jade anvil
It is apparent that nowadays everything is politics, to avoid any rule 8 ambiguities where controversial discussions may take place without moderation, I believe changing Rule 1 to explicitly include no racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia of any kind would be beneficial.
Low effort suggestion, but a suggestion nonetheless 
Exhibit A: <#engine-dev message>
This was blamed to be a rule 8 enforcement failure, while I believe this to be a rule 1 enforcement failure
honest rivet
in what way?
jade anvil
are you asking in what way this is a rule 1 enforcement failure?
jade anvil
ye mb
rule 1 says "be nice and respectful"
most discord servers extend that to "no racism/sexism/etc"
it is clear that the dude was being incredibly sexist and misogynist
just look at the link I posted
"Women should belong to the kitchen"
"Eh well they don't hate women they just express things different 
"
that's ridiculously disrespectful
honest rivet
"Women should belong to the kitchen"
what where did he write that lol
tired mural
I didn't see that either
honest rivet
"Eh well they don't hate women they just express things different
I think he referred to them using outdated offensive language
in germany the n word was literally used in product names up until like 2013 ish?
so my grandparents just use it sometimes still cause its still normal to them
maybe an extreme example looool
dull gull
to put this diplomatically, there's definitely a bit of culture shock when you join this server because a good few people here seem like they've only ever hung out with upper middle class urban types, perhaps even techie types
jade anvil
>"Women should belong to the kitchen"
what where did he write that lol
as it turns out I'm dumb and stupid and that was pixel making a (bad) joke
dull gull
and usually the people (like this guy) that react the strongest, are exactly the opposite
I remember another guy a while back who seemed particularly rural and not about the life
jade anvil
but still, just by saying "they (jblow & friends) don't hate women" is clearly telling of their character
dull gull
that they have a difference of opinion to you?
jade anvil
hating women is not an "difference of opinion"
dull gull
to put this diplomatically, there's definitely a bit of culture shock when you j...
you should seriously think about this
craggy narwhal
He didn't really say he hated women did he
honest rivet
i think how we talk is very harsh but we kinda all know each other internet wise so its fine.
but outsiders get killed
tired mural
I think what he meant was simply that what's (in some circles) considered sexist today wasn't before...case in point, the Jblow tweet that was brought up
honest rivet
im also guilty of that sometimes i think
jade anvil
i think how we talk is very harsh but we kinda all know each other internet wise...
I mean I've never seen any of you make any bad remarks
dull gull
yeah I mean it's noticeable sometimes that beyond the insider-ness there's a lot of people among the regulars who have let's just say a narrow view of the world
honest rivet
i mean i am rude sometimes, not that i use a fork to get my gf to cook for me
jade anvil
so you're all good
jade anvil
i mean i am rude sometimes, not that i use a fork to get my gf to cook for me
I have been guilty of this too yes
craggy narwhal
It's ok to kill people over being a 14 year old trying to learn OpenGL but not when someone has a different background from you
jade anvil
we're not perfect, but there's a difference to "being rude to a vampire beginner asking for help with homework" and straight up being a misogynist
dull gull
I am personally fine with people being harsh when it comes to on topic stuff, yeah
but part of why rule 8 exists is because you should be mindful of what iceberg you're crashing into
even if you think you're past the tip
honest rivet
we're not perfect, but there's a difference to "being rude to a vampire beginner...
imo from what i read thats a far projection. You can have some regressive views without beeing a misogynist straight up.
craggy narwhal
The beauty of rule 8 is being able to just shut down political conversation without enforcing any "correct" political opinion that just causes divisiveness
tired mural
but still, just by saying "they (jblow & friends) don't hate women" is clearly t...
I'm gonna be straight up, I researched this because I never heard of Jblow being sexist, I don't even like the guy particularly but all I found was a tweet where he said that women on average have less interest in tech....if that is considered sexist now then I have to agree with neutrino
That is called statistics
jade anvil
imo from what i read thats a far projection. You can have some regressive views ...
maybe that's true, maybe it isn't
still sexism should still be included in rule 1
sexism is just as bad as misogyny
craggy narwhal
Programming is traditionally a woman's job lol I think the whole discussion was kinda dumb but that's beside the point about rule 8 enforcement
dull gull
it's not even sexism it's like the indirect discussion of the theoretical capacity for some other guy to be sexist
craggy narwhal
The beauty of rule 8 is being able to just shut down political conversation with...
.
jade anvil
I'm gonna be straight up, I researched this because I never heard of Jblow being...
no that's wrong
he said "women are biologically less interested in tech"
tired mural
And?
jade anvil
which is, shocking I know, very sexist
dull gull
and?
jade anvil
bro
tired mural
How is that sexist
jade anvil
????
craggy narwhal
I mean it's just an observation
jade anvil
it's a retarded observation
one that is spread purposefully to keep women from tech jobs
honest rivet
i dont think thats sexist thats just a thing you can say. It doesnt degrade woman in any way.
tired mural
Being interested in tech doesn't make you a better person
dull gull
???
jade anvil
have y'all ever heard of this magical thing called the patriarchy?
obtuse lotus
The beauty of rule 8 is being able to just shut down political conversation with...
if no racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia is not assumed as the default correct political opinion this server is not very welcoming is it
honest rivet
like men are also less intrested in biology generally in sciences than woman
tired mural
Theres probably more women interested in graphic design than men
dull gull
idk how to put this any more diplomatically
craggy narwhal
More egalitarian societies than ours still has that gap but either way this is going in the completely wrong direction
honest rivet
no clue of thats biological or whatever but that doesnt matter, does it?
craggy narwhal
The point is that rule 8 is good
jade anvil
I'm not asking to change rule 8
dull gull
like, at this point you need to consider how your statements could inflame rule 8
jade anvil
I'm asking to enhance rule 1
just define rule 1 better
include racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia in rule 1 and we're golden
that way when someone is sexist we can just mute him on the spot
obtuse lotus
it's a retarded observation
it's an observation that stems from the fact that women have been pushed out of tech, and which leads to women being pushed out of tech 🙃
jade anvil
it's an observation that stems from the fact that women have been pushed out of ...
thank you
dull gull
a big failing with every major rule 8 snafu is when people don't realize they're trying to make political statements because they're too narrow minded
jade anvil
finally a sane person
honest rivet
he said "women are biologically less interested in tech"
is that the only thing he said?
dull gull
and when they're too narrow minded in a way you don't agree with it's obvious
honest rivet
then i dont think hes sexist at all
jade anvil
is that the only thing he said?
idk any other things, I don't follow jblow
jade anvil
then i dont think hes sexist at all
read what potato said
dull gull
but you should not avail yourself of when you're saying things that are inflamatory to the conversation or everyone else
especially if you notice how everyone is a little confused at your take on the matter
jade anvil
the women are biologically less/more X are common misogynist arguments used to push women out of spaces
obtuse lotus
biology doesn't control what you're interested in
honest rivet
im pretty sure its just some half assed remark with him having no strong opinion on it
craggy narwhal
Yes the issue is like 5 minutes of back and forth arguing where the mods and their political bias butt heads with other person with their political bias and only once that person is deemed to be pushing the limits is rule 8 invoked
It's very subjective
dull gull
you should disregard all that
jade anvil
im pretty sure its just some half assed remark with him having no strong opinion...
does that mean we should ignore influential people who do this garbage potentially hurting other people in the process???
dull gull
and think about how the mere fact you're having a back and forth about it might mean that it's A) not as clear cut as you want to claim and B) therefore, definitionally, controversial
and therfore rule 8
jade anvil
or should we call this shit out in hopes of creating a better community inclusive of everyone?
dull gull
you should think about this
craggy narwhal
Rule 8 Arena 2 electric boogaloo in progress 😍
jade anvil
and think about how the mere fact you're having a back and forth about it might ...
I believe you're just not seeing what I'm seeing
There is no arguing this
dull gull
no I get your point, I understand what you're getting at
craggy narwhal
The most inclusive community is one where political discourse is shut down by invoking rule 8 rather than making value judgements about people's beliefs, no matter what they are
honest rivet
does that mean we should ignore influential people who do this garbage potential...
condemming him on a single expression that might not even be thought through or anything is not good either
dull gull
but let me drop the bombshell, it is just a political opinion
jade anvil
but my argument is that this should fall under rule 1
dull gull
QED
jade anvil
no
honest rivet
loool
jade anvil
I am telling you rule 1 takes priority over rule 8
craggy narwhal
Lvstri you are like the mirror image of jebrim lol
dull gull
yeah literally
jade anvil
if you can't be nice and respectful then get the fuck out of here
dull gull
poor guy
obtuse lotus
the bare minimum expectation from social interactions shouldn't be relegated to just 'ha politics'
dull gull
you don't wanna be the anti-jebrim
honest rivet
Lvstri you are like the mirror image of jebrim lol
hahahahaha
jade anvil
are you comparing my argument to that of a literally insane person?
dull gull
we should put them together and see if they annihilate each other
jade anvil
ok pause for a moment
craggy narwhal
He's not insane he's just obstinate lol
jade anvil
hold on a second
honest rivet
dull gull
he's so narrow minded it forms a line
craggy narwhal
Wait we have to get the frogcorn emoji added first
jade anvil
is this an issue where you believe rule 8 should have priority over rule 1?
honest rivet
its 3 am and im here 👴 omg i will die
obtuse lotus
its 2 am and i am going to death too
dull gull
its ok I am trying to clean this up
the point fundamentally is that the only reason this was incensed is because there was a dispute in a public, on topic discord channel about a difference of opinion on politics
obtuse lotus
you are calling someone who wants inclusivity in the rules narrow minded
wtf
that's not trying to clean it up
that's making it worse
dull gull
both you and the offending party clearly don't wanna compromise on wanting to discuss politics unilaterally until you win the argument
hence why rule 8 exists
craggy narwhal
Rule 1: respect people
Rule 8: no politics
When someone says something rude about someone else (e.g. says something homophobic) you say "that's not respectful, rule 1." When someone argues about it you say "rule 8". You don't need to insert specific protected classes or anything
dull gull
you can't just lawyer other stuff to take precedence to win arguments when the point of rule 8 is to prevent such a contentious scenario from existing
craggy narwhal
If someone is being disrespectful they are breaking rule 1 period
dull gull
it's missing the forest for the trees
honest rivet
you are calling someone who wants inclusivity in the rules narrow minded
ah yes my political opinions are correct ofc ofc so only use rule 8 on others!
jade anvil
I feel like I'm going insane
obtuse lotus
same
jade anvil
how is this acceptable?
obtuse lotus
ah yes my political opinions are correct ofc ofc so only use rule 8 on others!
like bro what
jade anvil
"my political opinions are different from yours therefore I am allowed to hate women"
dull gull
the simple fact of the matter is that you are knee deep in a political argument with someone who isn't even here and you don't even know it
and this situation was preventable
jade anvil
yes, by enforcing rule 1 early
honest rivet
"my political opinions are different from yours therefore I am allowed to hate w...
massive hyperbole. This didnt even come up here
craggy narwhal
Nobody said he's allowed to express his hatred for women the point is that everyone dogpiling him shouldn't have been arguing politics back at him only to slap him with rule 8 and nobody else gets in trouble
tired mural
"my political opinions are different from yours therefore I am allowed to hate w...
You are trying to read the hate part between the lines but to many of us it is simply not there, observations about preferences of women is not hating women
dull gull
yeah beyond the fact that at this point it's strawmanning a guy, who, isn't even here
honest rivet
john blow and the nero guy dont hate woman i believe. From all i read here and watched john blow.
dull gull
he's gone with the wind
jade anvil
You are trying to read the hate part between the lines but to many of us it is s...
listen
dull gull
you're talking about one guy's opinion on another guy, none of them we know personally
jade anvil
you all have eyes and can read english
dull gull
but you need to win your argument with him
honest rivet
You are trying to read the hate part between the lines but to many of us it is s...
exactly
dull gull
do you not see how this is the snowball effect of a situation caused directly by talking politics
craggy narwhal
The content of that specific incident is almost irrelevant
It's the mechanics of how it snowballs that matters
jade anvil
when I see someone agreeing with the misogynist rhetoric "women are biologically less interested in tech" (which is used all the time by misogynists there's no hiding it) I am going to say that this person is not being very respectful
dull gull
but why are you taking this and running with it
jade anvil
I'm not
honest rivet
you are overprojecting this case massively
jade anvil
I want to make rule 1 explicit so that this very situation is avoided in the future
craggy narwhal
Whether or not that's misogynistic is a subjective and politicized opinion so I'm invoking rule 8
jade anvil
that's the most stupid thing I've ever heard today
dull gull
I would hate to invoke anything implying majority here but listen if only one of us in the room is hearing the voices
they might be in your head
jade anvil
this discussion is pointless
obtuse lotus
it makes me want to mash my head against the wall
jade anvil
I'll leave the thread up to the mods to decide whether to enhance rule 1 or not
y'all need to reflect on yourselves lol
barren frigate
Lvstri you are like the mirror image of jebrim lol
not autistic enough tbh
dull gull
not yet
honest rivet
because of exactly these things rule 8 should have been enforced to begin with before the incident happened and he left imo
dull gull
https://play.runescape.com/
this is a perfectly good moment to throw your life away
obtuse lotus
because of exactly these things rule 8 should have been enforced to begin with b...
explicitly saying no sexism/racism/etc isn't allowed would probably have made them leave a lot earlier lol
or atleast be a lot more careful when speaking
jade anvil
I hope you're all joking but if you aren't then idk what to say
craggy narwhal
I was mostly teasing but there is a kernel of truth in it
honest rivet
explicitly saying no sexism/racism/etc isn't allowed would probably have made th...
he left because others were rude to him
jade anvil
I was mostly teasing but there is a kernel of truth in it
there is not a single hair of truth in this
dull gull
I hate to break it to you
jade anvil
wanting inclusivity should not be considered controversial or political
honest rivet
explicitly saying no sexism/racism/etc isn't allowed would probably have made th...
im sure he has no problem with that at all
jade anvil
if you do consider it controversial or political then I will call you stupid and I will consider you subhuman
honest rivet
he didnt even say anything sexist/racist at all.
dull gull
Jebrim from the mirror world: [insert controversial opinion] should not be considered controversial
obtuse lotus
im sure he has no problem with that at all
yeah but it's a lot easier instaban when he blatantly ignores such an explicit rule 
jade anvil
Jebrim from the mirror world: [insert controversial opinion] should not be consi...
yeah, the only difference is that he was insane
small difference
obtuse lotus
Jebrim from the mirror world: [insert controversial opinion] should not be consi...
if inclusivity is controversial to you, frankly, what the fuck dude
craggy narwhal
he left because others were rude to him
More specifically he left because the argument got hairy in both directions but only he got in trouble for it because of the side he was on
jade anvil
plus this is a true statement, no matter what
dull gull
controversy is not a subjective thing, it means that people argue about it
you can't just ignore it when people argue about stuff
jade anvil
yes you can
honest rivet
More specifically he left because the argument got hairy in both directions but ...
yes
jade anvil
there's a very cool button called "ban"
obtuse lotus
dull gull
that's literally the reason why rule 8 exists though, it's proving the point more and more
jade anvil
it works 100% of the times
jade anvil
that's literally the reason why rule 8 exists though, it's proving the point mor...
it didn't work clearly
barren frigate
if you do consider it controversial or political then I will call you stupid and...
I don't think we should consider anyone subhuman 
craggy narwhal
it didn't work clearly <:froge:865721361225351176>
Because the mods involved are biased themselves and didn't have the foresight to see where it was going
obtuse lotus
exactly why an explicit rule 1 would help?
jade anvil
yes and I'm telling you
obtuse lotus
lol
dull gull
the mods also (to their credit, don't get me wrong) are careful to watch a situation play out before making a hasty and misguided judgement
jade anvil
that enhancing rule 1 would fix this
literally please
go read the top of this post
what I'm asking for
"mods are biased so we should enhance rule 1 and avoid invoking rule 8 in ambiguous situations"
it's that simple
craggy narwhal
No rule 8 was the perfect solution to that problem
dull gull
yeah and literally its loosening has consistently caused issues, see this case
craggy narwhal
It should have been used as soon as the jblow discussion became about politics instead of coding
jade anvil
jesus
craggy narwhal
Tbh I am partly to blame (rule 8 Arena)
honest rivet
it should have been shut as soon as it was mentioned john would be sexist. There is no point in discussing that at all in a gp server
craggy narwhal
Especially in engine dev lol
dull gull
let's play a little hypothetical scenario, let's say this guy was instantly banned... the aftershocks of the convo are still going
barren frigate
why does #engine-dev attract such random-ass discussions
dull gull
so clearly the problem lies elsewhere
jade anvil
you should be able to call someone sexist (with evidence) without consequences
craggy narwhal
Why lol
jade anvil
but yes that was a bit over the top for #engine-dev
honest rivet
why does <#699669145737756682> attract such random-ass discussions
its where people go that lost most of their neurons already
craggy narwhal
What if you're wrong
jade anvil
that I agree with
dull gull
I should be able to call someone a
without consequences
jade anvil
What if you're wrong
I'm clearly not
jade anvil
yes
craggy narwhal
That's your opinion
craggy narwhal
There's nothing objective about any of these things it's not something you can do an experiment to prove quantitatively lol
dull gull
also you formed your opinion about a guy who A) is not here and can't defend himself and B) formed an opinion on another guy, indirectly, for reasons not elaborated
what kind of crazy game of telephone is that
a guy that guy A doesn't know personally
jade anvil
There's nothing objective about any of these things it's not something you can d...
just go on andrew tate's channel and watch him say the exact same words
"women are not biologically suited for X"
honest rivet
bro wtf
craggy narwhal
Lmao what
honest rivet
thats not what was said at all
dull gull
guy A is sexist because guy C said something guy B might have said
jade anvil
ok idk what to tell you
craggy narwhal
Also comparing andrew Tate to jblow is 
jade anvil
I'm not doing that
tired mural
"women are not biologically suited for X"
"Are not biologically suited" and "less interested to on average" are like...worlds apart
jade anvil
I'm saying that the argument jblow used was very clearly used in misogynistic contexts
craggy narwhal
That's not even the claim that was made
jade anvil
I'm not saying omg jblow is literally andrew tate
jade anvil
"Are not biologically suited" and "less interested to on average" are like...wor...
I checked this out
you are wrong
barren frigate
this whole thread is bait tbh
jade anvil
he said they're less biologically interested
no it's not
it was a very simple request
dull gull
the more bait it is the more it proves the point with rule 8
barren frigate
I'm biologically joe
jade anvil
again it was a very simple request
dull gull
not since the layoff
tired mural
he said they're less biologically interested
That doesn't bring it any closer to "not suited"
jade anvil
tomato potato
honest rivet
no
craggy narwhal
Not at all lol
honest rivet
its not even close
dull gull
not in the slightest
jade anvil
yeah I'll remark again that this discussion is pointless
craggy narwhal
Men are statically unlikely to want to wear a dress but I don't think you'd argue that that means they should be forbidden from
jade anvil
TL;DR for the mods, please just add "no racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia" to rule 1
dull gull
it almost feels like I'm a broken record here but if it's possible to dig ad infinitum on this issue when all offending parties are long gone, and rule 1 in its most extreme couldn't even apply, the problem is clearly elsewhere
jade anvil
yeah sure whatever you want
honest rivet
TL;DR for the mods, please just add "no racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia" to...
this doesnt fix the issue
jade anvil
just add the inclusivity to the rule for peace of mind
honest rivet
like demon said. its about how the existing rules are enforced
who cares what rules include what specifically
everyone knows what is meant already
dull gull
yeah and that's not even to mention, completely unrelated to any of this, rules lawyering is like a harbinger of the fall
usually it comes from the mods though
jade anvil
ok then I'll add another request to the thread (just mute them immediately, for like 1 hr)
jade anvil
to restore order
dull gull
as much fun as it is in tiny doses the rule8shedding has started to get tiresome
jade anvil
it has
dull gull
speaking candidly I would like lvstri to stop inflaming it further
jade anvil
mainly because you all consider basic decency politics
I would like you to stop considering basic decency politics
regardless of whether it's subjective or not
craggy narwhal
We already have a rule that says be decent to one another
Making a list of which specific groups of people are explicitly worthy of respect is forbidden by rule 8
dull gull
being decent also involves calming down and accepting that some peopel share a difference of opinion, and as shocking as it might be in [current year]
at one point in the long forgotten past people had the social maturity to avoid politics so they could talk about sometihng that wasn't politics without bringing the columns crashing down
jade anvil
not when you're insulting half the population, no
honest rivet
mainly because you all consider basic decency politics
such 3am statements dont help either. If you really think that you have poor reading comprehension honestly.
dull gull
regardless of whether they whole heartedly believed their cause was everything and anything
craggy narwhal
Darn I gotta drive home don't delete the thread until I have time to catch up
dull gull
at one point in the long forgotten past people had the social maturity to avoid ...
yeah its clearly inflamatory, it's either 200IQ, artisanally crafted bait but related to this point above, keep the columns as they are
don't pull the columns down over literally nothing
jade anvil
eh you still think it's bait lol
dull gull
I don't care if it's bait, it's damaging to the quality of the server no matter what it is
jade anvil
you heard it here ladies and gentlemen
asking for inclusivity is damaging to the server
honest rivet
the guy seemed to be a rendering veteran maybe from what i read. And that he left for this is dumb imo. He could have helped people.
honest rivet
asking for inclusivity is damaging to the server
you dont do that at all
jade anvil
oh right my bad
honest rivet
you just insinuate people are bad cause of projected opinions that they dont hold
dull gull
there is inclusivity here by default, if you wanna deal with social problems you gotta be able to handle social situations
jade anvil
yes I don't include sexist people and misogynist people
how could I
I am truly heartless
honest rivet
yea you call someone sexist that isnt and then its ok to hate on them
dull gull
I'm just saying I know a guy who couldn't grind his social skills to level 99 in runescape
and would react the same way...
jade anvil
genuine question, what are you trying to accomplish
yes I'm literally anti jebrim
haha funny
laugh everyone
it's exactly the same
dull gull
I didn't mean the new guy
jade anvil
no he's saying I am jebrim
truly
I don't know why he's doing this
maybe to get a reaction out of me idk
dull gull
jeb literally engulfed himself in whatever shit he thought was important without being able to step off the ledge and calm down to the point he was banned dazed and confused
jade anvil
It is apparent that nowadays everything is politics, to avoid any rule 8 ambigui...
For the mods, here's a pin to the top
Am I being unreasonable? I don't think so, but at least 4 people think I am
read the conversation if you dare
reading it may give you eye cancer however
obtuse lotus
tbh don't read it even if you really think you can
jade anvil
I will just go sleep
honest rivet
lvstri has so much power he could become a locomotive if he doesnt wanna program anymore
jade anvil
it's the end of the day, I can afford to waste some time on pointless discussions
I have nothing planned to do tomorrow anyway
honest rivet
this can only result in a hardcore political take guessing from the name
tired mural
People obviously disagree on what constitutes sexism....therefore moderating that rule would be problematic
jade anvil
it's ok I have officially stopped, the locomotive came to a halt
dull gull
guys named the demongod and twoheaded fetus coming in to make the most neutral take ever
honest rivet
lmao
as the italians say: true and real
(my whole image of italy is shaped based of lvstri) that country must produce an absurd amount of rendering code based on population
jade anvil
we did invent nanite
dull gull
skypjack, the entt guy, is also italian
jade anvil
I have also spoken with the original paper author
honest rivet
thats a death scentence
jade anvil
yes
honest rivet
pastalavista
dull gull
you want a cut of my counterfeit parmesan operation?
jade anvil
ah yes
dull gull
it's made 5 miles out of parma (highly illegal)
coral plinth
ultimately everything is politics, letting discount bin tate takes in without moderating them is politics, and enforcing a no-discrimination rule is also politics
i'd rather see the latter
craggy narwhal
We already have a no discrimination rule it's rule 1
coral plinth
you're avoiding the enforcement discussion this thread asks
craggy narwhal
I'm not I just disagree with it
In isolation as well as its relationship to the event this morning that triggered it
coral plinth
i'm speaking in support of this enhancement and lvs's position
the harm to being told to please remove your edgy jblow post is far less than the destructive potential to would be members of the community we turn away by allowing this sort of remark
craggy narwhal
Nobody posted jblow
someone got bullied off the server for saying jblow is an alright guy
coral plinth
the power of association is strong
but this isn't a proposal about allowing this sort of bullying
consider that even in the post charitable view, blow is a corrosive character who made a point to be polarising
craggy narwhal
sure, what about it
mental grove
honest rivet
Imo this discussion above about this specific case show that making rules like this more precise will do nothing.
The subjective wiggle room is too large to interpret it
jade anvil
what part of no sexism is ambiguous
I will fly to germany and you will look me in the eyes and say "yes this is sexist"
jade anvil
ye I wasn't gonna pester anymore anyway
I just wanted to share the actual evidence of jblow being a literal misogynist
honest rivet
its literally the same thing we talked about the whole time
like the exact same, there is nothing new in these tweets
tired mural
I just wanted to share the actual evidence of jblow being a literal misogynist <...
That is literally not evidence
"Interest is not the same as ability" = it doesn't matter if 30% less women are interested in tech than men, it doesn't speak anything on the ability of those that are
Biological factors = duh, do you think there is nothing biological about interest?
mental grove
wow I sure wish there was a rule whereby such discussions would be cut before they degenerated
truly, talking about women's biological interests is peak GP
tired mural
Yeah, it's ultimately not something that needs to be discussed, but I'm just saying why banning people for saying it makes no sense
jade anvil
it is insane to even think there is biology in interest
truly women cannot be programmers indeed
mental grove
anywhoo I agree that the original discussion should've just been stopped before it degenerated
but IMO it's more a moderation mistake than any issue with the rules
jade anvil
clep did you read the top of the post btw
mental grove
yea
jade anvil
do you think I am unreasonable for stating that being nice and respectful should take priority to political/controversial opinion
if your political opinion is misogyny then you should be banned period
that's literally all I'm asking for
tired mural
truly women cannot be programmers indeed
Why do you keep making up the "women can't be programmers" part, nothing about that statement implies it, it doesn't matter if less women are interested, those that are interested can definitely be programmers, he even said that with "Interest is not the same as ability"
mental grove
my personal opinion is that any and all talk around that stuff should be stopped before it degenerates, in this instance the second someone said something about sexism it should've gone to the politics symposium, aka been stopped
otherwise yes it's the mods essentially taking a stance
jade anvil
ok
jade anvil
I disagree but that's ok
mental grove
just don't be an ass (I say this to the guy who left)
jade anvil
yes
mental grove
sry wait unclear
jade anvil
incredible
mental grove
anyways yes the guy should've basically not gotten so triggered over mister blow getting called a bastard man
jade anvil
anywho I thought that pat's remark about jblow being sexist (an objectively true statement, no matter your political stance) was fine, but yes I agree that that message was the catalyst
mental grove
yea it should've just been stopped at that point
anywhoo there'll always be some form of bias in moderation sadly
especially when only a subset of moderators are around
mental grove
for example, me moderating in offtopic will tell u I gave ur mom gonorrhea, while dragon moderating in offtopic will behave like a normal, polite human being
(btw tell her I'm sorry)
(she can call me any time)
mental grove
nice nice nice
glad to hear
but yea
rule 1 is a bit ambiguous I guess
it used to not be
idk why we changed it
I think we just felt like it was self explanatory that no bigotry was allowed
mental grove
that being said "no bigotry" wouldn't really have covered the discussion we're talking about rn
since it started with politics
jade anvil
ehh that guy was pretty adamant
I believe he just wanted us to agree to his retarded opinion
mental grove
kekw
anywhoo
I think things are fine the way they are but I am biased since I'm part of the people who made things the way they are
mental grove
do not speak the forbidden lore
edgy adder
anywho I thought that pat's remark about jblow being sexist (an objectively true...
I have nothing of value to add. But, if it makes everyone feel better, Jblow is going broke
honest rivet
craggy narwhal
I believe he just wanted us to agree to his retarded opinion
quotes from the person in question:
"Im not discrediting what you are saying, you are completely welcome to your opinion"
"People can have different opinions from you and not be 'aholes' or whatever"
"I don't think arguing the merits of the whole <subject in question> thing is a good discussion though"
jade anvil
look
I think I made myself pretty clear
"women are X" is not an opinion
you can think and believe it's an opinion
it isn't
if you think it is you are definitely, positively, 100% confirmed, an asshole
that's all
craggy narwhal
Wat, that's not what I was responding to
jade anvil
I know I was responding to the "People can have different opinions from you and not be 'aholes' or whatever"
the rest is mostly fine, though I still think he was too far gone, given his other statements
#engine-dev message
look at this shit
jade anvil
ah yes he was clearly joking
whatever this is pointless as he left
so it doesn't matter
craggy narwhal
I mean he is serious about believing his viewpoint but he is obviously teasing about opinions being wrong
But yes cleppi has spoken so I agree there is no more to say
Maybe that guy will come back and we can have rule 8 Arena 3
jade anvil
sure, I'm up for pointless discussions
though I will still repeat, forever that this is not politics, not in the slightest
only the pieces of shit think this is political
just because you have pieces of human garbage spouting political garbage and using women's rights as political weapons doesn't mean we have to play by their rules
I like to think that our community is above that
obtuse lotus
i hope it is
zenith moth
I like to think that our community is above that
how can we be above it if we can't even agree which way is up
craggy narwhal
Suggestion: roles for political orientation (spin up and spin down)
jade anvil
the spin is an interesting idea for a role
maybe add another one for "what kind of fermion are you"
craggy narwhal
Then we can have a new completely arbitrary and meaningless political boundary to argue about rather than arguing about boring real world politics
obtuse lotus
do you break your spaghetti or no
zenith moth
obtuse lotus
this thread 💀
oh no did you lose all your braincells too reading it
jade anvil
this thread 💀
amirite
craggy narwhal
https://tenor.com/bLFnp.gif
hardy pendant
oh no did you lose all your braincells too reading it
reading this thread removed more braincells from my head than the opengl spec has so far
jade anvil
all messages past that gif are giving strong "this can't stop me because I can't read" vibes and that's really funny
but ye I am extremely sad that something as simple as this suggestion sparked so much discussion
should've been a quick and easy fix and yet
no more messages though
(fr this time)
coral plinth
discord needs a "close thread" button
hardy pendant
