U14 rebalance.

[tiny harbor]

U14 needs to be rebalanced. Playing Brits side feels like “a balls punch”. HLL is a game, not a simulator. Gameplay is more important than realism. It is a WW2 setting game, not a real war between countries with their economics, technologies, political regimes and human resources. It is just a competition of 2 teams. That's why playing one side shouldn't be OP or too weak. In the case of HLL balanсe is not symmetrical, but it should be.

1.Semi Automatic rifles have the same one shot kill distance(200m) as bolt action rifles. So why should players take Karabiner 98k, Mosin rifles and play Great Britain when they have Gewehr 43 and SVT-40? Also all 3 Lee–Enfield rifles feel worse than the Karabiner 98k. The rear peep sights ("ghost ring", "aperture sights") are good in real life but not in computer games. Because games do not simulate the human eye focusing the object when aiming. No blur effect and it's ok. But rear peep sights create blind spots and you shouldn't make them real size. Or even better add in game weapons with open rear sight (plank).
Solutions:

• Bolt action rifle’s one shot kill distance need to be changed from 200 to 500. It will also remove weird game logic when the same rifle with sniper scope and without it has different damage. It is hard to aim without optics after 300m so it shouldn't be OP. In this case players start to have a choice between fast semi automatic rifles and powerful bolt actions rifles.
• Remove the P14 with rear peep sight in every loadout and replace it with the no1 mk3 SMLE. Or by any other bolt action rifle with open rear sight. Rate of fire should be the same as Mosin carbine.
• Semi automatic rifles need to be added to Brits for balance. Remove Lee-Enfield(jungle). Replace it with lend-lease M1 Garand. 38k was send IRL. Not so much, but gameplay is more important than realism.
• Lee–Enfield No4 mk I in this case will be slow but accurate bolt action rifle

[limpid aurora]

Just because this game is not a milsim doesn’t mean that realism should be pushed away, the m1 garand was almost not used by the british just a few used by the commandos

[subtle pollen]

I agree that the grand isn’t the correct choice, I think making the lee shoot way faster would be a solution, however I think that they have already begun to push realism away, I mean we have the p14 for the main Brit gun, and somehow the army commandeered the royal navy’s smg

[shadow aspen]

The Brits didn't have a semi automatic rifle as far as I know. The closest thing I can think of is the Turner SMLE, a prototype semi automatic conversion of the SMLE but it was meant for Canada. I don't think it was even used. The Brits simply never thought about making semi automatic rifles maybe because the average British soldier could fire a Lee Enfield Mk1 No4 pretty fast. In the game, the Lee Enfield fires pretty slow so I think Team17 should maybe make it faster. In BFV and PS I believe the character holds the bolt handle with the thumb and index finger while the middle finger is on the trigger which is something British riflemen actually did to fire faster.

[spare galleon]

Agree, making rifle rounds damage less at distance is punishing players with aiming skill.

[tiny harbor]

...(Discord slow mode)...

2. Great Britain's weapons blind spots are too big. Animation of sights while moving makes blind spots even bigger. When the animation of German sights is almost still.
   Solutions:

• replace by other weapons, or rework size proportions and position(also player view camera maybe) of current GB weapons
• reduce GB’s weapons shaking(wiggle) when aiming and move (good option)
  or
• increase Germans sight’s shaking (bad option)

3. Dear developers, stop hating tankers please. Especially drivers. New Firefly is awful as a heavy tank. No driver’s machine gun and really bad maneuverability makes gameplay boring and annoying. Also front side weakness(drivers hatch) hitbox working wrong. Because the main front plate is not penetrable for PZ4 but the main front plate plus additional metal plate is penetrable. I am talking about angles of shooting when behind an additional metal plate is the body of the tank, not the driver's hatch.
   Solutions:

• Increase movement speed of tanks as well as infantry’s
• Rework maneuverability of all tanks please. Give drivers the opportunity to switch gears and take positive effect from it. Only a few players agree to play the driver role. Make this game role more interesting please. It can be hard and challenging but it shouldn't be boring and annoying because controls is bad.
• Add to game tanks with machine gun for drivers. At least mediums and heavies for balance. Replace Jumbo Firefly by Mk.IV «Churchill»
• Increase turret rotation speed. Just make it as it was early.
• Remove collisions from small branches and leaves of trees for tank shells please. Non-penetrable palm leaves are ridiculous.

[pastel skiff]

[forest panther]

[limpid aurora]

The weapon sway should be for all factions

[hallow bloom]

Good post

[slate portal]

[desert belfry]

Agree

[mental yew]

agreed. Its a good change if its applied to everyone

[acoustic parrot]

I think just making the smle fire rate faster would kill two birds with one stone. Makes the SMLE usable and more accurate, it would also make it sorta have the firepower of a semi-auto rifle, which would solve the issue of the brits not having a proper counter part to the 43 and SVT

[shrewd pasture]

yeah that way we can all camp and no one will ever push! Great idea

to OP though, well articulated

[hallow bloom]

Quokka makes a very good point

[frail pecan]

As if the camp meta wasn't already strong in this game. Increasing sway on all guns will just make it even worse. This will also disproportionately affect the Americans and Brits who mostly used peep sights versus the Germans who used more open iron sights. The rear sight ring blocks the front sight post quite a bit when they are misaligned.

[fluid steeple]

you call it camping, i call it completely accurate and legit military simulation tactics

simply built different 😎

[gloomy lily]

Probably sarcasm, so here’s nuanced take for benefit of others.

Yes, in reality movement makes you vulnerable, so it’s realistic to “punish” movement (no ADS, sway, etc); however, since this is still a “game” it should be “fun”, and realism is counter-productive to “fun”, since most people want action, and not static warfare, where realistic fire and movement techniques are required, people would rather be their own hero than coordinate with a team to push forward.

Even still, when you’re bounding from cover to cover you’d realistically be doing it even faster than U14… even the slower U7 speeds (4.4m/s) would be realistically sustainable for 18mins a time, we’ll above the average lifespan in game.

In my opinion; the current speed (or faster) should only be for short dashes, but I also understand the difficulty implementing a “stamina” / “cool-down” system.

TL;DR balance is hard, and I really feel for the devs; it’s a contentious issue, for sure.

[tiny harbor]

@limpid aurora Who needs realism when it is non playable? For example we will remove the British maps from rotation tomorrow on our server. Because people don’t like to play them.
And what realism are you talking about? This game has hundreds of issues which are really far from reality. It’s ok for me because I know that it is just a game. But little list for you:
Physics (no objects moving and destruction, little branches and leaves stops tank shells etc.)
Healing system (bandage heals everything, from broken legs to bullet holes)
Damage + hit points and hitbox system
Deploying system (is it ok when people appear from nowhere?)
and other and other
But the main example for you, because we are talking about game balance. And you don’t like the idea of adding M1 Garands. The German side's squad can be full 100% with Gewehr43 (all 6 players and if you want all 50 players of the German team). Is it historically right, when 100% of German infantry use Gewehr43? - I don’t think so.

@shadow aspen I don’t want to make No 4 Mk1 slower. Maybe just a little rework of the rear sight for more comfortable aiming. My concept for Brits is:
1 fast bolt action rifle with open rear sight. Not super accurate with slower bullet speed (rate of fire like Mosin carbine)
1 slow bolt action rifle (No 4 Mk1). Accurate, faster bullet speed
1 semi automatic rifle. M1 Garand looks like the best option because alternatives even worse from historical perspective
Also all bolt action rifles in the game should kill from a bigger distance then semi automatics.

@acoustic parrot Bolt action rifles are not semi automatic rifles, even with a faster rate of fire. I can kill full spawn wave on outpost with Gewehr or Garand for example. Can you do the same with bolt action?
Germans weapons have better rate of fire and are more comfortable in finding target aiming and shooting than British. One squad of Germans cost 2 squad of Brits now. And it should be rebalanced

[fickle bobcat]

[glossy plover]

There's no semi-automatic rifle for the British, they didn't use them. The No.4 Mk1 should be buffed to remedy the issue.

[chilly bridge]

[tiny harbor]

IRL it was worked for GB. But not in game. In HLL semi automatic rifles is good in close and in far distance against solo players and groups of enemies. And as I told earlier.. Who cares about realism if the game is unplayable because balance is totally broken. Sten and Lanchster is worse them MP 40. Bren is worse then STG and FG42. Lee-Enfields are worse than Kar98. MG42 is 10 times better than Lewis. GB tanks are worse than the German ones. Only PIAT is a little better than Panzerschreck. Because penetration zones and damage are the same but PIAT has faster reload speed.

[glossy plover]

Buff them all then to compensate? make the No.4. fire almost as fast as a G43, give the bren a bipod. Remove all sway on the british weapons. Give more classes the No.4 and engineers access to the sten. There's plenty of ways to do it.

[tiny harbor]

Absolutely agree that it should be buff and rework. But do you realize how fast semi automatic rifles are? The animation of any bolt action rifle even with almost the same rate of fire will look super weird and not natural.

[glossy plover]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCa28lqOGw8 is an example of how much faster it can be fired. And just allow more classes to have access to it (or make it standard issue).

[limpid aurora]

What i mean by realism is historical accuracy and harder and more realistic gun play, because when you just have gotten the game you chould just become a rifleman and shoot players 200 yards easy, and also with the gewher 43 it will be removed from the el alamein since it wasn’t used there and also the gewher 43 chould be limited to only officers, commanders and mabye spotters for the driel map to fix that problem

[warped coyote]

How's that? I guess it would make camping even more powerfull at it is.

[late shore]

[mental yew]

fair.

tbh, I don't think the average play ever changes his or her play style based on any change to gameplay. I think that's why you see so much push back about the speed increase. Players are unwilling to change to new circumstances and complain rather than adjust.

I don't see adding a bit of sway to all guns as encouraging camping, players are going to do whatever they want to anyway.

[chilly bridge]

[tiny harbor]

@glossy plover https://youtu.be/IfhUJ1qQwSk
It is just different types of weapons. You can't compare them. And you are acting different ways when you have any animation between aiming and shooting and without that animation. Using a semi automatic rifle you can burst a group of enemies really fast. With bolt action you will need to kill them one by one. And this difference is huge even with super fast animation of bolt action rifles.
G43 SVT-40 and M1 Garand are always better than Kar98 Mosin and Lee-Enfield. The player with semi automatic rifle will always have advantage on player with bolt action rifle. That's why I suggest increasing one shot distance from 200m to 500m for bolt actions (now is the same for semi automatic and bolt action rifles).
As an option, Bren's rear sight can be reworked. And 200m one shot kill distance can be given to Bren (not 100m as STG BAR and FG42). In this case may be Brits will be playable without semiautomatic rifle.

@limpid aurora Removing the G43 for balance is ok. But a lot of players will be frustrated. Limitation is not an option because 3 man squads and the whole team with Gewehr 43 again. Limited SVT-40 for Soviets working this way now in HLL.

[glossy plover]

I like your suggestions that all bolt-action rifles should one-shot, I like that would level the playing field at range for sure, but as for balance. If more people have access to the No.4. (2x5rnd clips) with a faster rate of fire, it buffs the entire squad.