mess-hall

[static granite]

We don’t need SPA … it’s utterly ridiculous. Artillery was fine the way it was.

Tanks have been screwed up since day one, but hey let’s add some SPA

[past vortex]

arty wasnt fine
but it wasnt that crazy :D

[echo karma]

I don't think I've seen a worse dev team tho tbf. How you fumble updates for 2 yrs in a row and keep your job?

[worthy charm]

It wasnt, saying that suggests you never played either Arty or recon

[echo karma]

Yes and no

[static granite]

So you got shelled ? Big deal.. it’s a ww2 game. It’s no different than the constant barrages of mortar rounds

[worthy charm]

But again consoles are always very... lets say it in a nice way: Diffrent

[shy relic]

Why does the game look like a ps1 game on ps5 and my gun is shaking uncontrollably

How are we meant to play like that I thought the whole idea of the pte was for stuff like this to not happen anymore

Don’t give us free dlcs just stop releasing half finished updates

[finite berry]

Artillery was not fine the way it was, but SPA definitely was the wrong way to go.

[cosmic pilot]

SPA proper, was not the way to go, but i'm ok with the assault guns in principle

shi needs to destroy garrisons tho

[woven trench]

Finally rolling back in after 8 months of not playing.

[fervent dagger]

Seeing as that was the original intention I bet they changed their minds after the feedback commander arty

[cosmic pilot]

because heaven forbid the meta change

[thin lotus]

The game doesn’t need more bombs from the sky capable of blowing up spawns

[woven trench]

The game needs Italians

[fervent dagger]

The thing I'm unsure about is the movement limit. Like I get they don't want spawn camping but like would it actually even be that bad if SPAs had full assess to the map?

[neat urchin]

Italian front*

[woven trench]

Yes. I'd love to see Decima MAS in the game. Heck in 44 you can have the RSI vs the Co-belligerent Army.

[I am a huge Italian history nerd.]

[broken shoal]

Thanks for ruininh RCON team 17. Now i see level 1 running to the point and solo crew tanks.

[neat urchin]

should be a mechanic that prevents a tank from being used by 1 person. Unless the commander releases the tank or something

[peak torrent]

Any improvement on the performance? In new update?

[broken shoal]

Yes if you are pc. No if you are console

[glossy echo]

Should I use dx11 instead of dx12 with gtx980, 16 GB ram and Intel i7 6700

[worthy charm]

I would say yes

[glossy echo]

Ok thanks

[peak torrent]

I hope so im about to update it i hope they fixed the micro stuttering and fos drop when using controller on pc while aiming.

[outer stone]

More stuttering on this new map than OG Stalingrad. Nice

[river rover]

Might stutter for first load and cache and might clear up. They have mentioned though that I guess there is some LOD issues with console. 🙁 Post what you can in the feedback they mentioned so they can try tracking it down.

[outer stone]

I think my LOD is fine I’m just getting bad stuttering and frames. Are you suggesting clearing the cache might help?

[river rover]

You should ALWAYS clear you cache upon every single release. Make it habit to see if it helps.

[dim snow]

It’s the same with every map they release man 😂 they’re inept.

[cyan saddle]

It's just shader compilation 🤷

I believe I've heard that they're looking into precompiling them before you load in so that it no longer needs to do so mid-round

In the meantime, once all the shaders have been compiled (i.e. you've seen all of the map), the stutters should drastically decrease

[oblique timber]

I'm excited to try out the new update when I get home! Are the servers working on console or should I wait for the new graphics update?

[proud sand]

Anyone else getting a network error after trying to start up the game from loading zone?

Connected to internet but cant seem to load in to lobby

[faint portal]

https://tenor.com/view/italian-hand-peter-griffin-parody-family-guy-gif-14887078867634565238

[cosmic pilot]

my teams, continue to be abysmal

[novel geyser]

nothing ever changes....

when they updating the team ai they never place garrisons

[dim snow]

That just doesn’t work though does it, all these maps have horrific stuttering issues. I don’t see how that’s magically going to make these maps stop stuttering

[silk igloo]

maybe it would stutter less if you could force your PC to load all assets around you... at a very stable 20 2 fps

[dim snow]

I’m on the series x

Suppose it’s back to the Normandy maps again..

[spiral current]

Played the update. Game feels the same but there's now less artillery. Excellent update. Pack it home boys we fixed it.

[cosmic pilot]

It's worse than that. My team was capping the enemy hq by minute 30 but could not pull it through and we lost less than an hour later

A complete rollback

[novel geyser]

yup

warfare sucks as a mode tbh

[cosmic pilot]

I was the commander.
30 resources a minute the entire match

[nova pivot]

Don't do it

Game is broken

[nova pivot]

It's meh

Mainly because it requires use of the brain

And most of the hll players don't have one of those

[novel geyser]

just from a sort of design perspective, its basically an hour of a half of filler unless the hq is capped

[cosmic pilot]

Sort of.
i understand the appeal of not having enough resources to go around to attack and defend at the same time, but bad teams do not appreciate that fact.

In warfare you can really get things moving dynamically with vehicles

But it's hard to get people to take advantage of it

[novel geyser]

offensive just works better as a casual mode but even that has its issues, cough cough round timer reset on cap cough cough

warfare is alright but it needs more too it I think than just cap mid or hq to win

[cosmic pilot]

What it needs is to disallow recon from precapping

[novel geyser]

yeah back caps are dumb

there has to be more systems in place to discourage being too far behind enemy lines

[cosmic pilot]

Wow look at me, I waited back here for 15min without killing any just so I can kill the commander who's running around looking at his map and has no chance of fighting back

[novel geyser]

like being more susceptible to recoil when on your own + even more when in locked enemy territory

[cosmic pilot]

Which I'm conflicted about. Once you use trucks as infantry to get around you realize how little 400m of attacking depth really is.

It's nothing.

[novel geyser]

yeah lol, I do wish transport trucks and even half tracks actually got used as transport during a match

the half track might aswell not have its extra seats and the transport is only used at the start

[cosmic pilot]

Can't because

1. Everyone has a bazooka
2. Trucks are too easy to get shot out of

[novel geyser]

wow that is a really low bar

[jaunty mauve]

Yo did they fix the game kicking you every 2 seconds with the new update

[novel geyser]

warfare is good on paper but its not great

[cosmic pilot]

Your brain on hedgerow maps

[jaunty mauve]

Offensive game mode is goated

[thin lotus]

Warfare would be better if the teams are forced reset to their respective objectives side every time a new objective is captured. The new objectives in play should function as a new “round”, with each team being brought back to their square’s on their hq side. Could even have a fortification phase before the field is opened again

[novel geyser]

nuh uh

[jaunty mauve]

Offensive used to be especially fun when everyone used mics more and you’d have the entire team of 50 screaming next to eachother instead of spread across the map

[novel geyser]

yeah lol
thats where trucks need their models swapped with supply trucks so they atleast have the visual cover and AT needs to be split into their own squad

maybe if you want to go really controversial and battlefield mentioned, let people spawn INSIDE transport trucks and half tracks even when running

but that would take some experimenting on how it plays

[cosmic pilot]

As I've been saying, half-track needs to be it's own mechanized squad where it has 20 seconds of spawn time for a single squad.

[iron patrol]

they need to make middle have 2 or 3 objectives close to each other, so unless you dominate centre of map you shall not advance. it will allow people to use center digits of map more because there will be both static and dynamic frontlines.

[cosmic pilot]

And make it like, 50 fuel

[iron patrol]

But again i remember good old days of Rising Storm 2 and Red Orchestra 2. They were the epitome of tactical shooters imo.

[novel geyser]

yeah big issue I have with warfare is how spread out everything is, a game which wants to encourage teamwork but on any pub half the team is running solo and the game hardly punishes them for it

I think I will continue

[finite berry]

Still some of the most cringe stickers I've ever seen

[iron patrol]

Here we have a "stalingrad" map consisting 1093248328432 buildings with zero roof and walls. RO2 had amazing maps and all of them were from different parts of Stalingrad. miss the time when we had devs in industry who knew how to make maps

[novel geyser]

its a harsh truth my friend but HLL is pretty terribly designed how it is
say whats your thoughts on the original arty loop, or the nodes system

[cosmic pilot]

Ask him what he thinks about red garrisons

[novel geyser]

bro I've been in the server longer than you and probably have more hours

[iron patrol]

there isn't even unstuck vehicle mechanic....

[novel geyser]

how many you got

its weewee measuring time

alright alright thats fair I got 912

[worthy charm]

Sam got the biggest wiener then

[novel geyser]

infact thats a lot of hours

kinda.. not an accomplishment

[nova pivot]

The game will be dead in 2 months

These Devs are laughing at us

[novel geyser]

🤢

[nova pivot]

How big is yours?

[novel geyser]

opugh comp ough
yeah makes sense why you dont want anything changed

[nova pivot]

Send a picture with a ruler next to it please

[cosmic pilot]

To scale the ruler

[iron patrol]

Comp players have a different mindset than casuals. Of course what we want will be different from what you want.

[finite berry]

I have the highest amount of hours, undoubtedly

[nova pivot]

Yes

[novel geyser]

I actually have a bajillion hours

[nova pivot]

At s44

[iron patrol]

I only have 119 hours so you all can mog me

[novel geyser]

and a very large donger

[cosmic pilot]

What you want is disordered

[nova pivot]

It's okay 🫂

[finite berry]

Well on my way to 2.1k hours, so no

[nova pivot]

We all been there

[obtuse dragon]

I hope one day, the soviet victory song gets changed

[iron patrol]

Yeah because currently HLL is the most orderly tactical shooter in the market. got it

[nova pivot]

Why

[worthy charm]

That will be the day pavlovs house returns

[nova pivot]

Noob number

[novel geyser]

you break my heart

[nova pivot]

Get gud

[iron patrol]

what kind of balance? I didn't see your suggestions (earlier parts of discussion)

[obtuse dragon]

If tomorrow brings war, the guard song and the march of the defenders of Moscow Is way better than the one in game

[finite berry]

I have 0, so don't feel bad 🫂

[cosmic pilot]

That's my job

[iron patrol]

I don't feel sad. I started HLL few months ago. I used to play RO2, RS2 and Squad

[nova pivot]

Subjective

The argument is not valid

[obtuse dragon]

Actually, I have seen 0 games with the march of the defenders of Moscow

[finite berry]

Actually based

[obtuse dragon]

go listen them

[iron patrol]

I agree. Tho in every match i still build a full set of nodes to help the team. Least I can do

[nova pivot]

My decision would still be subjective

[worthy charm]

Call me Heartbreaker Willes 😎

[obtuse dragon]

And in the historically accurate side, the post war "if tomorrow brings war" would also fit more

[iron patrol]

I'm just saying that games like Squad and HLL suffer from having gigantic maps where most of the map is literally not touched by players during match because of the layers.

[nova pivot]

Who says that

[obtuse dragon]

Or better yet, the march of the defenders of Moscow

[nova pivot]

I want proofs

[obtuse dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/pussy-cat-cute-kitty-kitten-cat-gif-16800925

[drowsy plover]

New map and update worth coming back?

[past vortex]

i didnt know we needed fake lachse but here we are
isnt it amazing @worthy charm

[nova pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/brad-pitt-fury-movie-shoot-that-guy-gif-8829002926137263043

[nova pivot]

No

Game is broken

[drowsy plover]

Bf6 it is then

[nova pivot]

Come back in a couple of weeks then it might be playable

[jaunty mauve]

Oh my god they fixed the stupid WiFi symbol 🥹

[past vortex]

huh, runs as bad as before for me

[obtuse dragon]

The game uses the 1922-1990 socialist song

[cosmic pilot]

There's a reason no one plays skirmish mode

[nova pivot]

And the trophies 😀

[jaunty mauve]

If the game doesn’t disconnect anymore for me I’m actually finna cry happy tears bro 😭✌️

[novel geyser]

that I can agree with nodes are bad

[jaunty mauve]

LETSFUCKING GOOOO

[iron patrol]

Don't know if im wrong but nowadays tactical shooter devs are obsessed with large maps. Making maps a little smaller but more compact would fix many issues.

We can't even jump from some walls... because of an invisible wall above them...

[cosmic pilot]

Hll needs bigger map

[novel geyser]

but warfare is not that good as a casual mode and I don't think Hell Let Loose should ever cater fully to comp

[cosmic pilot]

More width

[iron patrol]

No

[jaunty mauve]

Did they fix recons getting stuck in trenches

[earnest stirrup]

new dream: tree climbing mechanics

[obtuse dragon]

Meanwhile, it would be More accurate (and better) to use a war song like the mentioned march of the defenders of Moscow from 1941 or if tomorrow brings war (any version would work)

[nova pivot]

The game is not suitable for comp, we have asymmetrical maps and factions

[jaunty mauve]

My dream has been glocks w switches for the Soviet team

[iron patrol]

bazooka update made asymmetricality a bit different...

[nova pivot]

They are casualizing the game

[novel geyser]

I think map verticality should be specifically a part of the maps design and not through exploits

maps do need verticality, but make the vertical vantage points intentional and not require boosts and prone jumping

[obtuse dragon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1428135049739370499/1443723332443967488/1673965395_ive_had_it_with_you.gif

[iron patrol]

best they can do is adding more buildings with blocked staircases

[nova pivot]

Nah, if you really want to know which team is better you need to give them the same tools

[iron patrol]

I'm going to say it again: Devs need to study Red Orchestra 2 and Rising Storm 2. Those games were made with Unreal Engine 3 and had much more features and QOL

[nova pivot]

I saw it

[iron patrol]

For example you could rest your gun to stabilize it on any surface... game would show an icon if your rifle barrel was blocked by an object so you knew it

[novel geyser]

RS2 despite some of its flaws is peak asymmetry

[nova pivot]

And because I saw it I know that my take wasn't horrible as you say

[obtuse dragon]

RO2 was lowkey the best ww2 game ever, including darkest hour

[cyan saddle]

Based off of this comment alone I would have guessed that you are a RS2 fan

[novel geyser]

but of course

[iron patrol]

RS2 is peak asymmetry, most maps are good, campaign mode fun, guns are great, commander abilites and squad leading are all fun. You could be an SL with any kit. literally. you just received Pickaxe and smokes (vietnam) or "spawn on SL" and smokes (USA/South Vietnam/Australia)

Gunplay was amazing. No render issues. Bullet drop. Selective fire modes. You could change iron sights 100 m to 500m or even more. We used to compete with our friends about who would get longest kill

[snow pond]

Who else has had games with idiots locking the two arty squads so they are unplayable and they also just happen to be unkickable... ? Just me?

[novel geyser]

attack/Defend style modes are just better for casual matches since each team has their role of attacking or defending, the more open ended modes like warfare always go terribly in casual

[iron patrol]

Exactly. One of the greatest aspect of RO2 was map design and how certain objectives had different outcomes. Like grainelevator where if attackers captured a certain objective (literally floors of a building) and defenders would lose tickets. Sometimes sappers had to place satchels to blow doors or bunkers in order to capture the objective etc.

[novel geyser]

tbf rarely gets used outside of a few weapons or snipers

but its a cool detail none the less

sight changing would fit better in HLL due to the engagement ranges being longer

[iron patrol]

That is because HLL has very bad rendering issue, favors big screens, and literally has bad gunplay. In a game with much smaller maps you actually had to adjust iron sights to hit targets beyond 300m and you could see them, hit them, and receive feedback. In unreal engine 3 game. Yes.

[novel geyser]

if a game has actual gunplay unlike HLL just learning bullet drop isnt always enough

[iron patrol]

My man, or you just adjust iron sights like every single game 10 years ago had. Not having a simple feature is literally bad.

You could hold down R to check how much ammo left in your mag in RO2 and RS2 as well.

[novel geyser]

RO2 and RS2 had an actual magazine system too, instead of the magic top up HLL guns do

[iron patrol]

Yeah true lol. Half mags went back in ammo pouches.

[novel geyser]

the extra keybind is scrolling up or down lol

[iron patrol]

Extra keybinding = Pressing one key and moving mouse wheel up or down. Literally this simple. Every single shooter has it.

[novel geyser]

it can also just make the shot clearer, so you dont have the entire gun blocking what you're shooting at

[iron patrol]

Oh yeah, or just moving scroll up and down during ADS.

"Just learn this mate don't touch game mate" this is a problematic approach imo. QOL is not something playerbase should be divided about.

[iron patrol]

Imagine making a game in UE4/5 and it is inferior to UE3 counterparts...

In RS2 (Don't remember RO2), you could call Anti Air to deny enemy commander's air ability if you timed it right

[novel geyser]

probably not lol

I doesnt take a long time to adjust

one thing it would actually be very useful for is the rocket launchers

[iron patrol]

Imagine having "aa" denial where commander must spend resources, select a square on map, and it is active for 1 minute and has X amount of cooldown. Yeah, we called it 5D chess back then.

Of course. However imagine Windmills in soviet maps where you can get on a windmill window and engage targets beyond 300 meters. It would be nice. It is always a situational thing

[iron patrol]

Piat for example already has range on the sights, but you just can't adjust...

What is wrong with my comment?

[novel geyser]

you can do it but it would be much easier shooting people at such a distance with adjustable sights

its more of a QOL option, you dont need it but it can help especially in extreme cases

and again changing the sight would just be scrolling up or down while aiming

you're not pressing 50 keybinds

[iron patrol]

I would like to adjust my sights and engage better. It is a QOL feature (quality of life), it is not mandatory.

[iron patrol]

I think problem is older players who experienced peak tactical shooters have different expectations from HLL

I mean us, want QOL features we used to have in games 10 years ago

If some comments I read are true, they added some SPA that was not SPA irl as well... didn't fact check

I mean, they could add real SPA's. But yes, SPA was uncalled for

I understand they wanted to remove "recon camp artillery" to make artillery more useful with artillery squad. But didn't like the implementation honestly

I was playing artillery because I could calculate and fire fast. Now I can't even deploy artillery if i create the squad.

[sturdy bridge]

Just hopped in the game for the first time in forever and im absolutely baffled at how dumb the arty changes are. Not sure what T17 is thinking, but im shocked any of you are employed.

[neat crown]

Is anyone else experiencing blurry gameplay after the latest update? I'm on PS5.

[novel geyser]

I dont think you can blame too many of the changes on casual players

aint no one happy with anything T17 does

[muted lance]

I'm sorry but what was the point of changing the armor values for tanks in U18 just to give AT 3 rockets in U19

[neat crown]

Someone?

[lone barn]

So what is self propelled artillery vehicle

[fervent meadow]

I’m thankful for them helping me break my crippling 3000hr addiction to this game.

They have really helped a brother out

[novel geyser]

in reality its basically just a vehicle with an artillery gun on it from what I know
in game its tanks that the devs decided to make SPAs fsr

[timid rampart]

network error

[wanton oak]

For me on PC today it just crashes with an UE4 prompt every launch when trying to load into the main menu or says there's a network error on loop. Can't even get to the server browser or join a match to see what the update or new map is like.

[whole geode]

Hello. Please bring Turkish language support. You have a lot of Turkish players.🇹🇷

[fervent dagger]

Tank with howitzer gun, can indirect fire or direct fire. Shells go big boom

[lone barn]

thanks a lot!

[slate canopy]

Put in #1098158460463480842

[nova pivot]

Christmas polarbear 😀 🥳 🤩

Have they given an approximate date for fixing the console visual bug?

[novel geyser]

10 year

[echo karma]

3 weeks

[slate canopy]

Maxim did it last year, I remembered to put in on lol

[lofty anvil]

What bug? Haven't played yet cos they can't seem to update without breaking something

[nova pivot]

It's beautiful It makes me think you're a normal human being with sense of humor.🥹 🥹

[nova pivot]

The game looks like a PS3 game

[slate canopy]

I see you typing maxim 👀

[visual niche]

I made Greg one, he didn't put it on :(

[cosmic pilot]

who?

[nova pivot]

🫂

[lofty anvil]

Oh yay, vietnam gonna be sooo fun when they cant even add a map properly

[nova pivot]

Nah, Vietnam has a different dev team

[lofty anvil]

Not really the point, it's killing any excitement i had for it

[elder hull]

Is anyone else screen slightly blurry on PlayStation??

[shy relic]

Yep it’s awful

It makes it look like a ps2 game

[slate canopy]

I know my buddies and I will change our name to be holiday theme.. but since I don't have nitro I cannot change it here 🙁

[nova pivot]

🫂

[shy relic]

Does anyone know if PlayStation will get a hotfix for this blurry issue?

Apparently Xbox doesn’t have the same issue

[shy relic]

Yep

[shy relic]

I think the idea is that the tank has more time to respond to the at player

[candid zephyr]

Ridiculously bad update.

Artillery was self-balanced. Didn’t need to change it. Certainly didn’t need SPAs.

[gentle lintel]

Who’s that guy?

[slate canopy]

Apparently a mod or something? 🤷

[timid rampart]

wheres the setting to turn off the KILLED IN ACTION screen

[slate canopy]

I mean you will get a KIA screen but should be in the settings to turn off the info. Options -> gameplay

[timid rampart]

oh

why didnt they just add a setting to use the old death screen

[novel geyser]

funny
artillery was a terrible mechanic and was long overdue a rework, SPAs are unfortunately not the rework they needed

[lofty anvil]

Has hq arty been removed?

[candid zephyr]

Explain why it was terrible

[lofty anvil]

Recons

[novel geyser]

the artillery gameplay consists of sitting at spawn and spamming artillery all game
only counter is for someone to go to the HQ and spawn camp

[timid rampart]

*not even speaking on offensive gamemode

[novel geyser]

its a poorly implimented mechanic with a terrible gameplay loop
no game should ever encourage spawn camping

and yeah offensive arty can just sit there and spam uninterupted

the best solution is removing player manned arty and giving it to commander as an ability (we got that although probably not the best implimentation) and add mortar squads that have less range than arty but can be picked up and moved around, now the Recon vs Arty loop is an actual game of cat and mouse and not spawn killing

[candid zephyr]

I’ve over 2700 hours in this game and I’m currently in a comp team where I’m one of the main artillery people. I reckon it was fine how it was. No one was forced to do anything.

Don’t wanna sit on artillery for 90 minutes? Then don’t.
Don’t wanna get camped by recons? Go and kill them and bugger off to the frontline for 10 minutes. You’ll probably be of a greater use to the team anyway…
Don’t wanna kill artillery as a recon? Then don’t.

[novel geyser]

anything is fine if your outlook on it is that

its bad design to the core and just needed to go

[candid zephyr]

Cool, we aren’t going to agree

[timid rampart]

could you address offensive mode?

[novel geyser]

I doubt comp players touch offensive much

[west holly]

I got banned permanently and I have no clue why who should I talk to?

[slate canopy]

If you got banned from a server, you need to contact them through their discord.

[candid zephyr]

So, offensive mode in itself is a tricky one. It’s nonexistent in competitions that I’m aware of due to severe imbalances.
Personally, I reckon offensive mode can be great fun in public matches. Some of my greatest memories have come from Offensive games.

The artillery’s role is much the same though. You won’t be getting many kills if any during the first cap, second cap might be alright, then by the third cap you’re fair game and can be killed.

IMO that’s fine.

It motivates the attacking team to get creative with how they push. You need tanks with infy support, you need to stop the ant trails and spread out the attack and so on

[cosmic pilot]

severe imbalances?

[novel geyser]

offensive is too decent for comp

[cosmic pilot]

you mean, worse than warfare's imbalances lmao

[candid zephyr]

Yup, so generally speaking, the defensive side is always going to have the advantage. And with the skill level and coordination of comp teams, it would be near impossible to have the attacking team come out on top, unless the clans involved were of different tiers, if that makes sense

[cosmic pilot]

i doubt this

attacker has the advantage in offensive

[timid rampart]

strongly strongly strongly disagree, as next to nothing said just now

[cosmic pilot]

attacker also has the advantage in warfare

[novel geyser]

Eh I would say with a well organised team you can really lock down a point
Offensive I think is the better of the two modes in terms of casual play but it has issues

[cosmic pilot]

by attacker, i mean the team that holds mid

[novel geyser]

Warfare is just bad tbh id think especially for comp due to how shallow the objective meta must be

[cosmic pilot]

regardless of actual ability, the position of holding the center gives you the advantage to be the attacker

[novel geyser]

Warfare is just "hold mid and win"

[candid zephyr]

Comps are alive and healthy for the most part…. Have been for nearly 4 years now. Only warfare.

[cosmic pilot]

because comp has no interest in doing anything interesting

[novel geyser]

Comp love sticking to meta and having no fun so it doesn't surprise me why they only play warfare

[candid zephyr]

Yeah, so there’s the disconnect between the “community” and the people in comp who play the game more than anyone else.

[novel geyser]

But back on track mortars would just be objectively better especially for comp since there is some actual depth and strategy

[cosmic pilot]

they're so damn obsessed with exlpoiting the game that the weaknesses in the formula of warfare have them hopelessly addicted

[finite heath]

Your right not much rules change in comp but it is a big part of the console player base and is big in keeping the game alive on console

[cosmic pilot]

sure

[timid rampart]

i think with both sides being competent its an even fight, in theory
in reality though (for example) Utah Beach's US side has no supply depots, and no artillery, while the Germans have arty, supplies, dont have to run up a beach, etc.

[novel geyser]

And just because comp no life the game doesn't mean the devs need to focus entirely on comp

[marble anvil]

update is buns ngl

[cosmic pilot]

it's an even fight, but given enough time in offesnive, the attacker wins

[novel geyser]

Until the game is truly dead in think casual players will still be the majority

[cosmic pilot]

which is a truism now that i think about it

[slate canopy]

Oh no, casuals liking a game?! 🙀

[timid rampart]

yeah, the chokepoint for the attackers should be 4th point after lots of time spent defending 1-3

[candid zephyr]

Anyway, if you’ve never played a competitive match, you’ll never really understand just how incredible can be. Totally different game.

You actually have to think about the 49 (or 48 in our case) other people on your team.

[cosmic pilot]

i have played comp scrimages and it's just pub match but people shoot gud

the only thing it is, is high level pub

[finite heath]

This is not accurate

[candid zephyr]

That’s absolutely braindead

I’m sorry for being rude

[timid rampart]

im confused on what relevancy this has

(i dont mean to be a ####, im genuinely wondering)

[candid zephyr]

@timid rampart

[timid rampart]

ok

[novel geyser]

I've played pub matches with amazing teams on both sides that play together very well and I bet would be 10x more fun than any comp match
I think the issue is the game does not encourage or force teamplay enough
The game itself is stale thats why pubs are often not that fun, the communication makes it fun, but thats not exclusive to HLL

HLL needs mechanics that force that teamplay because right now it doesnt do it enough

[cosmic pilot]

isn't it?
the only strategy used in comp is push from center and flank, applied to every single damn strongpoint

same thing you do in pubs

[novel geyser]

HLL should not be about flick shotting or knowing all the boost spots to get an advantage through exploits like so many comp players I see seemingly treat it

[candid zephyr]

Like, you’ve legitimately no idea what competitive play looks and feels like. To be apart of a well-thought strategy that you’ve spent hours working on with your various division leads and having briefings and training matches to prepare for it…

[finite heath]

That is a very overall view you can say that about offensive as well

[cosmic pilot]

offensive is fundamentally about encirclement

warfare is more manuever based

[candid zephyr]

It’s unique and can’t be replicated by a pub match, I’m sorry, but that’s the facts. You can’t argue that.

[cosmic pilot]

i won't

[finite heath]

They are different modes for a reason

[cosmic pilot]

offensive is the better mode though

[novel geyser]

bruh now thats just taking the game too seriously 😪

[timid rampart]

🤓 erm actualy in rare cases you can replicate it (im joking idgaf)

[candid zephyr]

Oh good lord

[novel geyser]

briefings and training lmao

[cosmic pilot]

i do know what it looks like

[finite heath]

For people who want more basic run at the point game I agree but for more control a map I would say warfare is better it all depends on what you find enjoyable

[candid zephyr]

Again, that disconnect is so very apparent when these conversations come up

[cosmic pilot]

warfare's flaw is that 1 team must simultaneously attack and defend, while not having enough manpower to do both.

which is interesting

but people don't treat it like a flaw with the mode

[broken shoal]

3 rockets per antitank is fkin nuts. Too much. Got ganked by 3 ntitanks in a tiger wasnt even near the site, drivinh from hq

[cosmic pilot]

there's also nothing in the UX that clearly explains to the player which task they should be doing when

which is again, interesting

but flawed

[novel geyser]

I'd say both modes are about map control, warfare is more being capable of splitting the team between attacking and defending
More dimensions than Offensive so I get why its the comp favourite
But as a person who prefers casual pubs offensive is just far more approachable in a casual setting where you cant grantee full communication
since warfares issue in casual is theres always a team that only ever attacks and dont know how to defend

[finite heath]

Yeah that is where strategy comes into play having people defend and having certain squads go for different areas.

This is why a debate over what’s better is pointless they are completely different in their own ways offensive you have to be in the strong point to capture, where as warfare the capture is 4 grid squares and is a much larger battle

[cosmic pilot]

it's not stategy

[novel geyser]

But then I'd say in terms of the objectives themselves offensive is better designed, its the simple attack defend format, one team has to capture all points the other has to defend.
warfare is glorified king of the hill with an instant win if you take all points but both teams share the same timer.
The whole round can feel like filler if you dont manage to take the HQ

[cosmic pilot]

or what you guys do isn't strategy

[timid rampart]

agree 100% on filler

[finite heath]

Depends on how people play I personally do strategy

[candid zephyr]

Btw I’m not saying that us comp/clan people are better than anyone else, I’m just saying that we really are playing a different game, experiencing different situations and scenarios, feeling different emotions and forming different connections with the game and the people who play it alongside us.

Sorry for being rude to anyone here fellas, I’ve had my little whinge and I’ll take off 😂 have a good one 👍

[novel geyser]

anyways this debate started as the arty debate
arty bad
mortars good

[cosmic pilot]

strategy is a coherent plan to dismantle the enemy's ability/will to fight, while preserving your own forces.
"we're gonna keep two squads back on defence" is not strategy, it's a tactical decision

[candid zephyr]

Oh, and @finite heath you’re with the 6th aren’t you?

[finite heath]

Like I said all depends on how the team is playing and why the modes are completely different, I personally have enjoyed both offensive feel like a constant wave fight which is fun but warfare feel more like a battle thought out a whole map

[timid rampart]

honestly would be really cool, i think there should be a debuff to mortars, to prevent setting up, shooting, moving to new position, repeat
maybe multiman crews, possible jams/failures(?)

[finite heath]

Not quite Australian times is bit out of my reach😅

[novel geyser]

jams nononono

a downside to constantly packing up and moving is you dont get as much fire down

[timid rampart]

fair

[candid zephyr]

Ah! Apologies. Must be mistaken. Either way, listen to this bloke ^ he knows what’s up.

[novel geyser]

mortars would set up taking a few seconds, maybe need to place an ammo box too and then fire, when they decide to move it takes a few seconds to pack it all back up

[cosmic pilot]

how tf do you jam a mortar without dying

[finite heath]

Everyone has opinions on the game personally just want the bugs to be fixed

[novel geyser]

mortars in game should probably have a max range of like 200m at minimum I'd say so close enough you can hunt them down ideally

[cosmic pilot]

it would be accurate for 50mm mortars

but

if you have 80mm mortars it's better to have more capability even if the range is unrealistically short

[normal rose]

Make a line across the map, beat the other team back, thats the name of the game

[novel geyser]

yeah hard to get distances right when the maps are surprisingly small for how big they are lol

[cosmic pilot]

600m is about as sweetspot as you can ask for

if you want to attack a strongpoint you're only 3 gridsquares back

[timid rampart]

id argue for light mortar and heavy mortars

but thats having it my way, your way is a really good idea

[cosmic pilot]

personally, if we only got one i'd prefer non portable with larger caliber

[novel geyser]

600m is like more than half the length of the map isnt it lol

[cosmic pilot]

no?

[timid rampart]

\ |

[novel geyser]

oh wait yeah im stupid

wait... am I or is maps let loose lying to me

is one grid square 100m or 200m

its 200 okay yeah im dumb

maybe like between 400m or 600m then I got the numbers mixed up

[fervent dagger]

Grid scale changes in skirmish but that's the only one I think.

[novel geyser]

yeah I couldnt find the actual measuring ruler on the website so I was using the garrison radius which uuuh wasnt the proper way of doing it lol

[earnest stirrup]

nodes: get rid of the team limit, then make their production rate proportional from their distance to the mid line

node in the other teams half negates enemy production or something

[timid rampart]

but why? assuming every single person puts nodes down in groups of 3, there would be 150 or so nodes, meaning something like +10(distance prop.)(node count)
and negation is the job of recon

[novel geyser]

nodes are a hard thing to fix

[earnest stirrup]

very funny rush to maximalism thinking 150 nodes will be put up, not like everyone is going to rotate off the front line to sortie with a support guy but give it the right strategic balance and you have to consider frontline vs sortie

[timid rampart]

if i didnt clarify i meant in theory

[timid rampart]

what do you thinks wrong with them

[novel geyser]

they're just boring not really well implimented

they used to have a bit more too them, you'd get more resources depending on what sector they were built on but that was removed ages ago

the entire node building loop is take supply truck to the corner of a map and build three nodes and then play the game

has very little engagement with the game at large

logistics need a rework, something that is engaging to actually do and can fit in the games map size

[faint portal]

Most important thing in games is make more engaging mechanics rather than chores imo

Nodes are a chore

[timid rampart]

ohhhhhhhh yeah that makes more sense

[novel geyser]

this
I'd even go as far as to say garrisons can be a huge chore

particularly defensive and backup garrisons, needing to build them and then possibly rebuild them when one random guy goes running through the back lines destroying them

garrison loops isnt that fun and node loop is not engaging

[faint portal]

Tethering nodes to garrisons, or rather implementing cross class/cross squad /cross squad type mechanics would be huge in HLL. I feel recently we've gone more into the everyone just do your own thing route

[faint portal]

I would agree, this is why I would want halftracks to be more viable
Why not half track & sup truck auto spawn

[novel geyser]

huge agree the game wants to encourage and insentivise team play but most things are usually just solo'd

[faint portal]

Making bazookas stronger and leaning into one AT player can kill a tank is the wrong play imo. I don't want to feel like a hero/feel like a movie.
I want to feel like one cog in a machine that works together

If I wanted to feel like a hero I'd just play battlefield and have battlefield moments

[novel geyser]

I'd be for that
one thing I would like is for OPs and Garrisons to be a bit more free in where they can places, so you can place OPs inside buildings for example (would have to probably remove collision on the OP) And to a similar extend with garrisons, garrisons could maybe require being built by members of the squad who have hammers and the SL just places the blueprint, maybe garrisons can be upgraded with extra supplies to have some shelter over it
but for offense transport trucks and half tracks are your primary way of spawning

transport trucks being cheaper but less protected while half tracks have armour and the gun but cost a bit more to spawn or something

[faint portal]

HUGE agree, however I think this does need to be balanced somewhat
Bombing runs should still be able to take things out within buildings otherwise you would never have teams able to do anything with certain garries

[novel geyser]

Yep yep yep
big thing I want is AT to be split into its own squad, so AT squads can actually focus tank hunting as a squad, not just a squad with an AT to deal with tanks

[faint portal]

Hear me out... Half the build cost of EVERYTHING in warfare...
No one builds anything

[novel geyser]

yea, Garrisons would be a bit more restrictive since they still need room and theres not too many open buildings, out posts I think would be nice to be able to be placed in houses, sort of hide your clown closeting but if someone gets into the house it still gets auto destroyed pretty much

[faint portal]

Totally fine with that. There's already SO much AT atm... I just want it to not take one guy to kill me... And make medium tanks not viable... Which they now made every medium tank not viable 🙃

[faint portal]

I like ur brain

[novel geyser]

yeah 100%
too much AT spam was already a problem, buffing AT has just made it worse
Splitting them into squads also allows for finer balancing with AT units

I'd even go as far as to give Engineers their own squads so they can focus defenses and logistics and leave the infantry role with the classes that do the heavy lifting in infantry combat

rifleman might actually get some use then aswell

smallish change that potentially could be a huge difference to weather or not a team actually works together

[faint portal]

I think just do what squad does?
Make it so you can pick classes only after a certain amount of people are in that squad?

[timid rampart]

whitelist squad roles to useful stuff

[novel geyser]

maybe
I think with HLL's squads set up tho just having them split would be best

AT squads would then be a bit more limited in how many exist and how many people can be in it

[timid rampart]

if ur logistics no mg for you

[faint portal]

I just want squads to have more cross functional work

Like having a three man static arty crew is kinda weird

[novel geyser]

infantry squad would be the largest in terms of players in a squad, but their entire specialist roles will revolve around combat

yeah the arty squads are weird, should've been mortar crew but T17 are just full of strange ideas

tank crew would remain as they are same with recon, all thats needed I think is splitting AT and engineers into their own squads and replace the arty squad with a mortar team

[echo karma]

@swift nacelle great video bro

[past vortex]

when medic squad

[livid saffron]

So if you have a medic squad how will they be able to support all the stretched out squads

i think its good the way it is.

[livid saffron]

What you think about an engineer squad

[livid saffron]

I total agree.

[novel geyser]

Medic is just
Yknow
He exists

[past vortex]

naw, we NEED medic squads

[novel geyser]

Medic squads and body dragging and the game is saved

[past vortex]

horse mounted ofc

[novel geyser]

Also horses

Yeeeah you know it

[faint portal]

I think buildables should be half cost in warfare to promote more things being built for how quick warfare plays
Nodes should be tethered to garrisons (make spawns faster? More ammo when spawned at that Gary? Etc) lean more into having a logistic pro con aspect to them
Outside of that I think they are fine. They have good defense and offense capabilities

[livid saffron]

So will they just spawn in Ops or garrisons. How are they going to reach every squad.

It makes sesnse for each squad to have their own for help when down.

I can see a squad of medics spamming smokes

[novel geyser]

Satchels also need nerfing i think shouldn't one shot anything heavier than a light tank but can damage and disable them instead
If I were to be extra mean id remove the satchel loadouts from assault and at making them engineer exclusive and their primary role being to clear built structures

[past vortex]

with the horses ofc

[timid rampart]

vehicle and standard satchels, like CoH2 penal battalion & anti tank penal battalion

[cosmic pilot]

Think about what you're trading off by having more generalized squads.
The game has probably needed more specialized squads for awhile.

[livid saffron]

I agree

[faint portal]

Im fine with whatever to be frank. I just don't want a bunch of ppl effing off in corners of the map. Think about how many times you've had your two recon squads doing nothing fighting on the frontline.

Now imagine that with every specialized squad... Lol

I just think more cross functional aspects to the roles is needed

[livid saffron]

havine engineer squad makes sense for offensive/defensive modes but for warfare mode ive seen people rarely build

[faint portal]

Easily calling for supplies across squads
Easily having your engines fortify a single objective
Easily having your logi trucks all focus supplies in a single area
Easily helping all at see a tank top coordinate an ambush
So on so forth

[faint portal]

never build

[cobalt aurora]

anyone else not having europe official servers come up?

[livid saffron]

I havent seen them since the weekend

last time i was on them there was griefers and people team killing randomly

[echo karma]

Would be cool if server owners had more control over the server

[cobalt aurora]

Game is weirdly different

[clear crystal]

Updates on blurry ps5 graphics?

[echo karma]

3 weeks

[cobalt aurora]

Im not seeing any official european servers are people just not playing the game?

[livid saffron]

Official severs are unmoderated

[clear crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-walter-white-gif-8086630669522815021

[echo karma]

Did you read?

[swift nacelle]

I appreciate that! Thanks for watching it.

[echo karma]

Yeah I was loving the attention to detail on sound design. I believe they nailed that map but other things idk

[livid saffron]

So you dont have to have arty on mid hq anymore you can move it anywhere on the map?

[echo karma]

Idek. Xbox graphics look like ps1 doom

Not to mention our 10k other issues

[honest geyser]

Heya imma buy the game rn was waiting til update 19 to buy the game

[slate canopy]

Welcome in

[echo karma]

May you find fun. New map is great

[honest geyser]

did the updaye introduce a laundry list of bugs again?

[devout isle]

hell let loose

[pale vapor]

do people even play skirmish mode lmao

[echo karma]

No

[pale vapor]

people obviously dont play the game for small arcadey type gameplay nor would it bring in those types of people cause HLL base game is slow

they should be going in the oppisite direction

[worthy charm]

Not on PC

Played 2 matches today and neither myself or my fellow SPA enjoyer come across any issues.

-# Apart from terrible Gameplay on my part...

[slate canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-hank-hill-peggy-hill-loser-gif-459816546715877528

[fringe hollow]

Only two SPA enjoyers

[worthy charm]

They are terrible

And im terrible with them

Its the best if both worlds i guess

[fringe hollow]

I mean they are new. Maybe we just need a bored comp team to study and strategize with them

surely nothing new and exciting will come out to focus on instead

[worthy charm]

In a organized match they will be amazing, but not in Pubs.

Recon and lights kill them easily

[fringe hollow]

I want the teamwork of comp with the casual atmosphere of pubs

Like just everyone focused on the game and working together to play it

[worthy charm]

Organized matches it is

[fringe hollow]

yippee

like nothing on the line, just for shiz and giggles and the love of the game

[worthy charm]

Im to Bad for comp, but having a match with good people and a plan from the start is amazing

[rancid zealot]

did they fix the "lost connection to host"? no? okay lmaoooo L update

[past vortex]

smolensk is garbage

runs so bad at night

[slate canopy]

Clear your steam cache.

[shut steeple]

Saw the game was 75 % off on steam. installing it right now.

Anyone wanna play with a beginner lol?

[slate canopy]

Welcome in! You may have better luck in #pc-looking-for-unit

[shut steeple]

ty

[rancid zealot]

lmao, cause that was the issue....

[slate canopy]

It can cause issues.

[slate canopy]

These are the usual fixes: https://discord.com/channels/316459644476456962/1300297593032671292

[azure ridge]

Where console hotfix

[winged trout]

Im getting tired of this, my ping has doubled since u19 on my fav server, and its making the game frustrating to play

[gentle vector]

hotfix getting cold

[zinc berry]

Soon as I saw the amount of assets in Smolensk I knew I was going to get disconnected. Bang, only took 5 min and I was booted. Fantastic map. Can't wait for more.

[devout pulsar]

is the new SPAs all being called an OQF 57mm except for the KV-2 and the fact that if you shoot something less than 50 meters away the shell just drops to the ground right in front of the tank just me or is this another untested patch

[static granite]

This game is unplayable with this update

[devout pulsar]

even a basic QA pass wasn't done, German Engineer loadout is Pionier, German Artillery Engineer is Pioneer, i don't understand how the devs can be this bad at their jobs

[leaden fiber]

sounds like you are using the spa wrong?

like why are you using it like a tank

[leaden fiber]

is xbox messed up like ps5?

i thought that was limited to ps5

[devout pulsar]

i went to the training ground to play with it and the first thing i tried to do was shoot from where i was sitting, aimed directly at a tank 50m away and missed low, it's like the shells travel for a short period of time and then just drop straight out of the air, you can really notice it when watching the tracer while using it properly

[next narwhal]

Xbox doesn’t have the graphics problem.

New map crashes tho

Ant thats the tip of the iceberg

[leaden fiber]

i think they were borked on the training ground on the PTE too

should be fine in game though

I THINK

[devout pulsar]

i don't really feel like getting 2 friends, getting command to give me one, driving 10 minutes to the front for it just to be another untested useless mess

[tacit pumice]

This game is cooked

[obtuse dragon]

dude they messed up alfred so much 😭

[wheat lichen]

Yall, PS5 is unplayable. This is one of the silliest things I’ve ever seen from a modern developer. I love this game. What in the hell are you doing?

Is this a joke?

[finite berry]

Why would he joke lol

Not arguing against that lol

[analog apex]

https://discord.com/channels/316459644476456962/1446030764822237287
https://discord.com/channels/316459644476456962/1445811517395304479
Already 2 examples of problems that were reported some time before U19 official release, they were reported in the test branch thread. And to our big (nor rly 😄 ) surprise, both the problems got to the live client branch.

Why should we bother to play in the dev branch, waste time while switching the branches and report the most obvious issues and yet they get completely ignored obviously anyway?

[devout pulsar]

you should play the dev branch so the devs can say there is a dev branch to get people to buy the game, sadly i can't make my already negative review from the first half of this patch into a double negative

[graceful solstice]

they should disable the new death screen entirely

[analog apex]

yeah - they say they brought the possibility to turn it off, I believe @fluid pawn was mentioning in the devBranch stream that it's for people who don't want to get their immersion broken and that now with the toggle option it's fine. But him and the devs forget that the immersion was never the issue. This feature of knowing one's killer just doesn't belong to a game like HLL overall in the 1st place (apart of the admins to know it and some public c-rcon that requires some effort to check). Also, turning it off voluntarily just on one's own side means taking a disadvantage of not getting to know some knowledge.

[graceful solstice]

Exactly!

[devout pulsar]

it is kinda nice they dropped the Vietnam announcement and then the devs destroyed the next two updates so i can remember not to buy it

[sturdy quarry]

the pocket watch is still bugged...

[devout isle]

i was playing hll and i was yknow playing for a good time and i was in the deploy menu waiting to spawn and it kicked me saying something like "heartbeat ran out" what does this mean ive never seen it

i got a lot of kills too 😔

[analog apex]

here we have another reported and yet unfixed problem despite obvious and pretty important...
https://discord.com/channels/316459644476456962/1446038033940877412

I wonder how long the final list will be...

[obtuse dragon]

Heart attack

[devout isle]

i didnt know heart attacks were a thing in hll

[deft shale]

Boy all the console servers died awfully early for an update yall loved so much 😂 almost like it was just the COD bros complaining they can’t bush camp 24/7

[obtuse dragon]

ngl the new map is so bad

ever since U17 i feel like the devs stopped focusing on the performance of maps

[sturdy quarry]

im down to 44 fps when other maps 80-100

mortain 65-90

[obtuse dragon]

i get around 40-20

ever since tobruk got into the game the maps have been less and less optimized

[sturdy quarry]

eslenborn and tobruk seem ok / same as OG maps

new stalingrad, mortain and smolensk are dire

fps-wise

[obtuse dragon]

tobruk has the sandstorms that destroy your fps

stalingrad has the dark fart clouds and the insane amount of assets that also destroy your fps

smolenks has water, white random clouds and an insane amount of assets

[analog apex]

another one to the list, this one shows total lack of competence of Team17s' development once more
https://discord.com/channels/316459644476456962/1446056871369769080

they did HQ1 and HQ3 arty blueprints for Smolensk but they forgot to do it on other maps

[fervent dagger]

Didn’t they say in the experimental notes that was just an experiment for that map alone.

[obtuse dragon]

the devs stopped making playable maps and started making maps that look good on showcases

[analog apex]

rly? if that's the case, I am the bad guy 😄

gonna double check

in any case, it doesn't make sense - this is not a dev branch anymore and all the maps should have the same production setup

[fervent dagger]

I could be creating that info out of nothing but I swear I remember reading thst somewhere

[dim snow]

How they get away time after time releasing a terribly stuttering map is beyond me

[analog apex]

becasue they don't care about fixing the stutterings

they haven't for years now

[dim snow]

Need reporting to trading standards the jokers

I mean is it that hard to release new maps that run like the Normandy maps.

[obtuse dragon]

tbf

[analog apex]

for me (as well as for many others) all the maps stutter, ever since P14.3 patch

[obtuse dragon]

the normandy maps came when the devs weren't adding 8 babillion things to every map to make them look beautiful

[dim snow]

And that’s the thing, they keep adding this stupid dynamic shite to maps to a game that isn’t even fully optimised, like who’s making these decisions 😂

Great logic there mate

[devout isle]

smolensk map is aids for me

i cant see any enemies unless they're right infront of me

and i genuinely have no idea where im getting shot from

[tacit elm]

Why is spotting enemies suddenly impossible??

Is there something wrong with my graphics?

[sturdy quarry]

devs added vaseline screen medal of honour frontline dlc to PS5

[ancient harness]

Console?

[tacit elm]

No, PC

[ancient harness]

There are several bugs reported regarding low graphics on consoles, but I don't know if it also affects PC

[novel geyser]

For pc change your anti aliasing setting

For console...
Cry :(

[lofty anvil]

Anyone know if vietnam will be on gamepass?

[novel geyser]

It's still a ways off no one knows nothing

[brittle spade]

I think we know something. We know its going to be an absolute mess of a game.

[novel geyser]

[turbid plaza]

T17 needs to just throw the game in the trash at this point.

Took an awesome game and f*****g destroyed it.

[novel geyser]

eh feels the same as it always was to me tbh

[ancient harness]

That's fatalistic ngl

Everything can get better no matter how bad it is. Just look at Battlefield

[obtuse dragon]

As a battlefield hater this just proves his point 🥀

[umbral osprey]

Someone should get fired if this happens update after update

[ancient harness]

Battlefield 6 is notably, notably better than previous titles like 2042. As a Battlefield player who switched to HLL because didn't like how they did Battlefield 5

[harsh egret]

That's naiive and misplaced optimism for those of us who have been repeatedly burned for years.

Everything I have warned about with this game's terrible optimization and development logic/priorities for years have now come true. Chickens coming home to roost.

[ancient harness]

Yeah I didn't say the game is good now. But it could be saved, if they wanted to

[dim snow]

Exactly this 👏🏻

It amazes me how more people don’t complain about the terrible stuttering on these maps

Are standards really this low in this day and age

[ancient harness]

Honestly its optimization just makes me want to cry. It once crashed because an AT gun shot landed on a river. For its graphics, it runs horrible. It's not like matches are extremely large either. There's more going on in a Fortnite match. But is it really not fixable?

[inland delta]

Still some redeeming factors to this game. ofc, if not nobody would play it.

[ancient harness]

I don't think they should just throw this game in the trash. That's what I meant

[dim snow]

There main number 1 priority should be to release a massive optimisation patch for consoles. Do it team17 for the sake of the console player base.

[harsh egret]

They won't. Hope left my building long before the U18 abomination. I'm convinced the playerbase that still defends them or has faith in T17 is suffering from battered wife syndrome, or they just bought the game yesterday and are either still in their honeymoon phase or just want to justify their money spent.

[analog apex]

There main number 1 priority should be to release a massive optimisation patch for consoles.
for as long as it won't slow down the PC HLL development

we the PC HLL players were clearly, specifically and explicitly promised that much by the devs

[inland delta]

https://tenor.com/view/oliver-twist-beg-gif-10430548

[dim snow]

Can’t see why it would. I know it’s originally a PC game, but we console players surely deserve to have all maps running smoothly surely.

[worthy charm]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-omni-man-are-you-sure-are-you-sure-invincible-gif-3935116808772397515

[analog apex]

Can’t see why it would.
I can - because someone has to fix those things, and that can be only one of the HLL dev team. Somebody that could be working on the PC version problems instead.

[worthy charm]

The promises, make a list or even two for BM and T17

Maybe even 3 if you do Cover6 and Expression.

[analog apex]

Right, it has felt like they seem to be full of ........ ...you know what word is missing, right? But it's been like that almost every time they promised something.

[worthy charm]

Dont make the automod work more, he had a rough 2 days.

[analog apex]

And honestly I am tired and sick of it after the years.

But when BM said something, there was at least a chance they would deliver it in a good or tested state. When it comes to Team17, they keep showing how they don't test or even play their own product.

So many bugs & problems keep getting through the PTEs, dev branch and all despite reported by several players.

[worthy charm]

SPAs seem to be in a rather polished state... in generel the U19 was pretty good on PC, except the whole CRCON (or how its called) thing.

[patent iris]

I miss Black Matter

[analog apex]

Except the vehicles they chose are not SPAs... :/

[worthy charm]

Would BM have stayed the game would have been given up like 2 years ago.

[analog apex]

maybe it would have been for the better

[worthy charm]

They wouldnt have sold if there was any interest left from them

[worthy charm]

I mean... Halftracks and Flares are both not better in anyway.

I would even say flares are the worst...

BF5 ahhh game logic

[analog apex]

but at least halftrack is a halftrack and flare is a flare
SPAs are no SPAs in HLL

[worthy charm]

Halftracks arent also not used like halftracks irl

The reasoning for why they choose these vehicles even tho they arent correct makes sense.

[analog apex]

but the model is correct at least... when it comes to SPAs it's like you would add a Panzer III and called it a tank destroyer

or a truck and called it a tank

[worthy charm]

What doesnt make sense why they didnt just do Mortars and kept SA in the gmae

[worthy charm]

Who cares if the gameplay is still bs

at least I can see that the wrong tanks for SPAs improves them.

No one ever asked for a halftrack thats a mobile spawn ot at least I never saw the suggestion

SPAs whilst being a shitty idea were at least requested.

[analog apex]

more like expected... ever since the Hummel and Priest were first showcased

mortars were truly requested as well, and yet they didn't come

but we already discussed that

[worthy charm]

Did you really expect T17/expression to have these 6 year old models lying around?

I dont think even BM still had them pre U14

[analog apex]

I doubt they would delete them altogether

so yeah, I think they still had them somewhere

maybe burried, but were still existing

at least that's my belief

[patent iris]

Would stand to logic especially since they bought the game and everything with it

[worthy charm]

Nah

You guys have far to much faith

Im pretty sure even BM didnt had them anymore. They showed it off and then never talked about it again.

[analog apex]

"pretty sure"... did you check their computers and GIT or something? Because that's the only way you could claim that. 😏

[finite berry]

You don't necessarily buy everything with it.

[patent iris]

To an extent yes, I’m sure there’s intellectual property and what not. But something simple like an unused model or files I doubt wouldn’t have not been included

[obtuse dragon]

i ahte

hate smolensk so much, with all of my heart

[analog apex]

whatever, all we can have today are assumptions and it doesn't matter

[finite berry]

Sometimes even simpler things are not included

[obtuse dragon]

1 hour and 20 minutes spent on a match with a shtty optimized map

[novel geyser]

yknow I remember thinking that the new vehicles were gonna be tank destroyers
seemed like the most obvious thing

[analog apex]

what about the remaining 10m?

[obtuse dragon]

i decided to do the horrible decision of spawning and my game crashed

[analog apex]

right

[obtuse dragon]

and the game didn't gave me my exp because i was supposed to level up and get the FG

[analog apex]

but we can be glad the game doesn't crash, right @hazy owl? 😜

[obtuse dragon]

i hate shtlensk so much and the update came out less than a day ago

[analog apex]

I haven't rly played yet... just explored a bit and tried stuff either in EXPLORE or empty servers. That much I dislike all of this.

[obtuse dragon]

the map is poorly optimized, 9 gazillion windows and houses with literally just one entrance and all the windows closed

[obtuse dragon]

if the stalingrad rework was bad

imagine smolensk

[novel geyser]

smolensk as a map from what I've played is good
I do imagine it runs like poopoo on most peoples rigs tho

[obtuse dragon]

The devs stopped making playable and well optimized maps and they started making maps that look good on showcases but plays like sht and turns my game into a slideshow

[analog apex]

I didn't ever like Stalingrad, but I miss the original Pavlov's house. And their cheap excuse annoyed me so much (because "its model was causing performance problems")... well then, in that case you devs should have remade the model the way it wouldn't be problematic, instead of re-using another broken building asset. Not ready yet? OK, don't push the Stalingrad changes yet then and wait till it's finished & polished.

Nothing these devs do makes any sense.

[obtuse dragon]

12 fps

try aiming at someone on a window

[novel geyser]

yeah not good

[obtuse dragon]

at 12 fps

[novel geyser]

The maps were never that well optimised tbh but I can imagine smolensk is possibly worse than most

[obtuse dragon]

they were playable

[novel geyser]

yea

[obtuse dragon]

i can play almost any map in peace but as soon as i get to the reworked stalingrad or smolensk i suddenly lose the ability to play the game

The devs need to learn on how to optimize the game

[novel geyser]

funny since they removed pavlov's house because it was destroying performance

[obtuse dragon]

And now the entire Stalingrad destroys performance

[patent iris]

Stalingrad always had shite performance

[silk igloo]

maybe they dont have the resources/finances allocated to fix models on their own, instead relying on buying cheaper outsourced assets that dont always work so well with the game

or they can do so little that it's better to buy new assets than use what little you have to fix all the issues in the things that were bought

[analog apex]

right, a studio that bought HLL's IP for millions, don't have money for 6 proper SPA models

I would see it just like greed, incompetence, or stupidity

or ofc... mix of all of those

[silk igloo]

required by law to make a profit for the bosses at all costs, innit

[worthy charm]

Or they did it for the reason they said they did it

[real parrot]

Yesterday I played with the brumbar and disarmed a guy like a lego toy with it

[analog apex]

which makes no sense

[worthy charm]

It does tho

[silk igloo]

that reminds me, it takes two 152mm HE shells to destroy a Puma with turret shots. Rather silly, dont you think?

[worthy charm]

Thats the same reason I gave yall months ago

Because its obvious

[analog apex]

I guess we are not talking about the same reasons, what exactly do you mean?

[proper sandal]

I made an SPA range calculator if anyone wants to check it out!
https://spa-range-calculator.pagedrop.io

[real parrot]

I shoot at an IS 1 and it didn't immediatly exploded and became a smoking a crater so well, not quite good

[real parrot]

awesome

[analog apex]

my antivirus already warned me about suspicious activity on the site when I opened it 😏

[real parrot]

The suspicious activity must be me trying to calculate the direct fire elevation for 1400 meters

[proper sandal]

I assume the site is safe, I made it as a local HTML file and just uploaded it there so I can get feedback

[real parrot]

There is no data for the bishop british SPA?

[sick bramble]

it would be much harder for the recon to do something

[keen yoke]

I am baffled that people are saying smolensk runs poorly. I thought on the beta it ran really well.

[analog apex]

right, which is exactly what I said afterwards on top of that - if they were worried so much about the open vehicles, they shouldn't have implemented SPAs at all and they should have made the mortars instead
so... still makes no sense

[worthy charm]

Not hard but annoying, it would be a cat and mouse game + even after killing the crew its not better because then recon has to camp the damn SPA.

[umbral osprey]

Valid

[umbral osprey]

Yeah that would've been the move

[keen yoke]

What did they change to make it unplayable?

[proper sandal]

so for the direct fire table/calculations I had to do it manually, I only did increments of about 10 mil, from -89 (true min) to the specific gun's stated minimum mil

I did the testing on all but the Bishop, I couldn't do that one in Firing Range, and without a spotter its hard to see where the rounds land precisely

[worthy charm]

Now thats a question no one can answer....

[analog apex]

it already answered itself - by their actions and statements

[worthy charm]

https://tenor.com/view/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-the-rock-gif-22113367

[sick bramble]

why they didn't add option to "switch" projectile mode
direct and indirect fire, instead we got goofy ahh old system

[real parrot]

damn
Thanks anyway for the work, I'll be yelling now "Gunner, 1 o clock, 459 mil, indirect fire, 3 shoots!"

[analog apex]

ok, enough of ranting, let's play, get crash/disconnect once or twice so it can rearm us for another (justified!) ranting again 😄

[worthy charm]

Either they cant or they dont want to make mortars, but who knows why. I couldnt be bothered to speculate anymore...

[proper sandal]

Yes shadow that's the idea. I think in practice its probably better to use direct fire, since then you can shoot close & far with a smaller range of mils

If you are ranging for indirect fire you have to scale down a lot to get back to short range <200m

[sick bramble]

now its too late to make mortars

[proper sandal]

to be honest man, I made the dang calculator and even I have no f-ing clue how this new predator missile SPA system really works

[real parrot]

faster but needs to have LOS, I think that defeats the purpose. The SPA responds for the need of an indirect gun that cannot be camped so easily, so pretty much I'll be using the indirect fire to pound some garrys

[analog apex]

javelin

[worthy charm]

I dont think so, would they get rid of SA in HQ it could still be cool.

[real parrot]

The shells knows where it is because it knows where it isn't

[sick bramble]

or add option to attach arty to trucks

give them some mobility

[umbral osprey]

Maybe they think mortars would cause an artillery-recon loop that's even worse

Which I could see

[sick bramble]

idk why someone thought about "building" sa in HQ ONLY

its pain in my eyes

[analog apex]

I don't see how that would be possible - only if the mortar squads would be playing lone wolfing and be away from the rest of the team

and even if, they can spawn anywhere else after getting killed - it wouldn't be like the HQ static arty that is right at the HQ spawnpoint and on pre-determined spots/blueprints

[proper sandal]

I have had pretty good results without LOS, since the direct fire ranging I adopted just needs your immediate front to be clear of obstacles, but it still has a wicked javelin-like arc once it gets near target

[proper sandal]

More things to get stuck in trenches haha 😛

[sick bramble]

if i use ap rounds, sometimes those go in straight line (100m range) and sometimes hit ground 10 meters on front of SPA

[umbral osprey]

I think they would almost certainly play solo in practice most of the time. I agree that it would be less uninteresting for recon because the placement is dynamic

[real parrot]

I tried some shoots using 5% calculus, 5% instinct and 90% hope and the bullet landed on the head of some poor dude (it was friendly)

[proper sandal]

I really only did most of my testing with HE, but it would be interesting if there are differences in ranging for HE and AP

[sick bramble]

there are i think

on close range maybe

[real parrot]

It would be hilarous to kill a heavy tank with indirect fire AP at 600 meters

[fervent dagger]

I think that’s to do with the terrain elevation changing the value

[real parrot]

The hud tells you the terrain difference that you need to adjust tho

[sick bramble]

but, i tried without moving spa

devs told something about "skill" in aiming

its not skill, its luck and watching hll spa calculator

[proper sandal]

yesterday I killed a panther, luchs, puma with direct fire. I got an additional 2 light trucks and one more tank with indirect fire

[sick bramble]

HE? or AP

[real parrot]

More like how much fast you can calculate or how much hope you have

[proper sandal]

Yes most likely this, I didn't figure out the terrain adjustment compensation until today, but it seems to work well. The only thing that seems off is if you are elevated or your target is elevated, there is some nuance in whether to add or remove mils

[sick bramble]

excel moment

[proper sandal]

The calculator worked best not for the gunner, but for the driver to use, so he asks for compensation and punches them in and feeds firing solution (in mils) to gunner, we were able to pretty much get rounds out every 10 seconds this way

Its much more tedious for gunner to do ranging himself using calculator

[fervent dagger]

Was shooting it over and over in the practice range like a loser. The shot defo has some scatter, it’s reduced with direct fire but it’s still there slightly.

[proper sandal]

AP for all, even HE didn't kill the Puma, so I think HE rounds might not work on armor very well

[real parrot]

I'll just be roleplaying as an artillery commander like I did with the SA thx you very much

[proper sandal]

Direct fire is my preference, I haven't tested spread all that much but it mostly appears to be lateral spread

(side to side, maybe 5-15m)

My next update to the calculator is a mobile friendly version with a numpad that you punch the values in, so its faster as an option for people to use

[fervent dagger]

Did have a game where a he shell landed near our light tank didn’t even hit it, and it nuked our treads instantly lol.

[proper sandal]

Yes my HE shell hurt the recon tank's turret I think, maybe tracks too. I have a suspicion that HE does no hull damage to tanks

[sick bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-mike-ehrmantraut-mad-rage-gif-26707888

My message to devs

[analog apex]

and why the heck are the new U19 Steam achievements hidden?

I guess they forgot to set them correctly, just as the last time when we asked and Ben had to tell them

[sick bramble]

Who knows 😭

[analog apex]

https://tenor.com/view/will-smith-independence-day-gif-11216603

[mellow knoll]

They should be strictly direct fire. The tanks they chose never had indirect fire. It’s physically impossible with their designs.

[umbral osprey]

I am so curious if anyone is getting fired over this continuous mess

[sick bramble]

I know but for gameplay its other thing

One good thing about this update: bipods for bar and fg42

[mellow knoll]

I’d sure hope it’d be whoever is making these stupid calls/decisions.

[sick bramble]

And its a bit of shame

[fervent dagger]

Pretty sure some of them could. The Sherman can even if it wasn’t its main function. Not sure about the rest though.

[analog apex]

while BAR's ADS while bippoded, is offset xD - shoots more to the left instead of where the middle of the sights is

[mellow knoll]

Either way they aren’t meant to be SPAs/Artillery vehicles.

They were never used as such aside from the one proper British SPA they added.

[analog apex]

exactly.

And gameplay as an excuse? Well with this way of thinking they could make them grey boxes with barrels and the result would be the same.

[mellow knoll]

It’s a poor excuse, really is.

As I said yesterday open tops would be fine gameplay wise. If you’re constantly dying as the crew to recons or standard infantry you’d be doing something wrong, and you’d be forced to learn from your mistakes.

Mobile artillery vehicles are mobile for a reason.

[umbral osprey]

I imagine these things will barely be used a few weeks from now

[analog apex]

at least the static HQ arty requires 2 peeps to reload fast now

[turbid plaza]

T17 is just botching the historical factor to appease modern gamers with low attention spans and a need to play run and gun solo tactics instead of team based which is what HLL was suppose to be

[analog apex]

and somebody to deploy the box
... the only positive about the whole thing. But the HQ arty should be removed completely, it would be for the best.

[smoky urchin]

I'm in agreeance with you. I don't think open top is that much of a big deal, the vehicles are quite raised and the infantry are some degree protected, it was no different to using the Static arty only for a premium cost you now have bit more protection and mobility to fire from a place of your choice.

[mellow knoll]

The hardest facts I’ve heard in this chat.

[cosmic pilot]

Is it though.

[turbid plaza]

Gotta make their money somehow i guess

[mellow knoll]

It’s not. It’s a mix of both.

[smoky urchin]

Also the "SPA" are being changed, they're not staying like this, they've said this. It's unfortunate but we've got a Beta template and this is now an introduction for new players seeing this but if they do right and what we pushed to change how these vehicles operate then in the end it would be good. If only testing for this came way sooner in the develeopment cycle before it was locked in place for release.

[mellow knoll]

If they do, it’ll be forgivable as long as they don’t make such a stupid mistake twice.

They should go by their words and stick historical.

Otherwise don’t lie to your community.

They just need someone who’s actually knowledgable about the topic to keep them from making these mistakes.

[turbid plaza]

Every update brings major techinical issues to the ganes mechanics.

And all it does is hurt them because it turns away both veteran and new players and the base weakens every time.

Until T17 realizes they need to fix the damn game before the release more content nothing will change and this game will continue to have less quality players.

At this point i have no idea what to exprct from Vietnam

My comms havent worked since last night. Im not even trying to get on at this point.

[finite berry]

Vietnam will be a success (unfortunately), pretty sure a about it

[umbral osprey]

Agreed

[mellow knoll]

I uninstalled yesterday lmao

I ain’t playing till they fix it

[turbid plaza]

You have no idea what ita gunna be when it releases. Im not saying it wont profit but i wont expect a working game

[worthy charm]

Dont jinx it before the gave even got a second trailer

[mellow knoll]

Personally I never cared about Vietnam as a setting so idc

[worthy charm]

or they showed any gameplay...

[finite berry]

I don't trust trailers

[harsh egret]

Only because a million cucks will still line up to buy and preorder it. lol. I'll be playing something else.

[patent iris]

Right? Fix the hit registration, fix the lagging, fix the LOD, not shiny new death cameras literally no one asked for

[finite berry]

Eh, different engine, more dev power, built from ground up by T17

[turbid plaza]

Yah i run one of the few heavily historical based milsims in HLL. And we are German. Im all avout WWII.

I wish this game had a bigger milsim community.

I cant stand the comp gameplay.

[finite berry]

Just look at how many people are still buying DLCs for this game and you'll get an idea of how many will buy HLLV (+ DLCs)

[harsh egret]

Oh I know

[turbid plaza]

Only thing i ever bought was the 2PzD uniforms cuz well they are 2PzD

[mellow knoll]

lol you and me both. I tried comp a few months back and it ain’t for me.

[harsh egret]

I've said it before this is the only industry where you can stay in business by releasing failed products to your customers over and over.

[mellow knoll]

I got everything aside from the Russian paratroopers, because it looks hot dog water.

[turbid plaza]

Modern game companies plan is to release unfinsihed and polish over months of updates.

And that is R word

[mellow knoll]

Oh and the latest dlc

Not giving them money for doing something wrong

[turbid plaza]

As much as i hate Rockstar atleast they finish their ganes

Might take half of our natural lives

[patent iris]

As someone above said, most modern players seem to want CODesque run and gun shooter garbage not squad oriented tactical teamwork games. Changes made to cater to that audience turn off the veteran players and lower the overall experience for everyone

[mellow knoll]

Even if it takes 10 delays to do it yeah

[turbid plaza]

Bingo

[harsh egret]

"We can't fix the stutters or crashing due to spaghetti code."

At my job, if someone blames the last guy for why he can't fix it or do his job right, he gets fired and replaced by someone who can and will get it done.

If the gaming industry/T17 model was applied elsewhere, when you bought a house, the builder would be like, "Sorry, the last plumber hacked the job up, so your bathroom only gets a sht bucket and a window. Anyway, nice dynamic weather today, aint it?"

Imagine a world where people think that is acceptable.

[turbid plaza]

2 years ive given to building, promoting and maintaining a unit and the game and T17 just turns me away from wanting to continue after every update.

[mellow knoll]

Which one is this btw? I didn’t know this was a thing

[turbid plaza]

The mortain update. Luttich

[mellow knoll]

Oh you meant the 2nd Ss Panzer Division my bad

Thought you were referring to the Heer 2nd panzer division

[turbid plaza]

It had 2PzD and 47 Panzerkorps which was another alliance of german units i ran for a bit.

I made both units like 2 months before the uniforms dropped.

It was perfect timing.

No 2nd Panzer Division is what i mean

We arent SS

[harsh egret]

No SS

[mellow knoll]

I’m baffled

The one introduced in the Mortain dlc was an SS smock

Am I confused to what we’re talking about

[turbid plaza]

The tank uniforms

[mellow knoll]

I need to refresh my memory lol one moment

[harsh egret]

Are you thinking of the Oak Leaf smock? We are talking about the 2nd panzergrenadiers uniform from the Luttich DLC

[proper sandal]

Here's a new version of my SPA calculator that is mobile friendly!
https://spa-calculator-mobile.pagedrop.io

[harsh egret]

The Oak Leaf was usually an SS issued smock

[patent iris]

2. Panzer Division and 2nd SS Panzer Division “Das Reich”are 2 very different entities

[mellow knoll]

Oh you mean the panzer summer outfit?

[turbid plaza]

The 2nd panzergrenadier uniforms were the ones dropped which there was never a 2nd panzergrenadier division so tbh idk what the reference is to. I assumed they meant the regiment.

2nd SS was at Mortain too so maybe but idt HLL affiliates their stuff with the SS even though somr of the camo is there

[worthy charm]

Maybe make a post in #1273828697941606450, so people find them better. Links are impossible to find in here after like 12h.

[turbid plaza]

But most camos were developed for the SS so either have em or dont i guess

[mellow knoll]

Yeah the only infantry uniform for Germany that was introduced in that dlc was the SS Oak Leaf smock

[proper sandal]

Sure I can post there, I wasn't aware of that channel

[harsh egret]

That isn't correct. The Operation Luttich package and the Oak Leaf uniform are totally separate.

[mellow knoll]

Trust me I know, I have crap tonnes of presets for each german sub faction

[patent iris]

Oak DLC was its own separate thing, Plane Tree smock came with Luttich DLC

[mellow knoll]

nooo not that

Hold on

[harsh egret]

Idk either way we aren't larps or wehraboos for ze Germans. Just ww2 period fans. Hell, both my grandfathers fought to liberate Europe. But we are definitely not anything SS.

[mellow knoll]

The Rauchtarnmuster

[turbid plaza]

Guys were getting off tipic here.

BOO T17!

[mellow knoll]

That’s the one I’m referring to

[turbid plaza]

BOO THIS MAN

[mellow knoll]

Never said your clan was tho

I was only asking because of the mention of a 2nd panzer division uniform xD

[harsh egret]

I know. Just stating it for the dear readers who like to go there any chance they get.

[mellow knoll]

Real.

[turbid plaza]

The only actual 2pzd uniform in the dlc is the armor uniform

[mellow knoll]

So yes the summer shirt

[turbid plaza]

The inf uni is related to the 2nd panzergrenadiers but as i said idk what unit it is referenced to

[mellow knoll]

Got it

[turbid plaza]

There wasnt a 2nd panzergrenadier division

Only regiment

[harsh egret]

I just chalked it up as a love letter to our group specifically

[turbid plaza]

They were apart of 2pzd

[mellow knoll]

Anyways yes to get back on track hopefully t17 fixes the fake SPAs and I can play again without my immersion being ruined.

[turbid plaza]

Ive been seeing alot of hilarious looking shells coming out of those things

[ancient harness]

0 symbology, but there are SS uniforms in the game indeed

[turbid plaza]

Turning sideways mid air. Doing 180s and coming backwatds

Wtf is going on

[mellow knoll]

Lmao

[dim snow]

Definitely need the blurred edge smock in the game

[ancient harness]

Apart from the belt buckles which I don't know if they count as symbology

[harsh egret]

At this point lets just make HLL an alternate history game. Release a V-2 rocket with an atomic bomb payload and just blow up the whole game.

[turbid plaza]

I think its just a byproduct of needing to have camo in the game and the fact nost camo was developed by an SS Major for the SS

[mellow knoll]

It is already no?

One of them is at least

[dim snow]

Nope just the oak leaf and plane tree

[nova pivot]

Yeah camo looks cool

[ancient harness]

It could be. Because the level 5-6 camo for Heer uniforms doesn't really work that well on most maps

[patent iris]

And m31 splinter

[mellow knoll]

But I thought the one introduced in the Mortain dlc was Rauchtarnmuster?

[nova pivot]

I wouldn't be mad if they added SS symbolism it's a history game

[turbid plaza]

Also not totally accuarte on the symbols.

The tankers do have the totenkopfs but those were also worn by heer tankers

[harsh egret]

There are tank camos with the totenkopf on them and even lighning bolts aren't there? lol

[turbid plaza]

I was almost made into an outcast cuz i intially made an SS unit cuz i didnt see the big deal either. If your about history whats the problem?

[mellow knoll]

I would have personally preferred them to just use two angled lines instead of blank black collar tabs

[ancient harness]

They could add at least the rank symbols

[mellow knoll]

Basically what I showed in my German cosmetic mega thread

[finite berry]

"nooo that will attract the 'wrong people' nooo but we can have hammer and sickle, that doesn't attract the 'wrong people' nooooo"

[harsh egret]

Wait till you tell people the Hindu symbol for peace predates the Reich by like, thousands of years.

[nova pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/impress-based-american-psycho-very-based-impressive-very-based-gif-21665669

[mellow knoll]

Commies won the war so we are forced to ignore their worse atrocities

[finite berry]

It's the other way around, tho

[hazy owl]

❤️ 😄

[turbid plaza]

T17 i implore you.

Return to history.

I want to 100% feel like im running through the streets of Smolensk.

I want to be in the skin of a soldier.

Like Ed Gein.

[patent iris]

Not all of us ignore them…

[turbid plaza]

Should have extended the war to take them out too

[harsh egret]

It isn't though. That symbol existed long before the Austrian painter was even a twinkle in his dad's eye. It is just the reality.

[mellow knoll]

I know. I definitely don’t. I’ve been very vocal that I despise the communists lol

[finite berry]

Yes, but I mean the Nazi swastika is the other way around

[mellow knoll]

It’s only angled

[finite berry]

It's not identical to the hindu one

[mellow knoll]

And yes it’s mirrored I believe

[turbid plaza]

Well lets just say new information has come to light and history isnt what youre always told.

[finite berry]

https://tenor.com/view/impress-based-american-psycho-very-based-impressive-very-based-gif-21665669

[past vortex]

is elise postulating his utopic views again? (or otherwise pretending to)

[mellow knoll]

Mhm.

[harsh egret]

I don't think so. They just turned it diagonally if anything.

[mellow knoll]

Everyone in WW2 was as bad as each other lmao, just Germany lost so they got all the blame.

[turbid plaza]

Symbols. Words. Whats it matter?

If you dont let them hurt you, they wont.

You control your own emotions.

[mellow knoll]

Tell that to modern society

[turbid plaza]

The illusion of free speech

[finite berry]

No. Invitation to DM still stands. Don't want to take it? Okay, but why are you commenting on my takes in the first place

[mellow knoll]

If only people had back bones like they did in the past.

[turbid plaza]

Oh i know. Softer than baby poop.

[ancient harness]

We don't need the swastika, they've done a great job censuring that one. Almost unnoticeable. But I don't think it's that much of a deal to add the SS runes, of their rank symbols. We already have their specific belt buckles in the game so it's pretty obvious that it's an SS uniform

[turbid plaza]

Strong men create good times.

Good times create weak men.

Weak men create hard times.

Guess where we are in the cycle?

[past vortex]

thats very much proven wrong
it only works when you are in a position of strenght

[finite berry]

Eh, some countries were without a doubt worse than others, it's just hypocritical to act as if the Soviets were the "good guys" or something like that

[harsh egret]

Still waiting for the hammer and sickle to be banned as a hate symbol. They murdered 40-70 million Christians in Europe during their time. Where is my memorial or forever victim card for that?

[past vortex]

words do make minds very much for the majority

and i dont even believe you believe that yourself

[turbid plaza]

Soviet body count nearly tripled the Germans

[past vortex]

because you are very much selective with it

[turbid plaza]

And thats just 39-45

[finite berry]

Exactly my point. If you are censoring Nazi symbols, censor communist ones too. Or do the sensible thing and censor nothing because it's history.

[harsh egret]

Yeah the double standards are whack

[keen glen]

[mellow knoll]

Yes the way they censored it was fine, Ss not so much. Even angled lines would be better than nothing at all.

[turbid plaza]

They want you to "learn" from history though.

The manufactured one.

[keen glen]

👈👶

[past vortex]

you dont want to censor that tho
you want to freely use hate symbols

[harsh egret]

Don't do it toatl

It's gonna be ok

[mellow knoll]

I’m of the mind of leaving everything uncensored for pure historical reasons but since people are babies that isn’t possible sadly.

[nova pivot]

😭

[keen glen]

🥀

[past vortex]

it is totally allowed for historical use

what are you talking about

[mellow knoll]

It’s allowed yes but game studios are too scared to try.

[past vortex]

games are not history

[turbid plaza]

What?

[past vortex]

is that news to you :D

[mellow knoll]

It’s based on a historical period? Wdym??

[finite berry]

Exactly

[mellow knoll]

Is it modern day? No

[turbid plaza]

Games based on history that have their whole model as accuracy yes thats history

Thats representing history

[past vortex]

its playing with history

[harsh egret]

I learned my history from Assassins Creed tbh. That's why I know the Illuminati run everything.

[turbid plaza]

Hell Let Looses whole model waa historical accuracy

Aka being true to history

Not playing with it or altering it

[mellow knoll]

In my honest opinion a great example of how to do it is from Red Alert 2. They have an option in the menu to disable sensitive symbols.

[past vortex]

no need to roleplay warcrimes tho

check yourself

[turbid plaza]

Are war crimes in the gameM

[mellow knoll]

Lmao

[turbid plaza]

What are you talking about

[mellow knoll]

Technically yes because you can shoot a medic

[turbid plaza]

Were talking about symbolism

[finite berry]

As if that requires symbols lol

[past vortex]

yea and you want to use the worst possible stuff

thats not about history

[finite berry]

It is.

[mellow knoll]

🤦‍♂️

[turbid plaza]

Lol. Exhibit A.

[harsh egret]

Aren't flamethrowers now considered a warcrime? Because I do like roasting people with the flamethrower.

[turbid plaza]

Thats exactly what history is

[past vortex]

naw dude, its the guy with the iron cross wanting to upgrade

[turbid plaza]

Its not there for you to like