fedorov avtomat for soviet automatic rifleman

[jovial fulcrum]

👎

[charred zephyr]

No

[neat glacier]

No, maybe in the Winter War as a level 6 weapon. AVS-36 would be a better option for the standard issue in the Winter War. There were little to no automatic rifles on use after 1941.

[livid rose]

Avt 40 or avs36

[regal orbit]

No, they were entirely phased out by the end of the Winter War

[long shale]

Winter War yes, other, no

[proven arrow]

I actually agree, it would help balanced against the OP StG 44. Alternatively, the StG 44 should be removed, but a bunch of Germany only players/wehrabroos are about to object to this proposal.

[limpid helm]

let me get this straight, when you dont get a weapon that was withdrawn from service more than 10 years before the war, without even 5000 units being produced, you want to take out one of the most modern assault rifles at the time that was used on all fronts with almost half a million produced units?

Would make more sense to stack up the soviets with lend and lease Thomies or PPD-40s

[stuck pumice]

I don't think that the STG-44 is all that great. It's sights are huge and obstructs long ranged shots. I think the FG-42s sights are a lot cleaner and easier to make longer ranged shots. Because of the sights, I think it plays less like a true assault rifle and more like a submachine gun on steroids. The Soviets and British have high capacity SMGs that give more firepower than traditional 30 round SMGs, which kind of balances out with the STG-44.

[proven arrow]

The German bias in this game due to the obsene amounts of excessive experimental or limited quantity weaponry added to early war battles is excessive. Adding the Federov is no less bad than having Axis with StG 44 at El Alamein. Adding a StG-ish competitor would substantially improve the balance on the Eastern front.
Super Soldier, what you say is utter ridiculousness. The MP40 is equivalent effectiveness to the Thompson and PPSH. The StG has no equivalent - that is why it was a revolutionary gun. The fact that the Germans in this game basically get unlimited quantities of StGs breaks game balance on top of superior MGs and tanks to the Russians and British.
Germany is the problem with balance in HLL.

[stuck pumice]

Yes the STG-44 was a revolutionary gun, but I wasn't talking about guns in real life, just in the context of the game. You can only have two STG-44 guys per squad (given one guy has assault at level 9 which is unlikely) so I don't know what your talking about when you say unlimited quantities. In the context of HLL, the STG-44 has more range and power than a SMG but the PPSH-41 with drum mag and Lanchester have a larger magazine capacity which kind of makes up for their lack of range and power and puts those weapons more in line with the STG-44. The BAR and FG-42 also both play exactly like the STG-44 except with lower mag capacity and better sights so in the context of this game, the STG-44 does have a equivalent.

[proven arrow]

Firstly, there can be lots of squads (more than 13 squads which means 26 StGs on the field at least, IIRC) and each squad can have two StGs in it. This means at least half the German team can be running the StG.
Secondly, the StG is far superior to the PPSH-41, Tompson, and Lanchester with 1 hit kills at close range as well as 2 hit kills at long range.
I would take an StG over any of those guns in a heartbeat due to close mid and long range capability.

[prime wave]

sorta

so the Avtomat was devloped from 1916 to 1925, but production was halted due to the fact that foreign ammunition imports were banned (its chambered to 6.5mm Arasaka).
Many Avtomats were taken out of storage and re-issued to soviet troops from 1939-40 during the Winter War, but It did not see military service after that

With Team 17 working on a Finland and Poland update, I imagine theyll split the soviets into an Early War subfaction, in this case I dont see an issue with the Fedrov being an unlockable weapon. However, I wouldnt want to see it on Stalingrad, Kursk and Kharkiv

on that note, the AVS-36 would be another interesting unlock for the soviets, although that weapon was widthdrawn from frontline service in 1941 due to poor reliability*

[mighty nova]

"God forbid each country has a strength different than one another because I suck at adapting and have no problem solving skills."

Pipe down and cry about hit reg making the ppsh trash right now not because they have the stg44 in the game, it shouldn't be in certain maps but the fact you want it gone from all fronts proves you're just whatever the opposite of a wehraboo is. I play on console and the stg is quite frankly worse at longer ranges in auto than the mp40, if pc accuracy is such an issue than use a controller and not a keyboard, special servers for controllers is the only way I see that this could be fixed without some crazy inaccurate recoil being added to pc only.

[sleek abyss]

Literally cope. Just ask in any chat whether it should be removed and the only objections would be from people who don't want to change how gun play is amongst factions.

[steel mural]

36. 36 STGs is the max, 18 also having a satchel. Imagine that.

[proven arrow]

Russia has no class role that is better than Germany. None. The factions are not at all balanced, even with asymmetric loadouts (asymmetric balance does not exist in HLL - just imbalance). Currently in HLL Germany has a significant advantage on Eastern front maps and also the even more ridiculousness on the British maps.

Jairion, thank you for clarifying exactly how ridiculous the Germany count of StGs is. Moreover, the assault satchel class is also very overpowered. Russia does not get another class other than AT with a satchel (Russian engineer has a bolt action while German engineer has an MP40 and a satchel...).

I want whatever people are smoking that don't think Germany is advantaged in HLL!

[mighty nova]

Your arguement is invalid the soviets get molotoff cocktails and a satchel on their assault class, Checkmate.

@prime wave Irrelevant, his whole arguement crumbled under his own self confidence without checking first.

[prime wave]

molotovs dont even damage tanks 💀

[neat glacier]

Molotovs instantly kill Garrisons, regardless, even if they’re “long” Garrisons.

[proven arrow]

OK I made a minor mistake but it does not detract from my main point: Germany is overpowered. Russia still has no class that is better than Germany.

What is your explanation as to why Germany gets SMG+Satchel Engineer while Russia does not?

Molotovs are basically useless.

[mighty nova]

The russian assault gets a 71 round drum fed smg that shoots about 900 rounds a minute. If you shoot first then the one hit kill does not matter, but as I stated it's the hit registration making the ppsh bad right now not the stg44. If you cannot play with a bolt action and hit your shots stick to an smg, just grind out assault it's not that difficult. I've already stated I support the stg44 being taken out of fronts it doesn't belong I'm simply telling you that your point makes no sense.

And mollotoff cocktails aren't useless if you use them correctly Like after at crews disable a tanks engine, lighting it on fire prevents the crew from escaping for a while, or get one through a window and a fortification is out of business for a while. I wouldn't protest to the Rokks 2 or 3 being added.

Ok let me put it like this. "The ppsh 41 can hold more rounds and shoot way faster than the mp40, so it needs to be removed."

[proven arrow]

The StG 44 has a faster TTK than the PPSH. 1 hit kills up to 50m. Trumps every 3 bullets the PPSH pushes out. I lose PPSH fights to StGs even when I shoot first for this reason - they just have to hit 1.
StG is also great at medium range spray and pray.
IT can also be used effectively at rifle ranges by spraying.
It is an overpowered gun which contributes to the overall Germany bias in this game.
The Russians need some buff to create balanced gameplay - and balance is more fun than unbalance.

[stuck pumice]

Should they remove the BAR too because it is exactly like the STG-44 in terms of damage and range? The only difference is that the BAR holds 10 less rounds but has better sights for longer ranged shots.

[proven arrow]

Stop using invalid whataboutism argument techniques or you are just trolling. The discussion wasn't about the BAR, it was about the StG 44 and the Federov on the Eastern Front, nothing to do with the BAR. The western front has the least imbalance in HLL right now, and certainly much less imbalance than the Eastern front.

@regal orbit I literally said above "Alternatively, the StG 44 should be removed, but a bunch of Germany only players/wehrabroos are about to object to this proposal"...and that's what happened.

[regal orbit]

Federovs weren’t used, therefore they shall not be in the game. There is literally nothing more to discuss.

If you want to balance the Red Army, do it by removing automatics from the Germans, not historical revisionism.

[stuck pumice]

The Americans have a decent counter to the STG-44 in terms of the bar. The Brits and the Soviet factions are kind of lacking but the devs can add weapons to those factions like buildable mgs to make them stronger. I personally don't think the devs should remove the STG-44 from the game completely. There might be an argument to have them remove it on early war maps. I don't have an aneurism if the game is not 100% historically accurate in terms of weapons and I like to see cool rare weapons like the Fg-42, STG-44, and Gewehr 43 represented in the game.

[azure wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-dude-no-oh-bugs-bunny-bugs-gif-22941840

[regal orbit]

I literally said above "Alternatively, the StG 44 should be removed, but a bunch of Germany only players/wehrabroos are about to object to this proposal"...and that's what happened.
And? I agree with them. The STG 44 shouldn't be removed. Merely the amount of automatic weapons present on any given battlefield should be significantly reduced. Furthermore, i am an advocate for the realistic depiction of firearms. The STG should only appear on later-war battles, and the FG 42 should only be available to a dedicated fallschirmjager faction, etc.

[proven arrow]

You just said: "to balance the Red Army, do it by removing automatics from the Germans," The obvious candidate is the StG!

[gleaming acorn]

The problem is not Germany in the game its the date at which weapons are allowed, most battles in hll take place in 1942 or after so in reality the guns should all have higher damage, let's be honest with ourselves if a American soilder got hit in the arm with a german 7.92 by 57 kurz round at 300 meters it would still put you on the ground same is true with almost all rifle cartridges which most in the game can fire up to a range of 1200 meters, hence why guns need to be way more powerful.

[mighty nova]

You are incapable of understanding that guns can be removed from a certain set of maps without removing it from the whole game, you are also incapable of understanding how fire rate works, you are also incapable of using the word invalid about something that's actually invalid, you for some odd reason despite being told multiple times, think in your walnut sized cranium that the Fedorov was used on the eastern front outside of the winter war, therefore your entire point is invalid, the stg44 will not be removed from all fronts because you're a commie simp that doesnt understand anything about combat, the ppsh41 can beat the stg44 if you were good at the game (you are not), I will say once more I advocate it being taken out of maps where it wasn't used but I will not support your stupid ideas and accusations about Russia being destroyed and so "underpowered" when it's just a skill issue.

[steel mural]

Since T17 has shown interest in historically accurate tanks per map, perhaps they will revise the loadouts too, at some point... 👀

[proven arrow]

Good to know that you also advocate removing the StG 44 from all Eastern front maps.
Insults are against the rules <@&365680483276816385> . Please alter your wording.

[prisma widget]

Agreed.

If you're not capable of communicating without resorting to insults and un-necessities, @mighty nova, it may be best to refrain yourself from certain discussions.

[mighty nova]

Oh so he can call me a wehraboo but I cant call this guy a commie lover?

All I said was fact and I insulted after what I saw as an insult. It's obvious I won this debate after he plays Mr.Innocent and calls in moderator.

[stuck pumice]

A commieboo. I would fall into that camp. I love Soviet weapons but I hate their ideology.

[sleek abyss]

Time for the mod to close this wild suggestion 🍾 🥳 🎉

[prisma widget]

You weren't insulted nor did he call you a wehraboo. I apologize if you may have aligned yourself to "a bunch of Germany only players" and took it to heart.

[severe quest]

Oooooh buuurn

[limber apex]

👎🏽 also damn, "Master" Of Antics getting absolutely owned by Drew.

[neat glacier]

Drew’s the man!

[rigid quest]

Didn’t expect this much commotion 😅

[prime wave]

Yeah idk it’s strange. I’ve seen several thread suggesting adding the AVS36 or the Fedrov to the Soviets, but they all end up with lots of arguing

If implemented properly, I don’t see an issue with it ^

(cooldown so im editing my message @sleek abyss it was used during the Winter War and that was it, hence why i suggested that when the Finland update comes out the soviets should be split into an early was subfaction and the Fedrov should be available for them, but just for the Winter War maps)

[sleek abyss]

Mainly because there's a better automatic rifle that the soviets had that would be a better representation than the Fedorov Avtomat that was never used in WWII.

[long shale]

Fedorov for an Early War lvl9 Assault, but do not remove the StG, it was used at a wide scale in 1944/45

[prime wave]

STG should only be available on late war maps, hence why the germans should be split into several subfactions with period correct uniforms and weapons for the corresponding map (currently the devs are working on an Afrika Korps subfaction, which is good, and they should expand upon this further)

[neat glacier]

I don’t believe they’ll be sub factions, just map-dependent load-outs and vehicles, which would make the game cleaner anyhow.

[earnest nymph]

👎