🤔｜theories

[bold cradle]

I think it sound like the White door's..

[covert wyvern]

At least that's what it looked like to me initially

[azure bay]

you mean Bob Rafferty?

who voiced Bob

[bold cradle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrPb9MkSCtc I did watch this on dale.

disco party, who wearing deer mask

[azure bay]

David Bowles as Dale and Bob Rafferty as Bob

[bold cradle]

Wait.

Then is he Bob?

[azure bay]

I don't think so

Rafferty is Dr. Hoorn in life action

Hill just doesn't make sense

[bold cradle]

But hair style looks like bob.

[azure bay]

which Bob?

[bold cradle]

The white door's bob

[azure bay]

he's not even a doctor

he's a factory worker that was fired

[bold cradle]

Yes. But nurse did get he out

[azure bay]

he just isn't qualified

and he's 41 in 1972

it's 2001-2003 on the tapes

he should be 70

[bold cradle]

Hmmm too much time left...

[azure bay]

the doctor has no way being 70

just let it die

[bold cradle]

Anyway bestkeptmemory is not good facility that I think

They used the black cube for change the past. If they can't what they want, they did messed up alike the dog.

[vague imp]

I think that the white door facility could be a premise to bestkeptmemory. Like they were conducting experiments and then moved on to a new level

[bold cradle]

BestKeptMemory(Was The whitedoor)

It can be sense hmm

They have a connection.

[azure bay]

it's not confirmed yet

[bold cradle]

BestKeptMemory noticed on Homepage a little.

[ebon aspen]

Bkm seems like a complete diff type of business (ofc, still related to memory research and prolly managed by owl or his accomplices)

[azure bay]

wdym?

[ebon aspen]

It feels like they wanted to make available a friendlier and more useful service for the general public so they could gather more test subjects

[azure bay]

and it still could be both TWD or their concurrent

[bold cradle]

In bkm homepage, the white door did advertise on there

[azure bay]

never seen

coffee, lottery, math problem yeah

not TWD

[ebon aspen]

I doubt its managed by diff ppl, why introducing yet another person/crew involved in cube researching? Sure, it could be managed by someone totally unaware of mr owl or the lake that just happened to come across the cubes, but unlikely imo

It being mr owl opening another branch for a diff approach seems more reasonable to assume

[azure bay]

could be Albert

[bold cradle]

I think...
TWD : make a black cube
BKM : use a black cube for make golden cube

[azure bay]

that's not how golden cube works

[ebon aspen]

First, i still think albert is performing handshakes with owl&crew, so even if its run by him, jakob keeps an eye on it (he would be spying on it either way, its memory research after all)
But lets assume albert has nothing to do with owl and the bird doesnt care about bkm. That would imply we would have yet another party messing with cubes, for a reason not truly known and that would either affect owl's plans for dale and stuff or have no relevance to the plot at all. In any case, it would be a too troublesome of a "sidequest" to deal considering the main plot (yeah, ik ppl have their private lives and albert could only be trying to find happiness using the concepts also applied by owl, but deviating that much from the main story just feel nonsensical, even if albert is a fan fav and ppl prolly wouldnt mind having lots of info on him that doesnt affect the important lore)

It... just feels weird bkm having no relation to twd/owl at all

[azure bay]

I'd really like to watch an opposing master mind

[azure bay]

TWD is a mental health institute

they did the research

they made memory projection possible

also they are curing people

BKM is a memory-related business

they provide memory-related services to mentally stable people

[bold cradle]

In the white door arg, they also did detain the person.

[azure bay]

it was legal and in their competence

these people were mentally ill

they were patients

[bold cradle]

Through the arg, nurse get free them all.

[azure bay]

at least on paper

[azure bay]

If you think TWD exists for creating black cubes, you are probably right

but I think BKM is for the same reason

they just exploit different memory sources

one is for ill people the other for the healthy part of population

but it's not about creating golden cubes

The Cave golden cube wasn't created from regular memories

these were William's memories about elixir formula

[bold cradle]

yes. so BKM did use the black cube at remove trauma or something. everytime they didn't use the black cube.

just reminding the past, they don't use the black cube

but stunt man want to remove trauma, they use the black cube.

[azure bay]

Technically that would be painful memory extraction

The black cube could be used as a vessel

The problem is so was the couple's request

And I don't recall them using the cube that time

[bold cradle]

last of the video, black cube are missing.

before the Procedure, black cube remains on the table

[azure bay]

Sorry, I don't understand. Please, paraphrase

[bold cradle]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQovNUH0Fls|| look at the table before the procedure, and after.

[azure bay]

Ok but was it used FOR the procedure?

[bold cradle]

it can be answer stunt man's video.

[azure bay]

Not necessarily

[bold cradle]

in the stuntman's video, they bring the cube to him

[azure bay]

Only him. That's my problem

It's not necessarily the case for others

[bold cradle]

other person just want to extract the memory. but will fenn's video, black cube disappears too.

even his dog doesn't dead before procedure, he left alone.

[azure bay]

If I understand correctly, his request was memory preservation. They were just altered in addition to that for some reason.

[bold cradle]

yes. so they did use the black cube

for erase the memory

[azure bay]

Erace and alter are different procedures

You don't need any cube to alter memories in TWD

[bold cradle]

nurse used the black cube to the bob for erase laura.

[azure bay]

She didn't

[bold cradle]

she did.

[azure bay]

It was a machine

It was a machine

[bold cradle]

she did make a erase by machine connected on blackcube.

[azure bay]

Connected how?

You mean

Inside the machine or inside Bob's head?

[bold cradle]

This machine

[azure bay]

.

[bold cradle]

She did erase the laura in the bob's head.

[azure bay]

I know what she did

Where is the cube?

[bold cradle]

Above the marks. It was black first.

[azure bay]

Let me check please

[bold cradle]

She did erase that, it changed golden.

I think I remember like that...

[azure bay]

I'm sorry but it doesn't look like black cube. Would be cool tho

[bold cradle]

Hmm it is not correct but BKM use the blackcube for erase the memory.

They did that 'experimental' way.

[azure bay]

Probably*

You come to a conclusion too early

[bold cradle]

In TPW, albert use the golden cube and black cube to changing the past and future.

[azure bay]

It's different

You speak of using some external memory cubes to change the cubes inside people's heads

[bold cradle]

No it is same. Because BKM is TPW's ARG.

[azure bay]

Xhaddai, please, listen, you conclude things too early and then try to connect them to other things. That's irrational

[bold cradle]

someone did try first, then they try to use other person experimentaly.

so I did guess 'maybe rose work in BKM'

[azure bay]

What Albert does is changing things INSIDE CUBES. Like Laura in Seasons and Dale in Birthday.

In BKM you state that they use cubes to change memories INSIDE HEADS. That's not the same

[azure bay]

She's effectively dead

[bold cradle]

it also not sure

[azure bay]

Not in this world

[azure bay]

It is. She ||reached the lake, she merged with her past self, her soul blossoms||. finito

[bold cradle]

hmm yes. that is you are right.

[floral mauve]

Some weeks ago, a guy said it’s golden cube since it changed to gold

[bold cradle]

in 1972, rose is already turned to tree.

then, possible person is albert, dale, mr.owl...

[azure bay]

For a moment I thought the same. Would be too easy tho. Especially in summer 1972

[vague imp]

I think Albert is certainly connected

he came back to life for a reason

but is Albert connected with Mr Owl and how

[bold cradle]

anyway, dr.Hoorn was dead on 2000?

[azure bay]

His reason could also be reaching the lake. He said be belonged there with Rose

[azure bay]

23 january

[vague imp]

i see what you mean. just it seems to me such a character wouldnt be brought back to action for just one game and nothng more

[bold cradle]

So Much close the time on BKM

[vague imp]

||especially the 'albert lives' thing makes me think so||

[bold cradle]

all of BKM's year is 2002~2003

[vague imp]

yes, thats also interesting

[bold cradle]

Dr.Hoorn murderer can be related on BKM Too.

Maybe.....

he can be albert

[vague imp]

you think someone could murder him to take over?

[bold cradle]

for black cube..?

it is just guessing.

[vague imp]

thats an interesting guess

maybe it's just me wanting that Albert takes a bigger role in it though, because I kinda really loved the way he was returned to the game

[azure bay]

Either by Owl or by the opposing force

[bold cradle]

they can co-op

[vague imp]

oh i personally would love to see that

[bold cradle]

their purpose doesn't opposite each other now.

[azure bay]

Their final goals could be different

I can't imagine Albert feeding the lake

[vague imp]

the final goals can be different but they may intersect at a point

[azure bay]

Or conflict

[bold cradle]

There are differences on final goal, but there is no reason to be hostile.

they want to get golden cube too.

but they did co-op, they can be get golden cube easily.

maaybe, they did co-op as a psychiatric hospital...

Alike TWD, BKM

albert knows how to make a golden cube.
Mr.Owl knows How to make a Perfect Elixir.
Perfect Elixir need to Golden Cube when it make.

[azure bay]

Are you sure you know Albert's final goal?

[bold cradle]

vengence?

[azure bay]

To whom?

[vague imp]

i kinda think his goal is unclear yet

theres no one to take revenge on for him now

[bold cradle]

his goal is not reveal now

[vague imp]

all his family is dead except Aldous, whom he never knew

[bold cradle]

recent goal was resurrection

[azure bay]

Then how do you know he can cooperate with Owl or Dale?

For me, it's either Owl/Dale behind BKM or Albert

[bold cradle]

there is no agressive on them, because they are not harm to him.

[azure bay]

They have power. That's already a good reason to want to throw them down

Also it could be personal

He could blame them for his miserable life

[vague imp]

i think he could collaborate with them (not ultra sure tho) because it could be required his personal goal (which we dont know yet)

at the same time in all the games the image of deer was shown as an evil hostile thing, opposite to images of Owl, etc., which could go against this theory

[azure bay]

Albert's deer is demonic

Nicolas' and Dale's ones are noble

Even tho Nicolas is kinda evil

[bold cradle]

But they did ruin other person's life too.

Mr.owl did revenge on old his family too cruel.

[azure bay]

For Nicolas it's kinda totemic animal. For Albert it's diabolical symbol.

[azure bay]

Not necessarily. The final goal was the white prophecy cube

[vague imp]

I think it wasnt that of revenge. Eilanders just tend to put their spiritual goals over human lives

[bold cradle]

And albert did murder his family so cruel too but, it was based on karma.

His bee-phobia based on his brother and sister.

[azure bay]

If karma was a thing, CS wouldn't be that easy to summon

[vague imp]

but i kinda still see the deer as a hostile thing, both Dale and Nicolas had those images not at their kindest moments

[azure bay]

Dale was ok in TWD

So was Mr. Deer in Hotel

[bold cradle]

And dale, for chosen on lake he need to murder laura.

[vague imp]

and i kinda thought it was a hint (and still think so) at Dale's partial corruption

[azure bay]

That's not that easy

[vague imp]

hmmm i kinda take all the hotel guests as the hostile force

[azure bay]

Paradox is a dream

It's not real

[bold cradle]

To save a laura, he need to suicide with poison on paradox

[azure bay]

Symbolic at most

[azure bay]

That's just the rule of elixir

One dies the other finds enlightenment

[bold cradle]

But remain one is dale.

It means laura is dead already

[azure bay]

Nevertheless it's not related to deer

Crow, Owl, Pigeon, Rabbit, Boar, Pheaseant - all needed a sacrifice for ascension

[bold cradle]

In the hotel. They were elilander before.

[azure bay]

And they sacrificed Jakob

[bold cradle]

Mr.owl invite them all, and kill by the dale

It is revenge of mr.owl.

[azure bay]

Dale wasn't even born when Hotel took place

[bold cradle]

He arrived on hotel through cube

[azure bay]

It was a prophecy

And the final goal of the game

Owl killed everyone to get their future memories

Revenge is optional and unnecessary

We play as Harvey

It's confirmed

[bold cradle]

But important thing is 'no one good and bad' in rustylake game.

[azure bay]

Dale is relatively good

[bold cradle]

He was. But not now

[azure bay]

When is "now"?

[vague imp]

Dale is unclear

[bold cradle]

After paradox, he is not good person anymore

[vague imp]

his memories could have been tampered with

[bold cradle]

He related on TWD deeply.

[azure bay]

Paradox is a dream, not real, symbolic at most. And even if it was real, it wasn't Dale killing Laura, it was his corrupted soul that technically isn't him.

Corruption changes people

[bold cradle]

It means he did collaborate with TWD for detaining other person.

It is not good at human society.

[azure bay]

TWD is months before Paradox

The Lost Soul episode is more than a year prior

[bold cradle]

Already he is not innocent.

[azure bay]

How?

[vague imp]

hmmm what do you think was the meaning of his corrupted soul killing Laura?

[bold cradle]

When he helps mr.owl, he already know about what he did.

[azure bay]

Whed does he help him???

[vague imp]

lol this is my fave channel today 😄

[azure bay]

Either his corrupted soul (not him) pushing her to suicide. Or her being sacrificed for the elixir ritual

[bold cradle]

Look. TWD is rustylake's hospital and Mr.Owl and Crow works on there.

Mr.crow did psychological doctor on the paradox.

[azure bay]

Dale was never at TWD facility. He was either investigating Case 23 or solving puzzles in the chapel

The Lost Soul sequence was Bob's fever dream

[bold cradle]

It is not just dream it also his past.

[azure bay]

In the game it was presented as a dream about a mamory of another dream

Just look at the beginning

He rides in a bullet car around the city with giant donuts and TV sets

It's what he saw right after he shot himself

[bold cradle]

In his dream, he did dream about his fired before, then it also might be dream

[vague imp]

i would kinda go for the corrupted soul theory

then it would make sense

[azure bay]

I mean, Bob was fired and Bob shot himself but The Lost Soul is what he sees having a hole in his head. In the reality he was still in the theater

A hallucination

[bold cradle]

I did say he fired on his job in the his dream

Then was it dream too?

[azure bay]

You seem not to understand the difference

The dreams seen during TWD are memories

Most of them are accurate

They show what happened in the reality

Except The Lost Soul

It was a fever deeam he saw after shooting himself

And in TWD he saw a dream about a dream

That specific night

[bold cradle]

But he already corrupted on theatre

[azure bay]

Bob was corrupted up to 3 times

And each time he somehow turns back human

[bold cradle]

Then after what he saw before, was it just fever dream?

It doesn't make sense That My side.

[azure bay]

In CE Theatre Bob went corrupted not after the shot but after memory extraction

Between that much time passed

He sees TLS during that time

[bold cradle]

Then it is weird when he remember when he fired on his job.

[azure bay]

Why?

[bold cradle]

It was more long year before left that

[azure bay]

Sorry, but it's not english, I can't understand the sentance. Please paraphrase it

[bold cradle]

So what do you want from here, do you want to write the canon?

[azure bay]

I want you to have an accurate timeline picture

[bold cradle]

I already saw and and talk with you now

[azure bay]

And also understand that Dale isn't related to TWD during the game

[azure bay]

I don't understand your confusion

[bold cradle]

I either

[azure bay]

The timeline I described makes sense. But something about Bob being fired doesn't for you and I don't get why

[bold cradle]

It is not continue at line.

[azure bay]

Again, I don't understand your english. What line?

[bold cradle]

Dale moved on another timeline manytime

[azure bay]

It happened during specific time period and has specific destinations

Dale had 2 timeline detours

Birthday and Theatre

Both happened in late winter 1972

[bold cradle]

I mean, RL's story is not linear story.

Dale moved in another timeline and also laura does too.

[azure bay]

Dale's story has the only branch. Otherwise he's completely in line with Bob

Dale doesn't live in timelines he created. He always returns to the one he belongs to

[bold cradle]

As a detective, you says.

Dale did intervene on birthday.

[azure bay]

We know nothing about his life after ascension

[azure bay]

And then he stepped out the cube back into the real elevator that was taking him to the real hotel

The one he was heading from the beginning

Birthday is just a little detour

[bold cradle]

And his final is paradox you understand maybe.

But in the paradox he did moved in past and future and present

[azure bay]

I have strong reasons to think that Paradox takes place before Birthday/Theatre

[bold cradle]

And finally he chosen by rustylake.

[azure bay]

It's all about the ch2 ending

The secret one

[bold cradle]

After paradox, he can be move another timeline too

[bold cradle]

I know, so I said poison.

[azure bay]

That's a strong statement you have no evidence to back

[bold cradle]

But it is not true ending.

[azure bay]

The other one

[bold cradle]

Yea green one you say

Already i know

[azure bay]

No

Please

Stop putting words in my mouth and listen

The elevator ending indicates that Paradox takes place during The Cave.

And The Cave is before Birthday/Theatre

I expect a game about Dale in the hotel after Birthday/Theatre

That will be his finale

Predicted in RL Hotel game

We don't know and have no way to know what Dale's abilities will be after that

[bold cradle]

Yes. But I did says 'dale and albert can be co-op'

[azure bay]

it's not what we discuss

we discuss whether Dale is a bad person

you accuse him of helping TWD

but he has no way to be there at the time yet

[bold cradle]

I did says before. you did say albert is demonic, he doesn't co-op

[azure bay]

that's not my point

[bold cradle]

So I did says dale is not innocent too

[azure bay]

I was saying Deer form doesn't make Dale evil

[bold cradle]

Even he did chosen on the rustylake,

He can't be innocent.

[azure bay]

that has nothing to do with potential Albert collab

[azure bay]

why

[bold cradle]

Chosen by rustylake means 'he need sacrifice other person for he lives'

[azure bay]

not really but I agree with sacrifice necessity

[bold cradle]

It is albert too.

[azure bay]

Albert's actions are of a different nature. They have nothing to do with elixir sacrifices

[bold cradle]

For resurrect his body, he did sacrifice his daughter, rose.

[azure bay]

that's just not true

[bold cradle]

Rose did sacrificed for his father.

[azure bay]

that's just not true

she sacrificed nothing

she ||used a machine to recreate his body using his own substances||

what happens next is a different matter and there's no sacrifice either

no

that wasn't

[bold cradle]

I think it is sacrifice.

[azure bay]

Albert told ||that they are trapped in cubes|| after he was resurrected

but ||"there is a way out, to the lake where we both belong"||

so it's not sacrifice

it's liberation

and it has nothing to do with his resurrection

[bold cradle]

But activating person is rose, not albert.

[azure bay]

Albert had all chances to follow her

[bold cradle]

He sacrifice rose for resurrect.

But

Here is difference on dale.

[azure bay]

that's just BS. He's resurrected and only then he does whatever he does with cubes. No connection

[bold cradle]

At least, rose knows about that already.

[azure bay]

and it's not even a sacrifice

it's liberation from ||the cubes||

[bold cradle]

But for get out the cube machine, he decide to sacrifice rose.

[azure bay]

//_-

what cube machine?

[bold cradle]

TPW, They are trapped cube machine.

[azure bay]

it's like you didn't play. The cubes where out the devices by the end

also, the ending's tone was positive. It can't be sacrifice

[bold cradle]

TPW is escaping cube machine, the past in future's cube, the future in the past cube.

[azure bay]

(wow. Just noted NoFlafor's avatar. She's canon now)

[azure bay]

the cubical device ||is just a tool to manipulate the cube's insides|| you don't need to escape it

[bold cradle]

But albert need to escape it.

So he did sacrifice rose.

[azure bay]

to ||the lake. Where he and Rose belong to||

together

together

[bold cradle]

Only albert outs.

[azure bay]

because that's what happens when ||you reach the lake where time doesn't exist.||

If albert followed her (and he said he would) he did exactly the same

[bold cradle]

I understand about 'albert is not'

[covert wyvern]

Yes!

@bold cradle please spoilertag tpw content.

[bold cradle]

Oh

Sorry

[azure bay]

and again ||turning into a tree|| had a positive tone

||"your soul blossoms"|| has good connotations

[bold cradle]

And ||laura left alone||

[azure bay]

Laura never left

Laura chose to stay

[bold cradle]

I mean she is no family left.

[azure bay]

are

well

she was already dead in that timeline

in the other one where she lives that probably wouldn't matter

the parents are better to leave the world before their children. not the other way around

[bold cradle]

But that tree||(was rose)||, remains. Her photo so much.

[azure bay]

there are ||2 versions|| of the tree. So I think it's just a reference

it's also ||in the lake||, not near Laura's house

[bold cradle]

||The tree in the Laura's photo is rose||

[azure bay]

that just doesn't make sense

Rose is ||in the lake||

the tree is not there

[bold cradle]

Why not? ||Past rose did become the tree when albert out||

[azure bay]

location

and flower color

it's pink only in the butterfly route

in the bee route it's white

[bold cradle]

||bee mode's white||

Yes. It is.

[azure bay]

and location

I tell you for the 3rd time

Rose is ||in the lake||

Laura's house is not

it's not the same ||tree||

[bold cradle]

It is not meaning ||rose tree must go to lake||

[azure bay]

it does, so says the game

[bold cradle]

Only rose's spirit can go to the lake

[vague imp]

I think we don't know yet exactly what going to the lake means

Like fully

[bold cradle]

Yes. It is.

[vague imp]

To me it looks like a certain form of ascension, like Mr Owls

[azure bay]

it looked literal. ||the lake is the only real place. everything else are someone's memories floating in it||

[bold cradle]

There....will....be....bloooood....

[azure bay]

and you are also forgetting about the bee

||Laura's tree|| is never white

this ambiguity means that ||Rose's tree flower color|| is a reference

in one route it's a reference to Seasons

in the other one to Birthday

[bold cradle]

Hmmm

Multiple universe?

[azure bay]

not sure if it's applicable to the lake tho

[bold cradle]

If it is multiple universe, ||albert makes a big trouble||, tho...

[azure bay]

rather multiple small ones

[bold cradle]

If it is right, ||White tree and pink tree is diffrent universe||

[azure bay]

but that doesn't mean that different ||Alberts work together||

also

||the lake is already a multiverse||

[bold cradle]

It sounds creepy but I like it

||Albert is everywhere!!||

[faint flame]

I have a question
If Mr. Owl's main plan is to create the complete elixir (golden cube), why do TWD and BKM continue to extract memories in the cubes, since they have now found Dale and Laura to create the elixir? Maybe they do it to keep feeding the lake of memories?

[azure bay]

1. the cubes are primarily needed to feed the lake

2. I don't believe that the full elixir is a new thing. All the elixirs are the same. Owl just had a weaker elixir extract at the time not the full dose.

Caroline's elixir was listed in her book and resulted into a cube

it was created from her memories of the elixir formula in the Paradise ending

Vanderboom's elixir, according to Paradox movie, was created based on the same formula

The golden cube was created using memories of the elixir formula again

that time they belonged to William

and, as I've just said, William had recreated Caroline's formula

so all 3 elixir share the formula

and are meant to become a cube, according to Caroline's drawings

@faint flame the most full answer

[faint flame]

Ok perfect thanks a lot, hence my second question:
why Dale and Laura to create the golden cube? Perhaps because Laura, having been William in her previous life, keeps somewhere in her memories the elements of the "old elixir", while Dale could be "the new advancing one", giving what is missing to the elixir to make it more powerful than to the past?

[azure bay]

I repeat, I see the elixir being the same. I'm not sure why they needed Laura in person and not only her memories but Dale is the chosen one Owl saw in a prophecy cube.

What does it mean? Hard to tell for sure. My guess, it's because of his potential. He has traumas to overcome and able to get "the higher state of consciousness" (probably a spiritual growth enough to make the same elixir have the maximal effect)

[faint flame]

Perfect thanks, I'm heartened that we are all still doubtful about the underlying reasons for choosing the two of them as the chosen couple for the elixir😂

[azure bay]

the only reason Owl needed is seeing Dale in the future on exactly that place

a self fulfilling prophecy

[faint flame]

Yes exactly, also because he could choose anyone. If he chose him, the theory of prophecy is currently the only one more evident

[azure bay]

I guess there could be reasons why Dale qualifies the best

the elixir makes him a god, not a demi-god as usual

why?

long story

if you ping me later I'll be glad to share it

[faint flame]

Probably for the background story of the Buddhist wheel, Karma and all that stuff. The elixir does a sort of "scanning" of the person it has to elevate, and based on his past and his actions decides in which of the six segments to have him reincarnated. Dale is probably deemed worthy of the elixir to attain a higher form than Owl and Crow

[azure bay]

Karma doesn't seem to be a thing in RL

At least there are so many ways to bypass it

[faint flame]

Yes, perhaps better to refer only to the 6-segment Buddhist wheel

[bright parrot]

Karma means "work or what we do"
Here in RL the form the acquire after death is a result of their karma

Although it may not be that important but it plays a role

[azure bay]

How would memory extraction qualify as karma when resulting into preta?

[bright parrot]

It is said that the form of a person is defined based on their karma.
And preta is soul. A soul is like liquid which can be filled in any vessel.

An organism will not become preta due to its karma

What an organism will become after preta is determined by its karma

[azure bay]

I was convinced that pretas are hungry ghosts, souls unable to be reborn until they suffer enough to clear their karma

[bright parrot]

That's one way to say it

But what I've learnt is that

A preta will get new vessel according to its karma in some time

He I believe preta is ghost

More than soul

A ghost is a creature of hell.
Which as you said has to clear its dues to be reborn

But what I said can be proved by Roots.
We played as William's soul which was not corrupted (as far as it seems to me) and William creates a vessel for himself

The loophole here is that origin of preta is not that convincing and if there is Corrupted soul there must be a good or neutral soul.

[faint flame]

Well, today I'm in the mood to share theories😂

Second question:

What do you think of the White Rabbit (aka David Eilander) in Birthday? I have two different theories, very speculative and difficult to prove, but first I would like to hear your opinion

[azure bay]

Uncorrupted souls look differently

Jakob in Paradise ending after he was burnt

That's how souls look

Like the bodies they used to occupy

[bright parrot]

If thats what soul is

Then preta or CS is not soul

Its more of a ghost

And thats correct

It fits the mythology

[azure bay]

Except the looks

[bright parrot]

Every mythology got different looks

So here's what I think

William was a CS

And made himself an artificial vessel

And messing with principles of god

Which aldous understood

And now Aldous and Owl are trying to punish William

Which they cant do (idk why maybe due to their forms as they are also creatures of hell)

So they are guiding Dale

[bright parrot]

I believe Rabbit was a pawn.
And maybe that was the assignment he was given so he may get salvation.

[faint flame]

in a few minutes I'll explain my theories about mr.rabbit

Premise: In Birthday we clearly see how Mr.Rabbit is a bodily, physical, living entity, and not a corrupted soul (when he is shot, blood comes out of the wound; it would be impossible if he were a corrupted soul).
Consequently, how is this possible if we know that in 1939 Mr.Rabbit was already dead (Hotel - 1893) and is a corrupted soul wandering in the lake? (as we can see in The Cave in 1972)

I tried to give myself an answer with these two theories

First theory (the more likely of the two):

[bright parrot]

He is asura

@azure bay

Check the timeline for hotel and bday.

I believe there are 2 rabbits

[faint flame]

Yep, there are 2 rabbits

[bright parrot]

Then who's the 2nd rabbit
The brown one

[faint flame]

The first theory I have assumes that Mr. Rabbit is corporeal as he goes to Dale's birthday, kills his family and takes the gun his sister was killed with in the Hotel (a substance from his past life), hypothetically needed to somehow go back in time and prevent him from being killed in the Hotel, escaping that condition.
This may explain why we see 2 rabbits in the Hotel (the one passing through the window is the corrupted soul who traveled back in time to prevent the rabbit's death). And it might also explain why Mr. Rabbit is corporeal on his birthday: by going back he prevented his death, so he never became a corrupted soul and was always alive; to do this, however, he will be forced every time in the time circle to go back to prevent his death in the Hotel.

[delicate atlas]

Never noticed the gun thing

[faint flame]

Unfortunately for him, Dale with the help of Crow and Owl manage to shoot him before he killed Dale's family, breaking the loop and preventing Mr.Rabbit from saving himself by going back in time ----> Mr.Rabbit so he actually stays a corrupted soul (The Cave 1972) because he couldn't save himself.

It's a bit convoluted but it could be interesting

When you have time, tell me what you think and then I'll move on to the second theory

[bright parrot]

That's a bit confusing and Interstellar type thing.
Maybe I'll need a notebook pen

Plus if you are talking about CS of animal hybrids
They are from RL hotel

[faint flame]

Yep, I know the hybrid souls are those of the animals in the Hotel

[delicate atlas]

Imo mr. Rabbit's cs is wearing a mask

[faint flame]

However yes, it is a complex theory based on the fact that we see over the years the causes and effects of these eventual loops that are maintained (hypothetically Mr.Rabbit to remain corporeal is continually forced to go back in time to prevent his death) or interrupted (finally at some point Dale interrupts the loop by shooting him)

[faint flame]

And here we connect to the second theory that I hypothesized, decidedly crazy😂

Second theory: the only clues (unfortunately not demonstrable) that made me speculate about it are: in Birthday Mr.Rabbit wears clothes practically identical to Albert / Mr.Rabbit in Birthday wears a mask (oh shit, just like Albert) 👀

[delicate atlas]

Mr. Rabbit is David Eilander

[faint flame]

My crazy theory is that since we now know that in the 1980s Albert is alive as resurrected, he could for some unknown reason have gone back in time in his classic suits and bunny mask, with the intended to kill Dale's parents so that Dale could become an inspector.
Think about it, Dale would never have made an inspector if his family had never been killed. If Dale hadn't become an Inspector, he would never have discovered Laura's body and would never have started her journey.
Albert would somehow just make Dale's fate come true maybe

This is the less likely theory of the two of course

[delicate atlas]

It's confirmed in paradox

[delicate atlas]

Question, did you play paradise?

[faint flame]

Sure, I've played all the games millions of times

[delicate atlas]

Also, imo dale becoming a detective because of his parents' death is part of Mr. Owl's plan

[delicate atlas]

So you remember when the family members wear masks?

And they look like the animals from hotel

Because they will be reincarnated as those animals

And in paradox chapter 2, there's a phonebook where Mr. Rabbit's number is

And the name says "Eilander D."

As in Dave Eilander

Mr. Owl's younger brother

Hope this clears things up

[faint flame]

Yep, I know very well that the animals in Hotel are the reincarnation of those in Paradise

[delicate atlas]

Then why are you saying Albert is mr. Rabbit? I'm kinda confused

I think the suit thing is just the artist reusing designs and already existing assets

[faint flame]

Yes, but in fact I preferred to specify that this was a very approximate theory, based on unclear elements

[delicate atlas]

I see

[bright parrot]

Let me recite your theory 1

And point me where I am wrong

[faint flame]

Let's remember that in 1939 Mr. Rabbit is already dead, so if Dale called him on the phone to do the magic show... he wouldn't have to answer anyone. According to this (I repeat, very unlikely) theory of Albert's, maybe he answered the phone posing as D. Eilander

But then again, the only clues that made me think this were Mr.Rabbit's clothes and mask. Very approximate clues

[bright parrot]

We have 2 rabbits 1(white)&2(brown)
1 kills Vandermeers to get the gun to kill harvey(asura form) to save 2 from getting killed.
But dale killed 1 in bday so 1 can't save 2.
@faint flame

Right or wrong

[delicate atlas]

Paradox is an alternative reality inside Dale's mind

Nothing happened in it is 100% real

[delicate atlas]

Where did this theory come from? This is news to me

[slow ridge]

Speaking of mr rabbit, I think the mr rabbit in the hotel is still david. There's a theory saying that real rabbits change their fur depends on seasons. Artic rabbit are white in winter but brown in summer (they shed their skin). Also, we can see mr rabbit trapped in the machine with the others too. That's why they're the same

[carmine elk]

That’s so silly /pos

[bright parrot]

This is the theory of person I pinged
But it is wrong according to me

[faint flame]

Perfectly right

[bright parrot]

@faint flame
I find your theory 1 wrong as RL Bday is in Dale's mind and Rabbit asura will be reborn as some other form rather than being rabbit again

Plus time travel is not yet confirmed in RL atleast in game reality (it's been done in memories)

[slow ridge]

But I still wonder why does he have to kill Dale's family. I mean he kills them all in his birthday and just to take a gun away, the gun which kills Ms Pheasant, because it is the 'substance' he needs for escaping his state. So why don't he just ask for it or steal it with his magic tricks?

[bright parrot]

Gun case requires coin to open which is held secure

[slow ridge]

And why does he need the gun? It doesn't really related with him. Maybe a card or sword (he is stabbed in the hotel), but why ms pheasant's gun

[delicate atlas]

CS being violent moment

[delicate atlas]

Good question actually

[slow ridge]

I know, just feel curious

I don't think Albert will pose as David. They are devious in their own ways and Albert does not need to pretend to be him

[delicate atlas]

And has nothing to do with mr. Owl's plans

[faint flame]

In fact, I believe that my two theories are false for various reasons, I just wanted to share them
We hope sooner or later to have some answers about Mr.Rabbit's story, since for me the presence of the two rabbits and the real motivations that led him to steal the gun and kill Dale's family have always remained a mystery
Also why, in all of this, how and why was Dale's family in possession of a gun used years earlier by Harvey to commit murders?😂

[floral mauve]

He said he wants to escape his current state

his goal is quite clear

basically Albert

[azure bay]

I find this wrong

[bright parrot]

Same

[bright parrot]

What do you think of my theory

[covert wyvern]

isnt that all but confirmed in Samsara room

or does going through rebirth not count as being corrupted.

[bright parrot]

Nah that punishment thing

Or why they want dale

Or who is wrong and write

[azure bay]

The punishment thing is out of blue

Aldous was actively helping with reborth

Heck. Considering he knows nothing about elixir making he it could be his idea and research for a backup plan

[woven harness]

hello i just got here imma tell u guys what i understand after playing all the games

correct me if im wrong

basically there's two brothers and they created an elixir that either makes them die or live forever, one drank it and died and the other lived forever(mr crow) now idk what's the connection between them and the rest of the family but, i assumed that its the grandfather of the 4 siblings

now james and mary fell in love and had triplets (emma samuel and robert) and later their sister ida im not sure if she's older or younger, probably was mentioned in roberts game the past within but i must have missed it

albert made his daughter rose in the lab where the elixir was made

he used to get bullied he mostly hated his siblings(awful btw lol)

[bright parrot]

Hello lenni
That's how elixir works two people drink it
One dies and another lives

[woven harness]

thank you for clarifying

[bright parrot]

Have you played all the games

[woven harness]

yes

[bright parrot]

Nice

[woven harness]

what abput ypu

you

[bright parrot]

I've played all of those long ago

[woven harness]

im mad at myself for not knowing about their existence before

[bright parrot]

Then you must be happy for yourself coz you know them now.

Coming back to theory

[woven harness]

haha thank you for taking the time to read

[bright parrot]

Roots tells us about the family tree of vanderbooms

[woven harness]

yes and it clarified so much

[bright parrot]

😅 Actually it took me long to reply coz English is not my first language.

[bright parrot]

Paradise is about eilanders

[woven harness]

it's not my first either so i understand and i appreciate it a lot

[bright parrot]

Paradise was destroyed

And hotel was built on that land

[woven harness]

are they related to the vanderbooms

[bright parrot]

Hotel is owned by jakob who is Mr. Owl

[bright parrot]

Not by blood
But maybe he's the boss of crow

[woven harness]

i see

[bright parrot]

Now laura is dead

[woven harness]

i didnt understand their story, where did the mom go

did she sacrifice herself

[bright parrot]

They killed her

As a ritual

To avoid plaques of lake

[woven harness]

is this where the game ends

[bright parrot]

@azure bay that reminds me the plaques started when they killed caroline and it was not delayed by a sacrifice

[bright parrot]

No that's where it starts

Jakob comes home after her mother's death

[woven harness]

ohmygod

mr owl is the sonnn

[bright parrot]

Only to find uot she's been killed by her husband

And there are plaques

Etc.

Paradise is the journey of Jakob to Mr. Owl

Roots is journey of William to Laura

And the free games (except Arels) are the main timeline

[woven harness]

is william the brother who lived

[bright parrot]

William is the one who died

[woven harness]

ohh

[bright parrot]

Aldous (crow) lived

We play as William's soul

[woven harness]

in what game

[bright parrot]

To help him create a vessel for him

[woven harness]

is the black figure william

[bright parrot]

ie. Laura

Not in every game

[bright parrot]

Roots

[woven harness]

the white door ?

[bright parrot]

Black figure is soul

[bright parrot]

That's Bob's soul

[woven harness]

whos bob

why did laura die and whos the guy that was trapped in the room (the movie

[bright parrot]

Bob is Laura's boyfriend

[woven harness]

yes that guy

[bright parrot]

Who shot himself in head

[woven harness]

the guy trapped

got it

its so amazing how you see both povs

[bright parrot]

We don't know how laura died.
Many people many answers.

The trapped guy is detective dale vandermeer

[woven harness]

case 23 is laura's case?

[bright parrot]

Yes

Dale investigates Laura's house

And in seasons we are laura

[woven harness]

i have a question

hopefully im not mistaken

in roots at the end, frank and rose dance together

she wears the same dress as laura's

am i wrong?

[bright parrot]

Laura is Rose's daughter (apparently)

Laura is also the reincarnated William

[woven harness]

from frank?

[bright parrot]

That we don't know

[woven harness]

oh right rose helped william live?

[bright parrot]

She sat in clock and came out with laura

[woven harness]

what is harvey's box about

[bright parrot]

Its about Harvey

[woven harness]

who is harvey

[fierce beacon]

youre in the perspective of the bird

[woven harness]

the crow?

[fierce beacon]

no the parrot

[bright parrot]

[woven harness]

who is the parrot

[bright parrot]

This guy

[woven harness]

i see

who is harvey

[azure bay]

"some kind of a guide who's ancient"

If we believe people who asked the same question to the devs

[woven harness]

in birthday who's birthday are we celebrating

dale?

[azure bay]

Isn't it obvious?

[woven harness]

how did grandpa know

[azure bay]

I think Dale tried to tell everyone and he was the only adult cool enough to take him srsly

[woven harness]

right

[woven harness]

THE bird

[azure bay]

What r u trying to say here?

[woven harness]

showing me who the parrot is

[fierce beacon]

yea

just extra info

[azure bay]

That's... weird, tbh

[fierce beacon]

sorry?

[woven harness]

how is that weird lolll

[azure bay]

Imagine one would ask who Mr. Crow is. And instead of saying that he used to be an alchemist named Aldous you just send a screenshot of Mr. Crow

Technically yeah

[woven harness]

hahahaha

[azure bay]

That's Mr. Crow. But that doesn't make it clear

[woven harness]

who is the parrot tho

[fierce beacon]

well yea ig

harvey is lauras pet i think

[azure bay]

"some kind of a guide who's ancient"
If we believe people who asked the same question to the devs

[woven harness]

oh yes sprry

[azure bay]

I'd say he was Owl's agent spying on her

[woven harness]

sorry

what does van gogh have to do with any of this

[fierce beacon]

no clue

[azure bay]

At least he was used to show how RL works throush a perspective of some IRL person

At most in this universe he was cured in RL Hotel instead of St. Paul asylum in St. Remi

[woven harness]

damn

what do we learn from the hotel other than all visitors get sacrificed

[azure bay]

Owl discovered Dale for the 1st time trough a future memory he got from them

[woven harness]

is this how he got to dale

[azure bay]

I think not yet. In The Mill letter to Crow he told that he discovered Dale recently.

I see why. In Hotel he saw a middle-aged man wearing a suit that wasn't even born yet. No name, no biography. Just face

[woven harness]

makes sense

whos samsara

[azure bay]

It's not a person

It's a rebirth system from Indian mythology

[woven harness]

thank you

[median solstice]

Dale the forgotten child LOL

[stone bramble]

dale the forgotten child who’s left alone in the rain after soccer practice and all the kids have been picked up by their parents. But it’s not because his parents forgot it’s because they’re fucking dead 💀

I do wonder if mr rabbit showing up to dale’s bday and killing his parents was just mr owl time traveling and messing stuff up or changing the cubes’ contents

[covert wyvern]

Worth writing a fanfic about, not sure about a theory

[azure bay]

on the contrary, Owl was messing up the cubes' contents to prevent that from happenning

[stone bramble]

oh yee tru

so yeah mr owl and crow was just stalking baby dale huh

[azure bay]

Future Owl and Crow*

[terse crow]

In philosophy class our main theme rn is the meaning of time with life and death, and in my worksheet there is a part that talks about rebirth in a very rusty lake kinda way (i know it is inspired by Taoism) so i wanted to share it with you

HerHere's the translation:

[terse crow]

In the Taoist concept of time, linear and cyclic elements are linked. The idea of ​​an end of the world does not exist. Rather, life represents the journey of each being to rebirth at an ever higher level and ultimately to immortality.

[bright parrot]

I don't know much about taoism but the cycle of life in RL is said to be inspired from buddhism/Jainism.
Being a Jain I find this is almost same

But according to RL end of life exists
Which is moksha or enlightenment.

The cycle is so long and enlightenment is so tough to achieve

[bright parrot]

@azure bay
At the start of RL theatre which is the 2nd memory
Dale said
"The lake is changing my memories I will let the cubes guide me"

That means he noticed thaf

Something is changed in Bday

And thus made the comment

What do you think is changed

[azure bay]

Birthday

The massacre

[bright parrot]

So

Grandpa (if he existed)

Didn't belived at dale

In reality

So what made him change his mind unlike Dale's parents

[azure bay]

What are you talking about?

@bright parrot

[winged thunder]

So, I've had this weird feeling about the whole "Laura is reincarnated William" thing. And maybe it's me misunderstanding an element or two, or maybe it's the fact that I'm coming here with a background of 10+ years of analyzing Twin Peaks, but...
I get this weird feeling that Laura has a separate soul from William? Almost as if, rather than a traditional reincarnation (insofar as most people understand it), it's almost more of a possession. Like Laura is meant to be a vessel for William to return.
||With the clear parallels to Twin Peaks, we might compare this to the Laura Palmer/Killer Bob situation: Killer Bob was a parasitic entity that wanted to experience life through a human. He attempts to possess Laura Palmer, but rather than let him, she resists and, when she can no longer escape him, she chooses to be murdered and sacrificed.||
So, my proposed interpretation: Laura Vanderboom is birthed purposefully to act as a vessel for William, whose Corrupted Soul acts as a parasitic entity attempting to possess her. Laura V. rejects this, and rather than let her body be taken over by William, she chooses death.
Just an idea kicking around in my head.
EDIT: Might be a little late, added spoiler block.

[winged thunder]

The impression I got was that Mr. Crow was possessing Dale's grandpa, hence why he looks like him in the version of the memory we see.

Also, pretty sure Dale didn't know about the Mr. Rabbit assassination until the loop where he goes back and Grandpa/Mr. Crow shoots Mr. Rabbit. He couldn't have warned them, because he didn't know about it yet, so there's nothing for them to disbelieve.

Basically, timeline goes: "Yay, it's my birthday!" > "Oh crap, that rabbit just killed everyone!" > (Events of other Cube Escape games take place) > (Dale gets Blue Cube, gets sent back in time, returns to the events of his birthday) > Grandpa/Mr. Crow asks for his gun > Grandpa/Mr. Crow blows away Mr. Rabbit.

Also, I'm sure this has probably been commented upon at this point, but the device Dale gets for his birthday is the thing that enables him to come back to that point in time from the future, which effectively makes it an early version of the device seen in TPW. So, in Rusty Lake, we can see that for time travel to work, a device must be activated at the point which one plans on returning to. I can't recall immediately if there is any breaking of this rule.

[floral mauve]

Great, I got spoiler from twin peaks right on time, jk, I dont mind

https://tenor.com/view/damn-fine-cup-of-coffee-twin-peaks-dale-cooper-coffee-damn-fine-gif-13601700

I just started watching the series yesterday

[winged thunder]

OMG, I'm sorry, that is some lousy timing on my part

[floral mauve]

so far, I noticed some reference, such as owls and 1972

[floral mauve]

no worries

[winged thunder]

I got spoiled for Twin Peaks like ten years before I ever watched it

[floral mauve]

I didnt even reach the killer Bob part

[winged thunder]

Laura, Dale, and Bob are also all names of central characters from TP and Rusty Lake

Laura as the mysteriously dead girl, Bob being a suspect in the murder, and Dale being the detective

[floral mauve]

I dont think Bob played as the role of killer in RL except the time he got detained

also doesnt that make him a real murderer?

[winged thunder]

Yeah, I agree on that, Rusty Lake Bob isn't the killer unless they pull a real fast one on us

The scene where Bob gets detained is in Case 23, right? Does it get elaborated upon in The White Door (the only one I haven't played yet)? I'm not clear on how he becomes a Corrupted Soul while in custody.

[floral mauve]

it got elaborated a little bit yes

and also

remember that Bob's perspective is the most reliable one atm

thats as far as I can say without spoiling

[winged thunder]

Spoilers are fine, I know I've read the outline of all the games at some point, I just can't remember them until I actually play them. Haha. But yeah, Bob does seem to be the one who doesn't have anything really to gain or to lose in these weird supernatural shenanigans. Like, he's just tangled up in this madness.

So, he has no reason to lie. He just seems like a normal dude, not manipulative and not insane.

[floral mauve]

not lie, but in terms of memories, his memories are sort of required to stay pure or original

[winged thunder]

Ahh, I see. Interesting.

Speaking of trust, am I the only one who doesn't really trust the intentions of Mr. Crow or Mr. Owl?

[floral mauve]

whereas Dale's, in Theatre and birthday, there are some obvious things going on and pretty surreal

[winged thunder]

Like, that they're just using Dale for their own shady motives.

[floral mauve]

we dont really know their intentions

Owl is dying so he is gonna put Dale in his place according the prophecy

[winged thunder]

I don't really trust someone who wants to live forever, or is willing to let their own brother die for the chance at longevity/immortality. What exactly do they gain from this? What is the importance to keeping the Lake?

Their version of enlightenment seems... weirdly selfish, I guess is what I'm saying?

Like you said, we don't really know their intentions, so it's hard to get a read on them.

[floral mauve]

I am not sure Owl wants to live forever nor Crow willing to let William die

The brothers probably had backup plans, imagine their positions changed

William is the one that lives

they probably still have the same Roots plan

they just didint expect that the Roots plan will not keep their consciousness for next life

[winged thunder]

Aldous does seem pretty confident that he can help William when they take the Elixir. So I'm sure they had a contingency. The way that their choices branch out and negatively impact others, though, makes them seem like puppet masters in a sinister sort of way.

[floral mauve]

Jakob didnt ask to be enlightened, whereas Aldous and WIlliam both planned it, just 50/50

[winged thunder]

The fact that we know so little about what the Lake actually is also throws a wrench in the works, when it comes to theorizing.

Sorry, for some reason I misremembered that Mr Owl was William. Brain fart.

But the point about them being shady and manipulative I think still stands.

I do wonder what kind of information Jakob might have gotten from Caroline that we don't know about. Like, to Jakob, this all makes sense.
Do they give a source for that prophecy, btw? Is that from Caroline or someone else?

[floral mauve]

they are indeed

we just dont know whats their ultimate goal, maybe study full elixir (golden cube)

for what?

dont know

maybe fully understand and taken control the lake? Maybe enter nirvana if it is confirmed in RL?

[floral mauve]

So he got two prophecies, first one is quite unclear, he got it from when Jakob receives enlightenment, he saw Laura and Dale
the second one he got it after murdering the guests, he saw Dale ascending to hotel

Caroline left some murals and notes for Jakob I guess

and Jakob probably studied electrics physics and business management in his free time

[winged thunder]

I have to replay Hotel, it was the first one I played and the one I still understand the least.

[winged thunder]

Someone had to run that Hotel! Haha

[floral mauve]

and build a submarine and a complex electrical system around the lake plus cash injection for external facilities

[winged thunder]

Hahahahahaha
Dude, when you break down the facts of this game...
It's just like a million times more bizarre.

I want to know if that Hotel exists in a parallel universe or mirror dimension or what. Because Those anthropomorphic characters don't really appear in the physical plain from what I remember. Even Mr. Rabbit just looks like a dude in a rabbit mask when he offs Dale's family.

[floral mauve]

dependes on what u mean by physical plain

[winged thunder]

Like, the "normal" or "human" world, the one that's equivalent to where you and I exist.
Where Dale and Laura are when they're alive.
It seems like Mr. Crow and Mr. Owl only appear as apparitions unless Dale is like... traveling in the Cube Mobile.

[floral mauve]

maybe but also could be Owl doesnt want everyone see bird man

plus, he saves the extracts for some occasions (such as necessary to prolong life), like he has to teleport Dale or do some magic

so when he doesnt drink the extract, he is a old bald man

[azure bay]

Even with extract he can take a guise of an old man

@winged thunder speaking of William as a separate being

1. it contradicts samsara
2. killing Laura contradicts his intentions to live

[median solstice]

laura has some hidden motives because the lake calls for her (william literally told rose to revive him etc-), bob was literally a third wheel but got caught in the whole thing because he loved laura, bob was detained as a "killer" because he was dale's only lead, dale regrets detaining bob because eventually in theatre bob kashoots himself, dale didn't have a choice but be involved since it revolves around his childhood lol// the trauma trio

[bright parrot]

@azure bay

The change in the Bday event was that Grandpa killed rabbit.
So what made him believe dale.

And what are the timelines for RL hotel and RL Bday

[azure bay]

The change of birthday was Owl's present that turned the day around

[bright parrot]

Everything after placing the blue cube was edited

[azure bay]

And even some things before

[bright parrot]

Yup

[white fog]

@covert wyvern sorry to ping you for something so small but could you make a thread in here for character headcanon talk and stuff? You're the only mod onlinr and the @ \ everyone role can't make threads <:0

also sorry to whoever i pinged trying to put a slash after the @ symbol i didnt know rhat was your username 🙏

[stone bramble]

this is how obbessed I am with rusty lake atm

[white fog]

this is so true ..

[stone bramble]

im most proud of laura's

I really need to add more goth music onto rose's

WAIT THIS IS IN THEORIES THIS SINT GEN LMAO

uhhh theory that rose listens to goth music

[white fog]

LOL

[stone bramble]

albert's favorite music is listening to the screams of children ig

[white fog]

theory .. uhh 🧠 uhh 🤔 hmm. dale needs a kiss . on the head

[stone bramble]

yes

I really like how in the final dance the family tune has an album cover

were they an actual band lmao

[white fog]

they got that shit on wax cylinder !! 🎶

[covert wyvern]

Going to refrain from making threads for now sorry

[white fog]

oh okay! ty for getting back to me

[covert wyvern]

Just not the biggest fan on how threads work. They don't last long enough and I don't like how they become semi invisible if they archive themselves

[floral mauve]

Ah yes Laura Palmer

Epic eye moment

[white fog]

yeah it is annoying that they do that :(

[rigid sand]

Theory: Van Gogh and Bob Hill had the same thing happened to them - two regular dudes that came in contact with the lake and ended up with a corrupted soul in the process

[delicate atlas]

Oh interesting

And both got their memories extracted as black cubes

Van Gogh even lived on the lake

[rigid sand]

Idk if my math is right but if Hotel happened after Arles, maybe the guests was an attempt to recreate what happened to Vincent.

To me there's two branches in the fam: Mr Crow got the immortality and now he cares about the science behind it, which is why he partnered with Mr Owl at the hotel, they would be responsible for all of the facilities and whatnot. William is laser focused on resurrection and the fam.

Only the thing is that certain people can come in contact with them and not become corrupted, Dale is one, Ida is probably another.

So the story - maybe - it's simply Alduos and William constantly trying to manipulate these travellers (most of the time it's just Dale lol) and get their stuff done as quickly as possible,

[ebon aspen]

Have you played paradise?

[carmine field]

"balance the substance of your past lifes" seems to be a requirement to leave the Corrupted state, but what could it mean?

[ebon aspen]

Dealing with memories basically

[carmine field]

so... does it mean Mr. Rabbit has anything related to Dale?

[median solstice]

It's revealed in Paradox :)

[carmine field]

That magician?

I have to play it again

Everything I remember is that the magician is basically David with a rabbit mask (?), he is called and murders the family

[median solstice]

Specifically the second chapter DLC

[azure bay]

That doesn't really make sense the game is called Arles and Arles has no lakes around it. Believe me, I know that better than anyone.

[median solstice]

It's to draw reference to how the RL would work on a real person external to the clan's affairs

[azure bay]

Maybe there's more to it

I interprete certain pieces of evidence that van Gogh attended RL MH&F

[astral frost]

Can you explain? I'm interested

[delicate atlas]

I remember the lake being seen from his room window

[azure bay]

could be other memories

[delicate atlas]

I see

[deft phoenix]

Rosa hosted tea parties with summoned souls. and dot.

[median solstice]

[deft phoenix]

only not with pink cups, but with an old service and voodoo dolls of children who offend her.

[azure bay]

@delicate atlas The lake is likely situated in England.

Leonard wore an iconic brody helmet which already reduces the possible area to Britain, Canada and US.

And the year on the chapel predates colonization of America

[delicate atlas]

I don't get the last point

[median solstice]

yeah same

[delicate atlas]

But I see why you think it's in Britain

[median solstice]

also please be civil in your sharing of theories, don't try to cancel each other's opinions

[delicate atlas]

I think that could suit the cold weather of the lake too

[azure bay]

The chapel at the lake was built before Canada and US were a thing

[delicate atlas]

I meant as I don't know the relation between the date on the chapel and American colonization 😅

I'm not good with history

[delicate atlas]

Oh I see

[median solstice]

it's alright, we're meant to have fun here, you don't have to take every comment here with a grain of salt :)

[azure bay]

Theories will always collide.

A theorie's plausibility is decided by evidence for and against it and more we get evidence the smaller is the number of equally possible theories

[median solstice]

yes, and let's not passively push people down, this applies to all folks here

[azure bay]

I don't push anyone. And if I do, we have Damy

[azure bay]

It was about the paining

In RL games van Gogh's iconic Starry Night is altered to feature a familiar landscape

The original painting was drawn at St. Paul asylum in St. Remi

And featured the aforementioned village

[covert wyvern]

and others!;)

[azure bay]

(of course)

[azure bay]

So since the village was replaced by the mountains, the location the painting drawn at would probably be replaced by an asylum at the lake

[median solstice]

the most famous mod we love you

[floral mauve]

so I have replayed Cave

from tpw, we know that the gems are something special like cubes but we dont know what to be specific that made them special

then I noticed they share something in common in cave

they both generate energy which is most likely electricity

I didnt notice this before

but its quite obvious

and then in tpw, ||golden cube was generated using electricity||

thats my thoughts so far

[ebon aspen]

How was the gem created?

I really dont recall

[floral mauve]

u mean in the cave?

[ebon aspen]

Yep

[floral mauve]

Owl just took it out of nowhere

[ebon aspen]

Ah the good old materialization

[median solstice]

magic

[delicate atlas]

That's interesting

Gems are used in other games iirc like in the lake

But what about the time pieces? They're mysterious too to me

[analog yacht]

In Roots they were used to unlock the door

[covert wyvern]

@rustic niche yes || in the letter and after the chess game ||

If you get stuck again please use #tpw-help and mind your spoilers

[rustic niche]

oh fuck sorry

[covert wyvern]

It's all good:)

[azure bay]

that was fast

cool

[covert wyvern]

sometimes the bot helps out;)

[final atlas]

Anyone knows who mr. Toad really is?

[azure bay]

All the insights we have is him and Bat being humans before working for Owl

[final atlas]

Thanks.

[final atlas]

But is mr. Bat the same one from Cube Escape: the cave?

[azure bay]

I don't think so

[final atlas]

So it is like use the same style, like Dale's grandfather in Birthday looks like Aldous in some games

[azure bay]

It's probable that Dale's grandpa actually is Crow

not 100%

but still

there's evidence

[final atlas]

Vandemeer & Vanderbooms, it can't be a coincidence

[azure bay]

it can

"van der" means "of the"

[final atlas]

I did see in the Wiki, vandemeer means "from the lake" i guess

[covert wyvern]

Indeed!

And boom would translate to tree:)

[final atlas]

Woa

Now everything makes sense

The map in the globe in paradox isn't canon right?

[azure bay]

It's a pair of metaphors

[bright parrot]

The map in paradox seemed more like a journey of a character to me
Can't say which character for sure but i believe it's aldous or dale

[median solstice]

half corrupt dale

[bright parrot]

Just to be sure I want to say that
Dale is not corrupted.
We've only seen his past and paradox.
The only present we've seen is Case 23 where he was fine.

There can be one thing
That his CS is trying to take over his body

[azure bay]

He started flickering between human and corrupted states in The Cave ending and was still doing so in the elevator. Which is NOT his past

[azure bay]

Ch1 globe is about Laura, ch2 is about Dale

[bright parrot]

That means his soul is taking over his body.

We got glimpse of it in case 23

[bright parrot]

Yes this

[azure bay]

That doesn't mean that. It's only a possibility

[bright parrot]

What do you think of physical structure of soul

Is it solid

Is soul originated after death of individual
Coz that's what samsara cycle from theatre says

[azure bay]

I don't really care. That doesn't seem to affect anything

[bright parrot]

I consider CS as a state after death of physical body

That means

Dale's CS os trying to kill dale

[azure bay]

I disagree. Bob was pretty much alive

And Jacob wasn't corrupted after his death

[bright parrot]

Bob is not a complete CS

He switches between

[median solstice]

CS is a soul that can also become corrupt after the memories are altered or extracted not only after death

[bright parrot]

Like venom on spiderman 2
When he gets pn spiderman

[bright parrot]

But isn't CS a life form just like human or hybrid

[azure bay]

It may look so. Do you have other confirmations?

[bright parrot]

First thing
CS was trying to get over dale but dale stayed strong and stopped CS from taking over in theatre (mirror thing) That's where I concluded that CS is trying to take over.

Now coming to evidence.
Bob turned CS was brought back.
Laura was dead before turning to CS.
Jakob was killed by a ritual and his mother helped him become owl (or maybe he too was a CS before owl)

[median solstice]

it's like trying to fight yourself, not someone else's cs corrupting you either you own it or it owns you

[azure bay]

First thing.
We have no idea what happened in Theatre.

Jakob definitely wasn't a CS before becoming owl. Visibly

Also I tend to trust mythology about souls not splitting. Corrupted soul is still you. Symbiot analogy doesn't stand.

[bright parrot]

One more thing unrelated to this.
Dale didn't kill Laura. They are feeding this to his brain that he killed laura.

Or if he really killed laura (according to tpw law or smth) (i haven't played the game) then too the main objective is same. Making dale realize that he killed laura. It may trigger something in him but IDK what

[azure bay]

I don't think so

Paradox was 1st and foremost an elixir metaphor

It was about the choice

[bright parrot]

Theatre is a memory things in it are either real or are used as symbols

[azure bay]

That tells nothing about what happened to Dale in the toilet. Everything else may be heavily altered by Owl.

[bright parrot]

Maybe telling him that he had a choice and still he killed laura.
That will trigger his cs

[azure bay]

Let me finish

The choice is either to accept the consequences of his actions or to sacrifice himself and save Laura

Then one dies, the other finds enlightenment

Paradox may or may not be based on real events

It kinda works in both ways

[bright parrot]

That's dale isn't it

[azure bay]

That's Mr. Deer

[bright parrot]

Dale's hybrid

[azure bay]

No THE Mr. Deer

Nicolas

Before a redesign

[bright parrot]

Oh

Case 23 is also a memory

[azure bay]

No indications of that. And if it is a memory, every single game kinda is. Just cubes floating aroung the lake

[bright parrot]

There was no lift in the cabin

Then that makes every cube an episode

Like Avatar minor plot development in background.

[azure bay]

That's weird, I agree, but remember memories follow the same rules the reality does

Also the elevator could be hidden there all along

[bright parrot]

But
Bday
Theatre
All had lift to travel in memory

And that's where is journey begin

[azure bay]

No, you are wrong, Dale's journey started in The Cave

[bright parrot]

And I also find Season a boit like Case 23.

We don't know about the reality of both.
Both are monologues of main characters.

[bright parrot]

I am talking about the order in release date of games

[azure bay]

These are 2 different elevators

Both pretty much real because we have multiple perspectives on them

One is in the cabin

The other is in the hotel