caroline inspired William which re-inspired Mr Owl right ? @azure bay
azure bay
Owl wasn't really inspired
floral mauve
I would say they work together
azure bay
Owl copied them
floral mauve
Owl is caroline + her son
pls no
vague imp
Or just her son ?
floral mauve
His past is Jakob
floral mauve
Ah ha I remember something
vague imp
That would explain why Jakob failed to copy it all
But william's formula kinda suck
Since it's not permanent
While still being hard to obtain
azure bay
Owl failed to copy all
I'm saying that the golden cube is a copy of William's elixir. And overcoming trauma imo has nothing to do with how the golden cube works
floral mauve
Does that mean technically Caroline-Jakob and Dale-Laura is quite similar pair
floral mauve
I'm saying that the golden cube is a copy of William's elixir. And overcoming tr...
tbh I see it more like Jakob-Caroline situation
no green shit involved
azure bay
tbh I see it more like Jakob-Caroline situation
The conceptual elixir is an elixir too
floral mauve
Does that mean technically Caroline-Jakob and Dale-Laura is quite similar pair
Let me explain, first, it is CS Human tradeoff, second Human gets enlightened which could suggest Laura will perish??
However, since Caroline didnt know about white cube or blue cube, so it isnt the full elixir I guess
azure bay
Let me explain, first, it is CS Human tradeoff, second Human gets enlightened *w...
Seasons doesn't look like that
floral mauve
Seasons doesn't look like that
Seasons is another part of discussion which doesnt seem to work anyway
in this timeline
if Dale gets enlightened
Laura will not revive
azure bay
Seasons is another part of discussion which doesnt seem to work anyway
Initially Laura started at Dale's timeline
floral mauve
Initially Laura started at Dale's timeline
so is Caroline
vague imp
What are you talking about?
azure bay
What are you talking about?
We don't really know what happened to Caroline. But we have reasons to think that her case is a lot similar to Laura's
And we can guess what happened to Laura
vague imp
What in it is similar to Laura
floral mauve
parallel reasoning
azure bay
What in it is similar to Laura
They are both corrupted during the ritual
vague imp
What ritual was Laura involved in ?
vague imp
In paradox ?
floral mauve
In Cave/paradox
vague imp
Ok
plain token
quick question:that fish in harvey’s box doesn’t appear in any other game (at least from what i know)so what’s the deal with it?
floral mauve
quick question:that fish in harvey’s box doesn’t appear in any other game (at le...
I think it did appear in Cave and suggest it in Paradox
plain token
in cave?