Bayonets

[delicate pulsar]

Would love to see this added

I mean come on.. who doesnt want to lead a charge?!?

[coarse harness]

It would be fun, but to have some balance (no instant bayonetting after turning around, lol) it would have to only be usable after sprinting for a couple of seconds, leaving you vulnerable for a couple of as you have your weapon in a position you can't use it in for a couple of seconds

[velvet pebble]

I would love to be able to Fix bayonets and use them in close contacts

[serene arch]

Bayonets might be good for balance if and when the Japanese come out

[timber scroll]

[olive coral]

would love to see as a foil to the knife: where knife might have a wide slashing hit cone but short range, bayonet has the small stab cone but longer reach. being able to fix them in combat would be great

[cyan rover]

it would have to only be usable after sprinting for a couple of seconds

Why? There is no reason why a man standing still cannot thrust his bayonet into people.

[delicate pulsar]

We need this to gain traction 😭

[full beacon]

I dont know how will they maki it with this type of runnig in game but it will be great

[surreal sierra]

I really like the idea as it brings more value to standard issue rifles. All the idea needs is some form of slight nerf so that everyone won't be having it equipped all the time and it would be one hell of a rounded idea. There would also have to be some sort of buff/perk for the standard melee weapon in order to keep it from effectively being replaced. Any ideas?

[sick plank]

I have been asking santa for this for a long time...but I think it would be too much of a challenge for them. bayonet charge is one thing but then you have to consider can the defender block it if they see it coming? can you use the butt of the rifle to knock down a player? does the rifle shoot worse with it on? Then when samurai swords come into play as well!! I would love this addition if it could be done well and kept historically accurate. Do we add rifle grenades too then?

[cyan rover]

but i think it would be too much of a challenge for them

Many other games have successfully implemented bayonets. There is no reason why it can’t be done here.

[pearl flame]

Bayonets were used in WW2, but not on a large scale. They could implement it, especially for the Japanese, but in the EOT, there were not many bayonet charges, I understand why they aren't in the game, at least for now

[olive coral]

i think longer ads and smaller area of effect would be a good fit for the bayonet, while it also has a longer forward range. with the standard melee weapon you have a wide sweeping cone where you’ll hit the enemy, but have to be closer. i see how it’s not in now since in all the time i’ve played HLL i’ve only ever been in a situation where could’ve used a bayonet a couple times

but if/when Japan shows up they will definitely be needed. the amount of cover/cqb combat those maps will have will make it a great addition

[cyan rover]

Complete and utter nonsense. It was offical Red Army doctrine to enter into melee combat after closing distance in an assault. Almost every soldier of every army was issued a bayonet, and if you so wish, you should have the option to equip said bayonet on your rifle in the game, since you’re carrying it anyway.

[surreal sierra]

Nice

[pearl flame]

Dude, chill. I said it was used, but not on a large scale as in WW1. Most soldiers of western armies or Germans did not equip a bayonet, they used it as a knife, if they ever used it. Just because the Red Army doctrine said it (which I knew) is not a reason for representation. Even the Red Army prefered shovels or knifes in WW2 after the experience in the Winter War. Bayonets were outdated

[cyan rover]

Bayonets were used in WW2, but not on a large scale.

It was standard Soviet Doctrine, used en-masse throughout the entire Eastern Front. The Eastern Front is the single largest military confrontation in history. The scale literally doesn't get any larger.
And this is to say nothing of the entire war in the pacific and in China, where bayonets charges were extremely common.

[delicate pulsar]

A bayonet was also standard gear for US paratroopers

[pearl flame]

Yes, but: We have only three eastern front maps (there should be more though, i wanna play gramps simulator), but thats not a reason to give every German, British or American player a bayonet, only maybe the rilfeman. Also, I have never said that they shouldn't be in the PTO, but I do not think China will be representated. But please, learn to understand my comments and try to argue properly

[coarse harness]

Well aware

but considering they might do quite a bit of damage

simply balance.

But other than that if balance isn't in issue you should be able to go to town on it

[lofty holly]

When Japan is added, you can Banzai charge into my MG.

[cyan rover]

You stated that bayonets weren’t used on a large scale, which was a complete lie, and i refuted it.

That’s not a reason to give every German, British or American player a bayonet.
Almost every enlisted soldier of every army was issued a bayonet. If the weapon has a bayonet mount, then they should have the ability to mount their bayonet. End of discussion.

[pearl flame]

Yes, but at least in the west, most soldiers didn't use their bayonets. They had them for tradition, but they were barely used for combat. Do you know the famous scene from Band of Brothers?

[delicate pulsar]

Lmfao im an MG main to, dont ruin it (its for us)

[swift bluff]

they used them, but their purpouse were, usually, not those of a bayonet to kill, but just a useful knife. Anyways, they were used like a normal bayonet too (Maori Batallion is the best example i have in mind right now). "If the weapon has a bayonet mount, then they should have the ability to mount their bayonet".

[cyan rover]

I don’t get my historical information from hollywood tv programmes. If the gun has a bayonet mount, you should be able to mount your bayonet. Or are you implying that the devs should implement a “fix bayonets” command for squad leads to yell, so that the squad is forced to mount their bayonets, like would’ve been done in real life?

[pearl flame]

Me neither, but WW2 was not just the Red Army. Most US or German soldiers (most battles ingame are US vs GER) were not using fixed bayonets in WW2, there were few examples of bayonet charges on the western front. Fixing bayonets and charge was an outdated tactic in WW2. For certain guns, a bayonet could be implemented, but not for all

[fading crest]

Yes, this would be an awesome thing. Just imagine that command rings out, clear even through the din of artillery and gunfire, and then it's over the top, through the smoke or up the road

[rose steeple]

Tbh I really don't get what the big deal is, I'd appreciate the ability to mount a bayonet on my weapon in the event that I turn a corner and run right into another guy. Rather than hoping that my hip fired shot is on target I conveniently have a really cool stabby thing on the end of my gun that can solve the problem.

[oak estuary]

Melee overall needs a rework in this game. It is just so damn clunky and inconsistent.

In addition to adding bayonets, id like to change the normal melee to just hitting the enemy with your rifle than instantly drawing a shovel out of thin air.

[pearl flame]

Guys, don't get me wrong, it would be cool, but I'm not sure how this could be implemented in the game, thus, bayonets never played a significant role in WW2, most soldiers used knives or their shovel for melee combat, unlike in WW1, where bayonets played a larger role

[fading crest]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news on that front, but there's several hundred written accounts of the Marines in WW2 using bayonet tactics. As well as almost every parachute regiment, and a large number of troops concentrations within the Russian army

[rose steeple]

It would be implemented very simply, Post Scriptum has a bayonet mounting mechanic, but if T17 is too lazy to actually put in the effort they can just pull a Tanenberg/Verdun and make it so there are separate loadouts where it's already mounted and stays mounted.

As for your point about them never being used, I'd like to point to examples such as the entirety of the PTO, Soviet push tactics, and perhaps most famous of all, at least in the West, Cole's Charge in Normandy. It's really an incredibly simple thing to implement, that'll make melee at least a bit more viable in certain situations.

Edit: @pearl flame I'm well aware what war Verdun and Tanenberg represent, I'm simply using them as an example of how games that can't figure out an actual mounting mechanic can work around the idea. I'm also not saying to put a bayonet on every weapon, that came out of nowhere.

[pearl flame]

Verdun and Tannenberg are WW1 games. Hell let loose is a WW2 game, and in WW2, bayonets were used, yes, but putting a bayonet on every weapon would be just wrong. And yes, we need more melee

[swift bluff]

Having a bayonet would be incredibly helpful. If I’m going into CQC I’d equip a bayonet every time because if I run out of ammo I need a back up, which is what the bayonet was used for in WW2

[fading crest]

Might I present the fact that in Korea, a mere 10 years later, United States Marines, and several other Allied troops rushed Korean and Chinese positions with afixed bayonets. In Iraq British soldiers rushed Taliban positions with bayonets fixed, in Afghanistan United States Marines were kicking in doors and rushing hillside positions with bayonets fixed, troopers of the 501st parachute regiment, 82nd airborne division fought tooth and nail, with fixed bayonets at Bastogne, French light infantry units took on German positions in some of their colonial holdings with fixed bayonets.

A German armored infantry unit, on the outskirts of Stalingrad fought with fixed bayonets against a red army guard unit, fighting till the last man. That Russian Colonel wrote a detailed account on it.

How about operation desert storm? Marines of the 15 Marine Expeditionary Unit from the U.S. took a small airfield with fixed bayonets and unarmored Humvees and no air cover back in 2001....how about the battle of Ia Drang Valley, 7th air cavalry regiment United States army. Rushed enemy positions with fixed bayonets in the valley breakout.

There is ample record of the bayonet, while a great utility item, has been of use as it was intended since it's inception. And continues to do so to today. British, French, German and American troops train with bayonets fixed and are drilled to use them under combat conditions to this day. The implementation of bayonets in HLL would not only be in accordance with the actions fought in both the Great War and WW2, but also those of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel today.

I think we can all agree that any weapon that was used in conjunction with the bayonet in WW2 (Most rifles, the shotgun for the US, and as a stand alone melee weapon) would be of ample use in game

[rose steeple]

Very well said. Bayonets would be a great item to include. Period.

[swift bluff]

Just like real life will they be a tool used all the time? No definitely not. But will it boost confidence in yourself and give you a back up weapon in case of emergency? Yes. Let’s add bayonets

[fading crest]

I'm just gonna say one quick thing...I was always told that a Marine who uses his bayonet in place of his Kbar knife for utility things, is a piss poor Marine.....but then again, my grand dad was a Vietnam Era Marine and a crusty NCO....

[restive dirge]

Have a system where u could equip a bayonet or a shovel that is multipurpose

e.g bayonets can be hand held or attached that add additional melee speed when thrusting and stabbing along with when equipped on the rifle increases range.

The shovel although can be used as a melee weapon is slower when swinging can be also be used to make dirt mounds to create small pieces of cover

[cyan rover]

Why did marines carry Kbar knives as well as bayonets, when they could just carry the bayonet and save weight? They’re functionally identical, it’s just that you can mount one on a rifle, therefore having more utility. Carrying two of the same thing, one just being worse, is redundant.

[fading crest]

The Kbar had a serration on the spine for cutting barbed wire, a steel striker on the pommel that could be used to start fires if the matches were wet, and a razors edge that could be used to shave. The point tapered down allowing for the knife to be used to dig out shrapnel, had a fuller to save weight so was functionally lighter. The bayonets could be used to dig (Scrape) hasty fighting positions in the clay and coral rock of the Japanese held islands. The bayonets were a bit long and heavy for specific jobs the Marines might need to accomplish. That and most Marines preferred the Kbar for fighting close in, or opening Ration tins when their P-38 can openers broke or went missing with their gear during fights

[cyan rover]

The M9 bayonet has most, if not all of those features. As far as i can tell, there is no reason to carry both a knife and a bayonet, when deleting the knife from your kit can save in both weight and expense.

[fading crest]

The Marine Corp was supposed to have a do it all blade in WW2.....they were never issued in large enough numbers. In Vietnam the 7th cav wasn't issued them at all, they had m16 adapted WW2 bayonets. Newer type bayonets are all in one fighting/utility blades

[coarse harness]

Actually, the soldier models do have shovels, surprisingly

(still want bayonets though)

[sick plank]

Just to add to an idea of how and when to implement bayonets in game: I think two cool options could be...1) When a team is loosing badly and have only one strongpoint left. Tat team are then enabled to use bayonets in order to naturally inspire a unit wide charge at the opposing offensive team. This could also be alternated to when an offensive team is is on the last strongpoint and with time running out, they have enough men in capture area to instigate the over-time bonus period...they are then allowed to use bayonets for a last charge at taking the point. 2) Bayonets are only issued to be used when any individual soldier has completely run out of ammo. stopping the potential over use of bayonets or too many people using them which may slow down fire-fight engagements. 3) every class that had them according to historical accuracy has them to use when and where they want to