🤔｜theories

[azure bay]

yes, but that means that his corruption isn't definitive

he goes back to normal and exits the loop as a human

[astral frost]

in fact, I think Dale is Corrupted during the whole Paradox series of events

true ending: Dale accumulated all the infos to "face his Corrupted Soul" and being enlightened. Notice that, in the true ending, we can't see Dale entering the elevator (so we can only guess his "shape")

[azure bay]

We can still look in the mirror and see a human. And before we assume Dale being corrupted all along we need more evidence

[astral frost]

you're right, but I assumed Dale is corrupted since Paradox isn't a "real" and objective series of events

so, Dale will see "himself" as a normal person until he really understands he's a Corrupted Soul

[azure bay]

If paradox doesn't indicate Dale's state then "Dale is completely corrupted" is even less backed up

[astral frost]

but the end of Chapter 2 is quite clear, in my opinion

Mr Owl says Dale that his final test is facing his Corrupted Soul

[azure bay]

yes, but that's the end of Chapter 2

if ch1 is repeated I see no reasons not to repeat chapter 2

and "final test" repeats again

[astral frost]

I agree with you

[azure bay]

and maybe again and again

[astral frost]

maybe I missed this part: we don't know how many iteration of the loop Dale faces, since he always wakes up without remembering anything

he only deducts things basing on the hints left by Mr Owl, Mr Crow and previous Dales

[azure bay]

actually he remembers a bit

indicated by the opening monologue

and "I'm stuck here again" in ch2

also, what I find interesting, the wound he got in ch1 stayed in ch2 and the movie

[astral frost]

you're right

[azure bay]

but I digress

I have other things to note

2. yeah, "we meet again" could mean a different thing as well

since even Mr. Crow implies that Dale looks for his present mind not for the 1st time

and here we lose the last evidence of Paradox taking place in the end because
3) the elevator on its own doesn't mean the end of the trip

[astral frost]

always thought the "journey" as Dale reaching the Hotel and becoming the next Ruler of the Lake

What he will do then, it's all to be discovered

[azure bay]

wdym?

[astral frost]

once reached the Hotel, Dale will become the new "Mr Owl" (or Mr-some other animal)

We have absolutely no clue about what Dale will do after that moment

[azure bay]

ah, ok I agree here

but Journey isn't quite finished with Paradox

He didn't reach the hotel yet

and Paradox' place in this journey is debatable

but tell me what

what is Paradox? How's this loop created?

How did Dale enter it?

[astral frost]

most of my theory is based on this assumption: Dale is Corrupted after his "memory loss" during his ride inside the elevator. Dale lives and balances old memories ("captured in little cubes") and modified memories (like Theatre). In the end, his mind is quite messed up, then Paradox starts

[azure bay]

hear me out

Paradox doesn't just start

[astral frost]

and facing the Corrupted Soul is the final test Mr Owl prepared for Dale, so he got through all the other ones

[astral frost]

since it is a loop, you're right

[azure bay]

Theatre has a distinct beginning

so does Birthday

If Paradox has an end it has to have some sort of beginning

[astral frost]

this doesn't help speculations, since it would make Paradox not placeable in any point of the timeline

[azure bay]

well, I have an answer to all these questions

I'm looking for an alternative

[azure bay]

and we've been here before

It's not final if it repeats itself

I mean

not THAT final

[astral frost]

in fact, Chapter 2 doesn't lead Dale to escape the Corruption

Mr Owl says "Face your CS", he doesn't mention killing Laura

Dale reads Mr Owl words as "kill Laura to escape"

but Mr Owl know this isn't the right choice

[azure bay]

I don't think corrupted Dale is able to read anything

and remember, it was Crow to give him a knife

"you know what to do"

[astral frost]

because the choice is always in Dale's hands

he will be enlightened only if he understands how to do it by himself

Mr Owl and Mr Crow can only leave some hints

[azure bay]

man

Usually when Crow gives you a weapon he means you to use it

[astral frost]

right

when Dale escaped the room with that blue vial, he had already made his choice

there was no turning back at that point

[azure bay]

ok, here I agree

[astral frost]

I talked too much

[azure bay]

and I want you to talk more

but maybe later

after you have reflected on certain questions

[astral frost]

okk haha, I was about to ask you if you had another theory about Paradox place in the timeline

but I'm here

[azure bay]

I'll share it later

I don't want to ruin your theory as it did many times before

[astral frost]

never ruined anything my dude!

just pointed out some things that were wrong

or questionable

[azure bay]

I telling that my theory has a history of convincing other people.

And I want to give a chance to the alternative

[astral frost]

okok, I'm here go on

[azure bay]

I'll give you several questions I'd like you to reflect on for a few hours

just to bake them well

1. How Paradox was created? (for example, Theatre is an altered memory)
2. What was the entry point of Paradox? (for Theatre it was a cube floating around the lake)
3. What was the choice of Paradox?
4. What were the consequences of these different choices? (outside Paradox as well)
5. How Dale is still traumatized by the massacre if his cube was fixed in Birthday?

[astral frost]

wdym in the third question?

[azure bay]

Crow speaks of the choice

right or wrong

what is this choice?

what are the options

what do they mean

why are they so important?

[astral frost]

got it

i think I could already answer to 3 and 4

I have to think more about 1,2 and 5

[azure bay]

I encourage you to reflect on all of them nevertheless

you may come out with more than 1 possible answer

[astral frost]

all right, I accept your advice👉

[azure bay]

by the way

completely unrelated

but have you seen my videos?

[astral frost]

didn't know you made videos OwO

how's your channel named?

[azure bay]

nowherenest

[astral frost]

new follower incoming

[azure bay]

Paradox is a long way to go, I'm only in the beginning of the series

but I can already suggest something new

and even you can, since you recently replayed CEC

[astral frost]

that's cool mate!

I've always looked for theory videos but I've always found summaries

which is something pretty useless if you want to go deeper in the narration

[azure bay]

well... pt A is actually a summary with some extra trivia

but pt B is all about speculations and theorizing

[astral frost]

nice

[azure bay]

and a little hard to comprehend so I'd really appreciate your feedback

[astral frost]

I'll watch them tomorrow or in the next days💪

now I'm a bit tired, I'm going to sleep

[azure bay]

gn

[astral frost]

goodnight!

[fossil lily]

the whole thing is solved but not also. the cabin and Harvey's box take place between spring and summer. so ur telling me it's not the correct timeline? like she was thinking that both of them happened in 1969 but actually it's a memory? but still, the room is very mysterious and everyone knows that laura is an important character so later in this series we might be able to solve the mystery of the room. ( and Harvey is the next level of mystery i don't even want to talk about it)

[azure bay]

I just want to say that doors mean nothing

Likely they are always there whether we see them or not

[astral frost]

just noticed a curious thing

in Case 23 Collection version, there are no more dates

retcon?

[azure bay]

I formulated such theory but think it's rather lazyness. Seasons lack all the dates except for the 1st one too

[hollow igloo]

I checked now, in seasons all the chapters show the year.

[azure bay]

Near cubes? Or does each have a respective screen?

[hollow igloo]

Before entering the cubes.

It shows both the season (obviously) and the year

[azure bay]

The thing is, it didn't when I was shooting for a video

[hollow igloo]

The last update for the CEC (mobile ver.) was more than a year ago. I don’t know about the PC version

[azure bay]

I'll check mobile stand-alone and PC

[hollow igloo]

Let me know

I know there are some little differences in some games, like the secret symbols in Samsara Room appearing when closing the window. They do appear in mobile but not in PC as far as I know

[azure bay]

Did you check past the spring?

[hollow igloo]

Plus, I watched now the walkthrough of Case 23, which I assume was recorded with the first version of the game, and dates were never shown. You could get them by crossing information with other games (fall 1971: death of the woman), plus some vague time indications (“for months, I could not think about anything else…”)

Not really, I’ll replay the first level and let you know

Yep, it still shows the dates

[azure bay]

No version shows Seasons dates for me

Except for the spring

Even CEC

[azure bay]

Just checked the old Flash version of Case 23. The dates are there

[hollow igloo]

Can you screenshot it? I’m curious, that is interesting for sure!

[azure bay]

A bit tricky but ok

[azure bay]

IOS?

[hollow igloo]

Ah, you mean that! Then I was looking the wrong screen, let me check quickly

[hollow igloo]

Yes

Plus, I just rewatched your vid, the dates are there in seasons

[azure bay]

I created them manually :з

[hollow igloo]

Ok, the first version of Case 23 has the dates, my mistake. Let me check the CEC

The CEC only shows the first one instead, confirmed

[hollow igloo]

Excuse me wtf

[azure bay]

For authenticity sake I took a blanc screen and added text with the font they use

Or something along those lines

[hollow igloo]

That is very strage, maybe there is a bug of sort?

[azure bay]

I can ||@!&?/|| and tell

@hollow igloo it seems to be a bug

[hollow igloo]

As I thought, that’s sad

[azure bay]

I'm reporting

[hollow igloo]

Wait a second, probably there was a misunderstanding

In seasons, you mean something like a black screen before starting the level or the years in the menu (the “pick your memory”)?

Just like you have shown me in Case23

If you mean that, then that screens are not present. They probably cut it because it was redundant

Since the years are already shown in the menu screen

[azure bay]

I have a strong suspicion it's a bug

[hollow igloo]

If you mean that, I misunderstood you, I was thinking that the years were not appearing at all, not even in the menu

[azure bay]

I do mean that and still I have reasons to think it's a bug

[hollow igloo]

Maybe, it could. Just to say that probably there are no differences in our versions.

Fact-checking is fun

[floral mauve]

Alright, after reading the whole conversation between Edd and nowhere, I dont have much of question, since the paradox ch2 and ch1 we are all sort of agree with.

then just like what nowhere asked, I cant see why paradox would happen at the end of the elevator trip

[halcyon nacelle]

hmm

[vapid hinge]

So, why is Paradox the last room in Cave?

1. Dale flickers between normal self and CS during the Paradox chapters, and he resets to normal at the top of each chapter
2. We see him with a golden cube, the only other place we see one is in the Cave, where Crow synthesizes one with a bl/bk/w cube(s) and Laura and Dale, wherein Dale flickers between himself and his cs afterwards
3. Crow gives Dale the golden cube next to the elevator, but this could also be the lead-in for Birthday and Theater

[halcyon nacelle]

like i said maybe it's placement in the timeline is a paradox by itself

time paradoxes are tricky

since they don't really have a beginning or end

but at the same time they do

[vapid hinge]

I saw that after you posted, but yes perhaps it's placement is a Scrödinger's cat

[azure bay]

Paradox is mostly Dale seeing corrupted-self killing Laura

And it takes place inside his mind

[halcyon nacelle]

yeah

[vapid hinge]

Mmhmm

[halcyon nacelle]

do both timelines actively exist?

like the "regular" ones and the changed ones

like birthday where his parents die and where he saves them

[azure bay]

Depends on your other beliefs. I personally think so but I have no way to definitivelyprove it

[halcyon nacelle]

yeah fair

me too

wonder what exact events led to dale becoming a detective

Also his fear of fish??

[astral frost]

Murder of his parents

[halcyon nacelle]

yeah but then they are alive

and he's still a detective

[azure bay]

Laura cancels her death in Seasons. And we still follow Dale's story that shouldn't exist

[halcyon nacelle]

yeah

so both probably exist

both timelines

and even more timelines in paradox

if i remember correctly there was a part in paradox where dale saw multiple timeline versions of himself

like a corrupted soul and him hanging from a noose

[azure bay]

Not really. Paradox is inside Dale's head. A dream, a coma. All these timelines lead to a single result (or 2 at most)

[halcyon nacelle]

hmm

so timelines that could have potentially happened

but they didn't

correct?

[azure bay]

I'll reflect on it and answer later

[halcyon nacelle]

thank you

although i feel like that makes sense

dale seeing different timelines of how he could have ended up

[azure bay]

It's effectively a virtual environement created by his mind and Owl's will

Recorded on a cube and put into a loop

[halcyon nacelle]

mhm

[azure bay]

Each loop iteration is called a timeline

The paradox is, some of them cross one another

These "timelines" take place one after another but at the same time somewhat simultaniously

It's a single Dale inside his head

But time and time again he goes back creating a different timeline

[pastel coyote]

So is the white door just a cover for the lake? I mean the guy in charge kind of looks like mr. owl, and mr. crow being the bartender and all that leading to bob ending up at the white door, kind of makes me think that mr. owl and mr. crow are both very evil. I we all kind of knew that mr. crow was evil, but I didn't think mr. owl was.

[azure bay]

It's a sister company in Bob's city

[pastel coyote]

okay but do we know if the head of the white door is mr. owl, I mean the guy looks like him and sounds like him.

[hollow raptor]

i don't think it was 100% confirmed, but most of us assume he is

[azure bay]

not quite for both but nevertheless it's him

[pastel coyote]

well I mean you see mr. owl as a human in theatre and the guy in charge of the white door looks exactly like him, the only difference is that one is wearing glasses.

[azure bay]

it's deeper

TWD and the games being released after it all follow the global Paradox redesign

[pastel coyote]

Do you have anything to prove that they're not the same

[azure bay]

it's him, I'm just telling why I wasn't sure about it before

and why I am now

[pastel coyote]

Oh okay, I mean mr. crow has changed designs like twice already

[azure bay]

in Paradox it was very different

the art style as a whole changed

and so was Owl's human form

[pastel coyote]

yes, but mr. owl looks the same in paradox

[azure bay]

not exactly

he was drawn differently every new time he's on screen

including Paradox

[pastel coyote]

Yes but his human design is the same in theatre and paradox

[azure bay]

similarly looking*
not the same

dude I was looking into this shit like crazy

[pastel coyote]

it's the same design

just because it's not drawn the same doesn't mean it's a diffrent design

it's like saying dale changed designs every game he's in

he doesn't it's just that some times when you redraw something it looks slighty diffrent

[azure bay]

it's not. His face was consistent across all the games before Paradox

line to line consistent

a body change was only in The Cave

[pastel coyote]

Dale has been drawn slightly diffrent each game, because that's what happens when you redraw something, dale was redesigned in paradox. the diffrence is that in paradox the change was larger.

[azure bay]

that's the thing. Dale wasn't redrawn each time

they just reused the same asset over and over

that was not the case with Owl's human form

[pastel coyote]

The reason it's different for mr. owl is because you see him more, because you never see dale outside of morrirs outside of a few cases, meanwhile mr. owl you always see him and in different circumstances and wearing diffrent outfits

[azure bay]

you are wrong. You see Dale from 3rd person perspective in The Mill, Hotel, Birthday, Theatre, The Cave and Paradise

and every single time his face is the same we see in the mirror

[pastel coyote]

Yes and he's always wearing the same outfit and standing in the pose, mean while mr. owl is drawn multiple times, because he wears different outfits and is in different poses

[azure bay]

man, I'm telling you, Dale's postures differ but not the face

and Owl was redrawn every time

completely

not even his head was ever reused

[pastel coyote]

Yes he was redrawn, but his design hasn't changed, I don't think his design even changed in paradox. (not counting jacob)

[azure bay]

I'm telling it's a different design for Owl because for a ton of other characters and objects it was a much stronger revamp. Dale, Laura, Crow, corrupted soul, a fish, a deer, lines and colors in general

it's a different art style in Paradox

and it's used till this day

so tell me

why did they redesign everything for Paradox (including a huge unused close-up for Owl) but a year later did a separate redesign for Owl?

and that was very confusing and misleading for me

Since Dale, Laura, Crow and fish didn't change since Paradox I expected the same from Owl

his voice sounds a bit off too

and Bob Rafferty always being on the majority of roles didn't help either

so it's kinda similar (which you totally would expect from the same actor) but just a bit deeper

[pastel coyote]

I think the deer changing was because the deer from hotel and case 23 was nicolas while the deer in paradox was dale

[azure bay]

ok... nitpicking... but I'll respond nevertheless. I'm not speaking of Dale the deer. I'm speaking of an animal deer you meet in the forest. It's a clear reference to its Case 23 counterpart. The same posture. general similarity, then they are both beheaded but still they are drawn in different art styles.

[pastel coyote]

that ones still dale though.

[azure bay]

it becomes Dale later

he takes this head and wears it

but the deer itself is meant to represent the old one

which doesn't even look like Mr. Deer

[pastel coyote]

I pretty sure that it's dale because that's the role he's suppose to fill, the book from pardise shows the life cycel and after human is deer, and after owl is fish, which is why when you give mister owl the mind of the future he turns into a fish.

And the deer you find in paradox has the same head as deer dale has

[azure bay]

Dale will become a deva and deer is a freaking animal

[covert wyvern]

you really cant expect people to know all the fancy lingo y'all hardcore theorists use

[pastel coyote]

yes and owls andcrows are freaking animals and yet jacob still became an owl and aldous became a crow

[azure bay]

ok, here's a little life cycle lesson

Mr. Crow, Mr. Owl and other "hybrids" are asuras, demigods

Dale is destined to become a deva (a god)

even though they have some animalistic features, they are not animals, they are humanoid

sentient, enlightened, powerful to some extent

[pastel coyote]

Yes, but they get animal features for being enlightened, which I assume is a part of dales journy

[azure bay]

Dale becoming a bipedal deer doesn't mean a beheaded deer is him

[pastel coyote]

No but that has the same head as he does, like how the deer in case 23 looks more like nicolas deer

[azure bay]

it doesn't look like Nicolas because Nicolas is another completely unrelated design

[pastel coyote]

the only difference is that is front facing and the other is side facing, the coluoration and antlers are the same.

[pastel coyote]

That's a mask, I'm refering to mr. deer from hotel, who was nicolas

[azure bay]

here you go. still unrelated

[pastel coyote]

I could've sworn that they looked more a like.

[analog yacht]

tbf the art styles have changed a decent bit in some subtle ways. So it may just be stylistic differences

[pastel coyote]

I still think that the deer from paradox was dale

[azure bay]

I'm stating that Paradox change in design is a huge leap in comparison to every single one that came before it

[analog yacht]

Ye, and I agree

[pastel coyote]

Yes and we all agree on that

[azure bay]

here's the story. Here we have a Case 23-looking deer.

now it's beheaded and pretty much dead. Its head lies several screens to the right

Dale finds it and wears it as a mask. He's weirdly happy about that

[pastel coyote]

Do you understand that dale is going to mr. deer like nicolas was, and that was hinting it back in chapter one, before reveling it in chapter two

[azure bay]

I don't get why you are so excited about Nicolas

[azure bay]

and I see no problem here, why?

[pastel coyote]

He's not wearing the deer's head, his head is the deer head.

[azure bay]

we see this head lying there

[pastel coyote]

how do you wear a deer's head as a mask? he would need to hallow it out fist and even then it would still be driping blood.

[azure bay]

Paradox is still a dream

but I think this debate strays away

[pastel coyote]

how is it a dream?

[analog yacht]

Crow explicitly calls it the boundaries of Dale's mind, no?

"You cannot escape the boundaries of your own mind"

Which is likely also why it's looping. And since it changes based on which "mind" is being used

[azure bay]

Dale is connected to a machine in The Cave. In the ending he, still sleeping, gets the golden cube and is dragged into the elevator. The ch2 secret ending is what Dale sees during that

[pastel coyote]

Okay but that thing with the machine was at the start of his journey, and paradox is at the end of his journey, mr. owl even say in paradox that "finding his corrupted soul is the last test"

[azure bay]

didn't you notice that Paradox is a repeating loop? "finding corrupted soul" kinda wasn't the final test of Paradox (and kinda was in a different sense) because Dale still wakes up in that room and eventually drinks the blue vial again

[pastel coyote]

Yes, but I don't think you "find" you're corrupted soul after drinking the blue vial, you become it

And it's not like after talking to mr. owl you have to drink the blue vial

[azure bay]

and where is the final test in the 1st place?

[pastel coyote]

That's the thing I don't think we've seen the final test yet, I think that's gonna happen when dale gets to the hotel

Also if paradox was just dale hooked up to that machine, they why is mr. bat there?

[azure bay]

ok, you don't contradict me here. If it's in the hotel, I see no obstacles to put Birthday and Theatre on the way there

[pastel coyote]

mr. bat is in the elevator in the secret ending, which implies that the elevator is going to the hotel

[azure bay]

it was always going to the hotel

from the very beginning

[pastel coyote]

mr. bat isn't in the elevator in birthday or theatre

And it's not like the devs didn't plan ahead

[azure bay]

don't tell me that. Their worldbuilding is as soft as a marshmallow

considering The White Door appearing in the story out of nowhere

but even IF paradox was planned ahead

[pastel coyote]

Is it, I remember see the lady of the lake all the way back in case 23, way before paradise

[azure bay]

it doesn't mean they thought through the Eilanders and Paradise, even Caroline.

[pastel coyote]

Also yeah the white door did come out of nowhere, what does that have to be with the story

[azure bay]

it's a very good example of something being introduces into the story retroactively

[pastel coyote]

They knew that caroline would be important back then

Unless you think that they were just sitting there and decide "hey remember that character we made that haven't use, you think we should use it?"

[azure bay]

they literally took a renaissance painting, redrew it to feature the cube, made a reference to King's Arthur's legend and placed it in Laura's apartment implying she's the lady of the lake (they confirmed the latter a year ago at gamescom)

[pastel coyote]

You can claim it's all retro actively added, but at the end of the day there haven't be any story contradiction so far

Also the tv in paradox can show bob dead at the bar, and since it's in dales mind then can dale just see the future?

[azure bay]

What I'm telling, they don't have to think everything through. You were not in their head during the game creation, so wasn't I and we both may come up with a plausible story that likely has nothing to do with the reality

[pastel coyote]

There's clearly a story, you can't just ignore flaws in your theories, by saying that the games has no real story.

[azure bay]

1. Theatre is also a memory, he met Bob during Case 23 in the theatre and probably saw him shooting himself.
2. Even if he didn't see the latter, the dream is heavily controlled by Owl and Crow who knew and saw it

[azure bay]

don't put the words I didn't say into my mouth please

I'm just saying that the story may be built and refined on a go

[pastel coyote]

I'm pretty sure that dale arrested bob at there, because the time is right before dale arives at the lake.

[covert wyvern]

This doesn't seem very friendly anymore

[pastel coyote]

Bold of you to assume this was ever friendly

[covert wyvern]

now don't start with me, that will not end up in your favour.

This conversation is now over, y'all just gotta respect eachother's difference of opinion and move on.

[pastel coyote]

Sorry, I'm not trying to start anything, I was making a joke

[covert wyvern]

continuation of the hereabove conversation will immediately lead to a mute.

[pastel coyote]

Understood

[covert wyvern]

have a nice evening!

[covert wyvern]

my bad in that case!

[pastel coyote]

it's okay, it's hard to tell sometimes if someone's joking or not when it's text on a screen

[azure bay]

I do respect his opinion. I'm a bit concerned that he accuses mine without even trying to review it unbiased. As you know, I've been reflecting on the lore for years now

[covert wyvern]

well im glad we're respecting each other's opinions out here

we'll still be having a nice lil cool off though

Ahem

don't make me repeat myself.

[pastel coyote]

Oh sorry

[azure bay]

@pastel coyote could you please prepare for tomorrow the holes you see in my vision?

[alpine hollow]

i was was think and...

there is a bunny man corrupted soul in hotel

and the bunny man that killed Dale's parents

the corrupted bunny man is wearing a mask

right?

and

Albert uses a mask, and Rose to

coincidence?

[covert wyvern]

Perhaps! masks play an important role in paradise too.

[alpine hollow]

i don't know what to conclude with this but it's a bit coincidence

[alpine hollow]

im not remembering

oh

the rituals

yeah

what I'm think is

why would a corrupted soul wear a mask

and why there is other bunny man since the corrupted bunny man is in the lake

[astral frost]

it seems that one isn't a mask, but his own face

in the last level of Hotel, when you go into Mr Owl room, you can see the Guests' Corrupted Souls trapped

so we could suppose it is his real face, even if it's different from all the other Corrupted Souls (completely black)

[alpine hollow]

but why this one would be different

[astral frost]

different from?

[alpine hollow]

the only one who i can see the face

[azure bay]

I bet on a unique inspiration

[astral frost]

you mean Mr Rabbit?

[alpine hollow]

nonono

the one who killed dales parents

[alpine hollow]

lol

[astral frost]

got it

[alpine hollow]

so, there are two rabbit mans, one corrupted and the other is dead

[azure bay]

They are confirmed to be the same

[alpine hollow]

i think not

[astral frost]

and also the same "person" who joined Jakob's sacrifice in Paradise

aka David Eilander

[alpine hollow]

bcs after the corrupted souls leave the hotel, the incident of dales birthday happens

[azure bay]

@alpine hollow do you believe Eilanders became the guests?

[alpine hollow]

yes

[azure bay]

And Raabbit from Birthday is D. Eilander

[alpine hollow]

no

[azure bay]

Canon info from Paradox

[alpine hollow]

bcs david died in hotel

[azure bay]

I'm not telling how that happened. I'm just telling a fact.
"Please call Mr. Eilander, the magician"

[alpine hollow]

:0

i remember

let me think a bit

so

mister eilender killed dales parents

[azure bay]

D. Eilander, according to the phonebook

[alpine hollow]

hmmm

and what about the rabbit in hotal

he was a magician to

but brown

haha

[azure bay]

And likely he used to be Eilander

D.[avid] Eilander

[alpine hollow]

in conclusion...

tell me so i can maybe understand better

[astral frost]

I guess a look to the timeline would clarify this

[azure bay]

All the 3 characters are the one entity

[alpine hollow]

how

[azure bay]

Different incarnations

[alpine hollow]

oh

and time travel

right?

[azure bay]

I think so

[alpine hollow]

one more question

in birthday

the rabbit stole the pistol

that item is important

but i dont remember the name

[azure bay]

Past life substance

[alpine hollow]

that

why he needed that

[azure bay]

"to escape his state" normally, it means rebirth or enlightenment

Which require balancing such substance

[alpine hollow]

with that u mean, who drinks the elixir cannot rebirth

[azure bay]

No, enlightenment doesn't really look like rebirth in the best understood cases

But technically it kinda is

[alpine hollow]

rusty lake and his lore 💀

[azure bay]

I pesonally believe the Eilanders were reborn, not transformed like Crow. But it's debatable and now I'm trying to be objective

[delicate atlas]

I think I agree

Because they don't remember their past lives

So they probably were reborn

[alpine hollow]

ohh

[delicate atlas]

Just like Laura

[alpine hollow]

make scence

[azure bay]

Or at least they seem not to

[delicate atlas]

While Crow and Owl where transformed

And still have memories of their past lives and who they are

[azure bay]

Technically, Owl was reborn too. His old body was scorched and the new one doesn't share the expected key facial features

[alpine hollow]

so how they reborn animals

[delicate atlas]

I think his old self in paradox looks like him but older obviously

[delicate atlas]

They're asuras

Demi gods

In the shape of human animals

[alpine hollow]

what

XD

[delicate atlas]

Part of Samsara cycle

[azure bay]

On a closer look ears and nose don't match. While in Crow's case they do

[delicate atlas]

Read about it on Wikipedia

[delicate atlas]

Imo it's because owl gained weight

[alpine hollow]

wikipedia doenst have rusty lake lore

XD

[delicate atlas]

So that added fat to his nose and changed its shape

[delicate atlas]

I meant samsara cycle lol

It's a real thing

[azure bay]

These are not the parts gaining weigth.

[delicate atlas]

In Hinduism iirc

[alpine hollow]

i cant conclude nothing lol

[azure bay]

Also buddhism and some other isms

[alpine hollow]

seems like everybody has a diferent opinion about the lore

[azure bay]

I observe many vague and less so facts having different interpretations

Some of them are more fundamental than others

And usually every theorist forms their own set of interpretations

Sometimes even seemingly obvious things can't be agree on

Quite recently I discovered that people believe in Harvey's box being outside the cabin while I was always thinking the opposite

And both views are actually based on something

[alpine hollow]

well its a fact that is inside

its just look outside the box

[azure bay]

That what I thought

But apparently the white ceiling which I thought was just inconsistent could be seen as a sky

Of the same color the sky over the lake is

[fossil lily]

So, how did Mr owl knew that they are his family??

Another question, if vanderboom brothers drank elixir together, then when does the ce cave take part?

[azure bay]

I have no idea for the 1st question

and I didn't get the second one

[delicate atlas]

They drank it in 1890s

The cave takes place in 1970s

The bald man in the cave isn't the other brother

It's mr. Owl's human form

[delicate atlas]

When the CS appears to kill harvey you can see a sky and the cabin on the left side

Like the outliers of it on the outside

[azure bay]

long story short something doesn't make sense

it's either an inconsistent ceiling or mindless copy-paste of the cabin walls on the sides

[floral mauve]

watch out, nowhere isnt ready for this /jk

we had many debate on this and its quite exhausting and it seems to be a terrible trigger

[azure bay]

it's feels like someone trying to spoil me "Luke, I am your father" moment

[delicate atlas]

LMAO

Alright

I honestly don't think it matters

[floral mauve]

well, it matters in nowhere's video

and its about how many CSs were there in The Lake

[azure bay]

nope. There, I don't even think about it

at least yet

[floral mauve]

?

you said ur theories will be affected

if the box is outside

[azure bay]

they aren't for now

maybe in the remake

maybe not

it was about thinking of new versions

[floral mauve]

right

[high talon]

hey i have a question?

When you drink the elixir and become a animal how does it decide what animal do you become?

[azure bay]

totemic, I guess?

[high talon]

totemic?

[azure bay]

some shamanic nonsense about people resembling animals and having spiritual connections to them

[high talon]

huh...

that would make sense thanks :) i was asking this bcs im talking to a DM friend about a RL TTRPG

i might make a whole system for it bcs nothing really fits..

[azure bay]

maybe pop culture analogy would be HP patronus

[high talon]

i watched harry potter long ago, but i have forgotten half of it lmao

[azure bay]

imo you didn't lose much

[slow ridge]

I just realized that James must be Aldous' son

Woah

[delicate atlas]

Can be

But no one knows for sure

Some think there's a third vanderboom brother

[fossil lily]

yea i knew that but why did mr crow drank elixir again? and, can mr owl and mr crow can turn into human form anytime they want?

[azure bay]

they can

but also the elixir effect wears off

for the same reason they can make its extract

ironic

something that kills them also gives them a delay

[fossil lily]

bro how do u know so much about rusty lake -

[azure bay]

observations, reflection, discussions

[slow ridge]

Like William, James died from the exilir. Do you think he’ll return as a corrupted soul too?

[azure bay]

if he were, we'd likely already know

on the other hand, we didn't know that about Albert until recently. But Albert is a more interesting character than James

[slow ridge]

Not only the Elianders, in fact, literally all Vanderboom died from gruesome reasons (all killed by Albert), then Albert is murdered by Frank, (maybe implying his return as a corrupted soul) in tpw. I wish if the Vanderboom could be explored more and make appearances into future games just like Elianders

Eg. Lady in blue in theatre, white door and ms pheasant
Mr deer in case 23
Mr rabbit in Birthday
Ms pigeon in Harvey’s box etc

[azure bay]

1. Eilanders as a group are much more interesting than the most of Vanderbooms

2. Eilanders could be created retroactively as an origin for the guests

3. The Lady of The Lake in Theatre is a confusing character. If she's Pheasant for real, it kinda contradicts the universe laws we know so far.

A pigeon has even less evidence of being Mrs. Pigeon

[slow ridge]

Well, I think the Vanderbooms are more interesting. While the Elianders a group of zealot, murderous family who would cost anything to achieve immortality. The Vanderbooms are of a complex family full of love, hate and grieve. A family entangled by fate, desires and vengeance.
Even though may not be the same person, there must be some connection between the Lady of the Lake and Ms pheasant. I believe that the lady is actually a blind, human version of Ms pheasant. Possibly a corrupted soul captured and modded for Mr Owl’s needs for a while.
That is really Ms Pigeon in Harvey’s Box. Harvey have too fight off a corrupted soul with wings in the end.

[azure bay]

1. Their attitude was the thing that made them interesting in the long run. And immortality made it possible for them to return

2. Vanderbooms except for certain individuals lack that potential and the story of the most of them is pretty much over with no clear possibility of a new plot driving conflicts. I'd personally love to see Leo and Frank if they survived but I expect nothing more than a brief cameo.

And both Rose and Albert are getting their games already.

3. That connection could pretty much be an actress playing Pheasant. That's the most simple explanation despite being anticlimactic even for my liking.

4. Sorry dude, that's just a theory for now. We didn't straight see that pigeon turning into a CS, we don't even know if the guests were a thing that early on. (Especially considering TWD being introduced into the lore out of nowhere)
   And also how many distinctively bird CS we saw so far with wings? Actually none, every single CS with a beak we meet has no visible wings.

@slow ridge

[slow ridge]

Well, so are the Elianders. As you can see, not all of them have an interesting story to tell. Except Jacob, David and Elizabeth. They are more like forming a history together, or like a group story. And they are quite united when it comes to luring a boy back just to burn him alive
But every Vanderboom member in fact have their own desires and storyline to tell. Even if it’s a short one. A story that makes me feel touched sometimes. Emma’s fatal grieve, Albert’s unending rage and lust for vengeance, Ida playing a mysterious part etc. For me, there are more internal conflicts to be seen within them comparing with the Eilanders. This is just personal preference and I respect different povs

[azure bay]

That's the thing, Eilanders work as a group while Vanderbooms' individual stories are over no matter how great they were.

we lost our interest in them

they are unlikely to surprise us

unlikely to become relevant for the ongoing story

[slow ridge]

Well except me lol

[slow ridge]

I don’t need surprise, I need passion and heart wrenching stories

[slow ridge]

Several of them remains extremely relevant though
Albert
Laura
Rose
Ida
Aldous
William

[azure bay]

William-Laura and Aldous are a different case. They already earned their roles in the story while Emma, Ida, Mary, Frank, etc. Are merely background characters.

Can you realistically imagine new stories told by them? I don't, only giving more details for the existing ones and that's likely not happening cause TPW will feature only 2 levels

[slow ridge]

You mean it’s going to be a short game?

[azure bay]

I mean, there will be 2 chapters

Paradox is also 2 chapters

[slow ridge]

I still Ida plays a role in later games, not only implied in the demo game, but we can see her in the road map

[azure bay]

the roadmap is vague, you can't always say for sure what's the past, what's the future and what's just an easter egg

[slow ridge]

The Eilanders have become background characters for a long time ever since they died in the hotel. Morphed into , hungry vengeful, hollow creatures lusting for death

[azure bay]

they became one of the conflicts Dale has to resolve

and Rabbit in particular was made interesting enough to get an interesting story happening behind the scenes

made from the start

[slow ridge]

Yeah, mr rabbit is interesting though

This game has been confusing and even those who play it don’t exactly know what is happening. We could only wait for the future games.
I’m glad to discuss our views together

[azure bay]

you mean Rabbit?

[slow ridge]

I mean our views over the plot and characters

[azure bay]

I think we will never know enough

many games set more questions than they answer

and many of these questions are left behind in the end

because they are irrelevant for new stories

[sage token]

Is the corrupted soul in The Lake Mrs Pigeon?

[floral mauve]

maybe but quite unclear

[sage token]

I can't think of many CSs with wings. And there was a pigeon. So that's my thought

[floral mauve]

thats true

why should we limit ourselves to the guests though? There could be other CSs

[sage token]

Oh that's true

[floral mauve]

We also have a mysterious bird figure in Roots but I think the possibility is uncertain

My thought was also pigeon but I dont think it matters much, there are many controversies on the number of the CSs at The Cabin rather than whom they are

[sage token]

ah

[floral mauve]

I am not good at this part

have to summon

@azure bay

[azure bay]

That CS in HB was the only CS with wings

[sage token]

I thought there was another bird-like one standing on a house in one game

[floral mauve]

.

[azure bay]

It's bird-like because of the beak but not wings

[sage token]

ah okie

[charred forum]

is paradox a loop?

since lik

chap 1 and 2, after 2 cutscene and the film

is all a bit different

[floral mauve]

have u found out about the secret endings

@charred forum

[charred forum]

yes

[floral mauve]

then u kinda broke the loop

[charred forum]

but lik if you regard that then

oh

[floral mauve]

?

[charred forum]

no i meant how if you dont lik

know the secret ending

then is it a loop

whatever nvm

lmao

[floral mauve]

I guess so?

[charred forum]

i just liked the settings of paradox

thats it pretty much

[sage token]

Remind me, what is the function of the gold cube? White is good memories, black is bad memories, and blue is used to time travel into the past

Right?

[analog yacht]

Gold is the future iirc

[sage token]

So I fell down a mini rabbit hole. On a whim I googled

alchemy "blue cube"
And the first result was a forum, I have no idea what it was about and navigating it was a bit of a headache, but the article it linked mentioned a yellow/blue cube having to do with alchemy.
Again, it was hard to tell what was going on, even on the first page it felt like I was dropped into the middle of a conversation, but someone mentioned that whatever blue cube they were talking about could be lapis lazuli. Then someone else mentioned the existence of lapis pilosophorum which is the Philosopher's Stone. Of course I've heard of that but I did think it was strange that Rusty Lake never mentioned the Stone in their games despite the extensive references to alchemy. So I googled the Stone welp it's also known as the Elixir of Life so I guess Rusty Lake did mention it lol

[sage token]

Ah thank you! I suspected it

[azure bay]

that's very surface-level

the golden cube is a form of elixir of life and death (hence the insignia in the book)

and the future it's the key to is Dale's fate to be enlightened

[sage token]

Ohh

[sage token]

What year does The Lake take place? I think it's 1971?

[ebon aspen]

Prolly 1969

Yeah, just confirmed on the timeline

[sage token]

Oh thank you!

[astral frost]

Is it possible that the Eilanders, as Asuras, visited the Hotel more than one time?

I mean, playing as William we can see them in the Hotel in 1870, and they die in 1893

Mr Owl could have manipulated them, winning their trust time by time

Or maybe it's just one of the strange foreshadows you can see at the Lake

[ebon aspen]

It wouldnt be weird

[delicate atlas]

I never noticed that

Thanks for pointing it out

[carmine elk]

Oh my god they’re regulars

[delicate atlas]

Thought the two happened at the same time 💀

That can explain the addiction part

They went to the hotel to feed their addictions

That's why harvey knows each of them's addiction and how to cater to it

And where their rooms are

Explains the rooms being designed specifically for them before they arrive too

[ebon aspen]

Or
Time breaches

Everything happen at the same time on the lake

[carmine elk]

All I know is I want to pet the guest more then I should

[azure bay]

No, that was just boar. The rest seem to either work for Owl or do similar jobs independently

[azure bay]

How do I put it?.. Harvey works there, he has to know or at lest can easily find out who lives where. It's his job.

Speaking of rooms already having all the gear, I see no problem in delivrring all of that a day before the guests' arrival

[delicate atlas]

Fair

[carmine elk]

I still think Dale has that cat in the vent for emotional support idc nobody can talk me out of it

[floral mauve]

*casually screwed the vent to take out the cat

[carmine elk]

Just holds it oh so close and kisses it’s head

[floral mauve]

then after he finished, open the vent and screwed it back in

[carmine elk]

Dale

[carmine elk]

Ok I must explain why I connect Elizabeth Eilander to The lady in blue in theater and it’s actually really easy to understand.

So in this theory Elizabeth is connected to Ms Pheasant just go with it.
Ms Pheasant obviously represents The lady in blue in theater/the white door cause of the fact they wear the same clothing and are doing the same play we know that and the hat in her puzzle.
When introduced to The lady in blue she “dies” and asks us to balance her past lives one of the items is a shell which usually I’d think it’s just rusty lake to be rusty lake but the other items seem to important for it to be a typical rusty lake shell thing (which technically at the end of the day I guess it still is) and for some reason my brain auto connected to shell being a representation of paradise somehow and we’re aware of the hat from Ms Pheasant.
the baby and heart are separate things of mine that I won’t go into cause I’m already embarrassed enough typing this up
Ok I’m done talking now actually bye

ALSO I JUST THINK ELIZABETH SHOULD BE IN SILLY LIMBO LIKE HER SIBLINGS OK BYE

[delicate atlas]

Maybe the shell references the puzzle in paradise with the crab?

But that's a stretch

Shells do appear on islands though

And paradise is an island

Idk

But the part about Elizabeth going through limbo makes sense

Considering David's state as Mr. Rabbit and him trying to be reborn in every possible way

[carmine elk]

I just think if one sibling is going to be through all ALL of them should

[delicate atlas]

Elizabeth->Ms. Pheasant->the lady of the lake/in blue/the singer->corrupted soul

[carmine elk]

Yes

[delicate atlas]

The dad, uncle, and grandma had it easy though 🗿

[carmine elk]

Hope they like doing nothing in that forest??? Thing??

[delicate atlas]

imo mr. Owl enjoys using their souls as his minions lmao

Doesn't get more humiliating than that

Like Ms. Pigeon in Harvey's box

Or Elizabeth in theater

Or David in paradox and birthday

[carmine elk]

Tbhhh can’t even be that mad 🙄

Idk it just makes sense for her to be the singer cause most of the family has some other counterpart minus hotel and I think Elizabeth deserves to preform

[delicate atlas]

True

Also, her being addicted to vanity in hotel (probably because she can see again) and later on becoming a singer/performer doesn’t seem far fetched to me

[carmine elk]

Good for her… good for her

[floral mauve]

That’s one possibility

[azure bay]

I see a huge problem with the songstress. She shares the same timeline with Pheasant's corrupted soul. I'm still almost sure the songstress is Pheasant/Elizabeth indeed but this implies some kind of time travel. And this time travel could've take place in 2 ways.

1. It's Pheasant's next reincarnation or
2. It's Pheasant's human "mask". As you think about it, the only asura character resembling his past life-self is Crow, unlike every single Eilander including Mr. Owl. Pheasant simply doesn't have to look like Elizabeth while hiding among humans

The 3rd option, the most realistic one and the most counter-intuitive storytelling-wise is the songstress pretending to be Pheasant too well

It's not only dress and a hat. It's also a job and even the music theme

that's what I mean by "too well"

[hollow igloo]

Adding a 4th option: the songstress is not pretending to be Pheasant, but both are playing the same character. Both of them are actresses and both of them play “the lady in blue” or “the lady of the lake”. So maybe Pheasant’s dress is just part of her costume, an her background song is the song of the play. As for who this lady in blue is, we know for sure that Caroline is a lady, and also Laura. So maybe the “lady of the lake” is just one of the roles of the RL universe, like “the ruler of the lake” (Owl and Dale). Both pheasant and the songstress, who according to this idea are not related, represent this role in their play.

[floral mauve]

I personally see songstress as a regular songstress

Remember twd

She becomes part of the puzzle in CE Theatre involves the story of Elizabeth

Which connects to the church pheasant theory

[azure bay]

The problem with this theory is her past life substance. We can't attribute the hat to anyone but Pheasant and definitely not to Caroline or Laura

then in Case 23 we get access both to the fetus and the heart by finding a key in Pheasant's skull

[hollow igloo]

Never thought about that skull as a pheasant’s, i should compare the sprites

[hollow igloo]

About this, i separate the real songstress from that appearing in theatre, giving that theatre is a very altered memory. So in that context, the songstress could very well represent Elizabeth, if she is indeed a lady, or another lady or whoever she is. Plus, remember that the hat is not part of Pheasant’s outfit, but is 100% sure part of the costume.

[azure bay]

Yes, it's part of the costume, but it's also someone's past life substance. And the only character that has something to do with that hat is Pheasant.

I wouldn't even talk about Elizabeth here. We know nothing about her having anything to do with the title or the hat. Combining them together is even less likely to be the case.

[floral mauve]

I see the CE theatre is Owl fabricated so she resembles Pheasant but I am not sure why he does that

In real theatre, probably its just songtress singing opera

[azure bay]

Please, let's keep Elizabeth for Paradise

She resembles Pheasant

[floral mauve]

ah yes

[upper drift]

I've got a questiob

Question

Related to a theory

[azure bay]

She resembles her even from Bob's perspective. And real or not, why would the devs mislead us here? Plus, you are not reusing a song called "Pheasant's Theme" unless you are trying to say something.

[floral mauve]

yea

[upper drift]

"Your mind is reaching a higher state of consciousness... blah blah"

He said it shows what you (dale) might become in the future

See the background?

It says Narak (hell)

So what does that imply

[azure bay]

it says Deva

[floral mauve]

samsara

[upper drift]

It says narak in the background this time, for me

Idk what it shows normally

Narak is hell

In devnagri

(Hindi)

And it just says Narak on all the spokes of the mill

[hollow igloo]

It probably depends on how you position you put the mill’s wheel in the previous enigma

[upper drift]

Hmm..

[floral mauve]

maybe devs have a sub plot line designed for pheasant

[upper drift]

Yeah you're not wrong

[hollow igloo]

Maybe it’s not always the same?

[upper drift]

So it isn't any foreshadowing I suppose

[floral mauve]

tbh, all 6 stages are shown

so there is no foreshadowing

[upper drift]

Hmm

[floral mauve]

but yes, there is foreshadowing

[upper drift]

Yeah well I can't remember since it's been 2 years lmao

[floral mauve]

about him reaching a higher state of consciousness

[upper drift]

I need to play

Through all of them

Agaib

Again

[upper drift]

Right yeah

[azure bay]

There is a kind of foreshadowing but it's about Dale becoming a deva. We see his reflection in the respective frame, and Owl plays Dale in the deva play

[upper drift]

So, just to confirm. We still don't know the larger plot at play here right?

[hollow igloo]

Anyway, look at the Hindi writing on the pictures on the wall (the ones that get enlightened by stage lights). All the stages of Samsara are shown. One of the pictures is just a black mirror with a slight reflection of Dale. On that, deva is written

[upper drift]

Owl's plot

[upper drift]

Sheesh, didn't notice that

Oh right

Yeah

[floral mauve]

emmm. idk what you mean but we kinda know what Owl wants Dale to do

[upper drift]

No but we don't know what Owl intends to do right

[floral mauve]

if u played paradox

[upper drift]

I haven't, but I've read the story

[floral mauve]

Owl´s own goal isnt quite clear but what he wants Dale to do is quite clear

[upper drift]

Yeah, Owl's complete goal isn't clear. So we're still at that point right? (I've been inactive here for more than a year, so just asking)

[floral mauve]

I think so

they havent released much insight for the past year

[upper drift]

Yep

[azure bay]

I've just tested and I think it's a bug

normally, the mill set piece is already away when you talk to Owl again

the mill wings are technically the same sprite each in its own state

but when you focus on Owl, Flash doesn't show them but the default one on each instead

if you defocus, it's normal again

another possible explanation is that the lake is hell

the forest on its bottom is and it's canon

[upper drift]

Ahh okay

[carmine elk]

Still gonna connect her to the singer srry not srry

[azure bay]

Pheasant?

[charred forum]

hi

[floral mauve]

so what do you think

do you think its valid

that paradise island is floating

[charred forum]

hrm

not sure tbh i feel lik i would need to replay it a few more times for now

[covert wyvern]

Even if there's the lack of an island (which I think there isn't) it would still be connected by elevator shaft to the white cube at the bottom of the lake

Ergo, not floating.

[azure bay]

Personally, I'd rather believe that the lake surface is a kind of portal

[carmine elk]

I think it isn’t floating BUT IT WOILD BE REALLY NEAT

[charred forum]

yea

[floral mauve]

I think maybe it has something to do with how they show us

from what they show to us in paradise, the giant white cube is clearly not situated vertically below the island

but in hotel somehow

idk

maybe elevator works in a futuristic way

[azure bay]

debatable

[carmine elk]

Tbh the island floating idea is actually really cool I might just go with it 💪

[azure bay]

that doesn't make sense

[carmine elk]

I don’t care, it’s fun to think of it as that

[covert wyvern]

It doesn't have too lmao

[carmine elk]

Yea

It’s harmless fun

[floral mauve]

how so, its never that realistic anyway

[covert wyvern]

But I'll also have to concede that discussing it in theories when you're headcanon is it floating wouldn't make much sense

[floral mauve]

I checked paradise walkthrough

cause I dont trust myself

after Jakob goes down the well, and solved the chamber, when he returns to the surface using the rope he somehow ends up at the bottom of the lake

and saw the giant cube

and when he approaches to the light, he reached the surface and already out of the island

I never really understand what made him out that far

secret sewage system within paradise island

[azure bay]

Common sense is the only reference we have unless specifically told otherwise. This is a huge rock that has to sink.

We didn't clearly see what's below. Could be a complex cave system, could be another world, could be just void. And the weirdest options are not preferable a priory.

[floral mauve]

you can only explain this using portal

[carmine elk]

I always seen the under being the monochrome forest tbh

Just a void

[azure bay]

it could also be a weirdly shaped rock

[floral mauve]

or somehow a cylinder shaped well slides into the lake

[floral mauve]

no I mean, how the hell he ended up under the lake

[azure bay]

because human eyes never clearly see under water

[floral mauve]

isnt he suppose to reach the surface from where he entered?

he used the same path

all he has done was to retrieve the masks and memories

[azure bay]

there's clearly a cave system of some sort

[carmine elk]

Yea I agree with that

[floral mauve]

but if u watch it, its seems to be the same exist and entrance

they didnt even make a new exit chamber

[azure bay]

I don't get why is seems to you so

[floral mauve]

I would agree if there is a new hole that leads to outside

[azure bay]

there has to be, the well water comes from the lake

[floral mauve]

where he got down

where he exit

its the same route

but then he teleported at the bottom of the lake

[azure bay]

dude you seem confused

[carmine elk]

It’s like a Pierre Dog tunnel teehee haha

Joking

[floral mauve]

I dont know

looks quite strange

[azure bay]

listen

please

[floral mauve]

or the well somehow has an external exit

oh wait

I see

he clicked the water instead

so yea, well has a direct path to the bottom of the lake

then I have no problem, but back to point, this shows that the cube does not seem to be situated below the island

otherwise he cant reach the surface or with suficient light but I cant be sure cause its literally rusty lake

he was swimming in rusty lake

[azure bay]

This sequence tells nothing about cube's location

[floral mauve]

I dont need to know the exact location, its just need to prove cube isnt vertically situated below the island and so we can conclude the island is floating and can be moved

[azure bay]

all the stuff around Dale implies the cube being directly under hotel's elevator shaft

[carmine elk]

It was floating in paradise then got stabilized in hotel

Boom

[floral mauve]

so that made my point kinda valid, before it isnt but now yes

[carmine elk]

Problem solved

[azure bay]

not necessary

[floral mauve]

you just said it yourself

[azure bay]

I'm telling ya, there could be a weirdly shaped rock formation

[floral mauve]

what does that mean

[azure bay]

I need to figure out an analogy good enough

[carmine elk]

Oh I think it’s a weird rock formation but I think it isn’t like on the ground, I’ve also seen the trees in the monochrome forest holding it down

Always***

[azure bay]

imagine an apple tree

you can stay under a fruit but you can't say it's floating in the air

it has a branch

supported by the tree

[floral mauve]

....

still dont get it

[azure bay]

you are the cube, the hotel is the fruit, the branch and the tree are the aforementioned rock formation

[floral mauve]

the only thing we need to prove is, either cube is vertically at the bottom of the lake or no, or you are trying to say within 100 years, a new giant white cube formed below the lake

or slightly more than 100 years

maybe 150

[azure bay]

it clearly is, but I've got an impression we're discussing whether the island is floating or not

and the cube being right below is not a guarantee of the island floating

[floral mauve]

you will prove it using the white cube

if the island is able to move above the white cube

then it should be floating

[azure bay]

Paradise is not a reference here

[floral mauve]

I dont know, if they are at the bottom of the island, then there would be no light

apparently there is, and Jakob can see, though u can say its rusty lake

so idk

[azure bay]

you are thinking of minecraft shadows rn

strictly vertical

[floral mauve]

duh

[azure bay]

while in the reality the light source has always an angle

[floral mauve]

the thing is, if the white cube is vertically below the island, and u can see water above the white cube, that also makes the island floating

[azure bay]

//_-

ok, I'll draw you

[floral mauve]

u see the surrounding of the giant white cube and u see no rock figures

its just water forrest and more cubes

[azure bay]

it's muddy, foggy and you can't see beyond your own nose

[floral mauve]

then it should be surrounded by some sort of rock rather than forrest and water

[floral mauve]

idk, u still see light

looks quite nice ngl

[hollow igloo]

We are talking the bottom of the lake. Literally another dimension with trees growing and breathable air

[carmine elk]

EXACTLY

Anything is possible

[azure bay]

I really doubt the devs would calculate the level of light

[floral mauve]

somehow Jakob cant breath in human form in the lake

[azure bay]

debatable

[floral mauve]

aldous possibly can in crow form

[carmine elk]

I thought that was cause of the suit being broke

[floral mauve]

why he needs a suit if he can breath underwater

old ppl

[azure bay]

ah, I seem to get ya. Damn, stop mixing names, please

Jacob was in Paradise, Owl was in The Cave

[floral mauve]

ok

owl

same soul

different lives

[carmine elk]

Well

[azure bay]

and different abilities

[floral mauve]

I said human form

[azure bay]

still, it's misleading

please, considering the timespan, it's better to distinguish

[carmine elk]

Yea

[stone talon]

To be honest, I think samsara room is supposed to take place of rose, and the baby at the end is laura-- im not good at theories though so

[floral mauve]

what does take place of rose mean

u mean during the time rose was in the clock?

[stone talon]

Yea, that's kinda what I'm thinking

When she was in the clock, that was a vision she kinda went through

[stone talon]

Also, go study :))

[floral mauve]

ok

[stone talon]

Any theories on Arles? I've always questioned why they put this level in the game. It has none of the characters or references, its a real life man.

[azure bay]

IMO it's some IRL person's perspective on the universe

seemingly the same story of reliving past live memories in order to find some kind of liberation

related mini-theories:

1. Laura could die for the same reason e.g. seeing a boogeyman in the mirror

2. in RL universe van Gogh attended RLMH&F instead of Saint Paul Asylum because his infamous painting drawn there is altered to feature Rusty Lake

[carmine elk]

I always seen it as an IRL example on how corrupted souls can happen / what kind of mental state leads to corrupting lmao

[azure bay]

it's sure a great reference for CS theorizing

[stone talon]

Ooo, I think I get it now

That's really similar to white door

I like that theory

[azure bay]

More like Seasons, I'd say

[delicate atlas]

I remember reading somewhere that they created it to celebrate Van Gogh's birthday since he's dutch and the developers are dutch as well

To honor him

Ofcourse that could be one reason behind it

Out of several

[azure bay]

could you please find that?

[delicate atlas]

Sure

I specifically remember Damy saying it on the server but I could be wrong

https://m.facebook.com/rustylakecom/photos/a.397285717123150/1349011048617274/?type=3&_se_imp=0e9J1nt2Tknqw3FNL

I found this on the official Facebook

[floral mauve]

I think it’s high likely the reason

[delicate atlas]

The game description says it's part of the universe story

[floral mauve]

It can be both

[delicate atlas]

So I guess the birthday part was an afterthought

[stone talon]

Case 23, 2/4.. is that Bob that was arrested? He could be a suspect, since Laura had just left him

[floral mauve]

yea

he was there

[stone talon]

That is so interesting to me.

[azure bay]

it wasn't "just", it was 3 years before

[stone talon]

Good point

I don't keep track of the years very well lol.

[floral mauve]

how many games have u played

among RL

[stone talon]

All of them, besides the past within ofc

I'm just replaying them in order

[floral mauve]

easter eggs?

[stone talon]

Tryna find things

Yea

[floral mauve]

twd easter eggs are quite interesting

u should try to get most of them

[stone talon]

Yeah, im excited to replay that

Bet

[past grail]

Not me reading this as the walking dead and not the white door lol

[carmine elk]

TWDG is better

[long smelt]

Both William and Laura died becuase of the elexir. Was Laura always going to be the one that died becuase William died of the elexir?

[delicate atlas]

I don't think so

But I think Mr. Owl and Crow wanted William to die after taking the elixir so they can extract it from him later when he's reborn

It feels like they were behind roots

To me at least

Idk what their intentions are though

[floral mauve]

did Laura die because of the elixir?

[long smelt]

Yes, she was bound to the elixir somehow. That's why Dale is becoming enlighted.

[floral mauve]

?

oh

idk about this because one is cause one is consequence

[ripe flame]

I don't think so
Maybe I know how...

[floral mauve]

Dale is the one that makes decision after Laura died

he was choosing between getting enlightened or reviving Laura

which is slightly different from the traditional elixir tradeoff

[ripe flame]

She won a lottery -> went to Rusty Lake house on Lake -> saw so much about died body, about her death -> comeback to home -> went to the hospital -> Mr owl gave her special pills -> she was drinking them -> but she didn't stand it -> and killed herself

[covert wyvern]

do you reckon, though, that if she ever was admitted to a hospital of sorts we'd see it in game.

that seems like a major detail to just omit.

[ripe flame]

Special pills, that makes hallucinations

[floral mauve]

idk sounds not evident

[ripe flame]

Than how she got a paper with doctors signature ?

[covert wyvern]

she probably went to see a doctor to get a prozac prescription sure

[floral mauve]

I dont see Owl appear in the prescription

[covert wyvern]

but there's a difference between getting some meds for your depression and being admitted to a hospital for it.

[ripe flame]

Hm
But doctor said to drink prozac. Doctor could be a Mr owl, sa same as with Bob

[floral mauve]

could

if she went there she would have the white door stuff with her

[ripe flame]

I said that, didn't i?

[covert wyvern]

no you specifically mentioned "a hospital"

but that could just be a language barrier.

[ripe flame]

Who said it must be in The White door?

[covert wyvern]

well if Mr. Owls behind this, the white door seems like the safe bet

[floral mauve]

cause u said about Owl

bruh

[ripe flame]

Oh well
I don't know so good English, I'm trying, sry

[covert wyvern]

considering the fact that that's his ye

nah its quite alright

[floral mauve]

its fine

[ripe flame]

Who said he has only one The White door?

[covert wyvern]

I suppose thats fair.

[floral mauve]

we can never be sure the assets of Owl Corp

[floral mauve]

we use existing info and build on it, but sure

[ripe flame]

Rusty Lake story isn't ended, they can add something more

[floral mauve]

u see, u are creating stuff which is similar to writing a fan fic

I also created some funny Rusty lake stuff

[covert wyvern]

I mean thats basically theorising to some extent anyway

[floral mauve]

like flying fish boss

indeed

[covert wyvern]

but i would be hesitant to just invent a collection of companies mr owl could feasibly own, too

[ripe flame]

Hmm
About doctor - it isn't fanfic, cuз he was really in. Well, there was a paper