slurp up fires

[elfin loom]

so the heat exchanger takes heat from other structures and put it into the heat grid

however, theres no such thing as an truly cold fire, so if the heat from the fire woukd be taken out, logically, it would put out the fire

but because fires in themselves are already really, really hot, it wouldnt be unbalanced since it would generate a ton of heat by taking it from a fire

[pearl tangle]

I don't get it

you don't put out fires with coolant

you put it out with an extinguisher

all an airconditioner can really do for a burning room is make it less hot

[runic bolt]

fire do burn in snowy places just fine

unless its windy of course

[pearl tangle]

the wind is kinda like the extinguisher

fire doesn't go out just cause the coolant absorbed it's heat

fire burns because it's eating on something combustible

i.e. whatever's on the interior pannels of your ships

[tame elbow]

eh, the fire triangle is definitely a thing and well established in real world physics. The three things in which a fire cannot possibly exist without are: an oxidizer, a fuel, and heat. Remove any of these sufficiently, and a fire simply ceases to exist. However, the removal of heat is not to be taken as something simple, as you would need to remove the heat quickly enough from both the fuel and the flamefront for the fuel to no longer autoignite. This is not a simple matter.

[polar wedge]

you can put out fires with coolant irl btw, since fire uses it's own heat to sustain itself. Take that away, no fire.

Heck that's what water does on top of depriving the fire of air, water takes away heat from the fire by boiling away

[pearl tangle]

Depending on the water or fire

you're more likely to burn it harder

if the temperature is high enough, water Will burn

boiling temperature and stuff

cause water has both Oxidizer and Combustor, Oxygen and Hydrogen

You get those 2, bigger fire

that's why you use oil to cool smelted metal

[woven gorge]

I don't think that's how it would work, though; you can't get net energy from dissociating then recombining water.

[woven gorge]

I'm also pretty sure people use water to cool smelted metal.

[pearl tangle]

heheh

oh boy has this guy not heard of water combustion

water quenching is really dangerous, at temperatures where even new quenching oil straight up burns, water is already seperated molecularly

[runic bolt]

water may be used in some circumstances but the not extreme ones

[woven gorge]

Water can be used at high temperatures, but the danger is not that it will dissociate and then combust. The danger is that it will explosively evaporate! Water is not separated molecularly at those heat levels. Even if it was to be, that would mean it's already thermodynamically favorable for the water to be separated into hydrogen and oxygen. It won't be able to burn because, if it were favorable for it to, it wouldn't have separated in the first place!

I know enough physics to say this: water cannot thermodynamically favorably combust due to heat.

For some numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_splitting#Thermal_decomposition_of_water

At 2,200 degrees Celsius, according to the numbers listed, three percent of the water is partially dissociated.

Now, low-carbon steel melts, according to this site, at about 1460 degrees Celsius.
https://www.engineersedge.com/materials/metal_melting_temperatures_13214.htm
That's definitely not hot enough.

Now, there are metals with higher melting points. Let's look at that.

Tungsten, according to that site, melts at a cool 3000 Celsius. That's well into the danger zone. Wikipedia, conveniently, gives that temperature as when "more than half" of the water molecules are dissociated. So, tungsten could get you off-gassing of hydrogen-oxygen.

I could see that as being a danger, but not precisely where it's smelted. Once again, the water wouldn't burn at the heat source; the dangers would be a buildup of explosive fumes.

Once again, you can't get net positive energy by burning water; breaking it apart will always, always consume at least as much energy as putting it back together will.

From what I understand, according to a few quick Google searches, the reason to use oil instead of water for quenching extremely hot metal isn't because the water will somehow magically catch on fire. It's because oil will provide more gradual cooling, reducing thermal shock (and the risk of explosive evaporation). This can lead to a less brittle final product.

No Fire Hazard: Unlike oil, water does not pose a fire risk, making it safer to use in various environments.
https://shop.machinemfg.com/water-quenching-vs-oil-quenching-whats-the-difference/
Additionally, opting for water helps mitigate fire hazards, presenting a safer alternative in environments where the risk of ignition is a concern.
https://www.soulceramics.com/pages/oil-quenching-vs-water-quenching
Water quenching is generally with 100% water, but brine (water and salt) is also a common quench technique. Both are much easier to control and less dangerous when compared to oil.
https://fusion-chemical.com/the-definitive-guide-quenching-in-oil-vs-water/

For information on why water does not burn, https://www.scienceabc.com/pure-sciences/why-doesnt-water-burn-despite-being-made-of-combustible-substances-hydrogen-and-oxygen.html.

In other words, while water is made of an oxidizer and a fuel, it can't contribute positively to a fire; it's already burnt, and anything that changes that will take up enough energy to offset the gain in heat.

Now, you might be able to make a fire larger using electrolysis of water; it works at lower temperatures and isn't using the heat from the fire. But, in that case, you're pumping energy into the system in the form of electricity!

There are also, of course, materials that will "steal" atoms from water; sodium and fluorine come to mind*. However, they are outliers. Water isn't separating and recombining back into water in those cases; it's recombining with the sodium/fluorine/whatever to form molecules with a higher binding energy, which tend to be more stable.

*There's a whole list here, for future reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water-reactive_substances

Now that I've wasted a good half hour looking up metal quenching, I'll return to what I was doing and await a response.

[woven gorge]

What are your thoughts on this?

[runic bolt]

I'm not that interested, hence why I had left this chat

[woven gorge]

Ah, sorry.

I can't tell whether you're subscribed to the chat or not.

[pearl tangle]

I'm not this flavor of autism

just gonna say this really fucking went far off topic to what the thread topic is

far fetched man

[woven gorge]

In what way is "water not burning" far-fetched?

[pearl tangle]

go fuck yourself jesus chrsit

the topic was about using heat exchangers to apparently take out fire

[elfin loom]

how the hell did a silly idea of drinking fire turn into a scientific discussion about how water reacts to high temperatures

[dry crown]

?r14

[wild lichen]

Rule 14. Curse words are currently allowed as long as they aren't directed at any members. (This rule may change in the future.)

[dry crown]

Chill out dude

[tame elbow]

many elements in the alkali metal group pull apart water molecules, fusing with the oxygen, and causing the hydrogen to react with atmospheric oxygen again, and since these are new bonds with their own net energy now being made, the system as a whole increases in total energy.

[tame elbow]

they'll never do that with anything in the alkali metal group, very big no-no

[woven gorge]

Well, that is true.