#questions makes more sense... and if there is more traffic, #questions-2 woudl make sense imho, at least that worked well in programming heavier servers
#Jasper would like to have (much) less channels on the server
rigid obsidian
frosty forge
Lots of channels are actually this merging of several disparate topics into one to ensure we keep the channel count lower. Hardware currently a conversation about hardware sim. Also (consumer or server) hardware launches goes there & has flurries of massive activity around announcements or reviews for GP-relevant hardware. Or weirder questions about something that broke hardware-wise with GP interactions.
rigid obsidian
i agree
nemes-lair hardware does touch software side of gp too sometimes but its its own area really
frosty forge
I guess that's my reading of the suggestion: it's asking for what is already being done, basically. So there might be slight pruning possible but really that's going to slowly evolve (just as we are still technically "trialling" these forum channels & may make future edits around that).
rigid obsidian
i am reading it the same way, although jasper wanted more clipping than just pruning (which is also fine and does make sense, just doesnt fly with everyone to the full extend)
frosty forge
But a huge Thanos-style snapping of fingers around far fewer channels? I think it would be bad for the server & bad for conversations on the server.
rigid obsidian
the good thing is, we can always adapt/make changes, things dont have to be carved in stone for a year or two
i just renamed gp-news/resources to graphics-xx and techniques to graphics-techniques
the whole team effort thing could probably also be merged into your-projects
back when i thought a dedicated section makes it more visible, but nobody gives a fuck about anything team work (which is also fine, NIH needs to prevail)
besides its an experiment where i want everyone to run something n their gpu/driver/hw combo
it sucks that threads/forumposts are invisible by default
bugcollective/wip and showcase could be part of your-projects that way
the more i look at the channel list, im also for moving everything from the rendering category into discussions category
another frustrating thing is participation in anything. 21 people only in this post (ye its sunday and timezones suck)
frosty forge
Well I think move 3 of the Rendering block to Discussions, move one back to the bin.
Could make space by also retiring high/low level (one of those had an entire month of total inactivity before the most recent few posts [and hardware, questions, general, lang-dev can absorb the relevant topics], the other probably fold anything said there into general or questions or the relevant topic channel). So that would be retiring 3 channels & merging down one heading.
frosty forge
besides its an experiment where i want everyone to run something n their gpu/dri...
Given the recent security issues, I fear this sort of thing is basically dead.
frosty forge
Wow, we have an Anime channel! (this is how good channel mutes are, I had completely forgotten that even existed). I think promoting use of collapsed views/the "hide muted channels" setting & muting for your own experience is probably the best way of allowing people to define their own experience.
rigid obsidian
id rather yeet lang-dev over vr-ar, gobi has his own server too
let me merge rendering with discussions
without removing any channel
frosty forge
Ye, no need to recycle channels immediately. Just putting forward suggestions for anyone to comment on in the coming days in this suggestion thread.
rigid obsidian
and shuffle categories like
help
discussions
api
community-content
frosty forge
VR-AR seems as dead as people worried about in the 3rd attempt to resurrect it. lang-dev does actually move some GP-relevant things that are very niche (shader language construction, esoteric alternative systems programming languages & their development, DSL for various GP tasks) out of places like engine-dev, where it would otherwise have to live (or lew-level, which may be getting retired so not a useful play to move stuff to). Maybe we need to broaden lang0dev/low-level into a single home for all that chat?
rigid obsidian
fair
twin maple
damn now I need to re learn the layout again my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined
frosty forge
Yep, when it gets used at all.
rigid obsidian
yeah
lang-dev is also quite often bikeshed and why zig/rust suck ๐
i can move #related-servers into #welcome-and-rules
frosty forge
I kinda like how clean Welcome is (although maybe related-servers deserves more visibility from the move).
rigid obsidian
people also dont bother reading/checking it, from the questions i observed over the years
twin maple
why not mention it in welcome instead
last moth
community-content at the bottom feels weird
old prairie
Imho, even if annoying people don't read it, plenty of other will do.
Channel name + their short description is useful already, an additional sitemap won't hurt. It's part of the welcoming.
rigid obsidian
i also read these things, and im ok with providing a list/sitemapofsorts
blazing widget
Or a flowchart of where to ask your question?
rigid obsidian
sitemap should take care of that
blazing widget
I think something more visual and less wordy will be seen by more people
rigid obsidian
#channel-name - notjustcopiedchanneltopic but one ortwo more sentences explaining what the channel is about
old prairie
Also in term of usage, about #questions vs #questions forum: I only read the forum, I have muted the question channel. Because for me it's easier to check out new question and figure out if I'm interested. Questions is like General, goes too fast and stuff get lost.
rigid obsidian
we could experiment with that a little
and hide questions for some time, see if people get outraged by it, or just turn towards the forum
or ask somewhere else because they dotn understand forums
old prairie
(also to clarify, just sharing my usage and reasons for visibility, I'm not saying they can't change or that I can't adjust to new stuff.)
rigid obsidian
no worries, good that you share those with us
iirc we wanted to retire #questions anyway back when the forum stuff started but kept it alive as some sort of transition
safe cairn
remove anime
rigid obsidian
probably not
rigid obsidian
alot of people are
||
old prairie
remove anime
And getting all the freaks back in the other channels ? No thank you ||๐ ||
river hull
GP learns what a containment board is: the thread
lucid karma
Anime Containment Facilityโข๏ธ
rigid obsidian
i would love for the discussion to not be derailed as usual
ornate estuary
I feel weirded out that jobs is in the bottom though
Should be grouped with resources I think
rigid obsidian
that would tear it apart from other "career" related things imho
tall storm
why is community content below now 
ornate estuary
Ah yeah ur right
rigid obsidian
why is community content below now <:froge_sad:1105211463511048314>
not set in stone
flipped api/community
@tall storm @last moth speak
not just complain ๐
last moth
the reason i like community high up is because its like a little showcase of the community that newcomers see first
quiet grail
this is a weird change but I like it so far
river hull
yeah it makes community a tough one to move in general
north venture
:(
river hull
because community has all the "showy" channels
river hull
and it'd be weird to split off some/all of them to justify moving the shinier ones higher up
bold bison
Housekeeping is busy today. ๐
rigid obsidian
alright ill move it back to .. help... community... discussion.. api ...
ornate estuary
Move mathematics on the very bottom of discussions, probably worth it to sort by purity of the field
RT, Graphics Techniques, Compute, High level, low level, lang, soft raster, then mathematics
Just an opinion
tall storm
i think techniques should still be with the other two
but merging the 3 rendering musketeers into discussions is a good change 
river hull
purity is a weird one but I like that the most specific are at the bottom because they'd probably get the least traffic
sorting by traffic descending might be the way to go really
twin maple
maths would not be the last one then
tranquil tree
too much to read here, but I'm going to ask for an archival rather than deletion of most channels
search history contains neat things spread over multiple channels
frosty forge
Technically we archive most everything, it's just the recycling bin is set of mod-visible.
I'd set up a different suggestion & ask for real-only access to archived channels if you want to continue to search things said in channels we no longer use.
quiet grail
deccer please reorder showcase wip and your-projects so that they are together pls pls
lapis solar
I think #retro should be renamed #legacy, keep the 3dfx role for fun tho.
carmine elbow
The "meta" category for server stuff would be another small cleanup
whole barn
While I understand the argument, imo the answer is that it really doesn't matter, you probably can post your question in any one of those and get a fine response, as most people read most channels I think
carmine elbow
the conversation will contain different people though ๐
whole barn
The channels are just meant to be a coarse binning of discussion into different places like the graphics-1 graphics-2 graphics-3 but with bias towards a certain topic
Yes it's true, but the question is whether the difference is big enough to warrant actually deleting/merging channels
It'll never be perfect, just good enough to spread the discussion out enough for conversations to not step on each other
It's not as if people go to jail for using the wrong channel and although I agree that immediately telling someone "wrong channel" is off putting, it really doesn't happen that often
carmine elbow
yep, I have a different bias on the binning for sure
north venture
Can we rename #opengl to C++-Help ?
frosty forge
I think <#1109587162040635562> should be renamed #legacy, keep the 3dfx role for...
#retro-programming? For all your classic gamedev needs (some of which do not fit into #software-rasterization because stuff like Glide was hardware but is very much a retro thing now).
wraith harbor
i doubt retro-programming will see much usage some time from now so maybe it could be merged into software-rasterization with another name?
but its hard to come up with a good & short name
even software-rasterization is kinda long
merge reaction-roles with welcome (not sure if that will work or will reset stuff, but we could try that)
also i'm not sure whether this has been mentioned already, but at least community/partnered servers have the ability to have a rules/"select your roles" specific menu
like this
not sure of the details of setting that up tho, just know that it exists
wraith harbor
vital steppe
i know my opinion probably doesnt hold much value but id really be happy if some sort of retro channel like glide in this case would exist
wraith harbor
yeah i also think it would be cool, i don't know if people would use it but theorically it'd rock
river hull
if you just wait long enough the current channels will become the retro channel
vital steppe
just saying cuz even though we went completly off the topic of glide it was really nice talking about all sorts of retro stuff in that channel
its like a channel was born where i finally had something to talk about or add to the conversation
frosty forge
Lots of eg Saturn or GBA stuff get discussed currently in #software-rasterization that would be a good fit for a retro channel. Or maybe (as suggested above) merging both these things into a single channel as they often live together.
wraith harbor
#retro-techniques perhaps?
tranquil tree
i doubt retro-programming will see much usage some time from now so maybe it cou...
opposed to #retro ? which has 2 people (apparently) ๐
you'd go from 2 to.. probably still 2 but maybe 3
wraith harbor
yeah so we combine all of these together
it's still nice to have a retro & software rendering channel, its interesting stuff
whole barn
I don't think software rasterization should be renamed
I don't know what it's like now but I muted it long ago because it had so much traffic
carmine elbow
these days if i see software-rasterization i'm thinking nanite, not gba
whole barn
It's like its own server with its own ecosystem of users and projects in there and I wouldn't disturb it
Maybe it's died down a bit since Emmir moved the development progress of King's Crook to another server but I still wouldn't disturb it
The stuff that goes on in there is different enough from the rest of the server that it definitely deserves its own sanctuary
lethal stump
I like art-stuff as is. ๐
river hull
these days if i see software-rasterization i'm thinking nanite, not gba
software rasterization to me is writing a hobby CPU rasterizer, which is what I see people doing occasionally
it doesn't strike me as particularly retro
but I also don't know much about retro software rasterizers
whole barn
Yeah all the projects I've ever seen in there are hobby CPU rasterizers, I don't agree that software rasterization has become more closely associated with nanite
Although I could see where that perception might come from if you travel in circles where people talk about the cutting edge of graphics tech a lot
King's Crook is really cool if you guys haven't seen it yet, btw: https://kingscrook.itch.io/kings-crook
Emmir doesn't discuss it here as much as he used to but it's very neat
ornate estuary
perhaps rename software rasterization to software rendering?
to avoid nanite confusion
carmine elbow
Although I could see where that perception might come from if you travel in circ...
small triangles are a hot topic
see also the frostbite hair stuff
lapis solar
to avoid nanite confusion
There is no confusion, and if there is then it'll be quickly corrected by the regulars of that channel.
north venture
Confusion will be answered with a public execution
There canโt be confusion if theyโre dead
sharp meteor
as someone who only comes here for the news, resources and opengl channel, I love when people tell others to move their discussion out of opengl
makes it easier to follow the relevant discussions and saves me time
ideally even delete those messages after they moved their discussion
young timber
This thread is massive. Could yalls create individual suggestions for the things you want changed?
rigid obsidian
This thread is massive. Could yalls create individual suggestions for the things...
see pins
tall oracle
i don't think having one thread with like 42 unrelated suggestions is useful. it doesn't give us anything concrete to act on. that's also not how this channel was meant to be used either.
i think at this point, whoever would like to see a specific thing happen should create a suggestion for it so that we can look and vote on it separately.
rigid obsidian
i think at this point, whoever would like to see a specific thing happen should ...
tall oracle
that doesn't change anything about the fact that i don't have any idea what to do with or about this information. and i don't think anyone else does either. ๐คทโโ๏ธ
rigid obsidian
ok
tall oracle
dunno, maybe it's just me. but i certainly don't know what to do with that ^^
it's fine to discuss and stuff, but at some point, we need to break out some actual suggestions to consider and act upon.
otherwise this will just linger here and nothing will happen
rigid obsidian
maybe its also just me
but the pin has some thoughts, questions, topics to discuss
tall oracle
sure, that's fine. but all i'm seeing is a channel with a thousand messages worth of debate and 2 upvotes ^^
rigid obsidian
hence the link to the pins
tall oracle
so what do we do about the pins?
tall oracle
just saying, i think whoever would like to actually see a specific thing that was discussed here happen should just open a suggestion for that specific thing.
otherwise, nothing is gonna happen as far as i can tell
rigid obsidian
and then have 20 suggestions
rigid obsidian
and people complain "ahwhjwhugh too many suggestions, we will do 2 at max now"
tall oracle
so what do you propose instead?
rigid obsidian
discuss the few points in the first pin
and then either "no i like as it is" or "ye we can do that"
or "needs more discussion with the frogs"
idk
frosty forge
This was a good thread for talking things out (some of which led to immediate implementation). Now we're looking for any users still not satisfied with the current state of things to break out specific requests & collect enough upvotes to show community support for us to implement it.
rigid obsidian
idk why i am trying to defend this thread ๐
4 mods were part of the discussion here iirc
anyway i cant join modtalk am in a super loud environment atm
tall oracle
no worries. we were just talking about this thread in modtalk and what to do about it, and nobody really knows what to do about it. so i suggested that maybe having a massive bulk suggestion of unrelated things isn't the most effective way to go about this ๐
anyways
rigid obsidian
then bring the single items up which are unclear
tall oracle
i'd just suggest that someone who was actually involved in the discussion here and would like a specific change to be implemented should just open a separate suggestion for that specific thing so it can be dealt with following the normal process.
rigid obsidian
the questee is in the thread name
young timber
@ Jasper make individual suggestions
frosty forge
And with only two upvotes, the current thinking would be "nice suggestion, now get people to vote for it before we do anything."
rigid obsidian
i think the discussion was more imporatant and peeps treated this thread like an ordinary channel forgetting about the up/downdoots
frosty forge
Yep, so breaking out any specific areas which haven't been implemented into things to vote on should speed up the process.
tall oracle
as i said, there is currently nothing concrete to act upon here. at least as far as i can see. and i would say the onus is on whoever actually wants some of these changes implemented to present smth concrete to be implemented. i don't think it's reasonable to expect the mod team to now go through this entire debate and factor out concrete items to act upon. that'd be exactly the opposite of what #1027528776717975592 is all about ๐คทโโ๏ธ
frosty forge
People can reference back into messages in this thread to avoid duplicating content (while breaking out actionable short suggestions with one target).
rigid obsidian
and im sorry for being abrasive but i dont understand why this is such a weird problem
just a heavier suggestion than just having a new emoji added
but fair enough
tall oracle
maybe i misunderstand, is this only about reorganizing the channels?
because it seemed like this was about more than that
rigid obsidian
yes
tall oracle
k
rigid obsidian
the big chungus of discussion was whether to keep/notmerge channels and why
tall oracle
k^^
rigid obsidian
because certain channels make sense as standalones, like software-renderererer
tall oracle
well then i guess i misunderstood
i thought there was other stuff here too, not just reorganizing the channels
tall oracle
i thought there were also rule changes and whatnot included in this suggestion ^^
rigid obsidian
not that i remember
rigid obsidian
hence the link to the pins my point
tall oracle
yeah i misunderstood the pins ^^
tall oracle
regarding merging channels, i'd probably ask the question whether #wip, #showcase, and #experiments couldn't all just be one thing?
they seem all pretty related
and i'm not sure there's so much traffic in each of them that having three channels just to show cool stuff makes sense
it was also suggested in modtalk that we retire #vr-ar
lucid karma
#experiments seems like a very interesting channel, I don't see how to merge it to #showcase
rigid obsidian
@here(sorry for the booperino) but might make sense since the mods are discussing this topic atm
lucid karma
#wip I think should be pretty good to be merged into #showcase
quiet grail
<#714940749707214890> I think should be pretty good to be merged into <#39026400...
i said that before
but
they said that its like a chat version of showcase or something
frosty forge
WIP promotes people to post things not ready for Showcase. Also it has discussions while Showcase it a "pure" channel with slowmode. Anything too broken for WIP goes to bug collective.
last moth
Also merging #questions and #1019726067851862097
river hull
iirc the consensus was wip is a multi-post channel that doesn't get added to the showcase images
lucid karma
That's good as well
tall oracle
WIP promotes people to post things not ready for Showcase. Also it has discussio...
i'd say just have everyone post stuff in showcase ๐คทโโ๏ธ
river hull
and experiments is ๐ so however interesting it is... it's kinda taking up space
quiet grail
i'd say just have everyone post stuff in showcase ๐คทโโ๏ธ
same
ornate estuary
wip i assume is a casual showcase channel
tranquil tree
iirc there was discussion before #wip was a thing because #showcase was being used as #wip ?
tall oracle
wip i assume is a casual showcase channel
yeah, but do we really need a non-casual showcase?
tranquil tree
which resulted in its creation
tall oracle
that's the thing i'm wondering about
ornate estuary
yeah, but do we really need a non-casual showcase?
probably not since thats now #1019722539116802068
probably, thats just my opinion
tranquil tree
hmm yeah I guess that does change things
tall oracle
dunno, i sense a lot of redundancy there, like, if the goal is to remove channels then merging those two would seem like the most obvious choice to me
river hull
yeah but your-projects is longform and requires people to go out of their way to see your thread
which is just the OP images at best (which depends on how well you formatted your OP)
(which is also not pinned because discord sucks so good luck finding it after 13k messages)
ornate estuary
yeah ๐ฆ
tranquil tree
I think #frogshed-๐ is a useless channel hides
ornate estuary
I think <#908076591547052032> is a useless channel *hides*
river hull
the short answer is that there was a big discussion yet almost every channel serves a distinct purpose
tall oracle
like, #showcase gets about 1.5 posts a day or smth. it's not like there's so much traffic in either of these two that it would get swampedโฆ
river hull
a big issue isn't just PPD, it's clarity
showcase is basically a straight gallery channel
wip is an image -> discussion fluid channel
tall oracle
i honestly don't see the difference
river hull
showcase is also kinda the crown jewel of the server, it's what lurkers and new users check to see shiny gems
tranquil tree
I think we should merge #archived-low-level / #archived-high-level though they're pretty much underused and maybe even merge #lang-dev into it.. though I do think a C/C++ channel could be relevant (and I guess add Rust for the evangelists)
ornate estuary
@tall oracle i kinda get what you mean yeah, while #showcase has threads, #wip 's replies are in the same channel, but virtually they are the same
river hull
yeah the only useless channels I see are low-level and high-level, although in the discussion I was assured low-level serves a purpose
which leaves high-level dangling
last moth
I think we should merge <#347895708054978560> / <#339498187096195072> though t...
#programming-general ?
tall oracle
like, imo #archived-low-level and #archived-high-level have a much more distinct difference than #wip and #showcase
last moth
or is that too bikeshed-y
tranquil tree
yeah maybe..
tranquil tree
or is that too bikeshed-y
it does serve a more rigid purpose than bikeshed though
river hull
C/C++ general ๐
tranquil tree
I do kind of want to avoid.. that
last moth
Yeah but I heard some time ago that bikeshed originated from such a channel 
tranquil tree
atleast unless people can behave
tall oracle
i'm fine with merging #archived-low-level and #archived-high-level into some general programming channel though
they don't see too much traffic
river hull
but I think even that is weird
what is a general programming channel except either a question channel or a bikeshed
tall oracle
questions about programming ๐คทโโ๏ธ
carmine elbow
i don't really care about expansion proliferation of #showcase #wip #1019722539116802068 because discussions don't tend to happen in there, but it seems somewhat superfluous
tall oracle
tbh, it could just be #general
tranquil tree
what I am also wondering if there's channels that are largely post-only and end up not being viewed by people to consume? ( #the-bug-collective for example)
frosty forge
I think we should merge <#347895708054978560> / <#339498187096195072> though t...
This was discussed above. They're definitely on the list for recycling & expanding the definitions of other channels to cover it.
buoyant walrus
This is an absolutely massive thread that I can't keep up with
carmine elbow
suggestion: Smick Dibbly would like to have (much) less discussion on this thread
frosty forge
Read up/down here for recent channel recycling thoughts.
tall oracle
it's just, looking at our channel list, i see three channels that all have the purpose of showing off cool stuff. sure, there are minute differences in their specific purposes. but given the amount of traffic that these three channels see, i'm having a hard time justifying having an entire three of them.
frosty forge
This is an absolutely massive thread that I can't keep up with
If you want a specific change, break it out into a different suggestion to avoid it getting clogged up in this super-thread full of discussion not actions.
tall oracle
in fact, arguably it's 4 even
if you include #the-bug-collective
dunno
that seems very excessive to me
tranquil tree
if you include <#905926809789562890>
yeah like I said I wonder if people actually look at that channel, or if they just only post to it
tall oracle
and i'm not saying we shouldn't have a place for those things here. we should. it's cool and fun stuff. i just don't feel like we need to have four different places for this stuff.
maybe two should be way sufficient?
carmine elbow
for reference, my original point of view and reason i pushed for this was that i felt discussions would have more depth and involve more people if there were less individual topics, because there's always overlap between the topics
river hull
iirc deccer posted some kind of basic stat panel he had access to and showcase is one of the most popular
I forget how bug collective stacked up
but people do 100% lurk and looking cool shinies people post
and I think keeping showcase pruned preserves that quality
tranquil tree
maybe its a bit too extreme for a merge (Then again.. threads can exist..)
#gpu-compute #graphics-techniques #ray-tracing #software-rasterization kind of feel to be in the same trend... ?
tall oracle
then we leave showcase alone and merge #wip, #the-bug-collective, and #experiments
tall oracle
maybe its a bit too extreme for a merge (Then again.. threads can exist..)
<#374...
imo that's too extreme. these channels do serve very separate purposes imo
river hull
yeah and they seem to have separate active posters and convos going
they're all active channels
tall oracle
if we were to remove one of them, i guess #graphics-techniques is the least specific one
buoyant walrus
I am wondering, however, are these changes being proposed to address issues/complaints that have come up repeatedly? Is there data/analytics prompting all this discussion? Is this predicting that certain changes may have a positive effect? I just don't know what the motivation is here
tall oracle
it's just to simplify the server structure
tranquil tree
if we were to remove one of them, i guess <#600645448394342402> is the least spe...
I also kind of wonder if #general can just be used for that
tall oracle
yeah
river hull
techniques is one of my favorite channels though
quiet grail
what about the misc channels
tall oracle
i think #archived-high-level, #archived-low-level, and #graphics-techniques could just be retired and all that stuff can just be discussed in #general
river hull
it's where you discuss high level techniques that exist above the realm of a specific API and would get caught in the current being discussed elsewhere
buoyant walrus
it's just to simplify the server structure
And people are generally in agreement that the server isn't simple enough?
river hull
that was the dilemma though
people, myself included, think that
but once you go through the actual channels you find they have their own communities, niches, and valid use cases
even if its not reflected in the channels' PPD
carmine elbow
fyi, the last time this came up, it was argued that #general was a catchall for noobs and that #graphics-techniques was more for people who knew what they were talking about, and i can admit that
tall oracle
And people are generally in agreement that the server isn't simple enough?
that's why this thread was started after all ^^
carmine elbow
#graphics-techniques being "real #general" makes sense to me
tall oracle
dunno about that
river hull
and that's why the discussion is so long, if it was so easy to prune this thread wouldn't be huge
buoyant walrus
that's why this thread was started after all ^^
Okay, just needed some perspective on what ultimately motivated this in the first place
carmine elbow
just summarized what we talked about last time. i also don't know if i agree with it, but i can see the argument
tranquil tree
to prevent future additional channels, maybe rename #retro to #legacy-apis
tall oracle
like, as far as i'm concerned, we don't need to really change anything
frosty forge
Glide was a temp channel for funsies & chats.
river hull
yeah minor shuffles were made as a result of the last round of convo
quiet grail
glide being its own channel is weird but ok
tranquil tree
Glide was a temp channel for funsies & chats.
I mean I can see it having a place though but not as its own whole thing
tall oracle
well, #retro is just a meme channel
carmine elbow
the shuffles helped
tranquil tree
anyways in the end I don't totally care about it all, just throwing my thoughts in here
frosty forge
Maybe it implies a need for a retro channel (distinct from #software-rasterization, where some retro stuff goes on because it's software rast based like GBA etc).
carmine elbow
getting rid of #archived-high-level and #archived-low-level could make sense but i don't think there's a strong sense of urgency about it
tall oracle
looking further down, i guess #job-postings and #1087212625022169098 could be merged?
carmine elbow
lol leak
tranquil tree
No access?
tall oracle
getting rid of <#339498187096195072> and <#347895708054978560> could make sense ...
yeah i don't really see a reason either tbh
frosty forge
The jobs areas are getting reworked at some point. That's an existing suggestion.
tall oracle
ah ok
quiet grail
looking further down, i guess <#664926130402230284> and <#1087212625022169098> c...
no access?
river hull
yeah
tranquil tree
looking further down, i guess <#664926130402230284> and <#1087212625022169098> c...
whatever 2nd channel you posted (not job-postings) isn't visible to the common folk
tall oracle
yeah it's empty anyways ^^
carmine elbow
i assume it's a channel which is going to replace #job-postings
tall oracle
i was just wondering why it's there xD
river hull
thats' exactly what you'd want us to think
frosty forge
Mods posting hidden channels (we see a lot more than you). 
tall oracle
and i guess #1020406707488313444 and #1020409275262173235 could also be merged?
tranquil tree
I mean its under their own #664940297855172641 group which makes it easy to hide and ignore
tall oracle
at least i'm not sure having a separate channel just for resume reviews is necessary here
river hull
yeah its all the way at the bottom so it could go either way
tall oracle
given that the general #1020406707488313444 already doesn't see much traffic
river hull
they're ultra low traffic and most importantly both thread channels, which makes them less harmful to interleave
frosty forge
Ye, hopefully we keep that volume low so could be merged into career forum.
carmine elbow
fyi my only other suggestion for reshuffling is to move #gp-github #report-spam #reaction-roles #1027528776717975592 down to the bottom of the server list
in a new "meta" category. #bot-commands could also go there
tall oracle
the problem with that is that it would require another category
river hull
do they make you pay by the category or sometihng?
carmine elbow
i dont think #gp-github needs to be the first thing someone sees
tall oracle
no but why create a whole new category that serves the same purpose?
carmine elbow
so that it can be at the bottom
tall oracle
tbqh, i'm not sure #gp-github needs to exist at all ^^
it's not like there's anything in there anyone would ever look at?
i mean, it's nice to see activity on the github
but yeah
it's definitely very low priority stuff
couldn't #reaction-roles stuff be done via the id:browse thing?
i think some servers have buttons for that on their welcome screen?
river hull
yeah #gp-github strikes me as coming from "wow cool I can connect github to discord" over anything useful
tall oracle
yeah, on another server, they have #Channels & Roles that does both
so i guess we could do that too and merge #reaction-roles into id:browse
river hull
on the point of the categories though, one of the ideas we discussed in the last iteration of the discussion was factoring in interest/frequency in the ordering (and noob catcher channels like #questions )
adding another category doesn't hurt if it improves your cache hits overall
tall oracle
i very much dislike the idea of "noob catcher" channels.
i don't think we should promote having a two class society
river hull
they come from a place of pragmatic usefulness
tall oracle
i've not seen evidence of that tbh
river hull
I have, read the discord more
#questions and #opengl are so pointedly different in post quality, style, poster age, level of depth, etc
calling it a two class society is a bit melodramatic, you filter posts/users until they age into posting better quality posts in the correct channels from having lurked/used the forum more
it's basic stuff
rigid obsidian
re the whole discord welcome nonsense: we are too small for it to make sense
for some reason they bind numbers and active messages to what channel can go in where there, its super useless right now, and we would need 100% more activity - @tall oracle not sure if you still there
river hull
though I do like the idea of the breakup/reorder of this section overall
because I think very quickly you run out of reasons to scroll up that high and your view stays down
rigid obsidian
yeh
river hull
I sometimes forget the suggestions section exists because its higher than I need to scroll
rigid obsidian
the idea was to merge related-servers and reaction-roles into welcome but i am not sure how well carl will react to the move, it might fuck up all existing roles
river hull
I think I didn't even notice the questions channel moved out of my FOV for a while...
tall oracle
the idea was to merge related-servers and reaction-roles into welcome but i am n...
that also works
rigid obsidian
if there is consensus for related-servers into welcome then i can just do it right now and yoink related servers
tall oracle
my one concern would be that there are a lot of related servers
rigid obsidian
we can also experiment with a dummy reaction thing and try-out-moving it over to see if an actual move would work
tall oracle
so putting that all into welcome would push the rules section way up
rigid obsidian
i mean nobody is reading any of this and the ones reading it will find it
tall oracle
xD
river hull
yeah related servers you read like... once if you're curious for more
ornate estuary
related servers is alright
rigid obsidian
but im also ok with separate channels like we have right now
another idea re those was to move it way down into some meta category
river hull
no one reads the top section but putting your "traditionally intro" channels all the way at the bottom is a little too new wave for my taste
tall oracle
i think it would probably make sense to maybe prune #related-servers a bit in general. though i'm not sure what sort of agreements we have with the various servers.
rigid obsidian
we have 0 agreements nor obligations
tall oracle
k^^
rigid obsidian
i think its fine as is, we just move it down the channel list
tall oracle
there are a few servers in there with like 100 members and stuff, not sure how much sense it makes to specifically advertise thoseโฆ
rigid obsidian
soft rule is 500+ peeps
tall oracle
k^^
rigid obsidian
but the smaller ones are from our frogs
river hull
vuk discord btfo
rigid obsidian
ok since its only you dot
ill just create a meta category
and move it way down and move related server sin there
tall oracle
fine with me
rigid obsidian
report-spam as well
tall oracle
tbh, i'd leave #report-spam at the top so that people actually see it
river hull
yeah
rigid obsidian
fine by me
tall oracle
though we can move #1027528776717975592 and #gp-github down there
rigid obsidian
reaction roles?
tall oracle
if we also merge #reaction-roles into #welcome-and-rules or id:browse then that should clean the top up a bit already
rigid obsidian
browse channels doesnt work, we too smol
rigid obsidian
we should try with dummy reaction role thing first, but ye
tall oracle
i'd maybe also suggest renaming #1019722539116802068 to #community-projects or smth. that sounds a bit more public ๐
#1019722539116802068 makes me feel like i'm not supposed to look in there because it's everyone just doing their thing ๐
tall oracle
and maybe even move the voice channels a bit further up?
dunno
i don't hang out in there normally, but they are at the very bottom now
maybe also move #d3d11-tutorial-wip up into the community content section? and maybe retire the voice channel?
no idea, just a random thought
rigid obsidian
doable done
need to wait for carl to pickup the new dummy roles for testing this moving thing
tall oracle
apart from that, i guess #vr-ar may be dormant but having it doesn't really hurt. i think i'd actually vote for just keeping it for the odd case someone actually has a question about that sort of thing ^^
rigid obsidian
id also kinda keep it, but thats just me
id rather have compute dissolve into something graphics-technieuqs perhaps? idk
tall oracle
as for #archived-high-level and #archived-low-level, i dunno. i do feel like having them makes sense. but i'm also fine with just retiring them and moving those discussions to #general or smth.
rigid obsidian
idea was to have highlevel merge into techneeks
tall oracle
#gpu-compute does see compute-specific stuff on a daily basis. i don't think i would merge that
rigid obsidian
oki
tall oracle
graphics techniques seems like a very different thing to me
rigid obsidian
low-level is also kinda just general not muh traffic either
tall oracle
i'd say if we want to remove channels in discussions, i'd retire #archived-low-level and #archived-high-level
rigid obsidian
fair
tall oracle
re the pins, i think #bikeshed-๐ and #frogshed-๐ should stay where they are. i'm not a fan of moving them into discussions.
tall oracle
yeah, we keep them ofc. but they are not on-topic so they better stay under misc ^^
#questions and #1019726067851862097 are both quite active it seems to me, so i'd keep them as they are
lucid karma
rename #bikeshed-๐ to #scp-containment-facility
rigid obsidian
pelase updoot a few
re question/forum i had an idea to temporarily hide questions, to divert more traffic to the forum - (like a week or so, see how it goes)
tall oracle
i'd move #d3d11-tutorial-wip towards the bottom of community content though. i don't think it's more important than news and showcase ๐
rigid obsidian
re order i just ordered alphabetically, but ye why not
tall oracle
re question/forum i had an idea to temporarily hide questions, to divert more tr...
re that, we have both a text and forum channel on another server and it works quite well. some questions suite themselves more for one form than the other. and some people seem to prefer one over the other. so i think having both is pretty fine.
rigid obsidian
oki
ah i missread
so all good re questions
moved core-review into community too
tall oracle
hm, dunno, that's not really community content. i'd say maybe this fits better into discussions or help?
tall oracle
maybe just retire it ^^
rigid obsidian
actually i dont mind either
tall oracle
or leave it down there where it was xD
i just wouldn't want to move too much low-traffic stuff to the top now that we've cleaned up a bit ๐
anyways, imma go dinner ^^
rigid obsidian
moved it down in discussions
tall oracle
i guess it's looking good
rigid obsidian
if i can move the new reacts then ill move the reacts over to welcome and yoink reaction roles
ah
we cant
you cant change the channel after the fact
thats what i thought
tall oracle
i guess @young timber would have to take a look at that? no idea how this works with carlbot
rigid obsidian
i am in carl's dashboard
rigid obsidian
tall oracle
you really can't just remove the react role channel and make a new one?
rigid obsidian
that would yoink all ppls reacts
tall oracle
tbh, i'd consider it worth it
rigid obsidian
people will not lose their roles
tall oracle
to yoink and have everyone resubscribe once
rigid obsidian
but the reaction toggle will be fucked, and wont reflect the numbers
rigid obsidian
clicking it again a few times to "reset" back should work but not worth the hassle i guess
tall oracle
i wish discord would finally add the option to move messagesโฆ
rigid obsidian
yeah
tall oracle
people been asking for that for literally years
rigid obsidian
everything primary keys is ids anyway so should be ez
tall oracle
yeah
rigid obsidian
stupid pfp annotations are more important i guess ๐
rigid obsidian
bon appetit
tall oracle
thx
rigid obsidian
updating channel topics (without touching the few with sarcastic and historically relevant descriptions)
@lucid karma do you still see #archived-high-level and #archived-low-level ?
lucid karma
Yes
tall oracle
thinking about it, I'd probably move #graphics-techniques up a bit actually. topic-wise it's more general than #gpu-compute
and probably move #lang-dev down a bit since it's not graphics related
river hull
while we're here, does it make senz that only MVP+ can post in #graphics-resources but anyone can post in #graphics-news
tall oracle
I guess it kinda does? #graphics-resources are supposed to be somewhat reliable quality stuffs, so limiting posting to some concept of a member who's judgement the community trusts makes sense.
news otoh can be anything to do with graphics that someone might find interesting
rigid obsidian
and probably move <#892419151967158302> down a bit since it's not graphics relat...
arguable... if you think about shader languages ๐
re gp news/resources i would be ok with open gp resources too
north venture
thinking about it, I'd probably move <#600645448394342402> up a bit actually. to...
Just please donโt touch gpu compute, I like it where it is :p everything else can move just not that channel
tropic perch
probably not since thats now <#1019722539116802068>
maybe i am just getting old but i canโt keep up with the volume, I generally can only keep up with wip, showcase, bug-collective and frogshed
waxen haven
whole barn
Great you can just read the prior several thousand messages to get up to speed on what we decided lol
young timber
Please create new suggestions for specific changes you'd like to see
whole barn
This was already acted on by reordering the channels so that the less important ones were at the bottom