Adding Historical SPAs and Assault Tanks

[acoustic shoal]

Hello everyone, it's me yet again. The fact I have to make this post is quite frankly ridiculous but here we are, post Update 19.

In case anyone has been living under a rock, Team17 added "SPAs" in the latest update. However, due to their lack of proper research, they have mixed up the roles of an SPA and an Assault Tank.

I'd heavily recommend to Team17 that the roles are fixed and are implemented properly. I've heard rumours that the only reason Team17 didn't add the official SPA vehicles are that they were to be "too hard to balance and develop", which I for one find is utter nonsense.

Finding the cheapest and easiest way to implement something even when it is historically wrong is unacceptable, especially in a World War 2 title that has claimed to be "historically accurate" since the title was purchased from Black Matter. Even if that statement's questionable at times.

The whole purpose of Self-Propelled Artillery vehicles is to provide heavy ordinance support on the move. Therefore, if anyone was to complain about their "open-topness" and how easy it is to die while crewing one, then you'd be doing something wrong if enemy forces are harassing you enough to cause annoyance or use something that isn't, like the Panzerwerfer for example.

I'd recommend making the current "fake SPAs" into their appropriate Assault Gun role, so that they can fit under a sub-category under the tank role. They can be infantry support tanks as they were in the real war, made for medium-close range support to kill enemy infantry and destroy emplacements.

Also, please make the regular Artillery roles use normal Infantry uniforms, because it looks ridiculous with tankers running around as Artillery guys.

Attached below are examples of which Tanks are counted as Self-Propelled Artillery and Assault Gun Tanks, with their appropriate name tags below it. Implement these as shown, and this time please do some research!

Categories and vehicle types below:

[wild girder]

I agree with every word written, but I don't think this is the result of poor research by the developers. I simply believe that they tried to solve the recon/arty gameplay loop the wrong way. Let me explain.

They could have added the original SPAs with open tops BUT:
-Gunners operating on open tops SPA would still take fire from enemy recon units.
-SPAs are unable to fire directly at nearby enemies and threats, making them vulnerable to enemy recon tanks.

This way the gameplay loop problem, in their opinion, would not have been solved.

The problem, however, is that taking assault tanks and magically "transforming" them into SPAs is an even worse choice. Both in gameplay and historical accuracy.

In Italy we have a saying that goes "when the patch is worse than the hole".

These SPAs, as they have been inserted into the game, are completely useless both as artillery and as assault tanks.
It's not a balance issue, it's the underlying idea that's wrong.
The whole thing needs to be redesigned.

The best thing is to make these new assault tanks, indeed, ASSAULT TANKS.
Anti-infantry tanks, with high HE damage and large explosion radius but low hull health.
And they must cost relatively little in fuel.
These assault tanks are cool and a nice addition to the game.

There are other ways to fix the recon/arty gameplay loop.
For example:

-Adding the original SPAs (wouldn't completely fix the loop though).
-Making the first enemy sector inaccessible until it becomes the active one (It might fix the loop, but it depends on the map).
-And finally, MORTARS.
Use the same mechanics that are already present in the game for AT guns.
The arty support leaves the supplies box, the arty engineer builds the mortar and the observer calls the shots.
And every 5 minutes they would have a new box of supplies to build a new mortar (which would replace the previous one) in another position to avoid being spotted.

The solutions exist, they just need to have the courage to implement them.

[acoustic shoal]

Completely agreed. No idea why they didn’t come up with these ideas to begin with tbh.

[upbeat wing]

Agree

[barren furnace]

[scenic viper]

[quasi nova]

The loop can be broken with open top vehicles if recon players would actually recon instead of just do partisan work. Example: Recon spots SPA open top, maybe shoot the guys and maybe not. either way they should call out the vehicle to command chat so AT or a tank could go after it and they won't need to camp. Previously the loop existed because it was the only way to counter artillery. Now there are more ways.

If recon tanks are an issue, perhaps the position of the SPA or the lack of communication and watchfulness from your team is to blame.

[acoustic shoal]

Exactly. And as i said above, they’re mobile for a reason. If you get shot at while being in position, it isn’t hard to simply move/reposition.

[split badger]

Nah open top vehicles would get farmed by recon. (Source I play spotter almost exclusively) It would be easy to get above them in the many accessible buildings and snipe them or worse case you toss a grenade in them like you can with half tracks. Just do what battlefield did and put a tarp or cover over it to block bullets. Not realistic but weapons handle unrealistically as well so gota make concessions. And make the current vehicles actual support guns. But they’d have to fix he splash damage inconsistencies. Current he is wack when in relation to walls and corners.

I’m totally fine with open tops btw it’s more free kills for me. But saying they have no risks right now when satchels one shot tanks (unrealistic) and AT get 3 rockets now is delusional the current SPA is borderline useless cause it costs munitions.

[acoustic shoal]

As I said above, they’re mobile for a reason. If they’re being harassed too much then move and find a quieter more strategic spot. It’s really that simple.

If you’d rather play without that risk then use something like the Panzerwerfer which isn’t open top, or just use arty in HQ.

If it’s that much of a problem then they shouldn’t implement Mobile Artillery at all and keep all arty Commander ability only and just add mortars for regular squads.

Implementing it half assed isn’t the way.

Also I never said there’s no risks. All open top artillery vehicles had risks being used due to vulnerability, but the difference is in the real war they were much further away from the front line which reduced the risk. Meanwhile in HLL they are much closer.

You know what the more I talk about it the more I realise that SPAs don’t work in HLL at all. The maps are just too small.

[quasi nova]

Recon players are the problem with the recon arty loop at that point. People moan about it on static because you're removed from the action and dedicated to a backline objective. I actually liked the concept with removing a recon team/player from the fight at the expense of arty but I digress.

Additionally, why would you take the SPAs into buildings? That's asking for exactly what you do. Smolensk has multiple tiered buildings now which emphasizes this well. Front to the enemy. Sides are also usually quite steep and protected against small arms or at least seeing the infantry inside. I feel they are well protected enough if positioned correctly.

I also agree with your net covering idea. It could be a base addition to the models that protects against grenades from the top and give more shadow to the infantry, hiding them from easy targeting.

[acoustic shoal]

I mean to be fair, the clue is in the name. A recon unit is meant for Reconnaissance, not camping arty for 2 hours.

The rear is really the only weak-spot on an SPA, as that's where the armour is at it's lowest in height. The rest of the angles you can't see much unless you have high ground above it.

As for the covering idea, it might work. There was an early version of the Hummel for example that did have a wire mesh above to prevent nades being thrown into the compartment.

That's only the Hummel though, I don't even know if any of the US and British SPAs had any.

[granite marsh]

I think the team didnt use proper SPAs due to extra effort which needs to be taken to animate players inside the vehicle (fire animation, reload, seat change, crew death and idling, extra hitboxes etc). That is why we dont have proper interior or anims for current tanks, just those periscopes. Its cheap but sufficient. I fully agree to shift these SPA to general tank crew and use them maybe for demolition job (clearing pathways, destroying bridges or buildings/defenses). I think introducing some destruction level would be nicer than extending artillery options. Its FPS, not bombing competition...

[plush hollow]

[zenith agate]

[obsidian terrace]

[acoustic shoal]

Bump.