Suppression mechanics

[ionic wraith]

Instead of just blurring the entire screen maybe add a depth of field distance style of blur. So the backround is blurred a bit in the distance but everything close to you within say.. 75 meters is not blurred.

Slight color loss is nice. But it would also be ideal to only have color loss on the areas that are blurred in the distance as well. Making it harder to see what is suppressing you.

Remove players ability to zoom in when aiming down sight when being suppressed. This also means not being able to use the focus aim.

Also add what I would called " forced fov increase " when being suppressed. So now what is suppressing you is pushed away from you making it smaller, harder to see. A really nice effect would be to do a dolly zoom. Or vertigo zoom when being suppressed. Everything near the camera stays the same size but objects in the distance appear to become smaller. This is done by moving the camera forward or backward but adjusting the focal length of the camera.

Here is an example @ the 13 second mark example of the vertigo zoom @ 13 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXiHYUM6G68 You can see what is happening with the effect. If done sublety this might make for a nice suppression mechanic. The MG that is suppressing you would essentially be pushed away into the distance. Making it harder to see him. Then combine that will everything else that was suggested.

[dull sun]

[mint bough]

I want a better suppression system, half the time you will hardly notice you’re getting shot at especially if it’s not from automatic fire

[ionic wraith]

I did some testing a while back with a friend. Sometimes the suppression would just not even happen. So something needs to be fixed with that. Not sure if it was already fixed but I would not be suprised if it was still partially broken.

[cinder meadow]

[feral sand]

[mint bough]

I mentioned it a couple days ago and all the comp players just complained bc it would be “broken” lol

[pulsar siren]

Have you even been supressed bro?

[misty salmon]

Players in public games don’t use the mechanic properly therefore it needs buffing.

What’s next? Let’s buff repair stations!

[flat panther]

Can we actually buff repair stations though!

[misty salmon]

No, having 2 repair stations next to a heavy tank already allows it to out-heal an AT gun. They only cost 50 supplies and require minimal coordination. Go watch a comp game and tell me they need buffing.

[ionic wraith]

" Players in public games don’t use the mechanic properly therefore it needs buffing. " Who is this directed towards? me? Just so to be clear. Because I have 4,000 hours in game. The current suppression mechanic just feels dated. So if you want HLL to feel even more like a movie why not use one of the greatest techniques used in cinematography.

[pulsar siren]

I suggest you turn your attention to the other thread on this topic.
Discord does have a search feature so you can avoid looking like a newb and making repeat posts.

Play a game where you are suppressed for 90 mins and come back to the convo. Also, do you know how cap weight works?

[mint bough]

I would love HLL with more suppression, if they added it I would definitely enjoy it. HLL gunplay is too simple and after thousands of hours played it has become very evident

[misty salmon]

Suppression doesn't need buffing. In your 4000 hours of gameplay you don't seem to have interacted with a team that is coordinating and actively trying to suppress you. The vast majority of the public game gameplay doesn't have any idea of how the mechanics work when people are min-maxing them because people simply don't use or interact with the mechanics in public play. Suppression doesn't need a buff simply because you don't see people using it effectively in public games.

Generally the mechanic is extremely oppressive and unfun and doesn't need buffing. I would even argue it needs nerfing on the SMGs and keeping the heaviest weapons where they are now and scaling everything else back. OR just giving the server owners the option to toggle or scale mechanics like this so that the RP'ers can go elsewhere and leave the rest of us alone making everyone happy.

When you are assigned to a specific lane in the game and you can only spawn there because it is imperative to hold the map control or lose the game and the enemy team has prepped up mag dump MG positions 300-500m away that fire through one-way walls / hedges then you will feel miserable and unable to play the game. Being spammed by MGs and other suppressive mechanics like arty and tanks makes the game unplayable even when you're alive. My entire reason d'etre is to make the initial 5-10mins of the game unplayable by MGing 1000s of rounds at you with overlapping fields of fire which is never seen in publics hence my comment of publics not interacting mechanics - if this happened in a public game you would literally just redeploy elsewhere...

[flat panther]

As a comp tanker I call this an absolute win.

[pulsar siren]

4 repair station > 2 repair station.

[mint bough]

That’s an awfully dumb assumption to make. Arty needs overhauled completely, “lanes” don’t care open the map up and that won’t be a problem, suppression doesn’t exist in the game, every other game with a comp scene has Separate rules for comp and pub games any. Half of the game is outdated and cheesy and the gunplay falls into that category, using other outdated and cheesy examples does not justify keeping the boring system

[modest walrus]

Just because people can't aim to save their lives doesn't mean it doesn't work

[pulsar siren]

Can you pls explain how cap weight works?

[mint bough]

CaN yOu PlS eXpLaIn HoW cAp WeIgHt WoRkS?

Eat my as Einstein it’s not that complicated, never mind irrelevant. You aren’t better than any other player because you play comp you smug a**h*le

[ionic wraith]

" Suppression doesn't need buffing. In your 4000 hours of gameplay you don't seem to have interacted with a team that is coordinating " No, absolute nonsense - for 1. I have literally done test with a friend on the enemy team and had them suppress me on a empty server. Sometimes the suppression didn't register/happen. And when it did I would have them put a full magazine over my head and it really doesn't do enough to hider my ability. Suppression last for approximately 7 seconds. But the effect is not punishing enough. For 2. I have been told by many that I am one of the greatest squad leaders they have ever had. I take that as a great compliment. I consider myself a tactician and a strategist. And one of my biggest strengths is getting guys/especially random squads to coordinate and synchronize. You have no clue what you are talking. Don't ever waste my time again.

[granite kestrel]

Excessively rewarding people for missing their shots is very risky gameplay design in an FPS. It might fit in a hardcore realism shooter, but HLL has long had more of a casual vibe that makes me actually enjoy playing it. I wouldn't like the suppression being stronger than it already is, and honestly would prefer it being removed from the game completely.

The evil laserbeams 400m away on a roof watching me run behind textures that don't render at that distance really don't need to be any stronger than they already are.

[feral sand]

Full auto MG fire does make me get my head down usually, but other than that I can ignore most types of fire and return fire. That being said, I've had prolonged gunfights in HLL more often than I have in the current Squad version where people just head-click. Probably because of the lack of scopes. Suppression doesn't feel as necessary in HLL as in Squad for that reason. I think if it were increased or changed though, gunfights would last even longer which may or may not end up being more fun in HLL. I'm inclined to think it's a good idea in general but I'd have to see it I guess.

[long relic]

^this guy:

"lEt'S BuFf SupPrEssIoN. ThAt WaY tHe gAmE geTs mOrE caMpY aNd wE rEWArD pEoplE foR MisSinG aNd siTtinG iN cOrnErS"

[mint bough]

Just say you want 1-shot battlefield

[ionic wraith]

It seems like some people are too focused on how the current suppression is. And not talking anything about the new mechanics I mentioned. 1. Vertigo zoom and or forced fov increase. 2. no zoom when aiming when suppressed 3. No focused aim ( hence no zoom when aiming down sights when suppressed) I mentioned some other things as well. Like how to go about screen blur differently etc etc. Just fully read the initial post. There were many suggestions. And at the end of the day " just suggestions " Or even brain storming with you guys to see what we can come up. Don't just knock the ideas. Feel free to add/alter the concept. Too many people jumping on post just saying " nO dis is bad, me no want, no. no. " Tell us why etc etc.

[cinder meadow]

Take a look at the mew squad update. Suppression should be like that. Gunfights last 2x longer and require teamwork from your fellow players

[mint bough]

I would love if HLL did a squad combat overhaul esque suppression system. I wouldn’t want it to be quite so harsh but you can clearly see how well suppression improves gunfights in squad

[grave swan]

does suppression irl work how it does in hll? or am i on the spectrum....

[ionic wraith]

@grave swan Is that a rhetorical question? Of course it doesnt . But does a person value his life the same way he does when he plays a video game? No. So you have to do things to inhibit the soldiers behavior. Like adding something like suppression to prevent him from standing up and firing back with accuracy when taking high volumes of fire. No one in there right mind is going to challenge an mg42 head on for example.

[feral sand]

I mean, combat veterans do often talk bout tunnel vision / a narrowing effect while in combat. You hyperfocus and your sense of time and sometimes vision can change, or so I've read. It's a result of your body flooding itself with adrenaline, etc. Fight or flight. It obviously depends on training, experience, the person and all that, but if you're being suppressed you're gonna hit the dirt and stay there until you're not getting suppressed anymore or maybe try to fall back if you're not in good cover or might get flanked. Especially if there's a large volume of fire. There can be dirt, wood, rock, and rounds kicking up and flying around. Nobody is going to peek the enemy in that situation.

Good suppressive fire will leave you deaf, blind, and unable to maneuver while the enemy is maneuvering on your position. You're really not going to be able to return accurate fire under those conditions. By all accounts it's a terrifying experience, especially if you're not accustomed to it. It's called suppressive for a reason. If it doesn't prevent the enemy from returning fire or moving, it's not effective suppressive fire.

That's why I think some of the OP's ideas are good and interesting. I'd love for T17 to experiment in this area. I do like that currently, the closer the rounds get, the more your vision and movement gets messed up. That seems realistic. Taking accurate suppression should do that.

[cinder meadow]

^

[ionic wraith]

@feral sand Well said, if you ever used a weed whipper and got something thrown at your face.. Imagine bullets hit the wall or bush next to you. The possiblity of getting hit in the face with debris alone would deter you a bit 😄

[misty salmon]

man it is mind boggling how this is an arcade shooter and not a milsim, seems like the current mechanic reflects that and is incredibly strong when used correctly

[ionic wraith]

@misty salmon You could dump a entire mg42 belt at me and the very second you stop I'd pop up and blow your brains out. Strong for you maybe. But not strong enough for me. So with that said there needs to be stronger suppression and slightly longer lasting effects intense enough to inhibit you even slightly after the person suppressing you stops firing. 2 years ago the suppression was more intense and your screen also went black and white. THIS was the best because it really prevented you from returning fire. You would simply get pinned down. Today's suppression sucks.

[mint bough]

This is not an arcade shooter

[misty salmon]

Apart from Arcade gunplay, arcadey tanks, arcadey spawn system etc

So I guess apart from the core gameplay loops it's not arcadey at all

[mint bough]

They’re not Arcadey at all when compared to arcade shooters. Just because it isn’t arma doesn’t mean it’s an arcade shooter

[pulsar siren]

No ammo management, no consequence for death, simple ballistics, no need for comms, animated map, friendly markers, no logistics, etc. As far as I can tell there isn't a system in HLL that isn't arcadey.

Really the only thing that is convincing that its not would be the low ttk. However, I'd argue that makes it arcadey because of how easy it is to kill people. No decision just shoot.

[flat panther]

Don’t shoot back at him, DC has a known reputation of this kind of stuff. Although I tend to agree with him, sure it’s not arcadey in the sense you’re thinking of, but it’s surely not a simulation.

[mint bough]

Oh trust me I know, but arcade shooter implies a cod esque game. I mean cod is literally the classic example of an arcade shooter

[lime lion]

Very known reputation.

[misty salmon]

It is literally a hardcore arcade shooter unless I wasn't in the history class when people magically teleported and reappeared elsewhere on magic tables, or ooga booga rock paper scissors tanking, or magic engineering buildings that appear out of the floor.

The game is not CoD but it is so far from a simulation. It has far closer resemblance in all the core game mechanics to arcade shooters than any other genre.

[ancient quarry]

Suppression is already alot as it is. No need to make it worse.

[mint bough]

The video game market is not decided into 2 chunks of (arcade) (simulation). You are just outright wrong, yes I agree there are arcadey aspects but it is not an arcade shooter
@ancient quarry no it isn’t, it is nearly nonexistent

[dusk sandal]

👎🚫

[visual bobcat]

@mint bough It literally is an arcade shooter, for all of the reasons listed above. HLL is basically battlefield, you’ve just deluded yourselves that it isn’t, in a vain effort to feel superior.

[mint bough]

Lmao, that’s a silly thing to say coming from you

[misty salmon]

it's silly because it's not the game you've made up in your head

[crystal needle]

much more important to start with is gaining suppression points. at the moment this is not encouraged in any way, just as hitting tanks and so on is not encouraged, and only the one who made the final hit gets points, this is not fair

[trail fjord]

Suppression should give you that feeling if u are getting shot at, u are SCARED to poke ur head back up and even hesitate to pick ur head up, it definitely needs to be more gruesome and buffed or reworked

[pulsar siren]

This sounds very unpleasant. Why do people want things in games that aren't fun.

Suppression is already annoying.

Like let's add gun jams and mini games to dismantle garrisons too.

[mint bough]

I don’t think it sounds unpleasant

[trail fjord]

Gun jams would be cool if they added a system like Gears of war has lol

[ionic wraith]

So your telling me you don't want something that was literally an essential tactic of WW2 and even modern day infantry combat? Find um, fix em, flank um, finish em - FIRE AND MOVEMENT this is the essence of small infantry tactics. IF you are playing a WW2 game and this is not part of the heart of the game. You are not playing a WW2 game.

[pulsar siren]

I fail to see how comparisons to real life apply to HLL.

I think it's fun to imagine HLL as a vastly different game, but like I don't think suggestions that ignore the truth about the game are particularly interesting.

We are playing HLL because we like arcade shooters, not because we want to play war sim. At least the bar majority of the playerbase is.

Again, real life doesn't apply.

Also, so many of these suggestions are ignoring the fundamental nature of the game. It's fun to dream but like, there is no argument for this unless we pretend HLL is a different game.

I personally don't want suppression mechanics that are less fun because the gun play is too easy.

I don't really want the gun play to change because I don't want other parts of the game to change and the gunplay is an important piece of that.

[mint bough]

“Gunplay is too easy so let’s not make it any harder”

[young vale]

If you’re going to add suppression make the recoil more on mg42. Mg42 have lazer accuracy, doesn’t overheat and way to much bullets in the mobile clip. More recoil, replacing rod and lowered ammo capacity since those clips carry 50 bullets and not 150* make the mg34 more accurate, with less recoil than the mg42. Give mg42 the most suppression and tone it for for the mg34. Mg34 should have same suppression as m1919, lowest should be dp27.

[mint bough]

I am all for making combat a bit more difficult

[misty salmon]

unless it involves slightly faster movement speed of course haha

[pulsar siren]

Not that kind of difficult.

[mint bough]

That doesn’t make combat more difficult

[ionic wraith]

Would also be nice if suppression intensified if bullets didn't just go passed you but hit a surface near/next to you. Imagine pieces of wood or concrete chipping off a surface right next to your face. IN EXAMPLE - In a window frame or a wall, ground/dirt. You are going to be forced away / or forced to turn away just because of the debris being thrown in your face.

[mint bough]

I do like this a lot

[oblique ravine]

If enemy bullets are landing close to your general vicinity - distance blur
If enemy bullets hit you or extremely close to your head - aim flinch

Mechanically these can be two simple spheres of a larger and a smaller radius attached to the player, which are doing the hit trace checks. IMPACT within the sphere = execute given effect at given intensity. No more evil bullets proccing a random chance of fear. No more excess reward for people with terrible aim magdumping at you and missing every shot during a chance encounter.

Suppressive fire should be about making sure your teammates who are pushing an entrenched enemy can make it to cover across open areas. It should take a modicum of skill and knowing the enemy positions to do this effectively. The current implementation is extremely annoying; it's too easy to suppress vast areas for a knowledgeable team, and individual encounters are NOT enhanced by it. You will never simulate the fear people feel when getting shot at IRL with a fancy graphical effect. Therefore the suppression mechanic should be there purely to add depth to the gameplay and realism of combat maneuvers.

[ionic wraith]

[You say] Suppressive fire should be about making sure your teammates who are pushing an entrenched enemy can make it to cover across open areas. [I say] YES and this is not where it needs to be in my opinion. The game needs to have a real working suppression system that you can count on to keep the enemy from just popping up and contesting your MG etc.

[ancient rampart]

I like the current implementation of suppression. I like my Hell Let Loose

[ionic wraith]

You like playing on recruit difficulty. Yeah we get it.

[ancient rampart]

Good.

[ionic wraith]

GREAT

[fair oar]

i agree with this but i dont like the blurring or weird camera effects it makes it a headache to play i just wish we had something kinda like squad

[flat panther]

That’s kinda the point of suppression though.

[buoyant laurel]

Yeah facts I don't think suppression should necessarily slow people down, I think it should just be more effective at blurring the enemies vision to a point where players strive to actually suppress each other

[fair oar]

ye but suppression making you blind to whete you cant see 5 feet infront of yourself is annoying, id rather have weapon sway increased and have the screen darken and add viggenette(or whatever it is it’s something like that) that way if a enemy comes up close we can still shoot them, but it’s harder to take out the mg, squad is kind of a example of this also you gotta agree the suppression stuff we got rn is cancer

[ionic wraith]

Yes which is why I suggested instead of depending soley on screen blur.. instead blur the backround in the distance/depth blur and slightly reduce color in the distance. So you are unable to see threats further away/what is suppressing you. But you can still see immediate threats in front of you up to 50 - 75 meters. In another thread I talked about adding the effect of slowing player movement by 10% when being suppressed. This is a feeling associated with suppression opposed to just relying on the visual aspect. If your movement was slowed it would probably prevent you from trying to move to the next piece of cover until suppression had subsided. Creating a better representation of what suppressive fire would actually do to the enemy.

[buoyant laurel]

Yeah sure that'll do but as long as being suppressed is tedious enough that people take suppression into consideration when they engage in fights

[fair oar]

either way i think we can all agree that being blinded the second you start getting suppressed is kinda dumb

[pulsar siren]

Its already dumb that I have to sit behind a bush to wait for the blurries to go away when one bullet whizzes by my head.

[fair oar]

yup

[ionic wraith]

No not dumb, because if you were really taking fire. You would not be dumb enough to stand up and look at who is already shooting at you if the volume of fire was high enough. You would wait for a break in the shooting or shift away from it and return fire from a different location.

[pulsar siren]

Yes, perhaps in real life, but not in a vid game.

[analog fox]

I prefer the real life argument when we are talking about tactics. I dont play this game to feel like a fearless super soldier.

[buoyant laurel]

it's annoying for a reason. You get punished with blur if you get shot at without cover. You stay in cover because you got shot at, just like how you would if you were shot at irl. Again, It's supposed to be annoying so people actually try and suppress each other.

[mint bough]

Suppression is supposed to be annoying if you’re on the receiving end

[analog fox]

👆👆👆

Im editing to respond to @pulsar siren below me. I believe the general goal for suppression mechanic is to make gunfights last longer, but right now it isnt working correctly bc of blurriness and is just annoying.

If both sides are firing at each other (giving suppression), both sides are going to be a little “frightened”, their aim will not be as accurate, less people die in a short time, fights lasts longer.

Because of this, ammo will matter a lot more and if we combine this with limited ammo and no ordnance on respawn, this might actually end the suicide meta because you will need squad coordination and willingness to preserve lives in order to fight the enemy properly.

[ionic wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/totally-illogical-spock-star-trek-illogical-gif-16721991 Bullets kill people in real life. Should they not in HLL because it's a video game? I don't see the logic in your thinking.

[pulsar siren]

I just don't see how this makes the game more fun to play.

Like the suppression is already pretty lame.. bullet flies by your head, go sit behind a bush until my screen isn't blurry.

Like, what does this suggestion add to game play? I spend more time camping in bushes because 'bullets kill'...

Maybe that's not based on realism/band of brothers, but what is the desired outcome with this suggestion?

[buoyant laurel]

FACTS🔥🔥🔥

[ancient rampart]

The problem is he doesn't know how to position himself and play as MG. He sits at the most obvious position on the strongpoint and expects to pick off enemy players while spraying down all of the surrounding bushes at the same time. He inevitably gets killed from a different angle and goes to discord to complain that MG is underpowered.

We don't need to think twice whether MG is underpowered or not.

https://youtu.be/6hxV-3h0s28

MG does not need a boost. Players just need to learn how to use it.

[pulsar siren]

Yes this. Or he has never played against MGs setup like we do in comp, 450m back just shooting pixels and/or through bushes for constant suppression.

[analog fox]

Mgs are given too much ammo in this game lol, who ever heard of mgs sprinting with 10 belts of mg42 ammunition + gun. Im sorry that this is the situation in comp, and to me this is a failure in game design and they should make it so that more players need to support the mg with ammo boxes or something if they want to suppress the other team like that.

[ionic wraith]

https://clipchamp.com/watch/ffdmD6gMQOy https://clipchamp.com/watch/57eXUOuIyk0 https://clipchamp.com/watch/gQSEVufGgXv VIDEOS TAKEN FROM A CONTROLLED TEST. SUPPRESSION doesn't even do anything in the game now. It is broken. Not only does it not make me any less accurate. Half the time it doesn't even produce blur or screenshake. Which even when it does it doesn't hinder you to shoot accurately in anyway. WHICH IS WHY your machine gunner dies instantly when he tries to suppress the enemy. BECAUSE THEY CAN SHOOT AS STRAIGHT AS AN ARROW 😄 what a joke.

[viscid sleet]

Suppression screen blur and its implementation in HLL is a byproduct of people not being able to hit their shots change my mind.

Magic blur suppression is dumb. It handicaps bad shooting and suppression strictly speaking isn’t some video game screen blur; its any instance of a person choosing to not expose themselves for fear of getting hit. Players not situationally aware enough that they are getting shot at deserve to get themselves shot after exposing themselves.

[fair oar]

point is blur when being suppressed is stupid cuz you cant even try and peak for 2 seconds to take a pop shot to get the enemy to move

[pulsar siren]

I don't disagree.

We usually have to run ammo to our mgs

[ionic wraith]

You can't try to peek? Why not??? The suppression doesn't even do anything right now because it is broken. Here is a clip of the mp40 doing absolutely nothing to hinder my aim. IF ANYTHING they need to FIX SUPPRESSION. https://clipchamp.com/watch/ffdmD6gMQOy NOT AN MG ONLY THING either HERE IS ANOTHER CLIP of A TANK SUPPRESSING ME. NOTICE - My aim is not effected and STRANGLEY when the bullets land in dirt next to me there is zero blur or screen shake https://clipchamp.com/watch/gQSEVufGgXv I CAN STILL aim just as accurately.

[fair oar]

it might be a mg only thing

[fathom hazel]

Most of you probably don't even know that the suppression effect are reduced if you have a Squad lead and/or Medic near you.

[fresh bloom]

yeah i seen videos on this ages ago on youtube, something we stuck to after https://youtu.be/ccL9andkr-k