MG42 is simply too powerful

[summer reef]

Yeah. The game is not very enjoyable nowadays because of the mg42 meta. Take it out of the game, make it ALOT less accurate or do whatever, just balance the weapons please.

[forest smelt]

Imagine nerfing one of the most iconic weapon in the second world war because its model and implemented correctly.

[tame tiger]

"nowadays?" it hasn't changed in years. A firm no to arbitrary inaccuracy in weapon. In my experience being an MG makes you a huge target. So unless you are well positioned with good defilade, you'll get shot near instantly. You are probably just encountering experienced machine gunners which is a good thing.

[dull widget]

I believe El Alamein has made MGs very powerful, considering how you can set up on a hill and shoot down at enemy OPs easily from 400+ meters. other maps have more cover and make it less of an issue

I don't think MG is the issue, the extreme visibility in El Alamein is

[languid sparrow]

I agree with the 2 above, no reason to nerf something that doesn’t need it, playing MG isn’t an easy role, finding a good setup is what makes it good,

And in itself el alamein is more open than Will Smiths marriage with Jada

@candid axle
That would make the game stupid unfair and not very fun, either way if you look at the bottom text when loading into El Alamein the date is shown as September 26th (I think) 1944

[candid axle]

Mg42 doesn't need a nerf. However It could be disabled for el alamein, along with the g43, stg44, and panther.

[crystal spear]

Personally the MG34 is the better option for long range fire, the lower rate of fire and recoil compared to the MG42 makes it a fantastic weapon for longer ranges. While the MG42 really shines in close and medium ranges but can't sustain fire accurately at distance unless using a 1-3 round burst.

[glossy glen]

Take out all guns please, I would prefer not to be shot at by superior firepower 😦

[spice oriole]

Thinking about it we should really have a knife round at the beginning of the match to decide sides.

[viral lynx]

there needs to be some sort of overheating mechanic

[hard junco]

I agree. I think they should decrease the accuracy of the MG-42. In real life MG-42s are not the laser beams like they are in HLL. They have more recoil and are quite bouncy. They weren't very accurate unless they was in their tripod mount.

[compact sinew]

This. Also the MG42 has magical 50 round drum magazines that hold 250 round belts. It is not implemented correctly in game.

[dire stump]

100% agree. Mg42 is iconic and a literal bullet magnet. You either learn to shoot n scoot & use whatever environmental cover you have or you end up getting domed within seconds of opening up.

If anything i want them to fix all the mg deployment issues. Dont nerf, use tactics to get around and hit them on their flanks

[dull widget]

as much as I hate to say it, El Alamein may actually need fog (form of dust clouds maybe?)
Not only is it bad to have MGs sniping at 400 or so meters, but also the game's netcode does not allow infantry to render beyond 500 meters. I actually got a couple team kills because I was shooting at a trench in enemy territory but my friendlies didnt render
Or their name plates for that matter

[small garnet]

Not realy accurate sins it has far more ammo in it belt than 50 round that drum in its side realy had. Ans so for 42 need nerf in its belt leght.

[static hedge]

I mean they could make it like real life where the barrel heats up and ur unable to fire.

[elder plover]

how about no on everything you just said. lets leave things as they were and working.

[gentle hinge]

Skill issue

[sudden sorrel]

Skill issue

[summer reef]

Yeah, no. Smoke doesnt render after 400 meters and you can yeet 100 rounds in 5 seconds with mg42 from 400+ making fighting back close to impossible if the machine gunner has sights on you because of the supress effect. Combine this with glitch spots and the buildings rendering distance limit which makes the machine gunner pretty much invisible and you're not having a good time. U can see this in comp scene where mgs dominate

[iron venture]

What if they add a barrel overheat system so you have to fire it in long bursts rather than holding down the button?

[cursive jackal]

Map design isnt a reason to nerf weapons. It a characteristic of that map you going to be mowed down my MGs on both UK maps.

[quick summit]

It’s almost like this is exactly how it was irl! And it’s really not the powerful doesnt hit nearly as hard or as accurate as the mg34, mg 42 is great for area denial and suppression at range, so I guess just cope with it 🤷‍♂️or get good lol

[tawdry harness]

I will be absolutely okay if they Nerf the ammo capacity for the mg42, it is not accurate to the reality of that gun.

But overall it is fine, the only Nerf it needs is to its ammo capacity, it should just be the 50 round maximum.

[old wasp]

Dont want to flex, but everyone can do this with a little positioning, this is taken from a 55 minute Game on a public server on Alamein, im quite confident i can get 200 kills plus on that map in a 90 minute game, just no fun, im an MG enjoyer, but i also think it is way to strong compared to its counterparts. 50 bullets would be a good one, the Mag it has ingame did only have 50 Bullets. Edit due to cooldown: we won 5:0 after 55 minutes and the Enemy team had plenty tanks, died 3 times to them.

[tame tiger]

But did you win the game? And how effective were the enemy team's tanks?

[hard junco]

I think limiting the MG-42 to only 50 rounds would be too extreme. Part of why you was able to get all those kills on El Alamein is because the map is so open. Foy is a very open map and very easy to rip and tear with MGs, even with the M1919A6. That is a big reason why a lot of people including myself avoid playing Foy. I think they should add kind of a sand storm affect to El Alamein to limit visibility. They could maybe tweak the accuracy of the MG-42 slightly but like I said before, the 50 rounds thing is too extreme of a nerf.

[dull widget]

you gotta take into account the MG42 had a crew of 3:
The gun operator (who shot the gun)
The assistant, who helped load the gun
and optionally someone to defend their position or carry extra ammo.
Since in game u only have 1 person (cuz lets be honest, it would suck playing as an ammo carrier all game next to the guy doin all the shooting), it compensates by increasing the amount of rounds

[rain dune]

It’s only vs the brits. The problems are the brits and their two maps not the mg42

[gentle hinge]

I like the idea of a heated barrel simulation.
I don't quite like the idea of reducing ammo capacity but in case they do: Rising storm 2 allows to choose the ammunition capacity in exchange for mobility and handling. You can carry an M60 with ammo boxes for a 60 round cap. or a belt for shooting 100 uninterrupted rounds down range.

There should however be a few more ways to survive an encounter with an MG. Not so much counters to the MGs but more options along with fixes to gameplay in case MGs remain the same. (When I say MG I mean all Machine Guns)

-Have defensive positions cost less supply or add a foxhole digging mechanic (This is too radical to implement considering the new dev team and current roadmap)
-Update the render distance of smoke
-Add a slight suppression effect decrease when prone to allow players at least 1 second to assess where the fire is coming from to allow return fire
-Increase Suppression effect for machine-gunners in bipod position, this will make return fire from rifle squads slightly more effective. Add crouch while bipod placed like in other games (example Rising Storm 2)
-Increase weapon spread when firing continuously for long periods of time. This can be implemented along the barrel heating mechanic
-add rifle grenades to kill gunners within rifle grenade distance (250 yards=230m). Again a little to extreme of a change given the roadmap. (I have no clue about their prominence in the respective armies and fields of operation)
-Increase bullet drop for machine guns, indirect machine gun fire was a thing in ww2

However the best fix I can think of is, just don't walk into a kill zone...

[small garnet]

It's same thing with soviets and even US can have hard time in some maps. Also it is bit odd that new mgs have realistic ammo count but old guns have way more than they should.

[quick summit]

Add the Vickers Machine gun

[fair cipher]

Mirage blur

it's unique and makes sense instead of 'fog' or 'clouds'

[echo heron]

The current MG42 in game has a 200 round drum which as it is currently modeled is not accurate in the slightest, the drum modeled is a 50-60 round drum

[cobalt coyote]

MG42 on new desert map is proper OP. No complaints as if I die three times in a row from the same MG after spawning in on the same spawn, then it’s a me problem.

[old wasp]

I think I need to record gameplay, there is no time to react, my first 10 bullets kill at every range up to 500m where player rendering ends, I have 1.5k hours 500 of them mastering my MG for Comp, it sounds cocky but any other Mg player who gets 100+ kills on every map can confirm this. Even with 50 bullet mags I’d say Mg42 wold still be pretty broken

[forest smelt]

MG42 it's a drum for belt, and it's a 100 round drum.

[candid axle]

Hmm the date doesn't sound right to me. El Alamein is listed as 23 October – 11 November 1942 on wiki. The axis had no projected force in Africa after early 1943. There were technically a handful of MG42s at El Alamein but the majority were produced in 1943 onward.

Overall I'm fine with it being there. The real issue is the tanks. Germans should be pz4 at best, and more realistically pz2 and pz3. That's if we care about realism which is hit or miss for people. If we don't, then regardless, Brits need a buff.

[summer reef]

Thanks for input Kieran!

I dont have an answer to this discussion but i think its good to hear different opinions and it's something we have discussed about alot in our clan internally (FLL).

Also I want to emphasize that in my original post I am NOT talking about El Alamein only, but other open area maps aswell.

In my opinion something should be done if the developers want to keep pushing open area maps to the game.

Smaller mag size might help the issue a bit. I think it is clearly mg42 related rather than mgs overall, since i dont struggle with mgs when I am playing as GER myself.

[winged otter]

think the mg42 need a higher time to kill than other MG's.
When all other MG's do have an time to kill at 200m with 1 body hit and over 200m with 2 body hits the MG42 need a time to kill by 1 body hit less than 50m, 2 body hits 50-100m, 3 body hits 100-200 and 4 body hits 200+.

maybe sounds a bit weird at the begining but with the candence from the MG42 that can be a solution. cause as we all know you often get 2-3 or more hitmarks when you shoot at enemys 200+m away with the MG42 but how often you have more than 1 hitmark doing it with the browning or DP

[solemn widget]

There is ton of ways to balance the mg's like:

• Give the Germans correct amount of ammo. (50 per drum or smaller belt)
• Add overheating based on the rate of fire. This would make the 42 and 34 overheat faster than counterparts.
• reduce the amount of ammo they they carry
• Make the guns less accurate in general (all the guns not just mg's)

[proven reef]

I think el al is a brits rifles and lewis gun suck issue more than the mg42 is too op issue, you can shoot a long way but people should reasonably be able to shoot back as well but it feels ludicrously hard to hit anything at long range with the brit rifles versus the 98k and the lewis gun suffers from the same issue, along with a teeny magazine

for the older maps, its a "don't run out in front of the MG position" issue and MGs are on the whole very easy to spot and shoot

[old wasp]

Trust me, good Mgs arent easy to kill on any map, if you worked out positions, easy to get 100 kills every game, not as bad as on Alamein, but still OP

[winged otter]

the reason why you feel its hard to hit something with the brit rifels is that they are wrong centered. if you play as SL class as british you can use the rifle like the K98 cause the center is the same. if you play normal infantry the center is higher. so always you play as british inf you have to aim mire to the bottom than as SL or with the other factions to hit the same spot.
you can test it by ping again a wall as british SL and as British normal inf. the ping will not be at the same place

but its not just that. its like the russians cause axis do have lots more semi auto rifles. we had an event at the patchday. normal this event is a 90min game mostly 3:2 for one or the other side. at this time with the same balacing there was only 1 british sniper in the top 10 players list and the first british inf guy was placed 16th.
all the axis players did their kills with G43, STG or MG42 (also MG 42 players were place 2-4 place 1 was arty).

since bolt action rifles do have no advantage compared to most semo auto weapons the semi auto weapon is always better. same damage model but semi auto do have a higher cadence. also the MG42. it is easyer to fight highrange with the Mg42 as it is with other MG's cause of the cadence and the same time to kill. when you hit 4 times with the MG42 you can be lucky to make 1 hit with an other MG.

but that is all we talked 1-2 years ago and the devs did not care about and also players who do only play HLL at public servers and never joined weekly events or played comp matches said that this all doesnt matter.
i am happy that they have at el alamein now the same expirince the players who play weekly events and play competetive have since 2-3 years.

[tough basin]

skill issue comments are gold 🤣

as well btw, MG42 is broken compared to other MGs

edit: fair and valid point doodle

[candid axle]

This is a common issue with MG42s in video games. They're given the 1200 rpm which is technically how fast it could fire, but in real war scenarios it was most commonly intentionally reduced to 900 rpm to save on ammunition and fix its issue of chewing through barrels at higher speeds. This reduction is of course never transferred into video games because it's more fun for MG42 to go brrrrrrrrrrrr

[past holly]

Imagine trying to nerf the most iconic gun in the game cuz you’re just trash at finding good cover lol

[past holly]

leave mg42 alone, nothing needs to be changed

[proven warren]

They should put overheating on the gun to force bursting

[languid sparrow]

Honestly mg42 is so bad, they should increase magazine capacity by 150 and fire rate up to 1800 rpm, and make it so you can aim down sights without deploying the bipod mount

[dark willow]

bad suggestion either leave the mg as it is or add barrel changes for all mgs that need it

I actually just got a good idea, add the 50 round drum mag for the mg42 and the 150 or 250 round belt in a static placeable mg42 on a tripod. (also means add static mgs)

@summer reef Imagine trying to nerf the most iconic gun in the game cuz you’re just trash at finding good cover lol 🗿

[raw river]

It’s almost like this is exactly how it was Irl!
That’s completely false, the Gurttrommel assault drum (the drum for the MG42 and 34) only holds 50 rounds, whereas in the game it holds 250 rounds for the MG42, and holds only 125 rounds for the MG34 (??), despite being the same drum. Anyway, 250 round drums is completely historically inaccurate and this was not how it was irl.
MG42 is great for area denial and suppression at range, so i guess just cope with it or get good lol
That’s completely false as well, the MG42 was garbage for suppression or area denial purposes, and was outclassed by most other MG’s in this regard. The obscene fire rate means that you could only get 2 (two) seconds of firing time out of an assault drum before needing to reload, which is a massive amount of down-time and renders the gun completely useless for suppression. Compare this to an m1919 that can blanket a field for 30 seconds straight before needing to reload.

It got so bad that the Germans literally had to write into field manuals, forbidding MG42 gunners from holding down the trigger, and only permitting tap firing or 3-5 round bursts.

[quick summit]

I disagree

[summer reef]

Why even post? It just tells everyone that you are either ignorant or not very experienced in the game. Keep it constructive please.

[glad kite]

I can assure you the mg42 is the supreme mg at range . The max engagement in HLL is capped at 500m for the MG's. Character model doesn't render past that. The high fire rate allows 3 shots to hit a small area (body/head) in quick succession.

[tough basin]

the bad takes in this post are unreal 🤣

There is a reason that 90% of the time a blueberry cries 'cheater' it's actually just an MG42 sitting on a roof shooting them from Narnia

[compact sinew]

This. people claiming historical accuracy to justify this post are just silly. Was the MG42 good? yes. Did it have the magical features it has in this game? No. Reduce its mags to 50 rounds.

[dull widget]

legitimately had someone on Alamein start talking about how "this kid was cheating" with an MG at 400 meters

[past holly]

So taking away the MG42 is constructive to you? Gimme a break

[raw river]

Alright, on what grounds do you disagree? Can you refute my points or be otherwise constructive?

[quick summit]

I agree with ur points that it is not historically accurate in game. But I believe it is most likely necessary to the game to be accurate and fast firing. However rather than 50 rounds I believe the magazine size should be lowered to 100

[harsh acorn]

its only OP on el elimen

[last abyss]

heres what they can do.
Reduce the ammo for MG42 and MG34 to only 50 per drum. Add a variant of the MG42 and 34 without the drum and with a large belt instead, either doubling the ammo to 100 or a little more at the cost of less reserve.
Add an overheating and barrel changing mechanic requiring the MG42 and 34 users to fire in bursts else they will have to stop and change barrel frequently. And increase suppression for all weapons, aswell as making it so bullets simply passing close to people suppresses them (as currently im pretty sure it only suppresses if a bullet lands near a target) making suppressing fire a viable tactic.
And of course fix bipods

[thorn marten]

Limiting the ammo per drum is a good idea. Most people I know complained about the DP mainly because of its magazine size (in comparison) to the MG34/42.
The ammo count in total is also really large. I remember when people still dropped ammo for MGs sometimes.

[devout crown]

Return during the WWll and complain with the German cause "your MG42 is too powerful" xD

[quick summit]

Yeah that’s why this is the first time this has really caught on

[vale sleet]

"MG42 is simply too powerful"
Thats... the point?
Its not a M1919 or Bren. Its a fast firing Machine Gun made by one of the most power hungry countries of WW2..

[hard junco]

The MG-42 was not really as accurate only with the bipod as it is in HLL. There are plenty of anecdotes from WW2 of MG-42 gunners trying to hit soldiers but they missed an absurd number of shots. It was far better at suppressing than actually hitting pin point targets. The Germans did develop a tripod mount for the MG-42 that did make it much more accurate but with the bipod, the MG-42 was kind of a bouncy mess.

[zealous ibex]

Depends if you’re bursting, or just mag dumping.

[devout crown]

Every nation have something powerful, stop crying for one accurate gun

[deft cape]

MG42 is great

[clever vigil]

Meanwhile bipod mounting is broken. The mg classes have a reloading bug too apparently making it unable to be reloaded

[raw river]

“MG42 is simply to powerful” That’s… the point?
Are you suggesting that it being unrealistically powerful is the point? It should have 50 round belts and all MG’s should have barrel overheating

[vale sleet]

That's my only complaint, it should be overheating as a sort of balance, but as a MG that you have to earn i think it's fair

[small garnet]

Limitting ammo on mg42/34 and1919 to realitic numbers could also give some meaning for tripod mounted mgs to be added. Also limitting ammo would be far easyer to do than adding overheat and it would still have same effect to push people use short burst more and adding more down time to mg as you need to reload more offen

[quick summit]

No it’s the opposite actually, with the mg42 I have the ability to force the gun to reload itself without actually having to go through the whole animation 😎

[raw river]

It was far better at suppressing
That’s just false, the MG42 was garbage for suppression, as i’ve already stated

[echo heron]

but it's not accurate

[zealous ibex]

I think the MG42 is awful for suppression, it runs dry really fast obviously.

If you want a gun for suppression, a slower fire rate would be ideal (not too slow tho).

The goal is to keep enemy heads down, not run out of bullets in a couple of seconds lmao.

[clever flower]

All I read from this is Slowly kill the game ✅

[devout crown]

https://youtube.com/shorts/45ow9ByV7eY?feature=share

When I saw this ......the MG42 in hll is just realist

[still niche]

If you want a slower rate of fire, use bursts rather than going cyclic (which would overheat / damage the barrel, in reality)

[zealous ibex]

The idea of suppression is continuous fire so that way the enemy won’t try to move.

While you can use burst for suppression, it isn’t very ideal in my opinion. As the enemy could exploit that pattern and surprise you.

But admittedly I do not have battle experience, so I could be wrong.

[tame tiger]

Burst fire allows you to maintain suppression longer and infantry doctrine supports this. In the games context, i would recommend changing up pace of when you are firing if you feel you are getting predictable

[plush laurel]

Interesting I find that I get like 20 hits and 1-2 kills with mg42 - I thought it was fine ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tepid oak]

Cry cry cry

[runic dagger]

😂

[devout crown]

XD

[echo heron]

I am curious why people are so vehemently against balancing the MG42? it's currently not very realistic and due to that it is very very powerful. making users of it reload more often allows counter play against it. along with that it is as accurate if not more accurate than the M1919. and I will say, the DP-27 is currently the least accurate MG in the game, and has the lowest velocity despite the fact it uses a cartridge of similar power and velocity to it's contemporaries.
the MG42 ultimately lacks many of the down sides that other MGs have. it has the same magazine, reload, and damage as the M1919 while being more accurate and double the fire rate. considering all of these aspects why should the MG42 not be balanced?

[thorn marten]

The accuracy of all 3 Mgs you mention is the same. DP one shots up until 150m though, the others till around 100m.

[raw river]

That’s because you dump into bodies. Those still count as hits

[plush laurel]

That explains a lot

[dark willow]

do not nerf mg 42, just add barrel swap 🗿

[zinc rose]

the German MG, in game, has nothing real, except the rate of fire, but precisely for this reason it was less accurate than the Browning, in HLL instead it has become a sniper weapon (you also want with the addition of various cheats to use it), an important thing and not simulated in HLL is the overheating of the barrel, the game does not take this into account, allowing you to fire several magazines in sequence without suffering any defect, in short, the favorite weapon of campers and lovers of kills

[obtuse dove]

What💀 “you also want the addition of various cheats to use it” what u mean by that huh?

[fair cipher]

That's nerfing it :p

[pseudo cove]

Either just overheating or also barrel swapping, if it is easy to implement. Never understood why this wasn't in the game in the first place.

[tepid oak]

Teamwork mechanics are fun, make barrel swaps extremely quick with a loader/barrel-swapper

[crystal spear]

As much as a dumpster fire as it was even BF5 had barrel swapping

[modern kayak]

I’m fine with the mg42 until El Alamein then screw the mg42 lol anyways a lot of ya are saying why wasn’t barrel swapping implemented in HLL well it was….. you use to carry two barrels and if ya blazed away the gun would stop working then they scrapped it…. Why I dunno? Wish they would bring it back personally

[small wadi]

How do you camp in HLL its called defending bro 💀

[rain dune]

I could write an essay about how this game works but since it would be a waste of time i‘ll say "camper take" and leave it at that.

[strange pebble]

Only on El alamein. Otherwise it's fine.

[zinc rose]

camping in defense does not implement the use of aimbot, crosshairs on the screen or other various gimmicks, this only ruins all the games and the same players who would just like to have a healthy game of their favorite game, you will not be convinced that HLL is a pardoned game come on cheaters?
jakobsheim#9193 well said, let's all camper and turn the game into trench warfare so many are happy 🤣

[golden eagle]

I mean, I hate being mowed down by an MG42 but in real life they were ridiculously overpowered too, it only makes sense that they can mow down battalions of people in game too. If anything buff the Yank, Russian and British MG's a tiny bit too

[still niche]

It's even more overpowered in-game, because the one person can carry all 1500 rounds of ammo on their own.

[small wadi]

Not my problem. I have no issue with the mg42 when I die to it I say that's tough and move on. If you have a good SL who actually uses his binoculars usually you can just ping the dude and shoot the ping and he dies. If you're not suppressed. Not op just get good idk

[zinc rose]

what does having a good SL have to do with what I wrote?, you can also have all the saints who assist you, against those who play dirty you have no chance

[raw river]

in real life they were ridiculously overpowered too, it only makes sense that they can mow down battalions of people in game too.
That’s completely false, MG42’s constantly overheated and destroyed barrels, were notoriously inaccurate, and were terrible for suppression. The MG42 is possibly the single most overrated firearm in human history.

[golden eagle]

Yet they killed thousands of Brit, Yank and Russian troops

[last abyss]

I assure you, almost of the most used weapons in the war killed thousands of people on the other side.

[brave elm]

You can't take an MG42 out of a WW2 game.

[compact sinew]

Its honestly bizarre that the MG42 (and MG34) gets magical 50 round drums with 250 rounds of ammunition, but the DP-27 and Lewis gun are limited to their actual ammo counts. I get peoples subjective feelings about the MG42 as supposedly a good gun IRL, but even so, its not magic. It has 50 round drums and the game should properly reflect that.

OR the other MGs should get that same magic mags treatment.

[tidal hawk]

are you kidding me? will there be a reason if in 2023 armies like the Italian, German and Spanish ones still use it as an infantry weapon or support weapon on wheeled vehicles, tanks and helicopters? Change the game, take my advice.
One thing i would like to see instead is the barrel change.

https://youtu.be/MwjZCdaudww

[reef siren]

the barrel change has already been modelled in HLL since early access, never implemented

[still niche]

It'd be nice if there were 50 round drums, and a 250 round linked-belt, which required barrel swap after 150 rounds of cyclic/rapid fire, which can only be avoided by sustained rate (short bursts)

Edit: to clarify, drum would give you increased mobility, belts only available from mounted posture

[quick summit]

This is actually nice, but I would also offer that things like jams and barrel swaps should be implemented over adjusting ammo I think. Changing the ammo and also handicapping the weapon would probably ruin the weapon for gameplay, part of the reason the Germans aren’t terrible with so many bolt action rifles is because they have an amazing set of LMGs

[celest cloak]

[echo heron]

I'd definitely prefer the more realistic

[hard junco]

The most realistic option would be to give the MG-42 and MG-34 belts instead of drums. Drums were rarely used and they were only used for transportation purposes. Limiting the MG-42 to only 50 rounds would nerf it into the ground also. I think it needs a nerf to recoil or accuracy but the 50 rounds thing is too extreme.

[raw river]

Source on Gurttrommel assault drums being rare and only used for transport? Because there are an absolute plethora of period photographs of soldiers using Gurttrommel drums in combat.

The MG34/42 should be made to be realistic, and if they are nerfed “into the ground” because of it, then so be it. Perhaps people will see it for the overrated piece of junk that it is

[quick summit]

I say make it more powerful, give me 500 continuous rounds. I want explosive ammunition, and decreased recoil

[crystal spear]

4 or 5 150 round belts should be fine. When I operated a MG42 in reenactments that's about how much I would carry since my A gunner was hefty guy and couldn't keep up when changing positions in tactical events.

[delicate cedar]

Sounds like recon isnt doing their job.

[deft python]

Imagine complaining about MG-42 because does what it does

[fair cipher]

I think more people are complaining about the comparison between it and the British machine gun where the British machine gun has real life value ammo and the mg42 has a magical elf ammo drums

[raw river]

Imagine complaining about MG-42 because does what it does
It has 250 rounds in a drum that holds 50 IRL.
If this is okay then surely the same reasoning can be used to increase the 47 round pan on the Lewis to be 300 rounds, or increase the bren mag from 30 to 150 rounds.
It’s absolute nonsense, every gun should have historically accurate drums/mags/belts.

[thorn marten]

Yeah the ammo in the magazine should be adjusted. But its not going to nerf It much. Maybe it causes some people to be a little more inclined to give other MGs a chance. DP and Lewis Gun (after sight fix).

[dense acorn]

It absolutely will nerf it because then its more in line with what everyone else has

[soft topaz]

PLEASE NEVER NERF THIS GUN !!
PLEASE NEVER NERF THIS GUN !!

THEY CHANGE SPEED RUNNING NOT NERFING THE MOST ICONIC GUN OF WW2

[royal jetty]

MG's are not really effective anymore since the nerfs before you could lock down whole areas of a map with coordinated suppression fire with a spotter wreck havoc now its feels like its none existent once you open fire you will get dinged unless your in close quarters on a choke point or blind spot with support.

[rain dune]

It’s not funny if you’re trolling to obviously.

[median trellis]

nonsense do not take the MG42 out the game......MG42 was part of ww2....what needs to be done with the mg42 is make the MG42 team have to change out the barrels. Because in real life , the barrels would get to hot at times

[solemn widget]

There hasn't been any nerf to mg's, like ever. Maybe that you cant prone inside the objects anymore, but the gun has always remained the same

[dark willow]

Uh, having to brace was a nerf

[compact sinew]

The suppression change way back when was a nerf to MGs. I think that's what he's talking about

[small garnet]

I don't see anyone asking removing mg from game only bring it on libe with other mgs that have to deal with realistic ammo count and it should not be just mg42 that get this tratment but 34 and 1919 also

[dusty bramble]

Implemented correctly?
I am pretty sure 1 German soldier did not have that much ammo and never need a barrel swap ...

[royal jetty]

barrel change is over exaggerated depending on the gunner and conditions, a barrel change could be required as often as every 200 to 250 rounds from full rapid fire for a mg42. Ammunition boxes contained 250-300 rounds in five to six 50-round belts what could be linked. barrel life was around 3500-8000 rounds. both browning and German mgs overheated and needed a feeder and carried spare barrels and German mg where easier quicker swap out the barrel

[soft topaz]

If barrel change is hadded realisticaly we have only a few barrel so when you are out of barrel you cant shoot anymore

But a animation like BFV Can be cool.

Or even just add overheating system you need to shoot a amount of time and if you shoot too long you need to wait for the barrel to cooldown

[raw river]

MG42’s required much more frequent barrel changes due to the rate of fire. Also as long as Gurttrommel drums are being used, MG34/42 belts should only be 50 rounds

[dull widget]

Heres a creative way to solve this whole mag drum stuff

Mag drum with 50 rounds ONLY when you are hip firing.

When you set down the gun, you can have it belt fed, thus increasing the amount to what it is today.

This would prevent ppl from messing around with an MG on the hip, but keep its strengths when mounted by not using the drum. Could potentially add extra set up time and stuff, who knows...

BUT ultimately I still dont think the MG needs a change

[echo heron]

the issue isn't people using it in hipfire, it's issue is being able to dump hundreds of rounds in a matter of seconds with pinpoint accuracy

[solemn widget]

Okay i forgot that one. but it only affects close range. Supression nerf didnt really affect the mg, because usually who kills you, isn't the player you shoot. (Fucking 2h slowmod)

[dark willow]

Newsflash, that’s kind of what a mounted mg42 does

[buoyant goblet]

Just take out one of the most revolutionary weapons of the last century….that’s brilliant.

[worthy gulch]

At minimum the mg42 could lose its invisible 250 round belt and load from the 50 round box in the model. Or the UK and Soviet MGs could be given the same magic 250 round belt as the mg42.

Ammo management could also be added to the game so players have to deal with partial mags/belts.

[fathom blade]

Remove all british guns we all know we only stab ppl

[echo heron]

What was revolutionary about it? Genuine question. I've heard people say it created the universal machine gun but I'd say that belongs more to the mg34 or M1919
(Bren was typo/misremembering)

[still niche]

MG34 may have been the first, but the MG42 well and truely supplanted it, is still in use today (MG 3), and inspired others such as the M60.

As for the Bren, highly doubtful, despite being chambered for 7.62 post WW2 many Commonwealth nations opted for the M60 instead.

I see you edited Bren to M1919, which despite being also rechambered, was supplanted by the M60 too, rather than a Browning design.

Update: the design itself was revolutionary not only because of the high RoF, but the cheaper manufacturing process, which used minimal machined and milled parts, and as many pressed or stamped sheet metal parts as possible. One could argue it was an evolution of the MG34, but the MG42 was revolutionary in itself becoming a generational design still in use today 80 years later.

[raw river]

I still don’t see what was revolutionary about it. Some guns were inspired by it is the best you have?

[zealous ibex]

Dude, the MG42 had the highest fire rate of any MG we have ever seen before (back in those times).

That’s what was revolutionary about it.

[fair cipher]

MG34 was still the superior Machinegun, just not as popular

@still niche 34 was a better designed but more expensive machinegun

42 was cheaper to manufacture and because of looser tolerances, was more widely used

As someone said "The MG34 is a Swiss Watch, the MG42 is the Chinese knock-off that works just as well"

[still niche]

Didn’t 34’s tighter tolerance make it less reliable? AFAIK the 42 barrel swap was also more convenient.

[worthy gulch]

There was a really interesting novel about how a lot of German equipment that was revolutionary and has a mythology built around actually failed at the operational level (mg42, panther, etc) for being over complicated, over engineered, unreliable, and difficult to maintain. So despite cool stats they were ineffective and failures.

[quick summit]

More like mg34/mg42 created the SAW

[opaque zinc]

SAW? are you sure you don't mean GPMG?

wouldn't the first SAW be considered the RPD?

[prisma jasper]

lol it has already been nerfed by needing 2 hits to kill (sometimes 3) at most distances, despite firing the same round as a K98. There's a reason it was the most feared smallarm of the war... a title it certainly doesn't live up to in HLL, only really being good on El Alamein, and that because rifles also need 2 hits to kill past 200m ingame (common on El Alamein), which is equally ridiculous.

[pseudo forum]

I feel this is the best balance. The most overpowered thing about the MG42 relative to real life is that you can brrr your way through 6 drums of 250 at full auto then reload and do it again with the same barrel. Adding overheating or barrel changing would be cool, i think.

[worthy gulch]

Six 50 round drums that hold 250 rounds inexplicably

[static hedge]

2 Words SKILL ISSUE

[tepid nova]

Its been animated and done for awhile, I don't think it'll ever be implemented though because it can't be done with the American MG and the Soviet/British MG don't have the magazine size.

At the very least for high capacity MGs there should be an animation to show the barrels hot and steam obscuring vision. Maybe make the recoil harder to control until you stop and wait a moment

[still niche]

Could also make the trajectory less accurate for hot/overheated barrels; or since the MG42 mag size is already magical, why not just magically buff the Allied MGs?

[raw river]

Dude, the MG42 had the highest fire rate of any MG we have ever seen before. That’s what was revolutionary about it.
That’s a complete lie, electric gatling guns have been able to achieve 1500 rpm since the 1800’s (which is the same rpm as the Mg42 on the highest setting). Aircraft machine guns have had that rate of fire since WW1, such as the Villar Perosa with 1500rpm. And same with the Browning m1919 (from 1919) with 1500rpm.

The excessive rate of fire as seen in the MG42 is completely undesirable in an infantry ground mount. The M1919 could achieve the same rpm as an MG42 but they specifically lowered it to 400-600rpm because it is far more desirable and combat effective to do so.
The MG42’s fire rate did nothing but lead to constant overheating, destroyed barrels, wildly inaccurate volleys, massive ammunition expenditures and a complete inability to perform suppressive fire (which is the main purpose of an MG). The MG42, in real life, is the single most overrated piece of junk known to man.

[quick summit]

More like it’s power was realized because of how the Germans deployed those machine guns, squads were built around the machine gun rather than the standard rifleman, it wasn’t a SAW in the technical sense cuz it was still two man operated, but it shaped how militaries would shape the squad weapons and would eventually lead to the creation of the SAW

[opaque zinc]

"More like it’s power was realized because of how the Germans deployed those machine guns, squads were built around the machine gun rather than the standard rifleman"

I'm pretty sure every nation shaped it's squad around the machine gun since WW1

also if it isn't operable by one man, how did it lead to the SAW then? this is why I said the RPD was the first SAW instead

[echo heron]

one word: Propaganda
A lot of the "information" on the effectiveness of famous nazi weapons are heavily exaggerated due to propaganda which is still effective even today. when we take into account the actual records of the troops using them and testing by other nations it's been shown most german weapons were not performing to the level portrayed by propaganda. while yes the MG42 has been modernized and is still currently used also take into account it's not used in the same role as it was before, it is no longer an infantry weapon but almost exclusively on vehicles.

[prisma jasper]

Gotta be real with you: The only one falling for propoganda here is you Solaire. Fact is the MG42 was extremely effective IRL, so much so that it's still used to this day chambered in 7.62 NATO, known as the MG3. I operated this gun whilst serving in the army, and I can assure you it is in NO WAY overrated (and no, it's not just a vehicle mounted weapon, it's used by the infantry as well). Infact it was effective to the point that the Allies tried to downplay its effectiveness (as their frontline troops were hitting the dirt by the mere sound of the thing) by creating a propoganda instruction film, where they tried to convince their own troops that the MG42's "bark was worse than its bite" and that it was inaccurate. This film did a lot more harm than good however, as reality was the opposite of what it was trying to convey. Fact is the MG42 is just as accurate as an M1919 or Bren Gun, it just shoots faster. So please, stop spewing all this misinformation Solaire, as a former soldier who operated this gun IRL it's incredibly cringe to read the biased garbage you and Mr Comrade_Commissar are spewing.

[rustic gorge]

The real issue with the MGs are the sheer amount of ammunition you can bring all by yourself
It falls between 1250 and 1500 ammo for US and AXIS MGs...

A quarter of that would already be enough to be effective and would not be so much that you can stay 400m behind the frontline and spray for half the game in one sitting.

There is 250 rounds in a mag of MG42 or Browning. So with a 10% precision rate (average for an MG i'd say), you can still get like 25 hits, so around 10-15 kills. You have 6 magazines, so you can range between 60-90 kills in one life (Assuming you are well positioned and all blabla).

In my opinion, it is not too hard to achieve around 30 kill streaks consistently, and the few times I play MG42 (even on regular maps, not bs like Foy or El alamein) I easily get around 100 kills per game without ever feeling a lack of ammunition....

The real issue with the MGs is not the amount of kills they can get, it is how independent they are compared to the effectiveness in locking areas they provide.
Imagine if these MGs had like 2 drums/belts, so around 500 ammo.
Again with 10% precision, you can get 50 hits, so around 20-30 kills in one sitting.
That is still quite powerful I would say, but then you would need either a redeploiment, or a support to drop ammunition.
It would make the game healthier, the ammo boxes more useful, the MG would still be has effective but less dominant, and would enforce teamplay.
You would then be an asset for your team that needs help from you support, just as an AT with rockets and cannons.

[raw river]

Who you are has no bearing on the discussion, only what you say. The fact that you are a former soldier who used the MG3 only makes you more likely to have a personal bias on the topic and thus arguably less credible.

Also The MG3 is not the same as the MG42. The MG42 fires 1500rpm whereas the MG3 fires 950rpm, which is substantially better. That said, the MG3 is still incapable of sustained fire due to it’s excessive fire rate and thus cannot meaningfully suppress enemy infantry, so it still fails at main job of a LMG/GPMG.

Fact is the MG42 is just as accurate as the bren
That is straight false. Due to the truly excessive rate of fire, the heat would cause the barrel to undergo thermal expansion, which results in the bore expanding and the rifling not providing nearly as good of a seal on the ball, and thus wildly inaccurate volleys. Many war memoirs of soldiers facing MG42’s can attest to this.

It just shoots faster
You couldn’t do any meaningful suppression because you’d spend more time changing barrels or reloading the damn thing than actually firing. And it was generally only issued with 50 round drums, which nets you literally two seconds of firing time before needing to reload. The excessive fire rate only served to constantly burn out barrels, to the extent where they literally banned dumping belts. If you read your training manual, you’d know that you’re only allowed to tap fire, which undermines the whole point of having an LMG in the first place, which is suppression. The only thing that matters when it comes to suppression is how many rounds you can consistently dump downrange, and the MG42 fails at this spectacularly, due to the constant pauses between reloading every two seconds and barrel changes (assuming you have any ammo and barrels left, which is unlikely considering how fast this thing goes through both).

[still niche]

If you read your training manual, you’d know that you’re only allowed to tap fire, which undermines the whole point of having an LMG in the first place, which is suppression. The only thing that matters when it comes to suppression is how many rounds you can consistently dump downrange, and the MG42 fails at this spectacularly.

This is kind of nonsense, even the M1919 could only sustainably fire at 60-120rpm, so this was kinda everyone’s doctrine with air cooled MGs.

You can swap a barrel out in 2-3 seconds; how quickly can you do that after you’ve over cooked an M1919 barrel?

[small wadi]

It's not that bad when shot in short bursts. Sustained fire is basically impossible, the 34 is way better but more expensive. I think the main reason it's so hyped up is just how brutal it was when actually shooting infantry, ripping people up, also why it gots its nickname.

[prisma jasper]

You shouldnt speak on topics you have no expertize on, and dont mention bias when your username litterally screams that you're a Soviet fanboy. Back on topic, first of all the MG3 fires at 1200-1300 rpm using the std. bolt weight, 900 rpm is the cyclic rate when using the heavy bolt, which is basically reserved for vehicle coaxials and isnt the standard for infantry. Next the MG42 was not generally issued with drums, infact assault drums were comparatively rare. Std. loadout were linked 100 & 150 rnd belts. Also the practical rate of fire is the same for basically every MG, around 150 rpm, hence you will be firing in bursts with a Bren gun as well. Youre not going to be dumping ammo just holding down the trigger the whole time like in some dumb hollywood movie. Infact since the Bren features a thinner barrel it will heat up faster for every round fired (there's a reason it also comes with a quick change system). Finally when a barrel heats up it expands in all directions, so the seal on the bullet isnt lost - the point at which you loose accuracy is if you allow the barrel to become hot enough that the metal becomes malleable and the rifling is litterally torn away and you now have yourself a smoothbore. This doesnt happen if you 1. keep within the 150-200 rounds pr minute practical limit, and 2. if you remember to swap barrels every 250 rounds (i.e. once every std 250 rnd belt container. If you follow these guidelines no accuracy is lost, and the MG3 (& MG42) is just as accurate as any other LMG. Stop spreading BS

ROFS realist: Yes, boxes with 5x 50 belts were also normal, but soldiers would typically link them together into 100 and 150 rnd belts in the box, esp. when in a static defensive position. In some cases they would run one long 250 rnd "fortress belt" direct from the box, when used in the HMG role on a tripod.

[tawdry jay]

Just give it a belt Animation like the Browning then

[still niche]

Std. loadout were linked 100 & 150 rnd belts.

I thought they were 5x50 round belts per 250 round box? (I've read they also had 300 round boxes, but I'm not that familiar with them)

[fair cipher]

So with that in mind @prisma jasper, we can agree 50 round drums for the MG42 would be perfect since they are not a stationary garrison MG nor a HMG tripod mount position

I still support giving the MG34 the 100round double drum to have a use over the MG42(but less total ammo)

[small wadi]

I mean even with the 50 round drums an MG team usually carried 100s of rounds

[crystal trench]

I think nerfing MG capacity to just 50 rounds is overcope, since all that does is make the user pull out an unholy amount of drums just because belts on an MG were deemed too unfair. Barrel heating mechanics I think are much more worthwhile in the long term for MGs to avoid gunners just holding down the trigger with no setbacks. The differences between the MG34 and 42 are negligible enough to just be down to user preference at the current moment, so arbitrarily reducing the magazine capacities by over 50% and making the MG42 even half the capacity of a 34 would too negatively skew the choice practicality to the MG34. The point isn't to make the gunner just a worse autorifleman (which for the Germans is just a worse assault), it is to provide a class capable of fire support at a distance over open fields. It would just make playing the class more annoying for 1 specific faction (the other low capacity MGs don't blow through ammo nearly as quickly) than add meaningful depth to the class overall.

[thorn marten]

Mg34 could be made to be more of a run and gun MG. Afaik, it already is a little.

[fluid ridge]

Nah no disapling the panther, just add churchill MKVII for brits and move firefly to medium slot... and tadaa vehicle balance is fixed

[delicate cedar]

Soldiers didnt have bulletproof armor in World War 2

[quick summit]

If you read my response it explains it, I didn’t say it was the first saw I said it inspired the common use of the SAW, and not everyone built their units around the MG to the extent the Germans did

[golden eagle]

I change my mind, the MG42 needs a nerf, especially on the new desert map... being shot accurately from 500 meters away is a joke

[quick summit]

The MG42 really only reared it’s ugly OP head on El Al, I don’t recall seeing anyone ask for a nerf on it before it just shows its advantage to put a lot of rounds accurately on to#anger at range on that particular map cuz there’s no flatness with cover to the terrain. I’d appreciate some sort of weather obscurity to the map maybe some mirage heat waves or dust or fog

[strong geyser]

El Al is the only map i've ever seen having this issue and if its only on one map I think its more of the map rather than the gun which honestly if you brought the browning to the same map would probably do as good as the 42.

[worthy gulch]

You've never played a comp match on Utah then.

[thorn marten]

or Kursk or Foy or PHL or...

[surreal isle]

The beach maps have already been made too easy with the map change never mind nerfing the mg42 as well. It should be a challenge to get off the beach with a proper sense of accomplishment.

[tepid oak]

Agreed, US offensive on beach maps should be extremely difficult imo

[fair cipher]

but in contrast, can we stop spawning IN the water on both maps on warfare? spawn bottom floor, front of ship or on the dry beach? please?

[worthy gulch]

The mg42 should only be nerfed in the sense that it should load from 50 rnd boxes rather than magic 250 round belts.

Or the other MGs should get incorrect box/mag capacities.

[quick summit]

Eh it’s really not noticeable on those maps, if ur constantly getting mowed down by mg42s on those maps you need to rethink how you play those maps honestly

[frosty ermine]

If I can arrange a spot for you on our opponents team for a friendly on those maps I will

[surreal isle]

People always complained about the MG42 but it’s recently massively increased since the new map/faction and some of this is an unfair assessment due to imbalance and bugs. Before they nerf anything they should first;

• Fix the weapon sway on British weapons so it’s on par with other factions.
• Fix British weapon iron sights so it’s easier to aim at targets.
• Fix MGs glitching into rocks on El Alamein.
• Add a bi-pod onto the Bar.
• Increase Lee-Enfield rate of fire to be more accurate.
• Possibly add the British Vickers No 2 Mk I with 100 round magazine and 900 RPM

After these are fixed/added then the mg42 should be looked at again to see how much of an issue it is.

[flint kettle]

the blance is that the germans come with alot more boltys then americas semi or russias pphs spam

[still niche]

Agreed, but why limit the Vickers (or Lewis, or DP27) ammunition amounts when MG42 has a magical belt drum with 5x accurate real world ammo?

At least make the MG have to reload from drum->belt while stationary, and vice versa; same for the M1919… unlink/link the belt so you can only be mobile with ~50 rounds.

Won’t solve the fixed position MG, unless you also added barrel heating mechanics, and limited total ammunition available thus also requiring a rifleman/support to feed the MG

[worthy gulch]

Nah the only class that needs to use a bolt action is the panzershrek AT role. Support people can rotate and everyone else, who doesn't have an stg can have g43 which is probably the best gun in the game.

German faction is pretty op. Best tank. Best guns. Best launcher.

[prisma jasper]

No because 100 & 150 rnd belts were more common, the assault drums weren't. Also there are no 100 rnd drums for the MG34, you're thinking of the MG15 double drum, an aircraft MG converted into ground use. What the devs need to do IMO is model a belt for the MG42 (as on the 1919), and cap it at 150 rnds.

Also only reason people are complaining about the MG42 atm is because of two things 1) El Alamein map is an MG and Snipers paradise, and the Allies dont have the M1919 2) Rifle caliber weapons wont 1 shot past 200 m, which whilst it also unrealistically nerfs the MGs, prevents riflemen from taking out the MGs with a single shot past 200 m, allowing the MGer to hose them down.

In short it's a perfect example of unrealistic arcade damage balancing actually ruining both the realism AND the balance in the game. All the devs have to do is to look at how bullet damage was/is handled in the game whos gunplay they promised to emulate: Red Orchestra 2 = one hit to the chest by any weapon chambered in a rifle round equals death irrespective of range.

In short realistic bullet damage based on what round a weapon is chambered in, would instantly drastically improve this game. Any competent military history & firearms expert they can hire as a consultant would tell them this.

[small wadi]

^^^^

[still niche]

Agree on damage values.

[molten spear]

No, dont cry, mg42 its op as it was in ww2. The only thing that would be fair to nerf its the recoil n the accuracy. Also the problem is that the rest of the weapons a weaker, n some of them would be capable to take a buff without ruining the realism.

[worthy gulch]

It has the wrong ammo capacity in game. That could be changed.

[molten spear]

Ye that too

[crystal trench]

This is the solution^

[summer reef]

[fair cipher]

LATE to the reply but yes the MG34 did infact have a saddle-drum(75* round double drum)

[still niche]

The Patronentrommel 34 only held 75 rounds, based on, but not to be confused with the Doppeltrommel 15 (also 75 rounds?) for the MG15, which would not fit on the MG34.

[prisma jasper]

That (as you yourself clearly realized) is not a 100 round drum, and btw required a completely different top cover for the gun (because the PT34 is an actual magazine, not just a belt container like the assault drum), making it no longer able to function like a normal MG34, i.e. belt fed. Furthermore this exotic prewar modification, besides being almost noneexistant (esp. during the war), was pretty much exclusively used in the vehicle mounted or static AA defense role. So Im sure we can agree it would be pretty silly to have the MG34 (let alone the MG42 which didnt have this option) outfitted like that ingame, right? The only realistic solution is to model a belt for the MG34 & MG42 and have it be either 100 or 150 round capacity (200-250 rnd belts were not uncommon, esp. in the defense, but were not practical on the move).

[still niche]

Belts were 50 rounds and could be linked together in any length, could also come in lengths of 250, and/or in boxes of 250-300 rounds, entirely impractical length on the move, hence carried by the gun crew or distributed across the entire Gruppe (section/squad)

Many others have already mentioned the Gurttrommel could only hold one belt of 50 rounds.

Hummingbird is correct in that the 75 round (double drums) were actually magazines of unlinked (individual) rounds, which were inconvenient to load

[prisma jasper]

Most common in combat would be 100 to 150 round belts. The reason boxes often came with 5x 50 rnd belts was so that it was nice and easy to refill the assault drums - which I will add again were nowhere near as commonly used by infantry, and when they were used by infantry it was usually just ONE drum, and then immediately upon emptying it they would switch to a 100 or 150 rnd belt. EDIT: @still niche You'd usually change barrels around 200-250 rnds fired, depending on how quickly you dispensed with said rounds. If you're firing a lot using longer bursts, or shorter pauses in between bursts, thereby raising the practical RPM beyond the recommended 150 rpm, then you'd naturally also change barrels sooner, at anywhere between 100-150 rnds fired. RO2 really simulated all this very well.