🤔｜theories

[floral mauve]

everyone do want to believe that

I also wish Frank did survive

[digital heron]

my man went through war and ptsd 😭

[floral mauve]

just trying to be objective here

[digital heron]

also even if Frank survived Albert would problaby just hunt him down since ge was the one who murdered him :/

[floral mauve]

ehm perhaps u want to carry in on in tpw section of theories?

[digital heron]

o yeah, sorry about that

[floral mauve]

its fine

just make ppl suffer less spoilers of new game

[red yew]

Waaaah

Haha we came with the same doubt

Ok, so, the frog guy and the others staying at the hotel have animal hands, even harvey, but mr crow and mr owl have the most human hands, also the depictions of dale as a deer

Is it like a continuity mistake or does it mean something?, cause the ones with more animal hands or get killed or get transformed into animals

[digital heron]

there are lots of continuity mistakes involving Dale

so for now I don't think we can say anything for sure

[viral hill]

Gimmie your best headcannon in rusty lake life:

[tough mason]

i don't think they're continuity mistakes

[red yew]

Whats your theory?

[tough mason]

I don't think i have a theory but

[red yew]

Hm yeah, but every human with an animal form has hands but the guys at the hotel dont have human hands

[red yew]

Its fine, doesnt need to be big

[red yew]

But at the hotel game mr crow and mr owl have all fingers

[tough mason]

at the end of case 23, dale gets onto the elevator
then birthday and theatre happen while he's going up to the hotel

[red yew]

Yeh

Yeh, yeh

So?

Or sorry, that was it?

[tough mason]

idk

[red yew]

Oh

Well yeah i suppose they happen then

But birthday is still in the past, small dale

[tough mason]

I don't know when dale gets into the cube at the bottom of the lake

i also don't know where paradox happens

[red yew]

I would like to think paradox is the most recent one

[red yew]

I dont remember that

[tough mason]

i think the gold cube in the cave and in paradox are the same ones

[tough mason]

what happens in birthday and theatre is that dale relives his memories

[red yew]

Ohhh

[red yew]

Oh, i thought it was literal, but now that you mention it, yeah

[red yew]

The thing is that the protagonist in the cave is mr crow

[tough mason]

but we see dale and laura in there

[red yew]

I bealive last time i played it there was a mirror and the human version of mr crow was there

[red yew]

Maybe we have two different protagonist?, i remember something like that

I played it too many months ago

[tough mason]

no the protagonist is mr crow

[red yew]

Oh, yeah so i remember fine, thanks

[tough mason]

we just see them at the end

[red yew]

I dont remember dale… OH THEY WERE ON ||THOSE ELECTRIC CHAIRS||

[tough mason]

yup

[red yew]

Ayeee i remember all now, thanks for refreshing my memory

Yeah, its fun gow they are always checking what dale is doing

[tough mason]

i agree

[red yew]

Hahaha, yay

[marsh scarab]

hey I wonder what are y'all theories about paradise 🫠

[slow ridge]

Dale has been tested in the electrical chair after he descented into the lake during Case 23 chapter 4. Paradox is the mind set he is trapped in and he will end up into a prisoner's loop if he can't figure a way out. The real ending exists in paradox chapter 2, which he finds the golden cube and the lift behind the room. At the same time, mr crow manages to create the golden cube in the cave, hand it to an unconscious Dale as he heads to the lift

I suppose RL is going to release a new Hotel game somewhat in the future, in order to realise the prophecy that Dale is going to make his way up to there through the lift again. I guess this is an event which happens after The cave and paradox. We're going explore more about hotel later on probably

[azure bay]

Rather after Theatre, since it's the furthest point in Dale's timeline

[slow ridge]

Watch closely and you'll see the lift is going up whenever Dale 'fixed' a memory/timeline. It should be leading him to the hotel.

And paradox happens just before he is able to encounter these memories. Because the whole experiment happens at the deepest part of the lake

[azure bay]

You tell me nothing new

I just don't get why you don't count these memories encounter

Since it's effectively Dale making stops on his trip to enter pretty much physical cubes

[marsh scarab]

pls

[weak python]

I wondered if Elizabeth Eilander links the Eilender family to the Vanderbooms and is possibly Laura's great great… (not sure how many exactly) grandmother. I'm basing that purely on the similarity of their faces, especially the mouth shapes and because of the Roots painting in Samsara room but who knows?

[azure bay]

this similarity is seemingly based on the artstyle

that doesn't mean Vaderbooms and Eilanders aren't related, it's just not evidence

[weak python]

Yeah, totally. That's why I said 'wondered' and 'but who knows?' Just sharing it in case anyone else has any other observations that could either substantiate or dispel the notion.

[azure bay]

There's a really cool theory stating them being related

[weak python]

Do you have a link to it or a gist of what it says?

[azure bay]

a moment pls

[weak python]

Of course, thanks.

[azure bay]

so

it starts with Elisabeth being Pheasant

and Pheasant being The Lady of The Lake songstress

(or at least the songstress pretends to be her, still works)

The Lady asks to balance her past life substance

Pheasant's hat and 3 other items

a shell, a fetus and a heart

[weak python]

The fetus, the heart, the hat and the shell

[azure bay]

dunno what shell means but it's irrelevant

the fetus followed by the heart are

we saw them together before in this specific order

[weak python]

case 23

[azure bay]

in the chapel of Case 23 we find a key inside Pheasant's skull

that gives access to the fetus jar

[azure bay]

so they are still (connected)

[weak python]

I love all those connections. Very cool

[azure bay]

dropping ink into the jar completely covers fetus and when dissolved leaves the heart

now here're some interpretations

fetus could symbolize a child

ink looked like corruption

heart could also mean smth but within the theory it's just a heart

so we have a child from Pheasant's past life connected both to corruption and a heart

[weak python]

William and Laura?

[azure bay]

notably William

Laura on her own can't belong to that past life

He was corrupted and left his own heart as a sacrifice for his resurrection

now the dates

and the weakest point of the theory

no Idea when William was born but Aldous was 2 years after Paradise

if and only if Eilanders were not enlightened right away (which is believable if the guests' ages posted in 2015 are still canon), Elisabeth would live on and give birth to the alchemist brothers.

[marsh scarab]

Is it confirmed that the guests are the eilanders?

[azure bay]

yes, Mr. Rabbit is Eilander and the rest have to be by association

the only chance for enlightenment we know they had together was in Paradise

[weak python]

That's a cool theory. So would that not support the idea that Elizabeth is Laura's great great… grandmother?

[azure bay]

that would. She's James' grandmother who's Laura's great grandfather

[weak python]

Another interesting thing that I noticed is the gun Mrs Pheasant uses in Hotel is a flintlock pistol which is a lot more in keeping of the time period of Paradise

[azure bay]

don't think it's relevant since we didn't see it in Paradise

[weak python]

We do see it again in Birthday and so it has some sort of importance.

[azure bay]

it has, it's Mr. Rabbit's goal

the reason he came

[weak python]

And if Rabbit is David's other life then does he want it because it's connected to his time in Paradise (This is all conjecture but it could lead to other links)?

[azure bay]

for now I think it's important because they used to work with Pheasant at the same theatre

[weak python]

Okay, cool

[weak python]

Thanks for sharing all these theories with me. It's much appreciated.

[azure bay]

np

[weak python]

off topic and probably shared before

A fun thing I noticed between Paradise and Hotel are these parallels between the Eilanders and their animal counterparts in Hotel. A few might just be coincidences but…

Nicholas drinks a glass of blood like Mr Deer's bloody mary. Margaret sits in the soup to stir it sort of like Pigeon in her hot bath. David stabs three different creatures with his big proboscis is funny because Mr Rabbit gets stabbed with three swords. Elizabeth is blind and Mrs Pheasant is all about being seen. Gerard with his burger and his use of the toilet and Mr Boar with his sandwich and also using the toilet.

[azure bay]

agree on everything except for stabbing

3 is a usual number for repetitive tasks

not too big, not too small

I'd also add 2 achievements

Watch closely and Boar

they take place during the chapter build around respective characters

resurrecting Gerard and hiding from David

by the way, why nobody makes a big of Gerard's resurrection?

[weak python]

Haha. I'm sure it's just like any other sunday on Paradise Island

"David's just stabbed dad through the head with his giant insect nose, again. Someone get a bandage!"

[azure bay]

regular human sacrifices do wonders

very good to your health

[weak python]

Haha!

[azure bay]

and digestion system

[weak python]

Like I say, 'it might be coincidence.' Whether the use of three was intentional or purely for gameplay reasons the parallel stills exists.

[azure bay]

I conclude it is likely a coincidence due to other examples

[weak python]

Yeah, probably. Fun one, though

[azure bay]

how long do you know Rusty Lake?

[weak python]

Since The Lake and Seasons

[azure bay]

2015?

really?

[weak python]

Yeah. Been a big fan for a long time

How about you?

[azure bay]

2018 right in the middle between Paradise and Paradox

what can you tell me about The Lake and Seasosn?

[weak python]

Probably not very much. One thing that I was wondering about recently was the presence of Harvey in The Mill

Trying to wrap my head around the events of Seasons. Laura kills Harvey but then uses the blue cube to undo that murder

But she's also dead in the Mill.

I'm not explaining that very well at all. But do you get where I'm coming from?

[azure bay]

very well

her own timeline is also tricky

in fall 1971 she's dead

the newsflash, the knife, screaming Harvey

so she's corrupted

but in her corruption in The Mill took place in 1972

[weak python]

yeah, sorry. That actually makes total sense

[azure bay]

what does?

[weak python]

so the murder of Harvey in Seasons actually happens after she's dead. Yeah?

[azure bay]

yes

but in 1971

before her corruption

she's corrupted before corruption

[weak python]

I find keeping track of the dates of things really tricky.

And how everything lines up together.

Especially when you have blue cube travelling and ghostly interventions and reincarnation.

How did you go about forming your theories?

[azure bay]

didn't get your question

[weak python]

Sorry, it was pretty vague

Did it take you a lot play throughs, did you draw any diagrams, was it through conversations on here?

Because you seem to have a really good grasp on the series and the story

[azure bay]

a game takes several playthroughs to form an opinion

often with achievements since they tend to be lore heavy

and then theories are polished in discussions

I find diagrams useful when something is very tricky

[vital bobcat]

does anyone have any idea about when tpw is based

[azure bay]

or when I need to combine a bunch of different theories with sets of possibilities

[weak python]

Yeah, I need to spend more time creating diagrams

[azure bay]

the past is 1926, the future is 1984

[covert wyvern]

check the threads, we have a TPW thread.

1984

[azure bay]

thx, Seasons muscle memory

[covert wyvern]

I get that lol

[weak python]

It's not theory based but I remember when I found the second box in The Lake and used the code from Seasons, I was like, "these people aren't playing around!" Every other escape game I'd played until that point had been run-of-the-mill by comparison

[weak python]

When you started playing was Paradox the first game you played or did you go back to the Seasons/The Lake?

[azure bay]

a friend brought me The Cave. I was bought by the sequence of elixir extraction from the dog

starting with an arm cutting itself off and finishing with an old man in the mirror turning corvid

[weak python]

Haha! Those are such amazing moments!

[azure bay]

then I wanted to find some room escape games

then discovered the entire series

started playing randomly

with no specific order

maybe only occasionally adopting it

understanding was coming gradually

[weak python]

Hopefully I'll wrap my head around it all one day. Although, I seriously doubt that.

Also, I'm a big fan of having no idea what's going on

[azure bay]

I'm a fan of having no idea what EXACTLY is going on

unless we have overly compelling evidence

that is playing with different ideas and how they work together

[marsh scarab]

Y'all win I'm replaying the cave

[azure bay]

I have a joke theory

the major purpose of TPW is promoting this discord server

[covert wyvern]

Ill take it

[ebon aspen]

Next rusty lake installment will be only available on sketch heads

[floral mauve]

thats one way of reading it

[ebon aspen]

Gl non discorders

[floral mauve]

also

[slow ridge]

||I was expecting TPW would be about how Rose and Albert spent their time together during Roots. Albert returning from the dead (becoming a corrupted soul on the way) is totally unexpected!||

[floral mauve]

I put this bet 99.9%, next RL game is back to single player

[floral mauve]

I mean a few months before the game releases, it has been said that the mission is about resurrecting Albert

[slow ridge]

Not really

[floral mauve]

they used the specific words about it

[azure bay]

I'm currently working on a history vid. Albert told about resurrection in his New Year 2021 greetings

[slow ridge]

Why did I saw some videos saying that it was meant to explain the time they spent together. They sound misleading now

[floral mauve]

this is before the gamescom

[azure bay]

deepening Albert's past was the original idea

[slow ridge]

Oh that's why. I didn't have Twitter that's why I didn't know that

[floral mauve]

also on instagram

I got this from their instagram

[slow ridge]

I have no ig

[floral mauve]

rip

[azure bay]

ded

[slow ridge]

I really love the story of the game. It is not the most difficult game nor the scariest. But it intrigues me so much.

Maybe it doesn't seem too scary because I already got used to the style of Rusty lake verse

[azure bay]

a CS jumpscare worked on me

[floral mauve]

I didnt get much jumpscare but some of the scenes are quite unexpected

[ebon aspen]

I cringed a lot bc of tpw, in a good way ofc

[azure bay]

aesthetics of the corpse is nasty, a CS is wild

[floral mauve]

I swear this is their best atmosphere or sound game

[ebon aspen]

And cringing is sometimes way better than getting jumpscared in horror media

[floral mauve]

probably they have a special department for it this time

[ebon aspen]

So thats a win and i hope the final game is all about rolling up into a ball bc of so much cringing

[ebon aspen]

The devs did have help of a specialized audio studio

[floral mauve]

next step triple A Rusty Lake game

ready for IPO

[ebon aspen]

Im sure the devs arent working on an open world rl game

I hope

Not that i would complain about a sidequest to collect 100 harvey feathers

[weak python]

The sound of || the flesh crawling into the tube || was so good!

[ebon aspen]

I rewatched the devlog vid about the sfx dudes and it was amazing to see for what that weird stuff was for

[mellow juniper]

are these same?

[faint bear]

i thought so...

😭

[covert wyvern]

Mind your spoilers

[faint bear]

isnt it theory?

how can it be spoiler?

so it's real

[covert wyvern]

We have a specific thread for discussions

Regarding the past within

https://discord.com/channels/319613669438914560/945320126608179231 by all means pop off here

[mellow juniper]

@ebon aspen you look like this tree's fan

[ebon aspen]

Its for a good reason

[tough mason]

Does anyone know why the mushrooms in seasons do that?

[covert wyvern]

They're psychedelics?

[tough mason]

The jumpscares in rusty lake games are scary

[marsh scarab]

depends which imo

[covert wyvern]

They could also just be a like haha funny drugs joke I don't know

[floral mauve]

I hope mushrooms and red forrest return

perhaps in 20000 bc one

[covert wyvern]

The red forest is surely the lake though right?

Or do you see that as its own seperate thing?

[floral mauve]

we havent seen it for a while, only regular dark ones

red forrest

[covert wyvern]

Ye I think they may have rebranded

[floral mauve]

to be specific

[floral mauve]

sad

[covert wyvern]

But it could be an interesting distinction

[floral mauve]

I had another thought a while ago

Red forrest is regular forrest but in the night

thats why the lake is red in the night

in hotel

[covert wyvern]

O mhm

Interesting

[tough mason]

How would Laura become enlightened when she's dead?🤔

[marsh scarab]

if the forest is located in the depths of the lake, it could become red during the first plague in paradise: water turned into blood, which is a signal to the paradise fam that the day of the lake will come soon... And that the lake needs a sacrifice.
And then in hotel, we can associate this colour again with hungriness of the lake because the guests are killed and are used as sacrifice to the lake ig

maybe that's just like the lake must be fed or smth, you have to feed the lake to use it idk

[tough mason]

I think the only way the loop ends is if Dale drinks the green vial and dies or he finds the golden cube and ascends(?)

[azure bay]

Yeah

Does it contradict anything I said back then?

[floral mauve]

I don’t agree with the plague part because the lake day is technically the day they sacrificed Caroline

[tough mason]

Dale becomes a deer???

[floral mauve]

Plague is the consequences of Caroline’s sacrifice ritual (may due to wrong person but remains unknown)

[marsh scarab]

and the day they sacrificed the protag as well right

[floral mauve]

We don’t know, it doesn’t seems to be because they don’t know how long will Jakob solve each plague

[marsh scarab]

it would be better if he had his own unique azura form imo, otherwise it's gonna be so confusing

[floral mauve]

We do know deer is the studio’s favorite

I think it was mentioned in one of the previous q&a

[marsh scarab]

the dad litt said "be ready to meet your destiny, the day of the lake will come again" 💀

[floral mauve]

During the tenth plague?

[marsh scarab]

I think it was earlier

[marsh scarab]

I want him to be a fish

I want an azura fish

[tough mason]

I don't think that is right

[floral mauve]

Perhaps u meant when he said to the young Jakob?

[marsh scarab]

I played through the game yesterday so let's agree to disagree

[marsh scarab]

nah he said that to the player asw

[floral mauve]

Ehm

I can’t recall much

[marsh scarab]

he didn't say the two things simultaneously but through the later plagues, he said both things to adult jakob, I'm pretty sure. Him or another eilander but I think it was him

[floral mauve]

I am pretty bad with paradise

So I don’t quite remember the lines

[wise temple]

It’s either he or the grandmother that tells Jakob “the day of the lake is almost upon us” or something to that effect

[marsh scarab]

Yup either of them

[floral mauve]

It also has two meanings

Because the day could be a specific date or it’s just general referring to the glorify ritual day of getting enlightenment

[marsh scarab]

i never said the day was a specific date

it just means that the lake will need a sacrifice soon imo

the day of the lake = the day of the sacrifice

[worthy fern]

Can someone like... Give me a brief breakdown of the Lore? I just finished all the cube games because I hyperfixate like that and would love to know what's going on

[marsh scarab]

gl mr. parrot 🥲

[ebon aspen]

guy turns into an owl headed furry after being burnt alive by his family (which members later also turned into furries)
this guy starts to research on memory cubes that are used to feed the now famous rusty lake after finding stuff from his mom and also merging with her
2 brothers discover the owl/owl's mom stuff and also start researching, not much about the cubes but on how to be immortal
their eternal life elixir was flawed. one of them died and later reincarnated as his grandgrandgrandgranddaughter while the other also became a bird themed furry (a crow this time!)
the 2 bros' family did lots of weird stuff that were actually pretty normal considering how the previous inhabitants of the lake used to live
the one person worth of mention is albert. hes a creep. like, really creep. the new game is about him so i wont elaborate further bc of spoilers. but that doesnt erase the fact hes a creep
cut to dale, aka our beloved, whos investigating the murder of that grandgrandgrandgranddaughter aforementioned. what was a usual day of work ended up with him involved with the owl's schemes to tame the lake (i think i didnt mention, but he was burnt alive as a sacrifice after the lake spawned the 10 plagues so he doesnt want that to happen ever again) with lots of jumpscares by fish, reliving past trauma and trying to ascend into an enlightened being
oh, and theres this parrot harvey whos sus

prolly forgot smth important and can breakdown every game individually if you want, but thats the resumed resume of the resume that skips in depth details

[marsh scarab]

[wise temple]

And also there’s bob

He’s having an interesting time

[marsh scarab]

bob = elite brainwashed jailbreaker

[ebon aspen]

i skipped bob bc his stuff is just too sad for me to take now

hold on champ

[marsh scarab]

i feel u

I don't remember shit about TWD

[wise temple]

He’s doing his best

[marsh scarab]

except ||sparrow, funky nightclub, and mr owl being a creepy old guy experimenting on the ex of a dead old man||

oh

and bob organised stuff on a table before getting dumped

I want dale to be a fish furry

not a charismatic one tho

a grey basic fish with lil whiskers

[ebon aspen]

i started to write a summary on twd but was going too deep into what mr owl been doing all this time and decided to stop, its just so messed up

[marsh scarab]

Can you explain what he's doing really briefly ?

I have no idea

He just wants the full elixir right ?

I hope he's not planning on destroying a portal to a spiritual realm tho because i got the feels this will involve some sort of mass murder 👍

• I want my sibling to turn into a giant mosquito and lobotomise shady ppl who want to use me as a sacrifice

[ebon aspen]

owl? i honestly think he gave up on the elixir since hes "training" dale
like, he accepted he wont be able to find the true recipe (that is, if there indeed is a true recipe) and resigned to being a fish

[marsh scarab]

when did he become a fish tho

omg my brain is laggy 👩‍🦽

[ebon aspen]

in paradox he states hes soon to turn into a fish, prolly meaning he will go to samsara room and reborn or smth

[marsh scarab]

oh

ooh

ok

owl baby is gonna be terrifying innit

[ebon aspen]

sheesh its always good to remember how much i need to replay paradox bc that game is so freaking heavy on lore

[marsh scarab]

what was he doing in twd

[ebon aspen]

running yet another mental facility

[marsh scarab]

I remember he had a whole team extracting memories from bob hence the weird dreams ? right ?

and that's what corrupted his soul ?

[marsh scarab]

oh, it's true that the whole idea of making profit of mentally ill ppl is yucky

[ebon aspen]

welp, its more of researching on memories than really making profit
and in the end he did help bob, so ig its a win

[marsh scarab]

?

isn't bob fully corrupted in theatre ? how did owl help ?

[ebon aspen]

owl cured his sadness and brought back color to his life
he needed to erase memories and mess up with bob's mind? sure but everything comes with a price

[marsh scarab]

he corrupted his soul tho

hum

bob could just get some help and go to therapy 🥲
If he had been approached by a real doctor

[worthy fern]

This only slightly helps

Wtf is birthday then

[ebon aspen]

dale revisiting his memory

[marsh scarab]

still better than being turned into a haunting black thing after some shitty bird stole your core memories

get help folks no shame in that, long journey, but your health worth the effort ||🫠 ||

[ebon aspen]

it goes basically like this:
Cube Escape: Seasons -- the woman (aka laura, aka the grandgrandgrandgranddaughter) messes with her memories and i still cant say for sure whats real and whats not at the end of that quality time
Cube Escape: The Lake -- laura, instead of going to a real mental health facility, goes to a cabin in the middle of rusty lake to spend some time fishing and ends up attacked by a corrupted soul
Cube Escape: Arles -- homage to van gogh, has some info on memory cubes and corruption
Cube Escape: Harvey's Box -- this is what happened inside the box seen in "ce: the lake", harvey is the sussy parrot that seems to be around even before mr owl started doing his shenanigans
Cube Escape: Case 23 -- here the shit starts for dale. first he investigates laura's death, witness bob's corruption and gets summoned by mr owl via light beam, ends inside a chapel by the lake and then has to deal witha soul in the cabin
Cube Escape: The Mill -- happens at the same time as case 23, but by mr crow's pov. while mr owl is toying with dale, crow is messing up with laura's memories, corrupting her and disappointing owl
Rusty Lake Hotel -- turn back in time a little, here mr owl is killing his hotel guests (later revealed to be his family) so he can research on cubes and souls while getting revenge

Cube Escape: Birthday -- dale visits a memory
Cube Escape: Theatre -- dale visits another memory (and we learn lots about samsara, enlightenment and all the stuff owl is pursuing)
Rusty Lake Roots -- after crow's bro william died, his soul guided his relatives so he could reborn as laura some time later
Cube Escape: The Cave -- owl and crow are almost at their deadline bc of the flawed elixir, but everything is fine bc crow reaches a room where dale is and manages to craft a golden cube (aka key to all your problems)
Rusty Lake Paradise -- flashback into mr owl's family issues
Cube Escape: Paradox -- dale gets lore dumped, courtesy of mr owl and crow, who are messing with his life so he can end what the began
Paradox - A Rusty Lake Film -- yet another round of the stuff from the line above, now in live action (shit, i dont have the energy to explain paradox at all, sorry)
The White Door -- bob,laura's ex, goes to a mental health facility so he can stop being sad. turns out that facility was owned by mr owl and was used to research on memories, cubes, souls and everything you already seen
Samsara Room -- what happened before william's soul came back to life as laura
The Past Within -- new game! ||laura's mom helps to bring laura's grandpa (the aforementioned albert creep) back to life||

maybe someone has a really good essay on the lore but im not writing one rn, sorry

[worthy fern]

Thank you! I get the worrying feeling I am going to become obsessed

[ebon aspen]

welcome aboard! we are all obsessed!

[floral mauve]

I think Owl brought colour back to his life to extract his memories again or do experiments with them, that’s why by the end Sarah erased the useful part Laura in his head

[azure bay]

it looked like the opposite

installing the cubes back

[floral mauve]

They are making Bob to regenerate his cubes back

So they could do something with them

Again

[azure bay]

how do you imagine cube regeneration?

@floral mauve

[floral mauve]

Basically extracting cubes make u lose memories like dementia or so, the owner of the original memories is still capable of recalling them

[red yew]

Yeah i played chapter two, i forgot about that detail

[red yew]

I dont think so since they have different vibes, it might just be the tame style, all women have this upper lip, they dint even share a nose, but its fun how all women suffer greatly on these games

[iron fox]

i think that the lake makes people lose their memories and their memories being captured in ltitle cubes floating around

[vale hull]

Hello! Where can I find information about hidden secrets in The Past Within? I saw two scrolls in Steam and want to know about more (if somebody found them).

[covert wyvern]

@vale hull check out #📼｜tpw-bkm-arg

[vale hull]

Thank you!

[azure bay]

I disagree. When they are gone, they are gone

"you memories belong to the lake now, leave them behind"

[floral mauve]

Then how are you expecting Bob getting his memories back

[azure bay]

putting cubes back

or make dreams based on them

[floral mauve]

That’s what I meant

Regenerate is basically dreams and cure ur memories

Sarah did a permanent brain damage I think to erase Laura

[azure bay]

she just altered the memories

that's it

[floral mauve]

Maybe

Alter memory and brain damage are quite alike

[azure bay]

except brain damage is like a hammer and erasing is more fine

[floral mauve]

Yea I know bruh

[azure bay]

but still

I see no profit in getting the same memories

[floral mauve]

I have an explanation on that

Owl basically fucked up the memories and want Bob to retain the original memories so they could do more experiments on that

Or let’s say fix the broken memories

[azure bay]

ok, I would never phrase it in that way but ok

I'd say, they are either implanting extracted memories or are getting access to those blocked by amnesia

maybe to experiment on Bob or merely make their backup for themselves

[floral mauve]

Or they are doing the exact experiment on whether they can restore memories

[azure bay]

they don't need Bob for that

it has to be something Laura related about him

[red geyser]

So, William was reborn as Laura, but thay couldn't get William's memories back?

What about Albert's rebirth? He looked like fully grown

[floral mauve]

Yea maybe

Or Laura is simply a benchmark

To see whether he fully restore the memory

[azure bay]

resurrection*

[floral mauve]

But that sounds quite bad

As an argument

Can’t convince anyone with that

[azure bay]

that doesn't have to be Bob and Laura then

[red geyser]

Ah right, cause he wan't in a womb

[floral mauve]

I mean it’s easy to use or exploit Bob

He has no social connections which is a perfect target

[azure bay]

just like any other person they already have in their basement

[floral mauve]

Why not do it across all of them the same experiment

It’s all repeating the methodology

[azure bay]

why to put an effort into getting another one?

[floral mauve]

That’s how you do experiments

[floral mauve]

Different sample to repeat the method

[red geyser]

So, every time they have tried to recover memories, the person's soul got corrupted right?

[azure bay]

it doesn't have to be Bob

could be any other random person

[floral mauve]

As I said why not

Bob is the random person

Easy to get

[azure bay]

he's not random

Owl personally stalks him

[red geyser]

What if he is another soul? Or maybe a split soul? Bob I mean

We saw that he got corrupted In "Case 23"

[azure bay]

everyone can be corrupted

[wise temple]

This is an aside, but I always thought the samsara room could literally (and metaphorically) be within the moon

Considering every time someone looks at the moon there’s usually a corrupted soul or some other vision looking back at them with a message, in a room with wallpaper resembling their own

Aside from the time Jakob looked at it and it bled but that’s also cuz fuckery was happening cuz the eilanders messed up

[azure bay]

and how is it samsara room then?

[wise temple]

It’s not necessarily Samsara Room, The Game, but like. a samsara room. The corrupted souls that are played as are down on earth doing stuff but Also simultaneously up in there waiting for their revival and/or rebirth and/or reincarnation

[floral mauve]

Interesting

[wise temple]

Not all people have the same samsara room, I’d imagine

[floral mauve]

Agree

[wise temple]

Also, both William and Laura are associated with chickadees! That’s just a neat observation I had

[azure bay]

I still don't get why is it samsara room and not something else. How do you know a samsara room when looking at it?

[wise temple]

Like, if Mr Crow had a samsara room it wouldn’t be the same place as William’s

I don’t, that’s why it’s a theory

[azure bay]

theory (at least good one) implies evidence

[wise temple]

Also the moon window is an extremely frequent reoccurring element that usually includes visible wallpaper and of course a corrupted soul/some other figure sending a message. There’s a room up there.

And you don’t need to be rude about it?

[azure bay]

sorry if you've got a wrong idea

the problem is, we as human beings are always looking for patterns

and we always find them whether they are there or not

and evidence is a good way to distinguish real patterns from imaginary

not 100%. but good patterns are still worth it even if imaginary

[wise temple]

I’m. Aware of that fact.

I don’t know why you’re being rude about me sharing a small theory that’s not fully researched and developed because it’s formed out of observations I made on games I loved not on. Scientific studies.

[azure bay]

I'm not rude, I'm telling that this pattern isn't obvious enough

I'm disagreeing with you, I'm debating with you, testing your statement's strength

[wise temple]

I didn’t ask for debate on it though, I just mentioned it as something neat I noticed and something I chose to believe.

You don’t need to test it’s strength. This isn’t a thesis.

[azure bay]

this channel is for both sharing and debating. If you don't want to, just don't debate

[carmine elk]

I like this idea

[wise temple]

You’re the one who’s pushing the debating aspect-

[wise temple]

Thank ya! I think it’s kinda neat, even if it’s not true/whatevs. Either way the moon is an important piece of imagery throughout the games :]

That Moon: Is Weird

[azure bay]

because I'm a theorist. That's what I do. I invent theories, I collect theories of my colleagues, I evaluate them

[azure bay]

absolutely agree

[wise temple]

In any case.

I always figured that Mr Crow met Mr Owl while crow was still Aldous, since he mentions him post-Enlightenment like “peace out William I gotta help him” (obviously. Paraphrasing.) but what I do wonder is what on earth that first meeting was like SJDDJDJ

Cuz the House was William’s so Aldous likely didn’t live there- assuming he lived in the mill at that time cuz he runs and resides in it still in the approximated 70s-80s (I’m bad at time) I’m just imagining like.

[Younger Aldous writing in a journal]
“The owl headed man came to visit again today. He’s peculiar.”

[azure bay]

there are 2 possibilities I know

considering their elixir being based on the one of Caroline, the could be invited to RL by Owl to recreate the formula

there's also a theory about them being Owl's nephews

a pretty good one, I'd say

[azure bay]

and I don't think Aldous lived at the mill. The house was big enough for 2 of them. He must've moved there after being declared dead

[wise temple]

Ehhh I don’t really buy the second one. Kinda vibe with them being two separate but equally bizarre families and stuff. But I figured them being alchemists Definitely started aldous’s working relationship with mr owl even before Aldous was enlightened, and owl almost definitely helped supply some books and stuff

That’s fair! Aldous wasn’t declared dead if I recall right (since he’s the one who writes his son about William’s death) but either way mill time/hotel time does make sense

Keeps him just out of the way enough to be able to lend William’s soul a hand on occasion

[azure bay]

I told the same before hearing out the evidence

[azure bay]

1. Aldous has to be declared dead otherwise James isn't the only heir as we were told

2. James' father's identity is unknown, Aldous is only 1 option

but there could be someone else

[wise temple]

I can’t promise I’ll buy it even after hearing the evidence, on account of. I don’t care for “these characters who are completely unrelated and are from different families altogether. Are Actually Related” theories.

But I get why ya would, some are interestin! Just not my jam

[azure bay]

believe I'm not fond of them as well

We have a theatre songstress sharing vibes with Ms. Pheasant. In her play she asks us to balance the substance of her past life (a fetus, a heart and Pheasant's hat) also partially seen in Case 23.

You find them in the chapel and get access to the fetus in a jar via a key hidden in Pheasant's skull. When you drop ink into the jar, it hides the fetus and when dissolved leaves the heart instead.

The fetus could symbolise a child, ink looks like corruption and the heart could be just a heart. There's the only character related both to corruption and a heart, William Vanderboom. He died, went corrupted and used organ sacrifices in order to resurrect himself. The heart needed for the ritual was taken from his own former body.

So William is that fetus child from Pheasant's past life that went corrupted and left a heart behind. And one of Pheasant's past lives is Elisabeth Eilander.

That also works with dates. William's brother Aldous was born in 1799, few years after Paradise while Elisabeth was arguably fertile at the time.

[wise temple]

I kinda usually consider that singer in Theatre to represent Laura and Caroline simultaneously rather than pheasant and William, but I see how that vibes

[azure bay]

She shares a dress, a job, a hat and a music theme. Also you get her past life substance by using Pheasant's skull

she has to at least pretend to be Pheasant

The only requirement for the theory to work are Eilanders not being enlightened right away which is believable if the guests' ages posted in 2015 are still canon

[red geyser]

What does "enlightened" mean in the context of the games? I'm not sure if I got the right idea

Like, using the elixir?

[azure bay]

seemingly it's about being reborn in a higher form

elixir is one way of getting that

[red geyser]

So, like people with animal heads??

[wise temple]

Oh I use it in a “having used the elixir/sacrificed to. Gain that animal form folks have”

Sense

[azure bay]

yeah

[carmine elk]

I always auto see the blue theater lady as Elizabeth, it’s always so interesting to see peoples interpretations of the blue lady

[red geyser]

Oh I see

[wise temple]

Also: Harvey has been enlightened for longer than anyone else we know in game and I think that’s neat

[azure bay]

not sure about it, we saw him in Paradise as a bird

[wise temple]

I usually interpret her as representing Caroline and Laura (tho dressed as pheasant) on account of the fact that Laura and Caroline are both. Ladies of the lake

[wise temple]

Yes, exactly

[red geyser]

Do we know who he was as a human? I played the games a while ago

[wise temple]

We do not! We just know that he’s Harvey

Harvey has been around since at least the eilanders’ time, perhaps before

[azure bay]

and where does the longest enlightenment come from?

[red geyser]

Hmm he must be hiding something

Caroline was the first?

The first to use the elixir?

[wise temple]

Because he’s been around and existent and alive for the absolute longest (and he’s at least likely enlightened because he’s shown to be capable of taking a humanoid form and very capable of complex thought most parrots can’t)

Caroline did not have the elixir

[red geyser]

I must be confused then, who was the first?

[azure bay]

he lost his humanoid form in 1894. When he died and Owl T-posed to resurrect him. Ever since samsara wheels state he's an animal

[wise temple]

To have the elixir specifically? I believe William and Aldous, if I recall correctly

Was it ever like, established that he Died then?

[azure bay]

Caroline and Jacob created elixir from her memories

[red geyser]

Well, we kill him in one of the games Ithink

[red geyser]

Oh ok, then it was them who first used it?

[azure bay]

on screen, I'd say

I expect someone being before them

@wise temple by the way, where does "Laura is the Lady" come from?

[wise temple]

I don’t remember where I first heard it, however her being A lady of the lake makes sense on account of the whole. “Literally being born after a lake-caused ritual and her mother emerging from the lake with her in her arms and her being drawn back to the lake multiple times and still thinking about the hotel and such when she’s no longer there and returning to the lake willingly later and”

She’s very connected to the lake

[red geyser]

So I was going through my notes and I found that "The Book/Diary" found in "The Cave" is the same James was reading in "Roots". I assume he inherited it from his Uncle. But how did his uncle get it?

[azure bay]

We saw a book in Paradise containing Caroline's formula

in the Paradox movie the same book contains the alchemist bros' initials

over Caroline's formula

and RL MH&F treatment program from The Cave

[azure bay]

she lived away from it for more than 30 years

[ebon aspen]

Wasnt laura alive and breaking bob's heart at the same time the lady of the lake was around?

[red geyser]

Right, and do we know where the original formula came from? I'm thinking everything is a cycle and Caroline got the formula from Aldous and William's previous lives(this is just my theory) and then they were reborn and the cycle continues. What I can't understand is why must everything "return to the lake"

[azure bay]

apparently she was. And was for 2 years

[azure bay]

too specific for a normal chaotic world

[red geyser]

What do you mean?

[red geyser]

Maybe, but that is the meaning of "Samsara" right?

A cycle of death and rebirth

[wise temple]

The lady of the lake in theatre specifically is part of dale’s weird ass memories of what happened/his journey towards enlightenment/whatnot, and that’s the specific version I’d been using to represent Caroline and Laura and such

[azure bay]

William took his death under control to be reborn as his own great niece. That's rather an exception than a rule

[ebon aspen]

If it was a memory, then he saw her performing
Also, as i mentioned laura was alive and kicking when the lady of the lake was already doing shows (as seen in twd), so unless they merged after laura's death, id say its impossible for them to be the same

[azure bay]

It could be a play about Caroline, an homage by Owl. But still you can't deny exceptionally strong Pheasant vibes

[ebon aspen]

And yeah, im 99% sure shes pheasant

@azure bay was thinking now, what were the items we needed to balance in her theatre segment? For some reason im picturing emma's hat among the things

But either way wanted to know about them to thin the line between her and pheasant (and between pheasant and beth)

[azure bay]

it was Pheasant's

from Hotel

the lady in blue

[ebon aspen]

Sheesh i need to replay it, could only recall the masks

[red geyser]

I think I need to replay everything hahaha

[azure bay]

That's a good thing to do occasionally

[red geyser]

I think I will start chronologically this time, to see if I find it easier to follow

[azure bay]

I can suggest a mixed approach

[red geyser]

Also, where in the timeline does "The Past Within" happen? Around 1926?

[red geyser]

Alright, for example?

[azure bay]

a comprehensive compromise between reveals and chronology

[red geyser]

Is there a guide or something?

[azure bay]

I can write you a list somewhere

[red geyser]

Great!, you can send me a DM if you want

[narrow ridge]

Do you have any theories for the past within?

[covert wyvern]

we have an entire thread dedicated to ti!

it*

[weak python]

So here's a half-baked theory made from a few different ideas I've picked up from the Theories thread. Not sold on it but I like elements of it. Let me know what you think?

Here’s Basic idea:

In Seasons there are four memory cubes and one blue time travel cube. In CE: The Mill there are two of Laura’s memory cubes and in CE: The Cave there are two more of Laura’s memory cubes plus one Blue cube. So the number of cubes in Seasons adds up to the number of cubes in The Mill and The Cave.

The memories that Laura goes through in Seasons are being triggered by Mr Crow as he firstly receives two from Dale and then discovers the others using the submarine.

Okay, I know this theory has a lot of flaws which I’ll cover later.

At the Mill Mr Crow gets the two cubes from Dale and starts to process them through the machine in the Mill. The second memory corrupts Laura which could possibly coincide with her corruption in Seasons in the second memory cube 1971 (at least that’s when you see the corrupted soul)

This would be where Mr Crow collects Dale in chapter 3 of Case 23

Crow story continues from there to The Cave from there. In Cave Mr Owl says, “Dale’s journey is about to start. You need to gather the memories, we need them for our future the full elixir” (although he doesn’t specify that it’s just Dale’s memories) The next three cubes he collects are two more of Laura’s memories and then the blue cube with an image of the Grandfather Clock connecting it to a) time and b) the mechanism that unlocks the things in the past that can change it. And Crow finding these memories would trigger them for Laura in Seasons.

Is it possible then that when Mr Crow is solving the puzzle card game in The Mill and lining up the images in the Submarine viewer that’s when he’s exacting his influence on the memories? So when Mr Crow speaks with Laura through the phone in seasons he’s speaking to her from the Mill. His influence is giving her the chance to change her memories and undo her corruption as we see it in Seasons.

If the memory viewers had this power then that could explain why Mr Crow appears as both Grandpa in Birthday and the Bartender in Theatre.


This memory interaction technology (for want of a better word) is what’s also being used in the machine that Laura and Dale are connected to at the end of the Cave and in Paradox.


Where this theory has it’s flaws (although I'm sure there are others):


The images that we see when processing the memories in The Mill are a mix of moments from Seasons AND The Lake which sort of breaks the four cubes for Seasons. 
The first memory we see in the submarine section of the Cave is Laura in front of the Hotel with Harvey on her shoulder which doesn’t feature in Seasons but could be better connected to CE: The Lake or even Paradox.
Laura’s body is in a corrupted state when we see her at the end of The Cave

[azure bay]

@weak python there's no need in cube counting. All the cubes were extracted in The Mill and flushed down the lake, in The Cave the very same cubes were recovered. And they contain all her memories condensed, including those that belonged to William and probably to a ton of other past lives of hers

then I'm sure it wasn't Crow speaking on the phone in Seasons. 3 Reasons

actually 1

and 2 about why it's a different person

[azure bay]

Crow doesn't speak like that since The Mill. I reckon, because his mouth isn't sealed anymore.

While we're getting more and more corrupted souls adopting this manner of speech

so I think it's a CS, notably Laura

[azure bay]

1. The phone is silent in Winter when it's prepared to send a light beam into the past. So why not sound?

2. there's a rare line spoken "find me in the past". Laura effectively finds herself.

[weak python]

All great points, thanks.

Any thoughts on why the green Gem that saves Laura in alternative ending of the Lake makes an appearance in the card flipping puzzle in The Mill and then again in the box that Mr Owl gives to Mr Crow in The Cave?

[wise temple]

I like to joke that mr crow can turn on the Phone Voice at Will but that’s not an actual theory-

Consider: memories transcend time. Those are the soul’s memories, regardless of whether the body had experienced them yet

And, I figured Laura being saved was the true ending of that scenario, tho I dunno for sure cuz shit’s complicated DJDDJJD

What I really wonder is why mr crow’s mouth was sewn shut in the first place?? Cuz he wasn’t exactly happy with it and Immediately goes back to crow stance (for lack of my brain producing a better term) once Dale cuts the strings

[azure bay]

I think the green ending is just canon somehow. Either memory bending or the lake giving a second chance like it did with Dale at the save cabin

[azure bay]

future memories are rare. So I think they aren't that easy to obtain

[wise temple]

Oh yeah that’s a fair point, I forgot for a sec that future memories are actually a tangible thing here SNSJSJ

I mean I never actually got the ending that isn’t the green ending when I played lake- I fished twice and remembered the thing

[weak python]

(Apologies that wasn't meant as a reply)

Continuing with my nonsense. Do we think that Dale is still sitting in the chair at the end of The Cave while Birthday and Theatre are going on?

If in Paradox he has the connection with Laura because they're in the machine together could it be that Mr Crow takes Laura's chair on the machine and that's why he's part of those memories?

[azure bay]

Birthday and Theatre are rather stops on a pretty real elevator ride

[weak python]

That lead to The Cave?

Paradox white cube

[azure bay]

vice versa

The Cave and Paradox are the beginning of that ride

[weak python]

Okay, I'm inclined to agree with you but what if…

what we're actually seeing is Dale taking the elevator journey that starts in the alternative ending of Paradox?

Which is inside his head.

Ignore me!

I'm stupid!

Mmmn. So where does Dale go in that elevator journey at the end of Paradox?

[wise temple]

To theatre and birthday, methinks

[azure bay]

Prophesied in RL Hotel

[weak python]

So are we reading that as two different Dales?

Or as a figurative he's going to take the elevator in the Paradox world so now he's going to take the elevator in the real world?

It's too confusing, folks!!!!

[azure bay]

Paradox is a dream

The Cave ending is the reality leaking into it

[weak python]

A dream that Dale has conjured himself or one that he's being subjected to?

Or something else?

[azure bay]

the latter

[weak python]

Okay cool. That feels right to me.

So where does dream Dale go when he gets in the dream elevator. Does dream dale visit the end of Rusty Lake hotel?

[azure bay]

I think it just gradually ends

Dale wakes up riding

enters the cubes

the destination is the hotel

[weak python]

Great. Thanks for all of this. I think my main problem is that I like to overcomplicate things that are already very complicated

[azure bay]

I suspect I'm often overcomplicating simple things

[floral mauve]

first time?

[weak python]

"No, I've been nervous lots of times!"

[vague imp]

I don't think if it counts as a theory but I was thinking wether playing inside the cube can mean locking yourself in the boundries of your own thoughts and like in cube escape: paradox says "rusty lake mental health and fishing" or something like this means that its actually made to show dale vandemeer where his mind brought him to, and is trying to open his mind as a form of solving puzzles that in reality are just his black thoughts, unaccepted situations, traumas (itp.) ( thats why in cube paradox the "mental health evaluation" showed us that dale was suffering from hard ptsd, depression, and being scared of the fish)

and.............

just claiming that rusty lake isn't a real place (like in the end of the past within it showed that rusty lake is place where past and future have blended). but more like some sort of place that shows you your mental stability level and some sort of eden

[azure bay]

What about Hotel, Roots, Paradise?

aren't they real too?

[vague imp]

I will think of something

Anyway I will either say that
a) its real
b) its some sort of story about place
c) it still is someones mind

[azure bay]

didn't get the b)

[vague imp]

Sorry English is not my native language I sometimes may speak gibberish or non clear

[vague imp]

Kind of like bible
Objectively written story in real world

Ye but this was just my thoughts after playing the past within

And mostly the ending

When they say that we need to dres ourselves from the cube or something

And then it is said that its a place where past and future blended

[azure bay]

what about people sharing perspectives? Like both Dale investigating Rusty Lake and Bob drowning his sorrows at Rusty Lake Theatre at the same time?

[vague imp]

That's a good point

Didnt think about it

Its just weird that he investigated place where time blends

(or it started blending after the past within idk)

[azure bay]

what r u talking about?

[vague imp]

Ending of past within

Where two versions of rose blend

[azure bay]

no, before that

[azure bay]

this

[vague imp]

Yes

This

Ending of past within

Where two versions of rose blend

[ebon aspen]

Just remember to mind tpw spoilers!

[vague imp]

Oh

How do I hide spoilera?

s*

[ebon aspen]

|| in both beginning and end of your sentence

[azure bay]

we can move to another thread

[ebon aspen]

Or use our thread, yeah

[vague imp]

|oke|

[vague imp]

Which one

[ebon aspen]

#945320126608179231

[ebon aspen]

One more in each edge

[vague imp]

||oke||

Yo

Thanks

No I'm just thinking how the Perfect way for rusty lake to continue the series is not to uncover mysteries behind some events but to make a lot more mysteries that people can connect into theories

[azure bay]

basically, their current strat

[vague imp]

Yes

[ebon aspen]

Theyll prolly leave some loosen ends so the players can speculate, but the major plot points will be addressed someday

I hope

[azure bay]

so are going to elaborate?

[vague imp]

Oh, yea, sure

[vague imp]

Ye I was thking about revealing the major plot twist but really I would prefer something like : uncoveringbut in the way that leaves even more theories

Okay i've changed the profile picture so I have one ear less to care for

[azure bay]

so

It seems I'm not getting my explanation

fair enough

[raw yew]

I don't know where else to ask this so I'm asking it here, I'm sorry if it's not the place for it, but does the past within add to the general lore?

[covert wyvern]

@raw yew Ye absolutely.

it gives us a new perspective on || the trees in the lake, for example || it goes into || the creation of cubes, and a new way of someone to be revived || it mentions || a loop || which could be a lot of things but could hint at || the loop of rebirth || we deal with in RL

either way if you're interested in theorising further i suggest checking out #945320126608179231

[raw yew]

I deeply appreciate those spoiler tags

Thanks for your help

[covert wyvern]

o have you not played

LMAO

well that's what the tags are for!!

those will not be present in the thread, mind you.

[raw yew]

Warning acknowledged. Thanks again!

[azure bay]

I think the loop here was literal. Well depicted in ||the ending||

[covert wyvern]

Mhm fair point

[raw yew]

@covert wyvern another question about the game, sorry to bother you. I still haven't bought the game and I would like to know if the two copies have to be linked somehow for the puzzles or would just simply turning on the game and a discord vc work fine?

[covert wyvern]

no connection required in game at all!

also you're not bothering me at all dw

[covert wyvern]

you do need two copies though.

if you get anymore general questions about the new game be sure to just drop em in #🦋｜the-past-within !

[raw yew]

Oh I didn't see the channel. Thank you so much for your help

[red geyser]

Is this code used anywhere?

[ebon aspen]

Not for now

[red geyser]

Oh ok cries in black cubes

[ripe hemlock]

where is this from?

👀

[covert wyvern]

Cube escape cave, final Easter egg basically

[hallow quiver]

What about the symbols next to each game in the Cube Series re-release last fall?

[hallow quiver]

I've been wondering if we could use that somewhere also

[ebon aspen]

Nowhere until now

At least not that we know

[high talon]

so anyways!I think the water at the lake is like 'breathable to mortals' [but not asuras since they no longer are humans]

because they are either 'choosen by the lake ™️' [aka Dale] or the souls help them breathe [like they make it easier do breathe there]

[azure bay]

how can we see that?

[high talon]

we can't but i mean

dfnnklblfd i just legit woke up and my brains still half asleep but once i get it do worky i will try explaining it

[azure bay]

does Mr. Crow walking across the lake bottom in The Cave do anything to your idea?

[high talon]

Hallucination?\

that's the vibes i got Dales mind is a fucking mess ngl who knows if anything he sees is 'true'

[azure bay]

The Cave isn't Dale's mind. It one of the most real games in the series

[high talon]

Well i mean

wait pause

wasnt he hooked up to the cave machine during the events of paradox?

it could've just been a 'virutal' mr.crow

like a hologram

[azure bay]

Dale was, Crow wasn't

Paradox is Dale's hallucination in The Cave, not the other way around

[high talon]

exactly so whos do say he didn't send a 'fake' version of himself into Dale's vision?

it could be possible no?

[azure bay]

in The Cave Dale wasn't conscious even for a second

it's completely Crow's perspective

[high talon]

no but i mean how do i word this

ngfdk like

Dale was in the machine in paradox yes?

like hooked up do it and all?

[azure bay]

Paradox is what Dale sees while connected to a real machine

[high talon]

yes!

And we can assume Mr.Crow was like in the room [with the machine] right?

[azure bay]

We saw him descending, recollecting Laura-Willaim's cubes, entering the room, hooking Dale up to the machine, creating the golden cube and sending Dale up the elevator

[high talon]

yeah okay pause for a second

So after hooking up Dale to the machine [i assume here] Paradox takes place during the same time?

like before he gets the golden cube n all

[azure bay]

yes. I assume whole infinite Paradox takes place in minutes between Crow putting a "VR helmet" on Dale and forming the golden cube

[high talon]

[[lmao]]

okay so

After Mr.Crow places the 'vr helmet' onto Dale how would he 'appear' in Dales memories

did he have an extra 'vr helmet' around?

[azure bay]

maybe he didn't need that. But yeah, he was in that dream.

[high talon]

[[i gotta draw Dale n Mr.Crow in a VR helmet curse you for placing that into my brain]

okay so

[azure bay]

however that's not related to "Asuras banned from the lake"

[high talon]

we can both agree that the Mr.Crow in the dream was 'fake'

[azure bay]

whole Paradox kinda is

[high talon]

Great and yeah ik lmao i havent figure the 'banned from Rusty Lake' yet

but i will work on that my half asleep/half awake brain just came up with that..

[azure bay]

I think Crow casually walking at its bottom disproves the whole idea

there is no reason to see The Cave less real than, let's say, Roots

[high talon]

just a casual walk

okay fair point lmao

theroizing is kinda fun ngl but boy oh boy does it become a mess huh [not that its bad] i love discussing

[azure bay]

agree on every point

[high talon]

sorry if i came off as defensive btw i haven't had my coffee yet

[azure bay]

we all are occasionally defensive

our brains don't like doing extra work

[high talon]

truer words have never been spoken

[red geyser]

Hello, so I don't know if this has been discussed before but: what we see in the Cube Escape games are all of Dale's memories , right? So we never actually see him act in real life, we see him travelling through memories. We don't know where he is at the moment ,right?

[floral mauve]

not all are his memories

some are Laura's

some are Crow

[marsh scarab]

but some are, when you see an elevator it's his memories

[red geyser]

True, that's what I meant

[marsh scarab]

And in case 23 I believe it's before he is abducted by owl

[red geyser]

But in Birthday we see that his memories have been altered, so maybe he was influenced before case 23?

[marsh scarab]

his memories are altered while he is in the elevator, we see crow multiple time helping him to figure out how to obtain a different outcome. (that's what I think is happening)

When the elevator will stop, the new timeline that crow and Dale are creating by modifying the memories/the past will be canon in the series I guess, and we don't really know what happened to Dale in the timeline where he didn't get in the elevator

thats my explanation

not sure that's it's right

[floral mauve]

I dont think they are creating timelines during the elevator trip, the branch is already chosen in paradox

golden cube

elevator is just to train him to fit it

[marsh scarab]

I need to get through paradox again

only played it once but in my perception of the timeline paradox happened after the cube escape games I may be wrong

[red geyser]

Right, so he is revisiting his memories and changing some of the outcomes. Mr. Crow got the golden cube which we are not sure what it does (but probably alters the future are the complete timeline) and Mr Owl wants Dale to be his replacement?

[red geyser]

Me to hahahah, also Paradox is a Cube Escape game

[marsh scarab]

the golden cube allow the future and the past to interact so I think they're really modifying things

[floral mauve]

So you think paradox happened after elevator trip?

[marsh scarab]

first part is, second part is not free so I count it as a separate thing

[floral mauve]

Welp, you can’t take tpw directly in that sense

Because a past cube which is black cube also has the feature

[marsh scarab]

NOOO before
my mind is buggy and english isn't my first language

[floral mauve]

And it’s spoiler

[floral mauve]

Bruh

[red geyser]

I thought black cubes were bad memories

[marsh scarab]

🕴️welp I'm basing my perception of things on this, I may be wrong, you may be wrong, who knows

[floral mauve]

They should be

Before tpw came out

[marsh scarab]

also paradox isn't in the cube escape collection game 🫠

[floral mauve]

And they are CS in some sense as well

[floral mauve]

That’s just the classification

Cube escape collection comes out after paradox

[marsh scarab]

it's more complicated, there's different sentences explaining the cubes in The Cave

[red geyser]

Honestly I haven't analysed TPW that much since I need to play the other side and also I was focused in the puzzles not the lore

[marsh scarab]

that really doesnt mean anything LMAOO

[floral mauve]

It does

It means there is no need to fit paradox in a collection

[marsh scarab]

if you think so ✨

[floral mauve]

Since paradox comes out in 2018 and CEC in 2020

It’s still quite a new game

And the devs stated that cube escape series have 10 games in total before release of paradox

[red geyser]

Yes, I have them in my notes hahaha, but they are quite ambiguous

[floral mauve]

So paradox is and should be considered as a part of the cube escape series

[marsh scarab]

I think it's better to keep our perception of what cubes are ambiguous

[red geyser]

I was going though my notes and in Birthday, Dale gets a letter for his birthday from HIS FRIEND HARVEY! So were they actually friends or is it an implanted memory by Mr Owl??

[floral mauve]

This part is controversial

I personally

Personally

Think Harvey’s letter is real

Because Owl already created a twisted one

There is no need to have another twisted one

[azure bay]

there might be, that was a globe hint after all

and it doesn't make sense

[floral mauve]

I am just speaking it from a logical way

[azure bay]

the postcard I mean

[azure bay]

from a logical way parrots don't befriend distant boys and don't send them postcards

[floral mauve]

This part is under context of rusty lake so it is logical

Two twisted letters aren’t logical in general

[red geyser]

What do you mean by "twisted"?

Like, lying?

[azure bay]

it is still not, considering Dale being a random person

supposing Dale being a random person*

[floral mauve]

Biased

Whatever the word is

[azure bay]

ahem

a person can be biased

a memory can be altered

changed

modified

it's easier to alter in another piece of paper than randomly stumble upon the chosen one your boss will be looking for about 70 years in total

especially when you are a parrot

the only way to justify Harvey's postcard being there originally is to make Crow his biological grandfather

[floral mauve]

alright so modified memory

[red geyser]

Probably,since Harvey lost his humanoid form in 1894

So he couldn’t have written the postcard

[floral mauve]

how dare u assume bird cant write

[red geyser]

hahahahah, well in the world of Rusty Lake you never know. He may as well have written the postcard in bird form

[marsh scarab]

I don't think that's plausible

[floral mauve]

it probably isnt

just random guesses

its just weird to have 2 modified letters at the same time

[carmine elk]

He used his mouth or someone wrote it for him

[floral mauve]

usually if u want to modify something, one letter is enough for some messages, no need to involve harvey

[carmine elk]

They

[floral mauve]

I have seen this guess years ago

some ppl say crow or owl wrote it but still, it doesnt make sense, with no motives or anything

[carmine elk]

I just think it’s funny I have no reason other then that

[floral mauve]

I understand

its just hard to explain Harvey's role in both CE birthday and on his unmodified birthday

other than

dale's friend

[carmine elk]

Truee, maybe it was to hint there was a hotel secret somewhere??
Harvey is an enigma

[high talon]

i always figured Dales dad wrote the note you know like

'hey its my sons birthday, might as well let him imagine his (imaginary) friend wrote him"

[floral mauve]

Dale's dad's name is Harvey Vandermeer

makes sense

[floral mauve]

bruh

[carmine elk]

That’s so cute actually

[high talon]

it is!

and ik its has 0 legs to stand on but hey not all theories gotta be complex

[floral mauve]

this makes Dale sad enough even before he had his trauma

worse than bruce Wayne

[carmine elk]

STOP THAT

[high talon]

look if my son spoke of a 'anthromorphic parrot'

i would think 'imaginary friend'

[floral mauve]

and in context of 1920s, asylum is waiting

[high talon]

stop making it deep n edgy /j

[carmine elk]

Anthropomorphic parrot in the snow globe

(The snow globe later was locked away)

[high talon]

lmao

[red geyser]

Is this confirmed???

[floral mauve]

no bruh

I was joking

Maybe I should cross it out

[red geyser]

ohhh I thought I had missed something

that would be crazy though

[floral mauve]

Not that hard to fabricate a fan fic theory in that

[azure geode]

Where exactly is "where it all started?"

[azure bay]

Seasons Spring 1964 if you are speaking of Harvey's egg

[strong heart]

So are we supposed to believe that (CE Birthday) ||Dale actually managed to prevent the deaths of his parents post facto or did he just change what he remembered and turned the cube from black to white?||

[floral mauve]

seems to be latter case

cure his trauma

or lets say overcome or even brainwash himself

u dont need the spoiler mark here except for tpw part

[strong heart]

Oh ok thanks

[wind axle]

kind of makes me wonder about van gogh's death because in arles he shot his corrupted soul and the cube was white

or did he turn into a corrupted soul and he shot himself?

[floral mauve]

tbh Arles is a confusing one, I personally believe he purged himself and got relieved from the mental health issues after the suffering

an example for Laura's case

however, I couldnt explain much about the white cube in this case

[wind axle]

ahh

[floral mauve]

perhaps someone else has a better explanation on that

like Parrot? or nowhere after he wakes up

[ebon aspen]

idk shit

[floral mauve]

a different opinion than my empty mind is nice

'I cannot think' Bob Rafferty voice

[ebon aspen]

But about arles (which i need to replay), id say gogh "discorrupted" his soul when he wiped out his memories, like what happened to laura after the cave

[wind axle]

yeah

[ebon aspen]

Or bob in twd

I dont recall the specific circumstances of each case tho

[floral mauve]

ehm, the part I am confused is that when he shot himself he got a white cube and the painting gave him the black cube

I could try to form an explanation on that or simple theory

[ebon aspen]

Id say its about how he dealt with life

[floral mauve]

He shot himself makes him relieved and happy, therefore, its a white cube
The painting contains his suffering and pain, therefore, a black cube

[wind axle]

i'm so curious as to like... what exactly the corrupted souls are
because in my interpretation i think that it's not a physical corruption, it's like mental corruption
like a person is completely '''corrupted'''' by their bad memories that they can't get out of a negative state, depressive state etc

[ebon aspen]

Yeah, this^

[wind axle]

yeah i can see that

[floral mauve]

yes my mind still has something in it

[floral mauve]

play hotel if u could

[wind axle]

yeah i did

[ebon aspen]

We all know how what happened to vincent irl, would even say the way its depicted in the game makes it even more beautiful (the game, not what happened)

[floral mauve]

but yea Van Gogh's case is similar to Dale and Bob

and Laura

[wind axle]

yeah

[ebon aspen]

Its subtle as a homage, but yeah lol it can confuse an avid rl fan that doesnt know about vincent

[floral mauve]

alive but suffers corruption issue, however, we arent certain on whether it is a physical real one or simply his hallucination pain. Most ppl believe its physically in Bob and Dale case

[wind axle]

i'm still wondering about dale

[floral mauve]

but Van Goh

I personally believe its not physically

he was just seeing things like Laura

[wind axle]

because iirc he was still flickering between corruption and his regular self on the ride of the elevator, and in paradox he was attacked(?) by his corrupted self

[floral mauve]

welp, u just jumped right into the rabbit hole

I really wish I could write and answer everything for u now

but I am super tired

I am sure nowhere will when he woke up

its late night in Europe

[wind axle]

hmmmm

[floral mauve]

in fact, let me trigger him @azure bay , he wont mind

[wind axle]

why would you do that lol

[red geyser]

So, I just realized thanks to these comments what a white cube really is. It means overcoming trauma, but it doesn't mean that the memory is a happy one.

[wind axle]

i like this idea

[red geyser]

For example at the end of Hotel, Mr Owls shows a white cube with the corrupted souls of all the family members who killed his mother. Trapped inside, so he had his revenge let's say.

[wind axle]

like Dale's birthday in uhhhhhh well birthday lmao, even though he just witnessed a man get shot by grandpa, it did kind of help him in some crazy way by preventing his parents and grandpa from being murdered.

the black cube turned into a white cube at the gunshot

[wind axle]

yeah

[red geyser]

Right, so Dale overcame his childhood trauma, thus the cube turned white

[wind axle]

yea

i'm still wondering why the heck is dale scared of fish

honestly i thought he'd be scared of rabbits

[red geyser]

But then, it it is a modified memory, his parents were actually killed. Then who raised Dale?

[wind axle]

dunno honestly

[red geyser]

dun dun duuunnn

[real lantern]

Yeah, i wonder when we'l get the backstory on that

[wind axle]

plot twist it's the fish with legs from harveys box /j

[real lantern]

That was very terrifying

[red geyser]

hahaha

How do we know he is scared of fish? Honestly I don't remember

[pure rose]

From paradox ch2

[wind axle]

yeah paradox ch2 his disorders include uhh anxiety, depression, claustrophobia, icthyophobia [fear of fish] and trauma i think

[red geyser]

Oh I only played that game once. I need to replay all of them

And find all the secrets

[slow ridge]

As tpw is already released more than a week, do you think it's fine to simply discuss the game without marking it as 'spoiler alert'

[ebon aspen]

For now id say its better to keep tpw's theories solely on #945320126608179231 , we still have lots of ppl looking for partners so we could end up spoilering the game for a carefree person

But the spoiler policy will prolly be lifted soon, yeah

[slow ridge]

Oic, didn't notice that tag in the sections until you told me. Thank you

[carmine field]

(I'm probably very late, but here is)
I've been reading up on theories linking Dale's grandfather to Mr. Crow for a while
My curiosity is mainly due to their design lines looking exactly the same
For a complex facial structure like theirs, it's strange that it's exactly the same lol
My opinion on this:

• even if the grandpa is not Mr. Crow, he still carries his appearance, at least in that memory (which may have been changed in some way)
• or it is just a reference lol

[ebon aspen]

We never saw gramps outside a memory, and we all know what crow can do with cubes on his hands
The main theory around is that gramps is indeed mr crow manipulating dale's bday memory in some sense, just like he did when taking the role of the theatre's bartender (he could have worked as a bartender by the time dale met bob at the theatre, but its more likely he was just infiltrating another memory)

[carmine field]

you read my mind

Otherwise, their family names are very similar and have special meanings, so I don't discard that Mr. Crow could be related to the Vandermeer family

[ebon aspen]

Its just a commom prefix

Van der = from the
Boom means tree and meer, lake

[carmine field]

Yeah, it can be

[carmine field]

Wait, wasnt he in Bob's memory too?

[wind axle]

yeah he was

[carmine field]

"Woman, can't live with them, can't live without them"

I'm sure it is him because of his design

[ebon aspen]

Yeah, i still consider him getting an actual job at the theatre but looking at everything it would make more sense for him to just be visiting ppl's memories

[carmine field]

Yeah, I agree with your point

[wind axle]

yeah i think it's interesting that mr crow just kinda invades peoples memories

also is the old woman in the mill mr crow's wife or is it just a random woman because we see him and her in the mill in the same game

[carmine field]

It's probably because of the elevator and/or the lake

[carmine field]

His wife

It's confirmed already

I'm very curious about her

[wind axle]

ye same here

[carmine field]

Because she seems to know (or simply ignores) what Mr. Crow was doing

Also, his mouth was sewn up

[wind axle]

did his wife do it

[carmine field]

at least she knows his nature

[azure bay]

this is not his memory, the color is not about Owl

[azure bay]

Black cubes are painful memories, white cubes are somewhat bright.

A good example are Laura's cubes in The Cave and The Mill. White memories are generally positive, black memories are horrifying or at least disturbing.

overcoming trauma is reconciling with your painful memories in one way or another

[red geyser]

@azure bay oh see, thanks for the explanation🙌

[wind axle]

you know i've always wondered

who the heck is the fisherman

and what was the corrupted soul we fished out in CE the lake, was it just a random boi or was it someone significant

[ebon aspen]

Weve seen aldous on the boat in c23 and iirc dale was fishing in the cave
But i always like to think the website game is canon and the fisherman was a random dude who got eaten by big fish

[wind axle]

ahh

[azure bay]

That wasn't Dale

Simply couldn't be him

He was at the lake bottom

[ebon aspen]

Couldnt he have arrived later

[azure bay]

We have a mural

Dale reaching the bottom after case 23

Owl guiding him through the guests

That was before the game began

We see the aftermath. Owl with breathing tube damaged

[ebon aspen]

@spiral fractal dont advertise

[ebon aspen]

Ah i always forget that wall from cave's part 1

[carmine field]

Replaying The Cave!

I find it curious how Dale's portrait was kept with the bat, knowing that, in the secret ending of Paradox Chapter 2, Mr. Bat appears to take Dale's golden cube and leave. Could they be related somehow?

I mean

the characters

[ebon aspen]

mr bat was around even bf dale was born, so if thats indeed a thing he would be an ancestor

but then, what would it change?

[carmine field]

Well, we just have to wait, since we don't have any evidence except for these possible hints

[azure bay]

I don't think it's Mr. Bat and not just an asset reuse.