🤔｜theories

[charred forum]

ok so

heres what i think

shrimp

its pretty meaningless and is a surreal creature, even in rl

[azure bay]

shrimps have their piece of symbolism outside RL, y'know

and putting someone inside a shrimp would likely pass that symbolism to them

[charred forum]

o

ok nvm then

[proud cape]

Good evening! I'm playing The Lying Game and I'm totally stucked...I think Albert is the Devil and Ida is the High Priestess, but I'm not sure...nothing happen...help!!

#rusty-lake-hotel-roots-paradise-help I'm stucked in The Lying Game in Roots...help!

[floral mauve]

There is no need to shout at every channel

[meager dune]

BTW what's written above is 'sansaar" in Sanskrit (or Devanagari script)

[delicate atlas]

Is that another word for the Samsara cycle?

[azure bay]

exactly

I'd say it's just a different way to pronounce it

a more true way, I guess

[delicate atlas]

I see

[meager dune]

It's just a different spelling for the same word

[rare drum]

so if james is william's nephew, does that mean that either he's mr crow's son or there is a third sibling we haven't met?

[floral mauve]

Maybe

Probably ain’t that much important

[odd wagon]

Perhaps you've got a point there

[azure bay]

he mentioned all the possible options. He definitely has a point in one of them

[rich granite]

I've played each game like 5 times each but I've can't recall anything about a Samsara cycle but it has been about a year since I played them

[azure bay]

It wasn't on surface

you have to google for few things to understand it

[rich granite]

What do I have to google?

[azure bay]

My request was "6 stages of the wheel"

[rich granite]

Ohhhhhh

I know what that is

I have a huge fascination with religions and cultures other than my own

[azure bay]

Mr. Owl mentioned them directly in Theatre which is secretly all about samsara

[rich granite]

Oh this makes a bunch of puzzle pieces Fall into place

Why did my phone capitalize fall

[azure bay]

eh?

[rich granite]

This franchise has a lot of religous themes

I wonder if that's cause it's stuff that a lot of people know about or if there's some deeper meaning to it

[azure bay]

I'd say it's inspiration

[rich granite]

OH THE REALM OF ANIMALS EXPLAINS HOTELS ANIMAL PEOPLE

[azure bay]

no, they are asuras

[rich granite]

Ohhhhhhh

Yeah that makes more sense

I specialize in greek mythology so I could tell you all about what it means for each of the different family members being which zodiac sign in Paradise but I'm not very well versed in indic religions

[azure bay]

I think almost no one is

mostly wikipedia

and sometimes texts of different schools contradicting one another

[rich granite]

Yeah that's how I feel when people say that Hercules is a son of Zeus

That's his name in Roman mythology thus Hercules is a son of Jupiter. Heracles is a son of Zeus. Heracles meaning getting power from hera

[azure bay]

the contradictions I'm talking about are not limited to languages

[rich granite]

Yeah. I was just giving an example

More like how nobody knows if Eros is the brother or son of Aphrodite

[azure bay]

As far as I'm concerned all the gods are related in one way or another

and a ton of incest they had

[rich granite]

Yep

[floral mauve]

I thought aphrodite is a penis

[rich granite]

She sure acts like one sometimes

[floral mauve]

bruhhh

[azure bay]

guys, it's getting away from the intended topic

[floral mauve]

back to topic what are you guys trying to say

I know

[azure bay]

Idk, I'm just telling what I know

[floral mauve]

just saying Rusty Lake managed to fuse many religions

[rich granite]

If all of the religous parallels were greek I'd be set

[floral mauve]

and did a good job at it

[rich granite]

Yeah

[floral mauve]

From 10 plagues to buddhism to some extent taoism

maybe also involved catholics

[covert wyvern]

makethat a definitely when you look at the plagues

[floral mauve]

10 plagues is from muslim if I am not mistake

[rich granite]

No

[azure bay]

nooooooooo

[floral mauve]

I am proabably wrong

[covert wyvern]

eh could be to be honest

[rich granite]

12 plauges of Isreal

[floral mauve]

gonna look up

ah Isreal

yes

the place all three religions coexist

[covert wyvern]

the thing with the big three monotheistic religions is that they all build on one another anyway

[floral mauve]

yep

[rich granite]

It's in exodus meaning that it's in all abrahamic faiths if I'm not mistaken

[floral mauve]

thats where the confusion begins

[covert wyvern]

right yes this would check out

[rich granite]

That would be in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam

[floral mauve]

Judaism

yes

I looked up

Oh hold up

I am no expert

[azure bay]

as far as I'm concerned it didn't pass to Islam. At least my Muslim friend didn't recognize it

[rich granite]

Let me check

[floral mauve]

since Moses is also in the story

I am not sure

[covert wyvern]

either way, I think we can settle on "The plagues are religious symbolism"

[floral mauve]

maybe all three of the religions

[floral mauve]

yes

[rich granite]

Yep it's in islam

The story of moses

[floral mauve]

cool

either way Rusty Lake managed to include all of them with minimum contradiction

I respect the plot

[azure bay]

contradiction to what?

[floral mauve]

you know sometimes religions contradict each other due to ideologies

[covert wyvern]

I think it helps when your game doesnt sell ideology I suppose

[floral mauve]

so Rusty Lake made up a plot with not much conflict of the ideology since the logics behind it all connect

[rich granite]

If u had no clue about these things the story would seem just as strange if not make more sense

[floral mauve]

blood murder ppl die brrrr

[rich granite]

Murder pog

I go to find the answer to one question and suddenly have 5 wiki tabs open

[azure bay]

I think it's more like picking very specific beats and pieces that don't reflect that ideology

[floral mauve]

yep

[azure bay]

also modifying them

[floral mauve]

I believe the core ideology in RL universe is still samsara

so do make sure u know that

[covert wyvern]

im inclined to agree with this yes

[rich granite]

Yeah for example the zodiac thing from Paradise. The only parallel is that David is Pisces which is the youngest sign while he is the youngest brother

[floral mauve]

it enlightens

[azure bay]

the last part could be coincidence

[floral mauve]

I didnt manage to pass the zodiac part of paradise

[rich granite]

Brb gotta go spend the rest of the day learning about another faith again (I do this a lot)

[floral mauve]

me dunno signs

[rich granite]

I could help u

[floral mauve]

thats nice of u

[rich granite]

Ok I googled Samsara and found a car company thing and the logo has the Aries symbol

Talk about coincidence

[floral mauve]

samsara is a cool word

[rich granite]

So how do the 3 main families overlap

Are they each reborn as eachother

Or is there no connection

[azure bay]

there are theories

[rich granite]

I'm talking the Vanderbooms the Vandermeers and the Eilanders

What are some of the main theories?

[floral mauve]

so for vandermeers there are less links

but there are some links between vanderboom and Eilanders since they are near

geographically

[rich granite]

And what is up Dale and his elivator

[azure bay]

but 2 independent assumptions

[floral mauve]

but overall I would say there are less direct links among three families

there are theories

nowhere would probably type down everything if u ask him

[rich granite]

Looking at the family trees of both of them I see some parallels

[azure bay]

finish with families and I'll go on with the elevator

[rich granite]

If u cut the entire first Vanderboom generation as well as the whole flower thing, Leonard, rose, and Laura, they share a shape

A couple with 3 children

That wasn't a very coherent thought

Everytime I hear Eilander I think of Oleander and get that song by mother mother stuck in my head. Oleander does have a connection to the flower thing since it is a very, very, VERY deadly flower. I don't think this is intentional since my mind like to make nonsensical connections a lot

[azure bay]

I personally wouldn't make a big deal of it

[covert wyvern]

Id like to point out that "Eilander" translates to "islander" in Dutch and is probably just a very simple name the devs came up with!

[rich granite]

I knkw

[covert wyvern]

but I like your Oleander train of thought nonetheless

[rich granite]

That's why I'm saying it's useless

[rich granite]

Train of thought being another song by mother mother

[azure bay]

since Stray is out, I have to share family connections theories myself.
What do you want to know 1st? The obvious, the genius or the most controversial one?

[covert wyvern]

I do love a bit of controversy

[rich granite]

Obious first I guess

Save the best for last

[azure bay]

agree. So...

Mr. Crow is Dale's grandpa. Because they look almost identically...

[rich granite]

They do also seem to have the same knowledgeable and calm violent vibe

[azure bay]

I disagree

grandpa is more chaotic

somewhat childish

[floral mauve]

I am not out qwq I am just not a good talker and ppl hate me

[azure bay]

I'm not a big fan of this theory tho

of this kind of theories in general

[covert wyvern]

O man for a minute I thought you were coming up with a theory based on the new cat game Stray

I need sleep

LMAO

[floral mauve]

BRUH

I swear the game Stray copied my name

[covert wyvern]

It did too

anywya uh carry on

[azure bay]

the world feels too small that way. And I personally feel more related to a complete stranger to the lake world as I am myself

[rich granite]

Why is my dyslexia being a jersey today

HA

JERK AUTOCORRECTED TO JERSEY

Why did it do that

[azure bay]

besides, Crow could be just pretending to be Dale's grandpa just for the memory sake

now the controversial one. It may be proved or disproved in The Past Within.

Dale has all chances to be Albert's reincarnation

[rich granite]

Let me process that quick. My brain has a thing A fitting pieces together

Why did the a capitalize

[azure bay]

1. Albert died before Dale was born
2. They share deer vibes
3. There was a Rorschach picture of a moth on a screenshot

the controversy of this statement has 2 sources

[rich granite]

Moths appear in a lot of games though

Like as a symbol for warped versions of what we perceive as reality

[azure bay]

I separate regular moths and black ones

[rich granite]

Oh

I thought u were talking about the black ones

[azure bay]

Dale is reaching to enlightenment like a moth to a light. Thus the wallpaper in his mind palace

and one of his Rorschach pictures was a moth

[rich granite]

Bad rorschach then

It's not supposed to be anything

That's why it's a psychological test

[azure bay]

I'd say it's gameplay

[rich granite]

Yeah I know

[azure bay]

but what's controversial about that?

[rich granite]

Whats the deal with Harvey changing genders every 5 seconds too

There's a thing with both of them and beards

I cant for the life kf me remember if Albert gets shaved tho

[azure bay]

1. as I said before, I'd prefer Dale being a completely random person
2. many hate Albert and don't want him having a happy end of Dale

[rich granite]

Sounds so unintentionally weird

Albert do have Joseph vibes thi

Thrown down a well by his family

[azure bay]

I think you are confusing names

Albert is a voodoo sorcerer

[rich granite]

No

[azure bay]

he was the one to throw family down a well

[rich granite]

The guy from the bible who was thrown down a well by his 12 brothers and then sold into slavery

The one with the coat of many colors

I know

[azure bay]

ok

I get you now

now the genius?

[rich granite]

Sure

[azure bay]

the community consensus is, Eilanders were reborn as the guests, do you agree?

[rich granite]

Yeah I thought that was obious

[azure bay]

some don't but I digress

[rich granite]

The animal masks are a dead give away

I spent an hour once researching the Chinese zodiac in connection to the guests just to realize that pheasant isn't a sign in the Chinese zodiac

[azure bay]

then The Lady of The Lake songstress shares a ton of vibes with Ms. Pheasant

[rich granite]

And with that one lady

[azure bay]

?

[rich granite]

One sec

Caroline

[azure bay]

not really

[rich granite]

The wiki has a thing about in the chapel she's in a painting called lady of the lake

[azure bay]

yes, but her connection to the songstress is just a title

which could be just a stage name or the opera she's performing

not the actual title

[rich granite]

Yeah

Maybe

My brain likes to get hyperfixated on details tho

Comes with adhd and is worsened by my ts

Ts is Tourette's Syndrome

[azure bay]

while Pheasant shares a dress, a hat, a job and a music theme with her, speaking of details

[rich granite]

Caroline is the person who made the elixir tho

But she did ascent with owl tho so

[azure bay]

she was rather sacrificed since Owl identifies himself exclusively as Jacob and has no idea how to make the elixir

[rich granite]

That's what I meant

[azure bay]

ok

the songstress

and the substance of her past life we need to balance in the puzzle

I can tell nothing on the shell under this context but...

The hat is definitely Pheasant

[rich granite]

Is "there will be blood" a reference to anything outside of rl

[rich granite]

Well Shells are comprised of ancient dead animals so

[azure bay]

and the heart with the fetus were both seen before in another game...

[rich granite]

Which game?

[azure bay]

I'll get to that in a second but for now let's admit that they are also Pheasant's past life substance

[rich granite]

Just her past past life

[azure bay]

which could be Elisabeth's life specifically

[rich granite]

Why did I always thing Elizabeth was the blond one

That's not even the right family

I guess both of their names start with e and I have trouble with names

[azure bay]

In the chapel in Case 23 we get a key from Pheasant's skull which opens a drawer with a fetus in a jar

we pour ink into that jar, the fetus is getting hidden behind it but when the ink dissolves we get the heart instead

now let's add some interpretations

a fetus could represent a child

[rich granite]

I think that probably obvious

[azure bay]

a child from Pheasant's past life

the ink looked a lot like corruption

and who could be a child that was corrupted and left a heart behind?

[rich granite]

I feel like I could be either a miscarriage, a stillborn or a terminated pregnancy she feels guilty about maybe

[azure bay]

that's not the direction I'm taking

[rich granite]

Yeah that's just what my interpretation was

Continue

[azure bay]

there's the only candidate fitting the description

corrupted person leaving a heart behind

can you guess who's that?

[rich granite]

Um...

Names are my weakness one sec

Idk

Who

[azure bay]

William Vanderboom

the alchemist uncle

[rich granite]

He becomes crow tho

[azure bay]

it was his brother Aldous

[rich granite]

Sounds like a name from Harry potter

[azure bay]

don't blame ya

So William is Elizabeth's child

a final touch to make all of that work is assuming that Eilanders were not reborn right away

since William's brother was born in 1799

2 years after the Paradise events

[rich granite]

Actually

I believe

He becomes laura

Yeah

[azure bay]

yeah, William being reborn as Laura isn't even a theory

[rich granite]

He becomes reincarnated as laura

How is he also Elizabeth's child

[azure bay]

I repeat

Elisabeth is Pheasant's past life

[rich granite]

Then

What

I'm confused

[azure bay]

Pheasant's past life substance is a corrupted child that left a heart behind

William is the only candidate that also fits the dates

William is a corrupted child from Pheasant's past life that leaves a heart behind

literally

[rich granite]

So how is he also laura

And pheasants child

[azure bay]

he is not Pheasant's child

he's a child of Pheasant's past life which is Elizabeth

[rich granite]

I need a visual aid for this I'm just not getting it

Elizabeth doesn't have a kid

[azure bay]

they were born after Paradise

Aldous was born in 1799

Paradise takes place in 1796-1797

[rich granite]

I know thay

But then aldous AND William are her children

[azure bay]

yeah

[rich granite]

Meaning that the Eilanders and Vanderbooms are connected

SHE COULDVE MARRIED A MAN WITH THE LAST NAME OF VANDERBOOM

[azure bay]

you wanted a family connection theory

I gave you 3

[rich granite]

IT COULD HAVE BEEN THAT THERE EAS A THIRD SINCE KIDS IN THIS SERIES TEND TO BE ALONE OR IN SETS OF 3

[azure bay]

which could be James' father

[rich granite]

Wait no

If she lost him

WIAT

OHHHHHHHHHH

IT JSUT CLICKED

She didn't nessicarily lose them as a baby

[azure bay]

or it was Aldous. Both versions have their problems, both don't really affect the story

ok, just bare in mind that these theories aren't confirmed yet

[rich granite]

I'm under the impression that William and Aldous were the 2 drinking the thing

[azure bay]

have you played the secret Roots level?

[rich granite]

Yes

Gtg

[azure bay]

Then I don't get why it's just an impression if you straight saw them doing that

[rare drum]

damn
wait how old is elizabeth in roots

[ebon aspen]

elizabeth is dead by the time roots occurs

[rare drum]

oh sorry

i meant
paradise

[ebon aspen]

shes in her early 20s, prolly still on the teens

shes younger than jakob and he was 19/20 y/o by that time

[rare drum]

oh ok cool

but huh
i always thought they were older for some reason

[vital bobcat]

RIGHT??? they looked so much older than Jakob

[odd wagon]

David is the youngest yet he looks like a middle aged man

[rare drum]

yeahh

oh my god
this whole time I thought he had some stubble
it's just a shadow

[rich granite]

I mean u never know with these games

[rich granite]

THATS A SHADOW

[azure bay]

sometimes you do know.

We had a level, we had a mural. Nothing else is needed

[rich granite]

Your memory to remember seeing that event is also needed

[floral mauve]

wha

[rich granite]

Idk

[floral mauve]

did I miss a joke

[rich granite]

I forgot a key moment of the series because sleep-deprived

[rich granite]

I found a thing of playing the games in the order of years that they are in (except Birthday but that's part of the elevator thing) so for this playthrough of the series I'll do
Paradise
Arles
Hotel
Roots
Samsara
Lake
Harvey's
Seasons
23
Mill
White Door
Birthday
Theatre
Cave
Paradox
(I found this on reddit) I haven't played them in like 6 months so I'm a bit Rusty (hehe) on the story and thus am wanting to say what I think is going on as I play them so that I can have someone to tell me if I'm way off base or if I'm right or if I'm missing something. Idk if this is the right channel to do it in so if it isn't please tell me so I can move channels

[floral mauve]

well not necessarily in the order of years

some of them overlaps

but its nice

[azure bay]

This story is so vague that even the most basic interpretation of it is already a theory

[rich granite]

Ok

[rich granite]

Yeah the reason they put it there is because at the beginning Dale is in an elevator in 72

Let me find the username of the op

[azure bay]

I think he means that Arles and Hotel take place in between Roots events

[floral mauve]

maybe its time to show the lad your map

again

when is your 2.0 patch gonna release

[azure bay]

why do you call it 2.0?

[rich granite]

u/Bellikron

[floral mauve]

?!

[rich granite]

Made rhe reddit post I got this order from

[floral mauve]

ah I see a cultured guy

[floral mauve]

no I mean ur next version of map

[rich granite]

https://www.reddit.com/r/rustylake/comments/gmynae/updated_beginners_guide_to_rusty_lake_order_to/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[azure bay]

why do you call it 2.0?

[floral mauve]

are you angry at me qwq

[azure bay]

ehm... no?

[floral mauve]

because I assume the current one is 1.0

so the next advanced map is 2.0

[rich granite]

Ok starting with Paradise

[rich granite]

Ok so Player character who the wiki said is Jakob has a dead mom (Beetlejuice intensifies) and so he returns home

In 1796

To Paradise island

I organized info from the wiki on my notes app yesterday

[azure bay]

now you seem as crazy as I am

[floral mauve]

bruh

[rich granite]

(Hums game theory theme)

[rich granite]

You wish you were as crazy as I am

[azure bay]

how crazy is it?

[rich granite]

I've been diagnosed with adhd, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, ocd, Tourette's Syndrome, dyslexia, depression, and am currently being assessed for ASD (autism spectrum disorder)

[floral mauve]

bruh

we shouldnt get further

[rich granite]

My emotional support is my cat leo my new puppy mazie and the freaking dream smp

This is not the strangest thing I have I'm my notes app

Once I got really sleep deprived and the next morning found out that I'd been texting my boyfriend about how we need to normalize public screaming and found in my notes app an essay where I cited sources and provided counter arguments better than I ever have for school about how it's possible to be too gay for jury duty

[floral mauve]

mate u probably want to keep it private on those matters

[rich granite]

I got sidetracked and am now adding an achievements guide to my notes app

[floral mauve]

That’s a great way to notice some details that are often missed

Achievement names and infos

[covert wyvern]

Please do keep it to theories in this channel

and ye I would advice against sharing overly personal information in a very public server

[rich granite]

Just got sidetracked for a half hour on random logic puzzles lol

I'm never gonna end up actually replaying the games am i

I got sidetracked all day yesterday on the wiki and now I'm getting sidetracked again

Woat

The achievement for getting all of the ingredients in Hotel and putting in the keys is "secret Rusty Lake specialty"

They've done this before

[azure bay]

they've done what exactly?

[rich granite]

Killed all the animal crossing rejects

[azure bay]

ok, now it's in Hotel but when was it before?

[rich granite]

Idk

[floral mauve]

I am confused

[rich granite]

But in order for it to be a specialty it would have had to be perfected and done multiple times

[floral mauve]

what topic are we on?

[rich granite]

Or am I reading too far into it

The achievement for getting the cigars in hotel

[azure bay]

Cigars are the specialty

[floral mauve]

secret Rusty Lake speciality

thats the name

[azure bay]

in Toad's recipe book

[rich granite]

I got sidetracked again

My friends and I started talking about astrology

I'm never getting this done

Why is the phrase "hatch David" so funny to me

[azure bay]

I'd be careful if I were you. This commentary is quite distant from theorizing

[rich granite]

Finally ready to start replaying and respeculating

I'm starting with Paradise as previously mentioned

Jakob gets a letter from his dad (letter written April 22nd, 1796 (might be worth wile to note that the date is written the way Americans write the date but that might not amount to anything)) that his mom passed away

Do we know how/why she died

[azure bay]

she was burnt on a stake

[rich granite]

Oh

That's fun

Could her death have been the thing that triggered all of these plauges

Ok so her split memories are causing the Lake to "bleed" idk if that's littetal or not but it looks like it

[rich granite]

Why is that lady with red hair (can't remember her name and refuse to google it) blind

She says "fear didn't make me blind" which makes me wonder what did

[delicate atlas]

Elizabeth

She's 16 💀

Definitely not a lady

But yeah I always wondered what made her blind

Maybe she got a head injury

[floral mauve]

well who knows

ppl who live in a less developed places dont marry ppl after 18

[covert wyvern]

But let's not dive deeper into that

[floral mauve]

yea

[delicate atlas]

I meant as lady is used for adult women in general

[floral mauve]

since on the island there is no other ppl other than family

[delicate atlas]

While Elizabeth was a teenager

Fair

[covert wyvern]

That's modspeak for please move on for this topic before it becomes uncomfortable

[floral mauve]

my statement still stands

ok

[covert wyvern]

From this topic**

[floral mauve]

Elizabeth could be a future lady of the lake though

could be

[delicate atlas]

Ah that's true

[floral mauve]

there are theories

[delicate atlas]

Maybe if she didn't turn into a suicidal pheasant

[floral mauve]

that the Eilanders didnt enlighten immediately

it took some time

so at mean time

Eilanders live

[delicate atlas]

That's interesting

[floral mauve]

maybe Elizabeth married someone or had kids

[delicate atlas]

That could explain the years they were born in

[floral mauve]

yea

[delicate atlas]

That could explain the abundance of redheads in rusty lake

[floral mauve]

lmao

[rich granite]

I like how the mod said to move on and you didn't /j

[floral mauve]

we did

[covert wyvern]

They moved on from the age question.

[rich granite]

Ohhhh

[covert wyvern]

I know there's a /j there but I'm still going to explain myself

Bringing it up again though is something I'd advice against doing.

[rich granite]

I thought u didn't like the marriage topic

[covert wyvern]

No I want to avoid lengthy discussions about the concept of adult hood and things like the age of consent

Because that's bound to become political and Thus against server rules.

[rich granite]

Ok yeah I don't like those convos either

[covert wyvern]

Hence why we're moving on now!

[rich granite]

What I'm confuse about is the genetics and science behind the red hair tho since they have some blond children some brutenne and some red haired

[covert wyvern]

Ye I'm not a biologist I couldn't give any sort of explanation there but researching that genetic trait shouldn't be too complicated and might b a fun project

[rich granite]

Do we know what specifically causes people to become Corrupted after death and why some dont

[covert wyvern]

Personally I think it's bad memories mental ailments such as depression

[rich granite]

Maybe it has something to do with self image

Or the classic theory with ghosts abt unfinished buisness

[floral mauve]

also painful death as well

unpleasant death

[rich granite]

And improper disposal of remains

I guess Caroline's coffin was in the lake

[floral mauve]

...

possible

but

[rich granite]

But it implies that she did have a burial

[floral mauve]

ah

nvm

[floral mauve]

is that so

[rich granite]

Her having a coffin

Yeah

[floral mauve]

I thought the family member threw her remainings in the coffin above the lake

its not a traditional burial in the dirt

[rich granite]

Yeah but cremation where the ashes then get scattered doesn't form spirits

And these migjt not be typical ghosts

In fact they probably arent

[floral mauve]

she has bones left as well

[floral mauve]

where did u get this impression from

bodies are probably less important comparing to souls

[rich granite]

The fact that places like Disney World aren't getting constant reports of paranormal activity

Yeah

The whole body disposal thing comes mostly from shows like supernatural where they need a way to get rid of the spirit

[floral mauve]

oh

[rich granite]

Honestly I'm not 100% sold on the existence of ghosts but I'm open to their existence

I'm not sure how much like ghosts the Corrupted Souls are

I feel like it's more like a fran bow situation where the dark beings are actually in the realm rather than caught between our world and the afterlife

[floral mauve]

u could say they are the same thing but its not since death is not the end

its samsara

corrupted soul is a form of soul

human is also a form of soul

[rich granite]

Yeah I guess ur right

The whole Samsara thing is still kinda new to me and I don't 100% understand it yet so I hadn't thought of that

[delicate atlas]

Basically lack of melanin

I think if someone has a low melanin they could give birth to a blond or redhead child regardless of their own haircolor

So that could explain characters in RL who are related but have different hair colors

RL in general has lots of redheads in it

Which maybe has something to do with the developers art style or character design preferences

But kinda makes me wonder if the Netherlands has lots of redhead there?

Or if they have their own stereotypes about the personality of a redhead and try to make some symbolism kind of thing with the hair colors?

[ebon aspen]

Oh i missed the genetics convo
But if the matter is hair colors, dominant and recessive genes can explain it very easily (and yeah, in the end of the day is a melanin thing)
But stereotypes/symbolism is a very valid explanation too, in the end of another day we see cartoon characters with purple hair and we dont question it

[delicate atlas]

LMAO

[rich granite]

Ok so I just finished replaying Paradise and here are my thoughts:
So Jakob was supposed to be sacrificed since he was the first born son but his mom took his place and sent him away. This seems to be given via the scenes you see upon getting the black cubes. Jakob comes back years later and gets sacrificed by his family who later gets reborn as the guests at the hotel (my brain calls them the animal crossing rejects). Now for my interpretation/s:
I think the owl represents sacrifice. Caroline was sacrificed and u give her the owl mask.
On second thought it could just be that birds represent the elixir since the Crow also went through that process. I don't know if this has any baring in the Samsara cycle as I'm not very firmiliar with it tho

[rare drum]

a type of bird was one of the rooms in the samsara room game so it's a part of rusty lake's samsara cycle

whatever it is, birds have some sort of extra importance because of mr owl, mr crow, and harvey

[azure bay]

I wouldn't take the protagonist's forms from Samsara Room too seriously

they were there before Rusty Lake was a thing

[rare drum]

yeah but werent they incorporated

like theres jakob's mom's book with it right?

[azure bay]

it's technically canon but still every element doesn't have to mean anything

especially if unchanged

besides every from belongs to samsara

[rare drum]

yep

alright

[rich granite]

Ok finished Arles and why is Van Gogh involved in this

I've never understood that

[rare drum]

lol yeah
he doesnt have any link to the characters
the only two things that link him to the games are

1. he was mentally disturbed
2. he's dutch (it's a dutch company right?)

[rich granite]

But Arles is in france

[rare drum]

yeah

but he himself

is dutch

[rich granite]

True

Maybe it's to link it to real life

[rare drum]

i think they just thought

[azure bay]

I have a theory how van Gogh could be related to RL

[rare drum]

hmm
that would be cool

[rare drum]

ooh
share

[rich granite]

Or maybe it's the fact that it's their third game in the series (but not in the order I'm playing them since I'm currently playing them based off of the date that the game starts in) and they just did a thing

[azure bay]

since his painting made in St. Remy is altered to feature the lake, he could be cured in MH&F instead

[rich granite]

Mh&f?

[rare drum]

mental health and fishing

[rich granite]

Ahhh

[azure bay]

but yeah

he's mostly detached

[rich granite]

Arles to me is the most confusing game in the series

I'm on to hotel now

[azure bay]

why?

[rich granite]

It's so disjointed from the entire series

Why Van Gough?

Why paul?

[azure bay]

Why not?

[rich granite]

IDK

[rare drum]

paul is a real guy as well right

[rich granite]

Yeah

[rare drum]

so i guess its just

we got van gogh
and hes in france
might as well add his friend from when he was in france

[rich granite]

Also what order are u supposed to do the rooms in hotel again?

[rare drum]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i just got hotel today

about to play it

[rich granite]

It's deer rabbit pigeon Pheasant Boar right?

[rich granite]

Do it its one of my faves

[azure bay]

Paul Gauguin

[rich granite]

Tell me thoughts after each night pls

[rare drum]

i think that's it yeah (i watched someone else play the premium games cause i thought i wouldnt be able to play them...)

i have a general idea of the story
i have almost no memory of the puzzles and some details

[rich granite]

OOOOOOO

I HAVE A THROTU

SINCE OWL IS KINDA CAROLINE

And the guests are her family who sacrificed her

She's then sacrificing them

And what if Harvey (since we play as Harvey if I'm not mistaken) is reborn Jakob

Eh?

[azure bay]

Owl is Jacob hands down

[rare drum]

i thought it's both

i thought they kind of

dragon ball fusion

[azure bay]

except Owl has no idea how to make elixir

[rich granite]

I thought owl was caroline

[rare drum]

welp

[rich granite]

Yeah u don't keep memories from past lives

[rare drum]

ill play paradise later as well

bye guys

[rich granite]

I'm talking in terms of karma, it makes sense for her to sacrifice them as they sacrificed her

[azure bay]

Owl and Crow both keep their past life memories

[rich granite]

What is the relevancy of the frog?

Or the bat?

[azure bay]

They are loyal to Owl

The devs said both used to be humans before working for him

[rich granite]

Ha I just saw that I put young bird in my notes app as bird child

It's also worthwhile to note that this takes place on the same island as pafasode

[azure bay]

Pafasode... I...

Like it!

[rich granite]

Shut up /j

Also when night falls the Lake turns red in hotel

[azure bay]

what's your conclusion?

[rich granite]

History repeats

[azure bay]

but in Paradise it was during a brought daylight

[rich granite]

It goes with the theme of cycles.

No cycle is identical to anothter

[azure bay]

sorry but that sounds more like an excuse to protect any mere coincidence no matter how vague it is

[rich granite]

It's a common theme across literature that the world is full of cycles that repeat with slight variations each time. Think many worlds interpretation

Which is that each action taken created a separate universe or timeline where you chose the actions you didn't in your present timeline

[azure bay]

no matter how common it is it doesn't predict anything and what's more stays on the way of separating real evidence from mistakes

[rich granite]

I'm just throwing stuff at the wall here

I make note of everything and then sort out what is and isn't important as to not miss details

I'd rather have too many details than miss an important one

[azure bay]

then here's another detail

the same water color is used in the main menu designed after the RL logo

[rich granite]

I just think it could be symbolic of these being the same souls that were involved in Paradise where the Lake litterally turned to blood

[azure bay]

I'm not sure if they had Paradise in mind while making Hotel

[analog yacht]

I always just figured it became red cause it's rusty lake and rust is red

[rich granite]

It's litterally the same masks that you give them in paradise

It's on the same island

And both Paradise and Arles have referenced history repeating

[azure bay]

it is yet having Hotel in mind while making Paradise doesn't guarantee the vise versa

[rich granite]

I know

Oh I thought Paradise was made forst

Sorry I misunderstood

[rich granite]

Owl does seem to be keenly aware of how memories work in a way that reminds me of Caroline's soul in Paradise

I'm on to roots now

My personal favorite game in the series

[floral mauve]

Technically he studied a lot

[rich granite]

I mean

[floral mauve]

And he has read most of Caroline’s study

[rich granite]

Caroline was the inventor of the elixir

[floral mauve]

During paradise

[rich granite]

He wasn't around yet during paradise

[floral mauve]

I mean Jakob

[azure bay]

Owl identifies himself as Jacob

[rich granite]

When does he identify himself as Jakob?

[floral mauve]

Paradox

And by the end of paradise

Paradox is just to make sure

[azure bay]

it's vague there

[floral mauve]

I know

[rich granite]

Ahhh

Ok

I was under the assumption he was caroline

My bad

[floral mauve]

It’s a common thought

Don’t worry

[azure bay]

I told you already that he has past life memories but no knowledge about making the elixir

[rich granite]

I'm sorry for dwelling on this but my brain is refusing to move on

Is it possible that owl is both

[azure bay]

I doubt that

[floral mauve]

Well ehm

I don’t think so

One enlightened

And one sacrifices

[rich granite]

But I mean

Jakob didn't drink the elixir

[floral mauve]

Didn’t he

[azure bay]

ohhhh.....

[rich granite]

No

I just replayed it

He didn't drink anything

[floral mauve]

Enlighten the lad

[azure bay]

hold my tea

[floral mauve]

Me go eat ice cream

[rich granite]

Wat

Did I miss something

[floral mauve]

No

Nowhere will explain

I am bad at it

[rich granite]

Caw?

[floral mauve]

Caw

[rich granite]

becomes birb

[rich granite]

holds tea

[azure bay]

This is Caroline's elixir formula

[rich granite]

I know

[azure bay]

this is her stating the rule of 2 once again

this is the event

[rich granite]

I'm aware

But that Corrupted in caroline

Is*

[azure bay]

what does it mean in the end?

[rich granite]

Idk

[floral mauve]

connect two images

[true kelp]

Caroline became a corrupted soul due to the torment she went through because of Nikolai?

[azure bay]

I was asking about Carolince being a CS

[analog yacht]

caroline was not enlightened

[rich granite]

But then how was Jakob if he never drank the Elixir

[floral mauve]

yes we eliminated one option

[azure bay]

he did. Look around him

then look into the book

[rich granite]

I know

But when did he drink it

[true kelp]

You don't need to be enlightened to become a CS?

[azure bay]

there and then whatever that place was

[azure bay]

these are almost like the opposites

[rich granite]

No I'm talking about Jakob maybe becoming Mr. Owl

[true kelp]

Yeah he's Mr. Owl

I thought that was obvious

[rich granite]

I thought Caroline was Mr. Owl

[azure bay]

the final scene is them consuming the elixir

[floral mauve]

we are trying to explain why it that

[rich granite]

Or that it was both

[true kelp]

because of Caroline. She set it up

[floral mauve]

I had this thought 15 months ago

I wasnt familiar with samsara back then

[azure bay]

"One will find death the other enlightenment"

[floral mauve]

but soul fusion doesnt exist

[azure bay]

honestly, it could be introduced into the series if the devs wanted that

[floral mauve]

that would be nice

[rich granite]

But wiat

Caroline drank the Elixir and was dead and then her son came and like a week or a month or maybe a year it's unclear drank it

[floral mauve]

where did u get this impression from

[floral mauve]

I thought both subjects are in this image

[rich granite]

Idk

She invented the elixir so I guess I assumed she drank it

We were never given a cause of death in paradise

Just that she had died

[azure bay]

dude

are you serious now?

[rich granite]

Yeah

Am I missing something

[floral mauve]

fire, mask, fall into the lake

[floral mauve]

like mother, like son

[rich granite]

Oh yeah

I did not sleep well last night so pardon any stupid I exhibit

That doesn't mean she didn't drink the elixir

Amd if she didn't who did with jakob

[floral mauve]

why do you refuse to believe the fact that Jakob is Owl's past life

[azure bay]

no one drank elixir that day. But they both consumed it

[rich granite]

But in Roots when William and the dog drank it they both died instantly

[floral mauve]

?

[azure bay]

in Roots both parties were alive. In Paradise both dead

[rich granite]

Idk my mind is fixated that is Caroline and won't move in for some reason

[rich granite]

Did they consume it while dead?

[azure bay]

She was a CS, he was burnt alive, elixir elements she hid in her memories were extracted and fused together

[rich granite]

So when did they consume the elixir

[azure bay]

during the final scene

at that red purgatory

[rich granite]

How

If they're both dead

Can u consume the elixir while dead?

[azure bay]

as the devs said, elixir can have many different forms

[rich granite]

Ok

I didn't know that

[azure bay]

I'd call that one a conceptual

it was created from memories

and didn't have a liquid form

but it was definitely it since the elements correspond Caroline's book

but that was never about which one of them became Owl

[rich granite]

Ok thank you this makes sense now

Does Caroline become anyone or not?

[azure bay]

this is though

[rich granite]

His head looks so smol

[azure bay]

I think everyone becomes someone sooner or later. But we actually don't know

[azure bay]

because it's not his former body

[rich granite]

Maybe she becomes one of the vanderbooms that drank the elixir

[azure bay]

why them specifically?

[rich granite]

Idk

They rediscovered it

[azure bay]

Paradox seemingly tells that they just used Caroline's book

the movie that is

[rich granite]

Yeah I'm just throwing stuff out hrre

[azure bay]

A. vdB W. vdB 2604

[spiral light]

Hello! Can someone help me make a timeline of everything? Is for a project I'm making!

[floral mauve]

@spiral light

[slow ridge]

You can search that in Fandom. It’s too complicated to explain it once in for all

Even those explain channel in YouTube or bilibili doesn’t come out right often

[azure bay]

I wonder what he means by a timeline of everything

a minimalistic chronology of the games or in-depth explanation of the story?

[vapid portal]

so lacus fleo is latin for "i cry a lake" and i was wondering if there was more depth to that detail. is it a reference to emma's sacrifice? when laura's soul became corrupted in the mill and the rain started pouring, was she "crying a lake"?

i also know that when you look lacus fleo up you get "lake flevo", a lake in the netherlands but that feels too boring to discuss

[delicate atlas]

I think the second is more probable

Because the developers are Dutch

[late galleon]

What do I need to play/watch/read to catch up on the lore

[covert wyvern]

play everything, come up with your own questions and answers!

[azure bay]

well, Paradox movie is a must watch

[twin roost]

||Does anybody think that its weird that Rose's grandma Mary gets a ROSE from her future fiance James, and that she bleeds Blood, which is also Rose's sacrifice?? Like yall hear me out... If William needed blood so bad, he could have got it from Mary!!😂😂||

For all of yall who haven't played roots yet, i censored my "theroy"...

[floral mauve]

I like the reference of both roses u mentioned there

but apparently its one sacrifice per person

[floral mauve]

bleeding nose due to rose is probably foreshadowing of Rose sacrificing blood

however, I dont know how to link Rose with Mary

time to summon

@azure bay

[azure bay]

Don't be bothered. The game is 6 yo, and spoiler warning is in the description

[azure bay]

I missed the part why we need to link Rose to Mary

[floral mauve]

Dunno

There is evidence suggesting that there are connections between them

[azure bay]

what evidence?

[floral mauve]

this

Probably just foreshadowing

[azure bay]

or just a coincidence

[floral mauve]

???

I think that a pretty cool detail that I didn’t notice before

[azure bay]

If I were getting a dime each time I see roses and blood together I'd be a millionaire by now

[floral mauve]

Cool

[silver spindle]

I feel pitty for him

[azure bay]

please, elaborate 🙂

[silver spindle]

OMG!!! I never thought about it!!!!

[azure bay]

Rose and Mary connection isn't obvious nor revealing. But question about why Rose's blood specifically seems right

[floral mauve]

could u guys repeat the doubts

so one is why Laura has to die

[vital bobcat]

yes

because

William was reincarnated as Laura

[floral mauve]

and

why would she have to die just because an old alchemist reincarnated as her

she had a life as Laura and does not have access to the memories of William

[azure bay]

What are u talking about in the 1st place?

[floral mauve]

I dunno

go see in general

[vital bobcat]

OH

does she not

hm

then um

wait mr crow can see the future right?

[azure bay]

Reincarnation is as nirmal as death. And normally people don't recall a thing.

[floral mauve]

I think so

but not clearly

limited future vision

[rare drum]

huh

[azure bay]

What does indicate that?

[floral mauve]

I think in roots

they are gonna have a miserable future

[rare drum]

i thought thats just his plan

[vital bobcat]

because he said "we all are here in our past and future lives"

[floral mauve]

and also when he tries to save leonard

that part is most confusing

[vital bobcat]

which means he must know about

the past

and the future

[floral mauve]

this has many explanations

[vital bobcat]

of practically everyone

[azure bay]

That's just samsara. And the children... He could predict based on their interraction and nothing more

[floral mauve]

yep

[vital bobcat]

based on whose interaction

[floral mauve]

the children in roots

triplets

[rare drum]

i thought it was him sorta explaining his plan

like he doesnt know for sure

[vital bobcat]

oh no he said that before they were even born

[azure bay]

Also possible

[azure bay]

No, it was after seeing them

[vital bobcat]

at least he knew about his brother's reincarnation

[vital bobcat]

no what

he said that in the bonus level

[rare drum]

you guys are talking about different quotes

[vital bobcat]

the one before james

[floral mauve]

yea

we are talking about two quotes mainly

[azure bay]

"poor kids" or "always here"?

[rare drum]

always here

[floral mauve]

discussing whether Crow has future vision

[vital bobcat]

always here

[azure bay]

Agree here

The brothers knew one of them will die

[rare drum]

yes

[azure bay]

It's only natural to agree on that after preparing a backdoor ritual

[floral mauve]

so the only future vision we have is Ida and Hotel Owl white cube

does that mean fate do exist

[vital bobcat]

irl or in the games?

[floral mauve]

in the games

[rare drum]

in game im assuming

irl is a completely different convo

[azure bay]

And according to The Lake, fate can be changed

[vital bobcat]

that made much more sense

the

symbolic meaning

[floral mauve]

its too much interpretations

but its an interesting approach

so deer

deer is a common element

[vital bobcat]

yes

[floral mauve]

appears to be on three characters mainly

[vital bobcat]

the skull that albert wears

[floral mauve]

Nicholas, Dale and Albert

[vital bobcat]

is also of a deer?

[vital bobcat]

wait

how

Dale

[floral mauve]

play the white door and paradox

[vital bobcat]

how is Dale connected to the deer

[vital bobcat]

I have

Dale isn’t anywhere in twd

[floral mauve]

then u should acknowledge deer dale

[floral mauve]

he is

check easter eggs

[vital bobcat]

wait when

oh

wait

[floral mauve]

but deer Dale was in paradox

chapter 2

even the paradox room itself has a deer skull

[vital bobcat]

OHHHH

so that was Dale

I always thought it was Albert in twd for some reason

[floral mauve]

bruh

[azure bay]

They aren't clear about a kind of sacrifice they imply

[twin roost]

Not trying to take credit or anything so im just gonna add a screenshot of a comment in the rusty lake wiki

It was under the page of Rose that if Albert could create her artifficially they could make more babies and get body parts from them

which sounds like a preety cool theory😂

[steady zinc]

maybe it's just to add suspense hence the sacrifices

[azure bay]

They could take all the sacrifices when James died if it was that easy

[twin roost]

or that

rusty lake is confusing af😂😵

[steady zinc]

did y'all think tht the new game would probably be linked to newer events or the past?

[twin roost]

Idk

Which one are you talkin bout tpw or the train game?

tpw is orobably bout the past...? but also the future as there is the robot computer cube thing

[azure bay]

The Past Within will probably be about Albert somehow fixing his death

his own words

[twin roost]

as of the train game its probably gonna be bout Laura's life...?

[azure bay]

I think so. At least about her childhood specifically

[twin roost]

im SOOO excited for those new games

like REALLY EXCITED

when tpw comes out imma be like rusty lake take my money😂

[steady zinc]

damn. i thought we would get some newer stories.
it would be cool if it's about Dr hoorn's daughter exploring Rusty Lake. hence continuing from the White Door

[azure bay]

Despite your hand in my demise, [...] I hope you are prepared to rectify your previous error in the coming year because remember… the past is NEVER dead!

[twin roost]

is that the bald guy from The white door? He has a child?😂

[azure bay]

it's technically a new story. Just about old characters

[steady zinc]

yea the ARG game has clues where it shows the daughter has an Instagram and also a YouTube channel

[twin roost]

What

[azure bay]

not many still remember it

[twin roost]

what ARG?

that some new stuff?

[azure bay]

it was a thing some time after TWD release

[steady zinc]

game where you find clues from the 'real world ' so to speak

[twin roost]

OoO

[steady zinc]

like there are clues you can investigate

[azure bay]

and a secret in-game ending

[steady zinc]

yea i feel like it's underrated lol

[twin roost]

there's MORE SECRET ENDINGS??

I only knew bout the Sarah one

[azure bay]

it's also about Sarah

but going bigger

[twin roost]

🤯

[azure bay]

I guess I'll have to make a video about it one day

but back totheories

@twin roost reposting someone's 1-2yo posts doesn't fulfill 2 other purposes of this channel. Asking precising questions and criticizing them.

But if you take

some time to develop them and introduce your own thoughts, you are free to take your share of credit and resolve the aforementioned problem

[floral mauve]

I think in order to get something valuable u have to sacrifice something valuable as well

infinite test tube baby doesnt sound valuable for a programmed reincarnation of a soul

[azure bay]

or sacrifice something meaningful

[floral mauve]

exactly

u might get something still

after dumping all those babies to the tree and brutally killing them, u might receive a miserable fate and die

I was inventing stuff

forgive me

[floral mauve]

but hey I do agree on the first comment on the top

my theory of Rose passed away is still valid

[azure bay]

You may agree on the conclusion but not necessarily the reasons

[floral mauve]

true

[rare drum]

but 'future' is probably not as far as when most of dales story takes place
actually rose would still be alive then but eh

[floral mauve]

Then why the box is below the lake and why she didn’t show up when the woman is dead

[azure bay]

what do u mean by show up?

[floral mauve]

Maybe ignore the second one

I just woke up

My mind is not clear

[azure bay]

ok then please answer that

let's suppose Rose died

how would the crate end up in the lake?

[floral mauve]

That needs many assumptions

It could be Laura who dropped the crate in the lake

Maybe Rose’s last wishes

Idk

I am dramatic

[azure bay]

Why couldn't Laura drop it there while Rose was alive?

Why couldn't Rose just drop it there herself and stay alive?

[floral mauve]

The stuff in it seems too important for Rose since it represents her past life

Broke gold timepiece is also emphasising it

[azure bay]

well, I imagine if there were a conflict between them, that wouldn't be much of a problem

[floral mauve]

Anyway

I don’t think we can get a conclusion on this

Before the game is out

[azure bay]

but you are actively trying to

[floral mauve]

It’s one approach I like

U can suggest another one if u want

[azure bay]

When I saw a broken timepiece next to Laura's photo I thought of her accidentally breaking it

that gave me an idea of a possible conflict

but I'm not pushing it that hard

[floral mauve]

That’s a nice plot as well

Since a distant mother daughter relationship could be a thing

[rare drum]

oops i meant 'could'
could still be alive
as in she wouldnt be that old

[floral mauve]

Indeed

Hopefully she is alive

Either way